Finding Mastery with Dr. Michael Gervais - What is the "It" Factor? | Randy Jackson

Episode Date: September 2, 2020

This week’s conversation is with Randy Jackson, a world-renowned musician, record producer, A&R executive, and founder of Unify Health Labs.You might be familiar with Randy as one of the judges of the wildly popular “American Idol” but Randy’s roots in the music industry go way back.Randy first entered the music industry in the ‘80s as a for-hire studio session bassist.His skill, easy-going personality, and never-say-die work ethic saw him appearing on stages and records with world-famous acts like Journey, Madonna, Bruce Springsteen, Kenny G, Aretha Franklin, Maze, Jean-Luc Ponty, Billy Cobham, and Tracy Chapman.He soon made the transition to the production end, working first in mixing and eventually full production.The list of artists he produced include NSYNC, Whitney Houston, Céline Dion, and Fergie.So Randy gets it – he’s been fortunate to work with the best.In this conversation, we discuss the “it” factor – the common trait shared by the best musicians, entertainers and beyond._________________Subscribe to our Youtube Channel for more powerful conversations at the intersection of high performance, leadership, and meaning: https://www.youtube.com/c/FindingMasteryGet exclusive discounts and support our amazing sponsors! Go to: https://findingmastery.com/sponsors/Subscribe to the Finding Mastery newsletter for weekly high performance insights: https://www.findingmastery.com/newsletter Download Dr. Mike's Morning Mindset Routine! https://www.findingmastery.com/morningmindsetFollow us on Instagram, LinkedIn, and X.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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it. This is what I'm doing. I don't even know what you're doing, but the only thing I can do is be me. So why do I care what someone else is thinking? They don't even know me. They think they do. So you can never become that star, worried about what other people think. All right, welcome back, or welcome to the Finding Mastery podcast. I'm Michael Gervais by Trade and Training. I'm a sport and performance psychologist. And I just want to take a moment and I want to say thank you for everyone that has bought

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And when I'm traveling or in between meals on a demanding day, certainly I need something quick that will support the way that I feel and think and perform. And that's why I've been leaning on David protein bars. And so has the team here at Finding Mastery. In fact, our GM, Stuart, he loves them so much. I just want to kind of quickly put them on the spot. Stuart, I know you're listening. I think you might be the reason that we're running out of these bars so quickly. They're incredible, Mike. I love them.

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have been loving the fudge brownie and peanut butter. I know, Stuart, you're still listening here. So getting enough protein matters. And that can't be understated, not just for strength, but for energy and focus, recovery, for longevity. And I love that David is making that easier. So if you're trying to hit your daily protein goals with something seamless, I'd love for you to go check them out. Get a free variety pack, a $25 value and 10% off for life when you head to davidprotein.com slash finding mastery. That's David, D-A-V-I-D, protein, P-R-O-T-E-I-N.com slash Finding Mastery. and the founder of Unify Health Labs. And I've been taking their products. It's awesome. Like he's done a really nice job and you probably recognize him, you know, on the wildly popular American Idol show as you know, one of the hosts of the show, one of the judges, if you will.

But Randy's roots in music, I go way back and he first entered the music industry in the eighties as a four higher studio session bassist. This is the classic, get your foot in the door. And he first entered the music industry in the 80s as a four-hire studio session bassist. This is the classic get your foot in the door, and look what he's done. So there's so much to understand from Randy. And it's his skill, of course. He's got this easygoing personality, and he's also got a mission-minded work ethic that led him to appearing on stages and records with world-leading talent like Journey and Madonna and Bruce Springsteen and Kenny G and Aretha Franklin, Tracy Chapman. And then he soon made the transition to the production end, first working in mixing and then eventually to full production.

And he produced artists like NSYNC and Whitney Houston and Celine Dion and Fergie. And then he was also working with Mariah Carey as the musical director for years. I mean, they're legends. And so is he. So Randy just gets it, waiting to hear this conversation. And he's been fortunate to work with the best and to understand that unique language that those that have excelled towards their very best. And in these cases that we've just described also world-class and world-leading, there is a unique language. There is a, there's a way that those who are extraordinary work.

And it's, here's the thing. That's what this podcast is about. It's not a language that's not available to everybody. It's just you have to learn it. You have to understand it. And when you're around it, you start to become fluent in it. And so that's really what this podcast is about. What is the language? What is the framework? How do they organize their inner life? What are those mental skills that they're working on refining? And in this conversation, we talk about the it factor. And it's a common theme that stands out across these world-leading best of the best of the best. And that's across any field as well. And what does that mean? What is the it factor? It's really you being you. And it is about authenticity and the ability to be authentic in any environment.

Right? And the more present that a person can be, the more available resources they have to adjust to make these micro decisions and micro pivots to stay in the present moment. Okay. And like, I'm so honored to have this conversation with Randy. He's a legend. He's on it. I think you'll feel it. And also I want you to notice that he's got a way about him, that he is relentlessly looking for the good, relentlessly trying to build rather than tear down a critique. And that is one of the crown jewels, if you will, of many of world-class and world leaders, and certainly one for Randy.

