Finding Mastery with Dr. Michael Gervais - NFL Stardom to Rock Bottom: Ryan Leaf on Redemption & Resilience

Episode Date: March 12, 2025

What happens when everything you’ve built your identity around—your talent, your success, your career—comes crashing down?Ryan Leaf’s story is one of the most dramatic arcs in professional sports. Once the No. 2 overall draft pick behind Peyton Manning, Ryan saw his NFL career unravel under the weight of expectations, addiction, and ultimately, prison. And here’s what makes his story powerful—he doesn’t run from it. He owns it. And he’s turned it into a mission to help others navigate mental health, shame, and resilience.In this episode, we get real about the dangerous side of the “chip on your shoulder” mentality, how stigma kept Ryan from asking for help, and the moment that changed everything—when he stopped proving people wrong and started focusing on service.If you want to dive into an episode about redefining success, resilience, and ultimately redemption, this conversation with Ryan Leaf is for you._________________Subscribe to our Youtube Channel for more powerful conversations at the intersection of high performance, leadership, and meaning: https://www.youtube.com/c/FindingMasteryGet exclusive discounts and support our amazing sponsors! Go to: https://findingmastery.com/sponsors/Subscribe to the Finding Mastery newsletter for weekly high performance insights: https://www.findingmastery.com/newsletter Download Dr. Mike's Morning Mindset Routine! https://www.findingmastery.com/morningmindsetFollow us on Instagram, LinkedIn, and X.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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in the corner of the locker room and he pivots around and it's the viral video. And I just look like a child. What happens when everything you've built your identity around, talent, success, your career, comes crashing down? Welcome back, or welcome to the Finding Mastery podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Michael Gervais, by trade and training a high-performance psychologist. Today's guest is Ryan Leaf, a man whose story is one of the most dramatic arcs in professional sports.

Once the number two overall draft pick behind Peyton Manning, Ryan's NFL career unraveled under the weight of expectations, addiction, and ultimately prison. When you were 12 to early teens, how was your mental health at that point? Well, we didn't know much about mental health or anything about mental health. In fact, it was cowboy culture, you know, and then locker rooms for sports and stuff. So, you know, kind of rub some dirt on and get back out there mentality. You are more fearful that someone may know you need help than getting the help that you need. That stigma ran rampant because I didn't want anybody to know. Look at what Peyton has done, and then look at your arc. Dramatically different. Number one and number two draft picks in the NFL.

And then one goes to Hall of Fame. The other one goes to prison. In this conversation, we get real about a chip-on-your-shoulder mentality. And the moment that changed everything. This one's about redemption, resilience, and redefining success. So with that, let's jump into it with Ryan Leaf. Ryan, I've followed you for a long time. And so to be able to sit here with you to really understand the choices you've made, the insights you've come to develop is a real treat. Well, I appreciate it. This was a neat deal.

Let's start with the last mile. So the last mile is the organization. You're wearing the hoodie right now. But let's just start with what that is because I think it'll back us into your story? So it was something I had no awareness of. And I got a call from the person who was setting up guests on their podcast and asked if I would come in and be a part of the podcast. So then I started looking into it a little bit. And, you know, I always try to find shared values in anything I do. I try not to do anything just to do it for publicity or anything like that, but something that we have actual shared values in. And their criminal justice reform aspect of things is powerful.

And what they're doing, actually, by placing educational programming in prisons throughout our country that teach coding, the technology aspect of things, because I was away for three years. Imagine, guys, we've been away for eight to ten years and how much technology has changed and about the job, the workforce from when you get out. Another is through the audio, visual, and production side of things. So really the kind of world that exists out there right now, content and coding for technology. And so when I found out about that, I was even more interested. And then Chris and his lovely wife, Bev, who started the whole thing, knew I

was going to be traveling to Montana in the summer. And they have a program in the prison that I was in. And they asked me, would I be willing to go back and talk to the guys that are in the class? And so that was a big deal because the last time I'd been there, I was a prisoner. So I was about to walk back through the doors of the place I left that was a miserable place. And that jump started it. And once the executive director of the foundation got back to Bev and Chris, and they just said, he can make an impact. And I felt the same way. And I felt like that driving purpose of being of service to someone else was ever present here. And so we've really jumped in with both feet. I tend to do that um sometimes to my detriment in terms of time management um but it's so purposeful to see the the reaction from people that

i can relate to who at times have no hope this prison really its main objective it feels like is just to remove all hope so there's three things I want to talk to you about. I want to talk about mental health. I want to talk about failure. And I want to talk about early success and how that helped inform and shape you. And so let's start with mental health first. When you were, I don't know, let's go back into the 12 year olds, 12 to early teens, how was your mental health at that point? Well, we didn't know much about it, mental health or anything about mental health. In fact, it was, it was like, especially where I grew up in Montana, it was pretty taboo. Yeah, that's right. Cowboy culture, you know, and then locker rooms for

sports and stuff. So, you know, kind of rub some dirt on it and get back out there mentality of stuff. I feel like it was pretty good, but what had happened is I was the, I'm the, I'm the first grandchild of a very large family, prominent, well-known like farming and ranching community family. And I was the first grandchild born. And some of the behaviors that my grandfather exhibited, kind of extrovert, man about town, respected, but was an alcoholic. And so embarrassed the daughters and everything like that. So my mom was always so worried about what other people thought.

And so I don't think she ever wanted to i know she never wanted a famous football playing son because she didn't want anybody to see you know who he was about that and so she just saw me and or him and me in a lot of the ways that i acted on the basketball court or the baseball diamond or the football field. And so I kind of got shamed like that. Shamed in what way? That I wasn't good enough, like that I was bad.

Because of what behaviors? Over competitiveness, like crazy attitude. Demonstrative, aggressive, in your face, unbecoming potentially. Well, to other people, yeah. Yeah. But to me and to anybody who's competitive, it was win. Yeah. Okay.

So you're stepping on some really important, seemingly casual ideas, potentially systemic addiction or trauma in the family. I don't know yet, but we're just going to go through that in a minute. And then a constant narrative from your mom about the fear of other people's opinions. And we coined that term FOPO, which we believe FOPO is one of the greatest constrictors of potential. Oh, it so is. It so is. It so is.

You're so worried about what other people think of you. At one point for me, I just, I accepted it. Even like, you know, in my hometown, in my home state, kind of developed the same mindset that my mom did. They always wanted a professional athlete from their the state from this town and instead they got me you know i was my heroes were the fab five so jalen rose and chris weber and so my head was shaved i had my ears pierced. I had my black socks and shorts down to my knees. And in a very conservative, you know, blue-collar town like Great Falls, Montana, they just wanted you to shut up. So your talent was shrouded in shame.

Yeah. Oh, God, yeah. And shame, as we know, is one of the on-paths to addiction. Or not, I'm sorry, not addiction to abuse. Right. And so shame and guilt are some of the things that keep people drunk and drugged. Finding Mastery is brought to you by LinkedIn Sales Solutions. In any high performing environment that I've been part of, from elite teams to executive boardrooms, one thing holds true.

