Fine Dining - McDonald's Breakfast Isn't Clowning Around feat. Chad Damiani

Episode Date: January 22, 2025

A magic belt that produced burgers? It's before 10:30am, which means it's time for McDonald's Breakfast! Learn the history of this iconic (and, in my opinion: better) half of McDonald's menu before diving into the clown lore of Ronald McDonald himself with the Clown Boss Chad Damiani Chad tells the story of a McDonald's fiasco his brother experienced all to try and save a few bucks McDonald's breakfast started as something offered by one location just "trying it out" -- something that would never be tolerated in today's corporate landscape The creator of the McGriddle is a fast food maverick also response for the SmashBurger chain, the stuffed crust pizza at Pizza Hut, JIF peanut butter, and more! Ronald McDonald isn't very visible these days, and that's no accident New segment! Hear the restaurant of Chad's dreams: The Tiny Diner A Yelper reviews the drink he got at McDonald's on his way to dinner somewhere else "Fine" Dining is now on video! Head on over to my YouTube to watch this episode! Music by: James McEnelly (@Ramshackle_Music) Theme Song by: Gabe Alvarez (@spooky.gabe) Segment Transitions Voiced by: Sandy Rose "Fine" Dining is on Patreon! Get an extra episode every month (I closed the year with my Patreon exclusive episode covering rude-service-on-purpose restaurant chain Dick's Last Resort after driving to Las Vegas with friend and season 1 cheese correspondent Steven Zurita), extended Yelp from Strangers segments every other week, merch discounts, download access to our music including the 7 singles from our Olive Garden musical, and more! Patreon Producers: Joyce Van, & Sue Ornelas   Get the 5 Survival Tips for Casual Dining at www.finediningpodcast.com!   Send in your McDonald's stories at [e-mail].   Follow the show on TikTok and Instagram @finediningpodcast Follow Chad on Instagram @thechaddamiani   Let me know where I should go next by leaving us a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, PodcastAddict, Overcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. I read every one!   Next week on "Fine" Dining: McDonald's Breakfast Review [Part Two]! Chad Damiani returns to eat fast food for the first time in a long time, and discuss how the employees thought I (as Ronald McDonald) was sent from corporate as we break down the Good, the Not Good, and the Just There of McDonald's. Ever work at McDonald's? Send your stories to [e-mail].

McDonald's, it's the biggest name in chain restaurants and an even bigger reason why my body is shaped this way. After establishing its dominance in the fast food realm as a hamburger huckster, McDonald's went waybo's deep into serving breakfast. Americans went nuts for the Egg McMuffin, the Sausage Biscuits, and the McGriddle. Who needs dignity when you can eat a sandwich where the bread is pancakes? The breakfast menu's immense popularity grew so large it was even featured in an Adam Sandler movie.

In Big Daddy, Sandler resorts to throwing himself in front of a moving car to cheer up a child whose entire meltdown simply stemmed from missing the McDonald's breakfast cutoff time of 10.30am. And speaking of physical comedy, their mascot, Ronald McDonald, is one of the most famous clowns in the world, having been a staple of McDonald's' advertising for over 50 years, before people started associating clowns

with nightmare fuel, and the brand chose to distance themselves from him. Today on the podcast, we're going to look at the rise of the morning offerings of this fast food juggernaut and talk about the origins of Ronald McDonald. I'm also debuting a brand new segment. I'm very excited about it. And then we'll read our favorite Yelp reviews of the McDonald's we went to. Stay tuned. This is the fine dining podcast.

Your table is ready. Take a seat. The flavor of the day is mediocrity. podcast. Better than you thought, worse than you hoped. Fine dining. We don't treat media per ads a joke. Breaking every single place we've been. Looking for the perfect five out of ten. I think it's so interesting that Ronald McDonald at some point wasn't the thing that caused the nightmare fuel. Do you know what I mean? Like, there was a moment where, like, we gotta get rid of this guy or we gotta ignore him.

There's no moment when I was being made up where I didn't feel like, come on, we should have known sooner. Exactly. Like, and then you can look back at, like, Bozo the Clown and you can look at all these moments in clown history where you wanna say to everyone around, you should be terrified.

Yes. And the fact that someone just like changed their voice a little bit or added some fangy teeth, that's what you needed. That's the only modification needed to horrorize this. Yeah. Like 99% of this is already an absolute trash fire. Well, speaking of trash fires,

hello and welcome to the Fine Dining Podcast, the search for the most mediocre restaurant in America. I am your host, Michael Ornelas, and this is the show where I dive deep into the history of our favorite chain restaurants before reviewing them. The subject of this week's episode is the history of McDonald's breakfast and the history of Ronald McDonald. And from one noteworthy clown to another, I'm absolutely delighted to introduce my guest for these episodes.

He's the host of the podcast, Stand Up and Clown, as well as the monthly live Stand Up and Clown show at the Elysian Theater in Los Angeles. He's a regular member of Stamptown and can be found traveling and teaching clown in 2025. He's clown papa, clown daddy, clown poppy, but officially he's the clown boss, Chad Demiani. Thank you for having me. It's still hard to look at you. I did this to impress you. Did you hear my heart slowly break?

I turned down your mic so that it specifically wouldn't come through the headphones. It's just we could, I mean, at some point we'll break it all down. Yeah, so for those of you not watching on YouTube and just listening, I am fully dressed like Ronald McDonald right now. I've got a red wig that, when I looked at the comparison picture afterwards, I realized is all wrong because Ronald McDonald's hair is not curly. No.

He is more of like a shag. No, that's just a straight up American Sir Trad clown wig that they're just telling you is a Ronald. Because he had a side part kind of, didn't he? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He had a good head of hair.

If you really look at Ronald McDonald- You don't expect it from a clown. He really is like the disappointment of a son, that Colonel Sanders, like the hair and the basic face and shape is Colonel Sanders. Is this the lore we're creating that Ronald McDonald is like the literal adopted redheaded stepchild of Colonel Sanders? Put them side to side and you'd be like, they could be related. Yeah.

I mean, just imagine Ronald is in this, in the, in the lore, Ronald is younger. Yes. But both have gorgeous heads of hair. Although, to be fair, Colonel Sanders didn't like start KFC and get famous for it until he was in his sixties. So it all does track. So Ronald McDonald was probably famous. I forget what year KFC started, but like, they were probably on the rise around the same time.

