Finding Mastery with Dr. Michael Gervais - Vicki Golden, Nitro Circus Freestyle Motocross Athlete

Episode Date: July 31, 2019

This week’s conversation is with Vicki Golden, a professional freestyle motocross rider and four-time X Games gold medalist.Vicki is the first female member of the SoCal freestyle motocross team Metal Mulisha and also performs in Travis Pastrana's Nitro Circus Tour.In 2008, at age 16, she became the Loretta Lynn's AMA Women's Amateur Champion.Three years later, she earned her first gold medal at the Women's Moto X Racing in the Summer X Games and collected her second and third gold medals in 2012.In addition to becoming the first female competitor in a Moto X freestyle competition, (which resulted in a bronze medal win in the best whip category in 2012), Vicki was nominated for the ESPY's Best Female Action Sports Athlete award in 2014.In March of this year, Vicki laid it down again in Auckland, New Zealand when she landed her first ever FMX backflip off the 15-foot Next Level ramp, ranking her as the only woman who has flipped one of the largest FMX ramps in the world.I had the fortune of speaking with Vicki only a few days before she performed a record-breaking stunt on HISTORY's Evel Live 2 where she sped through a series of flaming wooden boards.She was the first female to break the record which was set back in 2006.You’ll get a chance to hear how Vicki prepared for this stunt and what was going through her mind in the days leading up to it.I’ve always had a deep appreciation for those who perform in the world of extreme sports, pushing at the edges of their capacity, where there are real consequences when things go wrong.We touch on that in this conversation as well._________________Subscribe to our Youtube Channel for more powerful conversations at the intersection of high performance, leadership, and meaning: https://www.youtube.com/c/FindingMasteryGet exclusive discounts and support our amazing sponsors! Go to: https://findingmastery.com/sponsors/Subscribe to the Finding Mastery newsletter for weekly high performance insights: https://www.findingmastery.com/newsletter Download Dr. Mike's Morning Mindset Routine! https://www.findingmastery.com/morningmindsetFollow us on Instagram, LinkedIn, and X.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Finding Mastery is brought to you by Remarkable. In a world that's full of distractions, focused thinking is becoming a rare skill and a massive competitive advantage. That's why I've been using the Remarkable Paper Pro, a digital notebook designed to help you think clearly and work deliberately. It's not another device filled with notifications or apps.

It's intentionally built for deep work. So there's no social media, no email, no noise. The writing experience, it feels just like pen on paper. I love it. And it has the intelligence of digital tools like converting your handwriting to text, organizing your notes, tagging files, and using productivity templates

to help you be more effective. It is sleek, minimal. It's incredibly lightweight. It feels really good. I take it with me anywhere from meetings to travel without missing a beat. What I love most is that it doesn't try to do everything. It just helps me do one very important thing really well,

stay present and engaged with my thinking and writing. If you wanna slow down, if you wanna work smarter, I highly encourage you to check them out. Visit remarkable.com to learn more and grab your paper pro today. Once you get that feeling of risking it all and you know what could go wrong or it has gone wrong before, so you know the consequences consequences you've felt the consequences but you still go for it and you when you actually get to to reap the benefits and feel the feeling then that's what makes it all worth it all right welcome back or welcome to the Finding Mastery podcast. I'm Michael Gervais, and I trade in training a sport and performance psychologist as well

as the co-founder of Compete to Create. And the whole idea behind these conversations is to learn from people who have committed their life efforts towards mastery. And what does that mean? What are we going to try to learn? We're going to try to understand their psychological framework. We're going to try to dig to understand what they're really searching for and how they make sense of the world around them in conjunction with that mission, their search. And we also want

to understand the mental skills that they've used to build and refine their craft. Finding Mastery is brought to you by LinkedIn Sales Solutions. In any high-performing environment that I've been part of, from elite teams to executive boardrooms, one thing holds true. Meaningful relationships are at the center of sustained success. And building those relationships, it takes more than effort. It takes a real caring about your people. It takes the right tools, the right information at the right time. And that's where LinkedIn Sales Navigator can come in. It's a tool designed specifically for thoughtful sales professionals, helping you find the right people that are ready to engage, track key account changes, and connect with key decision makers more effectively.

It surfaces real-time signals, like when someone changes jobs or when an account becomes high priority, so that you can reach out at exactly the right moment with context and thoroughness that builds trust. It also helps tap into your own network more strategically, showing you who you already know that can help you open doors or make a warm introduction. In other words, it's not about more outreach. It's about smarter, more human outreach. And that's something here at Finding Mastery that our team lives and breathes by. If you're ready to start building stronger relationships that

actually convert, try LinkedIn Sales Navigator for free for 60 days at linkedin.com slash deal. That's linkedin.com slash deal. For two full months for free, terms and conditions apply. Fighting Mastery is brought to you by David Protein. I'm pretty intentional about what I eat, and the majority of my nutrition comes from whole foods. And when I'm traveling or in between meals, on a demanding day, certainly, I need something quick that will support the way that I feel and think and perform. And that's why

I've been leaning on David Protein Bars. And so has the team here at Finding Mastery. In fact, our GM, Stuart, he loves them so much. I just want to kind of quickly put him on the spot. Stuart, I know you're listening. I think you might be the reason that we're running out of these bars so quickly. They're incredible, Mike. I love them. One a day, one a day. What do you mean one a day? There's way more than that happening here. Don't tell. Okay. All right. Look, they're incredibly simple. They're effective. 28 grams of protein, just 150 calories and zero grams of sugar. It's rare to find something that fits so conveniently into a performance-based lifestyle and actually tastes

good. Dr. Peter Attia, someone who's been on the show, it's a great episode by the way, is also their chief science officer. So I know they've done their due diligence in that category. My favorite flavor right now is the chocolate chip cookie dough. And a few of our teammates here at Finding Mastery have been loving the fudge brownie and peanut butter. I know, Stuart, you're still listening here. So getting enough protein matters. And that can't be understated, not just for strength, but for energy and focus, recovery, for longevity. And I love that David is making that easier. So if you're trying to hit your daily protein goals with something seamless, I'd love for you to go check them out. Get a free variety pack, a $25 value and 10% off for life. When you head to davidprotein.com slash finding mastery.

That's David D A V I D protein P RE-I-N.com slash finding mastery. Okay. This week's conversation is with Vicky Golden, professional freestyle motocross rider and four time X game gold medalist. Vicky's the first female member of the SoCal freestyle motocross team, metal militia. If you're in that space, you know what they stand for. They're super intense. And she also performs in Travis Pastrana's Nitro Circus Tour. So back in 2008, when she was 16, she became Loretta Lynn's AMA Women's Amateur Champion. And then three years later, she earned her first gold medal at the Women's Moto X Racing in the Summer X Games. And she collected her second and third gold medals in

2012. She understands progression, she understands winning, and this is all happening in the most elite competitions in her space. So in addition to becoming the first female competitor in the Moto X Freestyle competition, which resulted in a bronze medal win in the Best Whip category in 2012, Vicky was nominated for the ESPY's Best Female Action Sport Athlete back in 2014. And then earlier this year, back in March, Vicky laid it down again in Auckland, New Zealand, when she landed her first ever FMX backflip off the 15 Next Gen level ramp. It's a fancy thing to say. It's a big, hairy jump and ranking her as the only woman who has flipped one of the largest FMX ramps in the world. I mean, again,

she's living it. She's right at the tip of the arrow. And I was so stoked to have her on this podcast. And I had the fortune of speaking with her only a few days before she performed a record-breaking stunt on History's Evil Live 2, where she sped through a series of flaming wooden boards. And you'll get a chance to hear how she prepared for this event, what was going through her mind in the days leading up to it. And I've always had this deep appreciation for action and adventure sport athletes, those who are pushing the edges of their capacity where there are real consequences when things go wrong. And we obviously get into that, into this conversation. So with that, let's jump right into this conversation with Vicki Golden. What's up, Vicki?

What's going on? How are you? Yeah, good. Stoked to be here with you. Yeah, me too. So we're two days in before your event. Yeah, pretty crazy. I know.

