Finding Mastery with Dr. Michael Gervais - Jermaine Jones, German-American Soccer Player

Episode Date: July 24, 2019

This week’s conversation is with Jermaine Jones, a German-American soccer player who played as a defensive midfielder for most of his career.Born in Frankfurt, Germany to an American father and German mother, he came up through the German club system and represented Germany at the U21 and senior level.He later filed for a switch to the United States making his debut in 2010 and played in the 2014 FIFA World Cup.Playing in multiple countries has given Jermaine a unique perspective on what makes a great soccer player and that’s something we touch on in this conversation.What is it that makes the rest of the world more competitive than the United States when it comes to Men’s soccer?Jermaine believes it comes to down to embracing pressure and being resilient.This is one of the reason’s he recently started up Define Sports and Entertainment Agency, focused on developing American soccer talentJermaine is real, he’s got an edge, and I think that stands out in this conversation.In Jermaine’s words: “I just want to be myself. I don't want to switch, I don't want to change for anybody. I want to be myself, I want to be respected, I want to give people the respect they deserve ... to treat them how I want to be treated.”_________________Subscribe to our Youtube Channel for more powerful conversations at the intersection of high performance, leadership, and meaning: https://www.youtube.com/c/FindingMasteryGet exclusive discounts and support our amazing sponsors! Go to: https://findingmastery.com/sponsors/Subscribe to the Finding Mastery newsletter for weekly high performance insights: https://www.findingmastery.com/newsletter Download Dr. Mike's Morning Mindset Routine! https://www.findingmastery.com/morningmindsetFollow us on Instagram, LinkedIn, and X.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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And they ask questions. And most of the best coaches with the best teams, they're not really coaches. They're mentors. They're just trying to see the human beings and try to keep everybody on the same page by coaching if you coach Real Madrid you have the best players in the world so what do you want to teach them to

juggle a ball no but you have to teach them to not be 25 babies you have to teach them be 25 good human beings who protect them on the field who who support teammates if you're not playing and all that stuff that shows how good you as a coach all right welcome back or welcome to the finding mastery podcast i'm michael gervais and by trade and training i'm a sport performance psychologist, as well as the co-founder of Compete to Create. And the whole idea behind these conversations is to learn, is to learn from people who are committed to the path of mastery, to the people that want to understand how to unlock the nuances of their craft. And what we're doing is digging to

understand their psychological framework, which is how they make sense of the world, how they make sense of themselves in it. And we also want to understand what they're searching for, that deep stuff, as well as the mental skills that they've used to build and refine their craft. Finding Mastery is brought to you by LinkedIn Sales Solutions. In any high-performing environment that I've been part of, from elite teams to executive boardrooms, one thing holds true. Meaningful relationships are at the center of sustained success. And building those relationships, it takes more than effort. It takes a real caring about your people. It takes the right tools, the right information at the right

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if you're trying to hit your daily protein goals with something seamless, I'd love for you to go check them out. Get a free variety pack, a $25 value and 10% off for life when you head to davidprotein.com slash finding mastery. That's David, D-A-V-I-D, protein, P-R-O-T-E-I-N.com slash finding mastery. Now this week's conversation is with Jermaine Jones, a German-American soccer player who played as a defensive midfielder for most of his career. He was born in Frankfurt, Germany to an American father and a German mother. He came up through the German club system and represented Germany at the U21 and senior level. He later switched to the U.S. He filed and switched to the U.S.,

making his debut in 2010, and he played in the 2014 FIFA World Cup. Playing in multiple countries has given him a unique perspective on what makes a great soccer player. What's the difference between the US system and other systems? So there's a global perspective to this conversation. And in Jermaine's eyes, he believes it comes down to embracing pressure and being resilient, which is a good relationship psychologically between those two. I mean, he's right about that. And this is one of the reasons he's recently started up Define Sports and Entertainment Agency, and their focus on developing American soccer talent. Jermaine is real. He's got an edge about him, no doubt about it. And it definitely jumps out of this conversation. In his words, I just want to be myself. I don't want to switch. I don't want to change for anybody. I want to be myself and I want to be respected. I want to give people the respect they deserve to treat them how I want to be treated. And with that, let's jump right into this conversation with Jermaine Jones.

Jermaine, how are you? I'm doing good. How are you doing? Thanks for coming in. Thanks for having me yeah so you have had a very opinionated um very thoughtful very aggressive career in professional soccer and you've played across the planet and uh you've really made a dent in the field so congratulations on your body of work thank you yeah thanks a lot you say that humbly. Does that seem like a surprise to you, to say what I just said?

I would say I hear it a couple of times, yeah. But it's still kind of always a surprise, definitely. You've recently retired. Yeah. So we'll get to that later. But if we go all the way back, what was it like growing up um i would say we i had kind of a good childhood grew up in frankfurt and um i would say like around age seven six seven my my my mom and dad split up and um my dad went back to the states in our state with my mom in germany and then i think it's it's it's it's i would say like kind of a rough a rough area where I grew up then and um where we moved in um but I always have like this two parts you know people

say oh it's a rough area and it's not easy to to come out of it and but I always say that's my home right that's that's where I got my best friends and I'm still best friends with them and I grew up in a in in I feel like in an amazing area you know this is where I learned soccer and um in in I look still back and I and I say I love it okay so I the reason I asked like what it was like growing up because what we get to see from tv or from whatever is the slick this amazing performance that people do whether it's you know your sport or someone else's sport it's highly polished and sometimes it's raw and there's like you know there's some rugged elements to it but it is highly skilled and the context of where you came from is really

important so when you say it was tough like rough is that the word used? What does that mean to you? That means for me that the areas, there's a lot of people maybe have no jobs and maybe people have jobs and they're going a different path, right? And going into jail and going out of jails. And so this is like where maybe comes back, what do you say to them? If you see now how I play on the fields,

it's like always, I always say like I play not only for myself or for my family, I play for the people, you know, especially where I come from, that I made it out and I'll be one of them who made it out. And now I want to give something back. I want to earn that jerseys. I want to earn to be in the stadiums where I am, you know, and give them something back that they believe and see there's an opportunity to make it out, you know. And if Jermaine Jones makes it out to a World Cup, if he plays for Eintracht Frankfurt, plays all over the world, why not?

