Finding Mastery with Dr. Michael Gervais - Jimmy Smith: Creativity, Authenticity, Growth (Part 2)

Episode Date: July 13, 2016

Jimmy Smith, Founder and CEO of Amusement Park Entertainment, is a creator, who has faced down adversity and celebrates both the humanness and spirituality of people. He has earned countless awards for his work as a Writer and Creative Director for Nike at Wieden + Kennedy, Executive Creative Director at BBDO and most recently, Gatorade’s Group Creative Director at TBWA\Chiat\Day LA. In This Episode: -Striving for diversity within Amusement Park -The story behind Nike Freestyle -Putting the “G” in Gatorade -Identifying the right people to work with -How Nike lost out on Space Jam and what it says about risk taking -Clients not actually wanting to take the risks they claim they are willing to -Heaven sent with Luke Aikens and why he’s comfortable with what’s at stake -Why he listens to others even when he disagrees -Belief as a word that cuts to the center of himself -Why living his live in uncomfortable spots allows him to deal with his inner critic_________________Subscribe to our Youtube Channel for more powerful conversations at the intersection of high performance, leadership, and meaning: https://www.youtube.com/c/FindingMasteryGet exclusive discounts and support our amazing sponsors! Go to: https://findingmastery.com/sponsors/Subscribe to the Finding Mastery newsletter for weekly high performance insights: https://www.findingmastery.com/newsletter Download Dr. Mike's Morning Mindset Routine! https://www.findingmastery.com/morningmindsetFollow us on Instagram, LinkedIn, and X.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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you're listening. I think you might be the reason that we're running out of these bars so quickly. They're incredible, Mike. I love them. One a day, one a day. What do you mean one a day? There's way more than that happening here. Don't tell. Okay. All right. Look, they're incredibly simple. They're effective. 28 grams of protein, just 150 calories and zero grams of sugar. It's rare to find something that fits so conveniently into a performance-based lifestyle and actually tastes good. Dr. Peter Attia, someone who's been on the show, it's a great episode by the way, is also their chief science officer. So I know they've done their due diligence in that category.

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to go check them out. Get a free variety pack, a $25 value and 10% off for life when you head to davidprotein.com finding mastery that's david d-a-v-i-d protein p-r-o-t-e-i-n.com finding mastery and this is part two with jimmy smith from amusement park entertainment where we just left the conversation where he was talking about stresswood and now we're moving into the importance of why working with diverse people and diversity is so important for business and life success. So let's jump right back into this conversation with Jimmy Smith. I don't know who wrote the article, this particular whether it was coming. So that's not okay. So I'm sorry to interrupt, but I'm so excited about this. You're not sure if this is like a concept that is well accepted in science no i think it is it is okay i'm almost positive

yeah if you google stresswood it'll come up yeah god i love it so you read that and you said this is my phase in life right now is stresswood stresswood why i got so happy when when i read that so that simple idea yeah and what did it do for you? Oh, it made sure I withstood the storm. It made sure that I didn't, I saw where I wanted to go and where I wanted to do what I wanted to accomplish. What is that? Your vision? Like that, that big, those big goals that you have. I want amusement park to be a combination of Disney, Sony and Apple.

And in that world, I'll then be able to put my not just my voice, but the individual voices of everybody that works there out into the world. And hopefully we attract positive people who have a love of of God, a love of life and whatever whatever whatever then on top of that if you aren't going to hire any black folks if you aren't going to hire any brown folks you will i will yeah there you go i love it so okay so and then yeah not just the company but obviously companies like that they hire other companies to work with right well if i'm if I'm, if I'm hiring you, you damn sure, but it has some other people in there that, that look like the world, not just look. And I don't mean just all black company. I don't mean just all white company or what I mean, you need, uh, like they call agent, um, agencies in general, general market agencies, a general market agency um talks to everybody in theory but they they're all white the vast majority of people creating the ads working at those

companies are all white that's not a general market company play that disney is disney forward right ad agencies are responsible for creating 30 secondsecond spots. Traditionally, it's changing now. And those 30-second spots represent brands. And so those brands have a particular way. Let me see if I got it right. Those brands that are influencing the viewers of television or in print are really represented by the psychological framework of white kids that became adults eventually. And then, so how can you really have a true understanding of what it means to be another culture? I don't

know how I can have empathy and compassion and try to understand, but if I never lived in that skin color or that environment, I can, the best I can do is imagine my wife is Cuban. And, um, I want to tell you a fun story about her grandfather in a minute, but so that, that idea, why did I bring that up is because I can have great understanding of that culture. I'm as close as you can possibly get in it, but I'm not, I'm not Cuban. I never had to tear up my roots and leave with $20 in my pocket from another country. I don't know what that feels like. I can imagine, but it's just imagination. So that, that then there impacts the next generation of kids growing up that are watching tv

to be influenced by a white ethos if you will you got it does that sound right and so how bad is that how how bad is this is is it's about as bad as it, as it comes outside of killing somebody, but killing cultures. Cause this is what happened to Ireland. The Irish, they were stripped. This is what happened to native Americans. They were stripped.

This is the English empire, right? So the, the Irish were just brutal. Like street names were gone. So there's the, you know, there's lots of cultures that have been flat out stripped.

