Finding Mastery with Dr. Michael Gervais - Steve Kerr, Golden State Warriors Head Coach

Episode Date: January 23, 2019

This week’s conversation is with Steve Kerr, head coach of the Golden State Warriors.Currently in his fifth season as head coach, Steve has guided the club through four of the most prolific... seasons in NBA history with a list of accomplishments that includes:Three NBA championshipsFour-straight NBA Finals appearancesThe NBA’s single-season wins record (73)An NBA Coach of the Year award (2015-16)Four of the five winningest seasons in franchise historySteve, who won five NBA championships during a 15-year playing career, now owns eight championships as either a player or coach, becoming the first to win three NBA titles as a player and three as a coach.So I think it’s clear – Steve understands winning but he’s searching for something beyond that.He has made it a point to revolve the Warriors’ culture around joy.In this conversation, we discuss how Steve went about building the Warriors’ culture, what he’s most hungry for, and his biggest challenge at the moment – finding a way to keep the Warriors motivated and playing with joy after they’ve already experienced so much previous success.Steve is one of the brightest minds in the game of basketball and I think you’re going to love his insights on not just basketball, but life as a whole._________________Subscribe to our Youtube Channel for more powerful conversations at the intersection of high performance, leadership, and meaning: https://www.youtube.com/c/FindingMasteryGet exclusive discounts and support our amazing sponsors! Go to: https://findingmastery.com/sponsors/Subscribe to the Finding Mastery newsletter for weekly high performance insights: https://www.findingmastery.com/newsletter Download Dr. Mike's Morning Mindset Routine! https://www.findingmastery.com/morningmindsetFollow us on Instagram, LinkedIn, and X.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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Starting point is 00:00:58 stay present and engaged with my thinking and writing. If you wanna slow down, if you wanna work smarter, I highly encourage you to check them out. Visit remarkable.com to learn more and grab your paper pro today. There's obviously a kind of a magic that, that comes together when it all works. And, and that magic is dependent on so many people and, you know, obviously talent, but people being invested in the same thing, meaning management and ownership and players. And so if you get the right people and talented people and you get them invested and you can sort of give them a vision and practice that vision every day, that's when you see it start to come together. And to me, that's the most exciting part of coaching. All right. Welcome back or welcome to the Finding Mastery podcast. I am Michael Gervais,
Starting point is 00:02:06 and by trade and training, I'm a sport and performance psychologist. And the whole idea behind these conversations is to learn and then apply those learnings to your own life. And we want to learn from people who have committed their life efforts to the path of mastery. And inside of that, we want to understand what they're searching for. We want to understand their psychological framework, which is how they make sense of their internal world, how they make sense of events around them. And we also want to dig to understand the mental skills that they use to build and refine their craft. Finding Mastery is brought to you by LinkedIn Sales Solutions. In any high-performing environment that I've been part of, from elite teams to executive boardrooms, one thing holds true. Meaningful relationships are
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Starting point is 00:04:51 What do you mean one a day? There's way more than that happening here. Don't tell. Okay. All right. Look, they're incredibly simple. They're effective. 28 grams of protein, just 150 calories and zero grams of sugar. It's rare to find something that fits so conveniently into a performance-based lifestyle and actually tastes good. Dr. Peter Atiyah, someone who's been on the show, it's a great episode by the way, is also their chief science officer. So I know they've done their due diligence in that category. My favorite flavor right now is the chocolate chip cookie dough. And a few of our teammates here at Finding Mastery have been loving the fudge brownie and peanut butter. I know, Stuart, you're still listening here. So getting enough protein matters.
