Finding Mastery with Dr. Michael Gervais - NFL QB Drew Bledsoe on Being a Life Student, Entrepreneurship, Wine

Episode Date: October 25, 2016

Drew Bledsoe was a star quarterback at Washington State University before he skipped his senior year to go professional. In 1993, he was the No. 1 NFL draft pick and joined the New England Patriots. After nearly eight years he was traded to the Buffalo Bills, then moved to the Dallas Cowboys, before retiring in 2007. Post NFL, Bledsoe pursued a longtime aspiration of owning a winery, which would allow him to combine his passion for fine wine and love of the Walla Walla Valley. In This Episode: -How his parents fueled his curiosity growing up -Why public speaking was the most important class he ever took -The moment where his mentality on going for it changed forever -Why a strong family structure allowed him to not be afraid of failure -Why football was never on the list of his top 3 goals -Putting an emphasis on the minutia on and off field -The most important interview question he asks -How he dealt with losing his job to Tom Brady -Leadership in understanding when people needed a hug vs. the whip -Visualization leading to confidence -Comparing his situation to Dak Prescott & Tony Romo -Embracing pressure rather than seeing it as negative_________________Subscribe to our Youtube Channel for more powerful conversations at the intersection of high performance, leadership, and meaning: https://www.youtube.com/c/FindingMasteryGet exclusive discounts and support our amazing sponsors! Go to: https://findingmastery.com/sponsors/Subscribe to the Finding Mastery newsletter for weekly high performance insights: https://www.findingmastery.com/newsletter Download Dr. Mike's Morning Mindset Routine! https://www.findingmastery.com/morningmindsetFollow us on Instagram, LinkedIn, and X.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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a long time and then had a short role with Buffalo Bills and the Dallas Cowboys. And the reason that I was so excited to talk to Drew was because he really understands the process of transition. And if we think about the importance of transition, transition from thoughts, transitions from roles, transitions from life events, and he's done it phenomenal, phenomenally. He's done it exceptionally well twice. And both of them are on the world stage. So he has a great point of view about this process. So the first transition he had was from the NFL into entrepreneurship. And I don't know, I think it's widely accepted that 78 to 80% of people that play in the NFL have a really hard time in transition. Within two years, they are broke, divorced, or both. And it's really a tough

process. So we get into the weeds a little bit about the transition from the love and passion of your first career into a second. And then the other transition process that he understands really well is he was the number one draft pick in the NFL. The guy that was on the world stage and he was, had phenomenal success early in his career. And then he got hurt and he got hurt and he lost his starting position as the quarterback to Tom Brady. So we talk about that transition as well.

And we go into the weeds in the conversation about how he thinks about goals and how none of his goals, even as a youngster, and again, becoming the number one recruit into the NFL, had to do with football. So that's really a phenomenal thought. We talk about how his family and his dad in particular helped cultivate a particular mindset for him and how embracing pressure rather than seeing it as a negative has been a constant throughout his life. So I'm excited to have this conversation. There's lots to learn in here about transition. We will all be in transition at some point in our life. And with that, the timeliness of this conversation is so important to me. And I just lost my grandmother, who is a love of my life and a phenomenal woman.

And I'm going to dedicate this conversation to Geraldine Jaritana. And as she now is transitioning into another phase of her life that none of us listening have had the fortune to understand completely. So with that, let's jump right into this conversation with Drew Bledsoe. Drew, how are you today? I'm doing great, Mike. Good to talk to you, man. Yeah, for sure. Looking forward to this conversation because you've mastered something that I think is really important, which is the transitions from being one of the best in the world at your craft, the thing you dedicated so much of your time to, and then being able to transition that into entrepreneurship.

I'm really excited to be able to learn from you today. has taken about 10 steps too far. Because the one thing that I've learned above all else is that the minute you think you know what you're doing, then you're really screwed because you're going to find out very quickly that you don't. But the transition has been great. Okay, so you wouldn't know this, but so many people that have been in these conversations with me that are one of the best in the world at what they do have that streak of humility embedded in their responses. Have you always had that, or do you have that now when you're looking back at everything that you have accomplished? You know, I think I've always been very curious. And if you're curious, almost by definition,

you're admitting that you don't know everything. And, you know, for me, just that opportunity to continue to learn, hopefully for the rest of my life, is one of the things that is most exciting to me. The most annoying people in the world are the people that you're around that claim to know it all. Because they very evidently, very obviously don't. And I can't get out of those conversations fast enough. So where did you learn that?

Did that come early on from your family structure, that curiosity? Or where did you first find value and curiosity? My parents were both school teachers. And so education was around me forever. And I think they instilled in me and my brother growing up just with conversations that we had and excitement about learning new stuff and trying to learn more about the world we live in. And, you know, in general and then just the specific things, just the things that we talked about, you know, around the dinner table and in the house and in the car. You know, there was kind of a spirit of, you know, of curiosity that I think still lives with both of us. Okay.

So each parent was a teacher. What did they teach? A little bit of everything. My mom taught middle school, primarily English in middle school. I had both of them for teachers as I was coming through, which having your mom teach school at your school when you're in eighth grade is a little bit difficult. It's a pretty fragile time.

Mom knew everything that was going on in my life sometimes before I did. And then my dad taught everything from math to history. But the course that I had him for that I think was probably the most valuable class I ever took in all of my formal education was public speaking. And not simply because he taught you how to get over your fear of standing up and talking in front of people, but really taught me how to organize my thoughts when I was getting ready to write something or talk about something. Ooh, okay.

So public speaking is one of the great fears for most people. Yeah. And then what is at stake for public speaking is our image or what people think of us, right? Sure. So how have you organized your approach to public speaking? Of course, I want to hear both sides, like the preparation side of how to organize your thoughts and then also the presentation side. The organization side, and this is something that I use in pretty much anything that I'm going to write

or talk about, it's really, like most things, when you boil it down, it's quite simple. And generally what I'll see, what he taught was, you just come up with three points, three main points that you want to talk about. You have a hook at the beginning. You know, when I'm speaking in public, I always skip the thank you for having me. I want to, you know, it's such a great honor, all that stuff. All that stuff should be implied and understood that you're happy to be there. So you skip that and you get right into whatever you can.

