Finding Mastery with Dr. Michael Gervais - Why Most Athletes Break - And How We Didn’t | Brandie Wilkerson and Melissa Humana-Paredes

Episode Date: September 17, 2025

What does it take to win an Olympic medal—while navigating the mental and emotional rollercoaster of the Games?On today’s episode, Dr. Gervais sits down with Olympic silver medalists Brandie Wilkerson and Melissa Humana-Paredes, their legendary coach Marcio Sicoli, and moderator David Belasco to go behind the curtain of Team Canada’s incredible 2024 beach volleyball run.This is more than a sports story, it’s a masterclass in resilience, trust, and unlocking human potential under the world’s brightest spotlight. From navigating emotional turbulence to breaking routines that held them back, this conversation reveals the uncommon mindset and team culture that fueled their breakthrough.In this conversation, you’ll learn:How radical honesty built trust that carried them through pressureWhy shared values created unshakable team alignmentThe emotional reality of Olympic highs and lowsHow breaking routines unlocked their best performanceLessons in leadership, resilience, and culture from the Olympic stageThis rare inside look at Team Canada’s silver medal journey will inspire you to rethink what’s possible when purpose, honesty, and courage collide.-------------------------------------Links & ResourcesSubscribe to our Youtube Channel for more conversations at the intersection of high performance, leadership, and wellbeing: https://www.youtube.com/c/FindingMasteryGet exclusive discounts and support our amazing sponsors! Go to: https://findingmastery.com/sponsors/Subscribe to the Finding Mastery newsletter for weekly high performance insights: https://www.findingmastery.com/newsletter Download Dr. Mike's Morning Mindset Routine: findingmastery.com/morningmindset!Follow on YouTube, Instagram, LinkedIn, and XSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Picture this. It's late 2022. Spending more time with my family and pouring energy into finding master. Then my phone rings. It's legendary beach volleyball coach Marcio Sicoli. His voice has that unmistakable spark. He says, Jervais, I've got something interesting for you. You're definitely going to want to hear this. Now, when Marcio says something interesting, I know that this is not a casual lunch invite. A few days later, I'm sitting across the table from him and two Canadian athletes. hadn't yet met as a team. Brandy Wilkerson and Melissa Humana Paredes were crammed into a beachside coffee shop, mismatched chairs, half-cold cappuccinos, and within minutes, I feel it. This wasn't going to be a casual meeting. This was going to become an adventure. Welcome back. Or welcome to

the Finding Mastery podcast, where we dive into the minds of the world's greatest thinkers and doers. I am your host, Dr. Michael Jervais, by trade and training a high-performance psychologist. Now, the idea behind these conversations. It's simple. It's to sit with the extraordinaries and to learn, to really learn about how they work from the inside out. So fast forward to the summer of 2024. Against all odds, Brandy and Melissa are standing on the sand in Paris playing for a spot on the Olympic podium. Their path is anything but smooth. They nearly crashed out in pool play, saved by a single point in a last chance lifeline. They fought through doubt, anger, tears.

and the weight of never having seen Canada medal in women's Olympic beach volleyball. Yet, they rose, match after match, night after night, until they were facing the number one team in the world. A few months later, before the adrenaline fully faded, we gathered in Los Angeles at the Mastery Lab, Marcio, Melissa, Brandy, myself,

and our friend USC professor Dave Belasco who guided the conversation. What unfolded was part debrief, part love letter to resilience and part behind the scenes account of what it really takes to walk into the fire together come through on top this is that conversation never before released a story as relevant today as it was then trust grit and the belief that nobody does the extraordinary alone well it's wonderful to be here with four people that i really admire and am inspired by. I know Mike quite well. He's been a pillar of my class at USC on mindset for

years, and he was the co-founder with Pete Carroll and myself on a performance science institute. So you've taught thousands and thousands of USC students, so thank you. And for Melissa and Brandy, I mean, you not only inspired Canada, but the world and following your Olympic run. And so to bring all of you together and have this conversation really is a privilege and to go sort of behind the scenes. So let's start with the two less famous people right now. Marcio and Dr. Mike. This is true. That's cracked. Let's talk about your relationship and how a renowned American sports psychologist wound up advising and coaching with Team Canada. Do you talk about the relationship with Mike and how you invited him to this team? Wow. Where do I start it? I think here's where

I started, I met Mike in previous Olympics, and that was just like right away, he is the best in the world. This is why I wanted you on the funny. That's all we needed. You can go now. In terms of like the mindset and in terms of the psychology of the sport, but the most important thing in terms of like the human relationships. So he knows how that works. And then for me, you know, we had a small budget. We had, you know, not the means to do it.

And then I just put it out there. And I said, Mike, here's the deal. I have two apples and two bananas. Do you want to go on that project with me? And he goes like, maybe sports, ball sports again. I'm not sure. But in our first meeting, you know, for some reason, the players were late. And then we got to catch up a little bit.

And it just felt right. just felt right on my end. And I'm just happy. So there's a, I just watched you two go, we were late. Yeah. But there's a story behind that. Yeah. So the way that I remember, the way this, our relationship first was through Carrie Walsh and Misty May. And we spent two quads, one quad, two quads, with them supporting them. And I loved working with you. There was something about the way that you truly support somebody and honestly challenge them. And with all of your technical prowess, I'm like, there's something genius about working with you. And I felt it, and I watched it, and I loved it. And then I thought I was kind of done with volleyball when they

retired. It was Kerry and April. And then Kerry kind of retired, was in a transition phase. And I thought I was pretty much done with volleyball at that point. Great run. Amazing. And then I got a call from you that said, it was two years into this quad. He said, I've got something interesting. And you thought you were done too. Yep. Right? Yep. Both of us thought we were done in Olympic volleyball, which is the pinnacle of the sport.

And I said, well, what do you mean? And you said, there's these two athletes that are really special. And I said, what do you mean? And you said, I want you to meet them. I said, great. And I trusted you on the physical prowess of them. And so we set up a breakfast. Yep.

And that was so I could like know your character. and then you're 15 minutes late and I was like so right but the way you handled that I think we set them to the wrong place by accident there's two restaurants with the same name two different cities you went to city one we were at city two and but the way that you walked in with a presence with a humility with a grace with an apology but but you didn't give yourself away like like you were a disaster and I felt the presence and I felt the internal power that you walked in with I thought, oh, well, there's something to that. And then he invited me down to watch you play, and I said, oh, there's something to that.

And so it was the combination of physical and character that allowed us to go one more time and see if we could create magic and so it was awesome. And I want to talk about the essence of your partnership, so everyone gets a sense of who you are. Can you talk about what bind you? Do you have shared values that you talk about? Do you have uncompromising principles that you've set up in your partnership? Because you do seem quite attuned. I know at least one of you has had a partnership that wasn't as healthy maybe.

And so from the outside, it looks like you play with joy. And you exhibit that and we all feel it. Can you talk about the shared values that brought you together as a team and what you just aren't willing to compromise? The first thing that comes to mind when I think of what we're not willing, to compromise. I think it's ourselves. Like our values, I think we've both been through life's experiences where boundaries were bent and broken. Things weren't said. Honesty wasn't there. And we suffered from that. We lost ourselves. We lost what was important to us and that joy. So when you are faced with an opportunity to regain that and rebuild that in a very

beautiful, amazing way, you're going to protect that. And I think we respect that of each other. Melissa and I are very different in a lot of places. Okay, we're pretty opposites. And I think that's what binds us together to be able to show up in different ways and also respect the differences. Melissa provides so much space for me to be who I am. And that's important to me. And I hope I provide something for her that allows her to be who she wants to be.

