Finding Mastery with Dr. Michael Gervais - Refusing to Settle - Personally and Professionally | Lauryn and Michael Bosstick

Episode Date: December 9, 2020

This week’s conversation is unique – it’s with Lauryn Evarts Bosstick and Michael Bosstick, our first husband and wife duo on Finding Mastery and it definitely doesn’t disappoint! Lauryn and Michael host a top podcast called The Skinny Confidential: HIM & HERMichael is also the CEO and Co-Founder of the Dear Media Podcast Network, the first and leading podcast network focused on female voices, audiences, and narratives.Before they had the podcast, Lauryn simply had a passion for beauty, wellness and no-censor advice.It all started as a small blog and today their podcast, The Skinny Confidential: HIM & HER, has over 75 million downloads.I’ve had the pleasure of being a guest on their podcast twice – you can check out my latest episode here.So this time, we decided to turn the mic’s on them and in my opinion the timing couldn’t be more perfect.Lauryn just had a baby, Michael is running a rapidly growing business and they’re stuck at home just like the rest of us.We talk about how to maintain a healthy relationship with a significant other – especially during times like this and how to turn your passion into something that can actually be a revenue generator._________________Subscribe to our Youtube Channel for more powerful conversations at the intersection of high performance, leadership, and meaning: https://www.youtube.com/c/FindingMasteryGet exclusive discounts and support our amazing sponsors! Go to: https://findingmastery.com/sponsors/Subscribe to the Finding Mastery newsletter for weekly high performance insights: https://www.findingmastery.com/newsletter Download Dr. Mike's Morning Mindset Routine! https://www.findingmastery.com/morningmindsetFollow us on Instagram, LinkedIn, and X.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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goals. And even if it was a little goal, it doesn't have to be a big goal. One day could be, you know, host a giveaway for, for my five followers, whatever it is, make, keep those promises that you make yourself and keep, keep doing it day after day after day. That's what's going to build your confidence muscle. I think a lot of people are looking for outside validation for confidence. It really does come from within. Okay, welcome back, or welcome to the Finding Mastery podcast. I'm Michael Gervais, and by trade and training, I'm a sport and performance psychologist. So what does that mean? That means these conversations tend to revolve around the psychology of becoming great.

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David, D-A-V-I-D, protein, P-R-O-T-E-I-N.com slash finding mastery. So this week's conversation is unique. It's with Lauren Everett's Bostic and Michael Bostic. It's our first husband and wife duo on Finding Mastery, and it definitely does not disappoint. The reason I'm excited about the timeliness of this is because many of us who are in relationships, we're working from home, we're living at work. I mean, it's all confusing. And we dive into that in this conversation. So Lauren and Michael, they host a top podcast called The Skinny Confidential, Him and Her. Michael is also the CEO and co-founder of the Dear Media Podcast Network. It's the first and leading podcast network that's focused on female voices, audiences, and narratives.

Before they had a podcast, Lauren had a passion for beauty, wellness, and no censored advice. And it all started as a small blog. And today their podcast, The Skinny Confidential Him and Her, has over 75 million downloads. So they figured this thing out quite well. I've had the pleasure of being a guest on their podcast twice, and I'll link those episodes in the show notes if you'd like to check them out. So this time we decided to turn the mics on them. And in my opinion, again, the timing is eloquent that Lauren just had a baby. Michael is running a rapidly growing business and they're both working from home. So we get into the realness of what it means to work at home, be in a marriage, early parenting, all that good stuff that is really complicated in

and of itself, let alone combined together with the uncertainty that many of us are facing in our professional lives. So we talk about how to maintain and develop healthy relationships with your significant other. And the second part is how to turn your passion into something that can actually be a revenue generator. And with that, let's jump right into this week's conversation with Lauren and Michael. Lauren and Michael, how are you guys? Good. How are you? It's always good when we get to see you. Yeah, there you go. Ditto.

I feel like that's a little bit of a, I don't know, it's a little bit of a loaded question right now because there's some empathy that needs to go with, like, I'm doing well. But I also get that so many people are not. And so, like, if we double click under there, and you like, really, how are you doing? I mean, quarantines definitely has its pros and its cons. There have been a lot of pros. But there also have been a lot of cons. I think some of the cons are you're on top of your significant other, I'm sure everyone can relate to that. You have to learn how to work. So if one person needs to

take a call, you have to be respectful and vice versa. And then I think just being in the house more than usual makes people extremely antsy. So those have been some of the interesting trials, lots of fights, lots of fights, but we're starting to adjust. Yeah. And we had our first child this year. So being new parents, navigating it in a quarantine and a global pandemic has definitely been interesting. But the upside of that, like Lauren said, is I've personally got to spend way more time with the baby than I would have if this didn't happen because she was born in January and I went straight back to work and then right back home right when the pandemic hit. You guys have a way about yourselves. This is why I wanted to have this conversation with you. January and I went straight back to work and then right back home right when the pandemic hit.

