Finding Mastery with Dr. Michael Gervais - Sam Darnold, New York Jets Quarterback

Episode Date: April 30, 2018

This week’s conversation is with quarterback Sam Darnold on leadership, trust, and confidence.Sam was just selected by the New York Jets with the 3rd pick in this year's NFL Draft.Over the last two years, Sam has been one of the top college quarterbacks in the nation, playing at the University of Southern California.I’ve known Sam since he participated in the Elite 11 quarterback camp - which features the best of the best quarterbacks coming out of high school. It’s been incredible to see how far he’s come since then.You might know him as one of the best rookie quarterbacks, but this conversation shows a different side of him: insight, integrity, humility, and honesty.We discuss everything from his leadership style, why building strong relationships and trusting himself have been fundamental to his success, and how he’s managed the distractions that have come with his quick rise to fame._________________Subscribe to our Youtube Channel for more powerful conversations at the intersection of high performance, leadership, and meaning: https://www.youtube.com/c/FindingMasteryGet exclusive discounts and support our amazing sponsors! Go to: https://findingmastery.com/sponsors/Subscribe to the Finding Mastery newsletter for weekly high performance insights: https://www.findingmastery.com/newsletter Download Dr. Mike's Morning Mindset Routine! https://www.findingmastery.com/morningmindsetFollow us on Instagram, LinkedIn, and X.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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stay present and engaged with my thinking and writing. If you wanna slow down, if you wanna work smarter, I highly encourage you to check them out. Visit remarkable.com to learn more and grab your paper pro today. Before I took a snap at USC, I wasn't confident. You know, I was like, I had a bunch of doubts in my mind. Again, going, going back to negative, negative thoughts, negative self-talk. I was like, man, can I, can I even play at this level? These guys are fast. These guys are big. Am I really going to be able to perform at this high of a level? And now those thoughts have kind of moved and now it's professional and

it's kind of all happening over and over again. And I'm realizing that if I just continue to prepare and continue to train myself and my mind, I'm going to be set. All right. Welcome back or welcome to the Finding Mastery podcast. I'm Michael Gervais. And by trade and training, I'm a sport and performance psychologist, fortunate enough to work with some of the brightest thinkers and doers across the planet. And the whole idea about these conversations, this podcast, is to learn from people who are on the path of mastery, to better understand what they're searching for, to work

to understand their psychological framework, and then to reveal the mental skills that they've been using to build and refine their craft. Finding Mastery is brought to you by LinkedIn Sales Solutions. In any high-performing environment that I've been part of, from elite teams to executive boardrooms, one thing holds true. Meaningful relationships are at the center of sustained success. And building those relationships, it takes more than effort. It takes a real caring about your people. It takes the right tools, the right information at the right time. And that's where LinkedIn Sales Navigator can come in. It's a tool designed specifically for thoughtful sales professionals, helping you find the right people that are ready to engage, track key account changes,

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Stuart, you're still listening here. So getting enough protein matters. And that can't be understated, not just for strength, but for energy and focus, recovery, for longevity. And I love that David is making that easier. So if you're trying to hit your daily protein goals with something seamless, I'd love for you to go check them out. Get a free variety pack, a $25 value, and 10% off for life when you head to davidprotein.com slash finding mastery. That's David, D-A-V-I-D, protein, P-R-O-T-E-I-N.com slash finding mastery. All right. When was the last time that you knew that you were going to walk into an environment with alpha competitors, the best of the best of the best, some of the most dominant competitors in the world. And not only were you expected to fit in, but potentially lead. That's a cool thought now. I hope that all of us have had that chance to be able to walk into a room or know that you're about

to walk into an arena or an environment or a room where some of the brightest minds and the best doers in the world are looking to see what you understand, how you can help them with the mission that we're potentially going to all share together. And that's what this week's conversation is about. This week's conversation is pulling back the curtain on what it's like for one of the best in the world at his stage in his craft to walk into the next level. And so this is from college athletics into the pros, the NFL. So this week's conversation is with quarterback Sam Darnold. Sam was just selected by the New York Jets with the third overall pick in this year's NFL draft.

That is a major accomplishment. I mean, serious congratulations to Sam. And over the last two years, you might have recognized him as being one of the top quarterbacks in the nation, playing at the University of Southern California. I've had the chance to know Sam since he competed and participated in the Elite 11 quarterback camp. And that's a camp where the best of the best quarterbacks coming out of high school all compete to see who are the top 11. And it's been an incredible journey to see how far he's come to now.

And so you might know him, if you follow football, as one of the best rookie quarterbacks there is. But this conversation definitely shows a different side of him. It's about insight and integrity and humility and honesty. You don't get to see that stuff play out easily on the field, but this is the stuff that he's made of. And we discuss everything from his leadership style, how he's building that style as well, why building strong relationships in that process and being able to trust himself have been fundamental to his success, and how he's managed and is managing the internal and external

distractions that are coming with his quick rise to fame. So with that, let's jump right into this conversation with Sam Darnold. Sam, how are you? I'm good. Yeah. Good. Yeah. How are you?

Good. It's been a long time. I know. I know. It's been a while. Yeah. It's the last time I talked to you is on my podcast actually. So it's pretty cool to be in this chair and be in the position that I am right now.

Yeah. Congratulations on your body work. It was elite 11. Yeah. That's when I first met you. And was that five, four, five years? 2014. So four years ago.

Where did you rank? I know it sounds. 12th. I didn't make that's right oh my god that's awful no i didn't make the elite 11 but uh yeah i uh i talked to dill for a little bit about every time i can i'll i'll sneak it in there be like man you should have had me in there i know because now now look where you are right but maybe that works out in some kind of way yeah i think i mean shoot, you know, it's, I think that might've been something that added a little chip on my shoulder, but at the

same time, I think for me, it's never been about, you know, having something to be, you know, having something to push me and push me forward into doing what I do. Um, I do what I do. I work out every single day. I watch film because I love it and because I want to do it. And I think that's, and the moment I stop loving what I'm doing, I'll just stop. And I think that's, that's something that's really important. And that's something that guys like Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, all those guys talk about it. You know, what's phenomenal is that I would not, I remember you. I remember what we did at elite 11. And for folks that aren't familiar with elite 11, it's the top quarterbacks in the country

that come together and it's a competition. It's a few days where we go through like some, some good learning and some competition and I call it camp. It's some seal training too, which was not my favorite, but I remember, yeah, I remember you. Yeah. So, So you know what's amazing is that looking back, I would not have thought that you didn't make the 11 cut. Because you do leave a mark. I didn't say stain. You leave a mark. Do you get that from other people? What do you mean by that?

