Finding Mastery with Dr. Michael Gervais - Julie Foudy, U.S. National Soccer Hall of Famer

Episode Date: May 1, 2019

This week’s conversation is with Julie Foudy, a former Captain of the USA Women’s Soccer Team.Julie had a sensational soccer career while playing on the USA National Team for 17 years. She was a captain for 13 of her 17 years with the team winning two Olympic Gold Medals and two World Cups.Julie finished her National Team career with 45 goals, 59 assists and 273 international appearances (caps) for the USA.Her 273 caps rank fourth in the world all-time, male or female.Julie was inducted in the US National Soccer Hall of Fame in 2007, alongside longtime teammate and friend, Mia Hamm. Julie and Mia were only the 6th and 7th women ever to be inducted into the Hall of Fame and the first and only ALL FEMALE induction class.Julie is now a television analyst and reporter for ESPN and the founder of the Julie Foudy Sports Leadership Academy.She also recently launched her new podcast, Laughter Permitted in March of 2019. Author of Choose to Matter: Being Fabulously and Courageously YOU._________________Subscribe to our Youtube Channel for more powerful conversations at the intersection of high performance, leadership, and meaning: https://www.youtube.com/c/FindingMasteryGet exclusive discounts and support our amazing sponsors! Go to: https://findingmastery.com/sponsors/Subscribe to the Finding Mastery newsletter for weekly high performance insights: https://www.findingmastery.com/newsletter Download Dr. Mike's Morning Mindset Routine! https://www.findingmastery.com/morningmindsetFollow us on Instagram, LinkedIn, and X.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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And I love that. Now, it's not a complete disregard. And I'll just say whatever I want to say, but I'm not consumed as so many people are in being interesting. I'm much Gervais, and by trade and training, a sport and performance psychologist, as well as the co-founder of Compete to Create. And the whole idea behind these conversations, behind this podcast is to learn from people who are switched on and understand and have a point of view and have dedicated their life efforts to exploring mastery. We want to dig in these conversations to understand like how do they organize their

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I'd love for you to go check them out. Get a free variety pack, a $25 value and 10% off for life when you head to davidprotein.com slash finding mastery. That's David, D-A-V-I-D protein, P-R-O-T-E-I-N.com slash finding mastery. Now this week's conversation is with Julie Foudy, a former captain of the USA women's soccer team, the Olympic and World Cup teams. And Julie has had a sensational soccer career while playing on the US national team for 17 years. She was a captain for 13 of those years, three-time Olympian with two gold medals and one silver, played in four World Cups, winning two of them. And I shouldn't say she won them. She was part of a team, an instrumental part of the team. So the team won

them and she was a massive contributor to those wins. Phenomenal understanding of the game, of winning, the process of supporting people to be their very best. Julie finished her national team career with 45 goals, 59 assists, and 273 international appearances in the soccer or global football world. They call those caps, 273 caps. And she did it all for the U S her 273 caps rank fourth in the world, all time, male or female. Julie was inducted into the U S national soccer hall of fame in 2007. That's right. Hall of fame alongside long-term teammate and friend Mia Hamm. And Julie and Mia were only the sixth and seventh women ever to be inducted into the Hall of Fame in the first and only all-female induction class. She's on it. She is a global contributor to the

game that she loves the most. And she's now a television analyst and reporter for ESPN and the founder of the Julie Foudy Sports Leadership Academy. We talk about that. We talk about the mission, what she's doing, the contribution that she's making to the next generation of young leaders and athletes. And she also recently launched her own podcast, Laughter Permitted. It's a great name for her podcast. You'll see why in a little bit. And I want to encourage you to go check that out for sure. So with that, let's jump right into this week's conversation with Julie Foudy. Julie, how are you? Michael! That's what's up. You have fire right away. That's so good. I'm doing great. Two days ago, I thought I was losing my voice. So I was in a mild panic.

That happens when you're in your forties nowadays. Oh my God. Like it seems like just seriously, it seems like just yesterday you're on the world cup ripping. Oh yeah. It seems, it seems the same to me. It doesn't know. Seriously. Does it seem that way? Or does it feel like lifetimes ago for you? Well, it's our 20th anniversary of that 1999 game. And we had a big reunion a couple weeks ago with all the old bags, as we call ourselves. And I kept looking around going, wait, what? 20 years? That can't be possible. No, it doesn't feel that long.

I have to actually like all my fingers count. Like how long have I been retired? I've been retired from soccer for 15 years. What? When's the last time you played? I'm talking about a pickup game. Like just went and kicked the ball around and did some fun, you know, whatever. Not a pickup game?

No, no, no. Like literally played? When's the last time that you had a pickup game? Oh, like a serious one? Mm-hmm. 15 years ago. So that's when it started. Yeah. So when you retired, you were done? That was it? No more? You know, I have a hard time going back to it in a casual way. There are teammates of mine,

like Joy Fawcett, lives locally. She's constantly texting me, hey, come on, let's go, let's play. We've got a co-ed game. I have a friend, Gwendolyn Oxenham, who has been texting me about playing locally as well. And for some reason, I'm like, yeah, I'm good. Because I don't think I could do it at the same level, and I'm a little too competitive for that. I would get angry. There's no chance you could do it at the same level, right? Yeah. No, there's a chance.

Oh yeah, there is. That's the problem. I love, okay. Did you always have that kind of fiery spirit? Like, you know, I'm going to play to my upper limits no matter what. Was that part of the DNA of what made you special? For sure. I mean, that's the common denominator of all of those players on the national team. When you look back, you go, okay, if you could pick one trait that everyone had, you had a fire burning inside you for sure. Feistiness. What was yours? Pull our sleeves up, get gritty. What was your fire? Where'd it come from? You know, what's so weird is, you know, it's not like I was born in an underserved community or had hardship in my life. You know, the stories where you go, oh, well, that makes sense. Right. Didn't have the family, didn't have the back, the backing, didn't have the support.

This was their way out. Not that case, you know, white girl, middle-class family, great family, youngest of four. I, I don't, I think it was, it was just me. It was an eight. I just love to compete. I was scrappy. I was feisty and it was never my parents pushing me to do it. No. Okay. So middle-class three olders and they were male or female? Two older brothers and an older sister. Okay. Were they competitive? Totally. Are you guys competitive with each other? Uh, this is why I almost lost my voice the other day. It was a cornhole competition over Easter. Okay. Oh, my God. I mean, it gets aggressive, Michael. I mean, so one of the things on selection, so I've been spending time the last eight years on selection with the Seattle Seahawks,

and we love the young third-order, fourth-order siblings because we know that they had to fight for peanut butter and jelly. They had to fight for the extra whatever. They had to fight for everything. And so is that true for you too? Oh yeah. Food on the table, the meat, the eggs and the Easter egg hunt, you know, pushing each other down the stairs. Did people say that you competed everything? Like, like they roll their eyes at it? Like, Oh myie's here like oh god yeah but but that was that was everyone around you right like if you look on the national team i think that's why that group got along so well finally you were amongst peers who accepted that competitive edge it wasn't

i mean mia talks about this all the time it wasn, oh, there's that girl that's really competitive and cries when she loses in practice. It was like, hell yes, I'm around all these women that it's okay to be a woman and be competitive. And so it wasn't looked at as, oh, it's that girl. It was embraced. How did your coach pull that together? Because that was new. Maybe not new. Maybe that's not the right way to say it. But it was definitely something that caught the world by storm was just how radical you guys were, you know, whether it was ripping off your shirt or fist pumping. Like the whole thing was just amazing. You know, so how did your coach pull that together? Um, he, uh, the coach of our 1999 team, Tony DeChico, um, was a master at not just being

a good manager coach, but a great people manager. And as we know, right, there's great coaches. And then there are great coaches who can also manage people. And those are few and far between. And he had the ability to allow us to be us, which we were very strong personalities, very competitive. There was practices where we literally be going at each other. And he let let it happen because he knew at the end of practice, we'd be hugging each other and laughing about it. Okay. How did, how did, how did that happen? Like, so that's like this deep care, high regard, but an acceptance and a desire to get right on the edge day in and day out. And how did that happen? How did he allow that to happen?

