Finding Mastery with Dr. Michael Gervais - Nate Boyer: Going For It (Part 1)

Episode Date: March 9, 2016

Some people think about adventure — and others make their life a living adventure. Nate graduated high school unsure about his path in life. Looking for a challenge and to make a difference, he made his way to the Darfur region of Sudan to help in the refugee camps. The experience, coupled with his memories of 9/11, inspired him to enlist in the U.S. Army as a Special Forces candidate, and he became one of 11 from his class of 150 to graduate with a Green Beret. He has served in Iraq and Afghanistan, earning a Bronze Star for heroism in combat. In this episode: -Appreciating the Process -Being fueled by negative energy -Why you can’t be afraid to fail -Looking up to his father -Why he got into trouble as a kid -The “Blue Collar” Way -The challenges of giving your children everything or nothing -Embracing change and becoming uncomfortable -What motivated him to go to Darfur -Confidence v. Cockiness -Having a purpose -Why making a difference is important to him -Outworking everyone else -Utilizing self-talk -Training the mind to reject negative thoughts_________________Subscribe to our Youtube Channel for more powerful conversations at the intersection of high performance, leadership, and meaning: https://www.youtube.com/c/FindingMasteryGet exclusive discounts and support our amazing sponsors! Go to: https://findingmastery.com/sponsors/Subscribe to the Finding Mastery newsletter for weekly high performance insights: https://www.findingmastery.com/newsletter Download Dr. Mike's Morning Mindset Routine! https://www.findingmastery.com/morningmindsetFollow us on Instagram, LinkedIn, and X.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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that go for it and some people that play it safe. And I'm waiting to understand how a conservative approach is the path towards mastery. And I know it's there. I just haven't been able to learn about it and from it yet. In this conversation, we're going to reinforce the importance of having an idea, being inspired, being consumed with it, and then being able to figure out the skills necessary to be able to execute against the vision. And part of that skill prerequisite is to be able to let it rip, to take a shot, to go for it, to embrace what is not known and trust one's own ability to be able to adjust to the unknown. Finding Mastery is brought to you by LinkedIn Sales Solutions. In any high-performing environment

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when you head to davidprotein.com slash finding mastery. That's David D-A-V-I-D protein, P-R-O-T-E-I-N.com slash finding mastery. And in this conversation with Nate Boyer, he talks about how he didn't have a clear vision and a clear plan, but he had an idea and he was inspired to go help. And that process of wanting to help others that were maybe less fortunate and had a struggle. And what I'm talking about is Sudan and his work there that eventually led him to want to serve the US military and he became a Green Beret. And where he and I first met, which was when he was training to become a long snapper at the Seattle Seahawks, his story is just phenomenal. And the way that he conducted himself was noticeable. And I'm absolutely thrilled to know him. I'm excited to be able to have this

conversation with him. And if you have questions, hit him up on social, hit us up on social as well at Michael Gervais. And then you can also go to findingmastery.net for other podcasts as well. And just as a side note, is I think we're many episodes in, I don't know the exact number. And at some point, right about now, there'll be likely a sponsorship that will drop in place. So just know that's coming at some point. Right now, this is completely funded and solely a passion project. And it is funded by me. And so at some point, the information is so good and so wonderful.

And the scale that's taking place so quickly is unbelievable. So hopefully there'll be a little business model in here somewhere, which will allow us to keep going. So thank you, everyone, for helping us reach. I think it was top 23 that we cracked in iTunes under whatever particular section. I think it's the, I don't know the exact section. I think it's health and well-being. So wonderful. Thank you. Thank you. Keep the questions coming. I love them and look forward to hearing from you soon. Okay. All the best with the greatest

hope that this conversation is as intriguing as it was for me. Here's Nate Boyer. Nate, how are you? I'm good. How are you doing? Yeah, great. Okay. So, um, thanks for coming in. Yep. Thanks for doing this. Yeah. I'm really looking forward to seeing where this conversation goes and what I can learn from you. Okay. Likewise. Yeah. Okay. Good. Let's both do that. Let's, let's, let's get on that place where, um, hopefully we can explore together what mastery is and how you've captured it and what you think about it. But more importantly, like what's the path that's led you there? And you've had a really unique journey. It's all about the journey.

It is, isn't it? Yeah. In everything you do, I think, you know, I mean, that's, I guess that's a common quote, you know, it's not the, it's the journey, not the destination or something, but it's so true. Why do you say it's so true? Because even through the failures and the close calls and I almost made it happen, you learn so much about yourself. And there's all those little moments within that, that just kind of you look back on and those were the, those are the most exciting than actually, you know, completing the mission really. I mean, it's, it's, it's, uh, that's why it's about the journey. Cause that's, uh, that's life really, but it's that whole time in between, um, you know, all the doubts and the, uh, and then the hope and then whatever it is,

all that stuff, you know, all the thoughts running through your mind and everything your body's experiencing, um, is yeah, you just, just every second thinking about that during the, during the process and then thinking back on it later is just more interesting than, you know, getting the trophy or whatever. Yeah. People often ask, I'm curious if you've had this conversation, but people often ask about, on the world stage or winning on the world stage, what that's like. And I think what's way more valuable is being able to recapture the moments that I was able to capture and remember and be part of, as opposed to when I was just busy trying to get through it. And, you know, that hustle, which is so unrewarding. Right. Is it the same for you it's like yeah I mean honestly speaking from a football aspect um my greatest some of my greatest memories are games we lost you know really and uh because of the circumstances and you know how the game went um the interaction of the fans.

So an example I love to use is my last season, my senior year, when we played – I went to Texas, University of Texas, and we play Oklahoma in the Red River rivalry game every year. And it's in the Cotton Bowl, neutral site, half the stadium is orange, half the stadium is crimson. It's a big deal. How many people are at the stadium? I think Cotton Bowl is like 80,000 or 90,000.

It's actually not as big as ours. Our stadium is about 101,000. But it's different because everybody is half drunk, just going nuts. I mean the fans – I mean talking about the fans, not the players. But I mean it's rowdy. And it's literally split down the fan, I mean, talking about the fans, not the players, but I mean, it's, you know, it's rowdy and it's literally split down the middle, half red, half white. And, uh, you come, we come out of the tunnel and we come out of the tunnel on the OU side where all the fans are. And so they're just booing and throwing stuff. And you just kind of,

you learn to love that, you know, it's just that negative energy. Somehow you can turn that into fuel for what you're doing. That's all right. This is where, this is where I get really excited is first. I think we, it would be good for us to set up your journey a little bit more, but I want to hit this piece because oftentimes a great fear for people is, um, what others think of them. So if somebody else doesn't approve, you, you, you know where I'm going with this, right? Like if someone doesn't approve of me or someone doesn't find what I've done to be valuable and we learned this at a young age and it's probably something very tribal. You know, there's conversations that it's really tribal that, um, if you didn't perform well enough,

if people didn't include you in the tribe and you're kicked out of the tribe, that it was going to be really tough to provide for your family alone so that the unit and the tribe and the team made survival much easier for people so when you come through the tunnel there's like one or two ways to go through that either you say damn i'm here let's go look at the noise i've created or the other side of it is oh man this is this is a tough crowd oh man yeah obviously you went. Yeah. Obviously you went the first way. Yeah. You went the first. Yeah. I mean, and that's, for me, that was something that it wasn't always there. It was something I had to learn, I guess, and just experience, uh, the bad side of that first where I really cared what people thought, you know, and it really mattered to me

until some of the experiences I went through in life just made me realize that it's just talk. It's just noise, like you call it. I mean, it doesn't matter. And half the stuff, half that noise is stuff we make up in our own minds anyway. It's not even there. You know, it's like imagined. Where did you learn that second part of the conversation that you just said? There's lots of noise, external and internal.

