Finding Mastery with Dr. Michael Gervais - The Psychology Of Winning The Super Bowl | Seattle Seahawks Coach Mike Macdonald

Episode Date: June 17, 2026

What does it take to build a team that trusts each other enough to go through hard things together... not around them?Mike Macdonald is the head coach of the Seattle Seahawks and the youngest head coach in modern NFL history to win a Super Bowl. His path is an unusual one. He grew up with almost no family pipeline into football, a baseball kid in Georgia who fell in love with the strategy of the game watching his dad’s home video of his eighth-grade football games. When an injury ended his playing days in high school, he didn’t walk away. He filmed practice, coached the linebackers his senior year, and discovered the itch that would carry him from the pressure cooker of big-time college football at Georgia to the Baltimore Ravens, and eventually to Seattle.At the center of how he leads is a principle his team lives by: through, not around. Earn what you achieve. No excuses. Work the problem together, and in a way that’s matter of fact rather than personal. Mike tells the story of the biggest adversity of his NFL career, a blown multiple-score lead as Baltimore’s new defensive coordinator, and the decision that followed: no blame game, name himself the common denominator, and square up with the problem alongside his players. When the players felt the coaches were in the fight with them, the buy-in came, and the defense turned.This conversation is also a rare one for Finding Mastery: Dr. Michael Gervais has spent the past year working alongside Coach Mike and the Seahawks, and that shared history opens avenues for discussion most interviews never reach. They dig into why confidence and self-efficacy are trainable skills, even for a Super Bowl winning head coach, why clarity is one of the deepest forms of respect a leader can offer, and the Harvard baseball dream a young Coach Mike let slip because, in his words, he played it too safe. Mike Gervais opens up about recognizing that same story in his own life... the fear of looking like you don’t have what it takes. They close with imposter syndrome on the way to a Super Bowl, a graduation photo full of badges, and what it means to hand the trophy back to the team.In this conversation, we explore:Why “through, not around” is the foundation of the Seahawks’ cultureHow confidence and self-efficacy become trainable skillsWhy clarity from leadership is one of the deepest forms of trustHow taking responsibility in front of the room earns buy-inWhy players always know which leaders are authenticHow fear of failure quietly keeps us playing it safeWhat imposter syndrome looks like on the way to a Super BowlIf you’ve ever been tempted to go around a hard conversation, a hard problem, or a hard moment, this conversation offers a way to go through it... together.Links & ResourcesSubscribe to our Youtube Channel for more conversations at the intersection of high performance, leadership, and wellbeing: https://www.youtube.com/c/FindingMasteryGet exclusive discounts and support our amazing sponsors!Go to: https://findingmastery.com/sponsors/Subscribe to the Finding Mastery newsletter for weekly high performance insights: https://www.findingmastery.com/newsletterDownload Dr. Mike’s Morning Mindset Routine: findingmastery.com/morningmindsetFollow on YouTube, Instagram, LinkedIn, and XSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Players know. Well, what do they know? Well, they know who's full of shit. They know who's a good coach. They know who the best players are. They know what the organization is like. They just know. So if you go around trying to fool them, like shame on you, you have no idea.

Welcome back. Or welcome to the Finding Mastery podcast where we dive into the minds of the world's greatest thinkers and doers. A high-performance psychologist named Michael Treveig. Who head coach Mike McDonald and former head coach Pete Carroll brought into work with the Seahawks. Famous for his work with Felix Baumgartner when he jumped. out of space in the Stratos project. Olympic athletes depend on something more than just training and talent. They have to stay mentally tough.

Today's guest is Mike McDonald, head coach of the Seattle Seahawks and the youngest head coach in modern NFL history to win a Super Bowl. I'm not like coming to the table saying, hey, look, this is the Seahawk way of doing it. Go to page 43. It's like, no, I'm kind of new to this thing too, and we're going to apply our principles,

but we're all growing through this thing together. We explore one of the core principles shaping his team, through not around. When the players felt that the coaches were in the fight with them and they said, hey, look, these are the things that we need to do a better job of to prepare you guys to go play mentally, physically, tactically, all those things. You know, we started to feel that buy-in from the players and our process started to improve.

With that, let's jump into this week's conversation with my colleague, friend, and Super Bowl-winning head coach, Mike McDonald. Coach, I have had the privilege to get to know you. And the community probably doesn't know the way that we know each other other than you're the head coach of the Seattle Seahawks. And I've been fortunate to work with you, you know, the last year. And so maybe just in your memory, like maybe bring the listener up to speed on how we met and what kind of what started that. Yeah, it's funny, the things you don't know, you don't know, but having an idea of what we wanted to go from year one to year two. And, you know,

John Schneider and I had some several conversations, and then from your relationship with him going back several years, we met up with you and Steve Houshka. And it just became really clear that you had a great, like a really cool perspective of something to offer that maybe I didn't know that I needed. And kind of just hit it off. Like it felt like from our first conversations, you know, not to blow smoke or anything, but like it felt we felt too really trustworthy. And we had a lot of productive conversations. and then it just hit the ground running. I felt like we just really got off to a strong start

and we've just kind of been powering through ever since. Yeah, I didn't actually know that part of it, that you don't know what you don't know, which is like actually was an asset for you. And so what I remember about our first conversation is like, oh, okay, well, he works really fast. He asks really thoughtful questions. Okay, plus, plus.

He's like demonstrating that he's a great learner. And come to find out, yes, on all of those, but one of your superpowers is that you really want to understand something and then put it into action. Well, in our first conversation with John, I'm feeling you've asked this question before, but the, hey, if, you know, what percentage would you attribute your team's performance to like mental skills or just mental aptitude? And, you know, we always threw out like a pretty big number. And you're like, well, if that's actually, if you actually believe that, well, we need to put some energy behind this. Right.

And then the things that you were talking about, I was like, man, the vision I think that, very similar, I think John and I's initial conversations with Jody about, like, where we wanted to take the team. It had the same feeling of like, oh, our vision for where we want to take our football team. And, like, kind of the thing, it felt like the things that you could one add to it, but also help us get there and things I felt like you thought were important. Like you felt that alignment. And so that was exciting. Yeah, I think that the idea that, hold on, and for clarity, John Schneider, the general manager, the Seattle Seahawks, Mike McDonnell, head coach of Seattle Seahawks, and Jody Allen, the owner. All right, so, you know what's cool? Is like when you meet somebody and there's an alignment, that's what we're talking about, is there was like a synergy.

And you were interviewing me, I was interviewing you. there was like there's it was just honest like can can we vibe can we create something special together is what it felt like the conversation was yeah and it was cool um obviously i think we did yeah yeah how about that year it was a whirlwind but it wasn't it didn't it did it just it was this combination of like it was fast but it didn't drag on you know it was really exciting i think you know we We've had some conversations the last couple days with Housh, but there's an energy behind it. From my perspective, it was these are the things that I kind of felt like in my heart deep down that maybe I had a hard time bringing out in an organized way and in a clear way and then a tactful way to communicate to people.

And then, you know, to be coached and to be pushed and to get uncomfortable with some things. But ultimately, all through the lens of trying to create, you know, the vision of, of, we want to become so that was fun. Yeah, I think for folks that are in the business world, most of, most of the best practices is like they, they bring in a consultant or a firm or something to help establish the culture that they want to have. And it's culture by committee. So there's five smart people on the executive team and there's a couple consultants that come in and ask really good questions and kind of get to like first principles of how they want their culture to operate. But like, let's say you and I are on that executive team and there's somebody

coming in and and you say, I think it should be about honesty. And I go, that, that's good. But what about like courage? Courage is honest. And you're like, yeah, yeah, that's good. Courage. And then somebody else says, well, what about curiosity?

