Finding Mastery with Dr. Michael Gervais - Living with Compassion and Combatting Anxiety | NFL Player Duane Brown

Episode Date: July 15, 2020

This week’s conversation is with Duane Brown, the starting left tackle for the Seattle Seahawks.He played college football at Virginia Tech, and was drafted by the Houston Texans in the first round of the 2008 NFL Draft.If you’re not familiar with the role of the left tackle, it’s one of the most important positions on the field, responsible for protecting the “blind side” of the quarterback.These are big men.Duane is about 6’3”, 315 lbs.This conversation is about what life is like for Duane when he’s not on the field.It’s easy to judge a book by its cover and in Duane’s case, he’s gone through life being judged by both his size and his skin color.The conversations I enjoy most on this podcast are when the guest is willing to turn off their “marketing mind” and let us in… to really understand what’s at the center of their world.Duane does just that… he opens up about his experiences as a child and why there were times when he felt his “light was dimmed” because it was easier to be accepted that way.This is a powerful conversation._________________Subscribe to our Youtube Channel for more powerful conversations at the intersection of high performance, leadership, and meaning: https://www.youtube.com/c/FindingMasteryGet exclusive discounts and support our amazing sponsors! Go to: https://findingmastery.com/sponsors/Subscribe to the Finding Mastery newsletter for weekly high performance insights: https://www.findingmastery.com/newsletter Download Dr. Mike's Morning Mindset Routine! https://www.findingmastery.com/morningmindsetFollow us on Instagram, LinkedIn, and X.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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stay present and engaged with my thinking and writing. If you wanna slow down, if you wanna work smarter, I highly encourage you to check them out. Visit remarkable.com to learn more and grab your paper pro today. For me, what I've had to learn is to be present. That's something that I struggled with before. I have a very just racing mind at times.

And you start thinking about five to 10 different possibilities and different outcomes of certain situations that I haven't, haven't even happened yet. You know what I mean? Or conversations you're having, you start having a conversation and then looking, you know,

two topics down into the conversation that haven't started yet and thinking, okay, they're going to say this and how do I respond to that? And once you do that, you start thinking about situations and hypotheticals that don't started yet and thinking, okay, they're going to say this and how do I respond to that? And once you do that, you start thinking about situations and hypotheticals that don't happen and think about a bad outcome of it and it can give you anxiety. And it's stuff that's like fairy dust. It doesn't exist, you know what I mean? And I used to the Finding Mastery podcast. I'm Michael Gervais and by trade and training, I'm a sport and performance psychologist as well as the co-founder

of Compete to Create. And I'm incredibly excited right now because we just launched our first Audible original. So it's about six and a half hours. It's an audio book basically. And its subtitle is An Approach to Living and Leading Authentically. And so it's built on this premise that everything you need, it's already inside you. And so what we do is we take an in-depth look at how world-class athletes and artists and entrepreneurs and top business leaders, how do they organize their inner lives to explore the edges of their potential and at the same time help others do the same. And so this book really is about celebrating the applied science and the insights and practices that are at the center of human flourishing.

And like I said, I couldn't be more excited. It's an incredible companion to our eight-week online course. And the eight-week online course can be found at competetocrate.net. And I have some of my best work. It's like, really, it's the approach to being able to invest in yourself, to have all the mental skills that are grounded in good science, but also have been tested on the frontier of elite sport and elite business. And this companion book, this like it's an incredible addendum to it, which is science and stories meets very applied takeaways. And so you can get the Audible original at audible.com forward slash compete to create

again, audible.com forward slash compete to create. It, audible.com forward slash compete to create. It would mean a lot to me if you checked it out. And it would also mean a lot if you wrote a review if you liked it, if you're so inclined. And so let's jump into this podcast here. The whole idea behind these conversations is to sit with people who are extraordinary, who have invested in their inner life and have refined their craft into the space of nuance. And what we want to do is we want to understand how do they do it? How do they organize their inner life? And when they bump up against challenges, how do they pivot and adjust? And there's science that sits underneath

these conversations, but these conversations are really about understanding what they're searching for and then being able to figure out what are the takeaways where I can apply some of those same principles and practices in my own life. Finding Mastery is brought to you by LinkedIn Sales Solutions. In any high-performing environment that I've been part of, from elite teams to executive boardrooms, one thing holds true. Meaningful relationships are at the center of sustained success. And building those relationships, it takes more than effort.

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listening here. So getting enough protein matters. And that can't be understated, not just for strength, but for energy and focus, recovery, for longevity. And I love that David is making that easier. So if you're trying to hit your daily protein goals with something seamless, I'd love for you to go check them out. Get a free variety pack, a $25 value and 10% off for life when you head to davidprotein.com slash finding mastery. That's David, D-A-V-I-D, protein, P-R-O-T-E-I-N.com slash finding mastery. Now, this week's conversation is with Dwayne Brown. Dwayne is the starting left tackle for the Seattle Seahawks. He was drafted in the first round by the Houston Texans back in 2008. And then prior to that in college, he played at Virginia Tech.