Or create that? Right. Well, it was conscious for sure. Like everything we did in training was competitive based. It was keeping score. It was playing lines. It was this is where you fall on the speed ladder. This is where you fall on the one V one ladder. You know, this is where you fall offensively, defensively. Um, and so for those who didn't swim in that ocean often, you were eaten by the sharks, right? But if you had grown up with that tendency, then, which is why I say that was the common denominator. Those people are the ones who survived on that national team. And, um, and so he didn't have to necessarily beg it out of us. It was just, let's create this atmosphere and then we're going to make it a healthy one. Cause we've also seen there's a, there's a wholesome discontent to that, right? That is negative and it's energy sucking and it's draining and it tears the team apart because it's all about what I'm getting out of it and what I'm succeeding at and what goals I'm scoring. And we had this really wholesome discontent of driving each other and competitive as hell. But

at the end of the day, the team's got to be winning. Do you remember a time in your career life when you said, this isn't for me? It's too hard. It's too much. I'm over my skis. Who am I fooling? Do you have any of those experiences? 15, Mia Hamm, Christine Lilly, another one who played more games than anyone ever has internationally. She was 16. I was 16. And that's because back then there wasn't youth national teams to play on. So there was a reason for that. But when you're 15 and 16, jumping onto a full women's national team, even though back then in the 80s, it was still new, right? We didn't really know what we were getting into because it was the first generation of players coming through. But yeah, you felt like, what in the hell am I doing here? I've just gone from playing, you know, high school ball, to now you want me to play with the United States of America on the back of my jersey,

you know, a big USA. And that was scary, for sure. And it took some years to feel like you were fine. But again, I think that's the beauty of team sports. You're in it with a group that's feeling similar, a similar way. And so you can share that amongst your, your peers and understand that you're not alone in that regard and they can help you through it. You know, we had, so we did a bunch of work. I was fortunate enough to work with the Olympic volleyball team from the last quad and the women's team. And so there's two ways to approach the games. As you will recognize this, you can approach it as if, as if it was the biggest game in the world, right? And it's a circus in of itself and there's nothing like it. So prepare for that, or you treat it as if it's another game, right? And the boundaries

don't change. The consequences don't change. Fill in the blanks. And how did you go into the games? Which way did you take it? Yeah. Wait, I was just going to say, which way did you take it? Yeah. Okay. So, um, you're not gonna change your answer, right? I'm not, I'm not, I know my answer. Okay, good. So I took it as we approached it. It wasn't just a mic driven initiative, but we approached it as, okay, the ball's going to stay the same, the same number of people on the court and the boundary the same, you know, so let's play this one play at a time. Like we know how, and then we had a contingency, like we planned for what it was going to be like to have more family members at the game than any other family. And what's it going to be like to have more cameras. And we built in a plan for the family members. Right. And so we had a structure in our day. It was wake up food,

movement, training, rehab, prehab, and then nutrition, and then games, games at night. And then on off days, every other off day, we'd have a fan, some family time for an hour and a half. And that was it. So we scheduled it that way. So that's how we went at it. Right. And, um, but I want to tell you a funny story that where it didn't work quite right. So, um, so anyways, so that's how I've traditionally approached it, but, um, it is your funny story. Wait, you can't leave me hanging on the end. I'm not going to tell you my story until you tell me like how you came, right. This is, this is all right. You promised to tell your story. I will come back for it. Yes.

So we approached it with a combined approach like that, but more to the side of treat it like it's a circus and be prepared for the circus. Right. And have, to your point, have a plan in place for how to deal with the distractions. Because mind you, we had never in the 96 Olympics, that was the first time women's soccer was ever admitted into the Olympics. And it was in Atlanta. It was in the United States. And so Colleen Hacker, who played the role of Michael Gervais for our team, she's amazing. She said, listen, we're going to come in with a plan. We're going to come

in and minimize any distraction. We don't want you worrying about where your parents are, where they're sitting, how they're getting to the game. Right. So to the point where she sat the parents and the family down, which was the best thing she ever did free on their own and basically said, if you if you have questions about this, you go to this said, if you have questions about this, you go to this person. If you have questions about this, you go to this person. If you have questions about this, you go to this person. You never go to your child, ever.

Yeah, we did the same thing. Good job, Dr. Hacker. That's rad. To the point where my parents at one point, all of a sudden, I heard them whispering to each other when we were having one of our family visits. And they're looking kind of nervous. And I was like, what's going on? And they're and they're like nothing nothing and i'm like what what is going on and they're like no no no we're not supposed to talk to you take any issues to you

i was like oh my god i started cracking up i'm like just tell me they're like the place where we're staying is being overrun by red ants and we're getting eaten alive. Oh my God, yeah. We had a game in Florida. They were actually staying at our house where we trained. And I just started cracking up. But I said, not my problem. Khalid's right. Khalid, yeah, that's right.

One of the great distractions is family. And they mean well, right? Like totally mean well. And it's like, hey, I lost my pass and I don't want to bother you, but I'm not sure how to get in now. You know, it's like, oh, my God, because Aunt Susie's never been to a game. And so she didn't know she needed the pass, right? And, you know, all of that. So it's the greatest playground for them and the biggest job opportunity for you.

Well, the thing you don't realize too, I think as an athlete going into an Olympics, because obviously we had never been in one. The thing that blew me away is if you said, if you were like boarding an airplane, for example, and we were with the national team and we're in our gear, right? And they'd say, oh, you know, who are you guys? And in the past we would say, oh, we're in our gear right and they'd say oh you know who are you guys and in the past we would say oh we're the u.s national soccer team they'd be like oh that's awesome but if you said we are the u.s olympic soccer team they were like oh my god they'd sing the national anthem to you the whole plane would break out in standing ovation. There was this patriotism around the Olympics and that word that I was like, holy cow. Oh my gosh. That adds a lot of pressure as well because everyone wants a piece of that.

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Again, that's Felix Gray. You spell it F-E-L-I-X-G-R-A-Y.com and use the code F mastery 20 at felixgray.com for 20% off. Back to the philosophy. We treat it like it's every other game. And what we were trying to inoculate was that thought that just because we're in a different location, that it's going to be that the mechanics of the game and the mechanics of the psychology of the person need to change. And so philosophically, like, I really liked that approach.

And you didn't, you didn't tell me your funny story. I'm getting there. Like, it's not really that funny. It's more, you know, it's a funny lesson. Yeah, I know. I am not as funny as you. It better be really funny. Yeah. Well, considering I'm hanging up, considering you and I did a, uh, what was the piece we did? Like should there be a fourth medal? Should it be wood around your neck? Oh, my God. A big chunk of wood. That was ridiculous. I mean really seriously.

