Finding Mastery with Dr. Michael Gervais - Marty Callner, Award-Winning Filmmaker

Episode Date: November 14, 2018

This week’s conversation is with Marty Callner, an award winning Producer and Director.His diverse resume includes specials starring Chris Rock, The Rolling Stones, Justin Timberlake, Madonna, Whitney Houston, Bette Midler, Jerry Seinfeld, Will Ferrell, Garth Brooks, Diana Ross, Britney Spears, and Robin Williams, to name a few.He is also the creator of the immensely popular and Emmy award winning HBO series, Hard Knocks, which gives viewers a look into the inner workings of NFL training camp.Marty has directed over 200 music videos, including such classics as Aerosmith’s ‘Crazy’ starring Alicia Silverstone and Cher’s ‘If I Could Turn Back Time’ filmed aboard the historic USS Missouri.He’s earned five MTV Music Awards including ‘Video of the Year’ and forty-three Emmy nominations including Callner’s back-to-back directorial nods for “Bette Midler: Diva Las Vegas” and “Garth Brooks: Live From Central Park”.For Marty it all started with his learning to “dream big.”His mom taught him that, “A man who doesn’t build castles in the air doesn’t build them anywhere.”How cool is that thought?Marty is a risk taker, an innovator, and to this day he’s looking for ways to reinvent himself._________________Subscribe to our Youtube Channel for more powerful conversations at the intersection of high performance, leadership, and meaning: https://www.youtube.com/c/FindingMasteryGet exclusive discounts and support our amazing sponsors! Go to: https://findingmastery.com/sponsors/Subscribe to the Finding Mastery newsletter for weekly high performance insights: https://www.findingmastery.com/newsletter Download Dr. Mike's Morning Mindset Routine! https://www.findingmastery.com/morningmindsetFollow us on Instagram, LinkedIn, and X.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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because I'm in Gervais, and by training and training, I am a sport and performance psychologist, as well as the co-founder of Compete to Create. And the whole idea behind these conversations is to learn from people who are on the path of mastery. That was the original design of this podcast and it has not disappointed. I mean, this has been an absolute treat and gem and steep learning curve. I hope for you too. But yeah, so what we're trying to do is sort out their psychological framework. Like how do they understand the world? How do they organize their internal world and their external world to pursue the path of mastery. And we also want to dig to understand what is it that they're craving for, they're searching for, what do they

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all the way from his love life to his professional career. I mean, he's traveled the path of mastery, producing and directing talents such as Chris Rock, the Rolling Stones, Justin Timberlake, Madonna, Whitney Houston, Bette Midler, Jerry Seinfeld, Will Ferrell, Garth Brooks, Diana Ross, Britney Spears, Robin Williams. Those are just a new few. Those are just the ones we talked about in this conversation. And he's also the creator of the ridiculously popular show on HBO called Hard Knocks, which gives viewers a look inside the inner workings of NFL training camps. And Marty's directed over 200 music videos, including the classic Aerosmith Crazy starring Alicia Silverstone.

That's where most people first met her. Shares If I Could Turn Back Time. And that's that classic iconic video where he filmed aboard the historic USS Missouri. Like his vision is grand and it's big. And he's earned five MTV Music Awards, including Video of the Year. I mean, this is almost ridiculous when you think about what he's done. And I'll tell you what, more than all these accolades and everything that the environments that he's been in and the extraordinary people he's worked with, who he is, wait until you meet him if you don't know who he is through this conversation, who he is, is far greater than anything that I'm going to be able to read. And I hope that that jumps off in this conversation. So for Marty, where did it

start? It all started from him learning to dream big. And he learned it from his mom. His mom taught him this idea, philosophy, if you will, that a man who doesn't build castles in the air doesn't build them anywhere. How cool is that? And Marty is a risk taker. He's an innovator. And to this day, he's looking for ways to reinvent himself still. And with that, let's jump right into this beautiful conversation with Marty Kallner. Marty, how are you? I'm fabulous. How are you? I mean, what a beautiful place you have. Well, yeah, the view is quite magnificent. We lived in the city in the same house for 32 years. Is that in?

In Beverly Hills. We raised six children there, me and my beautiful wife, Elisa. And we had a Chinese developer come in and make us, to quote the godfather, an offer we can't refuse. And she wanted to come to the beach. And we saw this house that was still in the frame. And, you know, we just said, well, what a great place. It's about a fourth of the size. And the view is just, you know, I wake up to see this out of my bedroom every day.

Yeah. This is what you imagine when you think of Malibu overlooking the beach, overlooking the ocean. It's like a, what is it? 200 degree view of the ocean. Well, as you know, when you first walk in, it's kind of impressive. And that's what got me. I walked in and I went, oh, I'll make the house work. Yeah.

You know, there's something about the science. I don't know if you've studied or come across the neuroscience of peripheral vision, but those, like you think about surfers, right? And they're super laid back and they're always kind of chill, at least the iconic image of surfers. Of surfers, yeah. Okay. So there's some magnesium stuff that takes place to relax the body. Right. And then the second is that they, when you're sitting out in the ocean, you get the opportunity to engage your periphery version vision. You have to. Yeah. And so it's a relaxing, it's triggers the brain like, Hey, I'm safe. I don't have to lock in on a danger, which is all very sympathetic nervous system activation.

You know, I was a baseball player and then you work with athletes and I was a pitcher. So peripheral vision for me was part of the job, you know, especially looking at first base. I was a lefty and I wanted to be deceptive. So I used my peripheral vision quite a bit. Yeah, so you understand the magic of that. That's probably one of the reasons you're here because, I mean, this view is outrageous. We're sitting outside on your patio here with a 200 degree view of the Pacific ocean. Yeah, it's true. And this is what you wake up to every morning. Yeah. From our bedroom, we wake up and the drapes open up and this is what we see.

I feel like you're on vacation. So where did it start for you? Where did your early years begin that set you down this path? Well, it was a dichotomy. Okay. I lived a very interesting childhood. I grew up, I had a dual upbringing. I was born in Chicago and raised in Cincinnati, Ohio. My parents were divorced when I was two years old, and I never saw my father again. I never resented him for it. I just understood it. And while it's lonely being a latchkey kid, it teaches you certain survival skills that tend to really work to your advantage as you get older.

And that's what happened to me. Now, when he died when I was 10. What did dad do? My father had several things. He was a champion tennis player. He was the Chicago and Illinois state champion. And he was a designer. He built and designed, I think, the first shopping center in the world called Old Orchard in Chicago.

He was very, very, very extremely wealthy. And I grew up extremely lower middle class. in Cincinnati, Ohio, you know, we had silverware that didn't match or where my mom could pick it up and stolen sweet and low packs and furniture on the wall, like ships from Kmart and nothing matched. And it was just, it was full of love, but we didn't get our first house until I was like 16. And she paid like $38,000. And she had three jobs to support the children. And she was the most influential person in my life. And I didn't even realize it until I started using all the cliches she filled me with as the cornerstones of my existence. Can you share a couple of them? Yeah.

One of them was she used to say to me every night before I went to bed, she would say, a man who doesn't build castles in the air doesn't build them anywhere. And that taught me to dream big. Wow. I've never heard that. It's fantastic. Where'd she get that from? Do you know?

I have no idea. But at the time, I resented it. But it turned out to be the foundation for my whole career. It taught you to think really big. But you had. To dream. To dream. Yeah, right. But you didn't like it.

