Fine Dining - Papa Johns Doesn't Do Pizza Well

Episode Date: May 21, 2025

🍕 Papa Johns: The Pizza Review That Gave Us Indigestion 🍕 We reviewed Papa Johns… in the lobby. One item at a time. On plastic chairs they dug out from the back. Make no mistake, this branch of Papa Johns rules, but at the end of the day: it's still Papa Johns. After learning the ingredients now arrive in prepackaged plastic bags from an employee literally covered in something the company calls “dust,” we had to ask the big question: is Papa Johns objectively as good as Chili’s? Joining me is comedian Nick Stargu, whose multimedia stand-up special "Why Won’t You Dance with Me?" is on YouTube. We talk pizza, dipping sauces, employee transparency, and we mess around with his electronic saxophone to blur my voice, whatever that means.   🪑 Eating Papa John’s in a Chairless Lobby (But Management Accommodated Us!) 📦 Ingredients Shipping in Plastic Bags Instead of Fresh 👻 The Employee Covered in “Dust” 🍕 Pepperoni Pizza That Made Me Sad 😬 Wings That Were Just… Sweaty? 😳 Workers Said They Prefer Pizza Hut & Dominos 🥐 At Least the Cinnamon Pull Aparts Were Tasty 📉 Did Papa John’s fail the Chili’s test?   💬 COMMENT BELOW: Does Papa Johns still hit for you? Or have you also lost your faith in the brand?   📢 SUPPORT THE SHOW & JOIN THE COMMUNITY: 🔥 Patreon (Bonus reviews & exclusive content!): https://www.patreon.com/finediningpodcast 💬 Discord (Food talk, memes, cursed Yelp reviews): https://discord.gg/6a2YqrtWV4 🎥 Watch full episodes on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@finediningpodcast 🔗 All links: https://www.linktree.com/finediningpodcast 🎤 Nick Stargu’s Special: Why Won’t You Dance with Me? – https://youtu.be/kZJnpDMhbR0   Patreon Producers: Sue Ornelas & Joyce Van   👉 NEXT WEEK: I head to Dunkin’ Donuts (or is it just Dunkin' now?) to learn their history.

Papa John's! The staff rolled out the red carpet for us, but the ingredients are delivered to the store in prepackaged plastic bags. The pull apart cinnamon bread was scrumptious, but the employee behind the counter said he prefers Domino's. They gave us chairs so we could eat in the lobby, but the packaging for our food was taunting us. After determining chilies to be the perfect measuring stick of mediocrity just two weeks ago, my first foray into utilizing the chilies test is today, where we're reviewing this Papa John's. Is it objectively good, aka better than chilies, or will it forever carry the scarlet letter of being sub-R?

Let's find out together. This is the Fine Dining Podcast. Fine dining, better than you thought, worse than you hoped. Fine dining, we don't treat mediocre as a joke. Breaking every single place we've been, compared to the perfect 5 out of 10. Hello, and welcome back to Fine Dining, the quest to compare all restaurants to Chili's. I am your host, Michael Ornelas, and this is the show where I'm using chilies, the perfectly average five out of ten dining experience, to measure what is good or not

good by comparison. So the question on our minds today, is Papa John's better than chilies? I know you most likely just said hell nah out loud wherever you are right now, but we're going to keep our minds open to the possibility while we tell you all about our food, our experience with the staff and what it's like to eat one item at a time in the lobby of a Papa John's that has nowhere to sit. Joining me today to discuss Papa John's is a very funny comedian with a unique multimedia and musical style. He has a YouTube special called Why Why Won't You Dance With Me,

that I've watched and enjoyed two times now. It's my newest friend, Nick Stargew. Hi. How's it going? Good, thanks for having me. Thank you. So, thanks for watching it twice. Yeah.

I hope you watch the second time on double speed. And so forth, the third time I will. And the third time on third speed. Yeah, it'll be like a right now But it'll be like when you're when you're approaching zero on like limits in Is a calculus or whatever? That'll be the speed I eventually watch it out on my like in 900,000th watch through that was the nerdiest way to explain that the amount of time it takes Will be approaching zero or half speed, you know, if you really liked it.

I'd watch it at half speed. You'd watch it at half speed? Yeah, I wanna hear what your voice sounds like, you know, slowed down or like way deeper or something like that. There we go, how about that? Oh. Oh yeah.

This is what my voice would sound like kinda deeper. But now you have to talk twice as slow. Oh, this is what my voice. How's it going? It's great, yeah, we had quite the experience today. How are you feeling, genuinely? Genuinely post-experience or just in general? Post-experience, like, yeah.

Is the Papa John's affecting you? Yes, I have indigestion, but it's not as bad as I expected. I often get to a point when recording the part two episodes where I am talking through holding back burps. Yeah. And like... You know, that's a fetish for some people.

No. No. Yeah, burping fetish. Like for people to watch that that or like, you know. I don't like that. I had a friend who burps a lot on her TikToks. And she's like, that was a smash burger or whatever. And you got to be careful because there's guys who like this kind of, she's like, I know.

