Finding Mastery with Dr. Michael Gervais - Write Your Own Story & Quarterback Your Life | Yogi Roth

Episode Date: November 30, 2022

This week’s conversation is with Yogi Roth – Yogi is a dear friend of mine, and I’m really excited to finally introduce him to the Finding Mastery community. At his core, Yogi is a storyteller with a unique focus on seeking and uncovering humanity in sports around the globe.His professional work has ranged from a college football analyst to an Emmy award-winning filmmaker, New York Times bestselling author, media personality, world-traveler, and accomplished coach.Yogi has lived a full life and I always appreciate the unique perspective and insights he brings to the table. In this conversation, we cover a lot – the changing landscape of college sports, parenting, youth development, what he’s learned from some of the world’s best athletes, and so much more._________________Subscribe to our Youtube Channel for more powerful conversations at the intersection of high performance, leadership, and meaning: https://www.youtube.com/c/FindingMasteryGet exclusive discounts and support our amazing sponsors! Go to: https://findingmastery.com/sponsors/Subscribe to the Finding Mastery newsletter for weekly high performance insights: https://www.findingmastery.com/newsletter Download Dr. Mike's Morning Mindset Routine! https://www.findingmastery.com/morningmindsetFollow us on Instagram, LinkedIn, and X.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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I want to go to Egypt. I want to see the seven wonders of the world. That was like my bucket list initially as a traveler. Cool. What do you end up seeing? You see yourself in a totally different light. Okay, welcome back or welcome to the Finding Mastery podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Michael Gervais. I trade in training a high performance psychologist, and I'm excited to, Dr. Michael Gervais, by trade and training a high-performance psychologist. And I'm excited to have a dear friend on the podcast today, Yogi Roth. Yogi

lives a full life. He is an adventurer of life. By trade, he's a college football analyst. He's been part of 30 documentaries. He's written four books. He's traveled to 34 countries because he loves relationships he loves people he is epic at relationships i am excited to formally introduce yogi roth to finding mastery yogi you don't know this you're the first guest in the finding mastery studio oh nice love that i. Isn't that fun? That is fun. I've done that before. Yeah. Jim Rome. I was the first in-studio guest ever in the history of his show.

You were. I've had good convos with him. I'm sure this is going to be a great one as well, man. Which is really cool because you, in so many ways, you and I first met, it was in 2008 or 2009 it was somewhere in that range and a mutual friend introduced us joan lynch who was i don't remember her title at espn do you remember what it was she was in charge of all original programming and so she said um we were working on a project and she said you've you've got to meet yogi roth i said okay cool and she's like no she assumed we knew each other and i was like no i don't know yogi and she said you've got to meet so she put us together and you were like early days adamant about mike get a microphone get a camera do something to capture the things that you're talking about

and i thought really do you remember this oh yeah i was like things that you're talking about and i thought really do you remember this oh yeah i was like really and you're like yeah it's um it's it's time that you do that so the whole reason that this podcast happened was from that little seed that you dropped in in 2000 2008 2009 like do something And then you and I were going to start a podcast together and that didn't happen. No. Yeah, that didn't happen. I don't know if you know how much I care for you and how much I appreciate you.

You also were responsible for introducing me to somebody that I'd say probably changed my life, you know? And that was the professional ranks as well so breakfasts forever are on me that was our deal for a long time well i i appreciate that and you're right i probably don't know exactly how you feel but i've always felt your gratitude towards everything you know flip it and my word of the year tradition that I had began about a decade ago is because of you and I in the ocean talking through that. And you, you know, the title of our podcast that never existed was the space between. Yeah. And I've always loved the space

between commitment and hesitation. And surfing is such a great illustration that you taught me 10, 12 years ago that now to the point of like, I think the first year we both chose a word of the year, it was like, yes. We're both going to say yes to everything. That's right. I'll meet you in a year. How hard did you go? Any energy left?

And then from that point on to have that purposeful thought every year. Now I do it with my wife. I do it with our oldest son. I do it with a bunch of friends. People, of course, do it all over the world now. You get the bracelet, my intent on it or whatever it may be. But it's become a thing. Mine have all strung together.

So even this year is the year of flow. And my whole mindset is move with intent, but go with the flow. So if I don't have that dialogue 12 years ago in the Pacific, who knows if I'm here with the focus and intention I have on life. Yeah. It's a simple little practice, isn't it? The year of, you know, and to, but to do the deep work, to really think about how am I going to be, and this word gets thrown around in a kind of a hippie, you know, I don't even know the right kind of psychobabble word like intention, but the intention is like, how am I going to show up in my life? And if I can be really deeply

thoughtful and aware and committed to something, it is, it is transformational, simple little practice like that. So that's cool. Yeah. Well, I love how you've taken that in my perspective of like two even deeper thought, which is like, what are your first principles? Right. How about it? Right. What are your uncompromising principles? What are you front loading? Like all things that I've stolen from you to add to not only my playbook, but also coaches I talk to, the athletes that I mentor, like, you know, you're doing it obviously every day as well. But it's fun because I think we've always been similarly on message, maybe different ways of getting that message out or different vernacular, but fundamentally, like how can we impact the planet through sport and play? Yeah. So when I was thinking about this conversation and I was just kind of taking time to think through how I understand you.

And this will be hopefully related, you know, in this conversation. But there's three main ways. It's relationships. And I think most people that know you would know this is that when you think of Yogi Roth, you think about his role that he takes in other people's lives, which is like in my mind, one of the highest compliments, right? Like I think about you as a son. I think about you as a lover with your wife and a father. And I think about you as a friend. And so I don't think about you as like a business owner or a widget maker or.

And I know that what's going to come out of my next, next out of my mouth is storyteller, which is the second thing. But I first think of you as a person of relationships and then storytelling. So going in on experiencing the world and then telling stories about it or pulling out stories from other people and celebrating and even investigating like what's your story and then helping people share their stories and then also think about you as a traveler so not a not somebody who like goes in as a tourist but somebody who really travels to understand culture and so I think about you in those three ways and in that order actually would you add any dimension to it

i think that i think what i hope i do well is that when i seek the stories out i lean into the humanity of the story even as a broadcaster i call game every weekend okay a couple million people tune in and they want to hear how we caught a pass, how he threw a touchdown, how he made a tackle, what was the scheme. I'll go there and thrive there. But my drop down, as you would say, like my double click would be like, and then let me tell you how he got here, right? He's transferred three times. He grew up in this type of environment.

He's coming off of an ACL. Like he's studying this. He's got two master's degrees. Like I think my job is to seek and uncover the humanity in sport around the globe, and in college football season, in college football. But those words, to me, they're really important. Every one of them, seek, uncover, humanity, sport, world.

They have tremendous depth to what I think is my, my purpose, at least today. I think it would be hard for people who know you, even from a bit of a distance to not know that about you. And so for me, that's one of the things that the extraordinaries do is that they're so clear and so consistent that they become a pebble in the pond because they become a big pebble in the pond because it, the consistency is, it's amazing. And those ripples just keep carrying in unintended ways. So I think most people would know that about you, which is again, another, one of the highest compliments I think for anybody, at least for me, it would be, which is like, no, that's what authenticity is. You show up and you show people exactly who you are and it's clear. So all that being said is, I think it's important to understand, um, a few things.

