Finding Mastery with Dr. Michael Gervais - Responding to Adversity - On and Off The Field | USWNT Player, Kelley O'Hara

Episode Date: July 1, 2020

This week’s conversation is with Kelley O’Hara, who plays soccer for both the US women’s national team and Utah Royals FC.As a member of the USWNT, she has won two World Cups and an Olympic Gold Medal.Prior to her professional career, she attended Stanford University, where she won the Hermann Trophy in 2009, awarded annually to the United States' top male and female college soccer players.We cover so much in this conversation.Inner Drive. Resiliency. Equality. Authenticity. Impact.When I think about the challenging times we’re currently facing, those 5 words are just about the most significant words I can think of right now.Kelley is a tremendous role model for the next generation and I can’t wait for you to learn from her._________________Subscribe to our Youtube Channel for more powerful conversations at the intersection of high performance, leadership, and meaning: https://www.youtube.com/c/FindingMasteryGet exclusive discounts and support our amazing sponsors! Go to: https://findingmastery.com/sponsors/Subscribe to the Finding Mastery newsletter for weekly high performance insights: https://www.findingmastery.com/newsletter Download Dr. Mike's Morning Mindset Routine! https://www.findingmastery.com/morningmindsetFollow us on Instagram, LinkedIn, and X.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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these conversations is to sit down with people who are extraordinary. Extraordinary in the way that they think, extraordinary in what they do, but more importantly in these conversations is to better understand how they've organized their inner life. What do they do to make sense of themselves, to make sense of events, and how do they use their mind to excel in life? And excelling in life is not winning necessarily. Excelling in life is living a life of flourishing, of fulfillment, of purpose and meaning and be connected and doing it all in the same time, at least for these conversations, in rugged and high stakes and high performing environments. Finding Mastery is brought to you by LinkedIn Sales Solutions. In any high performing environment that I've been part of, from elite teams to executive boardrooms, one thing holds true.

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with something seamless, I'd love for you to go check them out. Get a free variety pack, a $25 value and 10% off for life when you head to davidprotein.com slash finding mastery. That's David, D-A-V-I-D, protein, P-R-O-T-E-I-N.com slash finding mastery. Okay. This week's conversation is with Kelly O'Hara and she plays soccer for both the U.S. Women's National Team and the Utah Royals FC. As a member of the United States Women's National Team, she's won two World Cups and an Olympic gold medal. And in fact, she's one of three players on the national team that played every minute for the U.S. in the Olympic Games in 2012. How epic is that? To contribute in a way where you play every moment.

And then prior to that, she attended Stanford University, where she won the Herman Trophy in 2009. And that's awarded to folks who are the top in the U.S., top male, top female college players across the nation. So she understands what it means, how to do it. And that's really what this conversation about, we cover so much in this conversation. And we get into resiliency and equality and inner drive, authenticity, and impact. And when I think about the challenge that's happening across the planet, but certainly in the United States, that we're currently facing right now, those five principles, those are significant now. Resilience and equality, authenticity, inner drive, and impact.

I mean, those are big time. Kelly's just a fantastic, a tremendous role model for the next generation. And with that, let's jump right into this week's conversation with Kelly O'Hara. Kelly, how are you? I'm good. How are you? You know, all things considered, it's a really intense, electrified, charged, emotionally charged time. And in many ways, I'm doing really well. It's hard to say that out loud, because I know that there's so many people that are really suffering. And, you know, the joy of my life right now is that I'm at home and I'm stable. And no one in my family has COVID. And I've been passionate about justice for a long time. And uncertain times are kind of

right in my wheelhouse. So for that, I feel grateful and I'm excited about the work ahead for all of us. So thank you for asking. Yeah, of course. Okay. So that's me talking a lot. And this is meant to be more about you. So really, what is it like to be you right now? Oh, man. I feel like that's a slightly loaded question. I'm back in Utah. So I play for the Royals FC, which is the club here in Salt Lake City, which is part of NWSL and we're in the build up training period to our I guess you could call it mini season tournament style season which we're going to play in Utah in July so I've just been getting

back into training getting back on the field working working through, you know, body, making sure things are working right, getting, feeling like, oh, can I play soccer again? That sort of thing. And then also juggling all the things off the field, which obviously, like you said, there's a lot happening right now in the world. So just trying to take care of myself so that I can take care of other people. Yeah. So I'm good, but it's also, it doesn't come with that. The good doesn't come with a lot of added stress from different things. Yeah. And you have, you understand the equality, the justice narrative. Yeah. You've lived it. You fought for it. And really, when I asked that question, sister, friend, teammate, co-worker, you know, representative of a group of players for national team in terms of our PA. So it's

kind of like, I feel like I'm trying to make sure everyone's okay. Cause I, that, I think that's just in my nature. Um, so that I think is what adds a lot of stress because at no point is everyone going to be okay. And you have to understand that, but then you have to just figure out ways that you can help and impact where you can, but also understand that you have to just handle things and try to make things the best they can be, but know that it's never going to be perfect. Where did, yeah, that is the balance, isn't it? You know, where did that come from for you? That idea that I'm going to take on a lot and I'm going to do it primarily in the service of others slash I want to make sure that people are okay. There's a slight

