Finding Mastery with Dr. Michael Gervais - Seattle Seahawks General Manager on Talent, Teamwork, and Tough Conversations | John Schneider

Episode Date: April 30, 2025

What does it take to build one of the most respected teams in the NFL — and lead it with heart, grit, and humility?This episode is a special one. Recorded right in the heart of Seahawks territory in Seattle, I got to sit down with my friend, John Schneider, General Manager of the Seattle Seahawks.John has spent over a decade helping to build one of the NFL’s most competitive and consistent franchises—leading through authenticity, values, and a deep commitment to excellence. Having worked closely with John for nine seasons, including two unforgettable trips to the Super Bowl—I can share that he leads from the front. Nothing contrived, nothing manufactured. He leads by being himself and by caring about his teammates. What you’re going to hear in this conversation is a masterclass in leadership — grounded in football and deeply relevant to life. We talk about how John developed his values growing up in rural Wisconsin, the work ethic he learned from his dad, and the toughness he inherited from his mom. He shares how faith and humility anchor his decision-making, even when the pressure’s on and the spotlight’s bright. As you listen, I invite you to reflect on how you respond when things don’t go as planned. And how might a clearer, more values-driven approach shift the way you lead—in sport, in work, and even at home?Let’s dive in with the GM of the Seattle Seahawks, John Schneider. __________________Links From the Show...Ben's Fund. They help people with autism reach their full potential through financial aid and access to support services. https://www.bensfund.org/_________________Subscribe to our Youtube Channel for more powerful conversations at the intersection of high performance, leadership, and meaning: https://www.youtube.com/c/FindingMasteryGet exclusive discounts and support our amazing sponsors! Go to: https://findingmastery.com/sponsors/Subscribe to the Finding Mastery newsletter for weekly high performance insights: https://www.findingmastery.com/newsletter Download Dr. Mike's Morning Mindset Routine! https://www.findingmastery.com/morningmindsetFollow us on Instagram, LinkedIn, and X.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Finding Mastery is brought to you by Remarkable. In a world that's full of distractions, focused thinking is becoming a rare skill and a massive competitive advantage. That's why I've been using the Remarkable Paper Pro, a digital notebook designed to help you think clearly and work deliberately. It's not another device filled with notifications or apps.

It's intentionally built for deep work. So there's no social media, no email, no noise. The writing experience, it feels just like pen on paper. I love it. And it has the intelligence of digital tools like converting your handwriting to text, organizing your notes, tagging files, and using productivity templates

to help you be more effective. It is sleek, minimal. It's incredibly lightweight. It feels really good. I take it with me anywhere from meetings to travel without missing a beat. What I love most is that it doesn't try to do everything. It just helps me do one very important thing really well,

stay present and engaged with my thinking and writing. If you wanna slow down, if you wanna work smarter, I highly encourage you to check them out. Visit remarkable.com to learn more and grab your paper pro today. My leadership style is, it's definitely the vision. Everybody's going to be going for this vision

like every single day. There's no end line. We're always communicating. We never ever think we have the answers. If you think you have the answers, it's really, we're going to have a really hard time working together.

What does it take to consistently build and lead one of the most respected teams in professional sports? Welcome back, or welcome to the Finding Mastery Podcast, where we dive into the minds of the world's greatest thinkers and doers. I am your host, Dr. Michael Gervais, by trade and training, a high-performance psychologist. This week, recorded right in the heart of Seahawks territory in Seattle,

I got to sit down with my friend, John Schneider, general manager of the Seattle Seahawks. John has spent over a decade helping to build one of the NFL's most consistent and competitive franchises, blending grit, humility, and an honest commitment to excellence. We tell everybody in the whole operation, when you get in the car in the morning, what are you thinking about? Like, how are you improving the organization? Because we feel great about you. It's a reciprocal thing. Having worked closely with John for nine seasons, including two unforgettable trips to the Super Bowl, he's just great. There's nothing contrived. There's nothing manufactured about John. He leads by being himself, by caring about his teammates, and it's wonderful.

I want the fans to know we're going to bust our ass every single day. We're doing whatever we possibly can for them. Now, as you listen, I want to invite you to reflect on how you respond when things don't go as planned. This is a big part of mastery and excellence is having the ability to pivot, to adjust, to eloquently respond when things aren't going the way that you thought they would go. What are you doing every day to let ownership, fans know that we're getting better? So let's dive in with my friend, the GM of the Seattle Seahawks, John Schneider. All right. So this is a fun conversation for a lot of reasons.

One is my respect for you. Same. Thank you. Ditto. Two is we're friends. And we've been able to be shoulder to shoulder on a lot. And so I just love this conversation. There's no chance that we will be able to do justice to two things.

One is how much we laugh, how hard we work together, the jams we've gotten out of together, and your genius. Okay. Go down, Sheriff. So, all right. There's 32 jobs in the world that are general managers in the National Football League. You hold one of them. And you've been doing it for a long time. So when I think about that, there's 32 jobs.

When you set out as a youngster and you thought that you wanted to be in the NFL and you wanted to be a general manager, there's only 32 jobs in the world. You're here and you're flat out bringing it. You know, this is a, this is a world-class organization. So can we start at the beginning and talk about like how you were shaping your future and just kind of where you came from and what the breakfast table and dinner table was like, like, take us back to the beginning. Yeah, absolutely. Well, thanks for having me on. Yeah. So thought a lot about, I mean,

thought a little bit what we're going to talk about, you know, the leadership, how does it go and how do we, how do we start everything and like the foundations of it? Like what, what brings you back to who you are and how you get to where you are. And that really truly started with, you know, with my parents. My parents were very strong, are, I think, are still with us. Grew up in rural Green Bay, Wisconsin.

What does that mean to somebody that lives, like, out of the country? Yeah. It's, I don't want, it's not, it's farmland, but it's homes spread out. Like, you know, it's, I didn't grow up on a farm, but I grew up on, you know, my dad built a house, like on four acres out in the country. And, um, yeah, my dad was, my dad was raised in, both my mom and dad were raised in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. My dad was raised in the South side and, and, uh, uh, his father was an immigrant, was a crane engineer, came from Germany, built cranes for P&H and, you know, instilled this like really strong like work ethic for my dad. And my dad started working, you know, digging ditches when he was like, you know, 12, 13 years old.

So we had this really strong work ethic. My father, my mom did as well. But I think really, you know, my dad ended up being a, you know, a self-made, like I said, it's like really, truly like self-made, very successful orthopod and started his own practice in Green Bay. And he had one year, I think it was like 1987 or 1988, where he did like the most total hips in the country and was flying around giving these presentations and everything. But he built his own practice in Green Bay bay and i'm the youngest of six and so

my mom was like you know when you build your own practice you're basically sitting at the emergency room waiting for people to come in to take care of them right and uh so i think that you know the things that like you know growing up like that seeing my parents like my dad being gone all the time my mom being as strong as she was. We're Catholic, very, very strong faith. My dad was very much like, you're not going to be hanging out at the country club. He did not want to raise his kids like, I hate i hate to say like a typical doctor's child or something like that so it's basically like we're growing up we're gonna grow up in the country i

have four acres and y'all are gonna like work your tails off and you know so i always tell people the two biggest gifts my parents gave me were my faith my work ethic and i always felt like you know uh i struggled in the classroom with add or. I don't know what it was. High school or earlier? Earlier. Earlier. There were certain things I was interested in. How did that shape you?