That's a hook to get somebody to get people interested in a man, emotionally invested in what you're talking about. Then you tell them the three things you're going to tell them. And then you dive into those three things. Then you wrap it up and you tell them those three things again after you finished. And then you come up with hopefully, you know hopefully something that ties it all together for a conclusion. And if you just organize it like that, the one that I felt like for me was the most successful opportunity that I had to use that technique.

I was at an event in Boston where they were honoring Robert Kraft, the owner of the Patriots. And I'm sitting up at the head table and somehow it had not been communicated to me that I was the one introducing Mr. Kraft. And I didn't discover that I was the one introducing the owner, the guy that signs my check And I didn't discover, I didn't discover that I was the one introducing the owner, the guy that signs my check. I didn't, I didn't discover that I was the one introducing him until they were introducing me. And so I'm sitting there, I had, I had probably 25 seconds to come up with a speech to introduce the owner of the Patriots.

And I was able to pull it off. I was like, okay, three things. Boom, boom, boom. So you had a framework that you could go to, which is the three things and the hook. Okay. Now, did your heart start pounding in that moment? Or, like, I want to learn about how you do quote-unquote pressure. Or does your heart pound and you feel that thing in your stomach

and the body temperature heats up? Or do you go into some sort of different mode? Because most people, they immediately go into that fight-flight, you know, I need to start working to get calm. Sure. Yeah, it's an interesting thing. In that moment, you know, there was an immediate shot of adrenaline, of course. But then, you know but then it was like okay well how am i going to pull this off and immediately got into you know got into

how i was going to do it not oh my god i can't believe i have to do this like okay how am i going to do this and um you know formulate a plan and pull this thing off and and uh you know it's a it's a two-minute drive you know you gotta you gotta make the play and and and you just you know you just you just do that and you either um you know in my opinion you either you either embrace and enjoy those those moments or you're terrified of them and and i happen to embrace and enjoy those have you always wanted to embrace moments where you're tested moments of challenge is that something you learned early or did you struggle through that in any way yeah got a really good i've got a good story for you and it was uh it was pretty pivotal in my life and it was a pretty small

moment uh but when i was a a freshman in high school um i was actually a ninth grader i guess we didn't we had we had junior high so we high school didn't was actually a ninth grader, I guess. We had junior high, so high school didn't start until 10th grade. I was at a football camp with a bunch of the older players, and there was a moment where they were like, hey, get in. They wanted to put me in with the old guy offense. It seems like such a small moment, but it changed, it changed my, uh, it changed my approach. Um, they're like, Hey, get in there. And I'm like, no, I don't, I don't want it.

I don't want to, I don't want to get in there. No, get it. You know, come on. Hey, Drew, come on. Come get in. No, I don't want it. I'm not, I'm not going in. I'm not going in there.

I'm not getting in with those guys. Too scared. You know, those, those, those are high school seniors and I'm a ninth grader. And I didn't do it. And it was kind of emotional for me. And so I got on my bicycle to ride home. And I remember, I think I was crying a little bit because I was just kind of embarrassed that I didn't jump in and do it. And I remember swearing to myself at that exact time that I would never miss one of those opportunities again. I would never not do it again.

Yeah. Okay. So my hair right now is standing up because for me, those same exact experiences of feeling small, that's how I've – I don't know if that's how you would capture it, like feeling small. It's really being scared, right? Yeah, sure. To refuse to be and to feel that again I think is really important. But I don't know about you. It sounds like it, but I needed that pain in my life. Yeah, yeah, right.

Okay. Yeah, sure. Yeah. So I was like, okay, I'm never, you know, I just remember thinking at that point, like, okay, you know, and the, you know, and the, you know, I mean, all those, all those fears are obvious that probably everybody experiences it multiple times in their life. And it's the fear of failure. It's like, okay, I'm not going to go in there because the risk is too big.

What if I don't do well in front of these guys that I kind of idolize? But I just swore at that point, and I don't know that I completely understood what it was, but I wasn't going to be afraid of failure again, and I was going to throw myself in. For you, do you remember back when you're a high schooler in a freshman in particular when was it a fear of looking bad or in football it's fear there can be the fear of getting hurt was it no it wasn't a fear of getting hurt this was just this was summertime this was no pads you know it was it was this was just you know it was you know when you're when you're you know, the young kid and you're looking at these high school football players, you know, they might as well be NFL players. And I mean, there's so much bigger and, uh, that that um you know that I wasn't gonna miss

those opportunities ever again if I had a chance to go do something um you know and then you know the thing the thing you ultimately realize is that you know you go into something that's way over your skis and you fail at it yeah not that big a deal you learn from and you move on but when you're when until you recognize that that that, that trying something that's way outside your comfort zone and failing at it, that failure can ultimately't know, somehow you took the concept that we hear people talk about all the time, you know, move outside your comfort zone. Sure. But very few people, I think, actually do it. And when they don't do it, feel the pain and discomfort that compels them to want to do it again. So how did you learn that?

I don't know. I think one of the great advantages that I have had my entire life is that when I went home, I had this great place to go to, you know, I didn't have, um, didn't come home to a dad, even though he was a football coach. I didn't come home to a dad that wanted to break down and critique every play that I made in the game. He just wanted to come home and it was a good game. He gave me a hug. It was bad game. He gave me a hug and we'd go have dinner, you know?

So, so I had that great luxury of, um, knowing that I had a safe place to go to afterwards. And so that made the, the, the accomplished accomplishments of the day or the events of the day, whether they were positive or negative, made them okay. And I didn't have to go have my whole self-worth tied up in whether or not I threw a touchdown or an interception that day. Okay, I think this is going to show up later in our conversation because having an intact identity, you know, during those young years, we're trying to figure out who we are between 13 and 20, 21 in that range. And it sounds like you didn't foreclose your identity to say,

I am just an athlete. Sure. Yeah, that's, that's, that's extremely true. And that's something that, that, that, you know, dad really did teach really did teach me from a young age when he would do a lot of speaking on goal setting and motivation. And one of the things that he taught was to be very, very careful when you're setting goals for yourself, to be very, very careful what you put at the top of that list because there's a pretty good chance that if you put things at the very top of your goals and aspirations list, there's a good chance you're going to get them. But if you're not careful with what's at the very top of that list, you can sacrifice other things that may ultimately be more important. And so I learned that very early on.