When I was growing up in Norton Shores, there would be kids that were, you know, they'd tell me their name and I can't remember them all, but maybe Mike Poland or what's up, Mike? Maybe, you know, Pulaski or something like that. And I can't tell you how many times when I was growing up, I didn't understand it. Now I do, do but well we're Polish and my real name is whatever whatever whatever it is but they shorten it to this that's really not what it is and it's like well what was wrong when I was in Japan they they would um the Chinese woman I was in Japan and um speaking at advertising week and this woman came all the way from China and she said her. I can't remember what her real name is, but let's say it's Lily. And she said when Chinese kids are in school, they give them they make them choose an American, basically an American English name.

No kidding. Yeah. And they got American English names and they and they got their regular Chinese names. And I just thought that was like the weirdest, strangest. Yeah. It may be easy for for somebody to pronounce, but that you're stripping away your heritage. You are not Lily. You your Chinese name is, it is up to us to learn how to say your Chinese name or, you know, figure out something. But that's not cool. But on a selfish end, for what my goal is, you simply can't, you cannot be good as a music park if you're all from one race. If your company has the vast majority are either Latino or Hispanic or Asian or white or African, African-American, you can't. We will kick your ass every which way to Sunday because when the different cultures come together,

that's when you get to someplace new. It's not black. It's not white. It's not Asian. It's not Hispanic. It is something new. And I'm all about doing something new. You're not trying to do better than before. You're trying to create a different paradigm. That's so cool. Okay. All right. So go to Gatorade. I don't know. We didn't finish Nike freestyle. So yeah. So okay. Nike freestyle. Let me take a quick run at this. It's the, the, the, the commercial where they're great athletes are bouncing a basketball on into a particular rhythm to a hip hop beat. Yeah. And they're used by the basketballs and by the basketballs and their sneakers and their sneakers. Yeah those and that was did that come from you created by the game yes it did it did the whole thing whole thing why why now i when you when you say something like that you the genesis of it i was still at musical arrow chin and i have i always on my computer always have like light bulbs and it'll be stuff written on there that doesn't mean anything at that particular time but i think that could be something so i put in the light bulb folder right so i had the light bulb folder

um create the sounds of the game create the sounds of basketball from squeaks swishes and uh whistles that was it that's all i had written down. So I get into Wieden and then me and Dr. J, John J, who was a creative director partner at Wieden and Kennedy. And he's an Asian cat. Talk about creating something new. I didn't think he knew a rat's ass anything about basketball because he's a short Asian dude. What is a short Asian dude, Chinese dude know about basketball? We started and Dan Wieden put us together. He's he's a genius for true genius puts us together to work and i'm going this is how is this gonna work dan's the genius or john is too but the genius of dan wyden was putting us together okay so and we created some of the most revolutionary basketball work. And that's when I learned a whole heck of a lot.

And it's like, OK, show you how much I know. Doc, Doc, that's where I coined him, named him Dr. J. So so the radio spots. Were the sounds of the game, and it was freestyle rappers rapping about the shoes over the sounds of the game. So I would bring in hip hop producers and it's like you can do anything you want to. You can create any beat you want. I don't care what it is, but you can't use anything. But the basketball sneaker squeaks, swishes, it's all got to be from the sounds of basketball. I don't care anything else. Then the rapper would come in and you freestyle rap. And the game of basketball is oftentimes freestyle because in hip hop, when you're battling against somebody, you just top of the head.

It depends on what's happening, what's going on, that you come up with whatever you're going to say, whatever you're going to spit right with the lyrics. In this game of basketball, it's like, what a defender do what what what is happening in the action you can't predict most oftentimes what's going to happen but when it happens you react and instinctively you're freestyling on the court sure some things go the way you expect them whatever but oftentimes you're freestyling on the court. So I took the freestyle of hip hop and the freestyle of basketball and put those two together. That's why you got the guy break dancing, spinning on his head from hip hop culture.

But I did that with Hal Curtis. He was a creative director, art director at the time at Wyden. Paul Hunter was the director. He's the one I was going to put it on a, on a street basketball court and have put it on uh on a street basketball court and have that same thing happen on street basketball court paul hunter said no let's put it on uh um on a black suite let's put it like on and hal had this thing about putting it on a stage

paul wanted to put it on a black suite and so that's what we did and the guy that always gets forgotten tim hannerhan tim hanner hand and I white dude, again, put into cultures, Paul hunters black. How Curtis is white, and Tim Hanner hand is, is white, he oftentimes gets forgotten. But we were working on it in 1998. a different type of shoe it was more like a lifestyle Nike shoe nobody at Nike got it they didn't understand it they didn't know what that meant you're gonna do what you're gonna have them do yeah now that doesn't make any sense 2001 um we've represented it and by then the the nike guys who had killed it before were gone so we were ready to slip it on through good thing

because it changed it changed um or left a mark of creativity in basketball that's that i think people were in instantly drawn to so if people listening't seen it, like it's a quick search. And this is what, this is what I was talking to you about. Um, offline. This is why we want to create the pop culture category inside of the one show, because that ad who everybody remembers, everybody loves hardly won anything in the advertising award shows because it's from a culture nike freestyle hardly won any awards hardly won any awards ranked didn't win any one of the best commercials ever yeah but doesn't win awards how does that how do you get both i'm saying you if you got a bunch of white you said it earlier you got away um from a culture yeah

that you don't know anything about you know what what it is, but you don't, you can't feel it. And, and that's the, and, and so because you can't feel it when you're looking at it, it just looks like it's just a bunch of guys dribbling the basketball. But if you would have shown it to their kids, they'd say, are you kidding me? That thing is, that's just the greatest thing I've ever seen. Dad, you must be nuts and that's what that's also what gives a person of color an advantage is as African American

I got to live in white culture I grew up so I know Animal House is one of my all time favorite movies one of the whitest movies you ever seen except for when that group gets up there and goes, a little bit less up and down, except for that. But I get all of those cultural touches. I love Elvis Presley. I think Elvis, the monkeys, all that shit is dope. But a white person in general doesn't have to live in my world and understand my cultural cues as an African-American.