I mean that you take up energetically, psychologically, like you take up space and there's some people that are like shrinking violets and they walk into a room and leave a room and you don't really notice because they don't have a way about them. Yeah. And you, that's not you. Yeah. but other people other people would say I'm really shy because there's there's times when I walk into a certain scenario and let's say I didn't know you I haven't known you for four years like I would probably be more reserved I wouldn't say everything that was really on my mind and that's kind of who I am I like to and and Dilfer always talks about it. Coach Dilfer always talks about, um, you know, being a thermostat leader, um, something along those lines. I don't know exactly what,

you know, I haven't heard it for four years. You're setting the temperature in the room. Exactly. Right. That's, that's where exactly. And sometimes, honestly, I like to feel it out. I like to be able to gauge where people are at. Um, but other times, if I'm with people that I know, um, like the situation I'm in right now, talking to you. And then, other times if I'm with people that I know, um, like the situation I'm in right now talking to you. And then, um, if I'm just with a bunch of my friends hanging out, I'll, you know, I'll be able to lead kind of, um, I guess you could say the temperature in the room. I'd be able to, um, lead the conversation. I'd be able to, you know, crack a joke, you know, get everyone to feel a certain way. So, but other situations, you know, I think,

I think I'm a little bit different and, um, that is, that is different actually most. So if we were to do a random sample of, uh, folks, most people are not introverted. Most people are extroverted. And if we had a cartoon character of the two and extrovert has big lips and big hands, cause they're always moving their lips. That's how they're thinking. And big hands, cause they're always in the mix. They're always, you know, moving around from group to group. And an introvert, a cartoon character would be big ears and big eyes because they soak in information. They think about it, they mull it over, they pay attention to the words that they're about to say. And when they say it, they mean it.

Yep. And you, and that doesn't mean shy though. Yeah. That's just a way that we process information. And you definitely do have an introverted side to you. Definitely. I think I'm more introverted for sure. And you've embraced that. Yeah. And I grew up being really shy. Um, I know introverted doesn't necessarily mean shy, but I grew up really shy. Um, it is different now, especially for this model, this charismatic model of how we think quarterbacks are supposed to be or leaders of men or, you know, leaders of women in some, in some examples. So how have you done that? Um, in some regards, that's been kind of my, I guess my Achilles heel is trying to go into these 15 minute interviews with teams,

trying to explain to them why I'm going to be their franchise quarterback and why they can trust me with their job. And that's, that's something that I've really been trying to work on and being able to, um, articulate because it's, it's hard to do as an introvert. You're talking about one of the craziest job interviews in the world, which is the NFL combine, the scouting combine. And you just get a few minutes in a room with people that can make or break or deeply influence the next four years of your life. Yeah. A hundred percent. Okay. And you wouldn't know this. So let's go back to

introvert extrovert. We did some research around this with, um, what was it was NBA basketball. I think it was Dr. Christina Versari did the original research and she found that there was a particular type. Coaches were a particular type of personality profile and they tended to be introverted. Yeah. And then the stars ended up the stars, like the radical stars on teams ended up having a particular profile that was different than everybody else's. So what I'm suggesting to you is being different can be a massive asset. Right now, only when you embrace it and really are about it. Right. Yeah. And I, you know, that's, it's something that I think can also be articulated in one of those meetings. It's like, hey, I'm not this way. Every day you might not get this, but here's what needs to be said. And you need to know that I'm this, this, and this, and this is what you're going to win if you do pick me. And I think that's something that I've really been working on trying to articulate in these

conversations with teams because I do understand, you know, I obviously haven't been put in a position to make a tough decision that leaves, you know, my job on the line or anything like that. But I understand what they're feeling. You know, I've, you know, it's a tough decision. It's something that they have to live with. And if they don't get it right, they're probably, you know, their jobs are probably done. They're probably fired or, um, their families probably have to move. Um, their kids who have enjoyed being in the school that is in that city, they probably have to leave, leave all their friends

there. It's, it's a tough deal. And I'm aware of that. That's you are. And that's the downside. There's also an upside. Oh, a hundred percent. Yeah. I know there's an upside. It's just sometimes we, we always like to, we like to focus a little bit too much on, on the downside and yeah, I guess it's more focused on what might go wrong. Um, and then you just kind of hope for the best. Is that how you game plan? Yeah, a little bit. Are you just talking about game planning for games or let's go into like preparation. So obviously we can't control the outcome winning and losing. We can control the effort, the intensity, the quality of preparation going in to position ourselves well. So what is your process to position yourself to have the best potential outcome that you could have? Yeah, I think,

well, first of all, understanding the other team, understanding their best players, what coverages they like to run. Obviously, there's a little more in-depth conversation we can have about defenses, but that's just the main thing is really understanding who we might need to stay away from, who we might need to double team when we're passing. So first you do tendencies. Tendencies. Then you do personnel. Personnel. So what that means in my mind is that you identify the people that you can take advantage of or that are threats.

Yeah. It's both. Right. Okay. Yep. people that you can take advantage of or that are threats yeah it's both right okay yep so so looking at that and then um really just understanding what we do well um understanding what they do poorly and being able to have a really good combination of those two and put them in our game plan and be able to expose the other team for big plays. Are you, okay, that sounds like a thorough process. Right. Are you good at that?

Yeah, I think I'm really good at it. That makes sense to you? Yeah, it makes sense. And I think there is a ton of room to grow, though. I mean, when you talk about game planning for college versus the NFL, you know, it's a lot different. And at the Combine, know, it's a, it's a lot different. And at the combine, all the coaches were saying, well, you know, you led USC. Um, you guys were one in three and you came back. That's awesome. But how do you plan to do that in the NFL? And my straight up answer was,

I've never, I've never played in the NFL. I haven't played a snap. Um, yeah, I've talked to NFL guys who have done that, but until I experience it, I'm not going to know how to do it. And that's just the honest truth. Yeah, that's right. It sounds like you've got a lot of trust. You're like, I've put in the work I'm prepared. I want to be me. I, you know, you know what I'm getting? I was working with a, I won't name the person or the sport even but individual sport two-time world champion back to back phenomenal athlete and he says you know what I want to do I just want to be me I feel like like I'm in striking distance at any given point in time to be able to take the competition to be able to to win but I want to do it and be me. You have that same thread, don't you?

