Finding Mastery with Dr. Michael Gervais - The Truth Behind Early Success | Tara Lipinski, Unfiltered

Episode Date: May 18, 2022

This week’s conversation is with Tara Lipinski, an internationally acclaimed figure skater who you might recognize from her performance at the 1998 Nagano Olympic games where – at age 15 – she became the youngest athlete to win an individual Gold Medal in the history of the Winter Games. Tara is also recognized as the youngest competitor to win the World Professional Figure Skating Championships in 1999 at age 17, and the youngest-ever inductee into the United States Figure Skating Hall of Fame in 2006.In the now 20+ years since her Olympic triumph, Tara has taken the same championship-style approach to her new role as a TV sports commentator for NBC and Universal Sports – she was the analyst for figure skating at the 2022 Winter Olympics in Beijing - where her depth of technical knowledge – and more strikingly – her deep authentic nature – was gripping. Tara is an absolute legend and this conversation is about “the how” that sits underneath her uncommon commitment to become her very best … I can’t wait for you to hear her insights, which hopefully will help you discover “that magic” - as she calls it._________________Subscribe to our Youtube Channel for more powerful conversations at the intersection of high performance, leadership, and meaning: https://www.youtube.com/c/FindingMasteryGet exclusive discounts and support our amazing sponsors! Go to: https://findingmastery.com/sponsors/Subscribe to the Finding Mastery newsletter for weekly high performance insights: https://www.findingmastery.com/newsletter Download Dr. Mike's Morning Mindset Routine! https://www.findingmastery.com/morningmindsetFollow us on Instagram, LinkedIn, and X.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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I'm Dr. Michael Gervais by trade and training a sport and performance psychologist. And the whole idea behind this conversation is to learn from people who are challenging the edges and the reaches of the human experience in business and sport and science in life in general. We pull back the curtain to explore how they have committed to mastering both their craft and their minds in an effort to express their potential. Finding Mastery is brought to you by LinkedIn Sales Solutions. In any high-performing environment that I've been part of, from elite teams to executive boardrooms, one thing holds true. Meaningful relationships are at the center of sustained success. And building those

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linkedin.com slash deal for two full months for free. Terms and conditions apply. Finding Mastery is brought to you by David Protein. I'm pretty intentional about what I eat, and the majority of my nutrition comes from whole foods. And when I'm traveling or in between meals, on a demanding day certainly, I need something quick that will support the way that I feel and think and perform. And that's why I've been leaning on David Protein Bars. And so has the team here at Finding Mastery. In fact, our GM, Stuart, he loves them so much. I just want to kind of quickly put them on the spot. Stuart, I know you're listening. I think you might be the reason that we're running out of these bars so quickly. They're incredible, Mike. I love them. One a day, one a day. What do you mean one a day? There's way more than that happening here.

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She is internationally recognized as a figure skater who changed the games. And you might remember it was way back 1998 at the Nagano Olympic Games, where at the age of 15, she became the youngest athlete to win an individual gold medal in the history of the Winter Games. How about that? She went on to be inducted into the United States Figure Skating Hall of Fame in 2006. Now it's been 20 years since her Olympic triumph, but what she did as a host, as a commentator, as an analyst in the 2022 Winter Games in Beijing was incredible. Her depth of technical knowledge translates really well, but more strikingly, it was her deep authentic nature that was so gripping as she walked us through what it was like

for one of the athletes that was competing to be flagged as potentially having a drug violation. And just the humanity and how she approached that conversation, I said, I've got to have her on. She's an absolute legend. And this conversation is about the how that sits underneath her uncommon commitment to become her very best. Not only as an athlete, which she demonstrated, she clearly was the best at that games, but also how she translates that into every part of her life. This is the deep, the deep investigation that we're on in this podcast is how does the guest take these deep insights and these set of practices and these first principles in their

life that they've demonstrated in one aspect, and then how did they pour it over and transfer to whatever it is that you're doing? And those that have the ability to say, this is how I did it in X phase of my life. And this is how I'm also doing it in this new phase of my life. They're making the translation a lot easier for us. She talks about that magic. And my hope is that when you hear her insights, that it will help you discover or rediscover that magic that we all hold.

Now with that, let's jump right into this week's conversation with Olympic gold medalist and absolute legend, Tara Lipinski. Tara, how are you? I'm good. Thank you for having me. I have watched you for a long time. And in the 98 Olympic games, when you won gold, it was extraordinary. You're 15 years old and it was magical. And I can 98 Olympic games, when you won gold, it was extraordinary. You're 15 years old and it was magical. And I can't wait to talk to you about that. But then in the most recent games, you did something that was equally, in my mind, extraordinary, is that you held presence in a very difficult role to comment on this mix between sport integrity and then empathy for a 15 year old who was potentially going to win gold, but trying to sort out this political personal landscape that was just upside down. So maybe you can, maybe I want to know how you

were so grounded and present and clear and compassionate. And like, there was a way about you that I was like, yes, I, that is the essence of being a strong human. And so from bookend, I'm, I want to learn. And so can you just start from the, from backwards this last games and what it was like for you to be there and comment and witness this really, I don't know, complicated moment for, for all skating. It was, it was wild. It was so unexpected. I mean, obviously I've been commentating for over a decade and you just think back to sort of, you know, events or moments like this and figure skating. And there's only a few big, shocking moments. And I think that this, I'm not sure

we'll ever have an Olympic Games and figure skating like this again for a long time. And it was, was unexpected. It was, it was definitely difficult as a broadcaster to handle. It was something that we weren't prepared for in the way that we, you take a 15-year-old as the star of the show who's being put in this position. You take the fact that this has never happened before where there's an exception and someone who tests positive is going to be allowed to compete. The fact that this has never happened before where there's an exception and someone who tests positive is going to be allowed to compete. You take all of these variables and it's just something that you don't really know how to

prepare for. So I'm glad to hear that at least it resonated to you and hopefully to people at home in the way that Johnny and I, I think we were strong in our opinions and, and kept reminding ourselves, even though this was such a different situation that we, you know, had not encountered before, but reminding ourselves that just taking our experience as, you know, athletes as Olympians and just as humans and how we feel and, and standing by those opinions and those thoughts. And for me, my only worry, you know, was that I just wanted my true feelings to come across of, of how complicated a situation it was and how I could

feel two things at once that I could feel so very strong about my opinion that she should not be able to skate. And then at the same time, feel incredibly, you know, compassionate and, and sad and upset that a 15 year old was in this position and had to deal with what she was dealing with and that the adults around her were making decisions that she had to bear the consequences for and only Camila had to you know they it's like they pushed her out to center ice and said it's all yours you figure it out now and and I just think that's so incredibly wrong but back to my my original point, I just, I did, I felt two things at once. And, you know, I think she shouldn't have been able to skate. And it's also horrible what she had to go through at just 15. There's a sophistication in what you're saying about being able to navigate two feelings at the same time. Let's use this moment because so many of us have moments in our lives where there's lots going on inside of us and there's a bit of pressure to eloquently express and get it

out. And for you, there's certainly some stakes on it because I'm assuming it was live, but I don't know if it was taped. It was all live, right? Yeah. And so it's not that different than like walking into a boardroom and pitching an idea or walking down a hallway and a supervisor says, hey, I really need to talk to you right now. And you're pissed off and scared and a bit overwhelmed and rushed and frantic about something. And you've got to get something out eloquently. So how did you prepare? This is no longer about Camila and sport integrity. We'll come back to that in a minute, but how did you prepare yourself to be completely authentic and to work from that graceful place? I'm a perfectionist. So I love having