And so if you're not familiar with the role of the left tackle, it is one of the most important positions on the field. And I say that, and I've got a voice behind me that, you know, football only really works when everybody on the field is skilled to be able to contribute to the greater shared vision. That being said, his position is unique because he is responsible for protecting the quarterback, more importantly, protecting the blind side of the quarterback. So for the quarterback who touches the ball every play, to be able to trust that as they're looking across the field to do what they need to do,

that they need to be able to trust that the left tackle, which is Dwayne's position, is going to be able to take care of business and really stop the rushing from tackling the quarterback or disrupting the quarterback from their backside. And so these men are large and they're incredible humans. The offensive line are incredible humans for lots of reasons. And Dwayne is about 6'5", 315 pounds. And I've been told by numerous coaches that he is the, if you could have a prototype for a left tackle, it would look like him. It would sound like him. It would think like him that he is that extraordinary. And so this conversation is about what life is like for Dwayne when he's not on the field. Now, let me talk about the brain for just a minute. Our brain's dictum is to figure out how to survive. So that means that we scan the world

to find danger and to be able to sort it out properly. And so those shortcuts are where the phrase is, you know, don't judge a book by its cover, that type of thing, because there's more that meets the surface from anything. And just because you see something as being a threat doesn't mean that it actually is. There's biases involved. So in Dwayne's case, he's gone through life being judged for both his size and his skin color. And this conversation is really about his experience off the field. We don't talk much about ball here. And what I enjoy most on this podcast and inside these conversations, especially with Dwayne, is when the guest, in this case Dwayne, is able to turn off their marketing mind in the way that everything's supposed to sound and be and like whatever, and just get to the truth of it.

And that's why I wanted to have Dwayne on because he has that ability. And I think you'll feel it and sense it in this conversation. And I can't call for a larger bell to ring than that of authenticity. But to do that, we need self-examination. We need to look inside the places that we have biases and trigger points and tripwires and understand how to do better with those.

And I think that's the calling for us to contribute well in this world. And to do that, we really need to understand who we are so we can better understand who others are as well. And Dwayne does just that. He is incredibly open about his young life experiences and what it was like when he was a kid and why there were times when, in his words, his light was dimmed

because it was easier to be accepted that way. Think about that. That rings so true for so many of us that we're just going to kind of play it safe we're going to we're going to be small so that we can fit in properly and be accepted in environments where the people that we're trying to fit in with are really actually quite critical and judgmental and in some cases that is so subtle that it becomes hostile. So with that, let us jump right into this week's conversation with a legend, Dwayne Brown. Dwayne, how are you? Mike, I'm good, man. How about yourself?

Yeah, it's good to see you. Likewise. It's been a while. Okay. So we're in electric times right now, like watershed phase in humanity. And so I want to capture a couple of things. I want to try to capture your genius as an athlete. I want to capture your genius as somebody who stands and is principle-based and has just an incredible perspective on life. So I want to capture both of those. And so to do that, where did you grow up?

Let's just start early days. Where'd you grow up? I grew up in Richmond, Virginia. You know, a lot of people don't know Virginia is on the fence between the north and the south slash east coast, kind of a little bit of everything. Grew up there, a mom and dad, one older brother, humble beginnings. You know, it's a different environment. You know, I grew up somewhere where it was a lot of different cultures but um

you know for people that don't know Virginia is kind of a um it was one of like the first states in the U.S. and somewhere that is really deeply rooted in the south and the traditions of the south um if you know if you can imagine you know what that. So, you know, had a good upbringing, you know, played all sports, played football, basketball, baseball, did track and field, you know, and was a good student, started out a good student at least. And, you know, from there, you know, grew up and kind of gravitated towards football more as I got older. It became my passion.

I don't know if you know this, but I grew up in Virginia as well. I did not know that. Wow. Yeah, a small town in Warrington, Virginia. I was there. We're on this little remote farm. It was awesome. We moved to California when I was, I think it was fourth grade. Wow.ifornia when i was i think it was like fourth fourth grade and so yeah i got some roots down there in in virginia yeah so we got a little commonality there um what was it like growing up for you um it was it was nice you know i had a

good upbringing you know what i mean um like i said you know mom and dad's there uh you know as far as just the community and the environment, you know, kind of the state that we're in today, you know, I think back to kind of how I was raised and the area I was raised in and the kind of things that I was taught by my parents, like being out in the world. Again, Richmond, Virginia in itself is kind of a – it's a southern state, you know what I mean?