You've got to be curious to be courage and to be honest. Like, why don't we go curious? And then before you know it, they're all good words. It just kind of gets muddled by like a group think and like a desire to want to be aligned. But no one really sees themselves. in those first principles. The work that you did was these first principles were in your heart, you went through a process to get them as clear as you possibly could, and then shared them enthusiastically in a very coherent way with the organization. Well, one of the places where I felt

like I needed to grow from year one to year two was just presentation skills, confidence in front of the group, taking more of an ownership behind the team. There's a lot of room from growth that felt, you know, but the thing that actually felt that helped me the most was I actually believed what I was saying, you know, and why, you know, I believed the things the first year. Like a lot of the stuff that we were still, that we talked about, you know, that we landed on were what we talked about in year one, but just having a better understanding about where that came from, how to put energy behind it, you know, how to, how to communicate it clear. Like, that was the confidence I had coming back to the team of saying, oh, like, now I, now I can really share

this with you in a way where I feel like you're going to understand and now we can we can get some energy behind this thing. Yeah, I think you know the idea of success leaves clues? You just dropped a massive one. It's not the idea in it of itself that other organizations ought to adopt if they want to be a high performing organization. It's the idea that what you were saying you were completely aligned with. That, to get down into the granular level of the stories, the words, the words, the world.

words, the principles that mattered most to you, and so you could walk freely into any environment and be about it. That's like the thing that often gets missed in high-speed corporate environments that is honest here at the Seoxys. Great job being able to do that. That is not easy to do. And I think people would be surprised to hear you say, yeah, confidence was something that I wanted to work on.

You are the head coach of the Super Bowl winning team, and you're like, yeah, confidence is like a skill. Yeah. That's really cool. Well, that was something that I, that we had a lot of conversations on of like, hey, well, what kind of, you want a confident football team. And that was something where I think, I think you use the term self-efficacy that, that like I probably have more, more of naturally. And so having awareness of that. But then how, you know, how do you train a team to communicate and to feel and to have confidence when you yourself are also working on that, you know, that's, it kind of doesn't align. line initially. So like that was something that's been on my mind about the type of team we

want to have all the time and the feeling we want to have when we go play the game. And and that, but that, that triggered a lot of our, that triggers a lot of our language and like how we say we want to do business every day. Because I do have that in mind, you know, that I, of how we want the team to act rather than taking on my natural disposition, you know. So that's right. So it's been fun. But people are feeding off of you because you hold so much space leaders hold a lot of space in organizations. And so people are feeding off you. They're watching you.

I've learned that. They're watching. And they're watching what you say, what you don't say. More importantly, they're watching how you act. And they're watching everyone in a leadership position about how they act under stress. Are they similar enough under stress to be trustworthy? You know, it's easy to be cool over a glass of wine or a cup of tea. It's easy, right?

amongst friends, it's fine. But then when there's real consequences and there's like things not going right, are you still in there? Or have you been tricking me? Yeah. So maybe let me just take a moment for the viewer to explain self-efficacy.

Efficacy means power. Self-efficacy is like, I feel like when I apply myself, like I feel like I can make a difference. Like I've got something behind the way that I work that can be impactful. That's what self-efficacy is. And then self-confidence is like, I think I can do that thing.

I'm not totally sure, but I think I can go do that thing. You put those two together. You got something. And those are both trainable skills. Yeah, which has been fun. It's fun. It's been fun. All right, let's switch gears slightly and go to your origin story.

It matters to everybody, their origin story. But yours is really clear. Well, one thing that makes me a little unique to most coaches is like, I have no connection to football. My dad played like sprint football at West Point, but that pretty much ends there. So I have two older sisters who are, I'm on record,

but they're my heroes. I looked up to them big time and grew up with them, like kicking soccer balls at my face, you know, when I was a baby and slinging me around on sleds, you know, in the snow. We lived in Boston. But just always looked up to him big time.

Just matter of fact, like an hour ago, I just went on a walk and was talking to Maggie for, you know, for a long time, getting caught up. And when we lived in Georgia, you know, I grew up playing baseball and, you know, I didn't pick up football until, you know, organizationally, like officially until like middle school. I got started late. I was always a baseball player. Play pickup games and stuff like that. But my dad would film, you know, this is, I'm young, but I'm not that young.

My dad had like this giant camera, you know, the old, like, I don't even know what they're called anymore. What else things call? VHS, big beta tape. It was like, it was like pre-beta tape. Yeah. like full handheld camera that he'd film Christmas and stuff. But he would film my football games when I started in eighth grade. And so it was always a cool thing that we got to do to go back and rewatch the tape.

And he still critiques me this day. But he'll coach me up and we watch it. And I just naturally try to find tendencies of what's going on and report back to my teammates and stuff like that. And so throughout high school, that was always interested part of like the game to me. It was the strategy behind it. And I jot down, like, instead of having a doodle on my notepad, it would be just like football plays. You know, one time I actually, I thought I invented the play, like power,

which is like the first play every team installs for like the history of football. I thought I invented it one time and brought it to my high school coach. I was like, have we ever thought about like pulling the guard, you know? I think it would be better. And he's looking at me like, yeah, dummy. Like I think we've thought about that. But so it's just, yeah. I had this natural interest into it, and I was never like the greatest athlete.

So like trying to find that like extra guess of like where the play was going to go is always interesting. How much of this was your connection with your dad because you had this unique moment to watch film? With my son, I'll say, hey, their coach films, practices games, and I'll say, do you want to watch some of it? No, dad, I'm good. He has zero interest. I'm like, damn. He could never get me to take extra batting practice, but like football for some reason, I actually like enjoyed watching. watching those tapes.

Like we'd go right home and watch it. And how would he design those coaching sessions? He was actually like, he was more complimentary, like supportive in football. Now that I've never really thought of it through this lens now. Then like baseball was always like, ah, you know, why did you take that? It always felt like it was a, like I was always on defense, you know. But in football, it felt like really supportive. And you could feel like the pride of like,

Me making a play or running for a few yards or whatever. And so that was a cool connection that we had. Did he have more personal connection to baseball himself or to football? Well, he played both, but he played football in college. He played football at West Point on their lightweight team. So he's a little bit more gentle or tender or supportive in coaching football? Yeah, maybe, yeah, maybe. So you felt more invested, less defensive?

Less defensive for sure. it might be because I took it up later and maybe he sensed something that that's what I needed, you know, where baseball I always played it like super competitively and, you know, in that area of the country like baseball was king and like some of the top programs and

top teams are out of that area. Like it was it was some high, like I had a lot of friends that played high level baseball. I wasn't one of them but I had friends that did it and so anyways when I started playing in high school I ended up getting injured. I told people I retired in high school, you know, but I ended up coaching my senior year.

I'd, like, I had to be around the team, and so I'd film practice, and I'd coach the linebackers, and I just wanted to be around the game. You said I had to. That's like you desperately needed to be a part of something, or you had to because it was part of the class. No, like, I wanted to be a part. Like, I felt like I was a, like, I was like the captain of the team, you know, and I can't, like, can't leave the boys out to dry, you know?

So you got to, I want to be a part of it. And the strategy part of the component, too, was still like I could be a part of that as well. So that's where the itch started to happen. Bodymaster is brought to you by Momentus Fiber Plus. Here's a stat that surprised me when I first came across it. Nearly 95% of us are not getting enough fiber. And the thing is, most people think that they are. That used to be me.

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competitor. So join 2.7 million small businesses already using LinkedIn to hire. Host your job for free at LinkedIn.com slash mastery. Terms and conditions apply. Again, that's LinkedIn.com slash mastery to post your job for free. You know what I like about that story is that you took an adversity and whatever your makeup is

is that you didn't, this was not a demonstration of resilience. Resilience is you got knocked back and you figured out how to put your foot in the ground and keep fighting for it. That's not what this is. Right. This is like, oh, of course you don't want to be hurt, right?