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David, D-A-V-I-D, protein, P-R-O-T-E-I-N.com slash finding mastery. And the shame part of it not understanding that like you know guilt you did a bad thing shames you're a bad person yeah and so that's what i thought and and it came to a point where i was just sick and tired of it that i i just i just accepted it and said what okay so now now it's going to be now it's the chip on the show now it's going to be everything i do in my power is to uh i told you so is this a high school chip where's this college high school so in high school um there's this constant narrative let's let's recreate this a little bit this constant narrative

like why did you do that okay yeah i mean you don't have to do that you're so good you're the best out there why are you acting like this ryan but also i've gone back now you know i'm writing my memoir and i'm going through the process and i've gone back and looked at the things that people were so outraged about. And I'm like, there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. I'm behaving just like any highly competitive player is. What was everybody's deal? I wore yellow shoes, gold shoes in the state tournament. And it was this huge thing, my disrespect.

It just was a narrative that started when I was young and it was just never corrected. You know, the greatest coach I ever had came in for my final year of basketball. He's one of the greatest coaches ever in the state of Montana. And my ghostwriter went up and visited with him and the coach was like Ryan's the greatest player I've ever coached so if this guy is so highly respected why how is that possible then right wait hold on you said something I'm I want to get to that question I want to rewind to a big insight that you said i had an early narrative that was given to me and it was never corrected so your attempt to correct it

was a chip on your shoulder which is fuck it let's go yeah and then is that when you turn to alcohol and drugs no never even touched first alcohol drink was my 18th birthday i'd like three shots of peppermint schnapps and said, I'm never drinking again. Done. Done. That did not work for you. No drugs ever in my life. Okay.

Competition was my first drug of choice. Oh, that's interesting. Yeah. I was a drug addict long before I ever took a drug. Yeah. So are you making the corollary between the way you competed and addiction? Obsessive. Willing to do anything and everything to win.

Thought about it all the time. Got in the way of normal everyday living. I don't think it ever got in the way. I didn't. I don't. I think it gave me everything. Okay, so not truly an addiction, but you're drawing this almost dramatic line to say it was like a huge part. Well, it's just like anything now, being sober, your willingness, like you could get into exercise

so much that it becomes a real issue when it's a healthy alternative. I do think that was a really healthy alternative for me to compete. I just don't think people had, they didn't believe it was was as important as i did well there's something here to pay attention to because that you're saying you're talking about your competitive obsession in in most environments it's like yeah he's competitive she's competitive like watch out however it felt like either your family or your community created the narrative that it was too much. And you're saying now looking back at even now, you don't understand it. I don't. I look back, I can't wait to, you know, Paul, who's helping me write the book, he went and spent a week in my hometown, Great Falls. And I told him to put a ad in the paper

that says, hey, I'm here writing a book on Ryan Leaf would love anybody to come by the Starbucks here and tell whatever stories you have and you would not believe the amount of people that showed up and told stories that just had no relevance or just it was just made up a narrative that and i'm just like wait wait wait a minute people showed up to lie about you yeah like just these stories that that were stemmed from maybe things that happened maybe 10 years later even that they would reinvent from from from high school or something like that you know what's the emotion under the surface when you're bringing this forward? What emotions do you feel right now?

I'm disappointed because I was just a kid. Yeah, I can feel it. Because I was just a kid. Yeah. But what gives me no leeway or the high road at any point for me is because, and we'll get into this more because of my addiction, but I went back to the community and then victimized it when I was older. Okay. So I don't have really a leg to stand on.

Like I can't be, there's no moral high ground to me saying, because now they can say, oh, we always knew what a piece of shit he was. Well, okay. you can have both you can have that empathy for your younger self the sadness that you didn't have a supportive a nurturing childhood and at the same time washington state offered that nurturing they did yeah it was everything i could have ever hoped for the state of washington and they just yeah wrapped me in their arms yeah they they were they were okay with in fact they they loved this version they loved who i really was who are who is that the competitive, hard on a sleeve, emotional

leader. What if I said, I'm not sure that's who you really are? That's who you adopted to become, to be able to navigate an environment that wanted to keep you small so they wouldn't be exposed or embarrassed. And then the state of Washington and the people and the fact that we won, um, gave that fuel. Yeah. Yeah. I would buy that because I do sell the story of like, I was, I'm just also just a kind of a redneck kid who wanted to play sports and be liked. Yeah. And I I'm feeling it. I can feel what you're feeling right now, which is the sadness for your childhood the loss of innocence that you didn't yeah you know and so um that is what i would say

is like the origin seed that part that you're yearning for to be seen to be understood to be a mess and you've got this you've got a strain in there about competitiveness. And then you, like all of us, we find what's working and then we hydrate that. Yeah. And that was working for you and you're tall, athletic, so it fit. But there's the other part of you, which is like, look, I want to be seen. I want to be cared for. I want to be understood. I just want to be okay. I don't want to need to have accolades or fame or attention to be at home with myself. Yeah, that's the only way I found I could win then for those people that...

And listen, a lot of us, I mean, I've listened to Tom Brady over and over talk about the chip that he wore for so long. And I was calling the game last night and we interviewed the quarterbacks for both teams. And one of them who, what were the two teams? North Dakota state versus Montana state. They were the number one and number two teams in the country. Both the quarterbacks were just the best in the country.

And one of them, Cam Miller, who was the North Dakota State quarterback, he said something. He said that, because we asked him, what motivates you? And he said, the chip on my shoulder that no one believed in me or that I could do it. And that fueled me. And then he had this like epiphany where he goes, but I got to a point where that had to change because it was becoming a negative. And he said, I started making it about, this isn't about me, this is about my team, our team. And I just thought that was incredibly perceptive on his part as a 22-year-old kid because it was exactly where I was at.

Because getting to the NFL, wearing that, and constantly trying to prove everybody wrong got me there. It did get you there. And then there had to be an evolution to me, but I didn't know anything else. Okay, this is really important because early trauma family narrative that was never unwritten. You didn't know how to do it any other way than have an aggressive chip. It fueled high performance and high success.

It it didn't allow for the nurturing of the fullness of you, but this very prickly razor sharp part of you in which success was part of it in the athletic world. Now, this chip led you to be the number two draft pick in the NFL. So it worked pretty well. I mean, this is pretty big success early on. And just to be clear, number one, who was number one? Peyton Manningning who's been pretty decent he's been pretty good yeah and then so when you think about two of you were neck and neck

and i've been in nfl draft rooms um it's a little bit of a flip of a coin you know like between one and two yeah between one and four yeah you know like it's more fit it's whatever but talent everyone one two top ten everyone's got some serious everybody's talent is as as you can imagine if you were considered a top ten pick you've got to be extraordinary to make an nfl team just to make an nfl team you are extraordinary even if you don't get any play time i mean you're an extraordinary athlete okay you're number two in the world. Dramatic moment here. And look at what Peyton has done. And then look at your arc. Dramatically different. How does that sit with you? Well, I think it, I've never looked at Peyton and had any sort of resentment for him.

