Finding Mastery with Dr. Michael Gervais - The Power of Attitude and Effort | Former NFL Player & Momentous CEO, Jeff Byers

Episode Date: November 20, 2024

What happens when athletes translate their competitive edge and discipline from sports into the business world?Today, we have an extraordinary guest—Jeff Byers. Jeff is a former NFL player turned entrepreneur, cofounder, and CEO of Momentous, a leading company in human performance nutrition. With a unique background in professional sports and business, Jeff is passionate about translating the discipline and resilience learned on the field into strategies for health, wellbeing, and high performance.I LOVE what Jeff is building at Momentous – it’s really special. Our values and visions around high performance and helping others reach their potential are so aligned that we’ve worked out an awesome partnership – and I’m really excited to support their mission. And – Jeff is an amazing human as well. If you’re interested in pushing your own boundaries, fueling yourself for optimal results, and learning from someone who has excelled both on the field and in the boardroom, then this conversation is for you.P.S. If you’re serious about making an investment in your health and want to learn more about Momentous, just head to www.livemomentous.com/findingmastery where you can receive 20%+ your first order._________________Subscribe to our Youtube Channel for more powerful conversations at the intersection of high performance, leadership, and meaning: https://www.youtube.com/c/FindingMasteryGet exclusive discounts and support our amazing sponsors! Go to: https://findingmastery.com/sponsors/Subscribe to the Finding Mastery newsletter for weekly high performance insights: https://www.findingmastery.com/newsletter Download Dr. Mike's Morning Mindset Routine! https://www.findingmastery.com/morningmindsetFollow us on Instagram, LinkedIn, and X.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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stay present and engaged with my thinking and writing. If you wanna slow down, if you wanna work smarter, I highly encourage you to check them out. Visit remarkable.com to learn more and grab your paper pro today. What happens when athletes translate their competitive edge and discipline from sports into the business world? Welcome back or welcome to the Finding Mastery podcast, where we dive into the minds of the greatest thinkers and doers. I am your host, Dr. Michael Gervais, by trade and training a high-performance psychologist. Today, we have an extraordinary guest, Jeff Byers. So Jeff is a

former NFL player who turned entrepreneur. He's a co-founder and CEO of Momentus. And Momentus is a leading company in human performance nutrition. So he's got this unique background in professional sports and business. Jeff is flat out passionate about translating the discipline and resilience learned on the field into strategies for health and well-being and high performance. I love what Jeff is building at Momentus. It's really special now. Our values and our visions around high performance and helping others explore their potential are so well aligned that we've worked out

an awesome partnership. And I'm really excited to support their mission. If you're interested in pushing your own boundaries, which I imagine you are, fueling yourself for optimal results and learning from someone who's excelled both on the field and in the boardroom, this conversation is for you.

And just a quick little note here, if you found value in these conversations, I'd love for you to take a moment and leave us a rating and review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening to this podcast. It's really important. Your feedback helps us reach more people and grow this incredible community. So with that, let's dive right into this week's conversation with Jeff Byers.

All right, Jeff, you and I have had the privilege of knowing each other for a while now, but we've never had the mics on. Yeah. So this feels like a little bit of a treat for me. Yeah, it is. Yeah. This is why I wanted to have the conversation with you is because you've had a lot of success at each stage of your life. And I don't know if you can clearly articulate all the variables that go into you continually finding success or we're going to have to hunt around and peck around a little bit

to figure this out together. But you've really done it. Yeah, I've been really lucky. Definitely the cards have fallen my way a couple of times and have had to overcome some things. But I it was like these two things that still stick with me today. And I talk to my boys about them. You know, my wife probably is sick of me saying them to my boys. But he talks about attitude and effort. And two things you can always control in your life.

And he kind of says, there's this whole circle of things that you can control. And then there's a whole circle of things that actually drive impact in the outcomes of your life. And then there's this tiny little overlap. And two of those things are your attitude and your effort. And, you know, I remember as a little boy playing sports and him telling me about him. I remember, you know, in school, struggling in school and him telling me about him. And they've really stuck to me of like, I can control how I show up each and every day. Right. And I, I only, I know how hard I can work. Right. And I think those are the things that, whether things are good or bad that have been really impactful that I remember those things. I remember writing those on my, on my

wrist tape, right. Playing for SC back in the day, right? Like when I would be down, like effort, you know, if I wasn't, if I didn't think I was trying to, like those are my guiding principles that I think have really helped guide me in a lot of my success, but also not allowed me to, right, feel sorry for myself or focus on things

that aren't important. Okay, so for clarity clarity gatorade player of the year in the high school kind of days um you made it to one of the premier college programs or football college programs in the country usc university of southern california um and then you found your way to the nfl and now you've founded or built a really successful company as well so like all right and then that's just for context for the background attitude and effort those are pretty well understood principles that are important yeah but you somehow your dad did it in a way that brought it to the surface and like you metabolized it in something that you're passing to the next generation. So how did he, how did he pull that forward?

That's a, it's a really, I don't know. Right. Like I remember it being part of a lot of conversations. There you go. Right. And there's like this consistency of message. And then it's really easy to point to almost all things in life around like, did you give it your best? Like asking that question, like after a game, it wasn't a, hey, great touchdown. It was an effort question. Right.

And it was like always back to what could I control? Because I can't control the outcome of the game. Right. I can't control, you know, how other things go, but I can control the effort and attitude I put into it. And so I think it was like this constant reminder of like, do you think you worked hard? Yes or no? Yes. Great game. When you, when you said yes. And he watched you. Oh yeah. Right. And, and it was not surprise you uh my son is 16 and um you know like hey grayson how's practice you know i don't go and watch i'm not i don't feel like

that's the right vibe i might watch for a few minutes at the end so he knows that i care but you know i'm not really watching but then i'll ask him like how it's going and if he's like yeah it was great i had a lot of fun or or like i didn't get this done or i didn't whatever whatever his attitude is we just have a conversation about it or his insight is and then um uh did you practice hard and i saw him just not straining the way i know yeah he's still in let's call it the top third. He's straining, but not really straining. Closing that gap between a 16-year-old's perception that, yeah, I'm working pretty hard, and the absolute type of strain required to unlock something, I find it delicately personal. You could crush somebody, and you could at the same time, you know, have conversations to help them really understand it.

Yeah. You know, so it sounds like your dad did not crush you with it. Like, son, you think that's hard work? Yeah. I mean, my dad was hard. Yeah. Right? But he wasn't hard.

At the same time, like he. How did he balance those two? That's a. Right. Integrity is big in my family. Right. At the same time, like he, uh, how did he balance those two? That's a, um, right. Integrity. It was big in my family. Right. So he talked the walk and walk the talk.

