Finding Mastery with Dr. Michael Gervais - Ian Walsh: Big Waves, Facing Fear, Giving

Episode Date: May 11, 2016

When humility, passion, risk taking, mother nature and service collide: Ian Walsh. In This Episode: The purpose of surfing etiquette -Importance of persistence -The moment when everything clicked -Why being able to adapt is the key to surfing -How a vision became a reality -Overcoming a devastating knee injury in Patagonia -A surf trip to Fiji as a turning point in his life -Thriving in the state of discomfort -His process behind making a decision -What “being content” means to him -Why the fear of surfing big waves doesn’t stop him_________________Subscribe to our Youtube Channel for more powerful conversations at the intersection of high performance, leadership, and meaning: https://www.youtube.com/c/FindingMasteryGet exclusive discounts and support our amazing sponsors! Go to: https://findingmastery.com/sponsors/Subscribe to the Finding Mastery newsletter for weekly high performance insights: https://www.findingmastery.com/newsletter Download Dr. Mike's Morning Mindset Routine! https://www.findingmastery.com/morningmindsetFollow us on Instagram, LinkedIn, and X.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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So if you're trying to hit your daily protein goals with something seamless, I'd love for you to go check them out. Get a free variety pack, a $25 value and 10% off for life when you head to davidprotein.com slash finding mastery. That's David, D-A-V-I-D, protein, P-R-O-T-E-I-N.com slash finding mastery. In this conversation, we get to learn from Ian Walsh. And Ian's one of a handful of big wave surfers that are flat out pushing the limits of what we thought was possible. And he spent most of his life working to understand the relationship, his relationship with Mother Nature and inside of and sometimes underneath waves that make even the most salt tested surfers shudder. And when you have a chance, go look up his work, Ian Walsh, and just find some of the images online that capture what he's been able to do. And I mean, just looking at what he purposely puts himself in the situation to capture, to give life to him, as well as to risk life-taking, those images are amazing.

And so he's got a really clear way that he thinks about the risk-taking process and the preparation for it. And if you're curious about how you might apply insights from a big wave surfer, consider working to better understand passion, and if that's of use for you, or humility and the risk-taking process and the mechanics of it. And even we dive into the importance of relationships. And he's also done something, he's on the bleeding edge and cutting edge of innovation for his craft. So if you're interested in passion or humility or risk-taking and relationships, innovation, then this is a conversation that

I think you'll want to deeply attune to. And not to mention, he does all of this with part of the intention of being able to give back and give to. And he's got a real rich interest in being service-oriented to help the generation that's right behind him to be able to give to them. And so it's a beautiful conversation from a beautiful human being. And I hope that you're able to distill some of the nuances and parts of the conversation that had my hair stand right up. And I just think you're going to flat out love this conversation.

He's faced death. Not many people have, and he's faced it. And he understands the mechanics of risk, even before the death-facing process, as well as after. And that's an important distinction, because we might think we understand death, but then once we actually face it, how do we change and grow from that? And he definitely has done that. And he's also chose a very unconventional path. He had great grades in high school, valedictorian. He did it right in high school. But he chose the unconventional path of becoming a big wave surfer.

And he chipped all into that process at an early age and didn't have a backup plan. And that risk-taking process is also really important. And he speaks to, just by the way he's governed his life, the importance of taking a shot at something that feels really good and feels right. And that's an important part of the process, let alone, obviously, we get into the moment-to-moment ability to respond with the proper amount of calm and intensity during moments when he're in the, when he is in that, the amphitheater of risk and it's not going the way he planned. And that's really a mark of someone that has the understandings of how to be an access in just the right way,

in accordance to the demands of the environment, how to be calm and intense and focused, all when it's not going right. And it's easy when it's easy. And it takes an incredible inner fortitude and resolve to stay committed during the uncharted, the unknown, and experiencing those potentially life-taking consequences. And I believe we can all learn from him. And so something as an aside from about surfing, aside from this part of the conversation is that the unique art of surfing and the sport of it, it's really hard to get good at it because each wave is unique of it in itself. And it's hard, even in an hour's surf session, it's hard to get more than 20 waves. And most people get less than 10 per hour.

And so if you think about the amount of time that it takes to get really good at this craft, it's phenomenal. And he's spent so much time in the water and outside of the water thinking about progression that there's so much to learn from him. So if you take a quick moment after this conversation and look up some of the waves that he surfed, I think that those pictures and images are going to be important for understanding what he's done and what he's able to accomplish and speak from. So with that, you can also find him on Twitter at Ian Walsh 4. And so Walsh is spelled W-A-L-S-H. So Ian Walsh 4.

Okay, so let's jump right into it and hope you enjoy this conversation. And yeah, this is a phenomenal opportunity for me. And I was honored to be able to sit down and speak with him and have the conversation with somebody that I've respected his craft for a long time. And now from this point, I respect the human much more. So phenomenal conversation. Hope you love it as much as I did. Let's jump right into learning from Ian Walsh. Ian. Here I am. All right. So I'm excited to be able to really spend some time to understand how you've been able to do what you've done. And, you know, this is like I grew up surfing and goes into the mind and the mental training and the ways of thinking and the physical preparation and the technical preparation to be able to purposely put yourself in really scary situations. Same. I'm ready to learn with you. Okay, good.

I do know a bit about each one of those details. Yeah, you know a lot. Okay, where did it first start for you? Like, let's go way back. Where did you first begin to notice that you were on this path to really understand either progression or how to get better? Or, like, when did it start for you? I think it started in school, really. I had like pretty average grades through the sixth grade. And prior to that, I think elementary school, you just get colors. So I don't even know if that really counted. But right around sixth grade, I was really starting to get

into surfing. And that was when everything kind of swept me up. And it was like, hey, I used to love baseball, soccer, and basketball, and football when I was little, and just one day it kind of all changed for me. And I vividly remember being like, hey, I don't want to go to those practices anymore. As much as I love them, and I love getting the game ball, playing baseball here and there, I would rather go surfing until the streetlights come on every day after school. Okay. So you grew up on Maui. I did. Yeah. And what was that like? You know, like small island.

Yeah, it was pretty, it was beautiful place to grow up. It's incredible. And I, it's ideally for what I do now, there's probably no better place to grow up. You know, there's really good friends, the very active lifestyle that everyone has there. It's pretty healthy. And if you're a parent, a lot of the parents there end up at the beach because no matter which way you drive, at some point you're going to end up at an ocean and that's a good way to spend the weekend and that kind of naturally rolled into me picking up a boogie board and then a surfboard and then did your parents surf were they into yeah were they into the ocean yep both yeah they were so my dad was a surfer his whole life and that's part of the reason how my story ended up on maui because he

was from the east coast and then he went out there to visit his brother who was living there at the time and my mom was there playing in the ocean too she was paddling canoes and they were both working at the chart house on maui and then that's that's how they started okay so then growing up they introduced you to a lot of different sports or that was just kind of what kids did they did a little bit of everything they both worked full-time so sports were probably part of like a babysitting deal for them like oh if he goes and plays baseball we can both keep working and that was more of it and then surfing was something we could do on the weekends okay so because they we lived like halfway up the mountain and they both worked

full-time so weekends were is a lot easier to get down to the beach and spend all day there rather than like trying to rush out of the house on a weekday and then right around that same age in that sixth grade range the house they were renting sold underneath them so they were like in a panic to move and the one place that we could get was conveniently a lot closer to the beach so the bus i would get home from school would drop me off and then it was like a 10 or 15 minute walk or like a quick two minute hitchhike to get to the beach would you hitchhike in fourth fifth sixth grade um no like probably sixth seventh grade probably yeah because there was a little store right in front of the street we lived on so all the guys that were surfing would go to that store for lunch or waters or snacks. And then I would just sit by a fire hydrant and wait for one of those guys to be going back to the

beach. Okay. And what was the name of the beach? Oh, Kipa. Oh yeah. So I've got to keep a story. I've talked about it before, but, um, it was right out of high school and that was my trip. I was going to go surf on Maui and And one of my friends had a parent that lived there. And so they were divorced, you know, when he was a kid and he was a biker and there's a ton of bikers, I guess, on, on the Island. And so we dropped, like, I didn't know what I was doing. I love surfing. I wanted to go surf Hawaii. It was the only place I could get to. So he's a biker and he's got like one bedroom. I'm sleeping on the floor. My buddy's sleeping on like a chair, you know, like with his dad, he barely knows who's a

biker. And, um, so the next morning it's raining and, uh, he says, all right guys, get up. And it was about, you know, I don't know, six 30. And he says, you want to go surf? I'm going to take you surfing. And so he dropped us off. This is now 19, maybe 89, somewhere. Yeah. 89 dropped us off at a Kukipa. It's raining. We've got like $4 and 15 cents in our pocket. And he just dropped us off. And I remember looking at my buddy, like, when's your dad coming back? And he said, I don't think he is. So do you remember Kukipa in 89? I sure do. You remember what that was like? It was a lot different than it is now. Okay.