all the facts in front of me. I love doing a ton of notes and research. And that's just how I prepare for, for any commentary that I take on. I have every note known to man. It takes me hours. And I usually use one or two of these hundreds of notes that I take. But I just like them there for comfort. I feel like the process of me doing that is it's like my, I'm studying the character, I'm studying the athlete. So I feel like I connect with them. I know so much about them, those little facts, you know, kind of just sink into my subconscious. And then when I'm in the booth, I realized like, you have to throw all of that away and live in the moment. And I, for me, I, it almost feels like I did it, like it would feel as an, when I was an athlete, when I would get into that,

quote unquote zone or into that groove. And I find myself feeling that same way or always hoping I get there, but, you know, just where I'm, I'm so authentic in what I'm feeling in the moment that whatever I'm watching, whatever is, is happening in front of me, that that passion is what leads everything else that I say, because I think that, you know, there's so much to think about as a, as a broadcaster. I mean, you're trying to storytell, you're trying to set up a program. You're you're trying to explain to them technically artistically what's happened. You're trying to add emotion. You're trying to add suspense. You're trying to remind them what's to come.

And so there's all of these things that you're trying to explain a scoring system, but if you get so technical and try to formulate it in, in any way, I think then you lose some of the you know that magic that like spot you want to be in where Johnny and I are bantering and you're having a thought that comes up so natural to what we're seeing and so I guess for me I just I take a ton of notes and then I throw them away practically when I, you know, right before I sit down, I essentially, I throw them away and try to, to really live it.

That doesn't sound that different than what I would anticipate from a gold medalist, right? Which is all of the training and preparation to get to the center ice and have that first note hit. And then you're completely on time with the music and you're fully absorbed. You know, like there's a hydrate. I, I, I love this word of hydration, meaning that like I am hydrated and I'm full, like I'm expanded. My cells are expanded in the right way and it doesn't quite do flow state of the zone justice, but okay. So there's all this training and do you handwrite your notes? I handwrite my notes. And then, so you said perfectionist, you know, that's not just going to slip by me now. I know. I know. Okay. So bad though. I mean, I don't know if it's a good

thing and it's a great thing in some ways. And then it definitely controls a lot of my life. Okay. Can we talk about it? Sure. All right. Were you a perfectionist when you were 13, 14, 15 preparing for Nagano? Yes. I was, my coaches were telling me to get off the ice and I was asking to go back on. And what does perfectionist mean to you? When I feel good, like do it till I feel that I'm comfortable or confident or that I check it off in my mind. Like that's good enough for me. Well, that's different than perfectionism.

Perfectionism is like, for me, it has like the working definition is if it's not perfect, it's not right. But you're saying, no, when it feels right to me, but is it about being perfect or is it about like a tuning fork? And when the tuning fork strikes and you're like, oh yeah, that's the right note. That's how it's supposed to sound or feel or look. Right. Maybe it's a mix.

That's actually interesting to think about. Maybe it's a mix because I also like things perfect, you know, like they have to be perfect, but sometimes I wonder. Is your desk perfect? Well, we just moved into a home. So we, it's just a plain desk right now there's literally not a thing on it other than this computer but um yes at home I'm completely organized I have a place for everything yeah I'm deaf but you know what's strange again this is

weird I think it's like what I deem okay sometimes though, because then I feel like there are times where like my desk can be messy, but it's like, I'm like, oh, well I'm in this space. Like it's okay for that to be messy. Okay. So sometimes perfectionism is born out of like a grab for control when our inner life feels so messy that we need our external world to just be perfect. And you know, it will get you really good if you still have, or underneath you have the ability to apply high effort and patience, and there's a deep focus, like it is part of the recipe, but the cost can be extraordinary. There's a dark side to

perfectionism. And I don't think it gets you to extended greatness, even extended goodness, if that's the right word here. So can you talk about, I mean, is your inner life messy? So anxiety, like I would say, yeah, I would say that I am in like naturally type a anxious person. I just am a worry wart. I think that I use the word, you know, again, I'm not sure if I'm using it correctly, but I use the word, you know, perfectionist, you know, to, to describe myself in a lot of ways, because that's part like of my day. It's, you know, even if I'm doing an interview, even if I'm doing an interview and I'm like, Oh, I could do this better. Like it bothers me. It will stay there.

What do you say to yourself when it's not perfect? Well, I want to do it again. Or I say there's no time. Oh, like then I just have to leave it and move on. It bothers me. I'll think about it. What I've realized now has been great is that eventually like time will just heal it. So it will bother me and I'll think about it and I'll think about

it later that day. And I'll think of like, I wish I did this, or I wish I did that, or I wish I said this. And then I realized like the next day, it doesn't really bother me as much. So that's been a great coping mechanism for me of, okay, like just tomorrow I'll feel differently. And does that, I wish, I wish, or sometimes it's more severe. Does it feel like a little paper cut or does it, is it cut deeper? No, it's more just like this annoying thing that I'm like, oh, okay. Yeah. So it's not, yeah. So it's not like there's a whole lot of, um, agitation around the, I wish I would have. Okay. And it feels like what's

crazy about that too, is it feels like it never truly affects my inner part of me. Oh, that's interesting. It feels like it stays just in that. And like, I never feel like, oh, wow, I'm not good enough or like, or I get down on myself or I get sad. Like it never goes there. It's just this, I mean, it can be as simple of the way that I'm lining up my, you know, forks when I put them away in the, from the dishwasher. Like I want them. You just crossed the line. Now, you know, you just went into weird zone like that, right? You just went to forks lining up. I did. I like my forks. I have led the way on the world stage. So this is important to understand. I do want to understand if there's a dark side to it. I I'm not getting that yet.

No, I think there probably is though, because, you know, when I was training out, this brings up and this past, but you know, athletes have superstitions, but I don't know how healthy those, you know, really are. Because I remember when I was training my life, it was so clear that it wasn't like, oh, I want to be like perfect at something. It was, I need to grab onto any type of control because there's none in my life right now. But when I was younger, I used to do so many superstitions, what I called superstitions throughout the day of moving things or wearing a certain color, you know, mitten to the rink, or, you know, I just think that I had so many of those superstitions that looking back, like, I don't think that was healthy.

Okay. So let's go from superstition perfectionist to OCD. Right. Is it OCD where like, I can't go to bed if the forks are not lined up right. No, it's not there. I can't leave the house if my bed is not to the dimes. No. I mean, I laugh at my perfectionist things, but like, I don't need to, to do them. But when I was younger, I will say that the, that need of those superstitions felt overwhelming at the time. Okay. Two questions.

If you had a six-year-old little girl that you were coaching, would you coach her to have perfectionism and to line everything up? And no, you wouldn't. No, because I think like that living in your head at times is really annoying. So I wouldn't because I probably would say, isn't that the healthier way? But I would say at the same time, I think that these perfectionist qualities helped me achieve what I did. Finding Mastery is brought to you by Momentous.

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Just head to FelixGray.com and use the code FINDINGMASTERY20 at checkout. Again, that's Felix Gray. You spell it F-E-L-I-X-G-R-A-Y.com and use the code FindingMastery20 at FelixGray.com for 20% off. When you speak to yourself, do you speak to yourself in ways that you would broadcast so others could listen or meaning like there's like, yeah, like I'm great to myself. I've got my back. I've I'm, I'm taking care of me. Or would, would you be like, Ooh, I hope people don't hear this.