Ever. A, we were both, I think, like 20 years old when we met. Yeah. And we've been linked to each other for 28 years. You were drafted in 1998, to be clear. He wrote to me in prison. His family was incredibly supportive. No way.

Yeah. We've been friends forever. Yeah, that's very cool. That's full class. Yeah. So he invited me to his Hall of Fame induction. And I think a lot of people would be like, why would you go? People did ask me, why are you going to that?

I'm like, because I know how damn hard it was and how hard it had to have been for him and to be that successful. There's 378 pro football Hall of Famers ever celebrate that, and it was a great night. It was an unbelievable night that him and I got to share.

And so I'm not so much focused on his success. I know that us being tied together lengthens that void of what success and what people would consider failure is. I'm more on the side of your thing there about how difficult it is to get there, how good you have to be, and to hear people so flippantly just be like, that guy sucked. Oh, it drives me crazy. You know? But like anything, it's human nature. How my life has changed.

I'll get a thousand compliments on whatever, social media or, you know, at events or anything like that. And there'll be one negative critical. And that'll be the one thing we focus on as human beings. We just, and I'll be like, that's wrong. Or the things I've learned through my recovery aspect of things, like if it stings, maybe take a look at it too. And so I've gotten better at that. And then if I take a look at it and go, okay, that has zero relevance or bearing, I'll discard it.

But there have been times where like, yeah, I can see that. I'm going to try to work on that. Yeah, because I don't know many people that have this dramatic pairing, number one and number two draft picks in the NFL. And then one goes to Hall of Fame and your path was very different. The other one goes to prison. I'm glad you brought it up. We're glad you said it that way that i'm not so sure i am

clear on the definition of life success and life failure i have a hard time thinking about failure and i'll tell you why is because i believe fundamentally that people are trying to have a great life and if you just take that basic principle and then notch it down like four or five levels, it gets down to choices. And an unaware, uninformed, and or a person in some sort of pain is going to make a very predictable set of choices. Highly aware in pain, there's a different set of choices. Highly aware and feeling healthy and happy and a sense of abundance in life, there's a different set of choices. Okay, so, and we can keep extending the decision tree here.

So I'm getting a sense that highly competitive, early trauma, not feeling great about it, not unaware, but not really aware of your inner life in the way that you are now, you made some choices. And some of the choices I made that were not viewed by others outside as negative or can be criticized, what I always could do is show up the following week and perform. And that was tossed to the side. Whatever pedestal I was placed on for having a golden right arm, consequences weren't as great for me.

You know, people could always say he's such an asshole, but God, is he good. So did the talent come easy, your ability to to throw the ball i think i think i do myself a disservice by saying yes to that a lot because then i forget about the 6 a.m mornings that dad woke me up and took me to the gym and i had to make so many free throws and three-pointers before i went to homeroom you know i forget about all the hard work that nobody saw because no one gives it any merit, because no one ever sees it. So I think I do myself a disservice there by discounting how God-given talent was the reason why.

This isn't true. My dad is six foot. My mom's five foot six. I'm the only Montanan who's ever been drafted in the first round of the NFL draft. There are more first round draft picks in the Manning family than the whole state of Montana. That's true. I'm the only one. In Montana?

Yes. In the state? The only one ever in the history. So there's no roadmap. Like I was making omelets and breaking eggs everywhere I went. I was just trying to figure it out. Were you a jerk? I don't think so.

I think because I'm really self-aware now. And I understand when old behavior crops up and everything like that. But I look back at when I was a kid. And I wasn't a jerk. I just, you know. Now, when I got to college and there at the end, in the Heisman and going to the NFL, did I start to become, I think that was a result from how I'd been treated.

So in my mind, I was just given back to how I was been treated. So in my mind, I was just given back to how I was being treated. Meaning? They treated me like a jerk, so I was going to treat them. And who's the they? My hometown. My home state. Got it.

The night of the Heisman Trophy, my hometown newspaper ran a poll or survey on who should be the winner. And I finished third, my hometown newspaper ran a poll or a survey on who should be the winner. And I finished third in my hometown. The Day of the Rose Bowl, the headline of the hometown newspaper. Ryan Leaf, the Montana boy Montana loved to hate. How does it sit with you?

Oh, brutal. As a kid at the time now i'm like now i'm almost self-deprecating about it because i kind of i feel like it kind of fuels my content sometimes i i know what i know what removes power from things now. I didn't know then. What removes power? Taking ownership. Being transparent and vulnerable so everybody knows the stuff. The ending of 8 Mile when Eminem's character B-Rabbit

steps up to the mic and just tells everybody all the shit. And then the guy's supposed to get up and how's he supposed to diss somebody that he told everybody before? That's right. So that removes the power i named my podcast bust you know i sell merchandise with it i make money off it like that's oh that's interesting you do you consider yourself a bust no okay but i'm the only one who can say that though yeah right like if someone says to you like you can't call me a bust yeah i can call myself a bust it's just that's

just an ownership thing for me on so if somebody calls you a bust what what is your reaction because the narrative the historical narrative would be number two draft pick and then how many years did you compete five five um and the reason you left was because i was sick and tired of being beat up physically mentally and i was starting I had started to develop those mental health issues when I was in Seattle. It's amazing to think that what backup quarterbacks make these days, but I also couldn't deal with the fact that I was a backup quarterback and not a starting quarterback.

Yeah, I know. There's ego there. Well, there's a huge fall from grace. There's a different pressure being top 10. Well, that's what's been so impressive with what we've seen from Sam Darnold and Baker Mayfield. The fact that they're on their fourth teams, respectively, and Baker got a $100 million extension, and Sam's about to get a huge extension this offseason. I mean, it really showcases and might help lead to the understanding for people that were so quick to judgment. A lot of times, it's about where you go.

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Again, that's Felix Gray. You spell it F-E-L-I-X-G-R-A-Y.com and use the code FindingMastery20 at FelixGray.com for 20% off. So I think you'll really love this story. And I imagine you might place yourself in the story I'm about to share with you. So obviously it was at the Seahawks for nine seasons, two Super Bowls, amazing run. Geno Smith, top draft pick. Okay. Now we find we're able to get Geno on the team. He's sitting behind Russ, Russell Wilson, who's a phenomenal competitor, great competitor. And so on the sidelines, imagine this, on the sidelines, Geno and I, he'd be on headset. I'm standing right next to him.

And we have a game plan for game day. We did a bunch of work outside of that. He was on on headset. I'm standing right next to him and we have a game plan for game day. We did a bunch of work outside of that. He was on the podcast. He taught, he tells a story in first person, which is awesome how he describes it. So he's on a headset. He, he gets the call coming in and then I asked him to make the call just as if he was in the huddle. We did this for three seasons, I think. So he says, blue 80, da, da, da, da, da, da, da. And he calls it out. And the first time he does it, I say,

that's not how you'd say it, dude, come on. And so he's like, all right. And so he goes into it, like, and he's loud and dramatic. And then, so we did that. And then I would have him progress and say, call your shot. And then, so he'd look and he goes, he'd say, Doug Baldwin on the curl. So he would go through the progressions. And um we'd add imagery physical imagery into it so he'd snap his

hip a little bit as he's making the call or as he's saying doug baldwin on the curl and then he'd like throw it and see it and feel it on the sidelines imagine that type of mental rep engagement for three four years or whatever yeah like i'm sure that I know what happens on most teams and I'm not going to get on a soapbox here. There's a lot of good programs that are out there, but that was awesome. And Gino's like, Gino's balling out right now, as you would recognize.

