Finding Mastery with Dr. Michael Gervais - How to Change When Everything Changes | Chris Waddell on Resilience

Episode Date: August 3, 2022

This week’s conversation is with Chris Waddell, a Paralympian who is widely known as the most decorated mono-skier in U.S. history.Chris began ski racing at the age of six, and went on to ski competitively at Middlebury College - where an accident during a freshman year training session left him paralyzed from the waist down.What happens for most of us when we go through a life-altering event, is that it reveals our internal operating system - one’s world-view, personal philosophy, and psychological skills. While Chris couldn’t use his body the same way – it revealed who he is.Within a year, Chris was back on the mountain as a mono-skier and soon became the fastest in the world. He has gone on to compete in seven Paralympic games, earning 13 medals in alpine skiing and track & field, cementing his place as one of Team USA’s most successful two-sport athletes, and a Paralympic Hall of Famer.As if that wasn’t enough, in 2009 Chris also became the first “nearly unassisted” paraplegic to summit the 19,340-foot Mt Kilimanjaro.Chris is epic for so many reasons – he is an embodiment of resilience, purpose, passion, and having command of his mind.After the conversation, there was nowhere for me to turn other than to re-examine how I’m living my life – am I really pouring into being the person I believe I’m capable of being?I hope he does the same for you._________________Subscribe to our Youtube Channel for more powerful conversations at the intersection of high performance, leadership, and meaning: https://www.youtube.com/c/FindingMasteryGet exclusive discounts and support our amazing sponsors! Go to: https://findingmastery.com/sponsors/Subscribe to the Finding Mastery newsletter for weekly high performance insights: https://www.findingmastery.com/newsletter Download Dr. Mike's Morning Mindset Routine! https://www.findingmastery.com/morningmindsetFollow us on Instagram, LinkedIn, and X.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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we continue to, we continue to change. We continue to evolve. And sometimes that is really painful. It's also often the thing that we look back on our lives and go, that's the thing that made the most sense. That was the greatest moment of my life. All right, welcome back or welcome to the Finding Mastery Podcast. I'm Dr. Michael Gervais by Trade and Training, a sport and performance psychologist. And the whole idea behind this podcast, behind these conversations is to learn from people who are challenging the edges and the reaches of the human experience in business, in sport, in science, in life. We pull back the curtain to explore how they have committed to mastering both their craft and their minds in an effort to express their potential. Finding

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Stuart, he loves them so much. I just want to kind of quickly put them on the spot. Stuart, I know you're listening. I think you might be the reason that we're running out of these bars so quickly. They're incredible, Mike. I love them. One a day, one a day. What do you mean one a day? There's way more than that happening here. Don't tell. Okay. All right. Look, they're incredibly simple. They're effective. 28 grams of protein, just 150 calories and zero grams of sugar. It's rare to find something that fits so conveniently into a performance-based lifestyle and actually tastes good. Dr. Peter Attia, someone who's been on the show, it's a great episode by the way,

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decorated mono skier in the United States history. So Chris began ski racing at the age of six. He skied competitively all the way through college, where during his freshman year in a training session, he was left paralyzed from the waist down. Now, what happens for most of us when we go through a life-altering event is that it reveals our internal operating system, one's worldview, personal philosophy, psychological skills. The external event literally illuminates our internal world. So while Chris couldn't use his body in the same way, it revealed who he was, what he

was made of. We are so much more than our physical body. And that's what this conversation is about. Within a year, Chris was back on the mountain as a mono skier and soon became the fastest in the world. He's gone on to compete in seven Paralympic games, earning 13 medals in alpine skiing and track and field, cementing his place for the USA as one of the most successful two-sport athletes as a Paralympic Hall of Famer. How about it? In 2009, Chris also became the first nearly unassisted paraplegic to summit the 19,340-foot Mount Kilimanjaro. Chris is epic for so many reasons.

He is the embodiment of resilience and purpose and passion and having a command of his mind, a clear vision and understanding how to make that vision come to life. He is a testament to working from the inside out. And then more subtly after the conversation, there was nowhere for me to turn other than to re-examine how I'm living my life. Am I really pouring into the person I believe I'm capable of being? I hope he does the same for you. And with that, let's jump right into this week's conversation with Paralympic legend, Chris Waddell. Chris, how are you? I am great.

I hear it in your voice. I expected that almost of you though. So what does it mean to be great, to feel great? You know, I'm, I'm excited. I mean, I think that, that so much of being great is, is, is, is just really having dreams, you know? I mean, like having the possibility to keep moving forward and, and see when things come, come together, you know, meeting new people, new opportunities that that's me is what's great, getting focused on stuff. Okay, Chris, you're a disruptor in the world of human potential and human performance. Not because of what has happened in your life, but how you've responded. And I want to open up one of the most dynamic moments in your life and understand it better if you're okay to go there.

Yeah, please. Let's do it. Okay, so December 20, 1988. And the experience that happened on that hill, I don't even have the right words for it. But you're a freshman in college and you're in Massachusetts and you and a fellow competitor were on the mountain testing out some different skis. So what happens, what happened that day? Yeah. I mean, I think it's a, none of these, it's one day, right. But at the same time,

there's a continuation from like what happened in the past to what might happen in the future. And it's interesting. I went to college as a ski racer. I wanted to ski race in college. I wanted to ski race Division I. That for me was where I was going to prove myself. And by saying that I was going to prove myself, it was like I was going to prove myself to myself. Like college is the end of our education in some ways or the view of ending our

education. But it was also the end of like my childhood. Like I wanted to prove that when I left the house, I could be successful. And skiing, I thought in a lot of ways is where I wanted to prove that. So I wanted to put myself, this is the, this is the interesting thing in is bringing all of your ability and all of your focus to the start of a ski race. It sounds like it should be relatively easy, but it's, there's just, there are just so many distractions. And so in the preparation for the season, I was going through dry land training and I felt like my goal was to push myself to the point that I wanted to quit. And I wanted to do that every day push myself to the point that I wanted to quit. And I wanted to do that every day, because if I went just a little bit further, then I felt like,

I felt like I, you know, like, I could be creating a new narrative. And so, so the day of December 20th of 88, it was my first day of Christmas vacation, I'd come home that night, you know, finished exams the day before, I think I had two exams the day before. And my brother and I went up to the place where we'd run up skiing, a place called Berkshire East and Massachusetts. Oftentimes winter doesn't come. It's not like the Bing Crosby kind of winter sometimes. And it was just, the mountain was almost all Brown. There was just one strip of snow, one trail that was open, but luckily the guy who managed the mountain, his kids ski raced with us. So we were going to get the train that day, even though there was very little space that was open. And I was just searching for that feeling, searching for that feeling of being in concert with my equipment, with my technique, with my fitness, all of that stuff.

