Finding Mastery with Dr. Michael Gervais - Self-Discovery and Acceptance | Triathlete, Angela Naeth

Episode Date: November 6, 2019

This week’s conversation is with Angela Naeth, currently ranked among the top triathletes in the world with 3 sub 9-hour Ironman performances.Angela is a multiple 70.3 and Ironman Champion and has 30+ podiums at the 70.3 and Ironman distances.If you're not familiar with the 70.3, that's the total distance in miles for what's considered a half-ironman. A full ironman triathlon is 140+ miles (consisting of a 2.4-mile swim, a 112-mile bicycle ride and a 26.22-mile marathon run, raced in that order).In 2018, Angela, while battling Lyme disease, placed 8th at the Ironman World Championships with a time of 8:57, which is just remarkable.So why compete with Lyme disease – why put her body through something that intense?For Angela, it’s about using sport as a means to help her better understand herself and discover what she’s capable of, what she’s made of.It’s about doing it for her own satisfaction rather than trying to appease others, which is something she’s had to work on.And that’s really what this conversation is all about: discovery and acceptance. Self-discovery involves testing yourself; that feedback, that information, is part of the process for figuring out who you are.Self-acceptance involves taking that information and embracing the true nature of it; it’s about getting comfortable in your own skin.They go hand in hand and Angela has a very eloquent way of describing her process for it— I hope you find ways to apply those lessons._________________Subscribe to our Youtube Channel for more powerful conversations at the intersection of high performance, leadership, and meaning: https://www.youtube.com/c/FindingMasteryGet exclusive discounts and support our amazing sponsors! Go to: https://findingmastery.com/sponsors/Subscribe to the Finding Mastery newsletter for weekly high performance insights: https://www.findingmastery.com/newsletter Download Dr. Mike's Morning Mindset Routine! https://www.findingmastery.com/morningmindsetFollow us on Instagram, LinkedIn, and X.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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how I'm going to learn from it and grow from it. And just having that little slight change in perspective has been huge. All right, welcome back or welcome to the finding mastery podcast i'm michael gervais and by trade and training of sport and performance psychologist as well as the co-founder of compete to create and the whole idea behind these conversations behind this podcast is to learn from people who have committed their life efforts towards mastery, hopefully mastery of self and mastery of craft. What we want to do is we want to dig to understand how do they organize their inner life? What is it that they're searching for? And what are the

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easier. So if you're trying to hit your daily protein goals with something seamless, I'd love for you to go check them out. Get a free variety pack, a $25 value and 10% off for life when you head to davidprotein.com slash finding mastery. That's David, D-A-V-I-D, protein, P-R-O-T-E-I-N.com slash Finding Mastery. Angela is a multiple 70.3 and Ironman champion and has had 30 plus podiums on the 70.3 and Ironman distances. Now, if you're not familiar with 70.3, that's the total distance in miles for what's considered a half Ironman. That's right. A full Ironman triathlon is 140 plus miles and it goes in this order, 2.4 mile swim, 112 mile bicycle ride, and a marathon,

26.2 miles. And in 2018, Angela, while battling Lyme disease, placed eighth in the Ironman World Championships with a time of eight hours, 57 minutes. And it's just remarkable to do that, let alone to do it with Lyme disease. So it begs the question, why would you run an Ironman triathlon with Lyme disease? And why put her body through something that intense? And for Angela, it was really clear she's using sport as a means to help her better understand herself and discover what she's capable of, what she's made of. And really, I think at the highest level, that is what sport is. It's a mechanism. It's a way to understand who we are, to reveal who we are. And we can do that through any craft. It doesn't need to be sport. It can be business.

It can be spiritual frameworks. It can be whatever the craft is. It could be anything in the arts. It can be parenting. It's a way to understand who you are when you really take that craft to heart and you have a seriousness about developing those skills. Because if you're going to do that, you're going to get tested. And that's really what this conversation is about. And for her, it's about doing it for her own satisfaction rather than trying to appease others, which is something that she's had to work on. And that's really what this conversation gets down to, discovery and acceptance. And self-discovery is about the process to understand who you are, which definitely involves being tested.

Because just having an idea of who you are is very different than knowing who you are. And the acceptance part is really the process of taking in information and embracing the true nature of that information. It's without judgment and without critique. It's just accepting it. It doesn't mean passively accepting it. It just means getting to the true nature and accepting it. And in simple terms, when it comes to self-acceptance, it's really about getting comfortable in your own skin, no matter what the conditions are. And it's that second part that's really tricky, let alone the first part being tricky. And both of those go hand in hand for Angela.

And she has a very eloquent way of describing her process. And I hope you find ways to apply the lessons that she's come to learn as well. So with that, let's jump right into this conversation with Angela Nath. Angela, how are you? I'm good. Good. How are you? Yeah, I'm great. Thank you for spending the time for this conversation. And what you've done is extraordinary. And the insights that you have, I'm really looking forward to how you make sense of what you've done. So just want to start off by saying congratulations on what you've done. And yeah, so thank you for your time. No, thank you very much. I'm honored. Where are you in the world right now? Right now I'm in Cabo, Mexico, enjoying the beautiful sun. So it's been fantastic. What's going on in Cabo, Mexico, enjoying the beautiful sun. So it's been fantastic.

What's going on in Cabo? Is this vacation mode? It's a little bit of both. So my mom and I come down here every year for the last few years. And there's always a race down here, a half Ironman. This year is kind of more of a vacation slash do part of the race and have some fun with it. So my mom still lives up north in Canada, and I live in the US. And so we don't get to see each other that often. And she gets to get away from the cold and the wet. And so it's a great place to come down together. Okay, so let's let's start just like

your relationship with your parents. Yeah. Um, well, it's been it's been an on and off my life. You know, I would never say that my parents were bad parents because they always did their best and they are fantastic. But when you're in high school and you are trying to find yourself, I guess parents don't really know went to the U.S. for school when I was 18 and really had a separation from them quite a bit and was in a few relationships where I never really spent a lot of time with them. So over the years, you know, you kind of learn how important family is and especially parents. And so in the last five or six years, my mom and I have gotten pretty close. And, you know, I call her almost every few days. My dad's just very quiet. But he means well, he's just, he's not as open as my mom, but my mom and I definitely connect on a different level, for sure. So it's been good. Okay okay what was it like growing up for you um well I'm the middle child so it's kind of like that middle child's um problem what does that mean to you for my life it was always me trying to find love um you know I've been through a lot of uh processes to kind of understand that but my sister, she's a few years older than I,

and I always looked up to her, but she was going through puberty and what have you. And I have a younger brother. And sometimes I feel like the middle child gets lost a little bit. And I was always a straight A student and really good in athletics and pretty much everything I did. I, I was, I was very, uh, straight A, uh, first place and everything, but I never felt like it fulfilled me. And I, um, I craved my dad's attention. My dad was an ex bodybuilder and, um, he's the one that actually inspired me to get more into athletics at first. And I could not get him to watch a track race of mine or really be involved in my sports. And so I really, I felt I always had to prove myself. And being the middle child, I just, I was always the one that kind of made sure there was no fighting.

