Finding Mastery with Dr. Michael Gervais - NHL Hall Of Famer | From Underdog to Hockey Legend ; Luc Robitaille - LA Kings President

Episode Date: October 8, 2025

What if being overlooked; dismissed as too slow or too average, was actually the foundation for becoming one of the greatest of all time?On today’s episode, we sit down with Luc Robitaille; Hockey Hall of Famer, NHL’s all-time leading left-wing scorer, Stanley Cup champion, and President of the LA Kings. Recorded live at the California Surf Club, Luc pulls back the curtain on the mindset that carried him from ninth-round afterthought to hockey immortality: the daily commitment to get a little better, the discipline to quiet corrosive self-talk, and the belief that being underestimated can be a gift.Luc’s story is the stuff of legend. In this candid, emotionally intelligent conversation, we dig into self-talk, flow, and the small daily behaviors that compound into greatness—plus how to transition from athlete to executive without losing your edge (or your humanity).You’ll learn:How to move from negative mind → positive mind → no mind (flow)The simple rituals Luc used to build consistency and confidenceWhy service to the team is the quickest path out of doubtHow elite organizations align inputs (not just talk about “winning”)What modern leadership looks like when you prioritize peopleIf you’ve ever been underestimated—or are leading people who are—this conversation will give you a grounded blueprint for turning doubt into durable confidence.Links & ResourcesSubscribe to our Youtube Channel for more conversations at the intersection of high performance, leadership, and wellbeing: https://www.youtube.com/c/FindingMasteryGet exclusive discounts and support our amazing sponsors! Go to: https://findingmastery.com/sponsors/Subscribe to the Finding Mastery newsletter for weekly high performance insights: https://www.findingmastery.com/newsletter Download Dr. Mike's Morning Mindset Routine: findingmastery.com/morningmindset!Follow on YouTube, Instagram, LinkedIn, and XSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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Post your job for free at LinkedIn.com slash finding mastery. That's LinkedIn.com slash finding mastery to post your job for free. Terms and conditions apply. In those days, the draft was one day. So it was a Saturday, and I think it started 11, and I went there for the first pick. So I sat there, and then second round came, and the third round came, and the fourth round came, I never heard my name. What if being overlooked, dismissed as too slow, too average, was actually the foundation for becoming one of the greatest of all time? And it was 7 p.m., if I recall.

And at the time, it was on the 9th rounds, I heard my name, and I get drafted, and there were no bitterness or anything. I was not like, I'm going to show them that they were wrong. It was never that. It was, my name's on the list. It's up to me. Welcome back. Welcome to the Finding Mastery podcast, where we dive into the minds of the world's greatest thinkers and doers.

I'm your host, Dr. Michael Jervais, by trade and training a high-performance psychologist. And the idea behind these conversations is simple. It's to sit with the extraordinarily to really learn how they work from the inside out. I know my dad had to wake me up to go to school, but he would get math. because i would wake him up to go to hockey practice i was committed to get better every day and today's conversation is something special for the first time we're recording live in front of an audience at the california surf club in redondo beach california and our guest it's none other than the one and the only loop robot tie luke's story is the stuff of legend you might know him

as the n hl's all-time leading scorer among left wingers a stanley cup champion a hall of famer And today, President of the LA Kings, his journey is a master class in resilience and leading with an attitude that refuses to quit no matter the challenge. A great teammate is someone that's obviously, first of all, they've got to try to get better every day at what they do, and then they got to help their peers get better themselves. And then what are you willing to do when no one's looking? As you listen, I'd invite you to reflect. Where in your own life have you been underestimated?

And what would change if you define success not by proving others wrong, but by getting better every single. So with that, let's dive into this special live conversation with Hawkeye Hall of Famer and L.A. King's president, Luke, Roveitai. This is great. How fun to be here with you guys. Thank you for being here to celebrate Luke and to really understand your psychology. I've spent my whole life at the beach, and you spent your whole life. the ice yeah so welcome to the beach here thank you yeah for sure okay so um i'll tell you what i want to understand is the moment that you were almost forgotten about so you have this historic career that we can look back at can you first open up as we get going what it was like your draft

pick oh yeah and then so to go from just to set the scene for everybody there's a moment that's pretty intense for you and then you move from that moment to best in the best rookie of the year and then you transition to hall of fame in between you win a couple championships and then you go on as a you know an executive that has been Harold as one of the great executives so we want to understand the transition and how you've navigated that so brilliantly but let's start at the beginning with that your draft moment I won't make it too long but basically my because it was a long day my my draft story was I wasn't really ranked in a draft I was I think I was rank really late maybe in a two 300 pick and I went to the draft in those days I'm from

Montreal if you the accent if you could tell and and the draft was was being held in Montreal but in those days the draft was one day so it was a Saturday and I think if I'm not mistaken it started 11 and I I went there for the first pick and you know you're kind of attending the show and at the time I was playing junior in Canada so a lot of my friends were were being drafted and so forth and in those days the number one pick overall was Mary Lemieux for anybody that's followed hockey and then people forget in those days he had said if I don't sign a contract I'm not going to go on the stage when they name my name and I think they called this bluff Pittsburgh named them first of all he got up

and you got a standing ovation because it was in Montreal and then sat back down. So the draft was held for, it seemed like it was an hour, but it was probably only 15, 20 minutes, but it was a long time because they didn't know what to do. It was the first time ever, the first overall picked and showed the stage.

So it made the whole day go longer. So I sat there, and then second round came, and the third round came, and the fourth round came. I never heard my name. And there was only one team that talked to me was Los Angeles throughout my first year. And I heard my name. It was like, they had a couple breaks throughout the day,

one hour break for lunch and so forth, and it was 7 p.m. if I recall. And at the time, it was on the ninth round, so the old Montreal forum for anybody that's ever seen a hockey game back in those days, they used to be the red section. That was maybe 25, 30 section, then the white section, and the blue was all the on the top.

So all the reds were filled for the draft, and I was sitting in the whites, because I didn't know if I was going to come out. So anyway, I got, I heard my, name. There was no one in the stand. So I just kind of ran down. There was no one there. So I just and so when I, the draft is held on the floor and there's all these tables from each team. And I went to go on the eye, but you had to go to the, where they opened the door on the bench for hockey. And there was a policeman there. And he stopped me. He goes, what are you doing, young

men? Because there was no one there. And I go, well, I heard my name. And he, and he stopped me. and there was an agent that ended up being a general manager for Colorado. He recognized me. He goes, no, no. He goes, this kid just got drafted by Los Angeles. So he shook my hand and he led me on the floor. But I'm going through every table because at the time there were 21 tables. And I get to the Los Angeles table and they had another break.

