Finding Mastery with Dr. Michael Gervais - The Evolution of Diversity and Inclusion in the Workplace | Microsoft CDO, Lindsay-Rae McIntyre

Episode Date: December 30, 2020

This week’s conversation is with Lindsay-Rae McIntyre, the Corporate Vice President and Chief Diversity Officer at Microsoft. From thought leadership, to operational execution, to employee engagement, Lindsay leads Microsoft’s strategic efforts on systemic solutions to advance diversity and inclusion guided by a commitment to be mission-driven, outcome-oriented, globally-informed, science-based, and culturally-competent.She spearheaded the publication of Microsoft’s first Diversity & Inclusion Report and shaped the company’s recent action-oriented response to racial injustice.Under her leadership, her global team of human resources and employee engagement strategists are driving the adoption of Microsoft’s Core Priority for Diversity & Inclusion, introducing new solutions to advance inclusive behaviors and habits including Microsoft’s Allyship Program and employee self-identification, and helping leaders embrace their inclusion learning journey.You may have already heard a snippet of our conversation as part of the Decoding Disruptors: Race Forward special episode we published about a month ago but I wanted to release the full conversation here because there is so much more we touch on.And if you haven’t had a chance to listen to Race Forward yet, I would be honored if you would give it a listen.You can learn more about it and explore video clips of it at decodingdisruptors.com/race_________________Subscribe to our Youtube Channel for more powerful conversations at the intersection of high performance, leadership, and meaning: https://www.youtube.com/c/FindingMasteryGet exclusive discounts and support our amazing sponsors! Go to: https://findingmastery.com/sponsors/Subscribe to the Finding Mastery newsletter for weekly high performance insights: https://www.findingmastery.com/newsletter Download Dr. Mike's Morning Mindset Routine! https://www.findingmastery.com/morningmindsetFollow us on Instagram, LinkedIn, and X.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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So even I go into conversations that are really charged and I say, I just want to say out loud that this is a supercharged conversation. And I respect you as a colleague. And I know that when we come out the other side of this conversation, we both will have learned something. Because sometimes saying it out loud can let a little bit of the pressure out. Okay, welcome back or welcome to the Finding Mastery podcast. I'm Michael Gervais, and by trade and training, I'm a sport and performance psychologist. And the whole idea behind these conversations is to learn from people who are on the path of mastery. We want to better understand what they're searching for,

their psychological framework, which is a fancy way of thinking about, like, how do they use their mind? How do they make sense of the world around them? How do they make sense of themselves in this world that we're living in? Then we want to dig underneath the surface and figure out what are the mental skills that they're using to build and refine their craft. Finding Mastery is brought to you by LinkedIn Sales Solutions. In any high-performing environment that I've been part of, from elite teams to executive boardrooms, one thing holds true. Meaningful relationships are at the center of sustained success. And building those relationships, it takes more than effort.

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when you head to davidprotein.com slash findingmastery. That's David, D-A-V-I-D, protein, P-R-O-T-E-I-N.com slash findingmastery. Now, this week's conversation is with a legend, Lindsay Rae McIntyre, the Corporate Vice President and Chief Diversity Officer at Microsoft. From thought leadership to operational execution, Lindsay Rae leads Microsoft's strategic efforts on systemic solutions to advance diversity inclusion. And she's guided by a commitment to be mission-minded, to be outcome-oriented.

And then waiting to hear how she's got a global perspective that is only earned by somebody who really understands what it means to be alive in a global rhythm that we're in right now. And it's beautiful, the words she chooses and the sensitivity she has about inclusion of all people, because that is part of Microsoft's mission, is to help all people and organizations across the planet achieve more. And then she also has this deep and rich value for science-based and culturally competent programs and solutions. And under her leadership, her global team of human resources and employee engagement strategists, they are driving the adoption of Microsoft's core priority for diversity inclusion.