You guys have a way about yourselves. This is why I wanted to have this conversation with you. You've got a, let's call it a modern business where you're able to be nimble and flexible. It's tech infused. And so we'll get to like exactly what that is in a second, but it's, it is something that is increasingly common now that people are working from home, obviously, but working together, okay, and you've had to make some great pivots. So underneath this conversation for me is about resiliency. It's about modern business. It's about adjusting and it's about relationships. Okay, so that being said, let's wind back the clock a little bit. When did you guys meet? How did that happen? How long have you been married? Give me a little context of how you got started. Because the

foundation, each time that I have a conversation with you guys, it seems really strong. It seems honest. It seems clear. It seems practical. And so let's wind it back just a little bit. How'd you guys get connected? Yeah, we definitely have a strong foundation. I would say that both of us feel like we didn't settle. And we can get into that. I think that that was one of our things. Like we really like each other and we really like to be married and we're really good friends and we like each other's presence. We met when we were 12 years old, which is so wild. We have not been together that whole time. Um, we immediately liked each other when we were 12 to like 16 years old, broke up, dated a bunch of different people, and then ended up getting back together at the end of

college. So, um, so the foundation was definitely built off the fact that we've known each other for so long and we have so much history. Um, and we did not go into business together at all when we got back together. Michael was very much focused on his company Jetbed, which he can tell you a little bit about. And I was focused on what I was doing, which was I was bartending. I was teaching pure bar and Pilates and I was going to school full time and I was so unstimulated and so bored. And that's when the idea of the skinny confidential came about. So we were just dating at this time. Um, we ended up getting engaged. I launched the skinny confidential while I was doing this side hustle. He was still doing jet bed. And then eventually we were drunk in Cabo after six years of me blogging. And he said, let's do a podcast. And I said, let's do it. This

is like four years ago. I've had this skinny confidential for about 11 years, just to give context of that. And so six years into blogging, we launched the podcast and we just really became practitioners of the medium. And we can get in like later if you want into tips and tricks about audio and, and, and podcasting, but we just became immersed in it. We started interviewing every single week. We put out quality content, made sure it was valuable to the audience and it grew and grew. And then Michael saw white space and decided to launch his own network. And I'll let him tell you a little bit more about that, but we actually don't work together on a day-to-day basis. We work together when we podcast, a lot of people think that we're dealing with each other all day. That's really not the case.

Although I do go to him for a lot of business advice. Yeah. And to like, go back a little bit, because I know like some of the questions about our foundation, um, you know, Lauren just, she saw me when she was 12 years old and just chased me for so long. I finally gave him, I'm just kidding. That's not what happened. I'm kidding. No, I mean, like we, you know, there was something when we met so young and, you know, we did the, this, you know, kind of like childish dating thing till middle school. And then we separated and went different ways, but always kind of had this back and forth. And I was always pursuing her.

But what I like to tell people, and this is not for everybody, is that for our relationship specifically, we really took our time. You know, like I courted Lauren for a long time and then we dated for a long time. You know, like we really developed the friendship first and the relationship. And, you know, even when we got engaged and I probably, you know, I was young when we got engaged, maybe took me a little longer than what she was comfortable with, but, you know, we stayed engaged for four years before we got married. We really like learned what it was like to live with each other and see what each other

liked and, and, you know, see how we supported each other. Um, and then we got married and waited a little while before we had kids. So it's, you know, we, we've, while we've always been pursuing each other, we never rushed the stages of life. And I think that's enabled us to kind of build a strong foundation. And like Lauren said, the Skinny Confidentials existed for 11 years, but we really didn't start working together on it until five years in. So we both kind of established our boundaries and our lanes before we came together on the podcast.

And I think that's what's enabled us to kind of work together effectively. What did you, go back to 12? What was the first thing that you recognized about each other? Now there's going to be a little bit of a memory lag and a little bit of revision, revisionist history here. But when you first saw each other, met each other, what was that first thing? Do you remember? Well, I thought she was the substitute teacher because she came in. I had huge tits. I was really tall. I was the same. Like I looked the same. Like nothing was different about me. So everyone was very little. I was a 12 year old boy, right? I was a boy and she showed up, she came to the school in sixth grade, you know, and like after sixth grade, you leave and go to middle school. So she only showed

up to my elementary school that I had been at for forever the last year and so when she showed up it was this fully developed woman and i was boy my first thought was i have no chance with her um and then lo and behold i did but you know and i think like one thing i always recognized about lauren early on is like i saw so much drive and ambition in her even early on and And then she used to do, and she'll get mad at me for saying this on the show, but she used to do this kind of like ditzy blonde act in high school and middle school. And I remember getting mad at her and being like, why do you do that? Because like, you're so smart and you're so driven and like, you don't need to do that. Like you don't need to kind of put on the facade. And, you know, I just saw something in her that

kind of like lit me up and saw like, Hey, this is somebody that's going somewhere. Not just in business, but just in life. Like it just like, I noticed the first thing I noticed was how he was four to Michael. Were you short? I mean, I was a 12 year old boy. I told you, I'd like, you know, like I hadn't even hit puberty yet. He wasn't tall. Yeah. He was like four one. So I'm five 10 now. So it's not like I'm doing, I'm not winning any awards in the height department. Classic. Okay. Um, I met my wife at 16. Oh, you did? Yeah. So we've got some commonalities there for sure. Um, I want to get into some of the pros and cons of meeting young. Uh, there's some great stuff. Like we know each other through and through and there's some, there's some cons. There's some,

you know, some, some challenges let's call it. Okay. Before we get there though, Lauren, did you, were you mature early? You said like physically you're mature. Did you also have emotional maturity as well? Yes. I've, I think that, um, uh, I've always been pretty mature. I, I don't know if that's, I don't know if I can say that about myself, but I do feel like I've always, just because of my childhood growing up, I feel like I've always been more mature than my age. Okay. Quick pass. What was it like growing up for you? So growing up for me was really, I had a great childhood when I was very little. And when I was five, my sister came. So I had a sister, grew up. My parents got divorced like so many people's do when I was like 11. How did that shape you now?

