Finding Mastery with Dr. Michael Gervais - The Fine Line Between Burnout and Mastery | AMA Vol. 25 with Dr. Michael Gervais

Episode Date: November 18, 2024

Today, we are stoked to share Volume 25 of Finding Mastery’s Ask Me Anything.Joining us, as always, is our co-host O’Neil Cespedes, and today’s AMA is a little bit different – instead of having O’Neil read your questions, we had you call in to ask questions yourselves. We loved this format, it was great to hear some of your voices, and we dove into some really fun concepts like:Combating burnout at the end of the yearBuilding habits and the importance of morning routinesHow to build self-trust, calm, and confidenceIf there is utility in cultivating “alter-egos”How to maintain high performance while not being connected to resultsAnd so much more…Thank you to those who called in – we love digging into what matters most to you. Keep the questions coming, and we hope you enjoy this AMA as much as we did.To learn more about our partner MUD\WTR and receive an exclusive discount, head to: https://mudwtr.com/MASTERY_________________Subscribe to our Youtube Channel for more powerful conversations at the intersection of high performance, leadership, and meaning: https://www.youtube.com/c/FindingMasteryGet exclusive discounts and support our amazing sponsors! Go to: https://findingmastery.com/sponsors/Subscribe to the Finding Mastery newsletter for weekly high performance insights: https://www.findingmastery.com/newsletter Download Dr. Mike's Morning Mindset Routine! https://www.findingmastery.com/morningmindsetFollow us on Instagram, LinkedIn, and X.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Finding Mastery is brought to you by Remarkable. In a world that's full of distractions, focused thinking is becoming a rare skill and a massive competitive advantage. That's why I've been using the Remarkable Paper Pro, a digital notebook designed to help you think clearly and work deliberately. It's not another device filled with notifications or apps.

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stay present and engaged with my thinking and writing. If you wanna slow down, if you wanna work smarter, I highly encourage you to check them out. Visit remarkable.com to learn more and grab your paper pro today. Welcome back or welcome to another Ask Me Anything on Finding Mastery. I am your host, Dr. Michael Gervais,

by trade and training a high-performance psychologist. And the purpose behind these conversations is to hear from you, to explore the questions and challenges that you've been wrestling with on your path to becoming. Joining me as always is my co-host, O'Neill Cespedes. And today's AMA is a little different. Instead of having O'Neill read your questions, we had you call in to ask your questions. We loved this format. It was great to hear your voices. And we dove into some really fun concepts like combating burnout at the end of the year, building habits and the importance of morning routines, how to build self-trust,

calm and confidence. If there is utility in cultivating alter egos, how to maintain high performance while not being connected to the results, and of course, so much more. Thank you for those who called in. We love digging in to what matters to you. So keep the questions coming, and I really hope that you enjoy this AMA as much as we did. So with that, let's dive right into volume 25 of Finding Masteries, Ask Me Anything. O'Neal, we're back. Back like we never left. It does feel that way with you.

What have you been up to? A lot, man. A lot. I was in New York for a while, you know, soaking up some culture. Broke on block parties, even though I missed every last one of them. I'm directing a play that I'm starring in. That's daunting, man. I'm drained. You know?

Tell me more. Othello. Doing it during the holidays. And I've never directed a play before, right? So I thought I could. You're directing and leading? I'm directing and leading in it. So, yeah, I'm splitting myself in two.

And it's just been, I've never been a person that's at least admitted that I've been stressed out, right? I'm like, but man, I'm stressed out. And I'm trying to keep my same daily routine that I keep while doing that. Like I'm getting up at five in the morning. I'm working out. I'm, you know, doing jujitsu. I'm lifting and running. I'm trying to do everything I can do.

But I'm always fucking drained. Because by the time I'm done with play rehearsal at 10 p.m., I get home. I'm trying to do everything I can do, I'm always fucking drained. Because by the time I'm done with play rehearsal at 10 PM, I get home, I'm done. Sometimes I'm having headaches, a whole bunch of weird stuff that I've never experienced before. I'm like, damn, well, my stomach's always bothering me. Like my stomach is always bothering me.

And I'm like, well, how do I, you know, how do I, how the fuck am I supposed to sink all this in? You know, cause I want to get this done. Let me just go hard because I'm told to go hard. Just go hard, stop being a bitch, go hard. You know, I mean a female dog when I say bitch. Oh. Oh my God.

You know, I've said like previous AMAs like, all right, I'm in a mood. I'm catching one for you right now. I'm in a mood, I'm in a mood. You asked me how I was like, couldn't wait. I was driving here like, I can't wait to tell Dr. Mike how I feel about stuff. So what is the, like, what's the mood? Man, I don't know how I was driving here like, I can't wait to tell the doctor how I feel about stuff. So what is the, like, what's the mood?

Man, I don't know how I'm gonna get it done. So is it overwhelmed? Is it fatigued? Overwhelmed. Is it like anxious? Overwhelmed and anxious. Overwhelmed and anxious. Fatigue system? That's where I'm gonna throw it all in there.

So you got all of those going. Yeah, I'm at all of that. And then when, like, when you're in that state, is it, like, what's the coping mechanism? Is it quick to, quick to frustration and tolerance? Is it leaking right now? Yeah. And your loved ones suffer the more, the most.

Yeah. Pretty much. Yeah. So, so it's not like you get small and go into a hole. It's not like you could become depressed and more subdued in that way. It's, it's like you do more and then you have a shorter fuse, shorter fuse.

I was riding down sunset in Echo Park with Kaiser and, you know, the Dodgers are playing, man. I was like, man, I hate Dodger fans, man.

I hate them. Look at them. And she's like, yo, what's wrong with y'all? Like, my bad, my bad. And then this car pulled out and I was like, I, I hate Dodger fans, man. I hate them. Look at them. And she's like, yo, what's wrong with y'all? I was like, my bad, my bad. And then this car pulled out. And I was like, I hate them type of cars. I'm like, why would people buy them cars? Yes.

She's like, yo, you're going through it right now. I was like, oh, OK, yeah, sorry. Yeah, it's funny that frustration and tolerance is oftentimes the public expression of anxiety or depression and so especially for men one of those two primary colors sits on top of you know the the color of frustration so it sounds like it's more anxiety yeah than depression right so the anxiety is like man i don't know if this is going to come together like yeah this could and if it doesn't come together this could be really bad yeah and you know and obviously no one wants to look bad.

So it's unusual for me to go into something and not, like, be sure of it. I like to go into things that I'm sure of. And to go into something and be like, oh, man, and stumble my way through in the dark is just, I don't like that. I like to know what's going on. I want all the lights to be on. I want to see where the chairs are. I want to see where the people are. I don't like just, you know, I mean, this is the most exciting part of high performing environments is that you don't know how it's going to go. Like when you go fight, when you go, you know, get on the mat, when you do any type of sport activity, you don't know,

I don't know how it's going to go. It's most exciting part it's also the thing that with just a i don't know if we push off doc 20 degrees you know our boat it's anxiety and we push off like i don't know 17 degrees it's excitement like there's a real slight difference between those two and it just the the way that you frame it makes a material difference and so it's hard when you can when you get real evidence that you're behind the eight ball it's not going exactly the way you want it to go it's real hard when you have in the face of evidence to stay optimistic and excited when the evidence is like this is broken this look like it's about to break this is underperform you know that to stay in that optimistic excited when the evidence is like this is broken this looks like it's about to break this is underperforming you know that to stay in that optimistic excited when the evidence coming back and the feeling

inside your body has adrenaline some cortisol some epinephrine you know like there's there's like a cocktail of of agitating neurochemicals yeah and then if i'm being honest man i can't tell you how many times I wanna quit. I'm like, how can I quit? How can I find a way? I just wanna go back and work out. Yeah, I just wanna, yes. As opposed to be fit for something.

