Finding Mastery with Dr. Michael Gervais - Living with Alignment | NFL Player, Tyler Lockett

Episode Date: October 23, 2019

This week’s conversation is with Tyler Lockett, a football player who currently plays Wide Receiver for the Seattle Seahawks.Tyler was drafted by the Seahawks in the third round of the 2015 NFL Draft, and played college football at Kansas State, where he broke multiple records.This is the first time I’ve had a current member of the Seahawks on the podcast and it was a special conversation.Both Tyler’s father, Kevin, and uncle, Tyler, were star football players at Kansas State and went on to play pro ball.Tyler shares how he dealt with the pressure of living up to their legacy and the anxiety and stress it initially caused him – even driving him to a panic attack at one point.Tyler has a strong faith based framework that allowed him to overcome these challenges and become the man he is today.Now, I realize many of you may not aspire to play professional sports and some of you may live a life separate of any faith based denomination, but this conversation is really about living with alignment.It’s about finding the right framework for you – the framework that allows you to be your best in any environment.For Tyler, his belief in God is a big part of that – and his poetry.He began performing at open mics and poetry slams in high school, and he has written poems to work through personal issues, inspire his teammates, and give young people an opportunity to reflect on their lives.Tyler just released his first book – an inspiring collection of original poetry addressing topics such as identity, sports, race, relationships, and how to live a purposeful life.I definitely recommend checking his book out!_________________Subscribe to our Youtube Channel for more powerful conversations at the intersection of high performance, leadership, and meaning: https://www.youtube.com/c/FindingMasteryGet exclusive discounts and support our amazing sponsors! Go to: https://findingmastery.com/sponsors/Subscribe to the Finding Mastery newsletter for weekly high performance insights: https://www.findingmastery.com/newsletter Download Dr. Mike's Morning Mindset Routine! https://www.findingmastery.com/morningmindsetFollow us on Instagram, LinkedIn, and X.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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stay present and engaged with my thinking and writing. If you wanna slow down, if you wanna work smarter, I highly encourage you to check them out. Visit remarkable.com to learn more and grab your paper pro today. When I'm about to perform, I step into a whole nother place. I'm not worried about anybody. I'm not worried about anxiety. I'm not worried about any of that because I take the guy's stuff so serious. So when I'm performing, I'm performing for him. So when I'm up there, I'm like, I'm like, listen, like, this is what I'm about. And this is what I have to like, to let y'all listen to and to show you

guys. And I'm not worried about what y'all think. I'm not worried about what y'all feel. I'm not worried about if they're going to like it because the truth is if I like it, I know everybody else is going to like it because there's nothing that I do that I don't like. All right, welcome back or welcome to the Finding Mastery Podcast. I'm Michael Gervais and by trade and training, I'm a sport and performance psychologist, as well as the co-founder of Compete to Create. And the whole idea behind these conversations is to learn, and to learn from people who have committed their life efforts towards mastery, both mastery of craft and mastery of self. And what we want to do is we want to understand the psychological framework that they're working from, which is a fancy way of thinking about how do they make sense of themselves and how do they make sense of events and the world around them. And then we also want to understand what are the mental skills that they use to build and refine their craft.

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and peanut butter. I know, Stuart, you're still listening here. So getting enough protein matters. And that can't be understated, not just for strength, but for energy and focus, recovery, for longevity. And I love that David is making that easier. So if you're trying to hit your daily protein goals with something seamless, I'd love for you to go check them out. Get a free variety pack, a $25 value and 10% off for life when you head to davidprotein.com slash finding mastery. That's David, D-A-V-I-D, protein, P-R-O-T-E-I-N.com slash Finding Mastery. Now, this week's conversation is with Tyler Lockett, an NFL, National Football League player, who currently plays wide receiver for the Seattle Seahawks. And Tyler was drafted by the Seahawks in the third round of the 2015 NFL draft.

And before that, he played college at Kansas State, where he broke multiple records. Now, this was the first time I've had a current member of the Seahawks on the podcast, and it was a special conversation. Tyler comes from a strong athletic family, elite athletes, his father and his uncle playing the same sport. And he walks us through how he dealt with family pressure of living up to their legacy. Tyler has a very clear spiritual framework that has allowed him to work through these challenges. And I realize that many of you might not ever aspire to play professional sports, and some of you might have a very different type of faith-based denomination that you're working

from. But this conversation, it's really about living with alignment. And that's something available and I think important for all of us. So this conversation is really about listening to how Tyler's working and then to figure out how you might answer those same questions. And more importantly, what is the framework that allows you to explore your very best across multiple environments and conditions? And for Tyler, it's his connection to Jesus. And that's a huge part of it. And also his love for poetry.

He began performing on open mics and poetry slams in high school. And if you know Tyler, this is just part of how he works. And he uses poetry to work through challenges. He has also, I've seen it, inspire his teammates through it and also give young people an opportunity to reflect on their own lives. And that's why one of the reasons I wanted to celebrate Tyler's work is because he just released a new book called Reflection. And it's an amazing collection of original poetry by him addressing topics like identity and sports

and race and relationships and how to live with purpose. And it's not just a poetry book. It's got poetry, inspired words, if you will, and then a workbook attached to it for each poem. It's really nicely done. I highly recommend checking the book out. And with that, let's jump right into this week's conversation with Tyler Lockett. Tyler, how are you? I'm doing good. How about yourself? This is fun. I haven't done this yet. I haven't sat down with somebody who's on the team. You're the first person on the team that I've sat down with to do this. So I'm not exactly sure how this is going to go, but I'm looking forward to it. Yeah, no, I'm looking forward to it too, man.

I appreciate you letting me be on the show. And I'm just interested in the type of topics that we talk about and just how it's going to get out there. So you are, so many folks don't follow football, you know, that are part of the community. A lot do. But you're a wide receiver on the Seattle Seahawks. And to make it really simple, you're the one that catches the balls most often, right? Okay. So you, did you grow up in football? Yeah, I grew up with a sports family. So football, basketball, baseball, ran track. Like I did it all. And your dad's a legend as well. Yeah. Dad and uncle. My dad was the best receiver at Kansas state. And my uncle was up there. I think top five

receivers at Kansas state as well as one of the best returners. So when I went up there, I think top five receivers at Kansas State, as well as one of the best returners. So when I went up there, you know, I kind of had a big legacy to kind of live up to. What was that like? So it was a legacy school, meaning that you had family there before. And there's spotlights and there's also shadows, right? When we think about legacy. And sometimes the spotlight is great, but sometimes it's hot, you know, and it's like a little too much for people. And sometimes there's a shadow, like you can't quite get out of the shadow from legacy. And so for you, what was that like at Kansas State? When I first got there,

it wasn't really as bad as I thought it was going to be. I knew that I had it good because my dad went there. My uncle went there. The same coach, Bill Snyder, was still there. Michael Smith, who kind of helped coach my dad and uncle at receiver, he was there. And so I knew that everything was kind of like set for me to be able to go to Kansas State. I think it was the first game that we had that I started to realize how big of a legacy that I was going to have to live up to because everybody kept saying, oh, he has the speed of his uncle. He has the hands of his dad. Like he's in the middle of both of them. And so everybody was really excited to kind of see what is it that he's going to bring to the table? What is it that he's going to do and become? And the first time that I actually went out there and stepped on the field

in the field of play, everybody just screamed. And you would have thought I scored a touchdown. And it was literally just me entering into the game. And at that moment, I think that's when I started kind of thinking like, what are they going to think of me if I don't live up to what I'm supposed to live up to? Because the first game I caught my first pass, everybody went crazy. Then I caught a punt return. I took off, had a really good return. And then I think I kind of fumbled and we lost it and so at that

moment I was just kind of like man like they might be like he's not gonna be anything we thought it was gonna be and then the second game I dropped the punt and then it was just kind of like my confidence kind of just went down because I was just like man I don't know if I could be able to do this because everybody's probably looking at it like, man, we really thought we was going to have an exciting four years, but now we don't know what we're going to get out of this person. And at this moment that you're describing is for most people, their greatest fears is not being good enough, not belonging, public ridicule. And, you know, especially it's even more challenging when your father and uncle you know who you're still close with are trying to help you out as well right and what are they thinking as well i

don't know but so you're describing something that's incredibly challenging for people and let alone all the normal pressures of trying to compete right okay so why do you if you go back to that first moment stepping on the the field, they're cheering. And then you had those thoughts about what if what if I can't live up to this? This is called the imposter syndrome, by the way. Right. And what did you do with that thought in that moment, if you can remember? I think at that thought, it was just kind of hard for me to truly focus on what it was that I was doing. Like I knew what I was doing, but it was almost like when you would make a play, it's kind of like you're checking to see how everybody else felt. And then when you didn't make a good play, you check and to kind of see how everybody else felt.