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Starting point is 00:06:17 And if you're familiar with basketball, you know that they have been on an absolute tear for the last handful of years. It's been an amazing building of team chemistry and performance that Steve has been part of and at the helm of. And it's just flat out ridiculous what they've done. And so this conversation is working to unpack and decode how. How has he done that? Who has he become? And who is he working on becoming? And what is the path that led him to both of those places? And more specifically, this is his fifth year as head coach with the team. And during that time, he's helped the team towards three NBA championships, four straight NBA final appearances, the NBA single season win record, 73 wins, an NBA coach of the year award
Starting point is 00:07:00 in 2015, 2016, and four of the five winningest seasons in franchise history. I mean, it's loaded. So Steve, who won five NBA championships during a 15-year playing career, now has eight championships either as a player and a coach. And he's the first to win three NBA titles as a player and three as a coach. So outcome, yes, he's got it. But this conversation is not about the outcome. It's about the process. It's about the way he thinks and organizes his life. And for those of you unfamiliar with the Seattle Seahawks, which is
Starting point is 00:07:36 an NFL team, the head coach at that organization is Pete Carroll. He's also a partner in a business that we fired up together called Compete to Create. And his whole philosophy inside of that organization is to always compete. Compete to become the best version of yourself. Compete to be a best dad, the best son, the best friend, the best coach, the best player, whatever the role is at hand. And Steve has made a point to revolve the Warriors culture around joy. And in this conversation, we discuss how Steve went on about building the Warriors culture and what he is most hungry for, his biggest challenges at the moment, and then finding a way to keep the Warriors driven and hungry and playing with joy after they've already experienced so much previous success. And so winning after winning, success after success is a whole different type
Starting point is 00:08:31 of challenge. And Steve has a brilliant mind, a beautiful mind. And the way he expresses that genius inside of basketball is rare and it's unique. And I think you're going to love his insights, not just for basketball though, but life as a whole. And with that, let's jump right into this conversation with coach Steve Kerr. Steve, how are you? I'm good. How are you, Mike? Yeah. Thanks for taking the time. I've been looking forward to having this conversation with you for a while. My pleasure. Yeah. So the first time we met, it was a number of years ago up at the Seahawks. And it was really exciting to see how you were getting your head around your philosophy and what it is that you wanted to do, you know, as a beginning coach, as a beginning
Starting point is 00:09:22 phase of your life of coaching. And I just want to say, wow, congratulations on what you've done and how you've done it. Like remarkable. Well, thank you. Um, yeah, I never could have imagined that our team would have this kind of success. Um, I, I knew I was taking a really good job. I knew we had a lot of talent, but to think that it would all come together like this, I never could see that coming. But it really was a great time for me that summer trying to figure out how I wanted to coach. And my visit to Seattleattle seeing you seeing pete watching the seahawks practice for a few days just seeing their culture seeing their environment was a huge influence on me
Starting point is 00:10:13 and and it continues to be so you know pete pete remains a good friend and and we talk quite a bit and i love the way he goes about his business. And, you know, that, that was a big experience for me in terms of, uh, you know, helping me, uh, become the coach that I am now. You know, one of the things that struck me about that brief, intense time that we had was how great of a student you are. And you, now I'm saying that and you've won, I think to date eight championships and you, you won a handful, five of them as a player. And then like to watch you learn, I was like, okay, here we go. Because you write like your egos out of it. And you're already, you know, you've already been the best in the world for a long time. Like your ego's out of it. Curiosity is front facing and the thirst to really understand, not to try to parrot,
Starting point is 00:11:10 not to try to take or steal someone else's tactic. It's like so much deeper and authentic. Like, how does that work? And I can see you working to say, how could that work for me? No, no, no, no, no, I'm not going to use that. That's that, that would never work for me. But how are you like, how could I use this? And it was, it was beautiful. Yeah. Well, thanks. It was, uh, it was, uh, life-changing for me really to, um, to sit and hear Pete's story. Um, you know, that the, the, the best thing that, that he told me was that he didn't really figure out how to coach until he left the NFL and took a few years off and, and, uh, I maybe, maybe a year or two, and then went to USC. He said, when I went to USC, I finally figured it out.
Starting point is 00:11:58 I said, well, what does that even mean? You know, cause I, I always, I always would watch coaches and admire them. I would focus more on probably their offense or their defense or, you know, what the team's identity was. And I wasn't exactly sure, you know, how to sort of get that far, you know, what the nitty gritty every day. And that's, that was really the key for me with that trip was learning from Pete sort of how to impose your own like, like in a, in sort of a graph, um, and, and, and putting it all together so that it looked in my mind, like, oh yeah, this makes sense. You know, these are my values. This is, this is what I want my team to look like. And this is how I'm going to get there. Um, and, and it was, uh, it was, it was really eyeopening because I had never had anybody explain coaching to me that way before. You know, I appreciate what you just said,
Starting point is 00:13:10 because for me it was super stimulating as well. So it sounds like, you know, like, yeah, I think that that's part of where genius comes from is this madness kind of empty white space and then starting to put together some ideas and then applying those ideas, right? Consistently. Right. And if it's not organic, if it's not authentic, it will fail. Right. I think that's the key. Yeah. It has to be, has to be authentic. Um, it has to be organic. And then, you know, there, there's obviously, uh, kind of a magic that comes together when it all works. And that magic is dependent on so many people and obviously talent, but people being invested in the same thing, meaning management and ownership and players. And so if you get the right people and talented people and you get them invested and you can sort of give them a vision and practice that vision every day, that's when
Starting point is 00:14:15 you see it start to come together. And to me, that's the most exciting part of coaching. I think you just said something that I haven't heard someone say before, but is really important. One is you started with the collective and then you moved into, meaning that we, no one does this alone. Right. And I think your organization was just awarded for like player of the year, but it was the organization, right? Like that's what's special. So, okay. So that's coming from that perspective for you as well, or influenced and captured in that way. But then you said something like having a vision, sharing that vision, and then the vision, I think the vision changes a little bit once, which is healthy, which, you know, when we have other people
Starting point is 00:15:00 weigh in and their texture and their fabric in a very complicated ecosystem of human relationships. It shifts just a little bit to be an organic shared vision and then practicing the vision. Like, how about it? How do you practice the vision? I love the thought. That's so right. Like, how do you practice it? Well, I think, you know, what I learned from Pete on that visit was, you know, I specifically asked him.