I have to know both. Beautiful. Okay. Gatorade. So you put the G in Gatorade or were part of the beginnings of that idea that we are familiar with now. And then, so last time, not last time, but when we were talking earlier, I asked where that came from. And it was really simple for you. What, G is for God? Yeah. There's a, there's a, and shoot, I can't remember his name. Jayonta Jenkins was my, my partner on Gatorade. I was a group creative director and Jay was one of my creative directors.

And we needed a logo. Lee Clow said, we need a new logo. The client said Massimo was the main client over on Gatorade. And Lee Clow, the CEO, former CEO of Chiat. Um, the, the Yoda of shy day better is, is Lee cloud. So he said, we need a logo, need a new logo. We need a little lead logo. So we got, um, Jay Anta brought in, uh, um, a designer and the designer, we gave him the, what his marching instructions. And I wish I could remember his name I can't remember his name but he created all these logos various styles and whatever whatever and then he had one there that just had a G and I saw the G and I said that's the campaign it's not just the logo that's where everything comes out

of G is for God it's the seventh letter in the alphabet G is the letter for gravity G is G force it's it's the G men from the FBI it's gangster it's gangsta kids are walking up and down the street going what's up G what's up G and I said how is you don't do that with any other letter in the alphabet that is a mad powerful i believe it's even the the letter for um the shoot there there's a you know one of those secret organizations i can't remember it right now but their their symbol is g extremely powerful letter and that should be that should be where the campaign everything everything emanates out of G for Gatorade. Awesome. More than trivia, but it's a place that it comes from.

It's the place where it comes from. Okay. So let's move into, I think we've covered like your path really well and how you have been able to become an influencer in your field and shape from your philosophy. Sean, that's the guy's name. He was going to put the G on the, on the,

what guidance would you give your younger self? No one looking back now. Um, I don't know, man, because, um, if I wouldn't have been as bullheaded you we wouldn't be talking about freestyle yeah we wouldn't I'm you you're getting the

short stories but freestyle was a battle um the the like father like son I mean um yeah like father like son at battle the battle, all of those great pieces of work. You needed to be confident, bullheaded and so on and so forth. And reason I bring that up is you say, what would you change? A lot of times I get, yeah, you're bullheaded, you're stubborn or whatever, whatever, whatever. But it's hard to get off of something that you know that you're right about. So now I can read what I can do better. Here's what I can do that I didn't, couldn't do when I was younger. I can tell better now if I got a shot of selling somebody something, even though it's going to be a battle that this person has the heart to hang in there and be and not have their ego in the way of it, where they can listen to what you're trying to say, even though in the beginning they're like, no, no, I don't think we should do that. As opposed to somebody who's just a wimp, scared of their own shadow shadow and they'll never do anything great in their life.

There's no point in wasting your time trying to get that person to do something great. That's waste of time. I can pick out those people. That's really, that's an insight that I haven't heard anyone talk about yet. So you're better now. And so your advice to someone younger or to you younger would be make sure that you're identifying those that will go to to to work with you they can hang in there long enough because you've got a high tolerance to hang and that they'll fight the good fight so to speak they'll fight the good fight they'll um that's really cool that's about picking a partner picking somebody that you know but it's on the client side that's right you see what i'm saying it's like who is that person that wants to be great yeah who wants to be pushed who how do you find how would you find them um god that's good

you you you test them out you you what how what's their reaction to this idea if if it's an immediate strong it's's different from, oh, we can never do that. As opposed to, but let me think about it now. If it's followed up, if that sentence is followed up with, well, let me think about it. That's a different person as opposed to somebody who, oh, we can never do that. It is the same in sport. And then there's one other kind of variable. And so in sport, you ask someone to do something that they're not doing.

And when they say, all right, okay, I'm not sure I totally understand, but let's go for it. You're like, okay. And sometimes people say, well, tell me why I want to understand before I do it. And it's like, okay, but you're sitting, getting to the same place. Some people will say flat out. No, no, no, no, no. I got what I got and it's fine. And you're like, Oh, okay. All right. There you go. But there's someone in the middle that's, um, is we call them coach killers because they say, okay, yeah, I'll do that. I'll get with you. Okay, here we go. And they don't do it. They don't, they don't actually do the work. They say they'll do

the work, but they don't really do the work. So those take longer because they know that they're hedging their bet to stick around a little bit longer than they might have been able to. And those are the ones that are dangerous. So as I'm thinking this through with you, there's at least four different types that I've seen. Finding Mastery is brought to you by Momentus. When it comes to high performance, whether you're leading a team, raising a family, pushing physical limits, or simply trying to be better today than you were yesterday, what you put in your body matters. And that's why I trust Momentus. From the moment I sat down with Jeff Byers, their co-founder and