I really tried to read other people so that everything around me was calm. So I kind of took on that role in my family, definitely. Okay. So were you using sport as a way to grab attention or to force focus to you as a demonstration to yourself that you matter? It was like the shiny shiny hook the shiny lure no not at all actually i think more of it was to find out who i was as a person i felt lost um and the one and when i started to run as an as um as a sixth grader it was it was just fun it was

something that i felt connected with myself and so over over the years, it was more of a passion to connect my mind and my body together. It was the one place where I felt there was something more with me. As a very good academic student, that never gave me anything rewarding in and of itself. It was great to get awards and what have you, but it was more the, the connection with my body that I wanted and, and, uh, connection with the outside world. And I really felt that when I was doing sports. Okay. How did you make sense that your dad didn't pay attention to something that you loved? You know, well, back then I, I didn't, I mean, I understand a little bit more now in the sense that, um, maybe he wasn't even aware of it. You know, um, my brother was in karate and he

spent a lot of, uh, time and went to my brother's tournaments and, but never to mine. And so I didn't quite understand why. Um, and it perhaps he just wasn't aware that he wasn't even doing that. Um, so I've kind of accepted that now. And, and like, and like when you talk to him, he's very proud of me. And when I do a race now, he actually texts me and responds and stuff. It's just, he's not very vocal. But when he would talk to, say, a fellow coworker or a friend or something, he's very proud of his kids. It's just it doesn't come out as the way of, you know, Angela, I'm so proud of you and like really cheering for me and stuff. So when you were younger, what is it if looking back at as an adult now, but when you're younger, what is it that you were craving? Love, self-love, basically. I mean, I think I was searching for connection. And I've always

been intrigued and connected with being outside in the earth and finding purpose. There was no solid meaning to me. and the only time that i really truly felt that was through sport when i when i'm racing and feeling that kind of flow feel and just feeling calm inside and not not thinking about anything else and you know part of that i think over over the years i've learned is just truly self-love and enjoying that process. Okay, cool. What does that mean? I guess there's, when I say,

and I don't mean to be critical of it in any way, but like what does, how do you practice self-love? Because self-love or love is a verb, right? So it requires action. It requires some sort of movement other than thought. And so how do you practice that? I think it's an everyday process. It's an ongoing questioning of who I am, fears that I do or do the actions that I do

and being accepting of just what is right now. I mean, I don't think I'm even close to really truly understanding what that is, but I'm becoming more aware of it. It's, you know, when I was growing up, I had an eating disorder at one point. I would push my body to its utmost limits in sports. You know, there's a lot of things that I did that were almost self-sabotaging at times where, you know, part of that was just trying to accept me for who I was. Um, and then being in relationships that were probably emotionally, not ones that were good for me, you know, uh, searching for outside factors. And so it's just the ability to be alone, to be, to be okay, being alone, to be, um,

not having to always crave outside love from, from like other things or from. Okay. Yeah. Okay. So I, at first I heard discovery, right. That like when I heard, when I heard about like self-love or how do you practice love? And I heard like a discovery process. Then I heard you move into an acceptance like just accepting who i am right but first you had to discover who you were and then there's an acceptance that came with it and somewhere on this history that you have this path that you have you were i don't know distracted by needing to look a certain way or perform a certain way for the attention or love of others. And as you continue on the discovery and stop me if I'm all wrong here,

as you continue on the discovery and acceptance process, you're like, wait, I'm good. Just who I am. Like, right. So you're, is that close to being right? Oh, I think, I think you got it spot on. It's, it's, and it's still a continually you know, it's an ongoing process. I think that's part of life is, you know, I just went through a three-week process up in Toronto at a place called Soul 7. And, you know, I learned about some of the limiting beliefs I have, like, you know, going back to my childhood. And a lot of it that came up was the fact that I'm truly just trying to accept who I am as a person, you know, and I think that's something to be said about

everybody in life. You know, we go through life and go to our job and do all this stuff and try to have friends and create friendships and connections and stuff. But it really comes down to how you're connected with yourself and being able to fully accept who you are. Yeah. That model of integration is like, is really hard. You know that? I mean, there's, from an athletic performance standpoint, we say, yeah, you want to be integrated. You know, you want to be connected to your environment, your body technique and your thought patterns, right? Like having all those things unfold together is really rare and pretty special. And then also from like a more psychological dynamic standpoint or psychodynamic standpoint, integration is also equally as challenging, which is like, who am I accepting all the warts all the recesses all the scratchy parts all the

shiny parts all of that and to not try to get ahead of what it's supposed to be or who you're supposed to be to others is like I don't know modern times it feels like it's a deep challenge and maybe it's always been a challenge but we're just living in modern times yeah that being said like do you have some insights on what has been working for you to get to that place? Well, I think the biggest thing is just letting go. And I know that sounds just kind of standard, I guess. Yeah. Letting go of what though? What are you dropping or letting go of? What people think of me or assumptions, you know, allowing others to kind of direct your life. I think over the years I've been able to learn to kind of step back

and really focus on what I want. And in years past I've been very influenced or easily influenced by other people's thoughts of what I should and shouldn't do and really have let that affect me. So I think it comes down to also having the confidence in knowing that the path that you're wanting to integrate in your life is really up to you and having that confidence in yourself. And that's part of that self-love discovery is, is, um, being okay to make mistakes and, and, um, allowing

others to judge you and just let that go. Um, and, you know, you learn it as you go. And, and, and, uh, the more, the more that I've been able to kind of brush people's words off or my assumptions of what they think of me, or, you know, the shoulds and shouldn'ts of society in general. It's, um, it's, it's a freedom, you know, and, uh, you take that day to day to day and you become more creative. You become more, um, who you want to become. Like I got divorced a few years ago and that really And that really had me in very depressed state, you know, and I, I lost myself again. And I thought I knew knew who I was. And it was actually one of the best things that could have happened to me, because I started to really discover

what I wanted in life, because I was alone, I wasn't, um, trying to make others happy at that point. I needed to make myself happy. And it made me realize that that's, that's a key process. And, um, I had to accept myself and who I was and, and it, and it helped me just grow. And, um, uh, you know, part of that was the discovery of, of the and letting go of past hurt, past beliefs. That was just one instance in my life thus far, but it's been really good. A lot of things have come out past my divorce that I've developed, and it's been good. How much formal internal work have you done like with a psychologist or somebody that's trained? Quite a bit actually. I when I

was in high school, I went to a therapist. I also went to a few therapists in college. I've always had someone to talk to. So even when I first started sport and really turned professional, I connected with a sports psychologist. It's obvious to me you've done work. Oh, well, that's good. Yeah. No, it's obvious. Yeah. Because, you know, there's only three things as humans we can train, if I can be a bit of a reductionist here, which I don't really appreciate. But to make it simple, you can train your craft, you can train your body, and you can train your mind.

And it sounds like somehow your family structure and or you found good value in trying to understand the inner experience. Yeah, it's always been really intriguing to me. When I was 14, I would go and look at the self-help book and psychology books, not because I felt I was – I mean, in all of life. And so part of that is like, you know, going through divorce, going through relationships, going through ups and downs in sport. I've always reached out and connected with some type of psychologist or therapist because I just think it's invaluable. You know, even right now I have a sports psychologist. I work with Craig Manning through Red Bull. Um, I talked to him pretty much weekly. Um, you know, I was up, up in, uh, Toronto, as I said, for three weeks, and that was all very mental processing.

Um, so it's just, uh, it's, it's, it's something I find valuable in life. And I definitely have always been told I was a thinker. So I always try to value that more than anything else, really. Finding Mastery is brought to you by Momentous. When it comes to high performance, whether you're leading a team, raising a family, pushing physical limits, or simply trying to be better today than you were yesterday. What you put in your body matters. And that's why I trust Momentus. From the moment I sat down with Jeff Byers, their co-founder and CEO, I could tell this

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about what it is that you're, that has been valuable to you. And there's so many ways to do, like there's as many personalities as there are, um, in, as a psychologist, there's good psychologists, there's not good psychologists, there's lots of different theories and approaches. What has worked for you? What has been the approach that's worked for you? Is it somebody that's more kind and gentle or edgy and hard? Is it more science-based?