Cause God, No, see, that's what I was saying earlier. It never like bothers me. Like I feel, or like it never, it's never like, oh, I am, I wish I, you know, or I feel badly about who I am in that moment. Or I don't feel any of those feelings. And I don't even think that when I'm doing something that's not up to the standard that I want it to be, that it's my fault.

I just think that I like, why not do it again? So it's like, it's funny with in the commentary booth, like with Johnny and Terry, it's just a known fact that like, we'll do it on camera in my head. I'll be like, that was great, but I want to do it one more time because I want to try it this way. And then I'll do that. And then I'll be like, Ooh, but I kind of, maybe I'm going to take a little bit of the first one in this. And then eventually I'm just like, okay, it's fine. But like, they know that I'm that person that like wants to try again. I feel like that's what my perfectionism is. Sometimes it's not of like, Oh, that was so bad. I need to do it again. It's more like, it was okay, but I want to try, like, I want repetition.

Okay. So let's, let's cross, cross the line. One more layer here for context is I need to do, I need to do it again. That was, that was not good enough versus I need to do it. I need to do it again because I'm not good enough. Like I, what am I doing with myself? It's not that second one. No.

And my question would be, can people that are perfectionists and they have that second one, that probably doesn't lead to success, does it? Like, how do you get past that? It can healing. It's awful. It's really hard, you know, and that the subtlety that we're getting into here is actually quite important because you didn't take that extra dig, which is like, I'm not good. You kept it on the product. And if the product didn't feel right, it doesn't mean you're not right. It just means the product is not right. Yeah, that's probably what I mean when I feel like it's here.

Outside of you. It never really gets to me. And then how do you parse these two nuances, perfectionism and high standards? How would you explain the difference between those, that thin line? That's a great question. Well, it's interesting because I'm just thinking now to what you said earlier of, you know, when you talk about perfectionism and you talk about wanting to do it better what is is it because I think that this is perfect and I clearly didn't reach it or does it go back to like me and the standard that I have for myself or that I set for myself? Or maybe is it that I already know

really my, like the top echelon of what I could hit in this moment of as close to perfect as possible. So when I think about that, I just started thinking like, am I ever really hitting perfect or whatever the perfect standard is? Like, maybe not, maybe it's only what I think needs to be hit. I really like this because maybe you're not a perfectionist. Maybe you have these really high standards and you're looking, you're looking for that feeling that it is true. It's pure. It is, um, eloquent. It is like, right. And that's what I saw in 98, but I don't know your inner life at that point. And that is what I saw in the last games here. That's so interesting. I wonder if I feel like that feels very on point for the way I think.

And now that I think about it, I do think like even my level of perfection may not even be like perfect to most people out there, but I'm like, I got that good feeling. And like the feeling, which is crazy is I was always a skater that relied on feeling like they'll be like, oh, are you in your head? Are you like, are you feeling skater? I always was feeling. And even as I commentate there's so much feeling where I feel in it and I feel this and I think that's what happens too when

I have this training or repetition or wanting to do more it's more just like I want to feel that feeling where it feels like I've hit the sweet spot do, when you look back at your athletic mind itself and you had this high standard or maybe it's perfectionism, but whatever that was at that point that we're articulating, is there, is there scar tissue from the way you spoke to yourself and the way you conducted your inner life? From when I was an athlete? Yeah. Are you still dealing with some stuff now? And let me explain it a little bit more clearly is like, I've got, I've got family stuff that I work through and it was somehow created by me and created by others. And so like all of us do, we're all trying to figure this, this world out. Like,

and we came from whatever drama we had in our family. Some people had little, some people had lots, but then we're trying to sort it out still. There's still, there's baggage or some scar tissue or whatever. And I'm wondering if just, if we just took this narrow slice of the way that you worked within yourself to be the best in the world at age 15, which is, I mean, I hope people are pausing, listening to that the best in the world at age 15, that is there any scar tissue from the way that you became? All right. Talk us, talk me through that. Well, it's just funny. Again, it goes back to the perfectionism thing, because I feel like the way that I trained, the way that I was, the way that I thought has shaped me into the person, you know, I am today. Like I skated for 15 years and then went

on to skate for many more years after that, you know, a huge chunk of my life. So by the time I came out into the real world, I was 20 something years old. So skating, you know, was a huge part and it has affected me in, in every single way. And I just think that dealing with that pressure and dealing with what I thought was life and death, you know, competitions and, you know, the way, like I said, the way that I trained, the way that, you know, I wasn't the skater that would go out and be like, I love skating so much. I'm just breezing through the day and doing a little training. Like to me, it was today is so important.

Today is a Monday and it's so important where it probably wasn't that important. So I think like those things add up over time. Also the pressure that I was under and, you know, I don't know if that's why I am a little bit more anxious. I am a little bit more of a worry wart. I am, you know, everything that I take on has to be, I have to, to work so hard at it. I have to, you know, just dive in and, and, and it encompasses me. And I have, you know, I, I just never been able to say like, even when I try like, Oh, I'm going to balance it out a little bit and just be, I'm just never that person. No, that's like, you've had years of conditioning your mind in a certain way. Yeah. So now you're on camera and people are still watching you.

You've been watched your whole life. Do you feel understood? Do you feel seen in a way that is material to belonging with depth or do you struggle at all with being the, the pretty doll that's out in the, in the center ice and the, the, the prop on, on TV that is like smart and darling and, but not really seen. You know, I would say like on a whole, probably not. But if you really were to take it all apart, I'm sure there's a little bit of that because it is so hard. Anytime you're in the public, you know, light in any way, you know, as an athlete, I felt probably more misunderstood than I do now, where I can really, as an adult woman, be

able to voice what I'm saying and have confidence that people, most people should understand or get the essence or vibe of who I am. But as a kid in a sport where, you know, it wasn't about Tara, it was about Tara, the athlete and who I was in that moment and the rivalry that I was in and what was good about me, what was bad about me. I think that also just being 15 and being as good as I was and achieving the success that I did, just the media, people talk about that in a certain way, like, oh, this kid must be this or that. And I think I read a lot about those things where I felt, you know, misunderstood at the time. But I've always, I've always been someone who doesn't really care that much what people think.

I care a lot about doing a good job at things, but I don't care so much about like what people think. Like, if I'm a little misunderstood, I'm the type of person that I'm like, okay, like it's, I can like be okay with that, which is weird. But like, I want like, like I'm also, I'm also a person that my husband, like, I, I don't know if I feel embarrassment all that often. Like I can feel it, but like, I can also, I don't know if it's that I've been in these situations as a kid and had to be in front of, you know, so many people and things go wrong that I'm not, I'm not easily embarrassed. Like I'll ask someone a question that like, just, you know know I don't know I'm just never I don't overthink too much of what people actually think about me as a person I would of course like any human I would be upset

if someone's like oh she's she's horrible I hate her I would feel like oh wait I want to tell you why but on a whole as like Tara that people see I think I just kind of know that there's going to be people that don't get me or don't understand me. Or, you know, I think like I probably had to learn that at a young age or it would have driven me insane. What did you learn? I think this is one of the great constrictors for human potential is this chronic fear of what are they going to think of me? And so we become small or we contort ourself for approval. And what did you learn and how did you learn it?

I don't know. I mean, you know, I'm trying to think like when I was younger, I remember like when, because I was in this huge rivalry with Michelle Kwan and there would be a lot of headlines that were hard to read at 13, 14, 15 years old. And like the internet, thank God wasn't at the place that it is now, but there used to be the message boards. And I remember my dad, you know, I, I didn't like it. And then as a kid, and that's why I'm saying, I think as a teenager, that stuff bothered me more, but maybe during that time, it was like prepping me to actually have a thicker skin.

