Finding Mastery with Dr. Michael Gervais - Nicholas McCarthy: Music, Insight, Investing in Craft

Episode Date: June 15, 2016

The conversations we have with ourselves either facilitate or slow down the pursuit to understand potential. It is not the external obstacles that determine one’s path, rather, the process of working with the challenges that accompany all of us who want to “go for it” in life. Nicholas McCarthy was born in 1989 without his right hand and only began to play the piano at the late age of 14. In This Episode: -Overcoming a late start to playing the piano -The confidence his parents instilled in him from early age -Visualizing the thing he was told he couldn’t do -His process for embracing challenge -Using imagery as a guide for performing in new venues -Why he loves the piano -The transition from amateur to pro -The meaning behind anything is possible -How he deals with his inner critic -Belief as a word that cuts to the center of what he stands for -Creating a relationship with his fans through music -Exercise as a method for staying mentally strong_________________Subscribe to our Youtube Channel for more powerful conversations at the intersection of high performance, leadership, and meaning: https://www.youtube.com/c/FindingMasteryGet exclusive discounts and support our amazing sponsors! Go to: https://findingmastery.com/sponsors/Subscribe to the Finding Mastery newsletter for weekly high performance insights: https://www.findingmastery.com/newsletter Download Dr. Mike's Morning Mindset Routine! https://www.findingmastery.com/morningmindsetFollow us on Instagram, LinkedIn, and X.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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here at Finding Mastery have been loving the fudge brownie and peanut butter. I know, Stuart, you're still listening here. So getting enough protein matters. And that can't be understated, not just for strength, but for energy and focus, recovery, for longevity. And I love that David is making that easier. So if you're trying to hit your daily protein goals with something seamless, I'd love for you to go check them out. Get a free variety pack, a $25 value and 10% off for life when you head to davidprotein.com slash finding mastery. That's David, D-A-V-I-D, protein, P-R-O-T-E-I-N.com slash finding mastery. So this conversation, we get to sit down with Nicholas McCarthy. And if you're interested in strategies for building confidence for yourself or how, if you're a parent, how to help build a framework for confidence for

your sons and daughters, you're going to love this. We get into imagery, we talk about risk taking and the process of going for and achieving these bold and counter to popular belief goals that, you know, in this case, at least one that we talk about that has never been done before, I think you're just going to love this conversation. And I think that you'll appreciate the insight and the sensitivity that Nicholas conveys about his craft and as well as how he thinks about growth. So he's captured the knowing of what it takes to really hold true to one's vision, even when others don't see or feel or believe that it's possible. And I know that all of us have had that little voice in our head or that external voice where other people

have said, you might not want to be thinking that way. So he knows what it takes to adjust and pivot and flow and fight. And at the same time, stay the path that's most authentic, the most honest to his journey. And that idea of being honest and authentic, that's no easy task. So for me, that's what I think we're about to pay attention to with Nicholas. And he's really captured an authentic way to express himself, not only through his craft, but also the words that he chooses. So Nicholas is a concert pianist who at an early age or early on, he realized based on what other people were telling him that pursuing this path would be a waste of time. He didn't buy it though. And he did not

believe that he didn't have what it took. So Nicholas was born without his right arm. And in this conversation, we learn how he stayed the course to graduate from the prestigious Royal College of Music in London. That's no joke. It's a big deal. And in fact, to become the first person to do so in the 130 years of the history without having his arm. So it's a big deal. And in fact, to become the first person to do so in the 130 years of the history without having his arm. So it's a wonderful accomplishment, but more so than that, it's the trajectory that early on the way that he was using his mind that we're going to talk about and really be able to play with. So I hope you enjoy this conversation. Nicholas, he's performed extensively throughout the UK. That's where he's based out of. And he's been at the Royal Albert

Hall performing there. And he's been all over the world, South Africa, South Korea, Malta, and extensively in the US as well. So I hope you love this conversation. Let's jump right into it with Nicholas. Okay, Nicholas, welcome to the Finding Mastery podcast. I'm so excited to have this conversation with you. And I've been tracking your work for some time. And it's fascinating what you've been able to figure out. So yeah, welcome. Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. It's a pleasure. Yeah. Okay, so when did you first begin to have the idea that you wanted to become a pianist? It was actually really late. I'm from a completely unmusical family. My parents are both just normal, hardworking people.

They're both salespeople for a living. And we just had a very, I had a very normal childhood. And I didn't really discover classical music and the piano until I was 14, which is really, really late for someone who then goes and makes their career as that, you know, that instrument of choice. And it was when I was at school, I saw a friend of mine, a very accomplished pianist who'd been playing for years, play a Beethoven piano sonata. And I saw her play and I just had one of those light bulb moments really that you see on television and you see on films where I'm like, that's what I want to do. I want to

become a concert pianist. not really kind of taking much attention about the fact that I only had one hand I kind of ignored that that bit and you know what it's like when you're a teenager you have this steely determination that you're invincible so I think that I kind of had a bit of that in me where I just thought oh I've got one hand oh I can be a concert pianist it's fine so that's how it started okay and that that's a great jumping off point for for us to understand like what are the important parts of your journey that would help me or us understand who you are that seems like one of them but what what are the important parts of the journey? I think for me, you know, my whole journey,

because I came from such a humble background with, you know, no musical training, because most people, when they're playing an instrument, they start at the age of two, three or four. They have, you know, regular, regular lessons in their instruments. They practice hours a day from a very young age. So by the time they're 14 they've usually played their first debut with an orchestra they've usually played recitals and things whereas i was just outside on my bike or playing my playstation like a normal kid so you know i think in that sense

that journey is quite unusual for someone to then go into a very highly skilled you know musical job. Secondly the fact that I had one hand, I was born without my right hand and so for me I've always kind of known I was different of course physically I have one hand but I was always brought up to feel that I was no different my parents really did instill in me that anything is possible if you believe in yourself you can achieve it and I my parents always instilled in me as well that you know most things can be adapted so you know things which would appear like oh well a one-handed person really wouldn't be able to do that often with a little bit more thought and you have to think out the box you can then adapt it very very slightly and it

means that I can actually do it so yeah my parents I really thank for that for instilling that kind of that mentality in me kind of turning those challenges into a positive a positive thing is there a particular moment in time where you remember that message coming through for you? And if so, let's celebrate that. But if not, I'm wondering if it was more a consistent message over and over again. It was definitely a consistent message over and over again. But I think, you know, one example,

I remember I was brought up in a very small village and in our little street, it was all kids my age. And all the parents, it was a very close-knit community. All the parents knew each other. All the kids, you know, we all knew each other and played together and things. And a couple of the parents had said to my mum and dad, and I'd overheard, oh, it's such a shame, you know, because obviously all the kids are starting to learn to ride their bikes now

and Nicholas won't be able to ride a bike. And I overheard it the next minute. I asked my mum and dad if I could have a bicycle for my birthday or Christmas or whatever it was. So they did. And I had in my head it was a challenge for me to be the first person out of my group of friends to ride my bike without training wheels which I did and I remember when

I did that and all my other friends still had their training wheels on and I didn't have mine on and all the parents were just like watching me like crying quite happiness you know quite like oh my god I can't believe you know he's doing this so i think things like that i always had that you know people would always doubt which i think i think that's natural i don't i don't you know disagree with that but people are always quite doubtful about people's abilities and that to me is i've always taken that as a little challenge i don't speak about it a lot. In my insight, if someone says, oh, you can't do that, I'll be like,

I think I can, I'll go and try. And then I'll really, really try to make it a success. So when you have, okay, so the motivation or drive is stimulated from someone or something outside of you saying that that's not possible. Is that right? Yeah, that happened to me when I was age one. Okay, so you generate energy and momentum from somebody or something outside of you saying that can't be done.