I can do it, you know. And that's how I lived with, you know, and I always praise it for myself. It's like, if I go on the field, hard work. You can have a bad day, bad game, whatever. But if you put everything in heart and soul, that's the least what everybody wants to see. Did that come from early days or is that something that you realized was useful for you for motivation, purpose, meaning as you became more of an adult? No, I think it started early days um uh people who know me we played like on on the street we took the trash cans and make our own

goals and played like five against five and you know i always hated to lose you know i was i wanted to win and especially then growing up without a dad being their oldest sibling of five kids and um you have you had five yeah so i had like four more in um i was the oldest one and mom was single running the show yeah so she was running the show she was trying to to give us the best life we can have and um she i think she did an amazing job and um but still as the oldest one i was then the dad you know I had to switch on and help out to to to to to protect my siblings and my mom in in different ways you know and um and then on the opposite side I had this own dream you know I was a young kid too and I wanted to be professional and um but that's that's that's I think that's the part what made me switch then always and say okay if I step on fields and

doesn't matter if it's like back in the days in Bonamese where I grew up and played, or at the end playing a World Cup in Brazil. For me, it was always put everything on the line, fight as hard as possible, be a winner, give the people back that they can say, yeah, he did everything he can do. And that's what I want to try to deconstruct

is did you have that thought that I represent my town at an early age or did that come later um of course I would say it it was always always it was always there yeah but I I would say like I played already back in the days I was the it sounds weird but I was the best player in my always in my in my age in when I played for SFR Bonamers we played against different towns next to us in and we knew we go all to the same school so I always represented Bonamers so when we next Monday we meet up on school I was the one everybody's like hey JJ he won for Bonamers the team you know the points in them and of course that's why i said like i i think i was i had that always already with the young age so you grew up early right you were representing more than

yourself at an early age so you didn't have that self-absorbed narcissistic way right so you it was always something bigger and if you deconstruct the concept of purpose it has and purpose and meaning is difficult for people like that's a real difficult challenge for people And if you deconstruct the concept of purpose, it has, and purpose and meaning is difficult for people. Like that's a real difficult challenge for people. But if you deconstruct it, you're doing something that matters to you. You're doing something that's bigger than you. And it's something down the road. Like it's like time bound, you know, future bound. So you had all three of those at a young age. Yeah. Right had the future goals you're doing something bigger than you soccer um global football and it was um meaningful yeah right it mattered yeah it mattered a lot why did it matter were you looking for money attention fame

were you looking to get your family out were you looking for unlocking the way it felt to get better were you looking for camaraderie i would say like i look to be honest i look to get my family out of it you know and then especially get myself out of it i don't want it to i don't want to be there you know i don't want it to i wanted to have money i wanted to have a good life and in special playing then in in youth academies where you can see there come kids in they get driven in and the mom is there you know and then your mom is really never there she's coming I think they're the

first game you ever played I think in age of 17 18 when you made a professional you know and before she never really see a game that that stuff would hurt you know but you the

only the way your mom never saw a game before age because because we had not the money that she can travel out there and see it you know so that's that's that's that's issues where you have to handle, especially if you come out of these areas, you know. But I pointed never the finger on her and said something that, why, you know.

But for me, it's just the point like I was in that situation, I always fight it and said, okay, I will make it out that she has a chance to come one day. So how many kids do you have? Five. You have five. was fight it and said okay i will make it out that she has a chance to come one day so you how many kids do you have five you have five and you have you're now giving them what you didn't have yeah i get confused by this because i didn't have we're fine growing up you know like i didn't have to think about money or food i had no idea how much my parents had or made and it was never an issue and it was you know good old middle class upbringings, right? So we didn't, we didn't struggle, but we didn't have a lot. Okay.

When I say a lot, I'm talking about the type of money that you're exposed to. Okay. So now you have significantly more than your family had and one of the things that you just said that made you great was the hard environment the purpose uh that you carried and the care for others right and then that that drive came from there so how are you doing with your kids because i think about i think about it like in different ways but very akin to how I'm raising mine as well. I would say, who knows me, I love my kids. I do everything for them. I always wanted to have the opportunity to give them the life I don't have,

but I think I'm still hard on them. So I'm not giving them everything for free. It's still, they have to own the go-to soccer teams and play. Of course, then the dad is Jermaine Jones. He's sitting out there and watching. But that's the pressure what they have to live already. But they have the new shoes. They have the new cleats.

They don't get every time new shoes. When they have a birthday or something, then they pick or Christmas. I think every parent is doing this, but I'm not giving them every two weeks the new shoes or new jerseys. No, that's not how i'm letting him grow up so what are the values that you're focusing on my values is like more the same what my mom did like we have maybe a different outcome on money yes but my values is more giving him the same love and in teaching him that at the end money out there gives you maybe freedom but isn't is important in life you know especially in this young age so the research is around 60 70 000

you know um in america that those that make above that amount of money that does not increase happiness and joy yeah that's right yeah now below that there's struggles right it's hard to flourish in life when you have to think about food and you have to think about shelter. I think what it gives you, money gives you freedom, right? Is that how you look at it? Yeah, it gives you freedom. But it doesn't give you... Freedom to...

You can wake up and you don't have the pressure. But it doesn't give you joy. It doesn't give you love or something, you know, this is the thing that I'm sorting out is that that pressure to go work, that pressure created incredible drive for you. And I think you'd, you'd nod your head to say, yeah, work ethic is the thing that, that gets us to be able to do something extraordinary. So then how do we help our children? How are you helping your children work hard but it's what i'm saying like you you give them the freedom and kind of where we we talk about like i went to a public school now they're going to a private school right but there's there's different ways to to to keep them

balanced that they're not okay not everything is like for free right and um i have to work hard too to to get stuff so it's it's at end of day, it's up to the parents how they teach it, you know. And what I said before, for me, it's more important to have the freedom from my side that I know I can help them out if something goes wrong. But more important is like respect, you know. It doesn't matter if you have money or you come from money. It's like respect the people, like be lovely and all that's for me more important. So and if you go with this, be hungry for more, you know, it's not like I'm maybe your dad, but I cannot help you on the soccer field.