This is not something that is just like something they want to do that's good or nice or it feels good. This is a core priority. And I've been up close and personal to know exactly how important this is for them. And they are introducing new solutions to advance inclusive behaviors and habits, including Microsoft's allyship program and the employee self-identification program and helping leaders embrace their inclusion learning journey. And you may have already heard a snippet of my conversation with her as part of the Decoding

Disruptors Race Forward special episode that we published about a month ago. But I wanted to release the full conversation here to honor the depth and just the flat out gems that she shares as a capstone to this year that we've been on and how important inclusion and diversity and equity and just the whole system has been flipped on its head and for right reason for us to understand the voices of others and their experience. So it's just a capstone moment. I wanted to end with Lindsay Rae McIntyre. And I just want to add, I love the work that I'm able to do with Microsoft. Their commitment to helping every person in every organization on the planet achieve more, it's just, it's so inspiring. And I'm honored to play a really small part in their progressive culture.

And if you're running an organization, Microsoft is for sure a living case study on building a culture that is grounded both in empathy and deep learning and performance. And more importantly, from my lenses, the mindset training to support those. And I'll include in the show notes a few links of our work within Microsoft. And we'd love to do some of that same work with your organization as well, if it's fitting.

And this isn't just about cultural transformation. This is really about cascading throughout the organization, the skills and practices to help your employee base, to help your partners in your business, if you will, train their mind so they can live in the present moment more often, so that they can be creative, so that they can think critically, so they can solve solutions together to really explore the upper reaches of the collective potential that we hold together. And so anyways, I'm so honored to do this work with Microsoft. If you haven't had the chance to listen to Decoding Disruptors Race Forward yet,

I'd be honored if you give that a listen. And you can learn more about it and explore video clips of it on decodingdisruptors.com forward slash race. And with that, let's jump into this beautiful conversation with Lindsay Rae McIntyre. Lindsay Rae, how are you? Yeah, thanks for asking. And I'm really looking forward to this conversation. How are you doing? Oh, good.

It's a powerful question because there's so many nuances. There's so many emotional things that are happening for most humans alive right now, certainly those in the United States. So with that being said, you have spent your life in diversity inclusion as a stakeholder, as a proponent, as an advocate, as an ally, as a student, as an expert. And you have a body of work that is significant for diversity and inclusion and equity and creating scenarios for people to be their very best. And so what are your life experiences that have helped shaped your interest in diversity and inclusion? It's a great question. And, you know, as a white woman who does diversity and inclusion for a living, there's so much of my lived experience that isn't relevant or connected to the work. And yet, everywhere I look in my own childhood, I'm surrounded by people and experiences that are different from my own. And so, you know,

I was raised by a single mother who worked three jobs until she could work two, until she could work one. We didn't come from much. But, you know, whether it was, you know, my middle school best friend whose mother was from Trinidad and father from Vancouver, they shared a house with a Chinese family to make the rent or the Spanish Chilean family that I babysat for and spent a ton of discretionary time with. And in doing so, learned about the nuances and the differences between South American and European, Spanish and Portuguese cultures and communities or the time I spent in the deaf community in high school and through my university years, convinced that that was going to be a profession that I was going to follow or the time I've spent overseas or in mosques with Muslim friends, in synagogues with Jewish friends, in church with Christian friends.

The experiences that I had, I didn't actually know were anything different than me living the life that I was living. And it took me a long time, probably late into my teenage years to realize that it wasn't how everyone was know. And so the deep curiosity to learn about different cultures and communities and identities was something that I was connected to very young and have continued to nurture and respect as I've gotten older. What were your emotions when the social unrest erupted in the United States this year? My first reaction was that of non-surprise. And so, you know, on the one hand, you know, there's an individual that I work with who described it best of like, we're surprised that y'all are surprised, right? And I will say that I

also was in that space. But to watch the international community and the ally community experience the murder of George Floyd specifically and respond to it in a way that they hadn't. For me, again, I sort of go to that place of curiosity on what is it about this particular moment in time? What is it about the questions that we are asking about broader society and our circumstances in the context of COVID and a number of other dynamics that are going on in our lives that are bringing this conversation to a greater number of people

