Finding Mastery with Dr. Michael Gervais - USA Women's Water Polo Coach Adam Krikorian on Competition, Relationships, Sustaining Success

Episode Date: November 29, 2017

This week’s conversation is with Women’s Senior National Team Water Polo head coach Adam Krikorian.Since taking over the Women's Senior National Team, Adam Krikorian has been just about perfect.From his arrival in 2009 Team USA has competed in 18 major FINA Championships and come away with Gold in 15. This includes the 2012 and 2016 Olympic Games, 2009, 2015, and 2017 FINA World Championships, the 2010 and 2014 FINA World Cups, seven FINA World League Super Final crowns and the 2016 Olympic Qualification Tournament.He's helped the United States maintain a number-one world ranking for the majority of his tenure.Following the 2016 Olympic Games, Krikorian was named Coach of the Games by the USOC at the Team USA Awards. And in early 2017, Krikorian was also honored by the Los Angeles Sports Council and the LA Sports Awards by receiving the first ever "Extraordinary Achievement In Olympic Sport" honors.Based on Adam’s impressive resume, you might expect Adam’s definition of success to align with winning, but this isn’t the case.In Adam’s first year coaching the national team, they won gold at the world championships yet Adam described it as one of his most frustrating and least satisfying moments as a coach because the culture and relationships weren’t right.For Adam, it’s not about selecting the best athletes but it’s about selecting the best team and there’s so many variables that go into that.Building great relationships is at the core of Adam’s coaching philosophy and in this conversation we learn about the factors that impact these relationships, how Adam goes about selecting players and creates an environment where people can be honest with others and themselves.We also discuss why Adam’s competitive fire, which has driven him his whole life, can be both a blessing and a curse.There is so much packed into this conversation – in Adam’s words, “Mastery is the journey of trying to become the best version of yourself.” And I hope this conversation helps you get a little bit further on your own journey._________________Subscribe to our Youtube Channel for more powerful conversations at the intersection of high performance, leadership, and meaning: https://www.youtube.com/c/FindingMasteryGet exclusive discounts and support our amazing sponsors! Go to: https://findingmastery.com/sponsors/Subscribe to the Finding Mastery newsletter for weekly high performance insights: https://www.findingmastery.com/newsletter Download Dr. Mike's Morning Mindset Routine! https://www.findingmastery.com/morningmindsetFollow us on Instagram, LinkedIn, and X.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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Finding Mastery is brought to you by David Protein. I'm pretty intentional about what I eat, and the majority of my nutrition comes from whole foods. And when I'm traveling or in between meals on a demanding day, certainly I need something quick that will support the way that I feel and think and perform. And that's why I've been leaning on David Protein Bars. And so has the team here at Finding Mastery. In fact, our GM, Stuart, he loves them so much. I just want to kind of quickly put him on the spot. Stuart, I know you're listening.

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for longevity. And I love that David is making that easier. So if you're trying to hit your daily protein goals with something seamless, I'd love for you to go check them out. Get a free variety pack, a $25 value, and 10% off for life when you head to davidprotein.com slash finding mastery. That's David, D-A-V-I-D, protein, P-R-O-T-E-I-N.com slash finding mastery. Now, this week's conversation is with the head coach of the Women's Senior national water polo team, Adam Krikorian.

Since taking over the team, Adam has had incredible results, all pointing to a very thoughtful process of improvement. And we get into the weeds about how he has cultivated a culture, how he has amplified the talent that is in the team and the athletes that are there, and how he thinks about helping other people grow. But just as a background, from his arrival on the US team in 2009, he's competed in 18 major championships and come away with gold in 15 of them. I mean, think about that. This includes the 2012 and 2016 Olympic Games. I mean, we could just stop there. It's pretty incredible.

In 2009 and 2015 and 2017 in the FINA World Championships and in 2010 and 2014, the FINA World Cups. I mean, seven FINA World League Super Final crowns and the 2016 Olympic Qualification Tournament. That's incredible. That's a mouthful. It's like, where do you start with that? It's like a history of winning. 15 of the 18 major championships, including gold twice in the Olympics. So he's helped the US maintain a number one world ranking for the majority of his tenure. And following the 2016 Olympic Games, Adam was named coach of the games by the USOC at the Team USA Awards. So think about that for a minute. This is not only just a great coach, but it's the coach of the Olympic Games recognized by the USOC.

So in 2017, Adam was also honored by the Los Angeles Sports Council and the LA Sports Awards by receiving the first ever extraordinary achievement in Olympic sport honors. This is a gem to have the honor to be able to have this conversation with him. I mean, he really understands the mechanics of growth and helping people get better, especially those who want to get better. I mean, so there's a blend there. And he talks about the relationship and that blending between people who want to be better, to be great, their personal best and the way that he helps cultivate that.

So based on Adam's incredible resume, you might expect that Adam's definition of success would align with winning, but that's not the case. We talk about how he really thinks about success. In his first year of coaching the national team, he won gold at the world championship, yet he talks about that being the most frustrating and least satisfying moment in his coaching career. And it's because the relationships weren't right. So he got the outcome that he wanted, but the process, the relationships that support it, they weren't right.

They were off access. And when that happens, like you hear this over and over again, like it really doesn't feel very good. So we dive into that a little bit. And there's a thread with some other podcasts as well. Luke Walton, head coach of the Lakers, he talked about that as well. And he was on Finding Mastery 93, if you want to go back and listen to that. Shaka Smart, one of the great coaches as well on Finding Mastery85 talked about. Pete Carroll also talked about that in his thread, like how important relationships are to be able to enjoy, but not only enjoy the journey athletes. Of course you need talent. I mean, talent is one of the foundational pieces, but for him, it's about selecting the best team period, like are the factors that impact relationships and how he

goes about selecting players that have the certain right fit for the certain right group. And I mean, that's super insightful stuff that we pull back the curtain on. We also discuss why Adam's competitive fire, that stuff inside of him, which has driven him his whole life can be both a blessing and a curse. And I'm betting that some of you are nodding your head to that as well. Okay, there's so much packed in this conversation. And I want to hit you with the end in mind, because I just love Adam's definition of mastery. In his words, he says that mastery is the journey of trying to become the best version of yourself. And I hope this conversation helps you get a little bit closer to that in your journey. So with that, let's jump right into this conversation with coach Adam Kerkorian.

Adam, how are you? I'm great. Great. How are you? Fantastic. Thank you for spending time for this conversation. You've had this wonderful track record of success and I'm really looking forward to sitting down and seeing how we can, I don't know. I want to, don't want to be so bold to say, you know, decode, but that's really what I want to try to understand is like, how, what, what is the ways that you've been thinking and doing that have led to continued success? You know? So, yeah. Yeah. Thank you. I'm excited.