So what is that about? No, I just didn't like the nagging. Okay. I just didn't like mom coming in and telling me that every night. Because I was young. But it nagging. Okay. I just didn't like mom coming in and telling me that every night because I was young. But it sunk in. Okay. By osmosis, it just sunk in.

And now I obviously teach it to my children and pass it on because it's the biggest lesson I ever got. I've always thought big. And if you look at my body of work, you'll see it's full of, you know, big stuff. I did the Rolling Stones in front of 2 million people and on Copacabana Beach in Rio. I mean, it just goes on and on and on. But what I was getting to is that when my father died unexpectedly at age 10, while we were struggling, he was completely obnoxiously wealthy, all right? I mean, so wealthy that they had houses all over Chicago, and they supported politicians, the best box at Comiskey Park, and the best box at Wrigley Field, and penthouse at the

Drake, et cetera, et cetera. And they said, oh, my God, he's got this kid, you know, Marty. And at that time, my nickname was Sonny. And they said, we have to culture him up. He's the last remaining caller. We need to culture him up. So from the time I was 10 years old to the time I was 18, I would spend every summer with my family in Chicago. And I would go from, I don't want to say poverty.

It wasn't poverty. But I would go from lower middle class to ultra wealthy. And all of a sudden, I would be in the penthouse at the Drake Hotel, and I'd see real Picassos, real Monets, real Chagalls, fine China, butlers. And I always wanted to go back. You know, I was in control. But what happened was is that unbeknownst to me I developed an eye because it was easy to see the difference between that art and the art that I even I didn't know I didn't really put it together

but it was all happening on an unconscious level and when when I started directing, I got known for my eye. And when you first start and you're kind of faking it and you don't know what you're doing, I got by by making everything beautiful, especially women. I shot every big diva and woman in the world because I knew how to make them look beautiful because I have great taste. And I got that from this whole experience. I was exposed to it. So it was a learning experience, and I didn't even know it happened. It happened without me knowing it. You know, Marty, there's this phrase.

Does that make any sense? Oh, God, my hair's standing up listening to this. There's a phrase that, I don't know if you've heard this phrase, but game recognizes game. And that phrase comes from this place that people who understand- That's Kobe recognizing Michael Jordan. There you go. Right? Or Kobe recognizing Federer. Right. Or Kobe recognizing-

Messi. Exactly. Right? So game recognizes game. And game recognizes game, not because they studied sub game, not because they studied the lesser than. It's because they've studied the greats. They understand what great looks like and feels like and smells like. And they understand the texture of greatness. And it sounds like the same thing for you. It's exactly the same.

I mean, I like to understand that I'm game recognizing game. That's right. But at the time, I like to understand that I'm game recognizing game. That's right. But at the time, I wasn't game. I was just a kid who was as green as, you know, as the grass. When you were looking at a Picasso or some extraordinary piece of art, it was just kind of passing by in the hallway? Or were you stopping and looking at it like, whoa? Sometimes I would stop and look at it. Sometimes it was all around me. It was everywhere.

It was everything down to the silverware. It was just all beautiful. And I didn't think much of it. I swear I really didn't think much of it. I mean, I thought it was, I mean, I ended up loving museums like the Louvre and the big museum in Florence. And, you know, I love art museums. But it's just kind of like I learned it. Louvre and the big museum in Florence. And, you know, I love art museums, but

it's just kind of like I learned it. It was a learned ability based on being exposed to it. And I found that throughout my career, if I expose myself to things, it helps in what I call the red theory, which is what I've sort of built my career on. That's surveillance, research, execution, and domination. And that's how I've done everything. I would look at something and say, that's really cool. Like music videos, okay? In 1984, I saw a music video on television, Betty Davis Eyes, by this director, Russell Mokai. I said, that's really freaking cool. And so I watched it. And then I did research. I said, well, how do they do this? I want to know how they do it. And then I kept going. And I finally said, well, I think I can

do this. And I tried one. I was very successful. And then I said, I can do it better. And then I dominated. But it was all about preparation, which is really important. It's one of the keys to mastery is preparation. There's many, many. It's not one thing. There's a lot of aspects to it.

But that's one of them. And I'm a big preparation guy. And so I would just learn and then I would be in position where I could really dominate. How do you prepare? What are the ways that you structure? I prepare differently for different things. Let's say, okay, I did Robin Williams live on Broadway. So I'm doing a comedy special. I'm directing it live. Well, Robin Williams is all over the place. And in comedy, when you're directing, when you're cutting the shots, if you go a millisecond too early, you're anticipating. If you go a millisecond late, then you've missed the joke. And I wanted to go to these extreme close-ups when he was going into impersonations. And live, you know, how am I going to do that? So I went with him on the road, and I saw 60 shows until I felt that I was him on the stage. And I finally found his tell. And then it was the, and you know, if you ever watch it,

you'll see that every time he says the word going, he goes into one of these impressions. And so I knew what the hunk was going to be. And when I heard going, I fired and I always hit it. Okay. Oh, wait, wait, wait, wait, Marty. This is so good. So you knew that you were going to shoot a live event with him. I knew it was live for HBO.

Right. And so you went on the road to study him before you were shooting? Oh, yeah. Okay. Much before. And that was to immerse yourself in the environment to understand him. In the environment. And so when he was on stage and he was going to improv, I always had a plan in my

mind I could go back to. And I kind of felt him. After seeing him so much, I kind of knew what he was going to do. Marty, how do you become a student? What are the mechanics behind you observing? How do you do that? I observe. That's what I do. I observe and I take it in and I filter. But I think you're doing it in an extraordinary way. Yeah, I filter what I need and I take it in and I filter. But I think you're doing it in an extraordinary way. Yeah, I filter what I need. It's garbage in, garbage out. I filter what I need, and when I don't, I just forget. And I know what I'm going to need, and I do the same thing with music. If I was doing Stevie Nicks, I was with her for two months,

or the Rolling Stones, or Justin Timberlake. I just go. Now, most directors don't do this. I think that's why I was paid 10 times what most directors make. But I, the reason that my stuff always stood out was because I was so prepared. You know, I did Garth Brooks live in Central Park, a half a million people. I just can't show up. All right. A lot of, I could, I could show up and do a workmanlike job and get through it, but in order to be special and put my magic into it and to take it to that next level of greatness, preparation is the key for me. And that's what I try to teach when I teach. Okay. The reason I'm pausing on this is because I think you're right

at the center of the gold on preparation. And a lot of people hear it. You got to prepare. Preparation is the separation. And there's phrases that people use to talk about how important it is. And coach Carol, the Seattle Seahawks talks about practice makes us, you know, that he's talking about the preparation and even so that we prepare our minds before we go to practice, right? So there's actually an emphasis on the thing before the thing. Right. Listen, I always shot two nights. I would shoot a first night just to practice and then study that and then do the second night. Now I did this, whether they were live or edited, but I still, it just became part of my routine.

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different about the way Michael Jordan would shoot a one step 18 foot, you know, shot at the end of the game versus the rest of the world. So if, if preparation is part of one of your king pins, I want to ask it again and see if I can go a layer deeper with you. It's like how do you observe? What is it that you do to be better? Well, let's take Justin Timberlake. You know, this show is in the round in Madison Square Garden. I had 47 cameras. so while everybody that was in New York going to dinner I would be in my hotel room with my

associate director looking at a tape a scratch tape a single camera tape of the show over and over and over again and I would plan every single shot that That's how I would observe and plan. So when I walked into the truck to direct it, everybody had a shot sheet. Everybody knew what was coming next. And, you know, that's part of the way I observe. You know, I don't observe them personally. I don't really care much about their personal lives. There's very few I've become friends with.