And instead of me staying in my right mind, I started focusing on like, what do they think of me? You know, what are they saying right now to one another? Are they cussing me out when they're out there in the stands? Like those were the things that were kind of playing into my head because it was like, oh, he might not live up to this legacy. And then what were you doing with those thoughts? Obviously, you know that those thoughts are going to get in your way, but they were getting in your way. So what, literally, what did you do with those thoughts? The thing that really helped me out was because, you know, I'm a big believer in my faith in god and so um i remember like i told my mom i was like man i'm transferring it's like i'm leaving i'm about to go back home i'm not gonna live up to this legacy like i just don't want to deal with

all this pressure and i remember i took a walk out of my dorm room and i just walked all the way to the football complex and i literally was just praying i was talking to god and i was just kind of like i don't understand why this stuff is going on. You know, like I wanted to red shirt and I decided to say, you know what, I'm going to leave it in your hands. Because at first I was going to do bad on purpose so I could red shirt. And then I was like, you know what, I'm going to just do what I can do and I'm going to put it in your hands. And when I did, they was like, shoot, you going to play. Like, we're not red shirt. You killing everybody out here in practice. And so I was like, no, I want a red

shirt. I want a red shirt. And then when the first two games didn't really go well, I was just like, see, that's why I wanted the red shirt. That's why I didn't want to deal with this legacy and blah, blah, blah. But when I prayed to God that day, it was a story that came up into my head. And it was when Jesus was with the disciples and he said, and the disciples said like, you know, Jesus, which one of these people's sin was it him? Or like, was it his parents? And Jesus was like, neither. This was done so that the will of God might be displayed over his life. And at that moment, everything made sense because at that moment, it showed me that I didn't have to worry about living

up to the legacy and everybody had all these thoughts about oh it's going to be because of his dad it's going to be because of his uncle but the thing that in that story it showed me was that God was going to say no those games wasn't decided by this or that it was decided so that child could see what the first two games was like because now what what I'm about to do, you're going to realize that this is something that only God could do. And after that, I had that mindset in the third game. I scored. That was my first touchdown. We played against the University of Miami. And then after that, I got put on kickoff return because the kickoff return was tired. We played against Texas Tech. And you know how that is. Texas Tech got that crazy offense. Then we played against them. They put me back there. I ran it back. And then all of a sudden it was like, okay, stay back there. Then the next game we played KU, I ran it back.

And then at that moment, that's when I knew I didn't have to question anything anymore because I knew that story kind of gave me the confidence and guidance that I needed to achieve what I needed to achieve. And therein lies your framework, right? That is your spiritual framework, psychological framework infused. And if I play it back, what I hear you saying is that basically I was trying in a secular way to live up to the shadow or the spotlight from my family, and I needed a different approach. And that different approach is, it sounds like what you did was you surrendered and said, okay, God, let me, let me hear what you got to say. And then what happened is you had,

I don't want to say it a revelation, but you had a new idea, which is, oh, okay, let me start doing this for God as opposed to for approval. Yeah. Cause I mean, when you really think at it, think about it and you look at it all like everything was set up in a way to where the expectations for me was like through the roof. Like we're talking about teachers that know my dad. We're talking about people that work at Kansas State that know my dad. So when I'm walking places and doing everything, I'm literally seen in the same image as my dad. And so you know how that's hard for people when they have to try to live up to what their parents did or what anybody in their family has done. And they feel like if they're not good enough, then they won't be accepted or they feel like, you know, there'll be a laughingstock to everybody else. It's kind of like imagine Michael Jordan and then you got to be his kids.

And now all of a sudden you got to be his kids. And now all of a sudden you got to live up to what your dad just did. And if you don't live up to any of that type of hype, then you feel like you were a failure. But in this case, like the Michael Jordan in my story was more so what my dad and uncle did because they were seen as the best to come through at Kansas State. And who would have ever thought that if I stayed true to who I was and I just decided to be myself and just do the work, not worry about the results. Like that was my biggest thing. Don't worry about the results. The results are going to be what the results are going to be, but the work should never change. Who taught you that? That's something that I really just learned. When you said just learned, when do you mean? So I relearned that about myself a couple weeks ago

because when I was at Kansas State it didn't matter what type of game that I had I just went back to work it didn't matter if people praised me I went back to work it didn't matter if they told me I wasn't good enough or I wasn't gonna be able to beat this defensive back that was about to guard me I just went back to work even when I beat him even when I proved that he couldn't guard me I just went back to work and that's the beat him, even when I proved that he couldn't guard me, I just went back to work. And that's the thing that I realized was the result was never bigger than the work. And when and now in my life, I started to see that I'm so focused on the results and how things start to look that I forget the very thing that got me there, which was the work. When you first came into the Seahawks I remember um conversations with the coaches like

look at him he's one of the top recruits here and he's doing he's at practice before everyone else he stays later on the jugs I don't know if you're on no you're drugs pre right yeah pre so like the idea that you were doing the extra work was something that you came in with yeah you know and so fits what you're talking about, right? Like you were, you were connected to the process and hard work, more than hard work for you. It's like smart work, smart, hard work. And then what got in the way? I think the thing that got in the way was just, it was people like, you know, when you first come here, I mean, you listen to the stuff that a lot of people say. And, you know, the NFL is different. People view it as a business.

And a lot of people don't understand how it works. You know, when I got drafted there, like I remember one of the first things a guy said was like, they don't need you. He told all the rookies that, you know, they don't need you. It's a privilege to be here and you got to prove that you belong on this team and stuff like that. You know, the thing about college, you're not going to get kicked off the team. You're not going to get cut. Everybody pretty much makes the team when you got a scholarship or if they allow you to be a walk on. But here it was just kind of like, OK, so I got to prove myself.

And so now I'm going out here and I'm playing. Not only am I trying to prove myself, but now I'm nervous because I don't know what it's like to be cut. And now I'm scared to be cut. And now like I started realizing, like I did have anxiety earlier on, but I just never knew what it was because I found ways to cope with it and control it. How were you doing that? Uh, I was doing it in an unhealthy way for the most part. But what I started to realize was like, that might've been things that I did that helped me at first. But like down the road, like now I'm there three years, four years, five years. I realize like you can't get caught up in a lot of that type of stuff.

But when you focus on the business aspect of anything, you start to realize that you can't control anything. You start to let everything tell a story. You look at the plays. Oh, they're not trying to give me the ball. Oh, they must be trying to give it to somebody else because they make more money. Oh, so now they just want me to be a decoy. They don't want me to be able to help out. So now I'm not going to get the stats. And now you look at everybody else and people are getting 200 yards, 150 yards. Now people are talking about you saying that you're not as good as they thought you were going to be because you can't live up to it, but they don't understand what's going on every single day at

the facility, or they don't understand the role that you're given on the team to be able to help make the team successful. And so now you're dealing with all of these other thoughts in your head and you didn't confuse yourself because you can't even believe your own thoughts because now you're trying to please everybody else as well as try to please this business to be able to show them that you belong when the key about being successful in this business is knowing that you belong and knowing that you don't have to prove it to anybody, but just to believe it within yourself. That thought, like it triggers a thought for me, what comes first, success or confidence? What comes first, success or confidence?

What comes first, belonging or knowing you belong or actually fitting in and belonging? And obviously the relationship and the narrative that you have with yourself is what sets that up. And if the narrative, if the storyline is about business and success, I love your point that you start interpreting whatever was taking place as a threat to your success and the narrative would support that. It sounds like that would kick up anxiety for you. Oh yeah, definitely. I think for me, like when I think about like anxiety, I started to realize it was a monster that I created within myself. And a lot of it is because I was so good at being in control and I knew I was a strong like minded type of person. And the worst thing that could happen to somebody that's strong minded is have a panic attack because literally you think everything thoroughly. You try to figure out

why you had it. If you do this, maybe you could prevent it from happening. And you start to figure out all these different types of things instead of just looking at it for what it was and understanding like this only happened because of this. And now when you start going places, you start overanalyzing, you start overthinking, you start checking. Like I'm checking my breath. I'm checking my thoughts. I'm checking my heart. Make sure I'm okay. Making sure that I'm okay. The worst part about panic attacks is the fear of a future panic attack. Oh yeah, definitely. Flat out. And so do you want to talk about panic attacks? Yeah, we can. Yeah. We can. Yeah. So you had one. Yeah. And then obviously

you're talking about it and, and then the checking of it is the worst part of it. So how did you work your way through that? Because you know, it's not many people have panic attacks, but many people have anxiety and some of the anxiety is crippling for people. And some of it is kind of garden variety stuff. It's just kind of a high level hum, if you will, that's just unsettling. But for some people, it's really disabling, you know. And so, you know, walk us through what you learned. I mean, I learned a whole lot, man.