It was very chaotic the way they divorced and it was a lot of chaos. So I actually feel like I thrive in chaos, which is like it. Tony Robbins always says sometimes things that get you to where you are stop working. And like, that's, that's one of those things that I feel like it's got me to where I am career wise, but now it's not serving me anymore. So I have to pivot and adjust that. Um, and then my, uh, my mom committed suicide when I was 18 years old and my sister just developed this horrible, horrific six year, um, drug addiction to heroin. And it was just so chaotic as you know, dealing with someone on heroin, it's, it's no logic out the door. So I was dealing with a lot of things at home, but my parents both did a very good job of raising me in a very nonjudgmental, um,

environment. And they also never told me I couldn't do something. They, they always would say, Oh, you want that? Go figure it out. You want that car? Go get it. You want this? Go get it. So I was very crafty at finding angles. And I also feel like there was never any judgment around my career or my college. I now talk to a lot of friends and like their parents put so much pressure on them to be someone that they aren't. And my parents very much were like, whatever it is you do, do it the best. And you can do anything you want. And so I look back, and I think that that was a really nice foundation, and I hope I can teach my daughter that. OK.

So I mean, you can't just kind of drop in that mom committed suicide and kind of run over that a little bit, you know, nature of this conversation. But you know, OK, go ahead. Sorry. No, we can talk, totally talk about it. I really want to bring more awareness to suicide. And I think at the time that it happened, it was so taboo and it was scary for people to talk about. This is in like 2000, I want to say 2005. So people were so uncomfortable to talk about. This wasn't now, now it's completely different. People

are more open, but in 2005, no one wanted to talk to me about that. So I just had to figure my, my, I say the theme of my childhood was figuring it out, like figure it out. So after that happened, it even was more like, go figure it out. And then how has that, how has that shaped you in your relationship and your life and your business, all three, you know, lanes. And obviously you, you hit on it a little bit about your, with your daughter, but how has that shaped in different facets of your life? I would say, um, Michael says this about me.

I don't think anything's a big deal, which I think is such a pro, but it's also such a con because there's some things that are a big deal and I'm very stoic and like almost blase. Well, no, it's not, it's not that I don't think that she says things are a big deal, but what I always try to point out to people about my wife or other people that have experienced extreme, you know, you know, hardships or, you know, tragedies like she's faced is that what other people may think are big deals in perspective compared to like, you know, what someone like her has gone through, you know, losing a mother at such a young age in such a violent way. Like, you know, you lose a job and you lose a little bit of income.

Like that doesn't seem like such a big deal to someone like Lauren in comparison to the other things she's experienced. Or even, you know, this year with the pandemic, you know, people have wanted Lauren to maybe be a little bit more upset about what's going on. But like once she's, you know, if you actually understand my wife and what she's been through and look at her life, like, okay, we're quarantined, we're at home, like maybe income's not as strong, like these things, but like she's experienced one of the most painful, horrific things a human can experience. And so in comparison, it's not going to rile her as much as it would maybe rile other people. And I think that's, you know, we all have different experience

at different levels, but it's, you know, it's just all different perspectives. And then in the healing process, where are you in that healing process? Let's call it 20 years later. I think I need to do more work. I think what I did is I like threw myself into my business and I've put so much of my energy into my business and throwing myself in. And it's actually, it's masculine energy. It's sometimes I feel like I relate more with men than women because I'm so focused on, on my business and work and, and not saying that women aren't, I'm just saying that I noticed masculine traits sometimes. And I, I don't really know why that is. I also think that becoming a mother to me

was a very big deal because I didn't think I was maternal and maybe that's something I just labeled myself because of what happened to me. Um, and so having a baby and actually having her here has been a really gnarly experience. And I'm sure you hear this as a therapist all the time that, that when you've lost a parent and then you have a child, it brings up all these different kinds of things. Uh, I had the best pregnancy, the best birth, but horrific postpartum anxiety. Um, so bad. It's just lifted. Um, so yeah, I think that that all that all sort of plays into everything I've been through. Finding Mastery is brought to you by Momentus. When it comes to high performance, whether you're leading a team, raising a family, pushing physical limits, or simply trying to be

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and use the code FindingMastery20 at FelixGray.com for 20% off. A couple like really powerful notes is you had one of the heaviest experiences known to humans, and then that has shaped perspective. So small things don't really spill over on your teacup. It's like fine. You just kind of deal with things. Okay. The underlying anxiety during the pandemic, during international, but more national conversation about social injustice and all of the things that come with motherhood and preparing for motherhood and actually being a mother, a first

time mom. And you've got underlying anxiety around that. So how does that, how'd you, how'd you deal with it? It's been a lot. And I'm so used to talking to Michael about all these things and a man cannot understand postpartum anxiety. And that was really frustrating because I'm so used to bouncing ideas off of him in business and in life. And he just couldn't understand. He wanted me to just get over it. And it was something I couldn't just get over. Oh my God, Michael, that did not work out well, did it? No, no, no. It did not work out. And there's like, on our show, we, we had all sorts of, you know, therapists and even a post postpartum therapist come in and like,

you know, I mean, I took some licks on the, on the show publicly. And it's not that I wanted her to get over it. It's just, I'm so used to seeing my wife so strong in every aspect, you know, and I've known her for so long. And this was one area where like, I felt like I couldn't help her and I didn't understand it. And like, we're both navigating the time and pandemic, not to make excuses, but it was just like, whoa, where did this come from?