2% difference between those. And if we're not thoughtful about it, one of them is like mission-minded for the betterment of humanity. And the other one is like codependency, which my happiness depends on their happiness. And when they're not happy, then I get myself knotted up. And so which side do you fall on? And then where does it come from for you? Well, I would say that I haven't always had this role. I think that I've come to step into it more as a veteran player, seen a, I've, I've been through what you're going through and I'm going to try to help you however I can. Um, but I also think that, like you said, is it codependency or is it like mission driven? And for me, I've just seen that the impact that we can make individually on people. And then as

a collective is so important. So I think there's obviously like, I wouldn't, I think I'd be lying to say there isn't a little bit of codependency. I think we all have this, like, I want you to be happy because if you're happy, then I'll be happy. But at the same time, I try to remember that everyone's not going to be happy all the time. And that's just a fact of life. But if you can try to improve for the collective, like just focus on that. You got to stay focused on that, I think. What was it like growing up?

Because you learned something about how humans work and how potential works. You learned that at a young age. And then in the family, sometimes it's not good messaging. It's unhealthy messaging. And actually, it's probably a little bit of good and a little bit of not good, right? Like there's that balance with our first families. But I want to get a sense of that foundational stuff. And then maybe it was there or where did you come to learn that other people's wellness is

really important? I think that in my growing up, like in my childhood, the way my parents raised me was, you need to, like, we're not going to be helicopter parents. We just expect you to be your best. And I think that's what kind of has molded me into the person that I am. Right there, though, that's a really strong message. We're not going to be overly involved, but we expect you to be your best. Oh, yeah.

Like mom and dad, they still tell this story. So I have an older sister, younger brother. And I was in, I think I was maybe in middle school. Sister was high school. She's two years older than me or 60 months older than me. Brother's two and a half years younger than me. So we're all very close in age. And my parents, it was the beginning of a school year.

And they were like, all right, we expect you guys all to get A's. And that was just the end of a school year and they were like, all right, we expect you guys all to get A's. And that was, that was just the end of their statement. And my sister was like, well, B's are average. So why can't we just get B's? And my parents were like, well, you're not average. She was like, but that's not fair. And it's like, and, and from that, it was like, that's what you, that's what we expect. And we, you guys need to go do that. And like I said, they weren't, they weren't helicopter parents. They just do your homework, get good grades, you know, reach your, reach your potential. And I, like I said, I think that shaped me a lot in, in who I am today, because it's not a place it's coming from

like me. Ooh, that's a really powerful thought, you know, which is it's not coming. So your drive is not coming from an external source. It's coming from an internal place, which your parents watered that seed early by a consistency of the message. Like, is this your best? Yeah. And, and again And again, I think I've learned a lot. I've learned a lot through my 20s. And that was something that I learned. I say, you know, they instilled that in me that your drive is going to come from within and you need to just live up to your potential and we're not going to micromanage. And they did that in sports too. And I think that, again, really affected me as a kid.

They basically said, do something because you love it. If you don't love it, find something you do love. And I've held true to that my whole life. And this idea of being self-motivated, like you said, they watered that. But I think that I didn't come to fully appreciate it and understand it until like mid, probably mid twenties. Like I had kind of always knew that but then it reaffirmed what I think I knew in the back of my head which was like external factors are are kind of are going to come and go and if you're looking for validation from

external factors if you're looking for motivation from external factors, if you're looking for motivation from external factors, you're going to be hard pressed to find it at times. Therefore you need to figure out how you find that within yourself because you're always going to have you and you're always going to have your internal dialogue and, and your internal drive. And so that's, yeah, that's something that I, it's kind of developed over the years. What led to that breakthrough? Yeah.

So at the, um, 2015 World Cup, I, so through my professional career, graduated 2010, 2012 or 2011, went to the World Cup as like the last player on the roster. Someone actually got, Lindsay Tarpley got hurt. I got added. Didn't expect to play. I played for 15 minutes total of the tournament. I was fine with that. I just wanted to be a cheerleader part of it.

2012 rolls around. Play every minute of every game of that tournament as an outside back, which I had been a forward all my life. And then 2015 rolls around, and I'm probably fourth on the depth chart, third or fourth on the depth chart of outside backs. And I because I was at this pinnacle of where I wanted to be in my career but I wasn't fulfilling what I wanted it to look like which was to be on the field playing and and participating and impacting um the team that way um but I did a lot of soul searching in that in those couple weeks and realized like I can't expect the coach

to give me an explanation of why I'm not playing why I haven't seen the field, I can't expect the coach to give me an explanation of why I'm not playing, why I haven't seen the field. I can't expect, and it's not to say I didn't lean on certain teammates, which I did, but I kind of had this reckoning within myself of, like, you have to self-motivate, and you have to go out to practice every single day and play like it's a world cup final so one you're prepared and two like you're just you're on fire like again you're prepared and and you and you want it so um and i ended up getting to start the quarterfinals i ended up going in the semifinals i ended up going in the finals and i don't think that would happen if i hadn't had this internal fire that just got burning bigger and bigger and pushed me to show that I was like ready and willing and locked in regardless of my hierarchy on the depth chart.

