Finding Mastery with Dr. Michael Gervais - It's Time for America to Look in the Mirror | Former NFL Player, Michael Bennett

Episode Date: June 3, 2020

This week’s conversation is with Michael Bennett, a defensive end in the National Football League.Michael signed with the Seattle Seahawks as an undrafted free agent in 2009 and was an instrumental member of the 2013 team that won the Super Bowl. He's also a 3x Pro-Bowler.While Michael’s craft is football, there is so much more to Michael the human being.He’s an advocate for social justice and after the events of the last week and the ongoing protests, I wanted to have him on the podcast to more than anything else just … listen.Michael’s words are significant. He has much to share. But what I found even more powerful than his words was his tone.He doesn’t once raise his voice, he doesn’t blame others, yet you can hear the pain in his voice. You can hear the yearning for change; for a different America.We discuss the systemic issues that make everyday life difficult for African-Americans and what each of us can do to make a positive impact going forward.This is an incredibly difficult, yet important time for our country.I recognize that change requires action and solely talking about it will not suffice.At the same time, I hope that we can use this platform to continue to learn, to better understand, and to empathize with those who have felt silenced for so long._________________Subscribe to our Youtube Channel for more powerful conversations at the intersection of high performance, leadership, and meaning: https://www.youtube.com/c/FindingMasteryGet exclusive discounts and support our amazing sponsors! Go to: https://findingmastery.com/sponsors/Subscribe to the Finding Mastery newsletter for weekly high performance insights: https://www.findingmastery.com/newsletter Download Dr. Mike's Morning Mindset Routine! https://www.findingmastery.com/morningmindsetFollow us on Instagram, LinkedIn, and X.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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stay present and engaged with my thinking and writing. If you wanna slow down, if you wanna work smarter, I highly encourage you to check them out. Visit remarkable.com to learn more and grab your paper pro today. Look in the mirror is the hardest thing to do because when we draw ourselves, we can draw ourselves the way

that we want to draw ourselves. When we're on Instagram, we can paint the picture of our life the way that we want people to see us. Facebook, every other thing in this world, world and society that we see that's important. But the thing about the mirror, when you look at that mirror, you see those scars, you see the aging, you see that you're not the same person that you be. I think America has never looked in the mirror and seen the reflection and really looked

at what has been personified for its people and the justice that has been so ingest to the people that love and work hard to be a citizens of America. And I think white people haven't looked in the mirror and really looked at themselves and asked themselves, what have I done to help another human being? This isn't about color anymore. This is about humanity. This is about justice for other human beings living. We have PETA who look out for animals and they go crazy for animals. They march.

But what about the human? We expect humans to, we expect that humans have free will and we expect that humans aren't, that when they die, it's just a part of life. But when they die unjustly, what are you doing to really challenge that scale? What are you really doing to go out and uphold

the amendment and the constitution that you hold so dear to your heart? What are you doing to make it really be relevant in 2020? Okay, welcome back or welcome to the Finding Mastery podcast. I'm Michael Gervais. And by trade in training, I'm a sport and performance psychologist, as well as the co-founder of Compete to Create. And the whole idea behind these conversations is to learn. And to put those learnings into action. And our community, these conversations are with people who are pushing up against the edges, who have dedicated their life efforts towards understanding the nuances of being human and the nuances of their craft.

And these conversations in this community is, I mean, you guys are radical. So I want to thank you for what we're creating. And I also want to take this moment and this episode to really mark the opportunity to create change. Finding Mastery is brought to you by LinkedIn Sales Solutions. In any high-performing environment that I've been part of,

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try LinkedIn Sales Navigator for free for 60 days at linkedin.com slash deal. That's linkedin.com slash deal for two full months for free terms and conditions apply. Finding Mastery is brought to you by David Protein. I'm pretty intentional about what I eat and the majority of my nutrition comes from whole foods. And when I'm traveling or in between meals, on a demanding day certainly, I need something quick that will support the way that I feel and think and perform. And that's why I've been leaning on David Protein Bars. And so has the team here at Finding Mastery. In fact, our GM, Stuart, he loves them so much.

I just want to kind of quickly put him on the spot. Stuart, I know you're listening. I think you might be the reason that we're running out of these bars so much. I just want to kind of quickly put them on the spot. Stuart, I know you're listening. I think you might be the reason that we're running out of these bars so quickly. They're incredible, Mike. I love them. One a day, one a day. What do you mean one a day? There's way more than that happening here. Don't tell. Okay. All right. Look, they're incredibly simple. They're effective. 28 grams of protein, just 150 calories and zero grams of sugar. It's rare to find something that fits so conveniently into a performance-based

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for longevity. And I love that David is making that easier. So if you're trying to hit your daily protein goals with something seamless, I'd love for you to go check them out. Get a free variety pack, a $25 value and 10% off for life when you head to davidprotein.com slash finding mastery. That's David, D-A-V-I-D, protein, P-R-O-T-E-I-N.com slash finding mastery. Now this week's conversation is with Michael Bennett, a defensive end in the National Football League, who was an influencing member of the Super Bowl winning team Seattle Seahawks in 2013. And he's also a three-time pro bowler. So while Michael's craft is football, just like all athletes, there is so much more to Michael.