How many books have you written? Four. Okay. I knew three. Which one did I miss? So I did a win forever. i did from pa to la oh yeah and then i just did the two and so the two go ahead five star qb which you are in thank you very much thank you very much and then my first kids book uh finding free fun okay so four books let's let's double click on all those in a minute um How many documentaries? Over 20 as they were from field producer to director. But it was fun, man. Like I saw how to do it cheap. I've seen how to do it expensive. And everywhere in between has been a really cool element of how do I add to my tools as a storyteller? Because I don't want to walk in a room and be like, how do you like that

thing? I want to at least be able to talk to the lighting crew. I want to be able to talk to the audio team. I'm not an expert in any of those, but I can at least, because of the experience of the last 15 plus years, I know how it works. Finding Mastery is brought to you by LinkedIn Sales Solutions. In any high-performing environment that I've been part of, from elite teams to executive boardrooms, one thing holds true. Meaningful relationships are at the center

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So if you're trying to hit your daily protein goals with something seamless, I'd love for you to go check them out. Get a free variety pack, a $25 value and 10% off for life when you head to davidprotein.com slash finding mastery. That's David, D-A-V-I-D, protein, P-R-O-T-E-I-N. com slash finding mastery. Where did that come from? Like that curiosity to understand how things work. Was that, was that, that didn't just show up in the meeting up in Washington. Well, you know this Mike, cause you've been around walk-ons, chip on the shoulder athletes. Explain what a walk-on is. So a walk-on is an athlete in college who gets.

Our producer is a walk-on by the way. One of the greats. He's looking at us. What's up Alex? Totally. totally alex woodman called his games back in the day you did i am yeah oh yeah how about that so alex is now the producer of of finding mastery you know making this thing happen the whole studio building the studio out like what a cool little mix here yeah alex was a kicker at usc yeah baller that. But anyway. He tells us that all the time. Just Google him. But a walk-on is one where you either get invited

or you have to try out for the team, but you're not given a scholarship. So there's 85 scholarship players in major college football. There's another 30 players on the team that pay their own way. So to do that, it's not easy. At the time, you didn't eat with the main team. Your locker was away from the main team. I was given locker number 106, Mike.

Nobody wears jersey 106. Your locker usually associates with the number that you wear. My first day of Pitt. It's such a signal, isn't it? Oh, dude. My first day of Pitt, they were like, Roth, locker 106. He had a D-Lyman helmet on. It was size 14 shoe i'm size 11

but that moment i can remember sitting in the corner in this locker room saying okay i'm in a relentless pursuit of a competitive edge okay hold on pause there yeah because this is really important because there there are every day there's thousands of external events that take place that run through our filter. And our filter being our mind, our meaning-making machine, if you will. It's part of what the mind does. And I can create another story, right?

Which is that I'm handed the 107 or 106? 106. 106. Helmet doesn't fit. Shoes that don't fit. I'm at the end of the line. And then I can say to myself, maybe this wasn't for me or, oh my God, this is embarrassing. Or what the fuck? This is bullshit.

And you start blaming everybody else. And you did something that we would hope most people do. It's what I hope I will do. It's what I hope my son will do. It's what I hope that, you know, folks in my family and my life will do is, is to see it and square up with it. And you said. I'm in a relentless pursuit of a competitive edge. Like it was a throw down moment to use your language. I was switched on versus pissed off. That's right. Is there a difference between that? Totally. That's right. Now my athletic career, I don't think I had that mental discipline. Like I think I was often prove everybody wrong versus prove myself right. But regardless, when I played, it was master the receiver position, but all four of them. Then sit in the quarterback room to know how they think. So I was always about like, there will not be a reason you can say I shouldn't play.

I would go so far. I would sit with the coach. I'd say, okay, so let's say you're the coach. Say, hey, Coach Gervais, what will stop me from playing in your offense this year? And you would say, well, you need to get a little faster, and I need to see you beat the best one-on-ones. So all I did was work on my speed, and then I tracked my one-on-ones in training camp, and then I presented to the coach before the season and said, hey, I ran a 4.56 and I'm 90% success rate against our best corner. You project as a first round pick.

Tell me why I can't play. And why aren't I on scholarship? Eventually I would play and get on scholarship. You did? You got both? Yeah. I started as a sophomore. You didn't run a 4.56 though.

4.56. No, you didn't. You cheated that one. Maybe. You ran a 4.56? Yeah. Fastest I ever ran ran that's pretty good okay so where did that where did that competitive approach and that you know self advocacy where did where did the competitive piece come from yeah um i love how you so you know the stories that we tell ourselves i think are really

important i'm a huge fan of that and i'm a huge fan of diving into like what is your makeup so when i was vividly seven years old our oldest son's age now i remember when grayson was seven years old yeah i can remember sitting at a table like this, but on that side was my grandfather, grandmother. Instead of a cup of water here on video, I'd have a teal glass of ginger ale, and he would be telling me stories about how he survived the Holocaust. He would say, come feel my left shoulder. I was shot eight times here after I escaped being in the forest, digging my own grave. I'd hear the stories of my grandmother and how she came home from school in the sixth grade and her teacher said, you can't go home today. Your

family was just murdered, axed to death. And she went on the run. So as I heard those stories, the way I internalized those was, I hope this doesn't come across as arrogant, but it came across to me as like, this is my superpower. You don't even know what I can tap into because of what I'm connected to. My perseverance, my Angela Duckworth grit is on levels that you don't even understand. So I always knew there was more in the tank. So that's how you would speak to yourself quietly

when somebody says you're not going to get on the team or you're 106. You would say to yourself quietly when somebody says you you're not going to get on the team or you're 106 or what right you would say to yourself quietly you don't know yeah i still say it how do you connect to your ancestry and you just shared it it was early and you had the gift of two people that suffered greatly and figured out how to be strong through it and after it. And they shared and pass that on to you through story. Yeah. I think now like it's easy to Google anything that you can follow. Like I could go to the Holocaust museum and find their stories too, which is cool.

It can be great for my kids and their kids. But I do think for, for like your son, for instance, I learned this as a son when my dad was sick of like, we got to ask, you know, my dad was diagnosed with prostate cancer and I was like was like hold on let's tell the story this is me let's get the context of this right which is because this this will take us into really cool places so when i was in college

my dad was diagnosed with prostate cancer i didn't deal with it at all not good bad and different it just i didn't register. I went and started traveling. I'm gonna go see the globe. And years later, it hit me like a ton of bricks of, damn, like I didn't process this. Like, holy crap, like he's gonna die at some point, right? Not necessarily from prostate cancer,

like who knows what'll happen. I got a lot of questions. And it was a very clear crystal thought that came across me one night in my solo place in Venice Beach was, I do not want to go to a celebration of his life and learn more about him from other people. F this. And I booked a flight home the next day. I walked into, at the time, my sister's apartment in Brooklyn. And I said, Dad, let's go for a walk. And he said, sure. I think we'd go around Prospect Park.

And I gave him a ticket, a plane ticket. And I said, in two weeks, we leave. I'll meet you in Madrid. We're going to go walk the Camino de Santiago, which is commonly referred to as the most famous pilgrimage on planet Earth. Spiritual, religious. Yep, the Way of St. James. Simultaneously, I was like trying to sell my own travel show.

Content guy, right? So I connect with a production company, and they're like, cool idea. We will film it. Yeah, right. We'll send two people. Yeah. Sure, let's go. We drop in.