Okay. So the clarity was that I want to participate. I love how you said, I want to play, I want to participate and I want to impact. Like that was, that was the, what you were pursuing. Right. And so, okay. So then you didn't, you weren't getting that. It wasn't happening. And so there's this little mini crisis, right? Okay. Was an identity crisis or was it just like, I'm not getting what I want, damn it. Or was an identity thing? Like, who am I without this? I've definitely gone through the identity crisis. And I don't think that was a time, it was an identity crisis. It was more so like, I really wanted to go to Jill, who was our head coach at the time and say, why am I not playing? And I had to sit like, reel it back in and say, this is not the time and place to ask the head coach who's

trying to win a world cup why you're not playing you're not playing because you're not you know you're not in the picture she doesn't think that you're ready or you know there's probably a number of reasons just now you don't want to say you weren't good enough huh you couldn't say it could you i mean that's the reality like i i was good enough but i love but but you couldn't say it right now could you you couldn't even say like you know you wanted I love, but you couldn't say it right now, could you? You couldn't even say it. Like, you know, you wanted to say that, but you couldn't even, you couldn't even let it come out of your mouth. Yes.

Because I think that at that point I was good enough and there had been times in my career that I wasn't. And I think that, and I, and I recognize that and I acknowledge those moments because I wasn't where I needed to be to play at the level that I was potentially going to be playing at. But in that moment, I was like, I know I'm good enough. I know what I have to offer and I'm going to show it in the only format that I have, which is practicing. And I went out to every single practice and just was a crazy person, was just on fire because I was like, I'm going to show you that when you look down that bench, you know that you can count on me because I was like, I'm going to show you that when you look down that bench, you know that you can count on me because I'm locked in. Even though I'm not playing right now,

you can see it in practice. Feels good to even recount. I feel like I measure, you wouldn't know this Kelly, but I measure daily success by how many times my hair stands up because it's that intersection between the big awe. It's like the expression of awe, like, ah, you know, like, wow. And it's also at the singularity of like, I'm right there in it as best I can with those types of moments. So, all right. So is that the conversation that you had? Is that literally, because so often Kelly, people talk about like theoretical stuff and they, it's almost like a vulnerability refusal to talk about the actual internal narrative, which it's that internal narrative bounced up against the challenge ahead that really is the inner game, right? And so if you don't have awareness and you don't have a sense of the

challenge or your internal skills, the external challenge, and then the internal skills, but I mean, what are we doing? We're just kind of robots or something. So is that what it sounded like in your head? Like I'm a frick watch. Yeah. Here I go. Like it was like that, right? Yeah. It was, it was, there was a bit of self pity that happened. You know, it was like, Oh, like game one goes on, you don't get in. Game two happens. You don't get subbed in. And it was like, Oh, like game one goes on. You don't get in game two happens. You don't get subbed in. And you're like, Oh, bummer. Maybe, maybe I'll start. Maybe I'll

get subbed in third game. Third game happens. You don't. And you're like, dang, I'm like, this is, this is the world stage that you live for, that you train your career for. And I'm not even like, I'm here, but it's, it's almost as if I'm not here. And that's not to discount like who I am as a teammate, cheering people on, on the bench. And I was trying to be that as much as possible, but it was very much so like, I, I want to be on that field and I'm not. And it was, it was changing self pity and like pouting. I tried to do that, you know, away from the team alone. Cause I didn't want to affect them and how they felt because at the end of the day, we're all, we're all going to win a world cup if we win a world cup. But it was changing that to be like,

how do I change this specific moment? How do I get out of this? Is that, was that your question? That was your investigation? This is my state of pity. How do I change it? I think it was like, yeah, this is the reality I found myself in. How do I change it? Because I don't want this moment to pass me by because I was too bummed out or, you know, oh, woe is me to make something happen. Because I would have regretted it. Maybe even if I didn't get the chances that I got, I think I would have still hopefully been proud of the way that I carried myself in that moment. Finding Mastery is brought to you by Momentus. When it comes to high performance, whether you're leading a team, raising a family,

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Again, that's felix gray you spell it f-e-l-i-x-g-r-a-y.com and use the code finding mastery 20 at felixgray.com for 20 off are you an introvert or an extroverted processor oh um i've i've talked to a sports psychologist before and I told him I was an introvert and he's like, no, you're not. He's like, you're an introvert. And I was like, what's that? And it's both. It's being able to, to do both and gain energy and clarity both ways.

Yeah, that's exactly right. That's what you want. That's what we as humans want. It's a bit like a light switch. We want to be introverted when it calls for it and extroverted when it calls for it and know how to toggle between the two. And the idea is like, how do you gather energy best? Is it by processing internally, writing, listening, kind of intimacy, if you will, or is it by, do you gather energy from being around others, talking, being in the mix, and that's how you think best and gather energy. So if you had to say my true preference is? It really is both. For instance,

during that World Cup, I spent a lot of time on, in the moments that I could, I would go away, go for a long walk, go into, like, I remember sitting by this lake for an hour reading this book about the history of, like, existence and that sort of thing. And that, I need that. I need alone time. I need quiet time. But I also do gain a lot from conversation and, you know, bouncing my thoughts and my feelings and my opinions off of somebody else. And, you know, and, and having that back and forth because your internal dialogue is always, it's just you, you know, and you can, you can kind of add to it by reading and listening and, and learning. But then at the end of the day, I think that you do have to have some external conversations. Do you journal? At times, I journal.

