Finding Mastery with Dr. Michael Gervais - Mindful Movement: How Mobility Work Can Transform Your Life | Scott Perkins

Episode Date: June 5, 2024

Movement—however you do it—is an essential part of being human. And I believe being able to move well, for as long as possible, is a staple of living “the good life.”That’s why I am excited to introduce a guest today who is committed to helping people do just that – Scott Perkins. Scott is the Founder & CEO of pliability – a company that is helping people move better ________ through their yin yoga inspired mobility training. However, Scott was not always known as the “fitness guy” – in fact, far from it. In this conversation, we explore his journey from taking college classes at age 12 to starting his first business at 18 to acquiring what is now pliability by the age of 25. However, for the first six years at its helm, Scott was 60 pounds overweight and he was sacrificing his health for what he thought was “success.”Then… he made a change.In this conversation, you’ll hear from a person who was grinding, burnt out, overwhelmed, but eventually found a better way – and now, Scott is on a mission to share that way with others. I love what Scott and the team at pliability are building – it’s an incredibly important tool that can help a lot of people enable movement for better health and longevity (both physical and mental). And – I can’t wait for you to hear the story of a founder whose windy path eventually led him to working from a place of meaning and purpose._________________Subscribe to our Youtube Channel for more powerful conversations at the intersection of high performance, leadership, and meaning: https://www.youtube.com/c/FindingMasteryGet exclusive discounts and support our amazing sponsors! Go to: https://findingmastery.com/sponsors/Subscribe to the Finding Mastery newsletter for weekly high performance insights: https://www.findingmastery.com/newsletter Download Dr. Mike's Morning Mindset Routine! https://www.findingmastery.com/morningmindsetFollow us on Instagram, LinkedIn, and X.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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It's grandma that wants to be able to pick up her grandkids at 65. It's the mom that wants to make sure she can run the stroller around the block. The concept of movement is intrinsic to just being human. What we look to do is enable that. Welcome back or welcome to the Finding Mastery podcast. I am your host, Dr. Michael Gervais, by trade and training a high-performance psychologist. No matter how you move your body, movement is an essential part of being human. And being able to move well for as long as possible,

I believe, is a staple of living the good life. And that's why I'm excited to introduce a guest today who is committed to helping people do just that, Scott Perkins. Scott is the founder and CEO of Pliability, a company that is helping people move better through their yin yoga-inspired mobility training. You'll hear in this conversation how much time I spend daily on mobility training. That's one of the reasons I wanted to have a conversation with Scott.

The deeper reason I wanted to have this conversation is because he's one of those folks who look for a solution out in the world. He didn't find it. He didn't find one that he thought was ideal, at least. And then he went ahead and built it. And it makes perfect sense why he took that step. His path is different. He's got a different approach to life. At age 12, he was taking college classes to start his first business at age 18 and acquiring Pliability, the company we're going to talk about, by the age of 25. However, for the first six years at its helm, Scott was 60 pounds overweight and sacrificing

his health for what he thought was success. That's when he made a change. In this conversation, you'll hear from a person who was grinding, who was getting after it, not recovering, who was burnt out and overwhelmed. He found a better way. And now he's on a mission to share it with others. I love what Scott and the team at Pliability are building.

And I can't wait for you to hear the story of a founder whose windy path eventually led him to working from a place of meaning and purpose. So with that, let's jump right into this week's conversation with Scott Perkins. Scott, welcome to the Mastery Lab. Thanks for having me. I'm so stoked you're here. Like what you're doing is really amazing. Like it's so well timed. And before we get into the mechanics

of it, let me just start properly. Like, how are you? I'm doing well. Doing well. It was a good trip out. Glad to be here in LA. Yeah. And when you say you're doing well, what, what does that mean for you? Just overall? I mean, life is great. Um, business is on a good trajectory. Life's on a good trajectory. Feeling really settled where I'm at in New York. Just finally feel like this year is coming together. Okay. There was an exhale when you said that. Yeah, for sure. So you've been grinding for a long time.

Yeah, definitely. And it feels like some pieces have dropped into place where the momentum feels a little bit more seamless. Absolutely. I think one of my biggest lessons is just really trusting a team and growing a team. And we spent years running so lean that there's a lot on my shoulders and I had trouble letting go. And then when I finally learned to let go a little bit, life got incrementally easier and easier and just more fulfilling and started enjoying what I was doing more. And, uh, you know, all that's really coming together this year. You say that to a performance

psychologist and you know, that I'm going to pull on that thread. Okay. So let's get to that in due time. But, um, and as I say that, what happens for you in this moment, what happens for you when I say, Oh, control. Okay. We're going to come back to that. Do you go, Oh, good happens for you? In this moment, what happens for you when I say, oh, control. Okay, we're going to come back to that. Do you go, oh, good. Or do you go, oh. Oh, no, not scared of it all. I think I've been on the road so many different ways that, you know, I enjoy exploring that because for me, it was a big learning experience.

That's cool. So part of your framework is to explore. Of course. Not to defend and protect. Not usually. Not usually. That's cool. So part of your framework is to explore. Of course. Not to defend and protect. Not usually. Probably early on. I definitely took more of that, you know, kind of defensive model, you know, protect the home front, really kind of build kind of stable system. But now I'm much more open to just, you know, really evolving through learning. Everything is about just figuring out

how it happens, why it happens and continuously adapting around it. Okay. And so when you were in a defensive posture for some part of your life, was that an aggressive posture or was it a, um, um, kind of back of your heel posture? I think probably started as an aggressive posture. I think, you know, when I started out in business, I was very young and there, you constantly felt like you had to prove something. You weren't taken seriously in a lot of ways. Oh boy, here we go.