Like you have to do it. So, and this is how I try to teach them. Like at the end, it doesn't matter who is your dad. It's at the end comes down to you. It doesn't matter what you do. If he plays baseball or they play soccer or they go skateboarding, it's, and then I always try to tell them if they come and they say,

they're looking up to me, of course, but I always try to tell them, I want you to be better than me at one point, and you have the talent. So don't look at me. Try to be the best you can be. Are you sending that message, be your best or be the best? No, be your best. It gets so confusing to people i ask that question a lot and i think it's politically correct to say no be your best but secretly i

think people want their children or they want themselves to be better than others what even if it's not the best they just want to be better than other people i think but I think it's wrong. I don't see it this way. I have twins, boys, and they play soccer. And one, really, he goes on the field and he knows always, he makes for himself the best he can do. And the other one, he wants to always score more goals than everyone, and then he thinks he was the best. So then I have to explain to him that maybe he was not the best in that game,

but he scored a lot of goals. That means in the moment it looks good. But maybe there's another guy who scores the same goals but runs more, then he's better for the team. So he will play as a coach, right? And there's like outcomes. Like you just have to explain it to him that they understand it, you know. And for me it's always, and this i said for myself is going on the field and being myself being the best for myself then the outcome is let the people think what what is the best right they they will judge you and say oh he was the best but if i go out and i say i

want to be the best in the world why i put the pressure that that high like well i don't know i think that that's something that people are raised with that thought and they see people like you and they're like well i want to be like him you know they see the stars of their favorite sport and they're like i want to be like one day i'll be like him one day i could be better than him right is a natural thought but you're suggesting very clearly that no no every day I'm working to figure out how to be my best. Exactly. Right.

From a technical, physical, mental, maybe even spiritual place. Like I'm figuring out how to be my best. Okay. I want to deconstruct all that. But first, before we go to that, what was it like? You didn't have, your dad wasn't around. No. And he was, if, if I have the reports, right, he was involved in drug trafficking,

and there was some sort of ring that he was involved in. Is that correct? Yeah. And so when did you learn that that was why your dad was gone? Because he was also in the military. Yeah. So what was the discrepancy there for you? To all respect to my mom, my mom never mentioned one word.

So I heard it when I was 25, when I met him after 20 years. What did you think happened? Just the split up. Like my mom and my dad, okay, I had no touch to my dad, but my mom really kept it clean and she don't wanted to have a bad word about him. So she said like, we split up. There's still love. We're still in touch. We talk and everything.

And so then as a kid, six, seven years old, you just move on, you know. You know there's one part that's missing. And you move on. And maybe that small part of missing, I took over to be like, okay, I have no dad. Now I'm the dad. I have to take care of my siblings or of my mom and and that was the drive what pushed me you know and um to be honest the first time i started talking with him was my my ex-wife she she she called me at the night i think we were before a game

and she it was my birthday and she's like, somebody will call you. That's my birthday present for you. And so she went and found. Yeah. So she found him and she knew that I was looking for him a while, but I never got in touch. So you wanted to meet him? I wanted to meet him. And what did you want from that? What were you looking for?

I just wanted the closure. You know, I wanted to know what happened real. Just like I had the one side for my mom, but I wanted to hear the side of him you know because you had kids at that point yes right so you're so you were probably wondering how could my dad not be around exactly like i have the infinite love for my children how what happened is that am i putting words in your mouth no no that's exactly how it is like you have kids you you want to know especially me what i said before i love my kids definitely in them in now knowing my dad left what is the reason why you leave your kids you know like you don't love us there's what was the reason you know did you struggle at all as a kid like wondering am i not lovable am i not important enough did you entertain any no to be honest like never never

that was not my mom made a real good job with that she took care of she gave us love she did everything you know but um but i think it's always like the issues between a man and a dad or kids or boy and the dad is like there's a part you're missing right you you're not always going to your mom with every so you you need a dad sometimes where did you get that parenting, that fatherly type parenting? I had an uncle. Uncle? Yeah, uncle from... Mom's side?

He was from my mom's sister, the husband. So he was a good friend of my dad. And he wasn't brought back in the days too, no matter what happened. But he came back or he stayed in Germany. So from there on, if I needed something, he was the one who told me, like, hey, stop it or chill a little bit. You didn't get in trouble?

I got in trouble, yeah. You did? A couple of times. A couple of times, to be honest. Okay, so what happened? Yeah. No, we did, like, stuff, like, of course, street stuff, you know and yeah was that for like real reasons like um i needed money or i wanted the thing for i can fill in lots of stories or is it the thrill of it no it was just just being cool yeah hang out with the boys and they were doing different stuff

in um so i went out night lives you mistraining sessions and all kind of stuff. Like just a young boy hang out with the boys and got in mistakes. And yeah, till I got a call and then people told me like, if you keep going, your career is done. So you push right up into the edge. Oh yeah, I was completely at the edge. Finding Mastery is brought to you by Momentus. When it comes to high performance, whether you're leading a team, raising a family, pushing physical limits, or simply trying to be better today than you were yesterday, what you put in your body matters. And that's why I trust Momentus.

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18. 18? Yeah. And why'd you wait until 18 what was the significance um i don't know to be honest i have no idea why i wait but i i remember back in the days nobody really had tattoos and um when i started coming up and then did the first one on my leg and then started doing my arms and everything people were like oh yeah that's a perfect ghetto boy like that was my image the ghetto ghetto boy. And now he gives us the right picture for that,

what we already thought about him, you know. But yeah, I would say I'm a risk taker in most of the time. I'm not a follower. I would say I'm taking the risk and then people follow me. Well, that's leadership and following. But risk taking, you're saying that like you'll take the risk. There's five different types of risk. There's financial risk.

Do you take financial risk? No. Social risks, which is like saying the thing and doing the thing that others won't do. You're high there. Yeah. There's physical risk, which is like, you know, putting your body in a risky situation. You're high there. Yeah.

Yeah. There's emotional risk which is saying the difficult thing that leaves you vulnerable yeah yeah yeah so you're high on at least on those no i'm high yeah i'm definitely especially with if you say like putting your body on the line and all that stuff i think you can see it over the shows in your game yeah over career like what i had like i had a couple broken bones bones in, in my body. And, um, then, yeah, I would say like the only thing is like taking risk with, with money. That's, that's not me. Why, um, I, I have, I have kids, you know, and there's, there's not a time to take the risk.

And then the last is moral risk, like doing things that are borderline unethical or moral, you know, uh, as a general rule. Yeah. I think, you know, the risk is too, if you're a public figure and you speak up, you know, you open a door where people can start looking for like, what is behind the scenes, you know? You've spoke up about the men's national team coaching. You've been really aggressive there. Yeah.