And with that, let's jump right into this week's conversation with the legend, Randy Jackson. Randy, how are you? I'm very good, Mike. What's going on, man? How are you? You come out of the box already positive and vibrant, and I'm imagining that's how you live. I don't want to make it up, though. Is that how it is most of the time for you? That's how it is most of the time for me. You've got to be positive. You've got to keep those positive thoughts around you because then you attract the positivity into your life and other people coming in. So, you know, try and have no dark clouds, man. It doesn't end well. Where'd you learn that? Where'd that come from for you?

I did a lot of soul searching. I was a kid that grew up in Louisiana in the Baptist church and all of that. And, you know, love God, you know, love Jesus. I'm a big, big Christianity guy, but I also did a lot of spiritual soul searching. So different forms of Eastern science of the mind, sex, Rosicrucian, Sri Chin Noi, Buddhism, everything else. And I mean, they all kind of sum it up with some of these positive affirms that you follow. Call the natural laws of the universe. You are what you attract. You are what you think.

You are what you eat. You are probably not doing the right thing if you don't get my Unify Health Labs products. Drop it right in there. Yeah, there you go and so well no i mean i created it because to sustain your lifestyle and sustain your you know just vulnerability to the cravings of food that like have just wrecked your eating habits and wrecked your life forever this is something to help you sustain and get your health and wellness together okay so alignment is important to you right i want to know why you went on the spiritual path but

but you you slipped it in there in a very clear way which is like hey what you eat matters and if you're not down with this product that i'm totally aligned with and i love what i've created is that you know and it doesn't have to be just yours, but any product that you are aligned with then or service, then it's probably not quite right. Well, let's say, listen, I created Unify Health Labs with a bunch of doctors and a bunch of pros because I'd lost a bunch of weight, gotten my life together. And the hard part, how do you keep it off? It's hard enough to lose it, to get it together. How do I sustain this? So that sustainability becomes your most lifelong important job. You have to continue to grind. You can never give up. You can't even let one day go by. Maybe half a day. Maybe you do something, you eat something bad or you drink something bad

for two hours of the day. But the rest of the day, you have to keep mindfulness at the forefront of your mission. You're speaking my language, mindfulness and sustainability. Well, I think we've all learned, I mean, a lot of friends of mine, I'm sure friends of yours and colleagues, we've all learned some of the same rules. There is a right and a wrong. The right is, I am what I eat. So I remember when people used to say, dog, you're fat. Yeah, I know. I got mirrors. I am. So it's also acknowledging the truth of who you are, where you are in that moment. Not saying, yeah, that's what they say, but I'm not that. Don't never lie to yourself. Don't lie to yourself. Stop lying to yourself. You say it casually, but it's a really powerful thought. Be completely

honest with how you are treating yourself in both words and actions. And you know, you know, if you're being honest or not. And that investment of honesty, and first you have to invest in investigation, like what am I saying and what are my actions and are they lined up with my principles? And so could you start with principles and then let's get into mindfulness and then we'll toggle back to why you went on a spiritual path. So what are the principles that are most important to you? Really compassion, humility, honesty, and also acceptance of who I am, where I am, what I'm doing. I always say we are the choices we have made, or the choices we're currently making.

So if you're in a position or in a place where you don't wanna be and you don't like it, consult the choices you have made. Don't blame others, don't blame the system, don't blame the government, blame you made the government. Blame you made these choices. Why did you make this choice? Some of the choices are not within your control. I say to people, use a serenity prayer every damn day, because the wisdom to know the difference is the key words of the things that I can and cannot change. So if I'm lying to myself, I'm not really living

even in this life. So I haven't accepted my own responsibility. I haven't accepted who I am. And in fact, what I always say, this revolves around artists, athletes, people from all walks of life. It's all relevant. Do you out there know who you are and have you accepted it? Wow. Most people, doctor, my friend, Mike, they don't know. They don't know. And it's hard. It is a hard thing to do to get to the truth. And this is why community is so important, right? Is to sometimes community when sometimes it's edgy and scratchy and sometimes it's loving and kind and you can have both actually, but they'll hold up the mirror and say, do you see you?

Well, one of the things that I love is I love a lot of things about the 12 step program. When you go, you stand up and you say, hi, my name is so-and-so. I am an alcoholic. So wait a minute, you're putting it out there. So why can't you put everything in your life out there? I know it's hard, but until we get over that hurdle of self-acceptance and self-awareness and who we are, where are we going to go? How are we going to get anywhere? What led you to this depth, to this exploration, to this commitment to the rich life?

And you know I don't mean that financially. But what led you to go this path? Because my experience, and I don't know if you'll go there, but most people it's's because of pain and suffering they're just sick and tired of being sick and tired i had some of that i had loneliness i had wasn't happy with where i was in my life but i also thank god had a lot of great people along the way that gave me tidbits of information that piqued my curiosity try this try that and I would ask people, this is a great thing about life. You meet people, you go to events,

whatever you do, even on these online things. Ask the questions. Say, hey man, you seem to have a successful life. What did you do, Mike? What did you do, Randy? What did you do? I mean, whomever it is. And ask everyone because those tidbits may click in your mind and go, wow, let me research

it. I got to try that. One of the great positive things about social media is that you could probably Google anything and find out some answers. That's also a double-edged sword because it's equally bad about that too. We'll get into that later. It definitely touches part of our brain that is a reference of how we're doing which is a one of one of the great seeds

of suffering is this relative comparison to others and it will certainly do that if you if you're if you don't chin check it if you don't really get your arms around that that animal you know and so so that being said is you had some, you had some stuff you're working on. And then so you said, okay, well, how? How are people doing it? And that led you to... I had a lot of disappointment, a lot of failures. Things weren't going the way I thought they should go.

