Finding Mastery with Dr. Michael Gervais - What It Takes to Win - On and Off the Field | 2x World Cup Winner, Julie Foudy

Episode Date: June 14, 2023

2x World Cup Winner and 3x Olympic Medalist Julie Foudy discusses the importance of finding joy, championing the future of women's sports, and unlocking the true power of being an extraordinary teammate and parent.“Success comes when you are a great teammate and work your ass off. People want to be around you and they know that you got their back. You're in the foxhole with them. That's the greatest place they could be, because you're going to take care of them and vice versa.”Julie Foudy's list of achievements is nothing short of awe-inspiring. As a two-time FIFA World Cup Champion, a two-time Olympic gold medalist, and a member of the National Soccer Hall of Fame, she has left an indelible mark on her field. However, her impact extends far beyond her accolades – Julie is also a dominant and energizing voice in the world of women’s sports. On camera, she lends her talents as an ESPN analyst and commentator; and off, she’s a former President of the Women’s Sports Foundation and a tireless advocate for young female athletes. Her voice extends to the page, screen and airwaves as well – Julie has her own podcast, Laughter Permitted with Julie Foudy, she’s authored two incredible books, and has produced several documentaries. These days, she can also be seen in the newly-released HBO docuseries, Angel City, about the Los Angeles-based women’s soccer team, Angel City Football Club, of which she’s a proud owner and investor. If you don’t know, this organization has an incredible story that you’ll hear about in this conversation.Julie is a winner and a champion of other women winning, too – it’s clear that her commitment to women in sport will reverberate for generations to come._________________Subscribe to our Youtube Channel for more powerful conversations at the intersection of high performance, leadership, and meaning: https://www.youtube.com/c/FindingMasteryGet exclusive discounts and support our amazing sponsors! Go to: https://findingmastery.com/sponsors/Subscribe to the Finding Mastery newsletter for weekly high performance insights: https://www.findingmastery.com/newsletter Download Dr. Mike's Morning Mindset Routine! https://www.findingmastery.com/morningmindsetFollow us on Instagram, LinkedIn, and X.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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and they know that you got their back. Like you're in the foxhole with them. That's the greatest place they could be because you're going to take care of them. Welcome back or welcome to the Finding Mastery podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Michael Gervais by trade and training a high performance psychologist. I'm honored to welcome back to the podcast, a living legend of women's soccer. This week's conversation is with none other than the Julie Foudy. Julie is a favorite here at Finding Mastery, and her impact here and beyond stems from

so much more than her accolades, and they are legit. She is a two-time FIFA World Cup champion. She's a three-time Olympic medalist, two gold and one silver. She's a member of the National Soccer Hall of Fame, and she's also an energizing voice in the world of women's sports on camera as an ESPN analyst and commentator, and off as former president of the Women's Sports Foundation. Her voice extends to the page, screen, and airwaves as well. Julie has her own podcast, Laughter Permitted, with Julie Foudy. She's authored two incredible books. She's produced several documentaries.

And these days, she can also be seen in the newly released HBO docu-series, Angel City. And that's about the Los Angeles-based women's soccer team, Angel City Football Club, of which she is a proud owner and investor. And if you don't know, this organization has an incredible story that you will hear about in the conversation. So Julie and I cover a lot of important ground here. We talk about the cultural shift that's happening in women's sport, how to be a great parent for young athletes, the importance of bringing joy to everything we do, and why we is always greater than me. She is a winner. She is a champion of other women winning too. And it's clear that her commitment to women in sports will reverberate for generations to come. So with that, I am thrilled to dive into this week's conversation with the one, the only Julie Foudy.

Julie, it is great to see you. And it's hard to believe it's been four years since we last met. What? Come on. Yes. Four years. You're like 7,000 episodes in. Come on, Michael. And you're plus 100. It's awesome. What are you at? How many? I think we're over 500 at this point. Somewhere in that range. Oh my gosh. Do you get like a watch, a gold watch at 500? Do you get a medal? You

should be, you should be given an Olympic gold medal. I'm getting in line. I formed a line, but I'm not sure who's actually giving them out. We're just standing in line waiting. So there's been, obviously there's so much that's happened in the world around us. And one of the things that's been really fun is to see your involvement with Angel City FC. No, I should have worn my Angel City hat instead of my Be Here Now hat. That's a good hat, though. The Be Here Now is a good hat. Yeah, it is a good hat.

Oh, Angel City has been so fun. Yeah, that's right. So four years ago, it was just like a twinkle in the eye by Natalie Portman, who who is amazing as we all know i mean she is thor so of course she's amazing but um yeah that's been really fun i'm part of that ownership group there's actually 14 of us players on that ownership group michael that is amazing yeah so it literally full disclosure is a big party every home game it's like reunion let's go who's in we have a whole whatsapp group it's so fun how did it come about so she had an idea and was the idea like what was the origin story yeah of ownership so the origin story and there is that new hbo max

documentary out on it which is fantastic three- three part series that Natalie did with her production group. But the origin story is that she was listening to Abby Wambach, former stud women's soccer player, give a speech about her retirement. And Abby was talking at a Time's Up, Me Too, Time's Up kind of meeting that Natalie was a part of. And Abby was talking about how when she retired and she's accepting this award from at the ESPYs from ESPN and she's alongside Peyton Manning and Kobe Bryant. And she's like, you know, the three of us are getting honored for our careers. And it just hit me. Abby's telling the story. Kobe Bryant. And she's like, you know, the three of us are getting honored for our careers. And it just hit me, Abby's telling the story, it just hit me that, oh my gosh, the three of us are being honored in the same way, but we have very different realities. Like I'm worried about

what my next job is so I can have health insurance. And they're thinking about the millions of dollars they have invested and where they're going to spend it. And so Natalie was struck by that and that reality and was like, why is that one? And two, why don't we have a professional women's soccer team here in LA and why can't we start one? And so Karen Nortman, enter Karen Nortman, another founding investor and founder of Angel City alongside Natalie. She sat on the board of the Me Too movement, of the Time's Up movement with Natalie and is an awesome venture capitalist, amazing woman. And Natalie turned to Cara and said, come on, let's figure this out. And so the two of them found Julie Ehrman, the third founder, who is our president now, and who also comes kind of from the tech startup world, venture capital world, is super smart athlete, not a soccer player,

basketball player. They played basketball together, her and Kara. And the three of them went about starting this. And thank God they did because one, it's just so much fun, of course, which is my, uh, is my principle to living in life in my fifties now, just find the fun. Uh, and two it's, um, it's really changing the way people think about women's sports. It really is like, it's been a roadmap for a lot of people and they're so willing to share that roadmap. And that's the thing that I love as well is it's not just, you know, Hey, this is a really good thing we have to have women's sports here. It's like, this is a profitable business. That's profit and purpose and passion and all these P's we care about. That is perfect. All the P's that we care about.