And my ski popped off in the middle of a turn, just really strange. And I don't remember anything after my ski popping off. I was conscious, but I think I was in shock. So I don't remember any of it, but sort of going back and talking to my brother, talking to some of my friends, it sounded like I really just fell in the middle of the trail and sort of slid to the side of the trail. I guess I told them I didn't think I hit a tree or anything like that. And so it's kind of interesting in that it's probably one of the most important times of my life. But at the same time, it's a bit of a black hole as far as my memory is concerned.

It's interesting that when I asked the question, like what happened that day, you first went to your philosophy of life leading up to that moment. And you're talking about, I wanted to prove myself. And then you added to myself. So that qualifier, I think is going to be materially important as we march on in the conversation. But it's noted that you went to what led to that moment from a philosophical position first. And then the context, if I'm tracking correctly, you added, I wanted to push limits to the place that I wanted to stop. Okay. So I'm going to put those two together in a minute. And then the third is I wanted to be in concert. And you talked about concert with yourself, your fitness, your equipment and your craft, basically. And then you fell.

Sounds benign. Your boot pushed out. You slid. Yeah. I mean, it is benign. I mean, that's the interesting thing in that I probably took a lot of falls in my life that were worse than this fall. And so it's interesting that you say benign just because, yeah, seemingly benign. You fall over.

I was going 20 to 30 miles an hour. I wasn't going super fast. But at the same time, I was going fast enough that something could happen. And, and yeah, that's that, that's that moment in time. And I don't know, but it's interesting. I don't know that we can plan sometimes for that moment in time. Okay. All right. So how many turns from the start? Cause you, you pick the start as an important moment. So how many turns from the start do you remember that you took? This is interesting. So, so I was actually free skiing. I was not in a course at the time.

Okay. So it was just warming up. So I would have to imagine, I mean, I'm just going back and kind of looking at the mountain in my mind's eye or that trail. And it was probably four or five, then maybe like, maybe like two more, like six, seven turns or something. Okay. So you're still getting warm. And well, two things. One is when you go back into your mind's eye, are you watching from like almost a helicopter perspective or from a lift line perspective, or are you looking at the pitch through your own goggles? I think it was more of a, more of a helicopter.

More of a helicopter. Yeah. Okay. And then if you were to just help me understand what was the, what was the slope grade? You know, was it steep? Was it moderate? Oh, it's, it's basically like an intermediate type trail okay so should be no big deal you're just using this to get warm

yeah i mean well one it was the only one that was open right oh that's right yeah yeah we were warming up getting ready to train and actually the coach said to take two runs and then meet him at the timing shack and we went down and he wasn't there and so we took one more run so this was actually the third run so that's the uh there might be something there right you know it's funny you say that um in surfing kind of one of the things is like we made a promise in high school like my my group of surf friends were like we'll never say it to each other like hey let me just get one more and cause it felt like there was this weird synergy between saying, Hey, let me just get one more. Cause you're tired. You're out there. It's just one more. You're getting a little greedy,

you know, with wanting to get one more wave in. It feels like things go sideways, you know, for us. So we made this interesting little pack amongst us in high school. Like we're not gonna say that to each other, you know? So like, is that kind of how you're framing the one more run? It's yes. And, and, and I think in some ways this is, I mean, you're talking about nature to a certain extent, but then it's also, it gets to be a part of when something this profound happens to you, right? You try to think of like, it's almost like a karmic thing. It's almost like a, you know, it's something that's bigger than me and something that I can't quite understand how I could go from being, you know, as able as I ever was to suddenly not being able to walk and, and, and, and whether there's some reason for that,

you know, and, and, and I've let go of, you know, trying to figure out necessarily what that is. But at the same time, yeah, there's a part of that that is just like, okay, you know, was it the third run? Was it exactly what you're talking about? Like, just one more. Let's just get one more. It's innocuous. It's benign. And apparently not.

Yeah. Okay. So let's zoom back in. Let's say it's, let's go to like turn four. So you've had two runs in, you're on lap three, you're three turns from the top, you're leaning into turn four. Do you remember anything about that turn? Turn four would probably be right around. Okay. So you're leaning into turn four. Do you remember anything about that, that turn? Turn four would probably be right around. Okay. So you're, you're good. This is a,

there's actually something here. This is a, so, so one of the guys who had been kind of my rival as I was growing up, he was at a, at a different college and, but we were all back there and he was, he was fiddling with something and he was the guy who was always he was and he was, he was fiddling with something. And he was the guy who was always he was, he was, he was the hardest worker, the straightest arrow, that kind of guy. And, and I think I made a turn probably around turn four that just kind of, he was fiddling with something and I kind of gave him a little bit of a hard time and made a turn sort of close to him so that his head sort of snapped up, you know, kind of, kind of giving him a little bit of a hard time and made a turn sort of close to him so that his head sort of snapped up you know kind of kind of giving him a little bit of a hard time i mean not putting him in jeopardy or anything

in danger but uh but yeah that was probably about the about the fourth turn i would imagine yeah go to corner five so then it was really i think it was that turn by him and then five would be there was a little bit of a knoll. And so it just sort of dropped out and then turned back to the other way. And five is effectively when I dropped out of sight of anybody else. So nobody saw me crash. I don't remember it and nobody saw it happen. And then what is your first memory?

The memory was really, it's almost like a series of snapshots. The first memory was actually in the hospital. So ski patrol skied me down, ambulance took me to the hospital. And it was a Franklin County Medical Hospital. And my father, who was a teacher, came up from school. Somebody at the mountain had alerted him that there'd been a problem. He went up to the hospital. And so my first memory is my father looking down on me.