I love where you're taking this. Okay. There was, you know, it took a lot of very, you know, a lot of forward pressure, a lot of resilience to, you know, basically be told no nine out of 10 times just because you don't have the experience or, you know, you're not good enough or they don't, you know, age is just a factor. Because you were young. A lot of it was because I was young when I was started. Then I was lucky enough to be able to parlay that into a strength. So I had some mentors and some early clients effectively give me that shot. And these clients, based on their reputation, were able to help me build mine.

Isn't that amazing? It really taught me the meaning of mentorship or the meaning of just investing in someone else. And something I've really carried forward to our team and what I do today is like initiative is everything. What is it their initiative? Yeah. So like in this case, it was my initiative being recognized by a potential client and then willing to support me in that. Now I see it kind of as a mission when someone is showing initiative, whether it's on the team or whether it's, you know, in life or, you know, as long as they're willing to put the effort into it, you can build skill. You can learn anything, but like that drive to get it done is kind of the core premise of moving the needle. So.

All right. So let's maybe go back up a couple levels and talk about what you're building. How do you describe what it is that you are building? Like the fullness of your business? So, Pliability, I mean, we describe it as the human movement brand, which is very broad, but it's intrinsic to what we do as humans. So, coming into the health and wellness space, I looked around and you have a lot of fitness apps, you have a lot of devices, you have a lot of fitness apps, you have a lot of devices,

you have a lot of workout tools, you have all these things. But at the core of all of it, you have to be able to move as a human, you have to be able to pick things up, you have to be able to bend down, you have to actually be able to move your body and move it well. And something that's really instilled in me is, it's not always just for athletic performance. It's grandma that wants to be able to pick up her grandkids at 65. It's the mom that wants to make sure she can run the stroller around the block. You know, the concept of movement

is intrinsic to just being human. And what we look to do is enable that. Finding Mastery is brought to you by LinkedIn Sales Solutions. In any high-performing environment that I've been part of, from elite teams to executive boardrooms, one thing holds true. Meaningful relationships are at the center of sustained success.

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Finding Mastery is brought to you by David Protein. I'm pretty intentional about what I eat, and the majority of my nutrition comes from whole foods. And when I'm traveling or in between meals on a demanding day, certainly, I need something quick that will support the way that I feel and think and perform. And that's why I've been leaning on David Protein Bars. And so has the team here at Finding Mastery. In fact, our GM, Stuart, he loves them so much. I just want to kind of quickly put them on the spot. Stuart, I know you're listening. I think you might be the reason that we're running out of these bars so much. I just want to kind of quickly put them on the spot. Stuart, I know you're listening.

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is also their chief science officer. So I know they've done their due diligence in that category. My favorite flavor right now is the chocolate chip cookie dough. And a few of our teammates here at Finding Mastery have been loving the fudge brownie and peanut butter. I know, Stuart, you're still listening here. So getting enough protein matters. And that can't be understated, not just for strength, but for energy and focus, recovery, for longevity. And I love that David is making that easier. So if you're trying to hit your daily protein goals

with something seamless, I'd love for you to go check them out. Get a free variety pack, a $25 value, and 10% off for life when you head to davidprotein.com slash findingmastery. That's David, D-A-V-I-D, protein, P-R-O-T-E-I-N.com slash finding mastery. In my commitment to fitness and overall health, early days was like strength and a little bit of,

you know, speed agility, quickness stuff. And, and then as I've gotten older, strength is still a base for me to invest in as like a, a first mover. I'm spending, I don't know, let's say I'm going to work out for an hour. I'm spending, it feels like 35 minutes on mobility. Like working, like getting my body into a place that's ready. It's amazing. And then a bunch of that work is mobility.

So when I saw what you were doing, I was like, I love it. Like, I really love what you're doing, I was like, I love it. Like, I really love what you're doing. I want to introduce it to folks. And the reason it was so important to me is because I had strength there, but I couldn't access it because of my mobility, because I'm sitting more than I ever have. Of course, we all are. Yeah. And so can you talk about like, why this was important for you to build this business? Because it feels like you're well-timed. So what was going on in your life?

And I don't know where you're going to take this, but like why? I mean, I can't take full credit. This was a business that I invested in and ended up acquiring. I originally was a tech guy, built websites and apps and just various things on the tech side. How old were you at that time? I started at, I was installing like Wi-Fi systems at 15, started my first business at 18. You were installing Wi-Fi systems? Is that what you said? Yeah. So this was when, it's hard to remember a time when you couldn't set up wifi yourself,

but wifi actually used to be kind of a complex install, um, you know, very early on and, uh, started my first business at 18 that was building websites for cake shops and lawyers and like single page web one type of stuff, simple stuff. Um, so that agent has a small shop of you and like three people or just you? Literally just me. Yeah. It was just me for the first year and a half. And then I partnered with one of my competitors.

Actually, we merged, created a digital agency. A digital agency grew to service clients in about 19 states. How'd you know how to do that deal? Actually, pretty funny story. So my partner in that business, I was always more talented with the business side of things, the sales. I could make things look good. I could go to a chamber of commerce and do like a really cool presentation, right? There was this guy that design work was absolutely beautiful. Like his eye for detail was phenomenal and then he

was able to back it with obviously a coding and a genius in coding so i there's a couple contracts that i lost to him and i was kind of like all right what's going on here so i email and i'm just like hey can we meet at starbucks literally just come meet at Starbucks. Let's chat. Little did I know that he shows up. He's three years younger than me at the time. So I was 21. He was 18. Show up at Starbucks and we start going over things and we just kind of hit off as like a yin and yang scenario.