Is it more exploratory from a you-hold-the-answers? What is the format that's been working for you? Yeah, I've been through a lot. So I've done some cognitive behavioral therapy, I've done just more kind of exploratory stuff. But the one that's really been helpful, quite honestly, is the learning process from Craig Manning. And I don't really know how to explain what he does. But basically, I talked to him and tell him what's going on in my life. And I find that the more open and the more I just, I mean, like over time you learn to trust people. And I'm a very open person. If someone were to have a conversation, even if, even if it was a stranger and I was with them for over an hour,

I'm, I'm very open because I just, I'm so intrigued with connection. And so I think that's first and foremost, what's, what's really helped me, but with Craig. Um, so if there's something going on in my life or something comes up, I I'm just very blatant about it. I talked to him about it. And then what he does is he helps me, helps me with some type of learning curve or process. Like he he's really integrated into trying to not find a solution, but not find a solution, but find a way to, to look at it in a slightly different way and focus on what I want and,

and, and not, and putting not so much emphasis on emotion, but versus what is this emotion really telling me? He usually when I talk to him, he he has like examples of stories, and he and he's very personable. He also he also talks about his life a lot with me, which I I can connect with, and it just kind of helps me open up. And so having just this open conversation like almost like with a really good friend but someone who is obviously educated um on the

psychology aspect and kind of knows how to direct the conversation it's uh it just kind of opens my mind to those like aha moments or or helps me focus on on um a specific goal or task within the framework of what we're talking about rather than going down these spirals of emotional roller coasters or assumptions and beliefs and just kind of pulling myself out of that that we all get kind of caught up in. And so you face down some of the corners and recesses through this inner work, the darker side, if you will, when you think of the dark side of elite performance, what are they for you? And you've, you've already touched on stuff that is, I don't know, like some of the most complicated things to work with eating disorders and depression, actually depression's

not that complicated, but like certainly eating disorders are complicated. And I didn't want to skim over that. Like I'm recognizing that that was a important part of your life. And I also wanted to double click on that at the, when you're bringing it up about is that, um, was it eating disorder or was it more body dysmorphic? Was it related? Um, did one way heavier than the other? It was, it was a lot younger. When I look back at it, it was more of a loss of self. During the time when I had that develop, I went into a new school. I was really in love with sport. And I had about 10 really close friends. And we were all connected. And we went into a high school. And they all started smoking and doing drugs. And I was honestly the only one that didn't go that route. So I felt lost. And I think that was more of that self love trying to accept who I was because I knew what I wanted

in the past that I wanted to take and they were totally opposite from my surroundings. So I was kind of left alone. So oftentimes, like, eating disorders are involved with anxiety and control, and there's some stuff that's underneath the surface of it. And was it that for you, or was it more, and that's why I'm just wanting to understand body dysmorphic, like I didn't have the right body to either be accepted or to perform well? I think it started with that, definitely. But it morphed into the fact of not fitting in anymore.

Like I always had quads. Oh, got it. Like I always had very large legs just from riding a bike and everything else. And I do remember one instance I had a basketball coach tell me I had such big legs compared to everyone else. And I do remember one instance, I had a basketball coach tell me I had such big legs compared to everyone else. And you know, as a 14 year old, you sometimes take things a little bit in the wrong direction. But I think that was part of it when I started to kind of not eat as much and be more aware of what even food was. That's the only time that I can really, really instant in that context. But it was definitely a part of being in control of something, because I couldn't control where my friends were going or what they were doing. And I was very, I was anxious about that because I was lost. I mean, I didn't have connection anymore. prime time when you're in when you're a teenager to have friends that you can do stuff with you

know and if they're all doing smoking and and stuff that you don't want to do it's uh you feel disconnected okay all right and then so i i kind of hijacked that question a little bit you know with that frame but i was like what when you think about the dark side for becoming your best or being the best in the world and i'm not sure which is your mission um one or the other there but what is the darker side for you loneliness if i had to think of a darker side it's a fear of loneliness in life in um direction of purpose in and even any type of racing. It's this fear of...

It's that fear. Even if you achieve such greatness in racing and results and all this stuff, or you don't, it's that fear of a deep-rooted loneliness, if I had to connect with anything. Yeah. I mean, that is actually what comes up more often than not for folks is like the amount of time and energy it takes to get yourself right to do the thing at a high level. The cost is oftentimes relationships. Yeah. Oh, definitely. Yeah. So what do you do to

work with that? Well, um, I have a boyfriend that's my coach. I think first and foremost is, is finding, um, a few close, close people that you can really connect with. And, you know, one of those people is my boyfriend. And when we first started dating, he was not my coach at all. But I went through Lyme a couple of years ago and really relied on his help and support just mentally and physically. And he was a coach prior to that. And so I asked him to coach me. And that relationship has grown more so in both avenues. And it's been fantastic. But I think part of trying to fight off that darkness side is actually living it sometimes.

I've spent a lot of time traveling. And I think part of my traveling is trying to still find out who I am, but part of it is knowing that that journey is what I need to do to face that loneliness. If I were to go and be in a triathlon group and train all the time, always constantly with people, I think that fear would always be there. And so I think I almost sometimes become a recluse a little bit because I know that I need to be accepting of who I am. And over the years, the more and more that I do it, the more freedom and happiness I feel. And then also part of that is being able to be connected with other people at the same time. So that's why, you know, I started a group of women, especially, because they're, you know, I find triathlon sometimes, even though it's a very dynamic sport,

and there's a lot of people out there in groups, it's still a very lonely sport. And so just being able to connect one-on-one with people is part of that journey. And it's helped me a lot. And then you, I mean, there's so much in what you say, but you had Lyme disease. And so how did you, like, did you get it from a tick? I think that's maybe the only way you did it. Yeah. A couple of years ago. I mean, I don't remember being bitten by a tick, but I got really sick just before winter hit. And my lymph nodes under my armpits turned to the size of golf balls. And I showed my boyfriend at the time, and he thought, oh, well, maybe you're just sick. And a couple days went by, and they went down. But then I also remember scratching something off the back of my head, and it was bloody. And I mean, that usually doesn't happen.

So I'm assuming that was actually the tick, um, because a couple months later, that's when all the symptoms kind of started taking, taking me over. And so it really compromises, you know, the immune system. Right. And so like how, How bad did it get for you? It got very bad. I thought I was losing my mind, quite honestly. At first, it's funny because as an athlete, I'm quite in tune, and I'm pretty sure everyone's in tune with how they feel. But small things would creep up. I wasn't recovering, and I would get pulled muscles, and my legs would start burning.

And it got to a point where I had extreme anxiety and depression at the same time. I bought one of those lights in the winter. I was trying everything I could. I was talking to psychologists. I got my blood tested and went to all different types of doctors and no one could figure out what I had. And I just knew something was wrong. And there was a point where I literally could not get out of bed. It was like I was developing MS or something. I thought it was quite serious. But every time I would go to a doctor, I even went to Boston Children's

Hospital just to see some specialists because it just didn't make sense. And they all just said I had a virus and it was in my head. Oh, geez. I mean, what an insult in some ways, right? Like, hey, medical profession, when you can't figure it out, it's not necessarily psychological. How about it? Oh, yeah. It took three or four months to finally diagnose. And I actually went back to a friend of mine who did my foot. I had a, I had surgery on my foot and he knew me quite well. He isn't, he is an ex runner and, or he is a runner. And I was just like, and I talked to him a lot and I said, Neil, something is seriously wrong with me. And it's, it's not in my head. And he, he was the one, um, besides my boyfriend, because we actually thought it was Lyme because we looked at it. We were

trying to diagnose it, but everything came back negative. But when I talked to Neil, the doctor, he said, you know, I think you have Lyme. And I said, no, no, no. I got tested. He's like, sometimes it's false positive or false negative. And so you should go to my friend who specializes in it. So I went to his friend and as soon as I walked into his office, he's like, I'm 99% sure you have it, but here's a few different tests that are not part of the standard medical system. And that's the thing. It's a very controversial thing within the standard medical testing because it's always negative. They don't test everything properly. And I've been through the gamut. And so anyways, it came back positive

and it came back positive with co-infections. And so then we started treatment and it was just, it was just a relief to finally have, you know, something to hold on to rather than me going crazy. Like I, like there were times I couldn't sleep and I'm, I'm crying my eyes out in the middle of the night and major anxiety, like wanting to bang my head against the wall because I just wanted whatever was inside me to, to, to be gone. And it was just, it was like I was going crazy and my boyfriend had to live through it with me. And it was, it was, it was very difficult, very. And I don't think no one quite understand what Lyme is unless you go through this. Unless you go through it, it hits you mentally, physically, emotionally.