than may have engaged in it before. And so, you know, if from that place of curiosity, started to think about what could be possible in the awareness of helping people understand and build empathy for experiences different from their own and different from those that they were connected to. And then, you know, just really feeling a sense of responsibility as somebody who is a practitioner of the work, who works for a company that is deeply connected to and

committed to this work on like, okay, how am I going to use my own platform to raise the voices of others and to create systemic change that will result in an outcome that is different than the one that came before us? What are the overarching goals of diversity and inclusion? I think at its core, diversity is really about making sure that we have the variety of backgrounds, identities, geographies, and perspectives that, at least for Microsoft, allow us to step up to this hugely audacious goal we have to empower every person and every organization on the planet, because that's like 7 billion people. And so every day, you know, we aspire to make sure that not only are we building products and services

and solutions for the 7 billion, but that we understand while empathy and proximity are really important, they are not a proxy for representation. And so we have to have the representation as we in the technological algorithmic components of the work that we do. And then, of course, the inclusion piece of it is, you know, having our values as a company, as our North Star, really making sure that we create the conditions for everybody to do their best work so that they don't have to hide pieces of themselves or to pretend to be something they're not or fit into somebody else's definition of what great looks like, but that we actually create the conditions

for people to sort of be really who they are without a preconceived notion that ultimately restricts innovation and restricts our ability to achieve what we're up to. Okay. So diversity is about many voices, many points of view, and inclusion is about bringing your whole self into the places that you're in. Is that right? Diversity is about having as many diverse identities, perspectives, communities represented inside Microsoft as the marketplace and the communities that we serve externally. And then inclusion is what it feels like. Inclusion is, you know, how well we take advantage of all of those diverse perspectives and create the conditions for them to be seen and heard and come through in all that we are building and providing.

So can you talk about the difference between the business case and the moral case for diversity inclusion? Yeah, we actually sort of separated into three. We talk about the business case, know done by and created with humans unless unless we can create the conditions for those humans to do their best work we are not going to be able to yield what it is that we say that we're up to and so when you think about the fact that the neuroscience tells us that exclusion resonates in the brain, the very same way as physical pain, you think like, wow, you know, it is, it ought to be no surprise that when people are excluded, they are more defensive,

they're less collaborative. They don't, you know, they don't connect with others as well. And they for sure don't do their best work in, know that takes us to productivity it takes us to authenticity it takes us to you know the the everything that we're not getting from this hugely incredible resource that we have inside our organizations and so you know there absolutely is a business case to be explained, but there's also the human case that is different than it's the right thing to do because it's also about how do you – we spend so much time and money and effort reaching out to and acquiring incredible talent, if we don't create the conditions for them to have an amazing employee experience, they're going to go somewhere else. And that is incredibly costly, but it also impacts lots of things. It impacts what it feels like to work on a team where people don't want to stay or where they do want to stay, right? Where people can grow and develop their careers. So as other people join the workforce, they can look throughout the totality of an organization

and see people who look like them and know that it's possible. And so it isn't one or the other for us, it's both, right? It has to, it is about business. We are a for-profit company. That does matter. But it is also about the human case and the need for us to make sure that we are doing everything we able to influence and support systems in society beyond Microsoft itself. Finding Mastery is brought to you by Momentus. When it comes to high performance, whether you're leading a team, raising a family, pushing physical limits, or simply trying to be better today than you were yesterday. What you put in your body matters. And that's why I trust Momentous. From the moment I sat down with Jeff Byers, their co-founder and CEO, I could tell this was not your average supplement company.