And like, you take care of the business. I'll make sure things are coded well and designed well. And within an eight day period, we had signed the LLC papers for the new agency okay so this like fell into place very much so it was organic both had nothing to lose 50 50 50 50 tough deal tough deal to run like you know would you would you do a 50 50 deal again um I have and have learned my lessons yeah it's It's a tough one. It's, it's certainly, you know, I think. Can you tell a story why like that was tough? Can you give an example?

So in the case of, uh, in the case of the digital agency business, I mean, it actually worked out wonderful. The first business. Yeah. First business, Daniel and I had a great relationship. Um, we built this agency. I think he had a personality that just, you know, meshed with mine and it worked, you know, up to a point. He ended up outgrowing the business and

moved on. And then what happened there? So he, the estimated version of this story is he's a Bitcoin multimillionmillionaire daniel was buying bitcoin oh fun he tried to get me to buy bitcoin you know when it was you know 800 900 you know and oh oh yeah okay so he was on it i didn't take him i'm going a different direction and when i when i said like what happened there how did you transfer the shares? How did, was it, did he just walk away? And like, look. Effectively, yeah, it was a buyout. A buyout.

You bought him out. Correct. Relationships power the whole thing. Of course. Your relationship with yourself, your relationships with others, it powers just about everything. I don't know how to think outside of that framing, even your relationship with experience. Absolutely. So, all right, we're going to get to relationships with your body in a minute through what you're

doing, but then, so let's follow this forward. So first business was great until it wasn't. Second business was. There's been various, but the general trajectory was the digital agency acquired Romwod or what was... So that digital agency that you transformed. Okay. And Romwod was a client. Yes.

Romwod was a client of the agency. We had built the original partners of Romwod. We had built another yoga business as a digital agency. So they came to us to build Romwod, which is the precursor to pliability today okay so there they were your client yep and you said oh we could scale this and so is pliability still with that same structure with the original founders of say it again mo moad romwod yeah oh i know it's a it's a tough name that we've yeah the reason there's a reason why we rebranded. Yeah. What did ROM, I read it at some point. What did it stand for?

Range of motion, workout of the day. Longest acronym. There's something very explicit when you say it out like, oh, I know what I'm getting. I'm getting a mobility exercise daily. In the CrossFit space that we operated in, it made sense to that world. Yeah. Like CrossFitters use acronyms for everything. Oh, they do. Range of motion, workout of the day.

Right. AMRAP is as many rounds as possible. There's all sorts of acronyms in the CrossFit world. So for that group of people, the name worked. Do you know how to tell if someone is a crossfitter i i mean in my mind i i could think of 50 different ways but i'm curious to what yours is they'll just tell you yeah there's one of them for sure that's a bad joke but their traps are either up to their ears and you can tell when they walk in mine is mine is always there's a there's like a crossfit uniform

there's a shoes there's right their shoes their shorts their shirts very tight shorts yep you can yeah i can always tell in a training setting who like has done crossfit in the past or is a crossfit even if i go into an equinox or wherever i can normally pick out the crossfitter and then and then if you look at their phone it's like in their in their fast five friends or whatever like that first page is there's usually a chiro or a pt yes there's a lot of like rehab stuff going on as i've personally learned that's what crossfit will do yeah so you don't look like a crossfitter and that doesn't mean you're not but you know so are is that your training methodology crossfit it's very hybrid nowadays

so you know working in the crossfit space, you kind of get adopted into that methodology. Um, for years, I unfortunately ignored my health and wellness. Um, prior to four years, four and a half years ago, I was 65 pounds heavier, 60 pounds heavier, um, on your frame. Yep. 60 pounds. Yeah. I got up to about 208, 209. How tall are you? 5'11". So how'd you do that? Well, I was just, it was just terribly taking care of myself. Oh, so this was not muscle? No.

Oh, no. This was not 60 pounds of fitness. No, this was 60 pounds of pure unfitness. So it was, yeah, I was not in great shape in great shape. Uh, morbidly obese. Yeah. 20, 2018, 2019. Um, I hit, Oh my, hold on. I'm going to get the time right. When did you buy, when did you become managing director of the company? 2015, 2015. Yep. You were out of shape. Okay. And, um, so you're grinding, you're building the business and you're getting more unhealthy. Yeah. I just, I wasn't paying attention to the health and wellness. And so you're grinding, you're building the business and you're getting more unhealthy.

Yeah. I just, I wasn't paying attention to the health and wellness. And I think there was almost a, not a resistance to it, but almost like an embarrassment about it. Like being a, an owner of a fitness company that was unfit, there was a constant push and pull to like how to resolve this and where to put my time and where to put my effort. And ultimately 2018 2019 i hit you know complete adrenal fatigue resting heart rate was out of control just you know complete like almost shut down periods where you know it was difficult to to manage so was it was it you okay does obesity run in your family it does my dad was diabetic um different things going on but i

mean this was purely just i would wake up in the morning drink as many coffees as i could during the day didn't eat and then i would eat 4 000 calories at night and it was i would literally crash so hard from that meal that i would wake up at 2 a.m be like where am i oh yeah it was a it was just a gnarly cycle of not taking care of myself. Yeah. Okay. And where's that come from? Like why, why not value you? I think I just, I didn't have the, the understanding of nutrition and health and wellness from my family. I don't buy it. I don't buy it. No, no. What was your assumption? You know, I don't know yet, but I just don't buy that reflexively i didn't know that an apple versus an apple pie that the apple pie was the bad decision or the unhealthy yeah i mean you

are you are right to you are right to an extent i think it was a i mean obviously they're all decisions day to day that are made my focus was strictly on building the business and i now i understand you i was making a different choice the choice that i was valuing was something else was to build a business but that's not the real choice the choice the thing that was underneath building a business was i think for me it was probably you know i guess proving myself a little bit there you go okay so and i relate i understand you and i are speaking the same language which is okay i am tirelessly going to work and sacrifice my sense of vibrance and well-being for a hopped up caffeine insulin dump fatigue so that I can prop up in another way that I matter.