Like that's got to be the worst thing. No. Is it worth winning? I think the piece was is it worse to win silver or fourth? What did we agree on? Well, I definitely agree that there's no such thing as a fourth place. Yeah. Right?

Like you and I both nod our head to that, right? We do not reward mediocrity in this society. Fourth in the world? Go home. Come on. What? That is awful. Yeah, but silver is brutal.

You had a silver. I like to call it white gold, thanks. Do you? Yeah. Does it still sting? No, it had a silver. I like to call it white gold. Thanks. Do you? Yeah. Does it still sting? Oh, no, it doesn't sting. It kills me. Second in the world. Second in the world. It depends on how you how you lose. That's my theory, right? If we had been beaten, it was to Norway. I call them the Viking bitches after that game. Am I allowed to swear on your podcast? You can say anything you want. That's pretty funny.

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Paul was swearing up a storm. Paul Raybould, legend. Yeah. He is a legend. I listened to that one. That was recent.

That was a good one. It's how you lose, right? If we had been beaten by the Viking bitches by 6- six nil i'd be like good on you you know you won it's good but we we killed them we played one of the best finals of our lives and we ended up losing it it's so you what i call the unbeautiful game of soccer well you played your best but they played a better game um we played really well and had some shortcomings in different areas and they capitalized on those mistakes. So maybe they had a few chances, they finished them and we had 700 chances and did not finish them. So it, I mean, in that soccer, but because of that, it just,

it stays with you forever. You know, the stay with you forever. i wanted to talk about that but the in nfl i think it's like six five or six plays determine maybe even less determine the outcome yeah five or six plays in a game in a game yeah so we play i think there's like 60 snaps or something like that and um offense defense you know some combined number there. And I'm a little off on that math, but there's only a handful of plays that determine the game. Yeah. Meaning that if you capitalize on those, then, you know, you're putting yourself in a really good position, better odds. Okay. So back to my story. I know you're not going to let my, you know, like that hanging Chad just hang out there. So we're at the games every everyone is switched on like the vibe is right um so collective mindset is right the mission is clear systems are in place

like the whole thing is great and we get to practice switched on fire the whole thing is right then we get to the tournament and it's warmups and we planned for, okay, so listen, if there's, if there is extra adrenaline, because you've looked at the games as being something bigger and the strategy that we went into wasn't quite right. Okay. And you thought it was too big, which by definition, by the way, means that you feel small. So we worked for four years to punch that thought in the mouth, right? Is that why would you ever need to feel small? Right? So we built from the inside out, you know, big time so that people can stand on their own two feet in any environment. And so if, if that does happen, you know, we've got a plan for it. So come back

from a quick little huddle and one of the gals says, I was great. Everything, you know, we got to plan for it. So come back from a quick little huddle. And one of the gals says, I was great. Everything, you know, the crowd was filling up. Everything was perfect. And then I looked down and I saw the rings underneath my feet. There's a volleyball. The Olympic ring. Yeah, the Olympic ring. Everything changed.

You know, I said, oh my. So we're working on like an activation scale, one to 10. And you're trying to find a sweet spot of five. She said, I was at 11. I didn't know, like, you know i said oh my so we're working on like an activation scale one to ten and you're trying to find a sweet spot of five she said i was at 11 i didn't know like this you know and the the great thing about the investment she had done in her internal you know her mindset and everything she was laughing about it like she knew like in a good laugh she was like it was crazy all the sudden in two seconds just like we talked about bang my whole system was activated my heart was pounding you know what? I knew though I was at an 11, but you only told me there was a scale to 10, you know? So, you know, it was, it was great. What do you bring it? What do you do to bring it back down to a five? Oh yeah. Well, the strategies are self-talk and breathing. And

those are the two basic strategies there. And then remind yourself about like zoom out and get the perspective. Like it's one play at a time, one game at a time, all that stuff. So she, but her laughter, her laughter was the big one. Yeah. That's so good. That's so healthy. That was us. Like we, we had a team that just laughed our way through pressure. Um, wait one quick funny story too. I'm going to match your funny story with a funny story. See, mine's not very funny though. Like that was just like – That's cute. Okay, cute. Thank you for that.

This is very cute. So 96 Olympics, Colleen Hacker always tells the story. To this day, she will not tell me, which drives me nuts. I figure if I tell it enough, finally this person will leak it. She won't tell me who the player is, but we're warming up for the final, like the Olympic final. Um, we've just beaten those Viking bitches that I talked about in the semifinal cause they beat us the year before in the world cup. Very happy about that. Now we're playing China in the final. And, um, and so we are warming up and she tells this story of how one of the key players, a starter on the national team, catches her eye on warm up.

And she goes, and I'm standing on the sidelines, you know, trying, you know, to, you know, just be present, but, you know, play it cool. And she said, and this player looks at me and she starts making a beeline to me. And she goes, you know, it doesn't take a lot of knowledge to know that a key player making a beeline to the sports psychologist before the final is not a good thing. And so our mantra during the whole Olympics had been, if there's an issue, park it. That's what, that's what Kaleem would always say. Like park it, we'll deal with it later. It's not your problem, right? yeah park it park it yeah so we were always like anything would come up we're like park it park it we would make fun of it you know we're parking it colleen we're parking it we're not running at you yeah it was like one of those you know you have permission to park it like it's not your problem don't deal with it now deal with it post olympics

so this this woman comes over to colleen and colleen goes, how's it going? She's like this and this and this and this. And she's all animated. And Colleen says, you know what I'm going to tell you. And the player goes, you're going to tell me to park it. And Colleen goes, I am. And the player goes, the parking lot is full. That's exactly how it feels though, isn't it? Colleen, what did you say? What did you say? The parking lot is full. That's so good.

She goes, I said calmly, well then go build another garage. Oh, that's great. That is great. The player started cracking up and then ran off and we ended up winning the gold so i give full credit that oh nice job yeah okay i'm not kidding i give her a lot of credit a lot of credit i mean there's there's another handful of people that are part of the win yeah yeah okay so um i had a moment uh similar to that where that, where I had somebody, uh, this was during a Superbowl and on sidelines. And we have, um, one of our stud athletes running beeline, same type of thing, running

off the sidelines, helmet, massive human being. And, um, it's a little bit different in my context because I'm so embedded in the culture that it's not like, oh, there's the shrink. And so it's a little bit different that way. Not that everyone does know, of course, the work we're doing, but it's really an integrated piece of work. That being said, running off the sidelines, big eye says, tell me what to think. Wait, wait, hold on.

I'm thinking to myself, what is going on here? Like you want me to give you a thought? He said, yeah. He said, tell me what to think. Tell me what to think. Like completely lost. Like the parking lot is full. Tell me what to think. And I thought to myself, wow, I have, I have really done a disservice. And so we looked at each other and he's like, no, I'm serious. Tell me what to think. And I go, dude, you have to figure that. I can't give you a thought. Like you have to figure that out. I said, and he says, okay, tell me, give me a song then. I said, well, what is your favorite song?

So we're having this banter. This is like during the Superbowl. How about it? Like, it is funny where we go. You can't, you cannot prepare for those things. He's like, that is not what I wanted to hear, Michael. I want a thought. I want a song. I want something. Tell me I'm great. He's like, that is not what I wanted to hear, Michael. I want a thought. I want a song.

I want something. Tell me I'm great. That's what he wanted, right? Just a bandit. Tell me I'm great. Okay. So when has there been a time when you have been over your skis,

when you look back and you say, I was a mess and you sorted it out, whether it went well or didn't, it doesn't matter. But like, has there been a time when you said, Oh my God well or didn't, it doesn't matter. But like, has there been a time when you said, Oh my God, what have I gotten myself into? Never.