I'm not going to speak for you. I think those things are important. I wouldn't want people to be mistaken to think that you cannot. only work with like-minded people or people who are exactly the same as you because I truly think that's what makes our team successful, but it's a lot more work and you need a lot more support and a lot more clarity and you need to just know who you are. So if Melissa and I met at any other point in our careers or in our lives, I'm not exactly sure it would have worked. So I know we've known each other for over a decade, but I was like four, I don't even know who that person was

when I first met. And I don't think we would have gotten along. So everything needs to happen and it's timing. And we're just reaping the benefits of the lessons and the beauty of it. And I think that's why the joy is so natural, because it's like you kind of get to finally be free. And I have so much admiration and respect for your journey. And I also understand what it takes to put in some hard work. So whenever I see you successful, I'm going to rejoice in that and love it and be present and just be more optimistic on life. And I'm very grateful for everything you represent for me more than just as a teammate. For sure. Yeah. So much goodness and everything you said. And as you were talking, there were so many things I wanted to say as well. But I think

having that history that we had together from going back to when we met first year, college and so yeah who we were back then was like five different versions of who we are now and so i think that's been such a beautiful part of our journey is being able to see where we came from who that person was who that woman was who that athlete was and how we've evolved and grown to who we are now and continue to change like even since we got together two years ago seeing growth even in that time has been so fulfilling and i think something that really has connected us in a way that maybe we haven't felt in previous partnerships, both on the sand and in real life and just like connections, human connections that we've created in our lives.

I think that's kind of what has kept us together through really high highs and really low lows. I think that has been foundational for us. I think there's always been this kind of like safe space that I've seen in Brandy and I don't really know what I can pinpoint that too. Maybe it's this like she's seen me first, from when I was like 18 years old. And we've been on different sides of the net together. We've been on the same side of the net together. But what I think that we really provided was a safe space.

And I think that was also attributable to these two with us who were, they were able to kind of cultivate a culture of authenticity and of like zero judgment. It was like who you are today and who you are tomorrow and who you are the day after. What you have to bring in that moment, I think we are accepting of it without judgment. And I think that was like really radical for me to feel like I could truly be myself and show all my flaws and show every side of me. And I'll still be loved. I'll still be respected. I'll still be accepted.

And I'm going to be pushed to be even better tomorrow. Even when it's not going well. Yes. Especially when we all made mistakes at the games. And you didn't make any. Oh, I made. I made the, I made the most. I'm curious to hear.

about your mistakes, but yeah, we made, I'm looking at Marceau, we made a ton of mistakes. Yeah, oh yeah. I think, you know, looking, always looking back, that there was one thing, it was like, oh, I wish I would say that. I wish we would have that hour. I wish with that. And then it became this like huge mistake. But I felt the way that we did things was never hiding those mistakes and we're actually not explaining those mistakes. Everybody knew it. That was a mistake. Everybody knew it. And then we're like, okay. we're going to move forward because tomorrow we do have another opportunity to make it right. So in the games, we could see your mistakes. The world could see your mistakes. And for you to

try to maybe hide them to the inner team, you never did it. You didn't try to excuse it away. You didn't try to blame it away. You stayed in that honest place. To me, it's evidence of the 24 months before that you were like being honest so that you when you arrived at the games, you could be honest. Like, yeah, I don't know what it is. I can't figure out why I'm a half second late or whatever. And you guys just stayed in it for each other, with each other. That was rad. Finding Master is brought to you by Square. One of my favorite local spots here in Southern California, it's a small cafe near the ocean. There's nothing fancy. It's just good food, great people. And it's a place that's become part of my weekly rhythm. I've watched them grow over the

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follow Finding Mastery on LinkedIn, you would have seen these posts. And as an aside, if you don't follow us, please do. We post content there that you can't get anywhere else. It's how we found our recent project managers, Janelle and Taylor. And it's how we found. we found our lead producer, Emma. We love what LinkedIn has created and has been such a great service for us as we've grown. If you're looking to grow your team with intention, this is a great place to start. Post your job for free at LinkedIn.com slash finding mastery. That's LinkedIn.com slash finding mastery to post your job for free. Terms and conditions apply. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I heard that in your voice just now. Yeah. Right? Just because it was so clearly evident from all of the work,

that was done before from you guys unwavering standard of honesty that we bought into in practice. It was like, I can remember one of the first conversations of us as a team at practice. And I was like coming up to you complaining about some pass-set thing. And I was just like, I don't know. I feel like she does this or I don't know if I'm not doing this. And then you're like, Melissa, Brandy thinks to do that. And I'm like, oh, my God. I was like, no secrets.

he's not wrong like I should probably just talk to her about it you just like in one second was like no your name came out her mouth so you must be talking to her so I was like that's the way we're going to do it because I didn't even catch myself so it's like little things like that and then obviously like countless car rides and hotel rooms and after game and we've had some crazy talks post bad losses and things like that that were uncomfortable and we were still trying to figure out how to do it. Like, did the talk happen right after? Did it happen like four hours later? But we still tried. And then so to get to the Olympics and truly feel like you can say and do anything was a huge part of why we got the medal. Yeah. Two things on that. One is you guys don't use the

word let. I am, I was going to let her be herself, which is an Uber controlling small little word three-letter word that is like really insidious and you don't use that word you're like i'm going to celebrate her being her and that that is the first principle is really important the second thing that i think is radical and i'm going to look at you marcio is emotions yeah so the olympics are for big emotions did you have big emotions brandy i guess kind of not as big as i wanted them to me. Wait, wait, hold on. Hold on. I saw some big emotions. There were, but I thought it was going to be like way, I wanted, we should get into that. Yeah, no, we should. Okay, but I'll emphatically, you had big emotions. Oh, and the whole team knows it.

Oh, just because I threw the chair on the wall? No, not that one. You broke a chair. That was fine. It was broken. That's not a problem. That was not the one I was even talking about. I was talking about in our pre-meeting. Oh, the one where I was, some of those. I'm not asking to air it out, but there was big emotions. And you can air it all out. Yeah. You had Emotions. Massive. Marcio, you have huge emotions. Absolutely. I kissed you. You did. Yeah. You said to wear it out.

That happened too. So how many times did you feel or actually cry during the games? We were there for 21 days? Actually, this play, how many times do you think you cried? Every game? Every game. Oh yeah. Yeah, like maybe every post-practice too.

Oh, post-practice. No, I didn't see that one coming. No, I think so. Every game for sure. Not post practice. Oh, okay. Like, it was a lie. Yeah, every day.

This is not to call you out in that way. It's the Olympics are for big emotions and you need incredible courage to go to the edges of emotions. And I was on a team where you guys went to the edges of all of the emotions and still held each other in high regard. Life is for big emotions. If you want a full life, a life of flourishing. one that is radically experienced. You need, we need, I need to know how to go to the edges of all of my emotions. You guys are epic reminders of it.

I got to witness it every day. You opened the aperture for me up in so many ways as well. I am so honored to be part of this team. I can't tell you. And the whole experience from that point for me was the real Olympics. The medal was cool. but it allows us to tell the story in a in a way that grabs attention it the real story is the aperture that opened up for big emotions and to take care of each other as we did it i get emotional

watching my friends compete and just think you know what her father and mother of us feel like so i want to know what was what were those emotions that brought tears was it pride was it admiration was it fury what was it what was it that brings that out in you number one i cry for ever So I'm like really sensitive on that. If you see someone crying an airplane, watching like a dad and a kid, movie, that's me. That will be me. I just feel that when I have those tear eyes and that emotion, it is just about the love that we're there. We're there. And it's for me, it's easier and, you know, easier and then plus have more clarity inside of myself when I let it go. And be okay to say like, you know what? I'm crying. Yes. This is this is how I'm going to handle that. But, you know, I'm here in the next two minutes and then we're on this together. Yeah. There was never this like, oh my God, I can't cry. I'm the strong coach. I'm the coach. I'm this. No, we were all a bunch of human beings trying to do something that was impossible. You know, they don't know that, but that was the first time ever. And then I'm like, not going to say how old I am. But since I'm doing this, this that like after game one I have to leave the bleachers and find a secret place and vomit because that was how nervous I was and I never did that on my entire life and I came back Michael like I grew okay I was like yeah I'm good we're good yeah well game two and I knew exactly

what was happening you know you had that white look and but he was like okay I'm good but did you see this before in previous Olympics no no no no so this was a new this was something different This was, I think, of different games for all of us. Yeah. Totally different. Yeah. And it was set up on meeting one. Yeah.