And the kind of tension between, like, the racial divide there, it's pretty strong. You know, it's kind of subtle, but it's strong, you know. So I was raised to just kind of carry myself a certain way, you know what I mean, out in the world. But I had fun, man. I had, you know, great friendships, some great way, you know what I mean? Out in the world. Um, but I had fun, man. I had, uh, you know, great friendships, um, some great experiences, you know, and, um, you know, it was,

it was awesome. What, when you say subtle, that's the part that is tricky, right? Like the obvious race divide or racism is, um, in some ways it's like, okay, I know where you stand, right? And like, I know how to deal with you. But it's the slippery. It's the slippery part that's really tricky. And so can you walk me through what that means to you? Can you walk through maybe an early experience where you felt it where it was like, I'm not quite sure what this means and how to take it? Yeah. So, you know, middle school, I started middle school, middle school, I was, you know, pretty advanced student, you know, and so all the classes I was in were advanced. You're still an advanced student. You're one of the best in the league. Like you're, and you're, and that's amazing. So in middle school, you had that going for you? Were you a hard worker and or naturally smart? Because the way you think, you work with information quickly. Your intelligence

is evident. And you also work ridiculously hard. And as some coaches said to me, your physicality is a prototype to be a left tackle. So know, so you've got some natural things here, but let's put a pin in sport for as long as we possibly can here. But you were smart and worked hard. You had both of those at a young age. Okay. Yes, I was gifted, you know what I mean, naturally. And I just had a drive to be great, you know what I mean,

at a young age and wanted to, you know, just be as best as I could. You know, also just wanted to, you know, make my parents proud, you know. And so that was kind of my driving force in my, you know, academics, you know, early on. And I was placed in, you know, some advanced classes, you know, and in those classes, it was predominantly white. You know what I mean? My teachers, my classmates. And so that alone just kind of, and also being a bigger kid and being black in those classes, it kind of puts you in a weird space, you know what I mean, where you just don't see a lot of people

in your class that look like you. And then just kind of the way the teachers were and just kind of the way some teachers were and just kind of the way the class some of my classmates were you know and you don't know if it was it was just kind of wasn't like a wasn't like tension but it was just kind of like you're not like us you know what i mean and some some cases you don't really belong in here it's kind of what it felt like and so that was kind of my first experience with that how did that work for you would you come home and talk about it would you try to make sense of it yourself would you talk to

your teachers would you like get angry about it would you give you sad about it what did it make you nervous I'm trying to get the spectrum of how you manage that as a young kid you know it kind'm trying to get the spectrum of how you managed that as a young kid. You know, it kind of, like I said, the combination of having a different color skin and being bigger than the rest of the kids, it just kind of makes you – I wasn't angry about it. I didn't really talk about it much, but it just made me maneuver a little differently. Like it kind of dimmed your light a little bit, you what i mean as far as wanting to not be as seen as much or heard as much because you don't know how it'll be accepted you know what i mean you don't know how the energy would be returned so you just kind of i did my work you know i had fun you know with with the the kids that i grew to new but general, I just wasn't as confident. You know what I mean?

As far as expressing my personality or things like that. So you're naturally, maybe you're not, I don't know. I know you as an introvert. I know you as somebody that like thinks and watches and observes and thinks and watches and observes. And when you say something, it's like, yep, there it is. Like that's why you've been, you know, processing because it's so accurate. So do you consider yourself an introvert as well? I consider myself an extroverted introvert.

Extroverted introvert, okay. Meaning that, you know, I'm not a natural extrovert. I don't just, you know, spark a party in a room. You know what I mean? I'm very observant. You know, if it's a group of people I don't know very well, then I'm just kind of very reserved. But with people that I'm close to, people that I've kind of grew friendships with,

very extroverted. You know what I mean? And so it's just kind of grew friendships with um very extroverted you know what i mean and so it's just kind of selective i believe um but naturally i'm just more of a more reserved so as a young kid how did you go from the light like not wanting to stand out too much because you already did and to be how did you migrate through that to become one of the all-star standout amazing talents in one of the most competitive games you know uh in the united states like how did you navigate that just work man you know what you know i think the the thing for me it always boiled down to just the work. I had, you know, a lot of sports figures that I looked up to.

And that was the bottom line was their work ethic. And in my mind, I knew if I worked and I was satisfied with the work I put in, then I think I would get the results I wanted. And, you know, it was nothing else besides that, that propelled me, you know what I mean? I didn't have like a big personality. You know, I wasn't flashy, you know, I just worked hard. And, you know, I wasn't always a big standout, you know what I mean? In high school, we had a lot of teammates that were, that garnered just as much attention as I did or even a little bit more from colleges. I always had to work. You know what I mean?