Honestly, of course there has. Yeah. It could be sport or parenting. It could be anything. Oh God, parenting. I get that way a lot. No, sports with the early years of the national team. I, you know, I was a, um, I was a very, as I said, self-driven kid, um, pretty confident. And as I think most elite athletes are, they, they are one of the better ones on their team throughout their career. So it's never like you're having to deal with like, Oh, I'm not getting playing time. You're one of the better ones on their team throughout their career. So it's never like you're having to deal with like, Oh, I'm not getting playing time. You're one of the stars kind of coming through. And so, um, and when I get on the national team, I'm, you know, now amongst a bunch of stars who were the best on their team. And suddenly, and I'm young and suddenly I'm like,

what in the hell am I doing here? And now I have all these self-doubts I have never experienced in my life before. And honestly, like that took a good 10. I mean, I played for the national team for almost two decades. It took about half my time on the national team to feel like I belonged. And the first half of that was an unhealthy. I don't belong. Right.

The second half was a healthy. OK, I belong, but I'm hungry still to get better. But the first half, what snapped me out of that going back to Colleen Hacker is I sat down with her one day and I said, and I'm not like one that like, you know, is comfortable bearing all in and I don't sit with therapists, right? I don't have a lot of issues, so I don't feel like I need to, you know, uh, mentally, which is a great thing. I feel blessed for that. But I sat with her and I said, I don't, I don't like this. Like, I'm not used to this. These butterflies are driving me frigging crazy and I'm going into games and maybe there's a sponsor in the stands, right? Or, uh, a member, a friend, a family member. And I'm, and I'm going into games and maybe there's a sponsor in the stands, right? Or a member,

a friend, a family member. And I'm, and I'm thinking about that and I'm wanting to perform for them. And I don't feel like I'm, um, and I'm overthinking it. I wasn't an analyzer in that way at all. And I don't like these butterflies. And the first thing she said to me, which is one of the great lessons of my life is she said, love the butterflies. I said, no, no, no, no. I do not love the butterflies. I hate the butterflies. Love the butterflies. It means you care. It means it matters. It's visceral. You want this. And I'm like, ah, okay, I get that. And she goes, now just teach him to fly in formation. And I said, well, how do I do that, sister? That's great, but I don't know how to do it.

That's part of the problem here. And, uh, and she goes, um, and again, one of the great things, which is such a skillset that you don't know at a young age that you have. She said, you know, you can only process one thought at a time in your brain. So you choose what it is. And I said, what? She said, true. Fact. Scientifically proven.

There's only one thought that can go through your brain. You decide what it is. So if you're in the middle of the game and you start to feel that anxiousness and you start to go in that downward spiral, I want you to physically do something to snap you out of it. So she goes, I see you have a hairband on your wrist. And I still to this day, I wear them all the time just because I like to keep my hair up. that on your wrist as a physical reminder to snap you out of it mentally and get those, that, that nervous energy channeled information. And it worked like in it. And so I would find myself in the middle of a damn game. I'd be like snapping my wristband, like snap out of it. You're fine. Let's go. Where would, where would you go? It is it's re it's awareness first, and then the skill to

come back to something more productive, right? So where would you go? What were the thoughts that worked for you? And when you say them out loud, they're probably not going to have half the juice that they have when you say them to yourself internally. But what are mechanically are those thoughts that you would say to yourself? The negative thoughts you mean? No, no, no. I was going positive and negative. Like what are the thoughts that work for you first? I wanted to hear that kind of stuff. So the positive would just be, you're fine. You belong. You're going to be fine. You're good enough. You know, it's kind of that, you know, that Saturday night light,

Saturday night. People Saturday night people like me, you know, Stuart Smalley stuff. It's like, gosh, darn it. I mean, it was that kind of stuff of, because I always went to, you know, God, the downward spiral is, God, you're too slow. Uh, you know, I was never a fast player. You're too slow. You don't, um, your, your touch today sucks. What are you doing to help the team? I mean, those things that everyone goes through. And when you suddenly realize like, no, you control that spiral, do not let yourself go down there. Um, it really was a transformational thought. I try and share that all the time with kids because everyone thinks they're alone in that. And it's like, no, that's very normal. You're going to be fine. That's awesome. That is what you just described, like self-talk,

right? So self-talk is one of the more powerful skills and tools that we have. And it is programmable, you know, and it's just like software that runs the hardware and just like a computer. This is an oversimplification, but the software is, you know, like you can't run your laptop or whatever you use if, you know, if you don't have great software, but who programmed your software, your mom, your dad, your aunt Susie, you know, muscle and fitness magazine, shape magazine, US soccer magazine, your coaches, your friends, like, God help us.

Like it was patch, it's patchy and it's buggy and it's not very sophisticated most of the time. And then we're thrown out into some situations that have real stakes on the line. And then, and then that's what tests pressure tests, the software, the hardware is really usually solid, you know, the way that the brain works and the way that the body responds to the environment is usually pretty solid. But the software is completely programmable, which takes, as an adult, real work to reprogram, to know where those holes and patches and bugs are, and then to do the kind of roll-up-the-sleeves work to reprogram. So it sounds like you learned a lot of that stuff through sport. I did.

Absolutely. Which is why I think it's one of the greatest gifts. Yeah. You think sport is one of the great gifts? Oh, yeah. What about people that don't play sports? How do you help them? What would you imagine?

How would you support your kids or whatever that don't play sport? Well, I, I mean, it's one, one of the reasons why I've been such an advocate for girls playing sports for sure, for so many years and for title nine and for, um, women getting active, because I feel like this is a gift that men have been experienced for a lot of years because you, you take those high pressure situations and you, um, you use those in life. No, no question. I mean, I can walk into a room full of thousands of people to give a speech and I enjoy it. It's not even a nervous feeling anymore. It's like, Oh, this is awesome. This is great. And that comes from playing. Right. So, um, so it's, it's one in, in so many ways in what I do now as a journalist and what, uh, I do with my parenting. I mean, I, I look back on all these lessons I've gleaned from,

from playing. Um, for those who don't play sports, I say, good luck to you. I mean, good luck. You have built your whole life around competitiveness. Yeah. Are you, are you intellectually competitive as well? Obviously you're highly physically competitive. Are you intellectually competitive? Uh, how does that manifest itself? What would you describe as intellectually competitive? Somebody says something that you think is kind of stupid. Do you just nod like that was stupid? Or do you look at them like, how can you say that? We're going to talk about that. And you're going to try to compete to figure out like why, you know. I think I probably fall in the middle of that spectrum.

And it obviously depends on what the situation is. Are you in a situation where you could say, no, that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard? You dumb shit. Or do you have to kind of just like, as we do on TV, sometimes we nod. Okay. Did they just say that? I think I'm intellectually curious. Finding Mastery is brought to you by Cozy Earth.