But my dad always would just say like, oh, like that's good that they're talking about you. And I'm like, no, but they're saying mean things. And he's like, yeah, that still means you're doing something right. So whenever you see something that's not, that's negative, that like you need to take that as a positive because they wouldn't be talking about you if you weren't doing something right. So once they stop talking, then you're probably not doing something right. So I always thought about that. The power of reframe. It's I mean, what did your dad do? How did he spend his time? Is he still alive? So he has it. I mean, I'm, I'm so proud of my dad. He, um, he like, he grew up in, in Jersey city and started pumping gas. And then he became, you know, a CEO of a, an oil company, um,

you know, my 50, 60 years later or whenever it was. So, okay. And he's still, he's still with you. He, yes. And he, he's retired though, but yes, he's the, he's the best. He always has all the great like quotes and all the great analogies. And yeah, I don't know. I think like, also you think about parenting and my parents and when we talk about like, why me, you know, sometimes I do, I think that of course I want people to like me I mean that's just you would not be human if it isn't bad but I think on the professional side it doesn't get at me as much and I think maybe you know even thinking back to the way that I was raised through sport I always felt so loved and I always felt that they thought I was so good.

Even if, you know, I lost, even if there was never, I never had that like, oh, I've got to prove to my parents that I'm good or that they should be proud. Like, I feel like they just loved me as a, you know, as a person and knew that I was trying my best. And that always gave me, I think, a lot of comfort. Did the drive come from you to wake up at 430 in the morning and get your tail over to the cold rink? it's like that perfect storm that you need. And so my parents like to afford skating, my dad had to live in Texas and we had to move away to train. And my mom was living away and it was sort of a rule that we went to the rink. There was no messing around, you know, there was no talking with friends instead of, you know, skating or training. It was, it was business. And it was, if you love to skate and you want to do this, you're going to work hard. If not, I don't care. Let's get you back home. And you're, you know,

we don't like, they were never into sports. They didn't do sports themselves. And so there was this, they didn't push me, but there was definitely, you go to the rink to train. So, um, I, I feel like that shaped me a little bit. Um, and then I think the rest of it was just me that kicked in and I just had this drive. Like, I really don't think I had that many days where I woke up and really didn't want to go to the rink. I would go to the rink and cry because it would be a bad day and I knew it was going to be a bad day. But I still like I still had that drive to go. OK, how do you how do you match that part of your life with when you were 15 earlier in the conversation, you said skating felt like life or death. So this is like two things can be true. So how do you,

how do you map those two together? Of that? I had the drive to go, but. Yeah. So like there wasn't this great pressure and, but it felt like when you got on the ice to compete, it was life or death, you know? Oh yeah. No, there wasn't a great pressure from then for me to skate, but whatever I felt was a great pressure. So it was life or death for me. If I missed a job, if I was struggling with a job and to be honest, I think this is what was hard about being so young in the sport is I didn't have a jump and to be honest, I think this is what was hard about being so young in the sport is I didn't have a lot of life experience and perspective and everyone will be like, oh, you were so young. You probably didn't know what was going on. And, and I actually

think now really reflecting on it, it was harder because I didn't have that life experience. You know, now if something goes wrong, I'm like, I have my husband, I have my mom, my dad, I have my health. I have these things. And when you're 14, you know, think about it. You go to high school, you break up with someone. It's like, oh, my life is over. I'm never finding another person again. Like that's how it felt to me. You know, that was my relationship with skating. I always say it, it was like a human relationship. It was a love hate, you know, had to work at the relationship. It let you down a lot. You were confused sometimes. So, you know, I think that for me, not having, you know, a lot of life experience made it harder and made that life or death feeling there, you know. I appreciate that because I've heard from many first-time Olympians that were

not 15 most are a little bit older than that but you know say boy on the on my sophomore games like it's way harder I know now like this thing is like a beast and but you're not you're saying I think I would have done better in my sophomore games I don't know if I would have done better in my sophomore games. I don't know if I would have done better. I just think that the pressure would have maybe felt a little, I don't, I think the pressure was at a level that like, I don't know how I did it. Like at those games, my legs were shaking. I, it was, it was just enormous pressure. And I think with a little more life experience, I would have stepped on the ice and said, okay, this is everything you want, but your life is going to be okay after.

I felt like I was going out there like, this is it. I've got to do this. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. You rolled out to center ice with your legs? Shaking. Now, was that normal or not normal for you? Never had that. Wait a minute. You rolled out to center ice with your legs. Shaking. Now, was that normal or not? Never had that. Never. I would always get like a little nauseous and like that butterfly feeling.

What did you do? Why that? Why did you have that response? What were you? Okay, hold on. I'm too excited. What were you saying to yourself that was different in these games than other competitions? It wasn't that I was saying anything different. It was that I knew. I mean, this is what you train your whole life for. Your life will change in an instant. You could have thought of this moment and you can create it. And in the next five minutes, you'll know if you've done that.

And that is just like something I don't think you can prepare for. I don't think you can try to, you know, tell yourself not to get nervous. I mean, obviously I used all the techniques of distraction and I listened to tapes before I went to bed and I did all these things, but I think at the end of the day, like I just knew that this was, this was a big moment. Oh my God. Okay. Did you work with the sports psych? I did. Okay. I did. And so there's a fundamental decision, hopefully that we help folks with. It's either a big moment or it's another opportunity. So the games are the biggest show on earth. Crazy, crazy, crazy. So let's train for it. Or the rink size is the same point system is the same, same 20 athletes rules are the same.

Just go out and skate. And you know what? Let's figure out how to dial in an incredible readiness to be in your ideal state, no matter where you are on the rink or on the ice at home, like whatever, be practice being your very best everywhere you go. So there's two ways to go about it. And if you choose the former, you have to create a training environment of chaos, of heightened intensity. You've got to, I don't know, put a thousand dollars on the, on the line. If you have 2000 in your bank account, you know, like that type of thing and you owe it to your coach or something wild, you know, to be able to create a scenario of pressure. Now, did you formally choose one or the other? Like, okay, it's, it's the biggest show or it's another game.

It's another day is what I, I chose. But you showed up and it wasn't just another day, but it wasn't. So that's, that's where it goes sideways. Well, that's what I was going to say. I don't know, is that again, my age, I didn't have the sophistication or the, the ability to really stay in. This is an opportunity. This is the same as any other training day. You know, I, I definitely trained for that. I mean, that's what we did. We wouldn't, this is practice, but it didn't feel like practice. Finding Mastery is brought to you by Cozy Earth.