I thought that I'd done the work. I thought that, you know, as a lot of people think, especially young minds or even older minds, man, why am I not there? I'm doing everything. I'm great. I'm good. I'm the best at what I do. I know everything. People seem to like me.

Why isn't it all clicking? Wow. So you have to sit down and dig deep and say, okay, what's the truth of where I am? And I say this to almost every artist that I meet, Mike. There's who you think you are. There's who you think you want to be. I only want to deal with who you really are. And if you don't know that, you got to figure that out and accept that, then we can talk. If you don't know that and you haven't accepted that, I can't really help you because you're not really living in the here and now. So, you know, I had to do that for myself. So all of the lessons that

I've learned and all the things I've gone through, I did them for myself. Same thing with Unify Health Life. That's why I want to pay it forward. Because I've learned these things that helped me. Possibly, they can help you. Simple as that. That balance between simple and deep is the nexus that I crave. And, you know, like I really appreciate what you just said because it's simple and really deep. So you didn't lose the wisdom in it. Well, my grandma said to me when

I was a young boy, if you can keep it simple, you can make it all work. As soon as it becomes complex, all bets are off. Yeah, there you go. I've consistently been in awe of artistic expression. And artists have this deeply instinctual understanding of the mind, of their mind. And I really just want to figure out what great artists deciphered long ago, which is how they use their mind and express it and so when when you think about the artist mind where do you go well you're born into this artist mind which you're total creative but I think some of the business outcomes you have to kind of get under your hand because I got to pay close attention to detail. Because remember,

you may think that it took me no pain or not a lot of work to get here. I make it look effortless, but my God, I worked like I didn't think I would live to get here. I did every possible thing I could. That's why it seems effortless to you. But it's never really effortless. I've done more work than you can even imagine. Because remember, the great artist's mind, it's not that it's good enough. Is it great?

You're striving to become the best athlete, the best Olympian, the best musician, the best virtuoso, the best painter. You want to paint with free expression. So you've got to dig deep within your soul so the soul comes out uninterrupted. There's a lot of work that goes into that, which is great about, Mike, what you're doing here and what you do with your podcast, because these tidbits help people to realize what work do I have to do? When is the work done? The work's never done. It's a continuation. You know, you achieve one goal. You know, one of my big words that I love is what's next? Okay, we did that. This is great. We enjoyed it. We all ate good. We partied like crazy. We're loving life. You know, the dog's talking to me now.

What is next? What do I have to do for the continuation? Because my life depends on this purpose, this direction, right? Life without purpose is not really living, right? Finding Mastery is brought to you by Momentus. When it comes to high performance, whether you're leading a team, raising a family, pushing physical limits, or simply trying to be better today than you were yesterday, what you put in your body matters. And that's why I trust Momentous. From the moment I sat down with Jeff Byers, their co-founder and CEO, I could tell this was not your average supplement company. And I was immediately drawn to their mission, helping people achieve performance for life. And to do that, they developed what they call the Momentous Standard.

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FindingMastery20 at FelixGray.com for 20% off. You know what I've come to learn is that when pain is bigger than purpose, pain will win. And we get to determine or co-create our purpose, right? We have a say in it. And I love this idea of co-creating because our purpose is incumbent upon our relationship with others, including mother nature. And so this purpose-driven approach to life is really important. And I've also learned, Randy, that most people struggle with their purpose. It almost feels too big that where do I start? And so I'd love to know, can you articulate your purpose? Like, can you get it out in a handful of words or sentences in a succinct way? By the grace of God, I think I was born with some innate things.

I mean, I knew as a young boy things that I saw that spoke to me, and I went after them. Sports spoke to me, and music spoke to me greatly, and it was a duality for most of my life until I got to college level. I played sports all throughout high school, junior high, elementary, all the teams, all the track, football, baseball, basketball, everything. And I also played music in every band and everything. struck me because, thank God, my parents let me choose willingly and freely whatever I wanted to create or be or whomever. So for me, the purpose and the direction was there. But listen, just because it's there didn't mean that I didn't have to do the work. So I had to do the work.

And I had to find within my soul what was going to be my voice. What is my individuality? Does anybody need another great singer? I would always say on Idol. Simon and I will always say this. No, but the world needs another singer that's different with a different personality,

with a whole different sound. Somebody that's great, that's unique, not somebody, not more of the same. The beach doesn't need any more sand, but it's that in itself is hard for people to understand. So that purpose of understanding who I am, of what do I have, because God has given us all something unique within ourselves. It's up to us to find out what that is and build upon that. There you go. So your purpose is to know yourself, to know your gifts, and to build around those. What makes me special? Dr. Mike, what makes you special? Randy, what makes you special? What did you get that somebody else didn't get?