Yeah, he just made like $6 million on Sunday. How about it? And incentives. How about it? On getting 10 wins. I think it was 10 wins over so many yards and touchdowns i mean it was just yeah yeah that was a it's been a real success to watch him be able to do that how did you let's go let's do a couple things i i want to get to

the choices you made to find yourself in prison. Yeah. Or to create, you know, a prison life there. But I also want to understand like your first game. First time you put on pads in practice. First NFL game, no issues. Against the San Francisco 49ers, a preseason game. Steve Young's the quarterback for the 49ers. Like this guy just, you I just looked up to, and he just won a Super Bowl a few years previous.

And we go out in the preseason game, and I play so much better than him, and we win, and I'm almost perfect, and I'm just kind of like, okay, this is how it's supposed to go. It was not too big for you no it wasn't too big for me and then i go on when my first two starts in the regular season and no one had done that since john elway in 1983 and so describe your mindset going into those games if you can go back so buffalo in week one and it was just a show like it was just a huge

thing the fan base was just through the roof i was considered the savior of the city like it was just a show. Like, it was just a huge thing. The fan base was just through the roof. I was considered the savior of the city. Like, it was a big deal. And then, you know, right off the bat, we roll out this play-action play, and I throw, like, a 58-yard pass down the field. Like, just this high-arcing, perfect spiral that goes about 50 yards. Wait, this is one of your first passes in the regular season? Yeah. And normally what a coach would do is say,

listen, let's just get loose, you know, three yard out, maybe even a toss or a lateral, and you're throwing a 50-yard bomb? Well, Coach Gilbride had everything layered into a passing route, and that's why Warren Moon was so good in his offense. You have the little flat route. You have the intermediary crosser, and then you have the shot. And that's like a five-yard cross. Yeah, and then you have the shot where you have the post.

And you took the shot? Well, because the safety came down. I mean, I did exactly what— So you're really aware. Yeah, I'm really aware of what the defense was doing and what they were taking away and what they were taking away and what they were not and what it ultimately and he we talked about it like coach gilbride was a genius offensively and so he knew what the route was meant to do the mount the route was

meant to pull that safety down over that shallow cross and if it's there take it and then the post was going to come open up and he just did he outran him i in that's the one thing i'll say i always had is just a you know i've had a cannon for an arm so you weren't gonna outrun my arm and uh i'd laid it in there perfectly got pulled down on the five yard line and then i threw a touchdown and play later in some respects this is maybe the worst things that could happen because now the chip is fueled you're this competitive like see me now see me i told you so i told you i'm built for this when actually you had built a shell around you to protect yourself around success yeah and then what happens when failure happens let's go and so week three so we go down to tenn the next week. I beat Steve McNair in my second start on the road.

And all of a sudden Pepsi comes in and gives me this big endorsement deal with Pepsi. And I'm just like, okay, this is how it was supposed to be. Now, I slid on the turf at vanderbilt in that game and i got a turf burn they didn't clean out the debris in my wound and i think it was tuesday i came into the facility and are we talking college nope vanderbilt because tennessee had moved up oh that's right they played there's still in the yeah so it was in that old vanderbilt stadium with that bad turf and everything like that. It was hot that day.

And so we're playing Kansas City the next week. I come into work on Tuesday, and I'm just – well, as it turns out, I have a staph infection. So they hospitalized me, and I'm on IVs and antibiotics. Oh, that happened fast. Through the whole week. Yeah. And coaches are bringing the tapes over at night. I don't practice once that week.

And we're going to Arrowhead on Sunday. And I just beg them and beg them and beg them to let me play. It was going to be that moment. It was going to be the Michael Jordan flu game, right? It was going to be. This is your third game? Yeah. Okay.

I'm 2-0. Uh-huh. And I convinced them to let me play i remember my mom telling me don't play don't play like she was were your parents in your corner yeah i do i do believe that they were i think mom was more guarded my dad's a two tour vietnam veteran who's seen shit and so he was always like marcia my mother his name was like relax marcia this isn't a big big deal okay you know just but she was so worried about what other people thought do you come from an anxious highly anxious father no my father is highly anxious mom yes okay your father what what was going on for him

man i just can't imagine coming home from vietnam getting spit on by people and raising three boys building a business that's interesting i asked about your dad and you went to empathy about your dad yeah yeah okay so dad had he's my hero dad's here yeah he's i mean the integrity and character um the business that in which he uh has worked in for years and years and years annuity bonds in annuity bonding yeah like that's all about transparency integrity and character and uh so yeah i mean my dad is what is the emotion that i'm pride no that is this pride right now yeah okay of him proud of proud of your dad so your dad faced some real heavy stuff you faced some real heavy stuff but no one saw him facing it i think it's the difference no one

saw you you facing it no him everybody saw him everyone saw you facing oh so it's more private yeah i mean his was just it's a vietnam vet yeah i i started working with combat vets so in the last few years you know transition of taking off that uniform very similar to to professional athletes and i got my dad to come to one of the sessions and I'd never heard any of the stuff in my life, but he was able to, his stories, but he was able to, because there were peers there that had been in combat and he could relate.

Have you and your dad found a unique closeness about the criticism, the pain, the, the not being seen no i've tried to get him to go to alan on he just won't do it because i think he for whatever reason i think he thinks it's a like i'm not the problem yeah you know maybe maybe he's right in there. But I've found that the Al-Anon side of things has built better relationships for people who maybe don't understand the world of addiction. Yeah. Yeah.

AA is Alcoholics Anonymous. CA, Cocaine, or NA, Narcotics Anonymous. Sorry. And Al-Anon is for family members with fear of father of an addict. That's right. And so I like our relationship now. I gave him the grandkids late in life. I'm going to be an old dad. We have a one-year-old at home.

How old are you? i'm 48 so she'll be i'll be 65 when she graduates high school so i'll be an old old dad oh my god i know um it keeps me young though you know i'm just i'm just glad i didn't have kids until after i had a different way of thinking yeah i would have hated to have put my children through something like that and that doesn't mean my kids aren't gonna have to walk through a lot of fire because kids can be brutal and they'll you know their dad's gonna be probably made fun of to them but um but we're also much different in how we educate our kids in terms of like we don't – we're not ashamed of anything. So we – like my son knows pretty much the whole story already.

He's seven years old. I mean he doesn't in the car with us. And a cop car pulled by and the kid goes, hey, dad, dad, look, there's a police car. And MacGyver, who's my son, is in the back there and he goes, my dad doesn't like the police. And I go, what? What are you talking about right now? He's like, well, you don't. They put you in jail.