Yes, yes. I was like, maybe I can just, maybe I can just, if one thing goes wrong, if one little cog falls out of the machine, I'm like, oh shit, it's over. I might as well just call it. Listen, we're done. Let's just cancel everything. Yeah yeah i'm looking for excuses yeah i i i understand

and so like how do you manage how do you manage that energy do you have are you a morning person or night person 100 morning person you're a morning person 100 morning so that so what time you get up 5 30 5 45 so there's like three or four different types of sleep energy profiles. There's the morning person, the light owl. There's the dolphin, as some people have called it, where like they have two different peaks, you know, throughout the day. And they're good nappers, if you will. Yeah.

So you like to wake up naturally in the morning. Love it. Yeah. And then so when you're going to bed late, you're just kind of burning the candle at both ends. A hundred percent. I shut down at like four o'clock, if I don't get everything done by four o'clock, man, it's a wrap.

So this is in a day. Well, I'll get up at five or five 45. The sun's still up. The sun's still up. Yeah. Oh yeah. I'm in the bed. No, you're not. No, you're not. Really? A hundred percent. My goodness. So, so you know there's two things one is i mean there's some decisions some hard decisions that we have to make you can you i we can get after something for like three months for a solid bit of work that is really

tired and fatiguing and draining like a camp if you will in sport like they're hard but when you do them well you're getting all the recovery so that you can play the long game like but we can chunk in some really difficult sleep compromised times it's not optimal for health but it might be a requirement at some point in people's lives i would say we can do better in those three months if we're a little bit smarter about the trade-offs that we're making it's hard when your biological clock is wake up at four or five in the morning, five in the morning, you said before we started and then, but you're not done until 10 winding down 1030 kind of crawling to bed 11. You're only giving

yourself about six hours of sleep. Like it's hard. It's hard. So there's this thing, morning mindset routines that have been really important for me and lots of the folks I work with. And the morning mindset routine, like we've got like a video audio explainer that, that I can, we've created for folks. It's finding mastery.com forward slash morning mindset. If anyone wants it, it's free. It's a, it's a download and I'll send, I'll send that over to you as well. And I think that that'd be a really, it's a four-step process. It takes between 60 and 90 seconds. And during the holidays, I feel like this is a massive moment to be able to make sure that recovery is on place.

I mean, there's so much exciting, great family, friends, celebration, activities. Maybe a little bit later, maybe there's a little bit more stress in some of the relationships, but it's such a great time. And even in that excitement phase of this part of the year, it does still take, you know, some energy out of the system. And so morning mindset's cool. What do you do when you first get up? I get up in the morning. I either go lift or do jujitsu or go run.

I have my whole routine split up. After I'm done with that, come home, shower, put on clothes. Now that I'm working on this play, I go to a coffee shop and I'll edit the play, beat out the acts, put in the actions that I want. That takes an ungodly amount of hours. It does. Yeah, it's insane. By the time I'm done with that, I'll have a meeting

for a television show that me and my partners are pitching. So we're working on the pitch for that, you know, while Hollywood is crashing all around us.

So by the time that's done. Which of course means there's new opportunities that are arising. Of course. Thank you. There is a whole. This is the time for geniuses.

I will tell you. You know the during covid yeah i watched two things happen i watched a group of people go broke and i watch a group of broke people become millionaires yeah so yeah i agree with you wholeheartedly you say coffee shop and it's an easy segue for me because mud water is our sponsor for this episode you said you're drinking coffee i'm all about tea and mud water is like a go-to for me and i'm super stoked that they're part of this program for us but so really what this product is about is a substitute for coffee and so they're using mushrooms as the fuel for energy and a little stimulation and you know how i feel about nutrition this is a great solution i think. And you know how I feel about nutrition.

This is a great solution, I think, for getting some adaptogens and some really healthy choices in in the morning is when I use it. They got a turmeric that I love. It is my go-to for them. And then at night, I use this cocoa mix. It's like a little bit of a hot chocolate, mushroom mixed hot chocolate at night.

Their matcha mix is awesome. And so I don't know if you had the chance to to to check out mud water well it's funny that you said i drink coffee when i go to the coffee shop let me fix that i go to the coffee shop because within this coffee shop is a whole bunch of little restaurants and there's this little asian fusion restaurant that has this amazing mushroom rice bowl. It's amazing. So I go there to have that. Well, because it opens up at deck 10. I have that and I have tea.

I actually don't drink coffee. There you go. And I actually have- It is weird because, you know, I say, sorry to interrupt you. I say to folks like, I say, let's go get a tea. And I know it sounds so weird because they want to go get a coffee. Like most people- No, it don't sound weird to me though.

You don't, that doesn't sound weird. No, no, because I mean, because the coffee shop sells tea. So you're a tea drinker too? I'm a tea, I'm a huge, I'm Jamaican. I'm a huge tea drinker. Oh, come on. Jamaican tea?

No, it's not Jamaican tea, but my mom, I'm making me digress now. When anytime I have a headache or something, I drink some tea. Yeah, my stomach hurts, drink some tea. So it was always drink some tea. So now I'm a grown ass man. I drink some tea. Yeah, my stomach hurts. Drink some tea. So it was always drink some tea. So now I'm a grown ass man. I still drink tea.

Tea calms me. Well, you just kind of insulted me. Like grown men don't drink tea. No, I'm not. And I just told you that I'm a tea drinker. No, I just said, no, I'm a grown ass man. I drink tea. So we two grown ass men drink tea. No, I have tried mud water.

It's like hot chocolate. Yeah. Oh, you like the chocolate one? I like the chocolate one. I put raw honey in it and nutmeg. Oh, that's i haven't tried that so i have tried it before i'm trying to i'm trying to not drink coffee at all i don't think i drink coffee for what i thought i i used to drink it for like the taste i don't i just drink i drink it because i used to drink it because it's a routine like you think about it's i don't know like the idea of like a a bean that is just like the sat around for a long

time and and so then we're drinking like bean water i don't know like i get i like the stimulants of tea but i'm using more because i run so intensely i'm using once it hits 12 o'clock i'm choosing a turmeric i'm choosing something else that doesn't have caffeine in it but these this turmeric on mud bar i'm telling you for inflammation for just kind of all the the health properties that turmeric has and i can drink it yeah and i know it's sourced in a in a thoughtful way i'm about the turmeric right now yeah yeah so i gotta try that i gotta try that that'll be a good one to market noon and that's another cut out the caffeines before noon because the half-life of caffeine takes a long time to eliminate so it takes about 10 to 12 hours to eliminate enough of it so that you can your

internal ecosystem can begin to find a sleep pattern or sleep readiness but if you got a bunch of tea on board or a bunch of caffeine, coffee or tea, and it's not eliminating the body, like after, say, two o'clock, I mean, it's troubles to get to sleep. That's right. Tea does have caffeine, too. Oh, plenty. Like black tea? Yeah. Some of the black teas have almost as much or and or more than coffee. Green teas, a little bit less. Yeah. Yeah. Turmeric at noon.