All right, so typically when you're two days in before something that you're about to do, what is it like for you? Mainly just trying to keep on a good schedule of sleeping, eating, and trying to do everything I can to be prepared as I can. Pretty much. You sound like a professional. I, that's what they call me. I don't know. Okay. So walk people through how you spend most of your time. Most of my time I sleep, eat, breathe, and dirt bikes bikes that's pretty much what my world is surrounded by is all dirt bikes when did you first get on a bike i first got on a bike when i was seven years old okay so pretty young yeah it's actually pretty late for our sport too you hear a lot of folks that are on like at three and like you know barely can walk and yeah pretty much you're born

on to them and i actually had what you know seven doesn't walk. And yeah, pretty much you're born onto them. And I actually had what, you know, seven doesn't sound like a late start, but in our industry, it actually is. What has been the cost of only having one sport? The upside is obvious, right? Lots of time figuring things out, tinkering, you know, like becoming really familiar. But what has been a cost to one sport if you will uh the

cost of being the one sport is that you're not good at any other sports that's obvious right yeah yeah do you not play any other sports um yeah we tinker around in other sports but ultimately we get pissed off frustrated because i'm not very good at them so competition starts getting the best of you when you suck at something you're like I don't want to do this anymore do you think of yourself as being uber competitive oh yeah for sure everything that um any of friends boyfriend everything that we do is is a competition for sure okay walk walk me through early days like what was it like early days growing up early days growing up uh you know it's crazy I really don't have like, memories of too much things that happened in school or school plays, dances or anything. Just all my childhood

is surrounded by riding dirt bikes. Like all my memories come from dirt bikes. Really? Okay. Did parents ride? My dad used to ride. Yeah, he was a big fan of pretty much anything two wheels. And so was my brother growing up. So yeah, a big fan of pretty much anything, two wheels. And so it was my brother growing up. So yeah, we were kind of born into it because my dad, what part of the world, Southern California in San Diego. Yeah. There's a circuit of riders down there for sure. Absolutely. Yeah. Temecula. Yeah. And that's where you are. Yeah. I live in Temecula Marietta now, which is like you said, it's the heart of it like you can't travel a mile without seeing a dirt bike or in the back of a truck or a dirt bike shop or of some sort you know that's the

heart of motocross right there it's weird like there are hotbeds you've heard that yeah phrase there's hotbeds like russia for ballet maryland or i'm sorry not maryland virginia is it maryland or virginia for basketball? There's like a little hotbed there for sure. Like the city that we're in Hermosa, Manhattan for volleyball. Right. Um, and so you just happened to be born in a hotbed with a, a brother and a dad that were into it. Yeah, I'm sure that helped. I mean, they had to get into it somehow and I'm sure that's the reason they got into it. And then I was just surrounded by it. You know, there wasn't a way to get away from it. At what age did they acknowledge that you were better than them?

I think I started getting faster than like my dad or my friend's dads i think i was getting around uh like the 85 cc motorcycles and i was probably maybe 12 12 or 13 and i started being able like keep up with them or like kind of battle with them and they were getting like no way this isn't this shouldn't be happening yet so h12 85 cc's and they're on like what 250s fifties or one twenty five. One twenty five. Two fifties. And you're keeping up with them at that point. Yeah. Come on.

Yeah. It's pretty crazy. OK, so I want to take this in two directions. One is I really want to know what it was like for you and adults because you're as fast as them or faster and how they treated you off track. Like, let's go down that path what do you remember any of that like how adults treated me yeah um i think they pretty much treated me like you know just one of their kids you know all the parents had kids riding so i was just you know one of their kids type thing and my dad got hurt from riding it, I think when I was about 12 or 13. So I started

getting kind of shipped off with another family to do these races so I could keep going and progress. So at that, you know, I was just up a part of another family too. So it kind of made it cool just because that other family treated me so great. Um, and they rode with me, took me riding. So, um, Todd, the, the dad of that family, Todd Freestat, he, he was the one I battled with all the time. And he was like, dude, I can't believe it. Like, I didn't think this would happen. And he's like, you're, you're on an 80 and you're a girl on an 80. He was just like, couldn't believe it. And so did he have boys? Yeah, he had three boys that all rode. And you were faster than them?

Well, I wasn't faster than them, but they were already a bit older, already faster than their dad. But they were on big bikes already. They were on 250Fs and 450s. So he kind of already expected them to be faster than him. Okay. And then what was that like? Now, this is the other way I wanted to go inside your head. If you could go back to eight, nine, 10, 11, 12, that kind of range. What was it like in there? What were you thinking about? Like seeing

these grown adults and thinking that you could go faster than them, but maybe I'm taking down a path that's not right. Maybe you weren't even thinking about them. I really wasn't. I wasn't really thinking about doing that stuff. And yeah, I mean, when he brought it up, I'm like, Oh, that's a fun challenge. Like now I want to beat him. But I just, I just grew up loving riding dirt bikes. There wasn't much past that. I didn't think much past that, Whatever it took to be able to ride my dirt bike, that's all I focused on. Okay. What was school like? School was good. Pretty basic, easy. I knew what it took to stay on my dirt bike. My parents said, if you keep up good grades, you can keep riding your dirt bike. So school was never an issue to me. I kept up with my schoolwork, always had good grades. I just wanted to make sure like,

as long as I could ride my dirt bike, I never wanted to get in trouble to even chance getting taken my dirt, get my dirt bikes taken away. So I was a, I was a really good kid in school. Okay. So you're a, you're what we call like a true competitor. You've got your stuff in line, right? It's not like recklessly, um, part of your life. It's like, you've got your order, your priorities and orders in line, and you're making sure that you're taking care of work to go do the thing that you love. Yeah, absolutely. And that was at a young age. Is that still true today?

Yeah, absolutely. Unfortunately, my brother was the opposite. He didn't really do well in school or he was just kind of the, he kind of just made a lot of mistakes growing up. And I was able to look at that and say, this is what I don't want to do. How much older? He's seven years older than me. Okay. So that's almost like, let's say I think around five or six years that it's like a, uh, only being an only child. Yeah. Was that close? Um, you know, me and my brother were still pretty close growing up. We, we had a lot of fighting going on, like typical sibling rivalry goes, but no, my brother was pretty great when it came to, to riding at least. Um, I was still

the annoying little sister that bugged him all the time, but when it came down to it, he would always, at least, you know, if I had a special race coming up, he would always make a point to be there or help me with my bikes or anything like that. You know, he was really, really hands on when it came to the dirt bike world because he knew he loved riding too. And so did I. So we had that, you know, good bond for growing up riding dirt bikes together. Okay. There's two things I don't want to gloss over. One is your dad, that he got hurt. I don't know if that's significant or, or it was just kind of like he

got hurt and then I don't know, like what, what happened there? Uh, yeah, unfortunately he had, we had a local motocross track and every Monday it was, uh, they put like vet riders and quad practice together and it was pretty much just just that there weren't no kids allowed no no little bikes nothing like that so that was just a day that he went and rode and it was kind of his day type thing so he went out to one of those practices no one else really went with him and he ended up colliding with a quad and he got paralyzed from that what type of parosis uh he was about mid chest down he still had his arm so he wasn't full um but yeah he uh he was a paraplegic and you know struggled with it he was never one of those those um scenarios where you bounce back and can do pretty much everything

he just never could really bounce back, but he definitely fought his hardest to try. And you say, it sounds like he's passed. He did pass away. Okay. Yeah. When did that happen? Uh, that happened about almost two years ago. Oh, so it's pretty fresh still. Yeah. Yeah, pretty fresh still. Thankfully, I guess with my world, I'm pretty busy, so I can keep my mind off it. But, yeah, it was tough for my mom because she was actually his caregiver too. So she was just with him 24-7. So she struggled with it. But, you know, she's getting better now.

She's really trying to kind of turn her life not turn her life around, but just adjust things. She kind of let herself go, didn't eat right. And she started feeling the effects from it within the year. And then this following year, she, you know, started eating better and she lost a bunch of weight. So, yeah, really proud of her for everything that she's been able to come back from. So at age 12, when your dad has the worst accident, you know, one of the worst accidents you can imagine, how does that impact you at all?