And then what do you do with that? Inside, do you have a picture? Do you have a talk track? Do you have a way of getting your mind around what is possible when they said what isn't can you talk to the way you know that that phrase you can't do that I just don't like it and I think inside something that could put inside that kind of gets to me and I kind of feel like well I may not say it to the person because I know it's never coming out I mean obviously in life i've always had a few comments thrown at me and i probably will have a lot more

comments thrown at me but they you know these people like that parents i mentioned about the bike they weren't being nasty they were just being quite caring and just saying oh it's a shame that he won't be able to ride a bike for me that gets in my head and i'm thinking well how do you know you don't you haven't got anyone one heart one arm to you know and you know and that and that thing now so much I think with the Paralympics and all that amazing all the amazing Paralympian athletes that we have and we see it on the TV all the time now that you know anything is possible whereas kind of in my you know years ago when I was first starting when I was young it wasn't it wasn't as common to see these amazing super humans doing amazing things even though they've only got you know one or two or

missing limbs or whatever so yeah I think for me I internalize that negativity and I really swap it and I really kind of channel it into a positive thing more for me and I would I'd be lying if I didn't say to prove the other person wrong you know it's always a good feeling proving someone else wrong isn't it well it sounds well I I think so I I enjoy that but I don't know if everyone does that's good yeah you enjoy it and I think you really captured this experience really well, which is, and if I'm trying to get my, this is what I think makes you really special. So you've got, I don't know what the right word is. It's not like, I don't feel like you embrace the word handicapped.

It feels like you've got a deeper challenge than somebody with two arms. But I want to hear how you talk about your experience there. But this is what I think makes you really special is that you feel challenge from outside of you, the word you can't, or the notion that something can't be done by you as well as somebody else. And you're like, oh yeah, okay, watch. And then I want to pull that apart if we can. If you can teach me to say, as soon as you hear you can't do something, I want to know what you do with it. Do you feel something? Do you create a talk track around it? Do you have an image in your mind of what it would look like for you to be successful?

Can you pull that apart a little bit and teach from that? It's obviously a which i don't it's obviously a natural reaction for me if someone tells me i can't do something then i do tend to have this this natural reaction where my mind just goes into it must do subconsciously go into overdrive where i think well i can do this and how am i going to do this well i'm going to do this and i'm going to prove you wrong because i'm going to do it this way. So I think probably, now you're asking me, I think I visualise myself doing the thing they told me I can't do. Like, for instance, when I was told I would never be a pianist, I could see me walking on stage to thousands

of people with nothing but a grand piano on stage and me. And I think that kind of visualization and that image, that very, very clear image in my head, really helps me to keep focused on that image and focus on that dream, if you like, of succeeding that and achieving that goal. Okay. Did that image come at the very beginning, or was it first an idea that I wanted to be a pianist and then it turned into a crisp image that's such a shame that he won't be able to be part of, you know, his friends riding bikes. It sounds like you had a reaction, like an emotional reaction to it. Yeah, like, I think probably a bit of upset inside because, you know, nobody likes to be told, oh, you can't do that. So I think instantly an instant reaction for me would probably be a bit of a bit sad.

You know, why? You know, I know I'm different, but why? You know, that sad reaction that someone else is putting their view on me, even though they don't actually know what I'm capable of. They're kind of just putting their preconceived ideas onto what they might be. They might not, you know, if they had one hand, they might not ever have ridden a bike without training wheels on. I love it. Okay, so then keep going.

Go back to that moment. So then, sad. So that initial sadness very, very quickly turns into a tenacity, a kind of upset that goes away and I'm like, well, you wait and see what I can do. You know, that kind of thing. It's a quick reaction. I'm talking kind of a couple of minutes.

Yeah, so sadness and it's not intense, but it's like, ah, and then it turns into, okay, watch. Yeah, like a flatness. You know when you're kind of like someone's knocked the wind out of your sails? Yeah. That feeling where you're like, oh. And then two minutes later, I'm like, right, okay, well, you wait and see. Give me some time.

Okay, and then from that moment, that intensity that you have about, okay, watch. Because that's using the external world. It comes inside of you. You feel it. And then you convert it into energy. Yeah. Right? And then once you convert it into energy, and I don't mean energy like woo-woo energy, but like momentum.

Yeah, momentum. And then from that momentum, it sounds like this is where the next bridge is for me it sounds like either you create an image or you continue with the talk track around what do i do next okay i got to go to mom and dad i got to get a bike and then once i get a bike what am i going to do where i'm going to i'm going to watch other kids you know and see how they do it or i'm just going to get on it and figure it out like what if you kept going because this is I think one of the things that makes you really special yeah I think that image like I said that I think that is that initial image in my head and then you're probably right that kind of my own voice in my head saying okay so how are you going to do that how you've got one hand how are you

going to balance yourself on that bike how are you going to show that? You've got one hand. How are you going to balance yourself on that bike? How are you going to show people that you can play the piano as good as a two-handed person? And that whole, you know, almost trying to question myself as if I was one of those negative people. You know, almost questioning myself and challenging myself with their ideas. Whoa, that's really good that's different it's funny you're asking this because it's i don't ever think you know what it's like you i don't ever think of the process that it happens all the time you know it's happened so many times in my life um so it's funny actually talking about it now, that is the process.

Okay. It's always been condensed. Meaning condensed in time, like bang, bang? Like it happens really quick. Two bits of sadness, and then that pitch is in my head, and then that talk track sets in of me talking to myself, questioning myself, and that kind of drives me through. Okay. So let me see if I can play it back,'ve this is why i'm so excited to talk to you because um the challenges that inherently

you've had to play the piano at the level that you've played which is beautiful and to be able to do it on a grand many grand stages and then to start late so all of the and then to start with one hand only a left hand a left arm so all of these challenges that you have set up against you or with you i should say it there's this like moment in time for all of us where we accept challenge or we move away from challenge we approach success or we avoid failure and you have uh tell me if I'm too bold with this you've mastered the approach success model and most people Nicholas I don't even know if you know this but most people say oh that's how I do it too and what many people listening or

saying yeah that's what I'm about but then when you give them a chance they choose under pressure I should say they most people choose avoiding failure and it's a fundamental decision to make and And then you can test it at the moment of pressure. What do you do? Do you go for it or do you play it safe? And what you've done, what you're accelerating for me right now is what is the one, two, three, four, five steps that you take to when, as soon as you feel the pressure, excuse me, as soon as you feel the pressure to go for it or to play it safe okay so let's see if I can play it back for you and then course correct me where I'm

off here is that you feel something and it's it can be any emotion but the one we're talking about now is like a bit of sadness from that sadness there's a quick clip to to say, okay, you know what? That's what they think. And then you play back, well, you know what? Is that right? Could I do it? And so you start to question that a bit. And then from that, and then the questioning goes, so, well, how would I do that?

And then that turns into an image. I'm guessing, I don't want to put words in your mouth. But that turns into an image. And then how long do you stay with that image before you get to say hot damn you know what i'm gonna i'm doing this like yeah i'm doing this how long does do you stay with that image i think even now you know i travel the world and i play in some of the you know finest concert halls of the world and if I could tell myself my 14 year old self or show them video of my travels to my 14 year old self now I don't know I'd love to do I'd love to be able to do that even now sorry that's my little dog what's your dog's name? Vinny, she's a Pomeranian

you know that Sharon Osbourne stuff? Oh yeah, awesome, okay That eye roll, everyone gives me the eye roll when I say that I yeah, I think with even when I'm travelling now say for instance I'm going to somewhere

I've never played before or a country I've never played before I have that image in my head still the same image that I had when I was 14 of me walking out on stage to a big concert hall with lots of fans cheering even though I know that I do that every week anyway and I get that all the time so I still have that almost like a almost a bit of a comfort blanket for me I think probably when I'm going to a new place who a comfort blanket for me, I think, probably, when I'm going to a new place who people don't know me. And I'm playing somewhere new.