They're paying my bills. But yeah, post-Papa John's, I can get bad indigestion from like pizza, cause it's like the sauce and the cheese and everything. It's just very bready too. Yeah, bready and we had garlic. I think that's what comes up in me. There was garlic and stuff.

And I don't know if this happens to you, but when I get bad indigestion, sometimes I feel like I can't breathe. And the walk back from a place can be rough, depending on like what I ate. Yeah. So it wasn't as bad as I was. I was worried about it. OK, we're good. Yeah, we're hanging in there. Hanging in there. We'll see where this goes.

OK, well, we're going to break this down and talk about all the good things. So I'm going to play that jingle and we'll talk about only the positives of the Papa John's experience. This is good. Don done like it should be. The stuff that's faking licking, or stinking the land in. This is the good, I knew that you could. This is the good. First thing I noticed when we walked in was

that they seemed to be working very hard. They were under a crunch. It seemed, yeah. I didn't see anybody that was just like standing around like they were going for it, right? So much so that actually it added to a bad thing. Right. So when we walked in, oh, I guess we won't talk about the bad stuff.

Yeah, we'll just only bring that up later. Yeah, yeah. I do think there is a lot of value in seeing like, okay, yeah, everyone seems to be pulling their weight, right? No one's slacking off There did seem to be and like we got there Pretty shortly after they opened. Oh, yeah. Okay. I'm Pretty sure there was no one else in there when we know got there

I think it's for a pickup order They seem surprised when we walked in and they seem surprised that we were like placing in order while staying there. Right. I think that the business model has shifted in such a way over the years that they wanted it to be to go. They always want it to be to go. They always expect it to be to go. And we had some honestly some very transparent conversations with some of the people that work there. And you you know, they were kind of saying like with COVID, they used to have. Maybe a little table and seats and stuff like that. And then COVID came and for protective reasons, they got rid of it. And then they were like, all right, well, right. Screw it. We're not, we're not going to bring that back. I'm sure they're saving money.

No one's going to eat here. Right're not gonna bring that back. I'm sure they're saving money. No one's gonna eat here. Right. And then we walk in. Enter us. And they did give us chairs. Yeah, they went into the back, brought out some chairs. This was after we mentioned that there's a podcast involved.

Yes, and they were very kind. Yeah. The manager or the owner, not even the manager, the owner, passed on a message to one of the people working and they were like, hey, the owner said that like, we'll get you anything that you just wanna try. And I'm like, that's so nice of them. It was very nice.

So I'm going to put a blanket disclaimer over this episode because I don't think highly of Papa John's. I don't think highly of their product. And I mean, like it's a joke of like me going in and judging them on this layout of like we're eating in the lobby. I understand that they didn't force that upon me. That's my self-imposed bit. Sure.

It's not really factoring into the score that much. I don't objectively love the inconvenience of like eating messy things over a box in a lobby of a Papa John's where it's hot. I don't put that on them, but my blanket disclaimer is literally this branch in particular seemed to care. I had almost unanimously positive opinions about my interactions with the staff. My criticisms are of the brand's product.

Right, the food. Not the branch. Right. So I do believe that the things I didn't like would be applicable across all Papa John's The only thing specific to this location That I will criticize Is and I'll get to it later, but it's like it's not even really their fault, right? Right, so I think I would say they, they surpassed expectations.

Yeah. For when we got there, from the beginning, when we got there, I was, I had a certain perception and then by the end, yeah. And I will say there is a, it's always a flip of a coin of how are they gonna react when they find out I'm making content about them? Because the first thing that was asked,

when they saw, because I just, I take footage, right? I get pictures, I get video that I put into the YouTube episode, just to give receipts to the things I'm talking about. And a guy popped up like the neighbor from Home Improvement literally over a barricade, we just did the top half of his head. And he's like, could you just blur my face?

Whatever you're making, that's fine. Just could you blur my face? And I don't think I got any footage of his face, so it won't be an issue. But yeah, I mean, I'm never looking to like, put anyone on blast or make anyone look bad. People are just trying to get through their day. Do their job, whatever.

I'm not here to interfere with that. I am just documenting what I see. So that was like the first interaction, but then it did lead to him asking, well, what are you recording for? And you know. Well, he wanted to be, he wanted to be blurred out, right?

Yeah. So how about, when you talk like him, you use the microphone. Oh, hey, yeah. What's this for? So we're just doing a podcast about Papa John's. And so you won't be in it, but- Oh, cool, cool, cool.

Yeah. Yeah. Could you just not show my face if that's okay? Yeah, no worries. We won't use your face. We won't use your voice. We're just gonna talk about the food. I live here.

Oh. They keep me in the back, in the freezer, as I walk in. Oh, so I did notice you ran your fingers through your hair. That was just me doing my hair like you would do at home before you go into work. So we might be talking about this on the podcast if that's okay.

Yeah, that's fine, just blur my face. Okay, we'll blur your voice too. Bl blur my voice. This is what blurry sounds like. This is what blurry sounds like This is work. This is blurry Yeah, and so after we learned he was living in the walk-in yeah It's like hey man, like hey man, if you need help, let us know, we can get you out of this situation. We can call whoever went to CPS, I don't know. He did not seem underage, but you never know.