We fly into Madrid. We go to Portugal, and we begin this walk, this pilgrimage. Every day, about 20 miles. We walk. We capture it. It day, about 20 miles. We walk. We capture it. It hit me on like day two or three. I'm like, this isn't necessarily happening organically, me learning about him. I have to be purposeful.

So we would sit down for two to three hours a day and go through and film questions about me asking about a different decade of his life. I'm a linear thinker, linear storyteller for the most part part what was it like for you as a kid like you grew up you didn't have anything like how come you like hate white bread like that's all i have his image and he's like yeah we had no money we're buying food stamps like that was all the only type of bread we ate i vowed as a kid i'd never eat it again oh that makes sense why it was rye bread in our house it wasn't just like a jewish thing for instance. And we would just go. How'd you meet my mom on a blind date at 17? Okay, get in your 20s. Like, you got a master's degree, right? Like, why? How'd you do that? What's your philosophy?

Tell me why. Psychology? Why are you a family therapist? Why'd you go from family therapy to being a stockbroker? Well, I was making eight grand a year. We had no money and I had three kids. And I just got to learn about different stages of his life. And by the end of the trip, the time he was mid-60s, and I had come to relative peace to be like, okay. I asked him, if you die tomorrow, what do I need to know? He challenged me, how come you don't have a girlfriend? And I just believe that Mike, that dialogue and those walks. My dad had often said, man is made to move. We move through things.

I felt like we both navigated this uncharted territory and came out better for it. I think that was a catalytic moment that led me to my wife right now, Amy. Also for him, I think it was a beautiful moment where he got to share a story, you know, with his son in a, in a really intimate way. And then when I came home, the production company said, we don't think the content's good enough for a movie, but you can have it. And I said, sure. And a year later I invited him to the premiere and away we went and we made a movie. That was an awesome premiere. Lisa and I went obviously, um, as you know, but many, or people listening might not know we

were in tears like the whole time and it's an interesting challenge for me at least and you you are implement influential in this way as well for me which is to get the relationship with my dad right you know and um I pause because there's always more that I would like in that relationship. But you're like, OK, listen, go to work, go to work, go to work. Ask the questions, like get in there. And I didn't do it the way you did it. But my point was watching the movie was like, this is rad. Oh, my God, look at that.

Look how the story unfolds. But then there's this other private experience is like well now that i know this now that i'm watching somebody do this what am i doing and so there's a is a i think that um my experience is probably not like many that watch it and so life in a walk yeah and so folks that are listening i would definitely encourage you to to watch it where can we yeah you can get on apple itunes yeah you know on the internet wherever you're watching stuff it's pretty much pretty much there other than netflix they didn't pick us up they didn't no what what is the favorite what is your most favorite show i i it's hard to top that so keep that one out of

the category but of the other 30 documentaries you've done, what's the other ones that stand out for you? I've done a bunch of shorts. I did a doc the day of the inauguration when Trump was elected or was inaugurated. And I remember that day it was pouring rain in LA and with close friends, Taylor Kavanaugh, Matt Wilcox, they flew down to LA and I said, let's just go talk to people. Because I remember when that happened, the first guy I called was my dad.

And I had a, I don't want to say unique reaction to that, but I can remember being like, oh my God, this is, something's happening in America. My brother's gay. His call was at eight o'clock in New York City. He's celebrating. By 10 o'clock, he's seeing people come out of the walls. Homophobia got a green light

and i just had all these feelings so i called him and he goes you need to talk to people like right wrong and talk to people so that's what we did we spent the day in la going all over from venice to hollywood to paul's verdes we just talked to people like busk style you just kind of show up and say, what do you think, what do you think? Yeah, we asked two questions. So what do you think it means to be human? And what does it mean to be American?

And that was it. And it was just like, I'm not the judge and jury. I'm just a storyteller and kind of curious, how do you define humanity now? Because I felt like we then, and since then, and even in all over the world, it's an argumentative place. 2009, I logged into Twitter from the first time right before I hiked Machu Picchu and did it because I was like, this is a cool place to tell stories. It can be that now. It can also be a cool place to light

people up. And it's lost the ethos that I think it was built upon. And I think that sometimes we can think that the world is that. And it's not. There's a lot of beautiful people. You talk to them every week on your podcast. They're like, you run into me on the street. And there's some people that aren't beautiful too. And maybe I'm not all ilk, but we should have dialogue.

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And if you're ready to feel the difference for yourself, Felix Gray is offering all Finding Mastery listeners 20% off. Just head to FelixGray.com and use the code FindingMastery20 at checkout. Again, that's Felix Gray. You spell it F-E-L-I-X-G-R-A-Y.com and use the code findingmastery20 at felixgray.com for 20% off. There's two things I want to say. One is that not all people are trustworthy. Like, you know, between one and 10% of the population, you should watch yourself. You know, like there's people that are dangerous in the world. And depending on what numbers that you think about, but the dark triad, you know, that

unique cluster of narcissism, Machiavellianism, and sociopathology, you put those three together, it's like those are heavy duty, selfish, manipulating, cold people that you don't matter to them and they're in the world so this idea of like um blind trust is problematic it's a it's not a safe thing to to do although blind mistrust is problematic as well yeah there's attention there's attention to sort out for all of us well i think like you and i have talked about play therapy a lot. I love that idea that's now seemingly vogue. I can remember being in fifth grade and Tara Steele dumped me and I just played basketball for five hours, right?

Not realizing what it was at the time, but it was processing my emotions. I think I still love to shoot hoop or love to get in the water, but I think a big part of processing life for me, my play therapy is writing or storytelling because it just allows me to navigate the dark waters, the crazy triad, whatever it may be. Is that why you wrote this? Finding Free Run?

Yeah. The kid's book? Yeah. A big part of why Zane and I collaborated on Finding Free Fun, Mike, was Zane's our seven-year-old, was that I saw in the pandemic we were all sheltering in

place and i was like we had a two-bedroom apartment and i was like this isn't working we've got to find a way to see the globe my dad inspired me as a child like around this phrase of free fun like it's everywhere like you don't have to spend 20 bucks to get into the playground or get into disney or the 200 bucks or whatever it may be. Like you can find it anywhere. And what, as he was five, six, seven years old, reading was hard, you know, and kids didn't have kindergarten or whatever age it was. I saw that and I was like, we need to create a way. Maybe reading could be enjoyable. It can be fun. So we started piecing the words together and that's at least, I didn't know, I'm not a teacher. I'm not an expert in that educational field, but I think I know people.

And I was like, I think this is a tool where we can make reading kind of enjoyable. And the company we partner with, Vooks, they're all about like helping kids learn how to read, even in the animated versions of those books. And I was like, I'm going to do that. And I called them and I said said i got 10 book ideas and they're like let's just do it so we did one and it just came out which which i'm really proud of where do we find it yeah you can get that on amazon which is cool or you can go to books platform which is a great app where all their books b-o-o-k-s books yeah where all their books

are animated and you could follow along and it's really i've never been like a huge like ipad dad or anything like that but i've learned like there's different ways to teach and this is working so yeah let's let's operate here that's what's up okay so switching gears slightly is um you've been to 30 countries is that the right number 34 now 34 yeah so what are you gonna do there's 195 is that still the accurate number so i don't know yeah i think yeah i think it's i think so so what do you have plans like to get all 195 or like 50 of 195 what how are you thinking about your adventures i'm rolling we're rolling and that's what's cool like a foundational part of my wife and i like i love how you've talked about like what are your first principles in your home yeah a big part of our principles are exploring yeah for sure like our

baby's name is Makai the only reason it has an e on the end is because it means exploring like we will do that and we've done that right went to Europe over the summer we'll save up try to get to Korea we'll try to get to different places because I just want him and Zane to see the world yeah that's cool you know and what have you learned like what are some of the big takeaways and i know it's a big question but when you go to a place that has different spices different sounds you know different experiences that you don't normally see in where you spend most of your time the takeaways are rich yeah what are some big takeaways for you well the first one is the most paramount one that I saw. I moved to Australia after I played college football.