I'm excited because, uh uh i don't think we do this enough probably just in terms of i mean not that i'm was that no offense to you it's not that i was like extremely thrilled to do this but sometimes i kind of almost have to force myself to do it too is that right and that is no shot to you whatsoever. Yeah. Yeah. Partly because you, at times when you're a coach or anything, and you're just always worried about the next thing and you don't really take time to reflect and think about how you got there. And I'll say, I, I haven't been the best at that. Do you write stuff down or like, is it like ripping and running and onto the next and

taking as much as you can in the back of your mind to the front of your mind to figure out what, how to achieve and experience whatever the challenges in front of you? Yeah, I write stuff down. There's no doubt I do. Do I do it well enough or as much as I should? No, I definitely kind of always looking at the next thing. I'm right there with you. Like, I wish I did. I mean, I think one of the things I'd like to personally get done here in the next six to eight months is just organizing all my thoughts. Um, I've even started thinking about, this is something I'd never thought I'd do, but I started even thinking

about writing a book, right. Just so I can, I can actually put all this information I have and all my experiences, my thoughts and in my journey all in one place, instead of in a thousand different places, including a thousand different places in my own mind. Is that how you think about it? Like, like insights that are spread out all over the place, even in your mind? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. That's a cool thought now. Okay. So I want to say this, but like, I don't want to scare you in any way. Like I want to ask really hard questions because it's in there. It's all in you. And, but then if you ask us a hard question too early, then it just is like, it stops the conversation, you know? So maybe let's just start with something like,

what was it like when you're growing up? to give some context and some framework for you know the perspective of what you've been able to do right well i grew up in northern california i don't know many people would say kind of an all-american type family to two great parents two very loving supportive parents i was one of three brothers so i had two older brothers and I think we may get to that at some point, but that certainly has had a very defining for me. I've loved sports since day one. Okay. We got to go back to brothers now. Hold on. Yeah. So that's a cool insight that was defining. And so the third is usually really scrappy. Do you consider yourself that way? Yeah, I'm extremely competitive. Yeah. Okay. So deconstruct that word competitive. What does

that mean to you? Oh gosh. Competitive means, I mean, part of it means hating to lose, you know, hating to suck in anything, for lack of a better word. So some of that is, is a fear of failure. Some of it's just trying to be better than, than your opponent. Certainly a lot of it is, especially as you get older and you mature is, is trying to be the best version of yourself. And, and, and again, when, when you have two older brothers, I think you're just always fighting and scrapping and doing whatever you can to keep up, whether it's in school or sports or socially or at the dinner table for seconds. I mean, I remember multiple times, you know, I mean, a ton of times

where you just, you're racing through your first meal just so you can get the leftover spaghetti, just so you know, you're the one that gets and were they doing the same yeah you know the more i think back to it i think they were doing the same but i don't think they had the same intent so i think a lot of what they did was just to egg me on you know i think they wanted to see they wanted to see my reaction i don't know if they really wanted the spaghetti right but they wanted to see you sweat they wanted to see, they wanted to see my reaction. I don't know if they really wanted the spaghetti. Right. But they wanted to see you sweat. They wanted to see me sweat and fight and cry at times. And that is, again, it's like little tiny little experiences like that, that kind of helped define you and create this competitiveness. Do you have like

a moment right now with the spaghetti or is that just kind of a random thing oh i'm definitely thinking of a moment spaghetti yeah okay so what was dinner table dinner table i mean what was it like what was the dinner what did it look like well we were all tired as all hell because we just got back from uh probably a three hour swim practice and uh you know my mom was was a homemakermaker and my dad had just got back from work. And we were probably waiting for my dad to get back from work. So I'm already starving coming off of practice. Now I've got to wait for my dad to get back from work so we can all eat dinner together. And the funny thing about our tradition a little bit was, now that I think about it, it's just popping in my mind is we ate dinner before the salad. So I don't know why I'm thinking about this, but we ate salad and it,

and that was kind of an Armenian. This is my, my heritage. It's very European. Like that's not, that's not uncommon. Yeah. Right. And, uh, yeah, it just, you know, my mom would, would put down the dinner plate and it would be game on and it's, it's a rush, especially if it was a good meal know, my mom would put down the dinner plate and it would be game on. And it's a rush, especially if it was a good meal. And my mom was a great cook. And I'm thinking about spaghetti because as a kid, spaghetti was the thing. And just you're racing to get to the seconds.

And my oldest brother, Blake, was the one that would always seem to push the buttons a little bit more. How much older? He was seven years older than me. Yeah. So he made sure that he was done most of the time first just to get the extra spaghetti. I mean, even at times he wouldn't even finish the seconds right. So right then, and I think about it now, I don't think I had any idea, but clearly he was doing it for a reason.

And then what would your parents do? How would they respond? They would, I think they would always kind of protect me in some ways. You know, they'd get, they get a little bit more upset with, with Blake. Don't do that with Blake and say, Hey, you know, you can't, can't do that. And, but it didn't matter to me. I didn't care. I didn't care whether my parents were supporting me or not. The, the, for me it was, I lost, I lost that battle. Okay. So then, all right, that's a really cool thought to spring from. So when, let's say you had handfuls of those types of experiences, maybe it was every night for weeks and weeks and years.

I don't, I don't know, but let's just say there was some shaping experiences like that. What do you take away from that? So shit, I lost. Like I didn't literally, I didn't know, but let's just say there was some shaping experiences like that. What do you take away from that? So, shit, I lost. Literally, I didn't get the food. That's pretty primal. What did I take away then at that moment or now? Well, looking back now, how did that shape you? What are the thoughts that sprung from those types of experiences that have hurt and helped in your trajectory as a world-class coach? I mean, the words that come to my mind are just right.

Being committed, as stupid as this sounds, I keep going back to the spaghetti. I can equate it to video games. Just being committed to what you're doing to make sure you get the prize. Would the eating of the spaghetti? Would you enjoy it? Or would you just scoff it down and miss the process? You see where I'm going with this, right? Like, got it. Yeah. So that competitive drive, we can miss the moment is not to be esoteric, but right. Because we're just grinding to the finish. And then there's a nice analogy for life. We're taking spaghetti to sport to life, right? We can miss the moment to try to get to, or we can miss our life to try to get to the end retirement,

right? Whatever that image looks like. Right. And, and the whole thing kind of sucks on the process because we're trying to get somewhere later. Well, and that, and that's been a huge maturation process for me personally, even as I think about my coaching career and you bring up just, yeah, in early stages, it was, I had a, I had a bad temper. I mean, it was, if I struck out a baseball game, I'd be throwing bats and I mean, coaches would have to sit me down. I, I remember missing a pop fly and fans heckling me and me flipping off the, the, the audience and how old, Oh man, this is little league stuff.

So I was 10, 11, 12. Did you learn it or did that kind of come from somewhere else? Did I, did I learn? Oh, that's a good question.

I do think we've everything that we learned in this world or we know we've learned from someone, right? So I've had to learn it. Can I pinpoint where I learned that? I'm not positive. They're great people and very nice and thoughtful, but they have a little competitive streak to them as well. So maybe I learned a little bit from them too, but it's hard to think if there was anything in particular. I mean, I certainly learned it again just because I was forced to learn it. But that's been something that I've really struggled with. It's one of the reasons I played golf two days ago. And I used to be one of those guys who I'd hit a bad shot and I would just, you're not supposed to do this in golf. And you take your putter and you'd slam it into the green and you'd cause a huge divot, right? And I enjoy golf because it challenges me in that sense because I know it's not the best for me.