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the next 16 year old that's going to be 18 in the games or the old, that's going to be 18 in the games or the next 15, that's going to be 18 in the games. How would you coach her? Yeah. I mean, it's so hard because I think about this so often, I'm sure it's like anything it's like parenting and said, it's like making these choices of what, how much of the athlete's personality and just who they are as how they think, how they work, what makes them tick, how, how much of that could be the same as it was for me. It's probably such an individualized experience that you have to adapt to that. So that's what would be so, you know, intimidating thinking about being a coach of thinking, you know, just thinking ahead and wondering,

will I be able to know what this person uniquely needs? Because it, I can definitely give them, you know, my recipe and it worked, but I don't know if it would work for them. But if we're going off of my recipe and I'm handing that down, I think repetition breeds confidence. At least again, this is all, you know, I need to preface this. This is all saying for me, but for me, it was repetition, like gave me the confidence I needed so that when I hit those moments of, I don't know what I'm doing, my, my training, my body took over. And then the confidence that I feel like drives it all, like was able to still say it like autopilot. And so I would say that I'm a big, you know, there's different styles of coaching and skating of a few jumps here, a few programs. I mean, I did

back-to-back programs every day. I did multiple programs. I did, you know, I did, I did it all. And I think a lot of people probably think that the way that I trained was too much or, um, you know, but for me, I, I know there's no other way I would have been able to, to do it without that. Do you remember the experience or was the games for you a bit of a blur? No, I do. I mean, there's spots that I really don't remember. And to be honest, my legs were shaking. That whole moment happened. And then one thing I relied on for me as an athlete or even at times, I love being competitive and I love getting a little mad. And, you know, I was coming into that Olympics as the silver medalist from nationals, I lost my title. And there was a lot of what ifs around if I could do this. And I remember just like kind of getting a little cocky and mad in my head of like, Oh, I'm going to show you like I'm going to like that took over. There's a couple of things that you're sharing as frameworks.

One is, I'll see if you agree with this, rise to the occasion or fall to the level of training. What you described is I fell to my level of training. So my training was rock solid, maybe borderline over conditioning, over training. But I fell to my level of training and I knew I had that. So I didn't have to rise to the occasion. Okay. Yeah. I agree with that wholeheartedly. I've seen it play out so many times. So, and then the other that you're describing is, you know, this relationship with, okay, well, if this is how it's going to go, then I don't like exactly how I feel. I don't like exactly this anxious worry, whatever it might've been. So I'm going to index over to a chip to

anger. So we get one emotion at a time. Anxiety is where most people go into these moments. And you said, I'm replacing that one with a chip with anger now and that worked for you got your gold medal did you find flow state did you i think it's hard okay so i i want to learn because i think it's really hard to go from float from anger to flow so did you find yeah so so teach on it like how did you go from the only time i felt it truly and i don't remember the time felt flow state period no no this is like at the Olympics from that only time i really felt like i don't like. Only time felt flow state period. No, no, no. This is like at the Olympics. From that mechanism. I really felt like, I don't like, I, this is, I was going here because you said, do I remember? And I'm like, yeah, I remember most of it until that moment.

And then I, I cannot remember anything else in those four minutes. Okay. Literally nothing. So you're, you're, you're, you're, you're gliding out to center ice. You notice that your legs are shaking. And then what do you do in that moment? I started the program. It's still not, it's like just doing a spin. And I remember still, like, I think I was panicking. Music was on. Okay. Wait, wait, wait, let's slow it down. You're, you're gliding out.

You're if there's that moment that you're waiting for the music to come on and you notice that your legs are shaking at that moment. Okay. What do you say to yourself? I think it, you know, it's that, that thing of like, oh my God, I can't believe this is happening. And then trying to be like the things that I learned through, you know, with my sports psychologist of like not letting that spiral and bringing it back to like the phrases that we wanted and all of those things. But I think I immediately was probably starting to panic a little bit of this is getting away from me. Oh yeah. Like I'm gone. I'm like, this is it. I'm losing it all right now. And then I remember, hold on, hold on, hold on. This is so good.

That's the feeling, isn't it? It's I'm going to lose everything right now, right now. Like, and I'm in control of it, which is horrible. Right. Yeah. And so, but so there's a toughness in you, right? There's that, that you, you're going to go anyway. You weren't going to kind of glide back as a 15 year old, I can imagine. But so you're a fighter. Is that right? Yes. You're a fighter. So, so you, so then, okay, keep going. Then the music. Then I remember like coming out of the spin and I come around the ring and I pass the judges and the media are all above and I'm going into my first jump, which is obviously, you know, an important part here. And I remember in that moment, I remember saying to myself, like that angry, like you're going to show them, like you're going to show them, like you're going

to prove this, like you're going to do this. And it gives, it's almost like that feeling for me is like, you know, when you're running and like, or you have to go work out and you're, you put on your playlist, but then you put on that like pump up song that feels good. And then you kind of just like, you're like off to the races. It just like immediately energizes you and you kind of feel badass like that's what that thought did of like okay like we're in it and then I hit the first jump and I don't remember I it I don't remember anything else everything else just it just like couldn't have gone better. I came out of it once at like, like right before the last jump, I do the spin. And I remember thinking, oh my God, I have one more jump, one more jump to go. And like, obviously that's not what you should be thinking.

So it, you know, I was, I had that moment, but then I just like seamlessly somehow. I remember having that. And then I just like seamlessly somehow, I remember having that and then I don't remember. Then it went right back. So that would be, if we interrogate this a bit more, that sentence, I'm going to show them. I would never recommend that to somebody because it's about like proving to somebody else. And it's like, now you need an antagonist and like, but I recognize that in me. I totally recognize that like, oh, fuck this. I don't turn the blade and I'm being super sensitive to people that actually have, you know, struggles with anxiety, depression that are cutting, but, but I'm using this metaphor. Like I don't turn the blade inward. I don't think you do either. So your, your, your emotion was outwardly focused. And then that was the cue that dropped

you into automaticity. Right. And so, boom, it was on. And then that was the cue that dropped you into automaticity. Right. And so, boom, it was on. And then when you had that other thought towards your last jump, what'd you do there? I didn't think, I don't remember. I mean, maybe, I mean, but I have no memories of saying something that got me back in. I don't know if I was just like, it was like, you know, when you're in a dream and you're just like right there, like I just immediately kind of went right back and I was already on such a high from doing so well that it just was easier to just get right back into it. That's so good. But yeah, the, the, the anger or the, you know, it was so funny. It's like, I don't, I'm not like a, it takes a lot for me to get angry. You know what I mean so funny it's like I don't I'm not like a takes a lot for me to get angry

you know what I mean so it's interesting that I went like went there and it's also interesting that I liked like when I would mess up in the short program at other events I would get mad like mad that I needed to show that I could skate well in the free skate so it was like something that always did it did help me and I think like another thing too like maybe along the same lines as that is like I do believe in and maybe this is just delusional but like as an artist or as a performer or an athlete there was like there was like I always just felt like I had like there's this magic too like this magical energy that like only you can like bring so I feel like I used that like I liked that where I felt like even along the same lines I'm probably

confusing everyone but when I'm saying like oh like I'm gonna show you or I'm gonna to me it was like oh Tara you're capable of like overcoming this you know these horrible nerves or you're you have there's a magic in you that can compete or there's a magic in you that can conquer this which is like if you were to ask me what that is I'd be like I probably have no magical like but I kind of believe I did and I still feel like I have that. Yeah, no. So this is really important. This makes me sound crazy. People are going to be like, yeah, I can create something. Like I said, it's like, there's something unique about a, B and C of me and like, put that stuff together. It's like, it's unique. It's like, it's an N of one in like a research. So I love that. Where did that come from?

I don't know. I really don't know. But it's funny that when we started talking about it, I started thinking about that because I do think that I felt that a lot. Okay. So let me ask it this way. Did mom hydrate that or did dad hydrate that? Did your coach hydrate that seed of specialness? much more influential than any of my coaches. I would say, I bet a little bit of both, you know, my mom, my mom's this awesome. She's just always like childlike wonder. She's just like, you know, when I was little, like imagination and all of these things. Okay. So, so there's something mom hydrated here. Yeah. And what is Lipinski? What is your heritage?