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Just head to FelixGray.com and use the code FINDINGMASTERY20 at checkout. Again, that's Felix Gray. You spell it F-E-L-I-X-G-R-A-Y.com and use the code FINDINGMASTERY mastery 20 at Felix gray.com for 20% off. There is there. I'll tell you a little story. So space jam. Oh, that's, that's right. You worked on space. I did not. Jim Rizwall created space jam when he was at your relationship with them. Cause we've talked about space jam before with on widening Kennedy or Nike. No, just you you in general or just maybe you just use that as storytelling i use it as a story because it's why a music park one of the one of the reasons that a music park because it started off as a tv commercial it's a 60 second ad scott bedberry

showed it to me when i was at the storyboard when i was at um music or darryl chin he said what do you think i was the resident black dude and had that many blacks overhead at in beaverton oregon at the time it's changed a lot now but um and he presented to me i said that sucks that's the stupidest idea i've ever seen so i'm i understand that i'm not right all the time anyway they did it anyway ran on the super bowl blew up warner brothers went to go meet with phil, co-founder of Nike, and said, hey, we should turn this into a movie and make $100 million at the box office. This is like in 93 or something. And Phil goes, no, we just make shoes. So that was it. Next year, they do a 90-second commercial. Blows up bigger than the first one. Runs on the Super Bowl,

like I said, bigger than the first and they come back meet with Phil. They said, Phil, how much are you spending to make this 90 second commercial? And he was like, I don't know what the number was, but say it was like 30 million between media spin, production, so on and so forth licensing. And he said, you know, take part of that money and put it towards a movie. And instead of a 90 second commercial, you're going to have a 90 minute commercial. And instead of you, because there was no YouTube at the time, instead of you hoping that the kid is sitting in front of the TV and happens to see your commercial, they're going to pay you money to go watch an ad and give you money for an ad.

When is the last time you made money outside of it selling products for an ad. I'm going to give you money for an ad. When was the last time you made money outside of it selling products for an ad? And Phil said, no, we just make shoes. Now, he wouldn't do that again. So anyway, Warner Brothers said, well, screw that, man. We're going to make this movie anyway. That's why they changed the name

from Hair Jordan to Space Jam. So that thing made $283 million at the box office, $3.5 billion in merchandising, close to $4 billion. At the time, Nike was a $6 billion company. So I'm sitting up there as a young writer. It's going, wait a minute now. Wait a minute. We're doing these little 30- do hickeys and we're getting this basically pennies to do it. But this stuff, when you do it at a at a high, excellent level, it has the potential.

There's no telling what it could be. So I tell that story to a client. And that person said, oh, we could never do that. We just make and and she and she said the name of her product. We just we just making these little things. And and the interesting thing was, she said, when you first told that story, I said, how stupid can Nike be to not see that? But the moment you brought in my product into the story, oh, no, we're just a little. Yeah. And that that just like that. So that's the type of client that I've learned to avoid when she said that. It's like, ah, OK, we know what we got there. We are that's wasting

my time. That's not to say that that person at some point in their lifecycle can get it. But during that there's no point in sitting up there trying to sell that type of a person. An idea that can change the world. That's a waste of time. God, I love it. Okay. Um, dark side, what's the dark side of being one of the great creators that you've touched such a wide range of people across the globe? What is one of the dark sides of pursuing that it can be intimidating to insecure people you know you're trying to that let me a better

example is they can't see what you see there There you go. So one of my favorite stories is Magic Johnson when he was coaching. And I think it was Nick Van Axel, one of the guys on the court, Eddie Jones, Nick Van Axel. He said, there he is. Hit him. Hit him. He wanted he wanted Nick to make the pass. Right. And he just lost his mind, I guess, through his clipboard down. And this is the story I heard. I wasn't there. I saw him coach. I don't know if it was that game or not. And Kurt Rambis was his assistant coach. And he said, Buck, because they call him Magic Buck. That's what made you Magic Johnson. They can't see

what you're asking them to see. That's what made you you. So it is maddening when you're dealing with a client like the one I just described. And they give you all their list of goals. Like, we want to do this. We want to be the biggest this. We want year over in sales to double we want this and that and they're asking for the world and you go okay cool because you

don't know in the beginning that really the majority of them don't they they don't they may want that but they don't want to do what's required to the work to get there yeah so you go and you give them this thing that's going to do it that's one of the things you said um as a young person what would i you know do differently if i would have known like when i give them that idea and they give me that the certain code words that means they're saying it but they really don't want to do it it's like it's like you're like when we were all kids right i want to play in the majors i'm playing the nba i don't play in the nfl and i was one of those kids i want to play in the nba but i really didn't want to do it because if I'd had I would have done the things that

I needed to get there so I was I understand it because I thought you lived it I said it but um so that that is maddening I mean it can be it can it can be maddening knowing that man if they would just do I'm not asking this is then i hate it when somebody says this is risky it's kind of like luke when luke says if you call him crazy he hates that i hate it when a client goes this is risky i'm not giving you i haven't even still to this day with with heaven sent i have and i know we'll talk about that later with but heaven sent, I have that scratching. That's, that's more than scratching the surface of doing something that's actually risky. Let's, let's talk about it now. So heaven sent is a project and then I'll leave it to you.

Heaven sent is going to star. It's a, it's a 30, it's a 60 minute show and it stars. Let me start that again. Heaven Sent is a 60-minute show and it stars Luke Akins, a world-renowned skydiver, like Michael Jordan, Bill Russell, Kobe Bryant is skydiving.

He's going to jump from 25,000 feet with no parachute, no wingsuit, nothing but the clothes on his back. Sponsored and brought to you by Stride Gum. It's going to be the show of the century. You want to talk about how this came to be? Okay, cool.