And there was no one there except one GM. His name was John Wolfe. And he looks at me. And at the time, I didn't know who he was. He didn't know who I was, and he says, may I help you? I go, yeah, I go, my accent was way worse then, and I didn't speak much thing. I go, you just drafted me. And he goes, really, what's your name?

And I said, Luke Robitai, and he looks at his guy, and he's a really nice man. And he shook my hand, he goes, and he looks under the table, there was a box, and it was empty. He goes, I don't have anything. I don't have any hat. He goes, I'm sorry, but he goes here, and he had a pin on his jacket, so he gave me the pin. And it was kind of neat. A few years ago, my dad passed away, and I found it.

It was actually in a cup in his thing. So I kept it as a pretty cool souvenir. But so real quickly, he says to me, he says, do you have an agent? And I said, well, no. I was the ninth round. So he says, well, write. He gives me a piece of paper and a pencil.

I know it was in a pen. It was a pencil. He goes, write down your name and your address. We'll send you the information camp starts this day in September. He's speaking fast. I'm not really understanding. I write everything and I go back up and my dad was with me and kind of happy I got at least my theory was my name's on a list now it's up to me so we took the subway back because that's

all we all did that in Montreal and I remember I'm in the subway my dad I go I'm not sure I wrote the right address I was really nervous that I wrote the wrong address there was no way to know where they would reach me and then the whole month of July went but I never got anything finally I got a letter and beginning of August I'm like I can't thank God I wrote the right But real quick, the funny thing about the drafts is I always joked that Tom Glavin, the baseball player, at the time he said before the draft, he says he was a good hockey player and a great pitcher. He said, I'll never play hockey. And I joked that people say, well, the Kings made a good pick in the ninth round. I go, not so good because I think it was the third or fourth round. Even though Tom Glavitt said, I'll never play hockey, they still thought they had a better chance with him than me. They drafted them ahead of me by five picks. Even though he said, I'll never play. They're like, they thought the odds were better in his favorite than mine. Because you had the rep of being a slow skater.

Yeah. Is that why? Okay, we'll come to that in a minute. So this idea of not accepting your station in life, that they pinned you as ninth rounds, the stadium left, you're kind of like the afterthought, if you will. And somehow you didn't accept that. And I can imagine me in that scenario feeling really uncomfortable. It's certainly at a young age, like, very unsettled.

I don't know exactly what to do because, like, you're the star where you came from, and now you're entered to the big arena, and you know, you're forgotten about. So how did you, can you take us into your mind? And I think you gave us a hint, which was, my name is on the list, and now it's up to me. Yeah. So that's probably a golden thread throughout your whole life. Yeah. I'm a believer, a lot of it has to do the way we grew up,

the way things are taught through us, and we don't know, you know? And my dad and mom never put any pressure on hockey for me, and I played every other sports. But personally, I just tried to be the best at whatever I was doing, without knowing. It wasn't work. It was just maybe just the way my mindset, and I wasn't aware of it. But I do recall being good at hockey as a kid

and hearing other people talking about my skating. And then probably the only time my dad I've ever asked him, or he said something, is I said, am I really slow that? Because, like, you know, you kept hearing, like, you know, I was having some success playing those double teams and so forth. And he said, well, I don't know somebody, he said, all I know when there's a loose puck somewhere,

you seem to get there first. That's all he said. And I'm like, I took a lot of pride into that. So then you take that, and then I get drafted. and there were no bitterness or anything it was just hope my name is on the list it's up to me now they have to look at me i was not like i'm going to show them that they were wrong it was never that it was my name's on the list it's up to me it's not up to anyone it's the work i'm going to put in not knowing what i was going to do though okay so there's two things one is your dad

gently nudge to what you were good at and didn't say yes son you got slow feet you know, we'll work on it. He just said, he gave you the gift of pointing to what you're good at. So you took that and, okay, so there's probably something in that. And then the other thing is that you didn't play with a chip on your shoulder. I'm going to show them. You're saying that you played with hope. But is there any, can you open that up a little bit more?

Because hope, you hear the idea, hope is not a strategy. Hope is not a plan. Being hopeful is a powerful way to go through life. Yeah, I mean, I think it's the first time. I've used the word hope talking about my career, but I think I was more like every day I was trying to do better at what I was doing. Unfortunately, it wasn't school,

but it was everything else I was doing. So example, like I saw, gosh, I'm talking, 1982. Everybody remember those rollerblades, you know, it was before it was here, some guy that my dad had found was a dealer in Canada. Minnesota actually and it was two chores you could buy a pair of roller blades and I thought everybody says I'm slow I'm gonna be able to skate in the summer when there were no I in Canada there were no ice in the summer no rinks

were open so I thought I'm gonna get a pair roller blades and I I was working for my dad at the time I saved the money and then you had a choice you could take the hard wheel or the soft wheel so I asked the guy what's the difference he said with the hard wheel you're gonna go faster he says the soft wheel you're gonna work harder. So I don't know why, but as a 13-year-old, I took the softer wheel. So I knew that's what I needed to do. And then I clearly remember wearing those skates, like when, you know, September, October, you started playing hockey. Those skates were heavier than my skates on the ice. So I would go skate for a half hour before the game, thinking those skates are going to be

heavy before. By the time of play, it'll feel light and I'll be fast. Like I literally was thinking, about all this, all these thought all the time about getting better what I was doing. And this is 13. 13, yeah. You're using the language to be your best versus being the best. And has that been a consistent thread that you're working to be just a little bit better today for your best? Yes.