Yeah, a hundred percent. And it was interesting too. We've had, I don't know if you use Headspace at all, the app, or if you know what it is for sure. Um, but we, we had good conversations with, uh, Andy Pudicombe, the founder of it. And he has, he works with an athlete too. He's actually a track and field athlete. Um, and what he says before every single race, before he, um, you know, before he steps on the blocks is just let it happen. Um, cause obviously we're in control of what we can control, but anything other than that, especially, you know, a race, you know, you're not in, you're in control of everything that happens with your race, with your lane, but you're not. Not the other lanes around you.

No. There's two mindsets about, or the research would suggest there's two mindsets. Let it happen, which is an accelerant to flow state. Okay. And flow state is the most optimal state a human can be in. And the other is be clutch. Those are very different. Yeah.

And clutch is like extra volition, extra effort, extra intensity, like bite down, drop your hips, let it rip. And then flow state is like, okay, it's very different. It's like, I love the challenge. I love the risk. Let me get in sync. Right. Let me be on time with the moment. Where do you follow?

And it doesn't mean that you're just one or the other. There's times. Okay, let's go back to the Rose Bowl for you. Was that clutch or flow? I think a little bit of both. Maybe it was a struggle. I don't know, but it looked amazing. Yeah. I was definitely in the flow. Looking back on that game, there's been many other games where I've been in that state where it's just, you just feel it. Yeah. It just comes really natural. And was that, was that a career high for you? Was that a game that felt like, oh man, that's what, that's what it's about. Yeah. Uh, in terms of how to feel during a game,

I think that was definitely one of those games where, um, I had those clutch moments like you talked about, but I also let it happen. You know, when the defense is out there and I can't control what's going on, I just let it happen. More flow, more flow, more flow. Definitely. And then how do you describe just using that as a marker right now? Okay. Let me back up. Sport is a way to learn more about who we are and it's a training environment to learn how to become the man and woman that we want to be. Okay. I should say, or not and there. Okay. So that being said, what is the most optimal you? What is it like? That's a, that's a tough question. Um, you know, and I think I, you know, I listen, like I told you, I listened to the Damon Jodd podcast and, um, wasn't he good? Yeah. I think in the beginning when he talked about, if you're not able to state, you know, why, why you're here in three to five words is, you know, you don't, you don't for sure know why you're here or, you know, and going back to that Rose Bowl game, it was, it was flow. It was

100%. Just, I was feeling it. And then even when I did throw an interception or something bad did happen, it was right onto the next play. There wasn't any flinch because I realized how big the game was. And as athletes, I think, you know, especially when we're on when we're a part of a team and there's there's certain games where it's preseason games and then regular season games, playoffs and then championships. We all like to say we prepare the same for every single game. Every single game matters. And it does. But mentally, it's some games you're locked in, some games you aren't. Okay. I want to go underneath the surface.

And I think it's subconscious too. Okay. So there's two ways that we think about the games, Super Bowls, Olympics, whatever, right? And there's two approaches. And this is pretty well accepted in the field of sports psychology, less well accepted or understood by pop culture. Do you prepare for the Olympics like every other game? Let's use the Super Bowl in this case. Or do you prepare for it like it's the craziest media intense experience known to sport? Like which one do you do? And I'm not saying there's a right or wrong. I'm happy to share my approach. and i'm not saying there's a right or wrong i'm happy to share my approach but i'm not saying there's a right or wrong i think in consistency i

think consistency is very important though right so just can you say that uh question again i'm sorry because it was kind of it was kind of loaded um are you asking like no i didn't want it to be loaded i wanted to know which which way you see it is every game the same or do you see it as the craziest big time event that's going to take place yeah and you got to prepare for that i'm going to be honest um no no no no yeah the first couple games you know of the season it's like you're really trying to find your identity as a team. And those games are really, really important. I mean, we look back to our last season, my last season at SC, we didn't have a bye the whole season. And so the first couple games, we're trying to find our identity. We play Western Michigan, we play, in my opinion, pretty bad.

We get away with a win. And then we play Stanford, who's kind of turned into our rival in the last few years. And then we play Texas, which obviously, you know, that's become a rival. There's a history there, I guess. So those are pretty big games. And we ended up being 3-0 after those three weeks. And then the next few weeks is really interesting because without having a bye the whole season, as a player, you think about, okay, maybe I shouldn't, maybe I should treat this week as almost a bye week. But, you know, game plan wise, you don't. But treating your body and rehabbing and doing all the stuff you need to do, you kind of

treat some weeks as bi-weeks. And you try to get, you know, as rested as you can. And I think going into those games, when you do kind of lay low that whole week, you're a little less prepared than you would be if you treated every week the same. Yeah, that's the trap. Yeah, exactly. you would be if you treat it every week the same. Yeah. That's the trap. That's the inconsistency is that you think that you had a peak for some moments, but you're not right for the moments that you've devalued. And I don't know, for me, I'm going to share my point of view now. I'm all about each play each game as if it's the last game. Everything matters. The way you do small

things is the way you do all things. And so to pay attention to mastering the process to be on point and on time and in, in your own skin in the right way, in every moment of life, like it's like a very much a Zen path, right? But sports, a great way to figure it out. Yeah. Finding mastery is brought to you by momentous. When it comes to high performance, whether you're leading a team, raising a family, pushing physical limits, or simply trying to be better today than you were yesterday, what you put in your body matters.

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at FelixGray.com for 20% off. So when you go underneath the surface, you do some film study and then you've got some rehab, you got some strength training. What do you do on the mental side for preparation? Yeah, I have been using Headspace a little bit just to be able to collect my thoughts.