And when I would put those lists together um you know football was did um it never made the top three about that well and and um well wait wait wait wait that's phenomenal because you were number one draft pick when you came out and i think it was 1993 sure so you were the best in the country at that point as potential picks, which is, I mean, I don't know if people can really appreciate just how freaking hard that is. Like that's a really difficult thing to do. So it was never one of your top three goals to become one of the best

in the league or best in college or to be a number one pick. Sure. You know, but the, the, so the, the things that were at the top of that list where, you know, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a good friend.

I'm a, I'm ultimately a good husband, good parent, good son. Um, um, I have, you know,

there were things on that list at different times. Like I have great work ethic. Um, you know, I, I show up early and leave late. So, you know,

the, the, the, the goals that I set, um, we're, you know, the ability to play football. But they weren't tied to results. They were tied to, you know personal values and and um and ultimately those things are things that allowed me to be successful as a football player but the but the be successful at football component of it was um that was a that was a result but it wasn't always necessarily

you know the goal the goal was was it was far more personal and character-driven and value-driven than the ultimate goal. What a gift. Oh, my God. It truly was. I know this is where we'll go with this conversation, but the fact that I was taught that and understood that at a young age and going through the amazing experience of playing professional football ultimately allowed me, when I made that transition out of ball and into, I'll call it real life, not very much changed because the football part of it was not the main part of it. The football part of it was a much smaller part of it

in kind of the paradigm of how I viewed myself in the world. So dad somehow, I don't know if he studied it or he knew the science of psychology to be able to appropriately design goal setting. And so many people, when they think goal setting, they just list outcome. Be number one at this, be world class at that, whatever, whatever. And dad put you in control by having you focus on controllables, right? So with that in mind, did you ever get, did you ever have moments of confrontation in high school or college where other people were saying, I want to be the number one draft pick, or I want to earn a million dollars or whatever it might be. And you're like, maybe I should be thinking that. Did you ever have that tension between how other people were

thinking versus something that you were doing that was very different? No, not really. I think there were some frustrating times for me where there was a disconnect between what I was actually doing on the field and how it was perceived outside of the media or public perception. Um, so there were some frustrating times where, um, you know, times where, um, and it worked both ways. Obviously the second way wasn't as frustrating, but, um, there were times when I was actually playing pretty good football and we

weren't winning. And, and, uh, the perception was, you you know what's wrong with blood so i'm like well you know i'm actually playing pretty damn good football um we're just not winning football games um and uh so that that was there was a frustration there with that disconnect um but i was still able to acknowledge like hey you know my part of it i'm doing i'm doing fairly well um and then there you know there were other times where, you know, quite honestly, I come out of a game like, man, I didn't play very well today, but we won the game. And, uh, so I was kind of put up there in a, in a pedestal and that, that, that created a kind of a different kind of tension or a different kind of frustration. Like, yeah, no, I was really pretty shitty today, but, uh, but, uh, you know, team around me played

great and we picked off two passes and ran the ball really well and and uh um so but you know i i think that again you know um because i analyzed it internally instead of externally i was able to look at it and say okay this is the truth about how i'm playing um and uh even if we won i gotta get better or if we lost you know and I played fairly well, like, okay, well, I can acknowledge that I played fairly well, even though it didn't have the desired outcome. I love it. And did you have very specific goals? I don't know if you wrote them down or not while you're playing, or was it more like a mental checklist of the things

that you knew you needed to be able to do to be successful? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there were, there were, um, um, there were a number of, there were a number of things. Um, and I didn't, you know, some of these, some of these things I did write down a lot of them. I didn't, a lot of them were a lot of them I had written down when I was, when I was younger. So, um, just, they were ingrained. Um, but you know, from a leadership standpoint, um, I always felt like I needed to be the first one in last one out, you know, whenever people showed one out. Whenever people showed up in the parking lot, when the teammates showed up, they needed to see my car there. And then when they left to go home, they needed to see my car there. Now sometimes I felt comfortable.

I had it up and done. I'd come in early and then I'd just go have a cup of coffee and read the paper. But it was important that my car was there first. So from a leadership standpoint, there were things like that. And it was also playing through pain and injury. It's just like, hey, I can't go ask my left tackle, who does much more difficult and physical work than I do. I can't ask him to show up for practice when he's banged up.

If I've got fibers and I can't go and I'm just playing quarterback. So some of those kinds of things I think are fairly simple and straightforward. But then beyond that, playing the position of quarterback in the NFL, a very small percentage of it. I don't even know how to quantify it, but probably 5% to 10% of it of the job has to do with making a spectacular throw or a spectacular play here and there. That's an important 5% or 10% that can ultimately win or lose a ballgame. But the other 90% to 95% of it

is making sure you do the mundane details correctly and making sure you hand the ball off properly and carry out your play fake. Make sure that you take the proper footwork. Make sure that you make the right check to get your team into an advantageous play. Make sure you're looking in the right place. And so it's the discipline of doing the minutiae right. That was not what got me drafted number one overall, but ultimately in terms of playing the position well, that was the most important part.

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yourself, Felix Gray is offering all Finding Mastery listeners 20% off. Just head to felixgray.com and use the code findingmastery20 at checkout. Again, that's Felix Gray. You spell it F-E-L-I-X G-R-A-Y.com and use the code findingmastery20 at felixgray.com for 20 off would you using that model that's like a model that you have incorporated to be successful in football which is be ready and prepared to make the exceptional thing take place or to be part of that and also do really well the mundane is that the same model that you use as an entrepreneur? You know, it is. And one of the things that I've discovered in business, and particularly

in the wine business, but it probably would be true in any business, is that a lot of the minutiae I'm not very good at. You know, some of the just the handling the ultra mundane bookkeeping and, you know, small little details and all those things I'm not particularly good at in business. It just it's not very interesting to me. And and so I've made sure that I hire that and I hire people to do that. Um, because if I had to make sure that we sent every last, uh, form and check to every state where we try to sell wine, uh, something would fall through

the cracks and we'd lose our license in that state. I just, I wouldn't do it, but I've got to, I've got, so I've made sure that we've been at people in place to do that. But those small things are far more important in business than the big things, the big events that we do. Now, the big events matter. It's the big marketing events, and that's where I've got to get up and be the star of the show and do that stuff. Um, but without all of the, um, you know, the, the minutia and the little details being handled properly, um, our business wouldn't function. And, you know, as, uh, you know, we may dive into this deeper later, but it was really important to me in starting, um, our, our wine business that had become a real business. Um, this was not, uh, an endeavor where I wanted to slap my name on a bottle of wine

and have just the vanity of having my own winery. I actually have intended all along to make a good business out of this thing. And so when you do that, then all of those little details, the very last detail of what our bottle looks like on the table um the uh the final cuts and all of our blending trials uh the the packaging and you know on our you know our boxes that this stuff arrives in right down to the sticker that closes the box all of those little details and then all of the the business minutiae of making sure everything is handled correctly.