Like the biggest thing is you learn that anxiety is good. Anxiety is not a bad thing. Uncontrolled anxiety is what becomes a bad thing. When we are about to perform on a big stage, when we're about to take a test, when we're about to do something we've never done before, we have this nervousness inside of us. And the truth is, that's anxiety. But that's a controlled type of anxiety. And sometimes we don't even realize that that was anxiety until we start to figure out like, what's going on with me now? Like I'm over hyperventilating, like things are happening too much. My mind is racing. If you're late to the game, low awareness, all of a sudden it's like, it feels like you open your eyes. Like what party am I in? Cause this is overwhelming. Yeah. Right. But if you have high

awareness, you catch it sooner. Yeah. And so you were, what you were describing as well is that you became overly aware. Yeah. Right. Hypervigilant to the fact that something might trigger a panic experience and it's a out of control feeling. No, I mean, man, it definitely is. And I think the biggest thing, and it was one of the things that you kind of taught me was a panic attack can't kill you. But the thing about it is you can't tell the difference between a panic attack and a heart attack. It's tricky. And so. Bang, bang, bang, bang.

If you never had it before, you know, you get sweaty, you know, your palms might start getting mushy. Your ears start ringing. You know, you start sweaty. You know, your palms might start getting mushy. Your ears start ringing. You know, you start getting a little dizzy. Your heart might start beating a little bit too fast. Yeah, cotton mouth. And now you're at the point where you're like, oh, my gosh, am I about to die? Because you don't know what death is like. And so then it's like after you have that, especially being a strong-minded person, like we said, now you're overanalyzing everything.

Now you're overly focusing. Now you're overly thinking. Now you're overly trying. And now when it comes to like focus on your breath because that's what brings you back to the now, you're overthinking your whole breathtaking because you can't even focus because your whole imagination is like just wandering everywhere. And the key is to be able to have a sound mind and to be able to bring it back to what's going on right now. And that's the biggest thing that, you know, that I've learned was because at the end of the day, you know, like you said, a panic attack is like an alarm clock. It's trying to wake you up and let you

know that you need to deal with this before something bad really happens. And you have to be able to understand like, what is it that's happens. And you have to be able to understand, like, what is it that's bothering you? You have to be able to understand your triggers. And when you're a strong minded person, like you have to learn that you can't just say, you know what, if I just go watch TV, then it'll go away. Because then if it goes away when you watch it, you're going to think that you always have to watch it in order for it to go away. Then you got to be able to teach yourself that you can talk to people about it, but don't get to the point where you need them to be right there. So like the thing that I learned is the key is being able to create space in everything that you do. You create space in your thoughts so you don't take it serious. I mean, Tyler, you know, I'm hearing you right now, knowing that you've done incredible work to be able to create, to even say what you've just said.

But the thought about creating space, for me, that is what mastery is about. And it's about creating space between the frames that are taking place that everyone else might be seeing, but you're playing in the space between. And the space between thoughts is really an old thought. It's a Zen thought. And not many people talk about that because they haven't done the investigation around it. And the easiest way I can describe it is, let's say you're playing a video game and it's a car game, right? And when you're sitting in the car, the cockpit of the car, and you're trying to navigate the course, it's like happening fast. You see the corners, the cars are coming up on you really quickly, and it's hard to see and have perspective. But if you could watch from a helicopter perspective, now you've got space, that that makes all the difference in being able to see like, Oh, I got corners coming up. I

got cars, I got traffic, I got this, that, and the other. Well, let me just kind of relax and navigate through this. Cause I see what's happening. Yeah. The space between. No, definitely. Like that's, that's truly like the biggest thing, because when you think about anything and everything in life, everything becomes overwhelming. If you focus your attention on one thing and you know, the thing about anxiety is like, I had to tell myself if this is the only thing I'm dealing with, I'm having a great life. You know, just like if football is something that I'm going through and it's not being good to me right now, like I have a great life because that means everything else is going right. This is the only stuff that's bothering me. And sometimes you have to take a

step back to be able to see it in a different type of lens, a different type of view. And so even when it comes to creating a space, like you start to learn that a lot of people fear anxiety is because they have that type of panic relationship with it. They haven't tried to alter their relationship to be able to come to grips with it to where it's like, look, you're not a bad thing. You're teaching me how to be able to be better and how to be able to take things to a deeper level and to accept it for what it is. But when you don't create space, what ends up happening is you're so strong minded to where now when you go to work, you're carrying anxiety. Now when you're in the car, you're carrying anxiety. Now when you're at the movies, you're carrying anxiety. Now when you play, you're carrying anxiety. And

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Totally cool. That's going to keep you alive. Definitely. But the excessiveness of it kicks up what's called the autonomic nervous system, right? We've got two channels, sympathetic and parasympathetic. So when you use this strong-minded imagination that somebody might have, and all of a sudden you're ruminating or thinking excessively about something that could go wrong, our system called the sympathetic nervous system kicks on. Because

it's hard to tell if the image is going to happen. This is the brain, right? Is that going to happen or is it just my imagination? So the brain will always, not always, it's too big of a word, but for the most part, errs on the side of readiness. It's good to be ready to the saber-toothed tiger. So those who have strong minds and strong images, the brain goes, oh, okay, well, shit, let's meet the demand. And so heart rate comes up, breathing starts to change, vasoconstriction, blood starts to move differently. The reason we get cotton mouth, obviously, is because we don't need to digest food if the saber tooth is chasing us. So that's why cotton mouth like that system works.

And how do you create space in those moments? That's a question to you. I think the way that I create space in a lot of those moments is one of the things I do is I write in a journal. So sometimes I write in a journal and when I write it, I kind of like, I'm honest with myself in every single way, in every aspect, every intention, every motive, like every reason behind what I think. And I put it on a piece of paper so I could be able to take away the power. Because I think the key is being able to know how you have to take away that power. So like for me, you can be able to pause those thoughts. So like if you have all these crazy thoughts in your head, you can say what those thoughts are.

So like if you have fearful thoughts, just say fear, panic, like trembling, like, you know, and now you're starting to take away all of that stuff because now the thing about your imagination is it takes you to a place, but you have control over your imagination. And so when I'm thinking about stuff like that, I'm trying to find like what ways best work for me. Sometimes you can think about like, what's the worst that can happen? And I'll tell myself every bad thing that I don't want to happen. And if I can control my breathing and my thinking through that whole thing, the worst things that I was afraid of happening didn't happen when I said that it could happen. You're actually using two really strategic research-based approaches. One is when you name an emotion or a state, it diffuses the

state. Okay. So trembling, it's not quite naming an emotion, but fear, you know, anxiousness, worry, naming the state, the physiological state will also kind of diffuse it a bit as well. And the second is it's an inoculation to the worst thing that could happen. So when you imagine the worst case scenario, which sounds, it sounds like it's not a recommended thought. But if you're heading down that path to say, wait, hold on, now what's the worst thing that can happen? And then you say, could I deal with that? That's the second part of it. Well, yeah, geez, if that's the worst thing, yeah, I can manage that. So then you come back to where you are and you're like, oh, okay.

Well, whatever happens, I can deal with it. You know, I think, Tyler, this thought that I want to see if you could chin check this a little bit. But I think one of the most powerful thoughts we can have as humans is that no matter what, I have the ability to adjust to it. No matter what happens, and it's a fundamental belief that you have, but you have to earn this belief. You have to go through difficult things to get that belief statement right, which is I can deal with difficult experiences. And I'd love to just in a short form answer, like, do you think that that is one of the more powerful thoughts? No, I think it is. I think that is a powerful thought.