And how did it happen? And I think both of us just didn't understand what postpartum was. And so we've done a lot of work talking about on the show. And like, I personally had to do a lot of work trying to understand it.

And as a man, you're never really going to understand or feel the feelings, but just learning a little bit more about what women go through is, has helped me now. And like, hopefully if it ever happens again, second time around, I'll be a little better. The things that helped me get over it too. If anyone's struggling with postpartum anxiety, Michael's going to be mad that I say this, but I microdosed mushrooms three times and went into it with the fact, why am I having this

anxiety? Why am I having this anxiety? And that helped probably 80%. And then the rest of the 20% that helped was getting my hormones checked it, checked and balanced and finding out I had low thyroid. So I had no testosterone, no progesterone, low thyroid, got that balanced out. Um, and this is really weird, but another thing that helped was a body scrubs, like going and actually like to a Korean spa and getting my body scrubbed was so good for my nervous system.

So those were three things that I did that really helped. Well, I also think like, and maybe this is like one thing too, is, you know, I always say like time is your ally. And like, I think having time, like, you know, the baby's almost nine months now and there's, there's parts of, of, you know, after the baby was born for like two or three months where it was a huge fog for like, she can't even recall basic things that, you know, we were in Palm Springs for a month and she barely remembers even being there. And so like, sometimes like I try to remind her, like, you know, the more time that goes by and as you start to navigate and learn your new norm, like, you know, things do get better. And I, I think that applies to, to many things in life. And there's

like a whole different element to this. And maybe you can tell us more to this, but I feel like when you go through postpartum anxiety or depression, you feel like you're not being a good mom because you're not all there. So then that's another layer of stress is the guilt. And I don't think that's talked about enough. Yeah. I mean, it compounds shame and guilt and all of that is intertwined with anxiety and depression, especially in performative environments. But it is not even comparable when it is actually this duty that you're supposed to have from a social pressure. And then also like a narrative, like, oh, wait,

I need to be the provider, but I can't even provide for myself. You know, what is wrong with me? And so that's one of the reasons it is kind of talked about a bit like postpartum depression, anxiety, but not really, um, the how to of it is not talked about much, right? Because it's complicated. It's a, I mean, I can't speak to it like you can, I can speak to it from a very almost surgical standpoint, like a very clinical standpoint of like, okay, if this, then that, and, you know, but, um, there's, there's no clear steps for this. Like you got to sort it out and your community is really important. There is a biological, there's a physical, there's a psychological, there's a framework from spiritual.

Maybe there's some medicine involved, whether it's mushrooms or other. And so, yeah, it sounds like you're sorting it out. I have. I figured it out. I figured it out so far. So I feel so much better. The hormone therapy, like getting that balanced out was so, so, so helpful. Um, and then also no one talks about this either gaining this much weight. Like it sucks as a woman, especially do, I mean, I'm, I'm in front of the camera all the time. So to gain so much weight, there's just so much that happens to your body.

You know, I don't think that that is talked about from male or female perspective, like what happens when our bodies change. And certainly, this is not actually well talked about at all. And it feels insensitive to me to say it on the heels of what you just said, but I don't want it to be that way, is that men in sport actually struggle, some men in sport actually do struggle with body image. And so there's another thing that's layered in there that men don't get to talk about, like that piece of it. And there's a bit of new research that men tend to overestimate their women's value of masculinity in quotes, and women tend to overestimate men's need for body image, like ideal body image. It's an interesting bit of research that we overestimate what we think

the other gender or other, in your case, maybe partner is looking for. But yeah, I mean, this is where some of that deep work is like, okay, well, what can I control? What matters most to me? If I've got X number of units of time throughout the day and X number of choices, how am I going to line those things up? 100%. And also just being preventative about the anxiety. Like Tim Ferriss always says on his podcast that the way he deals with anxiety is he has all these tactics in his toolbox that help prevent it. So it's not even going to come. So, you know, for me doing breath work, 10 minutes in the morning, like life-changing, reading a page of stoicism, taking a walk, getting outside, working out, just doing all those things, even if I feel like I don't have to do them, the days that I feel like I don't need to do those things are the days I need them most. Yeah. In sport, I'll reference sport just one more time, and I promise I won't do it again. But in sport, we front load our training. So we get ahead, if there's a competition on Tuesday and in the NFL, it's every Sunday. But if that,

whenever there's a competition, it's not like people just show up. I mean, they're ridiculously prepared. So we call it front-loading, front-loading physical training, technical training, mental training. And so if you don't front-load it, you're caught, you're caught trying to figure it out on the spot. And you know, you can figure some of it out but it's exhausting it's like the cognitive load of trying to figure it out all of it out um when you could offload it you know in the week prior the two weeks or the two months prior it's so much more efficient it just means though that you have to do things without a sharp stick in your back you know like you've got to manufacture why are you going to do this work? My wife this

morning says, we're talking to our 12 year old and she says, you know, I don't like to get up every morning and necessarily go to the gym. Our gym is in our garage right now, but I don't like to go do that. But I take a moment and I go back up to purpose. I want to be healthy. I want to be healthy for you. I want to feel good in my body. You know, so sometimes we've got to go back to purpose and that actually helps amplify the reason we do the front-loading, the heavy lifting work before the other thing, whatever the other thing is. And for us as non-performers, if you will, the other thing is being able to be in relationships. That's it. One with ourselves and two with others.