CPS might be able to help. They have heroes that work amongst them. They'll help us. Can you imagine someone calls CPS and they're like, 19 years old, sorry. Too old. Not touching it, not helping. Sir, I'm burning, I'm falling into a cement truck. That's on fire

I want one call 9-1-1 different number. Yeah No, the good things that you've noticed. Yes were Rolling out the red carpet basically for us I thought that going to the back and getting chairs for us to sit was so a step beyond what I expected. We were just kind of crouching on the windowsill. We had no reason to be there. Yeah.

And I asked for like the items to come out one at a time because I wanted to do a bit of like, not even that I was expecting to outsmart them, but I almost expected them to be like, oh, you have your food, could you leave? So I was like, well, we can get around that if we order one thing, get it, then order another thing, start eating the first thing,

then order another thing, start eating the second thing. I had a plan. And it ended up being unnecessary. They got it all out. Faster than- Faster than quoted. Quoted, yeah. And it all came out together,

and we asked for chairs. They went back, or no, they offered chairs. We didn't even ask. Yeah. We just, we said, do you mind if we eat here? It's just part of the bit. Basically. Right.

They're like, we can get you chairs. And I thought that was genuinely a step, two steps beyond what was expected. Yeah. I think, I think they, they didn't know we were doing a podcast until after we got the food, right? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Which was interesting. Because yeah, it was like while we were like

just starting to like film stuff, and then when the food was sitting on the counter is when we like told him outright, this is what this is for. You also liked the word cloud or something? I noticed the word cloud. You noticed it, okay. It's crazy. So when there are places that I have such low opinions about,

I'm really reaching for positives. Right. And while I didn't even love the word cloud, I liked the vibrant red paint. I was like, oh, this looks like it was recent. Well, because their aesthetic is brick, fake brick, fake brick everywhere. Yeah.

Even on the side of the soda refrigerator. Yeah. Yeah. But this one wall had a way fresher coat of bright red paint than the other. Like the counter had a similar red that was way more sunfaded. I'm guessing that's post John Schnatter. Yeah, because it did not say the N word.

It didn't have the N word in it. It used to. It used to. It was crazy. It used to. Yeah. So, yeah, I mean, the decor choices were minimal. They're not in the good overall. Right. But, you know, it's little silver linings and a fresh coat of red paint is enough of a silver line it's a red lining where I'm like yeah okay wait red line letting racism yeah I think so that's that's Papa John's fit in there

okay I do have two things that I ate that ended up in this category. In the good category. In the good category. Yeah. One of them is not a food, it is an accompanying dipping sauce, but just the, I think they just call it the zesty sauce or the zesty garlic or something like that.

Yeah. That we got with the wings. I feel like it wasn't meant for a wing. It was too thick of a sauce for what I imagine, because the wing is already tossed in a barbecue sauce. Right. So it doesn't meant for a wing. It was too thick of a sauce for what I imagine because the wing is already Tossed in a barbecue sauce, right? So it doesn't need any idea This felt like it was meant for like a breadstick or something like that. That said I did it with the wings and I liked it I thought that the zesty sauce I asked them like they're like, it's a proprietary blend. It's you know, it's just a little bit spicier. I

Liked it. I went seven and a half out of ten just on that sauce. Okay. Not the best, but it elevated something that I was otherwise not really enjoying. You understood what the you know the whole thing about their sauce, their dips, being like you got understood. You understood the thing. It's the thing. Yeah. So the zesty sauce I liked. Yeah. You had some food in the good. I had some food understood the thing. It's the thing. It's the thing. So the zesty sauce, I liked. You had some food in the good. I had some food in the good.

I actually, I liked the wings more than I expected to. Yeah. The thing I liked the most, I would say, was the cinnamon pull apart bread. Yeah, yeah. Which I believe you also liked as well. I also had that in the good. I thought it was crumbly, tasty, warm,

had a great texture. It had like chunks of cinnamon crumbles on it. Kind of the cinnamon paste, whatever that dark stuff was, was tasty. And the edge and the middle, both had distinct textures, neither of which bad. You know, kind of had like a, tougher sounds like an unenjoyable

word but like a like a heftier. Yeah. And then doughier toward the middle. And I thought both were good. Yeah. So I went eight out of 10 on the cinnamon pull apart crumble. Very solid dessert. Yeah. Yeah. I think I matched you on that. That might get out of 10 on that tickled my sweet tooth in the right way. Yeah, you were very surprised. You're like, oh, this is actually pretty good. It's- That was my impression. It's spot on.

It was served in like that, like- Like a pizza box. Like, no, but inside that, the tin foil. Yes. What would you call that? A tin, like a- A tin? Tin, yeah.