They're imperfect. Yes. Not perfect, but it's close to. It's yeah. Like I said that because it sounded perfect. And, you know, the the idea that you can have all three of those is what modern business, I think, feels like, you know, and we've got to put the people as one of those peas in there, like right at the center of the whole thing, the experience of the people. Yeah. Well, and that's the thing that that makes it so cool, honestly, is they're all about the people. They're all about community. I mean, LA is a hard market, as we know. There's so many sports teams, so much vying for that entertainment dollar. And so to create noise in LA from the get-go, I mean, Michael, they raised $ 35 million in sponsorship revenue in their first

year before they'd even played a game. I mean, they just crushed it. It helps obviously when you have Natalie, who's got all her A-list celebrities and you've got athletes and you've got Billie Jean King and Lindsey Vonn and Candace Parker. And you go down the list of all these people who want it and these amazing women. So it's, it's just been so fun. Was it a tough decision for you not to get involved, but like, um, Oh, hell no. They're like, Hey, um, yeah. Hey, what do you think? We've got Natalie Portman, Jennifer Gardner. Um, they go down the list of all the people, you know, and I'm like, wait, what do you

mean? What do I think? Like, I don't even need to see any paperwork. Yes. I'm in. Of course I'm in. Yeah. I mean, I can't imagine a great group of people together, that's the energy behind it.

Then it becomes such an easy sell. And then Mia and I, for example, Mia Hamm and I, took it to all the players. We're like, okay, let's find every national team player that's played in LA or was born and raised in LA or has some tie to LA. So within literally two hours, every single player was like in yes, hell yes. All caps. Yes. Yeah. So, and which is so different than like most ownership, um, courting, if you will, is that there's some sort of convincing that needs to take place for somebody to buy. Like, you know, there's like, okay, well, it sounds like a good idea,

but how does it make money? Or, you know, I'm not sure if it's, you know, if, but not, this was not the case. This is why like the idea born out of Abby's and Abby spoke about the insight that you shared on our podcast earlier. And when she said it, you know, when those, when people share an idea and you go that's different like only you could kind of figure that out and when abby said that like

listen kobe's retirement and such and such retirement it's going to look very different than mine yeah it's like yeah that that's that's when you know you've earned that insight because you've lived a certain way and And yeah, so it's- You know, the other cool thing is you have someone like Natalie who's done so much, right? And not even in this sports space, but just done so much in life, as we know, for her to go, which is what amazes me, because there's a lot of people in life will go, well, why not? Why don't we have a women's team?

Why don't we start a women's team? And then that's it. It stops there, right? They pose the question, but then they go, oof, that's a lot of work. I don't know if I, I don't know if I want to follow up with that. So they pose the question and then they don't roll the sleeves up, roll their sleeves up. With Natalie, the thing I've, I've loved about it, her and watching her and Kara and Julie Ehrman, is that Natalie posed the question and then did the work to say, okay, we're going to get it done. And that's something in itself. And that's what the actual three-part series, the first part of the documentary was about, which is great to see. Just how they got it done.

I'm going to pause the conversation here for just a few minutes to talk about our sponsors. Finding Mastery is brought to you by LinkedIn Sales Solutions. In any high-performing environment that I've been part of, from elite teams to executive boardrooms, one thing holds true. Meaningful relationships are at the center of sustained success. And building those relationships, it takes more than effort.

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at linkedin.com slash deal. That's linkedin.com slash deal. For two full months for free, terms and conditions apply. Finding Mastery is brought to you by David Protein. I'm pretty intentional about what I eat and the majority of my nutrition comes from whole foods. And when I'm traveling or in between meals on a demanding day, certainly I need something quick that will support the way that I feel and think and perform. And that's why I've been leaning on David Protein bars. And so has the team here at Finding Mastery. In fact, our GM, Stuart, he loves them so much. I just want to kind of quickly put him on the spot.

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and peanut butter. I know Stuart, you're still listening here. So getting enough protein matters. And that can't be understated, not just for strength, but for energy and focus, recovery, for longevity. And I love that David is making that easier. So if you're trying to hit your daily protein goals with something seamless, I'd love for you to go check them out. Get a free variety pack, a $25 value and 10% off for life when you head to davidprotein.com slash finding mastery. That's David D-A-V-I-D protein P-R-O-T-E-I-N.com slash finding mastery. Let's jump right back into the conversation. So you've been an advocate for women's sport for sure, but you've been an advocate in soccer for a long time. Like if we can drill right into your hope or your dream or your vision for

ACFC or soccer in general and women's sports, like can you drill into maybe just those first three, like ACFC soccer and then women's sport? Yeah. Well, ACFC is already realizing it. I mean, our dream has always been to be something that gives and shows the world what's possible in women's sports. I mean, I think we thought we did that in 1999 with winning the World Cup. And then we quickly realized like, wait, oh God, changing culture takes longer than just one big event to convince people. And to your point earlier, Michael, it's like you don't have to expend the energy on explaining to people within this circle what it is and why you should be an owner.