Everything matters when you want to be successful as a business. Say that again. What do you mean everything matters? Because a lot of people might think that the big plays matter. Anyone that knows me would know that I don't think there's any such thing as a big moment. But I think that every moment is the only moment we get. So this moment matters as much as any other moment. And you say everything matters. What does that mean to you? Every interaction that we have with a customer

matters. And our team is fantastic. Anybody that, uh, that has any interaction with double back, whether that's on the phone at the tasting room with me, you know, out in the, um, you know, out in the community. And we have some, some systems in place for how we, you know, keep track of, um, who's interacted with us before. So we can prep for those meetings and understand, you know, um, you know, you, hey, Mike, it's great to see you. I remember we met back at, you know, XY and, you know, how are you liking that 2010 Cabby Bot? You know, and then we, you know, in our tasting room, for example, we do tastings by appointment, so it's never crowded and we know who's coming and and we can prep for that um you know when um when uh

when inevitably we make we make a mistake you know ship somebody the wrong um you know the wrong vintage or or something arrives late um you know we're on the phone with them immediately fixing the problem usually at our cost um do you know when we oh sorry sorry when do you hire for people that are grounded and able to be present in challenging moments or do you train them on how to be present so that they can capture the relationships and the conversations and doing the right thing um according to both business and relationship? It's both. You know, it's both. You know, one thing that I noticed,

that I've noticed with our team after the fact, after we had hired and put together the team, I was just talking with Josh, who's our general manager the other day. Everybody that we have on our team, uh, is an athlete at some level and played a team sport. Um, and that was not part of the interview process. Um, but, um, but it is something that, that ultimately we look for people that understand what it's like to be a part of a team. They understand sacrifice. They understand teamwork. They understand empowering their teammates. They understand all of those things. Probably the most important question I ever ask in an interview process is, what have you failed at?

That's the most important answer somebody will will give me an interview process is what have you failed at? Cause that ultimately should lead to, and what I learned was, um, and, and, um, um, you know, when you do that and you're, you're talking to an athlete, ultimately they've generally had some pretty catastrophic failures in athletics or in business. And if they answer that question and somehow don't follow up with what I learned was and this is what I changed, then they're probably not going to get the job. And if they claim that they've never really failed at anything, they're definitely not getting the job because they're either lying or the luckiest person alive. And, you know, if somebody has never failed at something, then I don't want their first failure to be when they work for me. I love that. And or they have never really gone for it.

They've always played. Sure. Yeah, no, exactly. So what we talked about earlier, if you never failed at anything, that means you've never really probably risked anything. That's right. What do you think the biggest risk is for people? Maybe just talk about yourself. What is the biggest risk for you? In general or just in business? Let's just use business as a way to capture it.

In business, because we've always intended to uh to build a real business which means make money um the the ultimate failure would be if we failed to accomplish that if we failed to uh if we failed to um um you know watch our you know what we're spending and if we failed to properly market our product and if we fail to do everything that it takes to become a successful business, then that would be a failure. Now, market conditions, bad vintage, all of those things

come down and some of those things, uh, come down and some of those things that are completely outside of our control, um, you know, can affect that and could ultimately bring us down. Um, but with the, the, the overriding objective of becoming a successful business, uh, I can look at it and say, okay, well, we did everything that we could to give ourselves the best chance of being that. And we analyze. We've hired outside consultants to come look at our business. We've hired, and our staff knows this now, but they didn't in the past.

We hire ghost shoppers to come in and shop at our, at our, at our business and compare us to other businesses. And we, you know, we're continually analyzing everything that we do to, to give ourselves the best chance of, of, of, of, uh, being a successful business. Um, so, you know, failure would be, you know, if I had to look at it and like, wow, you know, we tried this, we went all in on this thing and, and it's just not working and you got to shut it down or sell it or you know something like that and then um but um you know i would still know that that uh you know if that happened uh that we did everything we couldn't with it was in our power to try and ensure that we got there okay so just give i have no idea what it takes to be to start up a winery obviously you need somebody that knows the craft really well but what many people have you hired? What is the price point of entry? I know it's not a franchise, but what is the general ballpark numbers to get a quality wine put together?

And I don't think you can do it unless you have some serious access to a winemaker and a vineyard. Yeah, you need – well, there's different ways to approach it. There are virtual wineries out there, which means, you know, you buy grapes from another producer, you utilize another facility. There are some custom crush facilities, which we made our wine, the first two vintages, first three vintages at a custom crush facility where they have all the tanks and all the equipment. And so, you know, you you come into it from that standpoint and it's not a huge capital expenditure at the at the outset um we chose uh to come at it um you know from an estate uh wine angle which means we want to we wanted to own our our vineyards and ultimately own our own winery

and do all those things that become genuine. But that's a much longer-term vision because your return on investment is a lot farther out when you do that. It's a lot more expensive. It's like building the factory. It is. Yeah, exactly. So we bought bare ground and planted our first vineyard in 2007.

The length of time is what is really the most difficult. When you plant a vineyard, it's three years before you have any grapes that you can use, and then two more years in the barrel before you can sell anything. So you make this big capital expenditure, and that's five years before you see your first dollar come back. Oh, gee. So we had a plan to get to profitability in seven years, and we made that just barely um but but once you once you do if you do if you build it that way um then um your business ultimately becomes um more sustainable and and hopefully more profitable as you go forward okay so if we transition from building a business back to

sport for just a minute what is like you were you were. You were one of the best in the country. Patriots were rolling. You were early in your career, made it to the Super Bowl. What many people know is that you had almost a career-ending injury. It wasn't necessarily career-ending, but it was life-threatening. It was almost life-threatening um you know i mean it was it was almost life ending yeah um okay good point really ultimately it uh um you know once it resolved itself it was it was you know it's you know it's a it's a perfectly sound and safe situation but yeah i was bleeding out internally um and uh pretty fast i was bleeding out at over a liter an hour inside

my body and they think that, you know, somebody my size have somewhere around between seven and eight liters total. So, you know, one eighth of my, of my blood was pouring into my chest cavity every hour. So it was pretty, pretty dire situation. And at that point, I'd been in new England for eight years. Um, I just signed a big, big contract and was, um, anticipating being there for, uh, for the rest of my career. Um, and, uh, um, you know, our team, uh, that year, believe it or not, we really were set up in training camp to be a pretty darn good team. Uh, we had a big, very good offensive line.