It's not the best way to respond. When I was a young coach, I used to yell and yell at referees and officials. They're just constantly berating them. And I'd have a ton of people who would always tell me, you got to settle down and this isn't the best thing. And I would say, screw you. You don't know. Would you say that to them or would you say, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, I would say to them certainly at times. Yeah. Not all the time. Okay. So your, your style of confrontation is right now aggressive. And I'm going to tell you what I think and feel from an emotional standpoint. Well, no, that is not my style necessarily. But in the moment that is my style. You know what I

mean? When I'm, when I'm livid, it's. So when the emotional center of the brain kicks in, what happens for you? I think I'm very passionate and very, uh, outwardly in my, my expression. Okay. And then how much does it take? So imagine like a cup of glass and if the cortical arousal, if we're thinking about that, like the internal activation is low, you wouldn't have much in the glass. If it's really high, uh, you'd have a much in the glass. If it's really high, you'd have a lot in the glass. So somebody is low, they need a lot of stimulation. As the theory goes, they need a lot of stimulation before it spills over. And then so for you, is your cup full? Or is it relatively when it spills over? It's outwardly? Yeah, are you saying? Yeah,

it's can be our it mostly is evidenced. It's always evidenced outwardly are you saying yeah it can be out it mostly is evidenced it's always evidenced outwardly but it's that we've lost the ability to contain or harness our internal energy okay like our activation and so when it spills over it's like i lost my shit right like i just i i'm spilling over you know i i always ask coaches like a joke with coaches, I always say, it's like, dude, I think you're leaking. Right. And they're like, I'm not leaking. I think you just did it again. And we start laughing, right? But so is your cortical arousal low or is it high? Well, I think I spill over. I don't know if this is answering your question, but I think I spill over without sometimes you noticing I'm spilling over. Okay. Well,

that's an interesting thought. Yeah. If that makes sense. I mean, you're so in it that somebody else sometimes will say you're leaking. Yeah, dude, relax.

Like, yeah. Is that still now? No, I've gotten so much better at that. I mean, how I love this by the way, Adam,

seriously, I love this because of, yeah, it's so it's, you know, what's really cool is that what you've done is phenomenal. And then being able to say, I was so passionate and easily triggered young and I've had to figure out how to be more together. And I'm not all together.

Like on the golf course the other day, like I wanted to throttle my thing. Well, and going back to that, I think what my response was, and it was always partly correct, was I'm just really competitive. And this is part of, this is what makes me great, right? Is this competitiveness and this burning desire. And if you had more people like this, they'd have just as much success. Because of that fire. Yeah. And what I was kind of blind to was, yes, that fire is great, but it needs to be under control, right?

It needs to be harnessed. And this is something that I've learned just through personal experiences and having you have a greater perspective, right. For kind of what's important and in the journey and those, and those little things that, that kind of gets you over the top. And I'm, I'm certain having kids and just not having the energy I used to, I used to have, I once had, and part of my problem was, and this was, didn't help me. I went straight from playing as a collegiate athlete at UCLA. So when you're really competitive and you're in there and you're fighting to being an assistant coach. And I think within two, two years of being an assistant coach,

I'm a head coach of men's and women's programs at UCLA. So it's very, you know, I, I didn't, I just did what I did before as an athlete. Finding Mastery is brought to you by Momentous. When it comes to high performance, whether you're leading a team, raising a family, pushing physical limits, or simply trying to be better today than you were yesterday, what you put in your body matters. And that's why I trust Momentus. From the moment I sat down with Jeff Byers, their co-founder and CEO, I could tell this was not your average supplement company. And I was immediately drawn to their mission, helping people achieve performance for

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reverse order and then I think I forget, like I don't get to the first thing that i thought of but so if you can help me remind i want to know like were you ready looking back were you ready or and if you weren't like what allowed you to take that job but i also want to go back to spaghetti like you know like did you did you did you enjoy the spaghetti while you're eating it or was it just a mad dash so you wouldn't be left without something that you wanted? Yeah, well, I mean I just worked out for three hours. I had a morning practice for two hours from 5 to 7 in the morning. I think I had to have enjoyed it a little bit. A little bit, yeah.

But I don't think I enjoyed it nearly enough. I usually would leave with stomach pains, right? That sounds like a nice life analogy. Okay. So if we took that and said, and then map that onto that kind of store, small story and map that onto your, your arc of coaching, or even as a man in general, the thought is like, did that stay with you as a life process at any way? Like, was that a general way of going through life for you? And then when, when did it change? How did it change? Like, I think this is really significant. Yeah, I think it, it was, it kind of became who I was. And again, I think this helped me do some things very well. That fire. Yeah, absolutely. Did it help me be the best? Maybe not, but I can't say that it hurt me

all the time. And it's still to this day, I've gotten a tremendously better, but I think anyone who's got just a crazy competitiveness will say you're always fighting that. Yeah. Right. I think you're right. And still to this day, I'm not perfect. I have moments where I just completely lose it and I get, but those moments are becoming less and less. And I think, you know, in anything in life, I've found that one of the key things to just life in general is having a balance, right? Kind of just being, not being too high, not being too low and just playing that, that middle ground. And so we're, we're always, you know, whether you have these, these weaknesses and you try to balance it out by certain, but you don't want to balance it too far or else you, you spill over and you go, go over the edge the opposite way. Meaning that if you pay too much

attention to strengthening up your weaknesses, you stop polishing your strengths. True. Correct. Is that what you're saying? Yeah. And I don't want to ever lose my competitive fire. Oh, there you go. You know what I mean? I mean, I can be that competitive fire and especially for, you know, maybe every job is a little unique and different.

I think our sport in some ways is unique because the sport of water polo is so, I would contend it's one of the most difficult sports in the world to play. And because of that, it takes a tremendous amount of work. It takes this really fierce competitiveness. It's a physical sport. Underwater is ridiculous. Oh, it's brutal. I did some work on the women's side for a little bit and it's like they wear two bathing suits. Right. They're under there really pulling and tugging

and holding people underwater. I don't know if people, if you haven't done it, which I haven't, but I've been kind of close to it. I think about when I put, when I put myself in that situation, like there's a lot of fear that happens in water for people as soon as they feel like they're out of control or being held under. And so like at some point, do you help people through that? Or like at your stage, they've already figured that out. No, I mean, I don't, I wouldn't say no one's ever that afraid of drowning necessarily or the fear of being held under although it's happened a couple a couple times

it's that's it's a temporary thing the held under thing just really temporary yes it's it's very very very temporary i i think that we are always talking about dealing with adversity and and i mean in our sport it's literally there. You always hear the phrase sink or swim. It literally is sink or swim in some ways, right? It's like, you're the reason why I love our sport is because of the difficulty and because you're constantly fighting adversity all the time. Um, not just physically, but not just mentally, but physically. And obviously the physical aspect leads to the mental challenges as well. Right.