Polish. So how are you doing right now with like... I know, I know. Yeah, I mean, we're saying that this will be, this conversation is marked at the time when Russia is invading Ukraine and which is neighboring cities to Poland or neighboring countries to Poland. So no, it's when you start, like, it's so funny. Like when you ask that question, it brings me out of like life because it's, it's like, obviously we see what's happening. And so devastating that you watch the news and it's, it's almost so hard to imagine

that this is happening. And then you go about your day and here I am doing this podcast that then it like gives me that icky feeling of, Oh my God, what is happening right now? You know, halfway across the world. It's yeah. The context shifting between, this is important as a conversation point because context shifting and being able to make sense of the world around you when it feels like it's upside down right now is really important. So being able to explore this conversation, but at the same time, hold that there's incredible tragedy for many lives. And it's a complicated couple of years we've been through, like the anxiety, depression, the psychological distress, the physical upheaval that people's lives are for so many reasons. So

how do you manage this? Because you, I mean, you've got resources, you've got opportunity. The pandemic has probably not hit you the way it it's hit some people we can in our lives that we know, but like how, how, how do you manage that? What you've been afforded? I mean, you know, sometimes for me, I, I say this to my husband all the time. It's like, I do, you know, sometimes for me, I say this to my husband all the time. It's like I do, you know, the first thing that I think of is I, my experiences when people say, oh, the pandemic and the, and what's happening in Ukraine. And, you know, you take the pandemic for the last two years and my experience is probably so different than, you know, so many others. And immediately it's that same feeling,

just like that, oh, like, you know, you try to do as much as you can. And, you know, whether I satiate that with, oh, I'm buying out some Airbnbs in Ukraine. But like, again, these are, you know, small little things that, again, are not making, you know, the stop. And it's not, you know, making the pandemic stop.

But I think for me, sometimes I just struggle, you know, you struggle with like, what else can you do? Or I never really felt comfortable complaining about certain things because I'm lucky enough to live in a nice home and be with my husband who, you know, didn't get COVID and is alive and healthy. And I don't know. Yeah. I think it's, this is important to have empathy and compassion and also be able to run your life to your words, your potential. So the re in 1980, there was this idea of like self-help and okay, cool. But it was missing the second most important part of it. Help yourself, grow yourself so that you can help others. And so that's a big part of the conversation deep care. There's an aggressive fighter in there. There's a truster in there. There's a community member in there. And you know, you too, who's,

I'm speaking right now to our community. You can build each one of those. You can learn how to trust. You can learn how to have deep focus. You can learn how to be part of a community, help others and dedicate your life towards something that matters to you, whatever that might be. That's available to every one of us. How would you add to that list? You were parented in an interesting way. And so you've got some insights that nobody else has because they didn't have your mom and your dad. So if you were to speak to parents and you say, Hey, listen, I know you've, you love your kids. If I was part of your family, or if I could coach you, mom or dad, these are the things that I would say, make sure you do on a regular basis.

Yeah. I would say that it's that push and pull of you know not pushing them towards something that they figure it out for themselves that they're gravitating towards this passion that they have and of course it has to be the perfect storm of you know if they're good at it then it's it's going to change a lot of things but you know not, but definitely giving them those opportunities to see if they like it, to see if, oh, do we need to try one more time to see, you know, do I drop a comment of, oh my goodness, you're so great at that. Do you, you know, you know, like I think back to the things that my parents said, I'm sure when I got on the ice the first time they were probably, you're so good at that probably gave me a little lift of like,

well, I like skating. This is great. You know? So I think it's like, that's that push, but without the pressure of this is at my parents' dream. This is not something I want to do. They want me to go to the rink. Like I never felt that. And then I think boundaries and having discipline, you know, I, I, they were beneficial to me. Those, those boundaries helped me, you know, it, it, it narrowed down my choices. And I knew that when I went to the rink that it was, it was time to train. So I don't think there's anything wrong in, you know, I feel like, you know, even now, like people probably are always trying to wonder what, what is that fine line of, oh, well, I just want my kid to, to find, you know, their inner competitor and trainer on their own. I think there

has to be some, you know, corralling of that and honing of that skill. And I think that my mom did that really well, where she, you know, gave me a lot of lessons and discipline and training and hard work. And then the rest just naturally happened because I really loved skating at the, at the heart of it. I really did love it. Let's talk about transitions for just a moment, because I don't understand. I mean, on paper, I understand you won gold and then you turned pro and then you couldn't go back to the games again because of that status. I have no idea why you made those choices and decisions, but many people don't make that choice.

And so can you walk through that transition and listen, you're 15. So I'm assuming you had lots of guidance, but like help me understand that transition. And then the transition from, from pro to broadcaster as well. Yeah. So it was, you know, it's hard to understand now but then I was skating at the height of figure skating's popularity like it came off of 94 with Tanya and Nancy and there was just so much opportunity so like when I was growing up I wanted to become an Olympic champion but I also wanted to become an Olympic champion because I knew that I could go on stars on ice and tour with Scott Hamilton and Nancy and uh Christy Amaguchi so it was a much

different time than now so if I skated now I would have stayed in and kept competing but then it was just par for the course you know I won nationals I won worlds I won olympics I kind of skated the best I could have ever you know I'm leaving all those performances and when you win it's sort of just at that time that that was the next step to go to. So it was actually easy. And it's hard to understand now because skaters and a lot of Olympians don't have that opportunity. So if I was in that boat, I would 100% just have stayed in and kept competing because I wouldn't be able to leave skating.

I didn't feel like I was leaving skating. I just was moving over to this really fun part of skating. So that was a pretty easy transition. And to be honest, like we, you hear so much about this nowadays of like Olympians transitioning into, you know, their lives outside of their sport when they're done and how difficult that is. I, any transitions hard, but I will say like, I think I had it so much easier just because of the time I skated in the sport and that I had this like baby step to go out, you know, it was like walking down the stairs instead of like jumping in the pool. Like it, my career, my competitive career was over, but I still had a career and it was still based in skating. So it was a, it was a very easy transition that I actually wanted.

The next transition was a little bit tougher, but again, I had years now as a professional and I was starting to get burnt out and it was time. So, you know, for me, my transition was a lot easier than most athletes. But when I then stopped skating, I thought I was going to go back. I was like, oh, I'm going to take a year or two off. Because at the time, I mean, my life revolved around skating. I didn't have friends outside of skating. I didn't go to college. I didn't date. I didn't have anything. So when I'm in my mid-20s, I'm like, oh boy, I need to start experiencing life. So I was like, I'll take a year or two off. I like needed it and wanted it. And then I never went back. But those next years, it was like a, I was

floundering a bit of trying to figure out what's next. Of course, you know, what I did gave me a lot of opportunity. So I was never without purpose because I found, of course I did, like, I found a little ways to do that. Um, again, this is how my mind works, but when I knew I was going to stop, um, professionally skating, I had for years worked with, with networks and we had my own specials and they would then part of that deal was that I would go on their, their shows, like acting shows and whatnot. And so I had this, this relationship and already this line of work that obviously I wasn't an actress, but I, I easily could do these things. But so when I knew I was going to stop, I reached out to like a casting director. And then I reached out to Aaron Spelling because

I had auditioned for the seventh heaven role that they had me come back on. But then I was like, I need this to be like a reoccurring role because like, I'm finishing my tour next week. And like, I need to, to go work. Like, that's how crazy I was that like, I couldn't even imagine, like I'm stopping skating to like retire for a year or so. And I, but I needed the job lined up for like the next week when I was home. So I think that was like my way of like softening the blow of, you know, stepping away from the ice. What have you sacrificed? What have you missed? Because you've poured so much in and you've gotten a lot from skating, from the, the, the, the art from the skill, from the sport of it. What have you missed? I mean, a lot of normalcy and in many different areas of my life, you know, like I kind of gloss over, Oh yeah,