There are some celebrities who I've become very close to but I kind of choose to make it a love affair while I'm working for them and then move on and that's it is a love affair while I'm working with them and I try very hard for it to be that way

but it's infectious when an artist sees you working that hard they know it's infectious. You know, when an artist sees you working that hard, they know it's for them. And, you know. And when you spend time with them, like, what is it like? What was one of the greatest comedians in the world like,

Robin Williams? He was reserved. Jerry Seinfeld was hysterical. Chris Rock was just talking about politics. So they're all different. Robin was a very quiet guy, you know, and he wasn't always on. You know, like many, some comedians are always on. He was not one of those guys, you know. He was, he prepared fastidiously to make it look like he wasn't prepared.

But he was prepared. Gary Shanley used to be so scared he would prepare up until the last second. You know? Because everybody who's any good knows that when you go to the game, you got to know it michael jordan was well prepared when he made those shots he had made that shot i hate to use the 10 000 time rule but that's you know that's an over overworked cliche but it's really true in order to be decent you know and then let's say i was editing something i I edited every frame. And I knew that on music videos,

for example, the way people watched them is they didn't just stare at them. They would be kind of in the background, but eventually they would see the whole thing. So I knew that I had to make every frame, that's every 30th of a second or 24th of a second if it's film. Fantastic. Because as long as I didn't show any negative images, I was going to have a hit. No matter when you looked, it was going to be a good feeling and a good image. And that's why every one of them went to number one. It was a formula that I still use today. There was a phrase that I've heard a world-class dancer use that every movement needs to have a picture.

It's true. Yeah. And so all beautiful pictures. And that's where her grace comes from is that she's mindful and aware that every single movement that she's – and she's on point – could be snapped as a beautiful image. I agree with that. And so it has to come from that place that's 100 and not only that it's got a not only not only does it have to be a beautiful image you have to have flow there it is okay for the people that do watch it straight through so that means that it's got to have a musical rhythm to it the editing so every time i make an edit

i would go back a minute and watch the footage up to the edit to make sure it flowed right through the edit. It would take me so long. It would take people a week. It'd take me months. And I always ended up satelliting at the MTV because I worked up until the last second. And I knew if it left my hands and I loved it, the would love it that was because of my midwestern values so that was your calibration your you had first you had the internal calibration that if if i loved it and this made sense to me that it was good enough for other people like that people other people would love it too yeah so i was very difficult on myself and very difficult on the on the project. And let's say I was editing and let's say the seventh time I went through, all of a sudden something that I like started to bother me. I would take it out. And so the bar kept getting raised and.

Oh, you know, it worked. Listen, I did the same thing. I also was a cameraman and all my women, because when I got to the editing room, I had better choices because I shot it. So I always went by my own internal tastes. Now, when you said you were hard on yourself, what did that sound like? Because there's lots of different ways to be hard on oneself. There's self-criticalness. There's critique. Then there's self-criticalness, there's critique, then there's,

you know, self- I'm not hard on myself in terms of self-criticism. Okay. So what does it sound like? I'm hard on myself artistically. I'm hard on myself to make sure that I'm completely satisfied and pleased before I let it out to the public. And on the few occasions in which I ran out of time or I wasn't 100% pleased, those were the couple of times it didn't work. It ultimately flopped. So I was hard. I'm relentless. And the people around me, they wilted because people would say, that's good enough.

I say, it was not good enough for me. Have you done something publicly that's been an absolute flop? Oh, in my head. In your head. Yeah. But no, I mean, you know, listen. But then again, I set really high standards. That's what I mean by I'm hard on myself is I set extremely high standards. I want to make sure, look, if you go to my Instagram page where we're putting all my work or my web page or any of my work,

you will see that 25, 30 years later, it still holds up and it's still great because it was great when it left my hands. If it's not great, it just becomes part of the air, right? And again, this is, I worked out of fear of failure. I worked in a town where I felt that you're only as good as your last project. So I thought I had to be amazing every time or I'd never work again. So it's a combination of many different things that are entering into my head. You know, I have to please myself. I know what the public's going to be like. They're very fickle. And, you know, in order to stay near the top for 40 years, you got to be

damn good. You know, Burt Reynolds died. In in the 1970s he was the biggest star in the world he had four movies in the theater at once and then his career faded because he made some bad choices i saw it happen too many times directors actors writers you know they're ready to chew you up i said you're not chewing me up i'm gonna chew you up and what would happen if you also look you'll notice that the artist i work with you know i worked with multiple times you know i was very expensive and they always resented it but they always came back you know aerosmith 18 videos you know mick Jagger hires directors one time. I shot them exclusively for two years. I did seven specials with them in the Stones, in Brazil, in Buenos Aires,

in Paris, in Amsterdam, in New York Live, in London, Toronto. I mean, so, you know, just based on that, my principle is that however you want it to be, I want it to be better. And then right underneath, gosh, I've got fear of failure I want to talk about. I've got what you learned from some of these extraordinary performers that you've mentioned. And then I also want to hear the texture of what you actually said to yourself when something wasn't the way that you saw it in your head of what it could be. Because it sounds like part of your preparation was imagination. That was the most painful. So what would you say?

What was the actual texture that you would say? I would say you got to figure this out. Okay. So you're not saying you stupid son of a – what's wrong with me? You would say like – No, you got to solve the problem. I often say directing is problem solving. Okay, there you go. And that you will find, if you work hard enough, you will find the solution.

So when it didn't work, I would just figure out how to make it work. And sometimes it would take an hour, sometimes it would take a day, and sometimes it would take two weeks. And then if I made it work for me, since I was so hard, it was kind of easy. It was like really it was easy to win. It wasn't easy to do, but it was easy to win. What does that mean? That means that once I left my hands, I knew it was going to be a winner. But to get to that was really a challenge. And it was very painful and filled

with self-doubt. And, you know, is this any good? Even though other people would say, this is unbelievable. I'd say to myself, this is not any good. This is not any good. Because I had this 100% rule. And I just kind of stuck to it. I think that was, you know, just the way my fabric, just the way I am. If there was a director coming up right now and you and he or you and she were had a mentor-mentee relationship, would you advise the same strategy? Absolutely. I always tell people, they say, how do I direct? I said, go direct.

I said, the more you do it, the better you'll get at it. And, yeah, this is what I tell all my students. I tell them that, or all my people that show up at these lectures, exactly what I'm telling you. You know, you have to just be relentless and look at everything. I don't care how small it is as a big opportunity. The first video I did was a band that nobody ever heard of. It was called Twisted Sister.