How do you answer that? Well, I can only answer it for me. Right. Yeah, right, right. But I think you got to dig deep and find out, okay, there's 20 people in a room, 10 people, five people, my cousins, my friends, whatever, whatever. How am I different from each one of these? What are my thought processes? What are my feelings? What are my visions? How do I see the room? Also,

how do I look at things? Because I always say a thing is all in the way you look at it. That's why they say one man's garbage could be another man's gold. So right. Am I looking at it the right way? Am I seeing this for what it is? That's one of the sleight of hand tricks, not that I'm really into politics, but that's one of the sleight of hand tricks that politics plays. We always laugh in Hollywood about politics because it's a publicist's dream. Because I can use all the sleight of hand perception tricks and fool the people. You know, ma'am, if I could count on your vote in the next election, I'm going to do everything in my power to help you. Wait a minute, you have no power. You may not even win.

And the people go off, wow, this guy's really real. He cares about me. Huh? So, I mean, you know, these sleight of hand tricks of that, you know, I mean, you can't have that. You have to be really guttural, honest with yourself and really break down and find out who am I and accept that. I know I think I want to be an astronaut or race car driver, but hey, I'm a great chef. Why should I be mad at that? Why can't I accept that for what it is? Why do I always have to, the grass is always greener somewhere else? For me, it's a bit of a trap for many people. And I found myself in it at one point in my life, which

was that I needed to do something to be somebody. The only way that I could find passion and aliveness was by doing that thing. And that's, I think, a circular trap that we find ourselves in, because that thing is just a placeholder for the way we want to feel. Now we can cultivate the way we want to feel and experience life moment to moment without having that guitar in our hand or surfboard under feet or stage to sing from whatever it might be. Right. I got to say to you something here. I was just thinking about not to cut you off, but one of the things that tremendously helped me that may help other people out there, there's a part of psychology called behavioral psychology, which I'm sure you know well. So I wrote a couple books back in the day on my journey to try and get optimal health, which also helped inform me with Unify Health Labs with the great Dr. Molina that I started.

And one of the things, Mike, that helped me with that is you have to behavioral psychology, I have to change the way you see what your problem and your issues are. Are you looking at them honestly for what they are? If I can change the way you look at eating and what you eat, maybe you can do the next step. So if I don't change the way you look at that, you're gonna think, God I'm famished, I know I should be on this diet but I'm hungry as hell, I can eat a horse and damn I'm gonna try so you do so all things are busted again you're back to zero but if I change the way you think about that and say listen you could have those 13 Baker's dozen doughnuts but you're not gonna feel well and guess what you could develop like I did type 2 diabetes you

could develop all of these illnesses. This could lead you down a never-ending path that you're giving in to all your cravings. So changing your mindset about how you're even looking at your own life, your own problems, your own circumstances, your own situations, your own way of overcoming your obstacles and overcoming what you think are your shortcomings, man, if we can help people change the way they look at it and find that silver lining of a thread that can give them hope and purpose in the darkness, oh my God, this is it, Mike. This is it. I get why people want to be around you, right? I get why you are an asset in the process of becoming an artistic expression.

And if there was like one, two, three, whatever things that you could recommend for people to do this investigation work, what have those processes been for you? Is it writing? Is it mindfulness? Is it fill in the blanks, inspired conversations with wise men and women? Like what are the things that you would recommend people do or double down on? I think really having conversations with informed people, listening to podcasts like this and others. I think digging as much as you can and really sitting quietly and just saying to yourself, who am I? What am I best at? Not what am I good at?

What am I best at? I meet people all the time. Oh, I can do this. I can do that. People will come in and audition on Idol. I sing jazz, blues, rock, country, R&B, classical, whatever. We'd always say, yeah, but which one of those are you the best at? Let's start with what you're the best at.

If you can't identify that, then you need to go through all of the trials and tribulations to identify that. Start to build there. Let's get it back to bone basic simple. I'm born, I'm a man, woman, child, whomever I am. What do I do best? Not what I want to do. Not what I think I do. What do I do best? Funny thing about that. One of the big words that stuck with me growing up in Louisiana the lovely state that it is authenticity they don't care about who you say you are they say Randy is that really you in there right exactly

exactly Randy are those your friends? And your mom says, well, would you invite them on Thursday night to eat green beans with the family? No. Well, then they're not your damn friends. Okay. So now we have authenticity. Huge word. Is this really what you do best? Until you find that out, it's going to be hard to move on. And you have to find it out, one of my favorite phrases in life, the mission impossible phrase, this is your mission, Dr. Mike, should you choose, underline choose a billion times to accept it. Underline accepted a trillion times. Have you chosen to accept who you are? If you don't know who you are, none of it's going to work. So until we discover that, where are we going? What are we doing? Who are we doing what with? We don't even know who the friends we should have. We don't know. We're not even living in this thing. I love it. I'm inspired. I don't know if you know the name Chase Serrano. Yes. Yeah, right. So he's got F-O-H, right? Like F out of here. And then I want to do like a F-W-D,

like, fuck we doing? What are we doing? So if you're not doing this self-discovery, honest internal work, we end up building on some structures that are easily knocked over, you know? And we just got to keep starting over again and starting over again because it's just kind of built on BS. They should play that Who song over and over. Who are you?