It did, but I think thankfully, like I was too young to really like fully understand it. It was, I wasn't there, I didn't see it. You know, there's nothing really that, you know, negative for a while that I got to like experience. Obviously when he, he stayed in the hospital for a long time and my mom didn't really want me to go visit him at all just because he was in rough shape. So I didn't really have much understanding when I was young. So I think that probably helped just because I was

just a little too young. Maybe it was, would have been different if I was like 15 or 16, but I think I was just too young to fully understand it. What was the family philosophy about riding and crashing? Uh, there wasn't really one about crashing. It was more about quitting. There wasn't that they made it. They told me, uh, no bad habits and quitting is a bad habit. So I kind of turned that around and made it. So I have a bad habit of not quitting. Got it. Okay. So part of the operating philosophy for your family was no bad habits. Your, your brother didn't necessarily pick that, that one up. He missed that. He missed that step. But maybe they learned it from him. Yeah. And then they infused it with you. So then you take that and you said, okay,

I'm going to flip it too. And I'm going to stay too long. Yeah. So sometimes that definitely hurts me because I don't know when to give up and I push too hard. And sometimes it's actually caused me some injuries, but yeah, at least that, at least this way I leave no stones unturned. Okay. Is that, is that more like gym stuff or riding stuff that you're like, I get this picture of like a relentless competitor where you're like, I'm not dropping out of anything. For sure. I mean, that's pretty much my mindset with everything. But yeah, it's definitely hurt me in some areas where, for instance, in racing Supercross, I was going every day nonstop working too hard. And I wasn't qualifying. I wasn't making it. I was just, you know, a little bit off. So I would go home and work harder. Okay, so in that relentlessness, what is it that you're searching for? Uh, just to, to make the goal I set out for myself, I set a goal to qualify for a night show on a super cross, which is an all men's sport. And I wanted to qualify for it.

And I was getting just, you know, just off the bubble where I needed to be. So I'd go home and work harder. Well, I did that for 17 weekends straight and developed Epstein-Barr. Oh, so you really take it. I worked too hard. Yeah. All right, so walk us through Epstein-Barr. It's pretty miserable. I thought it was kind of like Bigfoot. I thought it was this made-up thing that athletes use as an excuse.

You thought it was Bigfoot. You thought it was a thing that like walked in. I thought it was fake. I thought it was an excuse when an athlete's not doing as well as he wants. And he's like, Oh, I got Epstein-Barr and just kind of, that's their excuse. You know, there's no real, yeah. And I just thought it was, that's what it was just an excuse. But I learned really quickly that it's not. What were your symptoms?

I had, uh, every, almost every symptom throughout the months on end that I had it. I would feel like I had a cold one weekend and then it would go into nausea the next, then it would kind of affect my brain the way like men like memories and not being able to really focus. Um, a lot, a lot of nausea fatigue. I was always tired. It affected my mood too. It was just every single symptom. I pretty much had it start to finish. I had it for almost a full year. It took a year to a year. Yeah. I mean, I didn't, I dug myself a big hole before we even realized I had it. I think I found it, found out that I had it. Um, there were 17 weekends of racing and 18 weekends and I found out at week 17. So there's only one weekend of racing left when I found it, found out that I actually had it. So we did, it took forever to find out that's what it was. So looking back, what are some of the signs, like folks that don't understand it? Like what are some signs that you'd say, Hey,

listen, if this type of thing is happening and I've seen bars, one of those weird ones where the, it's not a tight diagnosis. It's not. And and that's what's tough to even diagnose it or even to watch for the signs because it's all pretty common stuff feeling like you're gonna you're getting sick sore throat um tired fatigue beaten down yeah in a way where like small little internal knickknacks yeah and but when but when they compound, it's like, whoa, there's something wrong with my immune system here. Yeah, for sure. And yeah, I just didn't know. I thought I was getting sick. And then I kind of feel a little bit better and then go back to feeling kind of crappy again. And it just it

never was set in stone. Like you have one set symptom for this one set diagnosis. It's just not like that. If you look at the list for Epstein-Barr, it's almost endless. So it's just, it's tough to really call and you should have like, you know, outside looking in, you should be able to see it, but we're athletes, we work hard every day. So it's, it's hard to find when you know where that line is. And now I'm very aware of it. And now I'm very, I guess, scared of where that line is and now I'm very aware of it and now I'm very I guess scared of pushing that line so oh that's interesting so because you you got right up on the razor's edge stayed there too long didn't recover properly so I love the concept I think it's a necessary

concept to get on the edge retract get on the edge, retract, get on the edge again, retract. Yeah. I just never retracted. You weren't retracting. Was that more psychological or physiological? Um, it was, it was hard because it was a, it was both because I was a first woman doing, making this attempt to qualify. There was so much extra stuff that comes with it that not every athlete. Yeah. Tell me what those are um well one just a lot of press and that felt like my i'll go through my week and it was monday uh ride then gym tuesday ride gym fly out wednesday um california base so i was flying to the east coast that would be wednesday thursday wake up at 4 a.m., do press, ride my dirt bike

at 5 in the morning until the sun comes up, then pass into the afternoon of doing press interviews or riding for press. Same thing on Friday morning. And then I would stay even longer because that's when all the industry type media would show up. And then Saturday was race day. So then I would put it all on the line on Saturday. And then if I didn't make it pissed off, fly home Sunday and try even harder the following week. And that there was no off day. My flying days were my recovery day, which isn't a real recovery day. And I don't know if people can appreciate just how taxing riding is. When we look at heart rates My flying days were my recovery day, which isn't a real recovery day. We're not sure if that's because of like just the constriction of holding on or we're not exactly sure. But the tax to ride at your level is incredible. Absolutely. I mean, I don't know the last like official study, but for the longest time we were pretty much set.

Motocross was the first or second most physically demanding sport. So to put that, you know, in that kind of perspective, yeah, like you have to be working hard all the time. Finding Mastery is brought to you by Momentous. When it comes to high performance, whether you're leading a team, raising a family, pushing physical limits, or simply trying to be better today than you were yesterday. What you put in your body matters. And that's why I trust Momentous.

From the moment I sat down with Jeff Byers, their co-founder and CEO, I could tell this was not your average supplement company. And I was immediately drawn to their mission, helping people achieve performance for life. And to do that, they developed what they call the Momentus Standard. Every product is formulated with top experts and every batch is third-party tested. NSF certified for sport or informed sport. So you know exactly what you're getting. Personally, I'm anchored by what they call the Momentus 3.

Protein, creatine, and omega-3. And together, these foundational nutrients support muscle recovery, brain function, and long-term energy. They're part of my daily routine. And if you're ready to fuel your brain and body with the best, Momentus has a great new offer just for our community right here. Use the code FINDING MASTERY for 35% off your first subscription order at livemomentous.com. Again, that's L-I-V-E, momentous, M-O-M-E-N-T-O-U-S, livemomentous.com, and use the code FINDINGMASTERY for 35% off your first subscription order. Finding Mastery is brought to you by Felix Gray.

I spend a lot of time thinking about how we can create the conditions for high performance. How do we protect our ability to focus, to recover, to be present? And one of the biggest challenges we face today is our sheer amount of screen time. It messes with our sleep, our clarity, even our mood. And that's why I've been using Felix Grey glasses. What I appreciate most about Felix Gray is that they're just not another wellness product. They're rooted in real science. Developed alongside leading researchers and ophthalmologists, they've demonstrated these types of glasses boost melatonin, help you fall asleep faster, and hit deeper stages of rest. When I'm on the road and bouncing around between time zones, slipping on my Felix

Gray's in the evening, it's a simple way to cue my body just to wind down. And when I'm locked into deep work, they also help me stay focused for longer without digital fatigue creeping in. Plus, they look great. Clean, clear, no funky color distortion. Just good design, great science. And if you're ready to feel the difference for yourself, Felix Gray is offering all Finding Mastery listeners 20% off. Just head to FelixGray.com and use the code FindingMastery20 at checkout. Again, that's Felix Gray. You spell it F-E-L-I-X-G-R-A-Y.com and use the code FindingMastery20 at FelixGray.com for 20% off. Okay, so there's physical getting up on the edge, and then there's mentally getting on the edge, and then the same for recovery. So how do you do the psychological recovery piece? The psychological part is definitely harder for me. I don't do nothing very well.