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mastery 20 at felixgray.com for 20 off off. Okay. So on the neuroscience piece is that this is why people, when they feel excluded or there's an emotional, difficult experience that they're engaged with, one of the responses is often, you know what? It just hurt. I just feel hurt by it. And so when somebody is physically hurt, then we recognize that we see the wound, we see the injury. And in elite sport, we work with that. We try to figure out like, is this hurt so great? This is injury so great that somebody should, you know, get proper rehab or can we, you know, kind of tape it up in ways that are appropriate to get them to the next level for performance as well. Not at the cost of the person,

but to be able to build that resiliency to meet the challenge. But the point is hurt. And when you can't see the hurt, we don't really know what to do with it. And so when people are hurt, they usually don't do their best work. I mean, that's easy to see from the physical standpoint, but it's also true. It holds up to

your point about the emotional standpoint as well. Absolutely. Now, that being said, within these conversations that so many people are having, maybe for the first time about race and equity and inclusion, and they're charged concepts. For you, you're practiced at it. But concepts like white privilege or complicit racism, they can provoke anger and resentment and even a fear of saying the wrong thing for being labeled as a racist or even shame for benefiting from the system that has promoted the ability to advance just by where you're born and how you're born, what you look like and how you sound. So how do you help employees navigate these conversations? That is sort of the crux of the conversation that we're having.

And at Microsoft, we, about two years ago, created the allyship learning path. And we really used allyship as a broader concept to take advantage of all the hard work Microsoft had done on growth mindset, which I know that you're deeply connected to, right? That inclusion at its core benefits from that growth mindset muscle. It is full of fixed mindset. And yet allyship in many ways is growth mindset in action, right? That allyship is the opportunity for people to understand that regardless of their background or their identity, that they could be invited into a conversation and an opportunity to understand and reflect and change behavior that would be beneficial to them and to others. And so by opening the aperture that, you know, diversity and inclusion isn't about

some people benefiting, that, you know, there is an allyship journey that includes a tremendous amount of education, right? I think so many people believe that somewhere deep inside, some of us got, you know, some deep sense of understanding about other humans and others not like, no, that doesn't happen. This requires an intense effort to invest in perspectives and identities and, you know, understanding people who are, who are different from us. And so, you know, when we look at our values of respect and integrity and accountability, and we think about what those look like all day, every day, allyship gives us something to connect to on what do I do in this meeting? How could I engage in support of another that would have

them be our guide? And so, you know, it's the allyship journey at Microsoft that has given people shared language and shared understanding to begin to think about how to show up for one another in ways that are different than they maybe have before, or how to use their voice and speak up in a moment when they otherwise would have let it go or stay quiet. And that's really starting to change the way in which we talk about diversity and inclusion because we also get to fail at it. You know, I tell people all the time, it's not that I'm great at this work always. I just get to fail more than most. And therefore, I get to learn what it feels like to fail and keep trying. And we have to create permission in this work to say the wrong thing and try again. And, you know, as long as we're

committed to the investment of learning that, you know, we don't rely on others to be our education source based on their lived experience, but we're willing to do our part of the work and meet them halfway, there's a tremendous amount of learning to be done. And on the leadership dimension, I mean, I think that this is just a modern expectation of leadership. I think that there's this sense

that maybe being a diverse and inclusive leader is something extra special. And I actually think it might just be synonymous with leadership in 2020. Okay. So here's the thing I want to wrestle with just a little bit is when we're talking about allyship and companionship towards a shared vision, we need each other. Sounds great. And it's purposeful and it's practical. But what about this other narrative? That if I include people in this inner circle, I might be the one that gets bounced out. So now I'm talking about a scared mindset. If the position of power is held by people that

are white males, typically in business, that is an easy narrative to double click on. And then we start to invite folks in. Could I be the one that loses my job? I'm doing the right thing. I want to be supportive of this mission. I believe in it. So can you wrestle with that just a little bit, that fear response that I think is embedded in this conversation and also that first response to the privilege narrative. I think this is where the work that Kenji Yoshino did with Deloitte on the covering study, covering being the concept that we downplay known elements of ourselves to fit into the mainstream. When they did that study and they looked at the different identities who indicate dimensions of covering in the workplace, 45% of straight white men cover in the workplace. And so you start to get curious about like,

what are they covering about? Faith, mental health, age, ability. And so now we have again a broader aperture to invite folks into a conversation that they historically haven't always found themselves a part of that is completely inclusive of their lived experience as well. And so, you know, it's those kinds of opportunities to be able to help, you know, members of majority identities understand that this isn't, you know, only a conversation where you're expected to do the work as an ally, but you are a beneficiary of this work as well. I won't pretend that we don't come across fear-based, scarcity-based conversations. We do, of course we do. But I think that when given the opportunity to allow people to understand the work and the way in which it's being unfolded at Microsoft gives these words less charge. So you mentioned privilege.