And I also think that anxiety has to do with your mind wandering. That's right. And so you don't have to argue with your own thoughts. I think sometimes we get so caught up in arguing with our own head that we forget that we're in control. A thought only has power when we give it power. And there's so many thoughts that go into our head, but there's only one thought that makes it to where it allows us to choose whether we react or respond. And so I think the more that you become powerful in knowledge of knowing that you control your mind, that you have a sound mind, then it allows you

to be able to be more peaceful and not to worry about those things that's going to happen. Otherwise, you're going to be ready every single day, every second of your life. You're going to be like, I'm ready for what's going to happen. And there's nothing that's happening because you're the only one in the house and you're watching TV. Yeah. That's like, it's not quite the right ready. Yeah. Okay. So, all right. Um, why Jesus for you? Uh, where, where did, where did that come from? And so I, it, he is your mentor. He is the mentor for you, right? Like there's, you say God and Jesus, but I know that they're different for you. And so is Jesus the one? Yeah. Jesus is, you know, my Lord and savior. Uh, you know, I'm a Christian, so I believe everything that the Bible says. And, you know, like when I was growing up,

I went to a Catholic church, you know, so I was an altar boy. I understand all those different types of things. And then, you know, I ended up, what do you mean different types of things? Uh, just like some of the different stuff, just being an altar boy, you know, like as a Catholic, like, you know, you pray to Mary, you know, like as a Catholic, like, you know, you pray to Mary, you know, different stuff like that. And, you know, then I would go to a non-denominational church as I got older and I started learning all these things about God and stuff. And I really wanted to be able to change. I really wanted to be able to be like everything he created me to be. And a lot of that was because I put myself in a box. Because when you feel like you did some things in your past that you had no idea about because you were so messed up, then all of a sudden you start wanting to say, well, now I can do this.

And if I could focus on this, I know I could be forgiven and I could be happy. Something lighter, brighter, more aspirational as opposed to something destructive or whatever. Yeah. Like this was when I was younger, like in high school, you know, when you think about those things that you're like, whoa, like the Bible says, like, if you do this stuff, you'll be put to death in the old Testament. But now when Jesus died for us, like we're able to live, you know, because he made him who knew no sin to be sin so that we might become the righteousness of God. So when I was younger and I was learning about God and stuff, especially in the youth group, like at first I started taking it so serious to where I put myself in a box and I didn't allow myself to fully

like enjoy life or be myself because everybody has this type of like thought process when it comes to living for God. Like, oh, you can't go to the club or you can't do this or you can't listen to the secular music. You know what I mean? And so it starts to make you think, well, what can I do? Well, if I can't, if I'm supposed to read how much, if I'm supposed to pray how much? Like there were questions that I had that other people didn't have, which was like, you know, when people say I can hear chains falling in the spirit, my question would be like, can you really hear them? Because if you can, I want to hear them. Yeah, I love this question. So I grew up Catholic, right? Spoon, spoon fed, if you can, I want to hear them. Yeah. I love this question. So I grew up

Catholic, right? Spoon, spoon fed, if you will. We had priests and Monsignors and, you know, lots of folks in the home, you know, like our, our family was, was dedicated and my mom worked at the church. You know, my dad was heavily involved. And I remember, um, try like having lots of questions and I had the same type of question. Like I could never hear God. I didn't know what that meant. And so, and I still, I don't think I have. And I listened a lot.

I used to talk a lot. That's what prayer was for me talking and asking. And then, so then I flipped probably about 20 years ago to listening way more. Damn it. I'm still not hearing it. And so at least maybe I'm being too analytical about it. But anyways, my wife and I go to a, um, a three day mindfulness retreat. I think it was last year, 16 hours of noble silence meditation meditation, the whole time listening, listening, listening. And she, you know, at the end of the retreat, she leans over, she says, I heard him. I go, what? She goes, I heard it. You know, she said him or it's or whatever, but she says,

I heard God. I go, what? Like, I'm excited for it at the same time. Yeah. You're like, why not you? Yeah. And so I won't, I won't like go into what she heard, but it was, it was game changing for her. So have you had that? Have you had that? Or do you have it on a regular basis? Man, I had a game changing moment in my life because I always wanted to make sure I believed

the right thing. I wanted to make sure that, you know, everybody has all these other types of beliefs and I didn't want to be the one to believe in a wrong thing at the end of my life. And so one of the things that I really had an interesting moment with was it was a guy. I remember in college he was like a Muslim. So he would talk about a lot of this stuff. And, you know, they go back and forth with what Christians believe in and a Muslim will say, well, this is what it's supposed to be. And I remember, um, this girl in Seattle had told me to watch this thing. It was a man who went from Christianity to Muslim, I think. And so I listened to it. And I remember I went to sleep that night because I was just like, you know, God, I want to make

sure I believe, you know, the right thing. Like, I don't want to be, you know, driven the wrong way. And then I find out at the end. And literally when I went to sleep, I had sleep paralysis. And it was something that was just. Meaning that you couldn't wake. I couldn't move. You couldn't move, but you were awake. I was awake, but I couldn't move.

And I'm looking literally at my closet and it's something that's just standing there that's dark. And I'm just like, what in the world? And so I grabbed my phone. I'm seeing this right now as I'm talking. I grabbed my phone and I hurry up and I turn it over to where the brightness is on. So I turn the flashlight on, try to wake myself up and I dropped the phone. And so the thing is just laughing and laughing. And so like the only thing that I could do was I was just like, Jesus, like, please help me. And as soon as I said that, like I woke up. So this was all a dream. This was, I don't even remember waking up. My eyes were already open and it was just like everything I saw wasn't there anymore.

Okay. So hold on. Help me understand. Was this a dream or was this, were you actually in sleep paralysis? I was in sleep paralysis. Okay. So you were awake conscious. Yes. But you can't move, but you just described that you picked up your phone. Yeah. Like I picked, I was able to pick up my phone and I was shaking. Yeah. Okay. I was shaking while I was trying to pick my phone up. Yeah, okay. And while I was doing that, it was laughing at me. And I literally had it twice that day. Because the next time I had it, I was up and then I heard my alarm clock go. I mean, I heard my alarm system go off.

And so then it would go off, go off, and then literally it was nothing anymore. So how did this change you? It made me stop looking for stuff because because the only way for me the only way i woke up or got out of that situation was when i called on jesus and so for me it made me realize that you don't have to go looking anymore and And when I stopped looking, I started to actually realize that everything that it teaches us, it's literally like people get so confused about it. And he's the most misunderstood person in this world. But it's like, when you literally read the Bible, it's literally like a history book. It's just a book that's telling you about everything that's happened in the past. And these are people who have stories who are telling you the stories

that happened back in the day. And these are people who chose to believe in the very thing that was in front of them. And, and they're just telling the people that's outside, like, this is what we believe. This is what we've come to know. And this is how we are to prove it to you guys, because this is what he did. People are saying he did magic tricks, but he's doing things that nobody's ever done before. And so when I'm reading that, I'm I'm reading to understand like this is what happened back then. And so it's allowing me to see if this is what gave them peace, if this is what gave them happiness, if this is what gave them love. And the things that they're talking about still applies to today's world that we live in, it gives me a choice to say, do I want to believe or do I not want to believe? So you are learned in football and you are learned in scripture. Those are your

two foundations of where you spend most of your time, right? And you had that intersection of the mind, like floating back and forth between the two. You had an experience that shifted you, like, oh, what is this panic thing? You had another experience, which is like, oh my God, I can't move. Oh, let me just ask for Jesus and things work for me. So when you think about mental health, and you've got a strong spiritual framework and you've got an incredible physical framework, when you think about mental health, do you think about it as mental strength, mental weakness? Do you think about it as a continuum? Like, how do you

think about mental health? Because, and then I got to follow on, which is like a lot of people don't recognize the pressures that elite athletes work with and, you know, they are significant. Yeah. That's a very tough question that I would say, because like, for me, the way that I view mental health is way different. The one thing that I can say is the battle is in the mind. And, you know, that's what the Bible says. And that's literally where the, the war is won. You win and lose in the mind. There is nothing that could ever happen in your life that hasn't already happened in your mind. Like the Bible says, the eye is the lamp of the body. And so what you see, if it's light, your whole body is light. If you see darkness, your whole body is, is full of

darkness. And so when, when I start understanding and looking at scriptures, it starts to allow me to realize that my whole life was centered around me being in control. But when it comes to believing in God and believing that Jesus died for you, like you can't be in control. You know, it says cast all your cares upon him for he cares for you. And another one that says cast all your anxieties upon him for he cares for you. And it says take my yoke for it is easy and it's light. And you start seeing all these other things that talk about like pull down strongholds, cast down imaginations. You know that everything that exalts itself against the knowledge of God. And you start to realize that the mind is very powerful and the mind can play with you a whole lot.