And the internal we make up i think just through through observing other people you know and not not so much myself but just watching someone else who maybe is very talented at something but there's something there something's holding them back and there's nothing there it's holding them back it's them holding themselves back yeah and and you know i i just because you don't see it in yourself it's kind of like the love is blind thing sometimes you don't realize you're acting crazy you know uh and there's something you're um something you're just imagining you're making up that's not happening and i just noticed that in other people i had you

know i had a friend of mine a very talented photographer for instance i was like dude you need to just you know take your photos submit it to these people try to get an apprenticeship with the this great photographer this and that and i'm like you are amazing i'm not just saying that and and i mean your stuff's and he's and he knows he's good but he's just that fear of failure that what if it doesn't you know what if people think this and what if um you know i'm just not smart enough i'm not all this bs is not real yeah okay so if we've got three parts of our conversation today the first will be that your journey the second is your psychological framework the way you understand

yourself and how you fit in the world and right right like that's that robust sturdy way that we move through the world and then the third will be kind of on the mindset or mental skills that you've used to accomplish and experience what you've done. Right now, we're kind of jumping in my head. We're jumping ahead a little bit to the framework. But let's go back and talk about your journey is phenomenal. You had this tug on your heart to go help another region and land. And I want you to talk about that in a minute. And then that led you to sign up for one of the, I don't know, the most, the highest stakes and

most incredible training that a human can go through to see if you have what it takes to be a Green Beret, which you did. And then you found yourself pulled back into sport and you pursued that all the way through where we met, which was at the Seattle Seahawks. Right. Like, oh, yeah. And then part of today will be for us to talk about what you're doing next. You know, where this your experiences of taking you next. But start start at the beginning for us. Like, where did you first begin this path to want to deeply understand and make a difference and walk us through that a little bit yeah well i mean i grew up in the bay area and i grew up is that san francisco san francisco bay area yep i grew up in the east bay so did so did i did you yeah i spent i was born on a farm in

virginia and then i spent some time um as a let's see what grade was i in how long were you there i was there like six seven eight nine and i was there i moved we moved what grade was I in? How long were you there? I was there like six, seven, eight, nine. I was there. I moved, we moved there. I was born in Tennessee, moved there when I was two, lived there until I was nine in El Cerrito, you know where El Cerrito is. And then we moved to Colorado for four years and then back to the Bay for high school and all that. What city, El Cerrito in high school? No. And I actually went to high school in Dublin. Okay. Do you know where that is? It's even further East. Okay. okay it's uh it's not too exciting which leads me to this point uh i mean there's nothing wrong with it's a very nice place it's very comfortable um you know it's not

super wealthy like crazy but there there's a lot of wealth nearby you know the school i went to a public school for the first couple years of high school second two years i went to a private school i got a little bit of trouble it really wasn't that bad but my parents were like you know if you want to keep i was playing baseball and basketball those are my sports did did your folks have money to be able to yeah no they did we were comfortable when i was younger we had nothing so i got to see that too i think that shaped me a lot too uh you know when you say nothing well when we moved we moved, so when I was, I was born in Tennessee, my dad was, um, finished getting his veterinary degree from university Tennessee. So he's a student. My mom was working out there in Oak Ridge. Uh, she's an environmental

engineer. So they're super educated, very smart. And okay. So nothing is an overstatement. We didn't have nothing, but I think we drove from Tennessee to California. Uh, when I was two, I obviously don't remember this, but they're in the, you know, we had a van with all our stuff in the back. They had two bucket seats in the van and then just nothing kind of like a painter's van sort of. And so my car seats between the two, uh, seats, and they're just kinda, it's just kinda of bolted down i guess for the ride so you know went out there with that moved to el cerrito small little place uh there's a little two-bedroom place um and then you know soon after little brother little sister so the three of us

are in one bedroom and um but it's plenty nice everything yeah – So early on it was lean. Not a food issue or anything like that. Everything you needed. Yeah. But my parents worked very hard for all that. I mean they had student loans and all these things. My dad's a veterinarian. So he finished his vet degree at University of Tennessee. My mom's an environmental engineer.

She got her civil engineering PhD from Berkeley. So that's not cheap to do that. But obviously, they're very smart, hardworking, diligent people. So you got to see as a young child the drive, the commitment, the passion, the sacrifice of trying to make – I didn't understand it. But yes, I saw it. Yeah, but you saw it. Yeah, you didn't – now you do, right?

What goes into that. But at a young age, you were probably shaped to see that people that were important to you wanted to make a better life. Right. Right? Yeah. No, I – you know, my dad – and he still works like seven days a week. He takes time off more now and so he has time to go do, um, you know, he went to like a lot of like road games. He actually went to Texas OU game one year with us, you know, with when I was playing in and, um, but I mean, he works on Christmas day, you know, I mean the guy, and that's just

part of the job. That's part of you choose to be a racehorse veterinarian. Then the racing business, you know, if you're at a track that runs year round, they run every day. And, uh, and if you want to keep your clients, you gotta be there. You gotta be on call. He gets calls in the middle of the night, you know, and he'd get up every day at four 45, you know, go in the living room, do his sit-ups, do his pushups, hit the jump rope a little bit, you know, have a little breakfast, go to work, get home at like seven, you know, and then, uh, spend time with, with me and my brother and sister and my mom what was passed out in the living room at you know 9 p.m on the laying down because he's just exhausted you know what was that like because i my dad worked really hard as well right looking back i didn't

see him as often as i don't know it was just normal but he traveled a bunch and worked really hard and was was out there kind of straining and striving to do better. And what was that like for you looking back now? It's just – it's really inspiring actually. It wasn't until later in life that I realized that he was my hero. I always looked up to him because he's my dad and he's a great guy, but realizing the sacrifices that he made for his family. Um, and it's not like he hated his job. I mean, he loved his job, but still he, that's a lot of, you know, he missed out on a lot of things. Um, and not because, you know, he, he, he wasn't there cause he chose to not be there because he chose, um, for us to have

every opportunity possible. You know, my brother got to go to college in, in, at an Ivy league school in Pennsylvania at UPenn. And, uh, uh, my sister, once she got kind of into high school, she started riding horses. That's not cheap. You know what I mean? But all that stuff wouldn't have been possible without my dad working 80 hours a a week you know the obvious joke is the vet bill was taken care of for the horse the vet bill was taken care of yes so there was that yeah but there's still you know you got to put the horse up and uh but yes that's that's key i don't think i don't think she would have got one of one for that um but yeah so then but but in high school, I just didn't – it's not that other people's parents weren't good people. It's just they weren't – I was just very fortunate to have two parents that worked full-time, hardworking.

They honestly didn't have a lot of friends and it's not because they're not likable people. It's just their focus is their family and their work. They're both very good at their jobs. And then when we all had time off, we would go somewhere and do something. We'd go camping or go do some cool stuff. So I was just so lucky. But then I grew up in this neighborhood – or I guess later in life. When I was in high school, we kind of moved to a nicer area.

And it just – there was no – everyone was the same. You know what I mean? Every house looked the same. Everyone had a nice car. Nothing was hard. Nobody had to earn anything. Not the kids I was growing up with. It wasn't a lot of –

What got you in trouble? The kids I was growing up with you know it wasn't a lot of what got you the kids I was around um trying to make life difficult trying to give myself some challenges you know so just stupid things stupid things just like shoplifting yeah but you're still still doing this now what do you mean still doing this you're still searching for challenges. Right. Like who – But I mean that's a –

Who walks off the street and says, I want to be a Green Beret? I mean thousands of people obviously if you look over the history of time. Yeah. But yeah, I mean yes. No, I definitely – So this has been a theme for you. Yeah. That was just –

I guess that's just the way I'm wired. But yeah, that, this is how I know, this is how I understand you. Like what you just captured when you're 15, that you got picked up for shoplifting. Like you were trying to figure out a challenge. I didn't need anything. I didn't even want the stuff really. It was just the, the, the rush and the, can I do this? Can I get away with this? You know what I mean? That's what it was about. And I remember feeling that even though I didn't probably understand it at 15. I mean, that's what it was. So pull on that thread. Where do you think that came from?