Who, who, who, who? I really want to know who. I'm saying. I love it. Yeah. I love listening to you sing too. Yeah. No, but you know what I'm saying.

I mean, I'm still- No, no, no. Yeah, yeah, yeah. How do we know where we're supposed to go if we don't know who we are? So you said it. It's one of the ancient mindfulness practices one of those thought stems is sit quietly and ask yourself who am i but repeat that think about that give space to that for 5 10 20 45 minutes and then so that's been a practice. I've been meditating for like 20, I think it's 23 years. I mean, to about 16, 17 years. Yeah. On it. Yeah. On it. And so I was

talking to Deepak Chopra not too long ago and he says, wait, Mike, why aren't you asking the question? What am I? And I was like, oh man, there we go. Okay. You know? And so it ends up coming back to stardust in some kind of way you know but it's like it's yeah so that investigative process is massively important and an accelerant to consistency and for me and i know i cut you off that authenticity piece is is really about can you be you across any set of circumstances that's the authentic type of litmus test. Can I be about it when I'm in calm waters or rugged waters, whatever those waters are for you? Well, but that means, Dr. Mike, I love Deepak too, but that means, listen,

have I really accepted it? See, that's why the accepted it is a big, big, big thing. I can figure out maybe who I am. And listen, if you can't, one of the other things I say to people, ask people like Dr. Mike, ask people that know, ask people that are around you, who do you think I am? What do I do best? First, let's start with this. Forget who we are for a second. What do I do best? Well, you're a great problem solver. You do this. You make the best eggs. Or I don't even know. What do I do best, you think? Ask 10 people. Do your own research. Then, who am I? Have I accepted that, that I've been told that I feel in my soul who I am? You got to dig deep to get to the soul part. Not the mind, not the eyes, not the mirror. I'm not my beauty. Who am I?

Right then, what am I? For me. Because it won't matter if I don't know who I am and I haven't accepted it. That's what's up. Yeah. And I can tell you've done your work. Like it's so crystal clear the way that you can articulate it. And here's a fun practice is sit with yourself, do some of this work, maybe write it down

so it becomes formal in some way. But like, what are my talents? What is my talent? What am I best at to use your language? And then you might say like, who am I? And maybe even as an exercise, put it into three words. Okay. Just as a forcing function. It doesn't mean it has to be an absolute thing. And then ask, I don't know, 15, 20 people, what are the three words that you would use to describe me and see if there's any calibration. Cause that how you're showing up right and if there's a delta between the two you got some work to do now right if you

think that you're peace loving happy humble whatever and then it comes back you're sharp edgy a little scary well you got some work to do now yeah yeah yeah okay brilliant all right so when you hit on something great there though you hit on something else great there with your great self. How do I take that into the material world? Because you and I have been meditating forever. We obviously are both friends and love the spiritual world and all of this. So one of the tough things, even for the Christians, for all of us Christians out here, how do I live in the material world and the spiritual world? The two are like polar opposite. Right. So guess what? If you've accepted

who you are, you take your faith in who you are and what you are into that world and say, listen, I don't care what these fools over here are doing. This is who I am. You go with the utmost conviction, still with the utmost compassion and humility, but the utmost conviction. Nobody's taken me off my spiritual path because I've now figured out who I am, what my purpose, where I'm trying to go, and I can build a roadmap like Google Maps, Apple Maps. Okay. It'll lead you somewhere. Where do you want to go? Okay. So in order to get somewhere, we need to know where we're trying to go. Where are we trying to go? I want to be a billionaire. How? What do you want to do? You want somebody to just give you a billion dollars? Never going to happen. I can say that again. Never going to happen.

So how do I get there? I want to have $150,000. How do I get it? What are the roads? You know what I'm saying? Finding Mastery is brought to you by Cozy Earth. Over the years, I've learned that recovery doesn't just happen when we sleep. It starts with how we transition and wind down. And that's why I've built intentional routines into the way that I close my day. And Cozy Earth has become a new part of that. Their bedding, it's incredibly soft, like next level soft. And what surprised me the most is how much it actually helps regulate temperature. I tend to run warm at night and these sheets have helped me sleep cooler and more consistently, which has made a meaningful difference in how I show up the next day for myself, my

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The beautiful part about this work, Randy, is that, and you know this, is that nobody can ever take it away from you. You might not get invited back to your stage like the American Idol, but nobody can take it away from you. And I'd love to pivot to this. I'd love to pivot to Billie Eilish for just a moment. And man, I'm captivated. And what accounts for great talent like Billie Eilish? Young, but there's something important

there. I know that you know much more than I do about what makes her and them work. So what accounts for great talent like Billie Eilish? She did what all of the greats did. Somehow she figured out who she was. You know, you may have said it's who she wants to be, who she thinks she is. She figured out who she was. She figured out, you've heard her say in interviews, I don't have a big voice. This is my voice. She found her voice and stuck with it and authentically became herself, her clothing, her look, her vibe, and man, what conviction. I don't care where I am. This is what I'm doing. So that opens up the doors. When you connect the dots, therein becomes the power. If you can connect the dots and give it the best that you have and find your individuality, somehow the doors start to open and you're convicted saying, I don't care. I always say, are you willing to