And my father, he wears glasses. He has a mustache. And so in my view, it was almost, you know, it was almost, it was almost like a caricature kind of, kind of thing, but it also with the mustache, it makes it easy to look like a frown. And so, so what I took out of that photo was that I was really, that, that I was in trouble. And then, and then that was the end of it. And then next memory, the next memory. So they ended up having to fly me via helicopter to the next hospital, the Hartford hospital. And, and so they wheeled me out and the next memory was effectively just that I was cold, that I was just, I was lying there on the, I mean, sometimes it seems

like, I don't know how much time you've spent in a hospital, but sometimes it seems like you can be almost, you feel like you're abandoned in some, and I was like, we're going to park you here. And, and I was sort of parked and waiting for the helicopter in the hallway. And I know, I think I was on like a tarmac or something i think oh yeah no i haven't had that experience i've sat in a gurney in the hallway like okay what are we doing but not not on the tarmac okay and then does your memory kick in from that point forward no no it's still it's still sort of snapshots the the next one is going into like either a CT scan or an MRI or something where, you know, the wall of the thing is like an inch and a half from your nose and it's claustrophobic. And the nurse telling me, don't fall asleep in here. And I fell asleep in there and then I got in trouble for falling asleep in there. And then I got in trouble for, for falling asleep in there. And then I finally made it back to my hospital room. And obviously, the doctor had told my parents, and I think my brother and father were there. And then they ended up leaving and going home. And my mother stayed in the, in the chair next to my bed. And what happens when you, when you go into shock is that your, your system shuts

down. Right. So, so like, I'm not processing whatever's going on in my stomach or whatever. So they put, uh, was it called an IG tube? I think it's called an IG tube, uh, like up my nose, down my stomach, down my throat, into my stomach to drain the stomach. And, uh, and my mother, I can only imagine, you know, I mean, this is the worst day of her life and this is where she's selling. I would so much rather be in his situation. Like I've prayed places with him in a moment here. And I said, I'm taking this thing out because it, it made me feel old and it made me feel sick. And so I just pulled the, the IG tube out and then proceeded to vomit all night long because that tube was there for a reason to keep me from vomiting. And, but I didn't like it. It had like a little piece of tape on the

nose that was, that was keeping, keeping it in place. So, so those are, those are my memories to get to the, to get to the end of the first day. When do you remember, or do you remember what it was like when you got your diagnosis and can you just inform everybody what that diagnosis was? Yeah. So that's, that's a really interesting question. So what happened was I was doing all the tests. My parents and my brother were in this, what they describe as this, this small, dark, dank waiting room room and it was just the three of them and doctor finally came out and he said basically your son your brother's broken his back and he'll never walk again and the guy turned and left and and uh you know sort of no

bedside manner kind of thing and and so as a result of that message of like, you know, which you say, you'll never walk again, but you also hear like his life is over kind of thing. And so they they actually wanted to help me create my own narrative around what was going on. They didn't want to burden me with sort of this stigma and this belief of like your, your life is over. And so I don't remember anybody telling me they, they told me that one of the nurses actually told me and, but I don't remember that. So, so I really, I don't remember. I broke thoracic 10 and 11. So, so I broke two vertebrae in my back, damaged the spinal cord, paralyzed effectively from like the belly button down. But nobody gave me that afterschool special kind of moment of like, you've broken your back, your life is over. You'll never do this or that. And, and so I was really

lucky, I think in that way that that way that my parents gave me the opportunity to create my own narrative. Finding Mastery is brought to you by Momentus. When it comes to high performance, whether you're leading a team, raising a family, pushing physical limits, or simply trying to be better today than you were yesterday, what you put in your body matters. And that's why I trust Momentus. From the moment I sat down with Jeff Byers, their co-founder and CEO, I could tell this was not your average supplement company.

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to FelixGray.com and use the code FindingMastery20 at checkout. Again, that's Felix Gray. You spell it F-E-L-I-X-G-R-A-Y.com and use the code FindingMastery20 at FelixGray.com for 20% off. Help me understand how you and probably your family co-created that narrative? You know, I think part of it was a reaction. And obviously I'm trying to, you know, trying to fill in some of what they must have been thinking. But obviously I had known them my whole life, right?

And have known them my whole life. So I think that a big part of it was that they really just, just didn't want to, to put a label on somebody, you know, and, and part of that is that like, they, like my father's first job out of, out of school was, was teaching at a, at a, I guess it was a boarding school for what were called like disturbed kids at that point. And really now we might call them like people on the spectrum. So they were super, super bright kids, but this was, that wasn't the label back in the seventies. And I think that that approach for them was really, was really important, was being able to see the individual past whatever, whatever label society or, you know, uh, they, or whatever might put on themselves. And so, so I think that that

really was a part of it. And, and for me, having been an athlete, you know, there's, you can call it denial if you want. Uh, but there's a part of it of like, well, you don't, you know, there's, you can call it denial if you want. But there's a part of it of like, well, you don't, you don't know me. You don't know me. I, I am in the business of trying to create miracles, you know, kind of thing. And, and this is the biggest miracle that I have to try to create. And so, so I think that that for my side, that's really what it was is that, Hey, you don't know me. You don't know what I'm willing to do to be successful here. And for my parents, I think it was it was allowing the individual to thrive.

OK, that goes right back to the beginnings of how you started the story about you wanted to push limits, your limits. You wanted to go as hard as you possibly could go. And that's you now using, bridging these two concepts together, you saying like, no, you don't know me. I'm different. And I want to create miracles and magic. And I'm adding some color of my own in here. And I'm not going to just kind of fall to the box that you want to place me into, that

this is what statistical medical diagnoses and probabilities have to say. You're like, yeah, but you don't know me. I'm different. I'm not a statistic. It's exactly it. And the reason why I started with the idea of where it was, the philosophy of wanting to, you know, wanting to push myself to the point where I was uncomfortable, wanting to figure out who I was,

because it's so easy not to bump up against that, that, you know, that threshold or whatever it is. And, you know, suddenly I got, I got a much bigger challenge than I had anticipated. Okay. So is there a chip on your shoulder? Is there an anger to this? You know, like you don't know me or is it like they actually don't know me. This is kind of funny that they're going this way. Is it more like a private inside joke or is there a compassion to it? You know, like what is the tone of those words when you, when you're honest with yourself?

