Finding Mastery with Dr. Michael Gervais - Rebecca Rothstein, Top Wealth Advisor

Episode Date: June 6, 2018

This week’s conversation is with Rebecca Rothstein, a private wealth advisor focused on helping high-net-worth individuals, families and institutions pursue their financial goals through wealth management, tax minimization strategies and legacy planning services.In 2017, Forbes named Rebecca one of “America's Top Wealth Advisors" and this year recognized her as the #1 “Top Women’s Wealth Advisor.”What stands out in this conversation is while Rebecca’s area of expertise may appear on the surface to be wealth management, her true gift is her ability to build relationships with her clients, her team, and her family.One of Rebecca's key indicators for success is maintaining a high retention rate -- which she has.When I asked her why her client retention was so high, it of course came down to quality relationships: her ability to listen, communicate, and develop trust with her clients.In Rebecca’s words, “The most important thing that you learn when you’re taking on someone’s money, is that you have to make them explain to you what their point of view is and not give them your point of view.”I think you’ll notice some parallels between Rebecca’s relationship-oriented approach to business and successful coaches that have previously come on the podcast such as Pete Carroll, Luke Walton, and Shaka Smart._________________Subscribe to our Youtube Channel for more powerful conversations at the intersection of high performance, leadership, and meaning: https://www.youtube.com/c/FindingMasteryGet exclusive discounts and support our amazing sponsors! Go to: https://findingmastery.com/sponsors/Subscribe to the Finding Mastery newsletter for weekly high performance insights: https://www.findingmastery.com/newsletter Download Dr. Mike's Morning Mindset Routine! https://www.findingmastery.com/morningmindsetFollow us on Instagram, LinkedIn, and X.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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All right. Welcome back or welcome to the Finding Mastery podcast. I'm Michael Gervais. And by trade and training, I'm a sport and performance psychologist and the co-founder of Compete to Create, which is a joint venture with coach Pete Carroll. He's the head coach of the Seattle Seahawks, and we're having a blast building that company right now. But the idea behind these conversations is to learn from people who are on the path of mastery to better understand what they are wrestling with, what they're searching for, what they're driven by. And then we also want to dig to understand their psychological framework and the mental skills that they use to build and refine their craft. Finding Mastery is brought to you by LinkedIn

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slash finding mastery. That's David, D-A-V-I-D, protein, P-R-O-T-E-I-N.com slash finding mastery. Now, this week's conversation is with Rebecca Rothstein, a private wealth advisor focused on helping high-net individuals, families, and institutions pursue their financial goals. Phenomenal. And she does it through a combination of skills, wealth management, tax minimization, and legacy planning services. So in 2017, Forbes named Rebecca one of America's top wealth advisors.

And this year she was recognized as the number one top women's wealth advisor. So we're fortunate to get her wisdom inside of this podcast and conversation. I hope this conversation does her justice because she really does understand a lot. The path that she's led and the insights that she has, there's gold dust littered throughout this conversation. And what stands out most is that while her area of expertise may appear on the surface to be wealth management, her true gift is her ability to build relationships with her clients, with her team, with her family. And it is the importance of relationships that jumps out at this conversation. And one of her key indicators for success is maintaining high retention rates, which she has. And when I talked about why, how was she able to keep her clients,

she indicated a few reasons and they all came down to relationships. And of course it comes down to relationships, her ability to listen, to communicate and develop trust with her clients. And here's evidence of kind of how she thinks about it in her words. She said, the most important thing that you can learn when you're taking someone's money is that you have to make them explain to you what their point of view is and not give them your point of view. And in essence, what that is, that is a client centered approach. And that oftentimes makes for great relationships. And I think you'll notice some parallels between Rebecca's relationship orientated approach to business and successful

coaches that have previously come on the podcast, such as coach Carol, Luke Walton, Shaka Smart. All of those are on findingmastery.net. You can check those out. They're phenomenal conversations. And with that, let's jump right into this gem of a conversation with Rebecca Rothstein. Rebecca, how are you? Very well, thank you. How are you? Well, I feel like at any given point in time, I'm running downhill and it's like, like there's a lot to do to run downhill or uphill. And you know, at any given point in time I could scrape my chin and so that's how I'm doing. That's what it feels like. But it's easier to run down than it is to run up. Just saying. It is. It is. Okay. So why money? Why have you dedicated your life efforts to helping other people with their money? Well, that's not exactly true.

Cool. So what happened was, can I go back a little before that? No. So what happened was, is that I was, I dropped out of high school and I never went to college. And unlike you, I didn't go on and have all of the fantastic experiences that you had in education, which I regret. How did you go from not high school or not having college to being one of the top producers in the world? So for a much longer story than you need to hear, but I did not have an idyllic childhood. And my father and I were scraping at each other nonstop. And one day he said,

you're out of here. I went, okay, I'm leaving. And I left and I never finished high school. How old were you? 17. And I'm compressing a much longer story. It's really not that important, but so I said, fine. I think this is actually really important. Okay. Because you're, you are confirming something that has been a working thesis for me for a long time.

And I'm going to leave it blank for just a moment, okay? Because I don't want to lead the witness, so to speak. I don't want to give you something that you go, you know, like I really want to keep from a clear thinking here, okay? But what was the thought underneath the anger or the, the emotion underneath the anger for you to say, fuck off? I don't know specifically the answer to that question. Um, but I never, never really gave any thought to the fact that I wasn't going to be okay. I just knew that I'd be okay. I mean, it was years leading up to that. I mean, my parents would go to the beach club and I wasn't allowed to go. And, you know, there was all sorts of, you know, put Rebecca off to the side because I was a troublemaker. And my father did something that

you only have one child. I have four children. And so you haven't had to have this experience, but when you have multiple children, it's not okay to make one of them a scapegoat. And my father allowed my sisters and my brother to be disrespectful to me. What's happening right now as you talk about it? Oh, it's fine. Yeah. So it's not like in your body? No, not anymore. Yeah. And how have you worked through that?