And that's really refreshing because I honestly have spent my whole career expending energy on this is why you should bet on women's sports. This is why you should invest in women's sports. This is why you should invest in women's sports. This is why you should invest in women. And now you get to a point in life, thankfully, where you're like, oh, you know, basically Angel City's like, yeah, no shit. Move on. What's the next conversation? What do we want to then scratch the surface of? What are the layers we can peel back on the potential that's there? We already get there's potential. What do we want already get there's potential. What do we want to get out of this? And so when you start from that base and say, oh, we're just now climbing, we're not actually having to explain and build and all of those things, um, super

refreshing. And that's what angel city is doing. And I think it gives a lot of people, uh, um, a roadmap on how to do that. Um, in terms of women's soccer, I mean, I think it's really interesting time is, you know, like four years ago, I would have said to you, yeah, women's soccer is doing well, but there was a, but now it's women's soccer globally is exploding and you're seeing it in the numbers. You're seeing it in the sponsorships you're seeing it in the sponsorships, you're seeing it in attendance. I mean, it's, it's, um, it's fantastic to see it's again, taken a long time when we thought, you know, back in the nineties, people should have come to this conclusion earlier, but I am happy to see that it's getting there. Um, and especially in Europe, I mean, it's just going bonkers. It's going crazy. And so what you're seeing is you're seeing an energy and enthusiasm at games. So for example,

last summer for ESPN, I called the women's European final. So they have the euros for the men, which are the European championships where they have the best men's team in Europe, uh, play each other. Well, they do the same for the women. We had really never covered it at ESPN and that irked the hell out of me. And so a few years back, I said, this is our last women's Euros we're going to do. We should be doing this. We should be blowing it out of the water and covering it and doing pregame shows at halftimes. And you could get an amazing set of women to come to Bristol and do it. And we could do it from Bristol and then we could go cover it. Anyways, we finally did that and we crushed it. I mean, the numbers were huge. Of course, England wins it in England at Wembley, which is the iconic football, they will say, soccer,

we call it, stadium, their national stadium sold out. I mean, the place was rocking. It very much felt like a 99 moment to me um in terms of a cultural shift in terms of acceptance i wembley was sold out no way yeah wembley sold out 80 000 packed yeah and they're doing that now every time the england team plays at wembley they're selling out 80 000 quickly right the u.s went to play them right after the euros in october it sold out in 24 hours so this is the women too right mind you so they're you know and i'm married to a brit when i first i think i i don't know if i told this on the last podcast but when i first met my in-laws they looked at me this is back in the 90s and they were like you play soccer you play soccer? You play football? What? Women play football? I was like, yes. Like what? Like

it wasn't, you know, clearly there was not a lot of women playing football back in the 90s in England. So it has been a huge cultural shift. So in terms of where women's sports are, I think soccer is an indicator of that. And you're seeing that in a lot of different countries where, I mean, we've had the benefit of Title IX for many years. And that's why we have so many girls playing. But you're seeing these other countries wake up to the potential behind women's sports. And that makes me happy because now girls will be playing and jumping and throwing and kicking and all these great things that, as we know, produce great humans.

You know, it didn't hit me early in knowing you that you're a visionary. Am I? Yeah. Like you see the future and like at least you've got a vision of how you would like to see it. And then you tirelessly work towards it. You to be in the early nineties, let's call it before your 99, 1999 USA women's World Cup win, which you were obviously a key member of. So you were early. And did you know that at the time? That you had this ability to kind of see a future that mattered to you?

Oh, no. Did I know that women's sports should be more supported? Yes. No, no. No, no. Did you know that you had the ability to see the future in a way that was compelling to you and then in a way that was different than other people? I don't know if I would have thought of it that way. Okay.

I mean, the thing that I thought of it as, and I don't know if I would have labeled it as, as visionary, but I mean, back then we didn't have any data, right? It was mostly anecdotal. So, and that's because no one was collecting it and, um, and it didn't have the attention it deserved, but with women's sports in general, I just remember thinking and saying out loud often as part of our negotiations with U S soccer Federation is I don't care if you love or hate women's sports, women's soccer. The point is, I would say to the president, the point is you are missing out on all this potential and untapped potential. Like there's money on the table.

There's, there's, there is so much growth that could happen if you just water that garden just a little bit, like give us some water, just fertilize it a little bit and you're going to bloom. I'm telling you. And they'd be like, yeah, no, it's not going to happen. Um, and it wasn't until we got some fellow visionaries that were running U.S. soccer, Sunil Gulati, Alan Rothenberg, who were great businessmen and visionaries. Like if I could tap into that, I knew like, OK, maybe they don't wake up thinking about women's soccer, but they get that they're missing out on what the future could look like.

And then, I mean, that's when we actually started to swing that pendulum a little bit in terms of support and funding. And they started watering the garden a little bit more. Watering the garden. I want to come back to finding the fun because it feels like, you know, watering the garden is a very Buddhist way of thinking about cultivating your mind. And so whatever you attend to, you water. So if you attend to a future that is overwhelming, you're watering anxiety. If you tend to the present moment, you get the idea here. We're either watering weeds or harvesting beautiful flowers. So when you talk about finding the fun or find the fun, where did that come from for you? And how does it show up on a

regular basis for you? It's a good question. I don't know where I have always had a playful, joyful, some would say annoyingly. So, um, like puppy ish side to me peter pan hopefully minus the narcissism um side to me uh and and i i mean i i thank my parents every day because i say god i you know um to your point like there are people and for no fault of their own but their mind goes to, you know, to the barren or to the weeds or to, you know, the anxiety side of things. And so I don't know. I've always had this idea of I just I want to combine play and work. I call it plorking. Wait, what do you call it?

Plorking. Play and working is plorking. I mean, every trip I can make, I mean, I combine it. And I don't know, you know, my, I think I was the fourth kid, you know, and so there's probably something in that. If I were really to break it down like i think my parents were basically like yeah you're good do your thing they didn't there was not much oversight so um but yeah i don't know i've i've always uh sought joy for sure like joy has been a huge part of everything i do you snuck something in there and I don't know if it's bigger than it needs to be, but you said, like I've always had this playful, fun way about myself, even when it was annoying

to others or like you slid something in there, like you've had pushback about it. And my experience is that many people, their buoyancy, whatever their buoyancy is, when it's not like maybe their their way that they go through life is more introverted. And then you've got some early figures in their life. They're like, listen, you need to talk more. You need to be out there. You need to be you need to you need to whatever it is. And I can imagine that there was lots of heavy blankets trying to cover that buoyant, fun, playful nature that you have. And so how did you work through that? Yeah. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. I had people who'd say, you need to, what was like, rein what in? F off. I'm not reining anything in. I mean, I joke,

I have joke about it being annoying because it's, you know, we once bought Abby Wambach, who is equally vivacious in life and talkative. We once bought her a t-shirt when she got on the team that said, help me, I'm talking and I can't shut up because, because, you know, there gets a point where it's like, oh my God, shut up. Like, you know, I don't want to be that like, and it's not, um, my joy isn't like the, oh, everything has to be happy, perfect, fun all the time type of joy. Like I'm very real about it. You know, I never want to be like, life is perfect. Everything is great. You know, those people, how are you? Oh my gosh, I am so fantastic. And you're not right. No, I think it can probably get a little bit annoying because I run at a really high speed.