It was a rough place. It was really heavy. And we were just trying to figure it out. And we're there all day by ourselves. And you remember some of the guys that were there? Yeah. We don't need to name them, but those guys were freaking heavy. And that was my introduction to Hawaiian surfing. Hawaii surfing. So, yeah. So, you know exactly what I'm talking about when I was hitchhiking down there. But that's a great introduction because it is a good place to surf and kind of process all those feelings of like, hey, how does this system work out here? How does this system work? How does the lineup work? How old were you in 89?

89, I was six. Six was six six yeah so you weren't quite there yet no yeah right and i remember um in california like boogie boarding and whatever i think maybe called bodding surfing is was not cool at all and then at huquipa those guys were getting like the great waves and they had all the big voice that you can imagine you know so yeah so you grew up in a scene that had a system yeah definitely a system and that's a lot of surfing is like that around the world there is a lot of etiquette and a sense of like respect for people that have put in more time in the water or live there and just localism really yeah there's a strong sense of in hawaii you get that a lot like you learn that at a very young age like how the

lineup works and how the respect layers are added to it and then what is the what what is the layer or it feels thinly sliced, like kind of a thug gang mentality of localism. And hey, you got to earn your way into the system. Like that feels healthy. The second part feels healthy. But the level of intimidation to keep outsiders out, it seems not that different than, you know, maybe, maybe it's actually, as I'm thinking out loud, like it is very different than some of the LA inner city stuff, right? Like you can't compare. However, there's an element of intimidation and violence and drugs and all of that is there. Do you, do you have a thought about any of that? It's all there for sure. It's, but I think it's, uh, now it really resonates with me. Like that's a testament to how badly you want to do something.

Okay. Like, cause you can be intimidated and as long as you like keep coming back and back and back and find like a sense of consistency and surfing and your general like what you're putting out there as far as respect and how you treat other people's there then eventually you that's how all those guys are probably friends too in a sense you know they see each other regularly you know they're not bothering each other too much per se and they're surfing's like a very unique sport like any other kid if he wants to play baseball or basketball or even skateboard he can go to the park and skateboard if he has a park close by or out on the street on the curbs that curbs there you know the police might give him a little bit of a hard time here and there surfing is a really challenging sport to break into just because it can be hard

to even get a wave yeah you surf so give people an idea you can surf you can surf for an hour and get zero to six waves you know you know like zero zero is a bummer of a day but like six waves in an hour and how long do they last you know good a few seconds really. Maybe, you know, depending on where you are. Yeah. Right. So I mean, world-class waves, you know, right. Are obviously longer and every wave is different. So trying to figure out how to get waves, trying to figure out how to work the social system, trying to figure out how to develop a craft and a technical skill on something that's moving and inconsistent and infrequent really does require what did you say like if it forces you

to figure out if you want it yeah and it it persistence too like if that's what you want to do then you're going to be driven to do that regardless of some of the obstacles and that's what going back to growing up on Maui that's part of the good thing is there's not a million people surfing at every wave there are like once you start narrowing down you do find little nooks and crannies or waves so growing up maybe it gave me a sense of more of a chance to ride more waves and get, you know, adapt a little bit quicker. And I don't know. Yeah. It's just, it's kind of, I strongly feel like a lot of surfers, even though this could contradict with some guys who are just insanely talented,

being a surfer, you're a product of where you grow up and the waves that you kind of decide to ride and mold yourself that mold you until you're to a certain point that you can go off into the world and put yourself in other places and allow those waves to kind of mold the way you're riding them. Okay. So do you think that mother nature, the ocean was the greatest teacher? Was it your peers? Was it your parents? Was it you? Was it your spiritual framework? Like what taught you about life? What taught me about life? Probably like what has been your greatest teacher, I guess is probably a collection of all of that. Yeah. Like definitely some influences I had in my life at an early stage, my parents. And then I didn't really get going back to that sixth grade area in school. That year I had bad grades. And the next year there's just something clicked to me that I was like, I want to get straight A's. And then I got straight A's the next quarter that came about the following year there's just something clicked to me that I was like I want to get straight A's and then I got straight A's the next quarter that came about the following year and then since that day I'd never fell below a 4.0 grade average till I graduated

as a valedictorian in my high school and I think that was literally right when everything clicked like okay I want to do this so I'm gonna do this and then once I kind of started doing that it gave me a sense of like oh I can do this and and the this in that standpoint was um you wanting to get good grades yeah and I I don't yeah I don't even really know what it was It wasn't like my parents were coming down on me or anything. It wasn't like I was having a failing sixth grade or prior to that or my parents were griping on me. It was more just like an early sign of some amount of drive too. I don't know why. Okay, so you've hit like figuring out the social system.

You've figured out perseverance. You're talking about grit or how bad you want something. You know, what are some of you think looking back now? Okay, hold on. I'm pausing as I'm asking this. I'm not, maybe I'm not asking the right question. I want to know how you flip the switch. I want to understand that because that sounds really decisive.

Like you just made a decision. And then I want to talk about this phrase, the way you do small things is the way you do all things. But before we get to those two, I'm wondering if you can talk about looking back now, what are some of the characteristics that have led you to be one of the best in the world of what you do? You hit grit, you know, perseverance. Yeah. Perseverance drive. And probably the biggest thing is being able to adapt. Okay. Keep going on that one. I would, I guess that can be consistent in each thing that I'm doing. Like my ability to adapt really quickly and understand what's happening right in front of me fast. Like, okay, if I say it's surfing,

my ability to adapt to situations or new places. And on the other spectrum, when I was at age in school, I probably adapted and figured out the most efficient way to get those grades without having to have my nose in a book all day long and all night long. So I was able to quickly adapt. Now, granted, I'm sure the school systems are awesome on Maui, but they might not be like some of the crazy private schools that we have close to us in LA right now. But I did find a sense of, I guess, figuring it out. Okay.

Do you think that that was something that was like uniquely you or did the ocean teach that to you and then you used it in school? Or did you just have a knack and a sense like, I need to figure things out. I want to be really efficient and I'm going to figure out how to do it. I honestly don't know. But this is prior to me like having everything kind of start to roll out and surfing. So at this age, I'm still like drawing in my notebooks, drawing pictures of surfing and sponsors I wished I had. Like writing down companies like, oh, I wish I was sponsored. God, I haven't thought about that in a long time.

Do you remember those like blue binders? Yeah. Right. And would you like on with pencil and pen etching waves on those? Yeah. Me too. I would draw stuff in school all day long and draw the sponsors I wanted to have. And that's kinda, so that's, so I couldn't, I don't know if I was surfing a lot, but I had just a strong desire to want to be a surfer already at that age. And like a professional surfer, not just like a surfer. Okay. So you likely had the ability to adapt that cognitive flexibility to figure out how to efficiently do now, whatever now is you somehow had that from your

earlier childhood and, or maybe genetically you were just predisposed to, you know, figure things out. Well, okay. And then would you call that, that thing that we're just talking about now, the writing of the waves and the sponsors, is that like setting a vision? Is that like setting a, like a rich goal that kind of, because I guess in a sense, you know, probably 90% of what I wrote down eventually became my sponsor at one point or another. That's unbelievable. Yeah. Within like not too long of a time too.

So it's like a 12 year old saying, can you imagine this sticker on my board? Yeah. Right. Like, yeah. Right. Seriously. And now you, or you've had the chance to have those stickers or those companies endorse you, but that is okay.

So this is really cool. Cause that's the same experience I had, but I didn't get what you got. Right. I can tell you about more of that later, but the idea of having an image in your mind of a future state really is imagery. Do you use imagery as on a regular basis to propel you to the next state that you want to be in? Um, I don't, I try, I wish I could, and I wish I could say that I could, but I don't too much. I started to try to visualize a few

things in the last few years. Like I got really hurt the first time that I met you and I had a knee surgery around that time and in the rehab process all the time in the gym all the time on the bike I would start to visualize more of like closing my eyes and like imagining what it would be like when I come back to surf big waves that lap, you know, that what it's like, but more than imagining riding the wave, I was imagining like, just, just prior to riding the wave. Oh, like, like almost standing up, paddling, almost standing up or lining up the wave or like mentally coming to grips with like being caught inside and not worrying about other things that like I guess for part

of it like that can end your session on a big day like if you get caught inside or if you get really pounded and I have all this like anxiety like I'm wasting all this time on like such a monumental day I'm wasting time being pounded and draining energy rather than being at the peak waiting for a wave so it's more of like visualizing okay when that happens just slow down and rather than like panic and rush your way through it through the through the inside turbulence through the inside turbulence just like ride it out take it in farther and like visualize like okay even if it takes you a little bit longer that's just part of the day doesn't matter if you're missing a set that was behind that wave because you got caught out of

position so i did a lot of that because we had a paddle machine and yeah did you end up um getting hurt in the turbulence or i got hurt on a wave and then i surfed in pain I didn't a lot of people don't know this yet but I got hurt in October on a really big day at Jaws and I had a hurt knee and I knew it was hurt but I didn't have time to do the procedure because of how busy that winter was so I elected to surf through the winter in a lot of pain and what was your injury do you remember yeah i had a torn meniscus completely so it ripped and had lodged a piece of cartilage in the joint and then i had another calcified piece of cartilage in the joint and i had a strained acl lcl and patellar tendon oh my and it was kind of. You had all that going on and you're surfing. Yeah, and then I didn't think.