Yeah. But you also say like, I'm not going against American soccer. Like you want the most for America. It sounds like when i listen to you you want the best for american soccer but you've got a real strong point of view that like we're not grooming and raising and developing talent properly exactly how many countries have you lived in um i wasn't how many countries have you played for three three different countries so you've seen three different systems yeah international systems and where i can't place your accent do you get that a lot yeah a lot i'm actually pretty good with it but i can't like you've been influenced by a lot of different dialect yeah i i don't know a lot of people come and say like where where you from

you know and i and i always say like german half german american and they're like no it's not really german but i don't know i lived in turkey then i lived in england been here back and forth had a house here since 2010 so and then german yeah i don't know you speak you grew up speaking yeah i speak fluent german yeah any any other languages no no trying to speak english do you speak do you speak to your mom in german yeah i speak with my kids german too yeah okay oh you do so they have both yeah they understand they're talking back okay okay so what is the right way to develop young talent you know um i would say like to to to to give the kind of pressure, you know, what I had.

I had it in a different way. But if you see coming to all the systems in Europe, you start with the young age living under pressure. Like you did in general. Like if you make it into an academy in Germany, you live under pressure. It's like if I go up now from I started when i was 14 with frankfurt i make it up to what 13 and then i made it to the professional team i was 17 and a half it's just two people who make it and if you see how many kids stay on the street why they don't make the next jump to the next stage it's it's it's pressure on so you say pressure is a good thing

of course okay so i was i did a little bit of like a tour if you will met the staff over tottenham and beautiful facility yeah but boy are they like they're like listen here's the divide here's the here's where the pros you know and this is where they eat and this is where they work and this is the field they're on this is the entrance they come on and then the academy have like this whole different and it's all nice it's really nice you have you been through the that club i've been to the first team yeah yeah did you play with them or just like no i played against them and everything yeah and but it was a divide and you're saying that only a couple moved through the ranks properly and that's embedded pressure

yeah okay so let's ask let's try to get your framework. What are the mechanisms to deal with pressure? Well, like how does a human maximize their experience when there's pressure? Um, you know, there, there's, I would say like there's two different kinds of pressures, like the pressure, what do you let get into you? Right. And then the pressure you need to perform, you know? And for me, it was always like the way to say,

developing my kind of pressure to say for myself, I want to be the best every time. And that doesn't mean only in the games. It means everywhere what I do, I want to be the best. That's the pressure I give for myself. And then I have the pressure from outside where other people see me, right? But I think as a young age, as a young player,

is it important to know, okay, this is my goal. I want to go. And then don't having just mom and dad always being there and like, oh, you're the best, you're the best. No, you know, it's like sometimes there have to be two like, okay, this is what you have to do. You have to change. And especially in Europe, is it different than in america if i see i go to youth themes

here in watch them play the mom and everything are sitting outside they have cut orange juice orange and like you know it's like a it's like a festival but then if you go into europe most of the kids they have to go alone mom and dad don't go to the train or training or games so it's just a coach and there's pressure on. They're like, you want to be professional? Play better. Do this. Do that.

It's way harder than it is here. I coached here in U19. We are a SoCal team. And I was surprised. If you started going against them, they're kind of breaking completely. They were like, oh. The kids you're talking about. So the kids were breaking. When you say going against them, you starting like going against them they're kind of breaking completely they were like oh the kids you're talking about yeah so the kids were when you say going against them you mean like in general like talking getting louder getting loud and tell them a little bit like this is not right

this is you have to do it and you know and and then you can see that break completely where they live in malibu area they go surf in the morning like everything is like nice and cool but then you have kids who come from burbank or from from ventura like hispanic kids where they know how it is like to fight and like they're going in so you go hard on them and instead they're breaking they're saying okay i'm showing him i want to show him how good i am you know in, in this kind of pressure is, I think it's important, especially for every kid. You flipped your model a little bit from be my best to be the best. So when we're talking earlier, like, yeah, be the, be my best. And then you flipped it eloquently where it's like, no, no, no, I'm going out to be the best. And so how do, how do you match those two? Cause you flipped them. So how do you, how do you do that?

This is what i'm saying like at the end at the end it's always you start with yourself right this is the first thing you can change so if i go out and say i want to be the best for myself go out and do it and then if you do the best for yourself let other people okay so maybe did i hear it wrong when you say i want to be the best you're saying the best for myself yes you're not saying i want to be the best, you're saying the best for myself. Yes. You're not saying I want to be better than Joey. No, I want to be the best for myself. Okay, what if Joey, I don't know, in your position, what the most important stats are, but he's really owning those stats

and he's got the starting position. You're not trying to be better than him. You're trying to literally get better at some sort of mechanical part of the game. Exactly, yeah. It makes no sense to look to somebody in our world. I've been in this position, right? Where I always have to sit on the bench, whereas maybe somebody is better than me, but I have different talents than him. So I have to work on all my talents to get better that the coach maybe sees a part of me can help the team.

If you were to pick the top three things let's let's do psychological things right now the top three psychological skills or attributes that you'd want to install in the next generation of kids what would they be wow i would say like be strong. That's one. Be strong. Then believe.

Believe in himself. You know? And then what else? It's tough. I would put effort up there. i would put like a ridiculous motor yeah and i love i love those two i love the two that you just mentioned but somehow there's got to be like this relentless approach to figuring things out and i'm not saying hard work right like i i don't what i do i think is really challenging but challenging, but it doesn't feel like work because there's love in it.

There's curiosity. I would go maybe with the dirt will be more like love it. Love what you do. Like find what you love. So if you could install three things, you'd say go on a ridiculous exploration to find exploration, to find what you love. Be strong about what principles or what would you say be strong about be strong in that what do you do like believe in it what does that mean to you in general like if you go out like we say like love right love is like if i go in love this stuff what

i do i i do it with fun and then i can be the best what i do right then be strong is going on no matter what comes against you be strong enough to take it while you love it so you come back to the love what do you do right in and then there was like believe in yourself yeah and then believe in yourself is like all the two points love and be strong and at the end believe is like believe in in in in yourself so if you can handle the two in the in the front already you go out there and you believe and you you be the best you know yeah you're actually pulling on one of a self-determination theory is one of the kind of i don't grounded theories in motivation which is have a high competence in what you do, like develop competency in your craft.

The other is have a sense of autonomy, which is, you know, make your own choices, like figure it out for yourself. And the third variable is, um, have great relationships, you know, like be somebody to others. And so while you didn't hit those three, you're, you're hitting on something that is, um, well syncopated with them. Is that like really believe in yourself, right? Which is so that you know that you matter. And that's where relationships, autonomy, and, um, what's the third one? A competence come in play, like know that you matter in that way. That's interesting. Okay. All right, cool. So, so you would drop those three in and then while you were playing, what was the hardest thing about playing for you? For me, the hardest thing, I would say the hardest thing was really belief. Belief. You know, sometimes you, you grow up and you, you play to all the rankings and you're always like the best talent, right? I've been to all the stuff. Not everyone is, but you talent, right? I've been to all the stuff.