And then maybe with Mother Nature, if we can do it right. We got all three of those things working together. So, okay. That being said, Michael, what are some of the unique challenges that you've got working at home with your wife in a parallel business? Yeah. I mean, I think for me, you know, it's been challenging because I closed a series A around this year for my business, which was great, but it was supposed

to be a huge investment year and scale year for us, which it has been, which is fortunate. But, you know, my team is almost tripled in size and I haven't met two thirds of them this year, which is, you know, I always talk to people and like, let's, like, let's say as a manager, you know, working from home has its perks. If you're doing your own individual tasks, you can maybe stay more focused. You're not as distracted, you know, like you have your own area, but when you're managing people and those people need your attention constantly, and the only way to get to them is either on a phone call or a zoom. Like it is a bit of a challenge on top of that. Obviously I work with my wife, which is like, we're at home in the place that's supposed to not be about work.

And now all of a sudden it's turned into a place that is about work because we're all working here. Yeah, it's not sexy. And there's a child here and there's a nanny helping us because we both work all day and there's people in and out and we're in this condo. So it's trying to, for me, interface with 30 plus people every single day out of one, out of an isolated place. Like, you know, I'm in my bunker right now, you can see. And so it's, it's challenging. You have to be really organized. You have to get much better at communication. You have to figure a way to, to, to motivate yourself to, you know, before my, my morning routines, it got up, went out, worked out, got to, you know, got in the car, drove to the office, had a whole thing. Now it's

like, I get up and I walk out of my bedroom down the hall to the office. And it's like, how do you get out of your pajamas and like put your best face forward? And I think everybody's going through those challenges. But for, you know, for somebody that's managing so many people remotely, it's a unique challenge because I'm constantly on these Zooms, which I know is probably not the healthiest thing to just be staring at a computer screen all day. Yeah. I mean, okay. To that point, I think we're all, if we're fortunate, we are having the same challenge. I mean, there's another whole layer of challenge, which is like, I don't know how to go make money for rent. I don't know where

to go to, how to turn to pay for basic supplies. Like that's a whole different challenge that we are blessed that we've got this one. What are you doing to be able to get connected to people? Here's one thing that I think like might be maybe a sort, like, I don't want to say inspirational, but maybe a story that might help some people start to think about something. You know, you highlighted earlier that, you know, Lauren and I have kind have digital tech businesses that

have been able to pivot in this. But one thing I always like to remind people that this business we're talking about, Dear Media, that's this podcast network, it stemmed from a side hustle. And what I always tell people is a lot of people know Lorne and I now, like Lorne through the Skinny Confidential, but maybe publicly they might know me from this podcast. And I always try to remind people that the podcast is our side hustle. Yes, it's grown and it's a large channel now, but it started, I had a company, she had a company, we started it together out of our living room,

at home in 2015, not in an office, no resources. Amazon shipped us some things for very cost effectively. And we just started talking into a mic and little by little sharing with people. And that little tiny side hustle, you know, turned into a large show that then stemmed a 50 plus show network that just closed a series. And I don't say that to brag. I say that to, for people that are sitting at home being like, what can I do to make money? What, what are things that you may have your day-to-day job? You may be looking for work, but you have the internet, you have digital

channels. You can, you know, one day you can start, you canto-day job. You may be looking for work, but you have the internet. You have digital channels. You can, you know, one day you can start, you can write blog posts. You can start creating social content. You can start a podcast. You can start a newsletter. There's so many things that are available to us that if we would be going through this global pandemic 30 years ago, people would be in so much more trouble. Like there are ways now to start bringing in income if you're willing to kind of maybe

go outside the comfort box and start trying something new. And so I don't know if that answered your question, but. No, it's good. It gives a hint at how you think about being an entrepreneur, which is like, hey, listen, have a stable gig. And if that stable gig is not feeding your mind or whatever, like explore a side hustle. And then the second is if you don't have a stable gig right now, there are ways to kind of turn a profit, but you've got to put in some elbow grease.

What if I say this to you? Okay. It's a crowded market. I don't know what to say. Why would somebody want to listen to me? Meaning a podcast and podcasts don't really make money. Most of them don't. And so if I'm going to spend some time and money and energy on something that is in a crowded market, I don't know why I don't have a community. I've got 200 people on social media. Really? Is this what I should be doing? But maybe you're not speaking to those folks. I mean, I once had 200 people on social media and I once had thought I had nothing to say. That's, that's part of putting yourself out there. I, I think that if you're not a person that wants to be on video,

don't do video, do audio. If you don't feel like you have something to say, but you want to show off your beautiful closet, do pictures on Instagram. If you are more of a writer, go start a blog. There's like Michael said, there's so many things that you can do to get creative. And if you have a unique perspective on anything, people want to hear it. I always use this example. Like if you like sea monkeys and you're passionate about sea monkeys, there is a community out there in the world that you can connect with on sea monkeys. So find something that's unique about yourself and talk about it and talk about it whatever medium you think fits you the best. Finding Mastery is brought to you by Cozy Earth. Over the years, I've learned that recovery doesn't