It's not just a bacteria. It literally takes over your entire body and mind. It's nuts. Very much. So when I hear that, I'm thinking like thank god you understand what it means to be an advocate for yourself and also do the difficult work to to keep going keep going it's like try training was in some ways perfectly elegant for the advocacy and the distance you needed to go to figure out a solution oh definitely yeah it. Yeah. It's, um, yeah. I mean, you had, like, I had to be a self advocate, even within the context of my family and friends

and stuff, because no one, no one knew what I was thinking or feeling inside. And it, and it honestly didn't make sense on paper. I was the epitome of health on paper. And, um, you know, I think, I think it's that part of that discovery of who you are and what you stand for and I mean that whole process made me realize like I like you have to be your own self-advocate in in everything you know um it's just it like a good example of what I've been working on too with Craig is is just being assertive um you know there's been times in my life I've let, you know, relationships or people in my life really almost direct, direct me. And maybe it's, it's, they think it's in my best interest, but it's not what I want. And so it was,

there was always this tension inside me that I, I was not right. And, um And learning to be assertive is part of that self-advocacy and being true to yourself. It's kind of like when you're in high school and, you know, you're trying to fit in and wear makeup and do all this stuff. And then there comes a point in life where you're just like, screw it, you know, you're going to be yourself and you love who you are. You love your body. You can go out naked if you want. You know, it's this whole kind of accepting change, you know, you're going to be yourself and you love who you are. You love your body. You can go out naked if you want. You know, it's, it's this whole kind of accepting change, you know, and it's an ongoing thing, but, but, but you have to go into that process. You have to question your beliefs. Why do you feel this way? Why do you think this way? Um, and sometimes people don't want to do that. You know, it's, it's hard and, you know, going through divorce, lying, going through, you

know, a bunch of injuries because of that or because of accidents or what have you. It's every little thing kind of opens you up to this awareness, you know, and it's an opportunity or it's, or it's something to just kind of, um, ignore. And if you ignore it, you're not really growing. And I've always wanted growth, you know, in everything. Finding Mastery is brought to you by Cozy Earth. Over the years, I've learned that recovery doesn't just happen when we sleep. It starts with how we transition and wind down. And that's why I've built intentional routines into the way that I close

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Not that it needs to be etched or tattooed or whatever or whatever but like who are you how do you describe you uh i um you know i i can't even describe who i am um because if i were to put myself out as a label i mean it's just a label i was kind of hoping you'd say that you know right like it's i yeah, I'm a triathlete. I coach and da, da, da, da. But that doesn't mean anything to me. It's, I'm a ball of energy. You know, I'm an energy in this earth trying to figure out. I'm still in that process. And I don't think we'll ever, I mean, I could never answer who am I.

And I think that's part of the acceptance. Yeah, it's one of the ancient meditations, right? Yeah. Is just to sit in a contemplative frame and say who am i and explore that thought for let's say 20 minutes or 20 years right like who am i yeah yeah and it's dynamic you know ball of energy is pretty cool right it's super dynamic okay um how many hours a week are you training? Like what kind of volume and relative intensity do you put in on a regular basis? It averages roughly from like anywhere from 18 to 30 hours.

And a lot of the intensity is just aerobic because obviously you can't do high intensity a lot of the times. But it's a lot of aerobic work and a lot of the times, but it's, it's a lot of aerobic work, um, and a lot of it on the bike. Um, so it roughly works out to maybe four to five hours of running, um, 15 hours of biking, and then six to seven hours swimming, um, maybe a little bit more, and then maybe like some weight training and, or what have you. So it's definitely seven days a week. You're like, as a pro, you're doing something. And what is your relationship with recovery? What are some of the, how important is it? What are some of the protocols you have in place?

Like, how do you think about recovery? Yeah, recovery is key. You know, I think over the years I've learned more and more. And especially as I'm getting older, recovery is key. For example, actually, I just, I was getting a little burnt out a couple of days ago and, you know, emotions come up and, and lack of motivation. And, and part of that, you know, I just needed time to just reset and do nothing. And so, you know, my coach, my boyfriend just said, you know what, we're going to take 36 hours and you're not even like, just do nothing,

go sit at the beach. You know, I'm obviously in Cabo right now. Um, but you know, part of that, like, like is learning to how to know how to recover faster as you're going throughout those workouts. And it's not that you can recover faster, but you can help your body and mind recover. Um, um, and part, and part of that is, you know, I use, I use these boots called Normatec boots. They're basically a compression air system. And it kind of, you can put them on. And so imagine if you were flying and then after you got off the plane, your feet are all swollen and stuff. The way to get rid of that is through these compression boots.

And if you can think of yourself as an athlete, time, you're always causing yourself a bunch of damage and that's causing a lot of inflammation and fluid buildup and stuff. And so using those boots, um, and I use them almost daily. I actually have them here. I travel with them now and it, it took me a while to see the, see the benefit of actually traveling with them because it's just another thing and as a triathlete you have about 50 million things you carry but since I've since I've taken them it's been a huge change and part and then also part of that is you're is you're is you're stuck in these boots for an hour and so it really gives your body time to relax and just lie down and and focus on recovery you know you know you're not

really doing anything else um i used them a bunch when i was training for an ultra that i did and like i i don't know how people did it 20 years ago or 10 years ago without them it is a it makes a massive difference for circulation and kind of for to advance the recovery that being said i'm not training right now and i'll get off a flight and definitely like I keep them at home. I'm not traveling with them. I was traveling with them. And then I'll get home at night and throw them on. And just for like clarity that they're not just like a boot, right? They come all the way up into your groin. And so it's like this big, huge sock, if you will. It's not even a sock. It's like a boot that comes all the way up, like up to your groin, right?

Like that's a better way to put it. And then I found that my family members, my 11-year-old son is like, hey, dad, can I do some Norma? Because he just loves how it feels after he – like he's a little athlete training himself. Yeah, right. But it's so relaxing at the same time. Cause unfortunately you just shut down for 20 minutes. Yeah. And actually like after you're, after you take them off, like you feel fresh, like you, you feel not so bogged down, like, like heavy legs. Like, I don't know if you've ever felt this, but when I go to say a restaurant and I'm,

and I'm upright in a sit position for a long period of time. And then I, and then after a couple hours, you know, talking and eating and stuff, and then you get up, your legs feel super heavy, and I just feel like, ugh. And whenever I get into the boots and I spend an hour or so in them and I come out, it's like I just have really fresh legs and I'm off. So sometimes I use them in between workouts, and it just kind of gives me that feeling of, okay, I sometimes I use them in between workouts. Um, and it just kind of gives

me that feeling of, um, okay, I'm ready for the next bout here. So, yeah, that's, um, it was, it's medical grade, you know, like it was born out of the medical device. And one of the things that, uh, it's to your point about the seriousness of recovery is that with the Seattle Seahawks guys travel, they're on the plane with them. They take them with them. It is part of getting recovery right. And it's also part – like when you don't have recovery right, you can't train as hard as early as you'd like. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

What else do you do for recovery? I think the biggest thing is sleep. Sleep cannot be underestimated. When I lack even just a couple hours sleep, I am just complete crap. And so I really try to focus on going to bed at a decent time. And I try not to set an alarm. I only set an alarm if I have to get up for a race or, you know, certain things, but, um, I kind of follow my, my body's clock. And so I generally get up at 6 no matter what. But because of that natural awakeness,

I have to make sure I go to bed early enough. And so I'm really cognitive of how I feel and my tiredness. How many hours of sleep is optimized for you or is optimal for you? For me personally, I need about eight hours and I feel pretty good. Are you using any tech around it or using your own, you know, feedback loops? Am I doing what? Sorry. Are you using any technology or using yourself as a feedback? Just myself. I mean, I sometimes use white noise to fall asleep.