And it's one of the reasons why I feel like a lot of people who end up playing our sport are very adept to, to having, to being able to deal with adverse situations moving forward because you're, you're failing every second, every, every practice. And you're just constantly fighting to kind of stay, stay afloat. And I kind of lost where I was going, but you know, it requires this like passion in this, this energy that I don't think can be lost. You know, we, we want to stay calm and we want to stay process oriented and, and certainly respect all the details along the way, but we can't lose that competitiveness and that energy that takes us to another level physically, and hopefully another level mentally in terms of our

focus and being present and, and all those things. Okay. Where did competition, this competitive fire come from for you? I think you're going to say your brothers, we're going to go back to that in some way. Where does it come from for you? And the second part is like, how do you look for it in people when you're choosing them and selecting them? And like, and then thirdly, like, how do you cultivate and bring it out of people? I know these are, well, sorry for like, no excited. It's, you know, I think it, it certainly my brothers had a huge impact on that, but it was, yeah, I don't think you get where I am just with one thing, right? I had the friends that I grew up with were great

people, but they were all very competitive as well. You know? So when we were out in the playground, it was, it was a battle. I mean, we were fighting always to see who would be on top. I had coaches going back to my swim coach, you know, when I was really young, he was tough. He had this great balance between this tough disciplined, but then out of the water, kind of nestling you in and really kind of mentoring you. And my college coach at UCLA was extremely competitive. So I was always surrounded by just competitive people that were very driven, had this burning desire to be better in everything they did. And that, along with my brothers, I think has allowed me to kind of be in,

to really define kind of who part of who, who I am. Okay. So that's like who shaped it and how it shaped. And then some people can have those types of friends and say, I'm not doing that. Like this doesn't, why are you guys working so hard? Why do you care so much? So what was the other part? Was it a fear of, I think you said it earlier, but like, was it a fear of looking bad? If you're not getting what you set out to do, like what was the thing? And it doesn't need to be fear-based, but it could have been, I don't, I'm trying to sort it out. I think it was definitely fear-based. I think a lot of it was, I think it wasn't so much, you know, because I wanted to be the one and the man, and I wanted

this, this limelight. I've actually never, I've always shied away from that. And I don't like that. I think it was more of this fear of failure and fear, fear of not, you know, I don't know, living up to, my parents never put pressure on me. So it, it wasn't this fear of living up to their expectations for some reason. I've always had this, I don't know if it's, I had my own, I don't know if I, from the very beginning, if this is what I'm still trying to figure out, right. It's like, have I always had these high expectations for myself? Uh,

but that, that drove me, uh, that drove me a lot. And, and, and that, unfortunately, fortunately it helped me in some aspects, but it clouded what was important and, and kind of how you, how you get there. And I think that's where I've gotten so much better, right. Is just having an idea of, I don't have that fear anymore. I realized that I'm so passionate and I love what I do. And I'm, and it means the world, this is, I'm going to be contrary to myself, but it means the world to me, but yet I know it's meaningless. Yeah. That's a really, that's a really powerful thought. And the concept that you, you as a person matter. And at the same time, you're just a speck of dust in the universe, right? Like a unique speck of dust, but like the, the, the vastness of what we are playing in as a

human is so big. If we lose track of that, we can become narcissistically consumed with that. We're the center of the universe. And Copernicus figured that out long ago, right? It doesn't revolve around us or the earth or the sun. So, okay. So then how do you select for it? Like, what do you look for? And this is a big, this is, you know, I say this all the time. We, we have, our process is grueling, you know, to make an Olympic team. It's, it's, it's a four-year cycle, right right it starts out with 40 people or so how many people are coming back from the last quad for the last olympics well we're still waiting on one to decide what what's what she's doing but i think we have at least eight of the 13 coming back

so maybe nine was it a young team or it was a very young team that's right it was so that's really cool for you yeah it's it's, it's cool. Everyone, I'm hesitant to say that because everyone always says, oh, you got everyone coming back. It's, it's going to be a piece of cake, right? Obviously that's the furthest thing from the truth. You have no idea what's going to come in the next year. Unless four years, let alone the next year. Right.

But it is exciting that there's going to be some continuity at least, but sometimes with continuity comes complacency and we can get into all that stuff later. And so we start with 40 people and we just, you know, you slowly kind of dwindle down and it's, it's a cutthroat environment. It's a very competitive, uh, we try to have fun with it as well, but realistically it's a cutthroat environment. It's a very competitive, uh, we try to have fun with it as well, but realistically it's a competitive environment. And at the end of the process, a lot of times the, the, the players really just kind of end up selecting themselves by, this is my take. I'm sure a lot of people wouldn't agree, including some former players who don't end up making it.

But certainly there's a talent level involved and intelligence. And that's pretty easy for me to see. But it's being able to handle that competitive environment, to be able to handle the pressure, to be able to handle not just the successes, but more importantly, being able to handle those failures every day and to be able to come back and make them humble you, but come back with a stronger sense of purpose and focus. Is that how you that's the process you go through? Like, OK, I got to learn. Like, remember that, you know, like I don't walk on water and then, OK, what am I going to do to get better? And what is the purpose that that I'm really after for this thing? Yeah, absolutely. Is that your process there? Okay. And then you said handle pressure. The handling pressure is, that's an interesting word.

Yeah. So there's loving, wait, I'm sorry. Handling competitiveness is what you said. I just added pressure. It's not right. Handling the competitive environment versus loving and thriving and relishing it and dwelling in it. It feels like you love it. Well, it's easy for me to say now I love it, but there's anyone who says that they love it all the time. I think they're full of it. Cool. Keep going. Yeah. And I think there's a lot of that in our world where people say, Oh, I love this. And it's almost like you're trying to convince yourself, right? That you love it. The reality is, yeah, I love it sometimes. Sometimes it sucks. It's hard. Yeah. And I don't want to be there. Getting tested is hard. Yes. And I think if we're really going to be true to ourselves and we're really going to deal with this, we have to be honest with ourselves, right?

And that is hard. Very hard. Very hard. And we have to be – the more we can even be honest with each other, then it creates this atmosphere and this culture environment that is really kind of open and I can get in. And now all of a sudden you're getting into like building this trust and this bond and this – Oh, keep going. that is really kind of open and, and I can get in now, all of a sudden you're getting into like building this trust and this bond and this respect, but that's, that's the key. Okay. So that's your process. Honestly,

with self first and then you probably have some mechanism that you help people get honest with themselves. Yeah. I mean, some of that is, is I, we talk all the time about self-evaluation, right? So it's as simple as, you know, I can sit there and I can give them, we have an evaluation form that, that, that, that I give them. Um, and actually I got this from the, the all blacks, you know, they do this self-evaluation and I did one before, but it was always on a scale from one to 10. And I found that everyone always put kind of six or seven on stuff.

That's because I coach women. If you're coaching guys, they put nine or 10, I think on everything. And, uh, we, we changed that.

It was one, two or three. It's just really simple. Like you kind of forces you. And now you could say, Oh, everyone kind of chooses to, but it forces you to,

to narrow that down. But we talk about self-evaluation all the time and honest self-evaluation. And that's. Is that a weekly, daily, monthly process that you ask them to evaluate formally? And then how do you do it informally? Yeah. I mean, formally, I usually before every season. Okay.