It's almost like, well, don't worry, because this is what you want to happen. It's that kind of image in my head where that's what I'd really like to happen, to replicate that in the various countries which I go and perform in. And yeah, so I think that image definitely stays stays with me okay so when you decided to play piano and it really was a decision it sounds like or it wasn't yeah yeah it was like you know before that i used to want to be a chef which i don't know why i'm attracted to all of these dexterous jobs the two hands i mean that's a fiddly job for one-handed person. But I used to want to be a chef and that was kind of not a decision, that was a whim, you know, a bit like oh I'd like to be an astronaut or I'd like to be a chef, you know, one of those kind of

childhood career choices that you change every three seconds. When it comes to piano I was so inspired by piano as an instrument piano the sound of the piano the capabilities of the piano um what the pianist looks like playing the piano and everything that goes with it it definitely was a decision a conscious decision finding mastery is brought to you by momentous. When it comes to high performance, whether you're leading a team, raising a family, pushing physical limits,

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decision well I'm gonna ride my bike before everybody else and that was like the the end game oh yeah and then you just set up and you actually did it right you did the practice okay and then for piano what was the thing that triggered piano for you I think it was was all again the there was always the challenge you know there was always the fact that you know people would say well you'd never be a pianist so in my head that whole five step thing we were just talking about sets in very quickly so that is red rag to the ball as soon as someone says that to me I me, it was then like my dying wish that I was going to prove them wrong and I was going to be an international concert pianist.

So I think that the whole thing about piano as the choice of instrument and not something else or not singing, which would have been a lot easier to be a singer, to train your voices. I think that is just because that is my affinity with the instrument. I just love it. Even now, you know, I get excited when I see a gorgeous, massive, you know, concert grand on stage. There's that, I'm pulled to that instrument more than any other, more than, you know, I play with orchestras all over the world and I see all these amazing, beautiful instruments and million pound violins and things. They're beautiful, but they don't have that same pull or I'm not drawn to them like I am to the piano. That's a really cool thought. I wonder why that is. Do you have a sense?

I think it's a beautiful piece of furniture that's stunning in any room. Think of a penthouse and you think of a grand piano in the corner, don A lot of, think of a penthouse, then you think of a grand piano in the corner, don't you? Most people who own penthouses, they don't always play the piano, but they often want a grand piano in the corner. It looks so beautiful, for one. Two, I think the whole mechanics

and the history behind it is so interesting. I think the amount, you press a key, and then that sets off a hammer going, which hits a string in that grid. You know, that whole thing, I like that. I like the fact that it's a very, very complicated instrument, but packaged very beautifully in this elegant piece of furniture. Yet underneath that veneer is a lot of workings and a lot of history and a lot of developments over the years. So I think that that whole thing intrigues me. I think it intrigues me.

And then the sound, you know, you can create the most softest, beautiful sound that you've ever heard in your life, or you can create a sound with one piano that sounds as big as an orchestra. You know, it really is. The capabilities and the soundscape you can create just using a piano is vast. Do you have some sort of, I don't know, Superman power where, like, you've got perfect pitch

or you've got some sort of, you know, some sort of under-genetic, under-the-surface genetic coding that allows you to be great at this? Or is this a function of vision, dedication practice, practice, practice, practice and commitment across I don't have perfect pitch

and I don't, you know, I would say I come from a non-musical family and I think in regards to my physical ability as a piano I think I'm because of my situation, being born with only one hand and I'm more developed to do very very fast leaps which two-handed pianists and my old professors used to say how do you do that for me I don't

find it that difficult and I think it's just because I've only ever had my left hand and I'm used to being very dexterous with my left hand to do everything with it so in that sense I'm able to do maybe slightly more advanced things with my left hand at the piano than a two-handed pianist who doesn't need to do that they don't need to do the things that I need to do at the piano so I think in that sense naturally anyway even when I first started playing the piano at 14 my left hand was was more advanced than a two-handed pianist left hand would be yeah it makes perfect sense and you hear that with people that struggle with vision or struggle with hearing that their other senses their brain figures out how to accentuate other senses and And I didn't learn how to ride a bike with one hand.

So, like, of course, your dexterity for your one hand is going to be a bit stronger and more sensitive as an instrument than everyone else. Yeah. Okay, so that would be the byproduct of you using your left hand on a regular basis. But it's not something like, like you said, your family wasn't musical family. You didn't grow up listening to, you know, the classics and meeting some of the great composers of the time. So it wasn't that.

It was really that process that I think we just talked through, where you would feel something, you would question if it was real, if you could do it, then you would start to think how, and that how sounds like it's the imagery. And then you would test it and to see if you were crazy or not. Right. And then so, and then when you first tested the bike or piano, I guess it doesn't really matter. This is your process. When you first, let's go back to the bike because it's easy. When you first went back and tested it how did you work through the struggle of it not going the way you saw it in your head because very rarely does it does that first image it doesn't go as seamlessly as as you would think you know that image in your head is kind of that and like i said to you it's that end goal that is

in my head not the process it's the end. It's me riding a bike with one hand. It's me playing the piano on stage with one hand. It's not the process. So at that time, it's that, you know, I mean, yeah, I think going back to the bike, it was exactly the same as other two-handed people. You know, you fall off hundreds of times before you then you then you get it and then you know you don't forget how to do it and I think it's with that you know you just have to because I had that image in my head all the time of succeeding I was going to keep getting

up and trying and getting back on that bike and trying again and trying again like anyone would I would presume with two hands but I think with me i always had that extra that extra need in a way to prove that people roam as well and that that is a big driving force for me okay i want to i want to pull on this just a little bit more because when i was riding my bike and i fell i'm kind of making this up like retrospectively yeah but i knew that almost everybody knows how to ride a bike and i fell so if other people can do it i can do it but i they had two two hands and i had two hands like they had two feet and i had two feet and so physically there was not a difference and so when you had this idea in your head and other people were saying you couldn't do it

and then you that you changed that idea in your head and you developed a plan and a talk track that you could. And then you fell and you pulled too hard, you know, left or right, and your front wheel twisted and you found yourself on the ground. Okay, so at that moment, it would be really easy to go a couple directions, right?

Which is like, okay, get back on there. Let's go figure this out. Or maybe, or, sorry, let me slow down. Maybe they were right. Maybe this isn't for me. Whether it's piano, whether it's bike, whether it's, I don't know, fill in the blanks. Yeah. And this is also for all of us. At some point in our lives, we hear what other people believe we can't do. And then what we do is we sort it out, similar maybe to how you've sorted it out. We set forward. We take the first couple steps towards climbing our Everest.