And then every spring, every summer, I'd go somewhere a month at a time. Just go, go, go, solo. I'd go with one bag and one ball. And I'd roll the ball out. I was in India, roll the ball out. I was in Cuba, roll the ball out. I was in East Africa, roll the ball out. Wherever it was, I didn't know the language. So how am I going going to connect and i truly believe we all speak ball like truly believe it like in the east coast we would say let's have a catch you and i just start throwing it back and forth to grammar grammatically not accurate how you'd say that but that's what we'd say on the east coast let's go have a catch mike and we just start throwing the ball or we start shooting hoop and you'd be in it you'd be in the mix. So I believe that. That's number one.

Number two, very clear of like you go, especially as a young traveler, we go to see something. I want to go to Egypt. I want to see the seven wonders of the world. That was like my bucket list initially as a traveler. Cool. What do you end up seeing?

You see yourself in a totally different light. And I learned that really clearly from writing in a journal when i would go i would just sit and write and explore and write and explore and reflect and i'm not a huge partier you know so i would be in the hostel by myself late at night what was today like and i just got to see myself in a totally different light than i ever thought when i'd drop into that country so no no structure, you would just reflect on the day. Yeah. I kind of prided myself on the no structure. I love the idea. And I'd be curious if you'd agree. I think athletes are only guaranteed two things. One is the ability to love

something because you could love a ball like nothing else. I slept with the ball till I was 23. I didn't have a girlfriend. It was just a a ball and then two is you have incredible instinct it's weird yeah it's weird but i was obsessive about it right yeah right um and two is instinct and i try to remind the athletes the quarterbacks i mentor after their careers i'm like don't forget you had this you still have this wait what is they're guaranteed two loves two things two things one is the ability to love why is that unique to athletes well i don't think it is necessarily but i think athletes are guaranteed two things for sure one is like you know how to love because you've loved like you've loved your sport okay i see like but i i i would sharpen it a little bit as it goes for my filter is that there are athletes that are tortured by what they do so you're i think what

i hear you saying and not everybody loves totally sport you know like there's something about getting good there's a love affair with it and i'm processing this with you right now because i think i know too many tortured athletes so help me help me put square that up so this is what i what i think happens to athletes you have this beautiful canvas of your athletic life maybe it's tortured maybe it's miserable maybe you were pushed but at some point i think most of them he least the ones that i've talked to a quarterback right let's just talk about five-star quarterbacks there's a moment in their life where they fall in love with that sport got it okay they fall in love with that ball they say at some point in their

arc that they've had a love affair with learning yeah a love affair with how it feels to unlock. Yeah. And now I think oftentimes right after that love affair, then add in talented, it can become an ugly relationship. But you dropped into like the true agape vibe of love for this craft. I've seen it with a ton of guys at the Elite 11 where they come in and they hate the sport. So have to work backwards so we do a period now every year where we call it the imagination period on night one so let's talk about elite 11 for just a moment this is one of the places we first worked together um not everybody i don't talk about it enough it's a really special program and can you give the high line of what Elite 11 is? Yeah, so think American Idol for high school quarterbacks. We go all across the country, seven to 15 different camps,

100 kids show up, quarterbacks. They compete to get an invite to the Elite 11 finals, maybe 20 of them. Then from that, we choose the top 11 and the MVP. Does it feel cool to you to tell some stories about or just to reminisce about some of the quarterbacks we've been able to spend time with? Yeah. Cause there've been so many. Yeah. So I think that folks that are listening that appreciate sport will recognize some of

these names. Um, but those, those that don't know sport, like this is still really cool because these are young kids that are in a position they literally have earned the right to be one of the top 11 quarterbacks in the country right and so at 17 i could not have handled i could i could not have handled it so i'm watching and i'm supposed to be like helping them, you know, helping with installing. It's a terrible word, but it's just the one I have right now. Installing mental skills at a very young age. And there's no chance I could have done it. And so I watched this program.

Could you have done it? So I went through the process as a wide receiver. You did. So I met Andy Bark in year one of when he began like his Nike camps of all the other positions. Right. At Penn State. one of when he began like his nike camps of all the other positions right at penn state remember seeing joe paterno and their staff because coaches in college were allowed to go back then excuse me and uh and i met andy and i remember so vividly seeing this like good looking guy running the camp being like whatever your job is looks really freaking cool like what do you do

and we connected from that point on oh he's like, and he would never say it, but he's like, I started this thing. Yeah, right. He's like, oh, let's play catch. You know, Andy's always had such grace to anybody. I was not a huge recruit, but he treated me like I was a five-star wide receiver. Yeah. But I think the beauty of you coming in and this, the entire palette of quarterbacks is you can be in fifth grade. Like the amount of DMs I get from be in fifth grade like the amount of dms i get from like fifth graders being like yo i'm gonna be there six years i'm there like it is uh it is it to your point a rite of passage for quarterbacks they all want to be a part of the fraternity but now i think more often than not they want the tools that are offered within the

fraternity i mean this is not a camp where you get a bunch of sweet pictures for instagram you'll get that no you gotta earn you gotta earn some like you gotta demonstrate that you've got skills under or offered within the fraternity. I mean, this is not a camp where you get a bunch of sweet pictures for Instagram. You'll get that. No, you gotta earn some, you gotta demonstrate that you've got skills under pressure. Yeah. Which is really cool. And it's a developmental camp as well. So Justin Fields, Trevor Lawrence,

who else is in the NFL right now? Tua. Tua Tungvaluwa, Jameis Winston. Jameis Winston. Sam Darnold. Sam Darnold. Sam Darnold. Will Greer. Jared Goff.

Yeah. Matthew Stafford. You know, there is, it's everybody. Who else prior to when we got there went through the? Mark Sanchez, Carson Palmer, Matt Leiner, John David Booty. I mean, you can rip down the list. Matt Barkley. There's current guys that are playing now that are huge in college football.

Did Aaron Rodgers go through it? Aaron came back as a counselor. He came back as a counselor. Yeah. He was like early on. Yeah. So if you're in the NFL, Kirk Cousins was a counselor my first year. Like you've been through the journey.

Yeah. It's awesome. I learned so much from these kids and, you know, just being around it and watching them try to make sense of how to incorporate psychology into their everyday practice routines. And at first it felt like I was like year one, it felt like I was giving like a fire hose into, you know, these, these open mouths, like, okay. And then, and then they started having, as years went on, their coaches were bringing in sports psychs or there was some sort of hydration of sports psychology

that was happening. And now it's like when we're doing the training, they're like, oh yeah, self-talk, I know what that is. Like, oh yeah, imagery? Got it. We've been doing that for a while. What else you got? So the sophistication

of the mental part of the game the psychological skills is becoming far bigger and it's really exciting but before we go into that part of it because i know we can we can vibe on that for a while is um i remember when i saw trevor lawrence for the first time how tall is trevor he's like six seven six five what how tall is trevor six it's perfect whatever it is if you build up like the robot quarterback like he's like this good looking you know his hair's flowing and i remember looking i'm like i was built too like you know he looks like an athlete he could be a model the whole thing right and so and then he smiles and he's really kind i'm like this isn't right you know and then all of a sudden he spins the ball like like accuracy with a can.