And then after every season. So they can kind of see, you know, they can evaluate where, where their progress is. And my goal isn't, you know, I do it in a very casual way. Cause I don't want to force it upon them to, they're doing it cause they have to do it. Right. I want them to do it cause they want to do it and they can and they they see the the value in self-evaluation but then that's formally but informally i mean i'm encouraging it every day i mean okay nice okay and then how many variables are you like the formal one is it 12 variables

is it many more like what what and what are they we have you, you know, there's a tactical component to basically every phase of the game. There's a technical component to every phase of the game. Then there's the physical component. And then there's the psychological component. So that's how you break those four down with some really concrete things. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it with some really concrete things. Yeah. Just, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it can be as nutrition, sleep. Yeah. So, and then they score one, two,

three. And do you do, do you do it where you do it as well? Yeah. Yeah. And so I don't, I don't share with them right away. I'm kind of curious to see where we, and then it opens up this great discussion, right? Like I do the same thing. Yeah thing yeah i think it's i think it's phenomenal yeah like whoa and then i'll actually triangulate it with another coach or strength coach or someone else you know and and say hey look at this look look at look at the three different images or viewpoints of of you right you see yourself as a two let's do one to ten real quick you see yourself as a two your strength's do one to ten real quick. You see yourself as a two. Your strength coach sees you at a ten. Right. And your technical coach here sees you at an eight. Right.

Like, wow. Right. And that's on, let's call it effort or whatever. It's a great discussion point, I think. Yeah. You like it too. Absolutely. I love it.

Okay. And that's part of it going back to self-evaluation. Yeah. The journaling is so important. And I was talking earlier when we first came on just about how I, I journal, but I don't journal and I journal pretty well, but not well enough. And that's, that's a part of, we encourage that so much. I mean, that's a part of self-evaluation, right? If you're really being honest with yourself. Do you have a format or do you just

ask them to open the book up and reflect? No, no, no format particular. I mean, every once in a while I'll give them, give them questions or we have a sports psychologist that works with our team and he'll give them questions or an assistant coach and, and we'll force them to, I hate the word force, but we'll, we'll have them reflect kind of using those questions as, as the basis of what we want them to think about. Brilliant. Yeah. And this is to help with self-honesty and then the ring outside of it is honesty with each other. Yes.

And then how do you cultivate honesty with each other? What do you do there? Oh, uh, that's, that's a, that's a tough one. You know, it's an art, isn't it? It's, it's, it's an art and it takes a long one. It's an art, isn't it? It's an art and it takes a long time. It's a process. Yeah. Especially going back to the competitive environment.

Because somebody's trying to take someone's job. Exactly. That's right. And so there's this fine line between people want to hide behind this, this outer shell. And the goal for us is to make it as competitive as possible, but just throw everything out there on the table. And, you know, it's, it's not easy. It takes a long time. We'll create certain exercises and things just to get them to talk in the group. I mean, that's the first key is like, you have to get them to talk in the group. I mean, that's the first key is like,

you have to get them. Sometimes as coaches, we, we talk too much, right? We, we think we know it all and we're, we want to be the ones directing and we are the ones leading the ship, but we need to, we need to listen more. We need, we need our, our, our athletes to be able to talk and voice their, it's all just random times, you know, just asking questions. And I have them speak a lot within the group. It's not always me speaking. Is that once a week or is that something that happens every day in meetings? It's every day. Yeah.

I mean, maybe formally once a week. Yeah. But certainly every day. Yeah. I mean, maybe formally once a week. Yeah. But certainly every day. Yeah. I mean, asking questions and telling people to respond and how they respond. I'll ask, you know, Susie over here, well, what do you think of that? You know, and you just start to create and it's very uncomfortable in the beginning. But the more they do it, the more they feel comfortable with it and secure enough to make some comments.

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don't play well and they actually hurt the culture right so they make the team let's play with this concept a little bit they make the team 20 better just on sheer town alone, but they diminish the expression for eight people on the team by 5%. Right. So now we've got like a 40%, you know, a swing on that. So how do you, how do you deal with those folks? Yeah. And that's, that's the stuff on the people on the outside have no idea, right? Only those on the inside see that stuff. And a lot of times the athletes don't even see it themselves. The ones that are being like that and the ones that are affected.

I think it's, it's all about education. It's trying to educate them, spending time with them and getting to know them as people, you know, the old, the old saying, you know, they don't, they don't care how much, you know, until they know how much you care. Right. Is, is something that's really important. I think I have to be able to personally, for me, I have to be able to connect with them at a deeper level than just a coach athlete to be able to help them understand that this is not what it's about. It's not about winning and losing. It's not about, you know, I always say it's not, it's not about selecting the best athletes. It's selecting the best team. And there's so many variables that go into that. So my job is to educate them. And it, it, sometimes people get it like that and it's happens fairly quickly, but most of the times it ha it's takes a long time and you got to provide them with

really good examples and you can't, you know, naturally they're typically pretty stubborn about it. So you can't necessarily call them out in front of everyone. But you do also want everyone else to know kind of how they're affected by. So again, it goes back to this such a balance of finding the right mix and how to how to deal with people and because if bad behavior is not addressed right it is a way to implicitly imply that it's okay we accept that right as long as you can deliver you know right like so that however if you publicly address bad behavior it can be really embarrassing and shame-ridden. So there is an art to that.

I think I know the answer because there's a political answer and then there's a real answer. And I don't even know if someone could answer this any other way that I imagine. But do you care about people? Do you love people? Or are you more enthralled with seeing them be successful? That's a, maybe a fair way to ask. Well, when you say see them be successful, what do you, what do you, what do you mean by that? I don't know. I was cloaking that with like, is it about winning? Oh yeah. I mean, no, I, I, I genuinely care about people almost to a fault at times

because so you'll keep somebody on staff or on the team a little bit too long because you you want to see them well this is where i think i've grown is i used to be that way i used to keep people on staff or within a team because i cared about it and I'd help. But then I, then I, I, I've realized that I care about, that means I'm not caring about everyone else, right? I might care about that one person. Or maybe about you. This is maybe about me. Yeah. Correct. Because it's hard to have this conversation. Yeah. I, so can you teach me how to have those hard conversations? How do you do it with them? Oh, gosh. Again, it goes back to I don't say I necessarily enjoy having the conversation or the lead-up.

I don't necessarily want to do it, but I just always remind myself, do what's best for the team and have the courage to be able to do that. And I know I can recall the feeling I have from the experiences in which I've done it before and the feelings I have after I do it and the impact that it's had. And so I kind of always take myself back to that as much as I don't want to do it. And I know I'm going to hurt someone. Um, and it's going to suck for me. I think that I know 100% through my experiences is going to be better for the team. I'm going to feel much better. They're going to feel much better about it. And, and so it's really become because of all those experiences for me, it's become very easy. I have no qualms whatsoever. Um, and as a young coach before, when I was always concerned, whether I was doing the right thing or wrong thing, yeah, in this, I I'm, I'm sitting here, I've had a lot of success in my little niche sport world.