I surfed in pain for so long that winter that I started to, like, it really taught me about a risk to reward ratio that year. Like, okay, if I do this, is that worth maybe missing the rest of the winter? So it definitely had me in a different mindset than normally, how I would approach surfing or everyday life, what I want to do. And then I went to Patagonia for a mountaineering expedition. And that was when everything just kind of fell apart. I had gone into that trip and I was like, okay, I'm going to do this expedition for eight days.

And when I finish that, I'll go right into surgery and get cleaned up. Did you have to get hellevacked out of that? Yeah. Yeah, I remember. So that was like another big probably point in my life too where I like is the first thing that I've started and like wasn't able to complete too. That was one of the first things? Yeah.

And it was a training expedition. It was a training expedition and I like got halfway into it and my knee completely gave out on a glacier with crampons. And then it was about, I want to say it was about 20 or 25 miles to get to the heli LZ where I could be picked up. And that was just an agonizing walk. A lot of pain. Finding Mastery is brought to you by Momentous. When it comes to high performance, whether you're leading a team, raising a family, pushing physical limits, or simply trying to be better today than you were yesterday, what you put

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G R a y.com and use the code finding mastery 20 at Felix gray.com for 20% off. Oh my goodness. How did you figure that out? So, so you were on a compromised knee. You said, let me go train instead of get surgery. Well, I, I didn't, I knew what it was, but I didn't think that it would hinder me that much because it was just walking. And, you know, I'm not like that was more of what it was. I don't know. Yeah, I just I had a few people tell me I shouldn't go. And I was kind of like, OK, I think I can do it mentally.

I'm there. And that was really tough because I felt mentally fit. Everything else in my body was fit. I felt like a race car with a square right front, right tire. So I felt like the engine and everything was completely good and ready to race. And then the front tire just couldn't go. And do you know that most people wouldn't, wouldn't even think of going into the back country of Patagonia with a compromised knee that's in pain? Yeah. I don't know, but I didn't feel like it was going to be. I honestly thought I would just walk through some pain for a little bit and then it became like.

And you thought the pain would go away or you thought that it would just be painful? I thought the pain would be tolerable and I could deal and I'd get to have this experience and not miss out on it. What were you looking for in that experience? I know all the guys, obviously, you and I both know the guys that put it together, right? So what were you looking for in that trip? Something different is it was a test as much as it was a trip for me, like almost a vacation away from electronics and doing everything that I normally do is a test because I'm outside of my comfort zone. I'm in mountains, which I spend most of the time in the ocean, as you and I know. So it was a test out of my comfort zone. And a lot of it was a mental test, like how much you can withstand without, you know, before you break. And I was really interested. I was like, Hey, I want to go through this and do this. in a really uncomfortable situation and however, create reasons and excuses why now is not a good

time for it. And for some reason you didn't have that excuse, even though you're in pain and compromised from a strength and adaptation ability from your knee, you still said, I want to go. Yeah. And it was partly like, okay, I can go do this. It's going to hurt a little bit, but no one else I'm with needs to know entirely what my knee is going through. And then I'll come home and I'm going to get surgery anyway was part of my process and my brain. Like, okay, I'm going to get surgery anyway as soon as I get back. So let's do this. Can you teach on the value or importance or how you think about being uncomfortable and what you get from it?

Yeah, I think there's a lot that comes with being uncomfortable. You learn a lot about your own drive. In that case, I learned a lot about my own pain tolerance. And you learn a lot about your ability to adapt when you're uncomfortable and things are kind of spiraling out of control. When you can reel that in and refocus and methodically think about what you're going to do next, that is kind of you can learn a lot about yourself. And being able to adapt is one of this one of your hallmark. It sounds like as we're learning right now, one of your hallmark skills, being able to adjust and adapt in the unfolding unknown. And you wanted more of that.

Yeah. And I also wanted to push myself and learn something. And part of it was probably because I'd already mentally made up my mind that I was going that the MRI and the MRIs and the tests that I did prior to leaving even though they all kind of led to like hey your career might not be worth going to do this trip right now oh I had already kind of mentally I'm like I'm going I want to go and see what this is about almost not that different than when you're in sixth grade and said I'm gonna go get yeah great grades but that the great grades came or the surfing part came at that age. This, everything kind of went completely sideways.

Because it's the same process. You made up your mind and you went for it. I'm going to guess now you might have done some imagery of thinking about what you're, what you will be like in Patagonia. Well, I honestly didn't know too much about what we were doing. And that was part of the project was to keep the athletes in the dark. Dark. Yeah. So I just, that was, so there was no way you could do imagery. There's no way to do it. I'm just thinking process now. And then you got into it. Um,

and it went sideways because it was like, Oh, did I just, it went sideways because we were crossing a 13 mile glacier kind of downhill-ish and i had a really heavy pack on and then that knee started to get worse and worse and worse and then all of a sudden it was just like a click and then i lost the ability to hinge it and then we finished that walk and i was like trying to hide it because I didn't want the trip to end for me and then I couldn't get it to work and I was trying to hide it from the two guys that were leading us and then that morning I was like okay if we were gonna walk halfway to where the hell he could get to anyway and I was was like, okay, if it works here. And on that walk, I realized completely what kind of shape I was in.

Like every step felt like a scalding hot iron was jabbing into the back of my knee. And then it moved into both groins from the limp and the distance we were doing and the uneven terrain. Oh, my God. That sounds awful. What did you figure out? i figured out i have a relatively decent pain tolerance because yep i was able to walk for about 20 plus miles with every step making me beat up with sweat in anticipation of the next step and every log

that i would get to that normally you just hop right over with a spring in your step it's only about maybe a foot foot and a half high and I would get to it and I have to stop and breathe up real quick to deal with the pain and then swing my leg over physically with my arms because it wouldn't hinge and then doing that for miles and miles and miles was yeah I got a little with no like you don't know where that it's not like you've walked a trail and you're at the end of it and you're like, well, I know right where that is. Wow. Like every corner you're looking around, you're like, wow, I got five more miles of walking. And then you chuckle like it's funny, but I'm sure it wasn't at the time.

What was it? What did you figure out now? So you figured out now? So you figured out I have a high threshold of pain tolerance. I can do difficult things is probably something else. What else did you figure out about yourself? I probably, I think the biggest thing was like the sense of defeat almost when I finished. And I got in the helicopter and was leaving.

That was like really hard for me to not finish. I said I was going to go from A to B and I only made it to like A and a half. And then that was probably the hardest thing. And then I dealt with that a little bit and then dealing with it. How do you deal with loss, failure? loss failure like and i think that failure is there's such a buzz about you know fail fast fail forward fail often and that their failure is the greatest teacher i hear all that and taking risks is really important in the fit in the in the approaching success kind of way of living and then failing you, if depending on the relationship you have with failing can feel really difficult, the fear of doing it again can be

petrifying and create people to not go for it. You've, you've had some of the most severe, hostile and rugged conditions in water known to humans. You've fallen. You've had gallons and gallons and thousands of gallons of water swirling around, ragdolling you underneath the ocean, which is one of most people's fears is die drowning. How have you figured out how to embrace mistakes and failure, embrace not finishing this trip that we're talking about in patagonia and still be able to continue to go who i think that's loaded on two aspects the surfing part of that is when i fall on a wave or um and i've i'm in that turbulence now i give people some people some context because i've got images in my head.

But I want to imagine like the whole horizon is standing up in front of you and going black. And it's like a 50 or 60 foot wall or a mountain of water coming at you. And you've mentally committed to go on this wave. I think for me, the biggest part of failure to that is not actually going on the wave and falling. Yeah. The biggest failure to me is that I don't go on that wave or I don't position myself right and I miss it or I'm just out of position. Like a failure to me would be I go out and I'm just not really in it to commit to one of those waves. That's more of a failure than falling on the wave.