Starting point is 00:15:28 I said, what do you mean you didn't figure out how to coach until you got to USC? What does that mean? And he said, I realized that every day had to be a reflection of my values as a coach. And those values had to be practiced and it couldn't be just you know you go into any team's practice center or gym or arena locker room you got all the slogans all over the place right it's it's not about a slogan wall it's about what your day looks like and and what what it feels like when you walk into the gym. And so I asked Pete, you know, what does that mean for you? And he said, well, it meant,
Starting point is 00:16:12 you know, finding the four or five things that were most important to me in my life. What were the values that I held most dear? And then how can I practice those things every day? And I said, well, give me an example. He said, competition. He said, I love to compete. It's my favorite thing, whether it's playing horse, playing Monopoly with the family, whatever. I just love to compete.
Starting point is 00:16:40 And so every day with the Seahawks, we compete. Every drill, there's a winner and a loser. We're always competing. And that's when it started to make sense to me because I watched them practice. I watched these one-on-one drills with each position group, and they're all fired up because they're competing, and they're going back and forth and talking trash. It looks so much fun but that that directly related to you know pete's personality and so that day he said and yet you you and i talked about this that day pete said you know find find your four values what are they you know write down maybe 10 things that are really important to you. Go home tonight, go back to the hotel, think about them and distill them down to the most
Starting point is 00:17:30 important four. You know, what are your key four values? And then, then you start thinking about how do you implement those four values into your everyday existence as a team. And when those things sort of collide and intersect, now that's when you can say we have a team culture. That's when you start building something that feels tangible to the players, even if they're not aware of what's in front of them and they just feel it when they come to the gym every day. You know what's really cool about that is that that list started from you. And then you had the discernment to get it down to your four.
Starting point is 00:18:12 So it's not like taking the four from X organization, you know, whether it's in business or sport. It's not like, oh, well, that's working. Let me take theirs. Because as soon as you get punched in the mouth, it's not really real. It's like, oh my God, I don't know what I'm doing. You know? And so, okay. So, uh, have you talked publicly about what your four are? Um, I think I have. Um, I know that, uh, I think one day at practice, the media actually saw the four values on our grease board. And so we talk about them once or twice a year in front of the group.
Starting point is 00:18:51 We talk about this whole idea of what we're trying to accomplish. And so the media got a look at it. And I think I've been asked about it a couple of times. So I have shared some of that publicly. Can you share one of them? Sure. If you want to share all four, cool.. Can you share one of them? Sure. If you want to share all four, cool. But can you share one of them that sits at the center for you?
Starting point is 00:19:10 Yeah, I mean, I'm happy to share them all. But I think the one that means is critical to our group in particular because I think it's reflected in the way we play. And, you know, if you watch Steph Curry, sometimes you just think he's a kid at the park just loving basketball. And it's actually an NBA playoff game, you know, but he's out there smiling and laughing and posing. And it's incredible to see the power that comes from the joy that Steph exhibits and that spreads throughout our team because it you realize that when as it's happening it's like it's not just you know we just executed a play or you know we just won the battle for a loose ball or boxed out or did something good from a fundamental standpoint. It's just how much fun the guys are having. And when, when they're having fun and they're enjoying it,
Starting point is 00:20:28 they're more likely to be good at it. And so joy is important in every single day of our practice. And, and so it's manifested in a lot of different ways. We have a, we basically covered the walls of our practice facility with pictures of our guys in action, smiling, uh, celebrating championships, holding up trophies. Um, you know, we wanted that joy to, to be visible, uh, in the, on the, on the walls of our facility.