It shaped me just from a work ethic standpoint. Like, okay, what am I focused on? And, like, trying to really accentuate the things that I was trying to get really good at the things I was good at. Okay, this is important because I'm imagining when I'm in grade school or let's go to grade school for a minute, and you're smart. So I don't know if you knew that at the time, but having this feedback loop like, oh, I don't get it like he does or she does can create another narrative, which is like, well, maybe I should just keep my mouth shut. Maybe I should skip school. don't get it like he does or she does right and create another narrative which is like well maybe

I should just keep my mouth shut maybe I should skip school maybe I should so be a clown be an angel maybe I should do other things and what you ended up doing it sounds like you said oh it's not coming easy so I'm gonna work hard I'm gonna work hard but in a different manner so I was I was kind of a I was the guy that was chatty in class. My, my buddy's still telling me that all the time, like, you know,

but I had a hard time concentrating. But the work ethic part of it was really like, what am I, what am I, what am I, what am I good at? I was like, good at is the,

is being an athlete and like having that vision for yourself, like, like, like envisioning yourself, like, you know, catching balls, scoring touchdowns, beating people, like, like like like envisioning yourself like you know catching balls scoring touchdowns beating people like like like high performance really i guess looking back

at it yeah and i was by myself a lot um the youngest of six and like i said like really like working literally like working my tail off all the time it literally took me like three or four days to get like all the my yard work done like you know it was like my mama come out and like you know make sure all the trees are any pine cones underneath all the trees and stuff i'm talking like maybe about 200 some trees too this isn't like you know so it was like a very very like uh you know strict disciplined like whatever whatever you're you know you have you have work. I had to like work harder at other things. And then when I got to, when I got to college and found out like, you know,

I wasn't going to be cause we didn't have the internet back then. Right. So it's like, you know, I, you know, I thought I was gonna be Walter Payton, you know, like I'm going to go to, I didn't get recruited. So I'll go to vision three school and like, they'll give me the ball all the time. Well, I got to, I got to say Thomas and like the guy that was starting like three guys ahead of me was like the guy that was starting like three guys ahead of me was like the nation's like all-time all-purpose you know yardage guy that year in like division three and um yeah i just was one of those guys had a bad attitude and like

fucked my coaches a little bit got behind on the sticks and really had to kind of really had to like find myself which came back to like faith and work ethic and and I kind of really stumbled into like I wanted a coach I wanted to influence young men and then this this came along which I didn't I didn't recognize at the time but you know Ron Wolf had been hired in Green Bay and I read an article about him he had worked for Al Davis and he was a army Al Davis is a legendary owner in the NFL yeah and Ron was the GM yeah and and Ron yeah so Ron had worked with him and was an intern for him I didn't know that thing that that existed he was he was a

history major yeah he was a history major as well and I was like wow if he if he could do that maybe that's a path I could head down and rewind a little bit. When I was getting in trouble in school or I wasn't studying, I wasn't watching TV. I was like studying football cards and like making teams and stuff. So my mom and dad would take away my football cards. How old were you? I don't know, like fifth, sixth, seventh grade, something like that. Oh, my goodness.

So like memorizing numbers. My son does that same thing. That's cool. I'm kind of flipping out, right? Because I actually, like, I watch him do what he does, and I'm like, wow, this is a little much. You know, like, he's still doing it. And not with the cards right now, but, like,

you could ask him any question right now. He loves the art of general management, managing. And so that's cool. I'm stoked. Does he do like the like like like my son that was like you know the mad like building a team yeah yeah yeah ea sports has kind of changed the game for these kids yeah think about personnel yeah i was like studying you were doing numbers and yeah yeah and then when i found out how important like the numbers and the

studying and like how important that was to Ron I Like my wife Tracy, you know She would she would quiz me we'd be by like the um, the big like football, you know, like tops cards. Yeah racks Yeah, right. Yeah. Yep, and I would literally like sit there and like she'd quiz me like okay Who's Harry Galbraith and like he's a left Garver, Tennessee You know came out Tennessee play for my place from Miami. He's number 64. Because I knew if I ever had an opportunity to interview, I was writing Ron like letters at the time, like trying to get an internship. This is legendary is that you knew you wanted to do something.

You saw someone that looked kind of like you, which was a history major. And then there was this thing called an internship that you were like, well, what is that? And then you took it upon yourself to write him a letter. Right. And so basically it was like, give me a shot. You know, can I work? Was it for free?

It was for $175 a week. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. But he basically, it was pretty cool because, you know, I got the standard letters back, you know, like, no, no, no. Oh, you were writing lots of letters.

Yeah. Yeah. I wrote about, I wrote one big one and it was like, hey, that was a cool letter. Now, I wrote him another one. He's like, okay, now you're scaring me.

Go away. Like one of those. Yeah, good. Okay. And then I, Finding Mastery is brought to you by LinkedIn Sales Solutions. In any high-performing environment

that I've been part of, from elite teams to executive boardrooms, one thing holds true. solutions in any high-performing environment that I've been part of, from elite teams to executive boardrooms. One thing holds true. Meaningful relationships are at the center of sustained success. And building those relationships, it takes more than effort. It takes a real caring about your people. It takes the right tools, the right information at the right time. And that's where LinkedIn Sales Navigator can come in. It's a tool designed specifically for thoughtful sales professionals, helping you

find the right people that are ready to engage, track key account changes, and connect with key decision makers more effectively. It surfaces real-time signals, like when someone changes jobs or when an account becomes high priority so that you can reach out at exactly the right moment with context and thoroughness that builds trust. It also helps tap into your own network more strategically, showing you who you already know that can help you open doors or make a warm introduction. In other words, it's not about more outreach. It's about smarter, more human outreach. And that's something here at Finding Mastery that our team lives and breathes by.

If you're ready to start building stronger relationships that actually convert, try LinkedIn Sales Navigator for free for 60 days at linkedin.com slash deal. That's linkedin.com slash deal. That's linkedin.com slash deal. For two full months for free, terms and conditions apply. Finding Mastery is brought to you by David Protein. I'm pretty intentional about what I eat,

and the majority of my nutrition comes from whole foods. And when I'm traveling or in between meals, on a demanding day certainly, I need something quick that will support the way that I feel and think and perform. And that's why I've been leaning on David Protein Bars. And so has the team here at Finding Mastery. In fact, our GM, Stuart, he loves them so much. I just want to kind of quickly put him on the spot.

Stuart, I know you're listening. I think you might be the reason that we're running out of these bars so quickly. They're incredible, Mike. I love them. One a day, one a day. What do you mean one a day? There's way more than that happening here. Don't tell. Okay. All right. Look, they're incredibly simple. They're effective. 28 grams of protein, just 150 calories and zero grams of sugar. It's rare to find something that fits so conveniently into a performance-based lifestyle and actually tastes good. Dr. Peter Attia, someone who's been on the show, it's a great episode, by the way, is also their chief science officer. So I know they've done their due diligence in that category.

My favorite flavor right now is the chocolate chip cookie dough. And a few of our teammates here at Finding Mastery have been loving the fudge brownie and peanut butter. I know, Stuart, you're still listening here. So getting enough protein matters. And that can't be understated, not just for strength, but for energy and focus, recovery, for longevity. And I love that David is making that easier. So if you're trying to hit your daily protein goals with something seamless, I'd love for you to go check them out. Get a free variety pack, a $25 value and 10% off for life when you head to davidprotein.com slash finding mastery. That's David, D-A-V-I-D, protein, P-R-O-T-E-I-N.com slash finding mastery.

Yeah, Memorial Day weekend, I was camping with Boneymine. And he's like, you know, there was an article, I guess, in the paper in Green Bay. He's like, yeah, Bob Harlan, the president, and Ron take pride in just picking up their own phones and answering people's, think about that. I would never, ever do that now, right? Yeah, right. phones and like answering people's think about that like I would never ever do that now right yeah right and and so I got his phone number and I called him on a Sunday Memorial Day weekend it was probably like 1991 1992 and he picked up and he's like yeah I know who you I know who you are like because you're the weirdo yeah you need to go away son you, son. I'm regretting giving out my phone number. And he basically said, hey, well, how long a drive is it?

I'm like, it's five hours. I can be there in four. I will haul ass to get there. And he's like, all right, well, come on down. We'll see where it goes. And so I came down. I drove down. I drove down on Monday, and I interviewed with him on Tuesday.