So we're actually, it's going to be on Fox. And we were in the 2014, March of 2014. We had this TV show that we presented to Fox. And they said, nah, that's all right. But we're thinking more, do you have anything that's more like more death-defying, more stunt, some big, huge, hunking stunt? Because the stunts were really hot in 2014 and yes and I know by but I know the person who can give us yes yes we can do that for you give me give me a couple of weeks and we'll be back around

here so great great so Chris tally good friend of ours mm-hmm aerospace physiologist. I think it's a disservice to call him a nutritionist because it's on some other level than that. But I knew him having been in the space program that he would have some crazy thing, some doohickey like that. Or if he didn't, he'd come back with one. And that's part of being a creative director is knowing that person should blah blah blah so anyway i told chris what we needed and he came back like five days later he presented five different ideas the second one was it wasn't called heaven sent but it was the idea of somebody jumping from a plane with no parachute no wingsuit i didn't hear

anything else he said after that it was like he'll tell you he said and i got another one and all i heard was blah blah blah blah blah blah blah i can see it yeah you didn't stop him you let him keep going i i after each yeah chris is he wants to keep going and i'm going yeah but chris this one right here is the one man i'm telling you hold on i got one more yeah okay keep talking right here is the one man I'm telling you hold on I got one more you keep talking but that's the one and so I named it he did his thing what was from his world I did my thing what was from my world

and then the next thing he said I got the guy to do it and he said Luke Akins I'm like who's Luke Akins he's the guy that worked with Felix Bumgarner when he jumped from the edge of space and this for me then it started really going because you and I have been working on show ideas right so now I'm going we got it and what I mean by we got it I mean we got Chris Mike and another guy that shall remain nameless I didn't make it but we've been trying to work together

on something for the longest so I'm going ah we got it but it wasn't that simple. So we go back to Fox and we went back and forth with those dudes for like a year and a half, man. It was nuts. And it just, we couldn't get to a great place. I still to this day don't know why. But how did you know that this was the idea? It had never been done before. Okay. It fit

the criteria. Would you watch that? Anybody you talk to you're going to do what now? So he's going to have a wingsuit. Nope. That's what everyone says to me. I've already seen that before. I've already seen that. I said, that so no you haven't and they'll show it to you and it'll be the guy that jumped into the boxes with a wingsuit right it'll be something it's like see he had a parachute or see he had a wingsuit after you pointed out oh yeah i didn't it's hard it boggles the mind so that's and it hadn't been done before at least purposely um it boggles the mind. So that's in the hadn't been done before, at least purposely. It boggles the mind. And those are the two main things that boggles the mind. And it hadn't been done. So is

there a feeling you get when you come across an idea that makes sense that is there something inside your body that you use to calibrate? Or is it? Is it intellectual, more of a mental idea? You know, I can't answer that that question i don't know what the hell happens it's it's like um um i don't i do not know why i outside of what i just said why something though like slapped the shit out of it's like when i first saw smoke right so i had known this is your had known smoke, my wife. My wife smoked.

So when I got to Michigan State, I met her the very first day I got there. And I go, something inside goes, oh, she's the marrying type. Wow. I knew it. So how are you, what do you do to train yourself to be available to these, this information? Because the busyness of the mind will get in the way. This is my thought at least. So do you have any clarity or insight on how you prepare yourself to experience? Aha. Well, keeping in mind that anything is possible. Don't don't let allow even if I think something is stupid from the beginning, I will let the person in general.

I'll let that person present it all the way through. Maybe I'm and I and I force myself. I've sat in so many in front of so many people where they're doing this. Oh, yeah, I'm listening. I'm listening. And they're doing all this shit. It's like, no, you fucking aren't listening that's right you are not listening i so the first thing is you train yourself to hear what that person is saying and i don't care which is deep focus that's what we're talking about right so how do you train deep focus you do it through listening i do it through listening so i really i i can listen to like to like with the street basketball players, Joe to destroy Hammond, Pee Wee Kirkland. They'd be ready to leave the studio.

I'd have them. I'd be in there with them for two, three hours just listening. I could listen to whatever somebody there. There's this guy who's got Frisbee golf. Yeah, I think it's called Frisbee golf. He's got some other name for it. He's built an entire golf, called frisbee golf he's got some other name for it he's built an entire golf entire frisbee golf industry industry golf course or our frisbee course that he is his dream

for anybody else they go man what are you talking about if i ever get enough of money where i can invest in that i will will build his frickin Frisbee golf course, even though I've never ever played, because it's it's a combination of that person's passion for it. And the coolness so that there's a combo, there's a comma who's talking to me? Are they not that it has to be a special person? It has to be? are they passionate about whatever it is that they're talking so okay so what passion and what what was the other one did you say

creativity no is is is their passion about what they're what they're talking about really i i'm fascinated and interested if you're fascinated yeah and interested and i've never heard it's like poison but here um every rose has its thorn yeah so why does um beyond the music get you even though you don't have that band's music yeah it is like they were passionate about what they were doing and and then next thing you know you're downloading their their stuff i've never heard anyone talking about the a way and it makes perfect sense it's kind of like of course is to train deep focus which is a requirement to enter flow state so flow follows focus is that um is do it through listening i love it because we talk about following your thoughts or following your breath as a training methodology if you will mindfulness training and you're saying yeah I do it with other people and

I do it by being all in when I'm listening what a gift yeah training and gift okay if is there one word that cuts to the center of what you do best or phrase one word Or phrase. One word. Belief. Believe, belief. Is there a word or phrase that cuts to who you are? Cuts to the center of who you are? Dude, you know, I'm oversimplifying. It may be boring or whatever what but i think i'm not sure but it is uh um i'm not sure and it may be bs but it is a the ability to believe so it's all wrapped around believing something believing in god believing that something can

happen believing something impossible can happen, believing that like when EA Sports first called up and said, hey, Jimmy, you want to do a video game? We watch some of your basketball ads and we want to make a street basketball game. You want to help us make a street basketball game? I said, you mean you want me to help you do the ads? No, no, no, no, no, no. We want you to help us build the game. You know, I just play pinball.