And even when I don't use it, I think it's really good for me in the morning and before I go to bed. Right when I wake up, I make sure that I, you know, whether it's just laying in my bed for five minutes, just thinking about the day or not thinking about anything at all, you know, just kind of letting my mind wander and think about whatever it needs to think about. Um, I think is really important. How long have you been meditating? Um, not long, not long. Uh, I hadn't done it previously. You know, I've, I've probably been doing it for three months now. Have you noticed anything? Like, is it? Yeah. Yeah. What are you noticing? I noticed a lot more energy throughout the day because I honestly, I couldn't tell you why. There's good science, but it doesn't matter at some point. Exactly. I mean,

just being, and I don't even think about it as meditating. And, um, I think a lot of people, which is, I think a lot of people get lost in the translation. You know, when you say meditating, I think a lot of people think of that as, you know, crossing your legs and being like in your element or whatever that is. With meditation music in the background, it's for me. There's baggage with that word. Yeah, exactly. And for me, it's just kind of chilling and just like realizing that nothing else is going on. I can just let my mind wander. It just really sets the tone for the day.

And then at night when I do it again, it lets my mind wander. And then I'm able to fall asleep easier because I've already thought about everything that might keep me up and I've just kind of brushed it off. and, um, a really good way that Andy kind of talks about it. Andy Pudicombe, he talks about it as, you know, cars and traffic, whether you're going to go out in traffic and, you know, risk being hit by a car, just let the cars pass. And that's kind of your thoughts just going past and letting your thoughts pass. And yeah, every, every once in a while, it's good to acknowledge some of those thoughts and, um, why you're having them. Um, but at the same time, there's, there's a lot of those thoughts, like negative thoughts that you really don't want to pay

attention to. It just don't serve enough, you know, quality, you know, they don't serve up enough quality. Okay. On that note, what do you, how are you thinking about the NFL? Yeah. You've already addressed, like I haven't been there. I haven't taken a snap, so I don't really know. And I love that.

I really love that approach because to play or pretend like you know what it's about, that's a little phony. Yeah. Cause you don't everyone, everyone on the field, there's a saying that one of the coaches up at the Seahawks says, and it's awesome.

He says, on the field there's a saying that one of the coaches up at the seahawk says and it's awesome he says you've got to be extraordinary in the nfl just to suck yeah in other words everyone there is like amazing like like really talented okay so you've got this ability to find windows narrow windows and throw right into them how do you do do that? Cause that's what you're going to need to do in the next level. Yeah. The windows get more narrow and more narrow. I think it comes with, um, first of all, trusting yourself. Um, but then you really got to be able to develop a trust with your teammates and your coaches too, because, um, at the end of the day, um, I know that some, sometimes I'll be able to make audibles and call my own play, but at the end of the day, the coaches get the last say and they're calling the end of the day, I know that sometimes I'll be able to make audibles and call my own play. But at the end of the day, the coaches get the last say and they're calling the plays from the booth.

We got to roll with that play. We got to trust what the coach is telling us. And then I got to trust my teammates around me, especially when it's a pass play. I got to know that the protection's right. I can't see behind me. So I got to trust that my left tackle and the left guard are doing their job and I also got to trust that the receivers are running the right routes because in some in some drop back scenarios when we're passing I'm looking to the right and then I got to trust

that the guy on the left is running the right route because if I don't like what I'm seeing on the right then I can go back to the left and trust that he's going to be in the right spot at the right time. And I remember in 2016, in my first year playing at SC, we had this concept where it was, if it was one high, which means one high safety, I go to the right side. If it's two high safeties, I go to the left. And I started off on my right. And for those folks that don't know football safeties are the defensive players. Yeah yeah the defensive players that are in the high that are in the backfield exactly um in other words safety because they're the last resort yeah if you throw a pass exactly over them yeah yeah so i was looking at my right and realized that i needed to go to my left um and so when i looked over to my

right i literally i looked to my left but was throwing the ball at the same time because I knew if he was in the spot he was supposed to be, he was going to be open. And I threw it there and he was just waiting for me wide open and was able to run for another 20 yards and get a first down. So, but that's just one of the plays. That's a lot of trust. That's happened a lot of times too. How do you develop trust? First trust of self happened a lot of times too and how do you develop trust first trust of self and then trust of others yeah i think yeah i think first and foremost you got to trust yourself how do you do it though and you might not have an answer you yeah it's not an easy it's confidence

yeah it's it's definitely comes with confidence uh because i remember before i before I took a snap at USC, I wasn't confident. I had a bunch of doubts in my mind. Again, going back to negative thoughts, negative self-talk, I was like, man, can I even play at this level? These guys are fast. These guys are big. Am I really going to be able to perform at this high of a level? And now those thoughts have kind of moved and now it's professional and it's kind of all happening over and over again. And I'm realizing that if I just continue to prepare and continue to train myself in my mind,

I'm going to be set. There you go. Yeah, that's really, it is. So you're honest with yourself. I don't know if I have what it takes, but if I keep preparing, I'll figure it out. Yeah, exactly. And I think, I think also trusting that process and not, not getting bored with it because it can become boring when you're in, when you're in the room watching film by yourself for, you know, the 14th day in a row and you haven't really taken a break and it can, it can seem very boring and, um, you know, throwing a hitch route, which is, you know, again, for those that don't know, football is basically like a really easy throw, um, just throwing to a guy that's basically standing there, but it's a throw that is really, really, um, you know, happens a lot in football. And if you get bored with throwing

those routes to guys versus air versus nobody, then all of a sudden those easy throws become a lot harder in games. Um, so I think not be not becoming bored with the process and really trusting it, um, is another thing that's very important to me. Okay. So then how do you learn how to trust others? So trusting of self comes from confidence. Confidence comes from putting in the hard work and being aware of your inner dialogue and then being sharp on a regular basis. That's part of how you're doing it. And then how do you trust others? I think first and foremost, it's being able to spend time away from the game with those people, being able to build relationships. I think the key words relationships, um, with those people,

because if you can do that, then, then you can tell them if they're right or they're wrong. Cause as a quarterback, you gotta be able to tell people right from wrong. You know, you're, we're running the show out there on the field, but I think it's very important to build relationships before you can start trusting. Um, it's brilliant. The neuroscience of trust is really interesting. So what ends up happening to our brains is when we look across a room or wherever we are with another person and we look at them and our brain is trying to suss out,