I mean, I have a really good energy base. I can do a lot of things. I like to move and cruise, really. I don't sit often. So that could probably be a little bit annoying. But you had a fire. Like when somebody was like, reel it in or like relax or whatever they would say, you had a fight about you. It was like I'm not reeling anything in.

I'm going to be as big and spirited as I can in life. Is that fair? Yeah. And you didn't like get that from your parents. Like they created – it sounds like they created the environment where they're like, okay, fourth kid, she's going to do her thing. And that's cool. Like look at her go. Oh, that's awesome. Whatever it is is but they weren't like challenging or pushing yeah no no challenging no pushing i mean like and and and maybe that allowed me to be me

um because i didn't have any expectations set on like you need to go to this school or you need to do this sport or you need to play at this level, like nothing. I mean, that's the difference in today's youth sports, you know, landscape. And I mean, so I think that freedom probably, um, helped me tremendously, but yeah, I never, I mean, to this day, I think it's such a gift. I don't, I mean, there was a period in my TV where I television career, where I cared about what people thought, you know, probably in my thirties, thirties. And then I got to my forties and I was like, yeah, I don't really care anymore. Obviously you want people to respect you, of course, but, um, there is a freedom to being you authentically

you and doing you, um, that I, uh, I've, I've really been fortunate to, to find. And, um, and I, I mean, I hope it doesn't bring complacency. That's the only thing. I think sometimes you can get complacent with that and overconfident. There's almost a hubris to that. And so I'm really conscious of that too, of curiosity and learning and growth mindset and all those things we talk about often. But there's also a soulfulness to that that is soothing and healthy. Okay. Quick pause here to share some of the sponsors of this conversation. Finding Mastery is brought to you by Momentus. When it comes to high performance, whether you're leading a team, raising a family, pushing physical limits,

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last conversation, that soulfulness. I'm not saying it wasn't there, but it feels different the way that you're talking about that. I'm going to use the word again, the buoyancy that is natural to you. And did something in the last four years or like earlier, where did that soulfulness, where did you notice that soulfulness begin to be part of the contour of your life? I think sports. I think, you know,

which is why I've always been such an advocate for girls playing. I mean, there's such a freedom to it and a joy to it. I mean, you're such a freedom to it and a joy to it. I mean, you're part, I've, I've always been a part of a team. So regardless of the sport, you have this built-in community, you have this built-in sisterhood, you have a bond, a family. I mean, that in itself, I mean, and, and all my different teams and not just, you know, national teams, of course, but, you know, my college team, I'm super tight with still, I mean, my soccerettes

that I played go green machine, uh, from, you know, when I was a child, I still have some of those as friends, those, those teammates. So I mean, that's the web that kind of weaves everything together, which is why I think I've been such an advocate for girls playing, whatever it is, or moving or sweating, because there is freedom to that. And it shapes, as we know, and Michael, you've lived, shapes everything we do, right? That's the beauty that doesn't get talked about enough. I mean, we get really entrenched in the X's and O's and the wins and losses. And yet the real gift is that you are learning something much more deeper and much deeper and more meaningful than just how to kick a ball or shoot a basket or all those things

that matter, of course. But that's the gift. The way that I think about the gift there is helping sport is a great environment. And so is mentorship as an asset to helping people understand their experience with experience and like having a, there's a thousand different ways that you could see losing and winning. And like sometimes you can figure it out, like what's the most authentic, healthiest response you could have.

And sometimes we need some mentorship there. And like you being a mentor now for let's say the next generation, what is your hope for a 12-year-old girl coming up right now? My hope is that she still finds that joy. I honestly am super worried about youth sports, having a 14 and 16 year old in the heart of it, because we have really managed to suck the joy out of it. And so my hope is that she finds that freedom. She finds that joy. She finds, um, that confidence. I would say that's

probably the biggest driver of my confidence is that I was super competitive and I could let it out on the field. And there was no one telling me that's not okay to be competitive and speak up and speak out and stand up and stand and stand out. And, um, nowadays I feel there's just so much pressure in youth sports and playing in college. And so I do think as parents, as coaches, as teachers, like as much as we can to really put that joy back in it is vital. You know, know, it's, it's funny. I was just having this conversation with my 16 year old in the car on the way home from a game this past week. And, um, I've started doing these thought of the days with her. I used to go lesson number 7,543 coming at you. And she'll be like, mom, another lesson. So I'm like, okay,

I'm just gonna give you one thought of the day. So my thought of the day, uh, this weekend was, um, that I really attribute, um, my success, right. With the national team and, and other things, other areas in the fact I was telling her, I said, you know, what hit me is that it's never been about what I need to get out of something or what I want personally, or the awards I want. Right? I was doing a podcast with Sue Bird. Uh, and yeah, Sue's a legend, right? As you know, and I think you've had her on of course, Michael. Um, and if not, you should, uh, but she was saying, you know, and she's won every level. She's won national titles at Yukon. She's won WNBA titles. She's got four Olympic gold medals and in basketball. And I, I, I can't remember my question, but the, the gist of it was, you know, how have you been so

personally success successful? And her answer was so great was that I don't think about it in terms of like, Oh, I'm going to strive for this scoring award or this, you know, assist award. She was all I think about is I want to win and make my team better. I just want to win. I'm competitive. I want to win. I want to make my team better. And I think today's youth, because of, you know, what what world we're living in with social media and everything is identified as how many followers, how many likes, your brand, what are you doing? And there's some value to that, of course, but also is that everything becomes so internalized. What am I getting out of it?

How am I doing? What schools are looking at me? How many goals am I scoring? I wanted Izzy to thank my daughter about like, it's not that. Like success comes when you just are a great teammate and work your ass off. And people want to be around you. And they know that you got their back. Like you're in the foxhole with them. That's the greatest place they could be because you're going to take care of them. And I, and so I was having that conversation because I do think lost in this world of you've got to stand out and really make a brand for yourself is the idea that you also just need to be a great teammate and then good things happen to you in life.