I was 20 something and I was like still not experiencing life. Like I hadn't taken more than four days off in a row at that point. So that meant like, I didn't really ever go on a vacation for more than four days without skating in, you know, I didn't go to normal schools. I didn't have prom. I didn't, um, have a normal dating life. You know, I was very behind socially in so many ways, coming out of skating that. When's the first time you had alcohol? Oh, so that's another thing. So I didn't drink until I didn't drink at 21. I think I had my first sip of like wine at 23. And even then I was weird. Like, this is what I'm saying. Like the, the natural things, the social sort of life I led was so different that when I moved to LA and then

I met a great group of friends and then I started like my real first boyfriend was 23 and, and he was drinking wine. I was like, well, I don't, you know, I don't need to, why, I don't need to drink. What are we doing? And then like, I would, this is, this is going to be real shocker for you. Like we laugh about this now. I had seen him actually, you know, a few years ago, but he would get wine and I would sip it and not drink it really. And then like, sometimes I'd pour it out and he kept getting nicer bottles of wine each time because he thought that I wasn't liking the wine. And eventually we had a discussion where I was like,

I don't know, like, I haven't really thought of it. I just, I don't know. I've never really drank. I don't know what to do. That quickly changed. Is that what like bad girls do? No, I just don't think I knew. I didn't have social experiences where it wasn't like, oh, I shouldn't drink. I just didn't know what I, first off, I've never really felt drunk. So I didn't know, oh, people drink to get a little tipsy or to have this feeling or so I was never really getting to that point. So it was more just the sipping of this alcohol that I was just like, I didn't have enough experiences where people sat

around and had a glass of wine or people did, you know, that's what I'm saying. Skating did. I mean, my life was so regimented training or touring. There was none of that. Well, how do you explain the time that you're almost arrested? How do you know this with the, with the wristband? How do you, how do you explain it? Wait. So, so I don't even know. I don't even think the story is out there, right? Wait, how did this happen? So I was on tour and I was in a college town

and the stars and cast and crew were all, I don't know, 15, 20 years older than me, but this was at a time where like, I would go with them and I didn't drink. And then there was this one bar that had wristbands and I put the wristband on and then I'm sitting there with everyone. And I, I mean, I promise you, I never drank. I mean, we're talking about when I was 23, I couldn't get through the glass of wine. And I was like playing with the wristband. It came off. And then the guy at the bar came and got me and was, and took me into a room and had me do a breathalyzer. And they like, I had to call my dad.

They didn't arrest me of course, but that was, if this is what you're talking about, this is the only time that i've been close to them telling me like the cops were coming for me yeah i could just imagine i mean these big eyes like no no no i don't know i was so upset too because i was like oh my god this like how do i get out of this one now? So you don't, you don't break many rules. No, I'm not a rule break. I don't like breaking rules. And this is why, I mean, your whole life has been aligned with that principle. And then to have back to our first part of our conversation, Camila be out there with the rules being broken, broken. It was very,

your conscious was clear. You're like, this is not how we're supposed to do this. And I, and I, I lived my life according to the rules. Yep. And what's funny about that is it's something that I am trying. I've tried to in my life be more of a rule breaker because I'm, I have always been so by the book that in my like late twenties, I really tried to experience life in a slightly different way where it didn't always have to be by the book, which I actually like and enjoy. And I think I was able to do, um, in certain ways. So how do you get wild? Like, how do you, For me, it was just like breaking the rule.

I remember I like dated someone in LA for a while. And then the right thing to do was to, to, you know, stay there and, and heal and whatever. And I had gone to New York for Christmas and I was like, I think I want to live in New York. And then I was like, okay, I'm not going to go home. I'm just going to find an apartment and stay here, which is definitely not the way I like to do things. And I would have thought I'm running away from like, whatever, I would have thought all of these things. And this is just silly and impulsive. And, and I did it. And I had New Year's Eve. I moved into an apartment that I stayed in for, you know, six years. I swear I met my husband eventually. And like some, like, that's an example. Was that your rebellion phase? Yeah, it was. It was crazy. That was a 28. I was like 28 years old

when I was rebelling. Yeah. Right. Well, you know, I mean, either in like an elite sport, as we both know that it either happens really young because like the crowd is really progressive and they're feeding drinks to the kid that didn't go, you didn't go to high school, right? No, I went through sixth grade and then I was homeschooled. Most, I think most people know that, but like half of the adventure action sport worlds, many Olympians, well, maybe it's changing a little bit like homeschooling. Maybe, you know, like, did you graduate? I don't, I don't know.

Yeah, I did. So that was a good thing. My, my, my dad is, it was very upset about the schooling situation. So I never did proper homeschool. I had tutors and I was enrolled into my high school. So yeah, it's really, it's tough. So it's either really late or it's really early and it's usually not on a normal cadence to most folks. Yeah, mine was late, 28. And even then it wasn't so risky, but. No, it certainly wasn't all right so the yin and yang right the light and the dark you

over rotate on light okay so help me out you you know but i feel like where's the dark side oh come on i feel like though all of this is not the norm though is it no but it's no but it's still angelically light right and i And I don't, yeah. So I'm trying to understand the other side of you. We all have the light and the dark. And people that don't know the other side, I start to get a little nervous. Well, no. See, what's so funny is I always feel like I'm the person that has all all, like all this complex shit.

Oh, okay. Oh, so now, so now you use the cuss word. Sorry. No, but I do. I do. I feel like if you think about it, like the things I've said about myself of being like anxious or a worry wart. Yeah. So probably you just haven't really, we didn't dive in enough no we did but I think like the heart like the so the dark side I think would be all along those like I've never really experienced I feel like when I wake up I feel very like level-headed I'm always excited for the day to happen I've never really experienced depression until recently where I don't even know if, you know, I've not, I'm not public yet

of talking about it, but the hardest, the hardest years of my life have been the last three with, with something that, you know, I've been going through. And I just think like, for me, my darker stuff is the anxiety, this strange, like delayed world, you know, that I came into from 20 years in a really messed up sport, you know? Yeah. I think that probably the, the more, most complex part of me would be the anxiety, the, the worry. I definitely err on the side of being a hypochondriac, which is not fun at all. And that can be challenging. It's exhausting. It's exhausting. Okay. All right. All right. So there's this other side of you. I think the anxious side of me is the always worrying about something. And I am not asking you about what you're not wanting to be public with.

I'm not asking you that. I do want to know though, how you navigated some of the predators in your world. So you can create space here and I'm not saying it has anything to do with what you're traumatized by, or I didn't say traumatized. You didn't say that. No, I'm definitely traumatized by, or I didn't say traumatized. You didn't say that. I'm definitely traumatized by it is something I was not expecting to deal with in my life. Yeah. Well, if something's enduring for three years, my antenna go up, like, okay, there's, there's some sort of trauma that we're working through. And then I, so I want, I do want to understand that part. And I also want to understand somehow, I think it'd be a long fight if we had equal skills and size or whatever.

Like, I think that you've got a fighter in you. And I'm wondering if that fighter has a little bit of the dark side in it. And, or maybe it's a white light. I love all this. This is so fascinating. I want you to like analyze me in every way possible right now. So go for it. We're doing it. Is that fighter in you, is it the white knight or the dark knight? But what do you mean the fighter?