Well, so here's the story. So I got thrown out of my house when I was 17, and I got a job working three jobs. I was a hot walker, I worked at a bank, and I worked at a restaurant. What's a hot walker? A hot walker is the person that walks the horses down when they come off the track. And one thing led to another, which led to another, because I had never asked my parents for money, not one penny. And my father thought I would learn a lesson and I'd come home, but I never did. But for a series of circumstances, I came to California. I was in New Jersey at the time.

I came to California, and almost immediately when I got here, I met the man that I'm married to. And I took him home and cooked him dinner, and we had sex, and we've been together ever since. But my husband. You weren't 17, were you? I was. No. No, by then I was 18. I was 18 years old.

And I was super cute. You're super cute. Look at that. Okay. So, okay. Are you okay to go here? Yeah. Like for me to pull on some threads here?

I've cleaned all this out a long time ago, so I'm good. Okay. I want to, there's like two things. One is, oh my God, there's a lot. How did you know you're going to be okay? Put a pin in that one for a minute, okay? How did you figure out that this was going to be the man that you're going to marry? Oh, I didn't know that for years. Well, I married him, but I didn't know he was going to be the man. Oh, so, okay. So it was just good early on. I didn't know he was going to be the man. I just said, oh, you want to get married? Okay, fine, I'll get married. So I met this guy, I cooked for him, we started to be together. I was so angry, you know, like really angry. And we would start, I would start terrible fights with him. And he's a lovely gentle soul and i kept not physically but literally punching him you know to to get him involved in my anger and he would look at me and he'd say are you done and i would say

yeah i'm good now and that went on right and he never he didn't leave me which was shocking because i was a real pain in the ass so he didn't leave me. It sounds like it, by the way. Say it again? It sounds like it. Oh, terrible. Yeah. But, you know, I was working. I got a job working in various jobs. And I was working at the Sheraton Universal as a coffee shop clerk.

And, I mean, we had this sort of small little lovely life that I was a pain in the ass in. And he was never. My husband has never started a fight with me in the ass in. And he was never, my husband has never started a fight with me in the 42 years we've been together. I was mean and nasty. So he realized like, if I start a fight, it could be even worse. Yeah. He, and, but he was like, are you done? Are you finished now? And so, you know, I think people need to work their shit out. How did you work your stuff out? I just worked my shit out. I really did. I looked i looked at it look took a hard look at it

and i sort of put values on the things that were valuable and tried to let the rest of them go does that and i have no i have no anchor anymore you don't not a smidge i don't know you that way meaning that i've never i've never thought you know that oh well rebecca's successful because she bullies people no no i have no anger at all anymore. But I had to really work hard at it. Okay, you're saying I had to work at it. I know what a textbook and what the art, when you're doing the work with somebody, how to help move through that process, the science and the art of it. But you're saying I just did it. That's like Michael Jordan saying, if I would ask Michael Jordan, how are you so successful, he'd say, I just put the science and the art of it. But you're saying, I just did it. That's like Michael Jordan saying, you know, if I would ask Michael Jordan,

how are you so successful? He'd say, I just put the ball in the hole. Well, Ronnie would tell you, if Ronnie was sitting in this room, Ronnie would tell you that I had many years of anger, that I would spew out things and, you know, be angry. And then I would, you know, he's famous for saying, are you done now? You know, but he didn't leave me and he didn't say, you're a horrible person. I'm leaving you now. He stayed and he sort of helped me to work it out. We didn't have kids for seven years. We had a lot. I argued with him a lot in those seven years, a lot. You know, this is reminding me of is that, you know, if you've got this dog and you're training your dog and the dog is, let's call it aggressive and it bites you on the ankle, so to speak, and you ignore the dog and you just don't entertain it. You don't really, right?

And after a time, the dog's like, oh, God, this doesn't work. I should just walk normally. And so it's almost like Ronnie wore you out. I think it's possible. I mean, I have to think more thoroughly about what you just said, but I think that what he really did was he gave me a safe place to feel okay about myself. Because I'd never had that in my upbringing. I didn't have any of that. And he gave me a safe place, and we had a great time, and we loved each other. And he, it was kind of like pounding,

you know, like, okay, I'm pounding on you. And he would say, okay, are we done yet? And he would just, we would talk through whatever it was. It usually revolved around my father. And I think Ronnie thinks that it created a certain trauma, which I'm sure it must have, but I chose not to be that person. And I made an intentional decision to be who I am. Was there a moment that you're thinking of where that took place or was it like a work in progress to one day you're like, yeah, it's, this isn't working. I'm not sure what I want to be or who I want to be. Or was there a light bulb moment? Like I'm done. I'm done with anger. I'm done with rage. I'm done. It just petered itself out over time because I came-

I replaced that with a healthy relationship. And I replaced that with success. And I replaced that with family. And it was good. But so going back, so I want to step back. So I didn't finish high school, met this guy, got a job. And I got a job. I have so much piss and vinegar.

I don't know anybody who's like me. I mean, there is just nothing I won't say yes to. And if I tell you I'm going to do it, I 100% do it. And I figure it out how to get it done. And if I don't know, I'm going to say, I don't know how to do this, but I'm going to figure out how to do this. Why do you say yes? Why not? Because it could be a bad idea. Well, Why do you say yes? Why not? Because it

could be a bad idea. Like what is the filter for you? Well, I wouldn't say yes to a bad idea, but. So how do you, how do you, what's your filter to say yes? Because the reason I'm asking is because the piss and vinegar I get for you, right? Like the fire, that vibrance, the tenacity, and you had to use those to have all of that vitriol, you had to have some sort of intensity underneath of that to be able to say F you to an adult father figure that you didn't respect at the time. I think that was the same vitriol and the same tenacity that I had used growing up. Yeah, that's the link. Right.