We're not going to take it. Well, it ended up becoming iconic. And when I decided I wanted to do videos, I had this huge job at HBO. I live in this big house in Beverly Hills, And I said, I got to do this. I said, this is so artistic. They're jump cutting and crossing the line, breaking all the rules. And I said, I have to go do this. So I said to her, I said, you're willing to roll the dice. I want to quit the job, even though we're living in this big house. And I want to go try this. And, you know, to her credit, one of the reasons I love her so much,

she says, go for it. She said, we'll be fine. Just go for it. So I walked out of a seven-figure-a-year job to nothing, to nothing. And then I went to New York and I met an industry stalwart named Amik Ernegan at Atlantic Records. And I had somewhat of a name and I said you know I want to do a music video he said okay I got three bands pick one one was an Australian band

called In Excess it was fairly popular another one was a less known band called Zebra and he says I got this bar band I don't know what the hell to do with uh twisted sister so i said i want them i thought their unique brand of comedy and music fit my style you just like their hair they all had long hair and uh and so i did this video we're not going to take it you know and, and the other thing I always tell everybody, not to divert so much, is, and this, I did this as well, don't think about the results, okay? It's all about the work. The results will take care of themselves. If you do a great, and that, and even those unknowns, Twisted Sister, Whitesnake,

Alicia Silverstone, Tawny Contain. Nobody knew any of these people. I didn't think, oh, I'm going to do this and this is going to be the biggest band in the world. Or I'm going to do this and she's going to be a star. I just did the work and the results took care of themselves. People say that all the time, Marty. I say it myself. And I fundamentally believe that investing all of my essence into the process, all of my energy and my focus and my commitment to what's happening in the present moment is going to lead to something later that will be extraordinary. But if I'm betting now on something later and the cost is losing the fidelity of this moment. That's a life not worth living. So the idea is like to be completely immersed in the process and the outcome will

take care of itself, whatever that outcome is. But that is really almost cliche. Well, so how do you, how do you harden that? Here's how my career went. Every one of these projects, whether it be Madonna or Cher or any of them, I could have been a fame whore and become very famous out of all of them. I decided, based on how I grew up, that my energy was going to be put into my family. Because in order to be famous, you have to work at it. So what I worked at was my family and thought, you know, I'm going to do all this great work, and what's going to happen is that when I get older,

I will be known for a body of work, and that's exactly what happened. With the advent of the Internet and YouTube and Instagram and Facebook, I became known for a body of work. That's what I said. That's what I believed. And that's what happened. I didn't care about the individual results, even though they were spectacular. I now have this incredible body of work and I can go to anything I've ever done and look at it and still love it. And it's because I loved it then,

except the ones I didn't love, okay? I remember there was a heart video I did once, and there was a shot of Van Wilson I hated, and I let it out, and I hated the video ever since. So that was the only time that happened to me, and never going to happen again, and never happened before, and, you know, I'm not perfect, but I hit most of

the time what are you searching for in the deepest part of being marty i'm i'm always searching for reinvention i'm now doing a new you know i created a show on hbo calleds, which was, you know, outside my realm. You know, I was a music and comedy guy. Even though I'd come from sports, and I created this show called Hard Knocks that I know was going to be on 15 years and be the most popular sports show in history and win all these Emmys.

No, it's exceeded my expectations. But that was a reinvention. First, I did the news, and I got bored, and I reinvented myself. I did sports, and I got bored. I reinvented myself, and I did stand-up comedy, and I reinvented myself and did music, and reinvented myself and did videos and concerts and reinvented myself and created, you know, television series. And now I'm just starting the Stand-Up Comedy Hall of Fame, which I'm doing for Netflix. I'm actually starting a Stand-Up Comedy Hall of Fame with a building and a charitable organization.

It's another reinvention. And I've rejected offers to do things that I've done in the past, even though they come in and they're lucrative because I'm going through another reinvention. And I hope to continue to do that until I'm no longer on the earth. I hope. Yeah, brilliant. Where do ideas come from for you? Out of the air. They come, they just come. They come everywhere. How do you prepare yourself to be connected to the ideas that emerge? I'm not sure you can prepare yourself.

I know that when they happen, I have to execute. Now, this stand-up comedy hall of fame, I sold it 10 years ago to Comedy Central. We got off the ground and they decided they didn't want to do it. I got it back. It took me 10 years, but I sold it. It took me two years to get Netflix to agree. But they did agree because it was a great idea, and I knew it was a great idea, and I know that I'm fairly passionate and a pretty good salesman, and I, you know, got it done.

So I don't know if I prepare. I think I just do. You know, I think I just exist. Like you said something earlier, I really do live in the moment. Okay. I know you said something about living in the moment, but I really do. My whole family, we were going to get tattooed, although we chickened out on our, on our wrists. All my kids, everybody was going to say, be here now in Sanskrit, because I believe in that. And I think that that's part of the success

is living in the moment. As you know, you've heard it, you know, you can't do anything about the past. because I believe in that, and I think that that's part of the success, is living in the moment. Because you know, you've heard it, you can't do anything about the past. You make God laugh, make plans for the future. You just have to live in the moment. I live in the moment. This is a great moment. So I'm living in this moment right now. This is the most important thing to me at the present moment.

This is what I'm doing right now. I've always had that mindset. And I think that really helps when I do projects because I'm in the moment of that project. And that's, I don't do multiple projects at once. Although I have a lot of offers and the money is often tempting. And I've always been about long-term goals. And that's another thing I try to teach people and my children as well. Forget about the short term. Think about long-term goals. And that's another thing I try to teach people and my children as well. Forget about the short term. Think about long-term. Finding Mastery is brought to you by Cozy Earth. Over the years, I've learned that recovery doesn't just happen when we sleep.

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It's about choosing better. And when your day demands clarity and energy and presence, the way you prepare for it matters. If you're looking for high quality personal care products that elevate your routine without complicating it, I'd love for you to check them out. Head to calderalab.com slash finding mastery and use the code finding mastery at checkout for 20% off your first order. That's Caldera Lab, C-A-L-D-E-R-L-A-B.com slash Finding Mastery. How do you develop deep focus? Because you have an extraordinary ability to focus deeply, you can live in the present moment. So what do you do to cultivate that? It just happens. I think I cultivate it by practice. I think it's funny because I remember in the first days of music videos,

and I did 200 of them, but I remember in the first days, you'd get a song on a blank piece of paper, and you'd stare at it for like a week, trying to figure out what the heck you were going to do. And the more I did them, the easier it became to come up with the ideas until the point where I was creative every day so I could write a video in a day. So it's just repetition and practice until it becomes part of you,

all right, and part of your natural being. It's not something you can think about or plan. It just happens by doing it, you know. I didn't want to fail, so I just wouldn't give up until I, okay, that's a great idea. And, you know, the definition of a good director is to listen to everybody's ideas, take the ones you want, and take credit for them all, you know. So, I mean mean that's a so i'm open i'm open to ideas where do you get them from but i have the ultimate say so

what does that mean that you have the ultimate say oh i'm the reason i haven't done a feature is because they don't want to give me final cut and all my music videos and all my television specials i had final cut. So I can listen to every idea and select the ones I want because nobody can tell me, you know, what's good and what's not. Also, the reason I became a producer director and not just a director because, you know, the producer is the money guy and the director is the artist. And in the beginning, I was just a director and I'd sell want another camera and a producer would fight me. I said, you know, the heck with this.

And I became a producer. So if I want another camera, I say, Marty, we want another camera. Can you afford it? I say, OK, I'll take something out of here and do that. And it just made it easier to get to my vision. And I think you have to have a vision. I think you definitely need a vision for each project. And that just comes from, you know, writing it, working it.

Even concerts, I have visions of what I want it to be. How do you develop your vision? Again, repetition, practice. Yeah. So one of the things that I think are really important and foundational for people is to spend the quiet time to get clear. You know, in this very noisy, fast-paced Insta world that we live in, to create enough space to say, where am I going? What does three days, three years, 30 years, like what are those milestones looking like? And it's not like it has to be crystal clear for the 30 year, but even the three day,

three year is really important. And then I encourage people to thin slice it. And I'd love to hear your thought on this is it can be overwhelming to think about what is the vision for my life that can seem... I have no vision for my life. Okay you were talking about vision for my vision in my art in your art in my projects i don't have create milestones okay because i could hit by a bus tomorrow i create no milestones i really truly live in the moment when that moment's over it it's over. You had a sense, though, earlier that you wanted to have an extraordinary body of work. No, I said I'd be known for it. I just wanted to have each project to be great. But I knew that I'd be known for a body of work.