Yeah. Not the most like, when you're thinking of, like, plating. Right. Like, it's just like, ugh, this felt like they ripped the plastic off, put it in whatever they put it in to heat it up, probably an oven or something. Give it to you. Not nice. We should have asked if it's, like, pre-prepared and they do that or if they actually like ice it or I'd imagine that

They iced it after the fact. Yeah, they've gotta It didn't because it otherwise I feel like it would have been more dispersed Yeah, and this felt like it had like it had the lines it had ropes if that were shot across it It felt it felt human. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. All right, if you want to talk about your other good things Yeah, I am out. All right, if you wanna talk about your other good things. Yeah. I am out. I thought the garlic knots, you know, I'm an East coaster,

so I've had lots of garlic knots. And for a franchise, you know, it was pretty good. So that's the qualifier for me that causes me to bring it down. Oh, okay. Where it's like, because I'm just comparing it against all foods I've ever had. I see, yeah.

So it's just like, for a franchise, to me, I'm not rating it on that scale. You can. Yeah, yeah. And if for you it's like, oh yeah, this was good for that, then cool, let's hear it. None of the things are things I would just say, you know what, I'm gonna go back to Papa John's

and order that. Yeah. But I didn't leave today with any future cravings. Right. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, it was the bottom of good, like a seven. Okay. Yeah. For me. That'd be six. That'd be six.

Well, it should be six then. Yeah. Cause yeah, I guess it's a six. All right. Yeah. Then the wings. Then the wings. I was surprised that the flavor was actually pretty good. It was kind of smoky. Yeah. We got the barbecue wings.

I know you weren't a fan of the texture of them. You wanted them to be crispier. Yeah, I'll talk about them in a different segment. But as far as, maybe I haven't had other wings at other franchises before. I think Pizza Hut might do wings as well. They have Wing Street is their- Okay, are they boneless or boneless?

They have both. They have both, okay, yeah. So I don't know if I can compare the two, but for what I expected it to be, it was better than I expected. So I gave it a better score. Sure. Yeah, so I gave it a seven.

Do you have anything else in the good? That's it. Great. I'm gonna just start the jingle for the not good so I can go into addressing my thoughts about the way for it. Okay, let's go for it. This is not so good. I'm not quite sure about it.

Could have known without it. The stuff that brings down the mood. This is just not very good. So like the taste was fine on it. Like I agree with you that there was a smokiness and the sauce wasn't bad. There's like the best word I can use to describe the texture. And this does apply to like a wing street

or something like that. It's like sweaty. Hmm. Like it feels like sweaty. Hmm. Like it feels like damp. Okay. More than saucy. Okay. And it's like, it's soft, but not in a way where I'm like, it's tender.

So it's just all of these things where it's like, it's approximating what it should be, but it's coming at it from like a different angle. It's like, if I had to drive to your place, but I went all the way the other way around the world to get there, it would be like, yeah, I got there, but how I got there just isn't right and it's less enjoyable. That would be how I would view these wings.

Okay. And you had a wing and a leg, right? I had a wing and a leg. They were roughly the same in my perception of them. Like microwaved maybe. I don't know why they would, given how they always have an oven running. I went three and a half out of 10 on the wings.

Wow, okay. So I didn't hate them. It was bad, but the higher- I would say it's not good. Yeah. If four is the bottom is where average stops and not good begins. These are not good. We've got a disagreement here on the podcast. The biggest disturbing thing.

And look, it is a good thing that there was employee transparency, but just the revelation that yeah, somewhere along the way, they changed the process and now food arrives prepackaged in bags when they are a place that touted fresh ingredients, better ingredients, better pizza, which they still have as their slogan. But their pizza is not better. It's not better. And it never was even when the ingredients were. I mean, maybe John, because, you know,

John tried it again and he said it was different. So I don't know, maybe it was better. Maybe it was. Maybe it was. And even the guy that was working there said, you know, we used to make better pizza for you guys. Speaking of used to, and this is just an observation, I don't really have an opinion on it.

Yeah. And it may just be Texas. Like when I was growing up, I always remember when I would see Papa John's, the pepperoni was underneath the cheese layer. Oh. As opposed to on top. They didn't do that here. No.

Yeah, weird. That's like, you would see like little chunks maybe sticking out from underneath, like an ingrown nail. Ooh. Or ingrown hair. Like an ingrown nail or ingrown hair like an ingrown hair. Yeah. But like. I don't know. It was just it was interesting. And I like the pepperoni to be on top because I don't like cheese.

I don't want that to be the prominent flavor. I want, you know, taste the meat to hit the taste buds first and then the cheese to be something I ignore. Pizza is the only thing I will eat melted cheese on. No nachos. No nachos. What about a cheesy, like a macaroni and cheese? No, macaroni and cheese grosses me out so much.

If you took a pizza and started folding it into a calzone and like sealing it, at some point I'd be like, I'm not gonna eat that. Even though I would eat it as a pizza. Cause you'd be eating the bread first in that case. I'd be eating the bread first, but I think there's something about knowing that there's like a gooey glob that's cooking and hot

waiting for me in the middle of cheese. What if you took a calzone and you cut it in half and then you inflate it? I don't think I would eat it then either. What if they told you it was pizza? I don't know. We'll have to trick you one of is the psychology thing? I'm like it's genuinely, I think if you offered me like a

$1,000 to eat a calzone. Yeah, I would probably just cry that I don't have the Mental ability to overcome that hurdle and like genuinely I like that's not a joke Hmm I think I would just struggle and be like I'm so stupid for not being able to do this and overcome that for a thousand dollars. If you were offered a role in a movie and the character had to eat it, and you had to actually take a bite.