This is how conspiracies start. Yeah. Wait a minute. This doesn't add up. Hold on. Actually, it adds up too perfectly. Yeah. So Chad, in this episode, it's the history episode.

We're learning about McDonald's breakfast, which I'm making a specific distinction. We did not review the burger menu or the lunch menu offerings, whatever. We did breakfast specifically. So, and we're also going to talk the history of Ronald McDonald, the character himself. And then I have a new segment I'm debuting that I have asked you to

prep for. I'll be the first one. You're the first one. I've got a good one. Great. And then we're going to read some Yelp reviews. And then next week we will review going to McDonald's dressed like this, you being completely unfazed other than me pulling

up next to you in the parking lot, you looking over and just kind of like going, of course. Yeah. Yeah, I've seen too much. You in general. Yeah, but also yeah, that'll be fun too because it wasn't just a meal. It was truly an experience. Yes. So I want to ask before we jump into the history of McDonald's, what is your history with McDonald's? Have you eaten here much? Do you have strong opinions about it? Do you have nostalgia for it?

I'm a little removed from McDonald's now, but as a kid, that was definitely the big treat. The Friday night, and I was raised Catholic, so on Friday nights it would be filet-o-fish. Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah. Because during Easter, because you weren't allowed to eat meatish. Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah. Because, you know, during Easter. Yeah. Because you weren't allowed to eat meat. And we, yeah, absolutely. Back then Burger King was kind of holding its own. It wasn't quite the shame spiral that it is now. Right. So it was, it was one of those two was like a very big deal. McDonald's for me was, it was where I realized every day

I could try and push my mom to take me to McDonald's. So I'd be having it multiple times a week. Like I would be asking daily. And I got- You really pulled something off. I got it, yeah, it was the, I got away with the heist of the century. I remember the apple pies were always a thing for me.

Apple pies and very early for me to the cones. Yes. Yeah. Cause it was still ice cream. They don't have, well, they have them, but they're always broken now. Yeah. And then the happy meal toys for me. My mom is a shark when it comes to baby needs something.

She befriended the manager like a couple weeks before the teeny beanie baby happy meal because the beanie baby craze got me bad as a kid. Oh wow. Because I was like, I was living in Chicago, which is kind of where the heart of it was, that craze. And then the McDonald's happy meal, teeny beanie babies came about.

My mom befriended the managers and got like multiple of the whole set and was like locking them down for the other moms in the neighborhood and stuff. And was just like playing that game. So that is like kind of my with a bullet, my number one memory of McDonald's is my mom scheming to lock down these Happy Meal toys. This is before your time, but my mom would go in and they would have these specials. Yeah. Where if you said, double, double cheese cheeseburger burger, please, please.

You would get... Let into an orgy in the basement? Like what? You just get like a quarter off. Oh. But I mean, no shame at all. My mom would let you be like, get over here. Chuck, get your brother. Hi. Oh, yes. What would, get over here, Chuck, get your brother, hi, oh yes, what would you like?

Double, double cheese, cheeseburger, burger, please, please. And she would do the whole- Was it only when kids did it? No, no, she did it. Or was it one per person? You would have to say it at the register. Now, I imagine if you just said, just give it to me. Like if you were like, they would. But in general, people would go in

and they would just say these like phrases to get the discounts and stuff. And my other, my favorite memories, they used to have sometimes these deals where you'd get like two Big Macs for like $2. I mean, this is way back, I'm 52. And one time, it was just when my brother had gotten old enough to drive

and I wasn't feeling well. And my mom sent him to do this. But there's four of us, right? My mom, my dad, my brother and I. So she wanted my brother to do this. She wanted my brother to go into the store, do the deal, then go through the drive-through. Do the deal again. Do the deal again.

What a racket. So my brother, who's very shy, he's just in misery. He goes in and there's a new person at the register. So we asked for this deal and it is just a mess. And like, they don't know how to put it in the system. They don't know how to do it. And people keep coming over. And of course, normally he wouldn't care, but he knows he has to do the

second run through the drive-through. So it goes on- So he throws off the whole game. He's just like, I'm anxious. And now he's like, everyone's looking at it. Like, he's the center of this thing. Yeah.

They finally figure it out. He goes in the car, he says he almost comes home, but he goes, no, he knows my mom will be furious. Power through. Well, what has happened is, because this person's messed up so much inside, they moved that same person to drive through. No!

So my brother literally hears their voice through the drive-through. Whoa. And then it's like, and then just hears, oh, hold on. And now it's all started again. Wait, it gets even worse. Oh no.

So then this goes on again. and he's just in the car and all he had to disguise himself, like no one would care, he had to put a hat on and he's in a car. So he's got the hat really low and he gets to the drive-through finally after another like, hold on, I have to figure this out. And as this person, this very flustered person

who has messed up twice already, first day on the job, as they're handing my brother the food, my brother's kind of like hiding himself. And there's a, like, she drops a soda on the car. Oh, no. And then she runs around to clean, like, with a rag. And my mother's just trying to hide his face for this thing that saved us maybe like $1.50.

Yeah. Oh yeah. When he came in, he told us this story. And I remember it was just like, he was telling it to us as if he had just like seen 9-11. Like it was like the most traumatizing thing. And we were like paralyzed with laughter. We couldn't stop laughing at how stupid the story was.

That's funny. Good times. I like that. All right. So you do have a pretty eventful family history. Oh yeah. McDonald's is a huge part of my life. Not like I said, I kind of stopped eating fast food maybe 10 years ago, but.

Oh, huge. Well, do you want to know the history of, specifically the breakfast of McDonald's? Sure. And of Ronald McDonald? All right, we're going to jump into this week's Eat Deets. Eat Deets. Eatery Details.

McDonald's' breakfast was first introduced in 1970 by franchisee Jim Delegati, who began serving coffee and morning items during hours when most locations were closed. His experiment accounted for 5% of his restaurant's business within a year. That it is just an individual franchisee decides. Yeah, just I mean, I would also think now it's so an individual franchisee decides, yeah, we'll do breakfast. Yeah, just, I mean, I would also think now, it's so interesting to hear that fact, because I think if you were an individual franchise that even deigned to-

I know, I was gonna say, don't you dare. Don't you effing change a thing. Yeah. Like, to hear that and be like, one of our most fruitful things is something we have worked completely out of the system, do what you're fucking told. Yeah.