And I'm like, yeah, good point, kid. Good point, kid. Yeah. All right. So was that third game the beginning of the end? Career was over after that game. Yeah. I played three games and won two of them.

My career was over. Not because of how I played, but because of how I dealt with it. Period. So I go out. They shoot me up with whatever they shoot me up with. I swear to God, it's got adrenaline in it or whatever. I go out and have an unbelievable warm-up. I mean, I am

accurate. I am loose. I am ready to go. Just as we're going in before pregame and the anthem, the sky is just closing. And it is one of the worst rainstorm games that you've ever seen. There is water coming down pregame and the anthem, the skies just close in. And it is one of the worst rainstorm games that you've ever seen. There is water coming down the aisles of Arrowhead that are nutty.

And I complete my first pass, a little bootleg to our tight end, one for one for four yards. My final stat line is one for 15 for four yards, two interceptions, three fumbles. It's one of the worst stat lines that have ever existed. But it was awful. Rich Gannon was the quarterback for Kansas City, and his stat line was horrible too.

I mean, no one could hold him to the ball. It was just, you know, it was bad. But I was so humiliated and embarrassed. I don't think I've ever – Coach Price even made the point to me. I don't know if I'd ever played a bad game you know there are maybe even some moments where there's some bad moments but i was always just this is why i want to talk about early success because i don't think it leaves much room to understand how to deal with the hardships when there's like you know this is you see it now in zamboni parenting where

parents not helicopter parenting but zamboni where they just smooth the ice out for the kids yeah and so they don't know how to deal with the chips and the divots and the the you know the chunky part of skating on ice yeah and so this is in some form or fashion what you experienced all right so terrible showing i'm in the locker room after the game. I take two IVs. I remember I was just dehydrated, like two full IVs after the game. And I'm standing by my locker. And this is 1998, so these cameras aren't the same. They have these huge batteries on the back of them, right?

And I stand up, and there's one of the cameramen there, and he kind of turns, and the back part of the battery just smokes me in the side of the head and I lose it on him projecting everything that I was feeling the embarrassment and humiliation and I didn't think too much of it you know it was in the locker room but you know I came to to realize what what it meant the next morning with a beat writer was in the locker room and wrote about it wrote about the petulant child losing a game and then taking it out on a on a camera camera and i remember reading it as i'm going into the office to watch the film of the worst game i've ever played and have to, you know, deal with it. And so I said, you know what,

I'm going to show this guy who's boss, you know, and we do the little gaggle after the walkthrough, all the reporters, I give the answers. I don't think there was really much of anything, but I remember just focusing and looking at that beat writer while I'm talking about everything else, knowing that when this is over, when everybody starts to disperse, I'm going to confront them. And that's exactly what I did. I confronted him and I told him that we're going to have to have a long relationship because I'm going to be here for a long time. The locker room is a sacred place. And like a good reporter or a good beat writer, you know, he kind of baits you a little bit.

And then I pick him up and I slam him down into a chair. And there's a cameraman in the corner of the locker room. And he pivots around. And it's the viral video. And there weren't viral videos really then. The internet had just started. And I just look like a child. You know.

Junior sale rushes in. Grabs me. Puts me in the shower. Turns on the cold water. We'll talk about this. You know in a minute. Baby boy. He used to call me.

And. And that was it. Now if I would have come out the next week against New York and thrown four touchdowns, maybe it's a different scenario, but I threw four interceptions, and they ran a Make-A-Wish commercial that got booed, me and some terminally ill kids. On the big screen, it gets booed.

I went from being the savior of the city to being the bum in two weeks. My career was over because of how I dealt with it and would continue to deal with it in a negative and toxic way over the next two and a half years that I was on the roster with the San Diego Chargers. It was always me against the world. Finding Mastery is brought to you by Cozy Earth. Over the years, I've learned that recovery doesn't just happen when we sleep. It starts with how we transition and wind down. And that's why I've

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mastery at checkout for 20% off your first order. That's calderalab, C-A-L-D-e-r-l-a-b.com slash finding mastery what did you think of that moniker that you you sounds like maybe you earned a crying ryan never really got it i also get after people but like you know you don't need to do the crying Ryan. It's C-R-Y-A-N. You already have the Ryan and crying. That's the joke. It's just crying leaf. That's the joke.

I never really got it, but I guess people did. Did it start from this thing? Yeah, probably. Couldn't handle the whatever. Couldn't handle it. Couldn't handle the pressure. Couldn't cut it. Everybody back home could say we had told you so we always knew he was head case he was never going to be able to do this you know so so um yeah i don't remember

another good thing the rest of my career okay I mean, I had some good games. There were some good stops. My time in Tampa, unbelievable. Tony Dungy was the head coach. I had wrecked my wrist by then. You can still see me do it. It still pops out of joint there. Yeah, look at that. Oh, you heard that one too.

Oh my God. Okay. So that would happen in a game and I'd be pounding it on my thigh pad. So injuries affected how my talent would allow me to be. And you have to be super on point at that level. I mean, it's the best of the best. And so a long ways in the next few stops. And my last stop was in Seattle with Mike Holmgren. You know, I had really started to, you know, it was hard getting out of bed.

Because? I was depressed. Yeah, okay. okay i felt lazy i was overweight i was sad all the time so i didn't know they were mental illnesses i just because we don't know that and i'd never seen a peer or a man growing up where I grew up and then in locker rooms go, I'm really struggling here. Can you help me? I'd never seen it or heard it. We don't see it in movies or anything either. It wasn't depicted. And so how would I have known to do that?

And I remember thinking, what if I would have went into Coach Holmgren's office and told him all those things? Like, I'm not sleeping. I can't get out of bed. I feel lazy. And what if he goes, all all right let's go figure out what's going on get you the help that you need maybe i'm the starting quarterback for the seahawks in super bowl 40 when you think of that frame let's call it uh in the 90s and now 2025 and we think about the stigma there's a lot that's changed there's a lot that's changed. There's a lot that's changed,

but it's the last hurdle. And I don't, too many people are still, have been taught this because you just don't come out of the womb and go, those people are strange, those people are wrong. You're open-minded about science

and understand the data behind it. You know that a lot of these instances especially around mental illness or substance use disorder they're diseases so what do you think is the last hurdle here stigma and the stigma how do we how do you think we go about changing the stigma and the stigma right now is um well let's go 20-some years ago was don't talk about it. Suck it up. Put some dirt on it. Be tough.

Be a man. This is the definition of stigma that I think perfectly illustrates it. You are more fearful that someone may know you need help than getting the help that you need. That is, to me, the definition of what stigma is. And it runs rampant. It will stop people from talking about trauma, past trauma, abuse as children because of the fear that someone may know that and that's embarrassing or it is not accepted or all those things. That's what stigma is. And for me, during my addiction, that stigma ran rampant because I didn't want anybody to know.