Yeah, that was my train of thought. Like I actually was telling that to a kid that was playing hockey the other day. I remember looking in the locker room and say, I have to work harder than, all my teammates and i knew i want to work harder than a team on the other side obviously to help win but i didn't like for me to be at my best i remember thinking that in a locker room sometimes as i got a little bit older and then i'd see some guys that didn't seem to care as much so that was important to me okay so 13 the primary movers for your psychology are um whatever experiences you had and your parents they tend to be the primary movers for us at that age um you're

to get into the influence from friends, but I don't know if that's been important to you yet. Can you open up what the dinner table was like? My parents didn't communicate that much. It was more like we

felt love that they always were there for it. I didn't know then that we had no money. I found it later, I'm like, oh yeah, we had no money. But it never felt that way. How did they do that? I think they were just there for us. So example, I had heard, like people I would hear about my skating and I had heard

there was a power skating school. This is brand new. It's like 1970, uh, nine or 1980. I'm like, dad, there's a power skating school and there was maybe $120 a week. And I, I didn't know then that you didn't have the money, but he found a way for me to go. And I would, but it was me that wanted to go. It was never him say, look, you hear a lot of parents, oh, my my son should be in this class and this. It was always me that was asking for things. They just never said no about those things. When you think about that part of your life

and what that must have been like for your dad, what are the feelings right now as an adult that come with that? I think, I mean, hockey's like soccer in Brazil in Canada. As you're climbing, they're like your parents, like everybody, everybody thinks they got screwed from not making the NHL, they got hurt or they had a bad coach you know so every parents tried so i think they were proud of like when you get to that level junior major was the big level for me as a kid i would go see every junior major game with my dad there was maybe 10 miles from our house and i never thought

of the pro i thought if i can get to junior major it'll be a big thing it would be like playing college and but I think they were proud I saw more my my dad became my coach when I made pro he became a real pain in the butt like like he would be this is the days of the facts like I'd wake up in the morning and he'd have a little rink drawing I'd go I'd hear and you know it'd be three he'd wake up at eight and send it to me at 5 a.m. and then I'd see a rink and he'd have an X, why were you there on a power play? And I'd be like calling me, you don't know, you weren't there. Like, you know, we're getting his argument.

But he never said a thing growing up about my hockey, the way I played. Actually, he said one thing, one time. That's when I was 17. I was, it was hard because I had left home. And I was living in our place, and we had older players. There were no discipline.

We had a bad team. And then he would drive. It was a two and a half hour drive to see the game and then drive back every night to go to work. And one night we got killed seven to two, and I know I didn't play well. And that's the only time my mom says, he's in the car, he wants to talk to you. I'm like, what? So I go in a car and it was hard, I think, for him to talk. And he just said, he said, I drive here every day to see you. I never want to drive and see you not work hard. That's it.

That's all he said. And that was hard for me. I just remember he now. So that was hard. You know, can you teach us what's happening right now for you? Well, I lost my dad in 2019, my mom in 2013. So just to remember that, you know, you go through things sometimes in life. And I forgot he had said that because of you and I remember. Thanks. Finding Master is brought to you by Mack Weldon. In high performance, preparation is key.

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anything remarkable in life and extraordinary comes with big emotions and so you're feeling your emotions in this moment in front of you know folks that you haven't had the chance to know yet how are you managing your your emotions in this moment uh probably just threw a joke after you know you're not even thinking and you throw a joke get away from it but you but you and i both recognize that it happened yep and then when it happened so the way emotions work is there's a it's a signal they usually come up into your stomach, into your chest, into your throat. And if you open the aperture, it'll go to the kind of into your jaw. It'll move up into your face and then behind your eyes.

If you keep opening the aperture, you just kind of let it go. And tears usually come. So at what point did you decide to open it and allow me and us to be part of it? And what decision did you decide to close it down? Well, I was caught in the middle of it. So because of you, I had to keep finishing my story. So I did it and I looked over. Oh, yeah.

So it's really. Yeah. I'm thankful that you're bringing this part of yourself forward because my generation, and probably we're in the same generation, that we were told, you know, to the best of our ability from our parents' generation, like, hey, suck it up, be tough. none of that you know sissy stuff or whatever like be tough and so i never learned how to use

my emotions the way i want to now and so watching you kind of be flooded with it allow it to to be present is the mark of modern leadership you're right i was the same way i think life for me after hockey and covid and different things my wife is into mindfulness so she's been working a lot she's trying to work with me so I listen sometimes but I'm learning you know I'm learning so that that's really been helpful though yeah very cool thank you for that um are has emotions been a big part of the reason you've been successful how you've worked with emotions uh yes and no I think the emotion of talking to myself was probably my greatest enemy what does that mean well you always doubt yourself inside like in hockey like you get on the ice for a minute and you get back on and the coach decide who's next and the coach decide who's next and if a coach sometimes there's four lines of forwards as an example he might forget your line for a shift and then I would be my greatest enemy oh did I do something did I make a mistake and I start thinking so you always hear the word in sports the zone so the minute you start thinking you're out of it so

and to me that was my greatest enemy but for some reason I was able to fight it off sometimes it might take two games three games sometimes it might just be the situation of a game I was not a cherry picking player I was at the same place every goddamn game then sometimes the puck didn't come for eight next thing you know it came for ten games in a row

and everybody said he's so lucky they forget before eight game they said I was in a slump but I was always at the same place you know so but I just just think I would talk myself and then at some point something would happen in the game that the emotion the game took over and then you get back in the zone you start think you stop thinking so you're I was with an NFL team yesterday talking exactly about this the the there's two

minds if you will there's a positive mind and negative mind to oversimplify this beautiful machinery of our mind and then there's this thing called no mind flow state the zone whatever it might be And the work is to go from negative mind to positive mind. That's the work. And then if you can hang out in positive mind long enough, and you accidentally will slip up into no mind, the zone. So can you teach us how you would, this is a two-part question. Teach us how you would go from negative mind to positive mind.

And then the second part of the question is how aware were you of that internal dialogue that you were having with yourself? It's a two-part of the related. bit different. So the internal dialogue that I had myself, I was unaware of it because I would have fixed it if I would have been aware of it. Like I remember like playing on some team or some coaches where there were things that were happening all the time. And some other teams, the coach made you earn it. As long as you knew where you stood, it was easier for me. But if I wasn't sure, then I would start putting the pressure on myself. And it wasn't about scoring goals. It was like,

I got to do what this best defensive guy do because the coach will trust a defensive player ahead of a score all the time. They'll need the goal score when they're down three, too. But a lot of the time the game is tied or you're up. So it's just the way, so I had to teach myself to come back. And to get to the positive side, I don't think I ever thought that I'm going to try to get to the positive side.

Like example, like we always heard, I don't hear this as much, but we used to hear a lot of visualizing. You've got to visualize like a shot. I was scared to visualize because I thought I was going to be thinking. Because I'm visualizing. That means I'm thinking about a goal.

I didn't want to think about a goal. I want to think about helping the team win. And that made me a player that wasn't not thinking, and my instinct took over and I was better. So I was in that middle. Yeah, there you go. So it sounds like part of the mechanism was if you were in a critical negative doubtful space that the way that you were working your route

to get to no mind was to help others was to be in service to work hard some sort of dialogue there right so if you were in service and you're working hard then that would get you into a better state of mind than any of the critical worry stuff that's right okay there you go and then just for for us what percentage of the time you're a hall of fame player what percentage of the time were you in that flow state, no mind, where it was like musicians call it being in the pocket when time slows down or it speeds up and it feels like it's completely fluid. What percentage of the time as one of the greatest to ever play the game? Not enough.