You know, and that's, that's how all of those big corporations are now. But they love to champion like the hot Cheeto story, or they love to talk about like this one person in the company did this. And then they're like, but right now we would literally fire you before you got out of your car, if you thought about it on the way to work. If you, I think there's like very strict rules against like at Hooters. If you wear the uniform outside of work, it's like punishable by death or something like that. You know, it's funny because I've, I've never seen someone in one of those uniforms outside of a Hooters. Maybe on come over later.

This is the spot. I'll hop in one. Oh, okay. It has to fit better than this. Anything. On anything would. Alright, so, however, it was franchisee Herb Peterson who truly transformed

breakfast at McDonald's with the invention of the Egg McMuffin in 1971. Peterson presented the sandwich made with an egg, cheese, and Canadian bacon mixture to McDonald's' founder, Ray Kroc, who approved it enthusiastically. Do you think it also speaks to just a different time, right?

Like, it's such a simple... Yeah. Such a simple, humble breakfast. Do you know what I mean? See where we're at now and it's like, look, we don't want people to be tired at work. Maybe this simple offering. Yeah. It's just because that is-

Nowadays, all the culinary innovations are just like, well, how many Cheetos can we jam back into? Can we re-fry this? Can we do a Cheetos slushy at 7-Eleven Like it's like that kind of, oh, it's just sheer excess. But yeah, like there's this almost mindfulness in that offer of like, it's very light. Yeah. They'll come back for lunch.

It'll be fine. Yeah. By 1976, McDonald's had a full breakfast menu well ahead of its competitors. In 2003, the McGriddle was introduced and became an immediate hit. That's no surprise. But what is crazy is the legacy of the man credited with inventing it. Tom Ryan, who has a PhD in flavor and fragrance chemistry, is the man behind this delicious health hazard, as well as stuffed crust pizza,

Jif peanut butter, the entire McDonald's dollar menu, and the smash burger restaurant chain. Wow. Yeah. Wow. That's, that's such an interesting because he's not a one hit one trick pony. No, those are all very like I was like, here it goes. This is gonna be a sweet and savory guy. Like he's just gonna keep riding sweet and savory. But then it went all kinds of directions. Stuffed crust pizza at Pizza Hut. Smart. Smashburger, like an entirely different chain

that has a more upscale identity than McDonald's does. Jif peanut butter out of nowhere. Which by the way, I don't know what makes Jif different to where it's an innovation compared to... Maybe that it has no peanuts. It's made with zero percent real... You wanted to get rid of the one thing that they held you hostage on? The use of peanuts in this thing? I got you.

Just butter. Yeah, I mean this guy, clearly responsible for many deaths. Oh, yeah. But, uh, viewed fondly. And access, like, with Jeff kind of, again, standing out, but like, this idea of how do we chase excess. Yeah. I mean, really interesting. All right, with customer demand at a fever pitch,

McDonald's rolled out all day breakfast in 2015, but it created logistical challenges for franchisees such as increased equipment costs and operational adjustments. Despite these issues, the move initially boosted sales and stock prices. That was the last time I was eating fast food, probably 2015. And I remember that all day rollout. Is that what made you throw in the towel? Be like, God damn, I can't do this now. Day is night and night is day.

But you know what it reminds me of is. People have said that for years. It's sort of like as someone who watches wrestling. They're always saying, like fans, if things aren't going well, we'll just turn this wrestler heel. Yeah, yeah. Here's what you could turn Hulk Hogan heel, turn John Cena heel.

Like, or- Never did it. Or they'll say like, turn them, like it's always some massive thing that's like, yeah, let's just shift all the logistics that exist. And of course, and this makes all the sense in the world that they're like, oh, now these employees are like, oh, the literal workflow is being seized up.

Yeah. I saw a subreddit full of employees commenting on how the all-day breakfast made their jobs harder. Because it's like, you know, we have different settings on the different cooking implements and stuff that we can kind of just set to one thing when we're just making burgers. But when we have to keep toggling back and forth, it creates this whole, which does read like a microwave. We have to keep toggling it. Yeah, when they say toggle, it's like,

I don't toggle when I'm cooking on a grill. Do you mean just turning the heat different? Do you mean the power setting is from a seven to a six? I do think though that certain restaurants do it more effortlessly just because I think they're just literally defrosting things. Yes. And I do think McDonald's,

although like a diaper fire of a restaurant, I do usually, you know, but at least when I used to go would always feel like, I never felt like I got an old burger. Sure. I felt like I mean Wendy's I think for me. Well, they're starting around at such a fast rate It's like there's no time for the ingredients to go bad. McDonald's is so busy Right, and it's just like oh, they're not going back into the freezer to get more. They're like they're just they have to keep making it Yeah But I do remember that happening and thinking

Yeah. But I do remember that happening and thinking, this wasn't the end of me having fast food, but also it was this idea of like, I don't want all the options all the time. Yeah. I was like, because I can't trust me. Like, you're giving me too much room. I think too much is the best way to define what,

not just fast food, but like chain restaurants in general have become. I hate chain restaurant portions with a passion. I want half the price, half the portion for everything. Yeah. It's just, they give you too much and they, even in their marketing, they're advertising endless shrimp. And you just see literal raining shrimp on top of a steak. Cause it's like, you order a steak, you get, you know,

an actual pound of shrimp or whatever. And it's just like, I don't need that. For me, whenever I see an ad for unlimited pasta at the Olive Garden, and I was just like, oh, this is, this is what they do before they, they slaughter you. Yeah. We are foie gras. Yeah. Like it's like, and also, yeah, the richest possible foods, they're, they are vealing you.

Yes. But yeah, that specific one, because pasta is so heavy and just the idea, or if I see like on Instagram or TikTok, someone who's like, I'm gonna see how much of this pasta I can eat. I was like, how about you visit your parents? Like, I don't know, it's like, I was like, I don't think this is a great use of your.

I think you're going to feel terrible. Well, to be fair, when you are there, your family. So it's kind of like visiting your parents. I guess that well, I wish I'd made that joke. Then my joke would have looked so much better. First. God damn it. Yeah.

So despite them seeing a boost in business for those first couple of years that they introduced all day breakfast by early 2017, the novelty wore off, and McDonald's reported its first decline in stock since the launch of all-day breakfast. Isn't that one of those things where you're not sure what variable is causing what? Because like... That's fair. You know what I'm saying?