He's an advocate for social justice. And after the events of the last week, we're in day seven of the United States of protesting and some rioting. I wanted to sit down with Michael and have him on the podcast and more than anything, to listen. His words are significant. He has much to share. And he spent a lot of time advocating and thinking and writing and reading and listening and learning about social justice and injustice. And what I found most important, most powerful, were not necessarily just his words, but the way that he put them together and the tone of this conversation. He doesn't once raise his voice. He doesn't once blame others. And you can hear the pain in his voice. You can hear

the yearning for change, the sadness that comes with it for a different America. And we discuss the systemic issues that make everyday life difficult for African Americans and what each of us can do to make a positive impact going forward. And this is an incredibly difficult yet important time for our country. And it's amazing to watch other countries step up as well to talk about social injustice and social justice. So this isn't just a United States thing. This is about humanity. It's about humans.

Now, change requires action. You've heard me say that a lot. Solely talking about issues, it's just not good enough. Listening is incredibly important so that we can make informed, empathetic changes that are grounded in dignity. And that begins with thoughts, right thoughts. And from that, the right actions will follow. And I'm very clear about the power of a non-violent approach to change, to being better. And maybe in a future episode, we'll get into the weeds of why that position is so important to me. But the anger and the rage that you're watching or experiencing, it does spring from a place. Anger is a secondary emotion, the best way I can understand it. It comes from a place. And systemically, it's coming from the inability to hear and feel the suffering of sadness and hurt and fear from other people.

And if you can't deal with suffering, you can't really be part of the solution for humans to do well in life, yourself included, for people in your family, for those in your community. And the Finding Mastery community, you know, we designed this thing to learn, to better understand, and to put those learnings into action. And my hope is that you can practice empathy, especially with those who have felt silenced for so long. So I just want to take a moment before we get into this conversation, a moment of silence to recognize a time in your life when somebody completely disregarded your life essence, where you were treated unjustly, without dignity, without cause, where you knew with all of your heart that the

other person or group, they had zero regard for what you had to say, for what you had to offer, for your presence. Where in the most subtle of ways, you were cast aside by a glance, by a gesture, maybe even with words, or maybe even something even more aggressive or violent where you perhaps knew it was absolutely unsafe to be there. I just want to encourage you to take a moment to connect. Do this for yourself. Do it for the Floyd family. Do it for all the people who have suffered from violent thoughts and violent actions. Just tap into that experience for just a moment. For so many of us, silence is hard because it challenges us and it forces us to examine.

Examine the parts of us that we want to put in the corner sometimes and we don't want to take a look at. And if you found yourself saying, I don't know what he's talking about. I haven't felt that. There's some work to do there too. And if you can't feel it for yourself, that's okay. And if this stirred something up, go get with a wise person, a psychologist, a trained professional to talk it out, to figure it out together.

And if you really couldn't tap into it for yourself, okay. We all have different paths and journeys. Maybe there's a way to tap into what it would feel like if that were the case. Maybe think about a child that was treated unjustly or without dignity. So with that, let's jump right into this conversation with Michael Bennett. Mike, how are you? I'm outstanding, man. I'm in a great space. I'm feeling good physically, mentally, even though the world around us is coming to an end. But it's just, you know, that's the new normal, I guess. At the time of this recording,

we've had six days of protesting meets rioting across America. And, you know, that's why I want to talk to you, is I want to first, though, understand and give people a chance to understand how you were raised, your conditions growing up, the experiences that you had to set the stage for why you are so passionate about justice and injustice. And so can you just bring us back to what it was like growing up for you? I mean, I grew up, my dad was in the military and my mom, my mom actually had me at 16. So I kind of grew up with younger parents. And I think my mom was, she was a great woman.

But I think anybody that has kids that's early, if you have five kids before you're 21, it kind of like shapes, you know, you don't have to get a chance to be a kid. And you're kind of in that limbo between being a kid and an adult. So I grew up in different areas and some of the hardest, roughest places in the country. I grew up in San Diego when it was really high gang violence back in the day. And I remember the first time I actually was telling my friend, I was like, man, I look back at it and it's one of those things. I remember actually the first time I ever saw a dead body was like 10

and I was like nine or maybe, no, I was like seven years old, 7 years old the first time I seen like a dead body just laying in an apartment complex on the ground. And I always thought like that was just like, it was just life. Like people die and people have these traumatic experiences in growing up. And they shape people to have like who they are as an adult. And I think, me, I had these different experiences, like, being in that city environment and being in this rough area where gang violence is high. And then going into Louisiana. And I feel like Louisiana is, like, where my family is from. So it's, like, literally where my family is from. You can look back and see graves from the 1700s with my family's names on them.