Most people don't. They really care. It's really a hard thing. I don't do nothing very well. And I, most people don't really care. Like I really struggle. Yeah. I really struggle with, with recovery. I actually physically and mentally, because I see,

I cannot sit still. Like I hate, I can't sit on the couch and watch TV. It's just, I can probably do like a 30 minute episode and then I have to go somewhere or do something. And I think that came from after Epstein bar of just being stuck on the couch for months on end. I did my like lifetime sentence of couch life. So I just,

I don't do nothing very well. Okay. Got it. So I'm imagining that meditation, mindfulness work has been hard if not non-existent even. Yeah, pretty much. Uh, I do it. I do that type of stuff when, you know, I have something big and important coming up. And then after that, it's just like, okay, I've been sitting here for like 20 minutes. Maybe I should go like work on my bike or go to the gym or do something that I feel like I'm always having to like, make sure I'm putting back into my program. Do you feel, I'm just getting a picture. Like, do you feel unsettled, like internally unsettled, scratchy or like

just restless? If I'm not riding pretty much, I'm always, I always, it's hard because my job is my hobby too. So like, even if I feel like I have to go ride, there's some days where I don't, but I'm like, I want to go ride. So it's, it's kind of a tough one to separate. I hear that. And at the same time, I'm thinking like, it's, I think it's way harder to go through life when you can't do the thing that you love. For sure. Right. Whether it's an extra hobby and you're tired, fatigued, or don't have the money or resources or time to do it, whether it's guitar, writing or whatever. But the idea that you get to do both, there's another compromise, right? Which is like it's hard to separate them.

And a lot of people, in fairness, they say, like, I started playing this sport or this thing and then it became a business and I don't love it anymore. Right. But you haven't had that. There's moments where I get like that for sure. But it don't love it anymore. Right. But you haven't had that. There's moments where I get like that for sure, but it doesn't last very long. Yeah. Cool. So what is it that you love about writing? What, what, where does that come from? What does it feel like inside of you? Cause what I'm want to tap into is this concept of passion, right? Like the animation of passion. So walk me through what that's like for you.

It's just, it's a feeling that just never gets old, you know, like no matter what you're doing in life, even if you don't have a sport you go to, if even if it's when you want to unwind and you read a book, it's that same feeling of just like, man, like this is what I want to do right now. And I get to do it. And it's like, it's also my getaway too. So it's, it's my job, but it's still, like I said, it's still my hobby. So whatever you do to do your getaway, whether it's go play golf, go play basketball just for fun or something, you know, that's the same feeling of just getting to do whatever you want to do that you love.

And you get to just not think about anything. If you have a business meeting, doctor's appointments coming up, like none of that matters because you're just focusing on, on whatever, you know, that sport or whatever you're that task at hand. Yeah. So you're, you're like talking in a really concrete way, but you're also speaking about something very Zen. Yeah. Right. Yeah. It's like getting completely absorbed and lost in the task at hand, the thing that you're doing, whether it's a conversation or, you know, kick it on your bike. Exactly. Like there's literally nothing better than when you get, you know, a couple of your friends and you just, we go ride. And the crazy part is, is for freestyle, normally we only have one jump.

And that's all we ride for like a couple hours is just one jump. We don't change it. We don't really do anything different, but we're practicing different tricks in the air. But we're still riding the same one jump. So it's one of those things where you're like, it sounds completely boring that you're just jumping the same jump over and over and over. But there's so much consequence at stake, though. Yeah, for sure. You have to be switched on for it.

Yeah, for sure. And we are the whole time. But it's just that much better when you get a couple of friends and you try, you know, maybe learning a new trick that nobody's tried before. So you're all sitting there trying the same trick, trying to progress and who can who can learn the trick first. Like that's what the best days are made of, of just riding with your friends and trying to push each other. OK, so I want to hold here for a minute. That's what the best days are made of. When you're with your friends pushing limits. Yeah, I mean, that's what you started as a kid. You just ride dirt bikes, put, you know, the motocross track, you just riding around,

putting in laps, maybe messing around or finding a new jump out in the hills. And you're, you know, who's going to jump at first and you're all sitting there waiting for someone to go. And it's just that, just that feeling and just feeding off each other. And it's not for set money or competitions. It's just pride pretty much and who can say they jumped it first and who jumped it last or something. And just friend competition. I can't tell you how much I relate to it. Yeah. And so are you more interested?

You're really serious. You're super intense, aren't you? When it comes down to the competitions and stuff like that, for sure. Even now, like you're pretty serious and intense you're not goofy silly whatever nonchalant like you take your craft seriously you're really intense and i i'm looking at you right now as if you want to say dude no i mean it's it's both like there's a time and place for it and when we do more of like our natural circus live shows those are more like the fun goofy things that it's pretty light-hearted and we don't have any like gnarly competitions so it's super light-hearted and that's when you get to kind of let loose and

have fun but yeah when it comes down to the serious stuff where you're doing something maybe you're not comfortable with that's when I definitely buckle down and make sure everything's on point. Okay. So let's go back to the best days, right? With your friends and you're pushing limits, you know, you're getting up on boundaries. Are you more interested in progression or are you more interested in the social set of it? Or is it really the combination of both it's it's the combination of both it just makes it when you're trying to progress it makes it not feel like work because there's still some days where yeah I every day I go out and make okay I want to do this trick a little bit better change it this way or learn this trick and make this trick better so like there's still goals I set out every day for practice, but when you just have all your friends there, it just makes it so much easier to push yourself and do these tricks, especially like, it's kind of like just when you have someone

else that you're struggling with or whatever it is, it's just, it's just easier to do as a group. And there is something about when, when you line it up and it all clicks, the thing that you have in your head that you're trying to sort out to actually do. And there's a witness there. And I wish there's, don't get me wrong. Like there's something really great when you're the only one that feels it, knows it and see, you know, like, but there, I don't know why I wish you, I almost wish I didn't feel that way. It feels like it's not as pure, but there's something really special when there's a group of people who know, I'm not talking about like folks that don't know, but who really know what it takes and they see it

and they're like, yeah, it's just, it's just really cool being able to share those kinds of moments with, with more than just yourself. Like it's just that feeling when you nail that trick or whatever you're trying to do. And then you have all your buddies come over just as stoked as you are. Like it just makes it that much better. Are you more interested in the thrill of it or the knowing of it, the knowing of what it takes or the feeling and thrill that comes with being able to command your mind and your body in air inverted with consequence. Yeah. I mean, I definitely liked that part of it for sure. Just the thrill of it. Yeah. Because once I know that I've had a trick dialed, like that's the best feeling because I know I can do it, you know,

on demand and it's not scary anymore. I fought through all the scary parts and it's just like an easy trick for me now. And it's, it's also too, when you finally do it for the first time, a trick, any trick that you haven't done before, and you finally start, you baby step towards it a little bit. And then when you finally do like a fully extended trick and you finally start you baby step towards it a little bit and then when you finally do like a fully extended trick and you're like that was that was scary it felt like you were gonna crash you're gonna die and then you were able to do it like it's just a really cool feeling just it sounds weird because you're scaring yourself into like for fear and it's scary but it's what we kind of strive for okay so walk me through a time and let's see if we can conjure up a real time in your mind

that you've experienced that you've maybe done it in a foam pit. Maybe not. Okay. But you're, you're on your bike helmet on, and you're about to go for something and you're not totally sure that you can do it, right? So you're on the edge, your body switched on, your mind is in it. Like walk me through what that is like for you, because most people have no idea what that's like because they play it safe. They play it small. They play it conservatively. They talk a big game, but then find themselves in very rare and few opportunities to truly test themselves. So this is a, and you do this on a regular basis. Yeah, it's crazy. I literally do this every time I ride. Ooh, keep going. There's a practice day where I just run through the tricks I know that are easy for me and go home. I'm always trying to learn a new trick, learn something, and I strive off progression.