walk the plank for what you believe? If you are, maybe the sky and the heavens will open and grant you your wish. But if you're not willing to walk the plank, live and die by that. So she basically said what everyone else that's great said. I don't care what they're doing. This is what I'm doing. Die, sink, or swim. They can hate it, love it. I'm not even in that. So in other words, I'm not tied to the success of it. I'm tied to the conviction of who I am. I love the simplicity and the power in it. That's what Nelson Mandela did. It's what Gandhi did. It's what Jesus did. It's what Dr. King Jr., listen, here's who I am. This is what I'm trying to sort out. And this is what I'm working for my life efforts. Man, it's so good. Let me get off my soapbox for a minute. But you have to do the internal work that you're

suggesting, Randy. And I love that the insight you had is about be around informed people. Cultivate your community with people that are switched on, that are on it, that have traveled down the path, that have some scars and are going to share their scar tissue with you. It's really important. And so let's go super practical for a moment. Let's say what we can do, Billy. I was going to bring up Kendrick Lamar as a special talent, of course. Yes. And so let's do Kendrick for a moment. You're going to bring up Kendrick Lamar as a special talent, of course. Yes. And so let's do Kendrick for a moment.

You're in the studio with Kendrick. And you say- Which I would love to be, by the way, with either of them. Yeah, right. Okay. So let's put that out there. And then so you say, hey, Kendrick, why don't we switch this thing up, you know, 215, 212 degrees?

Try this. And he says, what are you talking about? Like, I know me, that's whack. You know, like, let's say he's got that really strong conviction and maybe some rigidity that, that, that he doesn't want to go there. How do you work with that? Do you, do you love that? Do you find that rigidity or that clarity? There's a thin line between those two. Unbecoming, how do you work that as a producer and how do you create DoubleClick? How do you create the space for people to explore and express? I think it's a conversation. I think it's an ongoing conversation because I always say to every artist, where do you want to be? Who's in the audience? How do you see yourself? What's that stage looking like? So do you want to be? Who's in the audience? How do you see yourself? What's that

stage looking like? So do you want to play arenas? These are the things you need to do. You want to play stadiums? These are the things you need to do. If you want to just be an artist for your own good, your own lyric show and whatever. I mean, I think Billie Eilish and Kendrick are two shining examples of people who are unbelievable artists, who've made it being unbelievable artists and not having to compromise, but they figured out who they were, accentuated it, and made it also seemingly commercial. So we call that the holy grail in my game. I call it the holy grail. Commerce with art. Art with commerce. Wow. Leonardo da Vinci in his time, if he in his time was selling paintings and doing stuff for a billion dollars, that would

have been art with commerce. He died and it was later realized that he was this unbelievable talent. So it's a conversation that you have to have. And you basically, that's to listen. Kendrick, whomever, I'm here to help you. Where do you want to go? And the conversation starts, well, I don't know. Where do you think I should be? Or where do you think? Then if we want to go to Rome, here are the steps.

If you think you're cool where you are, why am I here? Well, you're here because you're going to help me help you do exactly what? It's an honest conversation and it's an ongoing discussion. One of the things that I'm fortunate enough to work with some world-class artists, musicians, and one of the conversations I like to have with them is, it's just a question, whose art is it? It sets them up like, oh yeah, that's right, it's my art. You know, like, okay. And then the obvious next question is like, so where are you coming from like to your point like where's the soul in this and also where do you want the art to go listen it's cool it's okay that's right just be an artist that's right and not have huge commercial too because a lot of people think that that's given in and that sucks and that's not cool you're not dope anymore You've fallen off or whatever the hell, because you're just an artist wanting to bring your art to the public. Listen, if you're cool with playing for two,

300 people and being acclaimed as an artist, cool. Nobody's saying you have to do this to do that. But I think there's a deeper discussion here. I separated this pop stars, there's artists and then there's artists with separated this pop stars, there's artists, and then there's artists with commerce. Pop stars are really built around a song. They're not necessarily built around art. So great producers and writers can really help these people out. I'm going to give you this amazing song that Randy and Mike could sing and have a hit with.

Right. What is the structure of a great song? Like, and I really don't, I don't have any clue what that is. I know there's a hook and there's this, that, and the other, but like in the most layman's terms, like what makes a song great? To me, it's two things. Unbelievable, unbelievable chorus. And a lyric in that chorus that I can hear one time and I'm singing forever.

One listen. I love you, yeah, yeah. Oh, wow. Okay. So, hey, whatever the song is, I mean, you know,

Megan Thee Stallion with Savage, whatever it is, it just rings to me. I get it. I love it right away. Almost like love at first sight, Dr. Mike. It's the same, same, same. Yeah. It's the, there's a science to that, which is the science of awe, which is you're so enthralled with the singularity of the event that you get the vastness and the immediacy of it that your body stands on end. And so the science of awe is what you're describing, like it hooks you, it grabs you, that universal thing. But also it's so electric right now that it's like you almost, you're compelled to say it again or sing it again or hum it or whatever you can do. Yeah. Can't get it out of your brain.