There's a story that I know that that's true. It's like when I was going to retire, Mike Altair was here. They followed me for a day playing. I think a couple days. They showed me in the locker room. they show me in the warm-up and there's all kinds of jokes when players retire where they miss

they call it the room because there's no HR you just say a bunch of jokes and it's kind of goofy but it's fun it's a special world that very few people get to live and she saw the video and she was like I don't get it I go what don't she get

she goes you really love what you do I go yeah she goes I thought you were miserable all this time I go no no I love it she goes oh so I got all your misery I go yeah you did because she would see me after games and I'd be she was the only person I would tell I was I got to get this better I got to you know I got to improve this I didn't do this and I was very critical of myself so she she got all that the whole time we were together so she really she really believed that's how I felt

like that every day what was driving you so there's commitment mode and motivation I'm far less interested in motivation right i'm much more interested in commitment because the the internal commitment is the thing that keeps you going when it's hard a motivation is like i'm going to do it i'm just going to do it but the commit like i'm committed to be a good father and so when it's inconvenient or difficult like i'm fully committed to it so i don't need to feel a certain way to do it i'm fundamentally committed yeah so can you teach about what you are fundamentally committed to I was, I was committed to get better every day. That's a, it's that, simple actually.

That commitment to try to get better every day. And I got, we got some people here to, we work together. And I think there's something, they're tired of me because I'm always, we're always talking about, let's get better. Let's, let's get a little bit better today. And I'm a big believer. There's one thing that's very hard to teach is passion, you know, passion for something that you do. it's been even hard for me once I retired to get the middle of life, you know, like you work for a team. It's a little bit different in playing, but I still believe that I'm not here.

But I still, I think that's what I tell kids. It doesn't matter what you want to do. If you want to be a doctor, if you want to be a pro sports player or anything, just make sure you love what you do. You don't have to look at a clock. you know and i some of believe in that i don't know does that make sense yeah for sure um maybe speak to the parents in us is it sounds like your parents had a great job i'm not sure oh yeah there's yeah no no no no they did i always say my parents like i felt love yeah what what bit of guidance would you give the parents in the community about some real gifts you

you can give to your kids to help them be their very best. Well, let your kids be a kid. They will choose what they love. I mean, sometimes you need to nudge them. They might be every person I is different. But I'll give you an example. We're at the rink, our office at the rink, and I haven't seen that many anymore,

but I used to sometimes go to rink early and see parents and their kids are playing, you know, AAA, Pee, or Adam, and they're eight, nine years old. and you see one is better. And I remember a parent asked me, what do you think of my son? You think he's got a chance?

I'm like, I don't know, he's eight, you know. So, but I did ask him, I go, do you guys have a lot of 6 a.m. He goes, oh, yeah, he goes, those are tough. I go, well, how is he? Like, is it hard to get him out of bed? He goes, oh, it's so hard. He goes, that one is tough. I go, well, just let him have fun.

Because I know my dad had to wake me up to go to school. But he would get mad because I would wake him up to go to hockey practice. So he was mad about that. He said, I can't believe you didn't get up all week to go to school. But that was the difference. So if a kid wakes you up, let's go, let's go to lacrosse practice. Right now, he or she loves lacrosse. That's what they want to do.

If they're in the middle of the night, they're studying books to become a doctor. They obviously love that. You know, make sure that you guide them to help them become a doctor. or whatever they want to be. What about for the parents that they watch their kids? They love riding e-bikes or they love gaming or they love, you know. That part is really hard.

I wouldn't know how to figure that out. Sometimes some kids seem to come out of it and figure out something. It's really good for them. But that part is totally different because us old people, like not you, but me. But we think we want our kids to be like we were. And it's never going to happen.

again like we used to go out in the neighborhood no one cared until nine p.m. in the summer and my mom would be in the balcony I get home and you know and today you can't let your kids come out of the house whether they're a cell phone you got to know someone's got to pick them up to go three house down because we're the world's different we're getting different information too and and kids in third grade are studying things that we probably studied in 12th grade at 10th grade or ninth grade you know that i remember it's so far back i go a few see a few you guys when it was illegal to bring a calculator at school and then we did have the little one we were trying to sneak him in you know because we were in fourth grade and you know still doing just like basic math

now today kids are doing math on a computer there's no way they're learning anything we were we we are the last of the generation to remember you know the it's the the analog world yeah And so there's a right of passage that we're going to have to hold up for the next generations to remind them to remember what it was like to live in an analog world. Yeah, I'm concerned about that transition. Yeah. But we are the adults in the room that are the only ones by default that have had that experience. So there's going to be a calling on us to do that well. We're seeing it with our team.

We see a lot. It's a lot harder on those players. or 20, 21, 22 year old, their life is a lot harder than we were. And the first thing you do after the game, they go on their phone, they look to their friends, good game, and their mom, their agents. That's the first thing you do. There's a great picture years ago. The World Junior Championship in Canada is one of the biggest things.

It's during the holiday, and it's like the country shuts down. Everybody watched Canadian team play the World Junior Championship. and I think it was like six, seven years ago, they won. And it was a great picture because they won, and the whole country went crazy. And then they had, within five minutes of the game, they had some photographer came in the locker room and every kid was sitting in her stall with their phone.

It was fascinating because you put that 20 years ago, they would have been just screaming in the room, but they were all sitting down looking at their phone, all 20 of them. The way we capture ideas matters. For me, the new remarkable paper pro move has just changed how I work on the go. It's a digital paper tablet about the size of a paperback book. It's light enough to slip into a pocket, and it's also powerful enough to hold everything,

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15% off a simpler and safer home cleaning routine. What was your calibration? So you were, your psychology was designed. mind to be just a little bit better today at a thing that you found that you really enjoyed, which sounds like this magical thing that took place for you, meaning that you had this big motor, this big engine to get better. And I'm curious, what is it that you were calibrating against? Oftentimes the kids will calibrate against what's being said about them. So they're looking externally to know how they're doing internally,

which is a very, very, very, very, very dangerous proposition. how are you calibrating if you got better and how you're let's say your day went well it's like I have different memories when I was a kid I just did so many things and whatever I would do for some reason I would try to be better at that I'm gosh I remember being seven years old and my dad's friend taught me how to do a pitching motion like they do in baseball and he said you got practice this every day to be better and I would drive my mom crazy because I would walk in the house doing a pitching motion you go back sideways step forward I was a step I would do all my step like this I look crazy in the street you know people thought I had had issue but that but that but in my mind

he told me if I did that I would get better so I just did it you know so so then later I think I took that and I had this mindset that I believed that would help me be better it was I wasn't competing with myself. I'll compete with anyone. The one guy that I saw when I was 13 years old that kind of changed my life that I was like, wow, that's my, was Gretzky. Because Gretzky, seeing him at 18 years old in the NHL, he was this little skinny guy, because he was, he didn't fit the NFL model. They say he wasn't a good skater. He was skinny, you know, and he changed the game, and he saw things so differently. So that's the one guy. I did study everything he did. And how old were you when he was? I was 13.