But he says stuff like, listen, you have the mind of Christ. Say that you have a sound mind. Like you don't have the spirit of fear, but you have a spirit of love, power, and a sound mind. And so it's like, when you start reading scriptures and you start understanding scriptures, I think for me, it allows me to start realizing like he's already given us the answers to the test. It's just, we get so caught up in everything that happens in this world and that applies with football like I didn't care about money when I first got here I didn't care about any of that I just wanted to prove to the world God was real show it by my lifestyle and literally be a light

and then you start getting around other people who care about all these other things that don't really matter and then you start listening to music and you start listening to people's songs and they start talking about how they had it all. And it's still something that's missing. You start hearing people say that they're searching for something to fill a void. You start like listening to all these people and it's like success still isn't enough. When you finally get that job that you want, you want a better one. When you finally get a certain amount of money that you want, you think that you're going to be happy. But all that does is expand your mind to the next level of what money that you need to be able to spend. And so it's like, for me, I started to realize that there has to be more to

life than this. Because like even in football, like we played against the Saints, I had 150 something receiving yards. And I remember JB on our team, he was like, dang, bro, like you was killing it. And I said, you know what? I went home and I said, that still wasn't enough. And at that moment, I realized the Bible says we can't please God in our flesh. And at that moment, I even told myself if I can't even please my own self in my flesh, I know I can't please God in the flesh. And so I stopped trying to live according to what I wanted, like for my own greed, for my own self. And I started to realize that I have to live in a spirit. And in the Bible talks about like the fruits of the spirit is like love and peace and all these different types of things.

And once you start realizing that those are the key things that you hold on to, you stop worrying about what this life is going to throw at you. You stop worrying about what's going to happen. You stop worrying about the anxieties of this world and all this other type of stuff, because you realize that the treasure that you have in your heart is in heaven and nothing can destroy that. Nothing can break, thieves can't break in and steal that. But any treasure that you have on this earth, anybody can take away. Anybody can steal it at any given moment. So it's strong for you. This framework is strong. And I think many people struggle with framework, right? Either they haven't invested in a spiritual framework or they haven't really taken a look at their psychological framework and invested deeply in it so that it is strong and flexible at the same time. What do you say to folks that have been turned off by Christianity, by never introduced to it possibly, or, you know, that are following other frameworks that you don't understand because you haven't studied so deeply?

Yeah. I mean, the biggest thing that I'll say is like, you have to follow your truth. And the thing about it is your truth today doesn't mean that it's going to be your truth a week from now or a month from now or a year from now. And so all you can do is really live out your truth. But like, regardless of what anybody else says, like for me, regardless of what anybody else said, a pastor could have went up there and told a story like about everything that was in the Bible. I had to go find it. I had to make sure to go look at it and know myself. And I couldn't just always depend on what somebody else said because I needed to

make sure that I truly knew. And I think when you, when you have that feeling of, let me search and really see if, if what I'm searching after is real. I truly believe that you'll end up knowing and you'll end up finding out what's in there for you. But the thing that I learned is like, we get so caught up in our relationship with God because we think that it's a one-sided thing. Oh, you died for me, so I'm supposed to live for you. And now you're supposed to fill every one of my wishlists. And now when things aren't going right in my life, I'm supposed to live for you. And now you're supposed to fill every one of my wishlist. And now when things aren't going right in my life, I'm going to sit here and I'm going to question you. Why aren't things going right? I thought I was supposed to do this. I thought I was supposed

to do that. But it's because I put my own agenda in my relationship with God. I didn't know if he really wanted me to do all these other type of things, but I planned it for myself. And now when it didn't happen the way I thought, I sat here and was like, God, what's going on. But when you start to realize and what you start to learn is like, when you give your life to God, like your life is full. You're like, he tells you that you're blessed because he says like, blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness. Blessed are the peacemakers. Blessed are the meek. You know what I'm saying? Like he starts to tell you like, this is how you know that you're blessed. And then all of a sudden you stop looking at it like what this world shows you that what looking

like being blessed is like, because when you, when you start to really focus on what it's like to be blessed in God, you start to realize that it doesn't matter what I go through. There's nothing, there's nothing that this world can give me that I don't already have that's better than eternal life. Finding Mastery is brought to you by Cozy Earth. Over the years, I've learned that recovery doesn't just happen when we sleep. It starts with how we transition and wind down. And that's why I've built intentional routines into the way that I close my day. And Cozy Earth has become a new part of that. Their bedding, it's incredibly soft, like next level soft. And what surprised me the most is how much it actually helps regulate temperature. I tend to run warm at night and these sheets have helped me sleep cooler and more consistently,

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The thing that I would suggest to them at first is you have to, you have to come to a place where in your heart inwardly like you really want to know. Like you have to come to a place where you're like, look, everything that I'm doing isn't working. Obviously, no matter what it is, I'm still wanting more. And so when you when you come to a place where you're like, I want to know if this is for real or not. It's like you test it. You, you, you sit here and you, you ask the questions that you've asked. And if you have people in your life that understand and know they could be able to help walk with you. But if not, you have to be able to take the first step. You know, the Bible talks about like, when you seek me, you'll find

me when you seek me with your whole heart. The same way that we go after things wholeheartedly, you have to be able to go after God, because this is the thing. The Bible says God is knocking on the door, but it's us who have to be able to answer that call. You know, the other thing is like, when you understand like our relationship with God and you understand everything that it is that we're doing, like one of the favorite things that I do like in the Bible, it talks about when Cain was given his offering and God didn't accept it, but he accepted Abel's. And, you know, he said, you know, if you don't do good, you know, isn't sin crouching right there at your door. And what it, and what it allowed me to show

was it said it's desires for you, but you must rule over it. So no matter what it is in my life that's going on, sin is literally right there at the door waiting for me to give us my attention. And it can't tempt me. It can't do anything in my life until I decide to give it attention. And the things that we see as like, as things that we see, that's amazing. And that gives us a spark. We start to realize that the same spark that we thought life would give us, gives us that little dryness as well. And so it's like, for me, like the thing that gives me up in the morning, the thing that gives me meaning to where I don't have to worry about this stuff anymore as being an impact is being able to inspire and be in a. Because the Bible says to let your light shine. So at the end of the day,

the life that I'm supposed to live is not supposed to be for everybody else. I'm not supposed to worry about the things that they're saying, comparing me to all these other types of things, because I have to be able to let my light shine. And if I don't know how to let my light shine, then I have to be able to go to the one to show me how I let my light shine. And if I don't know how to let my light shine, then I have to be able to go to the one to show me how I let my light shine. Is God active or passive for you? A passive God is, sets it in motion. Hey, I hope you, I hope you figure it out. I'm going to give you a roadmap now. I'm going to give you some guideposts on what I think are thoughts that are good and behaviors that are righteous, so to speak. And then an active guide is like, hey, I want Tyler and Mike to meet. And I want Tyler to go to the Seahawks.

And I want Tyler to drop a ball in the end zone at this game. Or I want Tyler to catch a ball in the end zone at this game. Is God passive or active? The answer that I'm going to give is I think he's both. The reason why I say that is because when you look back at the beginning of time, how everything was created, and what Adam and Eve did, and all these different types of things, and then you get to the New Testament after you finished the Old Testament, like with just stories or whatever you heard, you start to realize that this whole time he had a plan. And in the Old Testament, they were literally prophesying about Jesus coming and Jesus doing all of these types of things. And then literally he got here. And then the thing about it is even when you read it, he said, I'm not here to abolish what you've

learned back then in the law. I'm here to fulfill it. And then it's like, the more you start to be able to listen and understand, it was like he had a plan the whole time. And that was one of the things that I've literally learned was like, even in my situation right now, like one of the things that I've learned was like, you know, it came out that I was saving myself till i was married and then somebody from back home said man he already did it and i'm like no i did it we're talking about sex yeah i'm like no i didn't i'm waiting until i get married and they literally tried to say whatever they could to make people think that i really did have sex and i was like god like why is it that people literally try to talk about you when you become

in a spotlight or you trying to be able to shed light on something? And in that moment, it was just like, I got done worse than you. And I was like, wow. And it was like, I died for y'all. And people still don't know me. They still questioning me. Using Jesus' voice. Yeah. And it started to make me realize like, man, like, you know, but it made sense because you said, Jesus said, who do people say that I am? And people was like, they say you're Elijah. Some say that you're the prophet. He said, well, who do you say that I am? And he said, you're a son of God.