I don't know. You don't know. I don't know. It would stress me out. Yeah. I don't like that I'm like this, but I am. Okay, you know who you are. This is my mental prison that I am in. Please bring bail money.

I'm saving with soup. They had displays up overhead that two of them were static and then a third one kept changing but two of the screens that it was changing to were copies of the other two screens. I don't know why those needed to be in the rotation. There were only four screens it was oscillating between, so you could cut two of those out and just get two. And then it was just moving way too fast. It was five to six seconds between each rotation. They had to wait for it to get back to, if you were like, oh, I didn't see the bottom half of this one.

But they all had their own preset like PowerPoint slide transition to where some of them, you don't see the bottom corner until like the last two seconds of it being on screen. And then it changes. And that was the case of one that had a warning label in the corner. They had a little salt shaker icon inside of a triangle.

And it was basically like anything with this icon, ordering that alone exceeds your daily intake value of 2300 milligrams of sodium. And having that much, it puts you at risk for stroke and heart disease. It was a build your own bowl, which is basically saying, look, you could do this very irresponsibly,

so we have to put this warning here because of you. You're the one to blame. And it felt a little, I don't think it was deliberate, but it did feel a little scheming to make it that that warning only appeared for two seconds. Out of all of them, it was the last screen and for the shortest amount of time. Yeah, it just kind of felt just kind of a bootleg

to see that, to see the screen students doing that. I'm like, it seems like they could just have a display or something. And then the footage of it was actually from a guy standing in a movie theater with a hand-held camcorder. Yeah. They just loaded that DVD in and that's what was playing. At one point, someone stood up and you see their silhouette as they walk off screen. A dark night or whatever.

Yeah. Yeah. There was extreme heat. Extreme heat. It was sweltering in there. Yeah. And also, when we first got there, kind of just a vibe that, we don't want you here. Yes. That was the initial vibe.

Yeah. So it was just unwelcoming. It was hot. Yeah. They were busy. They were overwhelmed by a big order. They were overwhelmed. Yeah.

And they were like, who are these guys? Yeah. We were standing around looking, and the guy, we didn't even ask to order yet. Yeah, and the guy was like, it's gonna be maybe a half an hour before we can even take your order. It didn't end up being that.

We actually ended up being able to order pretty quickly. But I think that, and this guy, we ended up having multiple positive interactions with after, but that first impression was very like come on guys Why are you here and like I get it? Yeah, I do a lot of times You just got to talk to these these people, you know, you got to just have conversations and then they're like, oh, yeah You're not it's like it's like for me doing shows. There's sound guys are always that way They always are confrontational and standoffish

because they're like, I've done this job for 20 years and you don't know what you're doing, but I do. That's the vibe. And then you talk to them and they're like, then they end up being okay. That's, that was what I feel like happened here. It was like, you proved yourself. Can you show me what a sound guy sounds like at his worst?

Oh yeah. You need to tune your saxophone. It's out of tune. Tune it. Hey, are you using a DI box? You're not using a DI? Well, I got to get one from the back, I guess. All right. Well, and then- Then you talk to them and they see you do your act, they see you in the rehearsal and they're like,

oh, that was actually kind of good. And then their voice comes back to normal. And they're like, oh man, you're pretty good. This is not at all indicative of the comedy that I do. It's better. It's better. This is such a toy box though. It is a toy box. Yeah, my partner, she hears what's going on It's better. This is such a toy box. It is a toy box. Yeah.

My partner, you know, she hears what's going on in the room. You know, the office. Yeah. It's all just, it's all play. But yeah, it's the same kind of thing. It's like we talk to them, tell them what the deal was, and they were like, here's two chairs.

And you guys can eat here. Yeah. Yeah. We talked to them, told them what the deal was, and they were like, here's two chairs, and you guys can eat here. Yeah. Yeah, so that was nice. Turned a corner. Yeah. But started a little standoffish. It started with like, earn my trust.

Yes. Earn my friendship. Yeah. And by the end, we were friends. We're having a poker night. Yeah. In just a few days. He's gonna become a subscriber, you said.

Yes. Yeah. To Herbalife. He did not say to me. But yeah so look I'm I don't know if I'm on record on this podcast but I I don't like the sun. Like I'm not an outdoorsy guy I don't like sweating. And this was just in direct sunlight, just coming in, beaten down. I know I said it was hot in there, but also it was like too bright. Yeah.

It's just an unwelcoming place to be. I'm a night owl. Yeah, you like the dark. The nighttime is for me. I like the darkness. I like to brood. Also a sign that said no public restrooms. Yeah.

Which is always just kind of, again, you're not welcome here. I actually, in a venue like this, understand it. Yeah. The walkway back there, you're walking by potentially hot pizza equipment. There's a lot of opportunity to contaminate or to injure yourself.