Unfortunately, I think four of those five guys got hurt at some point in training camp and didn't come all back together until I think after the first week. But once that group started to gel, we were going to be pretty good. But the unfortunate part for me was that while I was hurt in the hospital and recuperating, this Tom Brady kid came in and started playing pretty well. And the team started playing pretty well. And so after six weeks when I was cleared to come back and start doing some football stuff and then ultimately finally got cleared to play again, Belichick informed me that the other kid was going to be playing and I wasn't. And that was a tough one.

What was that like? I had some of the thoughts that you would probably imagine that I did. Like, well, screw this. I'm out of here. I'm done. I'm quitting. I'm not going back there. This isn't fair.

This isn't right. All of those things were kind of the immediate knee um, kind of the immediate, uh, you know, knee jerk reaction. Um, but, uh, ultimately, uh, you know, decided, and again, this, this kind of goes back to, you know, understanding that, um, you know, my values and my personal self-worth were not tied up in results on the football field. It was, more tied up in okay who am i and um so i made the decision i was gonna i was gonna go back to work and i was gonna support the team and support tom and and um and do my job as well as i could um discovered that i'm not a very good backup quarterback i don't have that i don't have that carrot of being able to go on the field i I learned that mostly because I've been spoiled to be on the field almost all the time, it was hard for me to stay as motivated. But ultimately, I did get to come back in and play in the AFC Championship game against the Steelers.

Helped our team get to the Super Bowl and so on. But it was a tough time. It was a difficult one. It's one of those when you feel like you're indispensable to your team and all of a sudden you get hurt and the team keeps moving on without you. It's kind of a tough awakening and ultimately every football player faces that. Okay, so how did you move, if go go down a level how'd you move from the anger the frustration into wait a minute who am i let me be the man that i set out to be what was that if you're going to teach somebody your kids or anybody listening like because sometimes we get caught in anger and i'm guessing that it has to do with you front loading with some clarity about who you are, your character setter.

Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I think ultimately that's it. You know, again, back to my parents, you know, they taught me some really important lessons going way, way back when. And, you know, one of those was about dignity. And my dad learned this from a black lady that he was close with when he was in the military. She came to work and he discovered that, he was back in Virginia, and discovered like four or five days later that she had been coming to work. And during one of those nights, somebody had come and burned crosses in her yard.

And she came to work, and Dad never knew. And he asked her at one point, he goes, how did you do that? How did you just come to work? And he smiled, and we never knew. And she said, and I'll get the exact wording wrong, but she said, you know, dignity has nothing to do with how other people treat us. It has to do with how we treat ourselves. And so it was just, you know, it's just kind of, and he's taught that over and over. And so, you know, for me, it was, you know, your circumstances don't define you.

You define you and you uh um and you do the best you can with whatever is presented to you and and um you know sometimes those things are easier to say than they are to do but but ultimately if you're committed to living that way then you can do it okay so a lot of people say it how how did you come to be committed to it and the how thing is really important and you might not know, but a lot of people say things like what you just said. I think the transition from almost being cut from being the starting quarterback from an injury, but then signing a massive contract. I want to know what that meant to you from coming from two parents that are teachers to sign

over a $100 million deal. How did you, how did you know? No, not how did you know, how did you become committed to the idea that you define your experience in life rather than the external events? Um, yeah, I don't, I, um, I don't know. It was, that was just, it was a, that was a commitment that I made. And, and, uh, um, you know, ultimately, um, you know, if you're going to say that, then you have to do it. I mean, if I'm going to, you know, and I also at that point was a dad and, you know, and I'm a son and a husband, you know, all of those things. And I can't, uh, you know, and felt like I'm accountable to those people that have supported me and that ultimately at some point are looking up to me.

I'm accountable to those people to do what I said I was going to do. And also accountable to myself. I wanted to make sure that ultimately when I looked at myself that I was doing what I said I was going to do. But yeah, it wasn't easy. Those were tough moments. But ultimately it was the right thing to do. Drew, what did you mean that you realized you weren't a good backup? That you needed the carrot of being out there?

What is the carrot? And I'll make it kind of, I think, simple. Is it the feeling of being in the amphitheater, or is it the scent or the adulation that you get from being great? Or, like, is it internal? Is it external? What was the reward for you? It was 100 internal um you know i've had just that the the ability of or that not the ability but the the opportunity to uh prepare

all week and know that you're you're going into battle against a team that's that's got a whole uh whole a defensive staff and a whole team that's designed specifically to stop you and hit you and keep you from doing what you're doing and and um the the opportunity to go compete and and take on that challenge and try to win a game in spite of the fact that they're all aligned against you and and uh to you know step into a huddle and lead a team and, you know, take on that responsibility. All of those things I just absolutely, absolutely loved. And it made, you know, it made the preparation week exciting and fun because, you know, at the end of it, you're going to have to go put that into action. But, you know, I mean to go put that into action.

I shouldn't say I wasn't a good backup. I was ready to do my job. I ran scout team and I did those kinds of things, but I didn't like it very much. I think there are some guys that once you get one of those backup quarterback jobs, it's a pretty nice living. You show up and make good money. You sit in some meetings, go practice, and you stand on the sidelineselines you get a really great seat for the games all of those all of those things i think there are certain guys that can get pretty comfortable in that role um that i was not

very comfortable with it and tom brady was not comfortable with it i've heard interviews of you saying he was right in your hip pocket like he was studying and learning and trying to take as much information. Are you glad that you helped him? I don't know, man. Maybe I should have told him the wrong thing and sprained his ankle or something. Tell him it's all about the money. It's all about adulation. Yeah, it's all about the money.