And so that's, like, the beginning, the essence of my whole being. Like, okay, I grew up, I was born there, but then I moved away because my dad was an evictor, going place to place in Bremerton, San Diego. And then I, with my parents, my dad sent us to Louisiana for a year or two. And I think that's kind of where I really started getting grounded and seeing a lot of things. I think that's kind of where I kind of got my spirituality from and kind of seeing where you can connect the spiritual and,

and the fleshly, the fleshly and spiritual battle that we all dealing with on a daily basis. And I think I had this fleshly part seeing all these different things where it was like violence and all these different things and how to like conquer this anger but then being in louisiana my grandpa was a preacher and all my uncles were preachers and then having a chance to hone that anger and being able to make it into something and turning that anger into passion into conviction into something more than just anger and rage and i think over the time i spent a lot of time of time as a kid going to different African-American camps because my stepmother went to Grammar University. So I spent a lot of time for their summer camps and learning about the history of African-Americans and just the story of us and the story of what we've been through, the history and the importance of carrying that legacy and the importance of bringing justice and restoring and reclaiming humanity for people that look like me

and people who are underprivileged and don't have the opportunity. And I felt like that one day, I never knew I was going to be an NFL player. I didn't know I was going to be an NFL player. I mean, you look back, I wanted to be like a movie director or a chef or something. I never thought I'd be in the NFL. And just along the way, it was like, oh, man, I'm good at this, and there's more opportunities.

Can college coaches start to come? I said, oh, might as well kind of do this thing, right? But at the same time, I always – my mom and my dad were – my mom's a teacher, so we were always rooted in the community. And my dad was a dad who was driving the players around. And so I always felt like there was this this battle with within the coach and thing and there's hierarchy and um and athletics especially when it comes to white coaches and black players um and and the relationship right

there's most white player white coaches seem like the father figures for a lot of players and it was hard for them to understand that I had a father and I was just here to play football. And so that was always a clash because I'm like, I don't need you to teach me how to be a man. I have a black father who can teach me how to be a black man in America. And it's hard for white coaches to really understand what it's like for their players.

And that was always a battle for me growing up in this this as i moved from the high school level which was high school level was usually based on your community these are the same people so i see hispanic people asian people and black people all the time in my community so this is where i grow it this is the culture of the people then i go to college and it's like everybody has this this conundrum of how to, like, take who they are and put it into this, assimilate into this college culture, which doesn't allow them to really be themselves. They want to have drained all the talent and everything that comes with that talent, but everything that comes with the personality, right, there's somebody trying to suppress that and oppress that idea of who you are to create another person that they can have and make them into a mentoring candidate who can carry their stories, who can build their brands, who can tell why the team is important,

but never ever have an opportunity to tell who and what their culture really resembles. And I felt like for me being growing up in Louisiana, I had that inside instilling me to always speak truth and always be able to connect with people because at the end of the day, there's people who really make the world run. So this is an insight that has been shared with me numerous times. And the insight is that one of the ways it's like to be

an African-American youth is that you've got two selves. And I don't want to overgeneralize, but I just want to see if you find a commonality in this, is that you've got one self that you are around your friends, your peers that look like you and are from your community. And then you've got another self around white people. And that is a more professional, like there's almost a faking of professionalism. And there's a dance that you have to do to be able to be accepted in that culture, because some of those people hold positions of power. And so can you illuminate that just a little bit that two selves thing i think it's true i think there is a two selves thing and i never heard a white man talk about them two selves thing so it's really funny to hear you talk about it but

wait wait hold on so am i wrong on it or is it is it close to being right that's right i mean there is a sense of like you know people have to play the game that they say play the game because what happens is that black men are seen as savages and seen as being unintelligent and not being intellectual so you're just like if you are who you're like those people you can't be your whole self like there's a side of you that's connected to your culture and within your culture it doesn't matter how you speak and how you do it that's who you are but in this realm if you say these or something in the wrong manner people think that you're unintelligent and so I feel like people are doing the two dance to they're really looking for the to be accepted and also to be able to seem like they can assimilate

into that new culture and that new world that they're going because there's this cutoff line like that identity of you can't come above this line this line right here is is for certain people who speak a certain way that dress a certain way that have a certain car to have a certain degree and so there's there's there's this war of yourself there's war within yourself this commonality of this balance and this it's like this this brutal side of you trying to meet the morality. And it's just a lot of different things that it varies for a young man to have to really deal with. I mean, the idea that you're not accepting for who you are and,

but your talent is a septic is a hard burden for anybody to really deal with. Right. But there is this battle, but between you, between you, between yourselves at all the time in your mind, and you having to speak this way and to be accepted for. without judging you and not having a pre-idea about you or just not being able to really just understand you. And I think the war with yourself and having to take it all the time, I think people get caught up in acting, and then they start to believe in that character. And a lot of times when you're looking at a lot of NFL players

or college players or NBA players, you're really looking at a character, not really looking at a person. And sometimes we get that line blended between the character and the actual person. And I think that's the hardest thing for the coaches to do. So there's a splitting that happens at a young age. And I think many people can relate to this idea of trying to figure out how to fit into any environment. But the cultural abandonment is something that is deeper for people that, I guess, have to fake something. That cultural abandonment is is a deep compromise that being said you know what you see at the most is actually mike if you look at any position it's usually the positions that require a lot of attention like quarterback to me is the hardest one every other position doesn't really have to compromise as much when you get to nfl as quarterback i feel like quarterback