Yeah. And like watched how he, the effort he put into his life. So he worked hard. Yep. Okay. And you know, it was always like a lot of the conversations you would have would go back to like the attitude that you would bring to it. And like you, you can reshape most of the conversations and most of the tough points back to

attitude and effort. Like, did you do anyway? So it just, I don't, I don't actually know. Like, like,

well, bring me, bring a story forward if you can about like how he would demonstrate integrity. Oh man. This is young. So my dad is a beautiful pianist, which is like very surprising and all of this.

Is he also a large human? He's a large human, played offensive line, right? Like he has a very kind of similar story that I, glide path that I had. Oh, he did. And I remember as a young kid, I didn't want to play piano.

I didn't want to be outside playing. I was the get outside and play all the time. And so I remember hiding my piano books and saying, I don't have any piano practice. Right. And it was a pretty vivid conversation about not being honest. Right. And being out of integrity around that. And, you know, it's okay to say you didn't practice. It's okay to say you don't want to practice, but it's never okay to like deceive, right. And be out of integrity. It's, it's okay. Not, it's okay to not say you practice, didn't practice.

And so I think that was like, that's a pretty vivid memory in, in my mind around, you know, I feel like that was like the first time I really did that with my family, my parents, and I like vividly or like of age to like deceive and just remember that that was something I never want to be. Yeah. And I like, I didn't let him down for not practicing. I let him down and let my family down or my mom and dad down for lying about not practicing.

So. I think there's something that we all sort, try to sort out. and let my family down or my mom and dad down for lying about not practicing. So, uh, I think there's something that we all sort of try to sort out. Like, how do we get over on things that, you know, um, at a young age and some people never kind of get out of it and they're still

lying to themselves and to other people. But like, it's cool that you had that vivid memory that your dad held a standard for honesty and he didn't make you feel too bad but you felt enough yeah you know in there that you're like this is not how i want to be was your dad more interested in who you wanted to be or what you wanted to do oh that's a deep one um he was more interested in who i was going to become who i I wanted to be. Yeah. Right? Like it never mattered as a what. And I think that's super interesting.

Like grew up in a family where obviously sports, but if I didn't play sports, it wouldn't matter. Right? It wouldn't matter to them. You know, my brother and sister played high school sports. They never went on, you you know but they're both jds they have their you know they're both lawyers and or got their jds like neither one of them practice um but it's like a really interesting like it was always do your best right it doesn't

matter who like what you do matters who you become and what's the impact you can have yeah so effort and attitude are characteristics skills that you can develop you know they're not pointing at like if you don't work hard you'll never be a lawyer you'll never make it to the league yeah that might be in some narrative somewhere in there but it is more about who are you becoming yes integrity attitude effort these are all controllables but the two big ones were attitude and effort so i i'm the reason i ask that is because i'm the world is trying to like this race to the bottom the world is i we're obsessed with performance in our western culture and then of course we're going

to develop a performance-based identity like we really care about performance yeah how well we're doing in every facet of our lives. And that starts like in first grade, second grade. So I'm right now, I'm, I'm asking my son saturating him more with questions about, you know, who rather than what. And I feel like it's creating a little bit of, um, it's like a breath of fresh air, like an air cover to explore as opposed to like, hurry up because like college is coming. Yeah. You know, and if you don't have your grades right.

Yeah. However, I would like to hear how your dad navigated the high school years. There's lots of folks in our community that have high schoolers and younger because you do have to perform at a high level to get into usc yeah and so how did he how did he help or both mom and dad how did they help support that ability to really perform at a high level yeah that's a unique one here and when i think about my performance in high school like i was a gifted athlete, clearly, to be able to get to where I was. And I was a really good student.

And being good at school was not optional in my family on there. So it was always put school first. But for sports, I think it was just if you're going to do it, you're going to do it. And you're going to be in. And I just had this huge inner drive. Like I grew up kind of in the Midwest watching this guy named Michael Jordan and watching the incredible things he did. And I was just really, really inspired to outwork people on the field, in the weight room and all of these things and be like Mike.

Right. And it's, I would say my parents never pushed my dream, but they definitely fueled it. Open that up a little bit. It was never, if you're going to, if you're going to do it, you got to go to college or why don't you play college football or you should go play college football or any of that it was what can we do to support you in your dream in what you want to do versus we want you to play football go play football uh and i think that's uh to me it was the support system around me but never making me about football i think that that was a, if we fast forward,

making sure there was more to Jeff than ball was a really important gift that they gave me. That took me a little while to figure out. Finding Mastery is brought to you by LinkedIn Sales Solutions. In any high-performing environment that I've been part of, from elite teams to executive boardrooms, one thing holds true. Meaningful relationships are at the center of sustained success. And building those relationships, it takes more than effort. It takes a real caring about your people. It takes the right tools, the right information at the right time.

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In fact, our GM, Stuart, he loves them so much. I just want to kind of quickly put him on the spot. Stuart, I know you're listening. I think you might be the reason that we're running out of these bars so quickly. They're incredible, Mike. I love them. One a day, one a day. What do you mean one a day? There's way more than that happening here. Don't tell. Okay. All right. Look, they're incredibly simple. They're effective. 28 grams of protein, just 150 calories and zero grams of sugar. It's rare to find something that fits so

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Get a free variety pack, a $25 value and 10% off for life when you head to davidprotein.com slash finding mastery. That's David, D-A-V-I-D, protein, P-R-O-T-E-I-N dot com slash finding mastery i think for me that's been really important in my life that some people might say burn the boats burn the bridges you know like there's no turning back that's the only path that never worked for me i i always had this um not a hedge but I would call it multi-dimensional and it would allow me to like not be collapsed into one thing. And so how did they do that? I just, uh, I think just encouragement into all the things that I loved and also forcing me outside my comfort zone. How'd they do that? Um, yeah. like i sang in choir in high school which nobody would

it's like one of those things that i can always stump people of like random facts about jeff i sang in high school choir um and and your your big paws actually could strike some notes on a keyboard yeah i sang no sense yeah um did you but you did play piano i did not play piano long enough it's like the one thing that i wish i would have stuck with because it's such a beautiful beautiful thing and like i go home and like my dad plays a piano i'm like man why didn't i just stick with it yeah right um but we had to like it was like one of those things like hey you need to do some sort of the arts right like because we're going to be balanced humans and respect a lot of people who are your dad's heroes? That's a good question. I would say his dad probably is.

Oh, look at that. My grandfather. And then I actually don't have that answer. So you said Mike, Michael Jordan. Yeah. Would you put your dad in that? Oh, yeah. I would put most your dad in that like oh yeah i would put i would put like most influential people in my life like my dad pete carroll michael jordan right like people that shape a lot of who i

was like jordan was like a very aspirational inspirational person and like just watch his effort and his work and like i just fell in love with sports. And I wanted to play basketball. I didn't want to play football. Because I loved the game of basketball. I just happened to be only 6'4", can't jump, and super strong. And that doesn't work. Better suited.