And, uh, I mean the, the context of that story. So it, it comes full circle. Um, I guess we're just going to share this with everybody, but six months after I acquired Rama, my dad passed. There you go. So trauma, you were close with your dad. I was. Yeah. Um, it's a complete accident. Uh, it was a, it was an incident at work, but, um, what happened? He was security guard at a bank and complete crazy accident. There was a, like a handicap sign. Effectively this lady pulls in, doesn't stop, hits the handicap sign, handicap sign, hit my dad.

They didn't have it like a bollarded or like a concrete barrier around the sign like they were supposed to so it just collapsed and hit him oh i'm so sorry to hear that so this was this was november of 2015 i still hear the grief in your voice sure yeah yeah it was a challenging time for the family. I had my nine-year-old sister passed in 2009. So she was special needs and, you know, she had a very short run. It was a lot of my parents. And then for my dad to pass in 2015, most of my grandparents passed in the period between that. So there was just, there was this four to six year period of a lot going on in the family and it was also the

period in which i was building and running a business oh i i this all makes thank you for being a leader here because what you're leading is you're saying look I was stuffing work and food to be able to numb the loss and the grief, the overwhelming loss and grief. One alone, but to have a, you know, within a timeframe, four, let's say, or maybe there's more, I don't know. And then, you know, I think we don't celebrate this part of grief enough, which is person one dies. And then let's say even 15 years later, person two dies. That oftentimes we don't do like a full resolve. You know, it's like we don't teach people

and we don't have a best practice on how to really work through grief. And so we stuff it. We drug practice on how to really work through grief. Absolutely. And so we stuff it. We drug it, drink it, work it. We do something to try to, okay, so you're nodding your head. And then when we get to the second grief and we're at that funeral, it's like a compound effect. Totally. You recognize that. It's like shampoo.

You wash once and you kind of get some of the dirt out. And then when you when you put your handful of more shampoo the second time, you really get it clean. Like you really get the lather. There's a lather effect that takes place. And so how did you manage that? I mean, I definitely felt like, you know, compounding challenges because on one hand, there was, you know, a great deal of grief and loss going on in that time. And on the other hand, I became responsible for my family, my mom, my sister. So you had another layer of stress, which is financial. Correct.

And now you're a managing partner. Like in some respects, you've got to get this thing right. Yeah. I've abandoned my body in pursuit of helping other people have better bodies. I've abandoned my health in pursuit of other people having better health. And I've got all this trauma that's sitting underneath. So, yeah. Yeah.

And I'm going all in because I've got to get the numbers right. And then you add the trifecta, the third stool, which is like, I'm not really sure who I am without external success. Yeah. I'm managing that now currently. So we're working on it, working on it day to day. But ultimately, that entire period, the two goals were just survive and create. I always describe it as creating stability, not wealth. So a lot of business owners that go into business, I think the ultimate goal is to drive growth and success and such. And my goal in building businesses was to create stability. It's what you needed. Finding Mastery is brought to you by Momentus.

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to FelixGray.com and use the code FINDINGMASTERY20 at checkout. Again, that's Felix Gray. You spell it F-E-L-I-X-G-R-A-Y.com and use the code FINDINGMASTERY20 at FelixGray.com for 20% off. It's what our teammates, our employee base needs as well. Yes. Right. We all want hope. We all want a compelling future. We all want something that we can think about as epic later. And the volatility of not knowing if a check is coming is really overwhelming. Absolutely.

So you're like, look, I need stability in my life emotionally. Physically. And financially. So your company rests on that first principle stability yep so in other words we're going to play the long game correct okay now how do you tie that with the actual application of mobility movement or pliability movement like is it the same thing now i'm asking you to put on the other hat, which is like the practitioner hat. Okay. The practitioner of mobility exercise. And I know that you're not,

you're not the scientist there. You're the entrepreneur, but of course you're going to have to know enough to be able to crosswalk this. Is mobility a sprint to get my body moving well or is it the long game that to invest in an overall structure that has range it's absolutely the long game and we now is that a science-based idea or your philosophy on it uh both so okay pliability is built on the practice of yin yoga which has been around for thousands of years um one of our listeners might not know what that means. So yin yoga, there's two primary types of yoga, vinyasa and yin. Vinyasa is the traditional workout yoga that you see in yoga studios or hot yoga studios and such.

It's what you would do as a form of training. Yin yoga is long, passive stretches. So effectively, you get into a position you hold it for two to three minutes what this is doing is it's elongating the fascia and basically opening up the joints and opening up the body to work on its long game as you put it it enables it to move it enables it to be comfortable It enables it to be comfortable with movement. I do not find most yin yoga sessions to be pleasant. It sounds like it's more pleasant. But sitting with a moment for my hip,

like it's after like, I don't know what it is for you, like 35, 40 seconds, somewhere in that range, there's an ache. So that's, we coach heavily. I mean, there's definitely like, you're pushing your your body past limits that it's not used to to sitting in right like not a lot of people sit in those poses for any other reason than than doing like pliability and working on a mobility practice um but the

ultimate goal is as you become more and more comfortable as your body adapts further and further to those positions you're creating increased range of motion you're creating increased athletic ability but i think one side that's we often find not mentioned is related enough as it's the mental and mindful practice to it come on so because you're you're taking time and you have to hold yourself just in that moment of stillness. You're holding a static position. You're not actively moving towards anything. It almost forces you to stop and breathe and think and just feel.