Privilege has been a swear word in the diversity and inclusion space forever. And yet we're starting to talk about it now in a material way. And at Microsoft, we are talking about privilege, not as a binary thing, you have it or you don't, but that each one of us, depending on situations or circumstances, may have privilege. And if you are on payroll at Microsoft, regardless of your background, that all by itself has privilege, right? And so by being able to layer it and create texture and context for privilege, again, it becomes a little less scary. What do you say to the person who says, oh God, this is nauseating. There's a white man and a white woman talking about privilege and talking about, you know, racial injustice, gag.

Like, do they have any freaking clue? No different than the engineer that's trying to make a product for women. This is what's wrong with the narrative around diversity inclusion. There's no way that they can possibly understand. And this is a joke. I mean, I love that you say that out loud, because that's absolutely the perspective that many would have. And yet what I say is, uh, part of, part of the, my responsibility is to create the platform for, you know, for other voices to be heard and to invite people into the work who don't necessarily see themselves as a part of the work. And so there's never any scenario where I think as, you know, as a white chief diversity officer, I speak on behalf of the processes that are less dependent on are solving for unbelievably innovative pieces of the

work that we will have solved, you know, a lot of in shared language and shared understanding, in habit formation, in systems and structures of talking about the work so that we don't have to get wrapped around this like, oh, that's the work for some people and not me, or that isn't a conversation that includes me, because those feel like really tired excuses, and we're better than that. In your experience, what are the biggest challenges that people of color face in workplaces that are predominantly white? I mean, that's a really long list, right? I think that, you know, being able to have peers and colleagues and this place of like oh I don't see color we're all the same without understanding that while some might find that to to be well intended as they speak those words the communities of marginalized backgrounds experience those words is then you don't see me, then you don't understand me. And it starts there, right? So how is it that we can create conversations and education and conversation that will allow people to customize the work experience for the totality of the humans that

are in the workplace. But the call to action now is customization and understanding somebody's wants and needs and aspirations in a way that allow you to help shape that, you know, mentoring isn't just mentoring. Sponsorship isn't just sponsorship. Like there's a way for us to do this in a thoughtful, meaningful way that recognize we do all come from different experiences and backgrounds. You know, I see my role as an aspiring ally every day to think about what I can learn and what I can do and how I can show up in a way that will decrease that tax on other people who are covering and are trying to fit in in a system that really wants them to stand out. Finding Mastery is brought to you by Cozy Earth. Over the years,

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Head to calderalab.com slash finding mastery and use the code finding mastery at checkout for 20% off your first order. That's calderalab, C-A-L-D-E-R-L-A-B.com slash finding mastery. How about this statement? There was, this happened to me. There me. It was three women on a call, myself. And listen, I'm going to pull out a very small violin here, okay? But I would love some coaching from you. And it was a cool moment for the team. And I was celebrating like, right, nice job. This is epic. And I'm part of their team. And the comment was, that's right. Moms get things done. And it hit me. And I want to say, I want to be an ally. Let's use the phrase. I want to be an ally and say like, yeah, hot damn, that's awesome. You know, good job. And then part of it was like, oh, I just got pushed outside the circle. And so, okay. I let it go i haven't forgotten you know so it hit me somewhere and i let it go in a way that i i want i want the celebration the shine of the good work and the pushing out of the circle i can handle it so this is me not knowing really not knowing should i should i say wait a minute fathers get things done too and kind of get into that bit and then say, wait a minute, fathers get things done too, and kind of get into that bit.