Okay, so failing for you means seeing an opportunity and not taking it, not going for it because fill in the blanks. I think because you're out there for like a lot of people will get to the beach and they're like I'm gonna go out and if a wave comes to me I'm gonna go and if it doesn't oh well it didn't come to me you know like I think once I hop off that boat or hop off the jet ski or jump off the rocks to go out I'm already like committed to going on that wave and then once I get there if something happens and I'm just not feeling it or I put myself in the wrong position to go and I miss it then I feel like that's more of a failure like if I had to and it's not the end of the day you know

you're not hurt you're gonna paddle back in and have another day for sure. But in my mind, like that's probably like, I vividly remember going on trips where I didn't capitalize on situations that I was in. And I'd write myself a note and be like, I don't ever want to feel like this when I come in from a surf again. Okay, just I love that. So you'd write it down somewhere. Yeah. So after after loss after failure, which is you and I are going to vibe in the same exact direction, which is the pain of not going is far greater than the pain of going and becoming bruised, scratched, banged up, injured, or embarrassed. What if we're not way worse, way more so and I feel like that's part of what leads me to the intensity in which i train the consistency in which i train is because i don't ever want that to be part of the reason i'm

not entirely committed to that situation because that's an easy escape and be like oh it's kind of not fit i wasn't feeling that good like it's easy to let your mind go to that. So I'd rather be like, hey, I've done everything. If I don't do it, that was on me, not like any other aspect of it. And that goes back to I had a trip in Fiji in 2011. And I went there. It was kind of in the middle of my summer, so I wasn't surfing a ton. I was doing a bunch of other stuff around what my work involves, and when I got there, I went out there

like, oh, I'll just adapt and figure it out really quickly. One of your skills. One of my skills, and I just got rocked. I was completely off with timing. My equipment wasn't there. I was completely off with timing. My equipment wasn't there. I was choosing wrong boards to bring for the trip to begin with. I thought I could just get away with sneaking smaller boards and thinner equipment when I needed much more. So I almost, like, not only was it like an ego check to me personally inside but the day had rocked me and left me like flying home really thinking about like whoa am I really doing this did that all just fall apart like that was really scary I felt like I could have died on one of those days and I just got smoked like barely made a wave the entire trip, broke every board, almost dislocated my shoulder and got on a plane home with my tail between my legs.

And the next summer I approached it entirely different with time in the gym prior. And that winter leading up to the next summer, I ordered all boards I thought I might need if that day ever came back to give me a chance. And then in July the following year, in 2012, it came again, which is rare to begin with. And I got on the plane in a much different mindset, not worried about if I fall or if I get pounded. That day I spent so much time worrying about if I'm out of position and I get swept around, and that's the only window of good wind and the first day the first trip the first day on the way there you were worried about thinking about what could go wrong yeah and then the second so then you had pain about almost dying

and being an absolute amateur yeah and I felt like I surfed the whole day like an absolute amateur i was like i was so worried about mind you you're one of the best in the world yeah yeah but i i can still admit with complete confidence that i was just off that day and not not feeling the way i should be and i had to process that myself quietly on the flight home. Like I didn't even sleep the whole plane ride home. I was just thinking like, wow, that was really, really bad. I flew all the way there and was just a complete donkey, you know? And then the next time I went back, I started to think like, okay, just go one wave at a time and ease. And the reason I wanted to go back was maybe I don't have it in control at this wave for myself. Maybe I'm scared. Maybe, I don't know, maybe this is,

maybe this is not for me in a sense. You started to question your life. Fully started to question. Big wave surfing and your career and everything you've dedicated since you were 12 scratching on those blue binders. Yeah. And then when I got back there, it was a really, really monumental day a year later. But I think what it sounds like is you took that inventory and you were honest with yourself about the truth of what you were going through, your preparation and what you wanted. And then you got really clear about what you wanted. If I'm trying to think about mechanics and then once you got clear of

what you wanted, then you committed and put into plan, put into plan with the equipment, training, technically equipment wise. And you, and you went all in and on the plane ride over, what was that thinking about? If the first one was not worried, I was nervous. So on the plane ride over, what was that thinking about? If the first one was not worried. I was nervous. So on the plane ride over, I was nervous. Like, hey, here we go again. Is this really going to happen again? Same thing, like all those thoughts. And then I started to work in, okay, if things go wrong in the beginning, like it's out of your control, just be content and at peace with how

that's playing out. If you're getting swept around the reef and it's going to take an hour and a half and that happens to be the only hour and a half where the wind's good, then so be it. You can't let that hinder the way you move through the ocean and pick waves. So when you started, when your mind started to go to anxiousness and fear and worry you had some some sort of awareness to say hold on now i can't control that what i can control is fill in the blanks and was that the model for you is that when your mind wanders you come back to focusing on what's in your control it started to be then it had never been prior to that yeah and then i went there and everything went spiraling out of control again. First wave, I was too deep, broke my board, got swept

around the reef and I got back to the boat and something else just clicked. Like the waves got really, really big, really, really perfect. And everything started to unfold. And then I had one of the best days I've ever had in my life. Okay. So we got to, we got to pull this apart. Okay. So, okay. People that know me right now are laughing because this is, this is, this is the space I want to understand most is you made a commitment, you did everything right. You had some pain, you use that pain to create a program and a way of thinking you were on it and you came back when your mind began to go anxiously you came it back to control you put yourself in the situation back in the water and it was good and big and whatever and you got banged up but it was a rising swell

so i knew it was the beginning and it wasn't going to be as big as it was going to be later so it started with a smaller size day and it took me a while to get a wave because the other people in the water and then I got one fell, got rocked, broke my board and then went back to the boat. Pull this apart now from that boat, from the time that you popped up, did the ski come get you? No. Okay. So you got to the channel.

Long swim. Long swim to the channel. Was there skis out there? Yes. Okay. For whatever reason, they couldn't get you and you swam into the channel. And by the time you got on the boat, okay, no, let's go. You're swimming to the channel. Everybody knows Ian Walsh got skunked last time he was here on a big swell and his first wave out, but everyone might not. And I know that in my head. Okay. So you weren't thinking that you weren't thinking like everyone knows you didn't care what anyone knows.

No, this is way more about a personal satisfaction than it was anything else. Okay. So that's, that's important, right? I'm trying to understand if you're thinking about others or you're thinking about yourself. And so you're focused on your experience and then you get into the boat. Let's expand this as much as we can to learn what you do after you've committed to go for it. And it's not working out. So then we had to, it gave me a bit of time because they called an event on and then in that window, was this code red? Was this the code? This is a Fiji swell. WCT was on and they canceled it. I remember this. And that crazy session happened. That was incredible.

So they called that event on and then they called it off because the waves got too big. And that was in that little window. I don't know. I was just like, yeah, I got these boards made for this. I'm going out and just one wave, if that's all I get, it's on right now. And then I got out, and things just clicked right there. I couldn't even tell you. It was a while ago, too. I don't remember the distinct images of what I was thinking in my head prior to that,

but definitely there's definitely a lot going on. And that's probably happened to me numerous times around around the world especially at home at jaws but that one i remember vividly going back to and was like okay i want to do this and like prove to myself more than anything that i can surf this and i want to be surfing this what did you need to be able to make that decision so you had you had to have some conviction and back to the decision making. Keep going. I needed to have the work to do it. Like I felt like a plan and the work that it takes to get back to that.

Okay. So you had the right self talk. Like I'm going to do this. I want this. And you needed some credibility behind you to say, listen, Ian, you've done the work. You're in the gym. You've surfed big waves. You've done this. You know how to do this. You've got the right equipment. And then was it as simple as saying that you just made a decision and committed to that decision? As simple as that.

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If you're looking for high-quality personal care products that elevate your routine without complicating it, I'd love for you to check them out. Head to calderalab.com slash finding mastery and use the code finding mastery at checkout for 20% off your first order. That's calderalab, C-A-L-D-E-R-L-A-B.com slash finding mastery. I say that to myself a lot, like just make a decision. And I believe that 100% and I've seen great, some of the greatest in the world say the same thing. And then when I try to share this, what we're talking about right now with other people,

I get pushback and I say, Mike, you, they say to me, Mike, you don't understand. It's not a simple decision. And I say to myself, like, shit, it is like, you just need to make up your mind with all of the conviction in the world of why you have the right to go do this thing. And what am I missing? I think that's it, though. You're essentially like if you strip everything away and a lot of times that decision can be surrounded by a lot more work and a lot more time and a lot more energy. And that can be part of the reason it's hard to come to a decision and be really indecisive. But when you do ultimately make that decision, I get, yeah, I don't know. I feel like once I decide that this is what I want to be

doing and then I start believing that I can be doing that too. And the work justifies that the work, meaning the practice, the, the, whatever it might be, the training, getting your equipment dialed, like everything that's going to go into it is part of that's building like a subconscious confidence in yourself, I think. Okay. Okay. Yeah. It's part of the base. It's part of your body of work.

Yeah. That's what I call it. My body of work. Okay. If there's only three things that we can train as human beings, we can train our craft, we can train our body and we can train our mind. There might be a fourth. We can train our spirit.