And it's something that we really feel needs to be a bigger part of people's lives is just taking that moment and being with yourself for yourself and focusing not only on the body, but also in the mind. You're speaking my language. Yeah, that's great. Okay. And so what are you guys doing there to enhance or increase reflection or awareness? So a lot of it is on auditory cues, different tones, different affirmations that we'll offer throughout the routine. Something that's constantly in research and development. I think long term, I'd love to speak with you about that and see what we can do better there. Oh, that's cool.

But it's a huge part of what we want to do going forward you know increasing more breathing practice increasing more mindfulness practice and just making it you know always focusing on the body but as you're focusing on the body you have the time and you should be taking the capacity to work on the mind as well i am so uninterested in mastery of craft alone so somebody that can let's just keep it in your lane, like has incredible range of motion, but they haven't used their craft to invest in mastery of self. So it's mastery of craft. It's mastery of self through mastery of craft.

Right. So the foundational is like, no, no, no, I need to try to work and work towards being on the path of mastery. The craft is not the end game. It is the insight. It's a journey. Yeah, right. Well, even so, it's not for just the demonstration or the ability to physically do something, whether it's on a canvas or on a yoga mat. It's so that that becomes the working laboratory

to really understand how your mind works. And then in a circular fashion, the mind actually unlocks further abilities. So yeah, I love how you're doing it. It's really good. And it's that, one, it's like getting started. There's how you're doing it. It's really good. And it's that one. It's like getting started. There's a whole mental part there. Yep.

And then once you get, oh, let's say your body is lubricated a little bit, like it's a little bit easier. And then at the end range, you know, like that 40 second hold or whatever it might be. It there's another moment to be like, oh, stay in it. Be kind to yourself too absolutely yeah it's it's definitely a mental game to to get through it and some of those holds i mean we have these routines on thursdays we've uh called warrior routines that can be up to 40 minutes and i think that those are definitely not for the for the faint of heart because it

takes you know a lot of just focus and mental discipline to keep with it. So in your platform, the app that you've built, talk about the difference between a journey for one. What is the journey that you hope one person goes on in your ecosystem? So the ultimate goal is just to get them through. Initially, it's to get them through the door and understand the benefit of how this feels. So one thing that I really got interested in within this business is our trial to conversion

rate is very high because you can feel it. It's something, if you can get someone to try it, they feel the effect. It's a, it's a, Oh, I feel good now. So I should continue doing this. And how much time do you think people need? We try to get people to do 15, 20 minutes. We find that most people are willing to dedicate five to 10. Our ultimate mission over the long term is to get people to understand the value and spend more time with themselves in mobility practice. Five to 10 minutes every day. Correct. Yeah.

And okay. So then, so the journey is to get them in. Yep. To experience it. Correct. Yeah. And okay. So then, so the journey is to get them in, to experience it. People go, oh, I feel like I can sit better. I can hold my posture better. I can breathe better. And because of that, I feel like life is a little easier. All true statements from a psychophysiology perspective. And so five to 10 minutes to start, and then what happens? So once we can get them working through a practice, we start trying to address specific issues. So for example, we have like a workforce series, which is if your lower back's tight, you're sitting in a chair all day, we've designed routines that specifically work on that issue. Or if you have tight hips,

you want to work on running. There's all sorts of different pathways you can go down that address your specific need or issue. So it increases like people's adherence to the platform because it's working on something that they've, they need and they're really looking for. But ultimately what we're trying to do is give a platform where any practice within our platform is beneficial, whether it's a targeted goal that you're going towards, whether it's a daily practice, whether it's a fix for an injury or you're like working through an injury, um, spending time with mobility will always have a net benefit. And how do you help, um, introduce the relationship piece to it? What's the community, what's the connection with other people as they're going through it? So we work heavily. I mean, the whole company was born

out of like a community vibe. CrossFit is very much that community centric type piece. So we've always approached it as whether it's, you know, large in-person activations or through our athletes. Today we find it more scalable to use our athletes, our sponsored athletes who are, you know, great personable people on social media to show how they use it in day-to-day life in pretty relatable ways. Like I'm laying out by the pool.

I'm, you know, doing this with my wife so I have more time with her. Like basically just connecting with this is how it fits within my life um and we built the community around kind of this you know people are interested in fitness people are interested in sport but honestly people just want to invest in themselves okay so is it a couple weeks in then then you find that, is there a conversion? So that's the conversion we're talking about. Okay. And then once people are converted, obviously you'd want them to stay forever, right? Okay, good. That's a good business model. At what point is this first sticking point that you need to re-grab their attention? I think a lot of it comes from once people

start feeling good, it's one of those things where they feel like they don't need it anymore. So we've seen a pretty cyclical thing with the business, which I haven't seen in any other business I've been involved in. So it's interesting in that people will come on the platform. They'll stay for a period of time. They leave for a short period of time, and then they come back to the platform. And do they pause their membership or, or the membership is continuing? And then they're like, Oh, I actually, I need to come back in. We've seen it both ways. Some people, some people just let the membership run. Some actually cancel. We see it more than numbers when they cancel. Like we can of course look at the activity data, but the harder numbers are like watching the subscription drop. So

we monitor that heavily. And, you know, it's, it's, our goal is to interact with those customers and see if we can keep them from that gap area, but ultimately. Yeah. You want to move them through that gap. Correct. So Procheska's model of theoretical model of change is a great five-step, you know, there's pre-contemplation, contemplation, preparation, action, and maintenance. And you've captured them at pre-contemplation, I'm sorry, contemplation to preparation to take action.