So in a place like this, I don't mind no public restroom. If you have a dining room, I do believe you are obligated to have a restroom. I think what it was for me was there were so many like warnings of like, we're not going to help you in this capacity or this capacity. Like you can't sit here, you can't, we don't take any bills over 20. That was, there was a sign for that. There was a, you should tip us.

There was like a bucket for that. Anyway, it became more welcoming as we, you know. Oh, also they didn't have any water. Yeah. It was soda only. Soda only. Which, and he had to ask one of the other guys Do we have we have water and he was like, what's that?

Yeah, he was like water so I ended up walking down to the corner to the 7-eleven to get myself The barkling water a big thing of water. Oh real. Yeah to uh to hydrate myself with For one of the employees was covered in what they called dust. I thought it was flour and he was like, no, no, no. Papa John's insists that we call it dust. This is like the compound that you use to like separate tortillas when you're cooking and stuff like that. So I just thought that was funny

that he's covered in dust. Another employee rode a bird scooter in right in like a motorized scooter that was one of the first things we saw from the door just threw to the back yeah in the employee area that's not good yeah it's funny bringing the outside inside yeah that doesn't belong in here you know let's talk about the worst thing. The pizza, the pizza. I mean, this is what you're supposed to have on law. Yeah. You're supposed to have better pizza.

It's worse pizza. That it's worse ingredients, worse pizza. Yeah. Really is what their slogan should be. It wasn't great. We just got a standard pepperoni pizza. Yeah. I dipped in the garlic sauce. You are not a sauce boy. Yeah. And I dipped in the garlic sauce. You are not a sauce boy. And I also have the garlic sauce under not good.

I just felt like it didn't taste good enough to justify how gross I felt eating it. Something about the texture of knowing I'm eating butter, it's like lobster with butter sauce, to me, overcomes the barrier of like this does taste good enough to justify the fact that this is just butter. Which like, I like butter,

but I just need a light coating of butter. Doused in butter is a bit much for me. Dipping in a vat of butter is, that's too far for my taste. Maybe if the pizza was better, but you're also, you have two subpar things happening at once. Yeah.

And so, yeah, it's like cafeteria level pizza. Like you're at the Natural History Museum and getting pizza there. Yeah, at their like little cafe that it's the only hot item they have. Right. And it's under a heat lamp for, how long's it been there?

I don't know. And just to preface, we got the classic style. We didn't get the New York style. We didn't go adventurous. We got the tried and true, the thing they hang their hat on, the thing that brought them to the dance and it wasn't very good.

Two out of 10 on the pepperoni pizza. My note I just wrote is, come on, you should be better. Yeah. That's what I wrote. I gave it a four out of 10 originally. Yeah. And then I thought about it and I was like, this place is a pizza place.

So the pizza should be better than the cinnamon pull apart, whatever it is. The pizza should be the best thing. The pizza should be the thing. It should be the thing. So that brought it down to a three. To a three. Yeah.

Yeah, deserved. And then the garlic sauce for me, I also gave a three. So it's like, it's not trash, but it's not good. Yeah. I don't know. It's just like, I feel like other places do it better. Maybe not garlic sauce, but utilizing garlic

in a pizza setting. I would prefer just like roasted garlic, which I know defeats the purpose of a pizza dipping sauce. But like, if I'm dipping my pizza in anything, it's probably gonna be like, I want the crust in marinara. Like I love that because it's just like, it's cohesive with the flavoring of pizza. Right. I know some people do ranch.

Oh, so gross. I'm not, yeah, I'm not into ranch with pizza. You probably have a lot of viewers that do that though. Thank you for assuming I have a lot of viewers. Oh, yeah. Yeah, that's it for me for the not good. Overall, I would put the food in not good. Yes.

As like a- As a bucket. As a bucket statement. Yeah. Yeah. We did in barf though. He didn't barf. Yeah, I am gonna go two thumbs down with the food though Like not even just one. Yeah, I don't like the food at Papa John's. Yeah Conversely the service at this store Then go one thumb up. Yeah. Yeah, instead of two thumbs instead of two thumbs

I don't know when I would give him two thumbs when I've eaten it like Mastro's and it's like yeah nicest service. You're comparing it to that Yeah, like on the grand spectrum of what service can be yeah I just don't think this can reach into two thumbs up even if they were very nice very accommodating It's like a Michelin star situation. Yeah, because there's only what like three you can have the max three Michelin stars Oh, yeah, right. So like what, like three, you can have the max three Michelin stars. Oh, yeah, yeah. Right? So like, I feel like you need more of a spectrum for this place because one feels, only one feels bad.

There was also the opening, like unwelcomingness. That's true, that's true. Yeah, I'm gonna one thumb it too then I guess. Yeah, like that is part of the, there's the bird scooter. Yeah, you're right. There are service elements that aren't perfect. Yeah. But, and then, yeah, the decor is gonna be

the majority of what's just there. That'll get zero thumbs from me, so let's, do you have any more that's not good? No. All right, let's talk about everything that was just there. This is a weird one. I'm not quite sure what to say about it. Uh, yeah, this is for the stuff that is just there.