Yeah. So what? Okay, so here's what I'm hearing. You had a vision, you had an idea. And then you kept chipping away at it. So you didn't take no, you didn't take defeat, if you will, or rejection. Personally, you kept finding a way to chip away chip away at like getting a little bit closer yeah i just yeah i just felt like you know the faith part of it was really strong i was like i need to keep praying

like like i really really really want this to happen and i really did have a vision because like a vision of of to to be and it sounds weird but the super bowl was in minneapolis the redskins had played buffalo i was working for a company called Sky Tracker, where the lights go like this, and I set up outside of the Super Bowl for the commissioner's party. And I was sitting there like, I was like, oh, that's Charlie Casserly. That's Bill Pauly, and that's, you know, and Tracy was with me. And she's like, I'm like, no, these guys are like,

and I wonder if, like, I could ever, you know, do something like they're doing. It's so cool. And I'm, like, trying to explain to her, like, what they do. And so, like, that's kind of like I really was, like, into it and praying a lot on it. And then it came to fruition to get the interview. I went to the interview, and, yeah, it was, know it was it was it was pretty it's pretty scary so I always had like a natural kind of like leadership so I was like the kid that was like trying to get yeah all the

other guys out to play football and you know hey it's time to go work out and you know it's time to go run what do you think he saw in you 30 some years ago I don't know he's really intimidating very intimidating leader. Very much top-down. We still talk about it today. He's a top-down leader. Which is not your approach. No. Is that because you didn't like how it felt to be in a

top-down? How do you describe your leadership style? My leadership style is definitely the vision, humility, style yeah so you want to oh my leadership style is it's definitely like the provision division humility uh you know working that professional passion the it's part of the jim collins yeah right like you know work like it's up to you you know pray like it's up to god and like we're

gonna have a vision and like everybody's gonna be like going for this vision like every single day and there's no there's no end line and we're always we're always communicating we're never we never ever think we have the answers if you if you think you have the answers it's really we're gonna have a really hard time working together you know was it gus bradley who said the most dangerous he was one of the defensive coordinators at the seahawks he said the most dangerous words in the NFL is, I got this coach. Which is funny because like, you kind of want somebody to say, I got it. Yeah. But he was pointing to like, I got it. I got it. I got it. Like this. I know it all. I got it all. You know,

where you don't, you don't, you definitely embrace hard work you definitely embrace um using your imagination to see a better future and um 100 you are like a peer leader like yeah so so with like appreciate you saying that but it's like you know so we always we always felt like ron had us like he's got us like you you guys you know you you do this, this, and this. I'm going to tell you what to do, and you do your job, and you better do a damn good job. But you always felt like he was so strong that he's got us. You know what I mean?

Yeah, right. I want that, like, my vision for it is like, hey, I got you. I'm strong enough. I got you. But, like, we're writing this thing, like, to your point, like more of a peer. and like it's like a circle and you know we're taking everybody's opinions and we're like gonna like the draft for instance we're going through the draft process right now we're take all this information in we're gonna make the best decisions possible but no matter

what we're still gonna have to help these guys when they come through the door we still don't have the personality licked or the background of the you know what i mean yeah we're still going to have to help these guys when they come through the door, we still don't have the personality licked or the background of the, you know what I mean? Yeah. We're constantly, guys are constantly changing. We're, I don't want to skip too far ahead to the draft process because,

um, I mean, I loved watching you work and how you would bring the team together. Like you harvest insights. You, you pull from everybody. What do you think? What do you think? What do you think? And it's open debate until almost the last minute. Right. You know? And so some are pretty clear and some are a little bit, you know, whatever, but

it, it was, it's remarkable how much information you want to absorb and you want everybody to hear so that you can make an informed critical decision. And that's, you only acquire that amount of information by hard work and then a, the ability to discern what's noise and what signal, what do I value? Yeah, you're right. Yeah.

Yeah. You're on it. That's a, yep. Yeah. Like what's evaluating the evaluators too. You're doing that. Yep. Yep. So before we get into the evaluators, too. You're doing that. Yep.

So before we get into the draft and talent identification piece, let's just go back to the breakfast table for a minute. Dad wasn't at the breakfast table? Yeah, early. He was at the breakfast table. Yep, yep. He'd be up. Not at the dinner table?

Sometimes, yeah. But it was mostly mom? Yeah, mostly mom. She was running the— Brothers and sisters there yeah yep brother sisters younger six so yeah two girls boy two girls boy i kind of i always kind of had it always like it was like kind of you like they were they were running they were older than me yeah yeah yep so my high school years like eighth grade through high school i was just my

folks and I. Yeah. That's yeah. Yeah. Okay. So mostly, mostly you and your mom. And my dad at that point,

you know what I mean? He was pretty much established. Yeah. Slow down on the traveling. Okay. Yeah. So that was, it was, it was,

yeah, that point getting ready, close to retirement. Okay, cool. Yeah. What is the, if your dad was here and you looked him in the eyes and you said,

dad, I want to thank you for one thing. What is that? Uh, the gift here and you looked him in the eyes and you said, dad, I want to thank you for one thing. What is that? The gift of faith and work ethic. Okay. Your mom was here. Can't say the same thing. Can't say the same thing.

Really? Oh, man. Oh, toughness. Whoa, mom gave you toughness. Yeah, my mom was, yeah, like the direct conversations. Let's go. Let's let it rip. So you are direct.

And there's a tone that comes with it, though. There's a directness. You're not kind of mincing your words, but there's a care that's embedded in it. Like when I'm on the other side of the conversations with you, you're really clear, very direct, and I feel like you understand what it's like to be me in that conversation. The empathy portion is right, where you have to try to

slow your roll a little bit and and i do you know i think everybody struggles with that but i do like throughout like some of my confrontations you know like if you let that go too long if you let the negativity go too long and don't have those conversations you know and you leave it under the table and don't address it right away that's where I can get a little jacked up. So if you, because you don't want to confront or because it's just, it's just tricky. It's tricky. It's easier to be like, oh, I don't work itself out. Yep.

And then, but you really are feeling slighted or I don't know what the thing might be. Yeah. Take your stuff personal. And then also now you're in it. Yeah. And you can, you could bite. Yeah. You can be a little bit more biting then. That's it. Like biting than like thinking about having just a little bit more empathy with your tone.

Yeah, that's it. And I can, yeah, I can struggle with my tone a little bit like it's that self-talk about how do you make this person try to understand that you understand where they're coming from? That's exactly it. And I hear you. I care what you're saying. I understand your point of view. but that's not my job. My job is to do what's best for the organization, period, point blank. Yeah, so maybe we just kind of navigate over to that piece

because you defined a general manager. What does a general manager do? Because I'm going to ask you a question about managing talent. And it's really like not to be confused with what a head coach does or an assistant coach does but you you identify them and then you're cutting the contract so there's a management it's a very personal thing contracting so describe what a general yeah so that's why coaches the best you know the best coach is a guy as a coach the coach is coach and they have to get in front of the team every day,

provide the vision. The relationships every single day that they have to navigate is immense. In our role, we don't have to do that. You know, the majority of us grow up scouting, evaluating. Watching. Watching and taking, yes, taking a step back. And at a very young age, I was, you know, I was blessed to be in that world with, you know,

Ron Wolfe and Coach Holmgren. And Coach Holmgren's staff was Andy Reid and Dick Geron and Greg Blash and Ray Rhodes and Marty Mornowick and Sherm. These are world-class coaches. Yeah, and I didn't know it. These guys, I just knew they were amazing. These were assistant coaches. Yeah, they were assistant coaches. And it was really like a master's class at that point.

How old were you at that time? I was 21, 22. Yeah, and both my bosses, Ron Wolfe and Ted Thompson, loved going out in college and doing the college scouting. And so I was in the office with Coach Holmberg and all his coaches and the trainers and the doctors. So I was just naturally around it. I didn't know any different.

So there's guys that are really good evaluators that come into a building to the headquarters and have a hard time like evaluating all the people. There's so many. There's some of the ground secure guys, the equipment people, you know, you've been around so much. There's so many people. So, yes, you're evaluating football players, but you're also evaluating the orthopods and the trainers. This is in a natural fashion. Yeah, right. So the way that you, maybe we do a framework here.

So that's what a general manager is doing. But like concretely, you are identifying talent. You are creating a vision for the football organization, right? And then matching that with the head coach. Matching that with the head coach. And then working hand-in-hand with the head coach. Yep. And then making sure that we're sticking with our vision.