And I'm like, you gotta be kidding me. Yeah. And so you see kids like that that had this grace and poise under pressure and had accuracy and speed and everything lined up at a young age. Character is a foundation. Physical and technical skills locked in. Psychological skills open and ready and already had a good base of it. And he's working hard. Yeah, well, I think he was unique. Much like, I put my guys of,

who are one percenters? At that stage at 17. You don't say him? Yeah, I do. I put him,in jamis tua and caleb williams who's now starring at usc do justin for just a minute what do you remember from justin i remember his notes yep like it was yesterday you know so my job is like the pseudo host of that show is i kind of i'm just trying to pick and prod, right? So I'm walking behind these guys, peering over their shoulder.

What are the notes? I remember, I remember Justin and the notes. He's awesome. Unbelievable. Dual sport athlete. Talk about a student. Yeah. True learner.

And I just think for him, he had such a thirst. Like, you know, I've been asked a lot because of five-star QB, the book, like, what's the trait? Like all great quarterback. Did you just sneak the title of your book inB, the book, like what's the trait? Like all great quarterbacks. Did you just sneak the title of your book in? Yeah. Oh, you're in. Yeah.

So I get asked a lot, like what's the trait? And I really believe, like of course you have to be a great competitor. Of course you have to throw the ball. But I really think is you have to be a seeker. Like you have to be willing to ask questions. And oftentimes at 17, especially in football, all those guys on that cover at 17, they are el presidente. They are giving answers that sound very political.

Always perfect. Always on. And I think the best ones are like, Mike, help me out here. How do I deal with this? How do I manage this? How can I get better? Hey, Trent, look at my release. Hey, Jordan. Hey, Quincy. Hey, George. Whatever to the staff.

So I think it was Justin that said something like, okay, got it. Goal setting. Right. Not, how do you put it? Something like this, like, right. But how do I do it? Not like, it was like he wanted to make it applied. And I was like, that's special right there. You're in. Yeah, right, you're in. Like there's something about the way that you're trying to metabolize the information to make it real for you, which is really cool. Trevor, I don't know if you remember this, but it was so unique because I wrote the book

with Joey Roberts, who you know is a good friend. What's up, Joey? Joey. He often, he always asks the quarterbacks to write an essay. But within it, there's some poignant questions and i'll never forget trevor lawrence's essay because he referenced like one of his goals in life to travel the globe to be a version of anthony bourdain see the planet try good food and as you got to know him more and peel back those layers you're like oh his identity isn't in five-star qb perfect release great hair number one

pick that's what made i think made him special is that he had decoupled who he was from what he did and he wanted to be great at both yeah it's really powerful what do you remember about tua yeah starting starting quarterback miami dolphins very clearly i've clearly. The year that Tua did it, I was able to direct the film called The It Factory. So we went around all of football and said, what is that word? The it factor. It's the most overused, undefinable phrase,

I think, in sport. We interviewed you. We interviewed Russell Wilson. We interviewed Les Miles. We interviewed Ron Rivera. We interviewed everybody in between that we could get to. And where we netted out was that it's the following you walk into a room people feel your presence and you make them better tua to this day to me has the best it factor i've ever

seen at that age because he walked into the environment let's paint a picture nike's campus 150 athletes at all positions from all across the country all the best at their respective position we're in the tiger woods yeah tiger woods hall bo jackson field like whatever yeah it's epic right and tua from hawaii doesn't curse isn't a partier he rolled in and can connect to let's just be general here but like the farming tight end from Nebraska or like gold teeth South Florida running back. And he didn't flinch. I say that because we've also seen quarterbacks he had eaten up by those players. Yo, man, throw me the ball.

I'm open. Hey, man, what are you doing? Two of us just connecting. And I've never seen somebody navigate like that. And magical. Everybody fell in love and I think continues to fall in love with Tua wherever he's at in his journey.

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that's caldera lab c-a-l-d-e-r-l-a-b.com slash finding mastery what a special program and thank you again for including me in it because i learned so much from being around the coaches yeah like a world-class coaching staff and then from also just watching these bright-eyed kids try to sort it out and be like i think this one might burn out too early let me let me let me see if i can help now of course correct some of this this one feels like you know they've they've over complicated the the game and they're kind of lost in it let's see if we can you know down regulate some of these you know stress responses that they're some kids are like, oh, just keep doing what you're doing. Like, this is like, are you kidding me?

I wish I was doing my life like you. Like, yeah, it's really cool. So what would you say now? Because this book is full of the five-star quarterbacks. There's another generation coming up that is getting offered to get paid, flipping schools based on staff payment and NIL pressure. They're all labeled just like they were back in the day or two years ago, but it's a different label now because now it's not only, Mike, are you the best quarterback, but your value in NIL name, image, and likeness, college football, you can get paid now for that, is $5 million.

I don't think there's a lot of tools to navigate it, which was a huge reason why we even wrote the book. Well, let's first deconstruct NIL for just a moment because let's call it six years ago. Just like last week, there was an article that came out, which was, is social media coming to an end? So we're seeing a collapse in social media from a business end right so we're seeing a collapse um in social media from a business experience right now right like meta changed their their structure there's something happening there twitter has now been bought by elon and there's like a mandates and force reductions that are

pretty incredible like so there's speculation about it and i think all of us know that when we spend that kind of time, that nauseatingly amount of time that we don't feel good when we get off of it, that there's something not right happening. It's not giving life, right? There could be a great source of news if that's what it was. It could be a great source to connect to other people if that's all it was. But there's a comparison thing that happens. There's a mindlessness that comes with the dopamine feed that we're getting, which is little hits of cocaine that that's why we won't get off of it. It's like,

I don't feel very good. You just check in. You just don't feel very good. So, so it's a, it was a provocative article about, is this the end? But I remember five, six, the last five or six years, people, that was the question like that you would ask me, Mike, how do we deal with social media? And there was the comparison issue that was bigger than any other issue. And it is what led me to this concept called FOPO, right? Fear of other people's opinions. And I think it's one of the great constrictors of human potential. And now the question is amplified from NIL perspective is, I think your question is, how are these kids going to manage that they're a business at the age of 17 and the projections on how their college experience is going to be is determined by money in some respects. And they've got the brand thing, right, from the earlier years of social media.

So let's refine the question. The one thing that won't change moving forward is the same amount of players are getting drafted. Less than 2%. There's no 10 more NFL teams. Less than 2% from college to pros. Yeah, because it's smaller than that from high school to pros yeah yeah dramatically smaller yeah so with that said i think it's navigating nil and the money navigating the hype which is crazy with all of the internet

craze it goes on recruiting is a billion with a b dollar industry and then also like the reality which is everybody isn't a first-round pick. You may not play. How do you navigate those three categories? Because the playing one, I think, often gets left off the table. That's right. It's like, bro, you got to play. So there's a lot going on for the athletes and their families.

There's no place you can Google, how do I manage being a five-star prospect? How do I manage being a five-star parent of a prospect? Which is why we wrote the book. We wrote the book. And now what we're seeing and what I believe we're seeing is that the external reality is conflicting with the internal reality. Here's the example.