is the number one position where you see a guy straddling that line right because it's very rarely that the quarterback speaks on social issues or things that's happening pertaining to their color or what's happening in the world because they're the franchise and so when you're the franchise you're expected to speak like the franchise you are representation of the franchise when you look at defensive ends you don't be like that's the franchise the defensive ends come and go quarterback stay 10 15 years with an organization. And I think if you look at the quarterback position, those are usually the positions where I feel like they're really at the war

with themselves and really trying to find the duality of being connected to their culture and also being connected to the brand to support the lifeline of the, of the character that they're portraying. Finding Mastery is brought to you by Momentous. When it comes to high performance, whether you're leading a team, raising a family, pushing physical limits, or simply trying to be better today than you were yesterday, what you put in your body matters. And that's why I trust Momentous. From the moment I sat down with Jeff Byers, their co-founder and CEO, I could tell this was not your average supplement company.

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at FelixGray.com for 20% off. Okay, so there's different compromises at different positions you're saying in the NFL and maybe across other businesses. Here's what I want to get into a bit. I want to talk about justice and injustice. I want to understand why it's so important to you. And then I also want to understand, you know, what do people that look like me need to understand. And I want to start that part. Let's work in reverse order. I want to start that with a, uh, one, one of the highlights for me in, um, with the Seattle Seahawks is, and you wouldn't know this cause we haven't talked about this yet, but I can't remember where we were, but you, uh, it was after practice, you know, we got five buses. Do you know where I'm going with this?

After practice, there was five buses. Was it in Tennessee? No, I don't think it was actually. Maybe it was, but it was well before 2017. It was well before 2017. So you grabbed me, you put your arm around me coming out of practice. And I was like, oh boy, what's Mike up to? And you say, hey, I want to talk to you. Do you remember this? Yeah. Yeah. So it happened a couple of times. And so we ended up going into whatever bus you're on. I don't know if it was three or four. I don't know which bus number it was. And we were in a, I don't know, 20, 30 minute bus ride a handful of times. And we talked about everything but football. We talked about race. We talked about politics. We talked about religion. We

talked about history. And it wasn't like it was a, I don't know, it was just an intense conversation amongst people that respect each other. And so I just want to say like those conversations, I mean, I'm so stimulated by them and I wish more people could have them. And so I want to start with that note by saying, what do people need to understand? I think people need to understand that there's another world. There's two Americas and it's America that divided between those two Americas. We have an America with people who are privileged that get to enjoy the idea

and the fundamental ideas of the forefathers of America, the justice, the equality, the power, the everything that comes with the idea of being an American. But then there's this other underlying America where they suffer every time for all the things that are are supposed to be for all Americans you know you live in this and you can see it every time there's a divided line everywhere

you go there's a good part of the city and there's a bad part of the city and every time you see the good and the bad the white side is always the best side and the brown and black side is always the worst side of town and I think we live in a world where a lot of people in America haven't really realized or they have realized it, but unconsciously they have been, they've been in an unconscious state of mind to not really have a connection to those people because they don't connect to those people's humanity. And I think we're not dealing with the problem of skin color right now and the racial tension in America. We're really dealing with the lack of humanity for other human beings who don't look like you, who are not part of your intergroups. And we're dealing with people who don't understand

that power comes with the sacrifice of justice. And people who have power have sacrificed justice for the rest of the world. And the people who are in power have not realized the privilege that they've had to enjoy, to get inside their car and not to be put over police. The idea of not being stopped, the idea of not being frisked, the idea of not being killed when they become the police, because they have lived on the other side of policing, where policing have been servants to them. They've served them. They're the police that you see when you get the cat out the tree. They policing, where policing have been servants to them.

They've served them. They're the police that you see when you get the cat out the tree. They're the one who help you open the door. But we've been on the other side of that, where we've been victimized. And every time we see the police, we don't trust them. We don't trust America,

because everything that has happened to us in America has been traumatizing. And people don't understand the trauma, the traumatization of the people of color in this country and especially black people because we look at slavery as something that we have not connected with because it's so long it's almost like a figment of our imagination for most people who say well that wasn't me i wasn't part of that america i don't know that america and you know that i wasn't a racist, I didn't have slaves, but you benefited off the history of slaves.