Go to age 12 or 13, 14. Like, well, maybe part of that too. Maybe part of that was seeing, uh, knowing that it wasn't that way. It wasn't like it was, it was not that way for my mother, for instance, you know, she grew up, she had, you know, four brothers and sisters, small house in Colorado, very blue collar. And, and then she's giving me, you know, they're trying to give us this better life and this better neighborhood, better schools and all that. And I'm just like, I don't, I want what I want to grow up. Like you grew up. You know what I mean? I want to earn my stuff. She earned everything she got. You know what I mean? Her parents didn't pay for her college. She paid for a college. She did all that stuff herself. And I respect that. And I respect people that do that. Finding mastery is brought to you by

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Just head to FelixGray.com and use the code FINDINGMASTERY20 at checkout. Again, that's Felix Gray. You spell it F-E-L-I-X-G-R-A-Y.com and use the code FINDINGMASTERY mastery 20 at Felix gray.com for 20% off. Does she teach you to respect that? Um, yeah, I mean, not, not necessarily, but saying it, you know, but just, uh, my parents never told us how to be, you know what I mean? She never told us how to live, what we, we have to do this. You have to say this, you have to think that.

Um, but it was just, they just led by example, which is the best way. We have to do this. You have to say this. You have to think that. But it was just they just led by example, which is the best way. And obviously we were punished if we did wrong or did something like shoplifted or cheated on a test or whatever it was. But no, they definitely – I mean it was by example. It was just the way that they lived their lives. Um, just selfless, very selfless, you know? And so even as a kid, you feel guilty when you're, you realize everything you're doing is for you and you got, you know, your, your, your mom and dad, yeah, that was in there to give you that. And then also that things are so easy for you. I felt guilty. You know what I mean? I'm like, God, it was the end. out of high school and you wanted to go make a difference? Right. Well, not yet. Not yet. Okay.

I moved down to San Diego after high school. I wanted to earn my way. I wanted that blue color life. You know what I mean? So that's, uh, do you have a blue collar life now? Yeah, I do. Definitely. I created that and I love it. What does that mean what does a blue-collar life mean that means to me you're doing it you're doing everything everything yourself you're making things happen on your own and you can use resources and other people and stuff like that but I think of blue-collar I just think of hard work, you know, elbow grease, all those type of things. Putting in the time, sacrifice. Sacrifice is a huge part of that, you know.

And so like my parents, now they both – I mean we lived well because as I got older, I just kind of saw the whole evolution of it because my dad worked so hard. He started making more money and getting more clients and you know, more clients and, uh, becoming sort of a, I mean, he's a staple at Golden Gate fields in Berkeley, that racetrack, everyone knows my dad is Doc Boyer. You know, he moved there. He didn't know anybody. You know what I mean? He didn't even, uh, he just got out of vet school and he just kind of walked, you know, walked on like, Oh, it sounds familiar. He didn't have any hookups no one you know what i mean no one gave him uh gave him an introduction to okay they had honcho he just he just made it happen so and that's a blue collar way so yeah this is your you're so you had a great model for the blue collar way

right you didn't you didn't appreciate any type of spoon feeding no you're right you've you sounds like you you pushed against that a bit totally but then so then okay let's san diego so then you get to san diego to try to like start the blue collar way if you will right was that school no at school well no kind of i uh you know my my parents it wasn't pressure so much as like you look you need to go to college and i think a lot of that is because that's what they worked for they worked for all this so that you know I would go to college and pursue something you know in the workforce in some way and I just had no idea what I wanted to do that was their model that was their

model yeah that was just their idea and I could totally I could totally understand that I mean if I had a, I want to give that child every opportunity and open the door for them and be like, look, like, look, you know, I worked really hard so you could have this, please take advantage of this. Now there's an athlete that I work with who was one of, um, I don't know. I think he, I think he won three rings, two or three rings in the NBA. Like he was on very successful teams and the conversation was about, you know, how's your son doing? And he says, you know, I gave him everything. I gave him the best shoes, the best camps, the best coaches. I gave him everything, but I couldn't give him the one thing that I didn't have, which is nothing. Right. And that, that, that I think

about this a lot. It was a one quick little conversation. Now I want to ask you like quick, what are the quick little small conversations that have shaped your life? But this was me as a professional having a conversation with a successful athlete. Right. And that, that just strikes me because, you know, I came from middle America as well. Yeah. And I didn't go go for wanting but when we grew up on a farm um like i had to chop some wood right at a six six seven eight year old like i was chopping wood out there like there was work to do and i'm i'm i wonder if you how you're going to raise your kids like are you going to give them nothing or are you going to give them everything or like you got to find the there's a balance in this find the balance yeah okay sorry uh no so i so so i you know i told them i mean i i did i enrolled in the community college down there um i was taking firefighting classes actually you know because i thought maybe that's what i wanted to do that's about as blue colors you can get yeah and i really admired that i didn't want

to do that i realize that even more now but i had because i had no passion for that it was just the idea of it you know the idea of of of being blue collar you know of of um doing something that made a difference but you know of hard work um and why dar for why did you want to volunteer at dar for okay so well so that first that first job though i started doing that i dropped out almost immediately and started working on a fishing boat firefighting you dropped out of that because that that wasn't a call it wasn't yeah it was blue collar but it didn't have the right yeah and i just i just didn't yeah i wasn't ready for anyone to go to school you know i just kind of did it to appease my parents i moved down there

and i didn't really tell them i dropped out but but I did. And I started working on this, uh, this fishing boat down there, uh, charter fishing boat as a deckhand. And I just sort of walked onto the docks, told him I'd done it before in the Bay area, which I totally hadn't. I'd been fishing like one time, you know, on like a salmon boat. Yeah. I mean, I'd been fishing with my father out like fly fishing and stuff like that, but I never deep sea fishing i went once you know we went on the salmon boat when i was like a senior in high school what made you think that you could be okay that you could get this job done even when you just well it couldn't be that hard i mean i watched the deckhands before it's hard work but it's not very hard to learn okay you know what i mean um and you were good at work. Yeah, I was, I was, uh, I was

willing to do that. I mean, when I was in high school, I worked at a driving range, you know, I mowed lawns. I mean, I did, I did things, you know, hard work, quote unquote, not really that hard looking back on it, but, uh, but yeah, so I got on the, I worked, I worked on the fishing boat for like a year, you know, and it was awesome. I mean, it was, I loved it because it was, um, that, that blue collar lifestyle. I always kind of dreamt of and, and, and was jealous of kind of admired. I loved seeing that, you know, in people and, uh, and I still do now. And so I kind of made that for myself and, you know, but that only goes, we're going on a fishing boat, only go so far, nothing wrong with it, but I needed a new challenge. I need something for you. Yeah.

For me. So I actually moved up here to Los Angeles way back, even way back then I was interested in film, you know, which I am interested now again. And, uh, you know, I thought, well, I don't want to work in this business somehow. I don't know what, um, you know, maybe I'll send myself to try to figure out a way to send myself to film school. I'm not going to ask my parents to send me to film school because they probably totally would have. But I just didn't want their money. I didn't want their help.

I wanted to earn it. And so I lived here for a couple of years and partied a lot. I'm not going to lie. Did you have fun? 19, 20, 21. Yeah, it was fun. It was fun. Did you get in trouble? Or was this just have fun 1920 21 yeah it was fun it was fun did you did you get in

trouble or was this just um no not amazingly no yeah i mean i probably should have and i very well could have uh but no i did not get in trouble um not big trouble anyway and um yeah i started traveling though you know i i would kind of get bummed out and just bored. This town can wear on you, some of the people. Especially when you weren't – I wasn't really pursuing what I came here to pursue in any way like I should have. I wasn't working hard. So I started – I'd travel. I'd get out of the country.