Yeah, so they had a word cloud on the wall that was just like pizza ingredients. John, you know, the words that associate with it literally felt like those things that would go viral from like Here are all the things that were said the most on your Facebook right here or whatever Yeah, it's just like I didn't talk about the Patriots that much Did I or you know something like that right or in my case? It would be like I didn't mention Stone Cold Steve Austin that much did I you probably did I probably did yeah but yeah, I don't know it felt a

Low effort but interesting enough and you put it on top of a bright red coat of paint that for some reason I just really liked the vibrancy of it It reminded me of Chipotle just a little brighter like cuz I feel like they would do the word cloud thing too But they would do a maroon. Yes color. Yeah, less less bright So, you know, that's a thing, I guess. They had a cloth tapestry on the wall that was shaped like a window. I felt like that would, for me, it was more bad than okay. Okay.

Because, well, keep going. I'm sorry, that's abrupt. Yeah, well, just to describe it, it's basically like this metal framing that's like, you know, like the top of what would be like a window and the bottom of what would be like a window, and then just a cloth hanging in between of Pizza World. Bright pepperoni pizza on like a white backdrop. And it was just, it was silly in a way. They just got a place, like they didn't need to put anything there.

They didn't need to put anything there and they did put that there. And then you were like, was that sent from corporate or was this like they took their own initiative because it looked kind of that like slapdash. Right. Yeah. We got this on Amazon and this will order some more pizzas for us.

The thing is like the whole idea is you're ordering to go. Mm-hmm. Right? So it kind of doesn't matter what the decor. Right. Like they don't matter what the decor. Like they don't need to add stuff to make it look better really. Yeah, cause it's not going to.

It's not going to, yeah. And like, I don't know, it feels a little gross that it's made of cloth because the instinct when something is cloth is that people come over and touch it. Wipe their pizza fingers on it. And it's just like, oh, well, now it's just all that. But the ridiculousness of it, I enjoyed,

therefore it balances out to just there. That's my justification for it. I got you. They also had a clock in the back that was just not even close. No, it was working. Like the seconds hand was ticking one second at a time. But it was like six hours off or something.

Six hours and 17 minutes off. At 11.59 a.m., it said it was 6.16 or something like that. And the employee said, yeah, we're trying to get a digital one. It's like, what do you mean trying? Yeah, just get just a... You're clearly not high priority on the Papa John's update list

because all the stuff inside was still using the old logo. Oh, was it? And the sign outside had the green border around it, whereas Papa John's got rid of the green in their logo. It's literally just a red Papa John's. I didn't know that. Yeah. And there's no apostrophe anymore, right?

That's the other thing? That's the logo. Oh. That's it. Yeah, they don't have the green box. Or whatever it was. So yeah, and then fake brick walls. Right. Sure, I guess, I don't know.

There was a delivery person there that after we banged on it to see if it was real or not. Went over and touched it and then gave us a wink. Yeah, he was like, nope, not real. He's like, yeah, we just did that. Yeah. Also, you work here. No, he didn't. I don't think he worked.

I think he was a DoorDash guy. Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, that they were soft and doughy, but a little too goopy for me. The actual, like it was like too soft? Like the stuff around it, like the butter drizzle I see. And all that. Also, I could tell it had like Parmesan on it and I wasn't really not into that. So that might be my own personal taste, but I do love

garlic knots, but when you're putting cheese on it it does ruin it. But yeah, there's just like a texture thing to it, kind of like with the wings where it was like, yeah, the taste is okay, but something about the way we got here feels off. I did give it a five out of 10, though. So like, it's fine for me. Where do we put...

When we were talking with them and we asked them what they thought of the pizza, how does that fit in there? I don't know. I mean, like, because the interaction was pleasant. Right. But what they said. But the information was not good on Papa John's. Right.

So I guess I'd put it in just there. Just there. To balance those things out. Yeah. We asked them and one of them was like, oh, I love the deep dish at Pizza Hut. Pizza Hut, yeah. And the other one was like, I'm a Domino's guy. And I was like.

He also mentioned that he doesn't even, if he is gonna get pizza there, he doesn't get the pizza. He gets, there's like a foldable, almost taco-esque. Oh, the pappardia? Pappardia, yeah. And that's what he, that's his go-to. Yeah. So I just thought the fact that they were endorsing

other pizza, despite the fact that they were endorsing other pizza, despite the fact that they get employee discounts and like, you know, and it may be an element of knowing how the sausage is made, but I imagine if you work in a pizza place, you kind of have that insight for all of them. It's not just the one you work at that it opens your eyes to. So I think that their preferences are almost even more valid. You also mentioned we have a map.

And you can see on the map, dominoes is everywhere, man. Dominoes is everywhere. Yeah, he was like, we can see our competitors, and there's so many dominoes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, is that everything? Yeah, I can't think of anything else.

I think we've covered everything for our discussion. So we need to put all of these considerations into a number score to get a rating for Papa John's. But before we do that, Nick, this is your first time on the fine dining podcast. You have not been to the dearth of restaurants that I have been to on this journey. And, uh, you know, I recently found chilies to be the perfect measuring stick against which everything can be compared. If something's better than chilies, it's good.