Okay. Yeah. So you had a model to learn from. Yeah. Yeah. And where did you get tripped up? Where did it go sideways, if ever for you? Because so far it sounds like, I mean, you're like the emblem for resilience, the emblem for deep commitment, the emblem for internal motivation, if you will. So where did it go sideways for you? Because when you look back, again, go in reverse order, world class executive, Hall of Fame, athlete multiple championships rookie of the year and you know well it kind of went sideways every day you're always looking to to do something a little bit i'm talking about my professional life now my my wife's happy because i'm working more of my personal life you know the last five six seven years i finally got it you know but my professional life it went sideways every day There was something every day that, you know, it was very rare that you had a day, you're like, everything is great, you know,

because I was trying to be, like I live my life, it's a, I find like my life was very selfish. And the reason I say that is like, when I played hockey, the day before the game, we had a practice, you know, if I ate a meal at noon, I ate at noon, if we, I asked my movie one time, we went to a movie at four o'clock, we went to the movie at four o'clock,

clock and because that was my way to get out of my mind then we had a certain dinner then it came the next day it was all about me and we had kids you know but but it was yeah I didn't know that then I didn't do it maliciously but it was like my entire family tried to help me be the best I could be next game I was good every game but I did everything I could to be the best I could be I'm glad you bring up the selfishness my experience working with world's best is that there is a dark side to the path that you're talking about. And it looks from the outside quite glamorous, quite nice. But the dark side is that there's an internal unsettledness that never seems to get quiet.

There's a scratchiness about how you eat breakfast, how you get into your car, the way, there's just an internal unsettledness. I don't know if that was the case for you or not. But has their been or is there a dark side to the pursuit of being your, very best for me I wouldn't call it a dark side I'm sure some people because sometimes things happen it goes it could go really bad I was lucky that I was able to fight through different things injuries and so forth but it's your whole life is about that it's kind of crazy you know like the way you drive what you do

and people even my staff will laugh at me like you know about I'm superstitious I'm I'm going, well, I'm only super sure when it works, you know, or sometimes we drink a glass wine before the game. When we win the game, we'll keep drink, but that's an easy one because it's good wine. But you're only superstitious when it worked, and then when it doesn't work, you change what you're doing. You could change it totally, so, but your whole life is around that. It's not, it's kind of, it's a little bit crazy.

It's, there's a dark side to that, you know? Yeah, that's right. But it doesn't sound like there's a loneliness for. you didn't seem like it was a lonely pursuit no it wasn't a lonely pursuit but when we're talking about that something comes to mind right that I found very I'll say it but I mean all I have all the respect for that person in the world but I thought it was so sad when Tom Brady came back because I understood him I'm like I can't he can't get out of it he couldn't get out of it I mean it cost him dearly he's

very successful. It's not about money. I feel when I watch him, it cost him. I don't know. I don't know the guy. I never met him. But I was a big fan of everything he's done. Then he gets all the way, wins. Then he retires, and he says, I'm done. He's got

kids and everything. Then he had to come back. That's all much. He's probably crazier than me as far as getting ready, because we all heard the story of Tom Brady how hard he worked. So this guy's like another level. That's what I'd

feels. I'm sure as a fan I was happy he came back but kind of read between the line how hard it must have been for his life. Yeah, I want to keep going there because there's this thing that happens, we'll stay on the transition for a moment from

all the attention in the world in your world to very little attention is this very tricky thing and mechanically too when athletes retire they go from being told what to do and to doing it to their very best ability, what was, what were you going through during your transition that you saw something in him that was less than aspirational in what

you saw in him? What were you going through during your transition? You know, the thing about Tom Brady for me is I just looked at everything he did and kind of studied and sometimes you try to use it. It's like when we all heard the stories when Tiger was at his prime, you know, and I've always kind of looked up to Tom Brady, so when he retired and then came back, the thought was like, oh, you know, I felt like there's that feeling of like, oh my God, like it's so hard to come out of it. I was, I feel I was fortunate that my timing was right. I was able to stay in the game and something that I thought I could do something, build something and but it's hard you got to be lucky you got to be at the right time at the right

place and for me like I you know I was fortunate at the time Mr. Ant Shoots and Dan Beckham and I see you at Aegee and Tim Laikie that was there there was a miss age he was growing there was a miss on the King's organization where I felt we needed more attention to the organization so kind of took advantage of that but it It's, you know, it's one of hundreds of thousands of athletes that this happens, you know, where it was there and I made sure I was ready. I took advantage of it all. When I watched, you know, your transition from basically Hall of Fame status to be an executive, I wondered if you were taking graduate classes in business or, like, did you, did they trust something else about you that you were going to be able to figure it out? I throughout my career, I was kind of, I learned to speak English by, I mean, I didn't study much.

I was watching TV and so forth, but reading, I was always trying to read. And then throughout my career, near the end of my career, we had a lockout an entire year. And I was on some of the committee with our union. So I was able to be in those meetings, and I got to learn a lot. And, you know, we had a whole year off. I was expecting to come back but I knew I was near the end so I remember throughout my career

I was known as one of those athletes that I didn't really say no when people would ask me for favors or things to help their foundation or so forth and so that year that we didn't play I called a lot of people that I knew

to learn from them their vision, how they were doing their businesses how they treated the people they work with I wasn't very specific about knowing numbers or something I was more intrigued by the way their leadership were with their people and some people I asked some people I just had lunch so I did take that year that way

and then when I retired a year later and I was you know like AEG was at a place they were fast growth so I kind of saw and I heard from the fans of the L.A. King's even the year I was missing saying that you need someone to make them believe into what the Kings were going to do. Because unfortunately, like for you guys who are the Kings fans, if you remember, A.A.G was going really fast. They built Staples Center, L.A.L.I. The O2 in London and everything.