And then we're dealing with something that was more than fleshly. We're dealing with spiritual wounds that haven't been mended. We're dealing with an America who has not, has reconciled its history to acknowledge the pain and the hurt and the trauma that is put on its people of color and the people of color who have been the working class of this country since the beginning, the people who picked the cotton, the people who built the White House, the people who did every type of work that nobody else wanted to do. We did those jobs and still we face persecution. And over a hundred years since, you know, since to be out there, the abolishment of slavery, all these different

things are only in a, and I'm not even talking about just, we're talking about since the beginning, we're talking about 1920. In those hundred years, the racial tensions and the racial parts of America has not been faced. We're dealing with people, white people who don't even understand that people, the last time a person was lynched at home was in 2006 to think about that a person is now we're seeing the rip of the ramifications of what that does to people and we're looking at a traumatized group of individuals who have tired of overcoming who are tired of the feeling like they should

feel like it's not even about death it's about the right to live it's the right about the right to have the humanity that is supposed to be for every human being that is born on this planet underneath the privilege of God. It's to seek freedom. It's to be able to be free, to be safe. And I think white people have it connected that as human beings, we all want the same thing. We all want food. We all want shelter. We all want equality. We want to be able to take care of our kids. We want to be able to feel like when we get in the car that we're coming home and that we're going to have the opportunity to see our kids once again. And this is what we're dealing with. When we see George Floyd, we see us. We see that that could be me one day. White people see it as, oh, that's just another day. Like, they're always yelling but this is not that people are screaming to be to because of the death we're screaming because we deserve to live we deserve to have life we deserve to have

liberty we deserve everything that this american constitution is built upon we deserve that the power and the structure of america was built in that we all know that democracy and the government and the way that people who are in the democracy the reason why the american people and the forefathers left the british monarchy was because they wanted a democracy they wanted democracy that the people who were being governed with the government that was governing the people represented the people's struggle and the plight of its individuals and we're looking at an an America who don't recognize the plight and the individual, the people that they govern, the same people who pay taxes,

the same people who follow the laws, do not feel like they're being, they feel like everything they do is being vilified. And the life of a black man or black person, a brown person in America can be horrific. And people, white people, do not understand that, nor do I think they want to understand that. Because I think, and this is just my opinion, and I'm not an intellectual person like you, but I'm saying,

I think that if we look at... It's a little jab right in there. Okay, keep going. I think we've learned that when we look in the mirror, the thing about looking in the mirror, and I think if you look at a lot of, looking in the mirror is the hardest thing to do.

Because when we draw ourselves, we can draw ourselves the way that we want to draw ourselves. When we're on Instagram, we can paint the picture of our life the way that we want people to see us. Facebook, every other thing in this world, in this society that we see, that's important. But the thing about the mirror, when you look at that mirror, you to see us. Facebook, every other thing in this world, in this society that we see that's important. But the thing about the mirror, when you look at that mirror, you see those scars.

You see the aging. You see that you're not the same person that you'd be. And I think America hasn't never looked in the mirror and seen the reflection and really looked at what has been personified for its people and the justice that has been so ingest to the people that love and work hard to be a citizens of America. And I think white people haven't looked in the mirror and

really looked at themselves and asked themselves, what have I done to help another human being? This isn't about color anymore. This is about humanity. This is about justice for other human beings living. We have PETA who look out for animals and they go crazy for animals. They march. But what about the human? We expect humans to, we expect that humans have free will and we expect that humans aren't, that when they die it's just a part of life. But when they die unjustly, what are you doing to really challenge that scale?

What are you really doing to go out and uphold the amendment and the constitution that you hold so dear to your heart? What are you doing to make it really be relevant in 2020? What would you want people to do? I think I want people just to, I think it's time for people to stand up for everything that they hold true and dear to themselves, the same rights and the same thing that they love for their kids and the safety that they

want, they need to go out and fight for it for other people of color who are not having those things. And I think it's about voting. It's about giving people the opportunity and understanding the privilege that you have had. I think that's the biggest thing. I think we have to find a sense of empathy and sympathy because I don't know the exact way to, how do you change the society? I think it starts with empathy and sympathy and a way to connect spiritually with other people

and really understand it. It's about changing the moral factors of America because America's living in a place where spirituality, we're living where we're spiritually bankrupt. When you bankrupt, you got to file for Chapter 10. You have to restart, and I think we have to restart and acknowledge the pain and the hurt of other people, and not just brush it off, and not just see it as something that's just a part of life. Just see it as this isn't a part of life. This is evil. This shouldn't be happening to people this is about humanity and i think that's where we're missing all the points about the structure of humanity what is what is the what is the reason of being right you know what i'm thinking right now is like do you sometimes like when when you and i speak i think um because we do talk about

race and differences and similarities a lot, is that do you ever feel like you have to, because I'm white, that you have to take the position of all blacks, as opposed to like, hey, here's my experience? Because sometimes I feel like I've got this thing going on right now that part of me is embarrassed about what's happening. Part of me is outraged. Part of me is saddened. I've got a lot of different feelings than I'm feeling. But I also know that there's implicit things that I've benefited from based on the privilege of how I was born and where I was born. And there's also conscious decisions that I've made to do good in the world, to do right by humans and to arm them with the tools to have a better life. So I've got, I've got that experience that's in me,

but sometimes I feel like I'm speaking for all white people because I'm white, which is not fair. It's not right. Like, I don't know. I don't know enough people like to speak for the whole race. Do you ever, and so I'm asking you, do you ever feel like you're talking for the entire black race? The African-American race, I should say. No, I don't feel like, I mean, I think when you're speaking, it's all how people take it.