Yeah. When I'm honest with myself, it's no, it's, it's more of an essential, like, like an existential kind of, kind of thing in that, that, that this is who I am. And, and, and so I didn't have a chip, but at the same time, I didn't really have time for people who wanted to put that limit on me because, you know, because, because I didn't need it. You know, I didn't, I didn't need them to put any limit on me because that might, I might believe it. And, and I didn't want to, this was, this was about the existence of,

of who I was and who I wanted to be as a, as a person. And so, yeah, so it really was, there was no chip. It was just, I, I just have to come from, come from, from, from my place of greatest being in order to be successful. It's a two-parter. And this is the first part is meant to be succinct, is how do you finish this sentence?

I am. Wow. I am, I think I am a striver. You're still not going to be boxed in. So there's a couple of different ways that we think about identity, performance-based identity, purpose-driven identity, you know, and so you have not foreclosed the identity to just this, to I am a skier or I am a communicator of something. Like you've broadened that and deepened that across the purpose,

which is I am a striver. And then if we said striver of, you would say? Yeah. I mean, it really is a striver of personal experience and growth. How do we take that core philosophy with this other thing that I have read in preparation for this conversation that you said growing up, you just wanted to be part of the big kids, that your biggest fear at that time was being left behind and not being able to keep up.

And so I'm wondering how those two fold together. And then I've got a quick follow on right behind it. Oh, interesting. Okay. So, so that was really talking about the second part was when I was really six years old, you know, when I was starting, starting to ski race, my best friend and I were six years old and his, like his brother was 13 and all of the cool kids. And, and so, yeah, we just, we just wanted to keep up. We wanted to to be cool.

And and the idea of sort of reconciling those two things, the idea of being a striver is that. Yeah, I think I saw I got that example early on that it was it was the people who could who could do things. It was the people, because, because in my mind, like they were the best in the world. Right. And, and so that's what I, that's what I got a chance to see. It was like, wow, I want to be like them. And, and so that, that example is, is what I wanted to live up to. So that fear is about not being able to be included, like getting, being pushed on the outside. And as a six-year-old, like it's brilliant and not very sophisticated. It's like just looking there and being like, what do I need to do to be okay? Accepted, be part of that, the big kids.

And as an adult, when we look back, I'm wondering how much of that is still part of your DNA, your makeup and, and the quick follow on. That is still part of your DNA. Your makeup. And the quick follow on. So that's like a percentage maybe. And low to high. But then the following. The quick follow on that I wanted to ask you is. When you were working through.

Your diagnosis. And the reality that you are. No longer able to walk. I would love to know. What you wrestled with, like the fear and the worry and what occupied you from that fear framework. What percentage of you currently as an adult is still wrestling with fitting in, being accepted? Oh, wow.

That's a really interesting question. And it probably, I mean, I'd say, I don't know. I mean, percentages are hard, right? I'd probably say it's like a 25% percentage. I mean, I think maybe it might be bigger than that. I mean, there's probably an ebb and flow to this fitting in percentage. And who do you want to fit in now or be part of and be accepted by? Even if it's a smaller percentage, who is that group? That group more than anything is the group that I respect. The people who I look up to, the people who I say, wow, those are, those are some amazing people. Those are the people that I want to, that, that I want to, yeah, yeah. Those are, those are the people that I want to fit in with. It's not, you know, I don't, you know, I still get it occasionally, you know, like, like people on the street, random kind of things, you know, like get the staring, I get the whatever. And honestly, I don't care about that. That part doesn't bother me at all because they don't know

me, but the people who know me, those are the ones I want to fit in with. And are those people, your intimate loved ones, or those people, like when you say it's a BN c person that have done amazing things or have high moral standards or like maybe it's a crossover of both but if you had to pick a camp is it more the intimate ones that know me and i just want i want to be deeply connected or is it more like were you thinking about the extraordinaries in your community that you're like yeah i just like those big kids are still cool in my life. It's probably the latter really, because the people who really know me, the

intimate people are the people who actually, you know, who actually do know me. I mean, I felt this coming onto your podcast, Mike. I mean, it's like, you know, I want to fit in with you, you know, and it's like those kinds of people, the people that I respect who are doing, who are doing great things are, are the ones, yeah, I want to be, I want to be in their camp. One, I'll take that as a compliment, but also not accept any of it because it's really, I recognize that in me too. You know, like I don't want to say that even out loud, but there's a part of me that craves being accepted and being included. And I want to say I'm an independent man and, you know, all, but there's a part of me that yearns for those relationships and that acceptance. So let's go back to your philosophy here. Is that, or you knew that you're not walking now and you got a diagnosis that you might not ever walk. But at that time, what did you wrestle with?

Like what was the, what occupied your thinking? It was really, it was forward thinking. So it wasn't permanent in my mind. So I sat there, I mean i i couldn't train right i was i was lying in the hospital bed but i could do mental imagery so i was i was imagining myself skiing over and over as i'm lying in my hospital bed and i was thinking okay the first step is i get out of here and I go back to school and our race, the Middlebury carnival is the last race of the year. And I thought, okay, I can get back for that. And I won't be able to race in it, but I'll be able to, to forum. And so I'll be, I'll be a part of it. And so that's, you'll be able to do what? Four runs. So, so like people who aren't necessarily in the race, but they check out the course effectively. So it's like you're a racer, but it doesn't count. So you go and you run the course beforehand and they go, okay,

everything looks fine. Uh, this is it. It's safe and whatever. And, and so I thought, okay, this is, this is what I can do. And I can put that stamp on it and say, I'm back. And so in the hospital, that's really what I was imagining is that this is a temporary situation. I don't know how to answer this question. The doctors don't know how to answer this question, but I have to find something more within me to be able to answer that question. And, and that's, that was the, that was the most interesting part for me, just because I think as, as a kid growing up, I always felt like I had a greater power than I was ever able to access. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. What does that mean? So, I mean, so, and this might be fantasy on my part too.

