Finding Mastery with Dr. Michael Gervais - Resilience and Managing Pressure | Olympic Gymnast, Jordyn Wieber

Episode Date: June 23, 2021

This week’s conversation is with Jordyn Wieber, a member of the USA Gymnastics Hall of Fame and the “Fierce Five” United States gymnastics squad that won team gold at the 2012 Olympics.Jordyn was a two-time U.S. all-around champion (2011 and 2012) and the 2011 World all-around champion. Her illustrious Elite Career included three medals at the 2011 World Championships (all-around and team : gold, and a bronze on beam), and four U.S. senior national titles (all-around, bars and floor in 2011 and all-around in 2012). She officially retired from competitive gymnastics in 2015.In 2019, Jordyn was introduced as the head coach of the Arkansas Women’s Gymnastics program making her the youngest NCAA head-coach in history. Jordan has been a vocal advocate for safe sport, has won several awards in the past year, including the Arthur Ashe Courage Award at the ESPYs, the Rising Star Award by the Los Angeles Business Journal, and the Giant Steps A Hero Among Us Award.In this conversation we cover so much - the immense pressure she was under to succeed, the trauma she and her teammates experienced as members of USA gymnastics, and why she’s taken a stand to change the sport for the better._________________Subscribe to our Youtube Channel for more powerful conversations at the intersection of high performance, leadership, and meaning: https://www.youtube.com/c/FindingMasteryGet exclusive discounts and support our amazing sponsors! Go to: https://findingmastery.com/sponsors/Subscribe to the Finding Mastery newsletter for weekly high performance insights: https://www.findingmastery.com/newsletter Download Dr. Mike's Morning Mindset Routine! https://www.findingmastery.com/morningmindsetFollow us on Instagram, LinkedIn, and X.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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I'm Michael Gervais and by trade and training, I'm a sports and performance psychologist. I'm fortunate enough to work behind the scenes with some of the top performers across the planet. And the whole idea behind these conversations is to learn from extraordinary people, to pull back the curtain, to explore how they've committed to mastering both their craft and their minds. And our minds are our greatest asset for sure. And if you want to learn more about how you can train your mind, this is just a quick little reminder here to check out the online psychological training course that I created with the head coach of the Seattle Seahawks, Pete Carroll, at findingmastery.net forward slash course. Finding Mastery is brought to you

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Jordan Weber. She's a member of the USA Gymnastics Hall of Fame and the Fierce Five United States Gymnastics Squad that won team gold at the 2012 Olympics. Jordan was a two-time U.S. all-around champion, both in 2011 and 2012. And then in 2011, she was also the world all-around champion. Her illustrious elite career included three medals at the 2011 World Championships, and that was all around in team. She won gold and then a bronze on beam and four U.S. senior national titles, all around bars and then floor in 2011 and then all around in 2012. She officially retired from competitive gymnastics in 2015. And then in 2019, Jordan was introduced as the head coach of the Arkansas Women's Gymnastic Program, making her the youngest NCAA head coach in history. How cool is that?

Jordan has been a vocal advocate for safe sport and has won several awards in the past year, including the Arthur Ashe Courage Award at the ESPYs, the Rising Star Award by the Los Angeles Business Journal, and the Giant Steps, a Hero Among Us Award. In this conversation, we cover a lot. The immense pressure that she was under to succeed. Talk about the trauma she and her teammates experienced as members of USA Gymnastics. And also why she's taken a stand to change the sport for better. So just a note here, if you're not familiar with Jordan's story, we'll be talking about childhood sexual assault.

So in an effort to both protect our children from abusive adults, as well as to aid in the healing for people who have experienced abuse in their childhood, I am just humbled by Jordan. I'm humbled by other survivors and the courage that they have to live their life in an authentic way. If you know somebody that might be in trouble, a child that might be in trouble, here's a toll-free line, a crisis line, if you will, for childhood sexual abuse. It's 866-4-LIGHT. So that's 866-367-5444 let's stop this and then if you have experienced any type of abuse and you're struggling with it sexual or otherwise as a child here's a phone number for you 1-800-950-NAMI

N-A-M-I so again that's 1-800-950-626. Jordan is incredible for so many reasons and she's making a massive difference by sharing her experience. And with that, let's jump right into our conversation with Jordan Weber. Jordan, how are you? I'm doing well. Thanks for having me. Yeah, cool. Okay. So where on the planet are you? I'm in Fayetteville, Arkansas right now working. I coach on campus and love it here. Never thought I'd end up in the state of Arkansas, but here I am. And it's awesome. Where did you grow up? I grew up in Michigan, actually in a really small town right outside of Lansing and was the only Olympian for my hometown and just really, really small. Everybody knew who you were when you walked around town, um, in Michigan.

Okay. All right. You have a remarkable story and the way that you've continually pivoted, you know, in your 26 years, um, and how you've moved forward in each stage. I mean, you're a legendary star at the Fierce Five heading into the London Games where you guys won gold. You're an advocate and a survivor of sexual abuse. You have worked with one of the legends in the field, Valerie Condosfield, and been a mentor there for a bit. And then you're also, you know, one of the youngest and only Olympic champions to also coach at the NCAA level. So, like, I really want to learn from you.

So in advance, I just want to say thank you for your time and going on this, you know, learning adventure for hopefully both of us here. So maybe can we start on how you learned gymnastics, like where and why and all that good stuff just to set the frame? Yeah, of course. So I grew up in a really athletic family. So my mom runs marathons. She was a track athlete in college. My dad was a football player, not anything like college or anything, but he was athletic. My older sister does marathons. My brother was a star quarterback of the football

team in high school. So obviously sports were a big deal. But when I was younger, I think I was about two or three. I was still a toddler and my parents sort of noticed that I had like these little biceps and quad muscles just naturally, like without doing anything, um, at a very, very young age, obviously. So they looked at me and they thought, okay, she kind of already looks like a gymnast. Let's put her in a class, see if she likes it. Um, so I went to gymnastics class and, uh, you know, it's kind of classic. You hear every gymnast say this. Like I was just hooked from the very first time I stepped into a gym with the foam pit and the trampoline and the bouncing and all these really fun, exciting things.