Like, because right now we're seeing all fast food chains are... Tanking. Tanking, offering all these like $5 deals, $3 deals. And you could say it's like, well, they got too greedy. Oh my God. I mean, I see some of the like pricing. Yeah. Which is like the idea of going to a fast food restaurant and spending like $25.

Yeah. I just like can't even wrap my head around it. I went to California Pizza Kitchen the other night with my girlfriend. We got one appetizer and an entree each $72. That's insane. I remember when that same amount of food would have been 40, 45, and it wasn't that long ago. Yeah. Well, everything, you know, it's that pandemic's supply line.

Supply line. Yeah. And then they're just like, that's okay now. Yeah, but we're just going to keep it this way. But they're like, yeah, people don't know better. People aren't looking into it. Do your own research. That's what I did with vaccines. That's what I do with everything, Chad. And again, I did get the vaccine.

Yes. Despite your many emails. And I'm happy I did. I mean, if you want the government to know where you are at all times, do it. That's fine. Maybe I do want them to know. I mean, you keep your phone on you. They know. They know.

So no surprise, but health concerns are a recurring theme with McDonald's breakfast. The bacon, egg and cheese biscuit packs 450 calories and just under 1300 milligrams of sodium and the big breakfast with hotcakes boasts over 1,000 calories and the full daily recommended fat intake. Well, it's just nice to know that you've got that out of the way, though. You're like, well, that's my calories for the day. Calories, fat. I don't have to worry about eating the rest of the day. No, I just have to find vitamins, minerals.

Like, that's just, that'll be easy. Supplements, you know. Healthier options do exist, though, such as the egg white delight McMuffin, which has only 260 calories and lower fat content. I mean, it's gross. Yes, that is that is kind of the thing. Also, like if we're going to do a pros and cons. Yeah. The egg white delight is like I mean, it just sounds like also like

your nerdiest friend, something that they'd call themselves. Like the blandest person you know. I'm the parfait. Yeah. McDonald's has pledged to use only cage-free eggs in North America by 2025, reflecting a commitment to more ethical sourcing. That's so interesting because just in North America,

but also, I mean, they're just like not with their beef though. One thing at a time. Slow down, Jeff. Yeah. You know, but it's just like we're being more ethical. Look over here. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like, but God, could you imagine like the amount of like unethically slaughtered

cows that McDonald's has responded? If there's like, if you believe in sort of some sort of karmic, yes, on like unparalleled amount of like bad karma coming their way. I love how much this is teeing up the next fact. Although it's not to do with beef, and it's not as unethical, but it is kind of just a crazy statement on the over consumption of the footprint of McDonald's. So, this is the craziest tidbit I've found. Highlighting the scale of the breakfast operations.

McDonald's uses over 4% of all eggs produced in the United States. Oh my God. That means one in every 25 eggs in America is used by McDonald's. Just the idea that like, people are sourcing that many calories from this place, like in their daily lives.

Yeah. It's just, well, there's over 41,000 McDonald's locations nationwide. And you know- Sorry, not nationwide, worldwide. And you do see, I have one near where I live, and there's always like, still line, like not like an in and out line, but they're still very busy all the time. It's just reliable and at some point,

recognizability matters more to people than anything else. It's just like, you do know what you're gonna get with a McDonald's and even though it's not great, it's fast and it is consistent. Absolutely. I mean, like there's a level of like settling whenever you eat that, but there isn't surprises. You know, there isn't this idea of like, but then at the same time, they do seem to want to offer all these new things all the time.

So people still kind of want that too. So that's a huge number. Yeah. I thought that was crazy. One in 25 eggs goes to McDonald's. That just makes me sad. So outside of our country, McDonald's has breakfast offerings very widely. In Saudi Arabia, you can find a halloumi muffin. For those who don't know, halloumi is a cheese with a very high melting point, so it's often fried or grilled and used as a meat substitute. Can I tell you what I thought was going to happen there, and it just shows how little I know about the world, is that you were going to be like a halloumi muffin, and I'd say, what's a halloumi?

And you'd be like, I don't know, halloumi or you. You know it's like going to be one of those things where you like- What am I don't know, halloumi or you. You know it's like gonna be one of those things where you like trick- What am I from vaudeville times? You tricked me into saying halloumi and I guess I am wearing literal like- You're literally dressed like this. But- I look like the wrestler Tugboat.

Oh yeah. Yeah. Or just the shirt that I'm wearing. I like to think of him as the shock master, but that's fine. Great moments in wrestling history. All right, Japan serves a mega McMuffin with double sausage and bacon, which is just the most American sounding thing.

So I'm surprised we don't have that here. I just always think, too, when you're dealing with like those kind of meats, when you double them, what are you gaining? What are you gaining? Kind of diminishing returns because a bite of it is the flavor and the flavor is overwhelming. So you don't need a ton. And I love bacon.

It's like if you had a cake and you're like quadruple icing. You're like, what? God, no, why? So wait, I have to, there's as much icing as cake now. You're like, God, no. That's insane. Yeah, yeah. I'd try it though. Okay. All right, you're going to cut it in half.

I don't know if I'd like it, but I'd be like, yeah, sure. Challenge eating. In India, the veg supreme McMuffin caters to vegetarian preferences. It features a grilled patty made of spinach and corn, along with a tangy mint mayonnaise, tomatoes, and onions. I want to try that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I don't think I'll like it,

but I think that sounds at least like that. Doesn't it sound like someone really put some thought into it? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The mint mayonnaise sounds interesting. Veggie patties in general, I just struggle with because anytime you're trying to replace a thing, I would just rather have the thing like meat substitutes. But I would argue a spinach corn substitute

because I'm of this mind with impossible burgers. I don't mind one once in a while, but like you, I feel like, well, this is just trying to taste like meat. But when I used to have veggie burgers growing up, they were just something else. Right, which is what I think they should be. I also feel like let's just have it be something else. And I think that could have a different flavor.

I remember a lot of meat substitute burgers were like a lot of black beans and lentils and they just would be more earthy tasting. And Australia offers an English brekkie wrap with eggs, bacon, sausage, and barbecue sauce. Huh. I don't like the name. Yeah, I don't like that it's the English brekkie wrap, unless it's on an English muffin.

