Finding Mastery with Dr. Michael Gervais - Valentine's Day Special: Dr. Mike and Lisa Gervais on Love, Relationships and Growth

Episode Date: February 14, 2024

What if mastering love is the ultimate high-performance skill?This Valentine's Day, we're taking a deep dive into the heart of relationships with two special guests—our host Dr. Michael Gervais and his wife, Lisa Gervais —a creative powerhouse with a rich background in dance, acting, and truth telling.In this episode hosted by our favorite AMA co-host, O'Neil Cespedes, Mike and Lisa open their lives and their love to us—sharing the joys, challenges, and profound lessons learned on their journey together. From their initial spark to building a foundation of trust and support, they discuss what it means to be best friends with your partner and how honesty paves the way for deep connection.They don't just stop at their story; they explore the essence of Valentine's Day, offer solace and inspiration for those flying solo, and dive into their unique talents – revealing Lisa's passion for dance and Mike's unexpected venture into rap and hip hop (you read that right).This episode is a treasure trove of insights on building a high-performance relationship, navigating life's ups and downs, and the importance of seeing and accepting each other for who you truly are. Whether you're in love, looking for love, or celebrating self-love, join us for an open, honest, and vulnerable conversation on the art of mastering relationships of all kinds.With Fire + LOVE,The Finding Mastery Team_________________Subscribe to our Youtube Channel for more powerful conversations at the intersection of high performance, leadership, and meaning: https://www.youtube.com/c/FindingMasteryGet exclusive discounts and support our amazing sponsors! Go to: https://findingmastery.com/sponsors/Subscribe to the Finding Mastery newsletter for weekly high performance insights: https://www.findingmastery.com/newsletter Download Dr. Mike's Morning Mindset Routine! https://www.findingmastery.com/morningmindsetFollow us on Instagram, LinkedIn, and X.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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stay present and engaged with my thinking and writing. If you wanna slow down, if you wanna work smarter, I highly encourage you to check them out. Visit remarkable.com to learn more and grab your paper pro today. Love is in the air. Love is everywhere. Go ahead and grab somebody and hug them. I don't think you should care. Welcome, welcome, welcome everybody to the Finding Mastery Podcast. I'm your host today, Cupid, aka O'Neal Cespedes, aka the Love Doctor. This conversation for Valentine's Day is all about love and relationships. I'm very excited to welcome our two guests today, your usual Finding Mastery host, Dr. Mike Gervain

and his wife, Lisa. How you love her, it's doing? That was quite the- That was the intro that I've been hoping for. Thank you. It took a lot for me to do that. Now I can get back to my normal voice now. Yeah, we're good. Yeah, me to do that. Now I can get back to my normal voice now. Yeah, we're good.

Yeah, excited to be here. Yeah, for sure. I'm excited to have you guys here. Is it okay to be nervous? No. I'm a little nervous. Why? Well, it's the first time my wife is here joining us.

And, you know, when you sit next to a fire breather, a truth teller, and we're going to talk about relationships. Yeah, you know. Yeah. Lisa, is that true? Are you a fire breather? Oh, I don't see myself as that. I just see myself as, you know, trying to be truthful and find everything that's authentic and be as authentic as I can possibly be. So I don't know, maybe that intimidates some, but.

Whoa. Did I just? I didn't say intimidation. I said nervousness. That's good. Oh, God. That's really good. But, you know, I'm soft on the inside.

You know, Mike, I'm forced to side with Lisa. I believe her. I do believe her too. Yes. That wasn't an answer out of fear, was it? That was the truth, right? No, this is like, how long have we been married? 27, 28 years?

Something like that. Wait a minute. Hold on. Hold on. I didn't know this. Really? Yes. 1995.

Wow. And our first date was in 1998, 87. I mean. I was like, uh, math? Yeah, 1987. 1987. Yeah. Wow.

That's gangster. Well, let me get into my first question. How did you meet and what attracted you to both, to each other? So we met in high school. Okay. It was like not a big deal. He was actually dating one of my friends this is about to be so juicy so funny but um you know i just kind of saw him and it wasn't that

big of a deal but when we first met met like when I think one of his friends introduced us, it was something like that was divine because I met him. I felt him. And I was like, ooh, that's going to be my husband. Really? Yes. And I was 15. So I knew nothing. I hadn't had a boyfriend.

I was a dancer. I, you know, went to school to school left school went to dance class dance till 10 came home like i was not into boys at all so it was something that was like just kind of hit me you know we just spoke here and there he was totally uninterested in me totally that's not fair i was i was more interested i wasn't into like. We'll use that like not women, but like I just wasn't into it yet. I was like 15 or 16. I was way more interested in sport, you know, surfing in particular. So it wasn't like, I don't think it was like not interested, but then I always thought, I'm looking, you know, because it's weird to speak it to. I always thought she was smoking hot. Yeah. Like from, from the first time I met her. So like.

That's dope. Yeah. So it wasn't like I wasn't interested, but it was like. If you were to see those pictures of me at 15, I can't imagine that he was saying that, but okay. We should put one of those up. I'll take it. We should put some of those up.

Yeah. Can we do that? Can we put one of those up or no? Oh yeah. Yeah. I would have to look for one, But the hair that, I mean. This is 1980. The 80s hair was real.

Aquanet was going strong. Oh, it was. And I had like this curl. I mean, it was. Okay. So wait a minute. I got to ask, since you saw him and then you knew this was going to be your husband, what happened to your girl he was dating? Did you walk over to her and was like, hey, yo, listen, that's gonna be my husband.

You know what, I don't know because I didn't pursue. I just knew, I don't know what happened there. Me either. Mike, you don't wanna talk about that? How many questions do we have like this? I mean, I don't know. I mean, you know, that was high school love or relationship, so I'm sure it didn't really.

Yeah. I mean, I don't't know it wasn't anything dramatic or anything like that so yeah she just disappeared but i do yeah but i do remember like it was early in us dating when somehow you said that like i had the feeling or some somehow that came out and i was like that's what is that well i'll tell you a funny story because um i maybe it speaks to a little bit of who I am. So I went home and I guess my mom thought that, hmm, this is interesting. So my mom called his mom and had lunch together.

And my mom says to her, so my daughter always gets what she wants. And my daughter apparently wants your son. Oh, my God. I think is what happened. Yeah. And then I guess my mother-in-law was like, well, you know, Michael's not really into girls. So he's into surfing. And I don't think, you know, I don't think this will go anywhere. It did.

It did. It did. Yeah. So that was like, but I remember the first time hearing that, like, what is that? Like, I don't know that that type of feeling for anything. I'm not talking about romantic love or anything, but I don't have that. Oh, this is it. It takes me a long time. I don't, I'm not blessed with this, like something washes over me and I'm like, you know, it's more like I have to chip away work, you know,

and I'm working from like an image that I'm, I'm seeing inside the, inside the stone to chip away, kind of like a David thing. I'm not saying I'm Michelangelo, but like that type of bit as, and so that's like this great, I'm in awe of when she gets that feeling and she has it all the time. I'm like, Oh, pay attention. Like whatever it is about a person, about an idea, about a feeling of a location we're in. It's really a cool gift. So what was your first impression of her?

Smoking hot. It was like, I didn't, we didn't talk. I just like, it was a hi, how you doing? I was like, wow. And then, and then after that we started talking and I was like, oh, this is fun. Like she was just like had all this really great positive energy. And everything was always good and up. And there was just no bite and no darkness and no kind of heaviness about it. It was always just like open and honest and bubbly and that electricity about it. And so that was the early days for me.

Lisa, what was your first impression of Mike? Oh my gosh. Smoking hot, right? Yeah, he was so cute. He had like this blonde, long surfer hair and he had like this beautiful skin and he was just so cute. I didn't get into puberty until I was like 18 or something. Yeah. It was weird. My first zit was like in college. No facial hair, nothing like that? No.

Yeah, like barely. No, my parents still, my mom still gives him a hard time because our son now has more hair than Mike ever did at 15. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. This is her Cuban side of the family. Brought some hair. I've got it somewhere there, the Italian side of me, but like I didn't get it.

Okay. So who asked who out on a date? Who, I mean. Yeah. How did that work? So, so Mike used to work at a gas station. How about it? Okay.

He was 16. Little red towel hanging from my back pocket. Can I, can I, ma'am, can I check your oil? Yeah. Okay. Well, there's a lot of jokes in there, huh? So I would, I would make my family like, we need gas. We need to go get gas. So we would go get gas and he would like wash the like, we need gas. We need to go get gas.