how is this environment dangerous or is it safe? Like we're trying to figure out how to survive. It's always happening underneath consciousness, if you will. And when we look at another person and they are agitated or scared or nervous, that sends a signal to us. Well, maybe they've sensed that something's going to go wrong. So maybe now I need to sense what's going on. So if you lack confidence, you have lots of self-doubt or worry or anxiousness or frustration, you send signals to others. And so the neuroscience is pretty cool because people that have higher trust in others also have another neurochemical called oxytocin. I was talking about something else. Oxytocin. So oxytocin isytocin i was talking about something else oxytocin so oxytocin is released when we feel connected to other people right yeah so that does you're okay spot on when you're grounded

and you're clear you send signals to other people that okay we're all right yeah let's go and i think i think also um going back to the conversation about being introverted and extroverted i think it's really really important as a leader, because that's what you are as a quarterback. You're a leader. Whether you want to be or whether you don't want to be, you have to be a leader. And if you don't want to be a leader as a quarterback,

then you're not going to have a very long career. And I think for guys who don't like to talk to other people as much or guys who are introverted, I guess, that can be hard. It can be hard to go into a locker room and have a bunch of energy and talk to your teammates. To even want to do that is something that a lot of guys don't want to do. But if you get to know your teammates and you become friends with your teammates, it becomes a lot easier to walk into a locker room and have fun. So I think building relationships with your teammates, but also going into a locker room.

Like for me, I'm 20 years old. I'm going to be going into a locker room with 35-year-old men who have kids and who have wives. They have families that they have to feed. It's like I don't quite understand that, I'm not at that level yet, but I can definitely still have a relationship with that person. Um, what a great insight. So instead of, instead of thinking like, I'm going to come in here and I'm going to show, and I'm going to, yeah, it's, it's just a different maturity that they have over me. And I know that, but it's, it's something that

at one day, I hope, I hope to have a family and one day I'm going to understand it. But until that happens, I'm going to have an open mind and I'm going to go in open-minded and, um, I'm just going to be ready for whatever, you know, whatever comes my way and continue to have a positive mindset. Cause I think that's where it all starts as well too. Awesome. I mean, what a great thoughtful insight. And what did your parents do right? What, you know, I mean, it's really thoughtful. What did they do? Right. They let me figure things out. Um,

I think that's the biggest thing is, you know, having, having parents who are going to be there for you and have your back at all times. But at the same time, if you're, if you're in a tough situation, is having parents who are going to be there for you and have your back at all times, but at the same time, if you're in a tough situation, you've got to learn to get yourself out of it. There's a fine line between being a helicopter parent and a parent that lets his kid do whatever he wants or she wants. I think it's very interesting,

and there's, you know, there's a lot of different ways to parent. Um, so it's, I don't know if I'm in the right place to be talking about parenting. I'm, you know, again, 20 years old, but you've been parents, you know, so that being said, um, what is the time that comes to your mind when you think about like a really sticky time that was hard for you that you figured some stuff out? I think one of the, one of the tough times that I had was, um, it was my junior year of high school. Um, and long story short, my, my good, my good friend, um, who, um, I didn't play high school football with because he was a few years older than me, but the whole community loved him.

I had a bunch of conversations with him. He grew up in the same community as me. He ended up passing away in a tragic car accident, and that was really hard for me. And that happened a week before our rival football game. It was like, okay, we're going to play for Nick. This game's for Nick, um, all this stuff. And then the second quarter of that game, I break my foot and I'm out for the rest of the year. And it's that, that was a really hard moment for me. And that was, that was something that, um, I had never, I had never experienced anything like that in my

whole life. And I was able to lean on my family. I think my parents were able to continue to keep me positive. Just say, hey, you're going to be okay. The surgery went really good. You're going to come back from this. And then also having great friends to be able to joke around with, just be kids. Do you remember the moment that you broke it? Yeah. Yeah. And so for people haven't broke a bone yet, what is that like? And what was it like for you? It was weird. It was really weird. I,

I thought I rolled my ankle at first. I really did. And I got back to the sideline and usually when I roll my ankles, cause it happens all the time when you play did and I got back to the sideline and usually when I roll my ankles um because it happens all the time when you play basketball and I loved playing basketball growing up um I was easily able to walk it off um so I was trying to walk it off and on the sideline and I was like man this pain's just not going away what's going on um and then I went and played another drive um and I was like dude this this thing's just killing me I don't know what's going on? And then I went and played another drive. And I was like, dude, this thing's just killing me. I don't know what's going on. And then that was right before halftime.

I went in halftime and the team doctor was like, yeah, you broke your foot. We're going to go to the hospital right now, get x-rays and confirm it. But yeah, it's definitely broken. And the interesting thing about breaking a bone, which I've heard from a ton of people is you go into shock, um, and you don't, you don't know what happened really. Um, again, sometimes it's really obvious, you know, your bones sticking out of your body, but, uh, other times it's like, Oh, you know, I rolled my ankle and, but, uh, yeah, it's an interesting feeling. I hope I never break a bone ever again. You are in a combat sport. I hope you don't either, but you're in a combat.

It might happen again. What did you learn about going? Is that your only injury or have you had others? I separated my AC joint in my shoulder my senior year of high school. That's really it. I didn't have any injuries in college. Yeah, i'm more interested in what you've learned from going through a difficult time and maybe you say it wasn't difficult it sounds like it was yeah you know but like what do you learn about yourself because you can't learn the real stuff without going through some difficult stuff yeah um i learned that i wasn't going to be a basketball player um because i started to gain some weight when I, when I broke my foot and, um, didn't know how to handle it at first again. Uh, but yeah, I, I gained some weight and realized when I got healthy that I needed to, you know, do a, do a ton of cardio workout a lot. Um, and so I got, I got back on it. Um, I had a really good senior year,

but I think the most important thing, um, is having the right mindset. And I think at that young age, it came from my parents, definitely. Just, you know, whenever, whenever my foot was hurting, they weren't, they weren't like, Oh, like, what do I need to do to make it better? It was more of, okay, the doctor said you need to do this, this, and this, just keep doing that. If it hurts, it hurts, but it's going to be better. Just trust the process. And I think that kind of goes back to what we were talking about earlier. Um, but it's really just about, you know, for me, it's, um, I've always thought about stuff whenever something's bad, I always think about how it can be worse. And I think that's what I always think about.