Yeah. Not everyone is, but you were, but you were highly ranked most of the time. So, yeah. So in, in,

in now you come into a point where you struggle maybe, and you still have the belief that you're the best in that, you know, in, in that's the toughest point. Like, how do you hold up mechanically? What do you do when you know that you've had great success?

Other people see that potential in you and you, but you're not executing. It's not working right. Yeah, this is the point where you come back to the struggle, right? Where you're still a young kid, where you're starting believing, or thinking about, maybe I'm not that good. Maybe I cannot handle that pressure. Maybe it's too much for me. Where's the way out?

I think that plays in where family comes. cannot handle that pressure maybe it's too much for me where's the way out you know and i think that plays in where family comes my mom my best friends like coming and give you that advice and be like no man you you're good like what are you doing like stop this stop that and focus on that and it will be good you know where do you get distracted um i would say like back in the days i got distracted by hanging out too much with my friends and partying and going out being like a young boy and um and almost throw everything out of the window what i had oh so you again you got really close oh yeah i was i was really close i'll tell you um i had uh i had a broken fifth tibia in my foot and um and i signed a mega a big deal with uh by a liverkusen back in this where i don't know dimming up berbatov and a lot

of big players played and um and i went over there as one of the the biggest talents and i played with uh donovan came over and he played there too. In the same age. And after, I would say like half season, coach came and said, I don't think it makes sense. And I was like, what do you mean? And he's like, I don't think it makes sense to stay. We have top strikers and Donovan left already too. And I was like, okay, so what does that mean? And he's like, I i'm done and he's like

yeah you go to the second team so i trained with the second team and everything and i was like i had my homeboys like six guys with me living with me that we were i'll tell you we were better in the nightlife than i was on the field you know in uh in in when he told me that i went back home and my friends are all hyped up want to go out out and everything, I'm like, guys, I need a minute. I'm not in the first team anymore. I'm in the second team. And they're like, what do I mean? And I'm like, yeah, coach came and said, I'm not playing.

And I'll tell you, I made amazing money over there and everything. I was a young kid, driver, Mercedes, and everything. I had a couple of cars, and I really felt like I made it already. And then I called my agent, and my agent was like, yeah, I heard it already. They released you. They want you to go on a big contract. And I was like, so who do you think is picking me? And he's like, I don't think anybody will pick you with that contract.

What do you have? That's like a big-time contract. And I was like, so what do we do? And he's like, yeah. How old were you at this time? I was 23. And then he's like, let me figure out a couple of stuff. So then he reached back and he said, there's one coach who wants to meet you in the

city in in in germany in kern and i was like okay and then i met this guy friedem funkel he's a coach of back in this he was a coach of frankfurt and um i left frankfurt with all the troubles what i said before going party and all that stuff and they moved me to leverkusen while i was thinking it's more like a quiet area and it's not going on a lot it's just a a good club in but i moved my whole boys with me and we still keep going yeah so that's that's there's a thought in you might recognize this if you really want to change you got to change your playpen your playmates your play toys you got you have to change things right not only just change the way that you think but you've got to impact your environment as well yeah but you didn't at that point no you

just brought the party with you exactly yeah and i took them with me and then i had to do some say like i had to really go to the lines to to figure out one more step and you're done you know and um so when when i met this coach and we were sitting down and he's like, I want to get you back to Frankfurt. But right now, nobody wants you back there. Why they don't know what they're getting into. And I was like, oh, man. Did you think it was over or did you have this other thought like, it's going to work out for me? It always does.

No, I would figure it out. The minute I had the conversation with this coach, I was thinking it's over. Like your whole professional career. Yeah. Because you're overpaid now and with a reckless reputation. Yeah. And I was thinking, really, that's over. Special.

So you were not a true sportsman at that point. You were more like a halftime sportsman, halftime partier. Yeah. I enjoyed my life. I was young and hang out with my friends and wanted to be out. Okay. So knowing that, what did you learn from you know in in that moment i learned that the wrong decision can can can damage your whole outcome of your life you know and especially then after this conversation with this day with the

with the coach i moved back to frankfurt and had for the time had no team in um you know i was talking with my mom talking with my best friends, and trying to figure out what's going on. And then at one point, the coach called me back and said, if you promise to me you don't step your feet to one club here in Frankfurt, I push you in to get back. And I'm like, okay, I promise to you I will never step into a club. I will concentrate just on soccer, be the best I can be,

help the team to go from the second division to the first division. And he's like, okay, let's do it. Did you think you could be successful doing that? I always give me the pressure. I always, I think people who know me know I love to go maybe sometimes to smaller clubs and help them to develop getting big and have the pressure on my shoulder to know okay everybody's looking and thinking like why is jermaine jones going there

i'm going there for a reason i wanted to show you i can be an impact to change something you know and that was with frankfurt too when i got back there we made it up first came up to the first league i think the first time i got our party was with the coach to celebrate that we went up to the first league, I think the first time I got out to party was with the coach to celebrate that we went up to the first league. And I stayed there. He's a big impact now in my whole career. You know, he decided to put me from striker back in midfield, where I got then a way bigger contract back in Schalke, where I stayed for a long time. So the impact at all, I think, was that I had to really go to the, to that line

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because I get us, I get this openness, this vulnerability, this emotional part to you. But then I also, it feels like you're leading with your head in this conversation. So when I just say that to you, what happens? I'm thinking about it. So do you think more than you feel? You know, growing up, there's situations you have a different outcome of feeling, right? And then you have to start thinking about it before. So you feel first, then think?

Yeah. Would you call yourself emotionally switched on? Like you feel a lot and you understand feelings well? Yeah. Over my whole career, I think it's like a lot of... I'm a guy, I would say I talk a lot for my heart. But that's who i am you know in but still like growing up now i have to start thinking about more stuff what are you craving most from your emotional part of yourself like what what is it that you're searching for and craving what do you mean what is it in your center the essence of who you are

right your emotional being we could say it in a lot of different ways what is it that you want most my emotional i would say like most of the time is like i just i want to be myself you know i want i don't want to switch i don't want to change for anybody i want to be myself i want to switch. I don't want to change for anybody. I want to be myself. I want to be respected. I want to give people the respect they have to, you know, what I want, how they treat me. So it starts with a commitment to authenticity and then it moves out to respect, respect others and I'll respect them and they respect me. Okay. So let's pause there for a minute. What does being authentic mean?