And once I got to college, it was the same way. I was a tight end, an oversized tight end. Ended up moving to tackle. And once I got there, I had to learn the position, learn everything that went into it, and it just continued to work out for me. You know what I mean? So I think personality wise, you know, the more people saw and respected my work ethic, people saw my dedication to my craft.

I think that just made it a lot easier. You know what I mean? People viewed me as being a star or people viewed me as being a leader. And, you know, I just kind of grew into that role the older I've gotten. Why do you work so hard? A number of reasons, man. I think, you know, for me personally and for my crafts, for what I do, I just want to be regarded as one of the best. I want to be respected by my peers. I been a dream of mine and um you know i'm 13 years into the into this professionally and i don't i don't ever take it for granted you know what i mean i know i know how easily it can be taken from me um and i'm always working to try to you know better myself to try to uh you know ward off a younger player that may be trying to take my position to try to just be the best person I can be for my team, you know,

to put us in a position to win. Outside of that, one of my, you know, my biggest driving force possibly growing up was just to get my family in a good situation financially. You know, like I said, we started in humble beginnings, you know, and so the experience I had from day to day, you know, like I said, we started in humble beginnings, you know, and so the experience I had from day to day, you know, watching the stress of not knowing if bills would get paid, the meals weren't quite up to par, you know, things like that, you know, our parents did a great job and did the best that they could for us. But, you know, it was a lot of stress at times

regarding finances. And I didn't want that for regarding finances and i didn't want that for me and i didn't want that for my kids and i knew with this vehicle of sports that i could set my family up for generational wealth and um and and you know just break a number of curses you know and so that that was that's uh always another driving force you You've certainly done that for yourself and your family. And I'm betting more kids than you know. But if you could help the next generation in a meaningful way, based on your life experiences and what you've come to know and how you've orientated your life, what would you pass forward or what do you want to pass on? I think as far as a profession or anything, you know, just try to find your passion, try to find something that, you know, you hold

dear, something that you really want to excel at. And not even just career, you know, whatever you want your life to look like, whether it's being a certain type of father, being a certain type of husband, being a certain type of son, being a certain type of friend. Make a decision, you know, of kind of what you want it to be like and work on that. You know, and I think I would strongly urge anyone, you know, to meditate. I think meditation is something that's, you know, not – I think it's starting to pick up a lot more in the in society but it's it doesn't get as much uh as much praise

as it should you know for its benefits um meditate on what you want you know what i mean what you want your life to look like what you want to excel at put those intentions out into the universe you know i've you know urged my kids to do it. You know, it's something that I think is great for all age groups and not something you have to wait for to be an adult. Save your money. That's something I think that's huge for the next generation, financial literacy, you know, especially like in the black community.

I think our parents and the generation before them, they were so much in survival mode, living from check to check, you know, and not really having the resources that we have as a generation today, as far as, you know, everything from like self-help to things like that. So our parents' generation was more in survival mode and didn't really have the tools to pass down a lot to us as far as financial literacy goes.

And we never learned how to budget. We never learned anything, you know, how to file taxes correctly. And I think being able to learn that will help you out tremendously and give you something to pass down as well. How do you think about money? Like what is your relationship with money? Money is freedom, freedom.

I think it's not everything, you know what I mean? It's not everything, but it definitely gives you it, it raises a certain set of problems in, in this country. I think it's important. It's important to have. You don't have to have millions, but being able to live within your means, live comfortably.

And you're talking about food and shelter and access to healthcare and the basics. The basics. You know what I mean? Being able to have that can erase a number of issues and can erase a lot of stress, you know, but you know, it's not everything at the same time. I think there are other values that need to be held and, you know, hired and just, you know, getting your means. Finding Mastery is brought to you by Momentous. When it comes to high performance,

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to be? Yeah. So, you know, my mother was, you know, she was the dominant force, you know my mother was you know she was the dominant force you know like in as a parental role in my parental role in my life and so the messages that i got came from her um she was very encouraging you know what i mean she always told me i could do what i'd be whatever i wanted i could do whatever i want to take the word can't out of my vocabulary um things like that you know but she also again she she's someone that's kind of very reserved herself she grew up in Virginia in very early time she was born in the late 50s so she saw a lot more than I saw and and she viewed the world and that lens um so it was always kind of don't do too much you know don't be seen too much you know what i mean work in the shadows but don't don't bring too much attention

to yourself because some people might not like that and um again that's kind of how the the dimming of the light started you know just like don't be don't be seen or heard too much but but be respected you know what i mean there's a sadness with that it is man it is for me like can you feel it right now like i feel it like yeah and then when you feel that sadness where do you feel it in your body my heart my chest man like it's crazy because i never even thought about it that much until until we just started talking about it um but that's that's how it is like i i've witnessed that quite a bit in other kids other black kids that i'm around like they they just they get out of their household and they're just kind of like you know i mean they're just not as confident

because that's just kind of where we are you don't know if your value is quite the same as other people's you know and so uh you know it's very sad oh god as a humanitarian myself like what the fuck you You know, so. Yeah, man. Then, you know, I don't, like I said, when it comes to, again, the, the, if you want to cross over into the like police engagement, that was another thing that I was taught because, you know, I grew up in Henrico County in Richmond and Henrico County Police Department, you know, was very notorious for that kind of view and discrimination. And so it was always, you know, you get pulled over. Don't take your hands off the steering wheel. You know, yes, sir. No, sir.