Starting point is 00:21:01 But that's not enough. It's exhibited every day in our film sessions, which I saw with Pete in Seattle. He and his group are so good with the film sessions and editing, funny stuff, lines from movies, keep the guys laughing, keep them loose, that kind of stuff. We celebrate every birthday, whether it's a player, a trainer, every person who's a part of our group. We try to celebrate that person's individual life
Starting point is 00:21:35 and contribution to the team. And this is a daily exercise. It's a big part of kind of who we are. And I think it matters. I really think it helps bring out the like stress debilitates intuition, you know, and I should say not stress, but fear and anxiety and distress, right? Like it debilitates intuition, it decreases our ability to find flow. And so there, there's a real science behind the value and joy. I think people become so afraid of being joyful that they said, no, no, no, that can't, we need to be hard. Right.
Starting point is 00:22:27 Right. And so, you know, you've taken a complete industry by storm by valuing joy. And, and it's not, but it's not just lip service. A lot of times you'll see on, in organizations, the key tenants or the sloganism that runs throughout the organization and it doesn't really mean anything. Right. Right. And so that, that's where your alignment, like, no, no, no. I, I want to live with joy guys, you know, what do you guys think? And what that must, do you remember when you shared that word with, with your crew? I do. I do. It was, It was probably a couple of months into our first season and we were doing really well. We got off to a really hot start, but I wasn't comfortable yet kind of sharing these thoughts. I really wanted to see how they would manifest themselves and if this could feel real.
Starting point is 00:23:22 And it did. And it did almost right away. And, and, uh, it was probably December, you know, maybe a quarter of the way through the season. And, um, we had a practice session basically that was dedicated to, uh, more of a film session, but dedicated to this whole idea of, of, you know, who we were going to be and how it was going to happen. And we talked a lot about joy. And at practice right afterwards, Steph, because he's Steph, was just running around and shrieking and laughing and saying, Coach, I'm having joy out here. Look at me.
Starting point is 00:24:02 I'm having joy. That's when you know it's real, when you're getting clowned, huh? That's right. Yes, yes. But I will say this, though. I don't know that this is something you can do necessarily, but when your values match those of you know your best player that's that's a really powerful force you know so that first year you know Steph is he was the MVP
Starting point is 00:24:38 that season and he took to that so dramatically because it was really part of who he was. But another one of the values that I set forth to the team was compassion, which is another one that might be a little bit off the beaten path in the world of competitive sports. But Steph is one of the most compassionate people that I know and you know the idea being this is a this is a dream job but it's not an easy one you know you're competing against the best athletes in the world you're laying it out there every day for millions of people to not only see but comment on, judge you by.
Starting point is 00:25:28 And I think it's really important that we all show compassion for each other within the group. And that's exactly who Steph is too. Watching all this unfold and I go, you know, my gosh, I wanted these values to be displayed because this is who I am and this is what's important to me and I'm the coach. But these are all the values of the MVP of the league who's on our team. It couldn't have worked out any better. Finding Mastery is brought to you by Momentus. When it comes to high performance, whether you're leading a team, raising a family, pushing physical limits, or simply trying to be better today than you were yesterday, what you put in your body matters. And that's why I trust Momentus. I sat down with Jeff Byers, their co-founder and CEO. I could tell this was not your average supplement company. And I was immediately drawn to their mission, helping people achieve performance for life. And to do that, they developed what they call the Momentus Standard.
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Starting point is 00:28:31 yourself, Felix Gray is offering all Finding Mastery listeners 20% off. Just head to FelixGray.com and use the code FindingMastery20 at checkout. Again, that's Felix Gray. You spell it F-E-L-I-X-G-R-A-Y.com and use the code findingmastery20 at felixgray.com for 20% off. Okay. So, and again, I want to say out loud, you didn't look at your best player and say, okay, let's model the culture after him. These words were your words, were your principles that matter to you. And I want to bring up something that I know is intense as well as foundational shaping for you as your father. And there's a quote that, that I read about, you know, your dad was a brilliant man, obviously. And he says the truly civilized man is marked by empathy.