So I drew this analogy at one point to it, it being like a, like, like my power was this essentially like a balloon filled with air. And, and that if you just squished it, it would come out. But instead it went through sort of like this labyrinth kind of thing and came out as something that was not necessarily the full volume of air. And so I'd always felt like I had more in me, but I hadn't been able to access it. Whereas when I was in the hospital, I was like, you have no choice. You've got to find a way to get into however you are, which really ultimately is, it is the vulnerability and the honesty that you were talking about, but it was also, I call it, it's funny. I call it like in

my mind, I call it realizing possible. And what realizing possible is, is winning that moment with myself, like the resisting the urge to panic, resisting the urge to rage, resisting, you know, that urge to just quit. And so it really was being able to say, yes, I know that that chemical thing that is arising within me, that chemical response that I've listened to throughout my life. But I have to win that battle with that. And that's where it's like this intermediate little battle. And it might not materialize itself in any great gains or anything. But mentally, it was winning the battle with myself, which is kind of why I call it realizing possible. It's kind of like the idea of like, we have kind of why I call it Realize Impossible. It's kind of like the idea of like, we have big goals, but we've got to win those like little battles before we can get to the big thing.

Are you, okay, are you working in a way more like karate or Aikido? Karate meaning that when you've got that thing coming up, almost like it feels like against you, like against the, the man that you want to be, you've got that rage or something. Are you trying to block it? Or are you that's karate? Or are you trying to use some Aikido slash maybe Judo where you notice it, you work with it and you, you use that energy, that movement for, for your ultimate repositioning of, of power. So that's like the two are very different. Yeah. And, and I, I, I didn't know the intricacies of karate and Aikido. So thank you for, for explaining that to me, but it's really, I think it's more Aikido kind of thing, which is,

I mean, it's the same kind of thing as like the starting gate, right? Where, where you get all of these emotions and you get this chemical response and it's like, can I, am I in direct conflict with it? Or can I shape this into something that is actually going to be beneficial to me? Can I, can I sort of ride this, you know, this, this chemical high or whatever, that's the competition kind of high to, to perform better than I might have anyway. And so really, I think it is more of that Akito of like taking it and saying, okay, this is what I'm going to do. It's reminding me, you know, this, this urge to quit this urge to panic, this urge to rage is reminding me of how important this is and, and taking it and turning

it in an opposite direction to say, yes, that, that is, it is important. But at the same time, my ability to maintain my sense of happiness. I mean, there wasn't much I could do, right. I'm lying there in bed. And, and all I could do was maintain a positive outlook. I could give my body, I could give my, my whole organism, you know, the, the opportunity, the best opportunity to heal. And so, so really, yeah, that's what this is. It's like taking it and using, using that energy, but also maintaining this, this optimistic outlook because, because I needed it. It was all I had. That was my only power.

You never got to get back on two skis the way that you were once highly proficient. Never did. on two skis the way that you were once highly proficient never did so how did you how'd you manage when maybe you're still working for it i don't know but like how did you manage when you you're like okay well i'm not going to be able to race that way again like what tell me about that acceptance that's an interesting one because there are two parts of it one i mean for for a long time for a period of time i felt like the only way when having talked to a lot of people who are a lot of my friends who are in similar in a similar situation you feel like the only way to recover is is to walk right i mean break your arm your arms in a cast, they take the cast off, your arm is fine. You know, this is, this is one of those where you never get to that point.

Again, you never take the cast off. So there was a part of me that thought, okay, I still need to figure it out. And I went back to school and back to Middlebury for the spring semester. And two months after being in the hospital for two months. Went to a secondary rehabilitation place called Shake a Leg, which was a holistic healing center. And the objective there, I went in thinking, okay, I'm wheeling in, but I'm walking out. And so that was my objective was I was going to get back there. But the other part of it, the year before my accident, I saw a woman named Diana Golden at a ski race. She was above the knee amputee and she showed up at this race, which had a lot of national team members, at least one person who won a World Cup afterwards. You know, and there was this one legged woman there. And she really, to me, the first part was I thought, you know, what's she doing there?

But the second part was she was really what i thought was a great athlete i mean in that she was like look i'm gonna fall down and i'm gonna get back up my wife hates this analogy but i like it so i'm gonna continue to use it uh she was like jason from friday the 13th she really was like you felt like you know that guy he's always chasing you you felt like you could kill him and and that was it and then you were safe but he kept coming back in each scene and that's the way that she seemed to be like she was like i'm gonna keep going you can't stop me which to me is is a great athlete but it's also like the idea of talent versus uh versus you know versus versus grit in some ways are two opposing things. And sometimes you think, oh, well, I'm talented. This is it. But really, talent with that grit with what she had is the best thing.

And so I saw her and she was the most memorable person at that race. And I wanted to be like her. And it was something bigger than ski racing. It was bigger than ski racing in the sense that it was really, it spoke to what it meant to be a successful human being. Was this sense of like, yeah, I'm going to keep going and I'm going to find a way to be successful. Finding Mastery is brought to you by Cozy Earth. Over the years, I've learned that recovery doesn't just happen when we sleep. It starts with how we transition and wind down.

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the way you prepare for it matters. If you're looking for high-quality personal care products that elevate your routine without complicating it, I'd love for you to check them out. Head to calderalab.com slash findingmastery and use the code findingmastery at checkout for 20% off your first order. That's calderalab, C-A-L-D-E-R-L-A-B.com slash finding mastery. We need, I needed, I needed to see somebody like me when I was a kid, even as an adult, like me to say, oh, look, that's possible for them. Huh? And when I say like me, enough identifying points that I feel like it's a close enough proximity for me to believe in that too. And so I think that there's something very powerful about that because you're offering

that to so many people. And people listening, I bet a lot of people listening go, oh, Chris sounds a lot like me. And then when they look at you, they would say, but Chris doesn't look like me. And you've got this radical insight about the invisible people. Can you share that? It's heartbreaking. Yeah. I mean, I think, and so, yeah, so there are what, 1.2 billion people in the world with physical disabilities, like 15% of the population.

But from the time we're little, we're taught not to stare at someone who looks different. It's impolite to stare. And the problem is if we never get a chance to ask questions, we never get a chance to get to know somebody who seemingly is different from us. We you know, they become invisible. And and and that's that was the easy way. I mean, in some ways it was it was easy to feel like like I was invisible, like I was part of a part of a group that had that had just disappeared out of politeness in some ways. How do we do better? You know, I think that one of the things we're not really taught in school, it's interesting having this conversation because you're asking me questions and then I'm telling you that we're not taught how to ask questions.