I don't play video games. I just play pinball. It doesn't matter. We want the culture of some listening. I'm asking questions. It wasn't so much that I didn't think I could help them, but I just wanted them to be clear. They get me off in the room with their tech guys that I don't know tech video game speak at the time. Pinball, I got you.

And so most people, and I've had it happen. There's a woman that's working for me now, and she's doing this job that she's never done before but she it took her like probably a month and a half she was an intern and took probably took her a month and a half for me to convince her that it wasn't rocket science that job was not rocket science she would have been okay with um i've never done that before i don't know how to do that so i'm not i'm not your person right so when they called i could have easily said before. I don't know how to do that. So I'm not I'm not your person. Right. So when they called, I could have easily said, hey, guys, I don't know anything about video games. I hate video games. I don't play video games. I don't hate video games.

But I'm just saying I could I don't know anything about video games. I don't know how to do it. But I believed they called me. So I believed who was talking to me. Right. And I believed in myself. I myself I said okay let's go make a video game yeah I haven't done it before but if you're down I'm down let's go do it okay so that's that sounds really easy that there's great alignment almost like a river flows through it like simple right what about the inner critic how do you wrestle with the inner critic that voice inside your head that maybe says something like I don't. I don't know if you can do that. Maybe you don't have what it takes or man,

you might've made a big mistake betting the farm on amusement park, whatever that inner critic is or doubter. Do you have that? So there's two things. One, that's the beauty of the doggone um bible so when it when he says the first shall be um last and the last will be first and you go how can that be and so you ever stepped in the elevator right if you're the first one in guess what you're gonna be the last one out but if you're the last one in you're the first one out so so that that to me and so like and you take out the

bible part of it w i was like in my adult maybe been 30 something before i double u d-o-u um d-o-u b-l-e double and then a u ah they took two U's and put them together. It's W. Whereas I always thought of it growing up is like it was just one thing. W. Like, right. Like a. I've never heard this, but I'm with you. But it's so simple.

That's my point. It's like these things that are just so simple, stupid. Keep it simple, stupid that these concepts are believing. Just get out of your own fucking way. And just believe how so how that how do you get out of your way? So so then so then and this came I was always not I don't know how somebody else without that's right. You said a circumstances can get out I can tell you how i

it worked for me i was uncomfortable from from kindergarten through god knows how long over in norton shires i was uncomfortable till about ninth grade it was uncomfortable and and so you you're growing up in the environment that's uncomfortable right because all the racism that's going on so when you got out outside of that and it wasn't nothing was going to get worse than that unless you were in um syria or something like that so what the hell do i give um rat's ass about if um if i look stupid or if i'm called names or if I'm called whatever the deal is, like I've been there, done that, whatever. OK, so so is it basically it was if is that all you got? So I give a lot of speeches.

I don't necessarily enjoy giving speeches. I don't enjoy it. So I guess how to train yourself is to just do stuff that makes you uncomfortable. Seek out. And I've seen you do that with some of your athletes. Seek out things that make you uncomfortable and keep doing it. Keep doing it. And you just keep doing it.

And after a while, I would imagine you build up this thing of where you're comfortable being uncomfortable. You say, yes, that's pretty uncomfortable. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. But we're going to do it anyway. That is how you build capacity, right? Okay. So Finding Mastery is brought to you by Cozy Earth. Over the years, I've learned that recovery doesn't just happen when we sleep. It starts with how we transition and wind down. And that's why I've built intentional routines into the way that I close my day. And Cozy Earth has become a new part of that. Their bedding, it's incredibly soft, like next level

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them out. Head to calderalab.com slash finding mastery and use the code finding mastery at checkout for 20 off your first order that's caldera lab c-a-l-d-e-r-l-a-b.com finding mastery when you have the inner critic though you've got what i'm hearing you say is that listen that inner critic was worked out in me early yeah yeah for zero to nine grades like it i was i had to i had the outer critic i had the inner critic and so i figured it out yeah and if there was like an accelerated accelerated way to learn what you figured out is it the statement you made which is is that all you got is that is that what it is is that all you got is um and then who's talking to you? Like who is, is it somebody that you trust? No, your inner critic.

Oh, your inner critic. Yeah. Well, then it just seems to me negativity comes from a bad place. And if it's coming from a bad place, it's coming from the evil one. If it's coming from the evil one, why would I listen to somebody who's evil? There you go. So that's the model that works for you. Yeah, that's the model.

So you just turn it down, turn it off, ignore it. Just don't let it work inside of you. Okay. Now, here we are with Heaven Sent. Is this the greatest risk you've taken? Absolutely, 100%. How are you sorting out in your head in your heart if Luke is not successful well that well that's the if the team I've told you this before I don't even when we

weren't doing this interview right I firmly believe deep in my heart, like there is no question he's not God is not going to give me something that would be a disaster. It doesn't mean that something won't work in like, you know, that ad campaign didn't work. That rarely happens. But doesn't mean that that doesn't happen or whatever, whatever there he's working out a lesson through life's things but he's not gonna give us something like this we're something of this magnitude of this scope on Fox we got a lot of people relying on his Bonnie and Bo who's a good friend of mine over at Mondelez Laura Henderson good friend of mine over at Mondeise who actually pushed this through to make it happen to provide the funding. A lot of good people, hardworking people. There's a lot on the line where this wouldn't be

