Finding Mastery with Dr. Michael Gervais - Take Command of Your Wellness – Lessons from Chef & 'The Golden Girl of Wellness'| Candice Kumai

Episode Date: July 19, 2023

Wellness has become a buzzword and it can feel like we’ve lost its true meaning. While the industry is overflowing with “experts” touting the latest and greatest in self-care, this week’s guest has a different approach – Candice Kumai believes that when it comes to wellness practices, newer isn’t always better, and there’s good reason ancient wisdom often endures the test of time.As a 12-time award-winning writer, classically trained chef, and former TV host, Candice made her mark in several notable industries—earning her the unofficial title, ‘The Golden Girl of Wellness.’ However, it’s been the deep exploration of her culture and the honoring of her roots that has had the most profound impact on her identity and purpose. Though food and culture have long been tied, Candice spent years exploring this relationship for herself. By thoughtfully mining the traditions of her Japanese heritage and unlocking modern-day relevance of ancient Buddhist principles, she’s pioneered a transformative approach to wellness; first for herself, and now, for many others. Her guidance is grounded in spiritual wisdom, culinary prowess, and deeply personal exploration. Candice’s latest endeavor, “Spirited: A Modern Guide to Ancient Spiritual Wellness and Wisdom,” is her 7th book, currently available for free on Audible. In it, she helps readers take concrete steps to “clear out the noise, tune out the hype and transform into a more enlightened and peaceful individual.” I can’t wait for you to experience the spirit that lives in Candice’s work and find out why Dr. Andrew Weil has called her “a pioneer of her time". Enjoy!_________________Subscribe to our Youtube Channel for more powerful conversations at the intersection of high performance, leadership, and meaning: https://www.youtube.com/c/FindingMasteryGet exclusive discounts and support our amazing sponsors! Go to: https://findingmastery.com/sponsors/Subscribe to the Finding Mastery newsletter for weekly high performance insights: https://www.findingmastery.com/newsletter Download Dr. Mike's Morning Mindset Routine! https://www.findingmastery.com/morningmindsetFollow us on Instagram, LinkedIn, and X.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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And you don't want to think back and say, I wish I fucking did X, Y, Z. Please go out into this world and fucking do it. Okay, welcome back, or welcome to the Finding Mastery podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Michael Gervais, by trade and training a high-performance psychologist. And I'm thrilled to welcome Candice Kumai to the podcast for this week's conversation. When it comes to wellness, newer isn't always better. And there's good reason ancient wisdom often endures the test of time. And that's what we talk about today with Candice. Though food, wellness, and culture have long been tied, Candice has spent years exploring this relationship for herself in an authentic way. And by thoughtfully infusing

the traditions of her Japanese heritage with a dedication to serving others, she's pioneered a transformative approach to wellness by tying together food and culture for herself and now for so many others. Though the wellness industry today is overflowing with quote-unquote experts touting the latest and greatest in self-care, Candice has a different approach. And I can't wait for you to experience the spirit that lives in her work and to find out why Dr. Andrew Weil, the legend himself, has called her a pioneer of her time. So with that, let's dive right into this week's conversation with Candice Kumai. Candice, I have been looking forward to this conversation for a long time, and you are so much more than a chef. It's how I understand you. And, you know, I wanted to start

in a, like in a broad fashion. So you've been called the golden girl of wellness. So, I mean, wellness is a pretty big buzzword and it can feel really flimsy and a bit esoteric. So it, can we start like in the biggest frame? What does wellness mean to you? Well, great question, Michael. And it's amazing to meet you semi in person. We've almost made it there. A little bit of context, Michael and I met through our mutual friend, Amy Stanton, who is an incredible publicist in publishing and media. And we did all these clubhouses together during the pandemic to help other people learn how to publish their book. And what I loved so much about Michael was learning of the psyche behind not just sports and performance, but also finding humility and grace and learning about utilizing mindfulness as a tool and a resource to get to the next level.

You know, I started in wellness about 20 years ago here in New York City. It wasn't cool. It wasn't cute. I also went to culinary school at 21 and paid my way through. For me, wellness is truly practicing what you preach and giving to others with service, with expecting nothing in return. And sadly, over the past 20 years, we've seen that wellness has turned into a for-profit, narcissistic, very toxic industry. And so it has actually led me back full circle to food again. So I often cringe over the title that I was given so long ago, so gracefully by friends at different magazines as the golden girl of wellness, because now I just want to say, well, I'm a fucking chef. And if you really want to change your life, learn how to cook, learn how to create your own recipes at home and simplify the fuck out of your wellness, quote unquote, routine.

Because it's so much more about going inward, more importantly than anything on the exterior. That's what's up. Okay. And okay, the simplicity, like boiling that down to work from the inside out, you know that my antenna is, you know, tweaked and on there because it's like, yes. This idea of like when you say, when I asked about wellness and the first place you went to

was practice what you preach. And it was just yesterday, I was in a conversation with a senior leader at a multinational corporation, and we're having a conversation about trust. You know, trust is foundational to so much, and certainly like trusting yourself. That's why I'm more interested in trusting yourself than being able to trust others, because trusting others is very complicated, actually. So we're wrestling with the definition. And he said something that was so simple, so profound. And he said, and this is going to relate to

wellness in just a second here, is he said, oh, it's for me, it's really easy. Say do. What do you mean? And he said, oh, do what you say and say what you do. And that's how I build trust in other people and like, say what you do and do what you say. And then that same lens, you know, we flipped it on self. So you can build trust in yourself when you say and when your thoughts and your actions are lined up. And I love when you say practice what you preach, that say-do mentality or philosophy is part of wellness. Why is that important to you?