Turmeric at noon. I'll try that. So a little mud water, tumor at tea. A little mud water, tumor at tea. I'm drinking some mud water right now. What you doing? Okay, good. Send it over. You know what would be a lot of fun?

Is that if on social, our communities dialed up at noon or sometime throughout their day. Now, sometime throughout their day, they took a picture of them drinking some mud water. So this is good for the sponsor. It's good for us too. It'll be and then they tag us so what is your social uh human at human being at human yeah human h-y-u-m-a-n being b-e-i-n-g being as if that spelling was intuitive you looked at me like it's human being like what are you talking about h-y h-y thought it was clever dr mike being clever okay and then they tagged me at michael gervais and then picture of them drinking their mud water yeah that'd be dope all right yeah i'll do it i'll start it off i'll do one

okay you you hit us we'll get it going and then this will just be fun at noon all right and then folks can get a discount it's mudwater.com slash mastery and when you go there obviously you you help out our podcast you help out our community you help out our sponsors so it's mudwater.com m-u-d-w-t-r dot com slash mastery all right look today's gonna be fun so we're in the holiday season we're asking people to send in their audio. You and I had talked earlier that we wanted to hear their voice that, you know, just reading it is, is cool.

Yeah. But like, if we can actually bring people in the room with us that we thought there'd be a little bit more energy. So I'm excited to hear people's voices. Yeah. Let's do it. I want to hear some voices.

I want to hear the tone. I want to hear how they shape their words. And I'm excited for this too. Yeah. Let's get, let's get, let's get it going. Let's go. Hey, Dr. Mike. I love the podcast. Thanks for taking my question. My name is Brad. I'm a basketball coach who loves helping individuals see their true potential and build confidence. You know, I often think about their mindsets and how to make an athlete tougher during, you know, high stakes competitions. What are your thoughts on how to cultivate an alter ego, like how Kobe Bryant became the Black Mamba,

to stay mentally sharp and resilient during challenging games or high stake moments? And how do you sustain that over time without burning out? Thanks. Yeah, that's a cool question. Do you have an alter ego when you compete? Have you ever played with that? No. No.

Yeah. In hindsight, maybe I needed to, but no. Do you have an alter ego when you compete? Have you ever played with that? No. No. Yeah. In hindsight, maybe I needed to, but no. It was after Kobe announced his thing. I got that question a bunch. You know, he's got a Mamba mentality. I think that there's a bit of a risk and a danger in this. Is that I, this goes back to the Bruce Wayne thing.

You know, like you're, all of a sudden you're different. And I am completely aligned with the idea of knowing what your ideal competitive mindset is. So ICM, as I like to think, um, shorthanded, what is your ideal competitive mindset? And that becomes the bullseye for all of your mental skills, training, your physical training, your technical training. And then it becomes the bullseye for your warmup or your preparation routine to switch on, to activate your ideal competitive mindset. Now, if you're ideal, if you are like really kind and thoughtful in your kind of waking days, and then as soon as you put your jersey on, like that doesn't work for you and you're going to be exactly opposite. I think that there's a real problem with that.

You can do it. There's, but it's like, you're breaking your, your, your organic code of how you want to do life that all of a sudden, when I'm at got a jersey on or between the lines, now I'm a, I'm a jerk or I whatever. I'm not being incredibly articulate here because I want to make this point that I want to open up the range for people to explore what their ideal competitive mindset is and then train their mental skills that will allow that to be consistent once they're between the lines. If you can stitch your ideal competitive mindset to your core values, I think it's much easier to activate that. But when it's a complete

opposite persona, completely different, out of character different, I think that gets really confusing. I think it's not sustainable. You'll hear people say this all the time. Oh, he's different or she's different. As soon as like it's game time. It's different. That's cool. That's no problem. But when you abandon the values that you live on a daily basis for that mindset, I think that's where the confusion is. Growing up playing sports, you know, you get told, especially as a young man, that, you know, you should be a killer.

You got to have a killer mentality. You know, you got to go out there and hurt somebody. We used to, on special teams, we used to yell one two three hit somebody and if you can lay somebody out in football you know yeah if you can lay them out you know hurt them do something you get you got love for it i'm in agreeance with you because i think that spills over into your regular life and i think sometimes we forget that you have a whole life after you're playing literally after the game is over or literally after the boxing match or the competition you got to go home to your kids your wife your family who your significant other your whoever and i have heard from playing sports i've witnessed but i have also heard that it's hard to

turn that off i remember a long time ago reading an article from an NFL player and he wanted to remain anonymous and he talked about that like he believed that like a lot of the players there were aggressive with their spouses or significant others was because partly how they were reared from coming up and from being reared that way myself being in that environment myself i agree and for other people to say no no no no you know that's not the way unless you played unless you have been in that environment you wouldn't really know but it's it's almost like they don't know who they are anymore that same person that's that's what i'm talking about that's exactly what i'm pointing to. The confusion and a bit of a recipe for a very hard way to do life is when it's not an on-off switch. You know, we talk about being switched on. Like, oh, this person switched on. It's not actually a I are friends. Larry is for folks that I would

be surprised that maybe don't know Larry, certainly in the U S and the football culture. He's one of the best to ever play the game as a wide receiver. I mean, he is a man amongst children. Like it is unbelievable how well he played the game for how long he did it. He's extraordinary. And Larry is an incredibly thoughtful human. He's gentle and attentive and kind. He's a global citizen. I think he's seen, Larry, of course, correct me here, 74 to 80 countries. He really has traveled and given.

And he's an amazing all-around human. So it was year one or two when i was at the seattle seahawks and we're playing the cardinals that's where he played arizona cardinals and it's pre-game he's warming up and it's totally normal that you would if you see a friend you come up and you talk to him you know pre-game on the field there's probably about i don't know just only about 10 000 people in the stadium at this point so and the stadium holds about 80 000 so it was just kind of getting going that that kind of buzz but not a full kind of electric thing yeah i walked out to him and with this big grin like here's here's a a friend

and i'm getting to see him i'm we're competing against each other but again this is totally normal and i come up like to give him a hug and he looked at me and he goes i i don't do it pre-game and we're friends yeah and he looked at me and i didn't know this part of him because we hadn't been engaged there and so and and and he smiled and i was like oh yeah okay i see you and then i smiled back at him and we both met each other with like this cool regard and and then after the game every time we play it was like we actively look for each other you know to say what's up and congratulate however so he was activating his mind his mindset and because of his friendliness

his kindness his his core values he knows that he needs to start switching on or or amplifying a different a different way and he's not abandoning his core values but he's honoring them and he's honoring himself that we're just not going to do that now some people can some people are big high fives dabs so great to see it it's amazing can't wait for the coin to drop. You know, like I'll see you on the field type of thing. I'm actually not on the field, but you know what I mean? So that's one kind of way to think about he was turning on his ICM. The important part of the story is that he knew, he knows what his ideal competitive mindset is, and he was honoring a pathway to turn that on. And even when it was

an awkward conversation between two friends, like not right now, I'll see you later. Yeah. The other thing is that, so that's the kind of ramp up and on the ramp down is that some people do play with a violent mind in the fight world. There's tacticians and there's fighters. There's people that have violence in their mind and there's people that are incredibly skilled and their aim is to be completely fluid with their craft yeah and the the violent fighter mind is like look i'm going to hit you so hard i'm going to split your palate open right there's a very different mindset between the two and i know i'm speaking to someone who understands both of them intimately, probably.