I just loved it from the get go. And it wasn't long before I was realizing I was pretty good at it. And, you know, I wasn't really necessarily great at the skills at first, but I was really strong and I could do any conditioning strength challenge that my coaches gave me. So that kind of, um, powered me through those, those early years of gymnastics. I was just super strong, really athletic. Um, and it wasn't until a little bit later when I got older that I started picking up a little bit better technique, um, and more skills, but I definitely kind of sped up through those, those, um, initial levels of gymnastics pretty fast, just because I loved it. And the gym was like my fun zone. But that's kind of how it all started

for me in gymnastics. How did your parents and how did your coaches support this spark and this love that you had for gymnastics at a young age? Well, most of the time I was, I was self-motivated. I was self-driven. Um, and I really appreciated the role my parents played in, in supporting me, but also reminding me, you know, when I had really hard days, you know, they would always remind me like, you don't, you don't have to do this. Like you, you don't have to be a gymnast. You don't have to be at the elite level. It's, it really is your choice. And I know not every parent is like that. Um, I wish every parent was like that. I felt really blessed to have parents that just let me drive the bus a little bit. Um, and there were some days where, you know, my mom had to tell me, you don't have to do this, but let's sleep on it. You always have a better

day the next day. Um, And so I was really lucky to have parents like that. I had coaches that were really tough and pushed me from a really young age. And so a lot of times I would leave practice, whether it was the best practice ever or the worst practice in the world. I would go home and my mom always asked me how was practice today. And every time, no matter how good or bad I said, good, that was it. And I think looking back, that was my way of keeping my home life and my, my gym life separate. And when I was home, I was just home and it wasn't about gymnastics. It wasn't about the training, but, um, I left that at the gym. And so, um, I really appreciated that my mom let me do that.

And she just said, okay, it was good. It was good. And I appreciate that separation. It was really, really healthy for me because, you know, training at the level that I was training at in gymnastics was very intense. It was all consuming. It was so draining at times that when I was home, I just wanted to be with my family. I wanted to laugh and I'm really appreciative to have parents that supported me in that way. Yeah. So you had a safe place and there's that beginnings of the compartmentalization that's oftentimes required. And obviously you got really good at that, you know, dealing with the trauma that you're going through as a survival mechanism, that was part of it. So you were starting understanding that it sounds like at an early age. Yeah. And even to this day, I recognize I'm freakishly good at compartmentalizing and putting things in a little box and setting it to the side and pretending it's not there.

And I think that's something you develop, especially as an elite gymnast, when you have to figure out how to compete at such a high level on a four inch piece of wood that is a balance beam or the bars or something like that, you, you have to figure out how to block out distractions and just be in the moment and be present no matter what's going on, whether you've got an injury, whether you've got, you know, you know, pressure from coaches or whatever it is, it could be a number of things, but, um, that compartmentalization is a skill I've gotten really, really good at. It's something that's kind of stuck with me after gymnastics. And now I'm a little bit more aware of it and can kind of break free from it a little bit, but it's definitely a

skill that has helped me, like you said, survive through a lot of things and just be more of a strong, resilient human when I need to be. So you would say it's a strength. Compartmentalization is a strength of part of your framework as opposed to, ah, it actually can kind of get in the way because I'm not really dealing. This is the downside of it. I'm not really dealing with things. There's a lack of integration. And then the upside is like, no, no, no. I'm not letting that thing, whatever it might be, bleed into other parts of my life. Cause right now I need to be able to execute right now. I need to have this conversation right now. I need to, whatever I need to study. And so you would say, no, it's really helped me as opposed to the other double-edged sword downside of it.

I believe it's really helped me, but I also, now that I'm a coach and I, um, I help, you know, student athletes figure out life and get through certain things. I would say there's a time and a place for compartmentalizing, you know, for example, um, we have obviously standards of how our athletes show up to practice. Right. And one of the rules I have in my gym is that they're not allowed to, not allowed to cry during practice. And, but I always follow that up my gym is that they're not allowed to cry during practice. And but I always follow that up with you can cry. Crying is OK.

Having emotion and feeling stuff is totally OK. But if you get to the point where you're so emotional that you need to let it out, then remove yourself from the team environment. Go in the locker room, go in the bathroom, let it out, do what you need to do and come back when you're ready. And so that's one of the, one of the standards I have in the gym. And I always explain it's, you're going to feel stuff and this is emotional and training is difficult. You're not always going to have good days and that's okay. But sometimes you have to think about who you're around, who you're impacting and what the, what the energy in the gym is like. And you know, sometimes when there's,

when there's crying or there's not a certain standard of an attitude in the gym, it can kind of suck the energy out of the room. And so, you know, that's one example of when I think compartmentalizing is positive when it comes to the team culture and the environment in the gym. But more on a personal level, I think compartmentalizing can be good at times can be bad at other times. Um, as long as at some point you unpack that box that you compartmentalized in and deal with it and process through things. That's something that I've learned how to do post gymnastics career that I never did

while I was training. And there wasn't really time for it or space for it or help for it. Um, and I've had to really figure out how to do that post gymnastics. And so I would say both, it can be healthy and it can be unhealthy. As long as at some point you unpack that box, it's healthy. I would imagine we'll get to this in a little bit, but I would imagine the healthy part is that you were able to survive because you're like, I'm not dealing with that. When you were trying to sort out how to make sense of your early childhood experiences, there was a couple of things that took place.

One is you found yourself right in tier zero, right at the heart of the Carolis and their coaching style and their culture that they were creating. And how old were you when you went into that environment yes i first went to the curly ranch when i was um 11 i started going that's when i first made the u.s national team and you know started going about once a month um pretty much through the olympics when I was 17. So yeah, from a young age, I was kind of immersed in that environment.

Okay. Once a month you would go, meaning for one week a month or one month at a time? Five days out of every month. Five days. And so would you homeschool during those five days? No, I actually remained in public school all throughout my high school, junior high years. And I just had a really great high school that worked with me and was flexible.

So when I would leave, I would just communicate with teachers and they would set me up with my work and I'd catch up when I get back. And that was one thing that was really important to me to still have that balance of feeling like a normal kid and going to a real school and having that, like I said before, that separation between gymnastics and life. Cool. Okay. And then when you're in that environment, I've read a quote that you shared that was

remarkable, which was they brought over the culture of winning at all costs and it created a lot of champions at a horrible cost. What did, I can only imagine what it was like, but what did you experience? Well, I mean, the Corolli Ranch is like, it's in the middle of nowhere. It takes about, you fly into the Houston airport, it takes about an hour and a half to drive there. And for the last 30 minutes of the drive, you're, you're in the woods. Um, and so I'll never forget like the, the feeling in my stomach and the anxious feeling I would get when we'd get closer and I would start to see like the buildings and, um, sort of the markers that we were getting close. And it was just sort of like this sick, anxious feeling in my stomach

because of the associations that I had with what it was like when I went there. And we trained twice a day. The training was really intense. Marta Crowley had her eyes on everything that was going on. You're constantly competing for a spot for a spot for an opportunity to, um, stay at the top. Um, it's like all day for five days, you're figuring out how to be as perfect as you possibly can so that you can impress this Marta Corolli figure, um, so that you can fulfill your dream of going to the Olympics. Um, and you know, when I said that