I'll hold my thought. But why is that important to you? I'll hold my thought, but why is that important to you for wellness? Well, I'd like that we both have, and you have far more experience than I do in the arena of wellness and self-care and also psychology, et cetera. Wait, wait, wait. You're the golden girl of wellness. So if you're the, is that, is there a golden boy? No, it doesn't. The alliteration quite isn't right there. I remember writing at men's health when Tim Ferriss was a guest editor with us. And so there's a, there's a large wheelhouse of us from that did, did our time here in this fucking gauntlet of New York city. And it's amazing to see where everybody has gone. Why it's important is I can't take you serious if you're out there fraudulently

trying to make money off of sick people or vulnerable people. I can't take you serious if you haven't done the work, if you haven't nothing to prove, you know, for at least two decades. I want to see what you've done with your life. And I want to hear your story. And I want you to make me feel like you're electric and I just can't take my eyes off of you. As Maya Angelou says, do something so well that people just cannot take their eyes off of you. And unfortunately, we're being duped nowadays by a bunch of like shitheads who think that making money off of sick or vulnerable people is cool. And while I've been on to them, I've been very quiet and humbly sort of folding my cards a little bit and taking a step back, which is why I'm trying to move away from this perfect, poignant girl in the wellness field and rather just going back to cooking, what has sort of like poked and prodded at me over the years is the lack of experience that we see in individuals out there telling others how they should live their life, what they should be spending their

money on and how virtuous they are and how much better than they are than the rest of us. And also the word guru makes me think about how sad our industry has become. In following your work, I know you and I both understand, Michael, that everyone is the same. You know, my mother is a Japanese school teacher in San Diego. My father is a Polish immigrant whose father was a POW from Poland captured by the Russians. He obviously escaped or also wouldn't be alive. And later in life, when he moved to Connecticut down the way, he was a janitor at a hospital and he wasn't any better or any worse than who I work with reporting on the Today Show or who I write with at Vogue magazine. We're all the fucking same. And so I think the biggest

problem that I've had with where wellness has gone is we haven't been able to find a medium where we can trust others and where we can say, yes, this is for me. We also have to live with the understanding that everyone is different. And my skincare or diet or exercise routine will never be the same as my sisters or fathers or partners. We have to understand that we live in a culture where we are trying to make money off of other people's, you know, whether it's ailments, illnesses, vulnerabilities, and that we shouldn't get played like a fiddle by others. We should go inward again and do that work and understand if you're following somebody

in the current market that is trying to make profit off of you, I would really urge them to go inwards and to do the self-work and to learn from others with years, and I mean decades, of experience. And that's important, yes, to do the work and to follow others who have paved the way and to have respect and honor for those who have done this before us. Okay, quick pause here to share some of the sponsors of this conversation. Finding Mastery is brought to you by LinkedIn Sales Solutions. In any high-performing environment that I've been part of, from elite teams to executive boardrooms,

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Candice, where are you coming from? So you're committed to wellness. You're committed, like you spend your time talking about it, living it, and using food and crafting of delicious, healthful food to be able to, you know, use that medium to help people. But like if, if we were to kind of strip down and get right into the heart of who you are and what you're doing, what is that? Because I'm going to, I want to understand that and then rewind back and think about the former 20 years that have led you to be in the position globally that you are making the difference that you are.

But let's start with like the heartbeat first or the soul of who you are and what you're doing. Great. And when I was a kid in preschool, I remembered feeling that I was half Japanese and half Polish growing up with two beautiful immigrant parents in the middle of San Diego where nobody looked like my sister and myself. I just always felt different. And I had this weird thing in college and high school even where I felt I was supposed to do something with my life that was not like everybody else. Wait, pause, pause there. What is different me? Is that different? Like, Oh, I'm special. Is that different? Like, I'm not okay. Different. Like when I got bullied, different that I got put on a pedestal. What, when you say different, um, I knew I was not like everybody else because in kindergarten, my mom took my sister and I to Japan in 1988 to meet the rest of my family. And when I came back from that trip, which I felt so

connected to being Japanese and living this different type of lifestyle, I got teased for everything that I loved. I immediately came back from kindergarten to first grade and remembered this kid named Freddy just picking on me, you know, doing the pulling the eyes thing. Often people just generalize that all Asians are Chinese and getting called all kinds of repulsive names from first grade. And it did not stop until I would say college. College was the first time where I saw other people that looked like me at Long Beach State, not far from USC. And in culinary school, it was wonderful to see other women of color, minority women cooking alongside with me. I cooked at the Ritz Carlton in Laguna Niguel. I cooked at a Roy's, which was Japanese, Asian, Hawaiian fusion.