In sport, if you have a violent mind, if you have a violent approach to the game, there's zero judgment by me on it. Those folks that have that, we would put in place a post-game deactivation. So many of those athletes, we would recommend they don't go home in the same car as their family members. Wow. So there's a window that you need to be able to, to let that shed, to come back to your core values as a civilian, someone walking, you know, at home at night, going from that

violent mind, even, even the highly aggressive, like really keyed up competitors, we would suggest for them, maybe they're not, they haven't crossed into the violent mind, even, even the highly aggressive, like really keyed up competitors, we would suggest for them, maybe they're not, they haven't crossed into the violent mind. By the way, I did a study, the NFL, I surveyed coaches and athletes on one team, the Seattle Seahawks. And by definition or by statistical analysis, they did not see the game as violent. said it can be but for the most part it's not violent but it can be and they would all kind of wink like now we all know who the violent ones are on our team and there's a couple on every team but for the most part football is not a violent game defined by the intent to harm but it can be okay Okay. And so anyways, so those super aggressive and even those that had the violent mindset is that we would suggest that, yeah, don't get in the car with your kids, you know, that

are kind of pulling on whatever, being loud or a spouse that wants to talk about the game or mother-in-law that happens to, you know, be visiting for the game. Like you need a cooling off period. Yeah. Finding Mastery is brought to you by LinkedIn Sales Solutions. In any high-performing environment that I've been part of, from elite teams to executive boardrooms, one thing holds true. Meaningful relationships are at the center of sustained success. And building those relationships, it takes more than effort. It takes a real caring about your people. It takes the right tools, the right information at the right time. And that's where LinkedIn Sales Navigator can come in. It's a tool designed

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And that's something here at Finding Mastery that our team lives and breathes by. If you're ready to start building stronger relationships that actually convert, try LinkedIn Sales Navigator for free for 60 days at linkedin.com slash deal. That's linkedin.com slash deal for two full months for free. Terms and conditions apply. Finding Mastery is brought to you by David Protein. I'm pretty intentional about what I eat, and the majority of my nutrition comes from whole foods. And when I'm traveling or in between meals, on a demanding day certainly, I need something quick that will support the way that I feel and think and perform.

And that's why I've been leaning on David Protein bars. And so has the team here at Finding Mastery. In fact, our GM, Stuart, he loves them so much. I just want to kind of quickly put them on the spot. Stuart, I know you're listening. I think you might be the reason that we're running out of these bars so quickly. They're incredible, Mike. I love them. One a day, one a day. What do you mean one a day? There's way more than that happening here. Don't tell. Okay. All right. Look, they're incredibly simple. They're effective. 28 grams of protein, just 150 calories and zero

grams of sugar. It's rare to find something that fits so conveniently into a performance-based lifestyle and actually tastes good. Dr. Peter Attia, someone who's been on the show, it's a great episode by the way, is also their chief science officer. So I know they've done their due diligence in that category. My favorite flavor right now is the chocolate chip cookie dough. And a few of our teammates here at Finding Mastery have been loving the fudge brownie and peanut butter. I know Stuart, you're still listening here. So getting enough protein matters. And that can't be understated, not just for strength, but for energy and focus, recovery for longevity.

And I love that David is making that easier. So if you're trying to hit your daily protein goals with something seamless, I'd love for you to go check them out. Get a free variety pack, a $25 value and 10% off for life when you head to davidprotein.com slash finding mastery. That's David, D-A-V-I-D, protein, P-R-O-T-E-I-N.com slash finding mastery. So I have a question. Would you say that everything from the minute we are born is a learned behavior? Whether from our environment, from our family members, our friends, we look at people, we

observe, and then we choose to do or do not, right? No, I'd say there's an unfair advantage for some people. So there's a genetic coding that is also part of it. So there's things we learn. There's a genetic coding that has a predisposition or a greasing of the groove to make some choices to learn some behaviors more easily. I would say that it's more of an interactionist as opposed to a genetic predisposition and or only a point to the agency of learned behaviors. Wow. You just smashed my whole theory.

Yeah. So sorry. So sorry. But this is is just my take i want to hear yours no no i mean this is good to know because i've always like what things that i've always found that came easy to me and ways that i handle myself or things that i figure out really easily i'll be like listen i'm i'm no more special than you how come i understand this how come i see this and you don't see this and i've been in the past relentlessly unforgiving to people for that because i'm like this is learned we learn everything so you can either unlearn or you know you can learn so why are you making concrete like what's an example like like let's use this for an example the caller uh asking about you know how do you get that

mindset and i'm like well the killer mindset, right? The aggressive mindset. In my opinion, you watch other, if I'm watching, if I'm playing, if I'm a safety and I'm a freshman on a high school team and this is the senior and he's a five-star recruit and he's a killer, he's cracking people. He's, you know, I'm not talking to you before the game. Don't say nothing to me. You know, like that sort of mindset. And I'm like, oh, that's what it takes to be really good like him. So as the years go on, my sophomore, junior year to my senior year, I'm going to adopt the same mentality because it worked for this guy. It got him in college.

It got him. Okay. So that now we're going to get into the nuances of it. That worked for him. It doesn't mean it works for you. So this is where the customization or the personalization like life is so personal it's so uniquely yours and it's so uniquely my experience like this is going to sound sad but there's no there's no single person even even my closest loving partner my wife doesn't know what my life experiences. She works hard to understand.

I work hard to understand hers, but this internal private experience I have in life, there's so much of it that it's impossible. I think for another person to really understand what it's like to be another person we try. and that's really what love is to really try to understand or it's part of love my point is like this is now the personalized piece is that that savage competitive mindset work for that person it doesn't mean it has to work for you his success or her success using that doesn't mean it is your model for you yeah but if you're attracted to it maybe there's some version of it that's actually pretty close. It's like a color palette. Like, oh, that hue? I like that hue. But it's just, I don't know, it's 20% up or down. And that serving us well is either how our elders or our block or our home shaped how we're thinking about it,

or like we're seeing success happen for that person. The real challenge is to know yourself and then to dress accordingly, to really know yourself and dress accordingly. And that means know how you work best and activate those mental skills to give you a chance to have that mindset that will serve you well. And that, that to me is the game inside the game. The inner game is, is to really know yourself, build a whole set of psychological skills so that you can turn on that mindset that will serve you, you know, to your best abilities. Wow. So as a coach, as a coach, having a whole slew of kids, you have to treat them individually.