And couldn't shoot. There's that too. And then my dad was a really really good athlete played collegiate football uh but an incredibly successful businessman and uh watched him make a lot of impact in the world and still do and just like always think about how we can drive impact beyond beyond making money um i watched him give a lot of his time back. I watched him, right. Like in terms of like just fellowship and, and, and all sorts of church giving and things like that,

that was really impactful to like see a very successful person always find a way to give back was important to me. And then, you know, I played for USC for six years during the heyday of Pete Carroll. And, you know, really when I think about who shaped me the most into a leader of teams, it's Pete. Amazing. We're going to have a lot of synergy there. Yeah. I mean, for the listener who doesn't maybe know this part of me, but I was fortunate to spend nine seasons with coach Carroll up at the Seahawks. You got six with him at USC, both winning programs, both breaking barriers that like, you know, were extraordinary, still talked about today.

And so, yeah, what a remarkable person who understands people really well. Yeah. Yeah. And so what are some of the things you learned from coach? Oh man. Uh, coach showed up the same every day in my eyes. And that consistency from a leadership perspective is incredibly important. Um, and I kind of see that as that is attitude, right? When lose draw, you knew what you're going to get, right? And it didn't matter. And Pete was Pete and he showed up like Pete. And there was, I've had coaches I played for that. You didn't know what you're going to get that day. And it's really hard to follow a

leader like that. And also Pete really cared about the people. And I uh there's a lot of leaders in business there's a lot of coaches that might air quote care about people but i like what i saw is pete believed he had an obligation to impact people his his guys in a positive way like people coming from all walks of life right and he is like he's changed redirected a lot of a lot of young men's lives for the better and therefore that impacts community I remember Pete going on you know overnight cop card rides and waltz and things like that when we were at USC to like you know what's is a really tough really tough neighborhood yeah in los angeles um yes home of the watts riots yeah for folks that might not be so i remember pete oh like pete always showing up the same right so you're pointing to when we

think of trust trust of self and trust of others and if we bifurcate that really important psychological interpersonal component is that for me, it rests on three variables. It rests on character, authenticity, and ability. So what you're talking about, so the character authenticity, let me do the authenticity pieces. Like, do I know what I'm going to get? Is this person consistently going to be the same person there's some variance of course yeah independent of the external environments somebody we win we lose do i get the same person so that's one stool one leg of the stool ability meaning is their logic sound um like do they have the coaching chops to get it done like do i trust their skill do i trust their do they have the coaching chops to get it done? Like, do I trust their skill? Do I

trust their logic? They have the ability, that character consistency we talked about. And the third one is benevolence, which is, do they understand and or convey how it works for me too? So are you seen? Are they consistent? And do they have the chops to get it done? If those three are in place over time, trust has to be built over time. Then you go, oh, I feel pretty good here. Yep. Like I'm seen there's some consistency I can bank on. Boy, this person's got some great skill. Yeah. Yeah. So as a leader, how do you show up in those three ways for your people or your family? You know, you can go either way. Yeah. And then I got to follow on. That's not going to be so easy. I think for me is like, you got to be present when you're present, right? That's about being seen. Right. And we all struggle with it, but like, like you gotta make eye contact with the people you

work for you gotta genuinely care about what they do and you gotta show some acts of gratitude right it can't always be around work for me like this acts of gratitude like thanking people and and doing little little special things just like the personal touch goes a very long ways um for example for example i just randomly send you know little 30 to 60 second iphone videos to people um and just saying hey i noticed this this was an awesome job way to have a great week um and just you know just reiterate some of the great things that they're doing. But a lot of times, somebody in ops, they don't get any love. They just deal with other people's problems and other people's problems. It's like, oh, we don't have enough product, or product's late.

And so they get theirs important part of the company as the best salesperson. A hundred percent. Do you, do you operationalize that? Meaning that like every, every other Monday, you know, or is it more organic?

Like when you catch some interesting news or you see something and it, it's organically planned, right? Like I'm making, I make an effort to do it you value it right so it's right it's not just like oh i'm randomly joey did a great job i'm gonna email joey or send him a video it's hey who am i gonna talk to today what i'm gonna what what am i gonna make sure i spell out um on it and it's just like and it kind of creates this muscle memory it becomes a habit

right and then you notice you're doing it and other things it's like oh man i'm just thinking about you like i really appreciated what you did for me right like it's this act of gratitude that i think is kind of part of like are people being seen yeah on there and then for me it's just like i know who i am like i'm really proud of who I am. And so I show up that way. And when I don't show up with energy, with passion for what I do, I don't like that. Right? And so I don't know.

So like, I just, I know who I have to be. And sometimes it's harder to be that because sometimes like, sometimes it's hard at home. Right? Sometimes I've been on the road and it's like man do i really need to go back to la or do i need to go and it's like no i this is a choice everything's a choice i'm making this choice so i get to choose how i show up and that's back to like you get to choose your attitude it's like i want to right. I want to be the guy that is always working, that is upbeat, smiling, high fiving, right. Loving what we do and making sure we can tie things back to the vision and impact of what we do.

Like, why are we doing the things like the purpose behind me being in the building or momentously being, being in existence? I was hoping you would be able to articulate it this clearly because that is, Jeff, since I've known you, that's how you show up, you know, and that can last a little bit. You can fake people out for a little bit, you know, I don't know, a couple of months, maybe a handful of meetings, but over, like it's the consistency that what you're talking about

that's really hard to fake and if it's great so you say well how do people do that you answered it i just know who i am obviously there's going to be a follow-on there like okay what's what do you recommend the work to know who you are like yeah like what does that bit of work look like but let's pause that but i just want to just i'm i'm like yeah very cool that you understand it you can speak to it because you're consistently doing that and i imagine your people feel it and they're like i don't know why it's great but i love working here yeah you know like it's there's something about the way that you're conducting yourself that's gonna create a. Yeah. And the last one is like knowing the skills that just takes effort.

Right. To know the skills. Yeah. Like to be good at anything, you got to put time in. Right. And like, you just got to do it. I don't know. Like, how did I get great at business? I just drank from the fire hose. Like I remember right after the NFL of like, I don't know what the hell I'm doing and I'm going to fight and fight and not drown and not drown. And it's just like, and you slowly, and you just grab this piece of information and then you go ask for help. And it's like, you know, probably also

like, how do you get great at skills? It's like, you have to have a lot of humility and you got to ask for help a lot. All right. And that's one of the things I learned. I was like, nobody expects me to know why should I, like, is my ego telling me I need to know, or what is this? So it's just like, I don't know. Let me go talk to somebody who's done it before, or like phone a friend here. Like it's, uh, to me me like the skills come and you got

to put the time in you got to have humility to be able to do that but like to be a great football coach you're not born with it you're not born you know to be a great athlete like you might have great physical right uh proudness or whatever but like those things take time and they take a lot of effort to get good at. And you just got to put the time in to be good at anything. Finding Mastery is brought to you by Momentous. When it comes to high performance, whether you're leading a team, raising a family, pushing physical limits, or simply trying to be better today than you were yesterday, What you put in your body matters.