And so I started to really use, my sister would say the word weaponize, but I would say I started to learn skills to enrich myself in sort of soothing, self-soothing the wounds of being teased for being Asian. So I don't think I was special. I just felt like I was different and I was polarizing from day one. And I'm very aware of that, polarizing with teachers in high school and polarizing now, I'm sure with my audience, because people do not accept women in certain arenas when they say they're actually really talented and good at various things. to have to prove yourself for so many years. And I think that one key that I've noted in going forward in my calling,

which I believe is to be of service to others and to help improve lives and bridge the gap between the Western decline in health alongside with the Asian and Japanese, the way that they look at food as medicine in prevention of disease has been something I've been accustomed to in my life since childhood because of the way that my mother cooked in our household. And I've been able to use those childhood influences from my own family and my heritage to try to help Western culture to understand that everything that you consume, whether it's food or it's a streamer or out there, you know, trying to go on this diet or live this lifestyle. It's important for us to note that consumption will make up so much of your life. And so I really do try to simplify it in a way with asking people to cook as the

greatest resource to reclaim their life. But to answer your question, I mean, it's the calling is very simple. It is to be of better service to my audience and to those who understand that they can reclaim their health and make the best of what they've got. You don't have to be rich. You don't have to be beautiful. You don't have to be beautiful. You don't have to have all the riches or education or degrees, but if you can, uh, learn to make the best with the cards that you are dealt in this one life, as you've said before, in some of your pods, we don't know, you know, we have an infinite amount of time here. And so I'd rather use my time and being of service to others more than anything else. And that includes, you know, I do tons for animal charity because it makes me feel really good.

I think that what makes me tick is being of service to those who cannot necessarily help themselves and to try to alleviate a little bit of suffering on this planet because there is so much of it. So anything that I can do to help is the calling, I would say. All right. I can't help but to feel the depth of where you're coming from. That's why I wanted to start with understanding it. And then let me double click one more time. And I've got two, two questions at the same level. How much of your growth arc, because I don't feel it in you right now, but how much of your growth

arc of feeling different, of being made fun of at a young age created some sort of dis-ease inside. Well, that's what I wanted to, I didn't want to give like a word there. So it was fire for you, but how much came from like dysfunction versus like the fire of dysfunction? Like I'm going to prove you, you know, or as opposed to like, man, I got to do something to be okay. Or like, Oh, okay. Like I am different and like, man, I got to do something to be okay. Or like, oh, okay. Like I am different and like, great. I hope this resonates with others as well. Um, Michael, because it's,

I immediately got teary when you asked the first question was how much of this was because you were teased as a child and bully. Probably 90% because the other psychological mind fuck that I've had to relearn and re-accept and be resilient and graceful with is. How is it possible that everything I was made fun of as a child, the foods I ate, the traditions, the kimonos, the kabuki, yakitori udon, you know, you name it, how much of that is made cool now? And it's like, I'm praised for being Japanese and every person from Bon Appetit to, you know, Grub Street or, you know, just the Brooklyn food scene that I live in. How much do they love on Japan, whether it's anime or it's, you know, the technology sector that we live in, like futuristically, it's a fetish, I think, that a lot of people look at

and they love, but they but they don't want to love on the people. So instead of weaponizing this process, as my sister so graciously has noted, the best part about my family is, well, there's two parts. Number one, I also fought tooth and nail to get to where I am because my parents told me that I could never make a living off of cooking for others. And that was the first thing my Japanese mom told me when I told her after college and I got a degree in interpersonal and organizational communications. The second thing was, I love people so much. I'm going to pay my way through culinary school. And she said, you can make a living out of maybe writing or maybe you could be a doctor, but you cannot make a living out of cooking for your

friends. And I said, oh yeah, I'll fucking show you. And if you don't believe in me, I'm going to pay for this a thousand percent on my own, which I did. And I also, I found it to be wild in 2018 when I moved home for a stint after a horrible breakup, I went to my parents' house and I asked my mom if, if she had thought that I had made it. And it was, you know, I went to culinary school in 2005 and I, you know, that was 2018 was many years later. And she finally said, oh yeah, I think maybe you have. And at the time getting a small little pat on the back from my Japanese mom was a blessing, but I still, and I hope that others resonate with this too, just as being a very open individual. I still feel like a loser. I, just like you said on another pod that you hit a cliff and you can, you can just hit the wall. Even though I'm on my eighth book

right now, I still go through this. What do others think of me? How am I not as successful as others had hoped for me to be along with myself? Am I a failure? And will I ever be satisfied with the books I have written, the shows I have produced, you know, the outlets that I write for. And if I died tomorrow, I'd be very happy with what I contributed to in society and those I've helped. But I would be very sad that I did not hit the mark.

You know, I judge Bobby Flay and I judge all the chefs on Iron Chef. And I still go on these shows to show the greats apparently what is good and what isn't. And I often think, who the fuck am I to be doing this job when I alone don't feel successful enough to even be here? And it's not imposter syndrome. I fucking hate that term. It is a child of immigrants trying to find her way in this dirty world that we were playing a dirty fucking game. And you have to be really smart in order how to figure out how to use, like we said earlier, get the cards that you're handed in life. And how do I fucking use these to my advantage? And I'm not going to play dirty.