You can't, in order to turn on that performance mindset, you can't say, okay, this worked for this kid. It's going to, getting to know them individually, really getting to go beyond that layer is what's called for. I wholeheart wholeheartedly agree with that and like no longer would we just load a bar on somebody's back and say listen we're all squatting we we know that like some people that their bodies are not shaped to load a bar they ought to do some some sort of other mechanism for you know straining their system yeah and it's the same mentally is that one mindset is not going to be the solution. Now, helping each of your athletes understand their ideal competitive mindset is a great lob that you could throw the kids. You could say to the kids like, look, mindset matters here.

Mental part of the game is really important. We can train three things. We can train our craft. We can train our body. We can train our mind. We're going to do all three of those in a very intentional way. We've got a strength coach that's going to help you with the strength and conditioning. I'm going to lead on the technical training. And whether you have a sports psych in your high school team, probably not. You say, look, so on the mental part of the game, where we're going to start is each of you is going to write down your ideal competitive mindset. And then you look at blank stares and they say, well, coach, what does that mean? I just want you to write down what is it like inside of your body, inside of your mind when you are at your best? I just want you to describe it. Are you, is it really smooth?

Is there an agitated edge? you really happy and then you can have there's like five or six kind of icon emblematic versions of this think about steph stephan curry he plays with great joy yeah and he's very clear about that yeah then you look at jordan it's like competitive fire there's an intensity about him and then you look at do you remember latrell spreewell oh of course yeah he was super slanky he was just kind of craft. And then you look at, do you remember Latrell Sprewell? Oh, of course. Yeah. He was super slanky. He was just kind of crafty. And you look up at the end of the game, it's like, how did he get 23 points? You know, like he was more the slanky, crafty, kind of like slippery, not demonstrative in

any way. Yeah. But, you know, double, double up there. I don't know how many double doubles he had, but it was slanky if you will is the word i use so anyways there's like there's lots of versions of it but helping your kids know at least what the bullseye is and then drop down from that then over time you start training mental skills that will support it like you can train confidence training them to be more calm, go down the list. And these mental skills are not complicated. I mean, we built a course to help folks do this,

but they're actually not quite, they're not complicated to teach and train. So anyways, that's how I think about it. Yeah. I love that. I mean, you gave me some insight in essence, correct me if I'm wrong. You're just saying let your, let who you are, your personality come through in your, in your play and your performance your performance right and there might be a slight contour or slight shift in in like your mindset and my mindset right now and the mindset if we're going to go compete you know at something that we're both really passionate about a different a slightly different version come on i might get quieter more intense i might get louder and you'd be like oh look at who is that yeah so i'm suggesting i i personally do not abandon my core values for my ideal competitive mindset it feels like there's a

through line there that would make sense to you but if we're competing at like put on some basketball hoops and we go compete you'd be like oh oh i get it now yeah yeah oh i see that like i'd be you'd you'd see a different version of me but not an abandonment to my core values i love that i love that hi dr mike my name is maz my question is i'd love to hear your views around how to maintain high performance and not be attached to the results, specifically in relationship to closing sales in business. I'm a huge fan of your work. I've applied a lot of what you teach, at least the parts that I've consumed, and it's made such a huge difference in my life in, in ways that I'm so grateful for. So thank you so much.

This is kind of related to what we, you and I were talking about earlier about the anxiousness of that. You're going through designing this play, directing it and leading it. And so people who care, who really care, it makes perfect sense to me that there'd be some anxiousness around it. And so this idea that like, how do you separate results from an outcome from the process that is hard to do period. It takes a disciplined effort

to be able to stay deeply connected to the controllables, the things that you can directly and radically influence to give yourself the best chance to have the outcome that you hope for or dream of or are ambitiously working towards. It's that discipline to stay connected to what you can control is special. It's rare. And I think it just asking the question, I believe that you understand the value in it. How do you do it? There's no magic sauce here.

It is a discipline in thought. Coach Carroll from the Seattle Seahawks would often say to the athletes after a win, let's be great. Let's be disciplined with how we're thinking about our potential. This takes great discipline. Did not think that we got it all covered now. We won three in a row. It's just going to be a glide path.

Takes great discipline to focus on the task at hand. When there's incredible amount of options that would pull you from the present moment, I'm coming back to this word again, there's a discipline to stay connected to the process, to the task at hand. I find it so special and rare that it's actually quite beautiful when people could truly let go of what the outcome is because they're so consumed with mastering the task at hand. And when you do that and you think about like this moment plus this moment plus this moment plus this moment and you can contour the way that you're working

in this present moment in a high art way like of course masterpieces take place and so that that is the word i go to a discipline it's special it rare, and when people do it, it's quite beautiful. I mean, that's an ideal space to be in. I feel as though the world and its great golden measuring stick that it has, that people who want to perform at a high level that are wrapped up in the results aspect of it that we look at and you don't want to look if i'm if i'm just you know making it simplified you don't want to look bad so as you're in it right as i'm in it yeah i want to enjoy the process and the magic of it and and and the little victories that happen within the whole process, for me, I can only speak for me,

because of that measuring stick and because in my mind I'm like, I want this shit to look great. I want people to walk out of here like, God damn, that was amazing. I want that sale to close. Because you want to just woo people, because you've been reared, because you've seen, you've grown up like people getting accolades. And then you start to equate that with your self-worth because you're like, OK, if I win, I'm the shit. If this play is amazing, I'm the shit. I close this deal, I get promoted, and I'm the shit.

I got to be the shit. As opposed to being like, let me just enjoy this. It's wonderful. If I don't become the shit, it's not a big deal. I would like to be in that space. And I would like to say I can transcend wanting to be the shit. But even though if I was to say it, I'm lying, right? Because I want to be the shit.

So how do you separate yourself from that? What if, what if your being the shit didn't hinge on some extraordinary output? What if you, what if you could just make a decision that you are this unique ecosystem that is working on two things and you're working on being okay with who you are right now. And you're also working on investing in a better version of yourself and so that better version is the restlessness to become something that you're that you're not fully able to express right now and what if that was the main focus like you're okay with who you are and you're working to get better as opposed to like i

need something outside of me to tell me that i'm okay right now and that later i'll be okay instead of it being based on like their view of you or the income or the results or the sales that are the measure of it but you just kind of made a decision on it, what would that be like for you? Ideally, that would be amazing. That would be- What holds you back from just making that decision? Here's the thing, and I'm gonna say this in the most jumbled up way

I could ever explain anything. I feel like that now, I truly do. In this moment right now? In this moment, I feel like that now, but I also want the accolades like those two things are existing inside of me what if i were to suggest that you only get one of those at a time which one would you want more often what what would the percentage game be like for you oh i mean 100 80 20 80 my self-belief and my actualization of myself and who i am and 20 the outside world

that's a cool model is that how it's showing up for you not currently most of the time yes but not currently flip the other way sometimes yes it's the other way yes so again i'll come back to like the discipline of go be true to your model okay 80 of your thoughts are focused on like the task at hand and mastering the task at hand and 20 of it is like look if these things line up well it's going to be amazing or if these don't line up well it's you know it's going to be problematic you know maybe it's something maybe just kind of instead of an all or nothing switch that i'm talking about maybe you just honor an 80-20 in there. And we're talking about you here, but this is like a much more pervasive issue, let's call it, than maybe we readily address. And the question is brilliant about how to separate from the results in the process. It's hard. This is not easy to do. And I would just go back to that word,

a discipline to stay true to the model that you're bringing forward, the 80-20. Finding Mastery is brought to you by Momentous. When it comes to high performance, whether you're leading a team, raising a family, pushing physical limits, or simply trying to be better today than you were yesterday.