And then bang, we hit a blizzard. And that blizzard might be is pain, is discomfort, is the process of second guessing. So if we open and expand that moment for you what did you do then the first time you fell I think for me because it didn't match my image in my head of successfully doing whatever that isn't enough for me if I'm halfway through that thought process I have to get to that end

I have to get to that image in my head of what I'm doing how come? I don't know I don't know I don't know I don't know why

why I'm like that because I'm not like that in other things. If I'm not that worried about something, if I'm not bothered about, you know, I'm not one of these can't do something it's that that gets me it's that that make that that creates that absolute need to succeed where it's for other things if someone hasn't you know I'm not a hugely competitive person I'm quite easy I'm well I am easygoing about various things you know it's not about that i'm not one of these overachievers which has to achieve and be the best everything that doesn't bother me at all so yeah i think it is literally that negativity at the beginning before all those thought processes have been triggered that negativity is the thing which absolutely creates in me that needs to match my image that I have in my head to the reality that has to match for me that's crazy I mean it's so clear isn't it of what we've just been talking about of how you

work through systems you know the systems of doubt if you will and I guess what I want to understand because now now like that maybe this is your package. This is how you do things. And if you could teach more people how you've done that decision-making process to get you to testing out the model and then committing to the model, that's essentially how from what I've come to learn many of the wildly successful entrepreneurs in Silicon Valley or Silicon Forest or even down in Los Angeles Silicon Beach that they they have an idea they test it and they see if it works and then they decide again if based on how the test went if they should continue with moving forward or not. And you're saying the reason you continue forward is because that first image is so gripping to you about being on stage or riding a bike in front of your friends,

that that's the reason you have that tenacity and grit and stick-to-it-ness when other people might not. Yeah, I think so. For me, that image has to match my reality what how do you okay so high tenacity high grit creative um no a creative image it's natural for you to create images and then like all of the moxie to go for something how do your friends describe you because there could be a cost to all of this right you could be a pain in the ass i could be a pain in the ass yeah i think my friend is funny because my friends are all non-musical the majority of them

they're all people who i've known for years before i even started to play the piano. So for them my career and yes I've gone on to you know be successful be on television and various things which of course they're proud of me but you know what they don't really care which is nice it's a nice thing for me you know I could be doing anything I could be a painter and decorator and they'd be equally as proud of me. And I think in that sense they don't often see my processes, they don't often see the things that I have to go through, the hoops that I have to jump through, the times I do have to pick myself up because my image doesn't match the reality of what's going on at that particular time. They don't see that a lot of the time.

So yeah, I don't think they would describe me as a nightmare, I hope. You'll have to ask them. How do they describe you? If some of your most intimate relationships were here? I'm a good listener um they all i mean they would all bring me i would say near the top of their list if they wanted just to sound off because i am a good listener if they're angry about something but they want to rant you know my friend my best friend so he rang me the other day to an argument with a boyfriend and she rang up and said i just need

to rant and on the phone for 25 minutes she was was like, I feel so much better after that. You know, I'm just quite a good listener. So I would say that would be one, that I'm a good listener. Two, I'm reliable. I don't like letting people down on anything. That isn't about turning up late or something, you know, just letting people down really, really gets to me. I don't like doing it.

Of course, I'm human. I have let people down in my time, but it really doesn't sit well with me. So I would say they would say I'm reliable. And yeah, it's weird to think about what other people would think about you, especially when they're your close friends. Do you have close... They would say that I'm just fabulous in every way. That's so good.

And do you have close friends with as much as you travel and your commitment to craft? Are you able to have close, intimate relationships? Yes, yes, very much so. And it's very important to me. I'm an only child and so my friends are my siblings. So it's funny, I'm not one of these people who have, I've never been, I never have a big group of friends who I hang out with who all know each other. I have

lots of friends but they're all one on one relationship and those friends don't know each other and wouldn't necessarily mix. They very different types of people you know I've got friends who are 55 and I've got friends who are you know slightly younger than me and I've got my age friends and I've got even older friends you know I've got such a mix an eclectic mix of people who come from so very different backgrounds and I think that's I've just always been very one-on-one with them so it's a nightmare when it's my I mean it's my birthday on Thursday so it's funny because I don't have a big birthday meal with all my friends I they all take me out

individually so it's great for me because I go for about six or seven dinners in a way I mean it's wonderful not so great for my waistline may I say but I never have a big a big dinner because the thought of that actually stresses me out because they don't know each other I'm not 100% convinced that they'll all get on with each other because they're so different and I've just always been like that the thought of that stresses me out having a big party or something actually stresses me out because i'm so one-on-one with people got it okay so depth of relationship i'm an only child i've always been like that i like having that very strong very close relationship with one person at that time and then I can quite happily go and to another friend and have that same one-on-one person personal relationship but put

three or four people in a room and I'm a bit like friends I'm talking about I'm a bit well you know what I don't know I get I get uneasy it's really funny whereas when I was at school I'd see these people and they'd have this big group of friends and they all go on holiday together and stuff. That would just stress me out. Are you describing more of an introverted process versus extroverted? Like, do you gather energy from listening and going deep as opposed to, you know, bouncing around many different conversations? Yeah, I think so. Yeah. Again, though, it depends which friend. It depends which friend.

I have some friends who I can have 25,000 conversations with all at once and we never finish any of them because we're bouncing from one conversation to another. And I can have other friends who kind of I'm more of a listener because they're, you know. And then I have other friends who I just don't shut up and they're the listener so it's it's funny each of my friends kind of contribute contributes to this obviously for me what I need from friendship is this clearly what I

crave from friendship and they and each of them do that in their own different way and so if we shift gears just a little bit how does piano serve you or music serve you? Your friends have different roles that challenge and provide space for you to be you. How does music do that for you? Music definitely provides. It's therapy, really. It's therapy.

It's funny. When I first started getting paid to do my job, to play the piano, it changed for a while because I kind of had to get used to the fact that I was then being paid to play a certain concert and in that concert I had certain pieces which I had to play, which I was contracted to play. And so I was then learning repertoire for a financial gain, as opposed to actually the love of music. Maybe it was something which I might not have picked to play. Whereas before that time, I would spend hours and hours just playing pieces,

anything which I said, oh, I'd love to play that, and I'll get my music out, and then I'd play that. Or I'd just be playing anything on the piano with no music so there was this little shift when I first started kind of you know becoming professional but then luckily that kind of I got used to that and I got very used to being able to learn things quickly and learn things on a schedule which meant that because I knew that everything was going to be okay and I knew that I'd have this concerto learnt for two weeks time and I'd have this recital program learnt for the next week and that's all fine then I could start to enjoy what I was doing again for a good six months there was a time where I was I really wasn't enjoying the music I was playing it and I enjoyed my job but I didn't enjoy the actual music. I didn't get lost in practice

like I used to. But luckily it didn't last for long. I think it was just a natural transition period. I'm sure probably someone who's very interested in tennis and then goes on to become a tennis pro at some stage, there's a difference, it's not a hobby anymore, it becomes a reality, a job and you have to kind of find that enjoyment in a new way. So luckily I did, I found that enjoyment and now you know when I do get time I will go to the piano and I will practice but it will be my old style of practicing, non-scheduled practice where i'm not learning a concerto because i have to i'm learning something because actually i'd like to play that and i'm not actually ever going to i haven't been booked to play this yet but i just want to learn it because

that's what i want to do because it's a hobby okay yeah you're absolutely right about that transition from amateur to pro and what happens for most people that I've come to observe and learn is that as soon as they get a manager or they get an agent or they get a coach or they get somebody that's invested in them both emotionally and financially that there becomes this new layer of burden and that burden is to not let them down is because those people have invested and trusted in your potential your craft and that gets really confusing for people so then they fire up this extra layer of intensity to do everything just right this search for perfectionism to not let others down and then that becomes this this ugly transition from the spirit of amateur to the professional kind of tension

of being just perfect. Yeah, and hopefully it sounds like what I heard you say is that you sorted that out relatively early. Yeah, and it didn't take long luckily, but I do remember not being happy in that six months. Finding Mastery is brought to you by Cozy Earth. Over the the years i've learned that recovery doesn't just happen when we sleep it starts with how we transition and wind down and that's why i've built intentional routines

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It's about choosing better. And when your day demands clarity and energy and presence, the way you prepare for it matters. If you're looking for high quality personal care products that elevate your routine without complicating it, I'd love for you to check them out. Head to calderalab.com slash finding mastery and use the code finding mastery at checkout for 20% off your first order. That's calderalab, C-A-L-D-E-R-L-A-B.com slash finding mastery. And so what is your relationship with practice now? It's a funny relationship because I'm not particularly structured. I'm quite an organized person and I'm very, you know, clean and tidy. And I'm quite particular about kind of my environment.