I think it's probably the reason why my parents didn't like me either. That's right. And that was your tactic. That was your survival tactic to fit in the family. That's the one you chose. Some people use comic relief. Some people instead, they just get straight A's and don't look at me. There's lots of different ways. And I think there's actually seven research. I got to go back. I think there's like six or seven archetypes of people that come through abuse type relationships or family structures. It doesn't mean physical. It can mean lots of ways.

When there's mental disorder or addiction or something in the system that is dramatic, not necessarily healthy, but dramatic, that there's a handful of archetypes that come through it. Again, the joker, the straight A student, the angel, the codependent, the rebel. I can't remember the other couple, but you were the rebel. I was the rebel. Okay. But I want to go back to how do you say yes?

Why do you say yes? Because of the success that you've had. And I'm not talking about just paper. I'm talking about life success. But obviously the reason we met is because of your craft and the nuances that you have come to understand on how to make money work for people. And I could have it wrong, but that was our initial connection. And you've done it at an extraordinary level, an extraordinary way. How do you say yes? What is that filter to say yes to?

Because I get overwhelmed sometimes. I'll say yes to too much. Well, I'm older than you and I was guilty of that for many, many years. I don't do that anymore, but I'm not certain as to what gave me the self-confidence to know. I just had it, you know, just falls to the walls. It's going to be okay. What would happen if it didn't work out? I don't know the answer to that because it, you know, just falls to the walls, it's going to be okay. What would happen if it didn't work out? Well, I don't know the answer to that because it did work out, right? But the things that worked out, I mean, when I look at myself today and I think to myself, I mean, pretty much everybody that knows me likes me and I like pretty much everybody I know, like I find

something to like in them. So I look at the world in a positive and joyous way. And I have a very successful family. You know, my family, my four children are so close to each other that it's impossible for me to explain it to you. Like, I would tell you the stuff and you'd go, really? My kids are together all the time. The four of them are like, you know, they're intimately woven into one another's lives. They didn't have the same upbringing that I had where my parents allowed me to be pushed out to the side. So my children are fabulously successful human beings.

And my husband is a wonderful man who loved me no matter what. And it was challenging loving me, let me tell you. It was like, oh, crap, here she goes again. What did he see in you? I think that he saw in me, and I think he would tell you this, is that I was very, I have a big heart. I'm a very loyal person. person and I have an unlimited capacity, unlimited capacity to look out for other people, to care for other people, to see the best in those people, to be inclusive in them. You know, I'm constantly the person that has three people, five people, 12 people, 26 people over for dinner. I'm inclusive

in their relationships and I genuinely care. Like I would say if I saw something was off with you and we were friends, I would say, Hey, you know, you okay? You want to take a walk on the beach? I have an uncanny ability to see that, which helps me in my day-to-day career. Right? So it's, um, I think that those things go hand in hand. Finding Mastery is brought to you by Momentous. When it comes to high performance,

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Again, that's Felix Gray. You spell it F-E-L-I-X-G-R-A-Y.com and use the code FindingMastery20 at FelixGray.com for 20% off. What are the characteristics that you're aware of now that help you become world-class at your craft? I listen to what people are really saying. When you manage money for people, when you're intimately involved in their really important part of their life as far as the way that they live their life and the way that they measure themselves, when you have the intimacy to understand who these people are I know everything about you if I manage your money I know if you're a happy man a not happy man I know if you have a good

marriage I know how your children are I know if you're having an affair I know pretty much everything and I'm entrusted with that information which I would never divulge ever to anybody ever and most of my clients are men I would say more than 95 most of my clients are men. I would say more than 95% of my clients are men. And when you have, every man has a choice when they go out and they find a financial advisor, are they going to hire this person or that person? There are just as many, there are way more men in my business than there are women. And I win. And I win because I'm trustworthy. I don't want to sound that I'm underselling this. I know how smart I am. And I know how good I am at what I do. But I don't lead with that. I lead with, I'm going to really take care of your stuff.

I'm going to get involved in the fabric of what we're talking about. I'm not going to call you every day to buy and sell a stock. That's not what I do. I manage your wealth and I manage your family well-being. And so you can tell that to people. And it's only when they get to know you and they work with you for a while that they understand that that's genuinely true. And the trust that I have with my clients is unparalleled. How do you build trust with them? Because this sounds like a relationship-based business. It is a relationship-based business.

Yeah. And the relationships that you're squarely sitting on, finances, money, wealth, it's deeply emotional. And in my know, in my industry, when sometimes when people make mistakes, like there's real physical I also want to use it to understand how you've broken so many barriers and how you're so skilled at what you've done. There's not many women in your field, to your point, and somehow that has worked out really well for you. Well, I never considered myself to be a woman in my industry. I considered myself to be first and foremost an advisor. It just so happened that I was a woman, but I never felt that I wouldn't win. Like I felt like if I went out, if three people came to pitch you, Michael, and say, I want to be your financial advisor, and you sat in a room with me and you sat in a room with two other people, the likelihood of my winning would be higher than, you know, than anybody else. And the reason for that is, is that when you're talking to me and I'm looking at you straight in your eyes and I'm listening to what you have to say, I can then take that information and craft a solution for you that is what you want. It's not about what I want. And trust is something that only comes with time.

You don't, and you don't trust people when you first meet, I don't trust people when I first meet them. You may, but I don't. Trust is something that you will earn over time. And the other thing that happens in my industry, which has served me really well, is that it doesn't always work. You know, like we did this, and this is the reason why we did it. And you know what? It's just not working the way I wanted it to work. I would like to suggest that we change course, and here's the reason why. So you have to own your stuff like you would in any relationship.

But in my business, there's very easy ways to measure things. You know, who's the number one in the firm, and who's the number one that does this? And, you know, there's a lot of measuring going on. The only measurement that's ever been given to me that really holds value to me is that I have amongst the highest retention rates in the industry. I very seldom lose a client. Like, I mean, I could literally think in the last year that I've lost one client who I said, you know what, we're not getting along well and I'm not enjoying this experience and I don't think you are either. You know, some people are just enormously difficult to work with.