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And if you're ready to feel the difference for yourself, Felix Gray is offering all Finding Mastery listeners 20% off. Just head to felixgray.com and use the code findingmastery20 at checkout. Again, that's Felix Gray. You spell it F-E-L-I-X G-R-A-Y.com and use the code findingmastery20 at felixgray.com for 20% off. Hey guys, Oris here. Hope you're doing great. I love to hear your thoughts on toxic workplaces. And I mean, when you bring your best self to the workplace, but that makes either your direct boss or your boss's manager feeling insecure about their role or their position at the company. So how does the first rule of mastery, not fearing other people's opinions, mixes with Robert Greene's first rule of power, never outshine the master? Because in this case, they literally have the power to hold you back.

They could either block promotions or other opportunities to grow at the company. And even if you quit and go somewhere else, you might find yourself in a similar situation in the future. And for most people, quitting might not be an option. They have to stay there. So what are some tactics or strategies or protocols that you think would be beneficial? I'm going to be honest with you. That question is really difficult for me because if I'm in a toxic work, I can only use my experiences. If I'm in a toxic work environment and I have that threat of if I outshine, like he said, if I outshine the master, there's an issue, I'm leaving.

If you are my boss and this person above me and you make me feel uncomfortable in any way, you make me feel nervous that my performance could be threatening to you or a high performance could be a detriment to me, then things are clashing. I'm confused. My wires are crossed. I'm having a malfunction. I can't be there because from the way I was taught, I'm supposed to come here and do the best that I can do. So if I do the best that I can do and

it threatens you, why am I here? So I would just remove myself from that environment completely. Easier said than done. You know, if you've got three kids and rent is due and the options, you know, are easy, right? Easier said than done. And I really like the power of what you just said. I align completely with what you just said in my life. And so that's what we're talking about, high agency. Now, the question was actually quite nuanced which is there was i think three parts to the question to address one is okay your first rule of mastery is to stop worrying he used fearing it's actually worrying but that's a subtle subtlety here that we don't need to actually unpack stop worrying about what other people think why why stop worrying because when we're worrying we're not being true to our purpose, our primary fundamental

commitments that we're making in life. When we are worrying, excessively worrying about what other people think, our true purpose is for approval or not to be rejected. And our life swings around that idea. Talk about toxic. That is a draining system to operate rejected. And our life swings around that idea. Talk about toxic. That is a draining system to operate from. Now, the second part of it is that when you can outshine because your very best is quite bright and it's dynamic and it's an amazing capability that you can bring forward. And according to Robert Greene, don't out, don't outshine those folks. That's the dark art.

So the dark art is to know how to blend these two. You and I would be like, no, I'm not playing the dark art. I need to be around an environment where people are challenging me to be my best, where they want that because that helps them, that helps all of us. And we're more like a real team as opposed to some bureaucratic hierarchy, power and control structure that stifles and extracts the workforce for the one or the few that are going to benefit. You and I are both calling bullshit on that. The dark art that Robert's talking about is like, understand power. If somebody is really operating from the old model of power and you shine a bright light on yourself, the Australians call it the tall poppy syndrome, that the tall poppy that

pops higher than the others gets lopped off. So don't rise up too much because you're going to get taken care of by other people. The old design of power is that know your place. Do not make me look bad. And there's something in there to be honored, meaning like, look, if your brightest best self is also making other people look bad, maybe there's some ways that you got to think about how you express your brilliance. There's more of a community in the way that we can share ideas than it always has to be your idea, for example, or not grandstanding in a moment

where you make your supervisor look stupid or silly. Like there's a subtlety in here that I think is also important. And what I'm pointing to is EQ and social intelligence. Emotional and social intelligence are really important. And the way I read Robert's first rule is that he's simplifying it, social and emotional intelligence, and saying, look, just don't make people look bad. Please understand this.

You make somebody look bad, if you embarrass somebody publicly, I don't think you get that relationship back. Period. Full stop. And I learned that in sport. Even when people say, oh, you know, that's just coaches and athletes, they'll work that out. You throw your clipboard down, roll your eyes and like yell at somebody in front of your

peers and their peers or on TV and it doesn't get worked out. Yeah. I view that as the worst form of disrespect when you do it in front of a lot of people. Yeah. I agree with you wholeheartedly on that. Yeah. So there's a subtlety in the question that I just want to address. And then to stay on this thing on the public embarrassment piece is that if you critique publicly, you have to repair publicly.

Critiquing publicly and repairing privately does not work. Because you and a football team of like 100 between coaches and athletes, the 98 have made up a story about what's actually happened. So if you're going to critique publicly, I'm telling you right now, I don't think the relationships really get repaired, but you do need to repair publicly. So the best model is from military special operators. This is where I learned it at least.

Praise publicly, critique privately. And so if you can honor that, you end up taking care of like the vulnerability that people, the excess vulnerability, most athletes really, really, really, really care. You do not need to point out the mistake. They know. They instant, you instantly know when something didn't go the way you hoped it went. So the frustration is, is one of two things. It's either frustration, like you're making me look bad and now I'm frustrated or I'm frustrated that you didn't put in the work. And so, so you can address both of those in different ways other than an undisciplined way to embarrass another person when, you know, there's easier said than done because you build family members, kids, and that nature. Aside from, you know, not making anyone look bad and shining so bright that you're embarrassing people and things of that nature, what are other options? Like, if you are in the situation where you have a boss that's treating you in that way and you're like, okay, I'm not making him look bad. I'm not doing anything to publicly humiliate him.

So how do I navigate through this? Because I can't leave this position. What do I do? You know, that's a good question. We can kind of make up a couple scenarios. I'll share a tactic that I learned early in sport is that when I ask questions and I'm using the questions to illuminate that it's like they come up with the genius answer and it's not a question of inspection, but it's to elicit the solution that is most organic for them and it came from

them. Now I'm just a great partner. I might've had the same idea. If I'm in the position where the question could create, according to Robert Greene's idea embarrassment or does somebody looks bad based on the inspection tonality of the question it's a it's a it's a it's a problem for people so let me come back to like what i'm suggesting is like figure out how to ask questions to be a great partner so that the person that you're asking the question to feels like they came to the answer themselves and that's one way. It sounds complicated, but it's actually kind of, I don't know, it's quite nice.

It doesn't feel like acquiescing. Like, let me figure out this clever way to, I have this idea that you haven't thought of, but let me figure out this clever way to make you think you thought of the idea.