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Now, if we flip it on its head though and we're like, listen, I want to – I know some stuff, but there's way more. I don't know. And I want to learn. I want to, I want to figure that out with people. There's incredible freedom by being a beginner. That's the freedom I've come to in, I would say probably starting in my late thirties where, and I think it's, I talk about this all the time with my kids. It's like this gift of, I don't, I don't really care what people think about me anymore. And obviously you want them to respect you, but there is a freedom of expression of thought of, um, getting out of your comfort zone that in the past you start going, wait, second guessing everything, or maybe I'm not saying this the right way, or maybe this opinion isn't well

formulated. I don't do that anymore with stuff. Um, and I, I love that now it's not a complete disregard and I'll just say whatever I want to say, but like, I don't, I'm not consumed as so many people are in being interesting. I'm much more consumed with being interested. There you go. Yeah. So you have figured out that freedom where you've decoupled what you do from who you are. And then what you do if you're exploring what you don't know, sounds like you've got some freedom there. I think that's why it's so hard for, obviously, as you live, so many athletes to walk away from it, right? Because it's who they are. Yeah.

Oh, my. It's like – Not what they do. Yeah, that's right. And it's even more complicated in young talent. And this is for academics, arts, sport as well. But when people are talented at a young age, their identity fuses with what they do. And so to rip that apart feels like a, you know, it's supposed to be somewhat eloquent as stages of life progress. But when there's this miring

infusion at an early age, it's really hard. How did you do it? Well, I never identified as only soccer. And I credit my parents for that, right? If you grow up in a family where, as we see nowadays, right, the modern family and parents, they're hovering, and this is more about the parent than it is the kid. And so all the pressure the kid feels, or they're specializing in one sport at an early age. And so all your eggs are in one basket. Tell me you're not a fan of specialization. Not at all. I hate it.

Why are parents doing it? Because they want that scholarship or they want to chase that elite athlete. And it's like the complete opposite of what will get you there, I think. How many of your friends that played on the team or that you played with are crazy parents? None. The higher you go up in sport, right? Like the more you realize how fricking hard it is to do this thing and how long you have to do it

to have any sense of mastery. The crazy parent is the parent who didn't play at a high level and who wants it for their kids. So you're living it through the parent. My parents did not give a rat's ass about my soccer, never came to games. I mean, my mom didn't even know like what position I played. And so it was never about them. And they didn't identify, nor did I, that soccer was my life. It was a piece of my life that I loved and cherished. But I was so much more curious in, I mean, by the end of my career, if it wasn't an Olympic game, this is terrible to say, but it's the truth. If it wasn't an Olympic game or World Cup game where everything was on the line and everything mattered, I was like, can we please do something with

interest here? This is yawn fest. And that's a terrible – I was bored. It's terrible. That's what I do. I was like, I got to get out. I got to do something else that's challenging. How did that work with your early idea that you had that – I'll put a label on it, a handle on imposter syndrome.

Like do I fit? Do I matter? Do I belong? They're going to find out. I don't know what I'm doing. Like how did that – how did those two ideas match? Well, that was my early years. I mean this is the beauty of having like a 20-year career with the national team.

Yeah, right. Yeah. Right? Right. Is like you grow in who you are, but you also you you start to become addicted to that high pressure in an Olympics where everything matters, like or in a World Cup where everything matters. And I want those games. I want that feeling. I don't want a friendly against Mexico. That means nothing. And yes, it's important to my training and to the process. And I get that. Right. But I want that adrenaline that's racing through my veins that I'm not getting now by just playing on the United States for a friendly. And that sounds terrible. But I think when you were at it as long as we were, it's like I want it to be for all or nothing. That's what I, that's what I live for at the end. Okay. So that as a philosophy for life, let's say if you could pull out of that and dampen the adrenaline just a little bit, right. But you could pull out of that and have that great intensity for every moment of your life. And now I'm being, um, in some ways I'm being idealistic, but in other ways, maybe not. So what if you could have that way of living and that became a model for you, like that

everything matters, every word that you choose, every thought that you have, every interaction that you exchange? What if that became a way of living? And you might say, Mike, I feel like I actually live that way. No, that would not be healthy. That is not how you of living. And you might say, Mike, I feel like I actually live that way. No, that would not be healthy. That is not how you're living. Okay. So could you imagine that? Why would that not be healthy? For me, that, drugs probably. Um, but as we know, that's what I'm saying. Like, yeah, right. But I'm talking about dampening the adrenaline where

you don't have that adrenaline, but you're, you're switched on. You're yeah. Like, so it's not that kind of wide eyed thing, but it is, um, deep feeling like it matters. Everything you do, everything you do matters. Yeah. And that to me actually is mastery. Oh, keep going. Yeah. Because, um, I mean, I think people often define a master as someone who's found success. And I think that's the wrong definition. I take more stock and significance rather than success. And it's one of the things that I continue to strive for. I don't want to be someone that is just successful. I want to be someone that's significant, that's done something that matters, right? It's the eternal and internal struggle I have with, is what I'm doing good enough right now? Like, I'm making a great living.

I love my work at ESPN. I've been able to do all these different things. But like, in the grand scheme of things, is it mattering? Like am I making a difference in a significant way where I'm helping humanity or I'm helping the world in a way? And that to me, the people who are significant in whatever their craft is, not successful but significant, that to me is mastery. And is that based on what other people think of that person or it's some sort of – no, you're not saying that at making this world a better place right you're you're making it better for the next generation you're uh creating something that's going to help people you're um creating more tolerance you're leaving kindness whatever it is like it doesn't have to be you know it's one of the things we talk about so much at our Leadership Academy with young girls, that leadership isn't positional, it's personal. And that being what your business card says, CEO, president, politician. And I call bullshit on all that, right? It's about what you're doing. It's not what your title says. I love it. What happens for athletes is that it gets tricky. Athletes

want to lead, but if they're not the most talented, they mute themselves. And because oftentimes the most talented get the biggest voice because people are looking up to them. And that doesn't mean though, that they should by any means be leading other people. Have you seen those athletes? Oh yeah. Pounding their chest in the middle of the huddle. I was that athlete. No, I mean, and I think like to your point. No, this was to your point about positional. Yeah, but I mean like in terms of athletes who don't feel like they can not leading, right? Yes.

I love to take that athlete and say, ah, but you can, and here's how. And you shine a light on people like Mia Hamm, for example, who is one of the quietest and most giving and kind athletes I know, who was thrust into this spotlight of being our superstar when it's the last thing she wanted. You know, how many athletes do we know that go, yes, give me that. I want that attention. Mia was like, hell no, I do not want that. I'm not comfortable accepting awards. I'm not comfortable speaking in front of people. And yet she was the most unselfish giving player that always cared about the team first. And so her leadership, when I tell kids all the time, is her leadership was very different. It was very personal.

It was, you know, walking off the field with her hand around a player, talking to them one-on-one or at halftime. Or she's not the one that's going to be giving the fire-up speech. But you don't need 20 players giving that fire up speech, right? The beauty of leadership is that you can do it in so many different ways. And her cerebral, thoughtful, private way was such a huge lesson for me who was nicknamed Loudy Foudy of, oh, okay, maybe I should shut up once in a while and just listen okay so when you're talking about impact i want to flip back to your other conversation are you looking for impact

deep with few or a little bit more shallow across many when you think about your life efforts and that shallow doesn't mean bad you know that's like everybody has read my book across the planet so to speak or like really deep with handfuls i had never thought about it in that way i mean i am for sure on the track of a probably more deep with few um and i think it's good that i've never thought about it. I'm just now talking out loud, but I think it's good that I haven't thought about like, oh, I need to be impacting millions of people. And my feeling has always been in what we've run these leadership academies for the last decade and a half almost. When I retired, I thought,

gosh, we should be giving kids the gift of sport, of course, and teaching them to be better athletes. But really, the gift of sports is, you know, all these other things we've talked about, right? And this confidence and this foundation for who you are and getting out of your comfort zone and taking risks and all these things that for young women are sometimes hard to do. So I'm going to focus on young women and I'm going to try and pass on those nuggets of wisdom. And so one of the things we always talk about with them is that it doesn't have to be you changing the world overnight, right? And not to get cliches, but it's like that you drop that pebble in a pond, right? And that ripple just grows.