Starting point is 00:29:30 And when you hear that, what, what happens for you? Well, it's interesting. Um, I didn't know that quote until, um, the author, the writer who wrote, wrote this particular article, uh, about me in the new york times john branch uh he looked at some of my dad's old um writings and he was a he was an academic and he wrote books on middle east politics and history and and um so when i saw that quote, when John pulled it out of the archives and showed it to me, it was amazing. It was awe-inspiring because there's no question that's why it's in my blood because it comes from not just for me. It comes from my family, my dad. And, um, so that was really powerful, um, for me to, to read that and to, to feel that, that, that was, uh, exhibited in our, our own team and the way, uh, the way our guys play and the way our guys,
Starting point is 00:30:41 uh, treat each other. It made me feel really good. I can't imagine. And when I say brilliant, I mean, it's not by accident that somebody becomes the president of the American University of Beirut. And, you know, you lived in a very dangerous environment for, you know, that period of time. And I know that you had to leave suddenly. And I want to understand what that early life was like for you when you lost your father and you were a young man that had invested lots of time and talent into basketball and needed to leave. Like, what was that like for you? Um, it was, um, yeah, it was really difficult. Um, you know, my, uh, I finished my high school, uh, years in Los Angeles. My dad was a professor at UCLA and, and, um, and he took the job in Beirut, uh, I think during my maybe sophomore year of high school. And so he took the job and was gone quite a bit the last,
Starting point is 00:31:49 my last couple of years of high school while I finished. And so I was, you know, just looking, moving on to college basketball, going to the University of Arizona, looking forward to everything that was ahead. And that's when my dad was killed. And so it was, you know, when you're 18 and something like that happens, you can't even comprehend it. It's just so shocking.
Starting point is 00:32:18 It just jolts everything in your world. And you just sort of start over again in a lot of ways. You know, you just, you just keep going, but you kind of pick up the pieces and that's what everybody in our family had to do. And, you know, we did it separately, but together as well. And everybody has been able to, to, you know, live, live really productive lives, live well, and I'm proud of all of them. And what would you share as an insight to somebody who lives, I don't want to say fairy tale, but you had a really good life, right? And you've had an extraordinary life. And then all of a sudden tragedy strikes. And how would you, because that is kind of how it happens. It's not like people that have tragedy in their life, like they knew all along that tragedy as a young man, what insights could you pass on to me or even that I could maybe pass on to the next generation?
Starting point is 00:33:34 How can you help us there? Well, I think it's important what you just said. You can't prepare for it. Nobody knows something like that's going to happen. And yet, almost, almost no one goes through life without dealing with, with, you know, real adversity, you know, tragedy, you know, losing a loved one, you know, going through health issues, whatever it is. Nobody's immune. And I think the important thing to remember and that I think about a lot as I'm living and coaching is just perspective, keeping perspective, maybe especially when things are going well um you can't sort of walk around with gloom
Starting point is 00:34:28 and doom thinking oh my god it's all going to fall apart you know something bad's going to happen but you just i think it's important to go through life um counting your blessings too you know each day um being thankful for you know your family for your career whatever it is you're thankful for your family, for your career, whatever it is you're thankful for. I think those things need to be acknowledged. You can't just let them slide by every day. And I think that's a – honestly, it's a big part of coaching. It's one of the best things that Greg Popovich did for me when I played
Starting point is 00:35:04 and does for his teams now. He provides this amazing perspective. And it's probably similar to, you know, when you're little and you don't eat everything on your plate and your parents say, you know, hey, they're starving kids in China. You know, did you ever get that when you were a kid? I did. I didn't understand it. I was like, I don't. It was too young. I was like, Did you ever get that when you were a kid? I did. I didn't understand it. I was too young. I was like, I don't get that. What's that got to do with my asparagus? Exactly. What does that even mean?
Starting point is 00:35:37 There's some wisdom in that. There's a lot of people suffering. There's a lot of hardship all over the world. And, you know, here we are. Oh, man, we got to come into practice. You know, we've had three games the last four nights and, you know, we're not playing well. We got to come in and work. Oh, man, this is really tough, you know. And Pop was great because he had a really good sarcastic sense of humor, but he had this way of just balancing out life perspective with the reality of what we were facing every day. And that's something I try to do with our guys, too. If you could put on your best Greg Popovich voice, what would he say and how would he say it?
Starting point is 00:36:22 Like, what is that? I'd love to have, have like your perspective of that. Well, Pop, I think his genius is that like a great parent, he loves his players unconditionally. And because he loves them, he holds them to really high standards. And so you face both when you play for him. No matter what you do, you realize quickly, man, this guy really cares about me. You know, he knows your kids' names. He's asking you about things way beyond basketball.
Starting point is 00:37:00 He's getting to know you. And then, you know, you're coming to work every day and you're not bullshitting. Like you can't get away with stuff that, you know, a lot of players try to get away with, you know, skipping practice, not going that hard. He sees all of that and he immediately calls you out on it holds you accountable for it and does it with the whole team and you know pop will always tell you in an interview i've seen it a million times that because he inherited david robinson and tim duncan and they allowed him to coach them the way he did. Everybody else had to fall in line. And that's the truth. Your best players have to accept coaching. But I think almost everybody would have fallen in line anyway with Pop because he's so genuine. He's so compassionate. He's so competitive.