But isn't brekkie kind of a cutesy way to say breakfast? That's the slang for breakfast in Australia. So, but would like a grown adult say brekkie or would only a child? No, no. Okay, then I don't know this. Adults in Australia will say Brekkie. Oh, I would still judge them harshly. Yeah.

Like, there's so much about their language that is worthy of your ire. But there is something about like cutesy ways of saying things that I really, as someone who does so much stupid stuff professionally, that I should be okay with. It's nails on a chalkboard to me too. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

All right. So let's move past breakfast and into the mascot history. Barry Klein, an advertising executive for both McDonald's and the Bozo the Clown television show in the 1960s, introduced Ronald McDonald by merging the two. The original design featured a McDonald's cup for a nose, a cardboard tray hat filled with nose, a cardboard tray hat

filled with toys and a tray on his waistband that magically produced hamburgers. And I have, I have to see a picture of this. Oh my. They're going to see this. Yes. This will be unsure about that. Describe what your look, I mean, it it's I literally just read what I'm describing is I have somehow found my way into a traumatized child's mind

And I am going through the deepest darkest recesses. Uh-huh. Um This cup nose makes me feel like underneath is no nose Do you know what I mean? Like it's just like, like those two holes that happen when someone's like they're badly. Like a Voldemort type situation. Yeah, Voldemort situation. The hair is better than yours. No offense.

Not my real hair. Well, I was just gonna leave it at that. I wish I could see this belt. It's just not in the picture. The utility belt. The utility belt full of burgers. Magically produces burgers, which is alarming. Yeah, also it's just like, hmm.

That feels like the hot bag that you see on the side of a bike that's picking up your DoorDash order. But that fashioned into a belt. Like, are you going to have a frosty from that belt? Like, where's the line? There's a ketchup dispenser. You're like, ah. It's like, open your mouth.

I got more for you. Oh, God. Uh, though inventive, the look was deemed excessive. You think Willard Scott, a former Bozo and later a today show weatherman became the first Ronald McDonald, that one that we just saw in 1963. Michael Coco Polikovs, another Bozo alumnus, revamped the costume, introducing the now iconic yellow gloves, which were meant to resemble fries,

and a bright red wig, modernizing Ronald's look while maintaining McDonald's' red and yellow brand colors. Yeah, how do we make this guy more modern? I mean, when this is the jumping off point? I know, but like, the red hair, like just the idea of like, we gotta give this guy some red? I mean, when this is the jumping off point. I know, but like the red hair, like just the idea of like, we gotta give this guy some red hair.

We gotta bring him into the- He needs to look like an orphan out of the 20s. That'll be modern. Yeah. You know, when you mentioned Willard Scott too, it's like more than just a bozo alum. He's like one of the like bozos that created the bozo craze.

Yeah, yeah. He was like a great bozo, thezo craze. Yeah, yeah. He was like a great bozo, the clown. Yeah. Which is so funny that it seemed like he had no connection with this as he like moved on and just became like the beloved old weatherman. Right. And made millions and millions of dollars.

Distanced himself a little. There was no like joking around. I mean, if there was, I never saw it. It was just like, he was just like this sweet old uncle. I was like, this guy was like part of do we have range as people? I'm this now. Yeah. Yeah. That's funny. I want to wear that as a t-shirt. I'm this now. And so whatever, if you talk to me about anything happened in the past, I'm not interested. I'm not here in it. Yeah. McDonald's has emphasized fitness in Ronald's portrayal since the 2000s.

This pivot includes dressing him in sports attire and positioning him as a balanced, active, lifestyles ambassador. Boy, you know you're serving some hot garbage when you have to come up with a phrase, balanced, active, lifestyles ambassador. Like, not just like, you can't say like, he gives a shit about balanced active lifestyles ambassador. Like not just like, you can't say like,

he gives a shit about, he cares about his body, he's fit. He's, no, it's, hey, let's put a sweat band around his forehead and have him holding a tennis racket. Nothing even close to like healthy. You can't say anything close to that cause then you're gonna get rained down upon. So it's like, what is it again? Active, balanced lifestyle ambassador?

Balanced active lifestyles ambassador. I mean, just, is that even an acronym? B-A-L-A, Abala. He's Abala. Tom. His character also adheres to strict rules about behavior and interaction, such as avoiding hugs to respect boundaries.

Avoiding. Sounds like other stuff's going on there. about behavior and interaction, such as avoiding hugs to respect boundaries. Avoiding. Sounds like he's the other stuff's going on there. Yeah. One, it's like so funny. It's like, no one wants to be hugged by someone who looks like an American circus clown for the clown to be like, I don't like it either. Yeah.

Yeah. Just throws his hands. I'm done like it either. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Just throws it. And I'm done with it. Ronald McDonald was once surrounded by colorful McDonald land characters like grimace, the Hamburglar and birdie grimace, initially depicted as a milkshake thief was rebranded as a lovable sidekick. I love that whole grimace shake thing that happened.

That was one of my favorite trends. Summer 23. Oh, I just thought some of the directions people went with like the horror show of drinking the Grimace Shake was some of like the most innovative, fun extensions of thought and stuff like that. Yeah, I just, I watched them incessantly and like most of them would disappoint you

and then you just run into one. Yeah. And it would be like a Lars von Trier movie. It would be like five minutes long. Yeah. And you're like, this is fucking brilliant. Yeah. Do you know what Grimace is?

Like his design? Oh, I don't. He's a sentient taste bud. Okay, you caught me. Not words I expected. Like literally papillai, the like purple knobs on your tongue. That's what the grimace is. But why is he grimacing? Well, if you put something bitter on the taste bud, you grimace.

That's what he's decided. He could have been... He could have been the sweet. He could have been... Well, I mean, just that he could have had a positive reaction to whatever he was dealing with. Come on, we know what he's dealing with. Yeah. He's dealing with that old Ronald Donald food belt. He's like, no more, please. That's eating me.

He's grimacing at the ketchup pump. It's like, why is it right at crotch level? So most of these characters did disappear by the early 2000s as the advertising evolved, which honestly I don't think was necessary. I think people had- I love those characters. I don't think there was any reason to get rid of them.

I will say that, do you know, what was the Hamburglar in terms of ethnicity? I don't wanna go into this. No, no, I'm saying like, I know. You do know. Well, the original ad for him was very on the nose anti-Semitic. That's what I thought too.