So if I feel like I did all the tricks I already know, then I didn't progress, which probably isn't true, but that's the way I think. Okay, so helmet on, sitting on your bike, you feel that rattle. Usually there's some heat associated because we're talking about Temecula in Southern California. What's happening? What is it like when you're about to face down? How do you do that when you're about to face it? Give me a trick that you've been working on. Um, so lately I just learned what we call double knacks and double knack indies um it's kind of where you you're not jumping perfectly straight you kind of whip your bike to the side so your your rear end will be kind of left or right instead of just straight behind the front wheel and then you or i will jump

off kind of parallel with the handlebars and basically kind of super out. Which means that you're off of your bike completely? Yeah, I'm holding on with just my handlebars and my legs are kind of kicked out where my rear end kind of should be. What is it when you completely let go of your bike? What's that called? It depends on which trick, where you're going with that trick. But if you let go of kind of your bike still in the rider position and you do no hands, no feet, that's called a nothing. Nothing.

If you let go of your bike and kind of push your bike away and then grab it by your seat, that's kind of called a holy grab. And then there's where you can. A holy what grab? Holy grab. Yeah. As in, holy shit, this could go wrong. Kind of, or kind of, yeah, pretty much. And then there's also one where you kind of go ladder to your seat and you're holding on your seat with two hands.

And then you let go from there and your feet are already kicked out behind you. And how many feet up are we talking? When we ride, our distance is about 75 feet. And then we probably are about 40 feet up are we talking? When you, when we ride, we go, our distance is about 75 feet and then we probably are about 40 feet up or so. So yeah, we're up there, but yeah, just every time you learn these tricks, it's scary. I mean, okay. So go back into how you manage that fear, sitting on your bike, helmet on. I mean, you can kind of baby step it to a point and just kind of get a feeling

um but you know when it comes down to actually doing it you just have to tell yourself like to finally go for it you kind of get comfortable with the baby steps as close as you can get to doing the full trick but then you kind of actually just have to for it. And that's when you have to scare yourself in order to make it not scary. What does that mean? It means I pretty much do whatever scares me. And if I do it enough times, then it's not scary. Got it. And then how do you manage that fear before you're in it?

You just kind of try not to think about it. That's the best, best way is just to try and not to think about what could go wrong. Yeah. Just how scary it is going to be or what could go wrong. And then, um, that's kind of when you turn to, to hit the ramp. That's kind of when we kind of say like we have an off switch in our brain and we just flip the switch off and just do it. And what do you say to yourself to flip that switch? And we're like, what happens when you flip it? Just kind of talk to yourself a little bit and like, all right, like this is, this is it. Like it's go time. And then you just flip the switch.

So it's go time. And then at that moment, that switch, um, I don't, have you ever heard of catching a case of the buckets? Yeah. Right. Like, right. Is it like that or is it different? It's kind of like that, but you don't catch the case. You just, you just turn, you turn it on, turn it on or off. Yeah. And what you're talking about is turning off worry, anxiety, fear, you're turning that

off. And then what are you turning on? I, I, at that point, I'm just trying to let my talent take over because I know I'm, I have the ability. I just have to let my brain stop thinking about the dangers and all the, all the things, all the native, and just trust that my talent, my skill and ability will be able to handle this. That's it right there. Pretty much. That's exactly it. You know, and that is uniquely you and it's universally all of us.

Absolutely. You know, that's a unique thing that you do that you just described. It's organic, but that is the mechanism for all of us. And it's really hard to do, to override a survival brain mechanism to say, you shouldn't be doing this. Like this is dangerous, right? But then you don't get the good stuff. Yeah, absolutely. Stay comfortable and safe. Yeah. I mean, you don't get the bad stuff for sure. But you know, that once you get that feeling of risking it all, and you know what could go wrong, or it has gone wrong before. So you know

the consequences, you've felt the consequences, but you still go for it. And when you actually get to reap the benefits and feel the feeling, then that's what makes it all worth it. Finding Mastery is brought to you by Cozy Earth. Over the years, I've learned that recovery doesn't just happen when we sleep. It starts with how we transition and wind down. And that's why I've built intentional routines into the way that I close my day.

And Cozy Earth has become a new part of that. Their bedding, it's incredibly soft, like next level soft. And what surprised me the most is how much it actually helps regulate temperature. I tend to run warm at night, and these sheets have helped me sleep cooler and more consistently, which has made a meaningful difference in how I show up the next day for myself, my family, and our team here at Finding Mastery. It's become part of my nightly routine. Throw on their lounge pants or pajamas, crawl into bed under their sheets, and my nervous system starts to settle. They also offer a 100-night sleep trial and a 10-year warranty on all of their bedding, which tells me, tells you that they believe in the long-term value of

what they're creating. If you're ready to upgrade your rest and turn your bed into a better recovery zone, use the code FINDINGMASTERY for 40% off at CozyEarth.com. That's a great discount for our community. Again, the code is Finding Mastery for 40% off at CozyEarth.com. Finding Mastery is brought to you by Caldera Lab. I believe that the way we do small things in life is how we do all things. And for me, that includes how I take care of my body. I've been using Caldera Lab for years now. And what keeps me coming back, it's really simple. Their products are simple. And they reflect the kind of intentional living that I want to build into every part of my day.

And they make my morning routine really easy. They've got some great new products I think you'll be interested in. A shampoo, conditioner, and a hair serum. With Caldera Lab, it's not about adding more. It's about choosing better. And when your day demands clarity and energy and presence, the way you prepare for it matters. If you're looking for high quality personal care products that elevate your routine without complicating it, I'd love for you to check them out. Head to calderalab.com

slash finding mastery and use the code finding mastery at checkout for 20% off your first order. That's calderalab, C-A-L-D-E-R-L-A-B.com slash finding mastery. Okay. So when I told one of my friends, Dr. Chris Prosser, who is a mutual acquaintance of yours, right? I told him that we're doing this today and he lit up and glowed with like, what a special human you are. Oh, that's right. Yeah. And so why is that? Why would somebody else recognize that in you? Cause I'm watching you right now and I'm like, there's something really cool inside of you. That's different. It's just really different I I don't know I couldn't tell you I just I just like riding my dirt bike and I don't make it so simple don't make it so simple

I don't know I just have fun and you know life is good I couldn't answer that question because I don't know I don't I don't see it as anything special. I just love riding my dirt bikes. And we have a great crew on Nitro that we all have fun. We're all talented athletes. But we're just goofy. We like to hang out, have fun. And at the end of the day, we go do a couple jumps. It's pretty crazy.

World's first happened. Stoked for each other. And then we go on to the next show. Okay. Let me get out of bounds here a little bit what is your moral compass like how so like there's lots of different ways to risk at least five financial risk physical risk social risk emotional risk and there's one called moral risk you know it's like like getting on the edge of doing things that you know are not

right and so we could fill in the blanks of what all those things are. Yeah. But I'm wondering if he's what he saw in you and what I'm sensing is a something about your moral compass, but I'm completely making that up. Maybe I mean, as far as that kind of stuff goes, I mean, I'm always down to, to help anyone that needs help. I'm always, I definitely have that moral compass, the karma type feeling. I'm definitely not gonna be a shady human being or anything like that. I mean, I just, if, if anyone wants help riding dirt bikes or help off the bike, like I'm always there to help them if they need help. Yeah. I just, I just believe in being a good human being.

And where'd you learn that? Where'd that come from? Definitely my family. And then where did they learn their moral code from? I'm guessing their families, you know, it just probably just goes down the line, you know? I mean, my mom's the most selfless person I've ever met. Like I try and talk her into being selfish and she still won't do it sometimes. Yeah. Okay. What just happened for you? The way that you talked about mom?

Yeah. I just, I just, it's blown. It blows me away how selfish she is. Yeah. Where do you feel it? Because it was obvious what you just felt it too, right? Yeah, for sure. Where did you feel it?