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Like this is not a born trait. You know, you're not born with a certain set of capabilities. You've got to dig deep and to refine them, to bring them out if you shine them up and bring them out. So, okay. I didn't realize you're this much of a systems thinker. I didn't like, I didn't know that about you, that you just walk through almost step-by-step drop. It's almost like you did a dropdown menu for each of those three

verticals and you hit two others that would support the one. So under benevolence and under character and under skill, you're you're like oh it's asking questions and and doing the hard work and you know you're swallowing your ego like what's going on there like be humble like that was three actually yeah so i didn't realize you're a systems thinker in that way yeah i don't know if i would ever um associate myself on that and i think some of that is like probably some like i i sometimes feel like i have imposter syndrome right because i i where i'm at i'm like do i should i be do i have any systems yeah yeah do i have any systems yeah right um and my co-founder in the business is incredibly systems oriented and a lot of that is rubbed off on me she's a former mckinsey you know consultant

you know very classically trained and you know i was trained i went to usc and i played in the nfl right and so my my my thought process process is uh not always linear um but i do think in ways like that like how do things stack up and and yeah that's probably your training like okay if i want to be fast i've got to work on strength and mobility yeah you know like what are the things that sit underneath speed oh strength mobility and right so that's probably what you just did yeah which is a bit of systems thinking yeah you know yeah okay so are you let me do let me do the hard question first and then then I want to come back to some skill building stuff. Which of those three is, the leg is a little bit shorter,

a little bit more wobbly. I think I can always get better at my skills from a business perspective. Yeah, the ability piece. The ability piece, I think I can always get better at that. But I actually think I'm at the point of like diminishing returns. And I think we're all of the benefit for me becoming a better leader and a better human is the scene part, right?

I think others, yeah. Seeing like, right. Like how do I see others? The benevolence piece. It is so important. This is how it's good for the company. And this is how I think that it's going to benefit you yeah i think in my personal life right like that interpersonal connection is like like i have great business skills now i can go

probably run and lead a lot of different companies out there um that's not a challenge for me right like i've learned those and to get you know like if you call it like i'm in the 99.9 percentile to get 0.01 more would take a immense amount of effort but not have a very big impact but being able to connect and see others more deeply that goes a long ways to building meaningful relationships and building impact because if you can make that personal connection with somebody even deeper they're willing to go that little bit further that makes the difference and then they rally somebody else on there so i i would say like i I have a lot of, I feel like I have room in business, but I don't know if that's the right, like my skills, my capacity. But realistically, I think the biggest impact that I can make in the world is by continuing

to see others. And you did another interesting thing is you reframe that as all three of them as skill building, which I, they they are the question was like which one of those legs fall short where other people don't know how to trust you and you reframed it into like no i'm a learner i'm trying to get better i think i'm pretty good here the one i want to get better at is yeah so that's interesting i mean it's not interesting as a placeholder word when for for me at least, that I don't know what else to say.

I think other people say the same. Well, that's really interesting. To me, it always means like you don't know what to say about it, so you just use that word. So let me slow down. That is how – so you just naturally flip to development and growth, not to like deficit and some i don't know some sort of weakness in the model is that does that seem yeah organic to you yeah that's like how i

functionally live my life okay so let's go back to the question if your wife was here she'd say oh no he's pretty trustworthy yeah oh he works hard like yeah he's sturdy he's and i say okay well which one would she say? Yes. Sometimes I'm trying to do a wise voice. I don't, I shouldn't do that. Like I'm doing my wife's voice in my head, but sometimes my wife, my wife would say, right. To see others. Right. Cause I spread myself. So thin. Okay. I went to bed probably for about 15 years

every night. And I went to bed with this really deep, heavy feeling and this very familiar routine type of thinking pattern, which was like, man, I let so many people down today. Cause I made a lot of like, I don't know, it's not promises that I couldn't keep. It was like, I just wanted to meet with so many people or do so many things that like, it didn't end up happening because I feel like at that point in my life, I was seeing life as a buffet and like, I was already pretty full. And there was like, that analogy doesn't't quite work but thank you for humoring me but i see it yeah you see some of it there but so but that feeling was awful yeah and i i want to note this too that i get the benevolence thing like the seeing others you are a flat-out high performer at multiple stages in your life there's a selfishness

that does come with that at a young age can usually does it did for me it's one of my great pains in my life and so like what's the sacrifice and the selfishness i'm talking about the sacrifice was really what i missed by hydrating and caring deeply about time with my loved ones. Yeah. The sack, my sacrifice selfishly was also theirs, but they didn't have a flip and say in it. Yeah. So I see you in that. I see me in that piece. That's my struggle. That's your struggle. When you say it's your struggle when you say it's your what part of it is your struggle it's um you know we have a mutual friend kelly starrett he calls it session cost right and like everything we do there's a cost to it and to be great there's a cost to it right

and you can minimize that cost uh but you have to be aware of that cost. And it took me a while to be aware of session cost. You think about training from an athlete perspective. Session cost is like, I lifted like this today, and I have a session cost that is going to inhibit me from performing the next day or the next day. And in life, right, like dedicating really fully to a young entrepreneurial growth company, there's a session cost in there, right? You bring home baggage, you bring home stress, you bring home all those things, or sometimes you don't come home because you're working, right? And that session cost a lot of times goes to your personal life um and you have to be aware of it and a big thing for me is like how are you aware of it

so that you can create um you know i call it it's almost like boundaries in your life but for me it's about being present and it's hard it's like a really hard struggle to how do you, because I want to be great at everything I touch. And it's hard to be, you can't be, if you try to do everything, you can't be great at everything. What was the emotions that just happened? Kind of some sadness, right? Because the people who allow me to be great are sometimes the people that get

like the last ounce of jeff right rather than the first ounce of jeff yeah um i feel that sadness yeah you know like i don't talk about this much but that's the one for me yeah it's mine where where do you feel it as you're talking through right now what do you mean where do i feel like like in your body yeah like back of your eyes you know like little in my hands what keeps you from back of the eyes usually means you're about to cry what keeps you what keeps you from crying no i mean i don't know like uh people know i sometimes just like i'm not a crier first off but like oh you were about to i was about to um because i love my i love my wife

and my parents and my family deeply um but i to me it's like a sense of like like i know i know where i sit and i know where i need to get better. Right. And it's how do you make those steps consciously to do it? And it's like, it's just like attitude and effort. What I used to write on my stupid wrist tape when I was an offensive lineman, it's like, how do I, what are my reminders every day? Like how do I go home and be present? What are the things I set up to do to make sure that my wife and I have time right when I'm not working on that and I have time, right?