Yeah. I get the sense of like, I would say probably just from our 30 minutes here is that you've got more than normal introverted processing. More than normal meaning more than most. And so, you know, which is in and of itself, it's a bit rare, you know, because most people are extroverted, not because it's a true preference, but because our world in Western culture tends to value that. And so people get kind of nudged into that direction and build that skill, but it might not be their true preference. Okay, enough of that.

Are you introverted or extroverted? Did you ask which one am I? Yeah. Yeah, when I first examined this part of my life, I was like, oh, extroverted. Okay. And then as I double-click, triple-click, thought more about it, I'm much more introverted than I would have thought. And I prefer deep, intimate conversations rather than bouncing around, you know, on the surface from, yeah, you would too. Yeah. So it's no, it's not lost that we're engaging in a format

where it's deep and intimate, you know, as opposed to like, I don't know, something else that's more extroverted. Although I don't, I don't, I'm not great at journaling, you know, which is a more introverted process. I have journaled in the past and it's funny when I was a kid, I was like, Ooh, I don't want to write these things down because like, what if I back on this and I'm so embarrassed or like somebody sees this or that sort of thing, you know? So I think that I'm like, know google doc is probably the best option because it's oh because that's not being monitored at all yeah when I was a kid I feel like there were so many times that you just were you felt so passionately about something or you were so wound up about something. And then you think, I mean, even now,

you look back six months later and you're like that, that was just a, that wasn't, that wasn't supposed, that shouldn't have been a stressful moment. So I think that I've, I've, I sometimes steer away from it, but I have found, and I actually journaled a lot. I journal a lot during major tournaments because it is important. I find the same. Yeah. During events, I want to understand and catalog and organize and make sense. Yeah. And it archives it in a cool way too. Okay.

So what does your heart want? Oh gosh. What does my heart want? Um, I think my heart wants, or my heart wants people to feel loved, people to feel accepted, people to be open-minded. Um, and for me to be a person that helps to create that type of world in society and people to feel valued like at the end of the day everyone just wants to be loved right and i think that that's the most important thing so you've taken a non-traditional path

for intimacy and love and can you walk through what that's been like for you as a, this is a little bit of a double loaded question, which is there's great inequity. There's a fight right now for justice and equality, and it's a necessary fight. And so you've lived those shoes. And you're also white. And so as a white female that has lived the path of marginalization in Western culture from an intimate relationship standpoint, how is that for you? I mean, it's an interesting thing because I feel like I, I don't know how to put it. It's not that I don't feel like I'm different. Like I don't look at myself and think like, like, oh, I'm, I'm super different from anyone else because I have felt so accepted. And I don't, I don't know. I don't see myself as like you say non-traditional and it is, you know, being dating a female. But I guess I don't know, I've gotten to a place where I don't

worry about that, maybe, I don't know. So, so there's some freedom, it sounds like there's some freedom in there. But also, you know, as I was asking the question, right after right at when I got done with the question, I said, I wonder if my question was offensive. Because it's not meant to be. And I wondered if I tripped into something that got you triggered around the conversation as well. No, I didn't find it offensive. I don't talk about my personal relationship that much. I mean, and it's out of respect for my partner who isn't in the public eye. So, and I think that that actually is what's difficult is that people think that I'm not

like comfortable or super in love or proud of like who I am um because I am and I'm like and I'm really thankful that I've come to that place but like I said I I don't talk about it a lot because of protecting her and so I guess I I haven't I. I don't, I don't find your question offensive, but I don't know. Yeah, no, I think you're super clear. You're like, yeah, it's just a part I don't talk about much, but I really love who I am and I'm in love. And how do you relate as the white woman piece to being alive right now in a one radical time in history and two, a really important time, you know, like, like how is it to be a white woman right now? Well, it's interesting because I feel like I've learned so much just in the past couple of weeks

and that has been so enlightening. And I so thankful. Obviously, how my gosh, this is, this still impacts so many people. And so many people like were numb or just didn't, are not aware of it, that sort of thing. Or just like, oh, this is in the past. It's not, this is real. And this is scary. And this is something that has to change. So for me as like a white person, that's what I've been kind of sorting through, trying to educate, trying to listen, trying to understand. And then, and it's like twofold. So there's that, but then I'm a female and I've been fighting gender for gender equality for years now. And so I think that I, I don't want to say I have a unique perspective on like what the black community is going through. I don an, I have a perspective on inequality, um, that I wouldn't

have if I wasn't in the position that I am with the national team and being a female athlete. Um, and it's, and it's made me realize like systemic sexism is real. Therefore, like, like I, I know systemic racism is real because I've had that experience and a lot of people are like oh no it's you know they don't maybe they don't see from my perspective on the world that I live in and I don't see from certain people's perspective of the world that they live in however because I live in a place where I have had to fight for equality, I feel like, again, I said uniquely, I have a unique perspective. I feel like I can be empathetic and it gives me an understanding of like, this is so important.

