Finding Mastery with Dr. Michael Gervais - Michael Gervais: Finding Mastery

Episode Date: November 20, 2015

As the fable goes — there are three paths for each us, to become: The Old Fool: the person who chased external rewards and pleasures. The Bitter Old Fool: the person who chased external rewards, but didn’t get enough. The Wise: the person who searched for insight and wisdom. Likewise, the path of mastery captures deep understanding and insight -- it's not a path that is laying a bet now, by investing in a craft, for payment or recognition at some later time. The spoils of victory might just happen, but the orientation of the intent is paramount. Today we are becoming overwhelmed with the need for instant reward, immediate verification that we are significant -- as a misguided attempt to satiate our thirst for meaning and belonging -- rather, we are propelling ourselves toward an emptiness that can only be filled by temporary pleasures. Our need to belong, to understand, to explore, to connect to others and the world around us, to know safety and to know risk, to express and create are foundational to the human experience. Mastery is a journey — It's a curious and wonderful trail -- that has few, if any, guides. It's much more than the pursuit of expert performance. It's far deeper than high performance and the achievement of success. If Mastery is a path, let's learn from as many voices as we can. The best in the world, from worlds who happen to have camera's pointed at them -- AND -- from the worlds in which no camera is present -- either by design -- or because culturally we might have forgotten to be curious about their path and insights. Simple Joys. Mike_________________Subscribe to our Youtube Channel for more powerful conversations at the intersection of high performance, leadership, and meaning: https://www.youtube.com/c/FindingMasteryGet exclusive discounts and support our amazing sponsors! Go to: https://findingmastery.com/sponsors/Subscribe to the Finding Mastery newsletter for weekly high performance insights: https://www.findingmastery.com/newsletter Download Dr. Mike's Morning Mindset Routine! https://www.findingmastery.com/morningmindsetFollow us on Instagram, LinkedIn, and X.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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stay present and engaged with my thinking and writing. If you wanna slow down, if you wanna work smarter, I highly encourage you to check them out. Visit remarkable.com to learn more and grab your paper pro today. Hi everyone. Welcome back or welcome to the Finding Mastery podcast. I am Michael Gervais. And today, in lieu of conversations that we've been so fortunate to have with people that are of my head and just share some of the learnings that I've been trying to make sense of so far to date. So first off, I think I just want to come back to the title. The title is Finding Mastery,

which by the simplicity of the title, you know, these conversations, if you will, mastery is a journey. And I'm becoming more and more clear of that. And at one point, I had a sense of that, but I'm becoming more and more attuned to the path and the journey part of it. And hopefully this is a journey and a path

that we're going to be able to do together. And it's curious and it's wonderful. It's a wonderful trail. And I think it has few if any guides it's much more than a pursuit of expert performance it's it's just far deeper than that it's far deeper than high performance and the achievement of success the journey here is it's not reserved for those who are number one number one best

in the world, the Leonardo da Vinci's of modern time. We'll learn from the best in class through these conversations. And the conversations hopefully will also illuminate the counterintuitive and the not known voices that are working to stay connected to this path. And it's a path not reserved for many. As we'll come to appreciate and understand, I hope, there's so many trappings along the way. The process of exploring a deep understanding. And it's a deep understanding of the expression of the understandings that require risk,

require vulnerability, require strength and commitment and deep awareness. The distractions that come with it are just riddled with the need for recognition or criticism, the having and not having that people go through and the trying to fit in or ascribing to social norms and both the internal obstacles and the external setbacks you know there's a trapping of knowing as well and it's like as soon as people i'm not excluding me from this as soon as we acquire knowing we tend to change and think that we have it covered, which is just the first mark and trap. It's the furthest thing that I think that anyone on these conversations

has shared with us. There's also trappings of being, quote-unquote, an expert, and there's the trappings of success and achievement. And each of these will test the commitment to the path. And so if mastery is a path, let's learn from as many voices as we can. I mean, the best in the world from those who just happen to have cameras pointed at them, that doesn't mean that they're the only teachers. They just happen to be observed by many.