Externally, Mike, you're the man. You're the man. You're the best the South Bay and LA has ever had to offer. Just say you sign at UCLA. And at UCLA, you can't read a coverage. You're missing your throws. You're not going to class. But when you walk out of the facility, Mike, you're the man.

You're the man. Here's your million bucks. Here's your million bucks. I don't believe that any athlete can tap into, let alone even sniff their potential when they're conflicted. I think you're probably right on that. I haven't thought about that. But I do know that athletes, entertainers across the board doesn't need to be athletics.

As soon as they get their first agent or as soon as they get their first contract and they have a team that's different than the team that they grew up with, the safety of their team, now it's a professional team that's added to the mix. It changes things for them. All of a sudden it's like, I don't want to let people down. They took a bet on me. They're counting on me. Like I've got to show up a certain way and it just changes their psychology. I'm not saying better or worse for the most part, if not thoughtfully done, it is a constrictor. Yeah. And so this, I see this as like, it's going to change some families' lives.

It's going to be noise for other people. And I think that it's for the most part is going to be a constrictor because it's changing the game, at least in the, you know, the, the, the beginnings of this. Yeah. Well, this one, or I net out on it. So I think it's a positive. I think it's a net positive because I think athletes have been leveraged

in college forever. So I think it's good because- They get an education and they're the only amateur in college sports. Exactly. Everyone else is professional. And I dramatically value the education. I think you would agree with that.

Like to the point of not all of them, if 98% of them will not be playing professionally. You need something. You have this amazing degree to take advantage of. There's two parts that I think we should address. One is Caleb Williams. Caleb Williams has a chance to win the Heisman. I think he's been number one pick next year in the NFL.

Quarterback at USC. You met him this summer at the Elite 11. An amazing young man. He is the blueprint on how to deal with expectations, hype, NIL. Talk about switched on. Switched on. He's got a team, he's got a group, and he's a baller. I think he will be the blueprint for every elite performer moving forward. The problem is, everybody isn't going to play that well. And so now, how do we make sure that we value the education? And I think the athletes, and you and I have talked about this a lot offline, of the athletes and

the coaches need to front load mental skills in the facility. I've taken that conversation and cut it and pasted it on every Pac-12 campus I've been on this fall, where I'm talking to coaches saying, all right, take me through the recruiting pitch. When recruit X walks into the building, what's the first thing you talk about? Is it playing time? Is it education? Is it NIL? Often the first question is NIL. So what if you front load mental skills? Hey, right down the hall right there, we've got 10 licensed professionals. Right down the hall right there, whenever you're feeling anything, doors wide open. Talk to these five players who start for us that understand that and they're not afraid to come to me as the coach and tell me what they're going through that's

right it's a different it's a different vision when that's a total different conversation that's right and the and the staffs that i think embrace that now are going to have the healthy cultures because every player that isn't on and starting on an elite team is going to get an offer to leave. This is what we, two places, I'll talk about Red Bull, some of the work we did there, and then at the Seahawks. So the Seahawks, the grand experiment was could we infuse psychology into the rhythm of business? Could we take the best practices from grounded science and what we've learned on the frontier and make it normal and fold it into the culture, but also provide the skills for everybody, coaches and athletes and support staff to be their very best. And that novel experiment was awesome. Helping build that and be part of that. It was electric,

got us two Super Bowls, you know, like there's so many, so much good from it. Red Bull had something different as well. Oh, so let me finish the Seahawks. Let me just stay on Seahawks is that what we also found is that whatever the culture that somebody wants, whether it's a culture in a family or culture in a business or culture in a sports franchise, that that word or a handful of words that you do that deep intellectual work to say, this is the type of culture I want, they all ladder down to psychological skills. So you can't have a culture of, let's say, love without working on your mind in some way to understand how to be loving during stress.

So if I can raise the ceiling of stress, you have more available space to love. And so, so anyways, whatever the word is of the culture, it does require psychological skills. And, and we found that athletes were saying, I'll come to the Seahawks for less because of what you guys got going on. And that is an environment that helps people be their very best. So you're, you're, I think you're right on the money at the college level that the progressives will say, Hey, we've got the 10 sports hikes. We've got this, that, and the other services. This is a place you want to be. And we're stoked that you're getting NIL, but this is a place you want to be. Yeah. I wonder, as you've seen sport, do you feel that there is the first principle

that everybody that's successful has applied first? Is there? Is that a question? Is there a first principle? No, I don't think that. I haven't found the golden thread. It has been 20 plus 25 plus years somewhere in that range where i've been trying to like what is the golden thread what is the common thread

amongst the the best in the world and how they work and there's more of a handful of first principles than there is one but the idea that they are fundamentally committed is definitely high on that list yeah i was going to going to say, I would assume connection is. The best teams I've seen, especially in college now with the market that we just described, the teams that are so connected. And by connected, I mean like, I know you. And I know you in Locker 106. And I'm Caleb Williams. I know you in Locker 56. I know the secretary's actual name. I know the in locker 56. I know the secretary's actual name. I know the people serving food.

Like the ones that are connected. And I feel as I go around in training camp, what's so cool in college football now is that everybody's in the story. Like that is a word that is often talked about. Like it wasn't when I played. I don't even think it was when I coached or even five years ago.

Now it's like, hey, Mike, we're gonna have story time every Monday night in training camp.. Now it's like, hey, Mike, we're going to have story time every Monday night in training camp. And tonight it's the offensive line. Tell me your story. And when I go in and do media training for a lot of schools, it's not just how to answer a question from a microphone. It's, all right, how can you say your story in 30 seconds or less? How can you drop a nugget and block and bridge from a bad question you're uncomfortable with to a story about yourself? And I just think that the most connected cultures especially at this age i don't know what it's like in the pros but at 17 to 22 are the ones that will remain and i think it's

the coaches giving a damn about staying connected to the entire roster versus just the money makers so you're using connection, I would use the word relationships. And so I like the connection word as a descriptor though, because you can have a shitty relationship and you can have a great relationship, but when you're connected, it's implying that it's a good relationship.

So that's a cool way to think about it. And the idea that people are going to put in that work by themselves or like be inspired just to be a connector, those are the rare ones. So when it does require some air cover for people to, from the coach, to be able to say, no, no, no, our psychology matters. Your story matters. I want you to know your story and share your story. And so the connection thing really starts from your relationship with yourself first, and then your relationships with others, and then your relationship with experience, and then your

relationship with nature. And it's not necessarily in this order. This idea of connection and relationships, it's been around for thousands of years. This is not new to you and me. No. So you asked me earlier what's the your other favorite story one of my favorite stories i ever told was a docu-series called all american stories and within it did eight films one of them was on a guy named jerome avery jerome avery was competing in the olympic trials to be a sprinter didn't make it he ended up going to athens greece in the early 2000s to be a guide runner. I had no clue what guide running was, Mike. And all of a sudden he shows me. He takes basically a string,

puts it on his finger, ties it to a string, somebody next to him, and they run side by side and sprint. Well, he's a guide because the individual sprinting is blind. And it got me thinking as we were building out this film of, we come out of the womb tethered. And then we fight like hell to break away. I don't need you. I don't need you, mom and dad. Let me go through my teenage years. I don't need friends. Let me be on my own. Let me do it my way. Walk on. Let me live on my own. I can go do this thing. And then we come on back. We're like, at least now I say this at 41 of I've learned over the last couple of years, like I need community way more than I even thought as a creative used

to be, let me just write, I'll knock it out. I couldn't write this book. There's over a hundred voices in this quarterback book. And I think there's something beautiful to that concept of being connected and remembering, like you lose oxygen literally when the umbilical cord gets cut. And I think you need it as you continue on and try to do great things in life. That's awesome. Yeah. Amen to that. Finding Mastery is brought to you by iRestore. When it comes to my health, I try to approach things with a proactive mindset. It's not about avoiding poor health. This is about creating the conditions for growth. Now, hair health is one of those areas that often gets overlooked until your hair starts to change. That's when people pay

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make it in your book? The ones that were the five stars and all the hype around them. All of them. Right. So let's just define for the purpose of the conversation what not making it is. Cool. So 134 quarterbacks in the history of recruiting as of today, late November 2022, were named five stars. Among those, only 10 were drafted in the top 10. 16 were drafted in the first round. One won a Super Bowl. Matthew Stafford, year 13, team two. The definition of a five-star quarterback is as follows.