So that's the phase we're talking about. Then from action to maintenance, it's tricky. So a little bit of action, you're saying there's a drop. Nice. And if you can figure out what those triggers are and get right before them, obviously, then with the right nudges and the right whatevers, you can help get to maintenance.

And then I found that that's where community can show up in a very powerful way. Is imagine you and I are at a social event that we want to be at. And at some point I look over at you Imagine you and I are at a social event that we want to be at. Okay. And at some point I look over at you and you're kind of like, I think I'm ready to go. And then I'm like, yeah, okay.

Yeah, it sounds good. And then the host comes over. Says, Scott, how you doing? I haven't had a chance to connect with you yet. And you go, oh, good. Now there's like this bump up, right? And then the host says, Scott, actually, there's someone I want you to meet. Do you have a few more minutes before you go?

And you go, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So there's like that relational moment. Absolutely. It's a great way of putting it. Yeah. And so when you're modeling, when you think about a membership, is it a subscription or a membership? Is it a community or is it a training platform? We try to build it as a community.

I think training platform is something that you're going in and you're seeking a short-term goal or you're seeking a smaller goal, we would position it as a community because this is a lifelong practice that we hope that we can provide for you or bring with you in. Mobility is not something that you can do and get done. It's not like you've lost the weight so you're done. You always have to maintain it. Mobility is the same thing. It needs to be maintained and, and worked on consistently. Did you have that same, like a double loop experience with your own mobility training?

Like you got after it for a little bit and then there was a fall off and then you came back? To an extent. I think I'm, you know, being the position I'm in, I'm always heavily involved because it's like R&D and product and with our coaches and everything. So I'm always more involved than most. But I came, I certainly fell much more in love with mobility when I got into a fitness practice. So when I corrected, I mean, I had a great deal of help in this. But when I started getting into health and wellness personally, when my health and wellness took a turn for the positive you start working out heavily you start beating up your body a little bit the value of mobility is shown that much more that's right you can't get into the right positions you can't lift the right way you're like it's you just the the real world applicate real world application becomes

very clear is your target market for the already movers or is it for the professional sitters or like the people that are like you were in 2019? It's all. I mean, we obviously we can't be everything to everyone, but those three groups we actually tackle in different ways. Finding Mastery is brought to you by Cozy Earth. Over the years, I've learned that recovery doesn't just happen when we sleep. It starts with how we transition and wind down. And that's why I've built intentional routines into the way that I close my day. And Cozy Earth has become a new part of that. Their bedding, it's incredibly soft, like next level soft. And what surprised me the most is how much it actually helps regulate temperature.

I tend to run warm at night and these sheets have helped me sleep cooler and more consistently, which has made a meaningful difference in how I show up the next day for myself, my family, and our team here at Finding Mastery. It's become part of my nightly routine. Throw on their lounge pants or pajamas, crawl into bed under their sheets, and my nervous system starts to settle. grow on their lounge pants or pajamas, crawl into bed under their sheets, and my nervous system starts to settle. They also offer a 100-night sleep trial and a 10-year warranty on all of their bedding, which tells me, tells you, that they believe in the long-term value of what they're

creating. If you're ready to upgrade your rest and turn your bed into a better recovery zone, use the code FINDINGMASTERY for 40% off at CozyEarth.com. That's a great discount for our community. Again, the code is FINDINGMASTERY for 40% off at CozyEarth.com. Finding Mastery is brought to you by Caldera Lab. I believe that the way we do small things in life is how we do all things. And for me, that includes how I take care of my body. I've been using Caldera Lab for years now. And what keeps me coming back, it's really simple.

Their products are simple and they reflect the kind of intentional living that I want to build into every part of my day. And they make my morning routine really easy. They've got some great new products I think you'll be interested in, a shampoo, conditioner, and a hair serum. With Caldera Lab, it's not about adding more. It's about choosing better. And when your day demands clarity and energy and presence, the way you prepare for it matters.

If you're looking for high-quality personal care products that elevate your routine without complicating it, I'd love for you to check them out. Head to calderalab.com slash finding mastery and use the code finding mastery at checkout for 20% off your first order. That's calderalab, C-A-L-D-E-R-L-A-B.com slash finding mastery. Oh, so you saw those as three. The professional sitter is like someone who was once more active, but now has a slight kyphosis, the hunching of the back or rounding of the back and tight hips. Yep. And maybe an Achilles shortening and a neck that's kind of bothering them.

Okay. Right. And maybe a little bit of elbow. All the things. Okay. So all the things. So that person versus somebody that is really struggling with their health versus somebody that's super active and just wants to open up their hips a little bit more so they can get into a deeper squat. Correct. Okay. So those are three groups. And then for the professional

sitters, do you have a couple of practices that you use or that your app points to that would be really important for someone just to consider as a way to play with, you know, throughout the rhythm of their day? Something they can do. Yeah, I mean, absolutely. That's a we've so within the app, we have specific content that addresses this. You can follow along with. But something that's in development that we're working on heavily is like these micro moments. You know, if you can't take 15 minutes to do a full lower back routine, let's take three minutes at your desk to just take a break, step back from the computer and do something that you can do anywhere at your desk,

whether that's, you know, some shoulder work, whether that's some lower back work, whether that's just like some ankle work. All right, give me one. Give me one. Give me one. Give me three. So, I mean, literally at your desk. I need help.