Of course, you wanted to play. But it sounds like, and how I know you, is like, okay, well, this is the scenario. So how do we create a better option out of the scenario? Yeah, that's right. Well, let me go do this film stuff. Let me think about strategy. So you're really what we would call psychologically agile. You look at the facts.

You adjust accordingly to keep moving forward in a way that is, I don't know, optimized or desirable or interesting. Yeah, sure. Yeah. So that's a core capability that you had even at a young age. Let me go back. One more turn here. When your dad was coaching you, what stands out more than anything else? Something he said, something he didn't say that was an indelible moment for you.

In football? Or life, if you want to take it there. To my dad, there's like a right and a wrong way all the time. You know, it's very important. Like order is important. things aren't as gray to him, you know, in really any situation. Like there's a right way to go about things. There's not a right way to go about things.

Right way to treat people, wrong way to treat people. It doesn't leave like the biggest space for innovation and creativity, but it also, like it shows in points of clarity, you know, in some of the situations I'm sure that we have in here. And that's probably how I, that's had an effect on me. Having known you, I know that you're saying that has an effect on me. So I'm assuming that's the case. Yeah, that's good. Okay. And what do you think that effect is? What is the upside downside?

Well, I do, I really feel like it's really, it's imperative that we have clarity here. You know, if I'm a player and you're not, and it's not incredibly clear to me, like, what's the expectation on really just a day-to-day basis? Like, I have a hard time, I would have a hard time operating the way that we expect you to operate on and off the field and to have success because it's like, well, do you want me to go here? going to go there, you know. Okay. So how do you show, what are the mechanisms you and the coaches here use to show somebody with great clarity what good is or what great is? Well, it's, it's, I feel like we try to constantly reinforce it. And it starts with our language about like how we want to play the game. And, um, but there's this, it's just a constant

reinforcement of, of, um, of how we want to play. What makes a Seahawk. Um, and then, you know, systematically with our coaches, it's, you know, we put a, we take a lot of pride in, like, doing a lot of the thinking for our players

and working through those, like these complex, these more complex, like football systems and whittling it down to, you know, a directive where a player can now go, execute at a high level, and it's going to work for them.

You know, that's, that's, there's, there's some magic behind that, you know, but if I, if I didn't do my homework as a coach,

or I, um, and I don't, really have a great way to explain it. I'm not coaching it in this kind of, this, this, this, this, like, this like elegant simplicity behind, behind, like, what we're asking to do. And the systems aren't really well oiled out. Well, it's kind of shame on us at that point, you know, like, I feel like we're doing it. We'd be doing our players a disservice. I love that you said, elegant simplicity. This is where I was going to go. And my question was,

walk through the agitating state to get to elegant simplicity. There's an agitation, a fog, there's like a haze, you know, and like really a prickly state to be able to work through to get to the elegance of anything. Yeah. So uniquely, can you just illuminate the way that you want something to be great, right? You are trying to figure out a complex scenario with a complex set of personalities and skill sets on a team. and you're trying to create something that is simple and elegant. So that's the desired outcome. How do you work through when it's hard and it's not clear and it doesn't just snap into place?

And somebody else goes, yeah, but. I think we put a lot of focus on understanding like go a level deeper. You know, so like what are what are the like mechanisms that make like the task go? you know so like if we're if we're game playing for an offense for instance like what at a baseline what's what's their operation like you know where is it rooted in you know can we get to the nuts and bolt to this thing and then you know what's the what's the technique that we're trying well where does that come from can we can we kind of kind of inception can we go to like the next layer of like the dream state to kind of unlock you know some some ideas about

well maybe if maybe if we maybe if we just kind of move that lever a little bit maybe well that maybe what's the effect as we kind of work our way back up towards the problem but you got to be comfortable in that like you get what's so hard about that for you I enjoy that I enjoy that yeah I was gonna say I so I want to get to the hard part like like that you're a systems thinker you like to think first principles you like to understand kind of the mechanics of things and tinkering and try to figure it out so you that you can create something sweet yeah there's friction when we don't like we like if someone we're working with doesn't think that way to me it's like it's like

like I see that as taking the easy way out sometimes, you know, where that's not really like a Seahawk way of operating. We're like, well, why don't we just go, just tell them to do whatever. It's like, well, not only is that not probably the best way to do it, but it's also you're not helping our player the bat. Like, are you doing everything you can? I mean, we're here to serve the players. There's a, there's an incongruency there for like what our actual role is, you know?

And that, that's, that creates friction. sometimes, you know, but that's good. You know, we've got to work through that stuff. And how do you do it when somebody, when a teammate looks like or feels like they're not pulling their weight or they're just not wanting to go explore something because they're tired, you know, they got a lot on their plate. And here you are thinking about this like thing. And they're like, look, I got, I got another 80 hours of work to do by tomorrow.

You know, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, we haven't, we haven't had a lot of experiences where I felt like someone just like is just lazy and, you know, they don't want to do a good job or whatever. Like, and that, that, it speaks to John and the folks that, like, bring people into our organization who we've hired. But what the way we communicate with our, with our people is, hey, if our inputs are right and our, in our spirit is in the right place, our intentions are in the right place, but we're working together, you know, so like, we're going to, we're going to, like,

do you like to say, we're going to work this problem together and see if we can kind of come to a better way. So, and this happens a lot on offense where I'm not, I'm not like an expert on offensive of football, but I can understand systems and hear how we're coaching it. And, you know, you kind of look at it through a different lens. So there's a lot of times where we're having conversations, okay, well, what are we, what are we, what are we expecting from him here? And where is that rule coming from?

Okay, that makes sense. Okay, that's cool. Okay, well, let's, we're on the right page here. It feels like it. Let's just, let's keep going on the right path down this path with the player and let's see if we get a different result. Maybe we're just, you know, maybe we got some different results that we didn't like, but we like our process.

sometimes it says, hey, like our intention is the right spot, but I just feel like we could make this simpler for the guy. Like, I'm not, I'm not, what we're seeing on tape is not decisive enough for like, for our style. I feel like what he's, it's not clear what we're asking to do. Maybe let's rethink about what we want to say here or how we're coaching it, you know, like that's the approach. You've got a first principle called through not around. And it's one of the core tenets of your cultural, um, model. Can you illuminate through a story or something that is some, a moment in time that you remember,

maybe it was this season that it was a through not around moment? Yeah. Thru not around is is how we want. It's like, look, we're going to earn what we, what we achieve. You know, we're not going to create excuses. We're going to communicate in a way where it's very matter of fact when we're like solving problems. So it's like I'm taking the way I'm not even thinking about how I feel in this moment. All we're doing is just working the problem together so we can, it's better for us.

It's not a, the personal thing is just kind of out of it. Systematically too, it's, hey, you know, we want to be a violent team and a physical team. So it kind of, it's got its roots all over all through our program. But probably the biggest part, biggest form of adversity I've had in the NFL is when I became a coordinator in Baltimore. And, you know, and again, you're trying your best about building a team. And, you know, we focused a lot on scheme that year, trying to get our system put in and making sure we had all the calls. And we started out playing pretty decent defense. And so we got the second week of the year and we played the Dolphins and they were rolling.

And we played well like the first three quarters. And we had like a multiple score lead. I think we were up like three or four touchdowns. And then it was just just, just bombs in the fourth quarter. If you let Tyree kill wide open on a nine ball Nobody within 30 yards of the guy like shame on the coach Like that is that's a reflection of us and I think the feeling that I had from our team in that moment Did you lose this game? We ended up losing the game by three touchdowns

We were up three touchdowns I think in the fourth quarter It's really hard to come back in the NFL from three touchdowns Yeah, yeah It can happen that's really that's like in the Super Bowl they're like well why we know didn't it feel great that you had the game locked up in the fourth? I'm like bowl crap. I've lived that. We're going to play through the echo of the last whistle until this thing's over with.