A franchise-changing player. Technically, only one player has follows, a franchise changing player. Technically only one player has ever changed a franchise in the history of recruiting. To win a Super Bowl. To win a Super Bowl. How can that be the case? Aaron Rodgers was not a five star recruit. No, Aaron Rodgers went to a junior college.

He was a baller, he got to college. Yeah, so most of the guys in the court of public opinion. Oh, at high school, we're talking about. Yeah. At a high school. Okay. 134 five-star kids. Only one of them ever won a Super Bowl as a starting quarterback.

135 per year? Total. Okay. Yeah. And only one, Matthew Stafford, had won a Super Bowl. Yeah. As of today. So I think like it's important to define like what is a bust.

I mean, yeah. Okay. Keep going. Hold on. Sorry. That's crazy. That's crazy. That is like, you maybe don't want to be a five-star label. Okay. Like only one of your friends got through. So let's give a great example. Two guys you know well. Wait, hold on. I'm blown away, dude. Really? It's nuts when you look

at the sheer number. How certain are you on that number? 1000%. Okay, good. 134 quarterbacks out of high school. At some point,

we're named a five-star quarterback. Some for a week, some for five years. Josh Rosen, dubbed a five-star quarterback in eighth grade. Amazing. Eighth grade.

Tate Martell, five-star quarterback, eighth grade. Max Brown, five-star quarterback in eighth grade. Amazing. Eighth grade. Tate Martell, five-star quarterback, eighth grade. Max Brown, five-star quarterback, eighth grade. Any of them played in the NFL? No. Any of them won a Super Bowl? No, Josh played in the NFL. Yeah, but today? Not today.

Okay, but he didn't change a franchise. That's correct. That's fair. Right? Hold on. Let's talk about Josh for a minute. Yeah, so I want to get there. Okay.

Here's the example. Your producer played with a guy named Sam Darnold. I think you had Sam on the podcast back then. Sam did. And Max Brown. And Max. Perfect. So Sam Darnold, Josh Rosen.

Same year. Sam Darnold, Josh Rosen. Same position. Sam Darnold, Josh Rosen. Southern California. Southern California breeds elite quarterbacks. Sam Darnold. How many stars was he coming out of high school? I have no idea.

Okay, one, two, three, four, five. Let's say Sam Darnold, let's go four because he's running and he's playing in the NFL right now. Three-star prospect out of high school. Got injured as a junior, didn't have all this tape, was playing linebacker, receiver, and then eventually shows onto the scene. And I can remember standing right next to Trent Dilfer, the head coach of Elite 11, watching him throw saying, whoa, this dude's real. Look out.

Away he goes. What is the story told about Sam? Humble beginnings in San Clemente, fought his way to USC. They found a diamond in the rough because they signed another five-star quarterback his year named Ricky Town, who's not in the book, right? Ricky's a different story in and of itself. Sam's got a different path. There wasn't an expectation. There wasn't a standard. He wasn't going to be the next Carson Palmer, Matt matt leinert heisman trophy winning quarterback at usc just a three-star prospect let's flip it josh rosen josh was his narrative was he has all the answers right he's brilliant brilliant absolutely brilliant son of uh you know i think doctor and lawyer maybe or his parents his heritage is highly successful highly successful um Highly successful.

He's had a ton of success. He's an awesome guy to get to know, but he had this narrative, this story to him. And what I loved about having him in our book is that he shared part of his story. So let me give you an example. We ask guys to write a letter to their younger selves in the final chapter. I think it's the chapter that you're in.

And Josh Rosen talks about how when he was in high school, he came as a mid-year enrollee to UCLA. And when he was there, all he wanted was friends. And it was hard to make friends when the team was full of 21, 22, 23-year-olds. So he joined a fraternity. I don't fault him for that. He's looking for people the same age. The minute that leaked on social media,

it became UCLA starting quarterback joins a fraternity. Boom. And the hits just kept coming. And they started in the summer at Elite 11, where it was his Josh Rosen, too smart for his own good. And that narrative has never left him. And having known Josh and talked to him and reading what he shared in the book, like I believe at least Mike, he was dramatically miscast as,

oh, he's the smartest guy in the room versus he's confident. He's really smart. He asks really good questions. You better be prepared as a coach. If you're going to coach him. That's true. I, one of my friends at the Arizona Cardinals, this was, Josh was down there at the time. And he, and he says, Hey, you know, Josh, I said, yeah. And he said, um, he didn't take any notes. It was like a couple of weeks in, didn't take any notes. He's our leader. He's our quarterback. He didn't take any notes. And I was like, how's that working? And he said, uh, well, everyone's kind of blown away by it and a little frustrated. And coach puts him on front street and he knows the whole playbook forward and backwards.

Like it goes in and it comes back out really well. And so it is tough because he understands so well that that can be really intimidating to other people. So there's a narrative, but there's also some skills to back up that narrative for him. And it didn't work for him. He didn't fit in the NFL. Can he throw, can he throw a ball like a surgeon, like a plastic surgeon that needs to do something like artfully, you know, scientifically sound like, yeah, but it just didn't the environments never fit for him how do you explain that about josh i explain it in a couple ways same thing from high school to

college college the nfl is that i think so much of life at that position one is fit i really do yeah i do too um i think two labeled as a bust is, I don't think appropriate. Less than a thousand people have attempted a pass in an NFL game. It's.001 of society. FYI. Wow. Right? So he's not a bust in that regard.

Also, when you think about professions that are highly skilled and have extremely high standards, lawyer, doctor, psychologist, let's just throw a quarterback in there because there's so much attention to it. Are there as many resources poured into the preparation, the lifetime of that position? Like there are checks and balances in all those other professions? No way. No way.

So I think so much of it, like of it like well hey he's got to wear his performance or lack thereof in nfl facilities and i'm not there for any of those so i couldn't tell you that but i also think that so much of his path has been like that fit didn't really work and so much of other people's paths i think are of magical fits russell Russell Wilson goes anywhere other than Seattle? Is he the guy? I don't know. Maybe. I don't know. But it's worthy of a dialogue. It's an important conversation.