I've never... If you... I don't know this, but I was like, there was something about the Hamburglar that like always made me feel very uncomfortable. And it wasn't that he was a thief. It was something else. They changed his whole face design to be way more, I think, like a kid. Okay. Was the new direction they went with it.

Originally it had like a big nose. Yeah. There was something. And they were calling him crafty and like, there were just like so many dog whistle terms. I'm not going to play it here, but go look up the first Hamburglar commercial. It's. I remember saying it come direct.

I remember saying a commercial where after he had stolen a bunch of burgers, he then invited the gang to his son's bar mitzvah. No. And I was like, that's, like, there's no denying what you're saying now. Like, this was too far. He was reading from the Torah while eating burgers.

Yeah, no, I can remember seeing it and just like, there's so many things from my childhood that I remember seeing it and just like, there's so many things from my childhood that I remember where it's just like, there was some part of me was like, this isn't right. But like there was, it was just happening and it was on national television and that was one of them for sure. Yeah, yeah.

That's so, but it is like, I just, it's nice to hear it and know I'm not crazy. Yes. Okay. But yeah, anyway, so I literally did a Patreon episode in like July of 2023 covering the Grimace Shake and that whole meal. We do actually play the first Grimace commercial, the first Hamburglar commercial and kind of talk about all this. So it's funny that you brought up that question about the ethnicity.

And now you know I'm not a Patreon supporter. Or that's where you got it. You're like, I heard it somewhere. It could be that. You know I'm not a Patreon supporter. Or that's where you got it. You're like, I heard it somewhere. It could be that. Lastly, part of the reason you don't see Ronald McDonald around so much anymore. The viral sinister clown sightings of 2016 caused a further decline in Ronald's visibility. McDonald's reduced his appearances to distance itself from the cultural backlash against clowns.

I liked how you said that because it sounded like Ronald did it. Well, no, but like, I know, but McDonald's did it. Look, the stock in clowns went way down. Oh, no, and I 100% hear you, but just in the way you said it made me laugh because it's like, they were like, Ronald, we've got a bunch of, and he's like, you know what, guys? Oh, you kind of said it like, I'm just going gonna bow out. Yeah, you know, I got some family.

I built up some vacation land though. I'm just gonna take that, yeah. There's a really interesting thing with clowns right now because there's so many ways to be an embarrassing clown as a professional clown. And on Facebook, one of the only reasons I go there other than to see like high school friends melting down over various things, is there's a community Facebook page called Clowns Only.

And a lot of times there's really hot debate between what are called trad clowns. And that's like, I make balloon animals and I go do kids parties. And I have like a round red nose. Yeah, and I have this great look. And scare clowns who, you know, create looks or work at like, you know, not scary farms. And like, they don't quite get, like, they're trying, but they have real struggling to get along.

Yeah, yeah. Because especially the trad clowns are like, you cost me my career. Oh, wow. You know, like now people are scared of me and they're like, well, no, we're just doing it different. Here's the thing, I don't know if I agree because I feel like the nightmare clown

came from people being scared of trad clowns. And that is the irony of it all. Yeah. Is because what happened is it stayed too long and like anything, like look at all these horror movies of it all. Yeah. Is because what happened is it stayed too long. Yeah. And like anything, like look at all these horror movies you look at. Yeah.

And it's like a boy from Victorian times. Yeah. You know what I mean? It's like anytime something from the past is brought into the present and treated like as if it- Like an oddity. An oddity. It does. It gives us a chill. Yeah.

And if it wasn't for, I mean, John Wayne Gacy. I get so spooked whenever I see a penny farthing. Oh yeah, I saw one drawn in the way to your place. You know, I'm just kidding. But there is like, I mean, it's just such so tropic that anything like, you just see like, you know, somebody like in like dust bowl clothing or something like that. And you're just like, that's doesn't

belong here. It's like, and that's what it is. It's the simple feeling we get of like, and then when you like put some grease on it. Yeah. But yeah, like, and it's no shot on like people who made a living as trad clowns either. And like they're they're doing their best. And they have this act that they've developed. but there is a feeling that you're asking people to come with you to a place that no longer exists.

Yes. And that can be whimsical, but it also can be terrifying. Well, it's just a matter of recognizing that as fact and not being in denial of it, and then you can work with it. Yeah. And also it's like as artists, then you can work with it. Yeah.

And also it's like as artists, like if we don't find ways to like kind of inch forward in some way, it doesn't mean like completely changing who we are and our look and this and that. Oh. Like, it's like, then there is just this sort of like, well then we have to deal with things like novelty or being out of place. Like it's just like, then we have to deal with things like novelty or being out of place.

Like it's just like we just have to deal with it. And that doesn't mean that we don't have an audience. I was just in Atlantic City a month ago. I took my parents down to see one of the Spiegelworld shows because you know, I freelance for them. And, you know, there's all these duet bands. I mean, we're talking about bands where everyone is in their 60s, and they're singing songs they were singing 40 years ago. Yeah. Well, in the 60s, I guess. 60 years ago.

60 years ago. Hold on. Yeah. Hold on. I think we found another conspiracy. No, but math. Math conspiracy. But it's this thing that it's like, oh yeah, there's still someone who wants to stay in the past. Yes.

And if that's the audience you want, but you can't be mad at people in the present. Right. If they don't wanna go back with you, you know. So clowns come at me. Okay, and then lastly, today while Ronald rarely appears in commercials, he does remain the face of Ronald McDonald House Charities, which provide housing and support to families with sick children.

So while he's no longer prominent in the company's marketing, the charitable work in his name is Ronald McDonald's enduring legacy. And that'll do it for this week. So, yeah, I just want to say that it's good to know with how scared people are of clowns now that Ronald McDonald is still finding a way to be close to sick children. And that will do it for this week's Eat Deets. Okay, Chad, you've just heard about everything that goes into building a successful restaurant brand from the ground up, and you've obviously eaten in restaurants before. The next few minutes are all about you and your vision for a chain restaurant dining experience of your very own.

This is the restaurant of your dreams. You're going to love this. No, no, no. Sing the next line of the song. Oh, start. Could you, could you, could you. This is the restaurant of your dreams. It's even better than you believe. Waldeco you've never seen before.

This is the restaurant of your dreams. No, we both overcorrected the harmony. This is the restaurant of your dreams. No, we both overcorrected the harmony, whatever. God damn it. You've given me so much direction. Chad, I mean- And then there's a song I know nothing about.