Don't ever, you know, try to be, you know, smart ass to them. You know, if they ask you to get out of the car, you know, see if make sure there's, you know, someone else watching. It was just kind of very sobering. You know what I mean? You think that and that's what that's that's kind of happens in a lot of households. And that's why, you know, a lot of us grow up to fear police more than we respect them. You know what I mean? It's just like you always assume something bad is going to happen, you know, even if it never does. And you could come across, you know, some of the best intended police officers.

But that's just how we're kind of raised in those environments. You know, so I had a real reaction the first time that this concept of white privilege was presented to me. It's like I was so, what's the word? Like, I felt, God, there's a lot of things I felt, but I'm like, wait, hold on. Like, I've had, you don't know my story. And then, and then I understand it differently. My wife is Latina, parents immigrated. And so she's like, Mike, the privilege is that you don't, because of your skin, you don't have to deal with the same things that we have to deal with. I was like, oh, there you go. Okay. Now I can get my arms around that. Like I was like, oh shit. Like, yeah. So when I get pulled over my heart thumps, um, but I don't have to worry. I have a privilege that I don't have to worry about escalating because of just the way I look. Right. I think, do I have that right? Would you say that that's one that maybe that's a narrative that is getting

at white privilege and it's bigger than that right like we could take it to other we could take it to education we could take it to whatever whatever right but yeah i think yeah it's it's just uh like i said certain environments certain cultures wherever you are um the view the initial first impression of you you know it's not skewed in any way because of your skin because of the way you look they look at you and they don't have a certain perception of you just based off of that now once you talk and you you know you're engaged in conversation and they can they'll have it there may, you know, a different perception or, but for us typically,

especially for like people like myself, like if people like out here in, I'm in LA, there's so many people that don't know who I am. They don't know if I play football. I think I'm probably, it might be an athlete, but they don't know. You know what I mean? If I'm somewhere in Seattle or. Well, paint the picture. How, how how what's your like your six six five six five two hundred and i'm about 315 you're one of the largest human beings on the planet you know like but it's like you know people that that don't la is not a big football city. You know what I mean? That's right.

But if I'm at a grocery store and, you know, like this literally happens to me at least four or five times a week. I'll park my car at a grocery store and I get out and I'm walking through the parking lot to go in and you just hear click, click, click of people in their cars locking the door. Oh, my God. That happens to me at least four times a week. You know, I'm out and about.

And it's crazy, man, because those people don't look at me as being, you know, a human, a decent human. They don't look at me as being someone that doesn't need a dime from you. Like, I don't need to break into your car for anything. You know what I mean? They don't look at me as that, but there's a threat there. Talk to me about the different chapters of your life relative to that. Cause I can imagine that some phase you're like, yes. And it, it affected you one way and then affects you another way. Like, do you, have you had chapters with that or has it been a pretty consistent experience for you? Yeah, I've had, I've had chapters with that.

When I was young, you know, it would make me a little upset. It would make me upset because I just didn't understand it. What does upset mean to you? A little angry, a little sad, a little angry because it's like, like, why do you assume that I'm going to be violent to you? Why do you assume that I want to be aggressive and take something that you have like why and it would make me angry because I'm you know I don't I've never I've never carried myself like that in the world now on Sundays I'm a different person but I never carry myself like that you know through society and um and it

is sad because I you know I don't you know I don't care to be accepted by everyone, but it's just like that's too much stress right there. I'm sure there's a stressful situation for them sitting in a car, oh, here comes this big black man. What's going to happen? Let me lock my door. And then I've actually not engaged with people, but I just look at them like, really?

Really? Really? And then that creates another awkward moment that just doesn't need to happen. As I got older, you know, you're just kind of used to it. And, you know, the thoughts just and emotions just come and go in a heartbeat. I don't really think about it too much. much it's a dis yeah it's a dismisses a dismissal of um your essence based on just the the image that you carry when you hear somebody say okay our brains are always scanning the world for danger and that's a true statement like pretty accurate right, right? Like that's, we can, we can back that up pretty well. And your brain and my brain and her brain and, you know, like we're scanning the world for danger and we're gating out all the stuff that is like, no, no, no, that's okay.