And that, unfortunately, in this world is why I'm not as far ahead as some of my colleagues. Being honest and being truthful and working with, you know, integrity is not popular nowadays. It may pay off in 10 years time, but it certainly doesn't pay off in this world of like quick, thirsty, paying for followers, buying likes, you know, desperate for fucking attention on TikTok. It's just not the way our world currently works. But I can bet if I exist, there are others who still exist out there that care about integrity, quality of work, truth, honor, integrity, and inauthenticity. And again, going back to what we practice, what we preach. So in short, number one, 90% of it was because I got teased as a kid. And number two, the other 10% might've been in

spite of my own parents, not believing in my work from the very beginning. Each time we speak and I have the same experience, which is like it's the place that you're coming from that is so compelling to me because there's an honesty in it and there's a relenting to push against the edge to be free. And that part, I think, is remarkable about you. I am less interested in the chef that you are and more interested in the person that you are, that you, that you are, and that you're working on becoming more often. And you have clarity, maybe not clarity. You have consistency of pushing against limits. And I think the limits that you've pushed up against in the dirty game that we're, that we're referencing, and I do want to know what the game is and what makes it dirty. But you have consistency of pushing against limits. And I think the limits are what others

are thinking about you, whether they're accepting or rejecting of you. Is that assumption correct? Well, we all have a fear of what others may think. So we may never live up until our full potential because we are afraid of this rejection. And I have been rejected my entire career. I've heard the word no probably 95% of the time. And that lucky 5% is the only reason why I get a call to work with Selena Gomez or Dan Levy. That fucking 5%, man, is what I live for. And I have strived to keep myself in the dirty game, which virtually means this just from my opinion and

experience. It's a game where it's about who, you, how much money you have, and how far you're willing to go to make it. And the definition of making it for everyone will be different. For me, it would be so nice to have a home. So I was saying, I can't believe I applied to a regular nine to five job, but I, but I did because I see the benefit in working at a, at a great publishing house, which I've done at Rodale, AMI, I've written with Harper Collins at Random House and, you know, at Men's Health, Men's Fitness, Shape, Women's Health. I've been on the masthead at several magazines through the years. But when I take stock at what I have done, I often don't say, oh, wow, this is enough.

I often say, well, what the fuck is next? And how can I be better? And how can I improve while still playing a game full of integrity and grace? It may come from the fact, Michael, that my grandfather, like I had mentioned, was a POW, and they do believe, like research shows that up to two generations can feel generational pain and suffering. And so a lot of what my grandfather and grandmother did for me in Poland and on the other side of the world at the same time where the world was just exploding was my Japanese grandparents that lived a hundred miles away from Nagasaki when the second atomic bomb dropped. And so a lot of my

life's work is to go back home. And I also interviewed survivors from Nagasaki for an NHK world special, which is virtually like the PBS and CNN of Japan. And I said to myself, while going through the pain and suffering of not feeling good enough, social distortion, social media bullshit, and a bunch of fakes and phonies in this dirty game, I went and I said, I don't give a fuck about any of this. I'm going to go learn from those who are virtual like earth angels who have lived through pain and suffering beyond what we could imagine and learn how do they live their lives? And after doing so, I was so encouraged by their story that I often think that one of the next projects that I should do is to go to Poland and interview the survivors of the Holocaust. And it may also be because I'm Polish and Japanese, and we so rarely tell the stories from our own ancestors through our current, you know, current and modern day careers. I feel such an homage to telling their story. And Michael, I don't want

to make them feel like I wasted their sacrifices. They're all since gone for many years, but I would die if I did something shameful or dishonest in their name. And so sometimes the reason why I won't play this desperation game of thirst and hunger is because I don't have it in me. I mean, I would not want to go out knowing that I duped the world. I would want to go out knowing that I did the best that I could to honor my family's lineage. And sometimes I think that means that you struggle a little more. You know, it'd be easy to marry a billionaire and go off into the world and live in a bikini surfing for the rest of my life, which is stuff I've already done. But I think it's, you know, there's a couple more books left in me, maybe a few more shows. And there's, you know, sorry to interrupt. You know, what's fun about

this is that you just went from like, you know, like deep, deep reverence and deep emotions of empathy and compassion for people that have suffered before you to this buoyancy about living this life and just watching and feeling how you're able to eloquently work with emotions is probably a big part of how you have made such a difference in the world. Okay, no one does it alone. And I want to share a couple sponsors that are making this show possible. Finding Mastery is brought to you by Momentus. When it comes to high performance, whether you're leading a team, raising a family,

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pockets like like you and your community and there's pockets that are doing extremely well but when i was on checking out some of the stuff that you're putting on Instagram, like some of your Instagram reels with like full, like, I don't know, masks, you know, like whatever they're called, the skincare facial masks. And like, it's your, your honesty is, it's just noted and it's refreshing. And I want more of that in my life as well. And I find there's incredible strength in how you're doing it. So two part question. How did you work with the emotions just now? How do you work with emotions in general? And where's this compelling drive to be honest coming from? Humor and animals like cats and dogs have always been the two biggest band-aids I've used. It's funny that