What do you mean? What does that mean to you? I get asked that a lot because I, I, I have a strong value as well of authenticity. And so I get asked like, what does that mean? Like it's overused. Almost people are tired of hearing of it. And I, I I'm lost by it because it's a daily decision. It's a minute to minute decision to be authentic or not. So when people say like, they've all, they've heard it too much. I'm totally flabbergasted by it. Cause it's like, you can choose right now. You could choose to be authentic or not authentic in this conversation. Right. And each, each question or each thought that you have, you can go the path that's closer

to authentic or a little bit further away.'s safer yeah would you agree with that yeah but you know for me it's like i always been open you know where there's a lot of people that come from the same background and maybe they go the same they go to the same what i went through you know and of course i have to be careful i have kids now what i say sometimes you know okay so actually i just read this about you that you case you're out on the edge taking risks using your big brain of yours you know offering opinions and um coming after people so to speak you know like the united states has some i don't know if that's if i'm saying it fairly or not but you know there's a little bit of that in there right am i not saying it fairly but but the point of this was was not that the point was that

your kids said to you hey it's hard being your son did I have that wrong you're looking at me like I'm like I've got three heads yeah wrong okay so what I what I read was an interview I think it was the New York or LA times. Sorry, both of your papers, legitimate papers. And the article was about, uh, you realize that you were just not alone in it, that your actions were having consequences with your family. Yeah. Is that fair? That's fair. Yeah. Okay. And that there was, um, bullying or that they were not treated properly. And maybe I made a leap that they weren't being treated properly at school because you were being outspoken, but maybe I made a,

yeah, I think it's like more than the situations. What, you know, like, you know, that who, who knows me and sees me playing that I have sometimes like, I'll go over that line in the games in, um, in, in, in stuff like, especially with the, I think with the, with the referee. That's right. Yeah. So with the pushing and everything so what happened there it's pretty easy um it was a hand a handball in in if we get the penalty we we make it into playoffs so in in that moment i feel like he screwed us in at the end he screwed us it was truth it was a handball and i think every tv show every show showed it and i was right of course i was not right what happened after but there's an emotional reason behind it too and um and uh so yeah i i

went up to him and i wanted to talk with him he don't wanted to talk with me so we got in in an argument and um but that's the that's the point you know and then you have kids who who understand that and and they can read it and everything and they come up and then especially they have conversation in school and in all that stuff and and then and then stuff go get get wild you know and then they come back and they're like dad can we talk real quick and yeah what's what's going on why are you doing that like what is the reason you know and then i'm like okay now i have to be careful you know they're looking they have phones they're figuring stuff out and it's easy to google you know just put the name in and you figure everything out what what your dad is doing and then at one point you

don't want to sit next to him and say this is not not good. Don't do it. And he's like, but you're doing it. Wait a minute, Google. Hold on, dad. Look, you did it. You know? So I said, like, I have to be careful. So when you talk, let's go back to authenticity for a minute. What challenges your authenticity? Like, what are the things that challenge your ability to be you? Because I get that you're like this free spirit, aggressive, open, emotional, big brain.

You think hardworking, chippy edge way about you. Does that sound about right? Yeah. Yeah. So what gets in the way of it? I would say getting away of that is just being myself is if i will have a boss have a boss on top of me that's that's that's getting away that drives you nuts they that would drive me not especially by then you cannot say whatever you think

where you have a guy who is on top when he's the boss in so you've never seen like you have a boss you have a coach i had a coach yeah but i'll say at the at the end you you have a boss. You have a coach. I had a coach, yeah. But I say at the end, you have to figure out what's the right one, right? So in the game sometimes, but in general, soccer or in general sports, the people don't really say. There's raw people who really say the truth in all the other ones that talk for that, what the ownership and everybody want to hear. That's how it is. So truth seeking or truth saying is rare yeah for sure is that why you have comments about like the leagues and development of the leagues and is that yeah but it's like it's it's not about

the league it's not about where soccer in general you know all the people who know me is like i just want to help and i want to i want to see it develop i want to see how we get better why we had if you look 2014 how many people screamed at the world cup or been to the world cup it's it's ridiculous and then missing the next world cup is just like where we have to knock on the door and say why why are we missing the world cup what was that like for you it was for me it was just i was sitting at home and not having the chance to help the boys on the field you know and um was already really bad and um then don't going into the workup was for me why i remember

2014 after the workup me and jürgen klinsmann talked and i told him i say i would do everything i know i would be in the age maybe it's not possible to go but I would do everything to be still fit and still going you know and then coming in with Bruce Arena I'm sorry but for me one of the worst coaches I ever had and with all the respect to him personally he's an amazing human being but I knew that we don't we're not make it you know and then seeing him setting together the team was, for me, no surprise. So when we missed this World Cup, I was like, okay, there's a reason behind it. A lot of people maybe don't see it now, but a lot of things will change in what happened.

What makes Juergen and Bruce different coaches? For you, what makes Bruce a it's pretty easy amateur coach in so many words Juergen Juergen been Juergen been to the big stages you know he he been there he saw it live and not like just on the tv and what I said before Bruce Arena is an amazing human being but he never been on the big stages he went to work out but he never played it he never know the picture of a player you know in his background is lacrosse and in all that stuff so with all the respect to that but i just see it from day in day out training sessions and i don't feel confident it's a cool phrase he's never seen the picture of the from an athlete yeah that's a cool phrase. He's never seen the picture from an athlete. That's a cool phrase. One of my experiences that some of the greatest coaches, they ask the athletes a lot of questions.

They're trying to understand what it feels like, smells like. Even if they've been there, they've never been there in the shoes of the athlete today. Right. On this moment, on this pitch, in this environment with the unique history of that athlete. Do you agree with that? that great coaches ask questions? Or do you have a different thought? I think the best coaches in the world, they have a good connection definitely with their players. In their ask questions, in most of the best coaches with the best teams,

they're not really coaches, they're mentors. They're just trying to see the human beings and trying to keep everybody on the same page. By coaching, if you coach Real Madrid, you have the best players in the world. So what do you want to teach them? To juggle a ball? No. But you have to teach them to not be 25 babies.

You have to teach them to be 25 good human beings who protect them on the field, who support teammates if you're not playing and all that stuff. That shows how good you are as a coach. So flip over to what you're doing now as a businessman, building an agency. I imagine that everything we've talked about has influenced not only your sporting career, but now your business career. Yeah. So can you talk about what you're doing there?