So it's a great lesson there. In that intensity, the echo of the last whistle, you earn that commitment through being burned in the past from going through a... Well, I think the moral... And the other part of the story was the feeling I had of our team,

we lacked confidence. You know, the feeling that I want for our team here in Seattle wasn't mirrored from our unit at Baltimore at that point in the year. And so instead of pointing fingers, it just felt like, man, if we came in here and we start playing the blame game,

not only is that, not the right thing to do, but I don't think it isn't the right thing to do like tactically because I think, I think I'm really the root here. Like, I'm the kind of the common denominator. And,

in Baltimore. In Baltimore. So did people, did people square up with you and say, hey, listen. No, I felt like, I felt like it was me and then as a reflection of me,

like how we did business a little bit on defense and didn't feel true to like how we really wanted to be. And so it didn't feel real at that point. So I said, well, hey, we got to square up with this thing and go through this problem, you know, together. And I think one thing that happened was is when the players felt that the coaches were in the fight with them and then say, hey, look, these are the things that we need to do a better job of to prepare you guys to go play mentally, physically, tactically, all those.

things, we felt, I start, you know, we started to feel that buy-in from the players in our, and our process started to improve. And, you know, we didn't get it fixed overnight, but like you did feel like we started to, you know, to make a move. Ultimately, you know, we got Roquan that year. We ended up playing great defense. But for a minute there, you know, it was hairy. And, but if we didn't have that mentality, I don't know if we would have, you know, seeing those like marginal gains, you know, kind of on the rebound there. It's easy to say through not around when you hold all of the power, when you're the boss. And like, we're going to go through it together.

And when somebody else is like, I don't know, they made a mistake or they made a weird call. And they're feeling vulnerable in that situation. How do you demonstrate the required unity that you're in it with them? Do you have any memory of times when people have brought it? straight to you and they've said okay through not around yeah coach can we sit down yeah there's um there's been some since you have to have those quite a bit in in in my role here and i actually i tell my i'll tell myself like if it's a conversation that i don't want to have before i'll say like hey dude turn i'll tell myself hey through not around you know like you got to put your money

where your mouth is on this but i also feel like it's the spirit in which you want to have those conversations. So it's not like you're just coming at someone with like a blunt instrument and just bang over the head. Boom. It's like there's a spirit behind what we're trying to. It's through the lens of like what's best for us, what's best for them. That makes it takes the edge off a little bit, you know. You did something. You set the scene with with you and me right away is that when we're going through your model and you're like, okay, there's something here through not around. Like this really matters to me that we're going to have honest conversations. We're going to work the problem. We're going to go through things. And then you pause and you said, and that means me too.

Like sometimes people got to come straight at me and say, listen, I need a through not around conversation. Yeah. And at that moment, I was like, oh, he wants to be coached too. He wants, he knows that he's part of the solution and part of the problem. And like, so you do something. Even that little gesture you did when we first started to know each other, you do something to let people know that this isn't through, not around just for you that is for all of us well i'm glad that that comes across that way i think i think it's one of those things where if that's really what you wanted to be about and you like what you said earlier in the conversation if you demonstrate that every day about how you want to do business that's that's probably where it's going to actually happen you know like people are

like you said people are watching the players are watching our coaches are our staff are watching I've fallen short on this, so plenty of times, but I think if they feel that that's genuinely how you want to operate, that's where you start to build that trust when it comes down to having those things, you know? Yeah, 100%. Cool. All right, let's go back to Georgia.

We're not done that. We've talked about Dad. We've talked about Maggie. Finding Mastery is brought to you by Sunlighten. I'm really excited about a new partner of ours. Something that I've come back to again and again is when I, I invest in recovery with the same intention that I bring to my work, everything gets better. My energy, my focus, my ability to show up fully for the people that I'm with and the work that

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So time to go to college. I ended up deciding to go to the University of Georgia. I wanted to play Ivy League Baseball for Harvard. This is another through not around. There you go. So I wanted to play Ivy League Baseball over Harvard. I think we're actually talking about this today. And life comes out you fast.

Hey, hey, buddy, you're not smart enough or athletic enough to play for these guys. and your SAT scores back that up and your 40 time backs it up as well. So you're not going to Harvard. Was this a big dream, big ambition? Yeah, yeah. You're kind of like you're kidding yourself. You know, like, could you put your chips on the line, so to speak? Like you made it, you declared this is your goal?

I think I played it too safe. That was a bummer. You know, it's like, I wouldn't say it's a regret because life happens for a reason. but that's something that I've given myself a tough time with over the years. Like, you didn't really go for it. You know, you didn't like put it on the line, put it out there, do the daily things that you need to be able to do. You know, do I think I could have played baseball there?

Yeah. Yeah, I think I had it in my body to get that done. And just didn't do it. Just didn't really go for it hard enough. How come? Probably fear of failure, honestly, yeah. Yeah. Open that up a little bit.

What were you really afraid? What does failure mean in that scenario? Well, at that part of my life, I hadn't had to work. I didn't really know what, like, hard work. I need to learn what, like, the hard work was. You know, so fast forward to, like, working at Cedar Shoals high school when I was in undergrad, you know, becoming a GA and a student assistant and, you know, working the hours that it takes and, like, and getting your butt kicked a little bit, like, you know, just not.

Not getting, you know, missing up an install or, you know, it's a big high-level football University of Georgia. Like when you mess up, it's a little pressure cooker over time. Like, you feel that as a GA and as a young coach. But like, but the work was there. Like, that's when I really understood, like, what hard work meant. And again, another that threw it on around. Like, that's a real thing, you know.

If you strained, if you worked really hard, if you applied yourself, and gave it everything that you had, what was at risk? Well, what I learned was that freed you up. You know, like, what freed you up? It freed you up to go for it. Yeah, but what you're saying is like you didn't really go for baseball for Harvard. Right. You said it, you tried a little bit.

Yeah. It was going to be a nice thing, but you didn't really go for it. Right. So I'm taking the opposite side. Like if you would have really gone for it, put it all there, put the chips, you know, on the line, so to speak. what was at risk? You said fear of failure, but I'm trying to understand what what were you really afraid of. I think I had a I think it's important for me to be viewed a certain way in terms of like a

stature, you know, so kind of it would have been a knock on like my like own identity that I saw myself. So it's sobering to see like, oh, you're like, not only did you not go for it, but your scores don't back it like you don't even, you lack the criteria too. It's not like you're, it's not like you were wronged. But you had a story. Well, I didn't really go for it. So, of course I wasn't.

If I would have applied myself, I could have. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, what you're describing, I hope the viewer really can hear this and watch this because this is what I believe is one of the greatest constrictors for a person's potential. Because I have so much regard and respect for the people who, put it on the line, that vulnerability to really go for something is so special because it could fall apart. And then you are left knowing that you did not have what it took to be able to

meet the demands of something or the opportunity. What I've learned is like, I don't really know what it means to not have what it takes. Like, I don't think that's really a thing. Because the process is going to like, unless there's like one finite thing, you work up to like just one thing, maybe it's like a gold medal, but like still, I mean, it's still, like winning a Super Bowl, for example, like so much has to happen right that is really out of your control, if you really want to be honest, to win a Super Bowl. But we put everything into it and like for, and a lot of other teams did too. But and we've had this conversation, but if we fell short, I'm pretty confident that I'd feel, I'd feel the same way about what we did and what our football team became.

Yeah, I would, I would too. So it's not like, it's not like we wouldn't have had what it takes. You know what I mean? This is you knowing, though, the value from the sting of not getting into Harvard. And the honest story is that I didn't really apply myself. Because I wanted to save my stature, my identity, a sense of self and the way people saw me. The reason I know this so well, Mike, is this was my story. And I think this is more people's story than you and I know.