So part of that success has kind of allowed me to be able to be like this. I don't know. I'm always been curious if I didn't have that success, would I be this way? Yeah. I think that that's a really cool thought because let's say that you were a jerk and then you had all the success. It's an amplifier for being a jerk, right? But that's not, somehow that's not who you are based on all of your unique biochemistry, genetics, and environmental conditions. And so that also is, I think the trap for confidence is like, if I have all this past success, then now I can be confident. But that model is in many ways, I think, flawed and broken because now I need evidence in the future that with success,

I can be confident, right? So success before confidence is a problem, right? Because when we're going into the pool or wherever we're going to go call it the olympic stage we haven't had success there yet there's a first time we're there well you've been there a couple times right twice two times two times yeah both pretty damn cool experiences for you no doubt i know and so but anyways for the folks that haven't been you haven't been successful in that moment yet so how can you be confident if you use that model? Right. So I like, we have to flip it, right? Like confidence has to be get or come before success or experience, which is really tricky. Well, yeah. And understanding confidence isn't a consistent thing necessarily. I mean, it's,

it's gonna, it's gonna, it's gonna move up and down and it's going to be all over the place. I mean, even to this day for me, I mean, there's times I'm certainly confident in what I do from a general sense, but there's times where I'm not that confident. I mean, but that's good. It kind of keeps me on the edge and keeps me fighting to be better. So if it's state-specific and it's temporary confidence, right? Like it happens now in 8 out of 10 and in another environment, it could be a seven out of 10 or four out of 10, whatever. What do you do when you're below the acceptable or that's not the right phrase when it's below

the target level of confidence? Like how do you manage or work or integrate to a more desirable state? I assume you're referring to how I deal with an athlete because there's, there's, yeah, there's me. Okay. There's you. Okay. Yeah. You know, for me, it's naturally I, I, I grind, you know, I'm a, I'm a grinder. So I put in some work, put my head down and I got to work to be better. And I had this visual in my mind now that I said that of putting my head down and working, which is not necessarily a good thing, right? Because it's great and in fact it increases my work ethic.

But by saying I'm putting my head down, it means I'm not aware of everything else that's going on. So without kind of losing that awareness. Put your head down to eat spaghetti. Put your head down to work. Yeah. Right. Okay. Yeah.

So then I think that it has to do – so work is part of it. And then what do you do with that little conversation in your mind that says, come on, Adam, please. You're a wreck. Whatever that kind of voice is. Like what do you do with that little conversation in your mind that says, come on, Adam, please, you're a wreck, whatever, whatever that kind of voice is like, what do you do with that? Well, I guess the first key is be aware of that thought, right? Just being aware of what's going on in my head. And that goes back to journaling is kind of putting it down on paper so I can see it and I can not just see it then and now, but I can see it in the future. Without humility, how would you answer this question? That's just going to be hard for me.

Yeah. Without humility, how would you answer this? That if we could extract on a day-to-day basis for seven days, the quality of your thoughts, right? And so we had two columns, great thoughts and not so great thoughts. There's probably four columns, but let's make it over something like, and then we could, we could extract or export that the, the, your thoughts and then map it onto one of those two, two columns. What percentage would be on the not productive and what percentage would be on the super productive? I think my thoughts are really productive. Yeah, I, man, I don't know. 80-20?

Yeah, cool. But thoughts are one thing. It's putting those thoughts into action is another thing. And I think that's something that hasn't necessarily come natural for me i i i think in a lot of ways having the right thoughts in the right ideas in my perception i think i've always been a very good reader of people and personalities and what's needed and what's not needed. But I haven't always been the best at explaining that, expressing that vision to my team and also just going with it and actually doing something with it.

So I'm constantly encouraging myself to trust my gut, trust my initial thoughts. And I've realized, again, through various little experiences that, that when I do that, we, it typically works out for, for the best. Okay. So then, so good, Adam, thank you. Those two thoughts that I had early on, one was about how do you define failure? And then were you ready to take that job? You know, what was that experience like? Can we go back to thinking about how do you think about failure? Because the other side of that coin is success.

But how do you think about failure? I mean, my first thought is just it's a normal part of life and that we need it. We need it to, like you just said, I mean, we need it to have, have success and, and we have to, uh, we have to embrace it. We don't have to like it, but we have to embrace it and, and learn from it. I mean, there's, there's for many times you, you, you learn more from the times that you failed and the times you succeed, it just forces you to reflect and evaluate kind of where,

where you are. Is failure about the outcome or the process or, or like a, a low level involvement on both? Well, I just sit here and say, it's, it's not about the outcome would be unrealistic, right? I mean, I think part of it is about the outcome. It's you want it to be, and I want it to be less about the outcome and more about the process. And that's something that I've learned too, is I've, I've gotten older. It actually, the first thing thought and experience that comes to my mind is my first year on the job as the USA national team coach. We first summer, I was worked for three months. We competed in a world championship, which, which is every odd year. It's the next biggest thing to Olympic games. And we, we won the gold medal within my first three months, two and a half months on the job. And it was the worst experience that I've ever had coaching because there was a

tremendous amount of infighting within the team. Half the team was, uh, there was maybe half the team that, man, I don't know, about half the team that was supportive of me, half the team that wasn't because of that, there was half the team that liked, you know, that, that liked each other and the other half like themselves, but they didn't like each other. Uh, it was just a, it was a battle. It, it was, it was awful. And I'll never forget the feeling I had after we won. Everyone would think that it's,

you're supposed to be super emotional and happy and best in the world, best in the world. We're the best in the world. You know, it only had happened I think one other time or two other times in the U.S. history. And we, I was miserable. It was the worst year of my life coaching. Who do you go to when to share that experience with? Like who's part of your tribe? Certainly my staff.

I remember at that time was my wife. I wanted to quit. I had just left UCLA. I was there for 11 or 12 years. I'd left it. We'd won five national championships in a row on the women's side, had some success on the men's side as well. I left something extremely secure to take a job that, you know, I was basically an at-will employee. And, you know, I remember emailing my wife from Rome, from Italy and saying, I'm, I'm done. You know, I want to, I want to go back to UCLA. I don't want to be here. Um, this job's not for me. And she, she gave me the, you know, you're not in Kansas anymore. Um, it was the tough, tough love speech, um,

through, through email and, you know, made me kind of realize what, what I needed to do and not that it fixed everything, but, but she's certainly one of them. My staff, we have a sports psychologist who works with the USOC by the name of Peter Haberle, who I am talking to all the time. And I talked to him more than probably anyone else about, and it's not about, I always joke with the players, you know, it's, it's, I use him more. So you should feel okay to use them. I use them. I'm saying to them, and he's great because he's, he's not invested in my family. He's not necessarily invested in my team so much. Um, so he's just outside individual, right. Who's providing me this really true and authentic insight that, and we've been able to just similar to this

conversation, we've been able to just talk and bounce thoughts and ideas. And he's been extremely helpful for me throughout this entire process. thoughtful coach and man is finding value in, uh, deep conversations that are, you know, maybe seem threatening in the moment, but really are meant to be the best supportive mechanism to challenge somebody to be their very best. Right. That's really cool. Well, and this goes back to what I said in the beginning and not to take anything away from you and what you do, but you know, part of me didn't want to come, but I knew that if I came, I would be forced to think and think deeper. And, and I know that every time I do that, it's, it's an awesome feeling. And the benefits from it are just so fabulous. And I don't get the opportunity to do that because I'm always,

I'm running a hundred miles per hour and I'm always thinking about the next thing. So again, just kind of forcing myself to reflect and think a little bit more is so important. I will not take it personally. I have the same experiences with people in my life, particular people and events as well. I know when I'm around them, they're going to hold me honest. And, you know, in some environments I can, I don't know, not be held as accountable based on position or friendship or whatever, whatever. But there's one person in particular, Gary, what's up Gary? Gary holds me accountable at the deepest level. And he just, it's just a fricking look he gives me. Yeah. Yeah.