And that kind of helps because I'm a very light sleeper and actually, actually that's not true. Another thing that I use, which is, it's kind of crazy, but I started using it about a year ago. And so, and part of it's my boyfriend, he always takes my covers, but I, um, I, I was reading up on a weighted blanket and I thought, I'm going to try that. And so I bought this 25 pound weighted blanket and I thought I'm going to try that. And so I bought this 25 pound weighted blanket and it is fantastic. I saw the company come out recently too. I couldn't imagine something

worse. Like, Oh, it's, it's, it's, it's the best. You love it. Yeah. So my body temperature heats up quickly or not quickly, but it does like when I play sport but at night i like i know my body temperature will wake me up and i can't mind that too and so it still works yes so the blanket i have it it it doesn't increase heat at all it's it's oh you gotta try it i mean it's it's phenomenal because like i like i like i've been living in and out of hotels for the last few weeks and i find it hard to fall asleep sometimes because I'm so used to this weighted blanket. So I'm like throwing pillows on top of the blanket, putting extra blankets and then turning down the heat so cold because like that, that causes a lot of increased heat.

But the blanket I have, and I don't know the company's name because there's a number out there, but it, I do not get overheated at all. It's, it's, it's fantastic's fantastic i mean i sleep like a baby it's amazing okay all right you're giving me a little hope for that product yeah all right and then nutrition big part of the game and yeah and and and i think just part of part of the nutrition yes you you eat your fruits and vegetables and lean meats and all that stuff and and and and and timing is important and everything but think for me, and the biggest thing is to eat enough. Like I feel I snack all the time. And like, even with my mom, I'm here and she's like, man, you always eat. You're always

constantly eating. I'm like, well, you know, I'm hungry. But part of it is like the constant recovery requires fueling. And that is not only outside of training, but in training. When I first started doing sports, I thought it was normal not to eat for two or three hours. Like that's just what you do, but you're putting yourself in such a deficit that when, so then when you do eat, you don't even have enough calories in you to actually recover. So it, so it was a huge learning curve in the last, I mean, it's been a while now since I've actually learned this, but, um, uh, is just the constant feeling you need for your body so that it can recover properly. Yeah. Yeah. Nutrition is super tricky for someone like you that's burning so much. And it's even, you know, it's equally as tricky for folks that are sitting

most of their life, you know? And so nutrition, sleep, you've got some recovery protocols in place as well. And then what are some of the tech things that you're using that are helping you be better? Yeah. Some of the tech things. So I just started using, it's called Alive Mind and I actually got it from Soul7 up in Toronto. So it's all about, so the body recovers when it's incoherence and coherence means that it's, it's, it's flowing. It's that flow state when you're training and racing and living. So the more that you can be in this type of flow state, no matter if you're just, you know, on your bed, hanging out or going and riding your bike or racing, the better you're off. And so it,

and we all know that feeling when we're feeling like really good. So part of the research out there that I've learned is, is, is they found that the frequency that really helps that is a hundred Hertz. And so this company up in Canada, it's called a live mind. Um, he creates all these different types of frequencies and you can put them on your, on your earlobes. It's like a connection to your, to your earlobe. And, um, it can like, you can wear it to kind of put you to, to get you into like a Delta or theta state. There's a certain frequency for that. But what I've been doing is using the a hundred Hertz frequency. It's kind of like the peaches and cream feel good one. And I

thought like, I just, I just started it a few weeks agoaches and cream feel good one. And I thought like, I just, I just started it a few weeks ago, but it's been fantastic. And I wear it for two or three hours. And it kind of just helps you get into that flow feeling that feeling of like, like feeling good. Um, so that's one of the tech kind of things that I have used. I also, um, I use CBD oil quite a bit. Um, I use it daily actually. Um, I take it before I go to sleep. I find that, um, over, over, overall it's been like, I started using it when I was diagnosed with Lyme just to kind of help with any type of anxiety. And I was, I was not sleeping and everything. And I've continued to use that, and that's been really, really helpful. Are you using isolate or full spectrum?

Full spectrum, yeah. And so it only has 0.03 THC. You're not concerned about that for testing? No, because you obviously need to be aware of what you're putting in your body. But the stuff, the company that I use tests extremely well. And that was one of my main things. And if you're using an appropriate product, then yes. But if you're buying something that has a bunch of THC in it, then yeah, it's very, very different. But this is very much studied and researched to make sure that it's 0.03.

What is that company? vid-cbd.com. And they actually have all their testing and how they do it, third-party testing, all on the website. It's very good quality. I really like this product. They sponsored the show for a little bit, but I really liked Ned. I don't know if you've had the chance. I don't know if you have an official relationship with yours, but Ned was a great product.

And I just like their vibe about it. They're very particular and they had good science behind it. But I'm enjoying it. I think that there's something there. I think it's pretty far down, like it's low down river or downstream, if you will, to impact. But I think that there's something there to pay attention to.

Oh yeah, definitely. Like compared to sleep. Like if you miss a day of CBD, but you miss a day of sleep, you know, there's a difference, right? Oh yeah, yeah, for sure. And I think we also have, we also have Roca in common.

Yes, oh definitely. Yeah, like what are you using them for? For swimming, swimming and bathing suits and my goggles. I love the goggles. Oh, you're using goggles for them. Yeah. Yeah. And then, so why, why for you, why Roka? You know, I started with Roka probably three or four years ago, but it was the wetsuits. I was, you know, I don't come from a swim background and any advantage I can get to a good swim is huge. And I tried many different wetsuits and I always felt that I couldn't bring my arms over and it just was so heavy. And when I put on a Roka and tried it, it was, it was so, it feels like you're not wearing anything almost. It feels

fantastic. And it actually almost is like it it almost propels me forward with my arms and so i mean after that first use i was just like i'm hooked i contacted the company and oh you did so you oh so yeah you found them yeah early days in wetsuits i grew up surfing it was like it was awful it felt like it was and you know it was like so non non ergonomic. I think that's the right word. Like it did not fit the body properly. It was like, I don't know. It was like a big old heavy sweater that you put on. And now it's like, okay, you can tell they swim. You can tell that they designed it to kind of put your body in that right posture and to be able to have that rotation so yeah and i i love them for the um the eyewear is like like when i'm bouncing around and doing whatever i'm doing it somehow they don't i don't know they don't move equipment's really important because they can be a distraction and maybe not necessarily game changer but a distraction is a problem and they don't fog up they don't move you know so that's i love them as well okay good any other texts that you're using?

Not really. No, no technology. I drink Athletic Greens daily, which- Hey, we got that in common too. Oh, cool. Yeah, actually. So that's a funny story. So Red Bull, I was, I- Did they let you go over to Athletic Greens?

Oh. Oh yeah, no, actually they introduced us to Athletic Greens. So I was doing, so I do a lot with their high performance program. And obviously, you were part of that before. What's up, Pear? Yeah. Isn't he like a wonderful human? He's amazing. He's like a good scientist. He's like the monster scientist. No, he's cool. And then actually, they have a younger guy his name's dan i'm in love

with him he's good he's fantastic he always is intuitive and creative and really cool but um i was over there over in red bull in january and they bought us a bunch of food because we were there for a few days and part of it was athletic greens and so i started drinking it there and i just got hooked i mean i I use it every day. And I mean, that's one thing I start my day with. I mean, every single day. Do you have a stutter? Yes, I do. And obviously, you've seen it.