I'm trying to work that out myself. And I'd love for you to riff off of this if you can train craft body and mind maybe spirit how much time do you spend training craft body and mind like do you pull those apart do you integrate them all all into one? No, I definitely probably spend a vast majority of my time training body and training craft opposed to training mind. And then, so what goes into when you think about on the world stage in rugged and hostile environments, it feels like you need all three. You can't be out there. Like there's a couple surfers that we both know that have the right mindset, but don't have the right physical

strength, nor the right amount of craft to put themselves in the situations they're putting themselves in. Right. You know, some of these people and it's like, they're going to hurt somebody or hurt themselves. Okay. So you need to have craft, you need to have body. And then what does it feel like for you on the mental part of the game the day of the day of I feel a lot of anxiety, I feel really rushed. And I started to really narrow that down this year, with a lot of like details to the day and stop trying to worry about communicating with all the people that sometimes are trying to get a hold of you prior to a big day and it just really came down to I guess the morning is the easiest way to sum it up it's a little bit skitzy you know you're you're always, you wake up at

4.30, you're trying to eat something even though you're not hungry because you know you're going to need it. And then you're, have everything packed up and loaded from the day before and you're heading to a boat ramp at six o'clock in the morning with headlamps on and launching jet skis off the back of a truck on a trailer into like 20 foot surging walls of water so you have to start by timing that and when you have a big crew normally like I do going out with safety team other surfers and the production for the film I'm making now it does take time to get everyone in the water and in a a sense, I feel responsible for everybody. So it's kind of like, okay, I'm going to make sure everyone gets in, gets in safely,

and then we can move out to the lineup together. And I just always have a sense of urgency to get out there. So I'm like rushing everyone and feeling like I'm five steps behind everything that I'm doing because I'm trying to get everyone out there and then as soon as I get to the lineup and can see the wave then I start to like it relaxes me a little bit more because I'm not wondering how it is I can see it yeah all right and then when you're out there, how do you go from the anxious, skitzy place to something that is more, more, I don't want to put words in your mouth, but so let me just say, I don't want to lead you anyway, reason I'm pausing is because maybe that anxious five steps behind skitzy place is the right frame for you to be in to go do something really heavy, but maybe it's not right. You're, you are one of the best in the world at what you do, if not the best in the world at what you do in really heavy situations. So is that anxious, nervous, skitzy behind the eight ball pace thing right for you?

Or would you like to change that into something different? I would like to change that. And obviously planning changes that. So I learned a lot about like, okay, planning the day out a little bit better, not the day planning that morning, frantic rush out a little bit better with timing and things being completely set but like anything you have to be able to adjust and figure it out along the way because someone's going to break something or one of the jet skis isn't going to work I think I just feel like I'm missing opportunity and our opportunities come so far and few between that I want to be in the water and deciding to pass up waves or go on them rather than not have the chance to be doing that by sitting on a jet ski, trying to get 10 people

out to the lineup. What is it like to feel and be the best version of you? What is is that what is this target that you're looking for probably just maybe a little more content keep going yeah like i'm rarely content so i think once i find more of like a sense of being content then that's probably a much better version of the way i am right now what does content feel like for you when you're content? I guess just happy. You're like, you're not thinking about something else. You're like completely engulfed in what's happening right there and that's pretty rare for me but the few times that I have had it then I'm probably a much better version of myself I'd say okay so can you be content when you're facing down an ocean that's turning the horizon that's turning black yeah and I think that's going back to that that's like the few seconds where we touched on this a little bit

earlier this morning but when I'm really just before standing up on the wave you're processing so much you're reading the wave you're adjusting to what the bumps are doing how much speed it's coming at you with your timing positioning and everything that's about to happen and that's a place where I can vividly be in that moment and I there's not one other single thought in my mind at all I'm processing a 50 foot wall of water coming at me extremely fast and adjusting to if it's going to break on me or if I'm going to be too far out, narrowing down a placement to put myself in the water in a three foot triangle out of thousands and thousands of yards to be able to take off on just the right

position. So I'm processing my lineups and triangulating where i am in the water as this thing's moving at me and then once it gets close enough i'm really narrowing down to the minute details of where i need to be to take off and the amount of momentum i need to get a little chip shot into the wave rather than let it overtake me. And while all that's happening, you're kind of anticipating if it's going to be a rogue set and break a little bit further out and break on you. And I think just that little window of attention is when the, probably the only time in my life where I'm entirely in that,

those few seconds. So the space between taking off and right before you've taken off before I've taken off. So the space between recognition of the wave and taking off is where you find the most content and you're processing it's there. It's happening in front of you and everything you've been waiting to do is right here in front of you and now you need to commit to it and everything in your body and everything you've ever known is telling you to not go it's telling you this is scary as shit it's dangerous this is you know you look really deep are you really going to make this wave the safest thing to do would be to just paddle over the top of it and not go and you have to go get into your own space

and decide right there that you're committing so what what do you do in that space between how do you how do you make sense of how to go is that that something you program? Yeah, more than a thought. It's a feeling. And that's why I'm saying only those few seconds prior to the wave, as opposed to being on the wave. Because as soon as I stand up, as much as your brain is firing on all cylinders, you're in more of a feeling than you are in a thought about what to do next. So you're adapting, adjusting, and absorbing everything that's happening really, really quickly. And you have all these other senses, but you don't really, like, I don't really hear anything, because everything else is so turned on. And you're just in a space of, there's no thought thought really, because you're just going at a speed that's happening a lot faster than I

could ever visualize it. And how do you prepare? If you think about the mental skills to be able to put you into position to be in a rugged risk taking environment, how do you prepare yourself to have no thoughts, no mind desire to want to do it. That's how you prepare yourself to have no thoughts no mind desire to want to do it that's how you prepare yourself you just know that that's what you want to be doing and for me that's the pinnacle of spending an entire lifetime surfing for me that's where i feel like i'm using every

little detail or little thing i've learned from good situations and bad situations, all boiling down to a few seconds of decision making and processing. And that's where I feel I'm pushing myself the most. What are you hungry for? When you say desire, what are you most hungry for? When you say desire, what are you most hungry for? I guess it's just for me, it's a sense of pushing myself past what what is really scaring me. Like fear is natural. Everyone gets scared. Anyone that tells you they get in those types of waves and isn't scared on certain days is either lying to themselves or lying to you.

And I know I can't speak for everyone, but I definitely get scared on those big days. And it's more of a sense of absorbing that and knowing that you can work past it. Like that's kind of personally entertaining to me to be like, Hey, everything I know and I'm afraid of is right here in front of me, but I can still control myself without a shaky hand, without anything and have my body work the way I want it to exactly where my mind and my eyes are putting my body. It's going to turn and do what I want it to do all on a feeling wow that's really heavy so that's probably more of what why i do it okay and i feel like i'm wasting what i don't know how to i should i don't know i just feel like that's what i should be doing and then is

there a word or a phrase that guides your life? I'm trying to understand maybe your philosophy about how life works. Word or a phrase. I mean, there's some phrase, I guess, in a sense, no, because I haven't really taken probably enough time to even like think that out. If you started it, if you just started riffing, like, you know, the phrase that I think about a lot or the way that I guide my decisions, that's like what a philosophy is, right? My decision making framework, the stuff that guides my decisions. It has to be about going for it somehow. Yeah. And I think when I go back to being really young, it's not what something that I learned much later, but it really resonated with me.

It's not how good you are at something. It's about how good you want to be. like doesn't matter if you're not the best at this but if you commit wholly into that system and entirely in training and do every putting all the time into that craft or what business whatever it may be that you're doing you can be as good as you really want to be so okay that but that's I guess when I learned that much later than when I was young, I definitely wasn't thinking that in seventh grade or eighth grade. It sounds like though, that's what you figured out that if you apply yourself into a system wholeheartedly and you naturally will arrive to a place that you're pushing your limits and those limits involve fear and the natural evolution of anybody

that's doing something grand, either internally or globally is going to bump up against fear and a place for you to work out how to be you in a fearful environment is the ocean in heavy stuff. Yeah. And that'd be something that I could work on my mind a little bit more for sure is understanding that, understanding those feelings and how to use them even more so. Cause all I'm doing is using what I know. And I know a lot less than you do about how the mind works. And I just know that when those emotions arise, as far as fear goes, how to like grab onto that. And I know that the feeling after your mind is scared and telling you not to do something, but you successfully do it is a far greater feeling than most things I've ever felt in my life.