I really do. I mean, I think that a big part of it is we gravitate toward people who are like us, because then it's relatively easy. But how do we start a conversation? How do we find a way? How do I find a way to ask you something about what really matters to you? How do I get to a point where then you're interested in the conversation and I get to learn something about who you are. Yeah. I'm laughing at like kids have this right, you know, like the innocence, like if the adult doesn't corrupt the kid, you know, with like, don't look at his legs, you know, or whatever it might be. And the kid comes up and, hey, Chris, what happened to your legs? You'd be like, oh, let me tell you, you know, or whatever. I'm. And the kid comes up and, Hey, Chris, what happened to your legs?

You'd be like, Oh, let me tell you, you know, or whatever. I'm not trying to be callous, but I'm trying to be like so casual in it that it's, it's real, you know, like, so okay. So let's teach me. No, I mean, it really is the demystifying. And we are, so I can talk about this, right? And one day I was in, I was in the gym. I live in Park City, Utah. It was a Sunday. It was the middle of the winter. I was in the gym and one other, in like middle of the day, one other woman was there. And she was, she had, she had, she was a bilateral amputee, below the knee amputee, had like

carbon fiber legs. I happened at the time to be reading a book about a guy named Hugh Eyre who who lost his legs, I believe, on Mount Washington, got caught in a storm. He was he was a rock climber, mountain climber, got caught in a storm, got frostbite, gangrene, lost his legs. And so I see this woman walking around and I'm thinking, I wonder if she had frostbite. I wonder if she, you know, and the question that you're not supposed to really ask is like, what happened to you? You know, because the problem with what happened to you, I mean, sometimes it can work fine. And a lot of it is intonation and what you bring in terms of intention, but at the same time, it can feel like I just need to know what happened to you so that it won't happen to me. You know, tell me that it

won't happen to me. Tell me that you were doing something stupid. So I don't necessarily have to feel sorry for you. I mean, that's sometimes I'm projecting, but this is what it feels like oftentimes. Yeah. Right. And so I was thinking, oh, did she, did she get caught in the mountain? Can I, and I was like, okay, you can't ask that question. You can't ask that question. And so finally I'm just like, I'm, I'm doing like flies or something like that.

And she comes by. You're in a wheelchair. I'm in a wheelchair. So I was, so I'm in a wheelchair. And so, so I was, I get out of my chair. I was lying on a bench. I was doing flies or whatever. And she walks by and she goes, oh, that's a lot of weight. And I was like, oh really? Like, is that, is that how easy it is to start a conversation? Yeah. All you have to do is say to a man lifting weights, you look strong. We'll be your friend forever.

Okay. So let's say that you and I meet in person. We don't know each other. We don't have any history of who each other are. And I see, I see you in the gym and I want to know, I want to know your story. I don't, I don't want to sit and have an hour conversation, but I want to know, like, I don't even know what to say. I feel like I'm part of that conditioning and I'm really, I'm a very curious person. So like, I don't, I don't even know what to say. So can you, can you teach, like, I don't want to be impolite, but I'm curious, you know, were you always in a chair? Did something happen? Are you, are you okay? Answering, answering that question? Because some people really aren't, some people don't want to answer the question or whatever. I mean, I'm totally, I'm totally fine with it, but, but I think if you come to it with that human sense of, of like, hey, you know, I do happen to notice this. What happened? What was the issue? I think it can be as simple as that, but it's not, I need to know it for who I am.

I want to know it so we can keep, it's not a thing in our relationship or not a thing in our, you know, like. The pink elephant kind of thing. Right. Pink elephant. Right. Yeah. And I think it really, it's more about intention than anything else, you know, because it can feel really, it can feel condescending oftentimes. You know, and you're like, hey, just want to be up front and like, just don't, you don't have to ask this, but I'm just curious.

You know, what happened? How did that go? What's your story? Thank you. Yeah. Super meaningful for me. Let's imagine that there is a 14-year-old, super malleable, in a hospital chair, hospital bed. And they know, the family knows, and you are walking in to see this athlete that no longer has um mobility below the belly button similar to your case sure okay so let's say they're two two months in and they look up at you and they say chris

i can't i can't handle too much i need three things i need i need to know give me three things to do three principles to to to you know have be like north stars for me help me if you were to if you were to strip this thing down what do you say i think i mean you know in so many ways purposes is is such an important part, right? But what I would say is, find something you love, find a reason that you're willing to do the work, you know, whether that's for, for yourself, for your career, for whatever you want to do, whether it's for your family, whether it's for, I mean, 14 year old kid, I was going to say for your children, but probably not for the 14 year old kid for the children. But, but yeah, I mean, I think old kid, I was going to say for your children, but probably not for the 14 year old kid for the children. But but yeah, I mean, I think that that really is is the objective is is find something you like, find something you love, you know, find a willingness to put yourself in there because that's how that's how you change as a person.

That's how you grow. That's how you're willing to struggle. And if you're willing to struggle in so many ways, this is like, I feel like if you're, if you're willing to struggle, then that really is the essence of being human is, is being willing to struggle, find something you love, find a reason to struggle to, to make it happen. And, and you're going to grow and you're going to be, you're going to be you're going to be happier that way regardless of the situation so you go one principle i really think it probably is one principle i mean find something you love and find a reason to make it to make it real oh that's And so it is so apt to so many of us. Okay.

I've heard you share this sentiment, and I'm not going to get your quote right, but the sentiment is that no matter what you've done, how educated, how smart, whatever you are, something is going to happen in your life. And this is a quote from you that's going to cut you to the bone, that forces you to reconsider who you are. So I will nod my head and say, nobody gets through this life without trauma, big trauma, little trauma, trauma. And when that happens, how do you extend from that first principle? What, what are some steps that you could offer for anyone that is, um, feels like they've been cut to the bone? Yeah. I mean, I think, I think one,

knowing that, that we're not alone is something that's really helpful. You know, even, even if in the situation, the situation is completely overwhelming. But I think that knowing that things do happen and that recovery is an important part of whatever happens. I mean, it's, you know, I told you my motto is it's not what happens to you, it's what you do with what happens to you. And it really is. I mean, I think, you know, I told you my motto is it's not what happens to you. It's what you do with what happens to you. And, and it really is. I mean, I think that's where we demonstrate who we are as people is, is, is, is when something happens and, uh, you know, and, and that idea of, of finding, finding that purpose and finding that meaning.