And if you start with a small ring and you start in the middle of that bullseye and then the ring starts to broaden and now you're into your, uh, your team and you're impacting your team, not just yourself. And now you're impacting your school and your hallways and how you act at school. And then you start impacting your community. And eventually that ring goes out and that ripple goes out and you're impacting so many people in your life so i think small steps are what lead us to actually a better life my god i feel like i am running for Miss America. Jesus. You just did it.

That's very Confucius of you as well. I mean, it's the principles of Confucianism. Oh, is it? Mm-hmm. Look at you, deep. Deep thoughts. I'm going to start calling myself Julie Confucius. Where do you get confused?

What do you get confused? Like what really, what do you, what do you, what do you struggle with? Um, where do I get confused? What do I struggle with? Oh God. Let's see. Um, I don't mean to get religious on you, but you may have to take this whole segment out. No, no. I mean, it's one of the more, the most influential people in the world have been spiritual leaders. I mean, if you think about the 2 billion people that said Jesus got it right, that's 2 billion people that are Christians. Yeah. So it is one of the most powerful thinking patterns and structures in the world, whether it's Islam, Confucius, Buddha. You know, I'd like it. It is governing our thinking patterns globally. Well, and I was raised Catholic, right?

CCD did not go to Catholic school, but every Sunday might have been the donuts they were giving away as well that lured me in. But, you know, very strong Catholic, Irish Catholic family, my parents to this day, every Sunday they're at church or more. And none of the four of us kids turned out to be strong Catholics. And I look back on that and it's something I still struggle with because I was raised very spiritual. And I'm very thankful for that because, um, I feel like it instilled in me this underlying principle of just be good to people, right? Don't judge, lend a hand. I mean, all of these principles, all these commandments. And what I struggle with in the second half of my life is, one, Catholicism and some of the issues the Catholic Church has gone through, I struggle with. And two, honestly, and this is

not a red or a blue thing or a political thing, but I feel like in this country, in this time, the very religious principles I was born and raised to believe to be certainties, right? What I just said, be kind, extend a hand. I feel like those are being thrown out the window by many churches in this country for, you know, various reasons, whether it's they want more conservative judges, they're pro-life, anti-abortion. But how do we reconcile that we're throwing out all these other things? Like, what about the other 10 commandments? Like, be kind to your neighbor, extend a hand, don't judge, right? Why are, why do we lose sight of all of that kindness to put all our eggs in one basket? And that I struggle with mightily

to the point where I say to my parents, I, you know, I'm sorry, but I, I, I, I don't get it. You know, I don't get that. This is what I view religion nowadays is this hypocrisy that, and it's not obviously across the board, but it's, it's happening on a larger scale in so many different areas. Religion is struggling mightily. The Christian community is struggling. And so we're seeing, like, you know how I think about the sexual misconduct and the abuse that took place there is that if that was any other institution, and I was raised in the Catholic Church as well,

if that was any other institution, a hospital setting, a government wing, a university setting, it would be disbanded. It would not be tolerated. You can't do that. And a human level, at a legal level, of course, you can't, it would be dismantled. Yeah. And hide it for years and years and still to this day. And however, I question everything at this point about the lessons, the stories, the teachings, the methods. And, um, you know, I went to a Loyola Marymount, which was a Jesuit school in college. Yeah. As you well know. And so, uh, like they'll, they'll beat you. Like theesuits are gnarly like they are incredibly tough humans intellectually and so i i came out of the loyal and merrimont university i was like

oh fish on friday what are we doing just eating is it because someone owned the some bishop owned the wharf is that what we're doing is that where that law came from and so like it really when you really dig it gets very confusing so i'm confused there's so many good things to religion right i mean so mind you they have started many wars on principle i mean i was i just spent time in the middle east and for uh special olympics for Special Olympics coverage in Abu Dhabi. And some of the kindest, nicest people that study a completely different faith, Islam, than what I'm familiar with in the United States. But there's a commonality of kindness and all these things we learn about religion that I feel like gets lost today in so much of what we do.

Why can't we strip it down to that and realize we're all much more alike than we are different? And so anyways, I could go on forever on that. But it's a recent struggle, so that's why it's top of mind. Apologies. Yeah, it's good. Not to take a turn like that with this one. Well, I think you're speaking for many, right? This is a conversation, um, with many families, right? Raised one way. And when this generation, our generation is watching the dismantling of, um, a spiritual foundation and a practice that has been around for thousands of

years so it is it's crazy so it's a tough time for that so i know i appreciate that depth where do we go from here okay i've got questions for you um as i've had this whole time with you i love your energy i think you've got an incredible fun, energetic, you're switched on. No, it's always been that way. So how do you create that zest and zeal? What do you do to recover properly, to really flourish in the way that you do? Are you sleeping right? Do you eat like a stud? I sleep great. Do you? How many hours? I'm not a napper at all. Never have been. But I usually get about seven to eight. I much prefer eight. I find I'm a much healthier human being at eight. Seven and a half feels right to me. Yeah.

I'm, I'm great at eight. I ended up more often getting about seven and a half, but the kids help with that, right? When they go to bed at eight 39, I'm like, I'm out. I'm with you. Let's go. Okay, good. Okay. So you get your, you compete to get your sleep in. Uh-huh. Yeah. I, I, I, uh, in college was much more late night, late morning. Now I'm like early to bed, early to rise. I love that like hour of solitude before anyone rises and I can just lock in on whatever I want to work usually. Okay. So before you get into a couple more tactics, so sleep is big.

I want to get a couple more. How do you think about flourishing? Like I see your energy like you are flourishing. And so when you think about that concept, what comes up? Hmm. I don't – it's not a conscious thing. It's a, um, I, I, I seek adventures and other people that love to find the fun and things. It's how I always have been. Um, I'm super grateful. What I've realized in my second half of my life is that, um, I'm very mentally healthy, which is not always the case with a lot of people.

Right. And and so I've had friends who struggle with depression or darker thoughts or and it's not by anything that they've done necessarily. It's just their brain is wired that way. And so I'm really grateful. I wake up every day grateful. Like I wake up and I go, I mean, look at my life. Like I'm in a great climate in Southern California. We have a great house. Our kids are healthy.

Like I love what I do. I've been able to merge work with, um, play and it all kind of seems the same. Like work doesn't seem like work. And, um, and I'm conscious of that. Like that's a very conscious thought, like, damn, I'm lucky. And maybe that's part of it. It's just gratitude, right? And recognizing the science of gratitude is ridiculous. Like it's so strong. And you know, what's cool about gratitude is that you, we can practice it. So it sounds like you're practicing it every day, just like you practice, you know, tapping balls or whatever, and putting them in the corner, whatever you were doing on the field, like same, same thing with gratitude and mental, all mental skills are trainable.

And gratitude certainly is one of them. And one of the simple, easy mechanical practices is, um, at the end of the day, just anchor three things that you're grateful for. You know, that simple little thing. And if you can share it with another person, it's amplified. If you can write it down, it's even more. I think that was a, um, Sheryl Sandberg thing. She'd write down on a piece of paper three things she was grateful for at the end of the day. Well, it's coming from good research. It's good, solid science around it as well. It sounds like it's natural for you, though. Yeah. Yes, it is natural.