And where you also brought forward all of that love. And you were very clear, like, I'll share a first principle of mine that nobody does the extraordinary alone. We need each other. And this thing was rested on that. And you were the anchor for it for all of us. And the first meeting, you were in full tears. no, we're going to do this thing differently. We're not going to just go and compete our asses off to get to the podium and then have

the thing fray. And we're not going to arrive, you know, competing to the Olympics and not like each other. Like it was totally grounded in, you were the anchor for the whole thing. Yeah, I agree. Yep. I have so many thoughts as you're both speaking. One, my favorite memory, one of my favorite members of the Olympics is, I'm so happy someone recorded this, but with your reaction, the three of you, that you, you,

Fiapo and Marcio after we won the semifinals and how you each emoted so differently. It took you a minute. You were like sitting in the chair. Mike and Fiapo are hugging immediately. And then like you're still sitting in the chair and then Mike comes to you to be like, come on. And then you just like jump up and like I just to see the emotions that we couldn't see because we're on the court having our own moment. And so seeing the behind the scenes, I'm honestly so grateful someone recorded that because it adds so much more to our journey. and add so much more like expansiveness to the emotions we felt knowing how you were reacting on the sides because you're yeah you're such a big part of this and you really guided how we

operated of the team and you could see in that video I hope we can show it on the podcast but like how much it meant to you as well because this was like these are people that are behind the scenes that don't really get the attention or the acknowledgement that you deserve because we're the ones on the sand the cameras are on us but this is is like the heart of the team. So that moved me so deeply. And to hear how emotional it was for you was incredible. But also when I think about myself and when you asked

how many times did you cry at the Olympic Games, there were days before the Olympic Games where I was getting a little emotional. But when I got in Paris, I didn't really cry as much as I thought I would actually ever until after pool play. And you and I went for a walk in the forest. It was a forest. It was not a forest.

We just labeled it that. There was no real forest in Paris. There were just trees. It was the dark force of the soul. It was raped by the bathrooms almost where the trees are. That was our forest. And we had just lost, like basically our pool. And we had found out we had to play in this lucky loser match.

And everything was... The listener probably doesn't know the stakes of what that is. Okay, yeah. Were we going in in fifth place or fourth place? fourth place what was the rank you're fourth fourth in the world fourth in the world seated first in the pool and they had never a Canada has never podiumed correct and beach volleyball yeah never won a medal in beach volleyball women's women's and so so that's the context and then at this moment you're now in last place yeah you've fallen from fourth to last place and first in your pool favored to win your pool yeah you win your

first match against Paraguay, you lose to the young Swiss team. And then with a lot of stakes on the line, you lose to Latvia. And then you wind up in the lucky loser. By a point. One point. By a point. And what's crazy is a couple weeks before the Olympics when we were doing our pre-mortem conversations, which basically was airing out all of our, like what's the worst thing that could happen, like our kind of our fears heading into the Olympics, airing it out on a big whiteboard. We wrote it all down and we kind of troubleshooted. Like, what's, okay, how are we going to prepare for this if this happens? Like, what's the worst thing that could happen? Um, which I was scared to do in general because I didn't want to give it energy. I didn't want to put my fears out

there and like give them power. But I think it was actually so powerful to do that. But one of the things that I said was we don't make it out of pool. That's the worst thing that could happen at the Olympics for me. That was top of mind. And that almost happened. So like the worst thing for me almost happens and I was in like a complete state of shock because there was no way that was a reality. I remember saying it out loud in our premortem chat being like, I know this will never happen. I remember that. But if we don't make it at a pool, like, and I know when I kept qualifying saying, no, it would never happen.

Like it's so far from reality for us that we would even be in that position. It would be one of the worst things that could take place. Yes. And here we are. And it almost happened. That was a shock. That hit my system in a way that I wasn't prepared for. And I remember we were on our forest walk.

you looked at me very early on on the walk and you said, have you cried yet? And I was like taken aback by that question. I didn't like that question. And I remember getting kind of defensive and I was like, no. Why would I, why would I cry? Like that would make things very final for me. Like, you know, it's not over yet.

And I'm crying as I'm saying this. Like just you opened the floodgates for me in that moment. And it felt like a huge release. And it just felt every day after that I cried randomly. Wow. No idea why. I would wake up in the morning, I would be facetiming my boyfriend, and I'd be crying. He goes, why are you crying?

I said, I don't know why I'm crying. I would be journaling and I would be crying on my paper. And they were like happy tears. Some of them were tears of fear. Some of them were tears of insecurity. Some of them were like gratitude tears, just everything. It just opened up this emotion, like moments I had never experienced in my life before. I felt at the Olympics.

Very cool. And wouldn't have been able to feel that if it wasn't for like the people we were with. Very cool. the way we capture ideas matters for me the new remarkable paper pro move has just changed how i work on the go it's a digital paper tablet about the size of a paperback book it's light enough to slip into a pocket and it's also powerful enough to hold everything notes documents and to-dos wherever work takes me it goes with me the writing experience is unlike anything else it looks and feels and even sounds like paper but with the power of digital i can handwrite my notes turn them into text organize them in folders and then share them instantly with others. And because there's no apps or social media, it's designed to help people stay present. It's also beautifully crafted. It lasts up to two weeks on a single charge, which means I can take it anywhere I go, wherever I need to show up without missing a beat.

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Lori has found that many of us do the exact opposite of what will make our lives better. On the Happiness Lab, she takes you through scientific research and then share some surprising stories that just might change the way you think about happiness. Join Dr. Lori Santos this fall with episodes on her hand-picked back-to-school reading list for adults looking to lead fuller, happier lives. Listen to the Happiness Lab wherever you get your podcast. This is not about like you have to cry to be great. No.

This is about you have to know how to work with emotions to be great. All of the emotions, even if you need to break a chair. Or the wall. Or who broke what? No one's supporting violence here. But there was a moment, right? And so those are the edges. If you can't go to the edges, I don't think you'll ever find out what you're capable of.

And if you play it tight and safe and small, you can get good results. in life but never the extraordinary oh yeah brandy what were you experiencing after the loss to lot yeah going into the lucky loser give us your state of mind and what what tools did you rely on maybe that you had practiced with the team and and you're you're a student mindset and you you do the inner work i've i follow you enough on instagram to know that you're on that so what skills did you rely on at that time to turn it around because Mel was not playing well you weren't playing well as a team. Whoa, whoa, whoa. That's the truth. I'm joking. I'll take it on a chair. I'm just joking. Okay. I'm sorry. I feel terrible. She sold me that too. I was coaching great.

Yeah, no mistake. But this sport is brutal. You are 100% dependent upon one person your partner. You could be playing lights out, and if your partner's not there with it. And I'm not saying that's the case because it wasn't. But what were you experienced there and what tools did you rely on to turn it around and be ready for the lucky loser match? Were you mad? Oh, yeah, I was furious. And that's the thing I have allowed myself to practice is to truly feel all of my emotions and fully. And so if anger was the thing that came up, I remember just screaming like, oh, you're fucking kidding me.

just like ripping things apart. I don't know if we talked much. We did a little bit, but it's like I'm not here to like check up on you and do what you're doing. We're here to connect to make sure that we both understand what the next move is and we're both good. I have full trust in your process as you have in mind. So it was just more of what I felt was more of a check-in. Like we're still good. I'm pissed. I'm going to go do this now. That's my emotions. That's where I'm feeling. But I think my entire life I've been so used to working with so little so that if it's just one point that we have that camped us in the game, that was enough for me to be like, we're still going to win this. And so it was just another opportunity to practice making something out of nothing. And it was exciting to me to do that.

It was freeing when we finally did get to a calm place. And I remember sitting on that bench before the game because we're so ill-performed. We didn't even have close to change in. We had no foresight of being in this position. And you're like, should we do some video? I'm like, no, we're just going to like go for this. And everyone loved to watch us play that game. They saw us have some fun.

And I appreciated Marcio's directness and setting the tone in terms of like, no, I'm not even going to like talk to you about this. It's so outrageous. Do what you know how to do. And so that was a good reminder of that as well. But I think the thing for me that was most important and the thing I used the entire game was just, I already knew where we were going to end up. So it was just getting there. And as long as you give me even one little breathing space, I'm going to take it and run.

So I think that's what I had to lean on. Yeah. If I can chime in, what I saw in those moments after was like guttural emotions from Brandy, like a whole spectrum. Like, and after both of the games that we lost that we believe truly we shouldn't have lost, I saw her really feel in ways I hadn't really seen before. And it was done in a way that never made it feel like it was pointed at me. It was genuinely her emotions, how she was feeling these, and how much it meant to her is what I saw as well.