Wait, say that again. When it's bad, you think when things are bad, you think that it could be worse, which is a funky little way of being like optimistic. Like it's not that bad is what you get to say. Yeah. And I don't know if you've seen the video with Jocko Willink. It's called Good. Like, yeah, he says like Willink. It's called Good. Yeah, he says every time something bad happens, good, because it's another way to get better.

And I think just without even knowing how to articulate it before, that really was my mindset. And I think that's something that my dad really instilled in me as a kid. What's it like to be a student athlete in a top university, being a quarterback? Like, what is it like? How tall are you? Six? Like 6'3". I got measured at 6'3". At the combine. You gave me a look like that.

Yeah. I was disappointed. I thought I was taller. Okay. My dad actually just told me he was like, he got measured at like 6'2 flat at the doctors and he's always been like 6'4. Oh. So he's shrinking and he's pissed about it.

So maybe I am too already. So it happened. Okay. All right. So what is it like? I mean, you're walking around campus. Yeah. And you're doing amazing things on the field.

It's a big sport campus, you campus, USC, University of Southern California. Yeah, it's fun. It's fun to be an athlete. It's fun to be the quarterback, all that stuff. But at the same time, it can be really tiring. And if you let that get to your head, because anytime someone asks for a picture, anytime someone asks for an autograph, I do it. because I think about the times when especially little kids this yeah especially

little kids I gotta anytime someone asks me for an autograph a picture I have to do it because I just remember the time when I was when I was a kid asking for someone's autograph and remembering when they turn it down it's like the worst feeling in the world. But now, kind of going to the next level, when you have – sometimes if you go to an event where there's 100 kids waiting for your autograph, it's like impossible to get every single one done. I'm going to try, but sometimes it's just – especially when you've got to bounce and you've got to go somewhere. How have you dealt with, okay. So when I was in college, I was not the star quarterback in an

elite sporting university. Okay. So no, I was not. So how have you dealt? And I make that point, not because it's not about me, but because we didn't have social media. So how have you dealt with the normal stuff of being a elite performer in a fishbowl and then the added stuff about social media? And I'm asking like as a, as a 40 some year old, I'm asking like, what's it like to be a 20 some year old with the, a completely game changing technology. And you might say, what are you talking about like say teach me like really teach me what it's like yeah it's um you gotta be it's funny because i got i got instagram when i was a sophomore in high school and there were no boundaries for me you know i wasn't being recruited there was nothing going on in my life i could just post whatever i wanted to whatever my

friends you know whatever i thought my friends thought were funny, I was going to post. Oh, boy. And so, yeah, when I started getting recruited by teams like USC, delete, delete, delete, delete, like every single post that was remotely bad. And I didn't even have that many posts that were bad. But it was just like I had to delete some of the weird posts that many posts that were bad, but it was just like, I had to delete some of the weird posts, um, that my friends thought were funny. And, um, it's just a different world. Um, you really got to think about some of the, you got to think about, you know, if you post this, what is your mom going to say when she, when she sees it? That's something that is that your filter?

Yeah. I mean, now it's, now it's a little bit different cause literally everyone sees it. Um, but I think that was, that's kinda, and I remember, I forget who told me, or I saw some YouTube video and, um, I think it might've been Herm Edwards, even like on ESPN, he was talking about someone who posted something that was, it was just a dumb post and it got out and everyone was talking about someone who posted something that was it was just a dumb post and it got out and everyone was talking about it for like a week or two and he was like he like looked at the camera and was like you guys just think about you know what you're actually saying in that tweet in your Instagram you know the Facebook post whatever it is and just think about if your

mom saw it what would she think and how would she react? And if she says, Oh yeah, that's, that's really nice. Like that's cool. Then you can post it. But if she's, you know, if she wouldn't be very excited about you posting that, then you probably shouldn't do it. Great filter. Yeah. And I think it's a moral filter. Yeah. It's definitely representing if we're all fortunate enough to have a mom that represents goodness, that that's a great moral filter. Yeah. Social conscious, if you will.

Yeah. But it's, it's tricky with, it's tricky with social media. So let me ask you this in this conversation we're having right now, how much of you is, how much of you right now is coming from the marketing mind of Sam? And then how much is like is real Sam yeah and does that get confusing at any level for you well it's it's different I mean when you're to be honest when you're being interviewed and it's about to you know people are going to listen to it you got to really think about what you're going to say before you say it because everyone

and I'm I'm not very different when I'm around my friends, but I am a little bit different. And I'm honestly, I'm going to say some things a little bit different than I would if I was being interviewed. So it's just kind of a different mentality that you have to have. What is the degrees of variance there? Like, let's say slang. Slang is the biggest thing. OK, you know, some of the some of the words I use with my friends would be a little bit different. More aggressive? More silly? Silly. I think silly, yeah.

Silly. Sometimes if we're joking around with my buddy and calling him a loser, making fun of him for doing something, it can be aggressive. But, you know, that's just kind of who we are. Your career in his mind. Yeah, we're ruthless to our know, that's just kind of who we are. Uh, yeah, we're, we're ruthless to our friends and my friends are ruthless to me. So, um, I think also that's, that's a part of keeping our heads on straight, keeping my head on straight is having a friend group that we're able to joke around with. Um, but if we get out of line, then they're able to straighten us out. It's a funny thing that happens in a lot of cultures. And I don't know if it's

male or female. I don't know what it's like to be a female, but in happens in a lot of cultures and i don't know if it's male or female i don't know what it's like to be a female but in in predominant male cultures if you get cracked on and if you get made fun of and if you get i don't know yeah i guess those two things is an easy way to think about it you're accepted you're part of it but if there's a formality where you have to be serious and intense and always with people i'm not saying that's wrong but there's a formality where you have to be serious and intense and always with people, I'm not saying that's wrong, but there's a boundary there that almost isn't one of the team. Right. And I think also if you're polar opposites, like if you have to be one way with the media and then you're a completely different way with your friend group, then something's going to get caught up. Something's going to get caught up. Something's going to get caught up.