I would have loved, after every project, for me to be exalted. But it didn't happen because I didn't cultivate that part of it. Because in order to have that, you have to cultivate that. What does that mean? I'll give you an example. Yeah. Okay. Hold on real quick.

Does that mean that you are not interested? You really wanted some attention or some accolades, but like that was just noisy and you knew that it was not going to help? I knew it was all BS. It was BS. But at some party you wanted it? Yes. Okay.

Cool. Just because everybody wants it, okay, in some way. Although it wasn't high on my priority list. So I did an experiment. One year I did a music video for Aerosmith called Living on the Edge. Okay. It happens to be my personally favorite video I ever did. It was nominated for nine MTV Awards.

We lost the first eight. We were all pretty pissed off. Okay? But, okay, we rationalized that nobody cares about these. Who won last year and everything. So I said, I just want to see if I work at winning the video of the year and lobby for it and make that a goal for next year's video that I'm going to do with Aerosmith, can I make it happen?

And that's what I did. I did this video crying. I got the record company to lobby for it. And you know what? It won video of the year. I was done after that. I got the record company to lobby for it. And you know what? It won video of the year. I was done after that. I could see what happened, okay? It's a different art, one I'm not interested in.

But that's an art, too. Winning these awards, which mean absolutely nothing, except for the Oscars and the Grammys, because they mean money. But the other, the Emmys and all that, I mean, I got so many Emmys you could choke on. But the other, the Emmys and all that, I mean, I got so many Emmys you could choke on. But they mean zero. You know what's cool is they're not in your home. I got one in there.

You won? I have one. I keep three. I'll show you. I keep three Moon Men and one Emmy. The rest of them I all have in storage. I just keep one in there. But they're not.

In case you forget. No, they're just kind of nice looking, you know my grandkids, you know, stuff it's just like they want to give me a star in the Walk of Fame, I don't really care about it but it's nice for my grandkids to say, oh there's Gramps, you know that kind of thing, but

so, what I'm saying, I don't know if I've ever articulated like this before, but I'm saying, I don't know if I've ever articulated like this before, but I'm learning about myself as I speak to you. But, yeah, I didn't care about the awards. I knew they were crazy. It meant nothing. Many people, that's all they care about.

That's all HBO cares about. That's all Netflix cares about. They want those bragging rights. But they don't mean anything. It's all subjective. What means something is when the public buys it. That means something. That's real. When an NBA player wins a championship, that's real. That's a lot of hard work. That just doesn't come just because of talent. It's funny. I have a lot

of friends in the National Football League. I have a lot of friends in the NFL, okay, because of this show that I do. And what happens is that when they get to training camp for the first time, all of a sudden they've been stars in high school, college, peewee football. Now they're on a stage where everybody's as big and as fast as they are. So what's the difference? Mental. And that's what all my all-pro football players tell me. The difference is mental, and that's what all my all-pro football players tell me. The difference is mental.

And that's what you do. You work on the psychology, and that really is, that's the difference between making or not making it. And that's what Hard Knocks is all about. You know, making it, making it's great. The consequences of not making it are horrible. And it's razor thin. The criteria is razor thin between who makes it and who doesn't make it. It's the ones who can have the brain or the ability to be mental,

to go out there and know they're going to win and feel they're going to win and feel that shot going in. Those are the ones that succeed. Kobe, all mental. Jordan, all ones that succeed. Kobe, all mental. Jordan, all mental. LeBron, all mental. Yeah, they're great physically, but a lot of guys are great physically. A lot.

What are the mental skills that you've used to build and refine your craft? Well, it's complicated. It is complicated. I don't think there's just an easy answer for that. I think it's a lot of things we talked about, you know, preparation and stick-to-itiveness and taste and a little bit of talent, a lot of luck. You have to have some luck. I was smart. I picked good songs because no matter how good a director I was on a music video, if I had a bad song, it wasn't going to work.

And no matter how bad director I was, if I had a good song, it was going to be good. It's a mixture of many, many, many things. I think you've got an extraordinary ability to do mental imagery, to use your imagination to create something that hasn't been created yet first in your mind. So I think you've got- You got a good point there. Yeah. So I think you've used mental preparation and mental imagery probably in a world-class way. I visualize. Yes.

Okay. That's one of the things I do. And do you see the color? Do you see the texture? Can you smell it? Can you hear it? Can you feel it? Can you get your hair to stand up? You know,

it has to stand up. Absolutely. Now, many people, I talked to a lot of athletes. It's all magic. And a lot of musicians. And you know what they say?

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. I do it. I do imagery. The best of the best of the best, the 0.5, 0.5%. They spend discipline time in it. The rest who are

extraordinary, don't get me wrong. They're doing it as they're walking to their car. They're doing it as they're driving. That's not it. As much as I practice imagery, I can't get the good stuff with a lot of distractions going on. So would you sit down and do imagery or like, how did you train imagination? Well, in the beginning I would sit down, but the more I did it, the more it became part of my fabric. Yeah. That I would say that that's true. And that's, that's where it is today. You know, if someone's telling me a story, I visualize the whole story and you know, and so that's what happens. And I remember the first special I did for HBO was called An Evening with Robert Klein.

Robert whom? Klein, a comedian named Robert Klein. It was 1975. I didn't know what the hell I was doing, okay? But that was part of my deal at HBO is I would get all the specials. And we filmed it at Haverford College. And I always thought it was important to sprinkle my magic on it.

Now that's intrinsic, and it's kind of like intangible, you can't really describe it. So I did this show, and it was truly magical and truly wonderful, but technically, it had a lot of issues. There weren't enough close-ups. It wasn't covered in the proper way. Audience lights were on. There were so many mistakes. It was amazing. And I took it back to my boss at HBO. He took one look at it and he says, you're out of here. I said, what, really? He said, I'm not airing this.

I said, what are you talking about? It's magical. You have to air it. It's incredible. He said, not enough this, not enough that. I said, I'm telling you, it's not about form. It's about content. It works, okay? And part of the things I say is form follows

content. Even in the beginning, when I made things beautiful, I learned along the way that it's about the inside, not the outside. So I turn it in, and I remember I was in New York, and I called my ex-wife, and I said, you think I can get my job back at BZ at $14,000 a year because I'm done. And I'm sitting in a hotel room. It's very lonely, and there was a big power struggle at HBO between the guy that was my boss and the guy that hired me, a guy named Jerry Levin, and he said, we're going to air it.

It's in our program guide. It's not that bad. To make the story short, I was as depressed as you can get. And on January 1st, the next day, John O'Connor in the New York Times wrote four columns about this show and wrote program marked by innovative process. I don't know where they got Marty Kallner, blah, blah, blah. Next thing I knew, I was signed to a three-year deal at three, at 10 times the money I was making and given two series based on one review, but it had magic. So everything I do, I try to speak and can I explain what magic is? It's a feeling. Okay. It's just a feeling. Okay.

That when you watch it, you feel good. It makes you feel good. And then why do you feel good? Because you feel good every step of the way. There's no places not to feel good. Does it make sense? And that's my formula. It's that simple. It made me feel good.