When I'm not working on that and the little things, right? Like I want to make sure that the people that work for me are seen. They got to do the same thing at home. A thousand percent. Like, I just got to tell you, I really appreciate,

like this is what modern leadership is. It's connecting the really rich emotional feeling parts with clear thinking and taking action in a way that builds people, takes care of people because people are what build services and products. If we're not taking care of our people, us included, myself included in it, the products and services that come out of there, you can fake it for a while. It could be glossy and nice for a while. But if we miss that, one, our marriages fall apart.

Better than 50% in the US do fall apart. I understand that. I did a whole conversation with my wife about this on air, the stuff that, you know, we've, we've been through, we've been together like 30 years and it is a daily, daily commitment to like be great. Cause there's so many other,

other things that take more time. Yeah. And if you're not careful, more attention and more care. And that's the's the sacrifice where I feel all of the sadness of, you know, like here's a small example. When I was in graduate school, it was great. I was doing my thing. She was doing her thing. We're both had an agreement, like let's go get it in our, in our respective fields. And I was in the library in a dark

corner of the library where the sports psychology journals were until they were kicking me out. I read every sports psychology journal at the time. And so like that really set me up with a great platform on research and applied research and like how it works. But the amount of time that I wasn't home, oh my God. And that's just one small example. You know, that was 30 years ago 25 years ago so and and and and and and so yeah you know we think about practices what here's a practice i have um i'd love to learn one from you i'll share one you if you if you will okay when i go into my sanctuary so the garage door opens up and i'm going to walk into my sanctuary my home um phone is off i've got to take a moment whatever i have to do in my car or

in before i cross the threshold to go into the house that i take a moment to so i walk through that door just like you would you know go through the tunnel like there's a threshold moment on the field or whatever yeah field to play is or when you put your helmet on wherever that moment is where you're like, let's go. I don't know when the game started for you. Usually it doesn't start on the whistle. Usually for great athletes, it starts before the whistle blows. I call it three starts every game.

But so, so that's, that's a really rich practice for me to be a great husband. Great father is that threshold. Yeah. Oh man. I honestly don't think I have a great practice in that. And that's probably right. Like I'm inspired.

Oh, you like that one? I do like that one because I will say like, as, as momentous in my career has grown, I've gotten better, right. At setting boundaries.

Right. I don't believe I, I struggle with the word balance because i don't i think balance is misleading i don't get it um but there needs to be some boundaries and what you just said is boundaries yeah that threshold that threshold is real yeah it's really and uh no like when i bring home work it's never a good thing right um and that doesn't mean I don't talk about work. It just means I need that break. And so I, I don't have, I don't have a great one. Try that one. So it goes like, let's stay in touch with that one. Because like, I feel it's so simple and you've practiced threshold crossing.

Yeah. A hundred percent. Like a lot. And so, and like, think about, I think you mentioned that, you know, your, your family had christianity as a background you don't walk into that sanctuary on your cell phone never right yeah you actually there's a practice that they set up that is actually before you walk in touch this holy water yeah you know just do a sign do a sign show everyone that you're kind of getting into the zone here that's really an interesting thing that i've never took or thought about from sports is right there was always and and coach coach carol did

such a great job of like every time you walked in the field right i'm in right and it's like it's this mindset of like how do you check in to go into a different different route that's right right and uh yeah that that i never um that i've never brought into my work my work oh well that'd be a fun one for you um and i think it's important right because like to me like i think about where i have the greatest success it's like on the weekends i rarely use my phone anymore right i just like you know it's like we're jeff i tried calling you i was like i don't know where my phone is at it's a weekend weekend, right? Like, so I'm trying to be, cause it's a, to me, it's a matter of presence, right? And that, you know, like showing up for others is presence, right? Like how do you have

presence with them, right? And that's. But that's a practice. I'm not ready for that practice. That's that you just kind of up my threshold silly silly auntie, to you put your cell phone down on the weekends? I mean, sometimes I don't even know where it's at. Oh, my God. No. It's tough, and it's worked really well. It's worked really well for me. Because then I'm there for my boys.

And man, my eight-year-old, my middle boy, right? The other day, maybe it was like three weeks ago he's like dad how come you're on my phone on your phone can't you just read books with me and i'm like i was like i'm reading on my phone and he's like it's not a book and i'm like you know what a A kid saying like, that's right. He's right. Right.

And he doesn't even know. He's just like, yeah, he's calling dad. I'm like, I'm sitting here reading a book. Why aren't you reading a book? You know?

Um, and I could have been reading a book on my phone. I wasn't, I was doing work emails, uh, you know? Uh, and so,

but it's like, that is, uh, that is right. And there's a, there's a quote that I read every once in a while that you made me think of is like your employees or your coworkers will never remember you leaving work early, but your kids will always remember you being late to one of their things for their life. And it's like, man,

that is deep. And it's like, but it's like, how do you balance greatness here and greatness here? Cause I'm going to be great at both. Like I'm convinced. Yeah. That's it.

So anyways, it's, it's deep. I did two things with my wife when we had our son, you have three, I have three boys. We have one. I think it's easier with one.

I'm just saying, I don't know. It's just pure chaos with three yeah zone coverage now yeah so i um this i this was a really cool one we she wrote a page i wrote a page one or two pages i can't remember it was about the character and virtues that matter most to us so just get a long list this made things so much simpler in our decision making she wrote a list i wrote a list and then we narrowed it down and we're going to do four two each like these are the four character virtues that we want to really hydrate for our child um as we're raising yeah you know um a human and we narrowed it down to two so we just circled circled circled conversate debate whatever

and it's kind and strong so i mean whenever we're like in like a what do we do about whatever or like we just fall back to kind and strong yeah we need to be kind and strong and to show him kind and strong and to support him to be kind and strong and then like your system's thinking well what what would we put in place to be more kind yeah what would we put in more place to be stronger what does strong mean what does kind mean like it's just been awesome and so i don't know if that inspires you in any way it does we've uh you know my wife was um a collegiate athlete played played pro volleyball, right? Like very, like she's a better athlete than me. I'll openly say that, right?