It just, it's just kind of an overwhelming feeling of how selfish she's been my whole entire life. And where is that in your body? Obviously my heart. You feel it in your heart? Yeah. And if you were to let that move, where would it go? I guess to my brain, because I just don't understand it. Yeah. Yeah. And does it, do you notice it move up into your neck at all? I guess so. Yeah. Yeah. And so it goes up rather than down into your stomach. Maybe it goes both. Um, yeah, it's just kind of an overwhelming feeling when, when I think about all the stuff she's done. Is this gratitude? Oh yeah. This is, so what, what we're experiencing right now is like the fullness of gratitude. Oh, yeah, absolutely.

Could you cry if you stayed with this or is it not that type of feeling? Probably if I stayed with it long enough. But at the same time, I get used to talking about everything that she's done for me. So I kind of get used to it. But at the same time, I still get like the same feeling. Yeah. And so this isn't sadness? No, not really.

Oh, there's a little bit. A little bit for sure. But mostly just because of I know everything she gave up. But she's so stoked to see where I'm at. So it's hard not to be grateful. How do you use that in helping you be better? I pretty much used it at a young age. I saw how hard my mom worked and she would put her hard earned money into my program at 12, 13, all the way until I think I was pretty much like 18. Just putting into my program. So I knew how hard

she was working and I wasn't going to waste it. So your system, your internal ecosystem is that high moral compass, um, work ethic was high. Um, maybe they didn't quite deal with all of the emotional stuff, like from your father's injury and stuff. But you took and channeled that into wanting to repay them in the thing that you love. They supported it. And so what ends up taking place for you is pretty simple, which is I'm going to go as far as I possibly can. And then you broke glass ceiling, so to speak, by being a female in an industry that is predominantly male and you've earned it, right? You've earned the credibility from your, your colleagues. Yeah, I guess I have. It's, uh, it's pretty crazy to really think about because when I was a kid,

it's just not, it wasn't my goal. Like I watched super cross growing up, but I was never like, oh, I could be out there doing this or that. It was just, I was just riding and working on the, you know, the next race coming up. I was kind of always like kept my head down and I worked and I just kept progressing, but I never really like picked my head up and looked around, so to speak. I just always pushing and never really like, like when I'm at, you know, 14 years old, I'm not making a list of, I'm going to qualify for

Supercross and be the first female. I'm going to do this and be the first female. It was just like, it kind of like became a thought of like, oh, maybe I feel, I feel like I'm pretty good at this. Maybe I should go to the next level. Well, there's no next level for the women's side of it or at all. So I was just like, well, I'll just go, go race the men then it wasn't, yeah, it just wasn't like a set goal of like, Oh, there's no women in this. So I need to go do it. Yeah. You're not, you're not the token female in the industry. Like you are like, listen, uh, I'm fast and I can go big and my skills are legit. Like, what are some of the skills that men are doing that women are not able to

do yet? I think just take, take it to, uh, you know, that next level in racing, which is, or even in freestyle, it's just, there's just at such a high competitive level and, but it's not really a male or female thing it's just it's not a strength thing like um in many sports like jumping higher is like a basketball like men can jump higher yeah i don't know if every man can jump as you know i don't know that that data but it seems that way at least right i mean like if if we go down to science there's obviously

differences male and female. Like that's how it works. That's how it's supposed to be. We're not created equal for a reason. So, yeah, there's going to be differences and men are going to be better at certain things like that for a reason. With motocross, you can kind of get away with it. And that's not really male or female. It's just even body build. Um, we have guys that are shorter than me. I'm five, seven maybe. And there's guys shorter than me out there killing it. And there's guys, you know, that weigh less than me killing it. And there's guys that weigh, you know, 200 pounds that are still killing it. So like, there's just a broad spectrum of body builds and athletes that are still killing it. It's just when it comes down to it, just, uh, I guess the level of the sport

you're at. I mean, we're all sitting here and being professionals, but yeah, it's just, there's guys that I ride with that don't want to go to that next level, whether it be injury or they're maybe too old to do it, or they just don't want to go there because, you know, not everyone wants to do body varials on their dirt bike and double backflips. You know, those are gnarly, gnarly tricks. So it's just, some people just don't want to go there. So that brings us right to something that you're doing in two days, which is you're going to break through a bunch of barriers that are on fire. So walk through what's at stake and what it is that you're going to be challenging yourself to do. Well, I mean, the obvious part at stake is not being burnt alive.

That's the obvious one. You laugh, kind kinda? Yeah. It's kind of one of those things where if you're going to cry about it, just laughter comes out. So yeah, I mean, nobody wants to get lit on fire. So it's definitely an obvious danger. But yeah, it's just one of those things where E Evil Knievel started this whole thing. Like everything that we do today is because of evil. So to be able to do this type of tribute for him and attempt this world record, it's just a privilege is what it is. Okay, so the nature is that you're going to be how many yards behind or feet behind the first board? Um, I think we set it about maybe 200 feet or so, just so I can

kind of get up to speed in the right body positioning and things like that. Okay. What will that look like? Um, what gear will you hit? How fast will you be going? I've been in, I'll click second gear and then I'll probably aim to be around like 31, 32 miles an hour. Any less, obviously we get into the part of not actually going through the walls. And then any more, it just starts hurting me more. So 30, 31, 32 is like the good range to be in just because the two points of contact are the front of the motorcycle and then my forehead. So it just starts hurting more and I don't really want to get knocked out during this whole process either. How many times have you trained it or done it? I think we've done maybe

three days, three or four days. Okay. It doesn't sound like a lot, but you know, you can fit a lot into a day. for sure okay and is it 12 12 is the record we're gonna do 13 you're gonna do 13 okay and they'll all be on fire all of them and you'll have practice with some fire by now yeah we've done a little bit with uh with fire but um a lot of it's just to make sure every obviously that's what we call testing and practice is to make sure everything is good where with me with um with the bike too just because we had to make changes not really so much for performance for the motorcycle just for to block it from debris so the motorcycle doesn't you know have a mechanical by any means

and then to kind of help push the debris away from me and the bike. So we kind of had to test with that kind of stuff. And then, uh, one of my last test runs that we did, I actually had a board just stuck in my face and it wouldn't come off. So we had to try and figure out a way to, uh, just to make a couple changes and make sure I hopefully am able to see through the whole thing this time. So that one, it got stuck on your visor. Um, we're wearing like a street bike style helmet, so there's no actual like set visor, but, um, yeah, there's like a, the standard like face shield. Yeah.

Um, but it literally got stuck on the face across my face and like, I could barely see out of either eye because the board was just perfectly like in my vision and it was on fire and so I was just my eyes were burning and just trying to keep my eyes open and it just would not leave my face how did you get out of that do you keep going uh yeah I was I stayed calm I think I think uh I was just trying to wait it out and I was like don't panic the next wall surely it'll knock off. Well, I went through the next wall and it didn't come off. So it got stuck there for a couple walls. And it was just to the point where my eyes were burning.

And they were just starting to shut on me. I just couldn't keep them open anymore. So I finally shook the board out of my face. That caused me to swerve a little bit. And thankfully I was near the last, one of the last firewalls. So I was able to kind of swerve back in and go through the last wall we were, we had lined up, but yeah, it, it got pretty sketchy, pretty fast. Okay. So what are some of the danger choke points? How would you get burnt? I know you're going through them, but if you're at 30 miles an hour, 31 miles an hour, you're, the fire's not

going to stay on you. Uh, so the way, you know, I didn't know this before, but the way it kind of works is, you know, we have them spread out about 50 feet apart for each wall. But when you go through the wall, the fire stays with you for a moment and kind of like swarms up in you. It's almost kind of like how if you're going down the freeway and you've seen truck beds, it will cycle in the truck bed. So it's kind of like the wind stays in a circular motion type thing. So it's kind of similar with what the fire is doing. It kind of sweeps and circles in with me and then it it'll dissipate but that takes a little bit it's not immediate is that why they're 50 feet you said did you say kind of yeah about 50 feet apart

is that why or is it something else it'll help for sure it makes it tougher for me because obviously it's longer um but it's it's supposed to kind of help with heat but as soon as i uh as soon as that dissipates i hit the next one so it's never really leaving me it's, it's supposed to kind of help with heat. But as soon as I, uh, as soon as that dissipates, I hit the next one. So it's never really leaving me. It's always going to be there and it's going to be hot. Um, the first couple of tests, you know, with my motocross background, normally I wear paper thin gear and it's lightweight. It's nice. This is the opposite. I'm already wearing like three layers, which is like two layers of what we call Nomex, which is like a fire resistant suit. So we're already thick, heavy, sweaty. And then on top of that, there'll be a full leather

race suit. So I'm wearing a lot of layers. It's already hot. So you would think with all that you wouldn't feel like burning type hot. But even with those layers, I still felt what we call hot spots. And that's like almost, you know, burning pretty much. So we felt a couple of those and try to make some changes with my suits and things like that just to prevent burning. Okay. And then what is your relationship with fire? I mean, I didn't have one before, but now I guess we're trying to be best friends. Okay. So this isn't like you're a fire eater. This isn't like you're fascinated by fire. I knew not to touch it as a young kid cause it's hot. That's about it. Okay. All right. So then what are some of the other unrecognizable to the layperson? I mean, there's the obvious one where, you know, not obvious, but these are pretty set 50 feet apart.