And then we're not getting off kilter. You're also managing the contracts. Like you're writing contracts and you're managing the P&L. And you're reporting up to ownership. Right. Okay. So that's a handful of a job. This, this is a high pressure, high stress position to be an organization. Yeah. I listened to one of your podcasts and the gentleman's like, you know, we, you know, we need to have way more, you know, mindfulness in the building and, you know, you'll go to bed early and you know take care take care better

care of yourself i'm like well we're we're kind of just ripping and running all the time i'm not sure when that happens but congratulations that sounds outstanding to me it's like holy cow but i love the part where he's just talking about you know maybe we need to take naps i'm exaggerating you know like nobody like holy cow this would be great no it's it's really a push you know i tell people all the time nothing, nothing has changed since, I mean, a lot has changed, but philosophically, since Pete and I walked in the door here in 2010. Head coach Pete Carroll.

Sorry, yeah. Where, you know, look, we're just trying to do it better than everybody else like every single day. And we're like. So that phrase matters. We're going to try to do it better than it's ever been done before. And so you operationalize that. I know I lived it with you.

Like that was a daily pursuit and it comes in the smallest little ways. Like how great can we be at custodian service? How great can we be at lawn care? I don't, I know. We tell everybody in the whole operation, entire team. What do you, what do you, yeah. Like right words. We tell everybody in the whole operation. Entire team. When you get in the car in the morning,

what are you thinking about? How are you improving the organization? And when you put your head on the pillow, I hope you feel good about what you did for the organization today. Because we feel great about you. It's a reciprocal thing. You did that really early for me is that it was,

I don't know, first probably, it was actually probably at the beginning of the second year. And, um, I'll, I'll never forget the, the, you went out of your way to have a conversation with me about inclusion. And so you went out of your way to say hey listen i just want to make sure you know that you're part of the fabric here and like like we love i love having you here you know something along those lines it probably wasn't exactly that but the word fabric amazing that's pretty good yeah that's pretty good well performance well no my memory is actually not so good but all memories all is too big of a word but when there's an emotional content um snapped to the actual experience memory is

able to be recalled much easier and that was an emotional moment for me awesome yeah like and i don't mean emotional like oh my gosh like i'm gonna fall apart but like yeah like yeah oh this is acceptance just acceptance like yeah it's cool we're all in this we're all in this together like yeah we're either all we're gonna yeah is that amazing that you probably i don't think i've ever told you that but it's amazing how far some seemingly maybe throwaway comments i don't know if you thought about what you're gonna say or if it's kind of off the cuff but how far that goes that 14 years later i still know that's really cool yeah i'm glad that that just happened to me the other night i was i have a close buddy of mine that i work with it's like uh there's a movie a movie quote where the guy's like hey you deserve it man like

but he says in a sarcastic manner yeah so i'll be like hey i'm gonna rip out of here and go take tracy to dinner or something to be like well well, you deserve it. You know, I'll still be here working, that sort of thing. And this young man was walking out the other night and I was like, how was your weekend? He was like, oh, great. I went down to Los Angeles. I go, well, you deserve it. And he goes, hey, thanks a lot. I was being sarcastic, but, you know, I hope you feel good about yourself. Finding Mastery is brought to you by Momentous.

When it comes to high performance, whether you're leading a team, raising a family, pushing physical limits, or simply trying to be better today than you were yesterday, what you put in your body matters. And that's why I trust Momentous. From the moment I sat down with Jeff Byers, their co-founder and CEO, I could tell this was not your average supplement company. And I was immediately drawn to their mission, helping people achieve performance for life. And to do that, they developed what they call the Momentus Standard. Every product is formulated with top experts and every batch is third-party tested. NSF certified for sport or informed sport. So you know exactly what you're getting.

Personally, I'm anchored by what they call the Momentus 3. Protein, creatine, and omega-3. And together, these foundational nutrients support muscle recovery, brain function, and long-term energy. They're part of my daily routine. And if you're ready to fuel your brain and body with the best momentous has a great new offer just for our community right here use the code finding mastery for 35 off your first subscription order at live momentous.com again that's l-i-v-e momentous m-o-m-e-n-t-O-U-S livemomentous.com and use the code Finding Mastery

for 35% off your first subscription order. Finding Mastery is brought to you by Felix Gray. I spend a lot of time thinking about how we can create the conditions for high performance. How do we protect our ability to focus,

to recover, to be present? And one of the biggest challenges we face today is our sheer amount of screen time. It messes with our sleep, to recover, to be present. And one of the biggest challenges we face today is our sheer amount of screen time. It messes with our sleep, our clarity, even our mood. And that's why I've been using Felix Gray glasses. What I appreciate most about Felix Gray is that they're just not another wellness product. They're rooted in real science. Developed alongside leading researchers and ophthalmologists, they've demonstrated these types of glasses boost melatonin,

help you fall asleep faster, and hit deeper stages of rest. When I'm on the road and bouncing around between time zones, slipping on my Felix Grays in the evening, it's a simple way to cue my body just to wind down. And when I'm locked into deep work, they also help me stay focused for longer without digital fatigue creeping in. Plus, they look great. Clean, clear, no funky color distortion.

Just good design, great science. And if you're ready to feel the difference for yourself, Felix Gray is offering all Finding Mastery listeners 20% off. Just head to FelixGray.com and use the code FINDINGMASTERY20 at checkout. Again, that's Felix Gray. You spell it F-E-L-I-X-G-R-A-Y.com and use the code FINDINGMASTERY20 at felixgray.com for 20% off. The team at Finding Mastery,

we only hire forward-facing, they're Olympians or sports psychologists. And so there's a deep appreciation for getting it done in the amphitheater performance to be at finding mastery. And not everybody's an Olympian just to be clear, but there's a lot of banter about movies. And I'll tell you, I say it all the time and you come up because you are the best at like one

liners about movies. And my, well, the ones that are our generation. Our generation, yeah. But I say this all the time, which is to them, which is like, this is the great fear in any locker room I've ever been in because damn it, I can't remember any of them.

That's funny. It's really funny. That's funny. It's terrible. Let me go back. Do things better than you've ever been done before. Give me a couple others, first principles that have been materially important for you. Yeah, so very important when Pete Carroll and I came together that, you know,

it was, okay, what's important to you? Pete was like, I always compete. Do it better than anybody's ever done it before. Awesome. Mine was for the fans. Like, right, growing up a Packerer fan i always want to know what the packers were doing every day to get better because i never saw a winning football team the whole time i grew up until i was actually like working for them and then we like won a playoff game

in like 93 years it was not that it was not that but i always wanted to know like what they were doing over there so i always had this this, like, connection wherever I was, whether it was, you know, the Redskins or the Chiefs or here or whatever. Like, I want the fans to know we're, like, going to bust our ass every single day. We're doing it every week possible we can for them. So what does that mean? That means consistent championship caliber football team.

You're always in it. Let's break that apart. This is really important. Consistent championship caliber football team. The fans know that you're always going to always in it. Let's break that apart. This is really important. Consistent championship caliber football team. The fans know that you're always going to be in it. If you're not in it, you're just pushing. You're right there. And you've chosen those words

purposefully. Consistent championship caliber football team. And open that up because that is not you declaring this is a winning organization. You're saying that we are striving for consistent um excellence if champions yeah right like so when you operationalize that and you make that real how does that come to life in this organization it's basically like we we

want what are you doing every day to let ownership, fans, know that we're getting better? We're trying to be ahead of the curve. Now, it doesn't always bounce your way, right, wherever it goes, but it doesn't stop. But that's why the word caliber, consistent championship caliber. Caliber, right. So you're right. Stay in the pocket.