just happen when we sleep. It starts with how we transition and wind down. And that's why I've built intentional routines into the way that I close my day. And Cozy Earth has become a new part of that. Their bedding, it's incredibly soft, like next level soft. And what surprised me the most is how much it actually helps regulate temperature. I tend to run warm at night and these sheets have helped me sleep cooler and more consistently, which has made a meaningful difference in how I show up the next day for myself, my family, and our team here at Finding Mastery. It's become part of my nightly routine. Throw on their lounge pants or pajamas, crawl into bed under their sheets, and my nervous system starts to settle. They also offer a 100-night sleep trial and a 10-year warranty on all of their bedding, which tells me, tells you, that they believe in the long-term value of

what they're creating. If you're ready to upgrade your rest and turn your bed into a better recovery zone, use the code FINDINGMASTERY for 40% off at CozyEarth.com. That's a great discount for our community. Again, the code is FINDINGMASTERY for 40% off at CozyEarth.com. Finding Mastery is brought to you by Caldera Lab. I believe that the way we do small things in life is how we do all things. And for me, that includes how I take care of my body. I've been using Caldera Lab for years now. And what keeps me coming back, it's really simple. Their products are simple.

And they reflect the kind of intentional living that I want to build into every part of my day, and they make my morning routine really easy. They've got some great new products I think you'll be interested in, a shampoo, conditioner, and a hair serum. With Caldera Lab, it's not about adding more. It's about choosing better.

And when your day demands clarity and energy and presence, the way you prepare for it matters. If you're looking for high-quality personal care products that elevate your routine without complicating it, I'd love for you to check them out. Head to calderalab.com slash findingmastery and use the code findingmasterY at checkout for 20% off your first order. That's Caldera Lab, C-A-L-D-E-R-L-A-B.com slash FINDINGMASTERY. Lauren, speak right to the, let's speak to a woman who says, God, I do have something. I know I do, but you know what? I just don't know how to go about actually knowing clarity of my voice and producing something or putting something out there that is going to be meaningful. And so this is about

self-esteem a bit. Yeah. I'm very solution oriented with stuff like this. Like if you, if you are a mom and you're out there and you think you have an idea, but you're not quite sure what, and you need clarity, I would say to go into massive action. And so I always say that what I did is I went to Rite Aid. I bought a huge fucking white poster board with highlighters and glitter and all the different pens. And I started writing down on this poster board ideas. And every day I would walk by it and I did this for six weeks and I would just write down my ideas. And I started drawing out the website I wanted and the logo and all the stuff.

I would go to Home Depot and get paint swabs in the fabric store and get textiles. And I would just start reading like what my ideas were on this poster board. So that's what I would tell you to do. Get a huge poster board. And that way, when you look at it at the end of the six weeks, you will have more clarity than you did six weeks ago. I would also say that you don't want to think too hard about how you can't do it. I would just put it out there. Michael always says launch fast and adjust. So just launch something, put your, it's put yourself out there and do something. Um, if you have like a sewing business, put it on Etsy. There's so many ways now with digital

to get creative. I just feel like people that are saying it's too saturated are using that as an excuse. Well, I think like Lauren said, like one of the themes of our show from the beginning, and also to also share something about Lauren, like the Skinny Confidential was a side hustle. She was teaching pure bar and Pilates and bartending at night and going home at 2am and then writing on the blog. Like it was making no, it made no money for two years. The podcast we do made no money for two years. And so I do think now the medium's heated up a little bit of people can probably monetize a little faster than it took us. But I say something on the show all the time, which is launch fast and adjust. And I think

what I'm trying to tell people is, you know, if you spend enough time giving yourself reasons about why something won't work, I guarantee you'll find a thousand reasons about why you shouldn't do something. And what I try to not do in my personal life is give myself any of those reasons or entertain them. I just say like, get out there instead of thinking step A to Z, step A to B, like what's the very first thing you could do? We were in combo drinking margaritas. Let's do a podcast. First thing I could do is I went on Amazon and got the equipment that we could afford and showed up at my house. I'm like, cool. Now I got to figure out how do I use this equipment? Figure that out. Once I did it, I'm like, Hey, let's sit down and

actually record. We did that. I'm like, how do I edit it? I know this is like micro steps, but you know, if you go back and listen to episode one of our show, it is so terrible. We are so bad. We interrupting, like, we don't know what we're doing. The audio quality is horrendous. Um, like if you ever listen, you probably like, we don't know what we're doing. The audio quality is horrendous. Like if you ever listen, you probably like, I would never listen to this show again. I leave it up on purpose or we leave it up on purpose because I want people to understand like where something can start and where something can go. And this wasn't backed by some huge business or business model or flushed out idea. It was just literally two people in a living room taking a couple steps that we could at the time and day after day, you know, improving as much as we

could and listening to, when I say that the adjust part is like listening to what the audience, the small audience we had was saying, Hey guys, stop interrupting. Okay. Hey guys, improve your equipment. Okay. Hey guys, you should really distribute here. Okay. Hey, maybe could you put a little video clip? Okay. And just little by little, it improved, improved, improved. And then it launched a 50 plus show network on the backs of it. And I just think like people will always find a reason to talk themselves out of something. And the way to combat that is to just like Lauren said, start taking massive action at whatever you can take action. You mentioned earlier self-confidence too. And I think confidence comes from within.