I'll nod my head to it. Same exact thing. And I have this phrase that I think is really important for me is to move into the space of my potential. I need to harness and override my DNA. So harness all of the raw stuff that my DNA and genetic coding is, has designed me to do, but override it because it, my, our systems are designed for survival. And when you purposely place yourself in risk-taking environments, the survival system kicks on. And while we, we do want that to take, you know, to be underneath the surface, we have, that's the point in which we need to override it, to move into the place, the target desired place that we said we want to be in, which is that, that poised, smooth, content, peaceful, fully present experience that you're talking about

between the space of commitment and, and standing up like in that space. So I, you know, I don't know if there's a specific question that you want to explore. I'm happy to do that with you, but I do know that thoughts, my experience and insight in science has led me to that thoughts precede emotions. And as soon as we, I feel an emotional state, I don't, I don't know how to control it. I have a sense of how to harness it, which is to label it and then to change the thoughts, to be more productive than to give into the fear of that experience. So I don't know if that seems too esoteric or not, but that's some of the ways that I think about fear-based risk-taking and overriding the feeling and emotion sensations with thoughts. Yeah. And I guess that's, it happens so fast for me that it'd be

something that I would need to think about prior. Like if I'm going to visualize it, like, Hey, this is the wave coming at me. If I'm out of position, I'm caught inside. Everything's going ugly. The fear of that, like, cause when it happens, it's so fast that all you can think about is like paddle paddle paddle kick kick kick take a deep breath and hang on get to your feet or if you're going under prior to a wave got it oh yeah yeah so then you're like digging down yeah yeah right there's yeah but i guess you're programmed to, to anticipate surfacing. So what you're talking about is imagery, right? And I think you're right on the money that as it, it's almost seems like it's this easy

thing to do, but imagery is actually requires a pretty sophisticated approach to focus. And one of the, um, world champions in the MMA Hall of Fame, one of the best there is, we were talking about imagery. And he says, Mike, two things happen. He goes, I love what I do. Most people can't understand what it's like to close the cage door behind you with another skilled man to have 16,000 to 20,000 people screaming for blood. And you love it. And so he does imagery to prepare himself to take advantage of that moment, to take advantage of the opportunity of that moment. And the way he does it, he says two things happen. He says, my imagery is so crisp and so lifelike that I can

feel my heart rate come up. I can feel, um, how do you call it, the particular fabric of the mat underneath my feet. I can hear the cage door close. And when my heart rate comes up, I know I'm in it. And this is all imagery. He says, I feel like that sweat and heart rate actually happened. And so I asked him, what do you do at that moment? He says, either I continue my imagery, because that's exactly how I feel when I'm, when the cage door is really closing, or I take a pause and I take a moment to bring my heart rate back down because I want to get training in on calmness. So when I'm, I share all of that with

this idea that, um, when you do imagery, you'll feel something. And the idea is to become as lifelike as you possibly can in the situation you want to be as successful in later. And the idea is to become as lifelike as you possibly can in the situation you want to be as successful in later. And then you realize some thoughts and some sensations that you can work with or have less of if that's what you're looking at. Yeah. And I guess for me, it'd be more, I'd be worried that if I'm overanalyzing it too much, it would take me out of certain days. Like I kind of just locked into like, okay, when I get in the water and the waves are really big, it's time to surf now. And the hard thing about that is that it can take an hour and a half before you

even stand up on a wave. Yeah. So the imagery, yeah, the imagery would be done on your, in your living room, you know, like well before you're ever on the sand. And the imagery is part of the training. I would say no different than physical, no different than whatever. Like it's just work, uh, adding to your body of work. And the purpose for me is to become aware of thoughts, become aware of feelings when I'm in the state that I want to be in and giving me reps at adjusting the, here's the second layer for me.

You love Mavericks. You jaws you love chopu you love these places right that scare you how many days would you like to be able to get i don't know next to or near perfect jaws how many days would i like to yeah with any risk, zero risk and zero exertion physically. A lot. Right. And so that's what imagery is. You know, that's,

that's all it is, is getting as many reps as you possibly can in a high quality way of putting yourself in the situations that you're most in love with. And, um, I'll go back to another fighter that I spent some time with and he's legendary as well. And he says, Mike, it's like creating the most beautiful movie I could ever imagine. That's what imagery is to me. And what I do is dangerous,

but I'm creating the most beautiful movie I could ever imagine. But is he painting it how he would like things to go? Yes. And then he's, and I asked that same question about 15% of the time he's adjusting to it being ugly. And then about 85% of the time he's said, those are rough numbers. He's painting the image of it being beautiful. And so the adjustment is like the adjusting part is like, I'm the soup it's gnarly it's nasty it's not what i want to be and i'm getting choked out but that's real that can happen yeah so i work on getting out of that position so he never dies in his imagery it's not the most beautiful movie no right right so he's figuring out solutions as he goes so that that's maybe one way to think of imagery yeah and the mechanic surfing a

big part of it too like in his scope it's there the other fighter his opponent's there the cage is there everything's happening he's working for six weeks he knows at that time he's going to step into that ring the cage is going to close and it's on as soon as the bell rings. That's right. That's right. Us, we have all, we have so many variables to if it's even going to happen when it does happen. Are you 15 minutes late or some guy just paddled on your inside and he's getting the wave you've been waiting 10 years to ride, you know, like there's so many little variables that it's hard to really, that's right. But little variables that it's hard to really. That's right. But again, that goes back to like I'm trying to teach myself some things you can't control to like when that happens, it just happens.

You just have to move on. There'll be another day to surf. But right. And which is easy to say and harder to sometimes manage. But when you really get down to the depth of it, you get when you get really crisp of what's in your control and what's not in your control, and then imagery would be a way to maximize the response of the things that are in your control, right? When someone paddles to your inside, you know, maybe imagery is about you picking up on cues to make sure you don't get back paddled. Yeah. Right. And so, you know, and you can do things, you know, all the tricks. It's not about necessarily sitting deeper. It's about sometimes just slowing down in front of

somebody, you know, positioning. Yeah. And I used a lot of that this year, just a different approach to how I would just for jaws for say, for, for instance, I just, I focused on a different way to approach the lineup this year entirely. Is this like strategy? Strategy to deal with a crowd. Strategy on positioning, timing, where the biggest, best waves look like they're coming in, even if it takes longer. But yeah, with 50 other people out and only a few really, really good waves a day coming in, and for me personally this year, I had a lot more pressure. I had concrete blocks on my shoulders.

The production I was very passionate about and working on. But some days you can go out and the waves are really big and not even get a wave. So I took a step back and looked at the lineup from an aerial view to really see it. And where do you think on the, on the heels of the concept of pressure, where do you think pressure comes from? I think pressure comes more from me from internally. Like if I'm bummed out of myself for a way I performed or a thing I did in the lineup and way more so than someone else being like, hey, man, you kind of blew that, you know, it's definitely more of like a personal. these types of way of do feel there's not much like you can do or say that can change the way I'm going to approach one of those days because realistically you would never do that because

that could be life-threatening for what I do so generally it's all a personal drive or a personal push that you have and some of it is also peer based. You know, that's how our sport progresses and our influences between our friends can push us even more. A lot of times the people in the water with you can change the dynamic of how monumental a day can be in big waves. So let's go back to that first question. I don't know if I got clarity is like, who are your greatest teachers? Are they, is it mother nature? Is your peers? Is it the elders? Is it, it's spiritual influences, peers and influencers. Yeah. And then meaning that when you look to your peers, they, that also value progression that pushes you a little bit harder to work harder,

to be more prepared. Yeah. And I think every, everyone has their own way of approaching a certain, say a game day and mine is to be prepared and know that I'm not thinking about a million different things outside of what I need to be thinking on. And it's taken me a long time to get to that. You know, could you help some people get better at that sooner? Like based on the, so what would you suggest that people could do planning prior to thinking about the day before it comes, you know, don't wait till the night before to track down CO2 cartridges for your vest. Don't wait. Like I have an entire bag of just backup shit for people that ask me for stuff when i get out there on the boat so i don't need to be like dealing with i can

just be thinking about my own show and not letting their problem become my problem and wadding my day up you know like i have a whole bag of just like whatever you need it's in there deal cool so right because being a host or where if you live in an area where a lot of that comes the first if you came out to jaws and forgot your leash probably the first person you would ask would be someone that lives there so i just kind of rather than deal with it over and over and over i have a little bag of their extra gear to share. And then for my stuff, I started to think it out more of like, Hey, what am I going to eat? What do I need to eat? What am I going to drink? Where's my gear? Is everything all organized? And that's more of it. When we think of a high performance model, we think about getting the craft right, getting the medical right, getting, you know, strategy right, getting, did I say equipment right, nutrition, mindset, physical.