And if you're a Kings fan, and that's what I learned at the time, and you're buying season seed for the Kings, you care about the Kings. Now, if AEG signs David Beckham, you're like, where's my David Beckham? That's what a Kings fan, because they're spending their hard-earned money. So I kind of took advantage of that and say, okay, I'll pay attention to Kings. We'll focus on trying to be the best franchise

that came. That's how it started. How do you finish this thought stem? I'm a student of... You know, it's a tough one because, you know, my first time was, like, getting better every day, but I think it's, you've got to be a student of people. You've got to be a student of the way we feel about things, you know, and I think that's probably the most important thing. Would you put yourself in the upper quartile for emotional intelligence? I don't put myself in anything.

I knew you were going to say that. I knew you were going to say that. No. No. Does the emotional, like, does the emotional, social intelligence and emotional intelligence, does it confuse you, or do you feel at home with how somebody else's emotions are working, how your emotions are working, and how the interplay between the two are? That's really what emotional intelligence is. I think sometimes I'm a little bit too much focus on to where I want it to be. I don't think I'm there yet on learning

people's emotion and bringing back towards me. So it's something I'm working on presently every day. Yeah, I think it's one of the greatest investments. We know from research that it's an outsized impact for whatever you're doing in life when

you invest in emotional intelligence and it's something that can be learned. It's not fixed. So, I don't know. Even the stat that people that score high on emotional intelligence make more money. people high on emotional intelligence, report better relationships at home, and, and, and, and. If my wife were here, she would have started laughing, by the way. Yeah, good.

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That's Lisa, L-E-E-E-S-A dot com. The promo code is Finding Mastery for 20% off, plus an extra $50 off on us because great sleep. it's just too important to leave the chance so before we transition to leadership what does it mean to be a great teammate a great teammate a great teammate is someone that's obviously first of all they got to try to get better every day what they do and then they got to help their peers get better themselves that that's what a great teammate is and then and then what

What are you willing to do when no one's looking? That's always, to me, that's probably one of the most important thing. Yeah, there you go. In preparation for this conversation, I called Rob Blake. Okay. Long time friends, you know, teammate. And so I asked Rob just kind of some stuff about you that maybe others don't know. And so he said, ask him about his camper.

He always laughed because, you know, my wife and I, we went, we rented RVs over the years, and we finally bought one, so we're always in, I park at work, and he's just fascinated by it, but I just go, and I like to do everything around it. It's kind of, I think it's a peaceful moment, but I've had so many stores over the years, whether it was working out where, I think when I've when we started learning about working out and treating ourselves in nutrition and it was about halfway through my career and I got finally got a personal trainer you start now every athlete does him and those days we didn't know so finally when I learned it and I already had we'd rented an RV for a month and I was going a trip so the guy I was learning to do squats and different things I bought a squat rack and I put it under the RV and I had to distribute the weights And imagine getting on a campground

and you're building a squat rack every time and then putting it down and those campers look at me. They thought I was building like some kind of jack to fix my tires because it's all, they'd never seen it. So he just got a kick out of my lifestyle. I'm getting in an RV.

And every mistake's ever been done in an RV. I've done him. Like I'm Chevy Chase times 10, you know. So I've learned through every mistake. These are stories he told me. Like there's always something kind of a little wrong. Yeah, that's fun. But I didn't know you're going to go to the squat rack.

I mean, that sounds like that's a great example of how maniacally focused and obsessed you were about getting better. Yeah. So there's another story he asked me to talk about, which is the way you would end practice, that you would kind of drive the goalies crazy. Oh, yeah. And so I think this is worth talking about because people hear the stories about the greats, you know, first to leave, last to, first.

to arrive, last to leave, but you would do something on the ice that was pretty predictable of your success. I did drive the goalie's crazy and I'll tell you why, because, you know, there's whatever, two, three hundred pucks in practice on the ice everywhere. Whenever we do a drill, whenever I wasn't, it was in between drill, if a loose puck was around me, without looking, I would throw it at the net. And I always try to hit the net. If I miss, I'd take the next one until I would go, then I'd go to the next rail. So if you guys been around the Kings for a long time, Kelly Rudy, our goalie, I would drive him nuts

because Kelly would be looking at this guy shooting, and I would, I didn't always hit the net. I would miss it, and he hit his skates. So he, it's a couple of times he shot pucks back at me and a couple of F bombs and everything, but today we laugh about it, but I'm like, that's where they belong. So I would joke at him, I'd say,

that's where they belong in the net. And then the one thing that Blakey is talking about is my entire career, probably starting when I was about 14, 15, I never got off the ice without putting a puck in the net. My entire, like it drives me nuts when I see these kids today that they don't get, they miss the net in games and everything, and they just leave the ice. When they miss it, they miss it, they leave the ice.

And I'm like, I could have never done that. I had to put a puck in the net, then get off the ice. Practice or games? Oh, no, not in game because there's only one puck at the end, but every warm-up and every practice. And then this might be hard to answer, but where did that come from? It was a little bit of OCD, like an obsessiveness, or did it just feel like that's my job? It was my job. I wasn't going to come out there.

I wouldn't. It just wouldn't. It became normal. Yeah. It would never happen. So you, I know you're not directly responsible for the lineup on the Kings, but you have a heavy hand, I'm sure, in it. for folks that are thinking about teammates and talent, wherever they are in their life's efforts,

what are you looking for for a great teammate and for a great talent? Because I'm sure everybody in the league needs talent, but I think right underneath of it is the attributes that allow that talent to come forward. So what are you looking for for teammates and or talent? We study everything. There's a ton of data in sports, as you know. But you can't study the heart, what you're willing to do to help your team win.

And that's what fans don't see. When you're on the bench, when you're in the locker room, even a football player, like they know that's why they celebrate championship differently because you know when you're on a team, one guy might have played one time on the line in football and done one thing for the team that made that play go. It's the same in hockey. It's a real great team game.

So that's that one part. Now, you've got to have the talent, the speed, and everything that goes with it. But if you can start sprinkling in, these guys are willing to do other people or not willing to do. And what I mean by that is, obviously, in our sport, the easy one is blocking shots. It's kind of crazy guys are blocking 100 miles an hour shot. When you have a goalie with big pad, but they're throwing himself in front of the puck to block it. But there's other things inside the game that sometimes you see a guy. You could pass it to him, but it's not quite perfect.

Or if you wait a tenth of a second, but you're going to take a bigger hit to make the play, that's how you win. So then you take the big hit, and everybody cheers that that guy got hit, but we see the guy that made the paths that knew he was going to get hit that made that play. That's how we win.