This is my story. This is what happened to me for me. most of my life until I faced it. I was like, what am I doing? Yeah. Like, why am I playing this game? Like, what am I afraid of? I'm afraid of looking stupid.

I'm afraid of looking like, I don't have what it takes. But really, if you honestly work a process, you deeply invest in the inputs, you start to quickly learn, like, there's a lot that has to fall in a place to get these extraordinary outputs, like a Super Bowl. Yeah. It's liberating. Which part is liberating? Honest investment on inputs?

Yeah, like even pursuing coaching. I didn't think I was going to be a head coach in the NFL. But you didn't have that as a goal. No, but I just loved, I love coaching, you know, and I did want to be on a certain trajectory. Like, I didn't, you know, I did want to coach big time football, but I didn't really know what that looked. I didn't, there's a whole world out there.

I just wasn't really exposed to. I thought I knew what I wanted, you know, I just didn't really. But I just, but that wasn't part of like my daily inputs. I was like, oh, what if I wasn't worried about that. I was just, I was actually, like, to your point, I was working like an honest process behind it. And then I just, that, that let me, like, let go of where I was going to become a coach or, you're incredibly blessed, like that the Ravens call you one day and they want to interview. Like, you know, that doesn't happen to everybody. But what have that have happened if I didn't work the way that I did for the four years or five years that I was coaching private, you know, probably not, you know, so.

Football was kind of like that. Like I felt like I put my whole, I felt like I got the best version of myself with football. Like, and I'm okay with like how my career ended in football because. Playing as a player. Yeah, because I knew that like,

I knew how hard I worked as a football. Like that's when I learned, you know, different than baseball. And the relationship that your dad created that space to keep pushing, exploring and figuring out and unlocking as opposed to like you having to defend yourself

and the agitation to get coached. Yeah. That's something. Yeah. That's wild how it works out. Isn't that? Yeah. Do you, I don't know if you relate to this or not,

but like how can you speak to folks that might wrestle with imposter syndrome? And I'll paint a scenario. I don't know if you ever work through this yourself, but like I never played the game at a high level. You know, like, and here I am. If they only knew, like I could barely catch a ball on a 20-yard out route. Like you kidding. Or whatever.

Yeah. What position did you play? It doesn't matter, but liebacker and running back. Yeah, that's what I figured. You know, like, so like, do you, was that ever a thing? Oh, yeah. It was. I still feel that.

Yeah. Yeah. How do you work it? Another one of the conversations we had last year. I just, I don't know if it's completely impostures, but we had that kind of going into the Super Bowl of, I think our conversation was something along the lines of like, hey, we grew up, like, watching these, like, epic documentaries at, you know, and it's like, there's a Super Bowl when you grew up. and they got the commercials and it's the party and it's like it's this thing on a pedestal that like giants are part of you know the bill cowers of the world and you know um jimmy johnson's and like you know troy bret far like bret far running around with his helmet off like that's some like epic epic stuff you know and now there's movie you know there's all these and now here we are we are we sure we're part of that like that crew you know lucky yeah like what you know like are we do we really really really deserve to be part of this, like, history, you know, this, this kind of like class of what, you know, because that's the way I saw it when I was growing up, you know, from my, just as a kid and being a fan of the game.

I want to pause that because this is really important is that you had a, I don't call it, a nine-year-old or 10-year-old model of the Super Bowl. Yeah. And then, and it was good model. It was what a nine or 10-year-old would look at and be like, oh, look at these guys bigger than life. and the, you know, these are the heroes or these are like, these are absolute legends. And that's a good model for a nine or ten year old, the unsophisticated nine or ten year old. And then fast forward, you know, 20, 30 years. And then you're in the same kind of space.

You're like, oh, but I'm still operating from the old model. And you also know the adult truth, which is like, you poured everything into an honest process. Yeah. That was, that's like the, you know, the medicine. it was like, oh, what are you guys actually? What have you, what have you done? What have you proven over the course of our process or our year, year and a half or two years, how far you want to go back?

And there's like a lot of great evidence there, you know? And so if you, I had to like take myself out of that. I had to like look at it from a different angle, you know, like, oh, if I'm just third party observer coming from this different, like, wide. Lens like that's you guys you yeah you guys like you you should be here and and you should you should not because it was just You like we've like I've like our team from When I felt like we got to that point was like we should we should we should get to the point where we should we should we should expect to win every game we play If we play our best football you know because we've earned that right through you know who we are and what we've done and all that and so going back to that

thought process was really helpful, you know, going into the last few days before the game. People ask me all the time. They're like, like, what, I don't want to say it out loud, but I'm kind of struggling or I have struggled with imposter syndrome. Like, you know, and I stop right away and I kind of grin. I'm like, welcome to the club. Yeah. If you're trying to do something special, you don't know if you have what it takes. You also know that you got some breaks somewhere in there. And like you can't quite sort out why, but you don't. do need to honor all of that and at the same time pause and be like, wait, hold on. What are those things that I've honestly been investing in that I know is real? And am I okay with however this thing goes? I want it so bad, but am I okay no matter how this thing goes? And am I going to keep investing in an honest way on the inputs, the things I can control?

I think it's good for you. You do, yeah. It means you're out on the edge. You're on the edge. You're also like there's a humility to it. Like you realize it's not there's other forces at play. you know, it keeps you, like, I keeps you on the edge in terms of am I,

the sense of urgency and behind our process, you know, like am I really thorough in what we should be doing to get prepared, you know, get prepared. No, I think on the other hand, you need to be able to have those conversations yourself to get you ready to go execute and go, go perform. But I've always said, like, if you catch me walking around our building, like, ha, we got this.

We're going to whip ass this week. Like, just punch me in the, the face because like that's that's not that's not operate you know we will never say that you know as much as we're you know the points but all that stuff that's just that's not even in our stratosphere of like of how we think what's it like to um pick a handful of folks that you're like okay this athlete or these athletes they challenge me they're they're challenging and i'm not saying it's negative but like they're holding a standard they challenge me in whatever ways and maybe a couple athletes that are that you're like and tell them through the

of some stories where you're like, oh my God, like this, I've learned so much. It could be the same athlete. Yeah, if you guys come to mind. I mean, Coup on offense. Cooper Cup. He won just like the resume that is coming from. But again, his process, the level of like, we say shocking here, but like the level of detail that he has, of understanding of like how he operates, the details of.

not only his job, but how the whole offense works together. To me, it's inspiring. I'm not the one drawing up our offensive scheme, nor am I the one like coaching the X's and O's behind it. But to be on that, you really respect, like, that is what we owe our players all the time. He's a professional sportsman. Yeah, yeah, for sure.

Yeah. And the way he's with L.A. for a lot of years and he had a lot of success. And so he's seen a way of doing things for a while that has been really effective and he has his own thoughts on the process and what works and what doesn't and he's not afraid to have those conversations with you which I really I appreciate that you know I'm talking about as a team like as from the head coaching perspective process travel you know scheduling reps and practice tempo I mean all those different things he has a he has a different perspective on it coming from a completely different like worldview from where I came

from and again another through not around thing he's not afraid to like bring it up And I appreciate that. You know, that's a lot of fun. How much do you think that has to do with the way you say, hey, bring it to me? Like, and I mean that. Yeah, I think. And how much is it? Like, he's going to do it no matter what.