Like we just go through like a typical high performance model. How sophisticated do you feel being exposed to the work you've done with some really great thinkers in the field, some of our mutual friends? I feel pretty good. Yeah, I wouldn't say nearly what I should be. Do you? Is it? How are you on nutrition? Pretty good. I mean, blood work. Yeah, I do blood work it, all that stuff. Thanks to Red Bull, I can kind of get that done regularly and test on how things are working. But it's kind of, I could be better. And that's a big part of the issue, time too. It takes a lot of time to go grocery shopping, takes a lot of time to make the food. And that's a lot of time away from other stuff that I would be thinking about. So that's something I do battle

with now is probably time management more than anything yeah yeah no kidding and then how is like physical training what kind of preparation you put in a lot physical training that's something i'm definitely not sacrificing too much this is out dry land work this is dry land work in the gym, activation stuff, making sure all my muscles are firing and things are working out. Like ATC stuff? Like actually getting certain muscles to turn on? Yeah, so I'll have an activation set some days a week, a mobility set, a strength set, and then pretty much top to bottom but nothing it's all geared towards helping me in the ocean but it is also correcting the millions of things i've probably done one-sided my whole life

and then it is dealing with injuries throughout the winter too how many bones or ligaments have you compromised not too many bones ligaments i've had a few, but not, not like not a crazy amount, lots of little stitches and dings and here and there, but nothing. Yeah. Okay. So if this is something we don't talk about very often, the dark side, you know, the, the, the cost of becoming and pursuing your best or the best. And before we talk about that a little bit, if you could, what are you pursuing, the best in the world or your best? My best. I guess for what I do, I'm not going for a world title on the WCT

or the Big Wave World Tour. I'll do those events here and there and I really enjoy them and I used to compete at like that was my drive for the whole year was to compete and now it's changed to where I guess it is solely about my best and just pushing myself and trying to progress our sport a little bit, inch by inch. What do you represent? How do you think people would describe you if you had a moment where people were honoring what you were about, whether it be now or the end of your life or whatever it is?

What do you represent? I don't know. I think it's just, I don't know, really. I really don't know how it would be to perceive, but a big part of that would probably be versatility. And then how about the man, Ian? What would they say or describe? Hmm. What would you want them to say or describe? I guess that I tried to leave a platform to progress our sport or to progress us,

like for kids to have a bigger, like a big platform to propel out into the future for our sport to go further, for them to go further as human beings and I guess that's more of it is leaving like a like building up this plateau it's like a trampoline for them to jump off of rather than like have to go through everything that we might have had to get to to where we are now so it's like a quick switch up to there and some people are the opposite where they're like I want them to go through everything I did and then but that slows down progression. If you can streamline them, streamline them to where you are, or a few of them at some point in their lives and give them

the drive and the belief that they can get to these situations. And then to just smash that out of the park and go further. That's more of what I'd like to see. Okay. So I got something kind of cool is that you and I met once, like a couple of years back, you know, and it was through Red Bull and whatever. And you have a way, can I, can I, can I, would you be okay if I shared like how I see you? Yeah. So

you're an ambassador. You're an ambassador of humility. You're an ambassador of risk-taking progression and caring. There's, there's not an a-hole bone about you. And maybe, maybe, maybe that's just the way we know each other, but I never hear anybody say anything other than the guy's the real guy. He's the real deal. You know who you're getting and you're curious, you're dedicated and you're ambassador for like all those shiny stuff that we would hope men would, will become. And I also know, I don't think you know that I know this, that you put your money where your mouth is and you've got an, I think it's a nonprofit or you've got basically a way that you, I know you're not going to bring it up. So I'm gonna bring it up, which is you put your money where bring it up. So I'm going to bring it up,

which is you put your money where your mouth is. You did it when you were 12, which you said, I'm going to go do this. And you, and you turned it into your lifestyle and way of living. You said, I'm going to push myself into a scary situation so I can figure out how to

work my mind. And which is like, I think the natural state, most people, when they really progress, we'll get to, you're doing it better than maybe most people in the, in the craft, most people in the world. And there's only a handful doing it.

And the same with caring about platform and you're giving to the next generation by setting up these camps. So can you, can you share and maybe give a little love on how people can maybe help you in that? You know, maybe it's funds. I don't know. Yeah. I have a free event that I've put on for 13 years now. And we just had our 13th year. And it started as just a surf contest for kids. And it's kind of over the years it's molded and changed into something entirely different with that aspect still being there.

But my mom was a teacher. So a big portion of what this event represents, as far as surfing goes, is combined with scholastic and academic achievement. So that gives them a bit more drive towards something outside of just being in the water. And a big, what it's grown into now is just a big day. That is a lot of fun for me because I feel like I get to plan an event, how I would have wanted it when I was there. So this is how you're creating a platform. So you don't, the kids don't have to pay to get in. No. Yeah. I didn't have much money, so I don't want it. I want it to be completely free. completely free. And I want there to be a bunch of ways that they learn things without being verbally taught, I guess. Okay, keep going.

Is more of it. So you're creating a guided discovery. Part of what this year was, even though they're really young, I want them to kind of understand the importance of sustainability and where we live, why it's important for them to take care of that because when they're influencing other kids, it'll be pretty quick for them to do that. And by doing that, we just give, rather than preach that to them, it's give them each a water bottle,

all couple hundred of them, and just show them why we're filling it up with water there rather than using like two to 500 plastic bottles down there. And it's a lot easier for me when I was young to learn by just being like, here, grab this and do it real quick rather than like, sit there and be taught and taught and taught. Okay. And then what's the name of it? Menehune Mayhem. How do you spell it? M-E-N-E-H-U-N-E Mayhem. M-A-Y-H-E-M. And what does Menehune stand for? Menehune is just like a little person in Hawaii. So you can call like a little surfer kid a Menehune. And it's grown into this event now, which is almost like a fair down there with like jumping castles and dunk tanks and big art exhibition areas where the kids can go and express themselves as far as painting or any other forms of art with music. And a big venue where it's showing them how to make pizza and how to make fresh juice and smoothies

and so they can all physically do it and what it is was a way for me to create the surf event and even if there's hundreds of kids that don't want to come down and surf or they're self-conscious about competing on that stage they have like so many things to do on the beach that gets them down to the beach and maybe a few of those kids that didn't want to surf will see the surfing make oh that's not so bad there's these guys catching the little kids on the inside it's super fun all these other kids are having a good time and it might lead them to like picking up a surfboard at some point or finding what other form. I guess for them, figuring out maybe a little window of unlocking potential, whether it's music, art, scholastically, surfing. What a rad event.

And how can people help you? Yeah, I'm going to launch that. I partnered with a nonprofit this year, and I'd like to create my own nonprofit now and try to fund that a little bit more to give it some wheels and more consistency. And they can just look up menahunimayhem.com or just Google it and it'll find its way to there. Is there a way that people can throw a little cash at it? Yeah. And that'll all be a write-off for tax purposes

obviously and that's we definitely welcome that because it's been self-funded and this year i finally partnered with a non-profit to where i got a few donors that helped me operate this year's event financially and cool i'll put my money where my mouth is like i wish that we had something like this for my little guy you know and to get him exposed to the fun stuff around the ocean you know in a community setting it's me and him and it is a community setting like the event doesn't operate without everyone that comes down but it is a way like my life is what it is now partly because of growing up there. So in a sense, it's like, okay, this place has given me so much. I can give back a certain sense of like, this is a platform for all these kids that have something

to look forward to each year. Rad. I mean, and if everyone dug in and donated $10, you know, and there's a hundred, hundreds of thousands of people that are making those decisions, you've got a really cool event. And you know, some people have lots more than $10. So, you know, a hundred thousand dollars is really cool as well. And there's not many of those, but yeah. And it goes towards something that is not just about surfing. Like a lot of people would see like a nonprofit that I'm creating and helping get off the ground. It's about unlocking our youth's creative potential, whether that's surfing or art or music or whatever. On that thread, are there any daily routines that you say they're important for me? Or do you have a reaction or a rash to routines?

Routines? I mean, I do. I am a creature of habit, especially when I'm home, but no, I pretty much wake up and it's just like the mornings I'm not in a complete rush. I, I enjoy and I kind of ease into, but a lot of times I feel like I'm on a train track going full speed down the railway. And every time I get to the last track another track starting to set out and it's just like this never-ending sight and I feel like I'm moving that quickly every day okay how do you come how do you combat or how do you find ease in the pace that you're moving up I don't know it's just I'm just how do you recover I get hurt and then that's probably my time to

slow down a little bit or i don't know i honestly don't i have to like force myself to sit still which is something i'm still battling but yeah like can i can i challenge you yeah six minutes a day sit get a get a pillow or a bed or a bed or bench or something and just fricking follow. And I'm scared to even try that. Cause I know as soon as I sit down, I'm going to be like, Oh, I got to do this. I got to do that. And you really don't need to do. Yeah. But then as soon as that happens, just gently come right back, come back to what one breath. And you know, I understand the fear of doing that. Cause you're going to learn some stuff about yourself too. And I always kind of wink at people like, not literally, but like this, this little grin, like

have fun. Cause I know it's like sometimes it was six minutes or 20 minutes or whatever, one minute, whatever you can, can pull together is, um, really, really difficult. And sometimes it's almost like, it's a, like a full body orgasm. Like it's amazing, you know? And that's how I was introduced to by like almost, I think it's 19 or 20 years ago. Uh, this, this guy, a mentor of mine really understood me. And he's like, Mike, if you knew what I knew about this work, you, you couldn't get enough of it. It's almost as if it's a full body orgasm. And so as a little guy, like a grommet, I was like, I can hear that. Oh, what is that? Okay. So, um, and, and that's not a guarantee. That's just six time. And there's a, there's a feeling that comes with it. Similar to the feeling that you get,

I think when you're completely switched on and you can get it in another kind of way that, um, doesn't require external conditions. Pretty cool. Yeah. I'm interested because I do have a really hard time. So let's see if I can hold you accountable in some kind of way, right? I'd love to do this with you, which is maybe, I don't know, emails or social media or something that we're just ping back and forth and create a challenge. Maybe we can get your, your little guys next year that this is something that you can teach them. And now we're onto spreading the next generation, you know, something about being able to harness

the inner, uh, experience. And then, I don't know. I like it. Yeah. Maybe, maybe all of us that are listening, we could go on a, uh, on a 30 day kind of challenge. Maybe we've got to think about this. Maybe you and I lead it, right?