So there's so many things- Chad, this is the first time this segment's ever happening and I wanted to see what would happen if I just started singing at you. As a former clown teacher of yours, I can't be mad at you for executing a bad idea and seeing what happens. So I guess... About vulnerability, you know.

Congratulations, I guess. Thank you. That we're both gonna look terrible in this particular clip. I'll cut it together so it looks worse. Okay. So Chad, what I'm gonna do, ask you to tell me about the restaurant concept

that you yourself want to see in the world. It must be practical, delicious, memorable. Three, two, one, go. Have you heard the story of the tiny diner? Oh, no. I'm going to take a chance here. Yes, do it. I'm going to introduce you to the tiny diner.

That's me. I'm the tiny diner. What, you wanting some food? Not sure, but have a lot of tastes that you'd like to have? Well, come to the tiny diner. I want you to think of tapas. Sorry, can I ask a question real quick? Sure.

Is it like diner isn't an establishment is tiny or is that a tiny man who is the diner? So the mascot is a tiny little person who wants to eat at a restaurant. That's the tiny diner. But like there's a double meaning. And what I wanna do is I wanna take the tapas idea, small plates, like a traditional Greek or Italian diner.

So you can order a very small one egg, Greek omelet with a little bit of potatoes and like a little piece of toast. And like, so you can then go to a diner, which has like normally this, this is the problem with diners. Cause I was just at a bunch recently. You go, the menu, Yeah. You go, the menu essentially is... It's a book. Yeah, I was going to... A book by Thomas Pynchon. It's like 500 pages.

Yes. Right? And so many things. And you're hungry and you're like, oh my God, this all looks amazing. This is an assignment though to whittle it down. Whittle it down. Yeah. Right?

And you're going through... And then of course every plate is obnoxiously huge. Like it's more than you could possibly want of whatever you've ordered. And I think in other culinary worlds, we've taken on like dim sum and tapas and like this idea, but like what I want, I can't have a tiny little grilled cheese sandwich.

I can't have with a couple little fries and then maybe split it with a buddy. And then he goes, you know what? You get the tiny grilled cheese. I'm going to get the one quarter club, turkey club, the quarter club, the quarter club. So what you end up with with your friends. Now, imagine you've been drinking all night. You've been partying all night. It's two in the morning. And then you go out with six friends and get tapas from the Toiny Diner. That's very important. That's, you have to say it that way. Is the mascot named Tony Diner? Tony Diner. Well, he's kind of like- Toiny Diner. I think over toying, over toying, Toiny Diner probably become Tony diner. Yeah. But like this idea of like the commercial being like, like these drunk college kids are coming into like a diner in New Jersey at two

in the morning. Yeah. And you hear, what's your step? And then they look down and they're like, like, I hope you're lying. I know your boys are hungry. But take your time. And then they get the menu and like, yeah, I know your boys are hungry. But take your time. And then they get the menu and like, we like all of it. We don't know what to get. And it's like, why don't you try a bunch? I love that this is like bringing in like cereal mascot vibes.

Yeah, this is the Lucky Charms guy. Yeah. Went into a side gig. Yeah. But here's one of the things, though, that like there is like an element to the tiny diner, which I haven't even gotten into yet. Oh, OK. There's like kind of like some dinner theater going on in that, like as you're having these tiny plates, could you end up staying longer because you get to try a bunch of stuff. Yeah. Yeah. You have to do a little breakfast, do a little lunch, do a little dinner.

But then there's like a little tiny payphone. And at one point, just as like part of the like the showmanship of the restaurant, he's just like, let me just talk to the kids for a second. Just put them on the phone so I can hear them, even if they're asleep. But no, just that like there's little dramas that play out because the tiny diner puts on a good face. But he's also dealing with a lot of his own personal problems. So you might see him on this little payphone. And you just like, and if you're not near, you don't catch it. It doesn't affect your meal. Is this like tiny bookies are coming for him?

Well, it's a, you know, it's like a tiny stories happen. Like there's like tiny tales being told by the tiny diner. But, but I mean, that's just like a boat added bonus. Really what I I've been, I was just at house of pies the other day. Yeah. Most people, they like 20% of their meals. Meal. Their meals.

Yeah. And it's like, ah, seems like such a waste. It's like, I don't think they were full even. I think they were just done with those things. Yeah. And diner culture right now does not really, what's the, when you encourage, it doesn't encourage like,

why don't you all try something? I think it's very funny with your position as a teacher that the word encourage was tough for you to think of. It matches your style so well. I was like, I have to look it up. I was like, there's a G in this? I don't hear it. I don't hear any Gs.

But yeah, like I would look, I was like, oh, these people might still be hungry. And if we'd all ordered from the tiny diner, maybe we would have all gotten the taste of, I would have had, I could have had one fried shrimp. Yeah. And guess what? We don't need endless shrimp. We need an accidental shrimp.

An accidental shrimp just slides in. Like the accidental curly that you get in your straight fries. Oh, I've got it in my skull. Oh, not a pub. That's what I thought. No, no, not a pub. I was like, at this restaurant, I was like, that's going to ruin my meal. No, no, no, no. When you get an accidental curly fry in your order of straight fries.

I'm so excited. I just love the feeling of flossing when I don't mean to. But yeah, you know I'm so excited. I'm so puking. I just love the feeling of flossing when I don't mean to. But yeah, you know I'm talking. Also, so many fried foods and sweet foods. We don't need a big piece of Bavarian cream cake. We need a tiny thing that is three bites. And then guess what? We'll order another.

I don't even know if it needs to be that. I want doll food. There you go. If it's a tiny diner, I don't want small. I want tiny. But yeah, so that's my idea. And I think Diner Tapas would be a monstrous success. Yeah.

All right, Chad. Well, that was one more time. Let's see if we can hit this note. The restaurant of your... It's so hard to follow because I don't know what the original beat was. All right, here we go. This was the restaurant of your dreams. You can do the harmony.