Just go find it. But no, I mean, ultimately, again, I'm really proud of watching the success that he's had. And more importantly to me, watching the way that he's done things, where he's just been the highest character. He's been a great leader. He's done everything right in the community, all those things. You never read anything negative about him screwing up in the community. He's always doing great things. So it makes it easy for me to cheer for him,

even though he took my job and we're still friends and all those things. Ultimately, I wouldn't go back and change it. He was a guy that had a great desire to learn and hopefully learn some stuff from me while we were there for a couple of years that he's taken on to bigger and higher levels. But no, I wouldn't go back and change that. Finding Mastery is brought to you by Cozy Earth. Over the years, I've learned that recovery doesn't just happen when we sleep. It starts with how we transition and wind down. And that's why I've built intentional routines into the way that I close my day. And Cozy Earth has become a new part of that. Their bedding, it's incredibly soft, like next level soft. And what surprised me the

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It's about choosing better. And when your day demands clarity and energy and presence, the way you prepare for it matters. If you're looking for high quality personal care products that elevate your routine without complicating it, I'd love for you to check them out. Head to calderalab.com slash finding mastery and use the code finding mastery at checkout for 20% off your first order. That's calderalab, C-A-L-D-E-R-L-A-B.com slash finding mastery. What was it like for you to see, I think you guys are friends, I would imagine. What was it like for you to see him go through the challenge of the flight gate

where he got blasted for cheating? It was the dumbest story that I've ever seen in sports. I still to this day have no idea how that turned into what it turned into. Um, and, um, you know, to watch him go through that, I mean, it, to me, I was kind of incredulous with the whole thing, you know, initially, like, I can't, they're really talking about this.

Um, uh, but then it rose to the, to the level. I mean, this thing almost went to the Supreme court. I mean, that was the next level that this thing was going to go to. And it was just absolutely ridiculous to me to see that that's where this thing rose to. Is that because quarterbacks, like as a tribe, you guys take care of each other? Or is that because, like, no, you're just looking for the right feel for the ball and you're not trying to manipulate it? Well, so here's the thing. If you really want to talk about the actual footballs, the biggest thing that I've seen that's changed is now when you look at the footballs that are on the field in NFL games now, they're really dark brown.

They're almost like an old baseball mitt. So they've been doing something to really break them in, which makes them more tacky and easier to grip. That would be way more important to me than the inflation level. I mean, I can grab a football if it's too spongy. I don't like it if it's over full. I don't like it. But there's a big spot there in the middle where you're never going to notice. And so that part was just so ridiculous to me because i did to turn that into somehow

that's an advantage um it's crazy um and uh um so anyway the whole story has been super ridiculous i think uh um you know tom's kind of been able to uh you know stay above the fray a little bit but the fact that he had to go through what he went through on something like this was really a ridiculous thing. So speaking of like, okay, there's something that I know, and I bet you know, which is the dark side of trying to be, no, the dark side of pursuing mastery, the dark side of pursuing world-class performance.

I felt it. I know that many people I've spent time with feel it. Can you talk about the dark side? The cost of being one of the best? freedoms. You sacrifice free time. There's physical sacrifice that hurts. There's sleepless nights. There are a lot of things. And then ultimately, you take great risk because if you really are trying to be great at what you're doing, you're all in. And in the arena of professional football or professional sports, you're taking that risk of, okay, I'm going to put everything I've got into this. And it might not be enough. And if it's not enough, I'm revealing that in front of millions of

people and so ultimately that's the biggest risk is you know if you're truly pursuing you know the greatness and you're trying to be the very best that you can be and you go all in and you commit yourself 100% to it and then you go put it out there for the world to view and it's not enough. That hurts emotionally. That's an emotional, emotional, emotional,

the emotional risk. Yeah, for sure. And you felt that plenty of times. Sure. Sure. Yeah. You go,

you go, you go all in, you go out there and, and, and, you know, and particularly when you're playing, when you're playing quarterback,

as we talked about earlier, you know, there are times where, yeah, prepared really hard and actually played fairly well, and it still didn't work. So that part is painful. So being a leader, having command out on the field, or at least attempting to, what are the mental skills that you've come to understand are really important in the arena of risk? The mental skills for a leader, I think one of the most important is understanding that, particularly in football, man, you're dealing with a lot of different guys that are wired differently and understanding that different guys need different things from a leader.

Some guys need the carrot. Some guys need the whip. Some guys need a hug. Some guys need a kick in the butt. Trying to understand which guys are which and when they need those kinds of things is a big challenge. I'm not sure I totally ever mastered that part of it. I think there were times when some of the guys that I gave a hug to actually needed a kick in the butt to get them going. So that's one of them. And then the other one that I really felt all the time was that as a quarterback, um, as a quarterback, um, you always had to

display an unwavering belief in what you were doing. Um, even if you didn't actually feel it, you know, you had to display for your teammates, um, an unwavering belief that, yeah, we're going to win this game. Even when you might know rationally that there's no way we're going to win this game um and uh um you know and then you know what what goes along with that is if you you know if you do that and you're kind of you're going to portray that you can actually trick yourself into believing that yeah again we're actually going to do this were you good were you good at confidence was that a skill you had yeah yeah i was good i'm always good at confidence yeah and do you do you have some clarity on how you built confidence for yourself? If you could translate that to others? study and um you know ultimately the confidence you you build it in a in a multitude of ways um but uh the most important of those are preparation um always felt like i had a

complete mastery of what we were trying to do um mental mental reps so i would envision a successful play on each on each and every play um and then um and then ultimately practice you know practice doing it perfectly and and um you know you do those things over and over and over again and ultimately um you know you can develop an unwavering confidence in what you're doing and then on the on the imagery part how was it every day was it saturday nights was it like what was your typical rhythm or what do you know it was yeah yeah no it was it was What was your typical rhythm? Or what do you wish for? It was continuous throughout the week where we'd get a game plan and I would spend a little bit of time pre-meeting or even in a meeting

visualizing a play and different things that could happen and ultimately what that looked like as a successful play, then I would go through and envision difficult defenses for that particular play and how we were going to attack that, and what if they blitzed the free safety, all of those kinds of things. And then that was definitely my routine on Saturdays before games. I would spend time with our game plan sheet and go through individually each play