So we would go get gas and he would like wash the windows and fill the gas. And at the time, we were living with my grandmother because my parents had bought a house and it wasn't finished yet. And so we had moved in with my grandmother because we had sold our initial house. And so it was literally across the street from the gas station. So we would always drive by when I would go to dance. I'm like, let's drive by. Let's see if he's working. So one day I saw paramedics and ambulance and I was like, oh my gosh, what happened?

And I see him like draped on a chair, ghost white. And he was pushed through a plate glass window and it had cut the artery in his arm. And so I was like, oh, mom, like something's going on. And so my mom was like, well, go say something. Like go in there and make sure that he's okay. And so I was like, okay. So I go in there as ungrounded and as ridiculous as you can imagine. I was like, hey, Mike, I hope you're okay. And

I see that everything's like, what's happening here? And like, I was just an absolute mess. And then I run out and I guess his dad was like, oh, okay, Mike, I think you've got an admirer here. And that was right before the holidays. And I guess after that, I had called you to see if you were okay. And then just like six weeks after that, it was Cottonball at school, which is like the Valentine's dance. And he had asked me to Cottonball. So wait a minute, wait a minute. Let's back. This sounds like a movie. For real. It's not like a movie. So we got to back up. all how'd you how'd you get put through a what what happened i don't know two guys screwing around i was in you know i was working at gas station i was like nine o'clock at night school night and it was me and one of my good buddies and we're in

there screwing around and one of us went through a play class window that's that's gangster yeah i mean i like i i don't i don't really know how i wake up in the morning every morning and i do a little gratitude practice yeah i'm not really sure how i got here like there's uh there's a lot of suspect decisions wow yeah i'm gonna pause the conversation here for just a few minutes to talk about our sponsors. Finding Mastery is brought to you by LinkedIn Sales Solutions. In any high-performing environment that I've been part of, from elite teams to executive boardrooms, one thing holds true. Meaningful relationships are at the center of sustained success.

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from whole foods. And when I'm traveling or in between meals on a demanding day, certainly, I need something quick that will support the way that I feel and think and perform. And that's why I've been leaning on David protein bars. And so has the team here at Finding Mastery. In fact, our GM, Stuart, he loves them so much. I just want to kind of quickly put them on the spot. Stuart, I know you're listening. I think you might be the reason that we're running out of these bars so quickly. They're incredible, Mike. I love them. One a day, one a day. What do you mean one a day? There's way more than that happening here. Don't tell. Okay. All right. Look, they're incredibly simple. They're effective.

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slash finding mastery. And with that, let's jump right back into this conversation. Okay. I just needed to know that because that was just so wild. Okay. The dance, the dance. Yes. Let's talk about the dance. Yes. Cottonball. I don't know, he came to pick me up at my grandmother's house and you know, I'm Latin, come from a Latin family. Everybody's there, my sister, my dad, my grandmother, my grandfather, my aunt, my mom. They had like this balcony, you know, and everyone's like leaning over the balcony.

Bring them in, bring them in. It was a moment. So he came to get me. He was nervous. I remember him giving me the corsage on my wrist. And then we went to the dance in his Mazda truck. Wow. So wait a minute.

Nobody checked him? Nobody scared him? It was on. It was completely on. I just remember it was crowded. And that completely on. I mean, they were like, I just remember there was, it was crowded and that was only because of how close they were standing. Yeah. And, um, everyone was nice.

There was no, like, there's no jerks in the family. Yeah. But it was like the, the, the Fuentes tribe is here. Yeah. And I remember thinking like, yeah, there's a responsibility. Like, like there's more than Lisa here. And it is an awesome feeling to know that you've got that kind of sense about your family.

Yeah. So it was on. I take care of our baby girl. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Like it was, but it was kind. It wasn't like the big uncle, you know, in the back, like make sure, you know,

like, and I better not fight. It was not that. No guns, no guns waving around. No, no, no one's showing, you know, no, i better not fight it was not that it was like no guns waving around no no no one's showing you know no no it's not kind of that it was just like a immigrant family that's like we are here too yeah you know like in a grounded way and you weren't nervous yeah no i was nervous you wasn't yeah i mean i was a 16 year old kid. I was, I, I, I was an ungrounded kid in that way because, um, like, I,

I have an appreciation for getting out on the edge and trying things out and figuring it out. And this was all brand new. I didn't know what to expect. I just knew that I had a black and white sweater and that, and I was somehow told because you, I don't know how we coordinated that. I don't know.

Was that luck or did you? I don't know. It was. So my dress was a black and white sweetheart dress with like little polka dot mini skirt. And he showed up in a black sweater with little white polka dots. Like we completely matched. I was like, this, this actually fits, right. This works. And so, um, yeah, so it was like, that was the first kind of date. Yeah. And,. And I mean, that literally is 30 some years ago, like today. Oh, yeah. Right. Do you guys remember every moment of that date?

I mean, from the first dance? No, no, no, no. I remember feeling remember the feeling with it, which is like there was a feeling of fitting. Yeah. Yeah. But but I didn't I didn't date anyone, like really. I had one other date before, or one other girlfriend like that.

But it was different. It just felt like a fit. Okay, so after that, right? After that, was there, did you just organically agree, okay, we're together? Or did somebody say, hey, we know? Yeah, how did that work?

Gosh, I don't really know. I mean, we're together or did somebody say hey we know uh yeah how did that work gosh i don't really know yeah i mean we were together and we um you know it was like so innocent right i mean i was 15 like i was never had a boyfriend i had never been kissed like i was as green as you can be yeah well it almost sounds like it's not real but it is this is our life yeah yeah so and then um we were together and then he wanted a break we broke up you wanted a break mike come on there's a tv show about this somewhere right the friends episode yeah right yeah but you wanted a break so he just came to you and said you you know, this ain't really working out. Yeah. And I was devastated. You did it out of being nervous. No, right now I'm nervous. Oh, no.

Yo, listen, Lisa, I'm nervous. I don't know if this thing is going to work out. No, it's not that. Don't worry, Mike. I got you. I've got you. Okay. Trust me. Yeah, thank you. Okay. So Lisa, I'm going to need you to talk to me about when he asked for a break. But Lisa, I don't want you to put Mike out there because I got you. I'll get that. Trust me. Yeah, thank you. Okay, so Lisa, I'm going to need you to talk to me about when he asked for a break. But Lisa, I don't want you to put Mike out there because I got Mike.

Yes, I've got his back. Okay, we got your back. She has for 30 years. Yeah, no, he just wanted a break. I get it. If like I see our son, he's 15. If he wanted a break, I'd be like, take your break, dude. But like I was like devastated

like i was like so heartbroken and then this is where my family like huddles around me they're like you know what he doesn't know what he's missing and you're better than him you know that's just them trying to pump me up. And they were really good. They were supportive. They said, you go about your business now. You do not pine for him. Yeah. You need to stand up and you need to get yourself moving and get yourself going. Because you know what?

You're 15. You can't be wallowing in this crap. And then I saw her talking to someone. Yes. Didn't work out right for him. You know? So I, like,

I, I didn't like it. Yeah. You know? So that's a weird thing. Cause I'm, I don't, it's probably jealousy, you know?

I mean, what else is it? But like, it was a weird thing to that idea that sometimes you don't know what you have until you don't have it that idea but i saw her talking to another guy i was like holy shit like that that ought to be me like i don't i didn't like that feeling and so um it was a nice i think that that was a really important moment for me yeah yeah that's so funny what, why does it take that for us to understand?

Why, why does it, I mean, we, we act on it. Obviously you acted on it, but yeah. I mean, I think at that,

at that age, I definitely did so young. I didn't know, you know, I didn't know what good was. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't,

you know, and so, um, I feel like I'm, I don't know, I should default to you. Like I'm way better at that now. Like,

like knowing how to cherish something. Yeah. I'm better at it now. I don't, I'm not saying I'm, I don't know, I should default to you. Like I'm way better at that now. Like knowing how to cherish something. I'm better at it now. I don't, I'm not saying I'm world's best, like, but I'm better at it now than I've ever been. Yeah. I mean, we were so young, but I had like that divine whatever in me. Cause I was like, no, no, no,

this isn't what's supposed to happen. Like there was, so I was talking to someone, but. Placeholder. Yeah, yeah. Completely and totally, because as soon as he came back, I literally left the guy at the tree. I was like, let's go.

Wow. It was a tree. It was a tree. It was a tree. Yeah. At a, like a party. You know, a high school party. Cold bloody, but I like that.