That's okay. That's okay. You can be okay. Settle down. You're okay. You know, like that's happening all the time. And when somebody looks at you and their alarm bells go up for danger. So is it because you're big? Is it because you're big and black?

Is it because you're black alone? I mean, you don't, when I look at you, you don't have, you don't have this scowl that is scary. You have a very kind face. I think like if I was to interpret your, some of your character values, kindness would be high. I'm happy to be wrong, but you know, like, so why do you, what's the narrative that you tell yourself about why that takes place for you? It's absolutely has something to do with me being big and black. I think I'll give you a more recent one. And I live in a building in Seattle, downtown Bellevue.

And there's like, you have to have a key fob to get through the doors to get into the building. I parked my car in the garage and there's a woman and there's actually an Asian woman. She's older. She walks ahead of me. She puts her key fob. She opens the door and she reaches behind her like the door closed kind of slow.

She reaches behind her and I'm probably 10 feet away from her and she shuts it. Like you're not coming in here. So then I put my key fob there. I open it for me to get in. She goes through another set of doors of the same thing. You're not coming in here. So then I put my key fob there. I open it. For me to get in, she goes through another set of doors and the same thing. So at this point, I've opened the door with my key fob for the first one. So obviously I got access to the building.

And then she does the same thing in the second one. I get through that one. And then she tries to hurry up and get on the elevator. And the whole time I'm just like, what do i do like do i stop to put her at ease and give her her space or do i just come into the building because i live here and i said you know what i'm not i'm not i'm not letting her have her comfort like i'm going into my building open the key fall back to the second one and i get on the elevator where i'm just just looking at her smiling like this. Like I

know what you're thinking? I know exactly what you're thinking. Is that the smile you're giving her? Yeah. You were in a rush to stop me from getting into my building as quickly as I wanted to. And she just had a very ashamed look, but she would never look me

in the face but i i i know for a fact that it has you know my size is part of it but it's i don't feel like if i was white and and at my size that it would be as alarming yeah i think it's uh it's unfortunate man it's unfortunate, man. It's unfortunate. It just brings up too many emotions. It doesn't need to happen. Now you put me in an awkward space because I'm always very aware and considerate of my surroundings. That's just how I've always been. And it's also helped me progress in my career. You have to be like that. There's an off the line. You're always alert and just so I'm always considerate of what people are doing around me. And I see you doing this. And now I'm faced with, okay, what do I do? Do I just let you go ahead 20 feet ahead of me? So now we can we can both just be at ease. But why

do I have to do that? Why do I have to be charged with that because you have a certain kind of view you know what i mean it's uh i hate that it's like that yeah i mean what are we going to do how do we do better in in in your thought because i know you've been putting a lot of work on this like like since, since 2017, you know, we've had, that was the first time you and I had a conversation around it. Like, um, do you want to remind people about what 2017 was about? Do you want to talk about it? Well, just like when cap took a knee, you know? Yeah. Um, yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. So Colin Kaepernick recognized the ongoing thing that we have in this country is police brutality and killings of unarmed people of black and brown colors.

It's been like this for a number of years, but over the last five years, it's become more visual with camera phones and things like that. You know, people have really been able to see murders occur you know on camera and with no consequences and no justification for it he took a knee during the national anthem and it became a you know it became the biggest stories in the country you know and a lot of people vilified for it, vilified him for it, as well as anyone else that wanted to speak up, you know, against police brutality or speak up for any kind of social injustice.

You know, I took part in it in Houston, and it definitely created a divide between me and the ownership there in the front office, which led to eventually being a major factor in me being traded. And it was four years ago. You know what I mean? And nothing's changed, and we're at a place now where everyone is looking back at that moment in time saying, okay, maybe you were on to something. How do you feel like you've conducted yourself looking back over the last four years relative

to injustice and what you stand for? You know what? I think I've always had the right view of it. I wish I had done more. I knew you were going to say that. Yeah, I wish I had done more conversations I've had you know and anyone that knows me knows that this is where I've stood for a long time and I haven't wavered you know in my beliefs but as far as doing I wish I had done more. Finding Mastery is brought to you by Cozy Earth. Over the years I've learned that recovery doesn't

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Fear is difficult to deal with. Both of those are really difficult emotions to deal with. And it's much easier to use anger, to feel anger. And so the sadness that you had at a young age about not being able to shine, not being able to share your light, be small, if you will. That sadness, how have you not mutated that into anger? This might be one of your crown jewels. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I think I've had enough. I've had enough happiness in my life. You know what I mean? I have had enough joy, you know, and I guess. But, you know, I think in these times, it's a lot easier to be that way.