and visualize that play and then success. Could you see it in color? Could you feel it? Could you hear it? Could you smell it? Was it at that level of detail? I don't know about smell it um but but i could definitely um could definitely see it and and feel it um you know i um you know noise was never a part of of any of it i never heard

anything when i was in a play um but uh but in terms of visualizing and seeing what it was going to look like from from my exact perspective not, not from the camera's perspective, but from my exact perspective, I would watch. Were you taught that by somebody? Yeah. Yeah, you were. Yeah. That's my dad again. He did a lot of and still does a lot of public speaking talking about um you know training your brain and uh um you know

the goal setting component of that and the visualization component of that all came from my old man i love it i want to meet your old man he was he's on it he's he's pretty he's pretty cool yeah he's on it okay so um last piece in football and then i want to get into the transition pieces is that so you get injured you realize that you don't like being a backup you do your job well and then um you get you get traded eventually tom brady comes in you get traded and then fast forward to the ending of i think you had like 14 years in the league yeah is that right yeah phenomenal that's phenomenal right and you had all these records like really massive records that you experienced.

Then Tony Romo takes your job. Was he the transit? Okay. How are you getting your head around? You get injured. Tom Brady comes in. You leave the league. Tony Romo comes in, and he becomes a stud at what he's doing.

Now you've got Tony Romo and Dax in a very similar situation that you're in. So Dax is the backup that's balling out when Tony Romo went down, the head quarterback for the Ducks-Cowboys. Can you just talk about if you were Dax, what you would be doing? If you were Tony, what would you be doing? How are you thinking about this? You know, let me just say this i think both dac and um tony are handling this thing really well um you know dac is saying the right things um about uh you know being tony's team and he's just trying to do his best and and i think that's actually what he's

doing you know he's going out and just playing well and and uh there's also a certain freedom and a certain liberty and and uh you in allowing himself to still be the backup. It's a little bit of a different deal if you're actually the starter. There's a different set of responsibilities and pressures that come with that. And then Tony, I haven't really heard him say anything. So he's just kind of being a good soldier and going to work so yeah it'll be interesting to see what the Cowboys ultimately decide

to do but at some point that decision is going to be very real and it seems to me like they're probably going to stick with Dak because they're winning and things are going well and ultimately if Tony moves on going to stick with with with Dak because they're winning and things are going well and and uh

ultimately um you know if Tony moves moves on they've got a whole bunch of salary cap money to use so that's probably what they're you know what they would do um but I don't know that for sure um and uh you know if they do that then you know one thing that I found was because I handled the situation well I had other opportunities and I'm assuming that Tony will do the same, that he'll handle whatever comes to pass. He'll handle it very well and probably have other opportunities to go on. But it's certainly not an easy deal. Being in the amphitheater and being really connected to what's not in your control, I think is a very, very difficult thing to do. And ultimately, I'm sure your dad and you would probably give counsel to anybody saying, listen, get in control of what you're in control of and focus on mastering those, whatever those are.

The character skills, the practice reps. Yeah, that's 100% it. You control the part you can control and then the uh the other the other stuff is is all peripheral yeah and if we're really concrete control your thoughts control your actions to be at the highest level exactly okay so uh i said last question but this is going to be the last of them all is uh you sign 103 million dollar. Your parents are school teachers. And because you brought it up about a salary cap,

if they move from Tony, they'll have a bunch of salary cap. And that was one of the factors I think that affected your return to play at the Patriots. So what was that like? Well, you know, first of all, you know, my parents were, you know, they were both teachers, but, you know, but by definition don't make a ton of money. But we never wanted for anything. We were always fed and clothed and went on vacations.

Now we went on vacations. We went in the back of a truck and we camped, but we didn't get on airplanes. So I had a really, really nice life growing up on not very much money. When I signed my first contract and I had a million dollars hit my bank account, which was my same bank account that I had in college that was always overdrawn. A million dollars was infinity money. I was like, what are you going to do with that? And it was, um, you know, and I, I looked at it and I, you know,

there were trading card deals and shoe deals and, you know, all of those things that were all, um, orders of magnitude more than my parents ever made, you know, combined in a day and in a decade, you know, and, um, just for wearing somebody's shoes. So it was always kind of silly to me. Um, and I said that a lot when I was, when I was first in the decade, you know, and just for wearing somebody's shoes. So it was always kind of silly to me. And I said that a lot when I was first in the league that, you know, it didn't necessarily make sense and wasn't equitable when my folks were teaching kids and I'm throwing a ball.

You know, but at the same time, you know, that part of it made it pretty easy to be pretty generous with the money in terms of trying to do good generous with the money in terms of trying to do good things in the world with that. And we have done a lot. And ultimately, I've always been very aware that, you know, that I had a pretty nice life on not very much. We do the same things now.

And all of that, we just do them in different places. Instead of being on a beach with a tent and a little tiny ski boat, we'll be on a beach in Hawaii or something, but it's still kind of the same stuff. Okay. All right. So not that hard. Yeah. Not that hard. Okay. Quickly, what cuts to the center of what you understand most in life? What cuts to the center of what I understand most in life? Is there a word or a phrase? Yeah.

I would say love. And that's family. It's friendship. It's business. it's coaching football. I'm coaching high school football. And you love people. You love what you do. You love teaching.

You love all of those things. And ultimately, by expressing that, almost by definition you love yourself and your impact in the world so can you help us understand what it's like when you're most alive because I think people are looking for passion and aliveness in life

what does that look and feel like to you when you're most alive well now it's pre-game at a high school football game when i'm getting ready to call plays for my kids you know for my son who's playing quarterback or it's uh standing at the top of a ski mountain that's that's pretty steep and pretty scary um or um um you know watching my kids succeed at something.

Those kinds of events now. Is there a particular moment in time that comes up that captures one of the greatest risks you've taken? Oh, geez. I've been fortunate to have taken a lot of them. But my first game that I got to play in as a freshman in college, we were down at the Coliseum against the USC Trojans. I was 18 years old and had to run out on that field at the start of the second half. And, yeah, that was pretty risky, you know, both physically and emotionally and all of those things.

And it was a pretty weird sensation being out there, you know. Do you have any insights on how to help us be you know enhance the process of becoming a better risk taker enhance the process of being a better risk taker um um well there are a few things maybe that i would say um one would be to embrace and enjoy fear, you know, um, learn, learn, learn to, uh, learn to enjoy the sensation of, um, being afraid of what you're doing. Um, and then, but at the same time, uh, prepare diligently to face that. Um, there are times when, when, are times when fear is perfectly rational and should keep you from doing something if you're not prepared to do it. But if you're afraid of something that's coming, that can drive you to prepare for it.