You know, God bless it. Like like just don't look at me so like don't get to my soul so quickly and so um yeah and i know that but i relish in them yeah good for you gary yeah yeah what's up gary yeah and then also like you know intense environments whether it's something in surfing or something that's going to be in a you know a tough workout or something like you know like that'll get my heart rate up to knowing that I'm going to feel better as I go through it. But then maybe I could sleep in. Yeah. Maybe I'll just hit the snoozer. No, no, I'm going to feel even worse if I do that. Right. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Then how do you think about success? Well, it's just success for me. I mean, the first thing that comes to my mind is, and it's partly because of my experience at UCLA.

I was at UCLA for 10, 11 years, actually longer, if I include the time as an athlete. And you get exposed to Coach Wooden. And, you know, I got the unique opportunity and pleasure to get to know him personally and spend a little bit of time with him. And obviously, I've read a ton of what – and he's just ingrained in the UCLA culture. So success is a peace of mind, which is – Knowing that you've given your very best. Yeah, to become the best you're capable of becoming. And that will always be the definition of success to me, partly because of, but it's

true, right? Just trying to become the best, best version of ourselves. That I love. I mean, that's the foundation of how I work as well. Right. And coach Caroline, we've got this fun little wonderful business that I'm having a, just a wonderful time building. And that is basically our mission, help others to become their very best so that they can help others become their very best.

So that stitch is actually important for us. Absolutely. And now it gets tricky to like, what is your very best you know like how do you help somebody identify or think about or create that idea of what their very best is both from a macro and a micro and you might not have a clear answer because i think this is pretty tricky that's very tricky i don't think any of us know what our very best is that's the i think that's I mean, it's, what is that? We, we always sell ourselves short.

First of all, I mean, this is my, my perspective. Um, I don't, so in other words, we could do more.

We can do more. We can, we can, yeah. And I shouldn't say, we shouldn't say we can do more. We can be more efficient. We can be better.

Cause doing more, I think always means this part of the American culture, like doing a lot and working hard. And that's important, but it's not always about doing more. Sometimes it's not always about, you know, we always define improvement as being stronger, faster, quicker, more explosive. But improvement is also being more consistent over time. So, and then our athletes specifically, they don't know how good that they can be and how far that they can push themselves. And that's part of our job as coaches.

To help create that vision. Right. Yeah. And then what we like to think about, like Coach Carroll will talk about often, is like create that vision with another person until we can get our heads, both of our heads to nod up and down like, yeah. Right. You want to work on that together?

Okay, are we going to commit to that? Wow, you think that's possible? Well, I don't know. What do you think? And then we start to nod our heads again. Let's go for it. Yeah. Okay.

And then lay out the plan from there. Right. So, okay. Success, failure. And then, you know, I do want to get to like, were you ready to take on that job? You know, like. Yeah. Were you ready two years in?

No. No. Hell no. To I was a successful college. I was, well, there's two, two layers. I was one when I went from UCLA being an assistant coach to being a head coach, I was 24 years old and I was essentially handed the keys to two pretty darn good programs at UCLA. And no, I wasn't ready. Uh, I remember crying. I mean, I was excited, but I remember being by myself when I knew that it was going to happen, finding some empty space on the campus of UCLA and just losing it because I was 24. Cause I was scared, scared shitless married at that time no but I I was I married I should know this quickly my wife's listening um no we we were not married but uh I'd been dating my current wife since uh I think we were sophomores in in college at UCLA okay it was it was a scary time and I wasn't ready. What were you afraid of?

I was afraid of failure. I was afraid of letting the previous coach and all the former athletes down because the, you know, there was a great expectation. I was also at a place at UCLA where, you know, my, my office was next to Al skates. He was the men's volleyball coach. And I don't know at the time how many championships he won, who was the men's volleyball coach. I don't know at the time how many championships he won, but I think he's won 19 or 20. And he always loved to remind me of that. It was just a place where it was expected to win. Okay, so that was then the fear.

Yes. Let's go to now. Uber success. You've got that Midas touch thing. So what are you afraid of now you might say nothing i'd love no no are you kidding me i'm afraid of a ton of things so what are they now um and it's a lot of the same things but at a different level so letting others down yes, that scares me. Is it looking bad or letting others down? It's probably a combination of both. I think for sure.

Yeah. Uh, I don't want to look bad. I mean, no one wants to look bad, right? Uh, you know what? Some, some of the, um, uh, really risk-based adventure, extreme quote unquote, quote unquote, extreme athletes talk about is, um, it's far worse to go for it and get banged and maybe break something or possibly even die it's far worse to walk away from it than to go for it and get and get bruised right and so looking bad becomes just completely minimized right when there's some

real gnarly stuff on the line and And so I wonder if it's about other people or it's about, it doesn't seem like you've brought it up once, it's not about money for you, it's not about, so if there was one kind of thing, what is the one thing for you? What's the one thing that keeps me going? What scares you? What scares me, one thing that keeps me going or what scares you? What scares me? One thing that scares me.

Just not doing enough to, I want to say it's letting down people, but I, I don't want to say this because it, in some ways it's corny, but, um, because what everyone would probably, it's what you should um because what everyone would probably it's what you should say but i i do think it's a lot of me like i don't want to let myself down like i i want i i just want to get better and it scares me to be the same it scares me to it scares me to to not to continue to develop i mean i i've we take this approach i've always said this to our team is like you're only as good as your next game and um i'm scared that the the next

game and the next opportunity that i have is not necessarily a game but whatever that game quote unquote game would be i'm i'm scared that i'm i'm i'm not going to reach my own expectations that I have. So who coaches you? Peter? Your wife? Peter. Yeah, I coach myself. Yeah, coach yourself.

A lot. Most of the time. I mean, in my own head. I mean, all those people coach me. And I'm learning from people all the time. I'm learning from my athletes all the time. They coach me. You know, I've been around 14-year-old girls at a small Olympic development program who've taught me things that I didn't know before.

You know, so I just, I'm constantly, I think I'm very coachable and I can learn from everyone, but ultimately I spend the most time coaching myself because I spend the most time thinking about how I can, how I can be better and what I can do to, to improve. Love that gem. I think we are either our, we have the capacity to be our worst coaches in our life. If we're that way to ourselves and we have, if we're skilled and aware, we can become phenomenal coaches, you know, in that 80-20 thing, about 80% of my time I'm productive in my head. That's a pretty high number. That's really cool. Yeah, did you buy that? I was trying to think.