I'd go backpack for like a month. I'd save up my money from working odd jobs and I'd go backpack in Europe for like a month or two. You know what I mean? Just hop on the trains, sleep on the trains half the time. And I kind of like that, just sort of being a drifter for a little bit. Yeah. So you're pulling – there's a thread here for you, which is that hard work this this idea that you can i don't know just go do difficult things without a clear direction right so there wasn't a totally bright line clear direction where you're going now but then you had a the way to say this a high tolerance for uncomfortableness like sleeping on the plane i loved it it was like no i i'd always kind of embraced change but then i

came to realize more that i like sort of pursue and seek out that that discomfort you know what i mean when i start to feel comfortable i start to get kind of down right when you say down do you mean like depressed or bored or like just like yeah i mean i think boredom leads to depression you know what i mean yeah at least for me but i mean yeah i wouldn't say i had i was manic depressive or anything like that but unhappy is a good word okay unhappy so this is a central concept for people to grow and i'm you've lived it i don't know if you've ever learned about this or i'm sure you've heard of it the though, that where we grow is when we get uncomfortable and our whole system turns on. Right. Right. And then there's a quote, there's a quote that's like, um,

life begins at the end of your comfort zone or something like that. Yeah. There you go. Right. Again, Hallmark. Yeah. But the science of that's real, right? As soon as we push ourselves psychologically, physiologically into something that requires strain and stress, that it forces, if we can stay in that uncomfortable zone long enough, an adaptation. And it's painfully slow sometimes, but that's where we become most alive. So you've been living this way, finding uncomfortableness. Yeah.

I mean, the travel and whatnot. And it was great, but it didn't have a purpose. You know what I mean? I was doing it, but I didn't, I didn't have a mission of like, there was no, why, why am I doing this? I was just doing it. Cause it made me feel alive. It made me feel better to just explore and, you know, learn about new cultures, try different things, get away from everything I'm comfortable with and everything i know and uh you know and the 9-11 happened and that had a that had a big effect on me you know i wasn't a really patriotic person you were not or you know i wasn't you know i i didn't i had no it wasn't like disdain or dislike for my country or anything like that but i just didn't understand you didn't have military or service in your family not well my grandfather's were

in world war ii but best generation you know oh totally yeah and uh but one of my grandfathers i never met and the other one was my dad's father um yeah i mean we you know we talked about it but you know he worked on a submarine he was a machinist on a sub and uh i don't know i just didn't i was like oh that's cool you know thanks good for you but yeah i just because i just hadn't in our my generation i was born 1981 so right after you know five years after vietnam ended or so so i didn't really understand i didn't get a sense of that you know the persian gulf never really it wasn't really a war. The Gulf War wasn't a war for us really so much.

You know what I mean? Not with ground troops anyway. And so I just didn't – I didn't know any soldiers. I didn't – except for guys. When I lived in San Diego, guys down on the Marine base or the Navy bases that had that haircut and they're all walking around like robots. I mean that's just the image I had. I never really got to meet any of these people. You just see this guy and I'm like, Oh God, this guy, you know, he thinks he's, you know, Mr. Tough, Tommy tough nuts or whatever. And I'm looking at you now with a camo hat, high and tight on the side haircut.

It's not high and tight. Oh, come on. Higher and tighter mine. This is not beautiful like yours. Yeah. That's so good. But yeah. So, but then, you know, that happened and it was, it was just like, wow. You know, I, I'm so shocked that I didn't even, you know, you don't think about that stuff and stuff like that happens in other countries all the time, you know, daily really in a lot of places i mean look at maybe not to that at that level uh but i mean look at you know the palestine israeli conflict that's been going on forever and it's like every day something's happening you know um but when you're not around it you don't experience it you don't grow up with that especially the way that i grew up it just did no clue you know it's just a lot of these kids I grew up around, I think were super sheltered. And I wasn't so much sheltered, but just growing up in that environment with all that, you know, nobody really cared about that. That wasn't a big deal.

And which is funny. My little sister was super patriotic. I don't know where that came from, but maybe just being around the group she was because she rode horses and it was a little more of a cowboy clique, I guess. Maybe it was that. I don't know. But then it just sort of – that sort of changed for me. It didn't change my patriotism yet, but it was like looking outside of my bubble more and not just – I wanted to do something that made a difference because these guys were you know going off to

Afghanistan and then eventually in 03 were going off to Iraq and and so I wanted to do something too I wanted to make a difference I wanted to be a part of it somehow and it wasn't I didn't know what it was yet because I was like I you know he fed up with a lot of stuff about whether this war is right or wrong or whatever and Um, and I had this image that everybody in these places just hated Americans, all of them, you know, they're just like, Oh, you make me sick. You know that. Uh, and so I just was like, why would we go over there? Why would we, they don't want us there. But then I went to, uh, I read a time magazine article about the Darfur and, uh, this was 2004 and And it was kind of sort of the height of the genocide then.

And I just remember flipping through and looking at these images that were just like they blew me away. I mean, just all the dismemberment of these people and just like the maimed. And I'm reading this story about how all the men are either dead or off fighting. You know, the women have all been raped by these. It was talking about this John Joweed militia specifically that was coming down and it was just, uh, and then the kids are just either taken off as child soldiers or they're, you know, beaten and, um, and the village, they burn the village to the ground, just leave and go to, and I'm like, what, you know, beaten and, um, and the village, they burn the village to the ground, just leave and go to, and I'm like, what, you know, it sounded like Vikings, you know, or something like that.

I just didn't, I was like, I can't believe this is actually real. There's no way this is actually like this, but those pictures were just like, I mean, they weren't, they weren't made up and they kind of spoke to me. So I was like, I just need to, I want to go over and see for myself and I want to go help out, you know, which is, you know, I've read similar magazines and most of us listening have read articles similar, but don't have that thing to say, I want to go see it and I want to go see if I can help. Right. That actually is the way that I understand you is that you've got two things that are really clear is, I don't know if you know, I don't know if you'll agree, I should say, but you've got this huge heart, this big compassion, and you're connected to the way it feels to be you. So there's lots

of feelings that you have. And you're like, I look at you and you're built like a brick house. People probably wouldn't know this. I was about 150 pounds back at this time, but now, but now, so there's this big heart, big compassion, big, uh, connection between the way it feels to be you at the same time, this really kind of bullheaded, you know, uh, purpose driven person. And at the time it sounds like you were just getting this, these two things, your head and your heart, connected. Yeah. No, exactly. I mean, I was, what was I, 23? I turned 23. Yeah, just getting it going.

And I just felt like I had done anything, you know? And then I was just like, man, I'm going. I'm going. I have to go now or never, you know? I'm either going to continue on this sort of downward spiral out here where, where I just feel like I'm not making a difference. I'm not doing anything. I'm not happy or I'm going to do this and my life's going to completely change, you know, which it did. But, uh, and I just had this, you know, my kind of mission or idea was like, if I just get over there, if I can just help, you know, if I can just help one person at least and make a difference in one person's life, then it'll be success.

You know, well, I contacted every NGO possible and all of them just said, no, sorry. If I can just help one person at least and make a difference in one person's life, then it'll be success. Well, I contacted every NGO possible and all of them just said, no, sorry. You don't have a college degree. You have no – there's no way you can help us. There's nothing you qualify for. You're not a doctor. I'm like, well, other people must be over there. What is NGO, national? It's non-governmental organization like doctors without borders child fund you know stuff like

that and yeah I literally called everyone I went to go to the library and just research before I had a laptop you know research on the internet all the organizations and I call them all and I just got a bunch of nose and it was really frustrating and then I just made the decision. I said, you know what? I'm just going to apply for a visa and just buy a plane ticket and go if I can. And, uh, and I'll just figure it out when I get there. Really? Yeah. Yeah. That's how it happened. This is, but this is the same strategy, uh, with the boat, with being a deckhand. This is the same exact strategy. Something's tugging on me and I have this sense inside.