And I will never understand how you feel, but I understand that you are feeling something and like, this is worth fighting for. That's rad. Okay. So I want to do two things. I want to get connected to your ancestry. You know, I want to know who are the ancestors, maybe you know them or don't know them, but who are the ancestors? let me hold on let me pause you're a really um unique person there's isn't it really unique yeah i knew you were gonna say that but but like you hold a unique position um in the zeitgeist of human potential for sure but where where what are the influences the the ancestral influences, whether you know these people or not, that occupy space for you? Well, I'm primarily British and Irish,

according to, I think it was either ancestry or there's another one. I think it was ancestry. Um, but then, you know, have a smattering across of, from, from Europe. Um, really my, my, both of my parents are super athletic. They came from very athletic backgrounds. Um, my mom's mom grew up in the coal mines in West Virginia had, I think they had, there's eight of them. They, you know, for them, it was education was super important. That's what my mother's great grandmother impressed upon them. like the way you get out of this is education um and then i'm a middle child i don't know if that's part of it too yeah no that's all that's all content for sure contextual and then how about the folks that are no longer with us like

the the people you carry with you that that whether they are thought leaders, spiritual leaders, political leaders, like who is, if there was a lineage of how you think and how you feel, who has influenced that for you? That is actually part of my ancestry. Maybe, maybe not. Like there's a, you know how there's like a coaching tree and maybe you were coached by them, but their coach was maybe influenced by a second degree coach and somehow you're connected to them. You know, I'm, I'm thinking more like, and I don't want to kind of drive you down a lane, but who are the thought leaders, spiritual leaders,

dead or alive that have influenced you? And because ancestry is a big deal for Eastern thinking, maybe a little bit bigger than Western thinking. And so I just want to open that up a little bit to see kind of where that past generation influences your current way of life. I think for me, it's been female athletes and the trails that they have blazed. You know, I looked up to the 99ers big time and I watched what they were doing and I wanted to do that and to be that. These aren't political or spiritual or thought leaders, but in my mind, sports is culture. So, for instance, I, for the first time, my recollection of first watching the Olympics is in 96,

the gymnastics team, Carrie Strug, and hurting her ankle and she pushed through through, and she landed it, and she won. And so it was just, that was my first instance of seeing females on the TV representing their country doing a sport. And then the 99ers happened. And so I think those influenced me as a kid to be like oh I'm gonna do that one day like I remember watching the Olympics and thinking I'll I'll be in the Olympics and I didn't I didn't at that point didn't know it'd be for soccer I just thought that I would be there for something so I think that even though there weren't a female athletes back then didn't get a lot of visibility or recognition. When I saw it, I connected to that and that impacted me in a big way.

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what was that like for you? If you pick a moment and we zoom into it, what is the moment that comes to mind? Is it a good, does it have to be a good moment or can be it? You go anywhere you want. Yeah, for sure. I would zoom in to 2011 World Cup. And like I said, I was brought in last minute as, you know, an alternate, but then was added to the roster because Lindsey Tarpley got hurt. And Pia, the coach at the time, said, you're not going to play. Like, you're here for a practice player you're here to be a cheerleader and and i said you got it i can be that person and then this was happening

like in the locker room was this on the field this was probably at the hotel in a meeting before we left for for the world cup and so kind of have that assumption of this is how my tournament's going to go. This is what I'm going to be. I'm not going to see the field. This is what I'm going to use for. And it's our third game in the group stage. We're playing Sweden. We're already through to the next round, but we want to beat Sweden

so that we can win our group and come out top seed. And we were losing, I think two zero, maybe it was one zero, 15 minutes left. Dawn Scott, who is our sports scientist, sports on like conditioning coach at the time walks down the bench. And her job was to tell people who was going in to go warm up. And she gets to me and she tells me to go warm up. And I just looking around thinking you, you're not talking to me.

Like you're definitely, you messed up. You need to go check, make sure you have the right player. Tells me to go. I got it. I got a different memo. Yeah.

Yeah. Not part of the game plan. I go warm up the whole time. I feel like I'm gonna pass out. I get to the center. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Why'd you, what's the passing out whole time. I feel like I'm gonna pass out. I get to the center. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Why'd you, what's the passing out part? Because I'm so nervous.

What were you saying to yourself? I'm not excited. I'm nervous. And what was that dialogue like? Holy shit. Don't pass out before you go into a game. That would be really embarrassing. So you're fighting like you're fighting such lightheadedness that you really were saying, keep my stuff together here. Don't pass out.

Yes. I was standing halfway line about to sub in my heart. It was through the roof. I could barely breathe. And I was like, just make sure that the circle doesn't close in and you pass that. Like the camera's going to be on you. You're subbing into a game. If you collapse right here, that would be really bad. That was going through my head before I went into the game. What was happening that it was such a big moment for you that your heart was pounding out of your chest as if it was a threat, like a massive threat to you? What was the framing? Certainly a fight or flight feeling. It was because I wasn't, I wasn't prepared. I'd only probably had seven or eight caps, which are appearances with the national team. And I, it was a high stakes game. We,

obviously the team was, you could feel the stress because we were losing and I was being asked to, to go help. And I was like, I'm not the person that needs to be going out there to help and um yeah so it was just it was purely based on inexperience and not being ready and I went into the game I played the worst 15 minutes of probably my professional career I don't pass out I just remember yelling Krie playing, Allie Krieger was playing, I think right back. And I was going in as a right mid. And so I remember saying, giving her some instructions, explaining what they wanted us to do. So I was trying to stay with it. And I tried to do as best I could.