And so that was my, my thought of this last week. And that's the thing I want young people to think about as well, because of all those other pressures that really are performative and internalize, um, the performative side of things instead of real, the real side of things. Okay. So what does it mean to be a great teammate? Well, I'll give you some examples of great teammates. Mia Hamm, right? Arguably one of the greatest soccer players to ever play the game. Mia, as we all know in the women's soccer world, but maybe people outside of women's soccer don't know this, superstar, legend, goal scorer won all these accolades. But the only thing Mia cared about was that she was a great teammate, meaning that she was liked that she, um, she honored you as a fellow player. She brought you along. Like it was was she never wanted the spotlight. And yet, you know, she had to carry this, you know, this burden of being the star and the player, even though she was uncomfortable in that spotlight.

And yet she did such a great job of in her own kind of cerebral, quieter way because she she was shy, of being a fabulous leader. She taught me a ton about leadership because I always thought, you know, you had to be the one on the top of the mountain shouting down, the, you know, the one wearing the armband, the CEO, the president, the person in a position of power. Like, no, you can lead in so many great different ways. And her leadership style was very personal and private and quieter than mine. Of course, I was loudy-fouty. So it was such a great reflection on like, wow. And so I had that as an example. Carla Overbeck, another teammate, our captain, I was her co-captain for many years, um, just took care of

people, like looked after people, made sure that everyone was okay, listened, empathetic. So it's this, and, and at the highest level, which is always so interesting, right? Cause it's this battle of attrition to stay on the team and be individually competitive. But when you can find that balance of also then understanding the we is greater than the me, it's this beautiful mix that I think has probably been the most valuable lesson I've learned in being a good teammate. I mean, it matters. It matters at ESPN. It matters with who you work with, right? It matters in relationships. So I think it's paramount to everything I do in life is you surround yourself with people you want to be teammates with. And how are you making sure you're a good teammate is something I ask my kids a lot.

So what I hear you talk about is like care, like to care about the other person's experience. And that can be listening. It can be a lot. Care can come in a lot of different forms. And so that would be like the origin. I remember when I was doing some early work at one of the multinational, like large global companies, and we're talking about being great teammates for each other.

They kind of looked around the room like, yeah, that's a new thought. This was probably like 15 years ago. That's a new thought. And then someone kind of like looks up and says, well, like, how do you do it? And I said, well, and I'm going to echo what you said. Like, I don't know. It's like, you have to really care. You know, you want to be great for them because like you care about them. And there was like a pause, pause. How do you do that? I was like, oh God, that's right.

We're going to now teach care. And so it seems like foreign, I think, but you, you bring up the feels foreign to me, like how to teach care. And I didn't really, I didn't know how to answer it. I just was puzzled. So if somebody were to answer or ask you that question, like what, how do you care? What, how would you respond to that? Yeah. You, you're interested in someone, you ask questions, you're curious, you, you know, you celebrate them. And again, it goes back to the Sue Bird, you know, response of it was never about me and I'm, I, and it's nothing to take away. I was incredibly competitive. So in a sense, it was about me because I wanted to win. I wanted to perform. I wanted to play. So we're not losing that side of things.

But I also was the first one when a player did well or a teammate did well, like, hell yes, let's go celebrate that. And so I think that's care is just showing that you value them in a way that, you know, sometimes people forget to say it and do it. And it doesn't take long. And it's little things. We talk about it all the time of taking five seconds to tell someone, thanks for making me better today, you know, for pushing me for. And and it's, you know, it's what I talked to with my 14 year old boy, too, because I think boys sometimes think they've got to be all, you know, you know, hey, I'm the man. I'm him. That's what he always says.

How can you do that? Because I'm him, mom. I'm like, what does that mean? I'm him. I am him. I am him. I'm like, who is him? He's funny.

My 14 year old. I'm like, who is him? He's funny, my 14-year-old. But yeah, I think just stopping and taking a second to reflect on others rather than yourself. So there's a tension point in sport and in business, which is I'm trying to be the starter. I'm trying to get my minutes. I'm trying to make sure that I'm closing enough business. There's a lot of that nice stuff in there. And so that is the tension point. When I was at the Seahawks and there was 12 athletes trying out for six spots. And they were carrying, let's say, nine of those athletes for those six spots.

So there's a rotation that can happen at any game, any given Sunday. And one of the things that was really hard to navigate for folks is that they're doing everything they can to get their reps to be their very best. And at the same time, they need to be part of a team. And so it sounds simple to talk about it in a sterile environment you and I are in right now, but it's really hard when there's big emotions. You know, your life dream is there. You see another person doing a little bit better or doing the drill better than you are. And if you could just figure it out, like maybe you'd have a chance at the starting job.

It's like the margins are pretty thin. And then at the same time, root for that person, to cheer for them, to nod your head, to smile, to say afterwards, like, nice job. And to really care about that person's experience. It is harder than it sounds. Yeah, it is. You were always really good though. Did you have that challenge of feeling like on the outside looking in or because that's not how I knew you in pro sport? Yeah, of course. I mean, I think I realized, I mean, I got on the national team at a really young age as well.

So I had all those insecurities as a teenager playing with women and going, what the hell am I doing here? And how is this possible? So I had to fight through those insecurities as well of, uh, you know, feeling like I belonged. But what I think I quickly realized is the more I worried about belonging, the worse I did. So if I continue to just worry and think, oh, shit, what am I doing here? I don't belong here. And have those downward spiral conversations of you stink, you're terrible, you can't kick a ball, you don't have the tactical awareness, all those things. When I started focusing on my deficiencies that I perceived, then I knew my stay with the national team would not be very long. And what I realized is that

I could still be competitive and fight my tail off. But when I was focused on helping others, I actually took some of the pressure off me. that kind of released that burden of me feeling like this imposter syndrome if I focused on just being a good teammate. And maybe that helps someone in a situation that's similar. But I do think that the two aren't mutually exclusive. You don't, you know, it's not I'm really competitive and intense, but I'm not a great teammate. You can be both. And I think that's actually the secret sauce to a really successful group.