So that's the thing that matters to me is keeping you as my client and keeping you happy and having you say back to me, thank you. I really appreciate the work that you're doing. And I also go when markets are, the equity markets are choppy and they're volatile. And when markets are particularly volatile, I have a longstanding tradition in my business and all of the people that work for me of getting on the phone and calling the clients and saying, this is what happened today. And this is the reason why, and this is how it impacted you. And this is my advice going forward. That's a thing when you are proactive in my business and you let people know, you know, really what, what the thinking is and what you're

thinking around this. Those are how, those are the things that I want to be measured by. Really cool. Which is all process-based, you know, and then, Okay. So on air, can you talk about your clients, like their names? No. Or is that – that's off-air stuff? Because you've got – I have – yes. I do. I mean, from reputation alone, like the folks that you work with are ridiculously successful and financially wealthy.

And some are really famous and some not. So it doesn't bolster the storyline, but it helps to give texture. And I've run into the same problem, not problem, but challenge, you know, is that who I work with is a complete mystery for the most part. And the refinement of the craft happens not based on reputation of what others have said, but what happens in the room. So what do you, in the introduction, if you will, but there's a referral network process that happens. Like somebody says, Hey, go meet Rebecca. No, no, it doesn't happen that way. It didn't start like that. I mean, to go back to your original question. So I had no high school, never went to college,

worked as a buyer for seven years. And what the impetus was, and I think that this is a really important point to make, is that I worked as a matrice D at the Unishart and Universal. And I said, okay, I got to get something going here. So I got myself a job at a training program at the Broadway. I made $7,000 a year, which is a crazy amount of money at that time. But I became the first assistant store manager at the Broadway department stores in Crenshaw, which was an all African-American neighborhood. And I was this little piss-ass white girl. And I got this job there because nobody else wanted it. And I took it. And that was the first moment that I knew that I was going to be okay, you know, in my career.

So now I'm working along in my career doing that, and I said to myself, I'm traveling all the time, I'm not enjoying this experience, I wanted to have children. And my husband said, you're really good at math, and you're really good at understanding what's going on in the stock markets, you should become a stockbroker. And I said, ha, ha, ha, ha. Yeah, right. And he goes, no, no, you really, you should. So I studied at night and I got my stockbroker's license. And I quit my paying job. And I got a job working at a place that didn't pay me. And I started dialing for dollars. And I would get on the phone and I would call

people because in those days you could buy a list of people and I would call them up on the phone and I would say, hi, I'm Rebecca Rothstein. This is who I am. This is what I'd like to do. Can I possibly persuade you to have a conversation with me? So out of a hundred people, you know, 99 of them hung up. Some of them just hung up and some of them said, fuck you and hung up. So, but either way they hung up. But over time I got one person and then two people and then three people and then four people. And then I had 10 people. Then I had 20 people and then I needed an assistant. So I hired one. And so that's how it began. But when you do it the way I did it, as opposed to the way people do it today, when they get out of college, they've got a business degree, they get hired by a firm, they get put in a training program. I'm not sure that that does anybody any services because they don't really

understand what it's like to build a business. They sort of get into a business, right? And so today when I see young people building it and I try to explain to them that it's really brick by brick, right? So at the beginning, I was outbound calling. And then I started to get people saying, well, you know, my friend Bill could use your services as well. And I would go out and see Bill. And then, you know, one by one by one. But never did I have an expectation. I didn't even dream of being so successful that I would make more than $50,000 a year.

Like, oh my God, that's so much money. We can save money to buy a house, you know? So I really honestly had no expectation of the level of success that I have. Well, so good. You and I have a similar experience in that we had folks in our life that said, hey, there's something here for you. I think it'd be useful for you to go a little further in that area. So I didn't have this idea like, oh, I'm going and doing this in my life. It wasn't like that. And it sounds like you had from your husband a similar interceptive seed watering or seed planting and then watering over time.

And then you took it and it was actually, he was right. You've got some gifts with obviously relationship. And so is the second skill math or numbers? Yeah. So I have a very, I can run columns of numbers in my head. But instinctively, I understand when things provide value. And so when you're investing people's money, the key to that, the most important thing that you learn when you're taking on somebody's money is that you have to make them explain to you what

their point of view is and not try to give them your point of view, right? Because I'm not living in your life, so I don't really know where you're, what you value the most, you know, your home, your children's education, growth in the stock market, you know, investing in other businesses. So when you do what I do, when you do it really well, you don't put your own stuff in there. You put their stuff in there and you repeat it back to them. You know, I'm sure in your business, you're saying back to people, I want to make sure that I heard you right and this is what I heard. And so when you do that with somebody and then to keep a client, because people in my business make the mistake is once they've got the client, they move on to the next person they're trying to get as a client. In order to keep a client, you have to stay in touch with them and let them know how you're doing and give them a measuring stick by which to judge you.

How many clients do you have? Well, now I have about 120 households, but at my peak, I had way too many, which is why I have the number I have now. At my peak, I had more than 300 households. It's impossible in my business to have a business that has that many households. And people— Why do you use the word household? You know, I may have the wife, the husband. If they're divorced, I'll have the wife and the husband or the husband and the wife.

Their children, their siblings, their sisters and brothers. You know, when you get involved with a family, you tend to take care of many of that family. That whole family is a household. But each of those family members have different, you know, things that are going on with them. So I'm not very good at staying the long game. So I'm hearing you talk about the long game with clients. So what happens for me often is that somebody will come in and we'll spend intense, I mean, richly intense time. And there is nothing else that matters other than this deep connection between the two of us. And it's all about that person. It has nothing to do with me. And it's all about the other person. And they walk out going, oh my God, I understand myself better and I've got some ways to get better and I'm more clear about where I want to go and who I want to be. Brilliant. I don't have this long-term relationship with people. So I don't know, I'm listening to you wondering like, where am I

blowing it? And then, but I want to maybe even understand that maybe the nature of our businesses are very different, but how do you, if you've got 125 families, I think is the word you used, right? Households. Yeah. Same, same difference. How, how often do you connect with a client? At least once a quarter.