Yeah, for sure. It's too hard. It's very hard. Yeah. When you say, when I say the word authenticity, how close are you to that? Um, in what way? Like, are you, are you Sam? Yeah. Yeah. And then you're like, yes, of course. And then are you Sam in all of your environments? Yeah. Yeah. And are you, you're, you're a close version of yourself in every environment you're in. Yeah. Dinner party versus, um, hanging out in the dorms versus here right now. Yeah. I'm the same.

I've heard that from some of our mutual friends. Yeah. No, I'm, I mean, I think, honestly, I just think it would be exhausting to try to put on a different hat and, you think, honestly, I just think it would be exhausting to try to put on a different hat in different scenarios. I love that. And when I say, who is Sam? How do you answer that? I've been getting that question a lot in interviews with teams.

And the best way I can describe it is, you know, the same. The same everywhere I go. I'm very relaxed. Um, but when, when something needs to get, when something needs to be done, I'm able to get it done and I know how to get it done. Um, it's just, you know, I think the most important thing to me is if you ask anyone that knows me, whether it's a coach who's, you know, whether it's a coach, whether it's someone who hasn't spent a ton of time with me, a teammate, a really close friend of mine, my mom, my dad, they would all kind of say something similar. And I think that's, um, that's the

most important thing to me is to be able to have those people, um, whether they're close to me, whether they're not to be able to say remotely the same thing. Nice work. You, you are really even keel. Yeah. Right. And that feels like it's an asset for you. It's just way easier. Finding Mastery is brought to you by Cozy Earth. Over the years, I've learned that recovery doesn't just happen when we sleep. It starts with how we transition and wind down. And that's why I've built intentional routines into the way that I close my day. And Cozy Earth has become a new part of that. Their bedding, it's incredibly soft, like next level soft. And what surprised me the most is how much it actually helps regulate temperature. I tend to run warm at night and these sheets have

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able to have a hand warmer on the field when i'm not playing i'll be heating my hands somehow like it's just we have all the tools now all the technology to be able to feel like we're playing in 75 and sunny when it's really 12. You know what I've learned? So there's a, you know what wayfinding is? I don't know if you know what that is. It's a way of navigating the ocean without instruments. I should say without advanced technology.

That wayfinders, when they go launch, oftentimes they'll pray for rugged waters. They're not praying for calm waters. They're praying for rugged seas because that's where they figure out what they're really made of. 100%. Yeah. And if you can go through the rugged seas and everyone else is turning back, you've got space. You've separated, you know, in a good way from the noise. When I say the noise, meaning all the other people, you know, and whatever.

So I grew up here in Southern California surfing. And one of the ways that we would, I don't know, almost look for competitive advantage is when it's raining. And you see people do a funny thing when it rains and that's mild weather. Rain is mild weather, but it's a little annoying. It's people like duck their head down and they tuck their chin in a little bit and start to squint. And it's only water. Yeah. But as soon as they're turtling into themselves like squinting, it's like, oh, I'm going to get a lot of waves off this guy. It's crazy.

Because like he's already struggling. Instead of just kind of being grounded. Yeah. Like put your shoulders up, put your shoulders back whatever your head up and focus on the thing yeah which is like the next wave or this wave or whatever and it's yeah and so even rain even rain will get people tripped up as opposed to like minus 12 degrees yeah 100 and it's it's weird too because um i just heard this story i'm sure you'd you'd love it i mean you probably heard it before but this guy who locked himself in the freezer and this is a new story. It's new. Yeah. Okay. I haven't heard this.

Oh, you haven't heard it. Oh, okay. Um, but yeah, this guy, he was working at this, whatever it is, like a meat market or something and, or maybe it was just a restaurant, but he ended up locking himself in the freezer. He was working the late night shift and he locked himself in the freezer and it, he was like freezing. He, he wrote down everything that he was feeling. Um, he's like, Oh, fingers are starting to go numb. Toes are starting to go numb. And you know, a few hours passed by, he's like, Oh, whole body's shivering. Um, starting to lose consciousness, all that stuff. And the next day, you know, he had been in there for 10 hours or eight hours or 10 hours or so. And they had realized when they, and he died, he had died and, um, had froze to death. It's a great story. And yeah, it's getting there,

but, uh, no, but, and then they found him and they had realized that before he had even locked himself in the freezer, it had broke the freezer broke and it was at 50 degrees the whole time he had been in there. Oh, come on. And he had just psyched himself out that bad that he had felt like he was freezing. And it's a really interesting story because, you know, it's, it's just the power of the mind and it's, it's crazy what it can do. And And you know, he, he had wrote down all this stuff like, Oh, my fingers are going numb. Toes are going numb. My whole body's starting to shut down. And it was at 50 degrees the whole time. Have you ever had a moment like that where you thought something was what it's not? It was colder than it was. It was bigger than it was. It was more

intense than it was. And you freak yourself out. Definitely. Is there something that comes to mind to articulate it? I think even just the other day I was going in the ocean to use it as an ice bath, honestly, on my legs because we had a hard leg day workout. And I use the ocean as an ice bath and it was freezing. It's cold right now. The waves were kind of choppy. It was a little windy out. It was actually raining. it was like misting. It wasn't necessarily raining, but you were squinting with my head down. Yeah. And, uh, and I was just freezing cold. And, and then I, I got back inside, I took a hot shower and I put some clothes on and then I had to go

back outside for something to go back to my car. And it wasn't, it was like, it was like 70 degrees. It was raining a little bit, but not really. And it was just, just because I think the ocean was so cold that it had tripped me out. And I thought the water, you know, the, the rain was the same temperature as the water that I was in. And I, it was just, it was a weird feeling. And it was, I was just thinking about all the, you know, psychological things that were going on because I am more aware of that stuff. Um, you are, you are aware, aren't you? Like you, you think about and feel things. Are you more of a thinker or feeler? What does that even mean? I don't even know. Do you follow, do you feel and take action based on that?