you mentioned going from zero to a hundred when it comes to my, you know, in the middle of tears, I can always find some sort of ailment to laugh with. We did a large retreat with Lululemon about seven years ago in maui and it was athletes producers directors actors and it was actually one of the baldwins that pointed out that i did the same thing she said i can't believe you can go from a japanese impersonation. Like immediately during a moment of, uh, I was sharing with the group, which was, it was a workshop for a lot of us, which Lululemon was so amazing for putting this on for us. And in the middle of sharing this horrible breakup that I had years ago, I did a mom impersonation and it just, I mean, the whole group went from tears to just joy and laughter because my mother did that for me. And I'm sure her father did that for her, even though

we all had our own suffering and pain. I kind of feel like it's a little bit of my duty to share with young women in particular, that you can be funny and you can be yourself and you don't have to put on a full mask, not the beauty masks, but the, you know, sort of like that persona versus person strategy. You can take off the persona mask as my old therapist used to teach me and just be Candace. Because at the end of the day, when you spoke on emotional intelligence, it was the only character trait that I found in my current partner that I was blown away by because no other man that I had dated before had as much emotional intelligence. And it is something in our

society, as you said, you get a C or a D. We don't value it. We tend to value things like money and power and beauty and fame, but we never value kindness, integrity, grace, empathy, compassion. And I wish we could regrade society and ask them to pay attention to the things that deeply matter at the end of the day. And not all this surface bullshit, because I'm pretty sure that God or Buddha or Allah, the universe, angels, whoever you believe that you'll see when you pass, they're not going to ask you about your fucking bank account or who you slept with or, you know, what your Rolodex looks or your Roli looks like. Your Rolex, sorry. I'm, I just, I find these things to be weird that society is captivated by showing diamond rings and Lamborghinis. It's like, I want to see your resume. Like I'm weird,

but I really enjoy seeing the body of work that a human can do in their lifetime over some materialistic measure. If you were to flip it and say, so we'll go from the dirty game to the game that you would like to play. Well, to define dirty game at this point in time, it would be people that are paying attention to the wrong sort of things in life, where I want them to enjoy more nature, you know, more surfing, more chatter, more, you know, conversations with others over a margarita or whiskey, more time spent with, you know, shelter animals and healing and looking inward versus outward and doing the self work before asking others to do X, Y, and Z.

I've had more friend breakups over other women that have tried to tell me how to live my life than I have, you know, then I can count. And I'm so grateful for the friends I do have, but the people that I am most attracted to, like I had mentioned before, that are electric, they play a game where they are generous and kind. They share their wealth and success with others. They give others opportunity. And that would be a beautiful world to live in. And not to say, let's give this chef his 27th show.

But rather, oh, Candace, she's on her eighth book. She must be doing something right. Let's give her a series and see what the fuck happens. You know, it would be really nice. I know I sound like a snarky bitch, but no, I did not. That was like an edit in your own head. Like I was like, yeah, get it. So, yeah, you know, you get jaded after you're with every agency in the world and they tell you how great you are and you're like, oh my God, we're so great. Like, why can't we just book a fucking show?

Like we would crush it, guaranteed. But for me, I love these long, long game game projects like books and documentaries that take an exorbitant amount of time. So the quick hit of like, excuse my language, but doing a line of Coke is fun for a party over a weekend, but it's not going to last forever. And so these little snippets of like 15 seconds of TikTok

are almost just like another version of doing drugs. You know what's funny? It's like, excuse my language, and you say a line of Coke where you've dropped like 15 F-bombs. It's so funny. That is hilarious to me. You and my wife together, it would be hilarious to listen to you. She drops double what you're dropping. I like her already. No, I'm just happy to hear that she's got that gift too, where you just can't help it. But to be real, yeah. I mean, you can only be buttoned up for so long.

Well, I don't know how, you know, every podcast is a little different, right? And some people reference drugs and alcohol partying and debauchery as much as they possibly can because it's part of the shtick. But for us, I think that not only is there something more prolific on finding mastery, but I do like to be as honest as possible. Okay, the snarky bitch comment only comes because I've been trying to ask God or the universe or the guiding factors in my life why we haven't quite gotten there yet. I have writing partners now, obviously wonderful agents at UTA and great, you know, production partners, directors, producers to bounce ideas off of.

It's not a lack of trying. It certainly could be a point in time where, you know, when the fruit is ripe, you will be ready to be picked. Yeah, it certainly seems ripe. You know, it feels ripe. And so I'm rooting for that to be picked. You know, the bummer part about the analogy is like it requires somebody else. And while nobody does it alone, you know, we the extraordinary is so multifaceted that we need each other. I wish that there was a

way that, you know, you could kind of drive your path forward in this way. But but, you know, I totally respect the high brow or the high standard of traditional media. It is better in a lot of ways. It certainly is a standard there. So I see what you're doing. I find it to be interesting that my creative director at Shape Magazine used to tell me the reason why you're different than everyone else, Candice, is because you have a level of excellence that you expect from others that is very, it's difficult to match. And it comes from my mother. And my Polish father is also, he's a former Navy veteran, but also a nuclear auditor. So he audited a nuclear

power plant, San Onofre, for 40 years. And he used to say to me, you know, if you think your job is stressful, in my line of work, there's zero room for error. And then he would just walk away. A man of few words, very intelligent, and also like taught me about doing things the right way with integrity, not by saying it, but rather showing it. I want people to look more into their heritage, the way they were raised, what their grandparents were like. I wish that more people could define themselves, not just by their career or their title or their stupid platform on social media. It's so much deeper. And honestly,