It's just. It was pretty cold. You know, Jesus. Oh God, the innocence of it all. The innocence of it all. We haven't talked about this for. Decades. Oh, God, the innocence of it all. The innocence of it all. We haven't talked about this for. Decades. Yeah, we're innocent.

I can go back right to that feeling of, like, being a little bit nervous, but also, like, oh, and walking up and being like, hey, Lisa. And then you look at the guy and, like, and I was like, yeah, I don't know. Do you want to talk? If something is. And you're like, yeah, okay. Did know. Do you want to go talk? If something is. And you're like, yeah, okay. Did you flex on him a little bit, turn around and be like, yeah, I did.

Talk to the tree. Talk to the tree. Get to the tree. Well, he was like, that was his vibe back then. This guy fought with everything and everyone. Oh, for real? For real. He would fight like nothing

I've ever seen before. I know. You would not know that about me. Wow. You want to talk about that a little bit? No, no. It was a long time ago. Yeah. Oh, God. We don't have to talk about it unless you want to. Yeah. I was just an anxious kid that didn't know how to deal with that emotion.

So it came out as anger. Like, quick to temper. So it's a bummer. It's reasonable to say that perhaps, maybe as you were walking away with Lisa, you turned around a little bit and said, man, talk to the tree. Pardon me. Probably.

Probably. Okay. All right. Okay. Let me be professional here. All right. I need you guys to be professional here. All right. I need you guys to share a memorable moment from your early days together that you believe set the tone for your relationship.

Well, I think that breakup kind of set the tone a little bit in it being a little bit more serious. Yeah. Right. The stakes got real because like the ticking for granted piece. Yeah. Something early that set the tone i know i know one is that she was a dancer really good dancer yeah and this actually goes both ways i

i've never had this thought before so i would go i my thing was surfing as soon as it get dark you know call it eight o'clock you know in southern california um i'm running to el poyo loco or someplace like that to grab a little food. And I don't know why I just plugged in, but that was the spot I was going to a lot. And then I'd run up to watch her dance. So now I'm 16 watching her through this, like this little kind of waiting room, through this large window, watching her like do her shanties or whatever. Is that right?

Sashays. Sashay. Yeah. Shantay is a little different. I was watching her do a shantays or whatever. Is that right? Sashays. Sashay. Yeah. Sashay. Shantays. Shantays a little different. I was watching her do a shantay. Shantay. Nah, Mike.

You got the wrong one, bro. Sorry, Lisa. I'm watching her do her things across and I'm like, I was just like, I loved every bit of it. Yeah. And so I would watch,

you know, her do her thing. But parallel path path i'd be surfing and there was this um hill and you have to walk down i don't know uh two football fields to get to the ocean and at four o'clock in the afternoon and i'd look up or even like 2 30 when we're supposed to be in class and look up and her car is sitting there and she's just hanging out watching me and so it was like this thinking about now the way that you support me and I support you, it was already there. It was just like loving watching her do her thing. And then her,

I can't speak for you, but I'm assuming that's why you, you know, so that idea and look, it's not, our relationship is enduring and not perfect. Like we've been through lots of twists and turns. And so I don't want to paint a picture that it's a hundred percent bliss. It's been really hard in many ways, but that, that has stayed true over the years. And it's actually one of my biggest sources of regret, which I'm sure we'll get into. But that idea that like, I loved watching you do your thing. And it was awesome to look up and see you like, just see that red car of yours.

And like knowing that you were just hanging out, watching me do my thing was really pretty cool. Listening to the both of you, listening to your backstory, your origin story. I think it's refreshing because in the world we live in now of instant gratification or having the ability to be like no you ain't really working out let me go to the next oh you ain't really working out let me go

to the next and so on and so on and so on i'm not kidding when i say this sounds like a movie you know something that you just script and it sounds fantastical it shouldn't sound fantastical to us right because ideally we would all like to have experienced what you guys have experienced. I don't know. You know, yes and I would do because, so we've got a 15 year old son and I'm not sure that I would hope that he finds his life partner at age 15, 16. Right? Like that's, there's a real challenge in that. I love it. Yeah. I love that we met in, in impurity and innocence. And like all of that is,

I think has been part of the, the broth of our, our relationship. It's been really good. We can say that now because we're on the other side of some real shit that we had to go through. Yes. Right.

Because I think it's, there's so much growth that happens in so many stages that to be able to grow together, but separate is really difficult. And we grew so close together that it's almost like our roots were twined as opposed to grounded, separate individual roots, strong trunk, and the branches touching, you know, up in the skyline. That's what an image of a really healthy relationship feels like but we had we had our our roots wrapped around each other yeah and that that individuation required some separation and that pulling apart the roots um was really hard and necessary

right for sure so that So those are important words, individuation and separation, so that you can be intimately linked and together. Yeah. I'm sorry. This is very rude of me. My phone is going off here. Hold on one second.

I'm sorry. I'm not buying any of this. I'm not selling this very well, am I? Yeah, no, you're not. Well, Donna. Hi, Mom, hi, Dad. The question I have for you is how were you able to keep your relationship together throughout high school

and after that? Love you. Yeah. So sweet. I wanna know that too, so just let you describe it. Okay, so what was the question? No, no, hold on. Because I love him i know i know

without even looking at what's happening behind your eyes i can play it again let me play it again yeah what was the question how did we do it how did you do it how did you yeah i don't even know i honestly do think it was like divine intervention. Yeah. I really do. Like I've always felt like it was something deeper and not of this world that kept pulling us back together. Yeah. So I don't even know because, you know, it was hard for a long time and different points of our relationship. So I would say that I would say God definitely had his hand in our relationship and it was probably to have Grayson. Wow. Ditto. I mean, I don't know another thing to say other than like

um i could point to a whole set of like skills that we both have you know but it starts with this ability to feel what the other person's feeling um and she had to teach that to me i didn't i didn't i didn't come into the relationship very skilled there and so I'm just watching you kind of feel all of it now there's just been so much good that's come from the work

that we've done, a real celebration I think is pointing to the work right? Yeah, and I think being you know we are different people. We go about things differently, but at our core, like what's just in the moment because what runs deeper is that this person is like my person. He is my soulmate. So regardless of anything we go through, it doesn't matter because the bigger picture is that our

souls are forever connected. And that's really how I feel. Okay. Quick pause here to share some of the sponsors of this conversation. Finding Mastery is brought to you by Momentous. When it comes to high performance, whether you're leading a team, raising a family, pushing physical limits, or simply trying to be better today than you were yesterday, what you put in your body matters. And that's why I trust Momentus. From the moment I sat down with Jeff Byers, their co-founder and CEO, I could tell this was not your average supplement company. And I was immediately drawn to their mission, helping people achieve performance for life. And to do that,

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How has your understanding and your perspective of love evolved? Like you saying there's times when you've been like, I've had it. Let me try to give you the best example I can give you. If, was there ever a time when you were like, I've had it and then you really really meant it. And you said it like 10 times. You're like, I mean it, I'm tired of your ass. And then it went from, I'm tired of your ass too. I can probably put up with you too. No, I haven't had it. I feel like I've had it, but I haven't had it. I've been there before. Yeah, no, I had it at 30. Yeah. So we had already been married seven or eight years. And, you know, I mean, we were young.

We were really young when we got together. And I was wanting to go in a direction that scared him. And he, you know, was holding on, not wanting me to go in that direction because he was afraid. And there was just a lot of turmoil within me because I was like, I really want to do this, but I don't want to leave this person. And then finally at 30, I was like, I can't do this anymore. This is just too much. And I'm not happy.

And I feel like I'm too um restricted and so I said you have to leave because I can't do this and he left and he moved out and um well this was not it wasn't that easy no it wasn't that it wasn't like okay see you later it was like so what was she was going she was moving from um from dance to acting and the roles that she was up for to be like more concrete was the leading lady stuff which meant like romance with a leading man and as a i don't know 20 some year old dude i was like i ain't flying i don't i don't get it no no and so dude. I was like, I ain't flying. I don't, I don't get it. No, no. And so, okay. Okay.