80-20, yeah. It sounds nice. Yeah, it sounds great. I think it's called the Premack principle. Is that right? There's a name for it. But yeah, so 80-20, that sounds really good because I think one day, I don't know. I don't know if I think, but one day I hope that we'll be able to externalize our inner experience to be able to see it and to get better at it.

You know, the technology is not there yet, but wouldn't that be kind of a... Yeah, yeah, it'd be neat. Yeah, I know. Maybe scary for a lot of us. Those themes, like those themes keep coming up. Like when am I going to be done with those themes? Okay. How are you doing?

I'm good. Yeah. Okay. So is there one word or a phrase that cuts to the center of what you understand the most? One word or phrase? Well, I think there's a few phrases that are in my mind right now.

I mean, we were talking about coach wooden. God, one of the things I'm sure I'll screw it up, but he always used to say no written word, no spoken plea can teach the

students what they must be. It's what the teachers are. Nor are all the books on the shelves. It's what the teachers are themselves. So, with that being said, it's and this is unique, I think in this day and age, you know, everyone's speaking, everyone's saying a lot, but it's what you do.

It's, it's who you are to the core, going back to that's most important, um, in terms of being a leader. Uh, the other phrase we use a lot as a team is being humble enough to prepare, but confident enough to perform. That was something I always talked about with the group. So we want to be, and I love the word enough because, again, we're not straying too, if you're full of yourself and arrogant, you're not going to take the time to prepare, to do all the little things and details that it takes to be successful. But at the same time, you need to be confident when you're out there and performing. You just summed up, I think you're maybe, maybe I'm missing it because I don't know enough, but those are, those two statements seem like your philosophy for growth and your philosophy for being. Yes. Right. Yeah. That 100%. Yeah. So those are, so those are, so philosophy is a fancy word for the filter that you push

decisions and actions through. And so for you, for becoming, it's gotta be, let's be humble and let's also be able to be confident. Yeah. Right. And so in that arc, we're going to progressively grow. Right. And then the first one was a john wooden quote which was about be about it right it's on the books it's in the experience have you read inches and miles have you read that book yeah i have it i have it signed to my uh to my son actually yeah yeah it's a great book i love that it's a great book so it's a uh john wooden book yeah called inches and miles and yeah that is really i used to read that to my that's a good reminder. I haven't read that to my son in a while. I think it's a good book for athletes to read at any age. It's super simple,

nice little pictures, fun little story. Yeah. Yeah. I think for any age, right. It's like, yeah. Okay. Is there a phrase that cuts the center of what you do the best? Oh, geez. What I do the best. I might go back to that. Again, this is all off the top of my head. I might go back to that quote, just people don't care how much you know until they know how much you care. I've always had a deep care and love for people. I'm a people person. I enjoy people. I enjoy the

connections and getting to know them more than just, you know, their athletic ability and their six, one, 200 pounds or whatever it is. I want to know them. That's part of what i why i love to do what i do and then is there a way that you've come to understand what gets in how you get in your way the most again i think it goes back to some of the stuff we talked about sometimes the competitiveness will will take over and send me down the wrong path that's a double-edged sword for you, right? Yeah. Like it's great and then it can cut if you're not careful. Yeah. The other direction. It's, you know, anger can kind of take over and I'll find myself, I'll find myself yelling

at the group or doing something that's just not, you know, you think back later and you're like, does that really, does that really, is that really helping? I mean, did what I just do, so I'm breaking a clipboard. Did that really help explain kind of what we need to do? And again, it goes back to what I was saying earlier, just about being able to communicate my vision. I think my vision is typically, I have a good idea of what needs to happen.

I just have to force myself to communicate it. Yeah, you said that. There it is again, showing up again. Yeah. People that can do something at a very high level, the challenge is, and it comes somewhat naturally to them, the challenge is being able to explain the mechanics of it because it just all comes out. And so it sounds like you've got this ability to see something, intuitively feel something, and then like how to deconstruct that to express it is a whole different skill. Right. Yeah.

Okay. How do you help people generate confidence? Putting them through shit. Putting them through hell. I mean, I think that's, you know, for me, it's about, okay, they need to set a goal, kind of where they have to have an idea where they want to go, kind of what they want it to look like. But then they have to be able to, in order to gain confidence, I can't tell them that they're good or they're great or they're doing this. They'll gain a little bit from that. But to me, that's just going to be a bunch of BS. And I see that a lot in our world.

Again, I see a lot of fake confidence. The real stuff, the stuff that's the most powerful and meaningful is the stuff in which you've been able to work through some, either through your mind or through some physical pain or suffering to be able to get to where you want to go. So my job as a coach is to kind of provide those things. And even at times, even create some adversity that will force them to be able to get through. Yeah. I feel like we could go on and on and on and your insights are ridiculous, you know? And so like, I want to ask, like, I want to get to one kind of, I think a large question, which is how do you think about or define mastery? How do you articulate that concept? Well, I think mastery is just, again, it's, it's the journey

of trying to become the best version of yourself really simply. I think that's probably it period. Then there's a ton of stuff around that in terms of how you do it, but the mastery is, is, is journey is going along for that journey. And again, just trying to be the best version of yourself. Adam, congratulations on all of your success. Thank you for coming in and spending your time and sharing your insights. And this is, this has been great. And so I hope that we've been able to, like, I always think, I always think this, and at the end it really gets me because, and, and also when I'm thinking about, no, it's just really at the end, like, did we do enough to celebrate your genius, to celebrate

your, what makes you special and how you've had incredible insight and success. So I hope we have, you know, it's not, it's not about that. I mean, it's been, it's been great because it's, again, like I said earlier, it's just allowed me to be able to reflect. I'll probably leave here with a ton of thoughts that I'm going to explore even because there's so many other questions I have embedded in like the art of your ability to coach at a world class level. And to get into that, like if you're open to it, I'd love to have you back and do this again. Always, always love to think deeply. Love, love it. Thanks for having me. Where can people follow along and find you and track what you're doing? Well, you can always follow our team at USA water polo.org.

And then for me personally, I mean, I have a, I'm on Twitter a decent amount. I love Twitter. Um, at water polo coach K that's where I get all my info. At least I'm able to stay. I don't know if I tweet all the time, but every once in a while, some, some interesting tidbits. So follow, uh, follow you at water polo coach K on Twitter. And then I want to thank everyone for, uh, follow along, being part of this community. There's so many insights and nuggets and pearls

of wisdom that you've shared. So we're going to slice some of that and put it on another podcast called minutes on mastery. So it's insights and wisdoms under three minutes from, from folks. And so if you haven't downloaded that, check that out guys as well as i want to thank you for being part of the finding mastery tribe on facebook it's phenomenal and then you can follow along at michael dray on twitter and then at finding mastery on instagram okay adam thank you thank you All right. Thank you so much for diving into another episode of Finding Mastery with us. Our team loves creating this podcast and sharing these conversations with you. We really appreciate you being part of this community.

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