I was already this failed football player. I don't need to be this junky, insane person. Especially if it's tabbed as being weak. Yeah. So the changing of the stigma, I think, one is we need the cool kids like you to talk about it. And that's what I'm doing.'s right we need we need elite athletes we need the quote-unquote popular ones you know because on camp high school campuses athletes tend to be really popular yeah college campuses you know a lot of eyes on them and so when the cool kids can talk about it and say hey look um there's a there's a physical part of the game a technical strategy strategic and

there's a mental part of the game and this is what now i'm going to go into first person for me this is what i've seen the best of the best of the best they don't want to leave any of that unturned so meant the mental part of life and their game is radically important because they understand to me for me to be my very best consistently i need to be dialed in between the years and i was when I was in college. I sat and met with a sports psychologist every week. I didn't. And I think it's from the optics of how it's handed to you.

So when I was in San Diego and they assigned me a sports psychologist, I saw it as a negative thing because things were going bad. And I was the problem. This will fix it. Things were going unbelievably good. And I was making the choice to go see him every Wednesday night. Isn't that amazing? Yeah. It's just amazing the difference.

The idea of immediately getting a nutritionist and eating the right food. I mean, the stuff that I've implemented in the last four years alone in terms of wellness, what I should have been doing 25 years ago, is amazing. I'm at my plain weight. I was pre-diabetic coming out of prison, about to stroke out from high blood pressure. And now everything is based around that that the food that we put in you know it's all uh it's all paleo it's on all non-processed it's water we have a cold plunge

we put a gym in the house i mean how that's influenced the way my kids eat my kids eating brussels sprouts and cauliflower now i didn't have any that till i was like 38 years old you know so it's just it's evolution i do think the stigma is going to be the last hurdle and it's going to continuation of what's going to limit people from masking and getting the help that they need. So it's important to do this. And I would argue maybe I'm not even the cool kid because of what the prison stint has been. Because I go into prisons now and talk to the guys and I tell them a lot of the time that this is more my set. This is more my club. I don't feel really comfortable out there.

Wait, you feel more connected to the prison inmates? Yeah. How long did you stay in prison? Three years. And what was the crime that got you there? Burglary and possession. So I didn't know a drug dealer. I had become a dick.

The only drug I've ever taken is prescription opioid. And I had 15 surgeries playing sports. So I was always given this medication for the acute pain after the fact. And it worked. It took away that acute pain. And then when I could start competing and rehabbing again, you know, I didn't take it anymore. And so I'd love to blame my career on being strung out and stuff like that, but I didn't start abusing pain medication until after I quit.

And so you were, who'd you burglarize? Oh, my hometown. That's when I talked about how I went back and victimized my hometown. Oh, okay. So I would just go to friends' houses, pretending I was interested in spending time with them, excuse myself to the bathroom,

or I would look up open houses in the newspaper, go pretend I was interested in the house. They'd give you free reign of the house while the owners aren't there. And then at the end, you know, just on the outskirts of my hometown, just knocking on doors and if no one answered and the door was unlocked, I'd let myself in. And at that time, nine times out of ten,

homes would have some sort of opiate painkiller in their medicine cabinet, whether they went to get their wisdom teeth pulled at one point and only took like two of their pills. It was crazy. My hometown became my drug dealer. I'm hyperbolic when I say this, but in some ways I'm not. I tell them a lot of the time, if you felt like from 2010 to 2012 that when you came home something was off or something was weird or you felt like maybe someone may have been in your house i probably was in your house how do you um

how did prison change you well it didn't change me at all at first i mean for 26 of the 32 months I was locked up, I did nothing. I ballooned to 325 pounds, didn't leave my cell, went outside twice in those three years, had a little 13-inch flat screen at the end of my bed

that had the NFL red zone. I mean, prison isn't a deterrent. It's just another society. It's the reason why we're the most heavily populated prison population in the world. And so, you know, I don't know. I tell this story all the time because it's the truth, but it's, I mean, where I was headed was not a good place.

If I could die, I would have rather died at the time were you actively suicidal i just i i didn't have the work ethic to make it work in there yeah it sounds like it was more deep despair it was depressed yeah i was yeah i was clinically depressed and i was not diagnosed or i i was not diagnosed and I wasn't treating it. So my higher power, whatever that is, in its infinite wisdom, sent the sheriff's department to save my life one night when I got arrested. You never know who it's going to be to have the hand in that. But I didn't do anything. I didn't view it as that.

And then I didn't view my roommate who ended up being another example. My roommate was an Afghan-Iraqi war veteran and he had been home on leave and he did something that most people do. He went out drinking and drove that night and he killed somebody. He'd spent his last eight years in there at 23 and was like not resolute with being that person and so he tried to change every single day he did he was getting his ged or not his gd he was trying to study for his act so when he got out he could get into college and get his engineering degree. He wanted to be a helicopter pilot.

I mean, there was all this optimism and goal setting. And I remember looking at him a few times going, what are you doing? No one cares that you're doing this. We're losers. Look at us. We're numbers. We're a vet and at us. We're numbers. We're a vet and a former NFL player.

Those are not losers. I know. But that was the psychology. That's the psychology of where I was at. And I remember the judge when he told me that. The judge was like, I don't feel like you could contribute to society at all. I'm going to give you a number. I'm going to warehouse you. Oof. I'm going to give you a number. I'm going to warehouse you.

I remember that. Yeah. And I thought, yeah, that's about right. So luckily for me, he didn't listen to me at all. Thank God. A few weeks later or a month, I can't remember, he'd had enough of my attitude. And he just confronted me one day and was like –

You were a cellmate. Yeah. I never got into the nomenclature of prison, so I always called him my roommate. I wouldn't do it. I wouldn't, like, say celly. I wouldn't say block. I wouldn't say – I don't know. It was another way for me to control something, I guess, while I was in there.

Yeah, right. Sure, sure. You know, I did a bunch of different things to try to do that. Like, I would make the guards go get my mail, and I would grow my facial hair out until they made me go down and take a new ID picture. And then as soon as I got back to the room, I'd shave it all off. Which is complicated because you say you feel more like them then. But when you were there, you did not want to be like them. Finding Mastery is brought to you by iRestore. When it comes to my health, I try to approach things with a proactive mindset.