Because it would, I feel like it would breed resentment from on your end, like, man, I had to, you know, tee that up to this person because they're i'm in this situation and the other person would be like oh god i see what he's doing like please just say the thing so if you ground yourself in it the dark arts then it

could go sideways but if you're really grounding yourself and being a learner and valuing the genius or the knowledge base that's inside of another person and trying to bring that forward that's really cool i think that works yeah i guess i'm posing the question the way i'm posing it because it from being honest that's my word of the day a bit of ego is connected to it because it like, why do I have to acquiesce to you? But I understand your point about not making your, you know, your boss look bad. But that,

that is in my head. Like, why do I have to acquiesce to you? Why do I have to tee it up to you? In some, in some folks you don't, some folks it's like, you know,

you're going to take a job or work with somebody. You want to understand how they lead. Yeah. You know? And like, I want to be around people that really direct and are like hey i don't know if you thought about this but like i think we're missing it here or like say it and be clear there is but the questioning of like hey have you thought about this or

have you explored this or has this gone a certain way that like i've missed before like and not doing it in an inspection way but really a curious way way. Yeah. It's cool. I think it's the best coaches in the world. Ask more questions than give direction. Gotcha. Gotcha. Hi, Dr. Mike and O'Neill. Yes. First off, I am a pool player.

And about six years ago, I was in a position where I was playing exclusively with a semi-pro player who was a lot better than I was. And after about a year of this, my confidence started fading. I got to the point where I just didn't trust my abilities anymore. And I started trying not to miss shots instead of letting things happen and just shooting with confidence. And because of this, I developed a horrible hitch in my stroke, and the anxiety that I developed because of this was horrible. Now it doesn't matter who I am playing against. At some point, this lack of trust in my abilities shows up and sabotages my ability to stay focused and be the player that I know that I can be. Because when I am practicing, completely focused

and playing in the moment, it is a beautiful thing to see. I would love to hear you and O'Neill cover these topics of self-trust, belief in yourself, and keeping your mind calm when competing. Thank you. Man, you know, that takes me back to when I was in high school, when I was in high school and my basketball coach was a imposing, just intimidating man. And, you know, he used to be like, if you shoot and you miss, I'm snatching your ass out the game. And...

Says every great coach. Oh my God. Come on. And I developed this, and I was a great shooter. I could shoot. And I became a terrible shooter because every time I missed,

I would hear the, and I would look and I would get snatched out of the game. And it physically affected my shot. And I'm telling you, this is crazy because I never got over it. I'm a grown ass man. I never got over it. And I've often wondered, and I'm not bullshitting you when I say this, every blue moon it pops up in my head, like, how could I have fixed that?

How could I have overcome that? And I'm not, I could be driving to the store. I could be in my bed laying down. Every blue moon, I revisit that moment in my life. And I'm like, I could shoot. So why couldn't I shoot when he was threatening me? And then I would practice shooting more and more and get up more shots. I'm like, okay, in my mind, repetition would fix that. The repetition would fix that and it only got worse. And I'm saying all this to say, I don't fucking know because I still am dealing with that. And I don't even play basketball anymore.

How do you? Oh, the two of you. Yeah, how do we do this? All right. I'll tell you how I heard the question. First is like, did you hear his voice? Like he was, I don't know, felt like he was going to, you know, start crying during the question. Like there's a lot of emotion for him.

So, you know, empathetically, I feel for him. Meaning that there's a lot of distress coming from this thing that he's wrestling with. Same for you, probably, if it's been years. The piece that I hear that sings above the rest is that, hi, I am a pool player. And he didn't say, hi, I am a 36-year-old or 56-year-old father of, or, you know, he didn't go another role or just kind of do some other description of him. He described himself as a pool player, as opposed to, hi, my name is, and I play pool on a regular basis and it's something I love doing. So he is identified or his identity is wrapped in intricately into what he does. So this is the classic performance-based identity. I am what I do and I am how well I do what I do relative to you. Finding Mastery is brought to you by Cozy Earth.

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products that elevate your routine without complicating it, I'd love for you to check them out. Head to calderalab.com slash finding mastery and use the code finding mastery at checkout for 20% off your first order. That's calderalab, C-A-L-D-E-r-l-a-b.com slash finding mastery and then so that's kind of the the first corruption of the foundation and so i would start there like okay well let's talk more about who you are well what do you mean well you said you're a pool player is that it no i how often do you do that well i think about lot, but I play pool three hours a day. Right. Let's go bigger. Right. Nobody is defined by just one thing, really. Even the best in the world at something can't be defined by that one thing. And that's

a philosophical position I have. I don't have research articles to suggest that only thousands of years of philosophy that have kind of pointed to that same thing. So, so I would start there. And the second thing I would say, okay, so what's happening is that you had that one of the triggers was you had somebody that for you in your case, that said something that gave a, an ultimatum that created pressure for you and you didn't have the psychological model to manage that pressure. So you did what most of us would do is, well, I need to get better at the skill. That's true. So going to work and being, having deliberate practice around a skill and amplifying the conditions to make them more difficult to execute the skill in practice is a great tactic, but it's necessary, but not sufficient. It's not enough. The other variable

that needs to get into place is like, how do I, what's my thinking strategy around this other person that is next to me? In your case, a coach, in his case, his partner. How do I want to think about either the weird sentences this person says, or the support, the challenge, or the support this person gives me? And then you have to make a fundamental decision, like, is my mind gonna be dictated by another person's presence? And most people come to the final resting place who's like, it is affected by other people,

but I don't want it to be. So you have to make a decision here. Are you going to allow another person to influence your internal state? And if most people say, no,'s not how I want to do it. I don't want to be whipped around by the approval or the rejection or whatever from the other person. I need to do it my way.

And my way is to be honest to my ability to think clearly, to execute to my highest ability, to be focused on the moment and not have all of these other things pull my attention for this greater cause of being accepted or rejected. There's just a decision first that has to be made. What am I going to do about this type of dilemma? If I was, if you and I, if we were cousins, you know, and like you leaned over, you're like, Hey man, this coach is driving me crazy. And I'd say, and I had some wisdom as a 16 year old, I'd say, well, what are you gonna do about it? You say, well, I'm gonna go to the gym. I said, yeah, that sounds good. I say, but

like, why are you letting him get in your head? And you go, I don't know. Cause if I make a mistake, I want to play. If I make a mistake, I'm going to get yanked off. What kind of mindset do you want to have? And you say, I got to block him out, man. I said, well, what do you focus on? You say, I just kind of focus on like seeing the back of the room and snapping my wrist. I got to focus on trusting my stuff. Okay. Well, how are you going to, how are you going to do that? Okay. Now we're pointing to all psychology. What John is pointing to is trust, trust of self. Okay. so how do you earn trust of self? You need time under tension. You need to get to the edge of your capabilities and you need to back yourself.

So the time under tension is like put yourself under stressful conditions and or think about all the times you've been under stressful conditions. You and I have both had time under tension. John has had time under tension, real pressure in our lives that we've managed. And be very clear about how you back yourself. You have backed yourself in those moments and how you will back yourself up in moments of pressure. And so there's a narrative going into the game. You go back to when you were 15 or 16, like, look, stay true.