The fans know every day that, like, we're going to have a team that's, like, not going to be, like, win two games or three games or something like that. Yeah, cool. Yeah, like, we're not, like, trying to get a certain draft pick or, you know, like, tank or, you know, like, there's, you've seen it, like, the NBA that, you know, they'll get to a certain point, they'll be like,

ah, let's just trade our assets. And, you know. Yeah, let's take a lower record. Yeah, try to get in the lottery. Yeah, so we can get a better draft. It's a natural, I just, it's to me, that's just unacceptable. And so with that, you know,

you said those four core tenets, right? And then mine was just like the hedgehog thing, like keep it simple, stupid, which is plan communicate work plan communicate work like we're gonna plan we gotta over communicate and then we're just gonna outwork people because none of us are gonna walk into this like nobody's smarter than anybody else like you walk into the room and we're again like if if you feel like you're smarter than somebody else then then you and I are going to have a big problem working together.

Yeah, you have established that amongst your direct reports, that people feel like they can challenge you. They can say what's on their mind. They can bring whatever forward to the surface, bring whatever to the surface that they need to, and that you are not going to look at them sideways. You might, but like it's not, know like but you got to it's not intimidating threatening like man i can't step out of the way i you are encouraging people to bring their very best forward right so that and it doesn't mean it's gonna whatever they say is gonna be the thing no we're all in so we're all challenge challenge challenge challenge and then once we all make a decision like we're all in this thing now we're're all going to make it work. That's right. Yeah. We're not,

there's no looking back. So, so support then challenge, you know, your people really well, they know you. So there's a, there's a mechanism of support that is, that's present with your teammates.

How do you go about building that right level of support so that you can challenge each other? The authenticity of it is really like, Hey, we're going to, we're going to be, we're all going to be working our tails off. There's also an authenticity because this, this is a very humbling industry. When you, especially, you know, the acquisition, the draft, you know, it's, it's hard, you know, Mike, it's hard to like, no, it's truly in somebody's heart.

I know I'm, I'm, I'm on the record for like saying, I don't think we should take this one particular athlete. And he ended up being like one of the greats. I've missed a few times. Leave it alone. Yeah, right. But no, I mean, it's thinking about it like it's. And so when you, when we're all in there studying together,

say let's just leave it at scouting for now, okay? Not negotiating, not just acquisition. Talent identification. Just talent identification. When we have an intern or a second-year, first or second-year person that we're developing, and we're all in there studying together, and I say, look, I saw this.

I was there in October, you know, at the school studying, watching this player, and I screwed it up. I don't have this right. Or, man, we need to do way more work on this guy because, you know, this film here is off of what. So there's just a calming effect like okay it's okay to challenge them it's okay it's okay to challenge each other and we can all work through this thing together and that is your inoculation for groupthink because groupthink is one of the

great um diseases inside of talent identification or any any team really and you've worked really hard to go against, you know, the Gray Nub group thing. And the inoculation of that is make sure that everybody in the room can challenge everybody, including you. Yeah, and then look at the end of the day, okay, yes, it's my job to make the decision. But there's decisions that I've made where, you know,

I've listened to other people and we just went with it. And I'm like, okay, now I'm all in too now. I now i'm leading this thing yeah so you're going back to like decision mode um discuss decide and then take action and once you've made the decision we got to be in it together we're all in this thing together we're going to support them like crazy and this bit this this our our building the foundational people in our building ek uh mo kelly sam ramsden um you know like the sports science everybody's here to like david strick our trainers whatever we can do to help the individual get better we're going to do and you know i feel like you'll always be a big part like that was a big deal when you came here. Like, wow, there's a whole other level to helping an athlete.

Yeah. Thank you. Which, you know, I mean, Mr. Baumgartner is not with us right now. It would be cool.

Like, cause we all followed that. That was amazing. You know, like, I don't think I've ever talked about this is that it was one of a, it was like a highlight moment for me in my career is that some, um,

I'm part of the fabric here. Yeah. And then it was, we were all following it. Yeah. And then, but so the listener who might not know is that it's a, it's a,

I don't know. It's a large organization here, a hundred alpha competitors, you know, like some of them are athletes and some of them are coaches and some are staff supporting the athletes and coaches to be their best. And then, so I, I I'm here on almost all the games. And then there was one game I wasn't here. Um, well, in this case, I was at mission control with a supporting Felix Baumgartner, Red Bull Stratos, who was jumping,

yeah, jumping from 128,000 feet. And I got a picture. I don't know who sent it, but I'm in mission control with this person that I deeply care about who's risking everything for this feat. And you guys were all huddled around the TV on game day. Yeah, in EK's, in our equipment guy' office. Yeah, right, watching it. The live feed. Marshawn.

Marshawn's in there too, yeah. Yeah, it was fun. It was a big deal. Yeah, and so that was like I had this, and it just so happened that I think it was the first time that Russell Wilson was playing head-to-head against Tom Brady, or maybe the second time, I can't remember. It was a Patriots game, which was like, it was a good rivalry there.

That was probably a pretty cool feeling for you, too, and for the players to see that. Yeah. Because the coaching staff and support staff, that's automatic buy-in. Yeah, right. Players are a little bit like, eh. How's this guy going to help me?

Is he talking ownership? Is he talking to the head coach? Yeah, so that was a big moment for you on that. Like from a trust level. Yeah, it was. You gotta feel awesome about that. It was cool.

It was cool just to know that, um, this team here cared enough to tune in to watch this other project. Yeah. Yeah. That was awesome, dude. Um,

all right, go back to talent identification. When you're looking for talent, what are the key attributes you're looking for? Ooh, specifically for football now yeah so there's a lot of like just fundamental like football and then there's also evaluating evaluators who's going to be coaching the individual head coach style uh

culture right so our culture here is like this we're going for it like it's just like constant we're gonna have fun we're gonna work our tails off you better not have like thin skin you know we're gonna be constantly getting after it so there's a level of toughness mental toughness love of the game uh just pure passion work ethic uh the confidence uh and then just that you know that we wanted we still that we wanted but we did create a culture of swag like you know there was a lot of and these guys now grew up watching you know the legion of boom guys the legion of boom doesn't know, which is like one of the greatest ever. Yeah, we throw that out there. I'm sorry.

You and I are talking. It's like several Hall of Fame players. But it wasn't just those guys in the defensive backfield. It was Marshawn's approach. It was the quarterback's approach. It was our tight end's approach. Zach, it was like

Doug Baldwin, Golden Tate, Jermaine Kirsten. We had some guys approach it was our tight ends approach zach it was like we you know doug ball and golden tate jermaine curse we had some like uh uh you know golly uh brocco gia community we had these really tough it was a tough football team that was purposeful and we're we're uh we went through a phase here where we got off course a little bit because we, he's got that group of players, ended up being, we didn't make necessarily really tough, tough decisions to move on from some of those players. We paid them all, which we want to do that.

We want to keep everything together, try to keep winning championships, but then you suffer in other areas. You got to rob a computer to pay Paul because there's a salary cap in the National Football League. And so we kind of had to try to fit some other players that didn't really fit our mold

of the tough, gritty, swaggy, smart, tough, reliable, swaggy football players, I guess, is where we went off course a little bit. You're throwing those words around, but those are actually very succinct words. Finding Mastery is brought to you by Cozy Earth. Over the years, I've learned that recovery

doesn't just happen when we sleep. It starts with how we transition and wind down. And that's why I've built intentional routines into the way that I close my day. And Cozy Earth has become a new part of that. Their bedding, it's incredibly soft, like next level soft. And what surprised me the most is how much it actually helps regulate temperature. I tend to run warm at night and these sheets have helped me sleep cooler and

more consistently, which has made a meaningful difference in how I show up the next day for myself, my family, and our team here at Finding Mastery. It's become part of my nightly routine. Throw on their lounge pants or pajamas, crawl into bed under their sheets, and my nervous system starts to settle. They also offer a 100-night sleep trial and a 10-year warranty on all of their bedding, which tells me, tells you, that they believe in the long-term value of what they're creating. If you're ready to upgrade your rest and turn your bed into a better recovery zone, use the code FINDINGMASTERY for 40% off at CozyEarth.com. That's a great discount for our community. Again, the code is

FINDINGMASTERY for 40% off at CozyEarth.com. FINDINGMASTERY is brought to you by Caldera Lab. I believe that the way we do small things in life is how we do all things. And for me, that includes how I take care of my body. I've been using Caldera Lab for years now. And what keeps me coming back, it's really simple. Their products are simple and they reflect the kind of intentional living that I want to build into every part of my day. And they make my morning routine really easy. They've got some great new products I think you'll be interested in. A shampoo, conditioner, and a hair serum. With Caldera Lab, it's not about adding more. It's about choosing better. And when your day demands clarity and energy and presence, the way you prepare for it matters.