So now we're touching on your framework, your psychological framework. There's something that's important. I want to go try it. I think I can do it. And I'll put in whatever work it is, whether it's going into the library and doing research or scrubbing a deck. Yeah. Yeah. Both of those are work, right? And so this is your framework

now that you're sharing here. So what was the, what, what the, what was the flight pattern looking like? Like literally the plane. Yeah. Uh, so yeah, I mean, I, so first of all, I had to get my visa. I applied for a visa. Somehow I got one. I don't even know what I said or how I got it, but I got it. And then I went to travel agency and just said I want a ticket to Jemena which is the capital of Chad which is the bordering country the Sudan where all the refugee camps are so you know right and I flew right into Chad yeah I didn't go if you came a different route and then either well I flew through Paris yeah you did yeah yeah I stopped paris it was but that's it i mean

and pretty much just dropped right they dropped us right in and it was funny because everyone on the plane is african you know or of african descent going back to see their family or whatever or there was a a couple people that i could you you could spot them to say i'm like okay that's a guy's a doctor for doctors without borders i mean you can just kind of sense it I show up there in the airport and it's just like culture shock you know what I mean everyone it's a lot of Muslims in the country so everyone's wearing the traditional Muslim attire you know and no one speak in English and it's just like chaos in this tiny little airport if I could you know gravel landing strip or whatever i mean they had to have

it had some blacktop but it was just dirt everywhere i mean it's in the sahara you know was this a small plane no the plane it was a proper plane yeah okay plane i flew into there was uh yeah just it was air france you know okay all right and they just flew in once a day uh from and i think that's the only at the time, that was the only airline from Europe flying in. And they just flew directly into there, into – yeah, Germano is the capital of Chad. Dropped me off. And I knew from my research where these refugee camps were. But I knew they were like a 20-hour drive, two-hour flight.

They were a ways away. You know what I mean? And I have no way of – the only way you can get out of the capital and get out there is to get on a UN plane. So that's like a pretty much impossible task if you don't work for the UN plane or for the UN or an organization or whatever if you're on purpose of being there. So I found out from talking to people when this flight would leave to go out to the camps, I'd find out which guy had the manifest. And I went up to him and just told a big fat lie that I was a doctor with Catholic Relief Services. I was mugged in Paris. I lost all my documentation and paperwork and everything like that.

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And the guy was a local. I mean, and he was like, okay, let me try to figure this out, you know? And I just kind of hung out. Uh, someone didn't show up that was on the manifest and he just put me on the plane and flew me across a little prop, a little UN prop plane just flew. I mean, there was other people on the flight. I was just kind of sitting in the back and just, we just flew across the desert to, to the, where the refugee camps were what was it like when

you when you were walking up to him the guy with the manifesto yeah and you knew that you were going to tell him a lie right now there's nothing there's no big stakes on the line here but you've you've designed it was for me yeah because you not life and death yeah you put yourself like i have to make this happen i'm'm over here. Yeah. If I fail – If I blow this. If I fail and I'm here stuck here for two months in the capital not doing anything, I just don't know what – but I wouldn't have stopped. I would have found a way. I would have hitchhiked across the country if I had to.

Yeah, there you go. I believe that for you. But it's true. I would have. I believe that for you. I would have found a way when you were walking across to speak to him the reason I want to ask this question is because that's a moment that is if you if you blow that moment there's a different trajectory for your life maybe right yeah and so did you know did you have a story in your head did you walk a particular way did you

did you have some inner dialogue that you could teach us about right now? Oh, man. I mean, I knew I had to look confident. You know, so, you know, I don't remember specifically, but I guarantee I walked up there with an idea of how I was going to sound, what I was going to say to him, and how this conversation was going to go. Oh, you did? You know? Oh, definitely. You already worked it out.

Definitely. I had to. Is that like he's letting me on this plane? Right. Is that where you were at? Oh, definitely. There was no, there was no, uh, I didn't have a doubt. I didn't walk up there unsure of myself or, you know, I knew if he, if he sensed, um,

if he sensed any hesitation or, you know, didn't fully trust what I was saying, even though it was a lie, the guy was going to write me off or call the police over or who knows, you know what I mean? Interesting. Just a thread to pull on is that your dad's in a vet of horses. Right. And obviously, you know, that you can't lead a horse if you're scared. No, that's true. Right. And because the horse senses it and the horse isn't going to go anywhere. Right. And obviously, you know that you can't lead a horse if you're scared. No, that's true. Right. And because the horse is sensitive and the horse isn't going to go anywhere.

Right. And so big burly man can't get a big horse to move. And a little child, as long as she's clear with her thoughts, can grab it by the reins and get it to move. So I wonder if you somehow picked up on that from childhood or younger life, the importance of having. Never thought about that. Full connection. Even though you're telling a lie. you were so this is interesting uh i mean i know you have conviction i've noticed that throughout my life you know when you talk to people um especially

when there's something you want like you you always have to it's always smart to sort of honor them first you know what i mean and make them important, even if they may not be, make them feel like whatever they're doing, or even if it's helping you out only that, you know, they're doing something, something bigger, something greater, and it's the right thing to do. You know? And a lot of that is like body language. And, um, yeah, I think that that's probably how, how you know what the horse has sensed the sense these little little tiny uh tiny clues and cues or whatever that we give them body language wise that you know make them feel comfortable or make them feel you know is and i'm also thinking of another nervous like another frame which is like star wars these are not the droids you want

like you walked up and said i'm getting on this plane somehow. Yeah. Yeah. You got on. Yeah. Yeah. It's confidence, but it's, but it's not, there's such a difference between confidence and cockiness, you know?

It's worlds apart. They're totally different. Why do people ask about that question? You get that question often? What's the difference between arrogance or confidence? Yeah, I have. They're worlds apart. No, I, I have. They're worlds apart. No, I don't know.

They're so different. I mean I think arrogance – it's so clear to see when somebody – when it's all about them. You know what I mean? And the whole outcome and the purpose and the reason, the why, the whatever you want to call it, is to serve them and not to serve something higher. And so this is a great example of that because in this situation, I wanted to go over there, but I wanted to be a part of something bigger. I wanted to make a difference, you know,

and it was really for these other people. I wasn't gaining anything, you know, financially. The only thing I would be gaining would be a good feeling in my, you know my stomach that I made a difference. And that would really be it. So I guess in some ways that is selfish. But it's just different. And people respond to that.

People respond to that. People know and understand when, okay, this guy is doing this. Even if it's like a charity thing. That's a good example of things. Because a lot of people have these foundations in their charities and whatever, like pro football players. And you can always, it's so easy to sense the difference between the guy that does it because he wants people to think he's a, he's a good person and he's doing it to keep his name in the, in the papers and whatever. And then the guy that actually gives a damn and is doing it because he cares

about this, this cause, you know what I mean? And it's so easy to- What you're picking up on is part of, like a main thread in your life is alignment. Like if we just think about that word for a minute, that when you align you, we talked about big heart and big horsepower in your mind, when you have alignment with your head and your heart, things take place. Right. Right?

And so here's, this is another part of your, so this isn't framework necessarily, this is skill. Can you line up your head and your heart and then, and then capture this or put some, some rails on it so that you're driving with a particular purpose. Right. And that's what got you on the plane. Yeah. Your head and your heart, when there was a purpose and this person obviously helped you. And that whole, you know, and that's, it's interesting, but that's the most important part of that story to me. I mean I was over there for two months and it was amazing and working at those camps and actually I gained my patriotism over there. Seeing how these people looked up to an American and that I would leave this place and go there to help them.