And it can be really hard because looking at, at the things that can happen to us. I mean, I remember my, my mother died a few years ago, you know, just unexpectedly. And, and I, I didn't think I could cry like that. I mean, I had no idea. I mean, just the full body, it was, it was one of the most traumatic things. And it, and it took me a while. I mean, to really feel like there wasn't just a hole in my life, but part of it was also like, she was, you know, she won would be upset if, if my life was affected as a result of her dying, you know, she's like, no, you need to get on with your life. You need to don't, don't use me as an excuse not to, not to do something.

But then the other greater part of that is, is living with the, with the honor of, of what she, of how she lived her life, that she brought so much happiness to so many people. And I think that that's some of what comes out. It's not always easy to find that root out. If we're blaming ourselves for whatever has happened, that makes it a whole lot more difficult. But at the same time, if we can find a way to, you know, to, to, to find, to find that purpose and to be able to, to, to, to, to celebrate that, that, you know, I mean, it's what the only guarantee in life is change, right? And some things are, things are going to change. And, and I feel like there are a couple of that we as human beings sort of have like two diametrically opposed desires.

One, we want to be successful. And two, we don't want to really want to grow old. And we think that successful is like is something that's static. Like once we get there and then we're successful, then all life is good. And we don't recognize that that the learning, growing and dreaming part of it is the big part of growing, of not growing old. Right. Is that we we continue to we continue to change. We continue to evolve. And sometimes that is really painful. It's also often the thing that we look back on our lives and go, that's the thing that made the most sense. That was the greatest moment of my life. And, you know, and I think we have to look at it and say,

okay, life is not static. Life is fluid. It's this consistent sense of change. And if we can find a way to embrace that sense of change and make it okay and go, all right, well, this is a bigger change than I expected, but you know, okay, I didn't sign up for it, but it's time to move forward. How do you finish this? My purpose is? My purpose is to connect people. I mean, my mission is to turn perception of disability upside down. But I think it really is to connect people on that sense of the disability is the thing that stands in our way. How can I master myself to be able to live my life, live my dreams and perform at my best? I mean, that might be something that's aspirational in some ways that maybe we never get to exactly our best. But at the same time, I mean, in ski

racers, we're always talking about like the search for the perfect turn. And maybe you never get there, but it's like wanting to get there. And so my purpose, and I think that really it's turning that perception of what we consider disability upside down, but also telling the story so that people can see themselves in that journey. Which journey? In that journey from wherever we are now to trying to be fulfilled. In that journey of trying to enjoy the struggle. Trying to learn from that struggle. Trying to effectively be a human.

And trying to master our that struggle, trying to effectively be a human and trying to master our craft and master ourselves, which to me, I don't know, really seems like a lot of what we're supposed to do. So if there's lots of dials to the master dial of mastery of self, okay, or mastery of self is maybe an output in just this construct I'm building, and there's lots of inputs to that output. What would you say are some of the key inputs for mastery of self? Mastery of self, I think that number one is knowing that we have a choice in how we react. That's a huge dial. I think that's a really big one. I'm trying to think if there are other ones, but really knowing that we have a choice is the biggest one for me. But then I think that the mastery of self is also being bold enough, being crazy enough to have big goals, to set those big goals to say, this is what I want to do.

I'm going to put myself all in. And not only am I going to put myself all in, I'm actually going to tell other people that this is what I want to do. Because not only because I think we are our own easiest people to lie to, right? But if somebody else knows and they're like, hey, Mike, you said you were going to do that. And you're like, oh no, yeah, you know, I better. So I'm held to that greater responsibility. And I think that the other part of it is really being willing to accept incremental gains, to recognize that daily incremental gains

are the things that end up becoming something big at some point. But recognizing that the patience of, we've got to get a little bit better today. We've got to get a little bit better tomorrow. And if we get there, you know, each day is building on itself. And, and the other part of that, I think in, in, in concert with that one is that, that we're responsible for our confidence. That, that so often, I mean, you know, you work with athletes, you know, this is how often do we hear that in that, that the interview afterwards, it was like, oh, well, you know, I did it because of my confidence.

You know, it was like, my confidence allowed me to do it. It's like, okay, we hear about that. Is that just God given? Is that how this works? That certain people are just plopped down on this earth. And sometimes it seems that way too, right? That some people just are more confident than other people. But I believe that we, that, that that's part of our nourishment is that we have to, we have to bring ourselves to, to, to, to improve our confidence. We have to help build our confidence and

and be responsible for that confidence let me weigh in i love the dials i love the dials um i i wouldn't have chosen the way you did because um we we're going to think about some things differently which god i love the dials. Because you're speaking right into some theory about agency, determination. You're really speaking about, you're using those dials to ground right to well-researched principles. So it's really cool. Okay, so this confidence thing, yeah, some people naturally, based on their upbringing,

that they come into the world, not maybe from birth, but they come into the world that you've met them at or that I'm meeting them at, whether it's young or older. And yes, they have confidence pretty wired, but it is a completely trainable skill. And it solely rests on the way that you speak to yourself. But it needs to be real. You need to be able to back yourself with some credible self-talk. And it's this continual appraisal about what do I have inside? What is this challenge about? And do I have what it takes to be able to meet the challenge?

If you can find ways to say, I can do that. I think I can do that. That looks like I can do that. I think I might be able to do that. All of that kind of stuff, that appraisal is where confidence comes from. It's what you say to yourself. And that is so trainable. You know, when we come more aware that we have conversations with our stuff, with ourself, and that we're, we are constantly doing this equation, this math about the challenge ahead and the resources internally that, I mean, it's so trainable.