Coach Anson Dorrance, who was Mia Hamm's coach. I don't, I don't know him, but I had the, I was listening to him. I was still in graduate school and he was talking about his experience coaching Mia Hamm. And he said that one of the things that she did that changed the game is that she, she cared less about the, the response of her teammates, which early on was like, who do you think you are dribbling the ball down and putting the ball on that? Like, who do you think you are? Like, this is a team sport and maybe I've got this shaped, you know, differently than it actually happened. But I hear, I heard that story and I thought, oh, okay. So Mia cared more about getting better or the objective, which is to, to, to score. And I, and then I hear you say, no, I needed to figure out that, that balance between what are they

going to think of me and pursuing my very best. How did you, how did you do that? How did you navigate what your teammates were thinking about you? And you might say, no, I really didn't think about them much. Like I cared about them, but I didn't let what they thought of me get in the way. Can you thin slice or work in those spaces? Um, let's see. Did I think about how much? Yeah, I, I did. I definitely did because I was so young. Um, and it's the U S team, right? It's like, Holy cow, what am I doing here?

And so, I mean, I was 16 when I first got on that team. Mia was 15, actually. Christine Lilly was another one who was 16. We were the three youngsters brought in. But I do feel like that to my, you know, lesson of the day, thought of the day with Izzy, that my safe place was I was so competitive. I just wanted to win. And so if I could help the team win again, it gave me a focus outside of myself. And so I just focused on, I just want to frigging win.

And when we're winning, good things are happening. And I don't know if that's me, good things are happening to me or what, but I just want to be part of the equation that's winning. And I do think it kind of puts blinders on in a good way from the destructive thoughts of, I just want to do whatever I can to help this team be successful. And that's, I think, a large part of my success and a common denominator you hear always on that national team. Like when I look at those teams that won, won so competitive, but also that like they care deeply about the collective success. And that is not something we got right every year because we didn't win every year. But I do think when we got that right, we won for sure.

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conversation. Sounds like it's going to sound super simple. It sounds like the purpose was really clear to help the team win and to be a contributor to that was the purpose. And if you work back from that framework, if I have that correctly, then, you know, it is not about like, look at me. It's not about my individual contribution. It's about like being a contributor to the purpose, which if I have it right, the purpose is, you know is for the collective, the team to be their very best. Are you more interested, Julia, in the team winning or the team performing at their highest level? Oh, great question. I mean, I would love to say team performing at its highest level, but winning mattered a lot.

And I'm always like, let's not focus on outcomes, people. We know that's dangerous. But like winning mattered. I mean, it did. It did. I did not love my silver medal. I didn't love it. I call it white gold.

I call it white gold. More because like the one, so I played in three Olympics. We won gold in the first and the last one, the middle one was the one we won white gold in. And, um, second best in the world. It's just hard to swallow, isn't it? Second best. I told my mom, I'm being silly. She's like, come on, you just want silver. I was like, I don't want silver. But that was because it was probably the best game final we'd played in a very long time against that Norwegian.

I won't even say what I called it. Gold medal winning Norwegian team. Gold medal Viking bitches. So, I mean, it was one of the best finals we'd ever played, which is why it hurt so much. Because we played so well and we ended up still with the white gold. But yeah, I do think, you know, as much as we could, and I, I completely buy into the idea of like outcome, you cannot be outcome related. I, but I, the reality was we went into every tournament as a U S women's soccer team saying we will be on the top of that podium.

So that's just how it is. And if you're not on the top, then the reality is, is like, that's not good enough. So we had high expectations for sure. I can't help it. Listening to this conversation and looking at your hat, which says be here now. Right. And like, you know, which is very different than go get the outcome. And it is, I appreciate all of the honesty here because, you know, treating those two

imposters the same, victory and defeat. Like it's, I want aspirationally, that feels right to me. And then when I'm in a step down from that, and I feel the anxiousness of not giving the thing that I think is so important for the next phase of my life. But I don't necessarily know like how winning and failure is going to play dividends later. And I do think that some of my most career shifting life perspective, building moments come have come out of really hard times.

Oh, absolutely. Yeah. So it's like at one level, when I say it, it sounds so trite, like, Oh, of course, you know, but then at a deeper level, it's like, no level when I say it, it sounds so trite, like, oh, of course, you know, but then at a deeper level, it's like, no, no, that's real. And I love winning. Yeah. But when I'm, when I'm at my very best, when I'm at my highest, most free self, you know, I'm not, I look up and it's like the buzzer just happened and I have no idea what the

score is. And I, because I'm completely in love with the, the unfolding next moment, you know? And so, okay. So we're on the same page. It's, it's hard. It is really difficult to do. What are you teaching your, your kids? To your point on failure and defeat at every, on our podcast, When the last segment we do on the podcast is something that when they were younger, I did a lot around the dinner table. We do it. They're high of the day. They're low of the day. We call it high, low cheer. And the cheer is for someone that's helped you along the way. Right? So we do this on the podcast. We do high of their career, low of their

career and the cheers for someone who's helped you along the way. Like it's the sense of gratitude for someone, of course. And always on the podcast, the low is what created the high. Almost always. I mean, it's, of course, I mean, failure and extracting that lesson becomes the biggest thing. It's hard to teach, you know, a teenager that. It's hard to explain. I mean, we just had a situation with my daughter recently. I mean, as I was saying, youth sports is very intense and she plays for the highest tier of soccer teams, ECNL level is what they call it. And there's so many different acronyms to it. It gets very confusing. But she was trying out for a better team and didn't know whether she

should or not. Could she make it? And did that mean she would lose her spot on her current team? And it's all these like stressors that these kids have to deal with. And she was getting pressure to sign with the old team. And, um, and I said, Izzy, this is, this is such a good lesson for life, right? Like you're, you're going to be in a situation where it's, you're going to have to walk to the edge and it's a little uncomfortable and you don't know if you can make that leap, right? In terms of like, I'm going to go into this next career. I'm going to try this transition. I don't know if it's going to work out. And so I said, but guess what? You don't know unless you dip your toe in that water. So we're going to, we're going to try out, we're going to try this, this new team that is a bit better and see if we

can make it. And if we don't, then we know that we tried and you won't have those regrets for the rest of your life. And so I think that's where sports is such a valuable tool is, is if we can, if we can make the link as parents, teachers, and we could be planting these seeds all the time, coaches of like, this is a great skillset for life. It's gonna be scary and you're gonna have butterflies and that means it matters and that's a good thing. Let's go try it.