I'm representing how I see, what I see the problem is and what my experiences are. So I don't know if I'm speaking for I see what I see the problem is and what my experiences are. So I don't know if I'm speaking for the whole black race. I'm literally speaking for my experience and my study and what I'm doing, my due diligence. And I feel like as human beings, and when we talk about this, I think, and your whole thing is the mind, right? Your whole thing, everything you do is about the mind right and i think we and i think there's no limit to the amount of people that we can affect when we speak and i just don't think that i don't know if i'm speaking for all and i go back to the question i mean that's a real hard question honestly because i don't think i'm speaking for all african-americans

i think i'm speaking from my perspective and what i see fit from my history and what i've studied over time. I don't think I have the right answer because at the end of the day, because at the end of the day, I think that's the biggest thing right now is that we're dealing with, we're dealing with a lot of people who have been affected a lot of different ways, but don't know how to, you know, speak or don't know how to make it, don't know how to make other people understand the trauma that they've been experiencing. And now we've, now I think that's what I see a lot in America right now, is that everybody has a different America. Like my growing up in Louisiana was different from growing up in New York and Harlem as being

an African-American person. So everybody in the African-American experience has changed region by region. Finding Mastery is brought to you by Cozy Earth. Over the years, I've learned that recovery doesn't just happen when we sleep. It starts with how we transition and wind down. And that's why I've built intentional routines into the way that I close my day. And Cozy Earth has become a new part of that. Their bedding, it's incredibly soft, like next level soft. And what surprised me the most is how much it actually helps regulate temperature. I tend to run warm at night and these sheets have helped me sleep cooler and more consistently, which has made a meaningful difference in how I show up the next day for myself, my family, and our team here at Finding

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for 20% off your first order. That's calderalab, C-A-L-D-E-R-L-A-B.com slash findingmastery. So let's get into, I don't know, I just want to get your take on what you're seeing on our streets right now. You know, and, you know, I'm not going to hide behind this conversation. I mean, just asking questions. So I'll go first on this is that I'm seeing protests, which, you know, I love and I know you love.

I'm seeing a lot of pain and I'm also seeing opportunists that are looting and doing all types of stuff that is in my mind it's like man I feel like we're missing we're missing it right now and I can hear the other argument in my head it's like hey well listen like we need attention we need to say like we tried to take a knee it didn didn't work. And so we're going to, instead of taking a knee, we're going to break some windows and we're going to steal some stuff. And I'd like to, it's complicated. And I'd like to have that conversation with you because I wish that it was more attuned to Martin Luther King Jr., Dr. King. But I'm curious where you're coming from when you see it. When I see, like I said, I feel like from this perspective, I think the people in America who people would say that it's been really intense. And I think what's happening, people are awakened

and the limitations on people's mind, what to expect for their life and their liberty has really changed. And I think the youth of America are really upset with the opportunities. And I think a lot of this has to do with, I think the COVID-19 really unveiled a lot of stuff about America. And I think it really showed the racial disparities upon America. And it wasn't just African American people, it was Latin people, it was Asian people. It showed that there was a real racial divide in healthcare. There was a real racial divide in income. There was a real racial divide in the essential workers of America. And all those essential workers that worked in the grocery stores that did all those jobs were people of color. And I think what happened to within this

COVID-19, it also showed that when we're dealing with a capitalistic society, the number one thing that we realize in the capitalistic society is that humanity is not first. And we witnessed that. You see other countries shutting down because they were more worried about humanity and their human beings, which were the number one asset to their country. They were seen as valuable. In America, we opened up really fast and the human beings were not seen as valuable. And I think that started to take a toll on other people. And to see George Floyd getting killed, that even undermined and show even further that people, the people in America don't really have a real value. It's the economy first and then it's people.

And people are upset by that because the people are the ones who are working this economy. They're the ones who are making this economy be what it is. They were the essential workers. All the rich people were in their second homes, making sure that they were safe, you know. And so when we see George Floyd and we see this death, this is just, it's just intensifying the struggle and the history of the lack of humanity that has been possessed

in America. And I think when you look at these rioting, these looting, and all these things, people are just upset and they're angry. Yes, Dr. King was nonviolent, but also Dr. King was a spiritual man, and he understood that violence and chaos is a part of revolution sometimes, because sometimes people don't hear the voices of the people who are really yelling at them. We've closed off and we don't listen to them. Why now are white people paying attention? People have been screaming Black Lives Matter for years. We've watched Rodney King. We've watched Emmett Till. We've watched Martin Luther King. People say Martin Luther King was nonviolent, but Martin Luther King was killed by the government.

Malcolm X, Fred Hampton. These are black people who were speaking about these policies and everybody kept quiet about it. And we're dealing with that. We're dealing with a culture that has suffered from traumatic stress disorder for so long. And now people are upset when you look at it. I don't condone looting.