when I was 20, there's no way we could have this conversation, Mike, and I'm sure you wouldn't be able to either. It's got to come with time. And it could be true that, you know, in due time, a lot of us get these opportunities that would not have presented themselves in our 20s or 30s. But rather, as we age, we can get better and we're stronger. what others think as much, moving away from friends that do not make me feel good, and spending more time with people that take big risks, that do big things, and that are humbled by grace. I mean, if I told you some of the A-listers that I've rubbed elbows with and how kind and confident, but also how unconfident they are. We're all the same. We are all mirrors for each

other to see. And it's also like therapy talking to you, as I imagine it is for most of your guests to be able to share my pain of never having a home to put all of my work at and how fucking lucky those guys that have all the shows, I envy what they have. And sometimes I feel that they do not understand what it's like to not have those opportunities. That's where I wish that the game would change a little and start valuing new talent, fresh ideas, thinking outside of the box with food. It is not a man's game of like a French chef or a, you know, I went to a La Cordon Bleu program. I cooked on the line with many French chefs that I've worked with everyone in the industry. I have the utmost respect for them, but it is your kitchen at home that will determine your level of health or wellness, not some fucking French man in a kitchen across the street. So it is up to people like me to teach people how to cook better in their own home as their greatest resource.

And now one final word from our sponsors. Finding Mastery is brought to you by Cozy Earth. Over the years, I've learned that recovery doesn't just happen when we sleep. It starts with how we transition and wind down. And that's why I've built intentional routines into the way that I close my day. And Cozy Earth has become a new part of that. Their bedding, it's incredibly soft, like next level soft. And what surprised me the most is how much it actually helps regulate temperature. I tend to run warm at night and these sheets have helped me sleep cooler and more consistently, which has made a meaningful difference in how I show up the next day for myself, my family, and our team here at

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I've been using Caldera Lab for years now. And what keeps me coming back, it's really simple. Their products are simple. And they reflect the kind of intentional living that I want to build into every part of my day. And they make my morning routine really easy. They've got some great new products I think you'll be interested in. A shampoo, conditioner, and a hair serum. With Caldera Lab, it's not about adding more. It's about choosing better. And when your day demands clarity and energy and presence,

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Well, we can sit around and blame others or our past. You'll often hear me talk about my mother, father, mostly my mom. I have to take responsibility for my life and my actions and doing the work in my instance, and I hope this does resonate with others too, is going inward and facing your own demons and your own addictions and your own suffering and your own self-proclaimed bullshit, which is far less than, you know, the suffering that we see all across the globe nowadays and in our past as well. It's valuing what you do have and saying how lucky I am to even be here. And virtually, shame on you, Candice, for even being envious of others when you have so much, so many gifts that you haven't even been able to, like, you haven't been able to fix this Rubik's cube that's been handed to you yet because it's so it's it's a lot bigger than i think i realize but i just haven't been able to crack that code yet but the more in we go yes yes what what are you resting on? Are like, is there, is there, wait, no, what I was wondering is like,

are you resting on, um, organized philosophy, like a world religion, or is it, is it your internal work that you've done, you know, with a therapist or is it, um, ancient traditions that you've cobbled together? What, What does the backstop look like for you? Well, this is a great question. I was raised Catholic. My father has since converted to Episcopalian Christianity through just following the Bible. And my mother is Buddhist. And my entire Japanese family is Buddhist, a sect out of Kyoto in Japan. And my father's whole family is Catholic or Christian.

And so growing up, speaking about those childhood wounds and the teasing, not only did I look different, I had a different middle name and last name and I had two different belief systems going on in my household but I knew that my mother and father their common denominator was love because they could say I love you so much that your belief system is okay with me because I love you, the individual. And that, Michael, might be my greatest gift that I was ever given. Was saying all this shit that we fight about all day is bullshit. And love is the common denominator in making things work. That's, I mean, how about it? And so if we, to honor your time here, if you were to give us a

few takeaways, you know, like almost like kind of like some quick hits. And I don't like to be a reductionist, but clarity is kind and clarity is also an example of like taking the complicated to simple. And there's such wisdom in that. But so what are some of the wellness big rocks, like ingredients that we might not be thinking of and things that we can do to practice? Great questions regarding food. A lot of foods that contain koji, which is Aspergillus orze, which is a bacteria that's found in many Japanese foods like sake, shochu, miso, soy sauce,

rice vinegar, mirin, which is a rice wine that we use to cook with. These types of foods contain bacteria that has helped my ancestors live healthier lives into the years of being a centenarian, et cetera. It's helped with skin, hair, nails, all the shit that we tout in Western culture that our ancestors have already been doing for thousands of years. So if you want to really improve your health, incorporate a food with koji into your diet. These are coming to you in the mail, but this is the Kintsugi Wellness has a list of Japanese health and wellness foods. Awesome.

This book, it's like a Bible for Japanese health and wellness. And then Clean Green Eats is like a Bible for clean eating, which is simply just eating whole foods. Taking the processed shit, and that includes processed fake meat and processed – you don't need a whole lot, like you were saying earlier. Simplifying means trying to eat more whole foods every day, like grains, fruits, vegetables. Of course, you can have a fucking margarita if you want. You can go out and party. Like you can bounce back. Like you don't have to be perfect.