You can, you know, stand up and on any floor you can jump into a pigeon pose, which you need no equipment. You need nothing for. Pigeon pose. Yep. And that's going to work, you know, everything through the hip, the lower back, and just start opening you up. Also known as a runner's lunge.

To an extent, yep. So there's all sorts of variations. Pigeon has like seven primary variations you can do. Okay, so let's describe it. So the pigeon is you come down to the floor and depending on your range of mobility, so left foot would go forward, left foot would then turn inward. So you're bringing your knee to the floor. Your right foot is also on the floor.

You want your chest upright. And the goal is you should be feeling the stretch all through back of your leg, glute, and into your lower back. So one knee is bent. One knee is straight behind you. Correct. Or one leg is straight behind you. And you're kind of leaning into that bent front knee is bent. One knee is straight behind you. Correct. Or one leg is straight behind you. And you're kind of leaning into that bent front knee. Correct.

Pigeon pose, runner's line or runner's whatever. And so, okay, when I'm in slacks, it's not working really well. If I'm in jeans that are, you know, like a little stiff. Yeah, I could see that. All right. So like, and I don't want to sweat i'm giving you some resistance here um how do you address some of those so for those we work on like uh some at-desk upper body movements yeah you say okay well don't don't do it then that's fine

if you're gonna have you know resistance don't do those do something else yeah the goal is our goal is to increase adoption and to get people to like make it part of the routine you have to remove all friction points so if it is something that's like all right well i'm in jeans so it isn't going to work it's like all right well here's what you can do that you can do in any shirt in any clothes um so we would work on like whether it's it can be as basic as some wrist mobility or more pertinent to that group of people would be like upper back mobility the kyphosis issues bringing everything back and solid so what do you do there so that would be what we call like an archer position or one arm comes over the head

one arm comes from behind and if you can manage to grab both your hands together oh you're in the rare percentage of yes most people can't. So you use either, you can grab, you know, a towel, a band, anything to connect the two hands. Yeah. Okay, so one arm straight up next to your ear, and it's reaching back to kind of grab the back of your neck. The other arm's folding underneath in the opposite direction,

and you're just trying to open up one shoulder in one posture and the other shoulder in the other posture. And then you would switch. You swap it. You swap it. And you'd say, grab a towel, grab something. Yep. And those can be for, you know, as long as you're willing to do so or as short as you have the time for.

So static stretching, there was a, it's having a moment. And there's some pushback on the research about whether it is okay or not, if it's good or not. Absolutely. Yeah. So tell me about your position as a company on static stretching. Yeah. So one of my business partners that designed Rom1 effectively has worked on this for years and ultimately we've come to the position as a company that it is a should be like a cool-down practice so

where the resistance comes from is people say it shouldn't be a warm-up to an athletic movement so long hold stretches not for a warm-up correct long gated the elasticity of the exercise of the muscle band or whatever. And that's not the place to do. That's not the time or place to do prior to. That is the argument. That is the argument that's out there. So it's not a danger to the tissue that you're going to hold and stretch too long.

And no, no, it's a, I mean, static stretching, all you're doing, it's by its form, it's meant to be non-stressful. So obviously we have to coach and make sure people don't push themselves too far, really make it like an active movement. But if you're performing static stretches properly, you are at no risk of doing those things. Yeah, I don't know. I think probably you are competing with Kelly Start. I think that that might be a, I don't, I don't know for sure. Kelly is a, I mean, Kelly's a genius in what he does. I really respect what he's brought because he brings a awareness of mobility. Like he's the one that's really put mobility on the map

in the world. You know, he's gone out and, and he really made it the thing. You know what I love that he does? It just makes it available. It's like, look, just do this. And we do two totally separate things. I mean, what Kelly does is much more like a PT style, addressing injury, very technical. He's literally a doctor in what he does. What we're trying to do is make it easy for everyone.

Make it simple, make it direct. It doesn't need to be complex. You don't need bars and bands and balls and all these things to do it. I mean, of course, we have some of our movements that require those things. But the ultimate goal is you could do it anytime, anywhere, short period of time, long period of time. This needs to be something that fits within your lifestyle. What do you see as the future of mobility work? And double part question, what do you see as the future of pliability?

I mean, we're trying, our goal is to create the future mobility in that we, so we developed this mobility scanner assessment with the iPhone, where effectively you stand in front of a wall, set up your iPhone, our app guides you through a series of movements. And using the LiDAR technology in the phone, 3D mapping, and a bunch of magic sauce, we identify where you're restricted in mobility, and then we can present programming off of that. Our ultimate goal... Is this IP owned? It is. We developed it.

Or it's in the market? Yeah. No, this is something we're very proud to say we developed it from the ground up. We had a developer that was very into this vision technology, which is an API of Apple's. And it's worked on it for years, worked on it with our coaches, worked on it with our motion specialists. And how do you have confidence in the reference points

that you base the model on? Broad testing. We have a user base that spans users in 100 countries. So as this deploys, we get a lot of data back. We can have that data analyzed. We can have it looked at. And it's just having a broad set of data to be able to validate it. This is what most humans that move under our camera, our lighting, our IP, this is what most do. And this is what the greats do or the very healthy do. Yeah. I mean, it's all over the spectrum. Everyone has, whether it's a genetic restriction. I think one interesting thing I was told when I started working the man would just be in the splits on the floor