Starting point is 00:38:01 He's got this amazing balance between life perspective and the details of hard work that have to go into winning at this level and a respect for everybody involved. And he just looks after everybody, but he doesn't give anybody any excuses either. And he gets away with it because of his charisma and his great personality and the fact that we all knew he genuinely cared about us. I've heard that from players that I know on the team that say practice is scary and it's balanced because there's some depth on the other side of it.
Starting point is 00:38:49 And so what I hear you saying is high standards, accountability and deep care. Like that's right. Right. And then so you I mean, you've learned some from legends. OK, so Phil Jackson, what did you learn from one of the great coaches of all time? Oh, man. Where do I begin? Yeah. Phil was the most unique coach i ever had um you know he uh he imparted his wisdom through storytelling um you know he was a he grew up in South Dakota near an Indian tribe and fell in love with Native American history and spirituality. When he was a player for the Knicks, he used to run basketball camps on reservations. And so we had this film room where we would gather every morning before practice that was adorned with Native American artifacts and history. And he used the tribe as a metaphor for our team.
Starting point is 00:39:57 We were a tribe, and this is how a tribe or a small community has to function. And it was so genuine because of Phil's background and so authentic that it was just powerful to to to gather each day and to hear him talk about how important our community was. And he just used all these different stories and thoughts that that I've made perfect sense and he had this amazing way of doing so okay Lute Olson and also and then I've got a couple more insights that I want to understand from you. So Lute Olsen, legendary coach, Arizona Wildcats, early influence for you, I would imagine. Yeah, yeah. Probably the biggest influence for me in terms of getting my career going, you know, because I was not a highly recruited player by any means. And I didn't really
Starting point is 00:41:06 ever think about playing in the NBA. I thought, you know, I was hoping I could play in college. And I didn't think it would go beyond that. So, yeah, playing for Lute gave me sort of the foundation for everything that I've done since in my career. But he showed me and the rest of our guys how to build something from scratch. When I got to Arizona, it was Lute's first year, and they were literally the worst team in the country the year before, 4-24. I think it was the worst record in the entire country. So he had to build everything from the ground up. And to be part of that, to see how he did it,
Starting point is 00:41:55 incredibly high standards in practice, but a culture of family that existed in many ways, but, you know, included his wife, Bobby, who was like the team mom and how we all felt, you know, special and part of something special. And then he would just grind us for three hours every day. Similar, I guess, you know, similar sort of characteristics to Greg Popovich, you know, hard work, you know, accountability, but a lot of empathy as well. And then, so go back to coach Phil Jackson. What were the one, two or three things that he, that you learned from, or that he exemplified or, or even that he poured into you?
Starting point is 00:42:43 So we got, we got Greg, there's some clarity. Lute sounds like there's some similarity, but from scratch. And then what, what would you say the essence from your experience with coach Jackson was? Um, I think, um, I think what I took from him was the, uh, his real genius was, um, was not so much the X's and O's. He was a very good X's and O's coach. A lot of people have read about the triangle offense and how that was the offense that was run by the Bulls and the Lakers in, I think, 11 championship runs in the NBA. But the offense was almost a metaphor for how Phil wanted the team to interact. It was a five-man offense. Everybody was constantly moving and touching the ball.
Starting point is 00:43:40 And you had to have really good instincts and feel, and you had to have really good instincts and feel and you had to work together. And so I think that was what I took from Phil was that, like, you know, he used to say basketball is a metaphor for life and life is a metaphor for basketball. And I like that because it's truth. How you live your life and how you play the game, they sort of intersect. They matter. And the triangle was sort of the it that way, but where the style of play really represented the values. Finding Mastery is brought to you by Cozy Earth. Over the years, I've learned that recovery doesn't just happen when we sleep.
Starting point is 00:44:39 It starts with how we transition and wind down. And that's why I've built intentional routines into the way that I close my day. And Cozy Earth has become a new part of that. Their bedding, it's incredibly soft, like next level soft. And what surprised me the most is how much it actually helps regulate temperature. I tend to run warm at night and these sheets have helped me sleep cooler and more consistently, which has made a meaningful difference in how I show up the next day for myself, my family, and our team here at Finding Mastery. It's become part of my nightly routine. Throw on their lounge pants or pajamas, crawl into bed under their sheets, and my nervous system starts to settle.