Okay. It's fine. Like, but there was just tension and it wasn't like, Hey, go get it. And I don't even know now be completely honest. If she was like, Hey, listen, I got, I'm going to go off of this. This thing landed in my lap and me and Brad Pitt are going to be rolled up in bed. There's going to be these amazing scenes. And like, I don't think you should come watch. I don't, I don't know. I don't know. Like, I think I have a

lot of respect for somebody that can, but then I have this other thought, like maybe they don't really care. And, or maybe it's, I'm just really immature. I like, there's a part of me that this is my deep deepest, maybe only regret that I really have in my life is that I didn't have the wherewithal to say, "'Follow your dream, get it, I got your back. "'It's hard for me, but I'm here for you.'" Which she has done for me full writ. And so then it was, so then we'll go back to the bedroom that we're having a conversation,

she's like, you gotta go. I was like, no, no, we'll figure it out. She's like, you got to go. I was like, no, no, we'll figure it out. She says, you said that before. And so it,

so there was, there was, it wasn't like I just wanted to go. Cause I know that separation is the first step to divorce. And this was, this was my partner. And I was selfish. I was the one that was scared.

I was the one unsupportive and, and almost like talking out of both sides of my mouth, like supportive, but not supportive. So she would go out on roles, but all this tension when she was going for the role. And you can't go kind of animate another character or, you know, do the art if you've got this tension about what is my kind of thing. So I fucked it up big time and and i i still say that with like this idea of regret is not a way that i want to go through life because i wouldn't be and we wouldn't be who we are without that situation without that tension we probably needed some version of this to knock off the calcium to get down into the purity of the thing.

We went to therapy. Yeah. A lot. A lot of therapy. And it was really great because – and our therapist was so good. Her name was Nancy. And she just – She was a wise woman.

Yeah, she really was. And she – Highly trained and like incredibly wise yeah and what she gave me was time to just be because i always feel like we need to solve this now we need to do this now we need to move on to the next thing and she was like no just sit in whatever it is that you're feeling, going through. And she really slowed everything down. And then we were in therapy and that really was a turning moment, I think, where then we were really locked. We were like, at least in my mind, because I can't speak for him, but like for me, it was like, like I'm in it for life.

Yeah. Like regardless. And you feel that. You feel that. I feel that. Like I felt that, you know, and there's like this, like an incredible feeling when you know that that person has your back, is in it with you forever. And like that is one of the greatest gifts you've ever given me.

You know, like, I got you. And so if I'm not careful, I'm going to be like falling into a thousand pieces here, you know, of all the emotion I feel with that. But I want to go back to that. So I called, it was about a month after, and she was in like, she was in a dark place and I was scared.

So we separated. But you're still staying in contact? No. She wouldn't take my call. Ah, okay. Is that right? Is that how it went? At the beginning.

And then we got into therapy. Yeah, that's the point I was going to get to. I called and I said, listen, just one session. And she goes, I'm done. I'm telling you. I love you. You're a good person. I just don't.

I can't be me. And I can't do this anymore. And the line that killed me, the line like was written, the thing that you said to me, that was like, you said it when we're in the bedroom, having that, that like moment of separation or not, is you said, as your best friend, you have to listen to me. I can't do this. I was like, holy fuck. Okay. So then about a month passes and I'm trying, I'm calling and she's like, I'm going to take my calls. And so I said, just one session. She goes, not into it. Fine. Like I just kept kind of badgering her about it. Like, fine. So we show up and her full Latina energy, my Italian Irish roots, it was the first 15 minutes in,

do you remember this? The first 15 minutes and the fever pitch was on. And Nancy, the psychologist or a therapist goes like, gets her hands out. Like she goes, okay, this is about as bad as it ever gets. You know, like, so then there was this question. Do you remember the question?

It was a key question for me. She says, I have two questions. Mike, you know, you need to do some work, right? On yourself. I was like, yeah. Lisa, you know, you need to do some work on yourself, right? Lisa goes, yeah. And then she says, okay.

Do you want to do the work with each other? or do you want to do it with another partner because it's going to show up in your next relationship and that really is I think as a person that's been married for so many years I think that is the one thing that relationships have that is like short-sighted is that. Because I was like, oh God, I can't know. I don't want to do this with anybody else. Him just saying that made me think like, yeah, God, that's true. Like, yeah, I mean, you can find someone else. But this shit, the hard work, the relationship, I'm like, oh no,

I do not want to do this with anybody else. And that was that moment. I knew that I couldn't answer because like, this was, this was really her dictating our future in this moment. I was as vulnerable, as hopeful as you could be. And the answer was, I think probably obvious to you, right? Like what I would have said in that moment. And that, I don't know how many seconds it took. It was the, it was the most, was i think probably obvious to you right like what i would have said in that moment and that i don't know how many seconds it took it was the it was the most exposed vulnerable um like a disaster that i could there was no strength in me right it was just complete um transparency and vulnerability just waiting for the answer because that was it.

And this was like right, this was session one. So that's okay. Thank you for saying that because that's what I want to ask you. Yeah. For all of us out there that are pigheaded and stubborn. And if our significant other told us I'm done, get out. For all of us that would say, okay, I guess this is it. And that would go on with our lives and not make that call and not keep calling when she's

not taking our calls. What made you do that? How did you build up the nerve and the strength to do that? You know what you want. You know. Like I knew what I wanted. I knew what was worth fighting for. I knew that like that, like I wasn't done.

I didn't do a good enough job. She deserves better. She's right. And so like, I knew I had this idea, the vision that I would hope we could work toward, but it needed both of us. And so it was just like a function of clarity for me. It wasn't like ego and all that other stuff that normally might've gotten in the way when it's, when the, when the mission is protection of self, then all the things that you are intimating would be present like, well, okay, well screw you then or whatever, you know, like, but that was not what was happening. It was something else, which is like, no, no, no. Give me a shot because I know that I have an idea of how I could show up in a better way for you. And so that's kind of what was the driving

force. And Lisa, for you, what made you say, okay, I'll give it a shot. Even though at first you were like, I'm done. What broke through? Well, I think like how much he was willing to work. Yeah. You know, and I really do believe, and this is maybe me being naive, but like there are a lot of good men out there, but there are very few like great, like we, like you, he has always known who he was he was always different in that um and even though he he says he was insecure and he was worried about what other people thought there was always something secure about him that made him different from other people. He always followed his nose. He did what he wanted to do, selfishly at times. But like it was a quality that I was like, yeah, that's what I want because he didn't do what other people did. He did what he

wanted to do, who he was true to himself always. And so when we were in therapy, you know, him wanting to be better, I was like, yeah, this is worth fighting for. And then just hearing you say that now, that's the thing that I was talking about that has been the greatest gift. And she just gave it again. That was it, which is she's not just seeing like the sturdiness of like the foundation. She's seeing the bedrock of which it rests on in ways that like, I want to be that person that she just saw. And I recognize that in me. And then, but when somebody else sees it, it's like, it feels different. So that was the example of the gift that she's given over and over and over again. And she taught me how to do that for her.

And then hopefully I'm doing that for people that trust me, you know, to help them. And in every client relationship that I have, where know, to, to help them. And in every client relationship that I have, where somebody is trusting me to help them through some sort of patch in their life, Lisa is in the room. She like the, the way I think about love is like, there's a fullness to it. Like there's an animation that takes over me. It's like, there's just a fullness of hearts, but it's more than just like one region of the body. It's like, there's just a fullness of heart, but it's more than just like one region of the body. It's like a fullness. And every client that I've ever worked with, that insight, that feeling, Lisa is in the room, like guiding me in that, in this weird kind of way. And so it's

really like a gift that keeps giving, you know, pebble in the pond. When I talk about a pebble in the pond, a bunch, like if we can be a heavy weighted pebble, create real ripples in the world. And so I don't feel like I'm alone. Just like her family had her back. I feel like together I've got another pebble. That's like, we're joined in this cool way. And I've got our whole family, my family, like there's just the, there's a different type of weight that comes with it. When somebody says I can get past the color of your hair, you know, the, whatever the body that you pretend to be in and get right down into the bedrock of the person that is always been there when you were three and 13 and 23. And like that part of you, I see. And I don't know another way to say thank you.

So it's funny, it's like, I really mean everything I just said, like, thank you. And then I've got this other part of me was like, man, we are in the world of cheesy quickly. Well, no, no, no, not when you hit the Shantae thing, you took us out of there real quick. Are you guys best friends? For sure.

For sure. A hundred percent. So with that being said, you know, the corny saying about they say you should marry your best friend. Do you believe that? I don't know. I mean, we became best friends. Yeah. Right?

Like, it wasn't like that early. Oh, gosh. You know, again, it's that divine thing because every friendship takes time, right? It's a relationship that takes a piece of you. What do you mean by that, takes a piece of you? It just takes energy. It takes a want. It just takes a piece of you, you know?