They loved that and just how a lot of them said they would they would join the american military if they could you know because they think that they know that we're the only country that's going to go when no one else will as much as criticism as we get you know as much as what as much criticism as we get yeah we're still the one if we don't go somewhere when something's going on everyone's like why isn't america helping where are they and then we do go and everyone's like oh get out get out of there. You know, you shouldn't be there. It's just like, okay, I don't know what you want us to do, but at least we're trying. Um, and I never really realized that, you know, and that was, that was something I, I learned over there from

those people, you know, in the way that they were talking about that. And your model before you went was that people across the world don't like americans and it wasn't until you experienced differently could you change your model totally and i think it's really hard for people to change their model from thought just thought without experience right yeah yeah like there's an importance to go be saturated in and in the context and environment somewhere and then that saturation allows the model to shift and And that's why pain is so important. Pain is so important for us to be able to change. And it's going through and maybe you witnessed other people's pain. But sometimes it's feeling our own pain. It's a mistake. I think

it's a flat out mistake to take pain away from people. That's that that's a loaded kind of statement right but help people through pain by being there next to them and helping them make different decisions but don't shelter them from it right that's a problem now yeah no i agree with you and uh i think that was a big part of this journey for me too you know during this whole time there once i got out there you know they were like some of the people were like, oh, you can come stay in this tent. We have a little cot for you and all that stuff. Or I could stay with the other volunteers who were, most of them were local. The other volunteers like me that weren't doctors weren't, I mean, I had no status in that way, except for the fact that I was born in America, which I didn't earn. And so I was like, no,

I want to stay with, I want to stay with these people. And so I slept on a mat like everybody else in that country, you know, the whole time I was there outside under the stars and I loved it, you know, but there was a little bit of physical pain with that. And it was hard to sleep. Sometimes I was hungry a lot because I wasn't, I felt guilty every time I was eating, you know, just seeing these kids and these people that don't, you know, they're eating the little nutrition packets that are given out by, by the UNHCR, you know, and, but I can go over and have some chicken and a meal, you know what I mean? And, and, and I did it sometimes because it was, sometimes you're talking with some of the local villagers and stuff like that. And it's part of the, it's part of that, uh, um, what am I trying to say? It's just building that relationships and rapport and

stuff like that. But otherwise I was like, no, I, I'm not, I'm not going to come here and just like live off, you know, be treated like a King when I don't even deserve to be here helping. I I'm, I'm honored to even have this opportunity to come help and be a part of this. And so, yeah, going through that and living and then that way it it definitely was harder but it made me happier and appreciate it more and really feel connected to those people and that like what i was doing um i don't know i think it made them more proud too to see that they're like wow that's that's really nate this is really cool it was interesting yeah this is but this is really cool. It was interesting. Yeah. This is, but this is

really, this is like, as I'm listening to the commitment that you have to make a difference, it's really cool. Yeah. I, it just makes me happy though. You know, it is, there is selfish, uh, you know, even with what I'm doing now, everything that I'm doing now, I mean, there's still, I still see myself as kind of a selfish person a lot of times. And that's just how people are though. That's how we are though. We can't get away from that. You know, it's human nature. Um, but it's how you're using what you're doing with that. You know, you can still do a lot of good things. And, and I think that that giving and the, you know, the receiving of seeing what the difference that you made make, it makes me feel

better than anything else could than, you know, whatever car i drive or how much money i make or anything like that yeah so so to to fast track through this piece then then you say okay let me sign up for yeah i have let me see if i can take a shot at being a green beret yeah why not join the army um yeah well you know i i came back after those 60 days and it was just like I got back here and immediately I felt that like feeling again because I didn't have a purpose here yet stateside. You know what I mean? But I felt like I had one over there and I was like, gosh, I got to get back over to the third world somehow and, and, and do something. And, um, you know, I started to think about the military, which was something I hadn't thought about since I was in high school. And strictly in high school, it was because it's the adventure. It was not about service for me.

And it wasn't about, cause we weren't going to war. I was just like, Oh, I'll just jump out of planes and blah, blah, blah. And now it was like, I want, I, you know, I have a attachment, I have something attached to this, a purpose attached to it. And so, uh, I'd probably been back a week, maybe two. And I had to take my car in to go get an oil change. And I'm like in the waiting area and there's magazines sitting in front of me, another magazine. And it's like, got this guy in camo, fast roping down this rope on the cover. And I read it and it's like got this guy in camo fast roping down this rope on the cover and i read it and it's talking about the army's new program for special forces you know and special forces have been around green beret has been around since the 60s but uh i kind of flipped through it and

reading it and they were talking about this new program where you could come in off the street with no experience if you made if you met these certain requirements as far as passing you know psych eval scoring a certain level on language aptitude on like a intelligence test and then a physical test um so obviously this is all before you even went in yeah okay so then you obviously lied to get all those past two no i didn't i couldn't lie on those i couldn't lie on those um but yeah your face right now is like what did you yeah i don't know there probably is a way to lie on those but i'm joking all right so so but uh so you're in right you're into it yeah so i went in and i got that so i you know i go off to basic training and i'm not in great shape. I mean, I used to roll my own cigarettes and, you know, probably drank too much. And, you know, like I

said, I weighed about a buck 50, uh, not a good buck 50. Like I wasn't strong. I wasn't, you know, I couldn't run distance wise anyway. And just was, yeah, not the healthiest person in the world, but, uh, I just committed to it. You you know once i got into basic training i was like i'm just gonna go harder than everybody on everything i'm never gonna be outworked and won't let that happen that's the only thing i can control you know what i mean i can't control i'm never gonna be a world-class sprinter right but you know but i can i can control how hard i work every day and how much time i put in and I can be mentally tough or I can earn that and become the most mentally tough person in this, in this world. Maybe, you know what I mean?

Because I think that's the one thing you can really increase where you can't physically, you can't change your muscle fibers, you know, but you can, for whatever reason, I don't know how it works or why, but, but because I've experienced it and know this for a fact, you can completely change the way your brain works and, uh, your belief in yourself. And, and it's just, uh, I put in your, putting yourself through pain, you know, like you said, I mean, that's really what I was doing in basic training. I remember going, whenever we had free time, I'd take myself to the track with my rucksack and I would just do like a mile of lunges or something ridiculous that just seems

impossible. And it was horrible. It hurt. It was awful. But you know, I just keep thinking in my mind, like, what is this for? What am I, what is this going to get me? You know, I'm going to be the most prepared person. Yeah. You were one of the, I don't know, in the middle of fitness maybe, or lower third of fitness. Yeah. At the beginning I'd say lower, lower, lower third. fitness yeah at the beginning i'd say lower lower lower third and then um but maybe maybe possibly at that point the upper five percent of mental fitness right the way you speak to yourself the commitment you have the resolve the ability to say i can do difficult things because you you can back it up you've done difficult things yeah after that trip that trip was that was what that was for me more than anything for me, for me selfish personally was just, I mean, like I came back and I was like, man, like

what I just did. People were just like, I can't believe you did that. And hearing people say those things, I was like, wow, that was pretty incredible. I mean, I, I can do anything. So yeah, it's that statement. I can do anything, but it's not based in, you're not delusional. It's there's something. So this is, no, I believe that. Yeah. But this is, so this is, we're talking about self-talk obviously,

right? So self-talk that is back that you can back up and then it becomes hardened and then it becomes real. And so if you want to be able to explore potential with this thread right here that we're talking about is radical, which is talk to yourself a certain way, but back it up. Yeah. You can't be delusional now right because you're gonna keep now there's a there's a difference though in just saying things to hear yourself say them or to try to trick your brain into believing them it doesn't does it work for you it doesn't work for me no no no no i have to actually believe that you can only actually believe that through those experiences and through putting yourself

right putting yourself out there and trying things and giving yourself a challenge or something you think you can't do. It's something like this. Like, okay, I did A and B, and I'm looking to see if I could do C. I haven't done C yet, but if I did A and B, I might be able to do C. Right. Okay. Let's go. Let's give it a shot.