And again, it was done in a way that was so respectful of my experience as well, but also she was going to feel this her way. And I thought as a partner that was like a form of leadership and self-awareness that I'd never really seen before. seen before because yes, like I was, I felt like I was letting the team down. And this was my partner who was standing by my side regardless. She was going to feel the depths of the disappointment and the anger of what was happening, but she was never going to make me feel bad for it. She was going to allow me to move through it and just know that she's still with me. And that was

something that I think I didn't know I was capable of having in someone and feeling in somebody. And so to see this kind of progress and evolve heading into the lucky loser game, I felt so much freedom because of that. And we were, our backs were against the wall. Like there was no way we should have maybe felt free or like relaxed or jointed like together. But we were. And that's testament again to these two, to us, what we've done together. And so like I think very few teams, if any, would have been able to survive what we survived and make it out alive. I completely agree with that.

And we've seen some heavy situations. I'm looking at Marcio, both in volleyball and otherwise. I completely agree with that. I was having a conversation with our producer, Kevin, earlier that I don't think that many teams could have done what you've done. Yeah. Yeah, it was radical. And I think, Brandy, you led with all of that emotion. And there was a leadership moment in that in so much as you didn't fray the relationship, the teammate, the bonding.

There's leadership in that, and I'm not sure how you did it, because we were not in the room, just you two. And I think of the 24 months that we had done a lot of work, you were able to not get sucked in. Oh, no, it's like I'm belowing it. I'm the reason. It's me. It's me. Now I'm looking at you, Mel. Like you were able to maintain your boundary, and you were able to maintain your boundary.

There was a nice Venn diagram, but it wasn't an ameshed relationship. Technically what that means is when one person wobbles. the other one wobbles and you did not do the emmeshment thing which is awesome and i'll never forget what you just said brandy i'll never forget how you just said it and what you said that you're used to working with very little that is like not only just powerful it's honest and that's i didn't know how you did it well then oh thanks yeah well that's you yes y'all that's awesome i didn't have to have very little with y'all so that's the beauty of it well that's interesting it is a testament to the work that when the stakes were the highest and the pressure was the highest that you felt free because that's what

dr mike and and marcio would want is that they want you to bring 100% of your talents to every situation and you can't do that if you're not playing free you know what marcio did that um and i'll never forget this this was going and talking and remember when it was and you probably say it all the time but it just hit me differently. Marcio just says, go wake up your senses. Go wake up all of your senses. And you've probably said that a million times. And it just hit me like the simplicity and go out there and be more animalistic, more like,

you don't need to use your thinking brain because you have, of course, we all do, but like just go wake up your senses and let the true information come in and you'll know how to respond. Do you remember him saying that? Vividly. Yeah. But I also remember this was heading into the, this was our do-or-dye match, right? The Lucky Loser game. I remember when we were getting ready for our team meeting to go over the game plan,

which we normally do. It's part of our routine all the time. We go over the game plan and then we go warm up. And he comes into the change room and says, there is no game plan. We are just going to play free. We're going to listen to our instincts. We're going to play like we know how to play. You know how to do this.

And we're just going to go. And that was both like really terrifying for me. but also really freeing, which was something that I hadn't felt yet at the Olympics, was that, like, kind of permission to feel free and to just, like, go with what I'm feeling on the court rather than what I'm thinking, I'm overthinking this play, I'm overthinking that play, and I'm not living in the moment and, like, going off of what my guts telling me on the court. And so when you said, there's no game plan, awaken your senses, be in the moment, and we know, we've talked about being in the moment before, which we train it.

But when you're in those moments, sometimes you forget. And so that was a reminder that I definitely needed to hear. And heading into that warm-up was so different. And heading into that game was so different. And I actually remember in right before they were going to call us out before that game, it was night time. It was like 10 p.m. And that's when they light the Eiffel Tower.

The Eiffel Tower was in full beauty. Oh, it was beautiful night. It was gorgeous. Wasn't that like, honestly, before you finish your story, wasn't that like magical? It was. Like indescribable. The whole, the whole underneath the Eiffel Tower. Unbelievable.

I don't know how any. world games can ever compete with where you guys got to compete and where we got to coach from like I don't know a world game that can do that like it's hard to talk magical that's historic but I remember in that moment they also played these songs randomly before they call the teams out and there was this one French song I guess that they were playing in that moment and you kind of like took a pause your senses were like woken up I guess because you were like this is one of my favorite songs and I had never heard the song before it was I don't even know what it was like this is one of my favorite songs and you know normally we're kind

of locked in we're talking game plan before we're about to go on the core and here we are like looking at the twinkling lights of the Eiffel Tower we're like holding each other's hands listening to the song yeah like listening to this song and it was just so different than how we would ever operate right before a game it was just so natural and so like emotional And everything changed, I think, after that moment for us, for the team. So you win the lucky loser match, you survive in advance. So there's probably more relief than joy in that with everybody there. And you get into the round of 16 in the medal tournament.

And your reward for that is playing the number two-ranked team in the world, the Americans Cloth and Nuss, who heading into the games probably were the most consistent team on the world tour. and so you approach that game and Brandy you know just watching from the stand you could see that you wanted to physically dominate the game and take over so tell us about your mindset and approaching that game and maybe what you witnessed the adjustments that you made certainly on the other side of the net it seemed like you had a strategy on who to serve and what to do but just take us through the emotions of that game because when that game but then that match you turned a corner and you were gone.

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That's Lisa, L-E-E-E-S-A.com. The promo code is Finding Mastery for 25% off and then plus an extra $50 on us because quality sleep is just too important to leave the chance. I think when we first found out who we were playing, I have so much respect for that team and they were playing well. But there was absolutely no way I was losing that game. Like, there's no way. We already knew we saw each other. We kind of had a laugh because we're like,

of course this would happen. We absolutely deserve that. And we were completely prepared. So knowing that we were locked in and that, like, I don't know. what you would have to do to take it away from me, but it was not going to happen. So it was exciting to go in with that energy and to just... What does that sound like in your head?

Probably pretty vulgar. Yeah, yeah. It's aggressive. No effing way, da-da-da-da, like that's right, like... Yeah, there's just, no, it's like I know myself too much. I know what I'm about. I know what I can do. Like, nobody has something on.

Like, I can't even imagine that. Someone coming in my way. It was just like so not even in the realm of, reality. For the listener, I know who I am and I know what I'm about. That's the biggest rock to get in the container. Because once you really know who you are, nobody, no situation, no circumstance can ever take it away. And you've got that big rock in the container. You know who you are. You've done that work. And it feels like it's almost a throwaway comment. But it is, it is the comment. Yeah. And then you know what you're capable of. Right. So, but it's the first big

rock that I listen when I hear you say that I go yep yeah yep and that is there's no easy path to know who you are that's just time under tension you know an honest reflection and and rad that's right yeah okay sorry for the interruption yeah so it's just time to use that it was a circle back it's just time to use that energy years and years of how I work plus I didn't have to worry about like Melnot being or my team like I have a team I don't even have to worry about either. So it's like I have the freedom to just be everything that I know that I am and have so much like come into that and just have this beautiful photo and challenges is what I crave. It's what I've known my whole life to then something that I invite into my life

because of how much goodness has come out of it. The heading into that game, I was not my most confident self at beginning of the Olympic Games. It was just not going the way that I had foresaw that I had planned that we'd prepared for. And so I was kind of going through this emotional turmoil and like dealing with some of the doubt and some of the insecurities that I had battled for like a good chunk of my career, but like it was on display at the Olympics. And it would have been really easy for me to pack it in, to be like, yeah, it's just not my week, you know? Like it's, I, like, I just can't show up the way that I want to show up. And it would have been so easy for me to just back down and like give in. And if we look at the game, we actually,

went down in that game pretty early. I think it was like 13-8 was a technical. 14-9. 14-9. 14-9. Yeah. 14-9. Game one. Game one. And like it could have been so easy for us to just accept that, accept the defeat. Like coming back from that after, you know, a start to an Olympic games, a start to a tournament that we were not feeling our best and we were not playing our best. And I think very quickly we started to realize, okay, we're not, I'm not playing my best right now. How are we going to troubleshoot this? Like, what are the things we're going to reach for? that are going to help us get over this. And it wasn't like the tangible skills.

It was the intangible skills. It was like the relationship. It was the vulnerabilities. It was the honesty. It was the heart and the grit that we're going to get points. They're going to be scrappy points. They're not going to be beautiful volleyball points, but we're going to get this win somehow.