Dreams. Can I? Crushed it. Can I? Okay. Thank you for sharing that, Chad. Now that I know everything you think a restaurant should be, I want to turn to Yelp and see what others expect from a restaurant,

specifically the McDonald's we went to in this week's Yelp from Strangers. We need a little Yelp, a little Yelp, a little Yelp from Strangers. A one star, two star, three star, four by yi. So get a little yelp, a little yelp, a little yelp from strangers. A little yelp, a little yelp. Give us those complaints while you literally white and die. Yelp! Alright, this is Yelp from Strangers, our segment where we turn to Yelp and read out

our favorite one, two, three, four, and five star Yelp reviews from the very McDonald's that we dined at. Chad, do you mind if I start us off by reading the first review? Of course. Five star review. This is from Peter X from Los Angeles, California, December 7th, 2023, five stars. I stopped by this McDonald's tonight to get a large Coke before heading to the restaurant, restaurant, restaurant to eat dinner.

So he stopped by McDonald's to get a drink on his way to a different restaurant. I was just trying to break that down. That's interesting. Also, why not? Like, like so much easier, like a seven, a lot like, yes. Yeah. It'd be so much easier to get a drink differently. I figure getting a large soda here would be cheaper than getting a soda at the restaurant.

Interesting. Also not true probably. Which it was. No, he said it was. I saved like half the cost. So it was worth it since it was on the way When I pulled into the drive-thru there was no cars at all So I was able to basically pull up and put in my order

The drive-thru menu screen was kind of broken, but it didn't matter to me since I only got a drink I paid at the first window and then got my drink at the second window. They accommodate my request for light ice and also filled up my soda all the way. My interactions with the employee was simple and they were polite. The drive through here only have one lane. So be aware of this. And the Plaza they are in is basically one way. And, and then that every, yeah.

Are there two lane drive throughs? No. Okay. But the craziest, that's the full review. Can you pass? That's the whole review. The craziest thing though, he uploaded seven accompanying photos. He really had a good experience.

And it was just different vantage points of different spots in the drive-through, like corroborating his story of like, see, there weren't other cars. See, it was a small lot. And then one photo of his drink. It is light ice. This guy wrote a full Yelp review,

five stars with seven photos, to buy one Coca-Cola on his way to dinner somewhere else. By the way, on my way to dinner somewhere else is like a Tom Waits song. To me, that is crazy. It's crazy, but let me say this. In a way, it's like very functional and something that people would normally not review that is like very much part of an experience.

So is this person clinically insane? Yes. But is he providing a service? This is... debatable. I mean, that was light ice. I want to go back. OK.

I would have had to take his word for it. I do love the idea, though, of a two-lane drive-through that's two ways. Both ways. That's both ways. Beep, beep. I was going to go back. That would be absolute chaos.

I just love to see it from the clown in me. Would love to see that run for a week and just see how many car accidents there are. Four star review. It is from Jada L from Burbank, California. I recently got a sandwich here called Fliya Fish. Oh, interesting. It was very tasty and well made.

It had a dollop of tartar sauce and is served on a warm sesame bun. The fish is breaded and appears to be steamed, though it could be fried. Oh my God. They're not. They're not steamed. Yeah. OK, that's amazing. I also noticed a chicken sandwich on the menu. I did not try it this time, but I hope to someday. I did not give this establishment five stars because they do not provide bread service.

This is why I picked this one. While you wait for the main meal. What? What is your expectation? This is a McDonald's. There is a small window to the side of the restaurant where you can place your order while remaining. Where is this person from? She's never been. Like the concept of a drive-thru is foreign. The expectation that McDonald's has bread service.

It's just we found a person actually living under a rock. Oh, this is also interesting. This is a nice option. If you have an appointment, did she make one? Well, I think she's saying if you have an appointment after or like you're headed to like you're on your way to an appointment, I know what you're saying. Like a reservation. So this is someone potentially from another country or culture.

Her profile is from Burbank. Yeah. And also it feels like if you've even managed to like gain residency, let's say you're just new to Burbank from somewhere else that this experience of like, I understand maybe you have not had a filet of fish. Sure. But like expecting bread service from a fast food restaurant bread service. It made me laugh so much when I saw it. I was just like, this is really good. But in like the verbiage of like, oh, and they have this great thing,

a small window on the side of the building so you can access with your car. Also the way she explains the drive-through is not really like, it is you can access with your car, but it really doesn't say what it does. Right. Like, you can peek in. Yeah, like it says like access could be so many things. It's like at Din Tai Fung where you can see them rolling the dumplings ahead, like, oh, like a zoo.

I do feel like to her credit, she could have easily taken off two, three stars for no bread service. She could have. But she did. Four stars is still a very good score for a steamed fish sandwich. Did you like those reviews?

You can get three more over on my Patreon. That's patreon.com slash fine dining podcast for the full Yelp from Strangers segment and an exclusive fine dining episode every single month. And that's part one. Stay tuned next week as we give our thoughts on eating at the McDonald's you just heard reviews about. We got breakfast.

I was dressed like Ronnie McD. We'll go into everything that was good about it, everything that was not good and everything that was just there. That'll be in one week's time. In the meantime, Chad, where can people get more of you online? I am on Instagram at the Chad Damiani and my link tree is Chad.Damiani and that's where all my classes shows. I'm traveling a bunch in 2025. So definitely follow me and check it out. I will say his live shows are just a blast always. I've gone to a bunch of them and I will continue to go when you are in time. I'm sad that you're traveling next year because

I'm like, I know what that means for me personally, because I want to plug in more to the community of what you've got. I am the heartbeat of this community. A recent article in the LAist called me the father of modern clown in Los Angeles. I called you Clown Daddy and Clown Papa. Yeah, I heard it. Right to my face. Right to your face. I didn't need an article to do it. I didn't need to be like, I hope he sees this later. I told you.

Thank you. Awesome. And you can follow me on Instagram and TikTok at Fine Dining Podcast. You can get all five of the Yelp reviews on my Patreon. Otherwise you just get the two, so go check that out. And yeah, we're just gonna be sitting here waiting on our table for one week's time. Stay tuned next week.

Have a fine day! We're stuck in line Waiting on our table, waiting on our table We're so hungry, tummy's grumbling Waiting on our table, waiting on our table We gotta continue our search for mediocrity Yeah Waiting on our table, waiting on our table We'll be waiting and dissipating Waiting on our table, waiting on our table We'll be waiting and dissipating it Waiting on our table, waiting on our table We're sleeping in this week or digging in

But we're waiting on our table, waiting on our table We've got an appetite for just sit tight Cause we're waiting on our table, waiting on our table Search will continue and we see you next week He-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he