quote, it's like USA gymnastics was the only system that we had to go through to get to our dream of going to the Olympics. And we all dreamed of it. Uh, so we didn't have really another option other than going to the ranch every month and figuring out a way to kind of survive through this intense training. And don't get me wrong. I think in order to get to that level, the training has to be intense. It has to be tough. You have to be perfectionistic and you've got to work really hard. Um, but you know, where we had to go, we stayed in these motel rooms that had water that smelled like rotten eggs and really uncomfortable beds. And just, it wasn't what you picture Olympic level athletes, um, where you'd picture them going and training and not to mention,

you know, limited medical care. And the only medical medical care we had was Dr. Larry Nassar, who was abusing young girls. And so it was just sort of this whole mess of, you know, this system that USA Gymnastics set up that was, you know, working for a long time. It was creating champions and gold medals, but it was, um, creating a lot of, I think trauma and, um, a lot of athletes that, you know, finished gymnastics and ended up with a lot of issues and a lot of mental health issues and injuries and things like that. So it was tough. And, um, at the time, you know, as a young gymnast, you kind of feel like a robot. It's like, I felt like that from a young age, like, this is what I do. And I, I want to make it so bad and I do love gymnastics and this is what I have to do to

get there. And so I liked working hard. It just, they were intense conditions. It was exhausting physically and mentally. And now that I'm older and I look back a lot more things stick out to me in terms of that was not okay. And that was not okay. And that was not okay. And that was not okay. And adults should have, uh, made sure that that didn't happen. And so,

um, I didn't realize it at the time when I was a kid, but I realized it now. God, it's sick. And where were the adults in the room? What happened? Well, it was just, you know, you would go to the ranch with your personal coach. And then when you'd get there, there would be a few, you know, USA Gymnastics staff members in charge. And I don't know, it just kind of seemed like they had, they were just doing things the way they had always done them. And, um, you know, people, I would say coaches and the doctor had access to young girls, um, and to athletes without other supervision, which I think was a big part of the issue. Um, and the adults that were there, you know, especially the personal coaches, um, they, they want to impress Marta and the national team staff just as much as we did,

you know, they were kind of, you know, wrapped up into the pressure of all that wanting to be impressive and earn a spot as you know, to prove themselves as coaches, too. So, you know, there are dynamics there. But I always explain it as there's this really, you know, kind of uneven, like power dynamic between coaches and gymnasts, because, and that's the culture that, you know, I think that really needs to change in gymnastics because you've got these athletes that are young, um, and they're very obedient and they want to do whatever you say. And then, but they have no voice.

So if something was going wrong and they didn't think it was right, we never felt like we could speak up, um, or say anything because that wasn't the culture. That wasn't how, how the environment was set up for us. So that's, you know, that's something that needs to change. Finding mastery is brought to you by momentous. When it comes to high performance, whether you're leading a team, raising a family, pushing physical limits or simply trying to be better today

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I would say for some people, you know, it's hard for me to say yes or no for myself because Um, because at the time I, I don't, I don't think I really understood. Um, but I think, you know, separate from the sexual abuse, certain athletes were often verbally abused, often just, um, ignored and kind of, you know, treated as invisible if they weren't performing up to the level or doing as well as, as they were supposed to, um, which, you know, you think about at the time, I didn't feel like an adult. I didn't feel like a kid. I felt like an adult doing an adult job there. And now I look back and, you know, thinking about athletes from 11 to 16, and that's how they are being treated and what that does to a young person and how that affects their self-esteem and their confidence long-term. Um, I would say absolutely there were, there were

other types of abuse going on there. Um, whether or not I received it is, you know, it's a little bit blurry for me. And I probably at the end of the day would say no, just, and I, and I say that because, um, I was always doing well and so when you were doing well you were paid attention to you were praised and you were um kind of put on this pedestal but you know when other athletes weren't doing well they got the opposite treatment and i would say that that is that was definitely going on so attention and regard were completely favorable to the output that you were creating. Yes. Yeah.

So you mattered because of what you could do, not because you inherently were valuable. Yes, absolutely. That's correct. Yeah. How did you undo that or work through that? um you know it's it's still I think it still sticks with me because um I don't know if you know the Enneagram but um I'm obsessed with the Enneagram and I'm an Enneagram three the achiever and so my personality type is that I am very goal oriented and I constantly trying to achieve achieve achieve and accomplish, accomplish,

accomplish. Um, and so having that personality in that type of environment was something that I just kind of kept pushing and trudging through, but definitely it's, it's something I've had to reframe in my brain of, um, I, I am a worthy person, not because of what I accomplished, but because of who I am. That was something I've had to really reframe in my own head. And I started doing that when I, when I retired from gymnastics and I was in college and no longer did gymnastics anymore. So, uh, that was a shift I had to make. I think it's, it's a difficult shift, uh, to make. And I still, I still sometimes struggle with it. Even now that I'm an adult with a job, I'm constantly feeling like I need to be achieving in order to be a worthy

person. I think that's, that's something Enneagram three is struggle with a lot. And that's something that gymnastics kind of perpetuated in me in terms of my personality. Yeah. And you're not alone. This is something that is pervasive for so many people. And it's obviously, you know, there's a certain amount of anxiousness and OCD and perfectionism and unhealthy traits, if you are is what i'm saying in that and there is a point in time hopefully for many of us that we realize that that mechanism is um it's not necessary that there is another way but that mechanism is like the fires the house is burning down it's on fire i gotta run and that'll get you out of the house. There are other reasons to get out of the house. And so how do you organize your life now in a more healthy way that you say, I matter because I breathe. I think I said that actually, but how do you organize when you go to work and you see one of the gals that you're coaching that isn't doing well, that you're not getting the right funding for something or something is going, um, not according to plan and people are looking at you, your level of success

coming into the program that you're coaching. So how, how, how do you materially deal with it? Yeah. So one of the biggest things for me in making that shift was, um, redefining like what success is to me because growing up in gymnastics and you know as I said before being praised for doing things well and winning and getting first place is like I had this very clear equation of winning equals success and if I didn't win my coaches were mad at me all the way down to when we go to the Crowley ranch, every time we would have to do this conditioning test. And, you know, there's 20 girls there. They all do the condition test. If I didn't win the conditioning test and get first place, I got in trouble. Um, and so you

can see how, like having that mindset, my entire childhood really like developed that clear equation of winning, being the best equal success and so um you know after I retired when I was at UCLA when you go to UCLA you learn a lot about John Wooden um and I remember walking into the Wooden Center where our practice facility was and there's you know his big pyramid of success and you learn about John Wooden's definition of success and he says that success is peace of mind and knowing that you did the best that you, I always, I always botch this, but success is peace of mind. And knowing that you did the best to become the best you're capable of becoming.