Starting point is 00:45:17 They also offer a 100-night sleep trial and a 10-year warranty on all of their bedding, which tells me, tells you that they believe in the long-term value of what they're creating. If you're ready to upgrade your rest and turn your bed into a better recovery zone, use the code FINDINGMASTERY for 40% off at CozyEarth.com. That's a great discount for our community. Again, the code is Finding Mastery for 40% off at CozyEarth.com. Finding Mastery is brought to you by Caldera Lab. I believe that the way we do small things in life is how we do all things. And for me, that includes how I take care of my body. I've been using Caldera Lab for years now. And what keeps me coming back, it's really simple. Their products are simple and they reflect
Starting point is 00:46:06 the kind of intentional living that I want to build into every part of my day. And they make my morning routine really easy. They've got some great new products I think you'll be interested in. A shampoo, conditioner, and a hair serum. With Caldera Lab, it's not about adding more. It's about choosing better. And when your day demands clarity and energy and presence, the way you prepare for it matters. If you're looking for high quality personal care products that elevate your routine without complicating it, I'd love for you to check them out. Head to calderalab.com slash finding mastery and use the code finding mastery at checkout for 20% off your first order. That's caldera lab, C-A-L-D-E-R-L-A-B dot com slash finding mastery. Steve, what are you
Starting point is 00:46:55 craving in life? What are you aching for? What are you, what are you driven by? Like, what is the deeper part of your life? Um, what, what is that for you? Because I know it's not winning. And at the same time, that's kind of the placeholder for everything that you're doing. And we all have to win in elite sport and life. There's lots of ways to measure winning. But what is it that you're aching for above all? That's a good question. I think as a coach what i ache for is the the perfect game which is not not just winning um winning the game but it's that feeling when everybody is connected and joyful and competing together. And, you know, there's no feeling like it.
Starting point is 00:47:53 You can't find it in most areas of life, but you can feel it. It's why I love sports so much you can when it happens or you sometimes you can even see it on tv when you're watching another team but when a group kind of reaches this uh this level where it's it sort of um exceeds just the talent and the and uh the you know the number of points you score, the one loss record. That's what I love more than anything about coaching is maximizing potential, but more than anything, just feeling that and the whole group feeling this electricity that goes through it as it happens. That's the most important.
Starting point is 00:48:48 Are you describing like a group flow? Like individual flow is when you are merged and immersed in the moment with action and awareness and it's this like, you know, the zone, if you will, is what athletes would call it. Are you talking about group flow in that way? It's exactly what I'm talking about. Okay. Yeah.
Starting point is 00:49:04 And then of all things, Steve, why that? Why that for you? I think that's what life is about. Not meaning to sound dramatic, but whatever you do, uh, in life to me, there's, there's more joy in doing something with someone else, um,
Starting point is 00:49:34 than rather than doing it on your own. And there's a, there's a level to reach that is hard to describe. You know, when you're in the zone, when your team is in the zone, and you walk into the locker room, you can't describe that feeling. So it's like that's the feeling that is most important to me. That's what I live for. It's probably what musicians seek or artists. Whatever your own venue is, when you can achieve that sort of group flow, there's nothing else that can match it.
Starting point is 00:50:20 And that's what I am constantly hoping for our team to achieve. When was the last time you felt full peace? That's a good question. And I'll set it up for you, not give you a little space to even think through it, because you guys are like, it's bigger than legacy what you've done in capturing the hearts and spirits and minds to amplify the talent of the organization of the warriors is incredible right and it's beautiful and it's not you're not doing it by accident and you're doing it organically and it feels like I'm watching these amazing
Starting point is 00:51:05 flock of birds, like a hundred birds in the sky. And when one wants to tilt one way and kind of dip down and dive, like everyone organizes around that, that signal and they dive as well. And then another bird wants to flip up towards, you know, you have 45 degrees to the right and the whole organization of birds flips. It's like this beautiful thing that we're watching. And then I'm just curious about inner peace for you. When was the last time you had it? Well, it's a tough one. I think
Starting point is 00:51:40 it always intersects with, you know, coaching and how your team is doing intersects with your own life and, you know, what your family's doing and what your kids are doing. I have three kids and they're all doing really well. And the youngest one is in college. The older two are out. And, you know, so my wife and I are empty is in college. The older two are out. So my wife and I are empty nesters now. And life has changed pretty dramatically the last couple of years. So even though I'm doing the same thing, our family dynamics have changed.