Well, with Coup, I'd probably do it no matter what. I mean, he talked to Clint, a good bit last year. He talked to Clint, our coordinator, a good bit last year. You know, he's got a lot of thoughts on it. But as he should, you know, I mean, again, he's earned, like, he's earned that from how he operates and his track record and we've asked and I've asked for it you know I've asked for and I think it doesn't take a lot of conversations from I believe at least like the players are going to they know and they communicate so if you're going to bring something up and then shoot

a guy down once he comes to you like that the word's going to get around quickly I think one of the strengths that we have here is I'm not a I'm not like coming to the table saying hey look this is the this is the Seahawk way of doing it this is go to page 43 you'll figure out what you do on July 3rd at 3 o'clock. This is the formula. It's like, no, I'm kind of new to this thing too, and we're going to apply our principles, but we're all going through this thing together. And so we are scrimaging ideas out, and we are kind of in search for like the best way of doing things for us.

And it turns out like it's not just me making those decisions all the time. You know, ultimately I'm responsible for what shows up, but the ideas can come from anywhere. Finding Mastery is brought to you by LinkedIn. Earlier, I mentioned LinkedIn Hiring Pro. And I want to come back to something a little more personal. We talk a lot about the people who make extraordinary things possible. And I want to take a moment to acknowledge some of ours.

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AG1 flavor sampler and a bottle of vitamin D3 plus K2 free in your welcome kit with your first AG1 subscription. It's a $72 value. Again, that's drinkag1.com slash finding mastery. When you've got tension with an athlete, and let's say that you've been coaching hard on something, and you've been working it, and let's say it's just game day for an example, and they make the same mistake that you've been working on. Yeah. And it's costly, let's say. What do you do to erode trust, and what do you do that builds trust? I'm not perfect in this area. That's right.

When you're at your worst, when you're at your best. Yeah. at our worst it's a knee-jerk reaction at our best we're playing the long game you said we not me yeah well me too yeah you know and is that something how do you prime yourself to not be reactive in a high-stress environment when there's a costly mistake when something that somebody has been working on and they screwed it up well i i feel like i need to be i need to be I need to be in my pocket. You know, sometimes I feel like that'll get displaced to the player.

You know, that happens. I can think of like times where that's happened where, yeah, I'm displacing my frustration with myself to somebody else. You know, so it's like, well, I need to handle my business first, you know, if I'm going to, so I can handle that, like, my job on game day is to lead the team and to, handle the game and the situations and it's not to have emotional reactions to things

that happen on the field, you know? So if I'm not in the right headspace or in the right like preparation, then those, that's when those, that's where I feel like I'm most like vulnerable to those decisions. But if I'm, if I'm on my stuff the way I should be, um,

you're kind of like in, you're in it with them at that point. You just, you got to move and shake and adjust. And we can deal with like, some of those more drastic decisions at the right time. But normally it's not, that right then is not the right time to do with those things. What do you think the athlete needs after a mistake that was obviously his fault? Yeah. What do you think an athlete needs in that moment?

Support. You know. Now, like, there's different ways of doing it. But like, it's about moving on to the next thing. You know, like what's important now is we go to the next play. We're, you know, we say we're a moment by moment team going and trying to win another moment, you know, going to try to win another play. How you get that done is probably unique to the relationship you have with the player, what works the best with them. Maybe sometimes it's not even me or a coach.

Sometimes it's another teammate. It's just different ways to communicate. But how we do it together is really important. You just gave the answers away to like another clue of your success is that it's the relationship. an honest relationship or you've built the relationship, you'll have a better chance at supporting them. Because maybe that support is like, hey, you know, you know what you need to do. Right. Maybe that's supportive, right? Maybe another way to support is like, all right, I got you. We'll figure this thing out. Like, keep balling. There's good in you. You know, like there's more in you

or something like that. If I'm doing it right and the player has had a hard time doing that thing, for me to continually put him in that situation is on me. So a lot of times you feel that responsibility. like, shoot, I shouldn't have done that. Like, I knew he had a hard time with that. Like, it's not his fault. He's shown that he hasn't been able to do that. Like, whose fault is that? Right.

You ask him to do something you can't do. You're going to ask me, you're going to ask Mike McDonald to go dunk. I can't dunk. Shame on you. You know, it's not my fault. I can't dunk, you know? So, like, that's how I look at it. And then if you've gotten to the point where you're going to ask them to do something in a game

and they don't do it. And they've shown the ability to do it and the intent in the right place and the inputs are in the right place. Man, is that like, it's so smooth. You know, it's really just a non-issue. It's just a non-issue. It's a bummer, but it's really should be a non-issue. Not always that way, but that's what you want. You've got Sam, Darnold, who came into the Seattle Seahawks with like a narrative about him.

You got a young coach, you know, that was a bit of like the community was not sure what they were. were going to get. How do you navigate that with one of the star players? That that relationship, that kind of narrative around both of you guys, do you address it? Do you talk about it? How do you work that relationship?

We never talked about it. You didn't? No. Especially from a defensive perspective, like, Sam needs to get coached. He needs to get coached hard as does the rest of the team. But like, I'm not the defensive expert. I'm not the quarterback footwork expert.

that's not my that's not my area now if if sam was like tripping about not working in practice whatever which would never happen like to me that's that's that's that's you know it's like that's that's that's an issue but that's that's that's a non-issue my thing for sam is he needs someone in his corner you know he needs he needs from the head coach and it's not like i'm just making up support for him it's like okay well let me see how this guy operates well it's pretty cool like uh his teammates respect the heck out of of him he's got a great way of of um like being a competitor and having an edge to him and being real but like it's just a great he's got a great like balance where you can kind of bob and weave

through those like modes and it's just like well what does he need you know let's let's let's give him what he needs to for the best you know for as best as we know let's give him what he needs and and and let's just let's go from there but if you see all the things you like seeing on a daily basis and then, you know, like a game, like the, we make such a big deal of the Rams game, but like, you know, a game doesn't go your way. Well, I just saw all the inputs that I liked, and I liked all the inputs. So who am I? I'm not going to, can't switch up now.

This is, you know, we're kind of, we're kind of all in here together, you know. Like I've signed off on what we've been doing for the last X amount of days, weeks, months. We're in the fight together at this point, you know. So that's, that's probably the way I looked at it. But honestly, try not to make it more than it is, you know. For folks that, like, love the NFL, and they might know some of the backstory of players or histories of folks. But the most intimate connection is on Sunday when they watch.

What are some of the things that folks would be surprised to know or would not have, it surprised you, you know, when you first got into the NFL about leadership, about locker room rules, about, like, what are some things that are interesting to you still? I cut my teeth through like scheme, you know, again, I didn't play. So my job was to find patterns and breakdowns and, you know, where to draw lines on a sheet of paper, how to install. But at the end of the day, I joke with people like, we sell football widgets, you know, the things that are successful that makes teams successful in football are, those principles are the same across, I would imagine, most teams in all different industries and all different shapes and sizes, you know. And it shows up. It's just not in a vacuum. Like you can have different coordinators, you can have different coaches, you have different players. But like it's all connected.

You know, like special teams is connected to offense and offenses connected to defense. And the offensive line play is connected to our D line play. And how well our rookies do is connected to what the veterans are doing. You know, it's just everything is playing. It all matters. You know, it all matters. And so. And then there's this synergy.

behind it. And that's one of our core principles, obviously, but I really believe that there's a power there if you get it right. What would people be shocked to know about the NFL that they don't know? I think people, to most fans, the NFL is like contracts and big names and superstars and who's the defensive genius. You know, it's like, okay, yeah, like great players matter. You need great players. coaches matter, but like it all matters. And there's a multiplication effect behind it, you know. You know, one of the things that if you were to ask me that question,

I would say just how honest the locker room can be. The coaches' rooms sometimes are not honest. But the locker rooms, like they're really honest rooms because they're counting on each other. And they tell the truth to each other. And when they don't, there's such tension. They figure out a way to kind of, break through that to get to it.