So we look for that inside players, and as we're getting better because we've been on a rebuild, we're starting to get more and more of those guys and slowly but surely our team's getting better with the skills you got to have the skills and but everybody's kind of closer but i spent some time in hockey and not not anywhere of course near what you're doing and i was in the locker room a player got hit by a puck and his his eye cheek blew up and so a couple folks ran back and there was a doc that was back there and he says he says, okay, so I'm going to give you some, I guess,

nova cane or whatever it might have been, to numb him. And he says, mm-mm, and the doc goes, what do you mean? He says, yeah, no, no shots. He says, but I have to cut it open to, you know, he goes, cut it. At that moment, I knew I was in a different league. Like, that's not a psychology I'm familiar with. And so what are some of the things that separate hockey players from others that,

or maybe just a wild story that you've experienced, that the rest of us would not be able to ever be part of. It's crazy. You're right. I can see how it's. Like, we had a theory especially. I think it's changed a little bit, but it was like, if it's not in your heart, you've got to get up and go to the bench.

So like we always laugh. We own the Galaxy team, so I always laugh with our president. Because, you know, in soccer, there's that thing, they stay down. But there's a purpose to it. They're trying to get a yellow card. But I always joke, I go, there's something in that. I think it's not Gator. He's probably powering to that.

Whatever, the Turner comes in with like six bottles, and the player goes like this, and he sprays on his knees, and then they get up and start running. I'm like, it's magic. Yeah, I said, can we get that for hockey? So he always jokes with me because we were at a game. I could tell you the story. This is how we think, and I was retired maybe 10 years,

and Anzee Kopitar got hit in the face, and he was bleeding on the ice in the corner. And I suddenly, my mind, turn player and the game was going and I'm talking to myself and the guy's right next to me he's a president of the galaxy I said get up and I'm talking about I said get up and then I'm like get the F up like because I knew the game was going and and he's like look at me he goes what do you mean get up I go it's his face it's not his legs he can get up and go to bench and he was like my god you guys are crazy and I go but that's all we we thought I played in Detroit when we won a championship

we had a rule, unless you're dead or you having a heart attack or your leg is broken, no one was allowed to stay on the ice on that team. So that whole year, I was there two years, no one ever stayed on the aid. It didn't matter with the injury or you had to. No one was coming out to help you either. So we were almost trained, like it was part of team, so that theory was, that's hurry to bench so another guy could come in and make it. It's kind of crazy, you know, but, you know, but that's how we thought.

The hockey is a little bit different. I used to think, like, football is really, really tough. The only difference in hockey is you kind of, you don't get quite the same injury, but you got to play every two days. That's your biggest difference. You're really unguarded. You're open in the way that you share yourself here and other ways. And so what have you done in your life to be this open, to be this unguarded?

I think I just know where I come from and there's nothing special except that I was fortunate and I got to do something I love and I tried to do I was scared to lose it every day so I try to get better every day and I still think I'm lucky I think every one of us has a special gift and we just got to work at it so I don't think any one of us is any more special than another because it doesn't matter

It's like we just saw someone fell, like it could be gone just like that. You know, anything we do, so it might as well enjoy it every day and that's it. What is your special gift? My wife would differ, but I think what's important is enjoying today, you know, because she thinks I always live in the future and like I'm trying to, but enjoying today, this moment today, like, you know, what we have now. Finding Master is brought to you by Fatty 15. One of the core questions I often return to is,

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Her story and the research behind this molecule, it's fascinating. It's one of my all-time favorite conversations. To get started, head to Fatty15.com, fatty15.com, fatty15.com slash finding mastery. And use the code finding mastery to get 15% off your first order. Again, that's fatty15.com slash finding mastery. And the code, Finding Mastery for 15% off a more resilient future. Finding Mastery is brought to you by Square. One of my favorite local spots here in Southern California, it's a small cafe near

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Square is now behind the scenes, helping entrepreneurs stay focused on what matters most. If you have your own business or you're thinking about starting one, I want to encourage you to go check out Square. Head to square.com slash go slash finding mastery. That's square, S-Q-U-A-R-E dot com slash go-G-O-S-Finding mastery. What are you working on that you're trying to get better at now? Something that might be difficult or confusing or that, you know, you're kind of, it's not quite clear yet. Like, what are you working on?

I'm 59 now, and I, sometimes I look at people that are 84, 85, 83, and I'm like, oh, my God. I remember when I met that person, they were 52, they seemed so wise, and they knew something. I didn't know, and I was like, and I'm like, wait a minute, they had the same thought of me, the same insecurities probably. so now I realize that it doesn't matter what age we have it's just about what we're doing while we're here and then helping people and you know but then when you go away you can have made all the different score as many goals win Super Bowl or win Stanley Cups

it really comes down to a few friends and your family and that's what I'm working on even more today than ever in my life how are you're one of the best athletes you know to ever play the game um again hall of fame athlete how do you deal with your physicality changing um watch what i eat um try to try to try to work out but it's totally totally different like you know i tried to we used to joke like you couldn't watch a movie or read a book while riding a bike and now i watch two netflix shows whatever doesn't matter. But just try to do something every day. And I don't question it. I think I'm

understanding our life is there's some aches and pains here and there that I have to live through. But I know I was very fortunate to do something, and I know I could never do it today. So I don't fuss about it. You don't, yeah. Very cool. Okay, let's quickly transition to some leadership stuff. When you're thinking about the leading. a team and you're leading a very public team that has observable critique from others. What would you say are the most important mindsets that you're interested in for your executives to have? We're on a big transition as an organization. We've had to make some changes on our business side and on the hockey ops side.

And I think what's very important is to keep things simple. have, you know, it's sports, it's different. You've got to win the game, you know. That's, we're paid to help a team win. So you've got to have goals that are achievable, and sometimes you've got to push a little bit, the envelope just because you become better believers into it, but be realistic, and it's got to be as simple as could be funny enough.

Because when it's too complicated, it's easy to have excuses because suddenly you know you could go here you could go there so get try to get rid in our organization as it's many excuses as possible i would say that's probably really important so inputs and outputs output is winning and then all of the inputs that go into maximizing the possibility of the output you're winning do you focus more on the inputs or the outputs and in if it is the inputs how often do you speak to the output like how often do you say the word we got to win. One phrase.

Well, it was kind of, the only way I could describe it, I was very fortunate, and I played in Detroit. That's why I learned it. You never know what it takes to win a championship until you win a championship, because you don't really, you know, but you don't know. When you're an athlete, you're like, I want to win, I want to do it, and you believe in it.