If you're looking for high-quality personal care products that elevate your routine without complicating it, I'd love for you to check them out. Head to calderalab.com slash findingmastery and use the code findingmastery at checkout for 20% off your first order. That's calderalab, C-A-L-D-E-R-L-A-B.com slash findingmastery. So I do want to come back to those words that you're looking for, for somebody to be elite. But what you just reminded me of is that I think this organization did a great job of preparing the

athletes to be successful and coach Carroll's extraordinary at showing somebody what they're capable of being and becoming it's like number one attribute I say all the time it's like oh he's so positive like his number one attribute is instill confidence in people because he shows them what they're capable of doing he shows them when it's going well that's exactly what... Do that more as opposed to that's not good enough. Look at your left foot. It's got the wrong kind of angle

on it. We've told you a hundred times you need to have this step, not that step. Come on. It's none of that. What's possible? What is possible? And you have the ability to do it. Now accentuate those strengths and we'll help you compensate for your deficiencies. We supported a group of men to become something very special, to be successful.

I don't think we prepare them to deal with failure. Good point. Yeah. And so my analysis is post-Super Bowl, the second Super Bowl, won one in dramatic fashion. It was a buzzsaw, if you will. The second one, we lost it in dramatic fashion. It was a last-minute heartbreaker. And there was a lot of pain around that loss.

I'd love to talk to you about this. Yeah, like there's a lot of pain. I don't think we taught them how to deal with failure, how to you about this. Yeah. Like there's a lot of pain. I don't think we taught them how to deal with failure, how to deal with loss. And so there was a deep pain that lasted, I think, three years. And in the three years we were managing that pain as opposed to like really getting on the front foot where noses and were pointed in the same direction. And so that was, that was my take of that, that phase. Yeah. I think you're, I think, I think you're right with that assessment. I think it was, it was, uh, it was kind of just, you know,

putting in some kind of covering some gaps and kind of just getting through a little bit. That's right. Yeah. A lot of drama. And because when somebody, when a family member or a team member is in pain that pain becomes kind of the source of of the narrative and and we were managing that pain for about six guys like grief that's exactly it okay so um loss of a game doesn't occupy the left central part of the brain and then loss of life the right central part of the brain and then loss of life, the right central part of the brain.

It's the same center of the brain. Loss is loss. Yeah. And there was not just loss of a game for so many. It was loss of a future. It was loss of a dream. It was loss of like, you know, image, identity. It was like a big loss.

Yeah. It'll be a story with that group for a while. Yeah, that's right. And even more insidious was I think most people on the sidelines, not on the field, but on the sidelines in the entire stadium, thought that we were going to win that game. Don't count your chickens until they're hatched, you know, that analogy. And it was just a little too early so it was like a

double and the players thought we could win you know when a couple of them if we would have won that that's right and I will say I've always told people I thought coach Carol's best job his best job coaching was the next year getting over that grief it was hard and we still got to the divisional round that's right and you know everything you know, everything, you know, whatever, the drama, everything that went along with that game, and then the contracts that came up and people unhappy. You still went to the Super Bowl, highly successful.

And when that happens, everybody's, and it's great. But everybody, you know, wants to get paid everybody wants to get compensated on the second super bowl all of it all of it yeah all of it yeah right and and we went we did we did go for it but to your point uh you know we could have made some decisions in there that would have been really really hard but But we kept those guys together as long as we possibly could and then suffered in different areas of our team. Maybe too long. And I mean that for them, not for the Seahawks organization. And I would say for the Seahawks organization because it's

how do you compensate at other parts of your team? When you're paying certain areas you have to like be willing to okay well if we draft this guy a we better be right and b we better be willing to pay him we better be willing to develop him and you know we we you know i'm right there we all got off kilter a little bit you know i didn't make i made a couple decisions in the draft that was all about more about well if this guy has a contract coming up next year and he leaves and that guy may leave, then we should probably move this player up on the board, you know? And not necessarily getting the best talent,

but thinking cleverly two steps ahead that there might be a gap. Which is the opposite of our approach. I did not know that you were doing that. Yeah. Yeah. Like, what are we? We're, okay, like, let's not, let's not try to outsmart people. Yeah.

Right. Like, let's just do what we do and do it really good. And then, you know, we'll just, we'll just bring the best players in here. And then we'll figure out how to, you you know compensate for whatever we haven't addressed whether that's a whatever a pass rusher whatever the wherever we would have been off you know um let's go back to the super bowl the second super bowl the one we lost for a minute is that let's go back to the first one yeah the first one was a lot of fun i like that one a lot better great i'm actually i i've never said this out loud, you know, on a public way.

I'm really, looking back now, I'm really happy I got both of those experiences. Yeah, I would agree with you. From your perspective, I would say that I would like, we should have won that second one. I would like, yeah. I would have liked two in a row. You know what I mean? And then have a third one. That would be cool.

Yeah, I think it was. So what it taught me was. No, there's so many lessons. Oh, yeah. I get it, but. No, I don't want to take away the value of winning. Yeah. But there was a value in losing in that way.

I've never felt a locker room the way that it was three seconds after the game. I've never seen anything like that. Me neither. Broken walls, broken hands crying, screaming screaming, you know exactly who that was intense I saw every painful emotion

out of 10 out of 10 and then one athlete laughing yes, and I'm thinking to myself okay, I'm supposed to lead in a general fashion right here managing a general fashion right there how are you supposed you're not prepared for it. You're just trying to make people feel good. Like, as upset as I was, it's like, how am I supposed to make everybody feel good right now?

No, there's none of that. I tried. Did you? There was none of that. So what I was going to ask you is, I have lots of memories of, like, two or three minutes before the end of the game, you coming down in your suit, right? And you're kind of, you're there, right? On the field.

And, and I don't remember that. I don't remember your, you and I have an experience post that second Superbowl. I don't remember on the field where you were, what, what that was like, but can you just bring that to life? What was that like? I had the same feeling that I had in the NFC Championship game when we played the Packers. So it was the same thing.

I was down there. I'm, like, looking up at the top of the stadium thinking about, now we were driving, but we hadn't, this is the second Super Bowl against New England. We're down. We were down, and we're driving, but we really hadn't stopped in the second half of the game. We had some, you know, Cliff got hurt.

Lane got injured. We had a bunch of injuries, and they had our number in the second half. Like, they were getting after us offensively. So, even if we were to score, I mean, there was going to be about a minute something left. I remember that feeling. But also, when we came down for the, you have to come, just so people know, it's like people don't come down just like to be seen

on the sidelines. Like you have to get down by a certain time. Otherwise the elevators get stuck and you miss the game. That's right. Yeah. So anyway, we came down against Green Bay and, you know, we're going to lose the game. And, you know, we got an onside kick,

and we got a two-point conversion, and, like, things just went our way. But when I came down on the field, I was thinking to myself, okay, what am I going to tell this coach? What am I going to tell that player? What am I going to tell, how am I going to address Pete? How am I going to make him feel better about, how are we going to make everybody feel like it was a good season?

It's disappointing, but good season. Like, what are you saying to everybody? That's what I was thinking about. And then everything just started going our way. And it's like, holy cow, like, we might win this game. We got the onside kick. Yep. I mean, holy cow, we go to overtime.

Bang, like, what a crazy finish. So I encourage the listener to just go watch that game. Yeah, you can watch. The highlights of the fourth quarter of that game was like. Yeah. So what was that? I forget. I forget.