Like I said, did not do well. What got you through it? I didn't, it didn't't i didn't get through it like it was very very bad i i played very i looked very much so out of my element um but i think once you get into the game you just start going and you can't pass out because like when you when you're standing there waiting to go in i had the potential to pass out because i was like locked up. But once you start moving, yes, I was still nervous. to be drug tested. And teammate sits down and says, she was like, what's wrong? And I said, that was the biggest epic fail of my life. And she just starts laughing. And we have this lighthearted moment. And I just looked at her. I'm like, no, it's not funny. My career could be over after this. And go through the drug testing.

And we're about to leave. And we walk out the door to the right where steps to go up to the field. If you go left, you would, we would go to the van to go back to the hotel. And I said, when we left, I said, Hey, can I take a second? And I walked up the steps and stood at the top of the steps on the field. The stadium was empty. It was quiet. The lights were off. And it was just the soccer field. And I took a moment and and just talked to myself and basically said this is a soccer field what you you you know how to play

soccer you've been doing it since you were four doesn't matter the stage doesn't matter who's in the stands how many people are watching on tv what the the stakes are. It's a soccer game and you know how to play soccer. So don't doubt that. And filed that away in the memory bank and then went from there. And I feel like I learned a very big lesson that day. That is what an agreement with yourself is about. True. And the agreement is, if I put it in my language, um, you know how to

do this. Don't ever turn your back on your history, right? Like don't ever abandon your experiences because that's what you did. You abandoned your experiences because there was lots of people watching. Cause it was high stakes. Yeah. Uh, perceived, right? Like that's a, it's a total relative term, stakes. It's a, right? And so you perceived it to be a defining moment. And I'm not sure I know what defining moments are. And I hear ESPN talk about it in Fox Sports. I hear them talk about a defining game, defining play, defining moment. And I'm just calling BS on it.

Like, and one of the things I think I would imagine you might agree with that. I don't know. I don't want to walk you down a path, but I would, I called one of the things I think I would imagine you might agree with that. I don't know. I don't want to walk you down a path. But I called one of our mutual friends, Paul Winsper, the Under Armour Global Director for High Performance. I said, who's Kelly to you? And he said, resilient. That's nice. Yeah.

Isn't that cool? And so this is a moment of all the, of all the places you could have taken this conversation, you went to a moment that called upon resiliency. And so if you were to walk through like the mechanics of being resilient, cause you've had, you've had injuries, you've battled through, you know you've had difficult, challenging moments. What goes into being, well, first of all, before we go, what goes into it? How do you think about being resilient? Well, just to go back on you saying that you asked for a moment, I took you to a moment that I had to be resilient. And I asked, can it be good? Does it need to be good or can it be bad?

For me, I think that, and I know that the toughest, hardest, most trying moments are the ones that are the most impactful. Like you don't, iron sharpens iron. You don't get to become the best or you don't get to a level of success without having to go through obstacles and figure out a way to respond to failure. Because that's just part of life. And I think that goes back to resiliency. It's not resiliency isn't, oh, I'm not going to mess up. I'm going to try to be perfect. It's I'm going to come up against obstacles, failures, hard times. And it's not

those things. It's how I respond to those things that create the person I am. So is resiliency for you the framing or like, okay, I want to figure some stuff out. So to me, to walk that path, there's going to be alligator pits that haven't been explored yet. There's going to be cliffs that are kind of falling apart on the edges of the path and I need to navigate that.

Like, is it framing? Like I want to go into those places, challenges and setbacks or whatever, or is it more about, and or is it more about the skills that you use to navigate the footing underneath the view, you know, the side of the cliff

falling apart? Is it more skill or is it framing or how do you think about resiliency in that way? I think resiliency is more the skill set. Courage is the ability to go into a difficult situation and the two go hand in hand. So what are the skills that you use when you're in the midst of something difficult or challenging? And we're talking about psychological skills at this point. So I don't know if this is a skill, this might not seem very intellectual, but I have come to understand that the phrase, this too shall pass, is so perfect for anything, at least I've come to find. And it's not dwelling on the negative. It's finding a way to control whatever you can control to change the situation that you're in. Yeah, so it's a mouthful. You talked about optimism.

You talked about acceptance. And you're talking about being on time with the moving present moment. So this too shall pass, meaning this conversation is going to pass. Something that's emotionally difficult is going to pass. Joy passes. And each moment unfolds, like one in front of the other. And if we're not on time with it, we miss life. And so this too shall pass.

So if it's going to pass, you know, it's not about like shedding it. It's like being in it to learn from it, whether it's the joy or the sorrow. Absolutely. I mean, I feel like we are all presented with situations and environments for a reason. And it's like, what can I learn from this? What can I learn from this what can i gain from this how can i again use this to make a better future for myself for the world for my teammates you know i've thought about that a lot lately that's kind of so that begs a question for me is like in your life when you think about your life, what are you pursuing?