That part of you that's like, it's not fucking going down like this. Yeah. I mean, how would I describe that fighter? I'm never like angry. It's not i'm never like angry okay i'm never like it's not a savage it's not a no it's more stubborn it's more like 100 this is going to happen it's going to happen my way i'm going to force it to happen like my best girlfriend always says like that's how she will describe me she's like there is a round hole and there is a square peg and you will say Allie you need to put that in the in the round hole and you will not stop until somehow magically the the the hole turns from like a circle to a square she's like I don't know how you do it but you will force a

situation to happen so I think my fighter in that would be that I'm stubborn in that way of I will make it happen okay but then I think like that's maybe where that magical thing pushes that because I'm like oh I have the ability to to do it even though it seems impossible yeah that's cool okay and what's interesting is what I have been going through is the realization of like the first time in my life learning patience and that some things are so out of your control that like you cannot do that. Well, if you want me to kind of take it another level, you can call it anxiety, worry, whatever, but that, that lack of control is why we try to exert it in our external

world. And so of course you're going to meet this dragon. Yeah. And it's been like, it's actually so interesting. I've been going to acupuncture and I love it because she will always talk about the masculine and the feminine energy and how that I have all this masculine energy. And then I need to really tap into the like patience that I can't change things, energy. And I've actually loved it. Like through this whole experience, it's been really interesting. And like I, what I've gone through the, through, and sorry being so vague, but it is just something. Oh, it's okay.

Yeah, so personal at this point that I'm not ready to share. But what I've gone through, I feel that that is the hardest thing that I've done in my life. 100%, if I make it through this, it's by far the thing that's changed me the most, that's given me a new perspective on life. That's, it's just completely changed me for, in a, I think in a positive way. And when you zoom forward and you access the wise woman in you, and let's go 30 years in the future. Okay. Whatever age you might be there, I think in your sixties, but I don't, I don't know your age. Like, so is that right? Yeah. Okay. So you're up in your sixties. Now you're look back. What is the wise woman in you say to you right now?

Oh, well, I hope that she's like, I've got some good news for you. But I think she would say to me that, you know, I actually hope she would say, should preface it with, you've kind of, you're like floundering, you're all over the place, but you're doing it the right way. And you're just going through it, you're figuring out life, you're wanting to be open and understand yourself and become, you know, a better version of yourself at it. And it's like the way to life, essentially, in my head, I hope she would, like, that's how I see life. So I hope she would say that. But I think even from what I'm learning is just, again, like the release of, of the perfectionist side of me is sometimes like, maybe she would say that, like that freeing behavior will like open up so much more to you and so much more happiness

and, you know, so much more just living in whatever that moment gives you, whether it's good or it's bad instead of, and again, I think that's what I always have struggled with is trying to make things good. But, you know, I've even learned through what I'm going through now that even through the bad, I'm like, life's still good. And it's like, okay, to, to not be perfect. And it's okay not to have the answer. And it's okay, you know, to not know what you're doing. I mean, that's another thing, though, I will say through my entire life, I feel like I'm always winging it. I, as much as I like to have these, yeah, I do. I think sometimes even when I started commentating, I was like, I don't know what I'm doing. I want to do this, but I'm going

to wing it. When I was acting, I'd be like, I don't know what I'm doing, but I'm just going to wing it. So, I mean, I do, I hope that's not a terrible way to go through life, but I, it's somehow like, I just sometimes just wing shit. Well, okay. A couple of things. One is, and let's work backwards. One is you counterbalance that with high preparation. And then I think you love the athlete in you.

The, the, the person who loves the edge shows up without a tight script. And then it forces you. It's a forcing function to go home, to get to the pure signal and to express from there. And what comes out will be, even if it's messy, authentic. Yeah. Which somehow seems okay to me. That's right. Right?

And so I think you love the forcing function, all the planning, all the work, da, da, da. And then to show up, the winging it is actually the mechanism of the art. And so, yeah, I think it makes perfect sense for you. And then I also think that that tape that you just played about from your wise woman it yes really so so then i say to you um everything you need is already inside you it's already in there trust more love more trust more and love more trust more and practice that every day trust more letting go you know and then love more love more trust more love more i think it's those two things i mean this has been like i love this like i could just ask you a million i'm just i want to know everything about myself you are too funny you are awesome listen this is this is great i hope

i know we almost did a project together yeah earlier and then i hope we have the chance to do something i would love to that we should even think of something that we could do. Like, seriously, I'm so fascinated by all of this. And okay, well, wait, I have a question for you first though. So hearing all of this about me, what do you think made me tick or like made an Olympic champion? I think if I could take a pass at this, I think that you have the right level of neuroticism.

You are low on agreeableness because you think things through and then you agree if it makes sense. You're highly conscientious. You're open to experiences, but they have to make sense to the mission that you're on. I think that you've got this incredible ability to deeply focus. I've felt it in this listening that you've had. So you know how to focus deeply. Your ability to stay positive, even when it's hard

is one of your core crown jewels. It's one of the core assets, crown jewels. I think you have a high level of autonomy. So you choose the high level of efficacy, which is, I feel powerful in my life. Your parents gave you the first or the second, you earn the second, the autonomy, relationships are intact. They're meaningful to you. And, you know, you know, that you have something special and you've worked really hard to express those. So in, in essence, that's the way I've understood you. High moral compass, high work ethic, those other characteristics that I mentioned, and just kind of put all that together. Like the perfectionism and the anxiety and all of that. That's the neuroticism stem from that's like, that has to be the bad.

Okay. That was, so why would somebody have high neuroticism? You know, so that part of the narrative, I don't know. It's likely has to do with dad, not being home and the compromise you've had in the family structure where you went away, they were supporting you. Um, they took a large presence in your life and there was like this underlying current of like, Hey, it's on the line. I'm not going to blow this for the family. I'm not going to blow this for the family. So I'm going to work really hard. Things got to be right. Things got to be perfect. And I'm kind of the boss here. And because, and, but you're only nine, 12 and you're not, you are not suited to be the boss. So, so then that's where the neuroticism comes from,

you know? And so that's a unique, unique experience that highly skilled people at a young age have. And the other thing that we didn't talk about, which is it would be highly likely that you knew that you were in control of many adults around you. I was just going to say like thing that makes me anxious, even talking about that is like, I think probably when I was saying like being so young was like, when I would step out on these competitions, it was like the entire U S figure skating, the entire, you know, my coaching team, my every, you know, so many people I felt like I was, you know, they were behind me and I had to do this, you know?

That's right. Yeah. So that's where all this neuroticism, it's like you were wearing shoes that were too big, but somehow you were wearing them and like it was, it was working, but they're really too big for you. Yeah. Right. And so listen, you, you double down on the moral code. And so that's the thing that has been one of the great assets that's carried health for your, through your adult life is your moral compass and moral code. So I hope that's close. Yeah. Yeah. Well, thank you so much. This was so much fun. This was great. I've enjoyed every minute of it and I can't wait to connect with you in some other way and some other form. And so thank you for the gift of time, honesty, and, you know, getting

right up on the edge to the truth here. So thank you so much. Awesome. Thank you. All right. Thank you so much for diving into another episode of Finding Mastery with us. Our team loves creating this podcast and sharing these conversations with you. We really appreciate you being part of this community. And if you're enjoying the show, the easiest no cost way to support is to hit the subscribe or follow button wherever you're listening. Also, if you haven't already, please consider dropping us a review on Apple or Spotify. We are incredibly grateful for the support and feedback. If you're looking for even more insights, we have a newsletter we send out every Wednesday. Punch over to findingmastery.com slash newsletter to sign up.

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