And we're going to get these points. We're not going to give up. And I think you really saw that in that game. But before the game started, we were in the change room. It was just us, too. we were talking. And for me heading into that game, I anticipated playing this team at some point during the Olympic Games, but like later, semifinals, finals, not the first round of playoffs. And so in the change room, like, it was, it was heavy. It was heavy emotions. I think you broke the silence

and you were like, okay, how are you doing? Like, really, how are you doing? And I was like, I'm nervous. I am nervous. And I think you opened up that space for me to be honest, because we were done. We were done like, okay, things aren't going well. Like, we're accepting that. And you were like, I have played out every possible outcome of this game. We win in two, we win in three, we lose in two, we lose in three, like all the different possible outcomes. I have visualized how this could go and there's only one outcome that wins for me. And I remember you said that. And I was like, I knew which one it was. But it still took a minute for me to like get on board with that right away. Because we have played that team like 11 times in our history. And

it was like maybe they it was like 50-50 maybe they were up 60 40 or something like we would go back and forth with the win so it was really like I think the last time we played them they won right so it was like we weren't going in with like the numbers on our side but if anything that the olympics taught me with that the numbers don't matter no like no amount of history of no amount of rankings no amount of seedings no amount of side out percentages or whatever your numbers are it didn't matter those were probably the lowest numbers of my entire career and we still managed to walk away with some hardware. And so I think going into that really,

I was going in with a little bit more reservations than I probably should have. But I think what that game taught me and the work that we did together, the work that we did together, our debriefs and our pre-game preparations taught me and instilled more of that belief that trust in the work that we had done

for the last two years, that showed in that game. I think you could see it pretty clearly. There's another option that we would train for and hoped for, which was, listen, we arrive at the game and we're just completely smooth. And I have confidence. We train for confidence. So I'm listening like, yeah, I didn't have confidence. I doubt.

And so that's real too. And how to work through the prickly, sticky, kind of hard parts of the experience is what makes people champions in their life, whether it's volleyball or business. or relationships, how do you work through the sticky parts, the parts that are not easy to work through? So you relied on your partner to say, look, I got it, I got you, like, loosen up or whatever it might be. But you had to bring that forward. And that's where I think a lot of people struggle is they don't bring it forward.

So they're playing this other game. No, I'm good. But inside, it feels like a whole different universe. So that's the part that I'm like, very cool. The not bringing a forward part is like a huge, not just for yourself and your own experience, but I think as a teammate, like vice versa, but just because we were talking about it, if you're going through what you were going through at the beginning of the tournament and you weren't being honest about being nervous, about feeling all of these emotions,

it would have been extremely hard for me to feel confident and be able to just focus on my game and do my thing. Because you can't connect. There's a huge disconnect. and whether it's like I see through it or I don't or whatever, it's just like another layer of distraction. And I think I had so much admiration and I was truly inspired by you and why I never felt any doubt about our journey because you were being so honest about it. If you weren't even being honest about it, then I'm like, we can't do anything with this.

It doesn't matter if we're last place. It's like we literally can't move on because we're not even in reality. right now. And so it was so encouraging to know how difficult that is, how much courage it takes to go through that, because I obviously went through that going into the semifinals and having my own moments of doubt. And that's a shit feeling. And if I'm like, well, she's not hiding it. I'm not hiding it. That's not our culture. We're not doing that. And we're winners. Winners will be honest and we'll do the hard thing. So that shows, again, that dis-collaboration. You brought that. You brought something. We brought the path. We brought the environment.

I felt every time conversations goes, I felt that we were so prepared. We knew it, everything that was coming to us. We knew it. We had the skills. We had the tool belt. And there was both of you that decided to use the right tool. When you heard Mel say that she rose to the occasion. So my philosophy is, as people fall to their level of training. I think both of you see it differently, which is that we rise to the occasion. And I'm not sure how you see it, but I'm wondering, I do want to hear how, I know how you see it.

Branden, I'm curious how you see it. But before we go there, Coach, do people in your mind rise to an occasion or fall to their level of training? Interesting. The training. That is impossible for a human being match the level of pressure and importance of the Olympic Games. You can try it. I'm going to do it. I'm going to do that. I'm going to get more caffeine. I'm going to eat more. I'm going to train more.

That is absolutely impossible. Three Olympic games right now and then all three of them were totally different. Completely different. Completely different. So raised to that level, one, you're spending too much energy. You're not focused on what matters. It's not going to work. But if you fall to your training, how you do things, how you do things, how you're spending. you communicate, what's the planning look like, it's not that you're safe. You're already ahead of everyone because they're trying to be focused in something that doesn't exist. Totally. You know what?

I actually do really agree with that, except for I think kind of what you mentioned, there's no way to mimic the experience of an Olympic Games or like the level of that pressure in training no matter how hard you try. And so while I do believe, yes, 90% of what you train will show up. And that's kind of like the basis. That's how you build trust in the process. And like, you trust your body of work, 100%, but there are those moments that are untrained that you've never experienced before, like at an Olympic Games, and you really see what side

of you is going to show up. And you see sides of you that you haven't seen before because you weren't able to train them in the moments where you were training them. So I think that's what I saw in Brandy, especially when I said those moments where she rose to the occasion. These were moments we had never found ourselves in before. And these were moments that we were experiencing, like, this level of, like, grand, of just pressure of the holistic emotional human experience that I think really pushed us to limit

at the Olympic Games that we hadn't felt. And so I think there were moments where you just had to see who was going to show up and who was going to, quote unquote, rise to the occasion, which is why I said it like that. Yeah. And I think it's perfect. What's cool is like each person on the team had a different philosophy going to the games. Is it going to be the biggest game ever or am I going to treat it like just another game? And we talked about this.

And it's, the naive approach is we're all going to have the same philosophical approach. Oh, yeah. That's naive. What's complicated is to know yours and embrace yours. And then when you wanted to change yours, you'd be open to that too, right? Which was a bit of a risk. And that's way more complicated. And the full team had a conversation like, wait, you guys are, you two, you two athletes are seeing the games entirely differently.

Yeah. And how are we going to manage that as a team? Oh, that's my question for you. That's what we're doing now. They have opposite answers. Yeah, right. Yeah. Finding Master is brought to you by Mack Weldon.

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finding mastery. Again, go to Nutrafol.com, N-U-T-R-A-F-O-L, Nutrafall.com, and use the code finding mastery for $10 off and free shipping. Okay, there's like naveness thinking we're all going to be the same. And there's the level of, okay, we're different. But then there's a level of like, you didn't even get that. What do you mean? I feel like it switched between us. That's right. And so then it was like managing that. Yeah. Yeah. What about that third level? I'm like, I'm still. I'm still. I'm trying to figure that out. We tested you.

But be concrete to the listeners. Like, what are you actually talking about? Okay. Well, I definitely agree. And I'm glad that we talked about how we were going to approach the games. I think that was a very pivotal conversation. And to not have the naiveness, the thinking we're all here doing the same thing, especially with our different personalities.

I think it reflected on you wanted more of a, like, every day I show up. like, this is just a regular day for me. This is what I do. Nothing changes. Nothing crazy here. Like, just playing volleyball, sunset, weight. Exactly. And I'm like, I want this to be like a magic.

This is the biggest stage. Like, are you the one? Like, the biggest moment, huge emotions, fireworks every day. Like, but I think we realized halfway through the games that things were kind of switched where you were going through such beautiful like ups and downs and like. became very big moments. And I, and that was the first time I cried at the Olympics, realized that I felt completely numb to the entire experience.

And I was crying because I wanted so badly to feel big emotions. I wanted this to feel bigger than I could imagine. And I wanted to feel like unprepared almost because I was like, I want to see something new happen. I want to go into the unknown. And everything felt regular, degular. So I was like, oh, getting so mad. because I'm like, are you kidding me?

I'm in turmoil. You're in turmoil. I'm all over the place and baby's chilling. Yeah. So the anecdote here is that the higher skill for all of us is to accept the moment as it is and navigate according to whatever it is. Yeah, 100%. Yeah. I think that's the talk you had with both of us.