And I'm super grateful for that. I'm grateful for my gratitude. I'm super grateful for that. I've learned. I'm grateful for my gratitude. I'm grateful for being grateful. Okay. Sorry. I cut you off. Yeah. No, I, I, I've, uh, I've learned that. And, you know, as I've gotten older, that that's not, you know, the norm for all people. And, um, uh, for, for my kids, we have this great thing we do at the end of the day. It's something we added to my new podcast was the high-low cheer. And this was shared to me through a friend. And it's a good reflection tool as well. We ask them when we sit at the

dinner table, if we are sitting around the dinner table, which obviously doesn't happen every night, but what's your high-low cheer of the day, high of your day, your low of your day, which is a great opportunity to, you know, talk about that, share it. And then your cheer for someone else, which I love, right? It's not just about you. You're recognizing someone doing something nice for you and you're giving them credit. Um, and it's a, it's a really good one. Well, I like it. you can steal it yeah i'm going to use marty mcnanny my friend she shared it good you said marty mcnanny marnie marnie nice one marnie hi low chair so um we do something similar high and low with my we do three highs

one low and then i said hey how do you how do you want to do it you know do you want to add to it he goes yes he goes i want to know what your favorite Pokemon is. Of course. So that's part of it now. So high, low, Pokemon. And then I said, well, if you're going to pick one, I'm going to pick one. He says, okay, dad, what is it? And I said, a time that you demonstrated courage today.

And he goes, ooh, okay. So we talk about courage every day. We talk about Pokemon every day, highs and lows. And then I said, yeah, I know. Isn't that a good one? And then he goes, uh, he goes, um, he goes, uh, okay, I get one more. I go, what is it? He goes, well, I've told, I've been told by my teacher that I do math every day. So I want to know how you do math every day. And so he wasn't really believing that math happens every day. And so I said so okay so it's easy like i write a tip you know for like the rest so mine's always the same you know but

it's like it's so we've got this little thing at night and it's really like i'm super appreciative that's cute how old is he 10 10 and a half almost 11 oh it's not the greatest age see mine are 10 and 12 it's like such a great age i tried to add to my high, low cheer because I was rereading Mindset by Carol Dweck, of course, which is one of the all time great books. And I was trying to impress on them the importance of failure, right? In your life. So I was like, okay, from here on, we're doing high, low cheer cheer, fail. What did you fail at today, kids? And they were like, why do you want me to fail, mom? Oh, my God.

You know, I mean, in fairness for the theory, I hear it all the time. Fail fast, fail forward, fail, fail, fail, fail. I don't want to fail. Okay. I want to make mistakes and learn quickly. So the failure thing, I reorganized failure. I'd love to run it by you. You did good. I rearranged it. I'd love to hear what you think. Yeah. So failure is, um, not the thing doesn't go according to plan, but failure is the inability or the

unwillingness to go for it. Oh, okay. So a lack of action. you know inability or unwillingness like i you didn't have the skill to go for it because you're going to die if you did or and that's in some environments and but for most of it's it's the unwillingness it's like i didn't i didn't have what it took to really settle in and to really be about it so So I held back, I played it safe and small and I rattled, I internally rattled. And even if I get the score, I'm like, even so you're our earlier point, um, in the conversation, like there's certain ways that you lose. I feel like, I don't know if you agree, but if, if you lose in a way where you held your dignity and you're ripped it and it was all about it and they just happened to be better that's way easier to swallow oh yeah right then like yeah oh my god like i held back or we

didn't solve this thing that we knew was an issue on you know this system those are those are the things that get me crazy but anyway so that's how so that then puts it back on me and it puts it back on the folks i work with like to redefine failure. Like it's not about not getting the outcome. It's about the inability or unwillingness to let it rip. So you're not so outcome focused, which is a healthy thing as well. Do you agree with the outcome focus thing? Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Yeah. I was interviewing Michaela Schifrin last week. She said something this, I mean, here, here's a woman who just turned 23. She said something that was so spot on to me because she is considered at 23

to already be one of the greatest skiers of all time. And if she continues in the trajectory, she was, she is, she will have broken every record in two years, right? That exists out there at 25 in a sport where to be consistently great with so many variables is unheard of. And she's consistently great. Um, but I said, well, how do you, how do you handle all those expectations? Right. And she said, I learned. That it's not the expectations I need to be consumed in. Right. I have to set my goals. I'm going to have my goals. But if I'm constantly trying to set my goals according to expectations, I'm always going to fail because those are someone else's expectations. And it was such a great answer where it's like, yes, what happens is people then don't have expectations because they don't want to fail. So they start dropping down what their goal is. She's like, no, you can't do that.

I'm going to still have my goal, but I'm not going to worry about the expectations around that goal because I'm not focused on outcome. I'm focused on the process. I was like, damn, sister. It's so clean. How did you learn that already? I know. You got to interview her, Michael. You'd be like, yeah. Oh, I watch what she's done. I'm like, wow, she is special. And you know, with downhill, it is literally razor's edge margins. And when they put it on edge, like things can go wrong quickly and you only get one shot at it

you've got to do all of this mental imagery i mean it's a it's a rad sport yeah she says for those who say there are there is no fear at the top of that mountain at your start gate they are lying you have to have fear because it's self-preservation good for her right it's survival it's like i'm like yeah Good for her. It's survival. I'm like, yeah, I get it. You have to have respect for that mountain. This generation of athletes are so much more connected to the psychological principles and applications. Why?

I don't know. Because I think the science has advanced enough that, I mean, there's still much more to go, but enough where people can put their arms around how to train the mind. Where when I was growing up, it was not part of the conversation. It was like, hey, focus. What do you mean? Focus on what?

Like I am. I'm here. So now we know how to train it. So there's a science. There's actual handles to the tools that we can use. And it's still rudimentary in many ways, because we don't know type of training for type of person. And so that's where the art is coming in, but there's so much more advanced now. I mean, it's almost feels like a throwaway comment

where people are saying, Oh yeah, I'm meditating now. Right. Right. Yeah. The mindfulness of it. Yeah. We never, when we first were introduced before Colleen, we had someone who else came to work with the team and he was introduced as a sports psychologist. And we were like, what is this? Why do we need this? That's right. Nowadays, right? It's like, if you don't have someone that you're working with on the mental skills side

of things, then what's wrong with you? I know. Well, people like you and Mia and people that have raised their hand to say, uh, yeah, the mental, like, what do you mean that you're not trying to get better mentally? Like, you know, whether you're already skilled at it, there's still room to grow. And even, but some people are like, they struggle with it. And that doesn't mean your mind is broken or struggling. It just means you haven't had the proper training and conditioning. Right. Yeah. Okay. so perception of

it is wrong yes oh that's for sure yeah okay so when was the last time that you witnessed mastery besides my interviewing process us. Oh, damn. Last time I witnessed mastery. Is it rare or is this a memory issue? I do have a lot of senior moments. You know, I, I work with a lot of talented people in television. And when you see people like, I'll give you an example, Mike Tirico. For example, Mike Tirico, who's a dear friend, can do every sport out there. And he can host a show. He can do play-by-play. He can do highlights. He can do features.