Maybe first time ever publicly admitting that. But she thinks and talks a lot like that. Yeah. Right? And that's really important to her and what we do as a family. And like what, like it is really the greatest calling we have, like the greatest impact we can have in this world is what our kids become. Finding Mastery is brought to you by Cozy Earth. Over the years, I've learned that recovery doesn't

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I'd love for you to check them out. Head to calderalab.com slash finding mastery and use the code finding mastery at checkout for 20 off your first order that's caldera lab c-a-l-d-e-r-l-a-b.com slash finding mastery oh it's radical when you think about it and it's cheesy at some level so i don't want to fall into the cheesy. It is so radical though. Yeah. Like there's going to be a human contributing a lot. And I mean, I mean, like, I don't mean at grand scale.

I just mean like the things that people say to each other and do or don't do actually shape other people. Yes. Even if you only see them for five minutes, you know, or 30 seconds. And those that hold doors open, make eye contact and smile and say, you know, just, I see you. Yeah. And they do it at a, at a coffee shop. Like that stuff, it's amazing.

Like how much that can actually impact people. Yeah. In the small sense. Anyways. Yeah. That's cool. Yeah. That was a, we can go down that rabbit hole.

Let's go down the rabbit hole the that that to me is one of the most inspiring things to do what i do right is to create impact of like you um i remember in high school having college football players come back to the high school weight room i played in or worked out in and that would come and tell you about what it took to be great in college and remembering what that did to my motivation. And then when I got to USC, the platform that you're able to do and you're able to impact, the amount of people you're able to impact when you have success is magnified and it becomes more and more of an obligation. A lot of people don't take advantage of that obligation, but ultimately, right, this world we call home is a special place and it's what makes it special is the people and that personal interaction and that care and love

for each other and how can you create impact through those people is really, really powerful. And so as I've seen in my career of like playing in the NFL, like every day, every Tuesday in the NFL is like community week or community day. And you go in the community and you go volunteer and you can go to inner city school or, you know, in Carolina doesn't, wasn't always interested. It was a, you know, a, who it wasn't always interesting. It was, you know. Who was your quarterback?

Cam Newton. Yeah. And you could go and, right, I started a handful of games in the NFL. Nobody knows my name. I thought you just. Right. No, but listen. But you could go in and there could be a third grader that's, right,

living down and you go give them a high five, and you might have changed that kid's trajectory. That's right. And that is impact. And that is because of my position, there was obligation to make impact. Now as a leader as a company, I have the ability to impact how people go home

and treat their families, and what is the impact they want to leave on the world. And think about business business not just in sense of making money but what are we here for because ultimately people who are happy and healthy are thriving right and thriving people create more happy healthy people and it's like how can we create a culture and really what momentous right has like part of what we do is we can help make people happy and healthy right and it's like this really cool thing that I've been empowered of like, what is my why?

What is my impact? Can I make a bigger impact? How do I make those impacts in the world? Because we are, as a society, veering off in a weird way. That doesn't look good and i believe that we as people with interconnect interconnectivity and thinking about each other a bit more can really drive change and the people who work for me i hope they go to start new more i hope they go on to start companies i hope they go to start families and like spread this just like what Pete did. What I saw coach Carol do is like,

he created this whole little system underneath them and influence all these people that went back to their communities and definitely had a positive impact. And it's like, how can I do that? Can I do that? Can I am capable of that? Oh, I have an obligation to do that, right? Because I have something that makes me able to run and lead a company that some other people might not want to, but that is my obligation to give back. How did you come to have clarity on your purpose? What was your work? Oh, man. It kind of goes back to my, I would say my grandparents, my dad's parents, my grandma and grandpa really showed how giving into a community can drive change.

And I thought I was like the only grandkid that spent time with my grandparents. It turns out they spent time with every one of their grandkids, all 13 of them, right? A lot of time with them. And they were really lucky to do that, but they invested in us to show, right? Like I remember them, right? I remember going to a meeting with my grandparents, building the community library in the community they were in, right? And I remember my grandpa and my grandma starting an arts festival right like or being a part of that and it's like i watched them create this impact in their communities and it was really inspiring to me to see what success can do and how success is actually just an obligation to make the world a better place um and so at a young age i saw that through my grandparents because i gotta spend a lot of time with them and then it kind of just rippled through what my dad did right and then i got on

this football train right and what is my purpose in life and why why am i here and i have right like i have this great gift to galvanize people around things. And whether that I was born with that or I developed it, but for me, like my purpose is I can help inspire people, right? I can show people what effort looks like and attitude looks like, and I'm called to do that. And I'm going to show up who I am. And I would say what was, what really ironed that out for me was my, right after my true freshman year at USC, I started on that, that team and I had two hip surgeries and it was kind of this, you never play football again moment. And I didn't like football defined me or, or I let it define a lot of who I was. And it was a huge, this huge turning point. I remember calling my old man after my first hip surgery and going back to, for a post-op

and, you know, being like football's gone. I was just told football is gone, crying, just bawling. And he didn't feel sorry for me one bit. I said, nobody, like nobody cares, right? Like, like, like nobody's going to remember this part of your life, right? Only you will. And it was like, you went to USC for a reason. It wasn't to just play football for Pete Carroll, right? Take advantage of this opportunity that you have. And that to me was like, what is my purpose here is not to be a football player. My purpose here is not to be a CEO, right? Like my purpose is to how do I leverage

what I have and what makes me super special and help lead and guide people to those things. And so that's, I would say like that really, like that was a pretty big factor in my life of like, who do I want to be? How do I want to become a lot of inward reflection around like, OK, how do I make the most of my time at USC? What does sport mean to me? Why do I love sport? What do I want to do beyond sport? And what does a win for Jeff look like? Not what is a win for Jeff, the football player, Jeff, the businessman or Jeff, like what does win for Jeff look like? And I've, you know, like that's evolved a bit over time and, and grown, but it's, it's

that was a pretty big impact as a 19 year old to think through that and like feel very lost um because football was who i was to kind of pull on the main notes here is that you had a performance-based identity your identity was wrapped around what you did and how well you did it yeah um your dad was principle-based, not performance-based. I would say he's probably, yeah. Yes. Yeah. My dad is a performer. Hardcore. Hardcore. Okay. Yeah. You didn't say what- But has principles, right? Like, I mean, he ran one of the largest meat companies in the world. Okay. So pause that because what he responded to you was with principles, right? Not like, okay.

You are right. Yes. Yeah. So there's something that has some gravity around your dad, or at least the way you're explaining your dad around the principles. And he didn't meet you with sympathy or pity or even all of that compassion in your story in this book. Not that he doesn't have those, right? Yes.

But he went straight to like, you're missing the big picture here yes and so from performance-based to a crisis to principles and then that set you up like okay what is the bigger version of my life going to look like you know and so you started wrestling and it sounds like you were just thinking it through yeah and it was a journaling was it thinking to yourself was it was it talking to with other people yeah i think i um the first thing i did was just uh to me uh silence and stillness is not a good thing right and so i because because i think better and work better when i'm busy. Right. And when I'm doing right.