I kept it. I didn't analyze it. It could be the ugliest shot in the world, but it made me feel good. I kept it. I didn't analyze it. It could be the ugliest shot in the world, but it made me feel good. I accepted it. I knew if I felt good, other people would feel good. You know, like the consistency of your approach is really becoming clear, you know, and there's a past guest on, on the Finding Mastery podcast called Bob Hurley, the, uh, the founder of Hurley Brand for Surfing. And one of his guiding principles in life was I want to experience magic. So I organized my life to bring as much as I possibly can into the world and experience what other people have engaged and created magic

that I'm there to receive. And so it's a give and take. It's a shared experience. And you have to recognize it. When I saw Betty Davis' eyes that day on the Z Channel, I said, this is magical. I want to create some of this magic. Was that an inspiration for you, Betty Davis' eyes?

That was the one. Yeah. Yeah, that was the one that I saw. I was laying in bed. It came on. I went, holy Toledo. I don't think I used those words, but yeah, it was magical. And I always loved this director because everything he did was magical. And that's how I

gauge, that's why I like Mike Nichols and people like that. What is your signature? What is Marty's signature? That's my signature. It is your signature? What is Marty's signature? That's my signature. It is. It's magical. Indescribable people go, I just feel good when I watch it. I have a couple of signatures. One that is always bigger than life.

And two that is magical. Okay. I try to make my stars bigger than life. That's part of my job. Not always my job to tell a story and all that, I also have to protect my stars and make them come off incredible. So I applied the same thing to them. I would shoot, for Alicia Silverstone, I shot 40,000 feet of film to get

10 seconds of magic. And what happens is, the more I shot, the bar kept going up, right? Because I had more choices. And what I ended up with was all these magic moments. People at home don't know that I threw away 99% of it. They only know what I showed them. They went, oh my God. Next thing I knew, I put her in a video. Next thing I knew she was on the cover of Rolling Stone. How about Mick Jagger? Was he already magic? He was already magical. I had a different approach to Rolling Stones.

Where did he come from? What was he like? He's the brains of the Rolling Stones. But the beating heart and the balls is Keith Richards. And after studying this band long enough and looking at all the things they had done i had realized that all the directors were focusing mostly on mick jagger to the point where he would sing a phrase and then there'd be a guitar fill and jagger would do business and the directors would always go to him doing business i I didn't do that, okay?

I went to Keith Richards in the guitar fields, okay? So much so that after the show in Madison Square Garden live, I'll be goddamned if I didn't get flowers the next day from Keith Richards. And this guy, he pulls knives on people. I was going to write a book. It was going to be, you know, Keith sent me flowers. And to Jagger's, to his ability to not be, you know, a spoiled star, he recognized that. And that's why they kept hiring me. I'm sure he was relieved not to have to carry it all the time. And,

you know, so I don't know what question I'm answering but that's a as Mick Jagger you know Mick Jagger is a really intelligent guy and really knows what he's doing and he's 75 years old and dances around like he's 30 takes impeccable care of himself you know he runs every day he's got a he's got a trainer he's got a chef And if you walk into his hotel room, it's 90 degrees. Just the way he does it. But he's a pro. What is your heart like? Your head is clear.

Your head and the way that you organize your thoughts and your words are... I think I'm all heart. Okay. I think that's what it's all about. Okay. So talk to me about your heart, the quality of your inner emotional life. Well, I'm flawed like everybody else, but I'm so fortunate that I have such a wonderful family that, you know, my kids, my son works with me. I have lunch with him almost every day.

He's 31 years old. Our kids are really close to us because that's where I invest in my time. And my heart, you know, I don't know how to describe it. I just try and put it into everything. You know, I just put my heart into it. And I think that's why artists love me. And when they meet me, they can feel my heart i met garth brooks okay i meet him i just finished a special with bett midler got nominated for 10 emmys she won the emmy i go i go in to meet that's a really cool like yeah i just got done shooting a world class whatever with bett midler and i bump up against garth and I go in to see Garth Brooks and I'm feeling pretty confident

I'm feeling this guy's really lucky to have me so he had this production office on 20th Century Fox and I walked in there just him and I and his first words to me were I don't want to use you and I don't want to like you. That's how it started. So I kind of laughed, and I just was myself and had a conversation like we're having now.

And then after about an hour, I got up and I said, well, it was really nice to meet you, and I walked out, and he said, I'll see you in New York. All right? A dream of mine was to shoot Mick Jagger and the Rolling Stones. I remember Elise and I went there and we couldn't even get in. I saw them the year I won the MTV Music Video of the Award, Video of the Year, and they performed. And I said, God, I want to shoot these guys. I want to shoot these guys. So I got a call from HBO and said from this woman Nancy Geller who was a big big believer in me

and said okay we're doing the Rolling Stones they have somebody they want to use I've insisted that Mick Jagger meet you doesn't want to but I insisted that he meet you so I go to the Four Seasons and my mindset was okay if I don't get the job, at least I get a chance to spend an hour and meet Mick Jagger. Who can say that?

And that's the way I went in, just to enjoy the moment. And I think he felt my heart because I walked out. He said, okay, we'll let you know. I said, oh, it's an audition. And I went over to the soccer field in Beverly High to see my daughter play soccer because I never missed a game. And the phone rang and they said he wants you. Took 15 minutes. So that's all based on heart. That's all based on the ability for others to feel your heart. My wife's got the biggest heart of anybody I've ever met in my entire life. I could tell from the handshake and the eye contact when I first met her that she's got the big, I'm talking about you.

She's got the biggest heart of anybody I've ever met. She will to a fault do something for other people rather than do it for herself. And you felt that when you met her, that's exactly the point. I got a lot of it from her. Okay. When she, it's true. I mean, when I met her, I said, this is the healthiest person I've ever met. And just by observing her, he became part of me. So I think I always had it, but I really got a chance to see it up close and personal. And that, uh, and you know, and when you're a star and you have heart and you're nice,

people really want to work with you. You know, you're not an asshole. You had no idea who I was going to be when you came in here today, but you can see what I'm all about. And that's what she's all about. And she's got, yeah, she's got more heart than anybody I've ever met ever. And everybody knows it. What are the guiding principles for your family love life? Respect of one another and love, love, love, and more love, and understanding, and patience. And, you know, I've always been of belief that people should exceed at their own rate and didn't put pressure on my kids to be something they weren't. My early child from my first marriage, I put them in Montessori school

because they would encourage the things that they were good at. And so I think that's what it's all about. We just love our children, and they love us, and it's just a mutual respect kind of thing. I think that's my greatest achievement in life is my family. And I think the reason I did that is because I didn't have a family. I wanted it. So I got it.

I'm lucky. I throw all that away for the family. Where do you get yourself in trouble? Where do you find that you get in your own way to the point where you don't love well, you're not respecting properly, you are internally chaotic? What gets you off center? It's usually when I'm starting something I don't know much about and I'm journeying into the unknown. You know, a journey into the unknown is really scary. That surprises me for you.

But once you get into the unknown and get through it, that's the only true reward there is. So I'm just trying to think of something that fits the category. I think that journey under the unknown sometimes throws me off a little bit. And is that – If I was going to go operate on your heart, that would throw me off a little bit. Thank you. Would you do it? I would Thank you. Would you do it? I would do it.

You would do it? Yeah. Because... I'd figure it out. You'd figure it out. It's all a puzzle. I always say editing, it's all a puzzle. And our job is to put the puzzle together and come up with solutions.

Problem solving. I'm trying to teach my son, he's very talented, more talented than I am, but problem solving. And he said something to me yesterday that made me feel so good. He said, can I sit in with all the meetings with you and just observe? I won't say anything. And I said, yeah, that's how I learned. I learned about business by sitting in with Michael Fuchs at HBO. That's how I learned. You know, I learned about business by sitting in with Michael Fuchs at HBO. That's how I learned.