I don't think looting is the right job. I don't think that every police officer is wrong. But I do think the system that is supposed to be protecting people has not been held. And those people who are being police officers have been walking under and have been living under a different constitution than every other American. If any other country or any other city in America. If a person kills somebody, they're going to FaceTime. They're going to be held accountable. But for some reason, the police have not been held accountable. And people are upset about that when they watch somebody that look like them die. When I look at that George Floyd film, when I look at other Black people who are dying, when you see somebody getting choked to death, now we're not even talking about getting shot because when people get shot they live for moments choking

is a slow death we had time to see his humanity slowly start to diminish breath by breath we've seen a man scream for his mother and now if that's not childlike, when somebody screams for their mother, that is the ultimate, mama, mama. We've seen a man, what did he do? He put his knee down deeper. He screams for his kid. He's screaming for humanity. Every time he screams for his mother and his children, he's screaming to tell him that I'm a person who have other people who are connected to me that I wish to see again. May you take your foot off my neck, please. He didn't. He didn't turn over and did that. He still abide by the law. He could have turned over and kind of did anything else. But still, he still was still living under the Constitution that was supposed to protect him.

Then he screams again, I can't breathe. And what does that happen? Another officer says, stop resisting arrest. Resisting arrest says, stop being a human. Stop being Black. That's another terminology for it. And when you see a person slowly start to lose their life and be watching it, and be watching over and over, and it's constantly played over and over and over and over, that sense of numbness becomes anger.

And we're dealing with people who have been numb to death that are starting to be awake by the institution that has been oppressing them and making them watch people die. And any other time we see somebody, any hurricane we see somebody get and about to die, we put out a hand and we help them bring them back to life. But as a black man, this man was losing his life, his breath, screaming to his mama, he was back to life. But as a black man, this man was losing his life, his breath,

screaming to his mama. He was screaming to exist. And this man just kept on choking him to heat. The life force was no longer in him. And how does that make you feel as a white man? That makes me feel as a black man that my life does not matter. It makes me feel that I'm unsafe. It makes me feel that there's no place for me. There's no place I could run because my skin is a label for people to be scared. And when I'm dead, there's a justification because of the skin color. And that's what is coming down to it. And this isn't about anger coming from me. This is the realization of being a Black man in America and the historical context of what it is. And these facts cannot be miscued.

We can look at it every year and see the same amount of trauma being placed on Black lives and Brown people in America. Okay. It is so big and it's such a necessary conversation to have. If you could point people into three things to do, you know, like I would say, listen, you got to look at yourself. I'd pull on your thread about looking in the mirror and be really honest with your experience of being Caucasian, with your experience of being white. And I'd also say

the second step is to really spend time coming from dignity, from love, and from curiosity. So if we could come from those three places, we'd be better off as a society and we can cultivate those within ourselves and we can cultivate those within other people. And then the third tier of this is to come from a position of strength. See something, say something, feel something, say something, you know, like to actually take action on the insights that you hold. And then, you know, I don't take action on the insights that you hold. And then, you know, I don't know, I go to the next place. It's like, we've got to understand how to better put into position people of leaders

at the local level and at the national level. And I don't know, that's like, those are the only things I can think of, but like, I'm sure I've got some blind spots. So what would you want people to do to get to that action step? The right action, I should say. I think we have to take the governor trips off our minds. I think our minds have been limited and our imaginations have been limited. It's our inability to be able to, as human beings, to remove our own self-interest and put others first.

And I think we're looking at, it's clearly a history of that, right? We're dealing with people that our limits to our minds, our minds have been so limited to even think that there could possibly be harmony. And this is what we've been stolen upon. This is the synopsis of all the history that's happened. And I think it's important that we take those governor chips off our mind right now and see a world where you can see people being equal, where you can see a utopia. Don't limit yourself to saying, okay, the world could never be equal.

People could never have anything. I think the second thing is that we have to realize that every luxury that we get is suffering for somebody else. And as much as we don't have to realize that every luxury that we get is suffering for somebody else. And as much as we don't want to believe that, this is true. Every luxury that you have is a suffering for somebody else. If we look at our Apple phones, if we look at who we are as individuals, the things, the values and the luxuries that we have as an American society, that is just true. That's what I believe. I think the third thing that we have to do, and we can talk at the state and local level and all these in politics and that's important too. I think we have to really stop where we start to really stop feeding our

flesh and start to feed our spirit. When I say that, and if you look at anything, I think people are going to be like, this dude is just speaking crazy right now. When we feed our flesh, we feed our flesh quite often. We feed our flesh every single day.

We feed ourselves and we get nutrition and we stay healthy and we become this. The problem nutrition and we stay healthy and we we become this but the problem with the world right now is that we all become spiritually out of shape we can't connect to people spiritually anymore because we haven't had time to really um dig into ourselves spiritually and that's the greatest thing about um being at home right now and being in these cocoons it's the opportunity to go inside these cocoons and really come out as the, leaving as caterpillars and coming out as butterflies and ready to really fly into this

world. It's the opportunity to deal with self, right? To deal with the opportunity to connect spiritually and put ourselves back into spiritual, put ourselves into spiritually in shape and feed ourselves nutritiously with spiritual food. I don't know what each person's spiritual food is. I think everybody has a difference. Some people use religion. Some people use meditation. Some people use podcasts to connect to something that has them spiritually connected to other

people. And I think when we start to get spiritually in shape, we can connect to human humanity in a lot easier way than before because right now, we see barriers between our spirituality. We see division between spirituality. We see division between ourselves. Like, oh, that person's a Christian,

but he don't believe in the way I do. But when we become so spiritually in it and able, we're going to be able to really connect to other people and really feel that pain. Right now, we can't connect to people's pain because we can't hear that pain we can't feel that pain we can't see that pain we don't want to see that pain because when we see that pain it acknowledges that we're not doing anything i think we have to be able to connect to ourselves spiritually once more again so that's what i think michael it's a treat to spend time with you. It always is. And you remind me of the important things, you know, just because you think about it so often and it's so near and dear to your heart.