Right. Okay. Yeah. And it had to be like that that that whole africa thing there's no question there was doubt in my mind yeah you know in the back of my mind that i am i going to be able to complete this am i going to be able to do this but you know i was just piecing it one piece at a time like oh i can do this i'll make this happen and then i get to that point and it's just like okay the next step is that i could probably make that

happen you know and i just would make it happen. And I just would make it happen. And then it just like snowballs. And that's the same thing with going through, we call it the Special Forces Qualification Course. Once I got through basic, I started that training. How long was that training? Just give us a quick snap. It's about a year and a half. From when I joined the Army to when I got my Green Berets, about a year and a half.

And there's several phases you go through. And, uh, I mean, it's a whole nother podcast to talk about all the, you know, stuff in the mill in, in, uh, you know, that time in the military and all that. But I mean, I'll take you up on that. That, that would be, I think that would be, yeah. I think that's really important. Yeah. It's really, it's interesting. But yeah, the, uh, but I mean that, you know, just to go over that briefly, you know, going

through selection was, uh, it's a month long and it's like, I can't get into the details because of papers that I've signed, but it's basically, you've got a big rucksack on your back, uh, and you're land navigating miles and miles a day. And a lot of it's completely on your own, you know, so you got nothing but your thoughts and, uh, your injuries that are your friends, you know what I mean? That's so good. Yeah. But that's really it. I mean, it's just – and so, man, you could literally see people psyching themselves out in their faces. And then after a day of finishing something, like you just said, you can go one of two ways with it.

Coming out of the tunnel. Finishing something and they're just like – their body is destroyed And they're just like, I can't do this again. Or you can say, you just finished that your body's destroyed. Like I, but I made it, you know what I mean? But I survived and tomorrow's going to be the same thing. I just did it yesterday. I can do it tomorrow. You know, and I know my body hurts, but, uh, I don't even know what my body's capable of you know what i mean why would i put these limits on myself um that people have done this before i'm not the first when when so right now your face is lit up as you talk like you are you feeling like just that little that little vibe about like man yeah you feel it i don't know what the medical term is but you right now you feel a

rush in your body you know you feel your, you sense it through your whole, through your whole, from the core, it starts at the core and it just kind of spreads out through your body. And it's like, that's alive, I guess. That's what it feels like to me. I mean, that's what I translate. That is, I don't know what it is. It's, I'm sure there's, you know, you're a doctor. I'm sure, you know, all the little, what those things are and what they mean. Um, and you know, I took psychology for a are and what they mean um you know i took psychology for a semester in college but i didn't really pay too much attention uh i was so focused on on football and you know i would go back and deploy every summer i was playing too so it's

those were my from my head was that a lot of those classes unfortunately it's amazing that um you're one of your one of your greatest assets is your mind and you've been figuring this out for a long time right so let's let's drive your greatest asset well it mind. And you've been figuring this out for a long time. It is your greatest asset. Well, it's yours. It's not everybody's. Well, it should be. You and I are going to nod our heads to that.

And if we can maybe help people understand how to train it and to capture how powerful and amazing it is. But it runs wild. And our brains are designed to scan the world for danger, right? Not necessarily for optimization. Right. And until we can train our minds to do that, you know, uh, it's a whole different game. Yeah. Okay. How about, how about this? Um, is there a phrase, one phrase that guides your life? Man, I don't know if there's one phrase, um, necessarily, but I, I, I came, I became accustomed to little buzzwords. I remember, uh, when I was going through, like going through selection or

something like that, where I just feel, I mean, you know, the, that little voice in your head pops up with, you know, the bad words like quit and you can't and all this stuff. Um, but I used to, I used to, I remember one time I was going on this long, long run, uh, in, you know, in the Hills in North Carolina and it was part of the training and, and how my body started to slow. I felt myself slowing down and like, I was just like, Oh no. Oh, you know? And then I just would start to like, it was almost like a chant in my mind of just saying like, push it, push it, push it, you know? And then it just became push it real. Yeah. Kind of. But then it just became all of a sudden just that, that positive self talk or whatever it was all of a sudden, like I literally felt almost numb to all that pain. Like it just kind of went away and I felt myself picking speed back up, you know, and, uh, and, and it's hard to describe, but, uh, little things like that.

I mean, that's, uh, would you say that that's part of the phrase that guides your life? Like, yeah, I think so. You know, push limits, push. Yes. And just, and I know, like I said, it's a lot of words. Like I always, I seek or pursue, both of those words, because it doesn't just mean try to learn about it or explore it. It means get involved and physically take yourself to that place and go do something. And then the limitation thing. I just said it a little bit ago, don't, you know, people that putting limitations on yourself, you know, that's just, are you really aware of your inner dialogue? Like you're, you really, um, you have a probably, yeah, maybe too aware sometimes because I know like in conversation sometime and I haven't

done it too bad today, but sometimes I get so jumbled because I have all these things that I want to say, you know, coming into my head at once. And it's all these great thoughts, a lot of times and great ideas. And it's hard for me to verbalize them. They're great. According to you, according to me, but I know they are, you know? Yeah. Well, when they're true and they're honest, then they obviously, but what do you do with the thoughts? I think you call them negative or bad. Like when, uh, it's a thought that you know is going to get in your way. Right. What do you do to get out of that? I mean, I just, I, I, I just, I know that it's me doing that. So I have control of that. You know what I mean? I know that that's not something else. I mean, so that's back to your framework. I actually, I actually am a faith. I have faith.

You know, I do, I do believe in God. I don't know exactly what's right. You know, so a lot of people that have that will say, oh, that's the devil. That's the devil. And I'm just like, no, that's me. That's me saying those bad things, those negative things. That's me just, just, just, you know, kind of arguing with myself, I guess, or trying to convince myself that, you know, maybe my body needs a rest right now. Or maybe, and sometimes that makes sense when you're dealing with your health or whatever. But, um, when I'm trying to accomplish something, when I have a goal, uh, and something big that I want to do, and I have those little thoughts, I'm just like, that's none of that's real. That's all, that's all just my mind, you know,

messing with me. And, uh, so it's, it's easy for me to just shut that out because, you know, if I listen to that thing, what's going to bother me more, it's going to be the regret that I didn't go after that because I let that voice in my head, talk me out of it. That's not even a real voice, you know, it's not even a real, it's, but your voice it's it's okay yeah that's i guess that's a hard thing to conceptualize but it's not somebody else's voice right it's not an it's not an actual environmental factor you know right you know if there's a brick wall literally in front of me i'm gonna have to go around the brick wall or grab something and bang through it but in my

mind we can erase the brick wall you can erase the brick wall. You can erase the brick wall. It's like a dream. You know what I mean? Touch it and it moves. You could do whatever you want. This is the power. I find myself laughing at those things a lot. There you go. You know, the first step is to be aware of it though. That's the first step is to be aware of the inner dialogue. And then the second step is to be able to guide. It's not like step one, two, three, four, but those are the two main components. Right. Right. Do you have a practice to become more aware of your thoughts? Do you do anything? What, what increased your awareness for this? You know, my, some of my greatest thoughts have happened, have occurred when I've been

in the gym, when I've been working out and I work out by myself. That's my thing. I love to go by myself alone. And that's sort of when a lot of that stuff does happen. So I've always actually kind of wondered that maybe you have a good answer to this, but when I'm putting my body through a physical stress, my brain activates in a way that doesn't normally, you know what I mean? And it comes all of a sudden, I'm like, bang, bang, like these new thoughts. Like, you know, the thing I'm going to talk about real