I'd watch him do things and, you know, I didn't know about them. So, again, and I told my son the same thing. I said, you'll choose the things you like. You'll reject the things you don't like. And that will become who you are. Not going to like everything. How can you like everything? Excuse me.

One second. We're getting adjusted. This is part of my mother's thing. She used to always teach me. No, no, no, no, no. She used to always teach me accept and adjust Alright, am I good?

Can I have a kiss? 38 years, baby That's what's up How'd you guys meet? That's a whole story You want it? Oh, yeah How'd you guys meet?

She knows I can tell the story Okay How did you guys meet? She knows I can tell the story. Okay. I was just going through a divorce. I was a single director living in Hollywood. I was handsome, rich, and single. And I was living the bachelor life that you can only dream of i was going to the playboy mansion every week i was handsome i had as many women as you could possibly want it was the 80s the early late 70s and the 80s it was wild wild. It was fun. No way I was going to get married again. No way

I wanted a relationship ever. There wasn't a chance in the world. No chance. And I had this friend named Ellen Kras. I said, where should I get a haircut? Elisa is a world-class hairdresser. And she said, well, go into this shop. There's these two Israeli sisters. She says, don't fall in love with them because they're married. They're both beautiful, but don't fall in love with either. And when you walk in, you can see a picture on the wall. You saw it of her and her sister. She says, don't fall in love with either of them because they're married. I said, I'm not falling in love with anybody. I said, let's start with that principle. So it's a Friday afternoon, and I happen to get an appointment with her. She's cutting my hair, and I said to her,

where's someplace to eat around here? I'm really hungry. She whips around, and she had this big loaf of French bread she was obviously taking home to her family for Shabbat dinner, and she whipped around. She took a hunk off. Said, here, take some of this. I said, hmm.

Well, I want to be friends with this woman. So she was married. I became friends with him and her husband. And it was clear to me during the friendship that her marriage was really in deep, deep trouble. And she kept trying to fix me up with all these girls. I mean, gorgeous Israeli women. And I keep thinking, I really like the matchmaker. I started to really like kind of fall for her.

This is after months. And so he decided that they were having one of their numerous arguments, which happens to people who get married too young. You know, I always tell my kids, no marriage before you're 30. And he says, I'm going to teach her a lesson. I'm going to go to Germany for six weeks. That was a big mistake. I moved in like Grant moved in on Richmond. I said to her, first thing I did was come to dinner

and I got the chef from Michael's to cater a dinner for just us, four of us. She saw the show I did with Diana Ross. Wait, who's the other two? Two friends of hers. She brought a chaperone. Oh, okay. Okay.

And she was looking at some of the stuff I did, and she saw the show I did with Diana Ross, which was really an amazing show from Caesar's Palace. And I could see she was kind of falling for me a little bit. And finally I said to her, now remember, this time I was raising my two boys because my wife was on a USO tour, and she was raising her two children because he was gone,

and I said, you want to go on a little trip for a week? She said, okay. So at the time I was working, I wasn't in rock and roll yet, and I was working with Liza Minnelli. So I asked her, I said, where is the most romantic place in the world? She said, Bora Bora. I said, okay. I can show you pictures on the wall from this.

So I said to her, you want to go to Bora Bora? Now, she had just moved here from Israel, so she thought like Bora Bora was like going to Tijuana. She had no idea. It was nine hours away, and I kidnapped her. And we go to Papayette, and we go to Bora Bora. And in Bora Bora, we stayed in the Hotel Bora Bora, a hut on the water, you know, where the manta rays come up. And it's just the most romantic thing you could possibly dream of. And I said to her, I said, oh, oh, oh, and there's nothing you can do there.

Okay, you can't, there's no radios, there's no telephones, there's no televisions, there's no theaters, there's no, you make love, you eat, you snorkel, and you talk. And I found that the biggest aphrodisiac in the world is communication. Right? So we had this cathartic week where we just communicated, and we were basically married by the end of the week in our minds. So I said to her at the end of the week, I said, this is too good, Let's stay another week.

She said, okay. She called up her nanny. I called up mine. We said, we're staying another week, blah, blah, blah. Okay. Now two weeks are over. I said, this can't be over yet. I said, let's go from all this serenity and all this nothingness to action. She said, okay. So we went right from board of order to Las Vegas. Okay. Now we're in the Dunes Hotel. We made so much noise making love that the security guards came in to make

sure I wasn't beating her. But we had this aura around us. I was telling you about magic. We had this energy and aura around us. We couldn't lose. We weren't even gambling. We just walked by a table and we'd win. We just couldn't lose. And we said, okay, let's go to the crowd table for an hour and we'd win. Well, we ended up, to make the story short, we won about $40,000. We only had like a thousand.

Wait, hold on. This story has taken so many. I've got another turn. I'm not done. Okay. This goes from like, I was married. I was getting my hair cut to now I'm winning $40,000. And I said to her, okay, this is not real money.

Let's go to New York and spend it and spend another week. She said, okay. Now it's three weeks. We're going for another week to New York. We've got a suite at the Carlisle Hotel. We've got a limo to take us wherever we wanted to go to sit outside because we had this $40,000 we wanted to spend. We never left the hotel room. We left one time.

We come back after a month. She said, okay, I'm going home. I said, go home, get your kids and move in. And that's what happened. I said to my boys, you guys are sharing a room right now. She said to her kids, we're moving. They were one and three. And the next thing I knew, we're moving. They were one and three. So, you know, then the next thing I knew we were a family and that's, and that's what happened. Good story, huh? Yeah.

I've never heard anything like it. Anything like that. Before you leave, I'll show you the Bora Bora picture. So you guys are both risk takers. Uh, that's very much, very, very much. And that's very evident in my work. Okay? I take risks in everything I do.

Big risks. Okay? When I did Mark Anthony in Madison Square Garden, I did an eight-minute shot. One mistake, you're done. I can take you through. I'm not going to do it now. But I can take you through everything I've ever done and show you the risks. It was a risk doing Twisted Sister. It was a risk leaving HBO. It was a risk not taking the NBC sports job and taking the HBO job for a third of the money. It was a risk. We're risk

takers. And every one of my projects has risk built into it, every single one. What's underneath the risk-taking? Is it an adrenaline rush? Is it a drive for the creative expression that you've got to let go of the first vine to get to the second vine? Is it you fundamentally believe that the future is going to work out, so why not? What's the thing behind the risk-taking? It's part of my genetics. Okay, so it's not part of a psychological approach.

It's part of the genetic. No, it's just part of who I am. What does that mean? That means that I inherently take risks. My whole family was risk-takers. And that's why they did so well. So I just automatically, I don't know, I never tried to intellectualize it. I just automatically find myself doing things that have never been done before.

When I did Britney Spears, I did this thing where I went in and did a pre-edit thing on a computer, and it cut shots. I don't want to get into the whole technical aspect, but it had never been done before. They said it couldn't have been done. When I did Diana Ross in Caesar's Palace, she was wearing a white dress. The engineers, this is in 1979, and, you know, white was a terrible color for television at that time. Everything would blow out.

And they said, tell her she can't wear white. I said, I want everything white. I said, I want the dresses white. I want the microphone white. I want the the dresses white. I want the microphone white. I want the mic stand white. I want the floor white. I want the band in white tuxedos. I want everything white.