And he said, only God could have showed you this. And so like with me, the thing that I realized about God is that God is an all knowing God. So there's every path that we can take in our decision. He already knows the end to that path. So I truly believe that in life, we are going to get to the place that we're supposed to get to, but it's on you how long it takes. If you take God's way, you're going to get there in time. If you take your way, you're just going to make some lefts. You're going to go to a stop sign. You might go eat at a place, but at the end of the day, something is going to happen that's going to alter you to get back on that road. So for me, I truly believe that I was created with a purpose. And that's why I feel like I went through that

mental stuff. I didn't know what I was going through, why I went through it. Then you hear Kevin Love talking about it after I didn't went through it. You talk about DeMar DeRozan with depression and I'm starting to think about it. And I'm like, God, like, why am I going through this? And he showed me that this is the next step. This is the next level that I'm about to take you on because you can speak about this stuff in a way that people are going to ask, is this what you went to school for? Like you're going to speak in a level through your poetry and through all these different types of things to where people are going to read your book and they're going to say, how did he put all this stuff in poetry? How did he make it to where people are able to be drawn to it and all these different types of things? And so I truly believe

that God is a miracle worker. And I truly believe that he's working in each and every one of our lives. It's just a matter of how are we seeing it? So let's talk about your book and poetry, because you work in the way that your mind works is really different. Appreciate that. I hope that's good. Yeah, right. Like you, you're like in the hallways at the facility. Sometimes you'll come up and you'll have like this beautiful poetry that you're just, it's spilling out of you.

And you've practiced it and it makes sense to you and there's depth to what you're working to convey. So how do you organize your thoughts for poetry before we get to in the actual book and some of the poetry? Man, the crazy thing about it is like, I feel like that I can't really write any type of poems unless God gives it to me. There's been times that I've wanted to write poems about certain things, certain topics, and literally nothing comes to me. So how do you prepare yourself for paper to pen? I never wrote in paper and pen like that. Anytime that I did, I always lost it. I've always just memorized everything everything that's what i was getting at it's like you do journal though you do write stuff down but yeah but this is different this is like if to me it's i think i have this right you hear something you

feel it and then you stitch another line to it and then you rehearse those over and over over until it's just part of your d almost. Yeah. And the crazy thing is once I have a sentence in my head, I'll work on trying to figure out what's the next sentence. And based off of what the first sentence was, I'll be able to remember the next line that comes with that. The only hardest part with that is if I say certain things that I've already said in other poems, but in a different type of way, it might make me think of another poem that I said. But as long as I continue to focus on what it is that I'm trying to get across in my poetry, it's pretty cool. And there's different types of things. I have different type of aspects when it comes to poetry, like inspiration, motivation. A friend that talks

about committing suicide, talks about about anxiety the monster I created like it's different things this is all in the book yeah that's all in the book but a lot of that just came from like the stuff that I went through the stuff that you think about the stuff that you hear but a lot of the stuff that I've wrote and the way that I do my poetry is I learned that the whole meaning of reflection in general even that's what the book is called, is because I'm labeling everything that I clouded up my judgment, everything about life that people taught us that we thought was supposed to be like this, all these other things that's not giving me fulfillment, the money, the fame, the power, the lifestyle, the women, whatever the case is, like starting

from the bottom and working your way to the top. Like I realized that I put all of that into the book because at the end of the day, all of these things were clouding my reflection. Have you ever heard of the Zen saying 10,000 moons? So the idea is that there's 10,000 moons. When you look down at a puddle or a pond or a lake or even an ocean, if you have enough perspective or height, you can see the moon as a reflection, but it's a reflection of the one true source. And so not to be confused with the reflection, but to remember that there's one true source. And that, I mean, that's a Zen thought. Does that sound like a Christian thought in some ways as well? Man, I think you're going to have to go a little more in depth. Yeah. Okay. So the idea is that, I love your saying, the idea is

that there's lots of things that are reflections of what is true, beautiful, and good. But the essence of what is true, beautiful, and good is the essence and never be confused by the two. The reflections are different than the source. And when I I saw your title I was wondering if you were getting at that as a reflection but it sounds like maybe that's not what you're doing with the title reflection what does the title mean I think the title truly means that it doesn't matter how other people see me and it doesn't matter how I think that they see me it's a matter of how do I see myself and I started chasing after all these other things that never even mattered. There wasn't even a reason why I did what I did from the beginning.

And all of these things caused me not to even see myself the way that I saw myself before. How do you see yourself? I see myself as a masterpiece that's still in the making. I see myself as somebody that was created to be able to inspire and to shed a light. Like I don't like sometimes like, you know, you sit here and you think you know what's next. Like I knew my whole life that I was going to be in a position to be able to talk to people of high caliber that people consider celebrities and stuff like that. I knew that I was going to be in that place when I was in high school to be able to help people because those are the people who really feel like they don't have anybody.

And a lot of people don't know how it feels to be in that position. And literally, like, this is the year that I've realized a lot of my triggers I had to be able to overcome and accomplish so I could be able to get into that place that I felt like I was called at. And all those triggers that I had, that anxiety stopped me, like not wanting to live by myself, like had to go back to the football stadium that I didn't play in because of my anxiety. Like I had to go and do all of those things again. And what I realized was that I'm on top of the world and it's not because of me. I'm on top of the world because God showed me these are the things that you used to do. And this is how you used to cope. And these are the things that stops you from being who you're supposed to be. And now you're starting to realize who you really are. And it's scary for a man to realize or a woman to realize the type of power that they have inside of them.

And that power is not based off of us. That power is based off of like God. And that's what allows me to realize that my life isn't in like football's hands. My life isn't in anybody's hands. Like football can't do anything to me unless God signs off on it. Like my family, my friends, like death, none of that can do anything to me unless God signs off on it. Because the Bible says it's God who gives us life and death. It's God who gave, gives you wealth. You know, it's like one of the scriptures, he said, I put Pharaoh in this moment for a very reason. And so what it allows me to realize is that all we can do is prepare us for that moment. We'll never be ready. You have to learn how to be ready in the moment.

You have to learn how to prepare and grow with something that's new. But I'm learning that you can't prepare for something big until you stay true and faithful to something that's small. Because something that ends up being big always starts from something that was faithful to being small. Because what you consider something little on a football field, oh, he just made a catch. That's all it was. But somebody else seen it as a big-time catch. Like, oh, you have a chance to have catch of the year.

To me, that doesn't surprise me. It surprises me a little bit more because it's a shocker that my book comes out, and before my book comes out, I have that catch. We're talking about game five against the Rams. And you are it's a scramble play. Scramble play. Russ is rolling out of the pocket like he does. And Russ is the quarterback for folks that don't follow.

And you you're you're you're at the end of your route. Yeah. You take a jab step right. I guess your left, right? And then you start making a beeline towards the sideline, but you're in the end zone. This is one of the more incredible timed moments. Like you were both on time. And this is, for the record, and I can't wait to hear your story, but I don't think there's such a thing as big games, big plays, big moments. Every moment is equally important. How well can you attune and stay stitched or link moments together is the mark of somebody who is masterful, mastery of self first.

And so when I saw that play take place, first, from my angle on the sidelines, I thought there's no chance. I thought he threw it out of bounds. I still don't know how this happened. I've seen it many times on film, but I can't wait to hear your experience in it because the timing and the accuracy was like no other. No, yeah. I mean, the biggest thing was we ran the route. They covered it. And when it comes to scramble drill, if the DB's defensive back is turned towards Russ,

Russ is going to give you a chance. Meaning that your defender, his back was towards Russ. Yeah. So he couldn't see what the magician back there was doing. No. So then when Russ threw it, he put it in a place where only I could catch it. And so I'm not the biggest person on the field. I'll tell you.

Like 5'10". Maybe. Yeah. Like, no, for sure. So, you know, the ball's up in the air, and I'm not trying to have a jump ball and jump with the defensive back. So I tried to shield him off as much as I could to where only I could get it. And as soon as I caught it, one of our teammates, Luke Wilson, said,

dude, you got your feet in. And that's when I started going crazy and everybody started going crazy. But in my head, it was like, all I did was try to focus on those little things, make the play, make the catch, get your feet in, because these are the things we try to do every time it's a sideline catch. And everybody made it big. Everybody made it like big time. And they started talking about it a lot and everything. And when I just sat in the back and just watched, I realized that I don't have to worry about my life. I was so caught up in like, are the coaches going to keep liking me? Are they going to say I fell off? Like,

are people going to say he shouldn't have got the type of money that he got? And, you know, I'm, and I'm, and I learned that this was the year that I had to stretch myself, not just on the field because I was in a new position, had to do a whole bunch of things that I'm not used to. But I had to stretch myself off the field as well with my anxiety, learning how to be able to overcome my triggers and how to deal with them and cope with them in a healthy way. And as I started doing that, I started seeing that, wow, my book is about to come out. It's no shocker that God knew that. It's no shocker that he had a plan that all this stuff was going to come together and help. Like my book has gotten out there and it's like already on bestsellers in football, number one.