And the point of my next book and venture is, I can't say the title yet, but we're hoping that people can understand that you already hold the keys to improving your whole life. It's in your kitchen and it's really easy. We tend to overcomplicate everything, including our dating lives, our weekends, our friend bullshit, our jobs, the money that we're making or not, we tend to overcomplicate everything. And also remember that public figures don't have the fucking answer. You do. It's a lot more simple than we think, but choosing to read books over social media, you know, doing the line of cocaine, it's way more beneficial to learn and educate yourself and to gain the skill set of cooking, knowledge, learning about your heritage, and learning about better foods to be putting in your body. I know that a lot of men listen to, you know, the VO2 max,

like how to get better cardio, how to get better, you know, muscle strength, et cetera. And I spent a vast majority of my career writing at men's health and men's fitness and also women's health and shape. And I think at the end of the day, my greatest takeaway was that we have so much more power in keeping our waists felt or your muscles big or whatever works for you. But everyone will fluctuate between five to 10 pounds of weight naturally and that it's okay. You know, like if I have to shoot in a swimsuit one week, that's fine. But I'm not going to kill myself over having a night out with my girlfriend. So be easy on yourself. Be real. Enjoy it because it may not last forever.

And you don't want to think back and say, I wish I fucking did X, Y, Z. Please go out into this world and fucking do it. Because the last thing I want is for anyone to say, fuck man, I want to live that life. You absolutely can. So do it. You know, actions are truly virtuous and they will always set people apart. All right, Candice, you know what? We're doing something together. We got to, we got to sort something out and like, let's, yeah, I don't know what it is, but let's, I almost spat out my water. By the way, did you hear earlier when you said, what are you resting on? Is it therapy? Is it? And I said, oh, meditation pillows.

Oh, is that what you said? I didn't, I missed that in the gap. Ah, let's do something fun. Okay. And like, I love it. There's so many young women, especially that are in need of just self-esteem boosting and getting away from these horrible, toxic, like lifestyles that we see. It's so important to tell women you know get a skill set get an education get the fucking talent behind you before you have the expectation of being a

public figure you know what do they have to rest on if they only have a fucking app with their thumbs at the end of the day is talent you know know, and you can- I love the fire. You have fire. You have fire. It is so clear. You have arthritis by the time they're like 30, you know? So you probably did this early in your career. And I wonder if there's a resurgence opportunity

because I would, if there's people like me in the world, I would love this. And I would love to there's people like me in the world, I would love this. And, um, I, I would love to be in a kitchen with you for like five hours. You know, I can imagine myself and my wife and then like eight other couples or something and like philosophy, cooking, um, insight work, and then learning about how to do something great in my own kitchen. And I'm sure you've done that. But I bet there's so many of our community that would absolutely love that experience

with you. And that's a testament to the fire, the clarity, the skill set. And so I just say that and you do not need to respond. But where do you hope wellness goes in the next 10 years? Because I was really myopic. Like, I hope that you're creating that type of experience for people. And if you are, sign me up. We're there.

And then but where do you see wellness in the next 10 years? And thank you for that sentiment to Mike. It means a lot. And I I do hope that we can work together and help others together. We can't do it alone, you always say. It would be a pleasure and an honor. Cool. I think that one of the shows that we're currently writing is based on giving the keys back to you. One of the first

shows I was ever on was a lifetime series that told women that you can lose X amount of weight in your kitchen by cooking better foods. And that was it. Virtually, that was it. You didn't need to exercise even, even though it is recommended. My hope is that we can go back to valuing books and experience, even though I sound like an old geezer saying that stuff. You know, I like reading, like I said, like Dennis Rodman's books or even The Last Dance. Even watching Larry Bird and Magic have their banter together brings like tears to my eyes. My dad is also like a big NBA junkie, but he finds the love between Bird and Johnson to be so beautiful that it's sort of passed on to myself. So I wish for every individual to find those little nuances in life that bring

you so much joy that it brings tears to your eyes because we may never see the beta, you know, analog years of that type of sports history or history again. We may never see the camaraderie between two opponents loving each other so much that they can almost laugh about it now and re-educate. So my hope is, is that wellness can go back in time and look at how beautiful we once had it and how we've sort of like, how do we, how do we unfuck wellness? That would be a great way for us to tell people, you don't fucking need 3000 supplements. even though my partner still believes in that. I'm like, you virtually can get a lot of nutrition from food. And then to also answer your question,

yes, there are three different shows that we're writing. One is about going with others into their kitchen or helping them. The other one is comedic and it has to do with dating actually. And the last one is about knowing better and doing better. So if we know better, we choose to do better things with our lives. And your podcast is a testament to that, which is why I can't wait for your real book to come out and for you to say, oh yeah, we forgot to mention the Audible original. That's the spirituality one. So where can people go? Where do you want people to go to like read your books and to get your new Audible original? Like where's the best place? Is it the website? Is it your social? Sometimes it's, I have candicekumai.com is the

website. Wabi Sabi podcast is the pod. And then lastly, on my Instagram, there's a link in bio where I just decided to start putting my books up because I virtually did not stand out in the field that I pioneered anymore. I looked like maybe everybody else was just emulating whatever the fuck I did. I don't know. But I was like, I'm sure you've noticed, Mike, because people could look at you and not know your body of work. And it's only in a medium like a pod

or a book where we're able to share your talents and gifts with the world, which is why it is so important to keep sharing individual stories as you do on the pod that have, I mean, I look at Dr. Andrew Weil, like I was saying before, and I think, my God, we got to get this guy on a show because it's, it's time. He's fucking, he's been ready for a long time like and he's so grounded and so awesome and it's incredible that um you have a mentorship relationship with him he is like i've had him on the the podcast twice and yeah he he is special he's adorable like i read his book in 88 like i like i've been attracted to his approach to life for a long time. He is. You're fortunate to know him in that way.