They told me I couldn't do it. So I figured out how to do it. I put in these low contrast filters. I turned this negative to a positive, and all the white glowed, and it was magical and beautiful. So I took a risk. But that's just who i am i don't think about it i just do it does that make sense there's no thought to it how about this that you take the negative to the positive absolutely and you turn it into a glow that's right like as as a genetic not, let me not say it that way,

as a golden string throughout your life, risk-taking, you just became animated when we talked about risk. Yeah, it's a big thing. Yeah, you became alive when we were talking about it. Yeah, that's the thing I forgot to even talk about. But that's really the difference, the separation. Robert Klon, I went under the bows. I went for college with a handheld camera. Never been done before.

They were big studio cameras. I made these guys, you know, I have three guys hold it. I wanted it to be verite. Why? I can't. I don't know why. I really don't know why, but stand-up comedy Hall of Fames, big risk. Hard knocks, big risk. How's the NFL owner is going to approve, break the shield?

You know what it's like to break the shield? You can't break the shield. I took a risk. So I'm going to try. Marty, how do you describe or articulate mastery? It's a complicated question. I think we've talked a lot about it today. There's a lot of things that go into mastery. Certainly preparation is one of them. Certainly

practice is one of them. And I've learned lately that the only way to be able to be a true master is to be able to teach it and to share it. That's when you find true mastery. That's what I learned in the last two years. And I think that even though I'm over 70, I honestly believe I'm just getting started. And, you know, that's the way I believe. And, you know, I'm not ready to sit on the farm. Hopefully not, as long as they'll have me. Yeah. I'm not ready to sit on the farm. Hopefully not.

As long as they'll have me. Yeah. I'm sure they will. In that vein, what would you hope? Anyone who's listening to this and as enthralled as I am in how you've organized your life and your inner world, what would you hope there'd be one or two or three things that they could walk away with that are very applied?

First of all, I've done my homework on you. And the fact that you're enthralled is a really big compliment to me. So I really appreciate that. Did you just bring your A game for this conversation? I must have. I doubt it. Yeah. No, this is you.

Yeah. This is me. Have you represented yourself well? I don't know. I hope so. Authentically. Just honest. I've been honest.

Yeah, it feels that way. Yeah, I've been totally honest. Candid and honest. So if I've represented myself well, it's for others to decide. But I've been myself completely. Very comfortable. Very honest. I haven't thought about what I was going to say.

I had no filter. So my phone's's ringing but i'm not answering it um i've enjoyed it immensely but i'm sorry i didn't mean to interrupt you go ahead and compliment me some more oh you're all right um you gotta be you gotta be smart to be funny oh my god you know i i was on i had a guest on who was a comedian. And I said to the comedian, I said, you know, I'm actually really nervous because comedians are so wicked smart and so fast and so on it. And it cuts you down and builds you up and, like, ragdoll you around in, like, nanoseconds. And so I really have a respect and fear of, you know, people that have that wit. I wasn't always that funny.

I was always kind of funny. But working with all these comedians all these years, I got funny. You know, I became funny. It's just, it's like anything else. It's learned. But you have to be smart. I like stand-up comedians. They're tortured, but they're smart.

You know, and we're smart, you know. And we're also giving back with this. And by the way, did I promote my Instagram page? And you got my handles. Oh, yeah. Only because it's Marty Kallner, C-A-L-L-N-E-R. It's a very interesting, fun, entertaining page. Okay. So it's all it's meant to be,

is to be able to entertain people in a minute. I treat that like I treat everything else. Okay. To me, I was explaining this to my son the other day. I said, there's no small things. Everything matters. I don't care. And I tell this to people I lecture to.

You never know who's watching. You never know who's going to You never know who's going to see it, who's going to hear it. Everything matters. Everything. I love it. You know, something that has been a influence that Coach Carroll has had on me is there's a phrase that he uses, which is everything counts. And there's been a guiding principle, like when he and I collided in so many ways, you know, and it's just, I don't know, one plus one feels like it's 11, not two, is that there's been a guiding principle for me prior to that, which is that there's no such thing as a big moment. There's no such thing as a big

game, a big quarter. There's no such thing as a big play. Every play has equal value. And when you can figure out how to create a life experience that this moment, the one we're having matters as much as the moment when somebody is on stage and you're filming them, that therein lies some of the preconditions for mastery and also freedom, right? Because there is a torture on the other side that I'm going to be better. I'm going to be different. I'm going to be something extraordinary when the lights are on. Forget about it. You got to be that now. Yeah. And you have to have freedom.

OK. I mean, that's without that, you really can't truly express who you what you are, who you really are. You know, I really love Pete Carroll for saying all that. I agree 100 percent with him that they all count. So here's a phrase that I've used a long time. I'd love for you to respond to it. Before we get to your other two gems that you're talking about, takeaways, is that the way you do small things is the way you do all things. I love it. Love it.

Can I borrow that? Yeah, you can have it. Okay, Mom, thanks. Yeah, the way you do it. Right. it. Can I borrow that? Yeah, you can have it. Yeah. Okay, mom, thanks. Yeah, the way you do, right. I'm surprised because the advice mom gave you early, which was game changing, you bucked against. By the way, you bucked up against a lot of different powerhouses in your profession. So that contrarian inner fight way about yourself seems like different now. Yeah. Yeah. Now I like to soak it in and now i'm at a

point in my life i can be selective so i hear that and i can so that's that's going to be part of my nomenclature oh that's great saying yeah isn't that right yeah it's true so then it gives us it raises our attention to the importance of the small things. And you said it earlier, this to me is as important as shooting McChattery. It really is in this moment. I will take that as a compliment. Beautiful. Okay. Two takeaways that people listening that maybe you can enhance the quality of their life, their wellbeing, and potentially even their performance in their craft. What would those two takeaways be? I think I've articulated them so far, but just to re-express them.

One, never give up. Okay? Never give up. And these are cliches, but they're all true. If someone knocks you down, get up, and you'll be better for it. Just keep going. Always remember that. Remember that every moment counts and that if you fail, it's because you fail to recognize that every moment counts. God, I love it. Marty, thank you for welcoming me into your home. Pleasure to have you. Into your worldview. I hope it went well.

Yeah. No, beautiful. Thank you very much. My pleasure. Introducing me to your wife. That's the best part. Yeah, it's awesome. All right, so where can people find you?

The best place to find me is obviously I'm on Facebook. The thing that the Instagram page at Marty Callner, M-A-R-T-Y-C-A-L-L-N-E-R. We don't really court followers. We have about 5,000, but they're all organic. And you're going to find a complete story of my career and what's going on in the moment. You know, that's the best way to find me. You know, I'm not sure I'm going to get my telephone number out. But please do not.

I won't. I promise. You know, you might be surprised about this, Marty. So we've got thousands and thousands and thousands of people support on our tribe, as we call it, our Finding Mastery tribe. And it's a free service. It's a free community. It's a free community. It's on the back of Facebook, if you will. And thousands of people supporting and challenging each other on their unique journey, their unique adventure, I should say. That's beautiful. How do I find that?

Yeah. Oh, yeah. We'll get you- Will you send it to me? We'll get you connected in there. It's amazing. I'd love to be. I'd love to. Yeah. It is an amazing community. And we'd love to, you know, amplify everything you're doing inside of that. Great. Oh, that's great. That's great.

That'd be great. Beautiful. Thank you. My pleasure. All right. Thank you so much for diving into another episode of Finding Mastery with us. Our team loves creating this podcast and sharing these conversations with you. We really appreciate you being part of this community. And if you're enjoying the show, the easiest no-cost way to support is to hit the subscribe or follow button wherever you're listening.

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