So I just want to say thank you. I want to drive people to where they can find you. And I want to leave you with a thought and a quote and see if you want to respond to it. But the thought is, this is something that I just came across, so I'm going to read it here. Let there be such oneness between us that when one cries, the other tastes salt. It just grabs me. I think when you say that one cries and the other feels the salt, I feel like that's the spiritual inheritance that I'm talking about,

that connection to the other person that when you see George Floyd, you hurt him because you're a mother. You're not hurting because he's black, but he's a human being. And I think once we connect to everybody, every human being, life that has every human being having value to their life, it doesn't matter they're homeless that doesn't mean that they don't have value it doesn't matter if they're trans doesn't mean that they don't have value even if they're gay they don't have value it doesn't mean just because they're not what you are doesn't mean they don't have value and when we can connect the value of every human life having value when he, we're going to taste salt because we're connected

to his humanity. And I think, and this is what I believe, that a gothy love, there's different types of love that are important. And when we can really have that love for other people, we can really transcend what our own self-interest, it will be better for the group. Because as much as we want to say economy, the money is the most important thing, the real value on the planet is the human beings. It is the human connection that we have on a daily basis.

And when we are home and people are suffering from not having human interaction, that's telling you that it's important that as a human being, we're tribal, we're village people, we take a village to raise a community or community to raise a village to raise a child. That's a true statement. And it takes a village and a community to really feel the pain of another human. And I think that's really what it comes down to. And I think that's a great term. And I think that's a great quote, because it really sums up where we're at now in the faith of the world. The faith of the world is at a tipping scale. We're tipping off between revolution and anarchy

and we're dealing with the normal idea of being a human being. The brutal side of being a human and the moral side, that constant battle between the both. Being a savage and being more moral and an intellectual and having those thought processes

for other people and seeing the value of that. The savage side of us says, hey, I need to survive. And in any way, I need to kill to survive. I'll cut your leg off to survive. I'll do anything. But the moral side says there's enough for everybody to eat. There's enough for all of us to build houses. There's enough for all of us to have a safer world. There's enough for all of us to build houses. There's enough for all of us to have a safe world. There's enough for all of us to have that. And that's what it really comes down to. You know, there's a last quick note here is that as you're talking about that, I bought the narrative early on from COVID and the pandemic that it's a war. And then I thought, what are we doing? A war with Mother Nature?

You know, and we're using that no, we're using jail terms, lockdown, isolation. We even are naming a virus COVID. It sounds like cell block, whatever, you know, quarantine. These are right angles that we're trying to apply to the curves of nature. And it's wrong. It through relation, you know, know this i say this all the time like through relationships we become through our relationship with ourself with others with mother nature with your spiritual frameworks through relationships we become and our relationship is so off access right now that um we're seeing the throes of how bad it is. And I just want to, I wanted to just spend time with you, Mike.

And so I appreciate you. I appreciate what you stand for, what you're working to create. And, you know, where can people stay connected? I know you've got a fun podcast. You've got a book. You've got social activation that you're doing. So where can people find you?

You can find me on Moses can people find you you can find me on mosesbrad72 you can find me on twitter or whatever i don't really use twitter but instagram i'm on there sometimes but yeah you can check out our podcast called mouthpiece we talk about it's me and my wife we talk about relationships we talk about living in america raising our kids we talk about race we talk about politics we just talk about the idea of just being a human being and living in this world in 2020. So you can catch me on all those things. We usually have – we're usually up to date every week.

So check us out. Okay, Mike. Thank you for your time. And I'm wishing you and your family the absolute best. Thank you, Mike. I appreciate you having me. I always like your perspective. I always thought that you were always forced enough to think differently

within the sports world. I think the mind and stuff in the sports world always felt like having those conversations with you and being on the Seahawks, there was a sense that there was more space for our brains to expand. And I always felt that in sports, there was always this limited mindset of what we were and who we are and

what we were here to do as a chief. And I honestly believe that with more people doing what you're doing within the sports world, and it doesn't matter of color, this is another race. It just matters that you were forcing the status quo to change the ideas of what they're supposed to be pushing these players to do. These are men that are supposed to be turned into men, not supposed to be turned into product. And I appreciate those conversations that we had.

I'm so thankful to be on this podcast. Appreciate you, Mike. All right. Thank you so much for diving into another episode of Finding Mastery with us. Our team loves creating this podcast and sharing these conversations with you. We really appreciate you being part of this community. And if you're enjoying the show, the easiest no-cost way to support is to hit the subscribe

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