And congratulations. Thank you. So there's a couple of poems that really resonate with me and it's a very clever approach is that your inspired words and your unique way that you write, which you don't really write, you just work through it mentally and they're long. This is not like four lines. I mean, your, your poetry is long as, as an aside, do you remember the dancer Fiction? Remember we brought him into the training center? Yeah, yeah, yeah. The dancer. So he was one of the first podcasts that I did, and he described something similar to the way you write. You're not trained as a writer, correct?

No. Okay. He's not trained as a dancer. You guys both have an incredible skill. So when he hears bass, he moves his chest and his legs. When he hears horns and strings, he moves his arms and fingers. That's how he dances. That's interesting.

And so not trained. Nobody's going to come up with that as a method. And your route is not trained as well. So there's something about the genius of innovation in a true, authentic discovery that you've been on, as opposed to formal structured learning, write this sentence at this cadence and these words match these types of words. But you have innovated something from a true discovery standpoint. Okay, so how about this? I think it was against Green Bay.

And this was maybe four years ago. Your rookie year. Was it five years ago? Yeah, I think it was my rookie year. Okay, do you know where I'm going with this? Yeah, I went up there and I performed. And well, it was a team meeting. Yeah.

Right? We had some tension in the team. And you did something that there's two parts of the story that I want to share. And I'm not going to get any details because that's left for the team in the locker room type of stuff. This wasn't a locker room. It was a team meeting. And you went to the front. Are you okay if I talk about this? Yeah. Went to the front and you said, Hey, I know it's kind of weird as a rookie and all getting up here. Do you remember saying that? And then do you remember keep the name out of it, but there was a vet in the back of the room i remember a heavy vet

right and that vet says hella weird and everybody started laughing and you but you but but what did you do then we've never talked about this like what did you do at that moment not only are you up there in a weird way that a rookie that rookies don't do that typically, and then you hear the heavy guy in the back say, yeah, you ain't supposed to be up there, basically is what he's saying. When I went up there, the thing about it was after the first meeting, I went in my room and I knew that I had to go up there and do the poem. It's a feeling that you get.

And the type of feeling comes to where if you don't do it, you know you're going to feel bad. It's not one of those things where it's like, oh, I don't have to do this, I can wait. The way that the flow of that morning, that afternoon, and that evening went, everything happened the way that I said is designed for me to go up here and to be able to do this. And when I'm about to perform, I step into a whole nother place. I'm not worried about anybody. I'm not worried about anxiety. I'm not worried about

any of that because I take the guy's stuff so serious. So when I'm performing, I'm performing for him. So when I'm up there, I'm like, I'm like, listen, like, this is what I'm about. And this is what I have to like to let y'all listen to and to show you guys. And I'm not worried about what y'all think. I'm not worried about what y'all feel. I'm not worried about if they're going to like it, because the truth is, if I like it, I know everybody else is going to like it because there's nothing that I do that I don't like. I think this is part of what powerful humans do is that they are so true, whether it's masterful or not, but they're so true to their craft or the thing that they want to convey that they can translate that across any environment, any condition. And that's being principle based, but having the skills and the conviction to be about it in any environment. And so I watched it and you're a rookie. We, I don't think we even really knew each other. Like maybe, Hey, what's up? I'm Mike, I'm Tyler, you know, type of thing. And then I saw that. I said, what is this? Who is this?

And so we, do you, do you know that poem? poem yeah can you get to it yeah i'm sure i can uh so i said this is off the top of your head right yeah so i said look at you all young men and women just sitting there listening hoping that i say the right words to grab your attention and spark something on the inside of you that's always been there from the beginning dreams hidden potential who knows my question to you is what are you waiting for? Because last time I checked, you don't need to fill out a resume in order to chase the impossible. So tell me what's stopping you. Has it ever occurred that maybe it's not so much you waiting on God, but it's God waiting on you? I mean, he says in his heart, a man plans his course and the Lord orders his steps. But

how is it that you've been waiting on God this whole entire time when you never told him what it is that you want to do in life? I mean, that don't sound right to me. I mean, I know it's a lot of people out there that got a dream, but all they want to do is talk about it. They don't want to be about it. And I'm tired of hearing people talk about it because nobody wants to take action in order to make it happen. So how bad do you really want it? If your dream was right there in front of you, would you take the steps to reach it? Or would you just envision yourselves daydreaming like you're in it? When every tool that you need is right there in front of you, but you don't use it because you think everything's supposed to be given to you. And you sit there and act like

nothing in your life happens and why failure is on your mind, but it only comes because you don't practice because you don't put in the work. So how bad do you really want it? If you had to sacrifice almost everything you had to go on a fast and get closer to God, would you do it? You say yes, but when your mind tells you to go on a fast, you begin to second guess yourself and act clueless. Like you don't know what you're talking about. Think about it. If opportunity not, would you answer before you say, who is it? Or would you look through the window in a peekhole, open the door, opportunity's gone and you missed it. Which one are you? Because all I'm seeing is people start stuff, but they don't ever finish it. Talk about being successful, but they don't even live it. So how bad do you really want it? Do you believe in

yourself? Are you still looking for help? And why is it that when you fail, you blame others for your mistakes when the only person who can stop you from who you want to be in life is yourself? How bad do you really want it? If you were the only one who believed that you could live out your dream, would you still chase it? Or are you like those ones who hangs out with those people who shoot down your dreams and you just sit there and take it and give up and say you're not going to make it? How bad do you really want it? If the person right next to you had your success in his hands and could get you to where you wanted to be in life, would you ask him? Or would you just stand there, close your mouth, wave at him and just let him walk past you? You say that you would

ask him, but God has your success right in his hands and he's telling you that you're a winner when you keep saying that you're a loser, failing, trying to do it by yourself, not relying on God. When he says, I got plans to give you a hope in the future. How bad do you really want it? If God told you to walk by faith for a couple of weeks, would you trust him? Or would you lean into your own understanding and trust your own judgment? How bad do you really want it? Because if you ask me, it seems like you don't want it that bad at all. And it's crazy because if a doctor said you only had a couple of weeks to live, you'd be out there in the world trying to do it all. Every dream that ever came to your mind. So how bad do you really want it?

Because if you really wanted it that bad, you wouldn't let nothing stop you. And you should know that with men it's impossible, but with God, all things are possible. So how bad do you really want it? Because the enemy is going to try to stop us from being who we're supposed to be. But all we got to do is put in the work because God's already given us the victory. It only comes down to one thing and that's how bad do you want it? So ask yourselves, how bad do I want it? You know, when I first heard that, I don't know if you, I'm sure you didn't recognize that. I like stood up, jumped up, like was going crazy in the back of the room. Like, what is this? I hear it again now.

I want to say thank you. And it's like, I can't wait for people to get your book. No, I mean, I'm looking forward to it because there's so many things that's in there. And I think when people think about a poetry book, you literally think about the cat in the hat. You think about like all these different types of stuff. And I don't think they'll realize everything that's in the book until they read it. And it's literally like the way that I do my poetry is I do it as if I'm having a conversation. That whole poem sounded like I was just sitting here talking to you. It's not like I'm attacking anybody or coming at anybody for any wrong reasons or any wrong way.

It's me just sitting here and I'm saying, how bad do you really want it? A lot of it is like I'm talking to myself as well. I'm not only talking to you, but I'm talking to myself because the whole poem is about me looking in the mirror, the whole entire poems. I'm looking in the mirror and I'm able to see myself more clearer the more that I'm honest about a whole bunch of stuff that's going on. There's some stories that, you know, just came to my mind and I wrote. There's other stories that I might relate to or other people in my life relate to and I wrote about it. But the whole key is in every situation, you have to be able to find yourself. And when you find yourself, you can see your reflection for what it truly is, not what you thought you saw or not what you thought you knew. You see it for what it truly is. And that reflection

doesn't change based off of the good or the bad that you do. That reflection is something that you have to be able to see within yourself and know that, and know that it'll never change, regardless if somebody cheats on you, regardless if somebody leaves you, your reflection is beautiful. But if you don't ever see it as beautiful, then it's hard for somebody else to ever see that. And so it's a self-help book. I have note the selves where I'm telling myself, like in a poem, I talked about one of my friends who thought about committing suicide. After I finished that poem, I said, note the self. I said, life isn't about glitzes and glamours. I said, you have to find a reason to live. You have to find meaning in everything that you do. Otherwise you're going to put yourself into an anxiety, stressful, depression type of mindset to where everything that you see is going

to be dark. But if you find meaning, if you find life in the things that you do, it gives you a reason to live a purposeful life. But if not, you're going to be lost. World needs you, Tyler. Oh my gosh. I appreciate you. So finish a couple of these very mechanical questions here. My mission is? My mission is to tell the world about God. I am? I'm free. I chose celibacy because?