And then I go, wait a minute, what about the person who can't have a child? So is that a micro expression? Or do you say, no, the right thing probably is just to celebrate that that's how they're feeling about their accomplishment? I mean, the short answer is it depends, right? Because even if you take your example and you pull it into the addressing racial injustice circumstances, people, you know, have capitalized on the moment to say, but isn't it, Lindsay Rae, about, you know, all lives matter? Or what about my community? You know, we've experienced, you know, marginalization and oppression as well. And so there's a time and a place to just create a respectful, isolated conversation that focuses on the circumstances

of one community, knowing that there are multiple things true at the same time. But if I was your teammate, you know, one of the things that I would have loved for you to be able to say is, Hey, Lindsay Ray, like I totally was in that moment and cheering with the team, but it, it struck me that, you know, in that moment, I got pushed out of the conversation. My allyship move in that moment would be, if that ever happens again, how is it that you'd like me to show up for you? And then you would say, I'd sort of like to be, if that ever happens again, how is it that you'd like me to show up for you? And then you would say, I'd sort of like to be included in that, in that conversation too. But that would be more, that would be a more important conversation for you and I to have

than for me to have presumptively put you on the spot in that moment and assume, hey, Michael's not, you know, a mother and I'm sure he has a perspective because this happens in meetings all the time from well-intended people. I'm like, hey, I think so-and-so would like to speak up. And we have no idea whether they want to speak up and putting them on the spot is not helpful at all. Right. And so it's the, you know, two things happen when we watch something go down. We either go like, whew, I's learn, let's engage with one another so that we can be informed allies, not just eager allies. And so that takes effort and intentionality. I'll give you an example. At the Seattle Seahawks, rule number two, we only have three rules in the organization. Rule number two is borrowed from John Wooden, one of the great coaches at UCLA. And rule number two is no whining, no complaining, no excuses.

And it might sound, ooh, that's stepping on somebody that actually needs to use their voice. I don't think so in this case because it's meant to be fun. And it's meant to hold some accountability. And I'd like for you to push back on this in some way to sharpen it. But so here's how it plays out. So it says, listen, it's about accountability to you being able to bring your very best. Okay. Independent of the circumstances, things got to get done and you got to bring your very best. And it's the opposite would be, somebody says, as an example, like, oh, someone calls him out. Hey, man, you're late. And the athlete says, ah, you know, the the driver picked me up or, you know, my it's not that. It's funny and it's fun. And the whole room will erupt as soon as somebody hears just the inkling of an excuse. And the room just erupts like, ah, we got a number two

violator. We got a rule number two violator. And so there's a funness to it to help shape. And I'm curious what you think about that when you hear just some of the language that I'm using and the way that we are using it. Yeah, I think in the context of a team and the context in which you shared it, it sounds like it works. And the diversity and inclusion space, because its genesis is in the compliance space, that often is a trigger for threat as opposed to reward. Right. Oh, you mean like the rule, no complaining? Like it's right. Like to your point, right. Like the more people really feel like the DNI work, it has a whole bunch of unspoken rules that,

that restrict them from joining the conversation in the first place. And so, you know, we try and sort of shape it as, you know, positive, positive behaviors, right? We have awareness, curiosity, and courage, which are three inclusive capabilities that we really sort of use to hold people through their diversity and inclusion journeys. But the idea that we would create a set of rules that then would be opportunities to hold against people

or poke fun at them probably wouldn't translate to the DNA. Yeah, right. Yeah. Oh, goodness. I'll tell you, it's like, I can get the razor's edge that we're on with it. And I'm always kind of looking for like, what is that response? Because we know psychological safety is a massive accelerant for performance. And oftentimes psychology is about getting in a conversation with somebody or an organization that is struggling. And that's an error. It's okay. Like we want to be there for those that is struggling. And that's an error. It's okay. We want to be

there for those that are struggling. But the error is that we're missing the opportunity to front load, to get ahead of it, to be part of the shaping of how you can condition your mind to be able to do well in high stress environments. No different than in your case. I imagine if we have conversations about D&I and allyship that we're going to do better when those microaggressions take place or when something happens that is exclusionary or binary. And so part of the getting ahead of things, the front loading, if you will, is that when we're going to go into a stressful environment, we want to teach from a psychological perspective how to be calm. That's a skill. How to generate confidence. That's a skill. How to be focused. How to listen. How to be open. Those are all skills