Everyone thinks and feels. Yeah. Or do you think about things and take action from there? Another way to ask it is do you do what you think is right or do you do what you feel is right? What is louder inside of you? I think feel, which I think the same thing is going with your gut I think I do that a lot obviously I like to think a lot before I do things that's kind of that's the whole like what introverts do they just like to think and process

everything before they take action but I think for me I like to really go with my gut and process information that way. Where does pressure come from? It can come from the outside, you know, the noise. I think a lot of people get psyched out that way. Another way, you know, pressure comes is, again, like we talked about in the beginning, just trying to perform for others. And when you're not performing for yourself, I think that's when people can get caught up in pressure. And

that's when they feel it the most. So for you, is there a word that or phrase that guides you in the choices you make the words you choose the the actions you take? I don't know if there's one word, but, you know, I definitely, you know, I don't know. That's a good question. Uh, I definitely think, I think just going back to what I said before, I think trust is a big thing for me. I've, you know, I think being able to trust yourself and having confidence in yourself is huge. But I think another one that my dad, a phrase that my dad used to always tell us, me and my sister, he always used to tell us, treat others the way you want to be treated. And I think that just goes along with showing respect and respecting anyone,

you know, whatever respect and respecting anyone, you know, whether, whatever their job is. And I think, um, it's just at this point in my life, because of the way I was raised by my dad, you know, by my mom and my dad, it's just become so natural for me to show respect to others and to just be really comfortable in the skin, in my own skin. So I think that's, those are the two most important things for me is treating others the way I want to be treated and, um, which is showing others respect and then just having confidence in myself. This, this is going to be a hard question. Yeah. And this question, I don't, I'm not sure what to expect. Like I have no idea what anybody will say, but I'm not sure what you would say, because

in many ways, you're really early on the path of mastery. You just finished up college. You know, you're early on it. That being said, if we look back in history, there's been extraordinary people at the age of 23, 25, they've done amazing things across the world. So I want to ask you the question, how do you think about mastery? I thought about it, you know, before, you know, a week in advance, I was, I was really thinking about how I would answer this question. And I remember a couple of weeks ago, I was watching Matt McConaughey's speech at the Grammys, or not the Grammys, the Oscars.

And he was talking about, you know, who's his role model. And his role model is himself 10 years in the future. You know, he's, and then 10 years down the road, he met his role model. Now his role model is him 10 years in the future again. And it's just, I think that mindset is really, I think what I'm chasing. I'm really trying to be the best person I can be in 10 years. But again, I don't think until, you know, we've reached a certain point, like I don't even think Tom Brady's, you know, I think he's really, you know, the closest we can get to mastering the craft

when it comes to being a quarterback in football. But I don't even think he's got it. I don't think anyone can really completely understand what it takes to be a master. Because if someone completely understood how to define mastery, I guess, then they would just tell everyone and we all know the secret. So I don't think there is one. And so many people have said very closely articulated what you said, which is, I don't know if there, if I don't know if it ever really happens,

right. But it's the path. It's the adventure of it. It's the journey of it, right. It's the figuring it out. How do I become the best version of me? Are you more interested in being the best version of you or the best? Uh, best version of myself. Yeah. Okay. Sam, this is awesome. Yeah. Is that just to go back on that? Are there, is there a common denominator with, in terms of the type of people that want to be the best version of themselves or the best regardless? I'm finding that it's probably, without doing the hard math yet, and we're going to run all of these conversations through the right filters, I think it's probably at this point an 80-20 split.

80% are saying, no, no, no, I'm not trying to be the best. I'm trying to be my best day in and day out. And for most of those 80% of people, they are the best or one of the best i'm trying to be my best yeah day in and day out and for most of those 80 of people they are the best or one of the best because i think if if you're trying to be the best version of yourself and that just so happens to be the best then that's what it is but if it isn't the best that's what you know and that's also what it is that's also what it is what else can you do exactly there's a two-time olympian two-time medalist that says to me all the time what else is there other than trying to be your best like what what else is there yeah there's uh there's

not much you know unless you're again unless you're a part of a team there's there's not much else to to want is to just be the best version of yourself. And the best version of yourself, you know, whatever that is, is completely up to that person. And I think that's kind of the beauty of it, too. I love that. And I like to add one thought to that in my own head is that what is the purpose of trying to be my best for you to be your best? I think one ends up taking place. And there's two ways I think about it. One is when you are at your best, you're going to take care of other people. Same with me,

right? Like when we're at our, our highest self, whatever that version is that we're there for other people. Right. And so the stitch is I'm going to compete. I'm going to work. I'm going to, I'm going to put in the hard yards to figure out what my potential is so that I can do the same for others. And now we've got this rising tide that floats all boats. Right. Yeah. And so super simple coming from a team sport athlete, not as simple for entrepreneurs or, you know, family members get it a little bit easier than maybe business folks, but it, it works in every domain. I think. Yeah. Yeah. A hundred percent. Awesome. Awesome. Yeah. Thanks for having me on. It was sweet. Thank you. Where can we find what you're doing, what you're up to? Where's the best places for people to follow your journey through Instagram? Probably. What is it? Just at Sam Darnold at S A M D A R N O L D. Yeah.

Very cool. And your podcast is coming back up? Yeah, I think we're going to try to figure it out. But you had a first one that was a fantastic series. Everyone can check that out. It's a Season of Sam podcast. You and Yogi Roth. With Yogi Roth. Yeah, Yogi's been awesome.

We've been having some conversations about starting it back up. So hopefully we can get that done. Um, but I'm definitely not in a hurry to do that. Um, cause I got some other things to worry about right now. So here comes the NFL. Yeah. Here comes that train. I'm excited though.

Yeah. Really good. Okay, good. And for everyone, thank you for being part of this conversation with us. And I, you know, say, I just hope that you're, we captured your essence in a, in a, in the right way. And there's so much that you have to say and do, and you're early on the path of figuring things out in the NFL, but I hope we captured it in an honest way for you.

Yeah. I think, I think we did. Yeah. I think it was a good, um, kind of a good snippet of what I'm about. But again, I don't think anyone can truly figure out who someone is until they spend a lot of, a lot of good time with them. All right. So everyone else, thank you again. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you. And you can find us on finding mastery.net. And then on social media is at Michael Gervais. That's on Twitter and at finding mastery on Instagram and then at Michael Gervais on LinkedIn. So thank you and punch over to make sure you check out what Sam's doing and best success to Sam. Thank you. Appreciate it.

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