And I know that's so cliche, but confidence comes from keeping the promises that you make to yourself. So if you say that you're going to work out every single day at 6 a.m. and you miss three days that week, that's not building your confidence. So for me, I would set these goals and then create systems to get to the goals. And I would meet the goals. And even if it was a little goal, it doesn't have to be a big goal. One day could be, you know, host a giveaway for, for my five followers, whatever it is, make, keep those promises that you make yourself and keep, keep doing it day after day after day. That's, what's going to build your confidence muscle. I think a lot of people are looking for outside validation for confidence. It really does come from within. You're speaking it. You're 100% accurate. And then if I add one layer to it is when you set a little mini goal, right? You make a promise and you set a little goal and then you get a little bit closer to that goal, even if you haven't executed against it. But you celebrate like a wild person, one step closer to the goal.

And each step you celebrate. That makes a big deal for brains to be able to want to be closer to that warmth, to that heat of achievement, if you will. And our brains love it and they crave it. For example, concretely, if you want to work out and you put your shoes out at the front of your door the night before, because you want to work out in the morning and you put your shoes out and you say, that's right, I'm one step closer. This is what I do. I'm kind of a badass now. And all you've done is put your shoes out. Like you actually haven't really done the thing, but you've done the thing before the thing. And if you can give yourself that permission to be a little bit more wild, it's so much more fun. Like we can uncork a little bit. Yeah. This is

what I love about you guys. You're uncorked, but you're, and you're, you're a bit quirky. Lauren, I think you're quirkier than Michael, but you know, you guys are like, you've got this honesty about yourself. That's really refreshing. And I want to honor our time. Yeah. And I want to honor our time, but I want to ask you, what are the important parts to a relationship? And each of you are going to have, if I had to be a reductionist and just say three, just three important parts, and they might be totally different. I hope they are. would say my number one is don't settle. Stop settling because society tells you that you have to have a baby at this age and a husband at this age or a boyfriend or a girlfriend at this age. Stop. I think that you can create your own blueprint. Like whoever said that you have to do this by a certain age, just do what works for you. Everyone's different. I would rather personally be single for the rest of my life than be in a relationship

where I'm settling. So that's my number one. I mean, I think like one thing is like Lauren and I, you know, we have extreme trust for each other. And I know that that's like very, like everyone's like, oh yeah, of course trust. But like, it really is like, I know without a doubt that she has my back. I have hers. You know, we don't step out on each other.

We, we know that like if we're ever not with each other, like we're always protecting and honoring each other and making sure that we're sharing each other in the light like i one thing that drives me nuts that you know i know we we all have friends in relationships that do this we're like the couple's not together and one of the partners is just doing nothing but talking bad about the partner like i hope you know like i think that's so detrimental to a relationship it's like if you're not if you don't have the confidence to go and say that to your partner but you're going to say it to everybody else, like it undermines the relationship. And I, and I think like that, that's number one. I think number two for us is like, we really spend a lot of time talking about where we want to go

with our future. That's so funny. That's the one I was going to say next committed to the same vision. Yeah. Like, you know, we it's, you know, no two people are alike, but if you're in a relationship and you're building a life together, it's important to discuss like where you ultimately see that life. And I see this happen so many times when people get into business as a couple, and we, if we could talk about working together, like maybe one person's idea of getting into business together is they want to build this small business. That's going to support their life so that they can travel together and like make a little bit of extra income and, you know, and, and relax a little bit. And maybe another person's idea is they want to build an empire and go to the office

every single day and, you know, acquire 50 other businesses. And like, maybe that conversation starts like, Hey, let's get into business together. But it's, it doesn't talk about like, what does that business actually want to turn into? And where do you want that to take you? And so I think people don't get aligned on where they actually want to go in life. And so we spend a lot of time talking to each other about like, okay, we have these opportunities. We have these businesses. Are we both on the same page about where they're taking us? I think like two people in a relationship sometimes are pushing separate boulders up the hill. And I feel like with us, we're pushing the same boulder up together. I think that's important to be committed to the same goal.

It doesn't start out like, Hey, we just find that boulder, like both pushing it. Like we have to work a lot to make boulder together and then decide, okay, this is the one we're pushing up. Like, and I think that's the part that sometimes people miss. And the last one is you have to have a sense of humor. Like I could never date someone that, I mean, I poke fun at Michael all day long. I could never date someone that was sensitive Sally. Like you gotta have fun.

You gotta laugh. You gotta, if you take the laughing and the funny parts and the witty parts out, like that's to me very, very important in a relationship. And it doesn't hurt that my wife's a 10 and that I'm very attracted to her. So like, that's a, that's got to have that. Do I look like a 10 right now?

I think I'm about a six right now. I'm not going to lie. I can be vain and I gotta, I gotta, I gotta like looking at her. And it also helps that my husband has a big, big personality. Oh, you guys are too funny. Okay. So how important is sexual energy for you guys after being together for so long? To me, it's so important. Sex is very, very important to me. Yeah. I mean, like you and it's, it's, it's super important. And it's

something that, again, like, you know, one of the benefits of doing the show is like, we get to talk about this all the time with different people and like talking about like how to keep it spicy and what to do and like how to continue to be attracted to your partner. And like, it's another thing you got to work at. I also think, you know, everything in relationship is work. And sometimes people think it's just going to be natural and come easy. And like, we have to spend a lot of time working on yours. Like by no means is our relationship perfect. And we definitely have ups and downs and blow out fights. Like, you know, we sometimes, you know, we'll go to bed angry at each other. And like, it's, it's, I don't want to, I don't want to present this image of

like perfection because it's not, it's, it's a lot of constant work. I think with sex, like on a micro level, you have to be constantly doing new things, like bring toys into the bedroom. We, we have a favorite coconut oil lube that we love, like watching porn, like being very open-minded to a nonjudgmental. Like, I think it needs to be a very open-minded space. But I will tell you that it's not sexy to be quarantined after having a baby. Like there's definitely peaks and valleys of sex. It's not always the same and consistent. But you do, like Michael said, you have to work at it.