Yeah, I knew myself that if I had more people being like, oh, this is such a big, game, oh, this is such a big moment for you, it would overflow. And I would be overwhelmed with that. So I, and I told my team, I was like, we'll just keep it chill. Meanwhile, Brandy was like, I need more. So I don't know how you guys navigated that. But I remember after our pool play where I was like, gosh, I don't think this is serving me because I don't feel like I'm actually allowing myself to experience the magic of this opportunity we have and experience the Olympic games and everything that it means. And it is big. And I think I was suppressing myself and like not allowing myself to live in the moment because of my philosophy. And so I think it was holding me

back from like who I could be on the core and who I wanted to be and like what I could offer to my team and just like to myself. And so I think after that I started to change my philosophy a little bit and be like, no, I'm just going to accept it. The nerves, the butterflies, everything, whatever I feel, I'm just going to let it in because like I think having the wall against it was it was just not going to work. I love that. Mike, I have to ask this of both of you. She's saying that in the height of the Olympics, she was questioning her philosophy and so much of the work that you do with corporate executives and athletes and students at USC is how to build and articulate a philosophy, a competitive philosophy, a personal philosophy. So if that's your anchor, and those evolve over time as we become different people in our lives, you don't expect them to evolve and change at the Olympics with everything on the line. And so how do you coach and advise an athlete who's questioning her philosophy under the most pressure ever?

You can imagine, like, what would you do, you know, if you were in my shoes there? And it's, I don't have a script for it, but it is feeling and talking it through. And, you know, it's two adults like, okay, addressing, here's the Lego set. Like, you want to take it apart? you think you can put it back together? Like, is it just a couple pieces we're changing? And it was it was just a conversation with her about what does she want to do. And I was going to back her. Right. And I think that's probably the more important piece is that. So I come from, I'm trained classically as a psychologist with a Carl Rogers approach. And he's a humanistic psychology. And so

Rozierian approach is to have an unconditional positive regard for the person. person. And I'll say those words again, an unconditional positive regard for the person. So my fundamental belief is that everything she needs is already inside of her. And this is her life. She's the one walking across the tape to get into the sand. And I'm going to examine and push and pull and and hold up a mirror. But my fundamental approach is that what you need was already inside you and so what you need what you were saying is this isn't working is it is it okay what do you think can i shift this yeah like this is your life and so we talked about like well what are the pros what are the cons it didn't sound like that but like let's examine it

and then be a great teammate backer yeah you know that's kind of what it is but it's holding up a a mirror because I fundamentally believe that each one of us, everything we need is already inside of us. That's the aperture idea. So when the aperture widens, your honest, true self emerges with all of the skills that you have built over time. Technical, from Marcio, physical, from strength and conditioning, psychological, from a life experience, plus the specific work we did. and then that emerges to meet the demands of the moment eloquently and gracefully. And when you can do that, I don't know. To me, that's a living master.

Beautifully said. But you don't have time for the Freudian approach to let her discover these herself. That was a shorthand conversation. I don't know how long it was, like 20 minutes or something. Yeah. But it's resting on two years of like real work. And so like special operators, Marcy and I can be like look at each other and be like, Like, it's just a look.

And when you have that look, there's a shorthand, like, oh, yeah, I know where it's coming from. So, I think interesting, and then bring to the listeners too, you guys have no idea how much debrief Mike and I, Mike Fiat and I had every single time that we had a practice or every single time that we had a game or interactions or breakfast, kind of like, again, figuring out what that Lego would be if I need to change here, changing there. And then for a coaching staff, having like that bounce wall was fantastic. Like coming out of practice, like, what happened today? Really? One is here? One is here?

Like, now he's here? Like, Mike, what do I do? Do I say something to this? And then like, we were kind of going back and forth and trying to find, you know, that unconditional support, but not getting off. the reality, right? So the reality is this, like, we need to find that balance. And then again, I can say that you guys bought in all the time. And then when you felt challenge, like, you guys, like, this is a challenge. Okay, got it. I'm glad you brought that up because it's support

then challenge. Yeah. And that was a thing that we all agreed on. Support then. Unconditional, positive regard is the support. I got you. Whatever you're going to, like, we're going to, we said it. You said it day one, which was like, look, after the games, we're going to be friends. And there was radical challenge. It happened in our sessions. And it happened when you were on the beach. And then during the games, like, there was one practice. I was like, damn, he's really giving it to him.

Oh, yeah. And you know, everyone knows when it's how. And he's like grunted. Oh, right? Yeah. And so like that level of challenge, iron sharpens iron. You can say a lot of different things. And I don't know how.

I can't remember. Were you guys like, damn? Or was it like, okay, good, we needed that. Because you were not performing in practice the way that it should be scripted. And I loved every part of it, every part of it, because you did not back down. What we calibrated was that, like, you see them as badasses and, like, wake that dragon up. It was great. So your take?

The way I remember that, I remember distinctly this debrief more than anything, because you made a point to bring it up and said, what did you think of Marcio's energy? And I remember in the debrief Marcio, you kind of came at us a little bit and you were kind of like upset with us a little bit in like our kind of our attitudes of how we were experiencing that practice. And I remember in the moment that it was happening, I was frustrated like in the actual practice. And then in a debrief, when you asked how it was going or how I felt it after, I loved it. The athletes give you the signs what they need. It might not what you want to do as a coach. It might be not what the player wants, but they give you the sign. So we'll go to the gold medal match. You're up against

the number one team in the world for the past two years, Anna Patricia and Duda. And let's talk about the mental preparation and the match itself, which again, each one of these matches is a story in itself, the first set, you're in control most of the way. And towards the end, in the late teens, they make a run and they steal the first set. So take us through that match and the emotions you were feeling. And then we'll get to that one point

where they had to play the Beatles to calm the whole crowd down. But let's go through the match itself. They didn't have to calm the crowd. They didn't calm one out. We're going to get to the real story. We've heard the public explanations. But take us through the mental preparation of coming on the court, the three sets, and then we'll talk about finishing second.

But I don't want to diminish. I don't ever want to diminish what you accomplish because it was truly astounding. The story, we've spent time talking about it, but the arc of the story is what raises the hair on our arms. That's why we watch sports. So just give us the insider perspective of that match. I felt aligned. I mean, that's where we'd seen ourselves so many times. And I have leaned on my mental fortitude and emotional belief and manifesting the world that I live in.

And I've never really subscribed to other people's opinions or realities. So this was just so great to see it all align what's actually happening in real time and what I've believed. I just remembered the energy between Melissa and I is mostly just like, it's time just to take it all. It's just time to get it done. We've gone through so much. We have so many tools. And we were prepared to do that. I remember waking up the morning of the gold medal match.

And it felt distinctly different than every other morning. Every other morning felt heavy. every the morning felt like I woke up with butterflies immediately in my stomach. The morning of the gold medal match felt a little bit different. And I'm happy you said this because you mentioned freedom and free. And that's kind of like my ideal competitive mindset. That's like my space where I feel my most self on the court when I'm just free and like kind of feel very innate and it's like a free flow.

And I kind of had that energy that morning. And I remember we always did our team activation before. And we would sit down at the end and we'd go through. Mike would guide us through like a visualization and a meditation. And we'd kind of go around with our team and talk about, you know, how we're feeling like if there's anything we wanted to bring up. And I remember I kind of brought it up where I was worried about how I was feeling kind of like maybe a little bit more calm or like a little bit more free.

And I was worried that it would breed like complacency. And not because we were in the gold medal match, which is one of the biggest games I've ever played in my career. but that we had reached so many milestones along the way to get there. And also, if I looked back a week prior to where we were when we were barely making it out a pool play, and I had so many doubts in my head about what I was able to accomplish and who I was showing up as,

to know that I could come from that place and make it all the way to the gold medal match operating that way, it gave me actually like a sense of peace that we overcame so many obstacles and here we are. And so I said it to the team that I, and I was scared to say it because I didn't want them to think that I was like giving up because we already got a medal. And it was like, wow, like we don't need to try any harder because we're here and that we're just going to like play super free or whatever. Like we already have a medal. Meaning if you win, you win gold.