I mean, I'm pursuing impact. I'm pursuing, yeah, I think I'm pursuing impact. Like in my mind, I'm in a position, whether I like it or not, that a lot of people look up to me. And a lot of people are inspired by what I do, what my teammates do. And in the beginning of my career, people would say that, be like, oh, you're so inspiring. What you do helps so many people. And, and I would, I'd kind of brush it off and say, I'm just playing soccer. Like I'm just doing what I love. And took me a while to understand that there's a responsibility that comes with it. And it's, and it's true. Like you are in a position where

you have the ability to impact people. You have the ability, ability to inspire people. And for me, it's making sure that, that I don't let that go to waste. And I think there's so many different ways that you can, you can use your platform for good. So it's just, it's making sure that, making sure that I do that, making sure that I impact individuals, communities, teams, society, the world for the better. Sounds like that's your purpose. Like that's, you know, your pursuit and your purpose lineup, you know, which has impact for, for humanity, for, for others. But I think I, I would hope that everybody feels that way because I think, no, no. Oh, you know, you have a platform because you have a large social media following. Like,

yes, that's true. But I just, I wish that more people understood the power that they have as individuals were whether they're in the public eye or they're not, that like your interactions on a day-to-day basis and how you choose to live your life impacts the people around you. And it's a ripple effect. Like that is, that is the world that I am in a spot that I can do really cool things and really special things and create a lot of change hopefully. But I also think that everyone should feel that empowerment and, and even if it's just in simple interactions with their friends or their family or, you know, their classmates, that sort of thing. I think that I wish more people felt that way. Yeah. Let's hope. And there's this side, you wouldn't know this, but I just released a book and yeah, so I'm super jacked about it.

It's called compete to create. Um, it, yeah, it's, but I talk about this in there, which is you are the pebble in the pond, whatever size pond is like, that's different for all people, but I talk about this in there, which is you are the pebble in the pond. Whatever size pond is, that's different for all people, but you are the pebble in the pond. And here's an idea that I talk about that I'd like to roll out with you is, so the first ripple is like your first community, your intimate circle. The second as it goes are other folks. There's an echo that takes place though, that pulls people back. And it's a fear. It's a fear of what people might be thinking about you. And that echo, that reverberation that comes back, it sometimes stops us at the first or not even maybe the first

ripple that we could get to. And can you talk about how you navigate other people's opinions about you? Yeah. I mean, I kind of talked about in the beginning how you're never going to please anyone, everyone. Like it's just, it's just a reality of life. And we actually, we had a national team call with Melinda Gates and she, I helped to, um, to moderate it and asked a couple of questions. And one of my questions was like, how do you, you have the ability of the resources to do so much in the world. How do you stay focused on your mission? And she said, and, and, and kind of not drown out, but again, stay focused. And, and she said that early on, um, Warren Buffett told her, you're going to have to define your bullseye. And I was like, Oh, I wrote it down. I got so excited. I was like, that's such a, that's such an awesome phrase,

define your bullseye. And that's kind of been, I've been, I've been thinking about that a lot. And it's like, what is my bullseye? And obviously, like I said, I want to, I want to, I want to leave this world better than I found it. I want to leave the national team better than I found it. I want to leave, you know, this, this life better than I found it, the society. But it's, it's how do you do that? And like, what are your passions? And I think that you do have to define your bullseye because there's so many things happening in the world that it's impossible to fix all of them. But if you are mission driven and you have a bullseye, you can continue to just focus on that. You can, you can feel like you are having impact. And I don't, I don't know. I think that

sometimes it's like, Oh, you want to see the fruits of your labor. You want to see this change, but you might not see it for a while. And, um, I also think that's important to remember and that change isn't necessarily going to happen overnight. But if you are putting in the work and you're putting the time and you're consciously making an effort to do the right thing and continue to focus on your bullseye and head towards that. I think it's easier to not worry about the criticism and the critique. You know, I was wondering if you're going to come back around because I, like I asked the question about other people's opinions and you went, yeah. And then you went right into mission and bullseye. And I was like, I see exactly what you're doing. It's like you just supplant the attentional space that you could allocate your resources to either what people think about you or the mission.

And you're saying, no, no, no, mission, mission, mission, mission, know it, live it, pivot, adjust, like stay the course on it. It's not temporary. You know, it's like a long game. And then you said, that's how you do it. So I was wondering if you're going to come back and close it because what you did is, it makes sense. It makes exact sense on how you organize your life. Okay, so let's go a couple quick hits here.

I want to honor your time. It all comes down to... Oh, staying true to yourself. You like that you said that, didn't you? You really like that. I love your grin. You're like, yeah, that's it. Because I think that so many people want you to be so many things and to do it the way

they want you to do it, especially in the position that I'm in. But at the end of the day, you have to respect the fact that I am who I am and I'm going to do it the way I'm you to do it, especially in the position that I'm in. But at the end of the day, like you have to respect the fact that I am who I am and I'm going to do it the way I'm going to do it. And that is me being true to myself. And I would hope that everyone would be happy for that, would applaud that. Cause I think if everyone stays true to themselves, like that's, you don't, you don't want somebody being some, someone else, be yourself. There's only you. Yeah. There's only, that is authenticity. Yeah. Right. Stay true to yourself. But to do that, you've got to know yourself and then you've got to know the core principles that are going to

help guide you. And then I think you need mental skills to be able to navigate the deep waters, the dark territories. And and it's it's that i have it all figured out i know i don't no no no right right yeah that that's a that would be a joke this conversation would probably end it at minute three hey i've got all the answers you know right okay so success is oh gosh is? Ooh, gosh. How do I define success? There's a, there's a simple way to do it. And that's the wins and losses column. And then there's a, there's a life way to do it. And that's like, how am I internally? And, and, and how am I again, creating change, impacting for the better,

making the people around me better, which will then ripple to everything else, hopefully. And then the key to success for you is? Or a key? I think a key to success for me is not taking life too seriously and enjoying the journey and

laughing and smiling. Like I'm a pretty happy person. Yeah. I think that's, you gotta, you gotta, gotta be able to find the bright spots in life. So have you done that in this conversation? I mean, have we laughed? I feel like we've laughed. Yeah, I have. You have too. Is this what it looks like when Kelly's not taking herself too seriously? I'm definitely taking myself seriously because I think that this is a serious, you know, a lot of what we've talked about is a serious conversation. It's pretty serious. Yeah.