Yet with practice, I'm not as structured as I should be for one, I feel. And I'm not as, and that does come with the travel and it does come with various other things. But what I do tends to work. And I'm a big believer of if it's not broken don't fix it okay so even though it's not particularly structured i would say that it does tend to work for me so what are your daily habits what are the ones that in kind of the loosely structured process that you have is there one daily habit that you say or or two or whatever that you say you know what these are really important for me do you have any of those

yeah i i definitely get a bit twitchy if i don't go to the gym i like i go to the gym and just do some running and i think that just clears my head i never listen to music when i'm at the gym which is funny i'm the only person on the treadmill you know but doing my 5k and my 5K and everyone's got their headphones in and there's me without anything in. And I think it's because I'm always around music. I'm always, if I'm not performing it, I'm practicing it. So actually for me, silence, I love silence. So I think for me, I do get a bit twitchy if I don't get my exercise in. And that's just, I exercise for stamina, really.

You know, it's a hard job playing for 90 minutes in a concert, you know. And so I have to keep my stamina high. That's why I run quite a bit, just because I find that seems to help. What do you do in the silence while you're running? Just think. Think about anything, though anything though think of anything mundane things like what should I get from the grocery store today or what should you know just it's just free space just to think and yeah. And in that free space are you critical of your thoughts or are you just wandering with your thoughts?

I just let them wander. It can be from anything. It can be if I'm in a frantic, you know, if I've got a busy schedule coming up, I'll have my list in my head. I must do that. I need to go to the dry cleaners. I need to do this. I need to do that. If I'm not, if I'm on a bit of a free week,

like it's my birthday week, we just had Easter here, it's quite a free week for me. So when I did my run this morning, it was just free thoughts. I couldn't even tell you what I was thinking about, but it wasn't anything much. When something, yeah, it sounds like it's very freeing. When something comes up that surprises you, what do you do with it? Surprises me as in good way or a bad way?

Either way. Like, whoa, look at that thought. Oh, in regards to thoughts? Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. If it's a good way, if it's a good surprise, it's a good surprise then i get excited of course and then i kind of then that can generate other thoughts and if it's a surprise worth it now or it's a nasty surprise something which is or shows i won't say surprise maybe it's a shock then it's funny I tend to go I tend to go quite I don't like talking even though I'm a very

good listener I don't actually like to share too much about an upset or something I'm quite good at dealing with it on my own I'll share a little bit but I don't go into I'm not one of these people will be crying down the end of the phone for half an hour you know I can sort it out on my own I'll tell you why I'm a bit quiet but that's about it so yeah I think for me I would probably just that's when my thoughts wouldn't be free that's when my thoughts would be more frantic because I'd be rationalizing this shock and think okay well how am I going to do well I'm upset but why am I going to you know I'm upset but why am I gonna you know that's when they would start to be my mind would be busier yeah and I practice hard then I find it hard to focus practice in piano is hard or

practicing yeah oh yeah okay when I when I ever had a bereavement or if I've had something which has happened which isn't what I wanted to happen, then I do notice I don't practice hardly at all. And it's not because I don't want to or need to, it's because I can't think past my thoughts. Jeez, okay. And then... Everything just goes really well in life, and then I can practice. Why don't we just write that into our future? Yeah, we just thought that out, and we'll be happy.

Yeah, too much. All right, do you have any pre-performance routines, or anything that you do before you go out and run a program? Yeah, I don't like getting changed into my concert suit until like five minutes before I'm due on stage because that's when my nerves start to set in. I don't suffer with bad nerves at all. They're good nerves, but I don't like them too early in the day. You know some performers and some people I know, they're nervous the day

before a concert for the whole day, the whole night, they don't say I'm not like that. But as soon as my concert gear goes on and I know I'm about to go on stage, that's when my heart rate starts to go, I start getting fluttered in my tummy and that's where I pace, I tend to pace up and down my dressing room, I start getting fluttered in my tummy. And that's where I pace. I tend to pace up and down my dressing. I don't like sitting around. And because I'm only doing that for five minutes. So that's kind of, that's my, I don't really have a routine,

but I would say I think people would be surprised at how late I get ready. Would you want those, that energy to not be part of your pre-performance routine? Like, would you like to have less, or do you embrace that, no, my body's switching on. I completely embrace it. I've had a couple of concerts where I haven't had any nerves whatsoever, and I've been so disappointed in my performance, not from a technical point of view or wrong notes to

anything it it was for me flat performances yeah no spark no energy no excitement and for me those nerves are so important if i don't get them i try and get them you know i try and feel like i try and make myself nervous it's very very hard to do but you i try and think of things which can because i want that performance to be electrifying i want it you know it's very very hard to do but you i try and think of things which can because i want that performance to be electrifying i want it you know it's my audience they're paid good money for tickets i want to give them a good a good time so yeah for me that's very important and nerves that's i think so important for sports for performance but you know anything really it's just how you use them they can also be debilitating but you know it's how you use them hmm okay is there a phrase that guides your life

yeah the one is always in my head and it does sound very cheesy I'm going to share it with you anyway but it's just anything as possible because I truly truly believe that because I think and I again I wanted I wish I could tell my 14 year old self this sometimes you know when I'm from this small village and no one really did has done a great deal and you know to then for me to have this career for me to to be the one to go out and create the life that I've created for myself and to travel the world and do the things which I do on a regular basis for work, that to me, and having one hand to top it all off, I think that anything is possible thing. I really do truly believe.

And yes, it comes with hard work. It comes with determination. And I know it hasn't all been the same thing. It's been very, very difficult. But I still believe anything is possible. It makes sense when you say it. And you're right, it can sound so trite or overused. And I have questions around, is anything possible? But when you say it,

you're such an authority in it because you've mastered that space that we've just talked about in between when others or you have doubt and being able to commit to the process to make it work. And so I'm nodding my head going, okay, you've got the right to say that. And at the same time, I have this other thought, which is, I don't know if I could set out to be world's best sumo wrestler. I don't know if I could set out to be a concert pianist. I'm now so many years past the learning phase of the mechanics where most people learn so when i hear anything's possible it's like i i don't want to wrestle with it but i do i i i don't want to send like a uh what's a message to myself or others that sets them up for failure but i also want to send

this really clear message to think big and to to really yeah so can you help me with that i think you know again you said being in continuity i thought if you if you came to me and said nicholas you know what i think that i can be a fun thing and i you know i'm i'm 100 focused i'd be i'd be absolutely like yeah i think you can as well anything's possible because I think you said you know you're beyond the age of development regarding you know developing techniques to be a pianist and so was I 14 is I mean the amount of teachers and people say well you've started to that you'll never be you know you'll never be on the international circuit and things you know so in that sense i i that still i still i still think because it has to come you have to have that absolute die-hard passion to be you know you have to so you know being a concert pianist might not be but i think if someone did think

something that was absolutely they had that image in their head and they were completely like i was when i was 14 and that was my decision it was a conscious decision I was going to be not just to play the piano I was going to be a concert pianist as in I was my job was to play the piano around the world then that then I definitely do still stand by my little motto I love it because you know I you know, when you reach a certain age, I hear more people now my age, which I'm 40, what am I, 44. I hear people now my age saying, well, it's kind of too late to shift gears. And I find myself going, hold on, you could set out to do something. And then I hear myself playing back, well, I couldn't be a pianist. I couldn't be this.