cool if he didn't make it. As weird as it sounds, if he passed away, people pass away all the time in a war, in a battle and whatever, whatever, whatever whatever whatever whatever but on top of that everybody this involved I trust so much I got so much respect and love for them that I said ah just I can tell I can read that this is a God-given gift as opposed to whoo you shouldn't be doing that I've never gotten a feeling like whoo you shouldn't be doing that I've never gotten a feeling like who you shouldn't be doing that and there's a different there are there are some things that when you talk about the negativity or the inner critic there are things you that are happening that you go ah you shouldn't do that and it's

something that I should not do so I don't you know most of the So I don't, you know, most of the time I don't do it. But I didn't have yet to get anything that's saying you shouldn't be doing that. I trust Chris. Luke is who he says he is. If he wasn't who he's, you know, if he wasn't who he said he was, then that's a different story. But he is. Chris is. You are. You guys have worked in the highest, a lot more of the high stake world than I ever have and ever, ever will. And we got so many, you know, the people of John Crucian, Jim Churchman, all these people, Julius LaFleur, D. Mike, everybody that's around this project is on a high level. So I feel good about

it. Real, like beyond good. Okay. Okay. So let me give you a couple of quick hits and you can take your time and water them or not, you know, and they can be fast or slow. Pressure comes from within. It all comes down to belief there's no way that you're not going to say that i love it um success is when you're doing god's will love yeah that's God. Relationships. Super mad important. My vision. Shocking the world. Ooh.

God bless him. I am. I am a child of God. Okay. How, what is your skill and ability to be able to switch on, to meet the demands of a moment? Think about one to 10. How will you switch on and be right for whatever demands of a moment are. Say that again? What's the question? So scale of one to 10, what's your ability to switch on?

Oh, that's 10. Your ability to switch off. Like one being what? Like one is like, I'm terrible. I cannot switch off. Okay. I can't recover. Probably four. Your ability to manage internal distractions.

That's probably internal distractions. What would that be? Like the noise inside your head. I don't know if I can do this. I have to work my way up to uh that's probably eight eight eight okay uh your ability to lock in and focus when it's dangerous not 10 when it is boring ability to lock in when something is boring yeah that's probably two okay um when you feel pressure so where is what uh one to ten um your ability to lock in and focus when you feel pressure as the tent which what's what's a greater risk financial

risk emotional risk no that's not a one to ten that's a question sorry what's what's greater risk-taking like is it emotional risk that's harder or financial risk taking? I'd say spiritual risk. Yeah. That's the scariest one. That's not scary. I got to write that down. Okay. Um, motor one to 10 motivated by external rewards, one to 10 motivated by internal rewards. So what is the, oh, that's both. Yeah. So it's definitely both. It's these, godly stuff. External is like, like I told you, providing jobs, doing, you know, it's like I daydream all the freaking time. All the freaking time. if I wanted to be if I had the choice between being like this ridiculous athlete that every three years would switch to a different sport and win

championships in these sport like I go all the way to like I'm 55 and three years of basketball then fourth years Olympics three years of football for fear the Olympics so go all the way like that to start at 15, go all the way 55. So do I want to do that or do I want to be a superhero or do I want to be just a ridiculous genius like George Washington Carver, Albert Einstein, something like that? And I always go, man, if I could be like the smartest mug on the planet, like a hundred years out ahead of everybody i would go with that not because of what i could do with it but because um what it would do for african-americans people of color being like we always looked at is not being smart so i said i'll go that and be that example i love how clear it is even though i would rather even though i would rather play sports

okay so is uh one to ten on external is that a ten one or is that a nine or yeah ten ten on external and then one to ten on internal ten ten yeah there you go okay um fear of failure is the is what is your one to 10 fear of failure? Like one being low. One 10, 10 is like, I got a high fear of failure. One is I'm one. I'm not afraid of failure. Yeah.

There's one looking bad. No, it's one. Your fear of success? Meaning what does that mean? Yeah, one to ten. No, I mean what is fear of success? The idea is like, man, I'm not sure I have what it takes to hold court. I don't know if I want too much attention.

I don't know what I would do with all that kind of money. Oh, yeah, then one is like, yeah. I figured. One to ten, music. How much you like it? Yeah, how important is it to you? one to ten music how much you like it yeah how important is it to yeah oh ten ten spirituality yeah yeah okay um practicing spirituality uh it depends on how somebody says practice because i talk to god every single day like today me Mike and my partner two of my partners we meet every Tuesday at 9 a.m. and we have church and and that's hard for me because I am not an early guy so yeah it's it's a it's a 10 but it's not if you look at it as going to a church like, you know, like Saddleback or something like that, then it would be like five. But in terms of reading the Bible all the time, talking to God all the time, talking to people who are godly and talking about God all the time, it's a 10.