Like that's one of the things. Yeah, I buy that. Yeah, you buy that. It's really refreshing. You know, where people, through not around is what we're talking about, but it's really refreshing, you know. It's like, I've always said players know. Well, what do they know? Well, they know who's full of shit.

They know who's a good coach. They know who the best players are. You know, they know what the organization is like. They just, they just know. They know. So if you go around trying to fool them, like shame on you, you just, you have no idea. How do you think they know? I don't know. They just know. I mean, probably to your point, this is honest, you know, like they're living it. And ultimately, like, their livelihoods on the

line, you know, so they're, uh, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. They just know. If we knew what you knew, how would we be a better leader? I think that there's just something be said for like being like a, like a, like an authenticity to the, to the process, like a real if it's a real honest process where you're not trying to fool anybody you're not trying to pull a fast one you know like you actually understand what's going to work how your industry works what your customer wants you're not going to fool your customer i think i i'd imagine it's a pretty easy parallel like whoever you're serving is is going to know whether or not like you know you can go to a company you can go to a restaurant and know like do they care about the customer

You know, you can feel it. You can feel it. Like there's, we joke about like certain brands that that we have relationships with. Like, is this, do they really care that I, what I want or they have me in mind with, with what they're doing? Do they really, some, some companies you feel that way. Like, that's a real thing. What does it mean to be the type of coach that players want to play for? The leaders, that employees want to be led by, like, but players to be coached by.

I think if we can, if we can create, we're trying to create an environment where the short answer is where you feel like you can be your best version of yourself and play your best football. So how does that come to life? Well, to me it's not like a rigid set of like you got to like the same thing goes back to like the coaches playbook. Like you don't have to do, okay, like you don't have to do items A through double Z in that order and you'll play your best football. It's like there's space where I can be myself and I can be like

I can loosen up a little bit you know I can be you know I can move and shake and have some freedom to like okay well the coach trust me that my I've shown that like my inputs are right and I just and maybe I was a little silly

or maybe I was maybe I did go over the edge you know we say chasing edge maybe I did go the edge a little bit but I'm not going to get burned for it because we do feel like we're in it together And so we're, since that kind of ongoing, like, give and take relationship of there's an sense of urgency to push the envelope, to chase the edge, you know, to be great, to hold yourself to a high standard. But it's also, you know, room to wiggle a little bit and to have some innovation and to

try something that might not work. But maybe it does. Now you get a huge payoff. Like there's a dichotomy there, but if you get the balance right, I think, I think you can create something pretty cool. You got a full life, full plate. You are a head coach. Super Bowl winning head coach.

Yeah, crazy. You're a head coach. You're a husband. You're a father. You're a son. You've got lots of really important roles. You're a brother. How has being a father impacted this very full life that you have?

Man, it's a few things. The first thing is just is perspective. Again, you're playing the long game. You're playing the long game. Like, what actually, what actually meant? What are we actually doing here? Patience, you know?

Like, I feel, I didn't know I was going to be this way with Jack that, like, I just, like, love watching him do his thing, you know, and I love it. And if he screws up, it's like, ah, you know. But as I was in the right spot or like, oh, it was a cute that it was a crude screw up or he's, oh, he's pissed. And now he's, he's crying. It's like, well, like, yeah, I would rather not cry. But like maybe how do I get him not to cry?

You know, like, what does you need? You know, something's up. You know, it's not just doing it because I thought I would probably have like less patience with them. You know, or it's like, hey, you got to be the, got to be a good boy. You know, like I thought, I kind of thought that was about myself a little bit. So I'm like, puzzling surprised, I guess. But seeing through the lens, like, okay, this is someone that I really, obviously, really care about. Players are the same way.

The people that you work with are the same way. Let's play a little bit of a longer game here. you know and uh lightens you up a little bit you know loosens you up a little bit yeah when i was when i first had my son maybe the similar age of the facts is that i didn't know what to say when i was working with people i so i watched you i'm like damn he's like he's he's on it you were on it this year you were really on it and i didn't know what to say i'd sit down with an athlete or or, you know, some extraordinary performer in some vein. And I was like, everything was so jostled because of this new life in my life that I listened a lot.

And I lost my, I lost my voice. And so I was wondering how it affected you because that was definitely not it. Interesting. Yeah, that was definitely not how you did it. Sometimes I'm thinking like, well, what do I say to Jack? Oh, you do? All the time. I overthink, like, how to communicate with them.

Yeah, it's, it's a something that I'm trying to be better. What is your heart long for? With him? In life. Legacy has always been, like, a, like, something important to me. Not, not like, hey, I want to be, like, the best guy or looked at the best, but, like, what you've created, like, how you've created and impacted, you know, like, for the, like, for the best. long haul. Like, can you, can you create something real? You know, like that's, that's, um, like, that was like the pitch as a head coach coming to Seattle is like, this is what we want to create here.

You know, there's something special that people can be proud of and have like, have, have pride in the team and the community and like sense of, um, connection and, you know, have people look up here to the Pacific Northwest, like, hey, what the heck's going on up there? Like, you know, and then that inspires people. And it just this kind of snowball effect of coolness, you know. That's the big vision. Make it sweet. Make it sweet. Make it sweet. That's right. I want to take a second here to tell you about a morning routine that I've been using for years. For me, it's a great way to switch on my mind, to ready myself to take on the day. So before I check my phone, my emails, market updates, or text threads, I choose how to start my morning. That's always in my control. That's always in your

control too. This is the same morning mindset routine that some of the world's top performers across sport, business, and the arts are using. The best part, it only takes about 90 seconds to do. So just head over to finding mastery.com slash morning to download the audio guide for free. Again, head to finding mastery.com slash morning to get your morning mindset routine. When you zoom way out, beyond the rules, what do you hope? that the Seattle Seahawks community would understand so that they could be just a little bit better in their own lives.

Whatever that means for them. I think Jody had a great comment after the Super Bowl was she wants our team to be looked at through like the merits of what we do. And like she wants our principles, our way of life to like shine through how we go our way of life, you know, and it just made so much sense. This is this, like, they deserve that.

You know, our guys deserve that. Our team deserves that, I think. And it just keeps it simple, you know, it's just like, it is what it is. And, you know, our community, like our community, I think they see that, you know. And I think if our hearts were in a different spot, if we were kind of playing a different game, again, I think I think people would feel that to a certain extent. And it wouldn't, it wouldn't be as, wouldn't be. as impactful, you know, I don't think it would be as potent.

Last kind of thoughtful question here, and I got a couple more, is like... Here's a surprise. Tell me, tell me about what this means to you. The first thing is, is I'm wearing all my graduation regalia off of, like, all the crap that I won in high school. Back then, like, that really mattered to me. I got the, what the blue thing was, uh, was a natuilia? National Arts Society. I got French National Arts Society. I got the AJC Cup, which is like supposed to go to

the top senior or whatever. You had all the badges. All the badges. All the badges. All the badges. Yeah, but that's what I was thinking back then. Yeah. But like, I see it now. I just see me and my sisters. Yeah. Yeah. It's kind of cool. It's really

cool. I just got off the phone with Maggie and it's just like, we're not talking about the Super Bowl. You know, we talk about the team and like what's going on, you know, but like we're talking about life, you know, we're talking about her two two boys, you know, my dad, my stepmom just visited there, you know, we're just talking about life. And I'm learning, you know, we're bouncing ideas off each other. And it's just like we, it's just, it's like we've always had those conversations, you know, it's just really cool.

I think people would be surprised at just how much you bring the essence of your loved ones into what you do. Yeah. Right. It's one of the reasons I wanted to show that. And then I didn't, did not know you're going to say, oh my God, I'm wearing all my stickers. That's right. And then if that's the best way to put it my stickers. If we juxt suppose you're recounting of that to the way that you were handed the Lombardi trophy on stage. Yeah.