It's a lot easier to be angry just looking at everything that's going on. But for me personally and kind of how I was viewed or things that I was taught, you know, to go out into the world as, um, I don't think I've, I've had enough joy and happiness, you know, to, to not worry about that. And you're not confusing that with pleasure. Like you're, you're saying the deep stuff, the enduring, like real happiness and joy, um, as opposed to like the rewards that come with winning or success or whatever. And so how have you orientated to feel joy and happiness? Like, how do you do that? Because this is something that this is independent of race. This is like, this is a human issue that many people right now we've got, I think over the numbers are over 30% of people suffer from a mental

disorder called anxiety. Now, if you want to put a depression in there, I'm going to get wild and say probably 50% of the population in the Western states in the US are suffering from a mood disorder. And that I'm saying like as a trained psychologist, like what are we doing? Yeah. So, you know, have you ever struggled with either of those? Like in a clinical sense, everybody's felt sad and everyone's felt anxious, you know, have you ever struggled with either of those? Like in a clinical sense,

everybody's felt sad and everyone's felt anxious, you know, for extended period of time, but like where it's clinical, have you ever struggled at that level? I've never been diagnosed with either of those, but I for sure feel like I have, I for sure feel like I've dealt with both at some point. Um, I think for me, what I've had to learn is to be present. That's something that I struggled with before. I have a very, a very just racing mind at times.

And you start thinking about five to 10 different possibilities and different outcomes of certain situations that haven't even happened yet. You know what I mean? Or conversations you're having, you start having a conversation and then looking, you know,

two topics down into the conversation that haven't started yet and thinking, okay, they're going to say this and how do I respond to that? You know what I mean? Like I think, yes. Yeah.

Yeah. So I think, and once you do that, you start thinking about situations and and hypotheticals that don't happen and think about a bad outcome of it and it can give you anxiety and it's stuff that's it's stuff that's like fairy dust it doesn't it doesn't exist you know what i mean and it's like and i i used to do that all the time in college i'd wake up in the morning and my mind would race so much i didn't know i didn. I didn't really even know what this thing of anxiety was.

But I know my hand would start to shake a little bit as I was brushing my teeth. And I'm thinking about, I got to do this, this, and that. And what if this and what if that? And I was like, I was in a different planet. I wasn't even in my body. It's the real thing, man. For me, I get hot. I start sweating.

And I could be in a, i go like to somewhere to an event or somewhere there's a lot of people i'm just like uh i don't know how it's going to turn out and i immediately just instead of being present in the moment i just start thinking about stuff and i get hot and um so learning that and i think again meditation i go back to that meditation helps a lot with that just being mindful and being present and being just grateful for moments like I think um you know whenever I'm like with my kids I'm not thinking about what I have to do tomorrow I'm not thinking about oh man I gotta watch film I mean this is a tough opponent coming up this week or oh man I gotta make sure I you, get on the phone with this person.

I forgot about that. Like, I'm not thinking about none of that. I'm present in the moment with my kid. And that is the total joy that you can have. Because once you start losing those moments or not being as grateful as present present in those moments it's kind of hard to really experience that and so that's something i had to learn do you have a spiritual framework um what do you mean like religion is there a religion or or a spirit outside of religion as well like a spiritual framework that you work from i'm not very religious i'm more spiritual like i said a

meditation and just um a life and heart and mind full of gratitude that's just kind of how i operate you know what i mean tell me about your mindfulness practice like is it um is there a particular school of thought that you're following or practice that you're into right now not really i mean i meditate twice a day i wake up um i try to do it as soon as i wake up and not get on my phone but it's it's hard but i make sure i get at least 10 minutes in the morning um in the evening try to get 10 to 15 20 minutes um to wind down and i pray as well outside of that outside of just outside of just sitting you know in silence and listening to the universe i pray you know what i mean i pray and i'm i'm usually just just thinking you know what i mean just being grateful you know what i mean and

saying you know putting out what I'm grateful for, things like that. So I'm going to kind of make a joke, but there's a seriousness in this, is that so you're meditating twice a day. And when I talk about meditation, people are like, yeah, I really want to do it. But then they don't do it. And here you are, like in a highly competitive alpha,

you know, razor sharp competitive environment in the National Football League. I don't know if anyone knows the book better than you, like the playbook. Does anyone know it better than you? I don't know. We got some smart guys. Yeah, we do. Yeah. Okay.

But you know, I mean, you're lock solid, rock solid there. Your attention to detail on your technique is ridiculous. Your attention to detail on rehab, recovery, you know, training, load. Like, you are the consummate pro. And here you are talking about meditating twice a day. And, my God, man. Many more people like you, Dwayne. I mean, you know, I got to give a lot of credit to my wife.