What do you pray for? What I pray? It depends on two of them like for one example is um but two examples saying prayer is that um god handpicked my son's wives spouses so he's handpicked one thank god for marty for sequel and that now is on the rail so that he handpicked rel that everyone is um healthy spiritually mentally and physically everyone is born into adopted into or married into the family until the lord comes pray for you for chris for luke for um your families for my pastor's families play pray

for amusement park stuff like that god thank you yeah that's beautiful um one to ten breaking rules they're made to be broken man your grin before the answer is super okay uh one to ten taking risks i imagine what you're gonna say yeah that's. Okay. How important is science to you? Science is like, it's super mad important, but not to the exclusion of there's what science fails to on in general not everybody in general um science only um seems to um acknowledge the physical laws and ignores the spiritual laws and you can't you can't do that this is it's a combo yeah and and by by same consequences you can't ignore

god created all he created spiritual laws he created physical laws you can't ignore either one of them there's consequences to ignoring physical laws you could walk off a cliff now you know if you if you really got if you're really dialed in on the spiritual side, then you can pull some Jesus antics in a good way and keep walking. I do believe that you could keep walking on air, but that's got to be something that God has said, I want you to do. You can't just sit up there and say, well, God said, yeah, but he didn't tell you to do that. So that's why you're falling. That's why you're falling yes that's why but but um science is extremely important but not at the exclusion of of the spiritual how do you what do you do to organize your day to be creative and i i you don't know i thought so because so i've got in in performance psychology there's a good science

around performance pre-performance routines you know like the structure to get your mind right and i'm not a fan and it'd be like how can we get to that formless creative process from structure and i get that there is a place from structure to from from form to formless from structure to structureless and i wonder how doless. And I wonder, what do you do? Do you just walk? Do you sit? Do you doodle? What do you do to prime yourself for procrastinate?

A lot of procrastination. I'm reading articles. I'm listening to music. I'm reading articles, listening to music, calling people, doing everything but what needs to be done. Like what what could. Like I have to force myself into, as you maybe you call it a focus state or something like that i have to force my way in there meaning dude this is due if you you're gonna be up till the middle of the night which some oftentimes i am but you put me particularly i put myself into a position where all right motherfucker you just gotta sit your ass down and write this or do that. And then once I get into that, then I can go on for like, oh man, I can go on a long, long, long, long time. But what I have found is the cool part about what it is that I do is when I'm reading,

that's feeding whatever the ideas are going to be. And what I'm listening to, that's feeding whatever the ideas are going to be and what I'm listening to that's feeding the whatever whatever it is that I'm doing oftentimes it's feeding into oh yeah remember that think that stress would article that you read that could be in your speech that's right write that down and whatever so a lot of that stuff while it is progressination it's also refilling the brain with ideas that can be used at another date and time so you have a bin digital or in like physical yeah you drop stuff into yep do you ever go back and look at it and muse on that or is it just like just in case yeah no no i definitely um will in my e I got you when you look at my emails you will see in my email box I think it's like two on one of the

accounts is like 20,000 over 20,000 unopened emails those are more often times those are articles or ideas like ah that's a good article and that might be useful for something so i'll put the article in email and send it email it to myself um here's a dope idea this was a dope movie idea write that down i put it in there and when something comes like i remember that idea yeah go back and put in the subject line. Yep. Dope movie idea. Yeah. And that's how you'd, okay. Or I put the name of like, I could, you know, if somebody wasn't going to steal it off when they listened to the podcast, I could tell you, I could rattle off some of the movie ideas and that's in the subject.

Yeah. Okay. Jimmy, um, it's a gift to know you, you represent my life. Yeah. Thank you. It's it, you represent my life. What, um, real feels like, and you always shoot straight. Um, you're a walking genius for creativity and you never take yourself too seriously and you work to be pure. And so I want to thank you for knowing you. I want to thank you, obviously, for this conversation because I always love learning from you. And so where can people find out more if they want to be in touch? They've got something they want to add or share or like where can people find out more about you? Just Google. Google type in or DuckDuckGo.

You like DuckDuckGo. I like DuckDuckGo. Yeah. Google, type in, or DuckDuckGo. You like DuckDuckGo, huh? I like DuckDuckGo. Yeah. Google's dope, too. But, yeah, just type in Jimmy Smith Amusement Park, and there's a bunch of interviews and all that kind of stuff. There's the website. And you're not on social, are you? No.

Is there a reason? I always feel bad when somebody hits me and I don't hit them back. Because there's so much going on. And, um, and I, and I, and I got to listen to the person and I don't mean that in a bad way,

but I can't just have you contact me and me not get really focused. Does that make sense? Yeah. Well, that's one of your skills. Yeah. If I did that with everybody to hit me, I wouldn't be doing diddly squat. So brilliant. Okay. So thank you for this. And amusement park is on social. Yeah, for sure. Yeah from AP and on Facebook it's amusement park ENT

ENT yeah okay beautiful all right so uh those that are still engaged here thank you and thank you for um all of the feedback that's come back and and the appreciation for what we're doing um you can find us more of these interviews on findingmastery.net you can hit me up at at Michael Gervais on social media. And I just want to thank you and thank everyone for building this community about finding mastery. You know, all this time, I didn't know we were live. Really?

I didn't know we were live. No, we're not live. Oh, okay. Yeah. Okay, cool. Either way it go. I didn't, it didn't matter. I thought you were doing it.

I mean, I didn't think it was a live broadcast, but the way you're talking, it sounds like it's a live broadcast. No, this is a way for me to condense time. Okay. If I got to go back and rerecord just a thank you and like find me on social, then,

you know, it takes too much, too much effort to do it. And there's, this is a passion project that we've, we've, we haven't switched on any sponsorship or any like real help. And,

and so I've got one guy Trevor and he is flat-out wonderful and genius of what he's doing that's your editor yeah okay and he's he's amazing so um yeah cool dig it man right on thank you All right. Thank you so much for diving into another episode of Finding Mastery with us. Our team loves creating this podcast and sharing these conversations with you. We really appreciate you being part of this community. And if you're enjoying the show, the easiest no-cost way to support is to hit the subscribe or follow button wherever you're listening.

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So seek assistance from your healthcare providers. Again, a sincere thank you for listening. Until next episode, be well, think well, keep exploring.