I think that's it. And, you know, even, even when I was at the Olympics and I failed to make it to the all around competition and I was the reigning world champion from the year before, it's like, I felt like such a failure, um, post Olympics. And, um, and so it took me like two years to really look back on my Olympic experience and not view it as a failure, even though I came home with a gold medal. And I realize now like how crazy and messed up that is. Um, but once I reframed what success was, and now I'm in my day-to-day life, if I wake up and I have every intention of being successful and doing the things that will allow me to succeed, even if I don't

get there, even if I don't reach my goals, if I know I did everything I possibly could, um, when I'm done at the end of the day, then I feel successful. Um, and I, and I try to teach that to my athletes now that I coach and, um, you know, sometimes you might set a goal and sometimes you might not reach a goal and that's okay. As long as you know that you did everything you possibly could to reach it, that success is that feeling that you have within yourself has nothing to do with awards or winning and it can, but, um, if that's your definition, but I had to really redefine success for myself. Um, and now I try to create an environment of that within our, our practice facility every single day.

Kids, you're coaching, you're lucky. So, uh fortunate, I should say, because you've gone through living hell, you know, for, and I don't want to be dramatic when I say it, but like, I, it's hard for me as a, a human that's never experienced what you've experienced to, to really map to it. But where I'm talking about sexual abuse and environments of ultimate disregard for the essence of the human and so um i try to understand it you know best i can but can you walk me through um like concretely like what is the hardest part for you what was the hardest part for you? Just like of my gymnastics career or? Yeah. I mean, it's like you've got two tails, you know, you've got gold medal, you've got one of the best on the planet at what you do. You just came short of the individuals, but you won a gold on team. And then, and that's all of

that is like the two tails within success. And then you got the other side, which is like the ultimate disrespect to your body and the ultimate disrespect to your essence, both from a sexual standpoint, a verbal standpoint from abuse, you know? So what comes to mind when you think about the hardest parts for you? Um, you know, because it's the most vivid to me still, I think, you know, between 2011 being all around world champion and then 2012 kind of going through what I went through at the Olympics and, um, most people not knowing that while I was at the Olympics and having a hard time, I had a broken shin. Um, I had a really bad stress fracture in my, in my shin. And, um, like to the point where I'd wake up in the morning and barely could walk until like my leg was warmed up enough to like,

just get through the day of training. Um, and you didn't, you didn't tell anyone. I mean, I told my coaches and I told, you know, doctor that was there. And, um, you know, at that point it was in, you know, in my heart, it was, I'm not going to stop because this is, I only get one shot at being at the Olympics. And so even if someone told me, Hey, you can't compete because of your leg, I would have said, okay, no, I'm competing. Um, but I think just dealing with that and how much pain I was in, in addition to just everything that was happening behind the scenes, um, in addition to all the pressure of, you know, what it, what it

means to be at the Olympics on the Olympic team competing for team USA in gymnastics. And then just personally feeling like I had to prove that I was still, you know, the best in the world from the year before. And, and then in between all of that hitting puberty and experiencing a lot of body changes as a gymnast, that whole year was just really, really tough. And I look back now. And maybe there's a couple things I would change. But I look back and I think, you know, I don't now and maybe there's a couple of things I would change, but I, I look back and I think, you know, I don't think, I think all of those, those tough parts made me who I am.

They made me extremely resilient. They made me really strong. Um, and so it's hard to go back and say I wouldn't change anything, but, um, I would say the hardest part was just sort of getting through that phase of that last year of competing. Um, and, and everything I was kind of managing and dealing with mentally and physically did it feel like your life was on the line or you know not to be dramatic but at a young age and sometimes for older adults like their identity is so ingrained to what they do that it feels like part of them is completely, it's a life and death situation. You know, if, if I perform poorly or if I don't get judgment from the others in a favorable way. But was, was it like that for you or was it the physical pain

that was the more difficult part of it? You know, it was a combination of all of it, but I've never like thought of it in that term, you know, life or death. And that really resonated. It does feel that way because, you know, for me, especially I decided I wanted to make be an Olympian when I was nine. And so all those years, it's like, that was the one pinnacle moment I was striving for and working towards. And I didn't, I didn't

even know what, what existed after the Olympics. Like you would have thought that was the, like the last thing I ever had to do in my whole life. Um, so it does kind of feel like that. It feels like, and then, and then post, I think a lot of athletes will say this, we'll say this a lot of Olympians, you know, post Olympics, you have this feeling of like, what do I do now? Like, who am I without my sport? And, you know, I literally trained eight hours a day, um, in gymnastics and I didn't even know how to fill my day. And, um, so I, I would say, yeah, it did sort of feel like that because everything kind of built up to that one moment. Um, and then for that one moment to not be everything I dreamed it would be was really, really tough mentally for me. Finding Mastery is brought to you by Cozy Earth.

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was going to define your legacy whatever that is you know shape the opportunities that you may or may not have for the rest of your life and it doesn't matter if you're a driver of a car or an engineer or a c-suite executive but then imagine if that drive across town, you know, or the speech that you're going to give in the board is going to follow you around for the rest of your life. And that thing that you do is your entire identity. That's what we're talking about, right? And so can you describe, now pick any event, but can you describe what it's like to be, maybe it's the edge of the mat, where you're starting your routine or walking onto the mat or standing behind the beam.

Can you describe that's a seminal moment at the Olympics. And I really want to understand your mind and how you were able to use your mind to manage that pressure. Yeah. I mean, you'll totally understand this as a sports psychologist, but it was, you know, anytime I competed, it was like, I was constantly kind of playing mind games with myself of convincing myself. It wasn't a competition that it was just practice. And it's just another routine. And it was like muscle memory. Um, and it was like that even at the Olympics and, you know, so, and then I, I kind of did the opposite in practice. So, you know, in practice, I found ways to really kind of build up that not, I never, I never used the word nervous. Um, I didn't even identify with having nerves or being nervous. I was always excited. And again,

that was another like mind game I played with myself of like convincing myself. I didn't get nervous. I just got it really excited. Um, so at practice I would figure out ways to simulate what it would feel like to compete or say um you know i have to make this one or i have to do two more um and kind of build up the pressure so that when i got to the competition i did i kind of reversed it and um you know especially on an event like bars or beam i just try to feel as normal as possible um and that's hard to do because you know when the pressure's on and there's cameras and there's a giant crowd and you've got Olympic rings everywhere, it's hard to kind of calm down the physical pieces of that and the heartbeat and the shakiness and those types of things. But I had this mental dialogue of, you know, it's just one more routine.