That's so interesting. a want, it takes, it just takes a piece of you, you know? And I don't want, I don't give that up freely to people. I don't have many friends because he is my best friend. This is who I pour into. And I wouldn't do it unless he was, if I didn't trust him 100%. Regardless of what would ever happen or whatever, I trust him in this moment. I trust myself most of all in this moment. And I don't give that up to just anybody. I love that statement. I'm the same way.

I don't throw out, this is my friend or best friend a good friend freely i trip when i see people do that i'm like oh yeah i just met him a couple months ago totally how you say you love him already i think it requires incredible time under tension yeah to be like to trust somebody and so some people are like trust is earned trust is given um i think it's got to be earned time under tension. Like who are you when it gets heavy? What happens when you've got, you know, this option or that option, which one do you take? And like, it takes time. And now one final word from our sponsors.

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Since you guys are best friends, Mike, would you bring Lisa around your boys? Lisa, would you bring Mike out with your girls? Oh, totally. We've done it our whole life. Oh, for real? For real. I need a story. I need an example. Oh. Yeah, we just like, it was always Mike and Lisa. As a matter of fact, when we got married, this was even, I don't know, maybe that's not the best example. The Monsignor was up there and he goes, how do you put it? He goes, I present to you Mr. and Mrs. Gervais, but they'll always be Mike and Lisa to us. Yeah, right. Like we just, we would always, we would roll with each other.

Yeah. And that's where it got dangerous though, because we were with each other so much that there was that commingling. Yeah. And that commingling, actually commingling actually we had to separate at one point. And so I wouldn't, I wouldn't advise it too early is our point. It's, I would advise a path of whatever age, it doesn't matter. Know yourself. Okay. But really know yourself. But I also think in order to fit into the boys or the girls or whatever, I think you have to be comfortable within yourself

to be able to commingle with the boys. And I mean, I don't know. I think we're just living our life. So we come as a package deal. That doesn't mean that he doesn't go. Cause sometimes I'm like, you just go. I don't want to go to that thing. You go do it. Oh, yeah, 100%. But we're just like a package deal. We like to hang out. So has there ever been a time when you're hanging out with Mike and his boys

and you're like, man, this is a bad idea. I've just, I got, God, when is this going to be over? Oh, yeah. And vice versa. But I say, I have a big mouth. I mean, I've gotten in fights

with his really good friend, Keith, screaming at each other. What's up, Keith? Yeah. Shout out to Keith. We love you, Keith. Yeah. But yeah, I mean, but it is what it is. But they become friends.

Like it's part, you know, so it's, I think the separation, guys and girls, like men and women, I don't know. I don't totally get it. I've got guy friends don't get me wrong and like we'll go do stuff and it's all it's all fine but like the core is the core yeah well i hate the um it's it's a guy's thing it's a um i'm like fuck off okay you won't be seeing us much because i just hate that machismo attitude it's like if you won't be seeing us much because I just hate that machismo attitude. It's like, if you can't do it in front of me,

then we got issues because I can't trust you. And if I can't trust you, we're done. That's a great point. It makes it hard to hang out with that guy too. So yeah, you've had to get related. Listen,

bro, you can't go, Lisa don't like you. You can't go around. You can't go around. That's a problem. But I back it up with evidence. I just don't, I'm just not like, I don't like you. You can't come around. You can't come around no more. That's a problem. But I back it up with evidence. I just don't, I'm just not like, I don't like you.

I mean, there's evidence like. Oh, so you've told him before, like I don't like such and such. 100%. Okay. Are you talking about to me or to the guy? No, no. She told you like a friend.

To the friend. Yeah. To the friend or to you? To you about somebody. And to the friend. Like, yeah, this is not just like a behind the scenes. So I'm saying, she says this to the friend too. She's a fire breather.

Okay. This is a truth teller that says it. Yeah. Sorry. Lisa, you are a gangster. So you're looking in the face like this. Honest, honest. Just honest.

Wow. I do. And everybody usually says, man, I love that about you until it falls on them. Yeah. And then, you know, it's like they get intimidated. But whatever. It's all good.

It is. It's hard. Hearing truth when you don't necessarily want to hear it. It's hard. It's just hard. It doesn't mean that you're right. Right. It just means that, like, we need to talk about something because there's something

happening. And so here's my experience or my point of view, or here's how I feel. And so it's not like, what's wrong with you? It's more like, I got to tell you something, you know, like it feels like there's something shady and, or like to use that example, I don't, I don't even have a real example in my mind, but like, and so I'm just telling you that that's the the way it feels and i don't know if that's what's going on or not but that's just how it feels for me i think that's amazing i appreciate that i mean you you you want a straight shooter rather than you just saying it to him and yeah but people say they want a straight shooter but then when delivered a straight my circle is real small because i'm a straight shooter yeah yeah there's a there's a cost to it.

Yeah. It's so much easier to bounce on the surface and just be kind of like happy, go lucky and easy and whatever, and always be liked and, and make everyone feel happy. Yeah. And the people pleaser thing, it's so much easier at some level socially,

but the cost of that is incredibly high as well. So it's, it's, it's draining daunting and draining. easier at some level socially, but the cost of that is incredibly high as well. It's draining, daunting and draining. What would you guys say to folks out there right now that are going to spend Valentine's day alone? Right. The people that are like, oh, it's Valentine's day. It's cuffing season. I need to, I need to see somebody. What would you say to them? I'd say love yourself. Like, you know, if you're by yourself on Valentine's, do something for yourself. I think it's really important to be able to sit within yourself, love yourself, and then go out with friends. But the number one thing is you have to love yourself, I think. Yeah. We talk about relationships a lot in both in Finding Mastery

and it starts with your relationship with yourself first and then with others and then with, you know, experiences and then with mother nature and, you know, maybe machines here one day, but like the relationship

is where it starts with yourself. And so I don't know. It's a great day. Yeah. It doesn't have to be with someone else. It's cool. I think it's a stupid day. day. Honestly, sorry for all the women out there that love Valentine's day. I think it's absolutely stupid. And I'll tell you why I think it's stupid because there

are so- This is so easy for, this day for me is so easy. Like there's a lot of drama around this for a lot of people, but- Because I come from the world where my dad says every day is your birthday. Yeah. Every day is Valentine's day. Love everybody or who you want every day. Don't just wait for the one day to come home with flowers and cake and whatever and be like, I love you. I love you. I love you. But then you're treated like shit all the other days. Yeah. and be like, I love you, I love you, I love you. But then you're treated like shit all the other days. I think it's the stupidest day. I think the expectation of it is too much.

I think women that are like, what are you going to do for me? And what are you going to buy me? And then their relationship is a piece of crap. I just think it's a bad day. That's what I'm talking about, Lisa. Got us out there going to 7-Eleven and buying chocolates

and picking flowers out of people's rose bushes and all that. 7-Eleven. That's the next level. That's so good. So if there's a gift exchange, it rarely

will fall on a birthday or Christmas or Valentine's. if there's a gift exchange between us it's like because we want it and like and to do something nice i want to do something nice for you and it just happens to be on a tuesday in the middle yes like and then this day rolls around and it's like you know like cool happy valentine's i mean a relationship really is a partnership and i think every day you have to work on that partnership. And if that's, you have to put a dish away or you want to pick up Grayson or it's a partnership, it's a give and take. So the one day that comes, I think it's stupid to, you know.

And in that give and take bit is like some things around the house that I do that I like to do. But maybe she likes to do those chores or those things as well. I love it. No, like. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. I'm joking. I was about to say you can always flip and flop and like, you know, like it doesn't have to be traditional chores or roles.

Like you can work them out and flip and flop them if you wanted to as well. Yeah, it's just a partnership. I don't know. I'm sure someone will say oh but it's a nice day to just take the moment to celebrate each other and then i would say but celebrate each other every day yeah every day be a kind person be a loving person be a supportive person every day the two the both not one more than the other but like you think most people think that? What? What you just said. I don't know.

I mean, this is me. What do you think? Do most couples think that like every day? I can't imagine somebody saying, no, it's not every day. It's the one day. I mean, they would, of course, back your point. I mean, 100% back lisa's point but that that heavy emphasis on that that magnification of that day because i that's why i said i'm in the agreeance with you because

i'm like oh so so what am i supposed to do today do i extra clean the place do i buy you flowers do i do do i extra do i do i make up for all the times that i did fail for um teen i mean i can't do that in one day right so why are we having this um the pressure that it did fail for umpteen. I mean, I can't do that in one day, right? So why are we having this? The pressure that it puts on us is, it's a strange kind of pressure because I've felt the Valentine's Day pressures and I've been told, don't give me anything, I'm good. I don't want, just another day.