Let's also see if we can learn from people in the worlds which no camera is present. And that might be either by design or because culturally we might have forgotten to be curious about their path and their insights so the folks that we're going to be hopefully spending time with and learning from will have both cameras on them and some that don't and some might be early in their path and some might be very far along the path and that's actually what excites me most about what we're doing here is spending time to learn to understand to be curious and it's like this is hopefully a sharpening of the sword but also something that energizes us to to change and impact our lives

and more importantly the lives of people around us. Okay. So, I think the idea is let's see if we can learn from those who have a deep regard for the mystery and the wonderment of life and who are deeply curious about what it means to explore their potential or the commitment they have to explore the potential of others. And the potential here is the potential we hold within ourselves and possibly more importantly, the potential that we hold between us. And so here's just a statement. Our capacity as people, it's limited. It's limited by thought and fatigue.

But that capacity doesn't have to be so. In our modern times, we're moving at such a fast pace and we're on such a clip to be experts and to do it all, if you will. There's nothing wrong with doing it all, but the fatigue that we have is noticeable. And I believe our capacity as humans, it's limited by our ability to think big and think clearly and to be present. And we're also obviously burdened by the fatigue that we're bombarded with stress and we're bombarded with what there's nothing wrong with stress, but we're bombarded with it in such a way that we're not recovering properly mentally, physically, spiritually, you know, finding the time to rest and to deeply recover. And so it's just like as a species of people, we have far greater potential than we're expressing.

And, you know, we're walking around half alive, focusing on being busy and being relevant rather than focusing on being efficient and being purposeful or having optimal ways to leverage our internal resources, that internal capacity that we can't even begin to understand yet. The greatest scientists in the world and the greatest theologians and the greatest philosophers and political thinkers, we haven't been able to capture any of us, the capacity of our internal resources. And certainly we haven't tapped fully

into our external connections and the connectivity that comes when we're deeply attuned to ourselves and to people and to nature. So the capacity that we're expressing so far, there's so much, there's so much further to go. It's a bit overwhelming, but it's also, I don't know, I'm overwhelmed by it and also excited by it. It's like holding both of those at the same time, I think is really important. I think it's this fear of not being good enough. It keeps showing up, not just with these conversations, but over the past 20 years that I've been in this space, the fear of not being good enough, the fear of being kicked out, of not being relevant, seems to be one of modern times' most insidious marauders of potential. And as adults, we must face down this fear in our own lives with the hopes that we can leave a positive imprint on the generations to come. And if we're going to live a life that has meaning and where we're getting after it,

so to speak, we're going to bump into places and thoughts and experiences where fear is healthy. But if we can't face it down or if we get ahead of ourselves and become overwhelmed by the fear of mistakes or not being good enough or not going forward or not being accepted then we'll forever stay small and it's that smallness at least in my life that feeling of being small is such a burden and is that the right word it's such a no it's just flat out painful that that's the mass i think is a massive governor for people to be able to push all in and to go for it all right so you know it's this artistic expression about mastery here and i it seems to me that that's the highest form of intellectual and physical and spiritual skill.

It's that ability to artistic all of that intellectual, physical, and spiritual stuff within us. And if mastery is a path, then it's the expression of mastery that is first introduced by thoughts and ideas. That's where it begins of, hopefully, which eventually can be artistically expressed, whatever the craft might be. So there's two parts here. There's the thing that we do, there's the ideas that we have that precede the thing that we do, and there's the path that we go on to illuminate the thoughts and the ideas and so that we can have a refinement of that expression through whatever skill it is or craft that we're spending our time in or with.