And is that a 10 minute call? It depends. You know, it depends on what the situation is, but it's no less than a 10 minute phone call. Okay. It can be as much as a lunch, a meeting, a sit down, a half to, you know, everybody comes in, all eight family members come in. We sit at the table for half a day. It really depends on what's going on with that family. Okay, so world-class, fill-in-the-blank person that you're managing their money, and he and I or she and I are sitting across the way. What would she say to me about you? Did they trust me implicitly?

Okay, and then, so trust takes time. How do you earn that trust from the get? And I want to tell you a funny, not funny, but important metric is that 60% of all psychology-based treatment is based on rapport. That means the relationship holds to 60, maybe 70%. Yeah. I was going to say, I would think it would be higher than that, but yeah. That's a lot. That's a big number. And that's not wonderful for the science piece. You've got to know the right tools because then people lose trust, like the right theory and science to apply.

But 60, 70% of the positive effect of growth happens from the relationship. So we've got ways that we study from a psychological perspective how to build rapport. How do you do it? It's not an easy answer. I mean, at the beginning, when somebody comes in to interview me, most people say, I've heard about you or read about you or this or that, and somehow they wind up in my office. And from the second they meet me and I look at you right in your eye,

straight eye to eye, and I shake your hand firmly, I say, how can I help you? And so that's my opening line with almost everybody. Because if somebody's come in to talk to me, they want my help. So I need to understand how I can help them. Is there a screening process? Oh yeah. There's, it's a deep screen before you even get to see me now, but that wasn't always the way. You know, in the early stages of my career, I was guilty for taking on anybody that was breathing. And you know, I would find myself hung up with something that wasn't making me any money, but I still, still then and still today put my heart and soul into it because that's who I am. But now you can't have an account with me unless

you have, you know, a large amount of money. What kind of money? Well, it's no less than two and a half million, but I don't take households that have less than 10 million except for the cash. Yeah. Well, cash and assets. It has to be a $10 million household, right? Okay. But I also am guilty of having a lot of peripheral people that I take care of that really shouldn't be my clients, but I still can't let them go because I know that I'm taking better care of them than somebody else would take care of them because my attention to detail is incredible and my recall for the information is really shockingly deep. And so I know who they are. I know what they want. I know what their foibles are. I know

what their stuff has been in their life going, you know, as they've moved along and I, and they trust me, you know, and so you don't just casually throw away people that were your clients when you didn't have a big book of business. So I hold onto them and now I have 12 people who work for me and they have been my lead assistants, 28 years, 26 years, 24 years, 20 years, 18 years, you know, long relationships. So my clients have long relationships with me and my staff. And so, and I've, um, my lead guy, you know, in the world of things that happen to you when you just catch a lucky break was hiring the first guy I hired. I hired him right out. He was still at UCLA in his senior year of school. And I hired him. His name is Herman. And when I first

met him, I said to him, who names their kid Herman? This is my first words out of my mouth. And he still teases me about it, but he's half Mexican, half Peruvian, and his name is Herman. So I, of course, teased him about that because he was 20 years old. And, you know, anyway, but Herman over the years has helped me along with a guy that was really recruited me and sort of molded me into taking a business and categorizing it because to be successful in my business, you have to be a generalist. And then you have to have people who are specialists that work with you. And so people, I have one person that does estate planning, one person that does lending, one person that does stock trading, one person that's an analyst, you know, and so forth.

And all of these people funnel into me, but I give them the direction. You know, this is what I want for this client. Got it. And this is how I want to be held. This is the standard I want to be held to. And so you can't run a business as big as mine by yourself. You need people. And I have great people that have been there a long time.

So all my clients know all those people. If I answer the phone, I'm always answering the phone. Whoever calls, I answer the phone and I go, hi. And they go, I don't want to talk to you. I want to talk to Tim. You know, I don't need you. I want to talk to Ricky, you know, important thing to be as an advisor to somebody is to hear you and ask you what it is that you want and what your goals are and what you're doing right now to achieve those goals. And then we can amend your path along the way and make a different suggestion to you. Okay. So that was my question. It's like for, for folks that are listening, me included, do you, what are the three criteria? And let me see if I can just take a run at it or like, what should I look for to hire somebody that manages money thoughtfully and you know, in a skilled way? Well, today it's easy, right? Well, today it's easy. When you, when I first started, it wasn't as easy, But today it's easy in knowing who you're talking to because you can look them up. The industry, the financial industry regulation, financial industry, I forget what it stands for, but it's FINRA. You can go on the internet and you can look up a financial advisor. And you can see whether or not that financial advisor has had client complaints,

compliance issues, anything that would be on their record. And if you look at that, and it seems to you that that's not a good thing, what they have, then you don't hire them. Yeah, that's good. So today, it's much easier than it used to be, because when I started, they didn't have any of that. Finding Mastery is brought to you by Cozy Earth. Over the years, I've learned that recovery doesn't just happen when we sleep. It starts with how we transition and wind down.

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That's calderalab, C-A-L-D-E-R-L-A-B.com slash finding mastery. So how should I think about money? Like really now I'm getting into the craft piece. Okay. So you've shared your story of how you've gotten here. You've unpacked how it is that you build your business, which is relationships, whether it's with the folks that you've hired or the folks that are coming to you for advice. You've got at least two, I think there's one more that I want to share, at least two crown jewels. One of them is your ability to really care,

get out of the way, to work ridiculously hard. That's the second. The third is the ability to do math and to kind of get the big picture. And then the fourth that I want to add is you have the ability, it sounds like, to be able to organize what's happening in the world and map it onto what's happening in somebody's world, whether it's their family or their own

ambitions and challenges. So you've got this global perspective and it can match the individual and putting those two together, I think is rare. That being said, let's say that I have 10 million, what ought I do? And I know you probably say, I can't answer that for you. Well, it's, I mean, it would require me interviewing you and find, trying to find out what it really is because you're saying, and you know, we go back to what you just said. I mean, your pillars are, you're having success in your career now, which has led up to this point where you have disposable income. You have a wife, you have a son, you only have one child, right? That's right. Yeah. You have a wife, you have a son, he's nine,

and you now have different pieces of your life that you're doing in your business that have potential to make a tremendous amount of wealth. So the first things that I would ask you when you would come in to see me is, do you own a home? Yes. How did you pay for the house? You tell me. Is your wife working? Are you sending up for your retirement plans? Are you looking to make sure that you're taking advantage of whatever the draconian tax laws allow you to put money away?