I couldn't be that. I don't have that drive to want to do any of those really and so it's like theoretically yeah you know I wouldn't you know I couldn't have this same and I wouldn't apply that motto anything is possible for me to be an Olympic diver because I have no interest in that I don't want to be to do that so I wouldn't I wouldn't I don't feel I would interest in that. I don't want to be, to do that. So I wouldn't, I wouldn't, I don't feel I would succeed in that. But if it, if there was something else, if I had something in my head where I was like,

I really, really want to do that, then I 100% still, I still believe that. And then, so that same, your parents installed that idea. Is that right? They did.

Yeah, they did. They were great. My parents, especially, you know, I kind of, and I always give them give them credit and when I'm doing interviews and things I always like to mention them because I think it must be so difficult for them you know I was their first and only child you know and what's the there's always that saying which always makes me feel kind of a little bit sad but happy at the same time that I've got the parents that I have where you know when a baby's first born and they're like yeah a healthy baby

10 fingers and 10 toes and with my mom and dad it was like healthy baby but not quite the full set of 10 fingers and 10 toes I always feel quite quite kind of sad for them as kind of young pair you know they're a young uni wed couple and they were so excited for their firstborn and and with me my arm didn't show up until i was born so in the scans that my mom has had throughout her pregnancy and i always joke with them now and say i was hiding my arm um that you know so it was it was a massive massive shock for them it was a huge shock and i i i don't know how I would deal with that. How did they?

Have you ever asked them how they would? No, I haven't. My mum was upset, of course. She was upset. I was here as well. Well, I think they both were. And then I think my granddad had said to them, I think it was here, he said,

look, he's no different, he's got one hand, you know, this is fine, it's not going to be an issue, you know, it's not the end of the world, he's a healthy baby, and I think you just put it in, you know, it helps wear away that shock, you know, that initial shock is something which you can't get over, I think. And very quickly, you know, I think they just accepted it. It is what it is. There's nothing they can do, nothing they can change. Yeah, that's really cool. It's cool in the sense that they were honest with you

of how they struggled with it, and then they figured out an incredible thought to pass on to you, which is that anything is possible. And then I would imagine that carried through for you an incredible thought to pass on to you which is that anything is possible and then and then i get i would imagine that carried through for you when you when you were applying to the royal college of music and i don't know if they've accepted or they have a history of people that played left hand of music but um you're the only you're the first and only well Well, I didn't know that until I graduated. So I graduated in 2012. And after four years of study there.

And on my graduation day, so I was in the road in my hat, whatever you call it. And my professor rang me up. And I was just about to walk, you know, to go on stage. And he rang me up and said, Nick, Nick, now you've actually, Nick, now you're about to graduate.

Now you've made history in becoming the first ever one-handed or left-handed pianist to graduate in 135 years, which, of course, I didn't know. You know, the college is only about 134 years old. So, yeah, in that whole time, I was was the only one and I didn't realise that. And then the next day all of the national news had picked up on it, so my graduation was in all the papers here which was again something which I would never ever have dreamt of or thought of would be something which I could say. So it was an amazing time it was an amazing time 2012 was was when things really changed for me um you know a couple of weeks later i played at the paralympic closing ceremony with

cold play who plays with cold play after they graduate for two years i mean that this whole that summer was just mad mad that's awesome yeah very cool what a great little boost coming right out of out of your college experience yeah I just I kept pinching myself the whole time thinking that is this happening now okay so is there a word or a phrase that cuts to the center of what you understand most about life, music, you, others? You're asking a very good question. Are you saying that because you don't know what to say? Or is it like forcing you to think a certain way?

No, very good question because you're really making me think of the things that I wouldn't think about ordinarily. Okay, so hold on as you're getting your thoughts there. Are you exceptional at what you do? Without sounding full of myself. Because there's always that you know but I would say yes I would say I'm very proud

of what I can do at the piano I'm very proud of my history and the fact I didn't start at the age of two there's all these things which I'm very proud of so I would say yes in as modest way as possible

yeah no right and I just wanted to level set that because um i don't know music like you know music and but when i listen to you play i feel something and it's not because you have one hand it's because of the way that you've strung notes together and you're playing pieces that are written for left-handed only as I've come to understand and it's not clunky it's it's not there's no distractions in it it's that your craft is translating to convey some sort of internal experience for the listener and so that feels like artistry now I don't know I maybe I'm just making that up, but it feels like you've developed a command over left-handed pieces

and music maybe in general, I don't know. But that being said, if you and I are going to nod our heads in the most humble of ways to say that, yes, you've got a command, there's always room to grow, but what is it that you understand most? I mean, just if I can just answer you, with regards to, you know, when you said, are you exceptional, there's faster. And I say this to people all the time. There's always somebody who can play things better,

faster, cleaner than you. For me, it's about communicating something so I'm so pleased that you've just mentioned the artist and that's what you felt from my performances because that is what I aim to do and that is what I want to do you know I'm quite happy to say and have you know that like I said there's there's I'm quite happy to say, and like I said, I'm not the best pianist in the entire planet. I don't think anybody is. I think that's impossible to be that. And if you feel you are that, then believe me, someone can play it better than you. But I think you can communicate through your craft, whatever that is. And I think that is the thing which makes you exceptional,

if you can communicate through that medium. And that's what I hope I do. That's what I hope I do with my audiences. And some feedback from audiences, they tell me that I do. But I'm always constantly striving to do that more, to do that clearer, to do that, to communicate in a stronger way. So, then getting back to if I could think of a word to cut through everything to do with, I suppose, me, my music, everything. I would say belief. That's what I would say, just one word, just belief. Because a lot of the time, and that applies to other people, you know, a lot of my audiences, they have come to see me because they've seen me on

television, for instance. And they've only come to see me because they've seen me on television for instance and they've only come to see me because they're curious and I know that I'm a curious person we're human beings but they've believed in me and they've had that belief in me that I am worth spending x amount of money on a ticket to go and see even if they're not interested in classical music and believe me a lot of people who come to my concerts aren't interested in classical music but what I love is the fact that they come back time and time again and they bring more people and they bring more friends and they bring their family and bring their mum and those people are the ones that I hope that I have communicated through and touched in some way. So I would say belief, for me belief in self-belief and all that,

but also belief from other people, belief, having them believe in me as an artist. So what are you setting out to do? Are you setting out to get approval from others because of all of the naysayers you had early? Or are you setting out to be a communicator? Or are you setting out to be famous? What are you setting out to do? I would say when I was younger,

it used to just be getting approval from others. Then very quickly it became not about that. It didn't bother me. I don't care about that. And now I don't care about that. For me it's about communicating and the amount of times I see people when they come backstage after a concert and they're in tears about a piece that I've played which has touched them because it was their mum's favourite piece or they're so happy because they've heard this piece and they didn't think it was possible to play with one hand that is what I want to continue to do and that is what makes my job so worthwhile is me being able to create that emotion through that instrument and then if there was a belief yeah or make somebody happy or make somebody sad or whatever

me being able to create that through my music, which I love so much, that is what it's about for me. So it really is a relationship with other people that you're doing? Yeah, okay. The same thing, and you know, I'm in the classical music industry, so there's only so far same you can go. So that certainly isn't the case, otherwise I would have been a pop singer so yeah the same thing that certainly isn't me obviously that it's nice that I get to do

some nice things now which I would not been able to do before if I you know if I wasn't doing the job that I'm doing but I would have picked certainly something more popular than classical music if I wanted to become famous. I would have been a reality star. That seems to get them everywhere at the moment. It's probably a lot easier. Is there a relationship with your inner critic that you can talk about? And the inner critic meaning that voice that would challenge your idea that anything is possible.