So it's not lost on those, I think, that who consistently excel, that they've worked out a process that moves them closer to mastery. And that process might not be masterful, but they've got some ideas around how to create habits and sustainable ways of thinking that are robust. And I would imagine that they would agree that there is no one way towards mastery. And at the same time, there are a set of principles that are cutting across any domain of artistic intent. So why does this matter? Why is this relevant? Well, I'm not exactly sure, but maybe I can answer why is this relevant to me or why does it matter to me? It's the path that captures deep understanding and insight. And that's one of the pillars of living a life that we're aware, that we're working for

and searching for a deep understanding, wisdom, if you will. And it's not a path that's laying a bet now by investing in whatever craft that we're interested in for some sort of payment

of recognition later. That's not what this is. I mean, that might happen, but the orientation of the intent is foundational, meaning that it's the search and the relentless search and the curiosity and the dedication to understanding that comes first. And then over time, the other stuff that takes place with it, will eventually become or if not are for you now may as well distractions so today we're becoming just overwhelmed with the need for instant reward i i think that all of us would nod our heads to that that it's something that

we're concerned about for the next generation and we're also caught up in it and it's that immediate verification that we're significant that is deceptively deceptively um potent and i i think it's a misguided attempt to satiate our thirst for meaning and belonging rather you know what we're doing is we're propelling ourselves toward an emptiness that can only be filled by temporary pleasures which in and of itself might be the biggest trap to humanity that we can that we can you know begin to pursue and it's not it's not by our fault it's it's when we find and are in immediate pleasure our our brain, our DNA is designed to reward us. And it rewards us with neurochemistry and dopamine and serotonin and all that good stuff inside of us that is so wonderful that searching for that makes clear sense.

But there's traps. And so, again, this path of mastery, it's not easy. It's not reserved. It's not captured by many because this elixir of dopamine and serotonin and chasing the high of recognition and all that comes with that,

it's tough. And I think the people that we're having conversations with are nodding their heads at the same time saying yeah it is tough but you know there's this other stuff on the other side which is this deeper appreciation and the insights and the wisdoms and to be able to move and share that sometimes on command but sometimes having to go and really get connected to be able to express that is so much more rewarding because of the sustainability of those insights and wisdoms that cut across moments.

And so this path is not reserved for the Leonardo da Vinci's or Bob Dylan or Bob Marley or Picasso or Matisse or Thomas Aquinas. These are all people that have obviously been influenced. William James, one of the first movers in psychology that grabbed the attention of what could be rather than what is broken. Or John Stuart Mill, the philosophers, or Sun Tzu, the great philosophers and thinkers and strategists. Or even Mark Twain, who really just did it so differently. Mastery is not reserved for just them.

It's available for all of us. It's a path that is committed to searching. And it's that searching for both the creative tension and the harmony between thoughts and action, the harmony between awareness and movement and the ability to have the inner strength and to be able to stand with conviction in the present moment, independent of challenge or pain or love, fear or disappointment or anticipation of what could be, and excitement, even to have conviction in the face of excitement, be able to stay present and true it doesn't mean that we don't enjoy things but it's the search to deeply understand and deeply connect

with ourselves others nature all through the masterful expression of whatever craft that we're called for and it's through the relationships that would become and it's the becoming it's that becoming that that we become. And it's the becoming. It's that becoming that is the nature of being human. Yeah. Sorry, I feel like I got on a soapbox. I get so excited thinking about what it is that we're pursuing here. I don't know. The reward is the path. And it's also the expression of the insight.

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That's David, D-A-V-I-D, protein, P-R-O-T-E-I-N.com slash findingmastery. So where are we now? Mastery's captured. It's just a deep commitment to a path of learning and not to oversimplify it but it's that deep commitment it's a journey to explore truth and artistic expressions both of craft and self and those expressions again begin with with ideas and then they eventually take form or shape whether it's language or it's something physical that we can touch.

This path is not a new concept. It's steeped in ancient traditions and wisdoms and it's the expression of mastery that captivates us today. But that's different than high performance. It's often sought after, but it might be misconstrued with moments of peak performance where we see somebody do something amazing. It's the path, this path that we're like talking about or trying to get our arms around. It's so much deeper than that. It's the path of flat out just growth in which particular skills

are revealed with seemingly effortless expression. But there's so much that goes underneath and behind and before that seemingly effortless expression and the reward of of being able to do what's in your heart mind or you know what's in your dna and get it out on a regular basis effortlessly slow so slow sometimes. Sometimes it feels slow, which is this wonderful, wonderful way of connecting when we're deeply connected. I don't know. What else is this?