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we give ourselves the best chance to operate at our best, physically, cognitively, emotionally, sleep affects it all. That's why I care about the environment that I sleep in so much. And of course, emotionally, sleep affects it all. That's why I care about the environment that I sleep in so much. And of course, a great mattress, it matters. One of our teammates here at Finding Mastery has been sleeping on a Lisa mattress for over a year now, and it's made a noticeable difference. They specifically chose one from their chill collection because they sleep hot, something I know many of us can relate to, myself included. What are they reporting back? Fewer wake-ups, deeper rest, and feeling more recovered

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L E E S a.com. The promo code is finding mastery for 25% off and then plus an extra $50 on us because quality sleep is just too important to leave to chance. I didn't want to be like the guards. These were all the guards I was fucking with. Okay, got it. And the rest of the inmates, they love

me because I would fuck with the guards. Got it. You know? And the warden would come down and ask me to go speak to groups that would come in and i'd tell the warden to beat it so you provoke power yeah well in there for sure and they're like in there for sure this is one of the reasons you didn't get intimidated by the big lights the big stage the great quarterback across the field and it's kind of why i'm really able to speak truth to power now sometimes to the detriment of me it's cost me a job over the last couple years

um but i also don't feel like i have anything to lose you don. My wife says different now. With two kids, you do have something to lose. It's your work. But then something comes along like the last mile and I don't have to be beholden to these network television people anymore. But I have an actual platform

that not only do they want the vulnerable, transparent, honest version of me in this job, but they need that. They need somebody to shake the tree. They need somebody to make a little noise. What do you want people to know about The Last Mile? I want them to know it's purposeful for people who are just looking for hope. I mean, that's the biggest thing that prison takes away for a lot of people

is that hope that you can do anything. Like there was no hope for me when I went in. There was barely any hope for me when I walked out. And the only reason there was was because that day my roommate confronted me. He said I didn't understand the value that I had, not only for the men in there, but for when I got out. He said, Ryan, you're going to get out at some point. I may never. And he suggested we go down to the prison library and help prisoners learn how to read who didn't know how to read. Now, I've had so many of those come to Jesus moments in my life, from mentors,

from coaches, from doctors, from from family and for whatever reason I just I was the one in control I you don't I got this big strong football player so I went but I still went you know like begrudgingly I remember still walking down the hallway in my red jumpsuit in a prison hallway like metaphorically kicking rocks thinking this is stupid this isn't going to help me doesn't he know how important i am and that therein lies the problem right the guy that's in a prison jumpsuit in a prison hallway who still thinks he's important there's something there that yearning to be seen to be important yeah is was still there even under you know under and it's still there yeah it's just it's ironic it was in that setting however it's probably incredibly healthy in one respect like don't you realize who i am what i can give and my inherent value and you're going to have me use all

of my talent to teach somebody how to read yeah Yeah. Yeah. And we walk into that library. And it was probably a, I don't know, 60-year-old Native American man who walks up and says, Hey, Ryan, never learned how to read. Been faking it my whole life. Can you help me? And so, A, first time I've ever heard that from anybody, looked at him like, What the hell's wrong with you? And then went to work.

What have you been faking? I think up to that point, what other people thought of me was none of my business, was something I was faking. It was like every bit of my business. It's something my therapist and i have heartedly worked on as an affirmation in the mirror and i say it every day whatever what other people think of me is none of my business i believe it now like i remember the first like 60 days i was saying in the mirror it was like through gritted teeth you know because you just don't believe it you don't train your brain until you train your brain you've been faking that what others think of you and what they have to say

about you doesn't pierce you right and the truth is it really got in there it did uh especially around my childhood yeah that trauma that trauma was a lot there was a lot of different things there was women you know i a group of you know kids from the west side you know played pranks on me with girls when i was a kid it was a big reason why i think i objectified women my most of my life like i was never going to get hurt type of mentality again so i mean there's a lot that's changed in the 10 years. It's just been over, my anniversary was December 3rd that I got out 10 years. So,

you know, and when I walked out, it was December 3rd, 2014. And so, going and helping them learn how to read, which ultimately became me being the TA for the substance use counselor while I was in there,

when I found that I was being of service to another human being for the first time in my life. I used to think what I did on Saturdays and Sundays was me being of service. And as a narcissist, because I got diagnosed with a narcissistic personality disorder, which I assume most professional athletes probably have in some way, shape, or form. Not full diagnoses.

Not full. Also, I was diagnosed the night I got arrested and had just thrown a bunch of pills in my mouth. So I can't even imagine what the ER doctor was, some of the stuff I was saying. Yeah. The grandiosity of maybe – that was one of the first times I ever saw the diagnosis. So that was kind of a flippant one. I've never got the actual diagnosis from a psychiatrist while in treatment or anything like that. But I like to use it in the idea that my narcissism was rooted in the idea that for my life to get better, it had to be all about me.

What you could give me. What I got out of the deal and what i found in these last 10 years and that and that listen this may just work for me i don't believe that to be true but when i make it about somebody else my life gets better that's really cool it that sounds like 12 step did a lot there for you yeah i mean the service aspect of things right did you work all 12 steps yeah you have we've done it i've done it multiple times with my sponsor we That sounds like 12-step did a lot there for you. Yeah. I mean, the service aspect of things, right? Did you work all 12 steps? Yeah.

I've done it multiple times with my sponsor. We go back at it years later because there'll be numerous resentments that come to light. Yeah. I find five and nine to be the tricky ones. Yeah. You know, I'm not an addict, but I love the 12-step process. And nine is the amends where you've got to go to folks and be like hey listen um five is that radical inventory you know well four is the inventory um and then five's telling somebody yeah telling somebody that yeah thank you four is the inner

work five is is disclosing the first three are just like the first three are real simple you can get through those in a hurry. You can just be like... There's a higher power. Yeah, there's like I got a problem I can't control. There's somebody that can help me. I think I'll let them. Those are the first three. And that's as hard as hell for people.

Look, I think Bill and Bob, the founders of AA, who wrote the the big book like the brilliance in these 12 steps in the simplicity yeah and the the community is just radical there's everyone's got warts you know like but brilliant it's amazing i've lived in every corner of the country and i went and and got sober in Southern California down here. And the recovery community is unreal down here. Yeah, it's strong.

It's 2,500 meetings a week. That's Hollywood, too. It's strong. And I ended up going to a private meeting here, invited to a private meeting, where there were people in that room that are known throughout our world. I know the meaning. By one name. Probably. Probably.

Yeah. And what I learned in that was it taught me everything. Because I didn't know how to be a sober public person. Yeah. And they taught me everything. And it's so near and dear to me. And I was so sad because it's on Monday nights. Oh.

And I didn't get until this morning and i i just wanted to yeah but the rams play next monday night and i might have to do some work around that so maybe i could be around cool um that would be huge uh for me so before we before that we take this last turn here on the conversation is let's let's re-establish your point of view on failure. So we started the narrative. I have a hard time thinking that somebody fails in life. Do they underperform? Sure. But there's all these micro choices when you dissect and decode what the outcome, when you work backwards based on the outcome that you're looking at so compartmentalizations for me failure is the inability or unwillingness to go for it

to go for it to go for it okay that's how i think about i like that yeah and in your case it's not go for it to throw a ball anymore it's to go for it to be honest to face um to face the early shame and examine your inner life. That would be what going forward is now. So it's not going into the high-performance look at me. It's the opposite. I think the definition of life is how to fail. Keep going. So I think we all fail.

I think that for the longest time, I didn't look at what my life had been was anywhere of a failure. But I've been carried a lot of the way. You know, you just have snapshots of things that look that way. So when I'm out speaking to groups now, I like to do this little experiment. And I say, this might be the easiest identifier for you out there take peyton manning put him on that side of the stage take ryan leaf on this side of the stage i want you guys to point out the success and the failure and that i said that seems very easy does

it and doesn't it and then i said okay what if i told you wait who's the success and who's the failure yeah is that okay that's what i asked them i said it seems probably pretty easy for you to identify that and i said what if i were to tell you that both of them are 48 years old both of them have two kids a family both work uh and own their own production companies and are broadcasters and do a ton in philanthropy, which one would you say that they're both successes? Or are you willing to just compartmentalize and say this span of time, whether it was eight to ten years or something like that, where one was a Hall of Fame football player and the other one wasn't.