And so I said, we gotta try. So, and she tried out for this new team and made this new team, right? And so now we're like, okay, now you know what it feels like. And it's scary, but you did it. You stepped outside that comfort zone and there is magic on the other side. And guess what? Sometimes there's not going to be, and you're going to fall flat on your face, but you won't

have those regrets for not trying. So again, I go back to what I started with the gift of sport is that I constantly am trying to reframe it for the kids in a sense, if it's my son with basketball, right? It's, you know, he's a great, he was a great passer of the ball and he was a great facilitator. And so my husband and I would have these conversations around the dinner table casually of just like, that's great that you're such a good teammate, but you know what? I think there's the potential for you to be scoring as well, like to step up your game. And so like your game is going to get better when you threaten to score. So people are actually having to defend you and then people will open

up so you can pass to them. And unless you're threatening, you know, your passing is going to be more difficult. So having those conversations about how you step into, again, now that's a more like, hey, you're being a great teammate, but now I want you to focus more on like, how are you going to make the team better by being better yourself? And I don't think, again, those are mutually exclusive. I think you've got to constantly be figuring out how you get better to make the group better. But it's got to be about making the group better. Okay. Let's see if we can think through what, I don't know, a three to five step plan could

be for a car ride. And I'm thinking post car ride. So your son or daughter just got done with practice. And so practice, not a game. Practice. Yeah. Practice. Practice.

What do you, yeah, what do you do? Like, what's the, where do you start? Do you watch, I'm sorry, do you watch practice or are you waiting in the car? No, no, no, no, I do not watch practice. So you're waiting in the car. Do you pick up? I see the pause. Well, I have a large carpool that we're part of.

Thank God. I'm all about the carpool. So I don't. If I'm just in the car with my kid, if it's if it's like a carpool, it's very different, of course. If I'm just in the car with my kids, let's say I'm picking up my kid. I will say, how did it go? Pretty good. It was good, right? Yeah, exactly go pretty good it was good right yeah exactly you get it was good it was good um and then i usually say what did we learn today that's different what did we

learn that was different okay uh now i say that about school too you say him at school yeah so it's consistent so it's not like sport has a deeper meaning to you than than school okay so what did we learn that was new all right cool question does that get him going does that get either your kids going sometimes not always okay because i ask a similar question which was i ask about like did you have any unlocks today so so we're on the same yeah we're on the same kind of start using unlocks yeah well you gotta explain it to him too like what do you mean mom there's no i'm not picking any locks the concrete mind of an adolescent okay and then and then what happens um and then they usually want to go to their phone. And so I say, time out.

Give me like four minutes. Put the phone down. Let's talk. Oh, that phone. Michael, that's a whole other podcast. That phone. Right? The constant battle with the phone.

Because mind you, they've been at practice. They haven't been on their phone for two hours. And God forbid you haven't been on your phone for two hours. Um, so usually I'm like, just give me five minutes, put the phone away and let's talk. Um, that sometimes works. Um, what I have discovered is when your kid is learning to drive or driving, that's a great time for conversation. Is it really? Yeah, because they can't be on their phone. They're watching the road.

They're driving. And so while they're driving, I mean, they can still talk and they're paying attention, but we have a lot of really great conversations because they're not on their phone. Oh, that is a, okay. That's an unlock for me today. Yeah. All right. That's coming soon. Okay. Finding Mastery is brought to you by iRestore. When it comes to my health, I try to approach things with a proactive mindset. It's not about avoiding poor health.

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the code finding mastery at checkout. That's lisa.com. The promo code is finding mastery for 25% off and then plus an extra $50 on us because quality sleep is just too important to leave to chance. And then so in that four to five minute frame, and I love that you time bound it. That is awesome. So it decreases their anxiety. They know it's a 20 ride, 35 minute car ride home, whatever. Okay. So four to five minutes. And then in that four to five minutes, what are you trying to help illuminate? Are you trying to share wisdom? Are you trying to just get their perspective? Do you just want them? I've really tried to limit my urge to give feedback,

right? Especially in the soccer space. Cause my kid is like, look, I know you know soccer. So do we have to talk about this all the time? Right. So I really try and just elicit like their thoughts rather than give this like I I've tried to really fight the urge to just throw up my thoughts on them and be like, let me hear from you. How was it? What did you learn? What new things are you trying? Those kinds of things. That's what, that's what I'm going for. Or just like, what was the vibe of the team? Like, what did the players say? How's the team doing? Those kinds of conversations. Like what's the feeling, the mood amongst the group? And do you have a sense of that?

Because again, I feel like that is such a part of success of a team, right? If that vibe is good, what did the coach say? Those kind of things. That's one of my favorite questions, which is like, what did the coach share after practice? And then I'll say, did you get any individual coaching from the coaches? What was that about? You know, and so like trying to understand that Greg Olson, he's a, he played at the Seah coaching you sport and he's got this great practice is that he would pull all the coaches in at the end of practice when the kids would take a knee and the coach would say, you know, something for two to three minutes, whatever it is. And he would have the parents make a half circle behind them so that he's delivering one message to the family.

And so the car ride home was really about that message. And so that was a really good practice. Yeah. Yeah. Good practice. All right. Cool. Do you have, do you have a,

as we're wrapping it up here, do you have a moment on the car ride home where you're like, Oh, I wish I could take this one back. Yes. Oh, of course. I think we all parents do.

I do too. You know, I, I, this happened recently actually. And, and, uh, my husband and I were in the car together and I think I reacted to something a little strongly and my husband shot me that stink eye of like too soon. Not now. Like, you know, like, uh, no, don't do that. Right. Not right now. Not in the car right now. Um, so yeah, of course you do. But I think the thing that I, I mean, another thing I really lock in on is during a game watching, it's never like instruction to my kid i really try like if i'm gonna say anything from the sidelines it's to the collective or it's congratulating other players like

celebrating other players great pass mckayla good shot mckenna um way to go win you know like and and i think um locking in again on the collective and the power of that and giving that example as a parent rather than like hollering at your kid. So that is something I really lock in on. But I've really tried. I just think like you cannot in that moment of whether you win or lost, right? Especially if you lost, like, just like save it, save it for at least 24 hours. And then you can always come back to it when you're in a better space, like your, your kids in a better space. And, um, I mean, that's true of anything in life. I think you need to give that 24 hour window, but I really try and honor that.