You've done a million in practice. It's just one more. Just do normal. And so that's, I literally just cycled through those, those words, um, over and over again. And so I didn't allow anything negative or anything, um, unusual to get in or any sense of doubt to get in. And, um, so that's kind of what I did when I competed, you know, all the way up to the Olympic games, um, except for floor floor. The only thing I said to myself before floor was have fun. Um, because floor, you just, you gotta get to like, let yourself go free. Um,

and so literally, you know, I, when I watched my Olympic routine back again, and I'm seeing my face before and I salute, like I knew at that moment I was saying, have fun, um, which is kind of cool. And so, yeah, it was just, I was really fascinated by, um, the power of the mind, like growing up in gymnastics and I would read books about it. And I even wanted to be a sports psychologist. I majored in psychology at UCLA and I was really fascinated by all of that. I loved the way I could apply it to what I did every day. And I wanted to help other athletes do that. Um, which, you know, kind of why I ended up in coaching, but, um, it's, you know, it's, it's really interesting to think back on how I was able to handle, you know, those large amounts of pressure. So let's take a moment. Do you want to take,

well, let's take this moment when you got to the Olympic village and you saw the rings and you saw, you know, this was in the London games and you felt that energy. What was that like for you? It was really surreal. I remember trying to imagine what the Olympic village would look like and then getting there. I'm like, okay,

this is cool. And I was so young. I was just kind of amazed by everything. Um, and I was just kind of taking it everything. Um, and I was just kind of taking it all in and also taking it one moment at a time because, you know, before a competition, it's like everything, everything we did was in preparation for those like big moments. So, um, we got there, we saw the Olympic village and then it was just kind of business time after that,

you know, everything else was really structured. It was no fun. It was just like everything revolves around the competition and being prepared for that. Um, so, you know, that's kind of how I managed it. Did you stay in the village or did you guys have an offsite training center? We stayed in the village. What was your room like? Uh, we had this like kind of townhome and it had three levels and the bottom level was Marta. Middle level was like our female coaches and the top level was where the athletes stayed. And

me and Allie Raisman were roommates. And then the other girls had other rooms. She was actually, she stayed at my house yesterday because she was doing a speaking engagement in town and we were joking that, um, we were always roommates for every trip and she, she was, she was so messy. Like I would always walk in the room and just get irritated that she was so messy. So like you'd walk in and see one side of the room was mine. It was all neat and clean. And the other side was alleys. It was just like a tornado went through it. Um, but it was, it kind of looked like a college dorm room. That's the way I explain it to people. It's just a basic room with a dresser and, you know, these old twin beds that just, it, it basically looks like a college, a college dorm room. Okay. So let's take us to

the night before your first event. And the night before the night before is actually really important, but let's just go to the night before. How'd you sleep? You know, I don't remember. I don't remember those little like nuances like that necessarily. Um, yeah. Oh, that's super.

Yeah. Super interesting. Okay. Waking up that morning. Do you remember what it was like when you woke up? I could pretend to know, but I don't know. Okay. How about, how about the, the, the van ride over to the, I don't remember. I, I usually, you know,

put headphones in and would listen to some pump up music on the, on the bus ride over there. And I think a lot of my mental game was just not making things a bigger deal than they had to be and not adding on additional pressure than there already was. So, you know, whereas I think people would expect I'd be on the bus kind of, you know, pumping myself up to say like, Oh, it's the Olympics. Like I got to get ready. Like for me, it was just like, I got to be normal. I got gotta be calm and just be excited. And that's kind of what worked for me. So there's two ways to approach the games, which is, um, it's the biggest show on earth. And so I gotta get up for it. And it sounds like that's not how you approach it. The other is like, it's another tournament.

The rules are the same. You know, the, the mat is the same. It's still four inches on the beam. Um, it's my skills and, uh, I'm just going to go do what I do. It sounds like you had that approach. Yeah, absolutely. I agree with that. And then you know, that little moment before pick any event, whichever one comes to mind, floor beam bars, that moment before you're about to get called up, can you, Can you walk through what that's like for you? Yeah. So when you go back and watch a video of like anytime I competed, I had these like motions

and sort of like not tics, but I had this way of kind of visualizing, but physically, um, I would kind of like mimic my skills and kind of feel it in my body. Um, and I did that over and over again until the judges were ready to salute me. So again, I, I just didn't want to leave any space for things that weren't normal to get in. Uh, so just kind of do that over and over again. And I did it every day in practice. And, um, you can ask Ms. Val can ask Miss Val she always laughs at me when she recruited me and she would come watch my practice she's like you did that over and over again on every single routine so I would do a beam routine I get off the floor and I would I would go through my whole thing like I would do all the motions and then I get up and do another routine and then I do that again and I would

always always do it and so in competition that's that's what I was doing before I was waiting for the judges to salute me, just feeling it in my body and kind of going through those motions that I did every day in practice. And what thoughts were you afraid might get in? Which ones were you trying to keep at bay with this occupation of being busy on the positive, on the productive side of things? I think just any type of self-doubt or questioning or worrying. I don't know. I guess any of those types of negative thoughts of just like, oh, goodness, oh, God, like, here we go. And just any self-d that one of the gals that was a vet on the team. And so she had already been to the games and she leans over to one of the

rookies and we work on a scale, like a activation scale. And we're trying to find a five, right? So five is that sweet spot. The porridge isn't too cold. It's not too hot. It's just right. And on the activation scale, it's like, I'm not too relaxed. I'm not too relaxed i'm not too uptight but my energy system my activation level is just right for me to think clearly to be on point the whole thing so we're looking for a four five six but let's call it a finding five and so um and we've done this work for a full quad so the vet leans over to the rookie um and the vet is um

you know she's got a great personality. And so she leans over and she says, so what number you got? And so, and because we would practice that all the time in practices and in games and whatever, trying to find your five, what number you got? And the rookie goes, I'm at like a hundred. Like I thought I was going to be put together. Like, and then I looked down and I saw the rings. And so, you know, as much training as we try to do, sometimes like things go sideways. And the good thing about having a vet there is, you know, Courtney Thompson's her name. And she talks about all the time and they just laughed like, yeah, you know, and they

just had a good exhale, good laugh. And then kind of nudged the rook and said, okay, get some of that breathing in. And so did you have to do any breathing or was it more occupying your mind with the just kind of like doing the movements and just like feeling it and kind of moving my body. If I stood still for too long, that's when I kind of would freeze up and go there. But I just sort of stayed loose and just tried to feel like practice as much as I possibly could. And are you aware of the crowd? Um, I like, I knew it was there and I like was aware of that. Um, but just didn't focus on it. You know, I, I think, I think, you know, the Olympics versus Olympic trials where we had just as many fans and just, you know, previous competitions I'd been at. And it was sort of the same, you know, as those, um, except for, you know, I was in

the back of my head somewhere. I knew it was, it was the Olympics instead of any other competition. So let's go to like, let's go back onto the floor and you're in the corner and it's your last pass. What was your last pass? Yeah. Double pike. Double pike.

Okay. And in your mind, you're like, that's what I do. Or is it like, that's what I get. You know, it's sometimes like, it's a stretch for me. Like, what is your relationship with the double pike? It's funny you ask that because. Wait, describe, describe it to folks who don't know what it is. Like there's a couple of things that you'll do before you are able to actually get into the double pike position, but explain that, that pass.