Starting point is 00:52:31 And so I look at it as, you know, when do you have everything lined up where everything is just right? You know, that's peace. That's what I think of when you mention, you know, that's, that's the goal. And it's really elusive because, you know, everyone goes through stuff all the time and things happen and, and, um, you know, you, you push for something and you can't always just say, okay, I got it. It's, you know, it's sort of a, many ways it's a never ending quest. Okay. And then how did you help prepare your athletes for success? Because post-success is really tricky. I know that there's a concept that you're familiar with called disease of more. And Rudy Kipyard talked about if you can meet triumph and disaster and treat those two imposters just the same, you know, like that's part of success for life. And winning after winning is one of
Starting point is 00:53:29 the great challenges because winning changes people and it changes the psychological makeup of individuals and the psychology of the team. And so how did you manage that very unique opportunity? Cause not it's rare. It is rare to win a championship. Right. And like you've done it a lot. So I want to know how you manage post success. Yeah. I think, um, it's probably been the biggest challenge for me with, with our team. Um, and I've talked to the guys who have been here at the whole time. You know, we have five guys who have been here for all three championships. Um, Clay Thompson, Steph Curry, Andre Godala, Sean Livingston, and Draymond Green. Uh, they were the, you know,
Starting point is 00:54:19 the original five and they've been here for all three and and we had this discussion the other night um it's different now than it was the first year you know when we won our first championship in cleveland in 2015 um we had never felt anything like it and it was it was so amazing and and so joyful but then you you do it again and you do it again and it becomes different. It becomes expected. You know, the first year everybody, we sort of snuck up on the NBA that year.
Starting point is 00:54:58 Now everybody's aiming for us. And so it's different. No matter what we do, it's never going to feel the same. And so I try to focus on the detail, the, the everyday, the idea that we get to come in here and enjoy each other and enjoy the sport every single day. And that's not going to last forever, but it's, you know, if we're, if we're thinking everything's going to feel just like it did the first year, well, that's wrong. It's not, but it's new. It's different. And you have to embrace the new part of it and you have to embrace the different
Starting point is 00:55:36 challenge. And, and you do it all within that perspective, um, that, that Greg Popovich talks about all the time, which is, yeah, this might be hard, but how lucky are we to come in here and do this every day? And that's what I try to impart on our team. Brilliant. Okay, as we're wrapping up here, how would you finish this thought? It all comes down to it all comes down to
Starting point is 00:56:11 yeah because it really um just depends on what uh you know each individual person is doing but it's it is really the same thing, isn't it? You know, whether it's a game or, or a project or whatever, it's, it's just, you know, it being the success of the group. Um, I think, I think authenticity would be the one word answer to that. I think when things feel real and tangible, I think that's when there's the potential for excellence. It's not lost on me why success has been part of your experiences in life. And last kind of big banger is how do you define or articulate mastery? I think I see it with our team.
Starting point is 00:57:18 I watch Kevin Durant and Steph Curry and Clay Thompson every day work on their shooting at the end of practice. And I just marvel at the attention to detail. These guys have a routine. They all have their own individual routine. So when we finish practice, they all go to their own basket. They all have their own coach, assistant coach who goes through their routine with them. And it's every single day, every single day. And they're pushing themselves and they're pushing each other. And when you think these are possibly the three best shooters on earth, definitely three of the very best on earth, no matter how you scale it.
Starting point is 00:58:05 And here they are working on their craft every single day with such precision and such dedication. That's mastery. It's beautiful. The world needs you, Steve. Seriously, to represent joy and compassion and high standards, group harmony and flow, all in an authentic way towards refining and mastering oneself through craft. And, you know, I just tell you that what a breath of fresh air you are to the world. And I feel lucky to know you and I'm just, I'm stoked for the
Starting point is 00:58:39 success you've had. And I know that there's been hard times in your life and you come through that in an amazing way as well. So I'm looking forward to the next time that we connect. And I just want to say, thank you. Well, I appreciate the kind words. And I want to say thank you because everything you just mentioned, honestly, you and Pete sort of helped me visualize, you know, five years ago, about four, I guess, four and a half years ago now in Seattle. I had all these great, great thoughts and ideas. But I, you know, to actually sort of put those thoughts together and see see everything for how it needed to be. You know, that that was one of the great lessons I learned before I began this, this job. So thank you for all the, all the help you and Pete have given me.
Starting point is 00:59:32 Oh, what a treat. What a real treat. And I'll end it with everything we need is already inside us. It was already inside you. It's already inside all of us. It just does take the discernment, the care, the community to amplify that with some consistency. And so onto it. I'm stoked to know you. I can't wait to see how you guys manage this year. I know you're up against some challenges there and looking forward to the next time we can break some bread and get on a whiteboard and go to work. Let's do it. Let's do it. Appreciate it, Mike. Thank you, Steve. All the best. Okay. Thanks. All right. Thank you so much for diving into another episode of Finding Mastery with us. Our team loves creating this podcast and sharing these conversations with you. We really appreciate you being part of this
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