It's funny you say that. Cause I know that to be the case. And then 24 hours later, it's like, I'm less interested. Yeah. They have zero interest in it. You know, they've moved on to whatever. And so for a lot of reasons, it's a it's a it's a really good marker. Right. Exactly. You're like, why did I care so deeply about that? Yeah. What was going on with me? But now I'm like, who cares? Yeah, exactly. Are you okay? That's what I often think. Are you all right, parent? To parent. Yeah, I know. Yeah. And I love, I love the insight, like at games. Um, it's, it's more about the collective or, you know, supporting everybody as opposed to anything that has to do with my son.

That's for sure. Yeah. Okay. Quick hits. You ready? Yes. Okay. This is like answers in one or two, one or two words answers. Okay. Okay. Don't have too much fun. Wait, I got to lock in. I got to lock in. Yeah. Be here now. I'm in. Be here now. All right. Good. Got my power pose going. Okay. Okay. This is where I get competitive. See, I get competitive. I'm like, Be here now. All right, good. Got my power pose going. Okay. Uh-huh. Okay. This is where I get competitive. See, I get competitive. I'm like, let's go. That's good.

Perfect. All right. It all comes down to? It all comes down to joy. Living the good life is marked by? Laughter. Success is doing something significant.

Choosing to matter. Pressure comes from within, of course. Blank will win the 2023 World Cup. Oh, damn. Damn. World Cup. Oh, damn. Germany.

I know. Who tells you no? Not those people that told you to reel it in. They did not. Who tells me no? They did not win there my dog every day nope i'm not walking this way nope wait what is your dog's name swaggy swaggy p it's perfect of course it's swaggy did you have did Did you identify with swag? Is that where that came from? There was a basketball player that played for the Lakers named Swaggy P. There was a friend of ours naming their dog Swagger. We're like, oh, we're going to steal that. Well, we're going to call her Swaggy well we're gonna call her swaggy d swaggy dog

instead of swaggy p so um yes swaggy she's got a lot of swag did you have swag when you played no no no you had no swag that's so funny still no swag yeah okay and then um last one what would you title this conversation? Thoughtful. You're always thoughtful, Michael. Thoughtful. I love that. That's a good one. About you.

Thank you. Oh, thank you. Your podcast, what you do, how you live is thoughtful. You make people stop and think, and I am not great at that. So I appreciate you for going, well, how did you do this? And why did you do that? Wait, I don't know. I don't know. Like I was just doing my thing. Yeah. All right. Well, you know, thank you for everything that you stand for the beacon that you are in your life. Uh, for so many people, um, the consistency in how you line up your words, your thoughts and your actions is super. It's so easy to see that.

Yeah, and it's refreshing. So where do you want to drive folks? Where's the best place to guide them? Go check out the podcast, Laughter Permitted, with Julie Foudy. Yeah, check out our Leadership Academy academy we've been doing this incredible using sports as kind of the vehicle to teach leadership to young girls juliefaddyleadership.com

we do that every summer that's kind of my passion project so check out Angel City you don't have to check out me see you again I don't see just keep out me. See you again. I don't. See, just keep pointing. Yeah, like point to others, not yourself. Who cares what you're doing?

So you've done over 100 episodes, right? On Left to Committed. What's the like? All women too. All women. All women. All women. Yeah.

And basically, I can't remember if I said this in the last podcast, but I'll say it again. But basically, the idea started because ESPN had podcasts, but they were obviously mostly male listeners, mostly male guests. And so I think I told you this because I know I met you originally through Kerry Walsh Jennings. That's right. And so our first two podcast guests to convince ESPN, we were like, well, first of all, I didn't want to do a podcast. And my producer at ESPN was like, you need to do a podcast. There's so much fun. And we'll just do all these amazing women. So the two of us put, asked Mia Hamm and Carrie, who both lived like two blocks from each other, um, at the time in Manhattan beach, if they would be our Guinea pigs. And we did like two sample podcasts. We sent them to espn and within like a day they

were like yes yes let's go and so you've had a bunch of friends you've had of our friends like sue inquest was on yeah oksana masters yeah um april and alex the yeah yeah you've had a bunch yeah becky was on our podcast so it was kelly o'hara she was on yeah i mean yeah we've had a bunch yeah becky was on our podcast so was kelly o'hara she was on yeah i mean yeah we've had all of them yeah you've had some incredible folks on yeah so and that i mean like how can you call this a job you get a you get to learn from people every day and and listen and and react and it's just so much fun like podcasts are so fun because it's, as you know, it's like, oh my God, I just, I gotta, I gotta call this a job today. Like, come on, that's so much fun. So that's how I feel when I'm doing it. They are, they are fun. So as a reductionist question, like,

is there one big takeaway that you're, you know, that you're carrying with you right now that you've learned from all of these incredible women? Oh gosh gosh. Yeah. I mean, I think the thing when I look at all of them and their success, I mean, our one requirement is not even that they have to be an athlete. I know it's an ESPN podcast. It's not even that they have to be an athlete. They just have to be a trailblazer is our one thing, like in whatever field they are. And I think that's the thing I always come back to is the courage it takes in those moments when everyone else is saying something different and you inside, you know, like, no, no, I know this is right. And I am gonna live this out, whether it's a dream, whether it's helping someone starting something,

making that leap and getting to that edge. And, um, and the ways in which they summon the courage to get it done or to be the best version of themselves is what always fascinates me. So that's a lot. I mean, we don't, we rarely talk X's and O's, right? We're not breaking down tactical stuff. It's just, it's life and what you're learning out of it. And as we said, your low often becomes your high and that's how they learn is they probably go through a lot of lows as well. Has somebody interviewed you? Have one of these incredible women interviewed you? Because I think that the narrative that you just described is exactly who you are. And like,

have you, have you had the mic turned on you on yours? Oh yeah. Occasionally they'll start asking questions and I'll be like, ah, excuse me. I am the host of this podcast. I asked the questions.

I think inquest inquest probably did that because she's always asking questions. She's so curious. I love her. She's so good. All right her. She's so good. All right, Julie, always a blast. Appreciate you. And all right, Michael. Good to see you.

May it be before Paris in 2024, bro. Let's let's do that. OK. All right. Take care. Bye. Bye bye. All right.

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