There's no real out. There's not really a good with my speed and my speed and my vision, um, my vision's pretty much blurred. Um, there's not much I can see. So, I mean, when you're in just a swarm of fire, everything looks the same and then there's just no out, there's no, I can't go through a wall. If I'm on wall five, I can't get out. There's, there's separated enough where you think you could, but going at my speed, there's no route. And so what would you do if you were on fire? Uh, well, the fire extinguisher is at the end, so I'll just go to the end. Yeah. So, okay. And then what is the mindset? What is the

right internal dialogue that you want to have at the start? Um, mainly it's pretty much the same as everything focus on everything, you know, focus on getting up to the right speed. I'm in the right position. And then, um, just try not to panic. That's the best thing I can pretty much do just because there's no, can I help you with that? Hopefully. Yeah. Can I say instead of like, try not to do something, it's like, would never say to somebody, don't airball. Yeah. So if we flip that around, like what would you flip? Like how would you – I mean I can make it up for you right now, but like what is it for you?

Yeah. I mean like I said, when I got that board stuck in my face, it kind of gave me a taste of like I had a split second where like, Oh God, what do I do? And then I went, don't panic, just stay, stay in your tuck position, brace for each wall. And then I just kind of went into focusing on what I can do because I can't control this board being stuck. So I try to go through just staying calm and focus on, you know, my speedometer, my form, bracing for the walls and just praying that the end is near. Yeah. I mean, I think that's it. Like it's the C's, right? Yeah.

For sure. Composure. Yeah. You know? Yeah. I mean, there was a split second where I was like, okay, don't panic. Yeah. And then it went into focus on the task at hand after that. And do you say it like that? Do you say, okay, don't panic yeah and then it went into focus on the task at hand after that and do you

say it like that do you say okay yeah don't panic or do you say something like hold on now keep your shit together stay in it we got this let's go i'm sure there's a few curse words that go on in my head isn't that weird that my curse words do something like when we say it inside oh yeah how aware are you of what you actually say to yourself? Or is it more like feel? I mean, I think it's kind of when like time slows down and you kind of feels like you can control more than what people see in a split second. How often do you get into flow state? I'd say when things are going wrong, it feels like time slows down. It's funny because when I'm learning like a new trick in the air, it feels like time speeds up, like the landing comes so much quicker and I don't have

enough of the airtime that I think I do. But, but when everything goes wrong, every like time slows down, like you can go through almost a million scenarios in your head of what to do or what not to do. And then when you finally like pick the one you're going to go with, and then you, you can do it. Like, it's just so weird how our brains are wired for survival. Yeah. So people talk about all the time, like the, the, um, the mystics of meditation and mindfulness, that practice will help you be more syncopated with the present moment, right? Like mindfulness training will do it, but you know what else will do it? Putting yourself right in the midst of danger. Right. Like when your nails are just etching into the side of the cliff, it's like, there's no way that panic

is going to survive, you know know so then we have to be really present with our thoughts yeah so you're better at it than many i thank you i guess it takes a lot of work of what goes wrong to figure it out because it was crazy the uh after i did my first flip uh we actually ended up actually having practice on this setup which is pretty unheard of on tour just because it takes so long to to get everything to the next stop and then set up. So we normally don't even have a lot of practice, especially with this next level set up. And the week after, we ended up getting a practice day. And the week before, one of our riders ended up having, he, he made a, an error and ended up under rotating,

uh, one of his flips. And I watched him nose pick and come in nose heavy and then go over the bars. And he did a last minute tuck and like came out. Okay. And I came in on the practice day in the same scenario where I knew I was under rotating and that flashed into my head. I'm like, well, Bo did Bo tucked, Bo tucked in and he was okay. So all I got to do is like, if I let go now, it's definitely not going to work. If I do this, it's definitely not going to work. I'm like, I'm just going to do a boated and it ended up working. My goodness. There's like one Mississippi and then you've got to make a decision by them. Yeah. But I just, it was so weird because I went through all these scenarios of, of like foam

pit practice, um, like throughout the years of like, when I know I'm under rotating of what I, what I have done before. I'm like, well, that didn't work. This didn't work. That's probably not going to work. And then I just remember just going back to, I'm like, well, Bo just did this last week. I'll just do what he did. And then I just, as soon as I hit, I tucked and I was fine.

It's amazing to have that resource. Yeah. It's unreal to even like think about how we can process all that stuff. And it literally happens. It's the blink of an eye. So your partner in this project was hurt and isn't able to do the event. And when I first heard that that took place, I thought, I wonder how this is going to affect you. And then after hearing about how you work, your framework, your psychological framework,

I have a different thought. So how is it affecting you? Right now, I guess it kind of made it a little bit tougher. You know, I ride with Axel every day. You know, not every day, but we ride a ton together. You know, we have fun. We always push each other. So it's weird because this isn't a team sport like normal. So we normally don't get this team effort type thing. So when we do, it makes it fun.

It makes it something new. And it felt really cool to be able to share all this with someone that's going to be doing something just so gnarly, and we get to do this together. So it was a really cool feeling to have that team vibe and you know unfortunately he he ended up crashing so uh first obviously a day or two or just a couple days before yeah not not long so unfortunately you know the first thing goes to was he okay? He's okay. He had some pretty bad ankle injuries. But for everything that he was doing, for how fast he was going, how far he's jumping, how high he is up in the air, you know,

he should be realistically in the hospital fighting for his life. But he's not. So thankfully, he's okay. And he'll still be able to be there Sunday. But yeah, it was just, it felt like a really special team thing we were doing together. So unfortunately now it's like, feels like more, more pressure is on now because, you know, I thought that, you know, sharing it kind of lightens the load now, you know, it's all, it's all on me now. And so how are you working with that? It's been all right so far. Thankfully there's not much time between, you know, this change and the event. So hopefully I don't, I guess don't overthink it too much cause there's not

enough time to, but yeah, it definitely feels like there's an added pressure now. It actually doesn't change the nature of your task, but the thinking around it, like, okay, all eyes on me, there's no shared, whatever spotlight that you can work yourself into a different way of thinking about it. For sure. And I mean, there's the added thing of he, he went down doing this world record attempts and, you know And that's a very real possibility for me. So it makes the danger of it a bit more real. What would be the worst thoughts that you could have? I'd say going down and getting lit and on fire.

So you don't want to be thinking about that? I try not to. But yeah, I mean, like we talked about, it's something that your mind goes to. You try and not really think about it and just focus at the task at hand. And that's really all you can do. It sounds so mechanical, but it really is. That's the work. Yeah.