And then let's get to the funny part there. Yeah. Yeah. So you, you run a few steps, you do a round off a backhand spring and then you take off and you do two flips and like a pike position, which is where your, your body's closed, but your legs are straight. And then you land on your feet. Um, and it's funny cause I don't even think people know this, but I had really bad exercise induced asthma. And so before every floor routine that I did, I had to take a puff of my inhaler. And then immediately after the routine, like I would be like wheezing for air and I'd have to do another puff of my inhaler. And so typically that would set in, you know, a little bit before the last pass. And so, you know, if people had like a microphone on me before my double pike, I'd be like struggling to breathe actual air.

But nobody knew that. What are you saying to yourself as you're kind of sweeping your foot into the corner and you're kind of lining up that last pass? What are you saying to yourself there? Breathe, you know, breathe, you got it. You can do this like just simple. Um, at that point, yeah, at that point, my body kind of knew what to do because of muscle memory. And it was more just about being confident in like my, my strength and that my body could get me through it because, um, I was no longer sending oxygen to parts of my body. Um, yeah. And then, so when you take off and you stick the double, the double pack, uh, the, the

double back pike, what's that like? Like, yes. Like, I don't know. It was just, I don't know. Just like joy, I guess is, you know, especially on floor because it's fine. You get to perform and smile and dance and things like that. So I think it's kind of this feeling of like joy and like, like you're proud that you survived and that I landed on my feet. So yeah, I would say that. Relief or joy?

I would say definitely joy because relief would be more if I doubted that I could do it. And joy is more like I expected, I knew I could do it and I expected I would do it and I did it, you know? I love that you paused there because that is, I think, the dilemma for the anxious mind is that they get to the end of something and it's like relief that I'm not enduring that anxiety and that torturous way of wondering and worrying that if I don't do this, am I going to be okay? And it sounds like even in the context of just how, I don't even know the right word, but just how toxic is a light word to describe what you,

the environment you're in, but, you know, certainly abusive at one level, but for you to still find joy, I mean, it's a remarkable nod to how resilient you are to be able to feel joy in that way on that moment and to be able to be like, yeah, look, I did this and this is, this is, I'm, I'm doing what I'm capable of doing right here. Yeah. Yeah. You say, yeah, like it's no big deal. All right.

So before we get into coaching philosophy for just a moment, I think that the parent scenario that is kind of just kind of sitting in the background for me a little bit, like how did your parents deal? So I think about my 12-year-old son and you were just two years older when sexual abuse started happening for you. I mean, how did your parents, how did they manage your truth? Um, I think it was difficult, especially for my mom. Cause my mom was, you know, definitely really involved in, um, just like all the things that it required to get me into where I need to get to. And, um, and so I think she, she felt exactly how you would expect a parent to feel, you know, is just a little bit guilty and I'm thinking like, why did I keep her in that environment? And was it worth it? You know, for her to achieve her dreams of going to the Olympics and get this gold medal

and everything that is every door that's open for her, it was, it was a worth it. And so, you know, for me, especially just kind of reminding my mom that, you know, I'm okay and it's okay. And you, you did the best that you could, um, has been, I think, helpful for her, but you know, it's, I've never been a parent and I have, well, I haven't been a parent yet. Um, but I can imagine that that's really difficult because I think parents always want to protect their kids from any harm whatsoever. And my mom really, really wanted to help me achieve my dreams and support me in doing that. And then looking back, knowing that I was put in harm's way, it just, it's hard for my parents, both of my parents. So, um, yeah.

Can you teach on grooming and then also want to learn how you made the decision to be public with it? Yeah. Again, like once I had sort of processed through everything, I learned what grooming was and how that was a huge part of my story. Um, and, you know, specifically in my case with, with Dr. Larry Nassar, he, so he actually lived in the same town as me. And so, um, you know, anytime I had an injury or something going on, like he was kind of the go-to because he was the gymnastics doctor. He, he was the national team doctor since the nineties. And, um, I, I remember feeling like really honored and blessed that I actually lived in the same town as him because any other, you know, athlete on the national team, um, couldn't just have easy

access to, to go see him for an injury. Um, and there were a lot of injuries that he really helped me with. And I went like, if my back was tweaked, you know, I'd go see Larry and he'd do an adjustment and I'd be fine. And so he, in my eyes was sort of this like magical doctor and he was really good. And, um, and then, you know, anytime I would go to see him for injury from age eight on, it was like, he was always the nicest guy and super friendly. And my parents really enjoyed him and trusted him. So he would often go to drinks with my parents and just talk

about the stresses of elite gymnastics. And, and so all of that now looking back was his way of grooming both me and my parents to, to trust him and to, um, you know, for him to get to what he wanted to get to. So, um, there was that. And then, you know, so I would say that was a big part of grooming. And then I think, I think grooming is mainly just gaining trust and in little ways, especially with, with kids it's being friendly. And then, you know, my specific situation, I had a coach that was really intense and mean. And so Larry was really good at playing like good cop with the bad cop, which was a huge

part of the grooming. So he was really good at whenever I would go to see him for an injury, you know, he would, he would really make me feel comfortable and make me feel like he was the nice guy in a situation. And he did that for a lot of people. So you, you have another jarring quote, which you just said that I thought that training for the Olympics would be the hardest thing I'd have to do. But in fact, the hardest thing I've ever had to do is process that I'm a victim of Larry Nassar. And how, how do you do that? How do you process that? Um, I mean, I think it's an ongoing thing constantly. Um, for me, it was like the word victim made me really upset. Like I didn't

like that. And I hated the fact that, um, you know, once I came forward publicly that people would always make an association with me and that, you know, sexual abuse story. So, um, you know, processing through it, it was just kind of coming to terms that it did happen to me. Um, and there wasn't anything I could have done to prevent it necessarily. And that's okay. And, um, kind of understanding that, like not feeling bad that I, I let it happen and realizing I was literally 14. I didn't feel like a 14 year old, but I was, and it's not my fault, you know, and there were a lot of adults that, um, allowed that to happen. A lot of adults allowed a lot of things to let it get to that point.

And so, um, it was just kind of understanding all the dynamics, looking back on all of it and really coming to terms with what exactly happened. And then also understanding how it's affected me, my personality, my life. It's made me who I am. And just developing an understanding of all that to me is how I process through it. Yeah. And some of the accounts were like abuse was happening. I don't know if it was for you or not, but abuse was happening when parents were like in the next room, like, or even

in the same room, but, um, you know, curtain away, is that accurate or has that been dramatized? No, that's accurate. I mean, that, that was the case for me as well. My older sister and my mom, I think on separate appointments were in the room. And that's what's really hard for people to understand who weren't a part of it. And people, like you said, think it's dramatized because it's so hard to believe that an adult could be in the room and another adult could be abusing a child. And the other adult wouldn't notice. But that's how skilled and how good at manipulating people he was. So he would position himself. He would use a towel to cover and he would keep conversation going so that, you know, nobody suspected anything. And that's how skilled he was. And that's how he could get away with it for so many years.