Yeah. So on that thought, what are some phrases, lyrics, whether it's poetry or song or quotes from great thinkers that bang around in the front of your consciousness that help inform you? What are some of those things that are in your thinking as pillars? Just in general, I mean, I think the positivity. I think if you think about where we are in the world right now, with the social injustice going on, with the COVID thing going on, you think about it's good that you're on here. You think about the mental health of people, what they must be feeling,

what they may be going through, the despair. You know, if you're, you know, a Black Lives Matter person like myself, you're thinking like, what do I have to do? What's it gonna take? Why are my brothers and sisters dying? What's going on? What do I gotta do? This COVID thing, am I afraid to do? What's it going to take? Why are my brothers and sisters dying? What's going on? What do I got to do this COVID thing? Am I afraid of it? What's happening? What's going to go on?

I need to figure out something. What can I do? So I think, you know, it's really the despair and the feeling like you're all alone in these times with those tidbits of positivity, podcasts like this, things that you do to help people, things that I do to help inspire people to say, listen, let's look at it differently. Here's what maybe you can do. Here's what maybe I can do. Here's what maybe another way to frame this and think about this. Because, you know, I do believe in the art of positive affirmations. If I can get 100,000 people believing one way, hopefully we can affect some change, even in the spiritual verse or whatever that is. What is it like?

So that's what I was asking, like, really, do you have a verse or a lyric or a song that is really in the forefront of your mind right now that is informing you that is not necessarily a song but resonating in my mind right now is this too shall pass a change is going to come oh yes it will to quote Sam Cooke change has to come. So I look at these problems that we're having now as a universal God thing. The world's at its knees. COVID. Everybody stopped.

The world. Not just America. Not just China. Not just Russia. Not just Australia. The world. Then we see a reflection in the mirror of what Dr. Martin Luther King and so many others tried for so long. And we've come

far, but we see the reflection of how far we really have to go still. My God, when you look at that and you think like, what is this, the 60s, the 50s? Where are we? What happened? What did we do? Where are our leaders? What the hell happened? We thought we'd come this far. So this is God saying, aha, look at how much work there is to do. And now the world is in protest. When the whole world's in protest, it's like the majority of the whole world believes in Christianity. So you've got to say to yourself, if you're human living breathing, if that many people believe it, I think I could be right. But if that many people believe it, it must be God's honest truth. It's an inspired time.

It's born out of incredible suffering. And what an inspired time. I'm animated right now to do right. My whole life has been around how do you have right thoughts and right now, you know, to do right. My whole life has been around how do you have right thoughts and right actions, principle-based. And there's so much more room to grow. You know, like I love it. It's inspired. And what would you hope that white people can do better? If you have that bone in your body, if you really don't understand, get educated. And also, Spike Lee said it all, do the right thing. Do unto others as you would do

to yourself. If this is not good for you and bad for you, it must be bad for somebody else. And really try and understand, get the education. So you really understand what this really is and what it really means and how bad this is for the world and a country and how it's like ripping to shreds of people that want to make America great again. This is what they really need to be doing. That's awesome. I love that thought. This is awesome. Yeah. So you don't, you don't have, I don't hear frustration. I don't hear anger. I hear hope. I hear action and I hear purpose. So how do you not slip into frustration, anxiety, anger, rage? What do you do to be able to not spend too much time? And maybe you do, and you're just not coming out right now, but what do you do to work with that process?

I have bouts with all of that, as most people do. I have tons of bouts with all of it. And I go to the emotions and in my own way, my own meditation, I think about, okay, let me look at this from all sides. And instead of being bogged down in my raw emotions of it, of just sadness, of just fear, of just anger, what can I do? What can we do to turn this around? So that's the key. Let's not get bogged down because remember,

let me never fall for the perception. Let me only fall for the reality. Reality means what can I do? Because look, I mean, I'm in the entertainment business. The entertainment business, the king, queen, and crown prince of the entertainment business is perception, the publicist. It's not how good something is, Dr. Mike. It's how good we make you think it is.

It's the same way in politics. You know, politicians, it's all publicity. I mean, you know, if you spend your life on twitter all these social media things spewing this what's the real truth there so we don't really know because it's all sort of propaganda if you will so how do i find out the reality and the realness of anything that's what you got to bank on one of the, so on the perception idea, one of the great constrictors of potential is the chronic thinking about or behaving in alignment to what others might be thinking of me.

And so when you think of other people's perceptions of you or an artist you're working with. Can you just talk about if I'm down the right path, if you think I'm down the right path about the constrictor of, you know, the fear of people's opinions? And if so, how do you help people work through that? Well, stars all have one thing in common. There's a funny saying in the hood when I grew up. Pimps, preachers, politicians, and lead singers all have one thing in common.

They have no idea where they're going. You have no idea where they're going, but you're dumb enough to follow them. Right. Stars, Mick Jagger, Prince, Michael Jackson, them right stars mick jagger prince michael jackson annie lennox gaga mariah just name it don't care what anyone thinks because you know who you are and you've accepted it like you said about billy ellis and Kendrick Lamar this is what I'm doing I don't even know what you're doing but I can only do and I'm

convicted to the only thing I can do is be me well there's a song I've gotta be me see all these songs right so why do I care what someone else is thinking? They don't even know me. They think they do. So you can never become that star, worried about what other people think. Dr. Mike, you couldn't even do your show worrying about what other people are thinking. Other people say whatever.