I mean, he can do anything in the business and do it. Well, you stop. And when you're working side by side, I've covered, uh, world cups with him. He now of course hosts the Olympics for NBC. We lost him at ESPN, uh, to NBC, uh, and, but, uh, covered, you know, soccer with him and European championships. And when you're watching that, you're like, it's effortless. And I know it's not, but it looks effortless and they do it at such a level that you, you just go, okay, I bow to you with that. Um, and maybe I'm cognizant of that right now because it's something that, you know, I'm in the thick of with, you know, trying new things or doing new things in television. And, uh, and when you see someone do it with, you know, so well with seemingly so little effort, you go, wow, you just like want to slow clap for them. I'll do it. You're doing it.

Yeah, you're doing it. Okay. What are you craving in your life? That the seed of suffering is the crave the, you know, like, what is it that you're craving? And you might say nothing, but I don't believe it. You know, most people do have. I think I go back to, um, my struggle of, am I doing enough to be significant right like that form of mastery that matters so much to me and is what I'm doing um meaningful am I helping people am I changing anything and so I think that's a constant internal struggle and something I crave in a healthy way. Um, but I, I think the,

the, the, the great, um, reminder in life and perspective when you start to crave is kids, honestly, um, our kids. I mean, I have two kids that are 10 and 12. And I think if I didn't have kids, that craving for what's next, what can I get? And I think I'm wired that way, right? Would be insatiable. And with kids, you have this healthy perspective of drop it back, be present, don't be consumed in other things and be present in them. And I realized too, like I only have so much time with them here before I lose them to the world in a good way. So they are really, it's really good for me to be like, no, I want to be here. I was supposed to do a shoot last Friday. I had to cancel this whole big shoot because I was like, no, I want to be here. I was supposed to do a shoot last Friday. I had to cancel this whole big shoot because I was like, I promised my kid I would be on the field trip. I am going to be

there. And I love that. I love being present with them. So that balance is something I crave as well. And I love that craving. Are you looking for balance? Yeah. That's a big word for you? Balance? Yeah. Balance between what? I heard Paul talking about that last week that he doesn't believe in the Jeff Bezos talking about the work-life balance because we're all wired to work. But I even noticed this when I was playing. I love soccer and I was incredibly competitive and would be out there juggling all the time and working on my own. I didn't take a parent to get me out there. You know, all these stories you hear about other athletes.

I did it on my own. That was self-driven. But I also realized when I got older in college and onward like I needed more balance if I was immersed in soccer 24 7 I was miserable like that did not make me happy and mentally I needed to be immersed in more intellectually curious things and so I allowed myself to do that to the point of people would say my husband did who was a coach he would say you could have spent more time watching film analyzing. I said, yeah, I could have. And I think I probably would have been a better player, but would I have been a happy player? And if I'm not happy, am I being

successful? And so it was this trade off that I have. And to this day, like, I need balance in my life. I love I'm a very communal person. I love time with my moms and my friends. And I want to be paddle boarding in the sunshine and out walking in the hills or whatever it is. And so I've recognized that if I'm grinding 24-7, I'm not happy. And that balance is not healthy. On that note, is there a phrase or word that cuts to the center of you know who you are i don't know is there a phrase that guides your life like do you have a phrase or a word or a philosophy that guides your life i phrase that guides my life um Because I'm wondering if it's like the early stuff from spirit, which is like do good from spiritual and religious stuff. Or is it something more about balance or being whatever, whatever?

I mean, there's a phrase that we use at our leadership academies that I thought of because it is a phrase that kind of guides my life. It's choose to matter, right? The one, the thought that it's your choice. You decide your path, your attitude, your approach to every day. You wake up with that choice, right? That's a huge one for me. And the second one is to matter, significance. So not success, not number of followers, right? Not millions of dollars in the bank. It's what are you doing that matters? So I think that would probably be, um, something that, but I mean, I hope one day when, you know, I go sliding into my tomb with my margarita in hand, right? It will say, she mattered. That's so good.

She mattered. She just didn't drink the wine. She made the wine. She crushed the grapes. Julie. Shit, I'm sorry. No, but you are a legend i want to say thank you like seriously thank you for the energy thank you for your time thank you for like uh the interview we did five years ago at the olympics like thank you for like so much and then if there

was one question that you're going to sit down and ask a legend, a true master of craft, what would that question be? Um, where does the fire come from? There's always a fire, right? There's this fury, Katie Ledecky, who I'm sitting down to interview for the podcast on Wednesday, tomorrow actually, her coaches describe it as this stove burning hot, this fury inside her, this intensity that they have no idea. They said she's swimming as if it's for rent and for her food in every practice. Like that fascinates me. What is that fire? Where does it come from? That's awesome. And then you, did you, were you able to articulate that? I know we talked about that earlier, but like you said, you came from a very humble, stable upbringing. Like where did the fire come from for you? Yeah.'t articulate it yeah um i i don't know honestly i think it's you know i i do feel like competitiveness can be fostered um but i also feel

that it is innate in a large sense as well like I just have always been like that. I do think I will say one thing. I think it helped in that it was me. Like I said, it wasn't my parents. It wasn't my parents saying you should do this. It was me saying, I want to do this. And, um, and they allowed a world where that was okay. It was never, Hey honey, that's unladylike or you shouldn't be thinking that way or you shouldn't be coming home covered in mud from playing tackle football. There was no, uh, there was no gender bias to competitiveness. It wasn't like, that's a male thing and women shouldn't have it. It was like, yeah, great. Just be home by dinner. I love it. Where can, we, if there's folks that

have young girls that want to get in your camp, where can they find that? Um, juliefowdyleadership.com. That's good. That's simple. Okay. And then what's the name of the podcast? It's called laughter permitted. Yes, it is for you, isn't it? Do you like that name? I love it. What do you think? Flat out fits for you. Yeah. Yeah, we have a lot of fun. I mean, we try and dive deep into who these people are. And it's another reason we started that is we just largely right now, of course, we will allow men. And someday, Michael, you will hopefully be my first token male.

Token male. Oh, my God. Grace, this podcast. How quickly it has turned. That's great. But right now we're focused on women and intentionally because I just don't feel like people know their stories well enough. Your dear friend, Kerry Walsh Jennings was kind enough to be one of my first guinea pigs and did a test pod with us, which convinced ESPN to do this. And it has been so much fun, but these women are just rad, amazing humans and people should know their stories. So that's what we're trying to do is just share who they are in a fun way. Okay. And then where can folks follow your laughter, your vibe, your intellect, your

brilliance, your genius, all that good stuff. Where can I follow you? Yes. Bless you. My mom. Where can they follow that? I don't know. Social. Like where, where is it? Oh, like Twitter. Yeah. Wherever. At Julie Foudy. Okay. Not really an Instagrammer. I'm, I'm not a big social media person. I'm trying to get better at that, but I feel like it's a lot of energy that I don't want to spend. Appreciate you, Julie. All right, Michael. More to come. And you are doing such great stuff. It was an honor to be one of the people on your now 200 plus episodes. I don't know how you do it. Maybe you get your seven and a half hours of sleep. We'll talk soon, Julie. Take care.

Bye Michael. Okay. Bye. All right. Thank you so much for diving into another episode of finding mastery with us. Our team loves creating this podcast and sharing these conversations with you. We really appreciate you being part of this community. And if you're enjoying the show, the easiest no-cost way to support is to hit the subscribe or follow button wherever you're listening. Also, if you haven't already, please consider dropping us a review on Apple or Spotify. We are incredibly grateful for the support and feedback. If you're looking for even more insights, we have a newsletter we send out every Wednesday. Punch over to findingmastery.com slash newsletter to sign up. The show wouldn't be possible without our sponsors

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