And when one person wants to have sex and another person doesn't, how do you navigate that? My stepmom, one time I called her when I was 21 years old, I'll never forget this. And I was so tired. I just bartended till two in the morning and Michael wanted to have sex. And I called her the next day and I'm like, I'm so fucking tired. I worked eight hours. I taught all day. I just don't want to have sex. And I thought she was going to be like, Oh yeah, I get it. Like you should talk with them. And she goes, Lauren, you rally. And ever since she said that anytime my husband, my husband wants to do it on zoom right now, I will rally. I promise I will not put you through that. I rally. I will never, ever turn my husband down for sex. And it's not about woman or male or anything. I just think that if my partner wants it, like I'm here, I'm game.

Look at that. Look at you too. Where do we go from there? Amen to my stepmom. We just say it. Listen, I would say your dad's been happily married for a very long time. Yeah. My dad is very happy.

He's always smiling. Classic. Okay. So what I'm trying to get at is like, how do you deal with friction? And when things aren't quite lined up and it could be friction in the bedroom or in the boardroom, but you guys, your bedroom and your boardroom might be the same place and you know if you could in the honor of time if you could just give one mech one story slash to tell the mechanism of how you deal through um tough stuff whatever that might be you know what i do michael i can't wait for you to dissect this. I do nothing. Yeah. It's frustrating. He hates it when he pisses me off.

I do nothing and he can't stand it. Yeah. I can let him sit with, if he treats me in a way I don't like, if he is an asshole, whatever he's pissing me off, I do absolutely nothing. And I let him sit what he just said. And I let, I just sit and give you a hint into exactly what she did last night. But no, I mean, listen, here's, here's one thing that I do think quick that we can give is Lauren and I talk all the time about recovery. Um, and every couple is going to have fights, especially in quarantine. And I think that, you know, this pandemic, it's been a challenge for many people in relationships, anybody in a relationship. If you haven't been challenged by this, I don't know what's going on. You must be an alien. But Lauren and I talk about recovery and sitting down and being like, hey, we just had a blowout fight, looking at each other,

like, is this the thing we really want to die on a hill? Like, is this the thing we really want to hold on to? Like, can we let this go? Is there an underlying thing? And getting back to the fact that like, we're committed to each other, we love each other, we want to compare it together, all these things, and letting things go and figuring out like, okay, how do we fix this and improve? We both are not, we're both stubborn people, but we're not stubborn enough to let little things destroy the bond that we've built. So good. I mean, I really enjoy the freshness of you guys. You know, like there's just a, yeah, but it's grounded.

It's not like whimsically all over the shop. Like there's a grounded sense to both you guys. So I just want to say thank you. I was glad to have this conversation to talk about, you know, what you're doing, but how you're doing it. And then where can folks find you both on the Skinny Confidential as well as the Dear Media Network? They can find me at the Skinny Confidential on Instagram and definitely listen to Michael's episode.

We have two episodes with him and it's on the podcast, the Skinny Confidential, him and her on iTunes. And people love it when you come on. Yeah. And I think, you know, the podcast is probably the best place to find us. And then for Dear Media, you know, maybe if you're sick of listening to us, there's 40 other shows, all sorts of different genres and topics

with a bunch of great hosts. And so just check out Dear Media. All right. I appreciate you guys. I hope you've freaking figure it all out and let me know. And I want to encourage people to go drive and check out what you're building.

I think it's special. And I want to say thank you. Yeah. Thank you so much. I love that your wife and you met when you were 16. I didn't know that. That's so cool. Oh yeah. You didn't tell me what the pros and cons were of long relationships though. Well, the pros are, you know, every part of the person, the cons are that, you know, every part, but, and you haven't maybe necessarily explored, you know, all of the other flavors of life. And so, you know, the pros and cons are really, it's an

intertwinement that takes place. Okay. So I'm trying to be clever, but here's the analogy that best suits is that if two trees grow too close, too early to each other, they can smother each other's potential. And so we really, what we want is two strong rooted trees that are healthy next to each other and the reaches of their potential are reaching up into the sky and touching at the ends of the branches. So that's kind of the challenge is separation meets independence meets togetherness. That's the complicated nature of long enduring relationships that are infused at a young age, but I'll take it all day long. Yeah, I'll take it too. It depends on the day, but today I'll take it.

You guys are awesome. I tried as hard as I could to taste all the flavors while I had that period. He tasted enough flavors. He tasted all fucking 31 Baskin-Robbins flavors. He's good. He's flavored out. I figured one of you were going to go there. I wasn't sure though.

Thank you for having us. Anytime you want to come on the podcast, the next one that we do, I definitely think we should do the whole narcissistic personality disorder because so many people messaged me about that. Narcissistic personality disorder. I think that, yeah, let's do it. I'm with you. Okay. Thank you. Okay, guys. All right. Thank you, guys. Bye now.

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