Crazy. It's difficult, you know, for sure. I mean, this is what I get paid so much for, to pay attention to the tax code. And then I would say to you, to pay attention to the tax code. And then I would say to you, now you've started these new businesses. How are you holding these businesses? Are these businesses, are you protected? Are you holding them in LLCs?

You know, we get into the granular detail of what it is that you have. And then we try to figure out whether or not, you know, let's say, for example, that you started a new business with Pete. And it has a tremendous amount of potential to make a tremendous amount of money. I'm just going to pick that as an idea. So we're going to have a tremendous amount of money. I'm talking major money, right? So when that happens, we want to make sure that the structure for you, the way that you hold that asset is the most tax efficient structure? And are we using this opportunity to have minority owners in your LLC so that you can gift things away to your son at a discounted valuation in the present that will have more value in the future? So these are things that we talk to people about and get into the intricacies of their life.

The single biggest, the two things that I do really well is talk people off the ledge because volatility in the stock market creates anxiety. And time after time after time without, I could tell you this 10 times a day, five days a week when markets are volatile, people call, should I get out? Should I get out? Should I get out? And I always say back to them, let's think about what we're talking about here. You have 20% of your total assets, total assets, which assets include your home, your art, your cars, your retirement plans, your stock accounts, you know, whatever other assets you own. And 20% of all of those assets are in the stock market. And if the stock market goes down by 10% and it goes down from being 20% to being 19%, is it going to change your life? And the answer to that question is generally no. So-

Do you recommend 20% of- It depends on who you are and it depends on where you are in your life. Younger people should clearly have more money invested in the equity markets than older people do. And so it depends on where you are in your life. But your retirement plans, this is a big mistake that people make. In your retirement plan, it should all be equity. There's not a place for bonds in a retirement account unless you're 70. But in a young person's account, as they're growing, because over the cycles of markets, markets are streaky. If I had a piece of paper and I could show the radio audience what this

looks like, but markets are streaky. And 10% pullbacks and 20% pullbacks are common over a long period of time. That's just the way the markets are. Bad news comes, people puke it out, and good news comes, and everybody's rushing to be a buyer. But if you stretch that out over 30 years, instead of the line looking jaggy, it looks kind of wavy, right? So if you know at 25 that you're going to retire at 70, right? I mean, just pick that number. You've got 45 years of investing in a retirement plan before you're going to take distribution. Why would you own a 3% bond? There's no point in that at all. So we tell all people all the way up till the time they start taking distribution to have

their money, all of their personal, their retirement money invested in the equity markets. And stop looking, stop looking. You know, the problem everybody has today is that they all have these damn iPhones and they call me up, they go, oh my God, the market's down 300. I go, yeah, it's half of 1%. I mean, shut up, you know, calm down. And so, you know, we teach people these lessons to be calmer. Now, money that's invested that's not protected by retirement accounts, that's post-tax money, it depends on what your needs are. You have a nine year old. Your kid's going to go to college in eight years. Do we have a college plan for him?

You own a house. Do you want to have your house paid off? Do you want to spend time taking a vacation? These are all of the things that we find out when we sit with you. Now, most people, 99% of the people that come in to see me don't have any idea what it means to plan. They're just making money and they're saving money, but they're not planning to how to deal with their money. So we pull out of you. When you leave an hour with me, having a conversation with me about your money, I know everything about you. I know what your goals are.

I know what your ambitions are, what your potential to make money is. I know what you're doing with your money now. I know how to amend what you're doing with your money now. And these are things that we do because I've had 30 years in my chair. When I first started in the business, I didn't know what I know now, but now I know pretty much everything. And I don't say that in a braggy way, but I've seen every kind of market. I saw 1987, I saw 2004, I saw 2008. I've seen this last week. I mean, you know, there's all, it happens all the time. So now I know how to tell people to just go like this and turn their head away. Just for context, is this an okay question to ask?

What is the book of business that you manage? What is that amount? Many billions of dollars. Many billions. Is that rare or is that common? I live in rarefied air. There are only 20 people out of 800,000 that are managing that kind of money, maybe 30 people. Was there one or two watershed experiences that pushed you in the direction that created the

cascade? I would answer that question by saying there are a couple of personality traits that would have led to the watershed experience. I'm relentless. I am absolutely relentless. If I want to have that. Did you want money? Is that what you're sorting out? No, I wanted to be successful in my business. The money just sort of came along. How do you define success? I never felt compelled to have money. It's nice to have money. I mean, I like nice sheets for sure. I really like nice sheets. It's a really important thing in my mean, I like nice sheets for sure. I really like nice sheets. It's a really important thing in my life. But I never felt like, oh my God, I have to have money. I wanted to be successful. And then in my business, you measure success by money, right? Yeah.

But I wanted to be successful as a human being, as a friend, as a mother, as a wife. How do you define it? Gets back to the same thing always for me, which is trust. So success is living in relationships of trust? Yeah. Okay. So what's the hardest? So with the success that you've had, personal, financial, relationship-based, what's the hardest part? What's the darkest side of having professional success? I can see that the road is ending. What does that mean?

I can see that I'm getting, I'm more than two-thirds of the way through my career, and I feel saddened by it because it makes me feel like I really know so much. I know so much. I have so much information and intellect in my brain about what's gone on in the industry for the last 30 years. And I would like to have an opportunity to impart it longer and to help people for a longer period of time and to guide people. Because when you're a client of mine, you will find that you get such good care from me and my people. I can't say that about everybody in my business.