I mean, you got to think about it. Like, you can go on YouTube and watch it. What was the date? It was Green Bay, Seattle Seahawks. I had the same feeling I had at the end of the New England game, Super Bowl, as I did against Green Bay. Like, what am I going to say to everybody? You know, yeah, I'm bummed out, but I got to, you know,

I'm the leader. I got to make sure I'm there for everybody. And, you know, the Green Bay game got crazy at the end. We get the onside kick. Holy cow, we're going to the Super Bowl. New England, we're driving. You know, we're going down there, and I'm thinking, oh, my gosh, like Jermaine makes this crazy catch.

On his back. On his back, right in front of us. We're standing right next to each other. We're standing right next to each other. Right there. Yeah. Crazy catch, and then, you know, all that stuff happens. And then, you know, so I was thinking that the manner in which we lost was not, you know,

if you lose it where, you know, you score, they go down and score, there's a different feeling when your empathy level for everybody in the locker room is a little bit different than the manner in which we lost it. Got it. And so to go in there, to your point, you're're right to go in there to try to you know put your arms around people when they want to they just want to like beat the crap out of everybody yeah you know that that was really emotional you had we had to let that be what it needed to be yeah there's no guiding that there's no chance but i was right i tried but i wanted to to go to the moment that we

that the ball was turned over at the last second and there was um it was obvious the game was over what happened for you in that nanosecond oh uh probably the same feelings that everybody else did why who whose fault yeah the anger you know Whose fault? The anger, you know, just the, what are we doing? You know, like, just the, and when it's out of your control, every game, I'm like that, you know, it's just out of your control. Like, you get, you know, and I was upset. I want to know why. You know, but then, like, okay, you know, get it together.

Like, you need to be there for everybody like okay so yeah fake it you gotta fake it like okay is that what you did yep yeah i think that that was probably you were trying to do your best and other people were trying to do their best it needed to be so it needed to be real to get to the healing phase. And it just like, man, that was so complicated. Yeah, the drama of it too. Like, oh, well, somebody wanted somebody to be the MVP and this guy to be the MVP. Like, nobody's thinking about that at the end of the game.

No, no, no. That's way too confusing. Especially, I mean, think about the Super Bowl like that. I mean, you're in a Super Bowl. There's no conspiracy theory happening here. Not on that one. Everyone's trying to win. Yes. Okay. Yes. Finding Mastery is brought to you by iRestore. When it comes to my health, I try to approach things with a proactive mindset. It's not about avoiding poor health. This is about creating the

conditions for growth. Now, hair health is one of those areas that often gets overlooked until your hair starts to change. That's when people pay attention. Now, that's why I've been loving iRestore Elite. It's a hands-free red light therapy device that helps stimulate dormant hair follicles, helps to support regrowth. It's a clinical grade device. It's simple to use. It fits right into the rhythm of my day, whether I'm meditating, reading, prepping for one of our clients here at Finding Mastery. It's really simple. Now, red light therapy has some pretty amazing research behind it when it comes to cellular energy, tissue repair, inflammation control, as well as healing. iRestore is using those same principles to help your hair thrive.

I really like this product. I used it last night. I use it on a regular basis. They also offer a 12-month money-back guarantee. So if you don't see results, they'll refund you. No questions. I love that. They have real confidence in their product.

And because you're a member of the Finding Mastery community, right now they're offering our listeners huge savings on the iRestore Elite. When you use the code FINDINGMASTERY at iRestore Elite. When you use the code findingmastery at iRestore.com slash findingmastery. Again, that code is findingmastery at iRestore.com slash findingmastery for exclusive savings. Finding Mastery is brought to you by Lisa. Sleep is one of the foundational pillars of high performance. There's no arguing that. And when we have great sleep consistently and deeply, we give ourselves the best chance to operate at our best.

Physically, cognitively, emotionally, sleep affects it all. That's why I care about the environment that I sleep in so much. And of course, a great mattress, it matters. One of our teammates here at Finding Mastery has been sleeping on a Lisa mattress for over a year now. And it's made a noticeable difference. They specifically chose one from their chill collection because they sleep hot, something I know many of us can relate to, myself included. What are they reporting back? Fewer wake-ups, deeper rest, and feeling more recovered when they jump into their work here at Finding Mastery. Lisa has several models to choose from. So whether you're a side sleeper,

a stomach sleeper, or somewhere in between, there's a fit designed specifically for you. And what I appreciate most is their purpose. They've donated over 41,000 mattresses to people in need. I love that. So right now, you can get 25% off all mattresses at lisa.com, plus an extra $50 off when you use the code

finding mastery at checkout that's lisa l-e-e-s-a.com the promo code is finding mastery for 25 off and then plus an extra 50 on us because quality sleep is just too important to leave to chance. All right. So in a world where athletes are a bit different than when we grew up, what insights can you point to that you understand about these high talents? And you can adopt the lens for a parent. You can adopt the lens for an executive trying to lead high talents in their organization and or other kind of sport endeavors. But what do you know about these young, young, they're 20 some year olds that are coming in? They're extraordinarily talented. What do you know about them right now?

While they're learning, you know, on video games, YouTube, if they don't like what they don't like what you say or what you're teaching, they'll go find it on YouTube and show you that challenge you. So you'd be ready to be challenged, but you have to be ready to be strong and clear and let them know no ambiguity. Like everybody, you want to know where you stand. And so if you hit them and let them know exactly what's up, they might not like it, but they'll actually take a breath and like come back and be like, okay,

you know, I appreciate you letting me know where I'm at and how do I, so what do I do to change the situation? Cool. That's a great insight. And for when you think about the, the, some of the most. Instead of taking their ball and going like just leaving like i'm done with you now every day there's guys can come across like come around like that once in a while right but you know i'd say the that that group that what gen z right would be more like i'm gonna take my ball and split. And so you're communicating clearly without ambiguity

so that they don't say, well, I'm taking my ball and going home. Right. Yeah. I think the coolest thing, one of the most impressive things when we went through the hiring process with Coach McDonald, who's our new head coach, he's entering his second season, 37 years old. Coached high school football when he was a freshman in college.

Really understands. He's like, I want to help you. Why are you getting so upset? And his communication is very clear. Very distinct. I want to help you get better. Like, don't be upset with me. We're in this together. I want you to

make as much money as you possibly can so we can all win championships and so why are you gonna be so upset and so there's a really like you know so they're depersonalizing it yeah is that what he's doing yeah i don't know if it's depersonalizing it um not making it take it less they taking it let they presenting it a way that's yeah how would you say it mike i'm presenting in a way that's less personal yeah yeah that's what i was trying to say but you said it better yeah okay so that's a way to make it about the thing rather than about each other yes okay and sometimes it needs to be about yeah whatever organization you're in it's it's it's it's very similar so this is what we're all about what do you say to parents right now that are trying to raise kids that um you know you we got hopes and dreams for our kids and in the current climate

um what insights do you have because you've been in my mind extraordinary parent um and you can bring whatever part of that forward that you'd like to because um what you've done as a parent is really hard talking about ben i am talking about yeah yeah yeah and so raising um raising a child with special needs and keeping a marriage intact which you've done both is really hard to do the data is is like yeah autism is it's like 86 percent divorce rate right yeah and yeah Tracy and I went through it very early when he was when Ben was diagnosed at three or four years old and we we said like hey these are like these are our non-negotiables this is what this is this is this is my role this is your role babe and like like we want to be together like let's let's just

let's make this work and we and jack was i mean he was like one two yeah and two boys two boys yeah and uh yeah so i think we just basically said, like, okay, we're in this together. Really, it was just a team. Like, we're in this together. Like, we're not loving each other. We're just upset about the situation. So how are we going to fix this? In the heat of a battle, would you say that?

Or is that something that you were just, you set the tone early? Like, look, when we fight or we argue, it's not a disdain for each other it's like we're not seeing it the same way or one of us is tired or yeah i think we you know you can't again like addressing that elephant in the room the longer the longer you let like leave things like under the table like not talking about it then the more negativity creeps in who's better it's a natural is it is it it's probably Tracy. Yeah, she's good. She can let you know what she thinks.