If you lose, you take silver. Right. So there was already a medal guarantee. Right. Right. Exactly. And so, yeah, I would kind of even myself kind of contemplating like what that feeling meant when I woke up. like okay you know we're here i can be free that was different than how i felt every other game

before the olympics and i was like i don't know how to i don't know how to comprehend this feeling too good what do i do i feel great on final stage yes and and it's so funny i think you said oh god there's no other option but winning i remember that and it stuck with me and it hit me hard as well because that was also just like the energy i knew where she was at where her mindset was at and and like what we really believed we could accomplish. And then I remember your response to that was like, whatever happened, nothing changes about how I feel about this team,

about you, about what you're capable of, regardless of the outcome of this game. And I remember that was also very comforting. So I had like all these different perspectives coming in that morning of the game. And I was like, wow, this is like a whole experience before 10 a.m. And now we have to go play the biggest game of our life

at 10 p.m. At 10 p.m. Yeah. To sit with all these feelings. all day. And then honestly, the game is a blur for me still. I, there are moments I remember. There are moments that I still don't like thinking about. There are moments where I am proud of myself for. I haven't watched the game. It's one of the only games in my entire career that I've never rewatched. And I probably will watch it at some point, but I haven't yet. And then maybe

it'll bring some clarity or some sort of closure to that moment. But I still haven't watched it. And so the game itself, I don't really remember a lot of. I remember we had a big lead in the first set. I remember we won by a lot in the second set and then the third set's a blur but it's a blur for me too yeah I remember

I mean going into the game I was not feeling my thousand and ten percent but I was telling myself I was so we're trying but I remember the first set being up and like feeling like this is the sink like that we play at

and this is what's going to take us to this gold medal. No sense of like, oh, we're good. But it was like the signs are there. I'm always looking for signs always. And so then I remember the ending of the second set, the first set. And I still have this very heavy feeling that like I was the reason why we lost that first set. I still can you tell you exactly why. But I think I have, I know, and it's haunts me. I have two distinct points that was the first time I felt my body like, disassociated from my mind just because I was struggling with my back so much and then I really felt it in like two points like where I couldn't execute what I knew I

could what I envisioned like right before you do here you see it all these things like everything's aligned for the whole Olympic Games two weeks this point I don't know what happened like back gave up everything felt weird and I was like what was that what the fuck was that and so then I was like it's fine fine shake it off it's fine like you'll get back into it do everything you need to do get into that mindset again and then it showed up again. And for some reason, I've decided that's why we lost the first set, which is so unreasonable. But it is, yes. I'm taking ownership. Nobody said that. When you hear that, Mel,

what do you hear? I've never, it's been three months since the Olympics. And it never once crossed my mind that that was an option. Because for three months, I have been feeling the weight of that. Like I, and I almost started just crying right now because I, that's been weighing on me so heavy for a long time. When you said that, it almost just like, I feel lighter. I think we're both, even though we experienced, we had different roles in that game, we both experienced it in a similar way, but different. We both felt the burden of what that first set meant to us, which is crazy. And thank you for sharing that. because I feel like I can breathe.

Yeah, no, we've never talked about it. I guess I've never told literally anyone. Exclusive on the podcast. But I definitely feel like you should know that. And it was hard for me to, just in my own game, in my own world, to have that happen because it doesn't happen very frequently. And then to then sit back the time out and lose that.

And that set and just be like, what? And then the way you showed up the second set, I was like front row seats to like this rodeo because it was crazy. It's pretty special. It was so special to see you just play honestly the best volleyball you've played like in the year, in the season. Who knows? You played great every freaking game. But that game was extra special, especially from what you've come from.

And I was more than happy to just like watch this happen and literally could care less what happened after because of how important. And I think it was for me as your teammate to see you go from where you started to where you were, like the amount of courage and just like, that's crazy shit. I think people need to know that story. And so it was so great to be like right there with you watching that. And so that helped me to get out of myself with everything I was going through. So that's why the third said such a blur because I was like, I feel like we were back to square one at that point. I feel like we won.

I literally tell people gold sometimes. I was like, I literally refuse. Good. It was a respectable game. I will allow that. Best game at the Olympics. Yeah. In all the sports.

But the two sets I remember for two different reasons. And I'm glad you know that you were badass that set because I know you've said it yourself and you should be saying that screaming out to rooftops. But I commend you for that journey. It was amazing to see. Thank you for sharing that. Well, both of you can sleep because I thought that was the worst coach in the world.

So you guys can fire the coach because you guys were up up 15 to 8 and we could not score a point all the way to the 21. And then I blame myself on that one. If you would score like one or two after the 15, it would be okay. So you guys are good. Just, you know, hang in tight. It's too funny. But it was a fierce game. I obviously am there to win.

And I wanted to feel every emotion of it. We were in a tough spot at that point. I remember just feeling like, oh, I can't get anything together. And then I get this ace. And I'm like, yeah, no, I'm back. And so if that radiates to everyone and she wants to take it personally, then it did. But that's why I'm totally, she's totally justified in her reaction for the next point when she stared through the net after an error, which is why I was especially, because usually

I don't pay attention to the other side, but like it was like an error. And then she cheered through the net. And so I was like, wait a second. First of all, you didn't do nothing. And then- Yeah, you made them stay. This is also like a really long time to be cheering. You're staring down.

I think she was like staring you down or something. Don't do that. I'm like, mama bear. I got three younger siblings. I'm like, who are you talking to right now? That's my partner. And so when we got into it, I get, if she thought I was cheering through the net,

she's allowed to react with that. If I think she's cheering through that, I'm allowed to react like that. And I do wish that it didn't get calmed down. I loved the moment for the moment for the moment, it's fun, and we can manage all the emotions no matter what happens. But I would have been very curious to see it continue that way, because I have total faith in our team being able to control that.

Like, I think I would have gotten angrier and I play well when I'm angry. Melissa, you're super, like, locked in. You're already killing it. So I don't think you would have been phased by anything. She would have been super locked in, I think. Anna Patricia also loves that energy. So it would have been a great battle. But Duda, I'm like, even if it's 1% less, like, I'll take that.

Like, it's the gold medal game. That's all you'll get. So it's like, I don't know, with the misserv right after. I was like, there's room. There's a little, like, breathing room here. Like, let's jump on it. So there was a lot of things going on for sure. I did not think that that moment would go as viral as it did.

That was insanity. Wasn't a great moment? It was hilarious. It was really. So just to be clear that there was a jarring between the net between you guys. And it was intense, which is not the volleyball spirit. It's almost every other sport, but not volleyball. And I leaned over to Marcio.

I don't know if you remember this. And I said, oh, she just woke up the dragon. And I was like, this is where it's going to turn. I think we're down by two or something like that, right? And I was like, it's going to, or maybe three. I was like, it's happening. And the game is only 15. Yeah.

And I was really excited. And then there was this beautiful moment for the crowd. You already said it where it was a Beatles song. Which one was it? I forgot. Was it imagine? they put imagine over the up yeah yeah how's it go go ahead you're the singer you know imagine there's no hunger imagine all the people living life and peace yeah and everyone starts cheering

everybody was like singing it and it was a true olympic magical moment and i was like dang it yeah exactly but i knew the dragon wasn't going away but there was a there was a moment to capture that you created out of like that agitated state that you're in And it's cool, you know, it was cool, yeah. I thought it was fantastic. And I, and as a coach, again, not big fans of officials and referees. I think they overreacted. They're like, oh, and then the referee came in between them.

And then, you know, I think conversations, you know, through the net already happened before. But I blame the officials what happened. Like, I think everything was totally fine. and then escalating, pushing you back and forth. And I was like, wait, let get the dragon go. The dragon was calm. Mike was like, this is it. This is it.

You and my family like, let's go. I think it might get missed what Mel did. Oh, tried to de-escalate. No, Mel, you came over. It was so reflective, intuitive, and you grabbed her hand during the entire thing. So you became in that moment the grounding force on the court. this one over here the dragon was coming out snorting and breathing all the fire you can imagine they i don't know them but they were swept into your moment both of them were john back and forth

and you started the whole thing so you're you're you're in control and then you in a different way grounded the whole thing you became the alpha holding her hand calming her down or doing whatever you're doing and i was like both our side of the net is dominant right now in two completely different ways. And I don't think that, like, I hope the listener can go back and just watch your hands in what you did under the net. It was one of the most alpha moves I've seen in a long time. It was really cool. That's so interesting. You say alpha. Oh, yeah. That was the alpha moment. You had your alpha in a different way. But they were not in an alpha state. That's what it felt like exactly. It felt like we had control of the moment where Brandy was like imposing and like making a lot

of sense in her like imposition. And then I feel like I also was like, coming in in my own kind of softer way, but also letting them know, like, you're not going to step on. Oh, it was, yeah. You weren't even trying to be like, Brandy, no. You were like, yep. And listen. Yeah, right.