And it's, it's even, it's crazy to think about. Like, what did you just do? Like, mom, get over here. Like, how did that psychology play into your decision to not say anything? Because you imagine like a different scenario, 14-year-old would be like, what was that? But the ecosystem, the unhealthy ecosystem of power and control and abuse that you've described, it almost feels like an alternative universe that you have to, you have to be in it to really understand it. I think that's how it's making sense to me at least. Yeah. And I said before, I didn't understand what was going on while it was happening. And the reason why, mainly why I didn't was because before he did this treatment,

um, that I later understood to be, you know, sexual abuse, he explained it as a medical treatment. He explained, okay, this is what I'm going to do. This is how it's going to help you. Um, you can look it up in a medical textbook. Um, however, it's not supposed to be done under your clothes without gloves on. And so he explained it as a medical treatment. I remember feeling very uncomfortable as it was happening.

Um, but thinking, okay, like it's almost over. It's almost over. And, um, and just not questioning because again, he was this national team doctor that was so well world renowned and had a great reputation and helped him with so many other things. It was like, that was kind of the, the things that were going on in my head of, okay, I have no reason to question this. So like, this must be normal. And then on top of everything, and I would go to the, to the Corolli ranch every month and, you know, we would talk as teammates and we'd say, Hey, does he do this weird treatment to you? Yeah. He does it to me. Does he do it to you too?

Yeah. And so it was like normalized. It was like, okay, if he does it to everyone else, then it must be normal. And that was our way of trying to understand it as 15, 16 year olds, which is pretty messed up to think about. But that's why I didn't question. That's why I didn't understand. That makes sense to me. I had no idea that that was kind of how it happened for you guys. Yeah. So is this the, um, the infamous, I don't, I don't even know what to say, but like the coccyx adjustment with the, um, for the, like the tip of the spine, is that what he was saying? He was adjusting. No, no no it's i think it's called a pelvic floor treatment something like that yep um so yeah yeah okay and no glove

yeah so and was he getting gratified from it or was this an abuse thing um i don't know um there are a few girls who have said that that was their experience i don't i don't know i didn't realize i didn't you know look i didn't know to look you know right when i think about just how important um your story is to helping other kids like say, hey, listen, I didn't even quite realize it. And I mean, it's so important because kids don't know. And if they do know, sometimes they don't have the abilities to say, and it sounds like you were on the other side of it, but there was some sort of checking in with the other gals.

Like, is this normal? Is this how it happens here? And it was just such an alternate universe of power and control by adults that I don't know what the clean takeaway is that you'd want to say to other kids and other parents. But maybe I can just kind of leave it open-ended and say, what is the core message that you want to say to kids and parents? You know, like when you say that, it's like, I don't, I don't think there's any responsibility on kids to really know that that's going on. If it's going on, it's, it's really tricky. Um, but I also will say, I later learned that back in 1997, he did the same treatment to a Michigan state gymnast. She told her head coach, the head coach said, no, he wouldn't, he would never do something like that. Um, and that was the first time someone spoke up about it. And here we are,

it's, you know, whatever, I came forward in 2018. So how many years is, I can't do mental math that fast, but like, you know, how many years had people been saying something and adults weren't listening and there was powerful people protecting other powerful people. And that's, that's the issue more so than kids need to recognize. I do think there's a message for young people. And if something seems off or something doesn't seem normal, then tell somebody, ask an adult, somebody you trust. And if they don't listen to you, don't believe you, keep telling somebody until they listen. That's a message to kids.

And then, you know, that's awesome. How many people were convicted? Uh, how many heads rolled if you will, in, in USA gymnastics? Well, um, Larry Nassar was the only one that went to prison or has gone to prison so far. Steve Penny, who was the president of USA Gymnastics, I think he was charged. I don't currently know what the status of his case is, but I know that he was charged with something. I don't know the specifics. I mean, this is obviously materially important in your life. And there's also something else that's materially important, which is the way that you are shaping the culture from health and from regard and from aspiring towards the upper reaches of capabilities for people.

So how are you shaping the culture? All the things that you've experienced, the highs and the lows and all the things that you experienced? Are you at a place yet where you have been able to like formalize your culture and have some guiding principles and thoughts, or have you written it down? Or is it more like, no, I just, I'm waking up and I'm feeling my way through it. And like, where are you on your journey as a, as a head coach? It's hard to say because I, I personally believe that culture is such a broad word. It's like, how do you even define culture? Um, and I think it's really hard to define a culture. And I think culture is like, it's just, it's actions every single day and it's constantly evolving and forming and it's never perfect. And, um, and so I think that's

kind of where we're at, you know, as a program, because I took over the program two years ago, um, when, where there already was an existing culture from a different coaching staff. And so as much as I would like to just come in overnight and, you know, change the mindset of, of 16 athletes and how they're used to doing things. I knew that wasn't realistic. Um, and so I had a leadership coach my first year and he, he, whenever I was frustrated that they weren't buying into my ideas, um, or getting it, um, he would say, as long as you have 51%, you don't even have a whole hundred percent of them, but you just got to have 51%. And that really helped me.

Um, and we're still, we're working hard at culture and it's, it's, uh, tricky to kind of revamp a culture that already existed with, you know, athletes that are staying and, um, but it's, it's fun. It's a challenge every single day. And I love the mentorship side of it. I love that I can have individual conversations with athletes every day that end up, you know, coming together and affecting how, how the culture is of the whole team. Um, and that's one of my favorite parts about coaching. How are you coaching folks that are just a handful of years older than you? Like that's, that's a remarkable challenge in and of itself. You know, I don't really like everybody asks asks me that question of like, what is that like

coaching athletes that are close in age to you? And I, I, I really like I'm 25 and I don't feel 25, I feel 35 and I've always felt older than my age. And I think that in large part has to do with, you know, having to be mature at a young age and grow up and go through some really hard things. So I don't, that's how I feel when I'm coaching them. I feel 35 when I'm coaching them. And, you know, sometimes it's funny because like, I'll like the same kind of music as

them, but I try to like set my boundaries as a coach and not cross that boundary into like, I'm your friend. Like I very much am the head coach. And, um, but we also have a very young coaching staff or I have three assistant coaches and we're all young. And I actually think that's our, that's one of our strengths, um, because we're young and we're relatable to our athletes. You know, not long ago, we, we all experienced things that are going through and, um, it's never been a fault of our program that we're all younger. It's always been a strength. So I text Coach Val before we had this conversation and she shared with me something that is completely accurate.