And I'm like, okay. And I don't do it when we're on the couch and I feel the eyes burning through my temple. I'm like, oh man, I should have got some 700 chocolates. Well, but that doesn't mean like ignore, like ignore the situation. Oh, here's the real story. I got you, Lisa. No, no, listen.

That was, you went for the bait. No, listen. It's like, I love you and I love my life with you. And, you know, we're good together or whatever, because it really, we just want a connection, right? And so when we get a present, that's a connection, right? That's like you guys thinking about us. Yeah. So if women feel like they don't have a partner,

that piece of jewelry means something. My husband loves me because he went and brought me a bracelet. Yeah. But I feel like that's kind of hollow. Yeah. It's one day that's kind of hollow. Yeah. It's one day. It's one present. I feel like every day it's,

you're working towards something more. If you were to go out with like some gals, you're at lunch or something, and it's the 14th or the 15th, the day after, and one of your gals goes, look at this bracelet. Or, oh my God, my house was covered with flowers. It was amazing. And then the next one says, oh covered with flowers it was amazing and then the next one says oh i got a car and then the next one says we planned the most

beautiful relationship or this vacation it was just so awesome we leaned over the computer we just and like it was and then lisa how about you i mean you know what i'm gonna say it's a it's a fucking stupid no i would never make someone feel bad. I just, I would be like, that's awesome. That is amazing. Oh my God, that's so beautiful. Like there's not, I don't hold judgment for anybody or anything. Whatever their relationship is, is their deal.

And I think that's awesome because I'm not here to tell anybody how to live. For me, it's not necessary. I don't care what other people have. I don't care what other people get. I don't care where other people go. I live my life true to me, what I want, how I want to live and who I want to live it with. Everything else is just noise. I love that. I love that. And maybe we'd split the difference. In what way? Well, just an idea, Lisa. Don't chastise me for saying this.

Give my little two cents. How about Mike presents you with a brand new Cartier watch and dinner to Noble. Hold on, Mike. Hold on. And dinner to Noble. And then you take it and you snatch and you say, this don't mean nothing. I would never do that either. I'm going to put this on my wrist.

Every day we in love. Let's go to Noble. Don't do this again, Mike. Don't get me wrong. I'll take the car to you. Watch. Okay. Just no pressure.

No pressure, Mike. No pressure. Thank you for that setup. I got you. I got you, Mike. I told you. O'Neal will never come on the show again. So, okay.

So I'm going to ask this question, but I want each of you to answer for the other person. So are there any hidden talents or skills or something that people wouldn't know about you? Right? Like the hidden thing. Lisa, tell me about Mike's first. And one more thing. You got to be honest. Let me know if she's right and vice versa.

Okay. I have recently just said this to somebody, but Mike is really good. And I give him a hard time because I'm like, you must have done this for your mom as a young child. He is really good at hooking my necklaces and my bracelet like really good okay because you're wearing a pink shirt i'll allow this to happen

and so then he quickly says no lisa it's because i love those model airplanes and i would work with little miniature pieces but he's really good when i can't do it. Yeah. I've got these nails. He's like in two seconds. He's like, okay, you're, you're snapped in. So he's an expert necklace hooker.

Yes. Which I always find really because he's got big thumbs. They're flat. So I have lots of range on them. So there's like a larger surface.

Yeah. Okay. So Mike, is Lisa correct? And if so, how did you develop the ability? It actually,

it actually feels easy to kind of find those little hooks. It does. I'm surprised that people would have a hard time with it. So how about that? I have the most difficult time doing it. You do?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, so. You guys have big hands, so it's just a funny thing. You know what they say about big hands? Big gloves. No? Mike, Mike.

Yes, yes, yes. That's a. Different conversation. Different conversation. the thing thing about lisa um i mean we've talked about it but i don't i don't think that most people would know what you can do on a dance floor like i it i don't know if it's hidden but it's not talked about or celebrated and it was a different life it was a different life our people now don't know me as that yeah but like i got to see her dance on stage with some greats and to like like legit world-class dance wow jazz and ballet and so like i think most people it feels hidden because it's a lifetime it was a lifetime ago it was different a lifetime ago. It was different. Yeah. And I know you just went dancing recently. I did.

With a friend. Yeah. Was it like there for you? Did it feel like the rust knocked off? I was a little rusty, but it's there. It's there. It's there. Yeah.

I just didn't know a little bit of time. So how many shantays? Shantay. Yes! Shantay. What is it called when you... Like pirouettes? No, no, no.

It's like... Plie? No, I'm more advanced than plie. Sorry, sorry. I'm blanking right now, but like one leg comes up, whips around, and you come down. Oh, fouettes. Fouettes. Fouettes.

Yeah. It was like, how many? Oh, God. So my dance mentor was Paula Morgan. And if you are a Paula Morgan dancer, you are a legit dancer. Yeah. Like she, I credit her for everything. And then I also danced.

Including the abuse? No, you know what? You don't know, Mike, what it was like to have a 200 pound woman breaking your hips to make sure that you're like. Black swan type stuff. Yeah, but she was old school. I mean, she was taught herself by the best and yeah, it was a little hardcore, but so we would have to do that.

But way ahead of her, sorry. Way ahead of her time. Like things that are happening in mobility work now, things that are happening in prehab and whatever, like Paula Morgan, I was watching Lisa and Paula and her students do it in 1987. Stuff that is kind of almost mainstream now. People are like, oh, let me show you this thing we're doing in mobility work. And it was like, so it's really cool when you can watch a true innovator and be around that

innovation. They are easily three decades. She was easily three decades ahead of her time, which is really pretty cool. But anyway, sorry to interrupt. Yeah, she was amazing. So, I mean, we would have to do 30 fouettes in one sitting. And if we fall, we'd have to start again from the beginning. 30? 30.

Jesus. Yeah. And so how long would practices be? Well, in the summer, it was from 1 in the afternoon till 10.30 at night. Six days a week? Six days a week. On Saturdays, it was 9 a.m. to 3.

And then during school, I would leave. I would get out of school at 3, be there at 4, and be there till 10.30. What? I mean, professional athletes, as you know, you know, the upper reaches four, four and a half hours. Yeah. A week.

Ballet is a different deal. Jazz, ballet, dance. We were triple threats. Like, and if you throw in hip hop, that's four, but we did it all. Yeah. I'm glad you said that because in like 1987, 88, you know, are you familiar with Big Daddy Kane?

Yeah. I used to be, you know, Big Daddy Kane dancer. Yeah. Wait, you were? Yeah, there was Scoop and Scrap Love. And then there was me, Dap Love, you know, but no one ever saw me. No one ever saw me on camera because I would be in the background. We need evidence.

That's just it. Yeah, we need some evidence. There was a fire. And so all the evidence of me being DAP love went down with it. So I don't really talk about it. You brought it out of me, Lisa. Oh my God, that's so good.

I appreciate you. Okay. So I danced hip hop back then. Did you? Yeah, but I was the one who did the neck thing. And a lot of people do it, but I was the first person to do it. I was on set, and then I did it, and somebody saw me. I was like, you do it like this.

And then it just went. It was on your TV raps. Is this for real? Yeah. I'm a humble guy. I don't talk about stuff like that. When I watch it, I'm like, that's crazy. Because I don't need the accolades.

You know what I'm saying? I'm confident in myself. Okay, cool. I didn't want to, I don't need the accolades. You know what I'm saying? I'm confident in myself. Okay, cool. I didn't want to throw that in there. So being that you're such an accomplished dancer, right? When you guys would go dancing, how was Mike? Was he intimidated by you?

Was he like, yo, don't want to dance me on the dance floor? Dance this. Okay. No, look, I don't know what you're going to say, but I just need to stand still. So feet stand planted. Yeah. Just kind of bounce to a little bit of the rhythm.

You know, kind of move your hands just a little bit. Kind of keep them in close to the body a little bit. And the show is happening. Okay. Well, you know what? The thing is happening. I need to step in though, because this is something people do not know. Mike was in a rap group.

Holy shit. You should have never told me that. Let me scream. This is so- And he, it was Mike, Barry- This is gonna get edited. This is all getting edited out. And who was the third?

James. James. And the three of them had a record deal. They were called Eclipse. Okay. Two black guys, two white guys. Wow. Yes. Okay, they had a record deal. Yep. They performed at

some Miss Teen California. They had a song. Just relax. I want to hear the song. No. This was a lifetime ago. It was. That's something people will not know. James and Barry would know.