You know what I mean? Yes, you do. Good man. This is a path that she's on 110%, you know what I mean? So, you know, our conversations are kind of. That's awesome. Yeah, everything that, know she learns she shared with me um so meditation wasn't really a part of my life you know my first few years in the league

um then it's uh you know so i owe a lot to her as well good job dude i do my part in trying to spread it you know what i mean and it's not easy it's not easy like i try to tell young guys like especially in this day and age when you have so many distractions and you got so much technology and things like to just shut everything down you know what i mean it's not easy so so let's go 10 years ago this was the first time i was in the league um in the nfl and i was talking about mindfulness and meditation people were like what now what now? Like really? Come on, dude. And now we've got a rookie coming in, the rookie class coming in. And so I was asking about like,

what do you do to kind of get centered and what do you do to kind of, you know, relax and train your mind? And like, I'm just trying to not lead anyone anywhere. And two of the guys are like, Oh, every night, 30 minutes, I'm meditating. I was like, what? Rookies. Yeah, rookies. 30 minutes.

Yep. That's impressive. Yeah. I was like, all right, there you go. Like, you know, the science is ridiculous as you and I will nod our head to. And I can't find a good reason to not do it once you know the value of it, other than it's hard. Yeah. Like, it's hard.

All right. Dwayne, we didn't talk anything about ball. I knew that that was going to be the case because there's so much happening. And I don't really care about that narrative for you. But what I do care about is that you're so good at it and your character values and strengths are so high that you really have this model of great character values and virtues, if you will, work ethic, and then you put it all together. You know, there's a reason why you're one of the leaders on the team. And so I think we captured some of it, but I was surprised by one of the crown jewels here is the sense of sadness that you haven't allowed to transform into rage. And I think that that's remarkable. And not just because of where you grew up and the experiences you had, but because most people don't know what to do with deep sadness and anger is so

much easier. Blaming others, talking shit about others, being pissed off, being easily frustrated. It's much easier to do. So. Thank you, man. Thank you. As a, as a kind of little parting shot here, what do you hope? What do you hope that we can do to get through this? What do you hope people will hear this and understand in the Finding Mastery community? Where's your heart coming from? I think what I hope is that we can just have an understanding for each other. We can have empathy for each other,

compassion for each other. I think that's what it's all about i think the state that we're in right now um there's just a lot of misunderstandings and i think in order to have that uh there just needs to be a deep dive into history deep dive into the history and experience that certain people that different people have especially in this country like we all have different experiences with this country and we all have different experiences on a you know daily basis so if people can have an understanding for you know we all like us as african-americans in this country we have an understanding for what the white person's experience is here and i don't think there's enough white people to have an understanding for what our experience is like here. And they put the two together thinking, oh, well,

you should feel this way because this is how I feel about this country. So why don't you feel like that? They don't understand the experience that is this plague does for a while you know what i mean and and once there can be understanding there then i think you can have empathy for things that have transpired you know and why people feel the way they do and so i think that you know once we get there we'll be in a better place you know and i don't know when it's going to happen uh it's very unfortunate that these string of events have happened, most recently with George Floyd. But I do see a shift.

It's not pretty. It's a lot of ugly moments and a lot of violence, a lot of just anger. But there is a shift happening. There's conversations that are happening to have it happen for. And so I hope we can just not be so caught up in the initial

reaction and really look to prolong this conversation into some real change. So I'm hoping that we can get there. Whatever you're doing, I want to be part of it. You know, whatever part I can play in doing it. And that's one of the reasons, as soon as I was watching what was happening,

I was like, man, I'd love for your voice to be in this community and so um that's awesome dude so whatever i can do and whatever like if you come across are you connected to a foundation or a movement or a cause where we can direct people's energy towards that has something you know that's productive yeah as of now you know what i mean i'm working with you know just seattle you know and the fun that we have you know the players fund that we're working with and we're trying to direct you know our energy and funds to different organizations that are doing that's doing groundwork um but i definitely want to you know get on the ground myself and do more and i've been having conversations with different people on you

know kind of how to direct me into the right place. Um, but I will definitely have that for you. So awesome. All right, Dwayne, where can people find you? Um, Twitter, Instagram. Um, my username is Dwayne Brown, seven, six D U A N E B R O W N seven, six. Um, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm pretty vocal, pretty vocal these days about things that's going on. Also just try to share

some lighthearted stuff as well because we need our sanity. You're a legend. You led in this conversation with honesty, integrity, dignity, truth, vulnerability. If this isn't the right combination to lead toward

what you want, which is empathy, if you can't have empathy based on what you shared today for your experiences and people that have experienced something similar to you, we're in trouble. So you've modeled exactly what I would imagine is the availability required for people to go, Oh, I get it. Awesome. Dwayne. I appreciate you. All right. Thanks for having me, man. Great talk to you. Talk to you soon. Take care. You too. All right. Thank you so much for diving into another episode of finding mastery with us. Our team loves creating this podcast and sharing these conversations with you. We really appreciate you being part of this community. And if you're enjoying the show, the easiest no-cost way to support is to hit the subscribe

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