It's the expression of mastery, which is different than the path, right? It's the two parts. It's met with the ability for a person or even a group of people to be on time and to be fully present that's when it's revealed and when a person is able to stitch together moments that's when they're able to reveal glimpses of their potential and if we think about that word potential it can be double-edged and sometimes people that have high potential that becomes crippling to them but if we think about potential in more aspirational way that it's a glimpse of what we have within us and wherever

you orientate how we have become to have that or to be able to tap into it. If you have a spiritual frame, then maybe it's this glimpse of what you were made for. And let me be even more kind of clear about this, is that the thing that the people in these conversations that we're able to have, whether it's sports or arts or music, whatever it might be, or business, that thing is less important than the experience that accompanies the thing. So the pursuit is only setting us up to experience something. And the experience, that full engagement in the activity is what this is really about. And then so if we transcend this idea of mastery of craft,

it seems to me that what would take place is that we would become masterful in life. And that doesn't mean we're the master. It means that we become able to experience that, I'm losing my words with this, we're able to experience the experience, which doesn't make any sense, does it? Okay, we're able to be fully embodied and connected to the experience that naturally accompanied the thing that we were pursuing to deeply understand.

That's it. So then at some transcended level, we don't need the thing to be okay, to be on the path of mastery. We can actually connect deeply and embody the experience that that activity once led us to naturally feel. And I think that this is where many people will say, you know, what do you want to do with your life?

And a natural question would be, well, what did you want to do when you were a kid? I don't think that that's the right question. I think that that question is hinting toward what are the times when you felt most alive? And then can you find something in your life now that also brings you that natural aliveness? And then as you stay on that path, that aliveness becomes challenged because when we are learning and growing, that aliveness has a different tone to it. And then when we get tested, there's a different tone to it as well. And sometimes in that test, we stand present.

Sometimes we get too big and sometimes we get too small. So it's, again, it's not the craft that's essential. It's the understanding that precedes the expression of the craft. Oh boy. So we're getting deep on it okay um and i just want to put a thought in here is that i deeply appreciate the questions that come on all forms of social media about you know the things that are being taken away the ideas and the practices and the and the psychological frameworks that people are are people are reposting

in all the really fun ways. So, okay, so if we get too deep with it, apologies, but I too am trying to understand how to articulate where we are. And the path of mastery, it's not well understood. You know, it's the, it is a path and it is the ability to be on time in the path

on the path with deep challenges along the way and that deep curiosity to to continue to grow it's the person who's able to again stitch those moments together and when they're able to express their craft in environments that at one time were disruptive to their command of the mental or emotional or technical skills of the craft, that's how we mark the path of mastery. And mastery is often recognized by others, maybe more so often than the person pursuing it. It's kind of like when you ask somebody who's done something extraordinary to be able to do the thing that they've done so oftentimes i think mastery is recognized by others and it's that phrase that this phrase that captures it you know game recognizes game and in this idea it would be masters of craft recognize others and it's it's it's that phrase that honors those who have touch mastery or those who are pursuing it and they're able to spot it when they see it and it's not uncommon for someone outside

of a person's primary craft to capture the gaze of somebody and say they've got it they're on that path and what they what those folks look like to to the rest of us is that i don't know they're just different they're just different which they are because the path of mastery is rare and again it's not reserved it's not it's not supposed to be reserved for just the people that are the number one best in the world of all time it's available for all of us and that's what this come these conversations hopefully are going are going to have a bit of a decoding to align how do they think how do they see the world how do they understand themselves what are the mental skills they practice you know what are the strategies and practices

that allow them to have sustainability on the path because we're all tested we're tested every day not just game day if you're in sport or not just when a piece of art is revealed we're tested every day yeah it's the demonstration of that mastery that causes or can cause a shift in the collective understanding of what's possible for us. And that's the part that hopefully gets our hairs to stand up a bit. When we watch somebody who's masterful and they've done something that nobody else has done,