My inner critic, you see, has got a bit of a full-time job with criticizing my playing. so regarding criticising my kind of you know myself criticising my my motto my belief that anything is possible I don't think it does I don't think my I don't think I do

I don't think I do self critique that because I believe it through and through when you are critical what is that about? When I'm critical, I think, you know, you're worst critic, that's the saying, isn't it? And it's so true. And I think that is just about improvement. You know, it's constantly learning, constantly improving.

You know, the day I come off stage and say that was a fantastic performance and I was brilliant well that is the day that I will I will get quite worried because then I think I've become complacent and I think that I've become too yeah too complacent with my playing whereas at the moment which is which I think is good is you know I come off stage and of course you know I'm a concert pianist and my standard has to be a certain standard and it's not going to be you know littered with wrong notes and I can't you know playing horrible things it's not going to be like that but I'm saying critiquing about you know that G sharp wasn't great in that third movement and that was a bit loud in the

fourth movement there and you know it was it was just kind of self critiquing in a way of improvement so next time when I go to play that piece publicly I can think last time I did it let's do something differently here let's do that there and I think that is so important because it's you know yes as a former you're always striving for perfection but perfection doesn't exist and and I think that is why it's always that that self-critique that self-criticism which I value a lot it's very important okay do you have a particular story that comes to mind with your relationship with risk-taking, especially when you've got an inner critic that's telling you that it's not good enough, basically?

And do you have a story that comes to mind about risk-taking? Yeah, I do, but I can't think of it off the top of my head. I've always been a risk-taker regarding my choices of repertoire. You see some pianists or some performers or whatever, they always play it quite safe with programming and a programme of music together or whatever they're doing. With me, I've always been wanting to push myself. You know, I'm not just going to be programming pieces which I find simple, which I find easy. I'm going to be programming pieces which I find extremely difficult, extremely challenging. Pieces which don't necessarily agree with my technique because

as a pianist we always have strengths and weaknesses um so i i do enjoy i enjoy doing that i enjoy getting my teeth into into that so i would say in that respect i'm a risk taker and again with recording like with when i recorded album, there were things which I put on the album which people would, which I know, people say are notoriously difficult, difficult pieces to play. to so I can say right well that is such a big challenge it's so so difficult but I've recorded them and they they're on they're on the album you know it's I like to do that I like to take risks okay so on that note and then threading back a couple other concepts here is that you've got we opened up with this decoding the process that goes that you've become masterful at when the world says you can't or somebody says you can't and you sort out how you can and then you commit to it and and also that anything is impossible and that you

what the thing you understand most is belief and that you structurally embrace risk-taking probably to put you on point so that you get that just the right amount of energy when you go on stage and you've got a relationship with the inner critic that helps keep you sharp i don't know if it slows you down or accelerates your performance i'm not sure yet i think you like it and then so now that gets me to this one question that is if with all of that being understood about you, if you could help install a belief to the listeners, what belief, you know, we all have those voices inside, you know, we all have our inner self telling us things. And a lot of people ignore that a lot of people try and ignore it so i would try and get the listeners just to believe in that inner self because that belief in your inner self

really can help you achieve amazing things and then on on do you have a framework that supports that relationship with your inner self like Is there a spiritual framework or a philosophical framework that you've grown up with that helps to keep that relationship with you and the world intact in some kind of way? I don't think so. I do I I'm just quite in tune with with listening to to what my body is telling me to listen to what my inner self is telling me or not telling me at the same time um I just think that is a relationship I have I'm not I'm I'm not sure I do have you know a framework which kind of enables enables that to be stronger or you know whatever and then how okay so how do you keep yourself mentally strong like what is the process for you to do that i think the thing like i mentioned earlier in when we were chatting you know my my little routine that i have you know going to the

gym going for a run having that clear headspace where my thoughts can just wander or can be frenetic if they need to be or can or can be frenetic if they need to be or can be thinking about grocery shopping if they need to be. You know, that space. I think in our society now, there isn't really any time. People don't take time to be silent. We're surrounded by music. People have got earphones in 24 hours a day.

So there's never any time just to be with your thoughts and I think for me that is so important that and that's why I one of the reasons I do go running is because of that and so I would say yeah that that's very important that routine that silence that i i have daily i love that a lot i concur one thousand percent the value like at some point in time machines are going to take over menial tasks or jobs that do not require thinking deep thinking and what's going to be left is artistry and creative, deep problem solving and thinking. And if those of us that fall behind on being aware of thoughts, because that's what thinking is the the futurizing of the apocalypse but you know I don't want it to be doom and gloom and as I'm sharing it but maybe another more eloquent way of saying is one of the greatest assets we have as

human beings is to be able to think and to think deeply and if we're not careful based on the surface level of media that we're bombarded with, that our ability to think deeply is compromised. And part of thinking deeply requires the ability to focus deeply. And with all of the noise as a counterbalance that's coming in from all different parts of life, whether that be social media or regular media or just even the gray noise in the background from traffic and pollution and chit-chat from other people across whatever modes of transportation there are in the background, that all of that noise can become a saturation for the ability to focus deeply.

And so the long-winded way of me saying focusing deeply to think deeply is one of the hallmarks of being human. And I get concerned with what I witness and what I feel within myself when I don't do it myself and what I observe in other people. And one of the threads that's come through on these conversations on this podcast is that people really do value creating space to feel and to think and it sounds like you know you're right on that same path yeah i think i couldn't i don't think i could create what i do create with music without that without that space without that time to think without that you know and like i say to you you know it's not about me thinking very deeply about you know sometimes it is but sometimes it is just very superficial things which are going through my head but it is just allowing my head to to have that

brilliant that that is so important i think brilliant okay so let's let's see if we can kind of round the corner here i've got i'd love for you to just bang off some numbers from 1 to 10. And any commentary obviously is welcome, but on 1 to 10, with 10 being high and then 1 being low on a scale, if you would, how important is the mental aspect of the game for you? Nine. Nine. Nine. And then your ability to switch on and to be on point? Ten. Ten. Your ability to switch off and to de-escalate intensity? Ten. And your ability to manage internal distractions? I think for me, yeah, maybe five. And your ability to manage external distractions? Ten. Your ability to lock in and focus when it's boring 10 10 really okay why do you laugh when you sit when you answer that one

because sometimes you have to you know when you're and i'm talking in my head when i'm answering these i'm talking about performing i'm talking about my performances and things okay and sometimes you can go you know it's like with comedians when they say you're playing to a dry house that happens in classical music as well sometimes you can walk out on stage and you could be giving the most electrifying performance but you're not getting that energy and that that that excitement back from the crowd sometimes and it's not because they don't like you it's just sometimes it just happens like that so that is and you sense it as an artist so it's very important for me to be able

and that's when i call you know with boredom it's very important for me to kind of switch off from that yeah you know what i've noticed and i'd love to hear your take on this is that oftentimes public speaking is very hostile for people. And one of the reasons I think it's hostile is because their ego and or their identity is fused with their thinking, their ability to think clearly, and their reputation that others are ascribing to them. And so it becomes this internally very hostile experience for so many people. And one other thing, one of the triggers, I think, is that if you are looking out into the world and we're trying to read other people's micro facial expressions and body language to see if we're okay, that when we go on stage, there's a blank look. There's a completely blank look. And if our model is to look to others to see

if we're okay, and then when we're on stage and we're using that, applying that same model, which is to look to the audience to see we're okay, people are going to get screwed up on stage. Because oftentimes audiences aren't giving anything, especially if there's bright lights, you know, on who's ever on stage so i think you're completely right because i think you know if you were a comedian for instance you know if they like you because they're laughing out loud or if they don't like you're being heckled and like when a sports person you know if you're like you get huge cheers and it's that electricity and that buzz. Whereas with classical, obviously we rely on silence in the concert hall and when you're performing on stage. So you don't often know until after. Bear in mind, you can be playing and work for 45 minutes sometimes

without stopping. If you're playing a piano concerto, for instance, and you've got that 45 minutes, the applause doesn't come until the end. So that whole 45 minutes of doing something, really, you don't know if you've done a good job, or if the audience feels you've done a good job, and if they like what you've done, right until the end. And even then, I mean, I've played concerts, and especially when I was at the beginning of my career, when, you know when I was playing smaller concerts than I do now. And I'd be playing a small concert to, say, 50 people or something.