And it makes me sad because when I'm finished, it'll be the end of that era. When you say it, I feel it. Is it alive in your body as you say it? Oh, yeah. And where do you feel it? I feel it in my heart. I feel it in my heart. I feel it in my heart. It creates a certain amount of sadness for me because people who get, it's the same thing in your business. The more years you have doing what you do, the better you become at it. It's the same thing in my business. It's the same thing

as a surgeon. There are not that many industries where having time on the job is great. When you're young and you're an actor, you're having a great career, right? And you just move along and life is great. But being a lawyer, being a doctor, being an advisor, these are industries that when you have time on the job, those are great things, not negative things. I know so much more now than I did when I started in the business. I know so many ways to avoid mistakes. And when you're entrusted with managing somebody's money, it really matters that you're good at what you do. Yeah. Yeah. It really does.

And so, you know, but you, we get to be of a certain age when you go, you know what? I don't want to do this anymore. I get up at three o'clock in the morning. I get up every single day at three o'clock in the morning. Think about that life. And I've lived that life for 30 years. Why three? Because I start my day at three o'clock. I read till about 4.30. I see what happened in the overnight markets. At 4.30, I get up, I get showered, I get dressed, I leave my house, I go to work, and I hit the ground running. And that, I just happen to live in California, which is what happens. If I lived in New York,

I got up at six, nobody would think twice about it. But I live in California. The other thing is, is that when I was raising my children, it was very hard on me because I wasn't home in the morning when they got up to go to school. I had tremendous heart, just awful heartache about this. Yeah, I have a similar, we're different gender, obviously, but I have a similar thing about how much time I'm spending away from family. It's hard. This is the hardest part of, I think, being professional. It's hard. I think all of us, not all of us, so many people that are working, this is part of the equation.

Now, work and travel is a different thing. Work and time zones is a different thing. So, can you teach me? Well, be kind to yourself. You know, you can feel bad about it, but don't wrap yourself up in guilt over it because there's really nothing you can do about it. You know, you're trying to make a living and take care of your family. So your ultimate goal is to take care of your family and also to have a career that's interesting to you. I didn't learn to be kind to myself about this for many, many years. And so I got up at three, I left my house, but I was home when my kids got home and I picked them up at school and I took them to soccer or baseball, but my industry lends itself to that, right? Cause I do this in California and I would cook them dinner and we would supervise homework. And

then I would go off on my merry way. And then I would go to bed and I'd read before I went to bed and catch up on, you know, what I missed. But I have a very good disposition and I have a tremendous amount of energy. So those things lend themselves to that. So the same thing is true of you. I mean, you have, you appear to have a very good disposition, and you appear to have a lot of energy. I don't know you that well, but you— It's all smoke and mirrors. I don't believe you. I don't think that's true.

I think you do have those things. But don't be hard on yourself about it, because there's really nothing you can do about it. But when you are there, be present. Yeah, for sure. You know, when my children and I have dinner, we see each other multiple times during the week. We're not sitting on our phones texting. We're not talking. We're sitting and having conversation. You know, we're sitting at the dinner table enjoying each other. You know, we have a no phone zone. And so that's it. It's a no phone zone. We're having dinner. We're having conversation. We're talking to each other. I wish all parents would have a no phone zone. And I'm thinking about like, we've got a dining room area that we often eat in. It's not formal. And, but so like, that's where we'll dump some bags and whatever. And it's an easy place for phones to lay. And I'm thinking that that could be a really cool. Yeah. Like on that tape on that table. Yeah.

That's really good. No phone. See you later. Bye byebye. Okay. So, God, this is so good that you have, you hold so much. I want, I've got two questions for you that I want to make sure I get to. One is about something that happened, let's call it four minutes ago when you were feeling the sadness about the, uh, the next phase in your, in your professional career. Why did you feel it in your throat? I did. Did you feel it in your throat? I did. Did you feel it behind your eyes? Yeah. Okay.

How come you stopped it? And that's not a critical question, because I know what that feels like as well. Like, why did you stop it? Was there an edit that was taking place in you? Or what happened that you stopped it? Well, it's a deeply personal, you know, point of view. It's also, I have a tremendous amount of responsibility. And I have all these people that work for me.

I support 45 people. And so when I do say it's time for me to go, I have to leave behind me an infrastructure that will carry on without me. And it's hard. It's hard. These people have watched me brick by brick by brick by brick build this business. And I didn't do it on my own. I did it with their help. And they rely on me and they count on me. And I feel sadness about the fact that it will come to an end in less time than the road behind me is. I mean, I don't know when the road will end, but it's going to be shorter than the road behind. How would you answer this? It all comes down to?

I'm not really sure how to answer that question. You know, for me, when I'm not here anymore, I would like people to say, she lived a good life. You know, it was a good life. It was filled with things of fabulousness. It was filled with children, grandchildren, clients that respect and trusted me. I would like to feel that people say she lived a good life. So the pause speaks volumes. The tone of your voice is even louder about the tonality. And the way that you're feeling when you say it is like, okay, some people say those

exact same words, but it's not believable. So when you resonate in that way, where does that come from? The value of living a good life. Is that born out of pain? Because remember I said, I don't want to tell you the answers to the insight, is that people that are best of the best of the best often have a neurotic early experience in their life and they're using extreme performance to sort it out. And you fit that bill, right? Well, yeah. Yeah. You've sorted things out. Yeah, I cleaned all that up.

I really did clean that up. I want you to know I really cleaned that. My dad and I are very close and we cleaned that up. I really did clean that up. I want you to know, I really cleaned that. My dad and I are very close. I believe you clean that up. Yeah, I believe you. But, um, I'm not sure if this answers your question,

but the things that matter to me, I want people to know that I respected them and heard them. I want to know, I want them to know that I did the best I could and that there was never anything ever that was not done with the best of intentions. You know, I really want people to know how much effort we put into being as good as we are at what we do. And I want my children to know that, and my husband for sure, who I adore, I did the best I could being your mother. The best.