And then ultimately, if you prepare for it, then that fear goes away and you can do it but you know that that sensation of the adrenaline that comes with of you know taking a risk but taking a risk that you know you're prepared to accomplish it should be a good sensation so you were coached think, by Coach Pete Carroll and Bill Belichick. Is that right? Yeah, and Parcells. And Parcells. And Parcells. Probably three Hall of Famers. Yeah. And so how was that influenced you?

What do you take from Parcells? What do you take from Bill? And what do you take from Coach Carroll? The interesting thing that I think many people from the outside wouldn't guess is that they're remarkably similar. Their personalities are quite different. And the way that they are portrayed in the media is very different, but they're remarkably similar coaches, um, in terms of their, their, uh, um, demand for precision, um, their demand for competitiveness, um, you know, their demand for attention to detail for, um, eliminating distractions. Um, you know, I think you watch some of the stuff that goes on in the league on some teams where there are all kinds of these extraneous distractions. Those things don't happen with Bill Belichick or Bill Parcells or Pete Carroll. Those distractions are squashed very,

very quickly, and guys understand that. I think that's the thing that would surprise most people is how similar those three guys are as coaches. Okay, so back to you. Are you more street smart or analytical? Street smart. And do you learn better in a slow-paced environment or a fast-paced environment? A fast-paced environment. If you could be the first person to go to Mars, and it could potentially save the world because it's the first person to go would you take that adventure no okay so are you more of a

rule take follower or risk taker risk taker risk taker but would not go to Mars yeah man that's a long trip and it's boring as hell and and and and I've got a lot of stuff I want to do here. It just sounds super boring. I'd love to go to Mars. Okay, so need for control. Is that high, medium, low? Medium. Medium.

Are you intellectually competitive or more physically competitive or high on both? High on both. Okay, so when someone says something stupid and they think that they're saying something that is on point, you'll challenge them? If I respect them. Oh, if you don't respect them, you just keep your mouth shut. If I don't respect them, then why enter into conversation? Got it. Are you more critical of yourself or positive? I'm both. I'm both. I'm critical, but I try to be critical in a positive way. I think I'm pretty honest with myself. If I screw up, I'm willing to wear it and own it. But always within the context that I'm learning, so I'm not going to do it again.

Do you make fast decisions or slow decisions? Both, depending on the situation. Okay, so you're aware of your decision-making style. Yeah, yeah. If there's a decision that has to be made right now, I can make that decision and be confident in it and live with it. If it's a big decision and I have time, then I'll wear it out. I mean, I will analyze it from every possible angle and try to measure it as many times as I can before I cut it.

But if there's something that requires a decision instantly, then I'll make that decision and live with the consequences. When you think about the future, are you more optimistic good things happen or more pessimistic that I need to be cautiously aware? I'm always optimistic. Did you learn that from dad, mom, dad? Um, I, I, I, um, yeah, yeah. I mean, I just, I kind of always felt like, uh, I don't always felt like things were going to, going to, going to break my way. Okay.

Pressure comes from? I mean, I guess pressure comes from within, but pressure is a weird word to me because I always, people always would try to portray pressure as a negative thing. And I always looked forward to it. It put me in a pressure situation. That's where I function best. Yeah, that's an incredible model. Okay.

All right, Drew, thank you. Yeah, no, it's been a pleasure, man. I really enjoyed it. Yeah, this is incredible. Your body of knowledge is important. And I think it's important to share with as many people as we possibly can because you've come to understand something as an entrepreneur, as a businessman, as a husband, as a father. And your framework, you've got great clarity high school football is being able to share that framework and that body of knowledge with the boys. The cool part is that you're teaching

them life lessons, but it actually translates into good football. And, you know, so all of those lessons. It was cool yesterday. It was really cool yesterday. There's a guy that lives here locally, Jim Weatherby. He was a commander of – he was on six space shuttle missions and was a commander of five. You may have come across him at some point in your travels. But I got to meet him at this conference where we were talking some business, and it was really cool to have him come talk to the boys

and without teeing it up or setting it up, talked about the same stuff that we talk about. It was really, really cool, you know, talking about how they picked astronauts to ultimately climb to the top of that thing. And the number one thing that they looked for was somebody that was willing to be a part of the team. And the team was bigger than self. And he talked about they had to be ready for the emergencies,

but they drilled the mundane over and over again because the mundane stuff was more important than the big stuff. And what was the last one? There were three of them where it was like, dude, I could not have teed it up better than this. And the last one was, what was it? Anyway, it was really cool, though, to have this guy that spent a few months in space come in and talk to the boys and just tell them all the same stuff we've

been telling them and i wanted to look at the boys like see we're not stupid this stuff's real and we've been telling you that it applies to everything and uh i've learned the same thing drew when over and over and over again when you talk to people have done it on the world stage is that the conversations are more similar than than dissimilar yeah and they don't suck the life out of a room they give and they prepare and they have command of their mind and you know last question for you is how do you think about or define the concept of um, yeah, that's interesting. Cause when you, when you,

uh, when you, when you say mastery, I, um, I don't ever want to feel like I have it mastered because then it'd be boring. Um,

and, and, uh, so I, I, I've never felt like I've had anything mastered. Um, and,

uh, um, you know, I will tell you that toward the end of my football career, um, it became less interesting, um, because I felt like, um, I knew enough about it that I could almost tell you the outcome of a game based on a couple of factors. Um, and it became less interesting. Um, and that's probably because I was maybe approaching mastery at least from a knowledge standpoint and it did become less interesting at that point. Brilliant. Okay, so where can we find out more about you? Doubleback.com?

Yeah, doubleback.com is the winery website. And do you have any social media handles? Yeah, I do. At DrewBledso So on Twitter, um, and at, uh, E X Q B one, one, uh, on Instagram X Q B.

I love it. X Q X Q B 11. Perfect. Okay. Drew, thank you again. Hope you have really enjoyed it, Mike.

Yeah. All the best to you. Take care. Yeah. Right on YouTube. See ya. Bye. All right. Thank you so much for diving into another episode of Finding Mastery with us.

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