But it's funny. So I think part of my development as a person is overcoming that and accepting that. It kind of runs in my family. So when I was growing up in fourth grade, I started to stutter in class. And I was always a straight A student and everything, but I couldn't say certain words. Like, for example, I wanted to say the word bird, but I could not pronounce or say the hard B. And so I would almost roll my eyes backwards to get it out of my, out of my mouth. It was terrible. There's the hard B again, even right now, right? Yeah, it was the most embarrassing thing ever. And so I actually went to speech therapy. My sister had a stutter, but not as bad as me. And so she went to speech therapy prior to me, but I went to like speech school for, and it was so embarrassing as a kid. Um,

I mean, I look back now and I'm sure glad I did it, but part of the process to help me kind of get through that, I was so determined as I did speeches in front of my school when I was in seventh grade and, and, uh, went and wanted to be the president of the school. And I had to do speeches and I went to speech classes. And so I kind of, I was determined at that time to kind of get through it. And then when I went to college, I still had to do presentations. And, you know, sometimes it's, it's a funny thing because it's, it's, it's not something I'm, I'm very much aware of it. And sometimes I change my words and it's just something you learn or some of the hard consonants

I change to a different word so I don't have to say it. Or like if someone were to say, you need to introduce yourself. I always, if you ever see me as, hi, my name's Angela. I can't just say Angela sometimes because I would get stuck on a and I've done research on it on why I have this stupid stutter, but it's you know

They they don't know a Angela and B and C's and like hard consonants are trigger Well, like like cat Tracy all those things are fine to say. It's like the word bird, like buh, buh. Sometimes like the hard vowels. And then also it's sometimes when I get really excited and it's almost like my mind's going too fast for what I want to say is how I could explain it. But then other times it's overthinking. What is it like to talk about it now? Oh, I think it's fine. Like I'm, I'm at a point where it's just who I am, you know, and the more that I am more accepting of who I am, the more the stutter goes away. So like a lot

of podcasts I've done when I first started, or I'm, I'm, I'm shy, or I have to do a speech after an award or something or a race or something. I stutter right away because, um, I'm nervous, you know, and that's part of what kind of, um, starts it. But then as I flow and I'm more in tune with who I am and what I'm doing, I kind of just relax inside as well. But, but it's not an anxiety it's more of a it's it's so hard to explain because it starts as an anxiety but then it's more comes from excitement that i want to get something out i want to explain something i want to i want to connect and and and i i think too fast for it to come out and flow properly yeah there you go and then what do you think that taught you as a young person growing up with that like what what was the unanticipated gift the unanticipated gift um

well when i was younger i didn't think it was a gift of course not yeah right and i'm sure sometimes as an adult you you you don't quite see it that way either but like but what if you really take a 30 000 foot view what has been the unanticipated gift? Acceptance of people, of differences. You know, it's accepting of your flaws. If I knew what you knew in your heart, what would I understand about the world? That we're all connected, that there's an interconnection with not only yourself and the world, but yourself and everything that you perceive, feel, see, every action.

We're all part of this energy. There's this energy. And is that a heartfelt thing? Because I was going to ask you the same question about if I was inside your mind, what would I know about the world? And is that a heartfelt thing or is that more of a cerebral cognitive thing? I think a little bit of both.

Definitely cognitive. um heartfelt thing is is the connection there's there's this there's this inner connection that we're all i mean maybe i'm still naive and learning the process but we all have this inner love we all have this inner we all just want goodness you know it's it's, um, everyone wants to be loved. There's, there's this love, this verb of love, but what is it? I don't know fully, you know, and it's part of this connection to your surroundings and people and life itself. Is there a phrase or word that guides your life? Um, there's not one that comes to my mind, but just to be open, to be aware or to become aware. Like,

okay. How do you get in your own way? Like, let's say that it's about being open and connected and integrated, right? Those are some themes and love. Yeah. Those have been some themes that have been happening for you. How do you get in your way? By taking assumptions, being concerned about what others think. thoughts or beliefs and spiraling down or looking at fear or shame or guilt of things I've done in the past and letting that actually ruminate inside me and grow because that just totally stagnates me. So if I start thinking about the future and assumptions and just based on fear, it spirals me.

And then so in this conversation, how much of your mind or thinking patterns are occupied with what I might be thinking of you and how much is, and the answer could be zero, and how much of you is entertaining the best way to figure out how to answer most accurately and there might be some other variants in there but that's usually kind of where people toggle i think i i actually quite honestly haven't thought about you thinking about me at all yeah yeah no i i it feels that way to me it doesn't feel like you're trying to manage or or present yourself in a particular way it really feels like you're trying to manage or present yourself in a particular way. It really feels like you're asking me a question, I'm like, I'm really thinking about it. Like, what does that actually mean to me? Like, like, I'm not trying to, I, I, I, I'm not thinking about you as a person wanting to know the answer. I'm, I, you're genuinely asking me a question

that I'm trying to figure out actually in my own mind. Yeah. That's what it feels like to me. That's what I was trying to get at. And maybe when you're at your worst, you know, is it, what is that relationship between those two variables? Oh, it's definitely different. It's, it's about what, what is this person thinking of me? Um, I'm maybe assuming that you are, are, are wanting the conversation to go a certain way or, um, that you already have a thought about me or you have you are you or you're almost against me or do you have triggers for that like things that environmental triggers or facial triggers or like do you have things that trigger that for you yes definitely like when someone um uh not not smirks but forget the word, the, someone who like gives you a negative look. Um, I'm just blanking on the, on the name. Um, let's call it a smirk for, for whatever.

Yeah. Or like rolls their eyes at you or, or just has some type of body language that is very negative to me. That is definitely like it like it sparks something that I've done something wrong or that they don't like me. Or if they say like words are really connected with me sometimes and maybe overly connected and I grab onto them. So if someone were to say something that I take on as an assumption that they don't like me or that they are disapproving or something like that. Those are triggers that I've really had to become aware of and kind of step back from.

Is your first response physiological or psychological? Physiological first because I feel it. And then where do you feel it and how do you feel it i feel in my chest definitely it's a feeling of of um like closure like tightness tight and then what do you do with that how do you what is the best way that you respond to that the best way i respond to it is um to actually feel it. So to not ignore it and actually let it come to this huge heightened feeling and then it just releases. If I try to simmer it down or back away from it or be defensive on it, it almost builds up more and more and more until

it's going to blow. And then I become a complete emotional mess until I talk to someone. So you don't breathe your way through it. Like acutely, when you acutely you're in a conversation, you feel that constriction in your chest because you've been triggered by something they've said or responded. And then you, you do a thing where you accept it you notice it and accept it yeah and and i and i would say that's only just recently so i would say breathing but you know that the work that i did up in toronto it was really neat we went through this guided meditation and part of it it was it was it was the best meditation but it was all about fear and that

feeling of like that constriction and And he guided us through this visualization. You're going up these steps and there's no handrails. And I could feel this tension of fear because it's really just about fear. And you could feel the apprehension and this building of this feeling. And it got to a point, you know, I'm lying on this bed and I'm just like sweating to death. I've done something similar, this, this mechanism in a guided imagery with somebody and, um, full induced panic attack. Oh my gosh. It's