Yeah, it was great. Watch that back. And it'd be fun to just even have a conversation afterwards about what was happening for you. But it was cool. It was you guys were definitely in an alpha competitive state. And so I've listened to Mike say the toughest finishes at the Olympics are fourth and second. and knowing how competitive you are and you were so close. Can you just talk about the sweet and the bitter as opposed to the bitter and the sweet?

Because it's just for those who watched and went on the ride, it was so sweet. But watching you come out, you know, I think they only gave you like 20 or 30 minutes from the end of the match to the podium. And then watching your faces on the podium, just take us through that emotion of what it is like to climb that mountain to be so close. I honestly think I'm still processing the emotions. I don't even know when that will fully be clear for me. But again, so much of it is a blur. Like you said, everything happened so quickly. Like the ball dropped.

I was expecting this massive celebration from the other side. I don't even remember how we embraced. I don't even remember a lot on it. I remember sitting where I was standing. I wasn't even sitting at our benches. And then we're getting told all these different instructions. We have to go do this media. we have to go change, and then we have to come back for the, and it was just, there was, like, no room to, like, settle or to, like, comprehend what was going on.

I remember being, like, pulled by all these different people through this tunnel, and then we have to change, and then we're back out there, and then you're on an Olympic podium. And so that span of time, there were, there were so many things. It was, like, total disappointment and total, like, sadness. a little bit of anger, probably lingering from a moment, and then also like, pride. And it's hard to describe how you can be all of those things at once. And there's no real word to describe how that feels. And then standing on the podium, again, like very bittersweet, but it was an Olympic podium

that we said we were gonna be on two years before, and we were on it throughout like incredible highs and lows, just in those two weeks alone, let alone the two years that we went through with incredible highs and lows. But yeah, we weren't hearing our national anthem, but we could hear and see our team and our family and friends still there and, like, watching us accomplish a dream of ours. It wasn't the ultimate dream, but accomplish something to be so proud of making history for Canada in like three, four different ways. And doing it together, I think that's what I can reflect on now and and have it be like fill me up you know like really fill me up um I think

it took me a while to get there I think it is hard especially when you really believe you can win and that we really could have like we definitely there's no doubt in my mind still so that I think that's the hard if it was a blowout okay maybe we were a little far from it but because we were there we were we played like lights out I had one of my better games of that Olympic tournament And we still lost. So that was hard for me to also take on the chin and look at myself in the mirror being like, I played really well and it still wasn't good enough. Like there are all these kind of emotions that I settle with.

But the one thing that Marcio said in our debrief, I think a month after the Olympic Games, that kind of helped me bring things into perspective was, you know, he's been to so many Olympics and he's worked with so many different teams and has gotten a medal, an Olympic medal with each of his teams that he's been to an Olympics with. what he said was, like, I wouldn't trade the silver medal for a gold if it meant doing it with different people, doing it with a different group. And to me, he was like, we are, we are the gold medal. Like this team, this is the gold. And so I think that for me allowed me to kind of like find peace in our journey and in that moment and like look at my silver medal and be able to be like

so proud of this thing because of who I did it with. And so, yeah, there's still like, there's still some, some angst about the result, even though I know we talk about we're more than just the result. But I wouldn't change it again if it meant doing it with different people. Yeah, very cool. I agree that the suite is just how much of a human journey it was and how it spoke to so many people beyond them remembering if it was gold or silver. That's incredible. And we set out to create a legacy for our country. We did have a host. historical result. And I was extremely proud of just being able to make it that far. Being authentically and holistically myself, hair, nails, attitude, friends, no friends, what I'm doing.

Like, I did it the way I said I wanted to do it. And that was a goal I had set out for myself before partnering up with Melissa. So to still have the results also come through and validate that you can be exactly uniquely yourself was amazing. The not so sweet was. pretty staggering for me. It's still something that haunts me here and there. I find myself still compartmentalizing to deal with that because I've lived my life just relying on my able to, I guess you say frame or create a vision for myself and where I'm going and then follow through with that, to have integrity, to have, like, the courage to do it and to take the risks, and then to have it follow through, like, things usually align at some point, and I can see that

and feel that and feel that. And then it's like someone taking this way you see life and the way you see yourself and your religion and your mantra and just ripping it from you, because we didn't win as much as that's what I said, and that's what I thought, and that's what I worked to. And it was like gut-wrenching to now be brought to my knees. Like, maybe you don't have that skill. Maybe you aren't that. Maybe.

And it's like this questioning of my entire philosophy on life was brought up. And that was hard to deal with. I think on the core, it was just rage, just only rage. And I remember going up to my family after. And I just could not smile, I could not look, I could not say anything. I was just like stone face, couldn't even wrap my head around, that this was actually over and that we actually didn't do it. And I remember my youngest brother grabbing my face, look at where you are right now.

Look at where you are. And I kept screaming, like, look at what you did. Look at where you are. So then I finally kind of like shook out of it and then like was able to kind of receive a lot of love and a lot of like passion and inspiration and be able to see all the pieces that came with it and just have so much deep gratitude for that that we could enjoy the podium moment because there was no other choice like were you going to be bitter up there like you got to enjoy that and it was the only time I had to do that um so I tried my best to um show face and it's a it's a lot

of the emotions. Also, just like, just the journey of representing Canada for me is also very interesting. And I just wanted it to just be so much better than a silver even. That sounds crazy to say, but this is what I wanted. And I'm like a little bit stubborn. I don't like when I don't get what I want. Like, I'm going to do what I'm going to do to get what I want. But it was okay. I mean, there were so many ups and downs for about a month. Usually good. And then I think after a month, I literally got depressed for about two weeks. That was really hard. I think I almost called you like three times.

And then that was hard. But luckily I have so much, so many great support systems and people that I could talk to and really just be like, let it go. And then like nowadays, I'm just like still finding the goodness in it and just believing in the larger purpose of why it happened the way it happened. I had asked to be shown what was going to happen and what truth were going to be told and what path I was going to lead after this. And I knew that that was going to be a life-changing moment for me.

I was ready to receive that. But I think a part of me still was ready to receive it the way I wanted it. And instead of just truly ready to receive. So I'm trying to lean back on that. And it's been really game-changing, though. And I have felt so much love and home and safety than I ever have before. and for it to come out through the game. So it's very special.

So it's thanks to you guys too. There was so much that helped me gain self-awareness, body awareness, and all of this practice and learning you guys have taught. And I think one of the biggest ones was labeling. Labeling has helped me so much just to be able to figure out my emotions. And then like if you are going to be feeling all sorts of stuff, just like understanding what was going on was very helpful. And I just find that what makes me.

makes it worth being so vulnerable is for all the emotions that you can't label and that you can't put into words. And that is just so deeply, deeply fulfilling and worth it for anyone that's debating vulnerability or not. Yeah. What's risky. Can I just put a fan's perspective on this, someone who got to go along on the ride? What a gift it was to watch you and your families and your boyfriend.

and, you know, their stake in investment and wanting it for you and how much they love you and made us all feel part of Brandy's Block Party and, you know, the Smiling Assassins team, it was something we'll never forget. And as Mike's taught our class and, you know, coaches we've talked to, these matches at that level, at the elite top of the world, they're so hard to win. And sometimes the game ends and you're just not in the lead. It has nothing to do with who you are, what you stand for, how you inspire us. In fact, the story of resilience and how you came back from near elimination is what we'll remember more than the color of your medal.

But as your friends and fans, we are just so enormously proud of you. It's been a privilege to do it, to know you, and to follow this team. It really is a joy to watch them play. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, guys. Next time on Finding Mastery, we're joined by Georgia Stettys, a model-turned-entrepreneur who went from quietly panicking over hair loss in his 20s

to building a billion-dollar company helping millions protect and regrow their hair without the side effects. So what actually stops hair loss and what doesn't? Join us to find out on Wednesday, September 24th at 9 a.m. Pacific, only on Finding Mastery. All right. Thank you so much for diving into another episode of Finding Mastery with us. Our team loves creating this podcast and sharing these conversations with you. We really appreciate you being part of this community. And if you're enjoying the show, the easiest no-cost way to support is to hit the subscribe or follow button wherever you're listening.

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