It's cool. Yeah, same. Well, see, the thing is, if we could have more conversations like this on shows, on platforms, where we can be more candid and we don't have to be so fucking edited, polished and perfect. I think that's why Andy is so wonderful. I mean, he was talking about psychedelics when he was at Harvard with Ram Dass before I was even born. Maybe I don't know. Oh yeah. He was part of that, that little taboo culture that was like, where Harvard was like, you guys don't belong here. I don't know what you're doing, but he's like, ah, you know, like I'm here and I'm going to talk about it. And, and look at him now. I mean, it's, he's always been ahead of his time. And unfortunately when you are a futurist,

it can work against you in certain ways. But yeah, I mean, my goal is, is to bring those voices to the forefront of media and wellness and try to give them a better platform. Because if we keep following like these whack jobs out there that I pray for them, send them blessings, but also people really do need to do a little bit more research on public figures, background and experience. And that is that's a huge problem that we have nowadays is it's the wild, wild west, man. A thousand percent. And people like, I don't know that you call them Andy. I'm going to call him Dr. Weil out of reverence because I don't know him like that. But like I go to his restaurant all the time. And I don't think that my friends, I'm not sure, know that it's True Foods is a restaurant chain. And it's so good. And it's clean and healthy and

wonderful. He's done a really nice job there. And then he's also got matcha.com, which I'm a huge fan of matcha. And they've actually sponsored the, um, matcha.com, which I'm a huge fan of matcha and they've actually sponsored the podcast. So there's a discount code if you're interested in that, um, on our website and like, yeah, I love, I love what he's doing. And, and like the stuff you're doing, you know, with Selena Gomez and, and, and, and NBC and the daily show, like, come on, let's go. I'm stoked to know you. I'm stoked that you're bringing the heat here. And I, I'm excited that we may be able to think about how to do something later. So thank you. Thank you. And keep crushing it, man. You're doing amazing work. And I hope

that there are more young men and women that grow up to be like you. And I hope that is that's awesome. Wack job ways it well, because it's important for people to live with the balance, but to also have mentors to emulate that are, I mean, I'm telling you, man, if all the right people could have the platform of all the wrong people right now, the world would be in a much better state. It'd be a little healthier. How about it? It'd be a little healthier.

And, you know, the message is that I want to be really clear. I am making it up as I go. I'm resting on ancient traditions and practices that science is reinforcing. And it's not all buttoned up, you know? So it literally is all a work in process. And so I, thank you for giving me that little moment to say, go be your very best, whatever that means to you and do it in a kind, strong way about it.

It means throw spaghetti at the wall and just run. Okay. Super like pedestrian. Do you shop at Trader Joe's? Like that's what- Every week. Okay. I live in-

Right here down the street is a TJ's. Yeah. Because that's what a bunch of our food is in our house. And so I don't know about the quality. I don't know how to source that. what a bunch of our food is in our house. And so I don't know about the quality. Like I just, I don't know. I don't know how to source that. But a bunch of their, tell me if I'm way off on here, but some of their frozen vegetables, like throwing those in a pan as a ready-to-go meal, you know, or part of a meal is like this.

I don't know. French green. Well, we do the organics as much as possible so yeah trader joe's has artichokes green beans um brussels like they're all frozen so that's what we do yeah use a sheet tray and just olive oil a little bit of like salt pepper whatever you like there's a mushroom seasoning at trader jo Joe's that's really good. And yeah, I mean, most of the time we do salmon or some sort of, you know, high quality protein with greens. And that becomes like the forefront of like, we always have avocados or

sweet potatoes on hand. Really like doing smoothies because you can get optimum nutrition when you just make a green smoothie. A fun fact, I did write all the recipes for Novak Djokovic's Serve to Win. So a book that was written probably about six years ago. And it was fun. It was great learning about how he adds grains to everything. And he virtually ate to win matches. And that type of work really is fascinating. But the cool thing about what you do is too, is like you find that essence, the je ne sais quoi

of an individual that you cannot fucking define that people live off of. And it's great because the coolest part is, is you have sports as an easy way of sharing the trajectory of like how, how you can educate. And for me, it's, it's easy. We can use food and wellness. Um, but, but I do really believe that you can eat on a budget when you shop at places like Trader Joe's, the farmer's market, Costco. You don't have to be rich in order to be well. I love it. That's a great note to close with. And again, thank you. And I'm looking forward to next. It's a pleasure. Thank you for having me. All right. Thank you so much for diving into another episode of Finding Mastery with us. Our team loves creating this podcast and sharing these conversations with you.

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