Yeah. But I think with me, it's a balance. It's like, I like to smile. I like to be happy. And, but that doesn't, that doesn't mean that there's not going to be the hard conversations that like, Ooh, how do I explain this? Or, you know, the, the friction of internal feelings or, you know, external feelings, but yeah, maybe, yeah, I guess a little bit. Yeah. I think that this insight holds true for me. Like if you don't have joy, peace, and happiness, you really don't have much to offer anybody. Oh, true. It's so true. The intellect will not get us there.

No. Oh, my. I love that you said that. I agree. I think that sums me up because I can try to be as intellectual as possible. But at the end of the day, it's like this. Life is about relationships, community, and joy joy. Like joy is very different than happiness though. And I think that that joy is what drives me. I feel like I'm a very joyful individual and I'm thankful that I, I I'm able to do that. Cause I know that that's not sometimes possible for a

lot of people. Um, but yeah, joy is joy is so important in life. What is a word that comes up right now as a word that you're totally keyed into? Call it a favorite word, whatever, but it's just a word that comes up that you're like, that's a good word for me. I like this word right now. Right now it's action. Because I feel like we've talked about so much is happening in the world right now. So important. And, but it's, it's nothing that it, nothing changes without action. We can talk all we want and talking and conversation, educating, listening is beyond, is so important. And I'm not discountinging that but figuring out ways to make take actionable steps to create change is in my in my mind the way that I can be the most useful I love it talk

about tame the beast yeah um kind of pairs perfectly with what we just talked about. So tame the beast grooming company that I got on board with last fall. I can't, I have zero concept of time anymore. Um, but it was primarily a male focused grooming company. Um, they wanted to start to transition more to unisex and brought me on board to help with that. Our core values is creating this, one, we want to revolutionize the shower experience by creating sustainable, eco-friendly options and making people rethink about the way that they purchase and stock their showers and their bathrooms and that sort of thing. And then on top of it, creating products that are high quality and, you know, they are intense in the sense of like they can make you feel good in your own skin. So a big draw for me was the sustainability focus, the eco-friendly direction that they were taking the company. I studied science, technology and society in school with a focus in environmental engineering. this was an opportunity to actually be part of creating the future I want to see in, in this is, which is like making decisions based on sustainability, eco-friendly products,

um, that sort of thing. So it's been awesome. And then on top of it, it's the unisex part, which is that in the grooming space, you have a grooming and beauty, you have sometimes, you know, it's one product is specifically marketed to women, product is specifically marketed to men. And in working with Tame the Beast, I've come to understand that like the, you might have the same, almost the exact same product, but the female marketed product is upcharged or uppriced, you know, multiple X amount. And it's just another instance of like, it's like, it's, they call it the pink tax basically, basically. Um, and so I was like, I care about making products that are

quality that, that people want to use and they work and not charging $200 for a face lotion. That's actually $5. It costs $5 to make, you know, like I've been part of the art, the research and development process where I'll send them products that I, that I've liked in the past and, and they get to, you know, they, they kind of break it down and, and look into them and, um, and they're like, well, this is the ingredient profile and, and it's actually $5. And I'm like, well, I'm an idiot for buying that. Awesome. Okay. And tame the beast.com. Is that right? Yeah. Yeah. You got a great vibe to it. A lot of energy behind the brand tone to it. Totally. Okay. So where can people follow you? Where can they be part of

your life pursuit and mission? Where do you want to send them? They can follow me on Instagram at Kelly O'Hara. They can follow me on Twitter. I don't think I've been on Twitter. I think I deleted Twitter during COVID because I was just like, it's too much. I don't need to be reading this every day. So I haven't been on Twitter for a bit, but it might get back on eventually. I am starting a podcast. I'm hosting a podcast for Just Women Sports, which is a digital first media company that is covering Just Women Sports. And yeah, going to be hosting a podcast that is kind of going to be like a how I built this, how I got here type of vibe explaining and giving you insight and a kind of behind the scenes look at how the biggest names in sports

have gotten to the level and the success that they have. And I've started recording with that and it's been really fun. I am a little bit out of my element, but I like a good challenge and I've really enjoyed the conversations and I've become even more of a sports fan from it. So I'm hoping people do. Yeah. It'll be, that'll be great. And it's, is it up now? Is it on all the players? Be launching. I think we're going to probably launch early July. Okay. Brilliant. Okay. Thank you. What a great conversation. Yeah. Thanks for having me on. My pleasure. Okay. So all the best to you so uh instagram uh podcast and um tame the beast yeah there you go all right thank you so much for diving into another episode of finding mastery

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