That's rad. That's it. I want to stop here, but there's so much more. So thank you for being so honest that you can feel it yourself. And this is why I want to have these conversations with brilliant people that are authentic is because I get to feel and I'm reminded of aliveness. And it's that fine tuning calibration that if I'm not around it, I lose track of it as well. And so thank you.

Thank you. The other, but there's more. My philosophy is. You're asking me what my philosophy is? Yeah, my philosophy is. That's a very powerful question. Well, when I think in terms of what a philosophy is, it's how you want to have people think that you're thinking about things. So if I use that as my premise, I really think that if people were less judgmental and less opinionated about things and more open to hearing other people's points of view, that everything would be so much better in every area.

Just know that it's not just you. I don't know if you ever saw the picture of the old hag and the young woman, that little black and white circle. Have you ever seen that? Oh, classic psychology. So I used to send that out to my clients all the time. It all depends on how you look at it. I really believe that. And I think if I were to think about my, what is my philosophy, it really does depend on how you look at it. And it, you're not always right. You know, it's okay not to be right.

You can say that somebody can tell you, my son, David gently reminds me that I'm not always right on occasion. And he's right. Like I say, I get that. But in your earlier conversation that we had, I have a very different point of view on religion than many people do, which is that I really believe that religion is the root of a lot of evil. And I think if people would just let everybody be, and you can believe whatever you want, and I'm going to believe whatever I want, but don't kill me because I don't share your point of view.

If we could sort of get that out into the world, we would be in a more peaceful place. I mean, just let everybody just get along. So that insight comes from you knowing how to let yourself be and not critique and judge yourself. And that is, in essence, the path of mindfulness and awareness. So I get why you're successful. So thank you for being so clear. That's a very nice compliment.

Yeah. You've been evidently clear. Is that even how you say it? Like, you've been very clear. So, okay, last question is about mastery. I've had people talk to me about mindfulness. And I never really thought about it before. And then I started listening to you and listening to your interviews and listening to you speak about it. And I really believe that with patience, perseverance, and leaving as much ego outside the door as you possibly can, that you can have mastery and you can really rise and be good at something, but you have to be truthful

in order to have mastery. And I think the other thing is, and it speaks to mindfulness, you're only responsible for yourself. You're not responsible for other people. You can suggest things to them, but they have to be mindful in order to really understand that. So good. Yeah. Okay. And I'll back that as you're wrestling with it is that the difficult, honest conversations with oneself based on feedback internal from the environment or other people is hard. It's hard to be really accurate about the difficult parts of feedback that are not easy and pleasant. And that internal honesty pays dividends. And it's hard. I think so.

It's really, really hard. Okay. I think you're right. I do. I think you're absolutely right. No, I'm bouncing off your thoughts. So seriously, Rebecca, thank you for your time. And I get how valuable it is for lots of reasons. And you're firing up a podcast. I am. So can you talk about it? Sure. Yeah, please. Where can people follow along?

The answer to your earlier question as to who I do business with will in large part be answered by some of the people that have been nice enough to let me interview them. But what I've found in my life is that I've been so blessed with trust that a lot of people who I know have really interesting stories like you, and they don't walk around telling them. And I really wanted to know what they were. And so I got it in my mind and I told my girlfriend, Kim, I said, Oh, I've always wanted to be in, you know, do interviews. And she helped me with, along with another woman named Leanne, to sort of create an environment where we could get people to tell us their stories.

And much like you, it's a safe place. And so when I asked them to let me interview them, they've all said yes. And we've had really fantastic conversations. And some of the people that I've interviewed have had really interesting journeys. And some of them have had, I interviewed a guy, an amazing man named Jonathan Koch, and he was the owner of a company called Asylum Entertainment. And due to a set of health circumstances, he ended up having, he was a quadruple amputee. And he talked about his fight to survive and his fight to go forward and where he is today. And it was such a deeply, it was a four hour interview. And we had the, we sort of split it into before and after. And the reason I'm using him as an example is that the fact that he trusted me enough to tell me

what it was like in the darkest moments and what it's like for him today was so powerful for me. I think about him almost every day and what he's had to go through. And when we talk about hard life and he still looks at life with joy, he's my example. He's like my North Star. And so that's what I've had as an experience doing my podcast. And it's been overwhelmingly cool. I can't wait to listen. It's so much fun. Yeah, I can't wait to listen. And the title is? Say It Forward.

And where can we find it? SayItForwardPodcast.com. There you go. Thank you for being part of this conversation. And those of you who would like to learn more, make sure you head over and check out the podcast that Rebecca's fired up. And also, engage in the conversations at Michael Gervais on Twitter, at Finding Master on Instagram, punch over to our website, findingmaster.net forward slash tribe and be part of our community. And so sincerely, I want to thank you for paying attention to the conversations that

we're building. And if you're fortunate enough to be around people like Rebecca, you'll definitely appreciate what that's like as I have. And the same in return is why only Rebecca? Why not be that person that you experienced in this conversation to be more kind to yourself, to be more gentle, to be more accepting and to literally become the best version of yourself by having the honest conversations with yourself and with loved ones and to build the community where people are able to trust you and you can trust them. So make it happen. Beautiful.

Thank you again, Rebecca. Thank you. All right. Thank you so much for diving into another episode of Finding Mastery with us. Our team loves creating this podcast and sharing these conversations with you. We really appreciate you being part of this community. And if you're enjoying the show, the easiest no-cost way to support is to hit the subscribe or follow button wherever you're listening. Also, if you haven't already, please consider dropping us a review on Apple or Spotify. We are incredibly grateful for the support and feedback. If you're looking for even more insights, we have a newsletter we send out every Wednesday. Punch over to findingmastery.com slash newsletter to sign up.

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