Yeah. This will all get edited. This will all get edited. None of this will come out. None of it. Our producer Kevin Lake is a co-writer in the book has been dying to get some of this footage at some point. I don't know where it is.

I love that. That's some complete honesty. It's like on an eight track somewhere. Yeah. I want to hear it. They've got lots of lifetimes. Well, I mean, I love that. That's some complete honesty. It's like on an 8-track somewhere. Yeah. I want to hear it. They've got lots of lifetimes. Well, I mean, I'll take the 8-track and I'll convert it. That's how important it is.

Yes. I don't even know what that stuff is. Oh, God. Finding Mastery is brought to you by iRestore. When it comes to my health, I try to approach things with a proactive mindset. It's not about avoiding poor health. This is about creating the conditions for growth. Now, hair health is one of those areas that often gets

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The promo code is FINDINGMASTERY for 25% off, and then plus an extra $50 on us, because quality sleep is just too important to leave to chance. All right. So listen, if you were stuck on a desert Island, right? What three items would each of you bring in and why? I think I should try to guess yours. Well, SPF 100%. I got to protect the skin. She's been putting on like SPF since she was 15. Yeah, SPF. It's pretty intense. Oh gosh.

You gotta do water, right? Water. Got it, you need water. I mean, unless you got a filter, you know. So we're saying water's already, spring water's there. Well, SPF. There's always gonna be spring water on. Spring water's on the island.

Okay. SPF. I don't know, those are weird questions. I know, I'm wondering what question. And Grayson.. I don't know. Those are weird questions. I know. You. And Grayson. And Grayson. All right, we're good. A little SPF.

Yes. A little spring water. And Grayson. And Grayson. You don't need a TV, not a Netflix or anything like that? I know you're going with your phone. My phone. That's all I need.

Where's my phone, dude? I need my phone. I don't need anything else. I never know how to answer those questions. I know. Hopefully that never happens. Hopefully that never happens. Hopefully it never happens. But if it does, I'm sure you'll get rescued.

Lisa, I want to ask you if it's okay. I want to ask you about your vlog. My vlog. Yeah. I mean, this is just. So I wanted just to do something creative. Yeah. And I want to. I'm so tired of the fakery and I'm just

so tired of the contrived that it's like I just want to be me and and just put real out into the world I love every bit of it it's just that so it's just being creative and I don't get to dance anymore and I don't get to act anymore and totally fine with that. But it's like I can do something else that kind of feeds that creativity. And then at the same time, how I want to get dressed, what I find interesting, what I find difficult. a well-lived life in an honest way and not have to fill our face or put on the extensions or pretend that we're something we're not, or it's just being real. That's lovely. What's the name of it, if you don't mind me asking? Me, it's Lisa Gervais.

It's YouTube. Love it. And Instagram. So, I mean, it's no different, I don't think, than- There's only a handful of, you just started. I just started. She's getting her,

her bearings on it, which I like, it's cool. It's, it's fun to watch you. Spend three hours editing for a 12 minute episode. I can't with this. After talking to you today,

I'm going to be watching it. Is it once a week? Is it like, what is it? I try to release episodes on one on Wednesday, one on Sunday. Okay. I'll be listening after today. I'm going be watching it is it once a week is it like what is it I try to release episodes on one on Wednesday one on Sunday okay I'll be listening after today I'm gonna be listening I love I love this Mike yes you talk about being a high performance person a lot right what does it take to have a high performance relationship cool question uh it just starts in one place which is honestly that's that's something that is challenging to do, I think, because it's easier to take a shortcut.

It's easier to shift around a topic rather than sit with it when it's hard. And so high-performance relationships and high-performing people begins with a commitment to honesty. And it allows you to drill down right into what the truth of something is and then wrestle at that place. Rather than stay up on the surface and get knocked around by the trade winds, you get down into the bedrock where it's really cold sometimes, but it's so sturdy and it's so foundationally strong that if you're working with honesty, you're working at a place of bedrock. And so, I don't know, that's where I'd start. And then I think all the other kind of tactics and skills are really important, like being a good listener, trying to understand what it's like to be the other person who's

speaking or engaged in it with you. Can I say something else that I think is really important? I think being aware of your own mortality, I think is really important because like, I don't, I feel like I could die tomorrow or he could die tomorrow or Grayson could die tomorrow. And I think how being connected to what's really important, which is us right now living, I think allows for that deep, great relationships, even when it's hard, even when like the moment is just like, oh my God, I'm so frustrated or I'm so unhappy or whatever the case is. If you go back to what you're grateful for and we could be not here tomorrow yeah i think it you re-evaluate your situation real fast damn yeah i mean it's one of the foundational principles right like impermanence and so she honestly works from impermanence people throw the word around it's one of the zen principles

you know buddhist idea as well and every world religion has some idea of what happens next yeah and the idea that fundamentally we're impermanent she lives it every day it's incredibly inspiring and it doesn't come from a place um well maybe i don't know at one point maybe it doesn't feel like it now of like anxiety yeah it's more like look we're not sorry no i to say it's, there's a little bit of anxiety there. I'm working on just sitting with it and just knowing that that's the path that we all take. You know, I get nervous because we have a son and I would, I don't want him to feel that pain, but he will feel it at some point. So, so there is a little bit of anxiety there but i think that if you come back to what's important um that eases it because you're right here right now is okay we're good

so you can live this moment and not get too ahead of it real talk i i can talk to you guys for another hour i but i gotta answer one more question thank you thank you o'neill for hosting this like we you know when we got pitched this idea, we're like, oh God. I was like, who wants to do this crap? And both of us were like, come on, you know? And then they were banging around. They're just like, what if O'Neal did it?

And we're like, yeah, that sounds good because you bring a honesty to it. I appreciate that. Yeah. I appreciate that. So, yeah, no, thank you for navigating my anxiousness of this conversation. I feel like we've grown that. Yeah. No, thank you for navigating my anxiousness of this conversation. I feel like we've grown closer.

Yeah, right. Thank you for trusting me with your relationship. Thank you. I love this. Man, I don't want to ask this question now. Come on now. No, ask it. Ask it.

Okay. All right. Last question. Last question. Last question. Okay. Do you guys still go through times where you love each other, but don't like each other?

I'll let her go first. Yeah. I will say that he is the most important person in my life, him and Grayson. So regardless if I'm annoyed or he bugs me at times, usually it's because I'm going through something because he's still the same person that he always was. So I will say, yeah, is it perfect all the time? Definitely not. Sometimes I'm like, why are you breathing like that?

Like, stop breathing like that. I've heard that before. Yes. like stop breathing like that i've heard that before yes actually when we're going through our heavy stuff and we're in that repair phase but still in the heavy heaviness um we're arguing about something and she goes can you just stop breathing right now i was eating you know and i was maybe eating too fast there's a sound to it and so but. But, but that's usually that's on me. I'm going through something that I need to work out because I will say, you know, he's an amazing person. He's taught me so much. We have grown up together.

And I mean, I, I really, I honestly believe that for me, there is no better partner to be on this earth with. Thank you. Honestly. Ditto. And if God forbid, I say this all the time, if God forbid anything happens to him. Wait, you're going to say this all the time to other people? Well, I say it. I'm like. No, that's a bad joke.

If God forbid anything happens to him, do not come calling because I am never, ever getting into another relationship. Wow. Yo, that's the biggest shout out you could ever get. Wow. Yeah. So he must hold his breath when you tell him to stop breathing. Mom, dad's faded again. Wow. That's amazing. It's's awesome it's an incredible gift and like the impermanence that we're talking about and then the interrelatedness is that um we're all connected

in some kind of weird way and so when when you're able to feel that connection amongst each other and with with everything that's living and at the same time appreciate the space and so if like we're arguing about something and like maybe i'll hear from you like you're really bugging me right now you know and so i'm at my best when i can be like that's cool you know like she's going through some shit and what's my am i triggering it yeah i guess i am like and then just create a little bit of space in it. It feels like it just is so much lighter. Yeah, well, his response is, what's wrong, panda bear? And then he's like really bugging me.

What's wrong, panda bear? That's our code. That's her name? Yeah. But you hear that. No, no, that's not her nickname. That's a code for like, you know, panda bears don't get rattled by shit. Right?

There's no predators for panda bears. Oh, that's right. You told me about that before. That's right. Come on, panda bear. Like, that's right, you told me about that before. That's right. Come on, panda bear. Like, what could possibly get you going here? So like having a little bit of that playfulness is something I try to do.