Look, snap my wrist on my shot, like do my thing. And if I get pulled, okay, that's the consequence. But I know that I'm likely not going to get pulled if I'm really dialed in and focused. I know I'm going to get pulled if I'm thinking about what he's thinking about me because I'm not focusing on the back of the room. I'm not focusing on feeling that smooth, that smooth way that I shoot the shot. Again, how you go into the situation, backing yourself in the situation is really about building trust. And so trust just comes essentially from what you say to yourself,

but it has to be real. It has to be forged in some sort of pressure packed fire. Do you think performance-based anxiety and us wrapping up our definition of who we are and what we do would exist if the world didn't hold high performance in such high regard. Meaning, you could be in the game and shoot a thousand bricks and people are like, that was great. You missed it all, but it doesn't matter. You're playing the game. You're playing pool. You're scratch. You mess up all, but it's great though. Just all of the way you played after the world. Now, obviously this is, this will never be, but if we live in a world where we just enjoyed

watching you perform, not at a high level, just perform. Yeah. You were, you came in last place, but man, you were running. Do you think there is some blame to be laid on? I mean, the majority of it on us as individuals, but Do you think there is some blame to be laid on? I mean, the majority of it on us as individuals, but do you think there's some blame to be laid on the earth and the world itself? Because high performance people are rewarded with all sorts of things from accolades to money. And so low performance people are like, well, and then now we have people saying, Hey, I don't give my kids participation awards because our mentality is if you participate on a high level, it pushes you. It pushes your

boundaries as a human being. Now you are a better human being because you can squat 500. You got a 40 inch vertical leap. You average 25 points a game. You're, you're hitting home runs. Now you are a better human being because from what i see that's how the world treats high performers right and then those high performers some of them not all of them i don't want to generalize act as if they are better human beings and you know it's so on and so forth and so on so how can someone that is if i'm an alien and i visit this planet and i'm like oh shit in order to be good in order to be accepted by these people on a high level, I have to do what they do, but better than all of them. Yeah. You bring up so many good points here. Like, you know, we've got these ancient brains and trying to sort out modern, modern, modernity, modern life. And are we cooperators? Are we competitors? You know, like kind of what what is what is the origin story of the humans

we are designed for cooperation there are warring tribes as well yeah and so it is both in my best estimate we our ancestors figured out that like oh when we have to go to war you know who are really the cool people the the ones that like we need to take care of, the ones that saved our children. So those are the high performers, right? The warriors were the high performers, the ones that kind of blew it. And, and, and like our children are now taken by the warring tribe and our wives or, or whatever, like that's not, that's not the path for survival. Yeah. Okay. So there's, there's a reason we take care of the extraordinary performers, call them warriors at one time,

now performers. It's part of safety. And so we're holding on when we see these very successful performers do something well, part of our brain is holding onto that narrative. Like these are the ones that take care of the tribe, but we don't really have tribes like that anymore. So it's complicated. We live in an outcome performance obsessed world. Our culture, certainly in the West is obsessed with it. So we raise our young to be, to have a performance identity. You are what you do, how well you do it is really important in this world. And so that is the broth for a pretty salty soup when it comes to health. We're over salted in that. So how would we do it differently? Well, we'd probably need different DNA or we have a radical shift in a concentrated effort to change a

subculture. I mean, that's really what we're trying to do here, you and me and the Finding Mastery community and the lab here is like, what is a better way? What does a great life look like in 2024? Like what is a great life? Is it to hustle hard, to grind, to get after it, to win everything? I mean, there's nothing wrong with any of that, but is there a better way? Can we live aligned to a purpose and have our performance be a contributor to purpose? Because when we perform really well and we do really extraordinary things, it amplifies resources and options to accelerate something that is bigger than any of us. And the purpose of the tribe at one point was really important. What is our purpose now? Is it just to perform? It's too small. It's,

it always has been to take care of other people, to do something generative. And so there's a calling right now. Anxiety is at an all-time high, depression's at all times, suicidality, addiction, sleeping disorders, like all-time high in our is at all-time. Suicidality, addiction, sleeping disorders, da-da-da-da-da. Like all-time high in our, I don't know, 100 years that we've been around. You're not 100. Like our 40, 30 to 50 years that we've been around. It's really high right now. It doesn't mean it wasn't that way 200 years ago.

We didn't have 600 years ago. We didn't have the data to compare, I think to or at least i'm not aware of it to now so we've got some stuff happening right now we are rudderless when it comes to purpose yeah so what's the anecdote think about your purpose what is it what is it that you why are you here to make money and to look good probably not not going to really solve, you know, you know, you're already, you're, you're already doing fine. You look good. You know, like compliments.

Those are compliments. Just compliment me. Yeah. Just compliment you. Oh, you look good too. Thank you. Thank you. So we're doing okay.

Two men were complimenting each other. So like, but like the anchor down to like, what's a big purpose is I think the answer that I hear for John to drop down to that and then put yourself under pressure situations so that you know how to speak to yourself in those situations. And that's what you carry forward to build trust, to really back yourself, to know how you need to speak to yourself when there's stress or pressure in

the system. And I would just, I'd anchor on those two. There you go, John. Don't be like me and carry this thing 10 years later because i'm 28 because i just was in high school 10 years ago good man dr mike this was great this is i can't believe the year's almost done too this is uh listen man i know you probably might say no but let's just do this every day bro let's live together let's just hang out look, I love doing this with you. I love the authenticity and the way that you bring yourself forward. This is really cool to hear, you know, our people's questions.

Yeah. To hear kind of the struggle that's in it. Like, I really appreciated that. And at the same time, like, we're all trying to figure something out. Yeah. We're all in this together, so. Yeah. And I love the holidays.

Some people want to say, oh, it's so stressful. I love this time. I love the holidays for this one reason, is that we're trying to figure out how to be connected a little bit better. Sometimes we do it with gifts. Sometimes we do it over a meal. I just love what this phase of our calendar represents. Yeah, it's amazing can i make a

suggestion before we uh why don't we form a finding mastery caroling team and we just that's just like i thought we're gonna have a dinner like a little banquet kind of yeah true kind of turkey thanksgiving thing and you you took it to caroling yeah yeah bring it back old school old school like are you leading no let's not do that let's not do that listen i'll tell you a funny story we'll wrap up maybe we do this maybe in la we get together and we go caroling i i say this with knowing that the chances of this actually happening are pretty low it was in like fourth grade i came home and i said to him said to said to my mom, I said, you want to hear something funny? She goes, yeah. I tried out for the singing, the singing choir. And she looked at me and I said, you want to hear something funnier? And she said, what? And I said, I got in. Like, I'm telling you, I can't sing for anything. They must've heard me and felt really

bad. And like, I cannot sing, but i would love to go carol with you and watch you kind of do your thing and i can be the i can be the one off pitch a little bit okay so folks you heard it we're forming a caroling team just a short probably for a week and we might pop up at your door so don't turn us away yeah again the chances of this happening are pretty low and i appreciate you o O'Neal. Thank you. Appreciate you too. Thank you.

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