I remember everybody's got derogatory things to say about anyone. I mean, people probably derogatory things to say about certainly Martin Luther King, Jr., Mother Teresa, all the popes, all the president. I mean, you know, everybody finds the negative in anything because sometimes that misery loves company and it makes them feel good as they sit inside their own fears because a lot of things are really fear-based right but if you're a star and you're willing to go out on that stage and senior wares in front of 500 a thousand ten thousand twenty thousand fifty people, you could be wearing a whole bear suit. But to them, you're new.

They're judging every part of you. I don't like his eyes. They're too close together. His ears are huge. His nose is just crooked. His knees, I mean, they're tearing you to shreds. You cannot go into the battle unless you're ready to take on all sides. So that means you have to have,

I don't give a whatever about who says what. I'm convicted to who I am. As I say to people, do you believe this? Are you convicted? Are you willing to carry your cross into the strongest wind, the strongest wind blowing in all the naysayers, Billy Eilish? Billy Eilish goes, I don't care.

This is who I am. Gaga goes, I don't care. This is who I am. Rod K goes, I don't care. This is who I am. Michael Jackson Prince, this is who I am. Bowie, this is who I am. Jagger, this is who I am. Anderson Powell, this is who I am. Jagger, this is who I am. Anderson Pop, this is who I am. Kendrick,

this is who I am. Dr. Dre, Jay-Z, Beyonce, this is who I am. I don't care what they think. It's what I do. Deepak Chopra, Deepak Chopra, your boy, this is who I am. Yeah. I mean, think about Harvard MD gone spiritual guru, you know, like, like it's amazing what he's done. And then here's, here's a thought though, that I get inspired by, by what you're saying is when you do this purpose-driven work, this is, this is how a cool kid, I'm not a cool kid. This is how a cool kid said it back to me.

He's one of the tip of the arrow performers. And he comes back, he goes, Hey man, we did that work. And guess what? I said, what? He says, I caught a case of the fuck it's. So what is that? He says, F it. I don't care anymore. Like I don't care anymore what they think. Like I I've, I'm free. I was like, Ooh, a case of the efforts, you know, like it's so clear. Yeah. It's so clear. And then, you know, the greatest navigators of the world, like for the ocean navigators, the greatest sailors, they don't pray for calm waters. They pray for rough seas so they can see the strength of their anchor so they can understand what they're really made of. And if they are properly prepared to meet the most rugged and hostile environments on the planet. And for most people, we never touch rugged seas.

But what we do touch is the hostility of what others might think of us. And that internal hostility is so dangerous for people that we play it safe and small and we never really go for it in life. So we live a small life, not in the fear of what might happen if I am successful, but the fear of what would happen if people didn't see me and they saw a version of me. Yeah. Oh, my goodness. Well, this is like the protest.

I'm happy because guess what? You're going out against all odds because you believe, we believe that this is the right thing to do. The anger. What else can you do to get your voice heard? Who out there is listening to your voice? Does anyone care, you think? Does anyone care? Because not a lot of people are coming up with solutions and doing things.

So you're going, let me take it upon my own and take it to the streets. And the world is now in solidarity with you. Wow. This, my friends, is powerful. So, you know, I think the people that are afraid of how they're being seen, those are not stars. They're not ready for prime time because, listen, the battle is real. Cam Newton just got drafted by the Patriots. He's got to go in there and kill it.

I mean, he's a killer. He's amazing. He's unbelievable talent. But he's got to go in there and kill it. Tom Brady's now at Tampa Bay. He's got something to prove. I could do it without New England. LeBron, yo, man, I got to go and improve something.

I'm supposed to be here. This is like you take on the challenge. You don't back down. What is that? That's not a winner. A winner backs down amongst fear or ignorance. That's a complete loser. I'm with you.

I love this, Randy Randy you're crisp on this so how about this as a thought stem and I want to honor our time but I'd love if you could just like quick hits here it all comes down to it all comes down to who you are have you discovered

do you know who you really are? Do you know your authentic self? What are you better at than anyone else? What are you the best at? Success is? success is knowing who you are and working like hell to get it out there. Success is also resilience and never giving up. The more you get knocked down, get back up. Believe in yourself first because no one else is going to believe if you don't believe. Mastery is marked by? Mastery is marked by how many times you get told no, but your belief is so strong, your conviction is so strong,

you've done the work to find out who you are, you get back up, and then you're hugely successful. Every successful person has used mastery to get there, meaning I'm sure everyone was told no 50 times before there was a yes. You built on the no's to inform your final yes. Suffering for me is suffering for me is not knowing what to do and living in total fear of not knowing what to do i love what you stand for randy i love your essence randy thank you for your time mike thanks brother love. This is good. You do good work, man. Thank you, Randy. What a special conversation. Appreciate you.

Thank you so much. Yeah. And where else can we find you? You can find me online on all the socials. You can go to my website at Unify Health Labs. You can find me there answering questions, doing things for people, trying to really help everyone get and stay healthy. Here we go.

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