Yeah, she brings it forward pretty well. No, there was definitely a day it was like, she's like, it basically came to a head. She's like, we need to get some counsel. I'm like, you know, she had been saying that for a while, and I was busy. I'm doing my job, you're doing your job. Right?

Like figuring out, you know, how to,, which was very, very much harder than mine at the time. Right. And you know, we're going to, you know, like she kept saying it and I was finally like, you know what? I think you're right. We should go see, we should go talk to, we should go talk to a counselor. And then we came home that night and we just like just like a to z man we just like went through it and and that was it we never went saw a counselor like these these are our rules of engagement we're keeping this we're keeping this thing together we're gonna like we're gonna be there for each other we're gonna be there for other parents we're going through this. And God willing, you know, we did get through it. And, you know, I mean, Tracy's been amazing. I mean, we have Ben's Fund.

You know, we raise money for families that can't afford treatments for autism. She's just crushed it. I want to say that aloud one more time. Ben's Fund, which is a nonprofit support mechanism for people who cannot afford the treatment or modalities needed to best support their son or daughter that has autism. So, bensfund.org. Yep. Weighted blankets, iPads, camps, just, you know, counseling, marriage counseling. Like anything, you know, anything you can do to like, you know, help, marriage counseling, like anything you can do to help these people.

But anyway, sorry. Just having that direct communication. So there's a theme here, right? Let's not beat around the bush. There's a theme here about direct communication, about being honest, but doing it in a way that you understand, with empathy, the other person's experience. Yeah. I'm not going to say that, like, you know, the tone doesn't get off once in a way that you understand with empathy, the other person's experience. Yeah.

Yeah. So, okay. I'm not going to say that, like, you know, the tone doesn't get off once in a while, Mike, you know? I wish Tracy was here right now. She'd be rolling her eyes like, okay, guys, you two over here. Yeah. Her favorite line is, her favorite movie line is from Wedding Crashers, you know, in the

beginning, he goes, they're both talking and they're having this divorce deal going on there's this big settlement going on and she goes she looks at the husband and goes you shut your mouth and you're talking to me so that's her line i know like okay i need i need i need to still my role you know you shut your mouth when you're talking to me i don't know where this comes from maybe because you're good at this but our family would do something fun which is like say lisa and i are arguing or lisa and and I are arguing or Lisa and Grayson are arguing, or I mean, Grayson are arguing something like that. The other person inevitably will say, uh, like it's Grayson. If Lisa and I are arguing, Grayson will say, dad, you're still in the circle of love. Cause he's identifying clearly. I'm the

one with the problem here, you know? Right. Or like if, if, if Grayson and his mom are arguing and I'll, and it's, he's like in the wrong or he's like feeling a certain way, I'll be like, Grayson, you're still in the circle of love. I can't imagine. It's so funny.

I can't imagine you like not being in control of like, like a calling, like not having a calming situation. Yeah, no. I can never imagine like raising your voice. No, I don't.

Okay. Like it feels like a waste of energy for me, you know? So, but, but like just the diffusement, the art of diffusing is like, it's so cool.

Yeah. It goes a long way. Okay. Highlights. When you think about the last 14 years, has it been something like that for you here? 15, whatever,

15 years. We're getting ready for our 16th draft, man. Here we go. Wow. What are some highlights? You know, the athletes, moments, coaches, 15 years. We're getting ready for our 16th draft, man. Here we go. What are some highlights? You know, the athletes, moments, coaches, scouts, like what are some highlights that come up that you're like,

ah, this was so good. There's, man. There's a lot. There's a lot. Yeah. A lot of blessings, man. There's so many, like many like obviously you know winning the world championship you know all the experiences with the players like it's so fun being able to to pick the players

and call them up and I started like okay why haven't so like letting the scouts do it now you know like if there's they know you're giving them some of that love yeah yeah okay why don't but then like you know probably like rewarding guys with contracts you know life-changing money uh which on the flip side is my least favorite part is like the negotiating and like, you know, have like the cap casualty part and just letting guys go in general, right? But yeah, I mean, just seeing guys, like the growth too, like guys growing up

and like biting into what you're, what you've been talking about for years, right? So I'm like, like Doug Baldwin once in a while sent me a letter I wrote him because of the lockout. And so I was recruiting him, you know, through like, through the mail. We couldn't talk to the players and he was a rookie free agent. And I was like, hey man, like, you know, you don't get drafted. Like, this is what I think of you.

Pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop. And like, you know, we have Brandon St if you pop and like you know we have brandon stokely here and like you can replace brandon stoke we're not gonna resign brandon stokely you can meet and start right away those relationships and then like the you know the hard conversations i've had with him over the years too i was gonna say that i have conversations with sherm you know like richard sherman oh yeah yeah yeah i have a special place for Doug Baldwin too and he's so full of fire

you're not getting out of a relationship with Doug without getting a little truth serum he's way more peaceful now he's an amazing human that's cool that you guys have I asked about highlights and Richard and he come forward both of them come forward

he would say how would he say it to me about highlights and Richard and he come forward both of them come forward which is cool yeah he would say he would say uh how would he say it to me um hey man you need to you need to give me some time come on you need to give me some time you know those direct commerce you know this confrontational okay last thing if you could sit with any master, who would it be? Oh, Jesus. And what would you want to ask him? One question. Woo.

Why no patience? Like, why, why, there's no gift of patience. Like, why, like, why don't we give each other the grace that you bestowed on him? Like, that you had, you know? Cool question. And where would you have the conversation with him? What comes to mind? On a boat with a beer. Yeah. So I'm going down. Yeah. Perfect. That's not, I think of like near an olive tree.

I'm not that Catholic. That's great. All right. Good man, dude. Appreciate you. I'm so happy. This was, you know, I don't, I don't, we went all over the shop with some fun stories that maybe just you and I appreciate, but like, I hope that the listener can pull away a couple of things. One is you got to really know your craft. Relationships matter. Direct communication is how you honor them. If you do it in a kind, compassionate way, you're investing in the right way to other people. John, I love having you as a friend.

Thank you for everything, John. Appreciate you. Thank you. This was fun. Thanks for getting me to do it. Yeah. Okay, that was great. Emma, who do we have on next?

All right. Next time we have the wonderful Tenzin Selden. Okay. This one is so good. It's like this brilliant intersection between climate and tech and with a business lens on it. So for folks that might not know her, Tenzin is a venture capitalist, a global climate leader who's been working on climate tech for over two decades. She is a remarkable person whose life has been shaped by exile, activism, and an unwavering sense of purpose. She was born to Tibetan refugee parents. She was educated at Stanford and Oxford and now leading at the intersection of

spirituality and impact. Tenzin shares how she stays grounded in compassion while taking on some of the world's biggest challenges. We actually recorded this in one of our former Finding Mastery studios last fall, and the conversation now feels even more relevant than it did when we first filmed it. I am really excited for you to hear it. All right. Thank you so much for diving into another episode of Finding Mastery with us. Our team loves creating this podcast and sharing these conversations with you. We really appreciate you being part of this community. And if you're enjoying the show, the easiest no-cost way to support is to hit the subscribe or follow button wherever you're listening.

Also, if you haven't already, please consider dropping us a review on Apple or Spotify. We are incredibly grateful for the support and feedback. If you're looking for even more insights, we have a newsletter we send out every Wednesday. Punch over to findingmastery.com slash newsletter to sign up. The show wouldn't be possible without our sponsors. And we take our recommendations seriously. And the team is very thoughtful about making sure we love and endorse every product you hear on the show. If you want to check out any of our sponsor offers you heard about in this episode, you can find those deals at findingmastery.com slash sponsors. And remember, no one does it alone.

The door here at Finding Mastery is always open to those looking to explore the edges and the reaches of their potential so that they can help others do the same. So join our community, share your favorite episode with a friend, and let us know how we can continue to show up for you. Lastly, as a quick reminder, information in this podcast and from any material on the Finding Mastery website and social channels is for information purposes only.

If you're looking for meaningful support, which we all need, one of the best things you can do is to talk to a licensed professional. So seek assistance from your healthcare providers. Again, a sincere thank you for listening. Until next episode, be well, think well, keep exploring.