I wish somebody at a young age would have told me, this is probably why I'm in this profession. One of the handful of reasons I'm in this profession. I didn't have it. Yeah. And you have to find that answer. 100%. And people, adults around me kind

loving adults would say hey be confident you just go out there do your thing you're so ready like be confident i'm like how what how what do i do oh just trust yourself and quietly i'm like how you know like okay good hey focus just focus know, like, you know, so that was the, it's trying to scratch that itch of like, how? And, you know, like, what do I really do to make that happen? So it's just the appraisal and self-talk, you know, to make it super simple. But you've got to earn the right to say, I can do hard things. You have to earn that.

And you've earned it. How about it? Can anyone take that away from you? That statement, I can do hard things. You have to earn that and you've earned it about it. Can anyone take that away from you? That statement? I can do hard things. No, no, no, no. They really can't. Other than me. Right. Yeah. Right. Yeah. But nobody, no environment or condition can actually take it away. You could give it away if you wanted to any point probably. Right. good all right so fill this in success is success is uh wow uh success is this sounds like a really simple and easy question i might be mapping looking for an answer at the moment but uh but uh i i think i think that success is, you know, what I'm coming up with is success is a job well done. You know, and I think that really a part of that is that it's so funny, like as an athlete, the goal was always the top step of the podium, right?

And if I made it there, it all made sense. But after I retired, what I look back on were like the two a days, like those are the things that I miss. And you think about it and think, okay, the success is, is, is being able to do your job in the day. I look at that in terms of, in terms of speaking in some ways, like my, my job up there is in my, my, my, I have to do my job, whether I'm nervous or whether whatever it is, my job is, is to put the audience at ease so that they can, so that they can absorb what I'm saying. I have to give them an environment that's comfortable for them to make it work. And, and I feel like that's, that's my job in some ways, you know? And so it's like, how can I achieve it?

And I feel like, yeah, success is a job well done. So if I say, if I want to, I'm going to be silly here for a minute. And you've only got one sentence to say to the next generation of global athletes. You only have one sentence. And you're going to go on stage in this kind of virtual world. Every athlete is tuned in.

They're all 16 years old. And they say, they introduce you, you know, as United States Olympic and Paralympic Hall of Fame athlete. And his insight is the key. One sentence. Wow. This is good. This is a, so one sentence, make this journey to find your best. There is a part of me that wanted to quote Churchill and say, never give up too. So make this journey to find your best.

So is your best already in you and you need to knock the calcium off? Or is your best out there, meaning in your future, and you need to work toward it to cobble together skills and practices? Like, I think about this in those two lenses. Is it already in me? And I need to be fully me in this moment. And that is how I'm going to define being my best. Do that a lot. Or is it, no, my best is out there somewhere. And I need to work towards it. And I need a lot more skills.

Yeah. And you know what? It's fine. I don't feel like it's an either or situation. I think that it is, that the best is within us, that we've got to find a way to tap into. That's almost like the power source of it.

But it's an accumulation of experiences as well, right? It experiences accumulation of experiences as well, right? Experiences, accumulation of learning, an acquiring of to to i want to say to like tell that performance in some ways you know to like it's almost it is a performance it's a it's a way of bringing this power of who you are but but an accumulation of skills and the ability to bring it together and and to avoid in some ways that self-consciousness that oftentimes gets in our way to find the purity of self and the compilation of skills or the combination of skills. Well done.

That is very cool, brother. Chris, tell us about your project, your passion. One Revolution, you know, I know people in the community are going, get me involved. Like I want to be part of this. So talk about one revolution and like, where can we follow along? Yeah. So one revolution. So one revolution is, is my nonprofit organization. Our perception or our mission is the term perception of disability upside down in doing that. We felt like the best audience was to go talk to kids. As you said, kids oftentimes will ask questions.

They're not bound by political correctness. They want an answer. And then they go, OK, that sounds good. You know, where we as adults oftentimes are a little jaded and like, oh, that doesn't really fit with the way that I look at life. So you must be wrong. And so our program is called Name Tag life. So you must be wrong. And so our program is called Name Tags. It looks at the labels. It's actually, it's about getting beyond

the labels that we put on ourselves and others, the limitations. It's resilience-based. Motto is, it's not what happens to you, it's what you do with what happens to you. I have a couple of books that I've written. One is called Things I Want to Remember Not to Forget. I did a graduation speech at Middlebury College in 2011. NPR put it on their list of greatest commencement speeches ever, which was amazing and great because the day before I had woken up at my parents' house, my father, who reads like five newspapers before most people wake up, said, you realize that you're the only non-famous person doing a big commencement address.

I was like, cool. I wasn't nervous anyway. Thanks for the help. And so, yeah. So New York Times included me as one of the 13 commencement addresses that they that they highlighted. So it's kind of cool. So that is that book.

And I actually taught myself how to draw to do to write and illustrate a book called Is It Lonely to Be a Four Leaf Cloover, which I did for my wife's birthday. And, and it's about a four leaf clover that's hiding what makes it great until it meets a dandelion. She's a huge fan of dandelions and they end up falling. It's very Disney, but they end up falling in love.

And, and the question is what's the baby going to look like. And it ends up looking like all of us, you know, as, as, as unique as the four leaf clover and bold and fierce as the dandelion. So, so I do that. And then, uh, I've been working a lot of television, uh, doing stuff with Paralympics for NBC. Uh, I've got a TV show that I'm trying, that I really want to get off

the ground called Chris White Owl Living. And it was originally called, I Wish I Could. It's an expert with a disability who teaches an adventure to an able-bodied person. We were shooting a bobsled episode right before lockdown, which I thought was a great idea to drive a bobsled until I got to the top of the bobsled course. I'm like, who is the idiot who thought this was a good idea? And then you get to the bottom and you're like, that was awesome. That was great. So there's that. And then a podcast with that, Chris Waddell Living It, which is with what I call experts in the experience of being human. Athletes, artists, entrepreneurs, people who've taken the risk to realize their dreams to figure out who they are. I want to hang, Chris. I love what you're doing. I love where you're coming from. And what a treat to spend time with you. And so thank you. You're welcome. Thank you.

This is a complete honor and a complete joy. I really appreciate it, Mike. And keep doing what you're doing. This is awesome. Thank you, brother. All right. Thank you so much for diving into another episode of Finding Mastery with us. Our team loves creating this podcast and sharing these conversations with you.

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