And so when the thought comes in that you don't want, what do you do with it? I hit delete. Just keep putting. Just keep pushing the button? Yeah. Is that how you think about it? Delete, I hit delete. I just keep putting, just keep pushing the button. Yeah. Is that, is that how you think about it? Delete, delete, delete. Yeah. I just try and, I mean, realistically I think about it, get nervous. It scares me. And then I just try and change my thought process to something else. Do you feel things in your body or your head mostly? I mean, it's like a, I mean, it's a full, like full body terrifying

feel. I just choose to try and push it away, you know, and I don't, I don't want to feel like that. I don't want to think like that. And it's at the end of the day, a waste of time to think like that. So hopefully, you know, if I focus and put more of my time and effort into everything, how to do everything, how to do it properly, then that's going to be the outcome. Obviously, you want to think about the things that can go wrong and what to do in those scenarios. Like now that the board got stuck in my face, now I'm thinking, well, if that happens again, maybe I can do a quick, you know, toss up with the hand and move it away. And then I can go back to being able to see. So, you know, just stuff like that, where it hurt me, but it can also help me because if it happens again, now I, I know what I could, you know, think about to try to make sure that, you know, I don't get it stuck on my face for

three boards. Yeah. That's what testing is about. Like learn, like I need more information. I need more information, more information so I can do something with the information. Yeah. This is definitely a lot tougher because when I want to do something, I, I'm all about repetition. I want to do it till I can do it with my eyes closed and feel comfortable and confident. Well, this isn't something you should be, should or can be doing, you know, with repetition, you know, I'm bashing my head into a wall. So it's probably not that healthy to continue to do it multiple times. This is not a good thing. Are there any concussion stuff that you're worried about? Not really. Bell makes a great helmet that, you know, I've that I have all the confidence in the world for. So I think that that helmet's doing its job for sure. We probably won't use it again after this it and say, that's not so hard. I mean, all you got to do is talk, go 31 miles an hour straight and talk. Like what, what do you say to that?

You know, there's always going to be the, the haters or the, the people that don't understand what we do. I mean, no matter what we do on dirt bikes, there's always going to be someone saying, well, that's not that hard. You just do this. Or when we're on dirt bikes, there's always going to be someone saying, well, that's not that hard. You just do this. Or when we're on dirt bikes, the main thing people go to for, you know, the physical side of it is, well, the motor, the, you got a motor, you know, so there's always going to be those types of people. And, and then you have the people that totally understand you're playing with fire. You're doing this, you're on a motorcycle, there's gas in the tank. It could explode. Like the people that understand more of the risks and how gnarly it is.

It's the micro decisions that I'm fascinated by. The small little micro decisions that you're going to make at the start, micro decisions as you're entering in to find 31 miles an hour. Is that all by sound? My bike actually has a speedometer. Okay, so you'll be able to gauge that way. Basically, you know, what is a street legal motorcycle, an Indian motorcycle that you can go to the dealership and buy. And that's what we're on. Like I said, we didn't make any performance changes, just changes for the walls and the fire.

But, yeah, I still got a Speedo. And that actually kind of helps give me something to to focus on so I'm pretty much just kind of staying in my tuck and looking up and then looking back down to make sure my speed is is good because I can't really hear the motorcycle as well just because there's fire there's so much going on that normally I am based on sound and sound alone and this is I'm based on a number. So it's really weird to me and something totally different. I'm not used to having to look up and then look down to check how fast I'm going because I already know because that's where we go back to the repetition. I jump something so much, I don't need to know how fast I'm going because I know by feel and by sound

well I haven't done this enough to know feel and sound I just so I have to just rely on the speedo to tell me how fast to go okay so there's a new element there and I'm looking at you right now the size of your forearms are ridiculous that's due to arm pump that now that I don't race as much, uh, those, these things pump up now. I got the death grip back. Yeah, you do. And like, and the, the, like the muscle in between your hands are really noticeable as well. So it's one of the adaptations. I never even noticed. Yeah. So every sport, you know, has a body type adaptation. You know, you look at golfers,

they've got one side of their body. It looks very different than the other. Yeah. I never even thought about that. Yeah. I'm going to definitely like pay attention now. Volleyball players like beach and sand volleyball players, they have like really, um, they're in great shape, but their waist tend to be a little bit wider, you know, it's because there's so much rotation, you know? And so like, and so I'm noticing, I'm always fascinated by the adaptations from people who are world class because you've earned them some people are born with them you know but you've earned them like really strong upper limbs that you have yeah i

think i'm probably backwards too because a lot of motocross especially with racing it's supposed to be all legs and core and you're supposed to be barely hanging on with your arms. Your arms aren't really supposed to do much except, you know, kind of operate the controls, but you're supposed to be kind of light with your hands. Well, I've always had leg injuries, so my legs are frail and brittle and my arms kind of had to carry the team so like how many injuries have you had uh a lot but mostly like i said i don't have any i don't have an acl mcl or meniscus in my left knee uh i had i broke my left uh ankle and then right after i broke my left ankle i almost lost my right leg and shattered my heel and broke every bone in my ankle joint, my right leg.

So my legs are very – I got twig legs. So my arms just kind of have to carry the team. So mostly lower body, nothing upper body injuries? I've had like broken collarbones. I've had a couple of shoulder surgeries. But yeah, just a lot of leg injuries. Okay, cool. All right, good. Well, I'll tell you what, I'm, I'm stoked to meet you. I, to me, like, not that you need this, but you feel really ready, you know, like, of course there's some

stuff you got to work out still a couple of days going in in but your framework seems sturdy and durable and flexible and reliable your mindset feels totally dialed in feels like you understand that space between micro decisions you know so like i'm stoked to meet you as a human sweet and then i love hearing like how you work and where you come from and that you've earned the position to be that you're that you're in right now okay so where do you get in your way? Where will be the danger part for you getting in your way basically in life or even in this event that you're doing? Just myself. And that comes down to the rest and recovery that I have to keep up on. That's actually the most important thing for me because I'm not very good at it. So just trying to, I guess, steady myself and keep a good pace because I like to get ahead

of myself and do too much at once. So I think if I can just continue on a steady pace of keep working hard and keep focusing on what I got going on and the task at hand, but still, still chill out on the days I need to chill out, I think I should be just fine. Really cool. All right. I can't wait to, you know, be part of this with you and watch you, you know, go through it. And I'm super stoked to meet you. And last question before you go is, how do you think about or define or like, how do you conceptualize this concept of mastery? You know, there's a lot of different ways you can look at it um i just look at it as that you know this is my job so i'm gonna treat it like one and then two like i said it's my hobby so i get to to have fun days if i'm not feeling it if i don't want to push it on the days i feel off

then you know i still have that that call so it's just really just being in tune with what you're, with what you got going and just making sure that you're on the right track. And if you're not figure out how to get there or, you know, know when to say, all right, maybe today's not the day. And that's, that's the toughest part to make those kinds of calls. It really is. Yeah. Brilliant. Okay. Where can people find you follow you like the whole thing? Yeah. I'm a big on Instagram as, as pretty much everyone is these days, but yeah, my social media handles at V golden for 23. Awesome. Okay. So congratulations on the entire

body of work, you know, and that goes without saying, and I'm super stoked to, to be part of this with you. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you. All right. Thank you so much for diving into another episode of Finding Mastery with us. Our team loves creating this podcast and sharing these conversations with you. We really appreciate you being part of this community. And if you're enjoying the show, the easiest no-cost way to support is to hit the subscribe or follow button wherever you're listening. Also, if you haven't already, please consider dropping us a review on Apple or Spotify. We are incredibly grateful for the support and feedback.

If you're looking for even more insights, we have a newsletter we send out every Wednesday. Punch over to findingmastery.com slash newsletter to sign up. The show wouldn't be possible without our sponsors and we take our recommendations seriously. And the team is very thoughtful about making sure we love and endorse every product you hear on the show. If you want to check out any of our sponsor offers you heard about in this episode,

you can find those deals at findingmastery.com slash sponsors. And remember, no one does it alone. The door here at Finding Mastery is always open to those looking to explore the edges and the reaches of their potential so that they can help others do the same. So join our community, share your favorite episode with a friend, and let us know how we can continue to show up for you. Lastly, as a quick reminder, information in this podcast and from any material on the Finding Mastery website and social channels is for information purposes only. If you're looking for meaningful support, which we all need, one of the best things you can do is to talk to a licensed professional. So seek assistance from your healthcare providers.

Again, a sincere thank you for listening. Until next episode, be well, think well, keep exploring.