So, yeah, I had this back in the days always when I came 2014, when I came back and played for the New England Revolution. I started like having these thoughts about an agency. And then at one point I talked with my accountant, my business manager, and figured out and asked him and said, look, this is my idea. What do you think about it? And he's like, I think it can really work. And so I started like putting pieces together

and then got two business partners in. And then our main focus was to say, okay, what is the main focus where we want to see? Then we said first soccer, of course, why I come from soccer. And my business partner comes from soccer. And so we said focusing on soccer will be the number one but then it got real quick big that we's like okay why are we not calling it just define sports entertainment agency or in a group in um in uh

in in going into it is like what we want to do is developing the new generation of soccer, helping them to find the path, not only here in the United States, if there's a chance to help bringing them over to Europe, bringing and making soccer in general bigger. Well, I think we just have not only talent, we have one of the strongest, if you see one of the strongest impact in sports in general, if you go with of the strongest, uh, impact in sports in general, if you go with basketball, football, baseball, like we have athletes like strong physicality, fast, everything. But now we have to figure out how can we get them to be the best soccer players,

you know, and then look the country where we live in. It like it's amazing we have amazing cities we have a bunch of good owners who who are really into sports so if we get that impact we can be one of the best leagues in in in the world would you suggest um so that's that's the mission of your agency yes right okay would you suggest that we go to a developmental model similar to europe or would you say no no keep it the way it is with club no keep it change it completely you would say change it completely change it completely yeah it's a better it's better to have that feeder system as opposed to the club system yeah i think it's and then going into the college and all kind of stuff like how it is you know um i think we we have to start looking in to have a first league, second league, third league, then maybe going in after third league, using the college,

where you get young kids in and everything. I think what I said before in the interview was like, we have to start giving pressure on the young kids, just to show them to develop. If you take in Christian Pulicic, he's now for me the best, or he can be the best American player in history if you see him how he plays it's for me ridiculous he's good you know but he will never be Christian Pulicic when he just will be here in America he went over and if you see what he put on the line

his dad went over with him started working for Puma like all that stuff training day in day out with the best players that's why he's christian now and he can make the difference for our national team but he will never be the same when he will stay here why the pressure is not here you cannot if you go with mls and all this there's no going down in a second division you cannot you know there's no pressure in general and this is on the highest level so where you want to teach that kids living with pressure in a young age that's for me where we like have to figure out in general with the agents with the leagues how we get soccer better in this country at the end it's not i'm not talking bad about the league i don't

i just want to see the develop in this country where i think there's so much opportunity to make this country amazing in soccer and this is where we have to help. Don't just focus on football or baseball. No, we have soccer too. And it's like, if you go with the girls teams, we are really the best in the world. So why we cannot be the best with the men? That's where I go.

Cool. What's the name of the agency? Define. Define? Yeah. What does that mean? To be honest, it came up just, we were going around and looking around, what can be the name?

And then we put some ideas in like this. It's a cool name. And then it popped up. So it was organic. Yeah. Yeah. It doesn't have a particular meaning. No.

You just like the way it looks and felt. Okay. What is next for you after the agency you're still playing a little bit or did you stop no um it's funny i you're not coming out of retirement for the national team are you not no it's not the plan not the plan okay but um the the funny part is like i was retired in in i really focused on the agency and everything in in in private life you know in um and you got your handful right now with the private life oh yeah i'll tell you yeah can you tell me about that that's a different part is it a different part no but it's like it's too right it comes always to that that um you never know what happens

in life right you you wake up and every day for me this is how i i learned it for myself is like every day starts by zero you know you don't know what what happens in um going to to a private stage where you get divorced in in in moving forward is like a next part where you have to figure out what's what's coming kids first like now you have to find a relationship back with with your ex-wife for the kids and all that stuff you know changing in general moving out of the house and all that stuff it's it's it's always a changing but it's always are you right in the middle of that right now yeah it's happening right now yeah it happens right now yeah you know how how i can't imagine the stress of trying to figure out a new relationship with

somebody who I've been heartbroken by. Like that's a really hard, because most of the times when there's intimacy breaking and heartbreak in that way, like people tend to just move away from each other, but you've got kids. Yeah. And so you're going to try to work it out. It sounds like, yeah, no, we, we, we definitely tried to work it out it sounds like yeah no we we definitely tried to work it out you know for the kids it's for the kids yeah it was in the beginning i think when when still the fire's on you know from both sides i think it's it's tough to to find the communications and a lot happens through lawyers and um but at the end it's like you have to just put the weapon down you know and say look look, we've been to a couple of years together.

There was love. There was respect for each other. And we have five amazing kids. And now we have to put them first and figure out what's next. At one point, you want to sit next to the person you love for a couple of years. You want to sit next to her and just celebrate easy a couple years you know you want to sit next to her and just celebrate easy stuff like birthday for kids and stuff like that you know i'm a i'm a guy i don't want to have that separate way like okay you have the birthday in this year i have next year

or kind of stuff you know so i i want to be that my kids grow up without that what i had no dad and here's the mom just you know like the split part and i want to have them be kids don't don't think about what happens with between me and your mom just let us figure out and you guys be loved know that we respect you guys we we love you both sides to death and then we will be there you know beautiful how did you deal with that heartache like how did you move through the first time that you realized that your wife was not faithful how does somebody i haven't had that experience you you know we we've been we've been through a lot you know me and her it's not only from her side you know i i did stuff too so that's that's that's the real picture, you know.

But in general, I think that the last time now was for her to decision to step out of the relationship. She fell in love with somebody else. That's how it is. Like love, you cannot control it, you know. Now she's going through a tough moment now where she has to figure out for her own, you know. And at the end, what I said before, what I can just figure out now is what is the best for my kids and and that's like me and her we have to be on the same page you know in in the moment we we start infighting or argumenting or something i'll just let it go why it makes no sense you know it's the first point the kids and if we can

figure out that we be mom and dad for the kids and maybe having a relationship like a friend relationship at one point i'm open for that when you think about mastery let's flip over to a new concept how do you define mastery like what are the elements that what are the components that go into the concept of mastery wow mastery wow i don't know really what is it tougher that's a really hard question yeah i've been asking that a lot and most people struggle with the definition and then they anchor back down to mastery has something to do with the process of getting better and like i'm kind of stuck because so many people have said something like that but there's more to it i know there is yeah i think that's the easiest one just to say like okay i'm trying

to get better right in taking out what i get and then try to to see how it can help me to to get better in in the future yeah but yeah it is not easy it is not easy i think there's there's there's so many stuff comes to together right it's like you you have that stuff where you can say okay i want to be better in the path but then still you're looking for yourself and you think like what was wrong you know what happened if that part happens again how do you deal with that self-critique you know when something doesn't go according to plan when it's not going the way that you wanted it to i'm i'm really hard on myself you know you are self-critical highly self-critical uh yeah what is it what does that sound like what's it sound like what do you say um there was moments

like we say like now for the breakup with my ex-wife um i always promised to myself i say i just remarried one time i just don't want to get to a breakup i don't want to have my kids going through the same stuff i went through like all that stuff like this whole pressure what i give me you know and then you're going through it like sitting there at that moment, sitting alone in the house. The kids are with their mom. You're alone there. And you're like, damn, why? Why I was so dumb?