This is the year of play for me, so I'm trying even more. Okay, but I'd like to point out that he didn't say, "'Don't come calling for him if something happens to me." See that? Why you even do that? I was thinking, I'm glad you said, I was thinking. You were not thinking that. You were not thinking that.

Whatever. No, it's like, that's not something that, I don't know what the future would hold. I love you dearly. And like, I'm not interested in any other woman on the planet.

So. Boom. Nice, Mike. Nice save. Whatever. Try to back you up on that. Okay. Nice, Mike. Nice save. Whatever. Try to back you up on that. Okay.

Well, this wouldn't be an episode without a question from the audience. So I got to put this question out here for you. Me with my professional voice now. Dr. Mike, I've been in a relationship for seven years. We generally have a good dynamic. I love her so much as I did when we first met, but there is an area where I get tripped up. If she complains about something at work or with the kids or social life, I'm a very good listener, no problems. But if her complaint is directed at me, I have a much more difficult time with that. Something gets

threatened because I feel the need to defend myself rather than just listening to her experience of me. I flip over to my experience and she gets frustrated and so do I. How can I do this part of my relationship better? Is there a high performance approach? Thanks in advance, Dr. Mike. It's cool. I mean, the answer is embedded in the question, you know, which is it's the ability to not bring your shit into that moment. And anytime you're defending yourself, it is cool to say, what am I actually defending?

So it's a question I really like. When I get riled about something and I feel like I need to defend myself, what am I actually defending here? My ego? My identity? Not really. It's not monetary. It's not physical. Like what am I actually defending? It is my sense of self. And then you take another beat like, wait, is this about me or is this about the other person? Is this about the intertwinement between the two of us? So all of that for me gives me space. So when Lisa, or let's just

flip it, like if I'm agitated by something and I bark or I say something, she's really good at it. She's like, whatever. And I was like, there's just no entanglement there. And so it's not, at least for us, it's not like, oh, I see you're upset.

Can we talk about it? Do you want to talk about it? Like, okay, it's not about me. I see you're agitated. That's okay. It's not that for us. It's more like just don't get tangled in it. And if the right call is a listen, great.

It's just a little bit of space and kind of as best as you can take your ego out of it. And I don't have like a crisp, clean answer of it, but it's the easiest way to describe it is not to get tangled. So what is that? Ask the question, like, what am I defending? I really do believe that a great relationship really is bound by two strong individuals that know themselves separately. So my goal in a great relationship is to learn about myself as much as possible, to love myself, to know how I work through things, to understand me.

Because sometimes the emotional side of just throwing up everything and being a jerk happens. And, you know, Mike has done a lot of work on himself. So he can say, okay, whoa, back up. I back up, not saying to you back up. Yeah, no, you back up and then you give the space. That's what you're talking about. But when you're in an emotional moment, it's difficult to have that insight. But if you've done the work in yourself and you are aware of what's happening and you

can take a moment, it's much easier to untangle the messy. I think if you're just two people that are like trying to be right and one person is, you have to do your own self-work. You can't blame the other person for your shortcomings. Yeah. It's a better answer because what she pointed to is do the work so that when that moment arises, you are better equipped to manage that moment, to meet the moment. It is about the work. It's not about an easy solution in that moment. I think that's probably why I struggled with it. I do try to create space, but the way I practice creating space is through contemplative practices like meditation and just being mindful of the space between each breath, the hello and goodbye to thoughts.

For me, the three S's of mindfulness are really important, silence, space, and stillness. And so that if I'm better at being still, like saying be grounded, be here, be right now, there's a stillness with that, and I'm better at creating space, and I'm better at being the silence to be able to listen that when that moment rises up, like, oh, cool. This is another moment to practice.

When I'm not, when I'm off, I'm hangry, when I'm not practiced, when I'm tired, whatever it might be, I get sucked right into first person shooter too. You know, first person driver is a better analogy. And if I can, if I can just create the space and almost float up from a drone perspective, but still not disassociate from the experience, still be in it warmly, but not, but not be sucked into like, whoa, you know, like sometimes. Yeah. I mean, we're not perfect. I mean, we have our moments. Like, whoa, hold on, back up. And then I know when I do that, she, the alpha line here is not saying, yeah, you're right. Like automatically, like we're entangled. And so, I don't know, you're pointing to the right place, which is doing the work so that you're better able to meet the moment the way you would like to.

Yeah. But isn't that the key to life, to anything, to everything? Fitness, health, spiritual, mental. Right. It starts with what is it that you want? How do you want to do it? How do you want to go to that point? It's the way we train Olympians. It's the way we do just about anything. You use your imagination in a radical way to think about the future in a compelling way. What type of person do you want to be in the relationships that you're in? And when you get your imagination dialed into what that actually materially, fabrically feels like, like it's a tinsel strength that you could

touch it, like it's so crystal clear, then you can back in from it or back from that and go, well, what do I need to do to train so that I can be that person? And that's accessible to everybody, all walks of life, all socioeconomic status, man, woman, that's available for all of us to search out, to seek out. Yeah. That's the thing that we have inside of us already capability to do. That's so, that's so interesting because when you say it, it sounds so, okay, I should know that, but actually activating it, right? Making that practice is amazing. Lisa, Mike, this has been amazing. Thank you.

Thank you. No, I mean that. I really do mean that. I really enjoyed this conversation. I'm glad that you two trusted me enough to let me ask you these questions and just delve into a little bit of your relationship. Yeah, it's awesome.

How was it for you? It was good. I mean mean whatever someone wants to know i just try to answer it honestly whatever it is weird like it's it is hard to um to keep in mind like i love the intimacy of podcasts the person who's listening like we're right with you. You know, when I'm listening to a podcast, like the person that I'm listening to, they're in my ears, literally, like it's so intimate. And so I love, like, I haven't come to the places that you brought me in this conversation ever before in this way. So thank you for bringing me into those places and you're a great leader in so many ways. So to me, it's really cool to be able to do this with you. And at the same time, there's NFL stadiums of people listening, which is like an amazing

tension between the intimacy of not only the conversation here, but the intimacy of the one person listening and then the magnitude of people only the conversation here, but the intimacy of the one person listening and then the magnitude of people that are tuning in. So thank you for all the compliments. Thank you for the way that you shared them today. And they're not really compliments. They're like the way that you see me. And that has been one of the greatest gifts.

If there's anything that you can give to another person, the thing that I can pass forward from you is to really see them, is to see them. And that gift is radical. My dad taught me that. And not that my mom didn't have her hand, but my mom gave me something different. My dad really gave me the gift to- What did your mom give you? My mom gave me something different my dad really gave me the gift to what your mom gave you my mom my mom gave me fire she fired mom she gave you know pure no fakery no fakery fire you know just a great bubbled energy as well yeah and let's also be clear what valentine's day relationships is what we're talking about in our relationship. We're working out all the shit that went sideways in our earlier

life in this relationship. And we're bringing in our family stuff and our commitment to, to each other and to our son is to not repeat the traumas that we've been. We're giving him other trauma, but just not to repeat it. We're making mistakes, but not to repeat the same ones that we've been- We're giving him other trauma. But just not to repeat them. We're making mistakes, but not to repeat the same ones that we've gone through. And trauma is a charged word and it means so many things to many people, but you can say micro traumas or whatever, like whatever that lineage that your family holds,

at some point, if you can make the commitment to say, I'm gonna change that i am gonna fundamentally change the next generation and i'm gonna work it out with a great partner that's rad yeah that's a really cool thing thank you for i think helping me work it out i think episodes like this create that right that vulnerability that you uh that you show creates all that. I mean, sitting across from the two of you, I remember one time I was doing a podcast earlier with Mike and I checked out, I checked out for a couple seconds and he was like, you're not even here with me right now. How are you?

I was like, man, how'd you know that? Nobody ever knows that. So the intimacy is undeniable. Like, you know, I have to, you know, we have to listen to each other and it creates that forced honesty, which is so good. Listen,

this has been a great, beautiful Valentine's episode of Finding Mastery with Michael and Lisa. I want to thank you all for tuning in. I want to thank you guys for giving me the opportunity

to talk to you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. All right. Thank you so much for diving into another talk to you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. All right. Thank you so much for diving into another episode of Finding Mastery with us. Our team loves creating this podcast and sharing these conversations with you. We really appreciate you being part of this community.

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one of the best things you can do is to talk to a licensed professional so seek assistance from your health care providers again a sincere thank you for listening until next episode be well think well keep exploring