And you would play this concert, and the applause afterwards that you'd get, it would be as if they weren't enjoying it. It would be as if they didn't like you. And that used to be really hard for me, because I would convince myself that they didn't like me at all. Until afterwards, I'd sign CDs and now, you know, 50 people, kind of, you know, 39 would buy CDs and tell me how wonderful the recital was and how much they loved it. Yet, they weren't showing it.

They weren't showing it in their applause. It was the flattest applause ever. You know, their facial expressions were very flat. Yet, actually actually sometimes people just don't know how to to express that and so who determines if a piece is successful do you determine it or does the vibrance of the applause determine it i think it's a combination of both i think you know obviously i know if something's not quite gone as i'd wanted it to go or if it's gone absolutely amazingly and i think you know if it has gone absolutely amazingly yet the applause

is very flat then that would worry me you know it very it happens very rarely luckily but yeah i think also sometimes it's more than the audience sometimes it's more than the audience the audience members get a bit scared as in etiquette wise, especially in classical, as in they don't know what to do. They don't feel hugely comfortable. So often, you know, the applause won't be that full if it wasn't a small audience. And hence why it's difficult for people at the beginning of their careers

because you are playing small audiences. Now, when, you know, we're playing to much larger audiences, there's almost like strength in numbers you know so so people are more free to to applaud for a longer amount of time and to make you feel appreciated as an artist because like i say strength in numbers it does kind of give them that ability okay cool um go back to one to ten are you motivated by external rewards or your motivation of external rewards? You know, money, fame, attention, applause, all that stuff. 1 to 10. 8.

Motivated by internal rewards, the sense and the feeling that comes with mastery. 10. Your fear of failure. Used to be, and that is in 10 the most, yeah? Yeah, yeah. So it used to be 10 when I was first starting out and kind of, you know, up to about maybe 20, 21. Now it's about five.

Okay. And then is it one to 10 looking bad as compared to, I'll ask you another one, consequences of loss. So one to 10 looking bad as compared to I'll ask you another one consequences of loss so one to ten looking bad I think oh so me looking bad mm-hmm I and then the consequence of like blowing it on stage coming up short if you will the consequence of that yeah maybe six six yeah your fear of success one to ten one I love that how how important is music in your life outside of work. Ten. Spirituality. Six. Science.

Eight. Breaking rules. Ten. Taking risk. Ten. Being self-critical. Nine. Relationships with intimate others. Ten.

Having great habits. Five. Sleep. Ten. Very important to me. Caffeine. One. I don't drink coffee. You don't drink coffee. Okay. And then of all the mental skills, which is the one that you think are is most important is it generating that that calm intensity is it confidence is it the ability to focus deeply is it using your imagination to create images of success or is it maybe like a

pre-performance routine or something to put you on point i would say confidence i think that can be that can be used in so many things you know can draw that confidence on stage or public speaking or just meeting up with somebody for an interview or whatever. So I think confidence, I would say that's, yeah, that's the one. Beautiful. Okay. So lastly, how do you define or articulate mastery? What is the ways that you talk about this? For being a pianist, of course, it's a given that high technical ability is a must. But the communication aspect for me me and that applies to not just myself when I go and see other musicians perform that's what I want to see is the communication I want them to speak to me I want me to feel something the amount of times I've been to

concerts and I've seen amazing technical fireworks displayed at the piano or on the violin whatever yet I've left that console feeling completely cold and untouched and that I think is a shame so mastering being a master and you know mastering your craft is for me about absolutely being able to communicate to your audience including audiences who aren't usually audiences of your genre if you like that's probably the part you know beautiful okay and then nicholas where can we learn more about what you're up to and what you're doing? And, you know, give us all the links where we can go get your music and figure out, you know, how we can observe you doing your thing. And I don't know if you have plans coming to the States at any time soon or for the European listeners if you're on tour now, but, you know, give me everything, you know, social us give me everything you know social give me everything so I think the best place for you to for your listeners to kind of see me in action because that's it you know essentially yes it's about listening as well but I think because a lot of your you know a lot of your listeners won't have heard me before won't have seen me play I think go on YouTube, go onto my YouTube channel, Nicholas McCarthy Pianist, and just see what I do

and make your decision. See if you like it, see if you like the music. You know, there's so many videos on there. So yeah, at the moment, I'm just about to go on my UK tour over here, my UK album tour, and my album, which I called Solo solo for two reasons it's called solo one it's my debut album and it's solo piano so that's an obvious one but two it's solo hand single hand so i wanted to almost to remind people of that in the title because often when you're listening to an audio cd people forget that it's only one hand playing because it does sound like two hands if you like so i i actually recorded my album over in over in boston over in the states so of course i'd love your listeners to go and and have a have a listen to the album see what they think and let

me know what they think um come and say hi on twitter i'm always on twitter and mccarthy piano and also my facebook page nicholas mccarthy pianist and yeah i'd love to see what what your listeners thoughts are on my playing and all my performances uh i think i have i have no doubt there's going to be loads of questions and so i'm looking forward to that conversation that will extend this conversation. And so it's N as in Nancy or N as in Nicholas McCarthy, M-C-C-A-R-T-H-Y. And that's your Twitter handle, right? N McCarthy? Piano, yeah. N McCarthy Piano.

Oh, that's Twitter. Perfect. Okay. So, Nicholas, thank you so much. I was excited and fired up to meet you and I really appreciate you helping me understand the process that you go through to be able to tackle and to to be able to go for it and so thank you so much and for the rest of folks that are listening thank you for being part of this journey and this conversation and you can go to iTunes and look for Finding

Mastery if you're brand new to this conversation and then you can go to iTunes and look for Finding Mastery if you're brand new to this conversation. And then you can also find out more information about Nicholas on findingmastery.net. Please hit us both up on social. My Twitter handle is at Michael Gervais. And you can also go to facebook.com forward slash finding mastery. Okay, Nicholas, great to meet you. Loved how you've articulated and you are excellent at communicating. So I want to thank you so much for your time and wish you all the best success. And I'm looking forward to catching up in the future

and just to learn how your tour is going. So let's make sure we find some time to do that. Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me. Really appreciate it. Okay, all the best. Have a great afternoon. Take care. Bye, that. Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me. Really appreciate it. Okay. All the best. Have a great afternoon. Take care.

Bye, Michael. Bye. All right. Thank you so much for diving into another episode of Finding Mastery with us. Our team loves creating this podcast and sharing these conversations with you. We really appreciate you being part of this community. And if you're enjoying the show, the easiest no-cost way to support is to hit the subscribe or follow button wherever you're listening. Also, if you haven't already, please consider dropping us a review on Apple or Spotify. We are incredibly grateful for the support and feedback. If you're looking for

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