nuts. Like, it sounds like you almost got there, right? Oh yeah. And so, and it's a part, it's a part of this whole guided thing is you go and you keep going up to this haunted house and you have to go and see the wicked witch. And, and like like it sounds like i did not do that yeah but your anxiety and your fear builds to this point that it is like a panic attack but then it comes to a point that you in this in this visualization you just flick a switch and it's just like um a jack-o'-lantern or whatever you you know, and it makes you laugh. And so I found myself laughing. And so after I did this visualization, I had some things come up in my life and I could feel this apprehension come up. And part of it was teaching me that it's okay to feel this, like your body is like your mind is telling you to just be aware. So it's that acceptance and feeling it. And then,

and then it just kind of disperses out like it let go and it was just such a neat experience oddly enough you can't hang on to those sensations too long because it's so exhausting right it's like so much easier for the the body's looking to figure it out and that signals there for a reason it's a healthy thing to have those responses and you know what that also tells me is that when you do that type of work and you can really absorb yourself in the images that you're creating in your mind, that your mind is strong to create such life-like images and that your body is attuned to your mind. So your thoughts and your images that you create are powerful, right? And then it gives you this way to feel them and then go, oh, I'm not going to die. Oh,

okay. Well, you know what? We can just let go of those. And now I've got a reference point for feeling and letting go. If I can do it there, I could do it maybe anywhere. And so, yeah, it's like, it's a great protocol. Very cool. Okay. Switch gears just quickly here. When you think back to you being, let's call it flow state.

Let's call it the most optimal state of performance that you can be in. Are you trying to make it happen or let it happen? Let it happen. So I look back at races that I've really felt that flow state and it just happens. It's this feeling of not thinking. It's when you start to think you're out of it. And so it's a feeling when my mind is completely blank it's like surrendering yeah yeah which is a funny word for athletes because yeah you know it's like they think it's negative yeah it gets loaded with like weakness you know like show you my underbelly i surrender white flag yeah you know it's not quite that okay so you're looking

for more flow and then do you have any ways that you are working to increase the frequency of you being able to let go and be on time with the present moment? You know, a lot of the times when I feel that I'm not in that present moment is I just take a deep breath, like a deep breath and exhale. And it's almost just this like subconscious or maybe conscious, I don't know, like just a reset. Like it just kind of brings you into the moment again, you know? And then other times is just get outside. You know, if I'm inside and things are getting into my mind and head, I just, I have a couple of dogs and I, I go and take them to the bathroom, you know, like I, I just need to get outside and breathe some fresh air or, um, change the environment. Um. And what does your mindfulness or meditation practice look like, if any?

I would say it needs help. It's funny because I know the benefit of it. And when I was in college, I lived with a Buddhist community, actually. I was really exploring different avenues. And I would do meditation every day. And we would go to these rituals. And then I did yoga meditation and Zen meditation. And, you know, over the years, I kind of come in and out of it. And sometimes I would do journaling. But now it's, you know,

a lot of my training is part of my meditation. And I know a lot of people may say that, but I don't like to ride with people. I don't like to ride with people. I don't like to run with people. Swimming, sometimes I do workouts with people, but it's a very individual process for me. And part of that is my meditation. And that actually transfers over to my racing because it's that flow state. It's that feeling of letting go. And it's, it's, it's when I, when I'm able to do that, um, in motion. And so I guess part of my problem, if I had a problem with it is, is I find this, this meditation process while I'm in motion, but then let's say you're, you have an injury or, you know, certain things like you need to be able to find that flow state and that feeling, feeling of calm when you're not in motion. Um, so that's something I still am struggling with personally that I have to find,

you know, what percentage of the time do you find flow? Are you in, let's call it high flow for just, you know, that, that almost blissful experience where you're, it's transcendent when I'm like every day or training.

Yeah. I don't know. Like I just want to kind of keep it open. I mean, I think not very much. And that's part like I would say 20%. It comes and goes. It's kind of like when you see a beautiful bird fly or you see, you know you watch the waves of the ocean or um you get these fleeting moments where you're you feel that and uh and then you know you you always have this

bombardment of thoughts going in your head and you know if you're doing work or what have you and um why do you think you're so good? I don't. Oh, really? That's a weird question. Good at what, I guess. I think I'm just trying to figure out who I am. Wait, wait, wait. I know you're going to do the humble thing. What are you asking me?

Yeah, because I can appreciate the humility that you have. Okay, hold on. I know appreciate the humility that you have. But okay, you're, okay, hold on. I know what I want to ask you before I go to, I want to go back to that question in a minute. I got a two part question. It's a little bit of a setup to give me some information before I get to the first one. The second question, how do your friends describe you? If I had to put my words into their mouth, I would assume that they would say, I'm hardworking. I never give up. I have a lot of grit. I'm a little bit crazy. I'm a little bit spur of the moment. I sometimes just go and do things.

I'm also an overthinker at the same time. Never settled. Extrem little trick that we just had right here. Interesting. Interesting. Interesting. So simple. Yeah, I know. But you didn't describe the thing that I thought you're going to describe. Oh, what was that? Because you have, and what is the word? You have a kindness, a sweetness, you have a gentleness about you that it comes through in this conversation and you didn't hit on that well maybe that's something i'm stuck on do people call you sweet or kind or yes a lot yeah definitely yeah and you don't maybe you haven't totally internalized that part of you maybe you know, I think I haven't because maybe I struggle with that because part of that is a vulnerability.

You know, it's I've been hurt before. But then I genuinely feel that everyone's nice. I, yeah, that's something I need to think about. There's an innocence to you, right? That even in just the way you said that last sentence, I respectfully completely disagree that everyone's nice. I mean, there's very bad people in this world. I'm sure there are.

Oh my goodness. Well, yes, I've seen movies and I've seen the news. Right, yeah, but you just haven't come across them. It sounds like, so you, you have that way about you that I think is really important part of, I don't know, at least how you're presenting now it's one thin slice, but there's something probably really special to mine there. And I was trying to get at like, what type of competitor are you? And you said something in your description of how other people quote, unquote, would describe you is that you're a little crazy. And like, so what does that mean?

Yeah, you know, I used to take it very negatively. Because, like, for example, the last two years with Lyme and stuff, we, and I say we, because my boyfriend and I created, you know, a race schedule. But part of the process of me healing from Lyme was to continue racing through whatever may be. And a lot of people probably wouldn't do that. And we got a lot of, a lot of talk on that. Like you're hurting yourself or like, you know, I, I broke my wrist this year and I had to have second surgeries and I actually raced with a cast on. Um, and then I crashed on my bike and I flew across the country to see if I could race again. But it's, it's that feeling of like the, what if,

you know, if I don't try, um, I'd rather fail, um, trying than not trying at all. Like, and, and so people thought that's crazy. That's not, she's putting herself in danger, but I wasn't in danger at all. I just trying you know and if I were to fail I'm okay with that why try so hard because I feel that if I'm not trying or I'm not doing what I want to do I'm I'm basing those decisions on fear and that fear is stay with it fear of what failing fear of and what is failure? Stay in it. What is failure? How do you operationalize that?

Not being true. Not trying something. Not going 100% into something. And if you don't go 100%, you fail. Yes, because you're being driven by other people's assumptions or fears that you have of yourself

are you running toward or running away when you're when you're in that state you're running away okay and so you've got lyme disease you're banged up you're borderline over training under recovered if not way past that line and you've got a busted up wrist and your community says, what are you doing? And you say, I'm trying. I'm seeing what I got. Okay. And then if you don't go and you take the path of health. But who's to say that that's not health, that what I'm doing is not the path of health. That's what I'm trying to sort out. Because I think that there's not health, that what I'm doing is not the path of health? That's what I'm trying to sort out.

Because I think that there's a really clear demarcation that in many ways, health ends where true high performance begins. And I don't like to say it because I don't think that people want to hear it. I agree with her at some point, definitely. You're all teeter-tottering on that edge for sure. Yeah. And I don't wish people to be cursed in the things that I've seen that are underneath the maniacal driven aspect of exploring potential. And I find myself so obsessed with this craft that I don't wish it on my peers. And so there's a cost to it.