to practice. What do you do to help people condition their mind to be aware of the internal psychological skills, to be a better listener, to be a better advocate or ally for others. The skill sets and mindsets thing is really about people understanding and just grappling with, this is about human behavior. There is no magic fairy dust that's going to be sprinkled on any of us that's going to make us great at it. And for the most part in the work environment, we want to do stuff that makes us feel great, that we feel good at, to your point, like we want to feel confident about it. And so the D&I space is often full of threat and discomfort. And like, why would I do that? Right. From a neuroscience standpoint, like we're inviting people into all the things that scare them and make them

uncomfortable. And, and yet for me, I say, you know, first and foremost, I want you to, I want you to start to say out loud what you're feeling, right? So even I go into conversations that are really charged and I say, I just want to say out loud that this is a supercharged conversation and I respect you as a colleague. And I know that when we come out the other side of this conversation, we both will have learned something. Because sometimes saying it out loud can let a little bit of the pressure out, right? Or being able to just help it.

You know, I had an individual, you know, stand up in the middle of a crowd and be like, as a white woman in this work, you don't speak for me. 400 people watching. And I said, you're right, I don't. And like, there was a bit of an exhale. And I said, that's also not what I'm trying to do is open the aperture to create space for voices like yours and so many others who can benefit from the platform that I have. And so, you know, sometimes it is resisting the temptation to go to the defensive place and really leaning into the opportunity to get to the human place. Love it.

You know, in mindfulness practices in the world of psychology, as a trained psychologist, I'm going to oversimplify something that's beautiful and complicated, but thoughts have artifact. And the artifact is either they constrict us or create space. And so some thoughts and thought patterns create tension and constriction, and some create space. And just naming an emotion actually creates space. And that's a pretty well-documented understanding. That if you can just put a name to the emotion, I'm calling this emotional intelligence right now, but if you can put a name to an emotion, it actually down-regulates you and creates space in the conversation. And so it's an amazing thing. We don't exactly know how it works. It is quite

amazing. Okay. I've got two questions and I want to say in advance, I love this conversation and thank you for your time and sharing your brilliance here. Okay. So this is a Microsoft question, is that you are driving the internal initiatives, but you're also building partnerships and you're working with leading organizations to advance diversity and inclusion in the, specifically in the tech sector. So what are your insights that you have for business leaders that are facing these challenges right now? For so many of us, we don't have a lived experience that gives us any credibility when it comes to diversity and inclusion. And so the strength is in the vulnerability of not knowing.

And the credibility comes from an intentional, sustained willingness to invest in self-awareness and then to do something about it. Because people don't confuse inspiration with execution in this space, right? You have to do both. And one without the other is not what we're asking folks to do. And so, you know, the vulnerability piece of the work and also the intentionality with which we get curious about identities that are different from ours and begin to think about our own opportunity and accountability to remove systemic and structural bias from the organizations, the processes, the rhythms that we have in our decision-making wheelhouse every single day. And each one of us doing something small every single meeting, every single interaction, so that we as individuals have the opportunity to learn and fail and keep

learning. Because, you know, if you keep sort of studying for the exam, but don't actually do it, it won't ever come to fruition. And I would argue that that's why we've gotten to where we've gotten to, right? We've all done the D&I compliance training. We can intellectualize the cognitive components of the value of diversity and inclusion. But it's not until you're in the conversation with an employee who got pulled over by the police on their way home from work last night and you have to, you know, engage with them in that moment that you realize like, wow, I have nothing decent to say in this moment and I'm deeply intimidated and maybe I just say nothing. And the employee is let down in that moment that we make that decision.