because he could. And he would just chill in the splits like it was nothing. And I remember saying to him, I'm never going to be able to do that. And he broke it down for me. He said, well, that could be true or that could not be true. Some people simply will never be able to do the splits because of the way their hips are designed and their bones and stuff. But most people, it's just a muscular restriction. So it's interesting hearing that there actually is multiple parts to it being possible and it not being possible. Okay, so go back to the future of pliability, but the future of mobility. Future mobility would be getting, we need people to understand that it is a core part of life but also a core part of training so just like everyone spends time you know they know they need to do

cardio they know they need to do strength mobility should be that third piece mobility should be like the foundational piece to anything you want to do in movement so we want to take it to the world and say if you want to lift your grandkids up if you want to stay moving you know if you want to do in movement so we want to take it to the world and say if you want to lift your grandkids up if you want to stay moving you know if you want to feel great at 80 this is a lifelong practice you need to be part of and then we say to the sports and the athletes like this this should be foundational to what you do if you do this well the other two pieces fall in line okay look i think uh i, the reason I wanted to introduce what you're doing to our community is because in the executive space, like the corporate lifestyle, I'm watching people like turn into hunchbacks, like really stressed out. Maybe I'm talking about myself

here. I'm not sure, but like I'm watching, I'm watching this curvature that's happening. And I just want to celebrate two things, the solution that you're building or have built. I say building because of course it's going to evolve, but you've built it. And then the second is people that needed something in their lives and then go out in the world and build it.

And so you didn't quite know how much you needed it, but at some deep level, your intuition was like, I want to invest in that both from a financial economic model opportunity, but there's probably something far deeper as I've gotten to know you that that of course is what you needed. Right. A community of people that are valuing health.

Full stop. Absolutely. Yeah. Bravo on getting through like the pain or working with the pain. I don't know if anyone's ever through pain, but working with the pain to get to something that is celebrating life for so many. I didn't do it alone. I had a great deal of help along the way. I mean, everything from mentors during that time,

I mean, our staff during that time. And then, I mean, ultimately the last four years, like me getting my health and wellness on track is that was bringing a new partner into the business. So I had Cody Mooney, who's an ex-CrossFit Games athlete, and he was a sponsored athlete of the team for years. Did I meet Cody? You did. Yeah, at our event. Yep. Yeah, he was there. Yeah. Yeah. So Cody is the newest partner to the business, and he was the guy that I called. I'd known him for years as an athlete. He was the newest partner to the business. And he was the guy that I called.

I'd known him for years as an athlete. He was the guy that I called when I hit my lowest health point. And it was because I was vulnerable and I didn't know I needed someone I could trust. And I called him and I said, look, I don't know what to do about this health and wellness thing. You know, he wasn't sure what he was doing on his crossfit career path you know crossfitters don't typically have you know it's not like a nfl track type career so i called him up and said you know hey can you can you remote coach me what can be done and to make a long story short through that remote coaching which eventually turned into side-by-side

partnership i learned the value of health and wellness and really gained an appreciation and new outlook on how important that is not only for my life, but for what we do as a business. And he was able to kind of like mind meld the entire business from me. So now instead of me having the majority of the load of the business, we share the load of the business and are able to play this like yin and yang scenario. Oh, there you go. How did you know that you could trust Cody? Good. That's, that's like that gut intuition that I look for in people. Um, I knew him for years. I had traveled with him, um, as a sponsored athlete, but it's a, it's a level of integrity and loyalty that you don't find in many people um he just does what he says he's going to do and

it was instinct i just i knew i could trust him and um he's proven that time and time and time again okay very cool there's typically three legs to the stool of trust, which is authenticity. They show up over and over again in a consistent way. High stress, low stress are the same person. Benevolence is like the third leg where you get this idea like they're in it for me too. They're in it for themselves. Like there's something that is going to work for them. But I also see that they've got room or a shared space for both of us to be great together.

And then the third is ability. They've got the chops to get something done, and I can rest on knowing that they've got some real skills. And that's where I was able to see in Cody through his athletic career, watching him compete, that box was checked immediately for me when he came to the door because you would watch, for those not familiar with the sport of CrossFit, it's basically all sports in one. It's the sport of working out.

You're just crushing yourself at a very high intensity. And Cody did very well at it, literally second on the podium on teams. And the work ethic i knew was there so when you add the work ethic piece and then you add the integrity and loyalty that was shown time and time again my goal of of building with him was look your your concern that your career trajectory as an athlete where's it going to go? You have these pieces I think we can build on. Let's roll. So, okay, let's round third base here.

Are there a couple things that you would hope, based on your investment in your own life to be healthier and the business model that you're creating based on health, are there a few things that you would hope people could practice or would practice to be just a little bit better themselves? I think the biggest one that I've been working on with myself lately is, is taking silent moments,

taking time for yourself and taking like taking space i guess it's you know just like the concept of holding space for others hold space for yourself and that you need to step away from the technology the phones the family craziness the everything you can and even if you can only find five minutes you need to take that time and if you can mix it with a physical practice in with the mental practice like those re-centering yourself is is more beneficial than i'd ever realized and literally your mobility work does hit on those it's five minutes like you said there um, stillness that you can find in slow movements or static holds. And at the same time you are clutter free, right. Um, and just with your mind and your body. That's the goal. I love it, man. Thank you. Um, I really appreciate what

you're building and how you're going about it. And I thank you for, um, for coming in today. Oh, thank you for having me. Yeah. I appreciate it. I appreciate you. All right. Thank you so much for diving into another episode of Finding Mastery with us. Our team loves creating this podcast and sharing these conversations with you. We really appreciate you being part of this community. And if you're enjoying the show, the easiest no cost way to support is to hit the this community. And if you're enjoying the show, the easiest no-cost way to support is to hit the subscribe or follow button wherever you're listening. Also, if you haven't already,

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