Like that's what you and I were vibing about that. The dark side is that loneliness, that isolation required to go into the cages and the caves that sometimes people aren't willing to go into and it's sometimes hard to come out of. So like I want to understand though from you from that scratchy place or the healthy place, whatever you want to take me through, like, what are you trying to sort out? Who I am. Okay. But you don't, but you don't need to be busted up for it. No, no. And I mean, that's definitely not the route that I would want to take or do, but I guess it's, it's, it's the, it's the, okay, so I have a busted wrist. I can still swim.

That's a big deal. Yeah, I'm going to nod my head. It's a big deal on the busted wrist. But it's like the combination of things, you know, which is maybe the Lyme disease, this, that, and the other. But I guess it's the context because I would never put myself in danger. And that's what people assume. So people assume, okay, she's got Lyme disease. She's got all this stuff happening. But when I broke my wrist and say I went into a race, my Lyme disease was under control. I felt solid. I broke a wrist. Okay, maybe I to what I could be capable of. Would I be

putting out a performance of extreme high performance? No, because my body wasn't there. You know what's interesting? Sometimes, I just saw it last weekend up at the, you know, a game we had with the Seahawks is that there's an athlete that was under like, well, he was under less three hours of sleep, had a fantastic game, fantastic game. And why is that? Sometimes when we're depleted, we make it so simple that we get into a whole nother space. And so I'm not mad about playing with a broken wrist. I think that there's something to figure out there. But I'm trying to sort out for you because I love this thought about, you know, why this sport and what are you really trying to figure out?

And then my fear is for folks that I get to spend deep amount of time with, I don't have a fear for you because like I'm trying to learn from you is who are you without try? Yeah. And that's actually been a big. So when I first started talking to sports psychologists a couple of years ago and, you know know going through divorce when I felt more alone than ever yeah who am I without my partner yeah but like part of that brought that up like what am I going to do after I don't race professionally like like what is it and part of that was creating a community and and being connected with people it's all about how you connect with the sport itself and the people and and and and what it means to you. And so

I'm coming to a point that, that every, that like the racing is an opportunity. It's not something I'm clutching onto, but it's something that I get to experience and grow from rather than I have to do this. I have to make, make, um, world championships. I have to do well. I have to do all this stuff. It's more of like, this is, these are opportunities in my life to see what I have to do well, I have to do all this stuff. It's more of like, this is these are opportunities in my life to see what I have inside who I am, what it's going to, how I'm going to learn from it and grow from it. And just having that little slight change in perspective has been huge. You know, for example, last year, I like I like, I've had a lot of things happen over the years. And when I got diagnosed with Lyme last year, you know, I and I was in a lot of things happen over the years. And, um, when I got diagnosed with Lyme last year, you know, I, and I was in the midst of it all. And my boyfriend sat me down and he's like,

what do you want to get out of this year? And I said, I want to get to world championships. And so he's like, okay, we're going to make it happen. We raced like five Ironmans, like, like something you just don't do. So everyone thought I was crazy, but that like, they did not understand the context because, because of my, because I wasn't going as hard as I could. My body was recovering as much as it could. And it was it was what I wanted. And so so I went for it. But part of the the idea of people thinking I'm crazy or whatever. I've had some of my best races going into a race totally unprepared, thinking that like, people blowing me off. Like last year, I placed eighth at Kona. And I mean, I had, I had an entire year of Lyme and like,

I raced five Ironmans. I mean, I was not in a position to become top 10. But it was it was it was that opportunity and that mindset that I went in of like, this is what I love. I want to experience this. I want to have this as my, as an experience and see what I have. And it just catapulted me. I mean, and that's what I thrive for. And so that was just such a prime example. And that's kind of taken me to this year. You know, I had a broken wrist and had to have resurgery and it's like, I'm not going to let something that I think people, like if they have something, hold them back, even though they are capable of doing something. It's a, it's a mind shift. I think what you're trying to sort out is what am I capable of?

That's what, yeah. What am I capable of as a woman, as a human, right? Like what are, what am I capable of? And you know, that if you really want to be on that mission, you're going to have to figure out how to do things when it's hard. Oh, a hundred percent. So how important is the mental aspect for your craft? I think probably a hundred percent. Well, you have to have some physical lung capacity. I mean, obviously you got to have some type one fibers in there. Yeah. So like, it's not a fair question. Yeah. I think you need to take the time to reflect. You need to take the time of knowing why you're doing what you're doing or why you're feeling the way you are.

How would you break out the importance if it's mind, body, and craft, technical, physical, and psychological? Well, it depends what sport you're talking about because this one is very technical. Yeah. Let's just say triathlete in general. Yeah. Let's go triathlete in general. Okay. So, sorry.

So, what were they again? Technical, physical, and mental. I would say it's 40% mental and probably 30% physical well actually no 40% physical 20% technical so you've got a big engine you can pound your way through

with poor technique and be okay but if you had a big engine meaning body and your mind was really strong, you would kind of hammer your way through. Yeah. It's better.

It's better when you have technique involved. Yeah. Yeah. All right. I've got a couple of little quick hits I want to give you. Right. And so pressure comes from. Internally.

It all comes down to me the crossroad of my life was crossroad was uh when i left home basically i left when i was 18 but i also left um so i was actually engaged had the white picket fence all that stuff full-time job, everything. But I wanted to pursue triathlon. And so I left Canada when I was 26 with $2,000 in my bank account and see what happens. Risk taker. How about it? Oh, yeah. Success is?

Opportunity, like trying opportunity. My vision? Awareness, openness. opportunity like um try an opportunity my vision um awareness openness it's really cool all right awesome i would love this conversation so thank you yeah for exploring with me a little bit here and then last kind of um big hit is how do you think about or define or even articulate mastery? It's an ongoing process. I mean, it's, it's just never ending. And would you say there's a habit that is a cornerstone habit for you to explore mastery? Constant change, constant, um, movement. And if you could sit with one person and they were,

they exemplified mastery, they're dead or alive. It doesn't matter to me. Like who would that person be? Socrates, maybe. Socrates. Oh, the Socratic methods.

Yeah. So it, that's perfect because he was about questions. Yeah. Is there a question you'd want to ask Socrates? If he would know the answer, I would just say, how do I get to know myself? Like, who am I? I mean, that's the ultimate question of what I'm about.

Too fun. All right. Angela, thank you. Where can people find you? Like, where's the right place? How do they get part of your community? I'm really active on Instagram. So it's just Angela Nath at Angela Nath. Um, the, the team that I created a few years back is called I race like a girl. So it's at, so I race like a girl.com. Um, you can contact me at Angela Nath.com

Facebook. I mean, I'm on everything. So, and when folks are in, I race like a girl.com in your, in your community, what do you hope they'll figure out? Or like, what are you trying to do in your community there? The biggest thing is to help inspire, you know, there's, there's so many times where people think that they can and can't do something. Like, for example, I'm with my mom here in Cabo and, you know, a lot of times, like even just to go swim, she's, she's, she's right away fearful of going past her chest, you know, and it's, it's that, it's that, it's that trying to get rid of people's fears and help, help inspire them through a group of people. Like, like we have women on the team that are in their sixties doing triathlon. And that is so inspiring to me. And, and, and,

and they get so excited when they when they when they do a certain distance or or what have you and so bringing that together and and helping each other build to a better self um i mean that's that's just so rewarding to me it's um it's fun awesome awesome thank Awesome. Thank you again. Cool. Well, thanks for the conversation. That was fun. Yeah, that was great.

I loved it. All the best. I'm looking forward to watching you and following what you're doing. So, yep. Thank you. Thank you. Take care. Take care. Bye.

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