And so just continuing to give people skill sets and habits and behaviors to show them what the buffet of options could look like so that they continue to try them on for size and find their own authentic way forward. What are three steps? If we're going to be reductionist here, what are three steps that company leaders can take to accelerate the push towards racial equality in our modern workplaces? Great question. I love threes. So does the brain. First, I would say, let's go back to that, you know, self-awareness investment effort from the perspective of somebody who needs to uh, start with self before we, you know, opine on others around us. Second would be to make sure that the words and the music match always

in the decisions that you make. Be aware of where diversity and inclusion is present in the decisions that you don't make, right? Who you hire, who you don't hire, who you mentor, who mentors you, who gets the big projects, everybody's watching. And so as a leader, the words and the music have to match. And then, you know, the third would be to get, to get more comfortable with these things that are uncomfortable, because as you said, uncomfort all by itself is a skill set. And the more practice we have to feel it, to try to fail and to pick ourselves up and try it again, the more people will watch us and be willing to join. Right now, this conversation has so many people sitting on the sidelines, cheering on everybody who's on the field,

and we need more people on the field. And so as leaders, we have a responsibility to be able to role model what it could look like and understand that it's relatively easy when you have power and you have privilege or you have organizational status to do the vulnerable thing. And so inviting people who are earlier in career into projects to proactively seek out their perspective, inviting people who are from backgrounds different from yours to proactively invite them into their perspective in a room with a bunch of other powerful people, providing that you architect that thoughtfully and don't put them on the spot or expose them can be really thoughtful ways to uh to sort of open the aperture and create more space for other leaders frankly who aren't

engaging and think that that work is for somebody else but also to be somebody that others want to follow because ultimately leadership is only leadership when there's a group of other people who follow and want to line up in a shared mission. I love it. I'm going to tell you a funny story here just as an end cap here is that, strike the word funny. There's nothing funny about this. To me, it's a powerful story about agency and about where this place, where it comes from for people to do the work. And so it was a big narrative about on the Seattle Seahawks. This was five years ago. Do we kneel? Do we stand? Do we not come out for the national anthem? Do we lock arms? What do we do? And it was a big deal. And some athletes didn't want to lock arms and they wanted to kneel. And so there

was two athletes that I have in my mind. One's kneeling and one's standing next to him with his hand on his shoulder. And the man standing with his hand on his shoulder is a white man. And so afterwards I say, hey, how was that for you? And he said, I didn't know what to do. He goes, but I knew I had to do something because my friend was suffering. And when I looked over, he was all alone. And I just had to do something. It didn't feel right for me to take a knee And I just had to do something. Didn't feel right for me to take a

knee, but I wanted to do something. So I stood there and let him know that I was next to him, no matter what. I was like, that's, that's awesome. You know? And so then I asked the athlete about when he was kneeling, what was that like to have your friend come over and put his, and he said, I didn't feel alone. So good. Yeah. It's, it's beautiful. And, and in those moments where, you know, and, and there's familiarity in those two humans to, to know, to do that. Right. That's right. Yeah. The work that we have to do in the workplace is to get curious enough and be committed to one another success with a level of commitment that allows us to show up for one another in very informed and helpful ways so that we can

collectively grow and advance and achieve together. What do you think about fear of other people's opinions? What do you think about that concept? I think it's one of the great constrictors of human potential that we are no longer afraid of the saber tooth, but we are afraid of what people might be thinking of us. circumstances, right? So I will tell you as a child who didn't come from much, my overarching philosophy through my entire life has been why not? Because the worst possible scenario I could come up with was that I would end up back with a family that deeply love and accept me for who I am, regardless of my degrees or the stamps in my passport or my professional achievements. And that's not the case for everybody, right? So I think we have to accept and understand that there are people's opinions of us that make or break our ability to move forward, to pay mortgages, to look after our families,

and those are real. And so I think just, you know, having respect for it and then being willing to create conversation and awareness because even opinions can be, can be fraught with microaggressions all by themselves. So good. Thank you. I'm so stoked to have this conversation with you. Okay. Lindsay Ray, thank you so much. Awesome. Thank you so much. Take good care. Okay. Bye. Bye. All right. Thank you so much for diving into another episode of Finding Mastery with us. Our team loves creating this podcast and sharing these conversations with you. We really appreciate you

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