Why I was there? Starting reading books. You go into stuff and you love books. And you're like, is that really the answer for everything? And I don't get it. I was so blind just in my own world, thinking like that man will like oh i don't have to tell my wife i love her in the morning or give her a hug like that easy stuff maybe that will help my relationship or my marriage to keep her you know it's like it it is tough you know in in

in that i would say that was the hardest part like where i was like have to fight in in in in in still believe in it will get better you know there's something comes you know everything happens for a reason like don't don't go too too bad on yourself you know but of course there's self-critic definitely jermaine thank you for your time thank you you. Yeah, thank you. You know, these are not easy questions. And your honesty, your openness, your courage to demonstrate how you work is a gift. And so I want to say thank you for that. Thank you. Thank you for having me.

Oh, yeah. It was a pleasure. Yeah, this whole concept of like, how does the mind work is really freaking hard. You know? Oh, yeah. Isn't it tricky? Because it's invisible. our thoughts are completely invisible and if i go way upstream like really what i'm trying to sort out is like how do you think you know what is the framework that you

make sense of yourself and relationships and your craft and and events that take place like that's what i'm trying to sort out how do some of the most extraordinary thinkers and doers organize their inner life? Yeah. No, there's so much. Since I broke up with my ex, I was starting reading books, you know, in before. You didn't read before? No, I'll be honest. Seriously.

I was like reading. I'm like, no, I have no time for that, you know. But now going into this whole things and then public speaking, what I want to do and stuff like that, you know. What do you want to talk about in general? Like how you handle pressure, you know, in like, how is it like be alone,

being yourself in going through pressure, the depression, you know, all that stuff. Did you struggle with depression? Oh yeah, definitely. Like over the course of your life or just recently? Um,

I think in general, like I had always, I would say like moments in there in my life where i felt like more than 30 days at a time where you were down or was it more episodic like a couple days here and there yeah episodic episodic yeah yeah yeah but it's like this is stuff where i really focus on and then especially now reading books and stuff like that where you see and what do you say like what is the outcome really on life right like what we doing here what is like stuff like i was reading this book with karma and all kind of stuff you know now i'm going to books with depression and all that stuff but i just want to see what is really coming out where can i help you know when when you got depressed how dark did it get for you um it it gets it gets really dark you know

it is um in in i lost a good friend of mine with suicide in malibu in uh and um and it is tough you know it's not easy and people don't understand like what's what it really mean you know it's like you have this up and then you have that downs where, you don't believe in anything you do anymore, you know. And you go hard on yourself in stuff. When I say it, when a young age, being a professional player, you know, and then have maybe that outcome that you played in front of 60,000. Now you have maybe that's gone, you know. You don't make money anymore and all that stuff.

It's like you go really deep and you have to figure out on your own. Now I had the situation going to a divorce where there were a couple of days where I was just sitting in my room. To be honest, I have some drinks in my bed. Don't move out of my bed and just trying to see what's coming next, you know. And then having a daughter or kids who give you that love and attention where you think like there's more than just that, what he had, you know, like looking in the face of your kids, seeing them, you know, I want to see their kids at one point. And like,

that's like stuff where I just trying to see where can I, where can I be a part, not only being Jermaine Jones, the sport guy, you know, no being Jermaine Jonesones as a human being maybe go around the country helping kids helping people you know to to go to stuff like that it sounds like the mental health the mental well-being is an important part of your next phase yeah definitely i have it already i'm i'm a vegan and all this stuff so i'm really into this all stuff is that for health or is that for compassionate eating is it more philosophical or more no it was both okay of course i i started i started to be for health you know when 2014 when i came back i was i loved to be honest i loved the

barbecues and all that stuff but i i figured out real quick that i got a lot of weight and um in and i don't feel good with it you know and then my my my ex-wife she was vegan and raw vegan before she's like you have to try it you try it out and then i tried i lost a lot of weight and you know and from that moment i really feel better and now you see it like there's a change a lot of people starting getting vegan and you you have to understand it's just like what do you put into your body is the same like you put into a car right like if you have a sports car and you took like not the right stuff in it doesn't work and it's the same like with us if you're an athlete or in general a human being and you want to live good it's important

what do you what do you eat and what do you put into your body you know and a lot of people don't know it you know till they hear then from somebody like me who go through the process and been a professional for years and everything they're like how you do it where's your protein like why are you doing this like why and that and that's like it is easy but at the point it's like yeah you have to look through the menu you have to work a little bit and that's what in general life is right you cannot say oh i want to be there but i don't want to put the work in in that smaller stuff like going dinner you have to put work in and know what you eat i love the clarity if you want to if you want to go somewhere you got to put some work in whether it's for health or nutrition or for soccer or

that's how it is love exactly yeah extraordinary what a life you've had was interesting keep going yeah okay um Can you maybe use your natural tongue and say something from the heart that you'd like to wish, you know, your people? Yeah. I would say like the people who know me, in special for the people who follow me, I would say like, yeah, be yourself, you know, be yourself. In your natural tongue. In Germany. In Germany. Okay. Yeah, then I would say, if all the people who follow me, I would like them to know that they trust, believe, love and then continue to believe in themselves, never give up and try to continue to do what they want to do

and then it would be easy in life. What did you say? No, in general I said just believe in yourself, trust in yourself. There are moments when it's not easy, but still stick to your beliefs and go for it. Brilliant. Thank you. Where do we find you on social? All is Jermaine Junior.

That's my name, Jermaine Junior. On all of them? Yeah, Instagram, Twitter, Facebook. Appreciate you. Again, thanks for having me. All right. Thank you so much for diving into another episode of finding mastery with us. Our team loves creating this podcast and sharing these conversations with you. We really appreciate you being part of this community. And if you're enjoying the show, the easiest no cost way to support is to hit the subscribe or follow button

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