Like if I don't have, I thought you were going to say it gets really dark in there. It probably does too. I don't, I don't go there. I just, I, I just,

to me, I find purpose in doing and like failing and winning and failing and winning and failing and working and work like all this of like it, it like helps guide me. And like I drift. And i'm not a i don't journal right that's not who i am um but i do write down the things that are important to me right and it takes me a while to write things down right because when i write them down it's like this is my gospel extroverted thinker introverted feeler yeah very much so very very much so and then i think um that crisis had you know was latent with a gift and that gift was to kind of knock the calcium off the performance identity get down at some principle

based 100 purpose-based you're clear on your purpose which i think if to summarize it is um to help people thrive yes through happiness and healthy yep uh approaches to life or something like that i don't i don't uh like i think that's added on some certain momentous the happy healthy the healthy right like i for me right the purpose right, like my purpose is to use my gift, right, to help inspire others. Inspire others. Right, because Momentous is an offshoot of that, right? And like I'm really passionate about health and wellness and just happens to be there. Like when I was 19, I wasn't like, I'm going to make people happy and healthy.

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Purpose matters to you. And when I say, when I give you this kind of like simple idea, what is a purpose mindset? A purpose mindset is, oh man, I was going to say doing things with a purpose. But being intentional in how you approach the things that you do in your life. That's right. And your purpose mindset, can you call up a story when you had a great purpose mindset or maybe it was today

or when you were really off? When I was really off, I had a last year, had a really hard time with my board of directors. I mean, it was not a pretty moment. And it was, we didn't get along with what we were going to do and why we were going to do it. And there was a little bit there that I lost my purpose. I'm like, why am I doing what I'm doing? And I got really performance-mindsetted, right? And versus the impact that I could have.

And that this job didn't define me, this company didn't define me, and all I could do is show up and work my butt off and be positive and make a positive impact around where I am. So, like, realistically, like, I started, like, going down this hard, like, I'm a performer like i like performance and this company is my identity oh so you didn't get all the lessons you needed no from hip surgery yeah right like you get jabbed and you get jabbed and you get jabbed but like again like i like it was one of those things was like it like it was short-lived very short-lived there was like a two-week period of like a eight-month ordeal that this was and i

was like hostile hostile relationship just a hostile relationship board just not aligned i mean we maybe we get in the history of of momentous and how i how momentous came to be you know under my business and but it was just like this really, like, I wanted to do it better than it's ever been done before. Right. And Pete Carroll quote or saying, and I fundamentally. It's so inspiring. It is so inspiring. Like he, when the first time he said it to me, he goes, Mike, look,

what do you say? Let's try to do this better than it's ever been done before. I was like, you sound just like what's in my head. Like that idea, just to put it in that phrase though. And that was his challenge to me or his invitation to me. Not a challenge. It was an invitation. Let's try to do culture. Let's try to do the performance mindset piece.

Let's try to do this other mindset psychological part better than it's ever been done before. It was awesome. It is awesome. And you know, I just, before you go to the finisher story, I don't want to forget this is that you, you spoke to it earlier and this is something you would have accidentally learned from being in the culture with coach, which was one of the things that he was exceptional at was finding what makes somebody special and then celebrating that specialness. So not just like thinking it's cool and like talking amounts with other people about how do we help this person be special? No,

it was not that it was like, let's find what's already naturally special and let's shine that let's put that person in a position for that specialness to be consistent in how they do themselves and it's it it is um so powerful because it sees and rests on the idea that there's already something special inside you and this culture our relationship is meant to bring that forward yeah yes cool huh that is cool yeah so anyways uh go go back to like yeah so i mean i just went straight right performance right and it's like and i lost my way of like i never wanted to be a supplement company ce. That was never my dream, right? Like never, ever did I ever say this is what I want to do. And when we decided to go into this category,

it was like, if we're going to do it, we're going to do it better than it's ever going to be done before. Like that is an exact quote that my co-founder and I had a conversation with because we can, because the industry deserves better. And we got at loggerheads of like, no, this is the way it's always been done. Let's do it this way. I was like, if you want to do it that way, I'm out of here. Spray some, spray some vitamins on some, some whatever. Let's put it in a capsule. And it just was not like, not what I wanted to do and not what I was passionate about. But then it got, I got really like, you know, there was that two week time. It was like all performance for me.

Right. And then it, then to go to the other one, like my purpose driven is like, then it, then it had this like switch of like, no, I am here for a reason and I'm on purpose and here's why I'm on purpose. And here's how I'm going to go. I think it's cool to solve that problem. you can toggle between the two right like only one anything that's one dimensional is probably not beautiful no and so only performance based but lacking purpose right you gotta have both it's with the both makes it creates such big impact if you're

like in the world like if you can have performance and purpose it drives impact so in this moment right now in the conversation that we're having are you purpose do you have a purpose mindset or do you have a performance very purpose mindset and if i was inside of or right behind your eyes or right behind you know your heart what would what would I know is happening that you're anchored to purpose, a purpose mindset? Because how I'm thinking about attacking problems in business and in my personal life is all around driving change and impact and the performance mindset would be right is what are my numbers how do i think about a transaction right all of that and i do like it it kind of goes like this right for me because you got to have both of them and what i've learned is the performance mindset allows you to drive bigger purpose right like it magnifies your purpose and

so you know when i think about you know my company three and a half years ago like super small and you can have an impact but my company today might because of the purpose the impact that we can generate is so much bigger like the sphere of influence and so it's like this nice weave of like pete carroll was purpose-driven and performance-driven at the same exact time or relatively like right like our goal was to right win the rose bowl every single year but there was more behind that and there was purpose to everything that he did and so i anyways it's like this interesting balance and interesting balance and it's it's it is a balance like because if you're all purpose right a lot of things fade and flutter because there's no performance and

performance can anyways i don't know it's i've never thought of it like that but it is very much those so the dance there's two different distinct mindsets yeah yeah it's awesome i love how you articulate it all right let's let's get into i at one point did want to build a supplement company because yeah uh well for a couple reasons one is it's a little bit like building a spa. I think this is maybe romantic. I'm sure it's not that. And I can't remember where I learned this from, but when you go to a spa, like everyone's really happy to be there. It's like a little bit of a treat, you know, like people are coming in for something that is rejuvenating and wonderful and they leave feeling even better, you know? And like, there's just a, there's a vibe there that i was like yeah i want to build something along those lines yeah you know and then i don't even know how supplementation