it forces us to swallow that experience and say one of two things to ourselves. That person's amazing. They're nothing like me. Or if that person can do that i wonder what i could do and it's that latter part of it that hopefully we're getting more connected to that energizes the ability for us to take ideas inspired meaning in spirit to the latin and greek origin to breathe life into a way of doing and being you know it's this path that involves a deep commitment to be able to test boundaries

self and self boundaries and maybe boundaries of the human experience and to risk and to explore you know what has yet to be understood. And that by definition, the exploring of what has yet to be understood is the commitment to growth, which as we're talking about, the learning required to be open to grow is where we are on this path. And so I think there's been a host of characteristics

so far that we can pay attention to. There's a love of learning that people have talked about. And they're okay being uncomfortable because of the craving to understand and grow. And it's like, you know, it's noticeable how much they love to learn. And there's a love of practice as well. It's not like they're forced to practice.

It's that they are so connected to the feelings that come with it. They are relentless. And, you know, you've heard me talk about to practice it's that they are so connected to the feelings that come with it they they are relentless and you know you've heard me talk about no one has to pay me to do the thing i do i love it i absolutely love it and the preparing for it is is is the living of it and when i'm fortunate enough to work with athletes and teams and musicians and performers and entrepreneurs, that's almost like that unfolding, the unpredictable and unfolding moment is where the life happens. And the preparation for that life to unfold in that very electric way is equally as rewarding. So there's also a love of being coached, but it's not always by formal instruction.

There's a love of being coached by others, but sometimes by nature. And Mother Nature, I think, is one of the most powerful teachers that we have. And there's a deep appreciation for the nature of change, because that's what Mother Nature got spot on. There's a deep understanding of the craft that they've spent time to deeply understand, and there's a deep regard for the volume and the vast variance of which is completely still unknown. So that's just that regard is humbling in and of itself and oftentimes those who are extremely talented they find it difficult to stay the path because it came so easy and

it's that straining and striving and the letting go it's that it's that combination of the the dark and the light that that those who it naturally came to can be um can be misguided and those who orientate their life to avoid failure or looking bad or those who cannot tolerate the uncomfortableness of letting go of what got them there or what they thought was true or think is true. And those that can't tolerate making mistakes, it's hard. It's really hard because it's that letting go that's required to grow. So they too also,

I think it's hard to stay on the course. And people that are on the path, it seems as though that they tend not to look for quick relief and they're not interested in quick fixes, although sometimes that's really wonderful. It looks like that they're searching for truth and efficiency and deep understanding.

So what do we do with all this? I'm not exactly sure, but my hope is that at some level, we just let this wash over us and you just let it just completely wash over you. And then while we're in the conversations that we're just listening deeply. And maybe this is training for when we can listen deeply in other parts of our life. But we can also find confirmations in what you're doing that is aligned and different to those that are that we're in these conversations with and hopefully my hope hopefully you'll become energized by the insights that they have and the practices and and the the way that they've organized their life

and i know that's it's been a wonderful gift that I've come to deeply appreciate from people who have allowed me to be part of their journey and the courage it takes to do so. And from that energized, being energized from that energy, the hope is to see if we can take some actions to do things differently, to become more connected to what matters most. Those you love and the activities that have captured your imagination. And that we can do differently with those and take actions that are just a bit more precise, both in idea and thought and language, and that we can also tolerate the messiness of not getting it just right. But hopefully we'll be able to be more connected to what matters most and i think the the last idea here is here is like what do we do with this is hopefully we just become curious and be very curious above all and i think it would be a

mistake for us to follow the footsteps of those who we're listening to that are on the path of mastery, but rather to work towards understanding what they've been searching for. All right. Thank you so much for diving into another episode of Finding Mastery with us. Our team loves creating this podcast and sharing these conversations with you. We really appreciate you being part of this community. And if you're enjoying the show, the easiest no-cost way to support is to hit the subscribe or follow button wherever you're listening. Also, if you haven't already, please consider dropping us a review on Apple or Spotify. We are incredibly grateful for the support and feedback. If you're

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