quick is, you know, the new thing that I want to do, I want to, I'm going to go, I'm like, bang, bang, like these new thoughts. Like, you know, the thing I'm going to talk about real quick is, you know, the new thing that I want to do. I want to, I'm going to go, I'm taking a wounded vet, single leg amputee, and we're going to go climb Kilimanjaro together. And we're going to do it to raise money for clean water wells. And, and somebody, somebody reached out to me and said, hey, can you help me? I have this project. You know, he's an NFL player, Chris Long for the Rams. He has a, it's called waterboys.org. And he has this project and he's like,'m trying to get these clean water you know wells dug and i'm

enrolling nfl players and listing them to help me out and you know they're involved but not you know i i thought maybe you had a good idea or something i was like um like what do you see me doing and he didn't know and i was like i i don't really know i'll think about it you know and i remember being in the gym and i'm like grinding i I remember just my legs burning. And I thought, started thinking about back when I used to have to climb these mountains going through special forces training, you know, or being in Afghanistan, you know, and thinking about that. And then I was like, thinking about, man, Kilimanjaro, that's over in Tanzania where these clean water wells are. I should do that, you know? And I was like, but that'll be too easy. You know, I can, I know I can do that. I could do that tomorrow if I had

to, I'm like, I need to make this, you know, and then all of a sudden I'm training and I'm thinking about some of the guys I met at this gym that are wounded vets, you know, and a guy, you know, guys that are missing, missing legs. And I'm like, that's it. You know, I'm going to go with a guy like that, you know, and no matter what, we're going to make it to the top. We're going to find a way. Yeah. And I mean, that's, that's just how that started. It all happened in a matter of minutes. And I called Chris and said, this is what we're going to do.

And boom, now we're doing it. What a cool connection you made to the NFL. Yeah. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Yeah. So the football, I mean, the football thing, I'll go back to the story. I started with it walking into OU, you know, I mean, football happened for me the same way that Special Forces happened.

I picked the most difficult, what I thought were one of the most difficult teams to make at a very competitive sport, one that I'd never even played before. And I'm just like, I did this, though, so I can do that. I did A and B. I did A and B. Here, here, come see. And so I can do that. I did A and B. I did A and B. Come see. Yeah. And so I did. And I remember, yeah, my senior year walking in that stadium to a game we would eventually lose. Um, but the, the greatest memory I have is after the game, you know, we came back from this huge deficit.

We, we actually dominated the line of scrimmage, just made the mistakes. We gave up a kick return touchdown. We threw a couple of pick sixes. So we, we beat the crap out of them and lost on the scoreboard, you know? And, uh, and so I'm just like, you know, it's my senior year and we just lost to, you know, we lost our biggest rival and you know, it's crushing. And I stopped and I kind of look around the stadium and all the Texas fans are still there and all the OU fans are gone. And there's a few of them in there because they know they just got whooped. You know, they came in there ranked number, whatever, 10 in the country. And we, we were like 500 unranked. You know, everyone said, well, they're OU is going to beat him by four touchdowns.

And I'm looking around and just like the fan, all the fans started chanting the Texas fight, you know, and like cheering for us while OU is on the middle of the field all the fans started chanting the Texas fight you know and like cheering for us while I'll use on the middle of the field with the golden hat and their flag yeah all of us started getting emotional kind because it was just like wow you know if it's one of those things where even sometimes when you fail that talking about that journey and you're looking around and seeing though what you did you know and the difference you make some of the effects maybe you didn't win on the scoreboard you know it's like isn't it amazing to have a family yeah yeah like and what that means is maybe they're blood or not

but it's the idea that we've got your back right you know like we love we love supporting you yeah we love what you stand for we're part of it. Go for it. And they loved watching that three hour journey that we took them on and we didn't even reach the destination we set out to reach. But I mean, that's what, you know what I mean? I mean, they just, they were just so proud of us. You know what I mean? And so like that was another step in my life realizing that, you know, it's not always going to turn out the way you want it to. And it's like we talked about at the beginning it doesn't even matter where you wind up though it's it's it's it's what you're doing you know right now that process and enjoying that process you know and I

mean that was I mean that was a fun game I had a blast but just that scene that different result that I never would have suspected seeing and I guarantee not one fan in that stadium was thinking that before the game too. If we lose, we're going to be here chanting Texas fight. Right. It happened. But it happened. So I'd say I'd add one thing to this

is wherever you are, be in that process. But the second part that you're teaching us is line up your mission. Have some purpose and direction. And it's not too old. No, ever. Ever. Right?

It's not too old. I'm going it's not i'm gonna do this and live this way till i die that's right so because if i don't i'm dead already you know i mean that's uh this is what makes me feel alive and this is what this is that feeling i got the first time i went to africa is the same feeling i have now you know in this room talking to you because now my mom's starting to jump around about you know what, what am I going to do next? And it's just exciting to have that. But so you've got this nice blend between being able to capture the future of what's exciting, but being present here now in it, whatever it is. So it's not like you're thinking past Kilimanjaro. No, you're actually here now in this conversation. And then when you're at Kilimanjaro, you're going to be there too.

Right. And then, and then when the timing is right, you seem to be able to pick where the direction you're going to go and then take the shot and take a risk to go for it. Yeah. We have in the army, we have, yeah, we have targets. Uh, we've, we sit on a range and we have 25 meter targets and 300 meter targets, you know what I mean? And so obviously the easy ones to hit are the 25 meter targets, you know, but the 300 meter target in that back, you know, when that one pops up, if it's, if it's the right timing and you've kind of got it already in your sights, you know, then it's the time to pull the trigger on that one. But those 25 meter ones, you should be knocking every single one of those ones out, you know what I mean? That's cool. Because they will lead you to be

prepared for that long one. Yeah. So can we do this? Can we press pause right now? Yeah. And then can we fire back up the entire journey and then dive deeper into your framework on the second half of this? So pick up on Green Beret, pick up at – and then thread it through the Seahawks and then kind of the next journey. Right. I'd like to unravel this a little bit. I know that both of us were on a tight schedule today. Yeah.

Yeah. This was a good, we've been here about an hour, I think. I know. Yeah. I know. I can't help myself. Like I keep promising people that like, you know, 45 minutes and I want it, but then I, I just get sucked in.

And so I get sucked into, I mean, cause I, cause I just about what the future may hold. sucked in too i mean because i because i just about what the future may hold you know what i mean yeah because it's so it's so uh uh it's just the unknown is so exciting to me i love that where where can we learn more about what you're doing with kilimanjaro we're gonna have uh our our specific page up on the water boys.org site. The mission is called conquering Kelly that we're doing and spell it. Uh, conquering, uh, and then Kelly's just K I L I it's short for killing.

Yeah. And, uh, yeah, yeah. We'll have a link set up and a way to donate, you know, all the money is going towards clean water wells in Tanzania.

So they can donate. Yeah. We can donate on that. Yep. And then, um, are you on social media? Uh, yes. Uh. Nate Boyer, 37 at Nate Boyer, 37 on Twitter. B O Y E R 37. Uh, where, where else can people find you? I have a website, nateboyer.com. Okay. Yeah. You can reach out to me that way as well. Okay. So we'll do, we'll do all of that. And then, um,

my hope is that people will, go to the site ping me on social media when when the site is up and when people can uh make pull some money out of their pocket and support you and donate and get that rolling and then uh let's schedule up a time to go deeper perfect all right brother thanks nate thank you Thanks, Nate. Thank you. All right. Thank you so much for diving into another episode of Finding Mastery with us. Our team loves creating this podcast and sharing these conversations with you. We really appreciate you being part of this community. And if you're enjoying the show, the easiest no-cost way to support is to

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