came in other than like i wanted to build a psychobiotic okay like a gut brain yeah um connective tissue i think we've talked about this yes yeah and um so when i saw what you were doing and um kelly um introduced to me what you know and it just reminded me i already knew it but it was like check out take a deeper dive and i go oh he's going after senior single high quality supplements which i love i know you got a multi that came on just recently yeah no we've had a multi for a long time i missed that i maybe i chose to miss that because like i fell in love with like like high quality single grade or like high quality single kind of ingredient ingredients that were beyond question about their quality because you have two of the highest certifications

at least that i know of yeah um for quality right yeah nsf and what's the other one inform sport which basically means in my world in your world former world is like if we say it's in it it's in it yeah there's no other junk in there like you can trust that on the conveyor belt on the it is the right thing so you're not gonna get popped for drugs we are not the reason yeah yeah so that's what i loved what you're doing high quality yeah you know stuff and so can you talk a little bit more about like um what you're what you're trying to get after now and and in complete transparency i love so much what you're doing our friendship like like we're trying to figure out a right partnership to support each other's business 100 yeah so um anyways yeah i think if i take a step back you

know i said this earlier but like i never wanted to be a couple supplement company ceo that was never my dream um and i actually fought it for a really long time and why because what i saw in the industry was not who i thought i was right and I saw an industry that didn't have a lot of trust and transparency. I saw an industry that had a lot of confusion in it. And I saw an industry that just had a lot of players that I'm like, wait, this is for health and wellness? And what are we doing? And why are we doing it?

And this is coming from somebody who's used supplements and nutrition their entire life essentially right million dollars would be my estimate of how much money has been spent on me if you classify gatorade in that category um and it is like i just fundamentally think the category is pretty broken because of trust and transparency fruit toast sugar yeah or syrup is a supplement i mean gatorade originally was right electrolyte drink back in the day yeah um when you think about it but yes now it didn't taste good it didn't taste good so they sweetened it up yeah why not um so fundamentally i think the category is pretty broken right and it's broken because of trust and transparency and i think there's a lack of clarity. Right. And that's kind of your point is like, there are so many proprietary blends.

There are so many, you know, this does that or this. And it's like, I just, what I saw as a elite athlete was everything you did was purposeful. Right. And the support staff you had around you, it wasn't like, we're just gonna do some back squat steak because we feel like it right or you're just gonna eat this because you maybe because you can right it was like no we're gonna do x y and z and like 32 grams of this and like yeah and here's the back squat rack that we are buying because it's the best and there so and it wasn't you're gonna do everything you're gonna do the things that drive the biggest impact for you right and address your limitations

um to build the foundation so it wasn't like one size fits all and then it was all around quality right there was by the way are you still back sweating what sometimes are you don't tell people i know i'm not loading bar anymore like i'm a meathead at my cold um okay sorry total total random tangent yes i love to lift weights yes um and it just anyways so the category as a whole and as we went into it and and the business that I founded in 2018 was a spin out from biotech and we were working in pro and college sports and we got partially funded by the department of defense, but it was a consumer biotech, really niche product. And we knew really niche, niche product.

And we knew we needed to expand. Right. And it was just like, I did not want to go on supplements. It did not feel good. Did not feel right to me. Talk about that supplement. No supplements in general. No, no. Like your niche product. Oh, it's called PR lotion.

And we've got, you know, nine clinical studies behind it. You know, we've worked with two of the France champs, marathon world record holders, top NFL teams, all of this. And it basically helps reduce acid in the muscle. And came out of biotech is a cream. You put it on, it's really, really innovative, but it turns out that unless you're going really, really hard or really, really long, it doesn't have that big of an impact. And, you know, we had a really awesome run at it and it's still around and it still sits in its little corner and it's what made us and it's what really made us very different and it's what inspired me that

we can do the supplement industry better than it's ever been done before if we don't think of ourselves as a supplement company if we think of ourselves as a performance company as a performance for life company how how would we if we were to create this again do it differently who would we work with how do we work with them what would be the clinical research we would do and also do we believe that there needs to be a category of 400 products or do we think there needs to be 30 products how many do you have about 30 30 right yeah and i think part of the challenge with the category is it's this every single day the aperture widens. There's something new, some new product,

some new this, some new that, some new mushroom or whatever it may be. And that doesn't help the consumer. This category that I play in is $200 billion globally, massive. You would think we have the healthiest population in the world. Right? The challenge is we don't, right? The challenge is what we're doing is not working. And it's because, right, the shotgun approach to health or supplements doesn't work, right?

Just like the shotgun approach to, hey, I'm going gonna go train in the nfl like you don't do everything you do the things that matter to be great in the nfl you do that like so so you're right on the money with like you're taking a the lenses through which sports science yes looks at developing and helping develop an athlete 100 listen i feel like we could go on and on and on it is time for you and I to go get some dinner. Yep. Yep. And so thank you.

Thank you for like bringing emotion into this, some systems thinking, you know, a bit of a revision about how you came to be so successful in your life. Attitude and effort. Yeah. Thanks for bringing your dad, you know. Thanks for having him.

Yeah, it was great. And also earnestly, thank you for building a product stack that I trust and use and enjoy. And there's just something about knowing that you're building it. Then there's something knowing about you and your team are not faking the funk here, that you're really trying to do something meaningful for people that has real impact health and happiness yeah happiness and health i don't know if i got the order right and so um thank you for making a difference there's

you know obviously got a huge community of people that believe in what you're doing yeah thank you and um and thank you for you know exploring a partnership formally that something we can do for our community heck yeah and so um i'm stoked on the whole thing man heck yeah thank you that's awesome yeah uh thank you for the partnership and you know for that uh i think we'll give the listener something special after this podcast um we talked a little bit about sleep so what we'll do is we'll uh give all the we have a five days of sleep um our sleep pack that we can give and then 25 off yeah that's it on yeah wait hold on it's a sleep pack because i'm clearly blowing it with no yeah i mean you're you're taking sleep pack it sounds like but you're not taking elite sleep oh you're gonna do the sleep pack we're

gonna do sleep a little bit you get five we'll do five of those this is your travel go-to it's my every night go-to every night go-to awesome and and 25 and 25 off also this for this episode dude i love it thank you for that um i know your website because i'm on it a lot live momentous.com and then we'll just make the do the do what always do, livemomentous.com slash findingmastery. Yep. And then, do you have like a code or something that people can put in? It should be your normal code, findingmastery. Findingmastery is our normal code.

Yeah. We do. And I'm sure it will auto-populate all of that. Yes. Somebody smarter than me and you figured out how to do technology. Yes. Thank you for that. Yeah.

Thank you for that. All right. So we're going to go get some dinner. Yeah, let's do it. Amazing. All right. So we're going to go to some dinner. Yeah, let's do it. Amazing. All right. All right. Thank you so much for diving into another episode of Finding Mastery with us.

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