My faith. And I wanted to truly do it the right way. It all comes down to? It all comes down to me. It all comes down to? Do you change it? No, because I think my purpose doesn't change. The life may change, but everything is really on me. God is always going to do his part. The question is, am I going to do my part? Just because I don't see the result that I thought I should see in God doesn't mean that the result isn't all depends on me. How far are you going to go? How long are you going to get caught up in your thoughts? How long are you going to question the unthinkable? How far can you take this God thing? How far can you take this poetry thing and not worry about you in the midst of it? When I go into that field mode, I'm thinking of how can I be able to let my light shine for God. So I take myself out of the equation.

When I take myself out of the equation, I feel more free. How do you practice? Is it daily prayer? Is it daily reading? Is it both? Is it something else? I think it depends on everything that you do. I think a lot of it does depend on the music you listen to.

I'm not here to say that certain music is bad because I listen to a lot of it does depend on the music you listen to. I'm not here to say that certain music is bad because I listen to a lot of music and I listen to all types of music. But when you listen to a lot of the things that people say, it starts to replay in your head and you don't realize how you start to feel those things that you listen to, especially if you have those same emotions. But like when you think of sad music, you start to feel sad. It starts to remind you of a time that made you feel what you felt,, when you think of sad music, you start to feel sad. It starts to remind you of a time that made you feel what you felt, especially when you're emotionally drawn to it. What are you listening to right now?

Man, one of the things that I listened to when we was on the plane was I listened to William McDowell. And William McDowell is like a worshiper. And so it was worship music. But there's times I listen to other people. Like I love listening to Lecrae. I love listening to J Cole, Meek Mill. Uh, Wiley just came out with a new album. Boosie Young Jeezy came out with an album. So I listened to what a lot of people, you know, are talking about.

I like Nipsey's album. But the thing that I realized too is like, where is my mind going when I'm listening to a lot of the stuff I'm listening to? And if I'm starting to see things in my life that's taken away from what it is that my structure is at, then I have to be able to get back to that. So like at one point in football, I lost my motivation, not because I didn't have it to go play. I just said, where was that spark? Where was that inspiration I had to go out there and play for God? And I realized a lot of that came with the music I listened to. When I listened to Lecrae, he started talking about little stuff like,

uh-oh, I woke up, slept on me, trying to eat with vultures. Y'all look for that. Let me feed the culture. Can't get food off of letting coke, huh? So it's like he started bringing something, you know what I mean, to where it was like, I think they think they know me. I think they think they get it. Some holy water crucifix and mix it with some lyrics, but this ain't that. And that ain't rap. I'm going in like the front door. If I ain't back,

then he said, they feeling you, Cray. It's cool. I accept it, but I won't be a slave to acceptance. And so it's like, the more I started listening to it, like one of my favorite songs I used to listen to in college before the game, it said, but should I fall? I'm still free from it all. And then he would say like round of applause. I pause to take a photo op. None of it's real. It's just Photoshop crop out my flaws and my failures, my aches and all my ailments. And now I'm picture perfect. Take all the dirt and conceal it. Really? I'm no better than any. They just pay me a pretty penny to sit and look pretty. Not too big, not too skinny. Just be whatever these fans demand of me.

Because otherwise they probably wouldn't love me. But the show goes on even after the curtains close. I smile and pose, put my signature on their clothes. They lift me up so hot and I'm surely about to fall. The higher that I go, the more unforgiving they are. And it's like the more you start to see, you start to be like you live for their acceptance. You'll die from their rejection. But even if I fall, I fell in the right direction. And so it brings that, like the cameras fall, the curtains close, credits roll down the streets, the critics laugh, they hate us all as they apply. But should I fall, I'm still free from it all.

And it allows me to be able to get to that mindset like they're not going to be able to stop me because it doesn't matter what they say. I'm doing this for God. It doesn't matter if they talk to me about competition and you should be competing with this person. No, because I'm being a light. The world is about competing. That's where we always lose at. Why can't we be happy for one another? Why can't we support one another? Why do we have to pull people down? Why do we have to sit here and talk about one another? Why do we have to feel like only one person can win? And it's like when you start realizing, when you take yourself out of the equation, life is so much more peaceful. Life is so much more happy. Like when I'm living for God, I'm able to enjoy the fruits of my life without worrying about how can I get more. I learned how to be content. I learned how to be happy. And one of my favorite songs before I stopped talking is J. Cole. He said, love yours. And like, just in a lot of the stuff that he said, he was like, don't be sleeping on your level

because there's beauty in the struggle. And he was like, there's beauty in the struggle Ugliness in the success Hear my words and listen to my signal of distress I grew up in the city And though sometimes we had less Compared to some of my dudes around the block Man, we were blessed And life can't be no fairytale

No once upon a time But he was like But I'd be like, dang If I still don't be trying So tell me mama, please Why you be drinking all the time? There's all the pain she brought. He brought you still in your mind.

And he starts to tell people like on the road to riches. Listen, this is what you find. The good news is, man, you came a long way. The bad news is you went the wrong way. Then being broke was better. And he ends the whole song. We're talking about there's always going to be a house that's better than the one you got. Always going to be some clothes that's fresher than the ones you rock. Always going to be a girl that's better out there on the tours, but you're never

going to be happy till you love yours. And so that's the thing that I've learned in my life is nobody can be happy for what's going on in my life. Like me, like if you're more happy about what's going on in my life than me, then that're more happy about what's going on in my life than me, then that's a problem. I have to be happy in how I look. I have to be happy in how I act, how I respond, how I see things. Because if I, guess what, if I catch four catches for 51 yards, I should be happy. I should be rejoicing. I should be happy about what's going on in my life. But when I start comparing and I see other things happening to other people, I start feeling like that's not enough.

And if it looks like their life is going great because they're happy, I need to make sure that I need to do whatever I can to feel that same thing. But you realize that true happiness only comes with learning how to be content and happy over what you get, being able to enjoy what you have. But happiness also comes with being able to solve problems and not letting problems lead you to that anxiety or that mental state of mind. Tyler, I don't think that I've enjoyed, I've done hundreds of these. This is up in the top of ones I've enjoyed only because like, I don't know. I just, I don't even know what the questions are, but you are dropping times and the wisdom that's flowing is beautiful. So I want, I got one last

question for you. And I want to say, thank you for your time. Thank you for the relationship that we have and, um, uh, what you represent in the world. So last question here is, it's a two-parter, but the first part is, how do you think about, define, or articulate mastery? I think mastery is being able to understand why you do the things that you do. Like for me, like ever since we grow up in life, we come to a place where we learn how to run away from problems and we learn how to cope with things.

And we don't understand how it affects us down the road. And so sometimes you don't know why you're doing some of the things that you're doing. And you only start to realize it once you break the cycle. Once you start to see the cycle that's going on, you start to say, oh, so this is what I do when I'm playing a video game. Oh, this is what I do when I get mad at somebody. This is what causes me to act like this and what causes me to display these types of characteristics and traits or because of the past stuff that you've gone through. And once you start to truly understand yourself, I think that's when you truly understand mastery. Like you can't be great at chess until you understand every single aspect of the game of how you can attack it.

It's one thing to be defensive. It's another thing to be aggressive. But I think mastery is learning how when I wake up and I have anxiety all day, learning how to still be my best in that state of mind, learning how when I'm sad to still be able to perform at a high level, learning that when I'm happy and enjoying life, how to be able to perform at that level, learning when I'm depressed, how to be able to perform at that level, learning when I'm angry, how to perform at that level. And in the heat of the moment when everything is going right and I'm going with the flow, learning how to be great at being able to go with the flow. I think that's mastery. It's not about like every day is not going to be your day,

but based off of how you feel, you should know how to be able to perform the same. And that's what mastery is forget the second part it's so good all right where can people find you uh they can find me on twitter and instagram td lockett 12 um td l-o-c-k-e-t-t-1-2 and if you can't find me there then you can find me on the football field with the seattle seahawks serving doing whatever i gotta do to try to help the team win. And it's all about the team. Appreciate you, Tyler. Go get his book, Reflection.

Find it. So it's going to be on Amazon and also it's going to be in Barnes and Nobles and Fred Myers as well. Brilliant. Best success to you, Tyler. Thank you. All right. Thank you so much for diving into another episode of Finding Mastery with us. Our team loves creating this podcast and sharing these conversations with you.

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