When you win, you're like, oh, it's everyone. It doesn't matter. So I was for many years in Los Angeles. We were a good franchise, never great, we'd never won. Then I went to Detroit, and there's the example that I've given, and I got some staff that they've heard it a million times, but when I was in L.A. and we started knowing about nutrition, I told you guys, I was training and everything.

We started as a group we bought a shake, like protein shake. It's very silly. And then we decided to chip in, every month a player that was making a certain salary would buy the shakes for all the guys that were doing it so it made it easy at one point i went to the general manager because i was on the leader i say hey the guys are all chipping in but maybe it'd be good if you guys did that for the team and and i was told we don't have a budget well it was okay i just went downstairs and kept playing and so the next year i signed with detroit and i go to detroit now in those days

keep in mind, we had probably one of the best team ever put together, but I had heard they had a different culture. They really didn't have a plan the way they play, and they really good, and they had a culture expectations. So I get there, and the first meeting, I have a couple of days before camp, their trainer comes to me with a pad, and he said, hey, I just want to know, what's your training routine? I said, well, I'd like to do after practice, I do X, Y, and Z go, okay I can help you with this and then he said do you take any vitamins I go I take vitamin C and he goes he goes he goes what get that for you I go will you do he goes yeah he goes and then he asked me about the shakes he goes what what what brand do you can I'm like what

brand I go I never heard and I'm like well I this one I think it was called myelplex in those days he goes what flavor I'm like what flavor I go wow I couldn't believe I go vanilla strawberry you know and he goes okay I'm going wow you guys do all he goes yeah he goes he goes he goes listen we just want you to help us win another cup he goes we'll take care of the rest and that was like the second trainer he says that to me so then i go outside and there was a girl that worked for the foundation and they used to make us sign pucks and they would sell him and they would kind of they had a store so she said when do you like to sign so i said well never on game day and did he before the game sometime i might be hard i like to leave but i said any other days i don't

care she goes okay i said oh thank you she goes no problem we're just going to make your life easy to help us win and that was like a good I think I'm not sure if she was an intern or something she said that so everybody was saying the same thing and then I remember we started training

camp and coach was Scotty Bowman and he came and he was kind of funny he was a little bit like rain man sometimes he didn't talk to us much but he came near near the board and he got mad at our assistant coach he goes I don't want anybody to get hurt today in practice

And he says, whatever you're doing on the skating, don't make him stop. Because if you stop the first few days of training camp, you might pull your groin and so forth. Make him turn. He goes, I don't need anybody to get hurt here today because we're going to play until June. And that means in hockey, if you play until June, you're playing the finals. And I was like, so I was fascinated that everybody spoke the same way. One of the things, I was fortunate to spend nine seasons with the Seattle Seahawks. And one of the things that we did is the way we were thinking about.

pre-season or off-season pre-season and then even the beginning of the season is setting up all of the right thinking for playoffs so we're starting that early just like that like listen we're going to be playing until the end of the year so make sure that that that-da and that's why I was asking about winning we never talked about winning we only talked about the inputs and we're really crisp about the inputs and if if a win happened great yeah you know So we're over-indexed on winning. And I'm going to ask you if you can tell a story, your favorite story from winning. And I'll set it up this way.

One of the things I was most fascinated about with Coach Carroll and the Seahawks was the true commitment to the process. It was an honest commitment to the process of becoming who were capable of becoming. And so we won the Super Bowl. We're in the locker room. There's a hundred and so of us. all the champagne is flowing and he pulls everyone into the front or into the middle of the room

and he says all right everybody and all the hands rub he says we now have what everybody wants and I thought oh no he's going to say a trophy like that's not why I'm in this oh no

it's been like cloaked in this narrative that we're really doing it for the trophy and this has been a ruse and so this is all in an instant like I'm hitting the panic button and he says and he pauses and he looks around the room and he says the knowing of what it takes to be our very best and so that that commitment to the knowing of what it takes

collectively to be our very best is something that was an honest commitment there so do you have a story anything like that maybe it's the win maybe it's not that that brings to life the honest commitment or a story that's I don't know irreverent if you want to go that way as So when I was in, maybe a couple, but when I was in Detroit, like, we had the 11 future Hall of Fame, 11 guys out of 20, they're going to be, there's never been put a team to get in a history of sports. Maybe AC Madrid put, like, maybe out of 11 players, 7, 8 guys that could be in some type of Hall of Fame.

But if you look at any sports, it's like taking an NBA team, you'd have eight players that make the Hall of Fame, you know? So, so, but the guys who revered the most were one were the guys that came in for one game and did something on the ice that we all knew helped us win that game. And to this day, I'll see them, and we treat them the same as Steve Eisenman or Sergey Fedrov, those superstars that were on our team, or Brett Hall. And, and that's what made that special. And then it kind of made you understand that the fourth,

line that played a few minutes became super important to winning because that's what they did when the fans sometimes they go take a snack because Eisenman's not on the eyes but that's we knew that's what made us win and you get that and then then i go back to 2012 when the kings won and i saw that team were we that team in 2012 we were an eighth seed which is the last seed when they ended up winning they were up three nothing every series which is fascinating never happened the history of the NHL, but there's not one game, they won in the least amount of game at the time that anybody, I think one of the team had won the Stanley Cup. There's not one game as management, we could say that one guy was off tonight. For two months straight, everybody

was on, which I always find it fascinating. Then you put that two years later, we were down every single, we were down three, nothing, down three, two, down three, two, and, and they found a way to get back enough to win again. It's fast. The same group. It's amazing. Luke, what a treat for you to allow us to peek inside your psychology and how you frame things and how you use your own internal model to be able to not only help yourself be your very best, but also the commitment that you've made to others. It's been really fun to get to know you this way and really fun to watch what you've created, you know, across the NHL for a number of years. So thank you for today, and thank you for all the gifts you've given us.

Thank you. It's great to be here. Beautiful. Next time on Finding Mastery, we're joined by the incredible Jesse Cole, the bright yellow suit wearing showman behind the Savannah Bananas and the creator of Banana Ball. Jesse shares the incredible story of going from sleeping on an air mattress while trying to save a failing team to reinventing baseball as a one-of-a-kind, joy-filled spectacle. that's selling out stadiums across the country. It's a conversation about vision, risk-taking, and building a culture where fun fuels performance.

Join us on Wednesday, October 15th at 9 a.m., only on Finding Mastery. All right. Thank you so much for diving into another episode of Finding Mastery with us. Our team loves creating this podcast and sharing these conversations with you. We really appreciate you being part of this community.

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