She said, enjoy. She's wise beyond her years. And so I think you would say, yeah, you feel like that you said, you know, 25 to 35. But wisdom is something that is universal. It's timeless. It's available to all people. There's a truth to it. There's a simplicity in it. And so when you think about wisdom for you, what are some things that you know right now to be true that you believe is universal for all, if we could be so bold? Yeah. I mean, just off the top of my head, I think this speaks true to me especially, and this is something I try to teach my athletes and talk about how we're trying to change the culture. This is one piece that I try to transfer to my office every day. And that is, okay, yes, I'm, I'm young. And when I got this job, I was inexperienced in comparison to every other coach, but I truly believe that you can, you can do anything you want as long as you work hard and you develop confidence.

And I think like, that's how I've approached this new job is that I didn't know most things about being a head coach. I didn't know how to manage a budget. I didn't know like some of the behind the scenes things. Um, I didn't even know what I was going to do my first day on the job, but I knew that if I could have the confidence to figure it out, then I can figure it out. And so, you know, translating that now to how I coach is that, um, you know, we could have an athlete who may not be, you know, Olympian, they may not be the best athlete in the whole world, but if I can help build their confidence, um, and they believe that they're one of the best in the world, then their gymnastics will follow.

And so I really try to build up those, the athletes to just be more confident human beings, not just confident gymnasts, but confident human beings. Um, cause that translates into their whole life. And then do you have some ways that you help build confidence for folks? I mean, yeah, this is like my, a lot of my coaching philosophy comes from what I learned from Ms. Val, although Ms. Val and I are very like different personalities. My foundation is very similar. And that is, um, I try to coach the whole person that is our athletes, um, because they are yes, gymnasts, but they are human beings and they're people and they have other parts of their lives that are important to them, like their academics, like their relationships, you know, all these other things, what they aspire to be and so on and so forth.

Um, and so you talk about relationships that really connected with me because one of the things that, um, I do to try to motivate my athletes is get to know them individually. We get, we have them take the Enneagram test. I often take them to coffee and just get to know them individually. We get, we have them take the Enneagram test. I often take them to coffee and just get to know them and talk about anything but gymnastics to get to know them. Um, so we have at least a relationship. And then when I'm trying to push them to reach their potential or get them to, you know, work a little bit harder or hold themselves to a higher standard, we have this relationship and understanding of each other. Um, and that that's really important to me. And I think that's like the foundation for how we start to build confidence is just belief in themselves

and then knowing that I believe in them. What does psychological agility mean to you? Being able to adjust when the conditions change dramatically, you know, like the ability to respond when, when you thought it was going to go some way, but then new demands are challenging that original plan. So we need some sort of agility to pivot and adjust. And so when you, when you hear psychological agility, where do you go? I mean, I pair it. I like, I think you can interchange that with resilience and being able to, I think, go through stuff in life, feel the emotions that it comes with and be okay with feeling that and then decide when you're going to, you know, turn the page and move forward. I think that's, it's a really great strength and skill

to learn, to have, I would say psychological agility. Um, but you can't forget the part where you have to be able to feel your feelings. And that's something that, you know, as a gymnast, I wasn't allowed to do, or wasn't given the space to do that. I'm learning to do now as a human being and an adult. And, um, and I think you could have the resilience and the psychological agility, but still, um, feel and in, and be able to feel those things. So, uh, what a gift you're giving so many. And so, um, and so many in our community here, I, I mean, really, I want to say thank you because I think this conversation is challenging for me because it's hard for me to really understand

and I want to. And it's remarkable what you've done. And it's remarkable because of the culture. I know that 80% of behavior is mapped towards culture. And the cultures that you've been in have been insidious, toxic, but also created such a sharpening of your skill that that ecosystem is just absolutely riddled with challenge. And I've listened to you and I go, wow. And I feel how you're choosing words.

I say, my goodness, like there's groundedness, there's clarity. What is your work like? What other work do you have that you're trying to do? Because not that it matters, but like on the other side of this, I'm like, it's remarkable. So what does the future of your work look like from the inside out? Yeah. I mean, I, the reason why I coach and the reason why I chose this profession, um, was because I knew I wanted to do something where I was able to impact people's lives. And, um, and you know, me and one of my assistant coaches, we always say this, but, um, you know, we, we, we love helping people and gymnastics is our best tool to be able to do that. And so that's, that's, that's why I

coach. It's not about winning national championships, although I, I think winning is really fun. Um, and that's our goal is to strive towards winning an sec and national championship. Um, I know that the way to get there is by impacting as many people's lives as I possibly can. So, I mean, that's, that's to me, the future is just helping develop my student athletes as humans and help them reach their potential as athletes. And in addition to that, I still do a lot of speaking and telling my story about whether it, you know, be my sexual abuse story or my story of just resilience in things that I've overcome in my life. Cause I feel like that's, that's a universal theme for everybody, especially

with COVID. It's like, we've all had to kind of flex our resilience muscle over and over and over again this past year, figure out how to keep putting one foot in front of the other. So I feel like that's a story that I want to keep telling and sharing with people because it resonates with everybody, um, of how do you experience something in life, whether it be, you know, a little fender bender or a death of a loved one or, you know, anywhere in between. Um, and how do you pick yourself back up and keep going? So I really enjoy doing that. I'm also really passionate about just affecting change for the sport. I'm doing that through coaching. I'm also doing that in a few other ways. And over the last, I don't know, four years, I've gone back and forth to Washington, D.C. and met with senators trying to figure out what legislation do we need in place

and who we need to talk to to figure out who's going to be in charge of the Olympic committee and our national governing body and figure out who are the people in charge and, and making sure that these athletes are protected so that this situation doesn't happen again. So that's something I'm still passionate about. It's, you know, we're still not there yet. We've got to keep going. But that's the future. I think you're a great teacher of it. You know, and so it is, Ms. Fowle was absolutely right that there's a wisdom that you've earned.

I am, I'm so happy that we got to meet and that you could, like I could better understand the capabilities that you've come to earn. And so, you know, before we wrap is that, obviously I want to support people to find you, to be able to say, okay, like we've got a platform. We want to celebrate resiliency.

We want to celebrate, you know, what it means to have grit and to have a mindset that allows potential to be expressed and how to deal with pressure better and to how to be nimble, like all of those things that you can speak straight to the center to where can we send folks to do that? Is it your website? Is it social? Yeah, I would say social. I mean, I, my account is Jordan underscore Weaver. And then also our NCAA college gymnastics team is Razorback gym. And so that's mainly my space right now is just,

uh, being involved in growing our program and building our, um, especially our social media presence. And it's really fun. We do a lot of cool stuff with videography and showcasing our athletes. It's fun to follow. So, um, I would say those two places. Okay, Jordan, give a big hug to Miss Val. And yeah, and thank you so much for sharing in an open, honest, authentic, grounded way. It's really refreshing to hear the way that you choose words and the way that you hold true to, you know, your North Stars. So I just want to say thank you. Well, thanks for having me. This was awesome.

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