Most people when they're giving something like that, they hoist it up. They show everybody. And it's like not about look at me. It's look at the thing. But it's like, I'm the one holding it. And you like, you held it like almost like thoughtfully. and then you motioned for a couple of your players to come celebrate with you. Totally different than look at my stickers.

It was like, let's do this together. Yeah. Which is a really like... It's different from back in the day. It's way different. It's one of those subtle things. It's in plain sight, but there's a lot. There's a lot of wisdom in that moment.

I appreciate that. Yeah. What was that like for you? Oh, sorry, go ahead. I remember when I got this trophy, we were at my... It's actually at my church where they were doing graduation. And so they call my name and I go up there. And there's a bunch of people there.

I graduated with like 500 people and all their families are there. And I remember wanting, this is embarrassing to say, like, publicly. But I remember wanting to get on the microphone and deliver a thank you speech to everybody. And I did one of the like, I mean, it's like shameful, you know. But I remember that because it mattered so much to me. And then here, 20 years later, whatever it is, like you're wanting to pull people forward that were obviously the... Yeah, it just didn't feel right in that moment to be like, hey, like, this is mine.

It's like, this is not mine. They just, you know, this is... Yeah. It was our, you know, it was always ours, you know, and it was just a nod to the guys. Cool moment. All right. So we've got, in the Finding Master community, we got people that are serious. about the Seahawks.

Love it. Great. They're everywhere. It's all through everywhere. Richard Schott asks, how do you help players separate their self-worth from the Sunday box score so that they can perform freely at an elite level? Wow. Richard.

You weren't kidding about people listening. Our community is really smart. Yeah, that's great. This is a tricky one because you get rewarded financially so much through the box, through your actual like stack numbers or touchdown numbers or whatever. So it's a constant communication of how the, how like your production is really a reflection of like your impact on team success and where you like fit in in the cog and how like, you know,

people, when you say rising tie races all ships, but it really is that mentality. So like you can be a heck of a productive player and just play the A. gap and it's our job as coaches to make that come to life on why that is so important and you doing like that dirty work man does that set up at this set up the corner for an interception believe it or not you know like you can you can you can connect the dots and so we coach that way systematically how everything kind of like works off each other it's not easy it's a balancing act honestly it's it's it's one it's one of our biggest challenges yeah i think one of the things that you do is you

you don't tie their box score to their self-worth. The language does not support it. The model does not support it that you've built. And I've never heard anyone in this organization say, you know, once you get it right, then you're worth something. Yeah. Like you have, you just, I think, Richard, there's like this, there's a clear understanding that you are not what you do.

You are in of yourself. You have value and worth. And we want to be able to honor what makes you special. put you in the right situation and support and challenge you to do just that. Yeah. I think a couple things come to mind listen to is we try to celebrate like the non-obvious and like you being the self worth of like you being a great teammate. We try to celebrate that in front of people like try to find you doing those things.

And we have like have our little ways of doing it. They're unique to us, which is cool. I think what what makes our organization. really great is the people that John has hired to surround the players, like has nothing to do with your production on the field, you know, like our investment in our players is the same, in terms of the person is the same as the guy we're paying $20 million is the guy that just walked in the door. They have all the same resources and we invest all that equally throughout throughout the team, you know, it's, yeah, but it's not easy.

Joe Barsana. Okay, so he asks, What role does vulnerability play in high-performance environments like the NFL? I feel like this is a lay-up question. I feel like you picked this one. I did not pick this one. Man, this is something that I've, maybe not intentionally that we got right. I think this, honestly, probably just going through the process of, hey, we're in it together, you know, the language, the model. But I do think, like, if you actually do feel like you're part of the solutions,

and like and getting it right when you do fall short like I do feel like it's my responsibility to let the guys know you know where because I'm in the fight with them so it's like if I'm if I'm the way I don't know if you're out in battle with somebody like and you debriefed after a mission you know all those high performing teams are always like oh I yeah I should have I should have cleared that I should have gone right when I went in that room I screwed you up there and that's you know and it's like that's it's such a to me it's like a no brainer and we we go to our we say to our players look my job is to put you at premium situations where you can have success.

That's my job. Whether how we train you, how we call the game, how we game plan, the expectation that I have for us and for our coaches that we consistently put you in the upper hand situation. Like, otherwise, you know, what are we doing? You know, like, why are we, why do we study tape? And I would add one little subtlety here is that you, we both know, this is not just unique to us, but you can't demonstrate courage without some sort of vulnerability. Because courage is like, I'm scared and I'm going to do this thing anyway.

It's like bravery and courage. And there's an energy about like you're not quite sure, but you're still going to go for it. And you can practice vulnerability. One of the ways you can practice it is having an honest conversation with somebody about something you normally don't talk about. These subtle little all-way conversations or shaped experiences that you have invested in making sure that those happen. And it's like these small little additions, you know, to being courageous by, you know, moments of vulnerability that you wouldn't expect only happen on game day or on Wednesday in an intense practice. Yeah, it's, it's practicing it.

You know, that's really, I guess it's that simple. Like, to my point earlier, it's like, if I make, if I put a guy in a bad spot to my job to take response. for that in a group setting so that they know that I'm I'm in it with them like when we talk about how we want to operate and we want to be a connected team how do you become a connected team if you're not if you're not willing to like lower those walls so people can understand who you are and where you're coming from you know it's something that we've worked on with me yeah and then our team and our leaders have done a great job of of setting the example you know in our conversations with with younger guys answer in one word or two or whatever it all

comes down to reality success is marked by dedication if you could sit with a true master of craft true master who would that be wow man that's a great one and there's like you can go in so many different directions uh teddy roosevelt total surprise my mind went in all sorts of places on that one if you had one question for teddy i'd love to learn like his, like how he got his mindset. You know, like, where does, where does that come from and why? You know, because it's more aggressive than mine. Hmm.

You know, there's more, there's some more, you know, there's some more, like, there's more like bravado to it, you know, like more. Like, like, case in point from your question. Like, I like to, I like to assess and then go, I felt like he. It's a little bit of a superpower that you're really thoughtful, impensive, and you're not bullied by the empty space. Like, you just, you know, I'm sure this is out there that he had a speech writer, but his 1921 Sarbonne-Paris speech is elite. It is unreal. Yeah. Well, you've heard a snippet of it, the quote-unquote man in the arena.

Yeah. But that entire prose is, like, unbelievable. pressure comes from a lack of preparation vision is beacon of light in the northwest who tells you no leslie fraser let's up leslie coach it was so fun to be able to have this conversation with you to celebrate like your approach to being your very best your approach to helping this team be their very best and I've loved every minute of being able to, you know, like ride shotgun and knee in this world that you're architecting. So. I appreciate your brother. It's been awesome.

And I love this conversation. Is there anything that you want to make sure that we didn't talk about that? No, I mean, we could go, I feel like we could go all day. Yeah. Yeah. You need your own show. That I don't need. But it was fun being on this one, though.

Appreciate you. Yeah, you too, brother. Next time on Finding Mastery, we're joined by Dr. Volta Longo, professor and director of the longevity Institute at USC and best-selling author of the longevity diet and fasting cancer. In this conversation, he shares groundbreaking research on fasting-mimicking diets and the remarkable role they may play in helping the body repair itself, fight disease and even support cancer treatments.

From longevity and nutrition to the science of cellular renewal, this episode explores how small changes in how we eat, may have a profound impact on our long-term health. Join us Wednesday, June 24th at 9 a.m. Pacific, only on Finding Mastery. All right. Thank you so much for diving into another episode of Finding Mastery with us. Our team loves creating this podcast and sharing these conversations with you. We really appreciate you being part of this community. And if you're enjoying the show, the easiest no-cost way to support is to hit the subscribe

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