In fact, the other one was a drug addict felon. Is that an anchor enough to remove future success? And I think that what the story and the lesson I'm telling them is that it doesn't matter what has ever happened in your past as long as you always got back up or you never. And so I use the idea that we're all the same, that we're all these flawed human beings trying to be better every single day. A lot of times we fail, but if we have a good enough perspective and an understanding and are self-aware enough to know that that's how life is, you'll get up and try to do it differently and better tomorrow. Success is multidimensional. It's not financial. It's not just –

I used to think it was financial a lot yeah you know anytime i feel anxious or i feel um you know vibrating uh i just go i just go down we built a gym in the house i go down to the gym there you go or i go and sit in that cold plunge and i breathe there you go that that's really helped me with the centering aspect of things i mean i couldn't spend more than 30 seconds in there when i first started you know and you're 36 degrees and you're just like i think the walk to the plunge is as important yes as the actual experience in the plunge you need to you need to be great in both of those if you want to create a change but just getting in a cold tub suffering or walking to a cold tub like man i'm so weak i hate this. What's wrong with me? Everyone else is so strong when they do it.

I see it on social media. They just do it so great. Why am I? All of that is like pairing hardship with negative, quote unquote, self-talk. So the walk to the plunge and then the actual narrative that you're having with yourself in the adverse challenging moment is equally as important. It's always, like always negotiating with myself on well three minutes but if i do if i do a minute 30 that you know that will be that's my pressure yeah that's good um so yeah i mean i just the choice to be you can just wake up and choose to be happy and then if things feel like

the day has not gone the way you you you feel like it should you can up and choose to be happy. And then if things feel like the day has not gone the way you feel like it should, you can choose to start your day over again. I believe that. I totally do. It's a completely different mindset than I've ever had in my life. And it's because of the things that I've actually got to experience. I would call it success. I would too. Yeah. experience i would call it success i would too yeah i'm in i'm in i'm incredibly successful

when i like just as like i can be one of the best athletes that ever exists i can be as it turns out i'm a pretty darn good businessman i didn't think that was something i i i i could do well turns out i'm a good husband. I'm a success as a father. Those were two things. The multidimensional pieces. Yes. And so.

Your three years in prison is not marking life success or failure. And it shouldn't for anybody. Yeah. And that's the stigma of it. So the last mile brings to fruition the idea that there's hope. You did something wrong, doesn't make you a bad person, and you can have the life of your dreams if you're willing to view it through the lens that is a reality. And I know there's roadblocks all through with the criminal justice system, and that's the criminal justice reform we're trying to change with um i told you i'm gonna meet with the and interview the

the los angeles district attorney tomorrow so he ran as an independent um and was voted in uh you know in a landslide so i think he's got a real chance to make some real change. Ryan, I'm inspired by how you showed up, explained with great insight, how you've navigated your life, how you've been, you allowed emotions to be at the surface with this conversation. And at the same time, you know,

clearly articulate pain, trauma choices, some better than others. Yeah. and i still make poor choices yeah and like you the way you've unpacked failure success early childhood successes in particular and how you're navigating the next chapter of your life um congratulations on sorting some stuff out because i don't think i think it's really hard to do from a prison framing so like congratulations on that would it be okay if i just shared a few my take on you yeah would that be cool yeah highly open to experiences and ideas um slightly neurotic were really neurotic early on but have reduced that neuroticism more grounded

now than you probably ever felt but um you come with a like a stimulated um approach of life it's not you i know you want to say uh depressed i think it's more of that anxiety at this point you know which is going to fuel you in some ways, I think. Not agreeable. You're not just going to swallow ideas as they come. It goes through your tumbler. You will discern and not just agree to be part of something. So I think that that is where you get your independence from, liking to poke the bear, if you will. Highly conscientious. You really care about doing right your autonomy is really high your relationships with others is really high and your your competence is clear so i think you're a highly motivated individual that wants to do good in the world which is what kind of the ultimate aim for

most of us to ascribe for, do something positive with your time here. All 11 world religions have spoke to that thing that I'm experiencing from you. I think that you're probably free from the criticalness that drove you at an early age. And I don't think you've displayed that anymore on other people, but there was a, I'm not sure I would have wanted to be your friend. I don't know that, but I certainly wouldn't want to be on the other side of it. I'm not certain that at a young age, I'd want to be in your head. But yeah, I think you have addressed that shame and critique in a meaningful way, which is maybe one of your greatest accomplishments to be able

to do that i think that uh i think it's what i i had to find a way to to remove power of of shame and guilt and that's right and that's the way that's just kind of the way to do it you just this is this is something that i've just come to realize in probably the last six months is that i'm more confident now as a human being than i ever was as a starting quarterback i i would absolutely recognize that in you and that that when i first realized that that was that was dumbfounding for me because that was it's like you're grounded yeah it's not that i wouldn't even use the word confident because you're probably chip let's go bring it it was the the stadium was not too big for you you let it rip your first three games you know i

and you had others moments i'm sure too but i don't think it's it's deeper than just the transactional nature of confidence it's much deeper i don't feel like the only way maybe i could rattle you is if i went after wife and kids if i went after parents um or i called you a bust i think even that doesn't i don't think no yeah so you my point is you don't seem easily rattled. Yeah. My wife gets a kick out of it how quick I am to have a witty comeback. Because I just don't take myself very seriously when it comes to that stuff.

Yeah, that's cool. And that's helped me a ton. The self-deprecation yep um the owning it um you know and i think i'm funny so my brother's a comedian is he yeah so everybody's always talked about how my middle brother's this funny guy i said i'm the i'm the funny one and i am the funny one ryan congratulations on um what you've been through and where you're going. Thank you. Thank you for coming through. Yeah, thanks for reaching out.

This has been great. Yeah, I wanted to have you in here for a long time. That's really neat to hear. Yeah, thanks, mate. That was an awesome conversation. Emma, that's a tough act to follow. Who do we have up next? This one might just do it.

We actually have the one and only Mr. John Paul DeGioia. Are you excited about this one? I'm very excited. I mean, I've been looking forward to it. Okay, for the odd one that might not know who he is, JP as his friends call him, John Paul DeGioia. He is a self-made billionaire. He's a philanthropist.

He went from living in his car to co-founding John Paul Mitchell Systems and Patron Tequila. His whole life, it's a masterclass in generosity and resilience and kindness. He is a breath of fresh air. I cannot wait for you to enjoy this conversation. This is going to be an awesome episode. All right. Thank you so much for diving into another episode of Finding Mastery with us. Our team loves creating this podcast and sharing these conversations with you. We really appreciate you being part of this community. And if you're enjoying the show, the easiest no cost way to support is to hit the subscribe or follow button wherever you're listening. Also, if you haven't already, please consider dropping us a review on Apple or Spotify.

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