I'd say the same thing with Matt Leiner. Fit is like, oh, what about Matt? Matt Leiner is arguably the greatest college quarterback of all time. Well, if he doesn't go to USC and hit it and have Reggie there and have that team there and have Carson Mentor, like there's so many things. I mean, I look at the cover of that book, which is the faces on purpose of those players, and they all could deal. Now, some of them had demons. Some of them had shitty upbringing. Some of them had the wrong coach like there's just so many variables and that's why i think like just throwing down he's a bust he's the next josh rosen or he what

is so like inappropriate to say and you're just lighting up somebody that you don't even know and and that's sport i get it but that is what i hope the book did was like to shed a little light on like the humans that have operated. Yeah, it's really cool. This is the problem I have with fantasy football is that someone goes down like an athlete goes down, maybe a friend of mine, you know, or someone I'm friendly with. And and you hear someone say, man, screw my game, my fantasy up. I'm like, are you kidding me?

Someone just might have just changed their, you know, their anatomy forever, their trajectory. They're like, hold on, what are we doing? And same with, um, my set, I say this to Grayson all the time is like, he'll watch a mistake on, on TV or something. And then he'll have, he'll chirp about it, you know, cause he's 14 and he knows everything about elite athletics. And so I say, listen, you have to be extraordinary. You have to be, you have to be, to suck in the NFL, you have to be world class. You have to be extraordinary just to get in the club. And so I say to him all the time, like, hey, how about just find something really good about everybody? Because they're all amazing you know just if you're cutting somebody and you've never been you you couldn't do it i don't

think that's a that makes no sense to me well i i love that for him you know as he's beginning his analytical broadcasting journey because as a broadcaster now for almost 20 years like a huge part i think of my early knock was he always too positive and my whole thing in college is it's a choice like i can say terrible drop by michael gervais or i can say a drop by michael gervais hit the talkback button to the producer say hey follow him on the sideline to the director i want to see his body language see his body language see See his body language. See quarterback talking to him. Say, look at Gervais right here.

He's talking to his quarterback. This is a guy who loves adverse situations. I bet they come back to him on the very next drive. I got 15 seconds. And I think when you watch broadcasting specifically, and I'm not a Hall of Famer by any stretch of the imagination right now, but I think often it's easy or as a fan to your point to criticize,

not just critique, but I can't believe they ran that. I can't believe they went with that play. I can't believe they gave him the ball. You're going to call that coverage at this time of the game? It's so cheap. Because the people that are spending

all the time that you've seen, the Gus Bradleys, the Dan Quinns, the coordinators, it's their life. It's so cheap. Because the people that are spending all the time that you've seen, the Gus Bradleys, the Dan Quinns, the coordinators, it's their life. It's their life. There's a reason for everything they do. So acknowledging that, I think, is sometimes a step missed. Same thing in recruiting. What do we do when your favorite player signs at your favorite school?

Huddle. Let's see his highlights. Recruiting ranking. Social media. That's why we put the faces on the cover. Because you see armor all day long you don't see human yeah right all day long yeah and they have to live with the fact that they live up to other people's expectations forever yogi what do you wish you knew when you were younger that you didn't you didn't quite have it sorted out? Maybe you're still sorting it out now.

I wish I knew I'd have more fun. We talk about, my favorite phrase, Mike, now, is called the wonder switch. And it's where wonderment and imagination are tied together. And I often think that when you walk into a stadium, or if Grayson walked into a stadium, or if you walked into the beach and you were at Bell's Beach in Australia, you'd be like, oh, wonder wonderful. And you'd imagine yourself surfing or he'd imagine

himself playing. And that's magic. Well, I think oftentimes that switch gets turned off by people or things that you're not aware of. Now it's social media. When I played, it was a position coach. And to me, I was always fighting that I wish somebody said go play like go go enjoy versus super stressed I gotta study more I gotta watch more I need I remember like yesterday stayed up till four in the morning preparing to play Syracuse my sophomore year at Pitt because I felt like I gypped myself on film study that week and I had done more film study than probably anybody in the building but I was like I didn't check my list off and I was exhausted of course for the game so I wish somebody was chirping in

my ear like oh man are you having any fun like where's that wonderment that's cool yeah that's really cool you'll give that to Zane I hope that's what finding free fun is. You wake up and you look outside and you're like, this is cool, man. The sun is out today. As simple or as silly as that may sound, I think here in LA you could walk outside. Of course it's 72 and sunny.

We spend a lot of time talking about the quarterback position, and you've dedicated a lot of time there. This idea that it's more than a position, that it's not just how well you can spin the ball is evident. Can you talk about quarterbacking for life? Yeah, I think the traits that are applied at that position are amazing. And we do this case study at camps. I don't know if you've seen it, where we'll talk to the parents. We'll say, how many of you can remember your eighth grade math teacher? Name? Nobody can. How many remember your high school quarterback? Everybody's hand shoots.

That high school quarterback is not in the book Five Star QB. That high school quarterback is unlikely in the NFL. That high school quarterback was likely 5'8 and 160 pounds than an average high school quarterback. But they were that position. And that position comes with some traits that I think often are inherently assumed. Leader, someone who sets the tone and the tempo, etc. But I think as we continue to move forward, we're seeing so many people become like quarterbacks because we can learn so many more things. We can learn how to lead. We can learn how to set a standard.

We can learn how to communicate. We can learn emotional intelligence. My favorite thing about quarterbacks now is that they'll admit, no, I don't know how to lead. Okay, check out Finding Mastery, right? Come talk to Jervais. Or let me give you a couple principles. And I think that's a beautiful thing for now to compare in life like you don't have to just spin it in high school or in college or the league to be like the quarterback of your business

you have to learn principles around leadership first principles you might say around being selfless around being inquisitive around being a seeker and curious, having humility, understanding the thoughts of yourself and others with empathy if you're emotional intelligence. Those are all things that I think are the traits of a QB that could be the leader of your company, that could be the leader of my production company, that could be the leader of you name it. And I think the one thing still applies to all of them, which is like you have to be willing to learn. Like just because you have the title of QB or just because you have the title of CEO does not mean you're a great leader.

And I think that's the bridge, Mike, that has happened over the last probably five, six years of we've gone from just assuming the QB is the BMOC. He knows everything, big man on campus. To that guy's learning about how to operate, lead, guide, mentor, whatever. And I think the best companies have that. Very cool. How do you finish this statement?

It all comes down to? Yeah, I think I've explored that question a lot. I ask it on my podcast. I completely ripped it from you. So I've know a couple hundred people that same exact question and as my life has flowed it all comes down to my family like it really and i don't think you know we've known each other for a long time like that wasn't the thing you know and with that there's a ton of drop downs right what story are we writing what story are we

telling what story are we seeking like but it comes down to that and that's been really fun because it used to be such a career oriented path for me now like i can't wait to get home and hang with zane and put him to bed i can't wait to read books with Makai who's talking at two and a half. I can't wait to spend time with my wife, you know, alone or as a collective. So it really is. And I think I would have heard people say that in the past. I've been like, huh? And then you're in it. And it's the most magical thing. Like, I mean, you know how in love I am with my wife and my like it is it is magic for me so that is maybe a cliche answer but there is so much depth to that for my every day yogi appreciate you thank you for sharing um adding perspective not missing depth, being a relationship emblem for people to say, yep, it's right

there. And then people listening right now are like, yeah, I need to do better in my relationships or, oh, I love this because they're already doing it. And so thank you for reminding us of the power of knowing our stories and understanding other stories and for reminding us to be an adventure to travel to go see and smell and understand humanity in its forms across the planet so appreciate you thank you for being a friend yeah bro back at you thanks for having me all right thank you so much for diving into another episode of finding mastery with us our team loves creating this podcast and sharing

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