A 30 day challenge. You might be the lead hat there. I think, you know, the two of us, we could figure it out. Like, yeah, you've got lots to teach. Okay. If you could carry a message to another, another person who's on the path of mastery, what would you want to ask them? If I could, man, if you could ask somebody that's on the path of mastery, one of the best on the path or at it, um, on it or at it. I don't know if I know the difference, but like somebody who's

one of your peers on the path to mastery is kind of what we all are entire lives. If you're dedicated to something and when you're at mastery i think you've done something pretty unique and different than everyone else so i'd way rather prefer to ask someone that's there than on that path me too but if i could ask them one thing would just be how to beacon, I guess how to like find satisfaction and in what you're doing. That's probably it. Okay. So satisfaction,

like is, is the question also related to, does the thing you do bring satisfaction or is it something else? I think whatever it is, you're going to devote that much time to doing, if you're going to find mastery and whatever it is, business, psychology, surfing, then the time you're going to put into it, you have to love to do it. And you're going to, that's not really a question of if you're in the right area, you're not going to be like, should I have been a basketball player or a surfer? You know, I got it. Once you're not going to be like should i have been a basketball player or a surfer you know i got it once you're in that you're already in it so deep that there's no question there i think

it's more i guess if i could ask him like a personal thing i'd be like how do you have time management you know so yeah like if i get i guess i'm sure if you're a master of something you're pretty good at time management and people management and, you know, communication. Okay, so check this out. Kai Lenny. I don't know if you guys are friends or not. Great friend. Yeah, so you guys are neighbors almost, right?

I asked Kai the same question. And Kai said, how do you balance everything out? How do you feel emotionally when you're not able to do the thing that you love to be doing? So he had two parts to it. How do you balance it? And how do you feel when you can't do the thing that you do? So this is a thread, right? And so I'm going to pass this, this question forward to somebody and maybe somebody online has that has achieved or demonstrated mastery, not just someone that has an idea, but they've achieved or demonstrated mastery not just someone that has an idea but they've achieved or experienced mastery help us out you know and and tell us tell us what you've come to

understand and ian and i and kai are both going to be deeply listening yeah i will definitely be taking note and that's that's part of it is finding think, a balance of everything you're doing. It's incredible. I guess a lot of it, like, it just astounds me, like, how much work or sport or how much some people get done in a short amount of time. It is phenomenal, right? The effectiveness that some people seem to be on. But how old are you? 32.

And look what you've done. Like, at the same time, you've got a nonprofit for XX number of years. You've won events. You've surfed the biggest, hairiest stuff in the world. You're world-renowned for what you do at 32. You're sponsored by Premier Sponsors. I still don't know how to sit down and sit still yet so so you can all of that stuff's awesome but i think once i can kind of

contently sit down somewhere and not be sporadically thinking about somewhere else to go or something else i need to be due then with that being said we've been speaking for an hour and 28 minutes how much of the time have you said, I got to get out of here. I got to go. I got to go. Not much. I just kind of thought, okay, what time is it? Maybe a couple of times. Cause I do have a flight at one 30. Yeah. Yeah. Other than that, no, you're pretty captivating conversation, Mike. Well, it's you, not me. It's together. Okay. All right. So let's wrap it up. It all comes down to, how do you finish that thought?

It all comes down to learning and absorbing. That's it. If you can take in everything you're doing and take a bit out of each situation, then that situation was well worth your time, no matter what, if it was good or bad. Success is? Success is... Success is your own personal satisfaction in finding that. And not, you know, like, Less is your own personal satisfaction in finding that. If you really strip away everyone else's personal satisfaction of what they're thinking for you, it should be more about what yours is, which is hard to do for a lot of people, myself included.

Yeah. Teach us about your relationship with social media, Instagram, Twitter, the internet. That's a loaded question right now, but that is definitely consuming a little bit too much of my time. And I'm starting to realize I need more help for time management. But it is a connection in a way. It's a way for us to, I guess, I don't know. It's a way for us to I guess I don't know it's it's a way for us to communicate with people all over the world and it's a lot easier to stay in touch with people you meet around the world I travel for nine or ten months

out of the year on the entire planet and I can communicate within seconds with all these incredible people I cross paths with gift gift to end a challenge yes and a challenge more know it's been a challenge more than a challenge than a gift I'd say at this point how important is music to you music is very important to me probably because I'm scared of silence and just sitting there thinking for six minutes but or just being observing the music's important to me like i literally that's probably something deep in some conversation we'll have in the future i always have music going if it's quiet most of the time or if i'm driving or if i'm on a plane i rarely have too much time where if i'm not interacting with people

then i'm listening to music such a good good, beautiful language, isn't it? How important is spirituality to you? I don't even know what that means. Cool. How important is science to you? Science is pretty important to me because that is how I get around the world. I love meaning like engineering engineering and the science behind tracking storms and the ocean and finding out where to be and when to be there of all of the mental skills that we have

being calm being deeply focused in this moment having a sense of confidence doing imagery setting goals and vision setting what are you. What are the most important ones for you? Letting go of mistakes. Letting go of mistakes, but that definitely doesn't come for me. But if I have to put one as far as importance, letting go of mistakes or little missteps and kind of just, okay, can't control that. What's done is done.

That's a big one. And then a sense of calm under pressure is definitely really important as well as a sense of confidence in the unknown, which is also could go back to being calm under pressure. Okay. What is, how do you define or articulate mastery I don't know I define mastery as that can be so many different things but for me it's if you devout your life towards one thing or you have something that consumes so much of your time without it really becoming a burden and that actor that whatever it is you're doing I guess when you just it's

hard because everyone has their own it's not like okay the top of that hill if you can run up there that's masterful or if you win a world title that's masterful I think it's when you completely commit to something and you strip away all the things that can take away from that and focus on that entirely is when you're on the path to mastery. And then when everything culminates at one point with everything you've done, everything you've seen in your life, and you're using that to benefit whatever it is you're doing, then that's when you found mastery. Brilliant. Have you found it? Absolutely not. I love it.

You know, the humility you have is outrageous, bro. There's a lot of waves I've missed. There's a lot of things I haven't done yet in my life. And there's a lot. There's so many different levels of things outside of the water that I still want to do. And, you know, haven't,

haven't found a girlfriend yet. So it's, there's still like a, definitely a big array of stuff outside of being in the water that can lead to whatever it is. But if it's a sport or something, finding mastery is just finding it is putting in the time and doing everything you can to take innate ability innate born-given ability and talent with work

ethic and the brains to adapt and be quick at the one place oh I love it talent genetic coding yep a lot of that work ethic and the smarts and the desire to want to be better than the day before. And then to be able to adapt and make quick decisions in, in the time that takes brain work too. So you have to have a lot of that in. Um, thank you. Easy. Thank you. I you. I learned more than you did here. I'm not sure. Yeah. Well,

I think that that's the hope for these conversations is that we both are better. And anyone that happens to be listening can pull some gems as well. Your framework is on point, you know, and the way you've designed your life is inspiring. And if there's any resource I can be on you, you already have the work ethic.

You've got the genetic coding. And if there's anything as a resource I can be for you, just let me know. And then that being said, where can we find out more about you? You can find out more about me in about five months time when I release a movie about and about my life and exactly how it works and why it is the way it is. And everything that comes around riding the type of waves that I'm looking for all year long, and that'll release in, um, the first week of November. Okay. Brilliant. So when you're making that tour, let's bring it back and kind of see what the difference and highlight some of that and get a buzz for that. So that'll be easy. Perfect. Let's do that. And then, um, social

media, what is it? Instagram is at Ian dot Walsh. Twitter is at Ian Walsh for, and Facebook, you can just type in Ian Walsh and you'll find it. And there'll be a white background as a profile. Brilliant. Okay. Good. Yeah. Are there lots of Ian Walsh's? There's a couple. There's a couple creeping around. Okay. Perfect. I love following on Instagram, seeing what you're up to.

So I want to thank everyone for listening. And if you want to continue this conversation, find Ian on social media. You can find me at Michael Gervais. You can find this podcast at finding, no, not at www.findingmastery.net. And I want to thank everyone for listening. I want to thank Ian for sharing his insight and your framework and everything that makes you special, bro. No problem. Happy to be here. Thank you. All right. Thank you so much for diving into another episode of Finding Mastery with us.

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