If something's worse than chilies, it's not good. Okay. Objectively so, but even with the middle calibrated, I need to know for you what's on the far end, your zero and your 10. So we're gonna jump into this week's Calibration Station. Yeah! Yeah!

Calibration Station, comparing this meal to the best or the worst. Calibration Station, chugger, chugger, chugger, because I don't want them to get in trouble. Okay. But there is a place that has a lot of people that are not gonna be able to get in trouble. So, I'm gonna say, I'm gonna say,

I'm gonna say, I'm gonna say, I'm gonna say, I'm gonna say, I'm gonna say, I'm gonna say, I'm gonna say, I'm gonna say,

I'm gonna say, I'm gonna say, I'm gonna say, I'm gonna say, I'm gonna say, I'm gonna say, I'm gonna say, I'm gonna say, I'm gonna say, I'm gonna say, I'm gonna Okay. I'm gonna say, and I'm not gonna name the place because I don't want them to get in trouble.

Okay. But there is a place that has a restaurant and a hotel. And I went there for a weekend and they asked you, are you allergic to anything? You have any allergies or anything? Oh no, this is a bad start. And I said, yeah, I have a nut allergy. I'm allergic to pretty much every single nut

except for peanuts and almonds. Great. They asked me two more times, are you allergic to anything? And I said, I already told you guys, but yeah, this is it. This is it. It's on file, I'm sure. And then in the morning they do like a bed, like they bring breakfast to you.

Yeah, breakfast and bed. And so the person I was with at the time was like, wow, this is really amazing. It was like a pastry of some sort. And she's like, you gotta try this. And I was like, I took a bite and I was like, hmm, this is really good. I think there's walnuts in this.

And then I opened it up and there's like a walnut like that, that big. And I've gone to the hospital like a bunch because of my not allergies. And so I was like, I'll be okay. I spit it out. I was like, I'll be okay. And then within the next 15 minutes, started getting hives under my armpits and my groin. And I was like, I think I might need to go to the hospital.

Then I started throwing throwing up and- Is it like an EpiPen that fixes it? It should if I was smart enough to bring one. Yeah. Anyway, we told them three times and they still gave us something. That's a big ball to drop. That was a pretty big thing.

So I had to go to the hospital. I was having trouble breathing. How did you sound? I didn't sound like anything because I couldn't breathe. I was just like, I was having trouble breathing. How did you sound? I didn't sound like anything because I couldn't breathe. Oh, just like. Yeah, it was it was it was a really bad experience. And I won't say their name because I again, like after that, they were very apologetic and they paid for the hospital bill

and they paid for like us to come back another time. But you just you know, I almost died. So I guess that that would give me a zero. A zero out of 10 for almost dying. Yep. All right. And then your 10. And then my 10, I may be biased, but I think the best restaurant I've ever been to

is here in LA, that's Osteria Mozza. Okay. My partner actually works there as a server, but aside from that, just excellent service. Every dish is incredible. That I don't I've never liked octopus. And they just prepare it in such a way that it's like just crazy good. Their fatuta is very good.

That's a bread, right? It's a bread. Yeah, it's like a garlic bread. And it's just every time I bring somebody there, I'm like, you got to get this. But they're like, that's just bread. I was like, get it. And then they hold on. Yeah, it's just bread. I was like, get it. And then they, hold on.

Yeah. It's just bread? Am I living in a world where I'm the only one who like, that's the must. Yeah, right. I think because there's so many other things that you're trying to save room for, you're like, well, I don't know if I wanna fill up on bread,

but this is, have you been to Ostre and Mozza? Yeah. I've only been to cheese paca of that like sweet. Okay, they might and they they have a good great focaccia. Yes. Yeah anyway, incredible meal great dessert Nancy Silverton is a genius and Yeah, check it out if you get the chance. Okay well somewhere between the best bread and amazing culinary experience and dying...

Yeah. ...lies Papa John's. Right. And right in the middle of those, Chili's. So we're going to put it to the chilies test as we go into our final rating segment. Papa John's to you. Is it between chilies and death or Chili's and Osteria Mozza?

I always say Chili's and Death. Yep. Yeah. Tell me about it and give it a number. Yeah, I'm just going to say, you know, I didn't barf, so that's good. Just that guy on Yelp was not so lucky. Very subpar. Just a very subpar pizza experience.

Just kind of experience overall. Like all of my points are from how pleasant the staff was to us. If that's the case, then there's something that's wrong with the food. Right. You know what I mean? Right. So I'm gonna give it a 3.74.

3.74. You are a much more generous individual than I am. I was just so like, yeah, come on. The pizza should be at least solid. Yeah. And it wasn't, and like, look, it should be at least a five. At least.

As someone who doesn't like cheese, I do recognize that Papa John's probably does have the highest ratio of cheese to other things. I can barely taste tomato sauce on a Papa John's pizza. And to me, that's the part of the flavor that I like most. It's the bread and the tomato sauce together. And then whatever the toppings are, I always like a pepperoni or some sort of meat,

but I like the interplay between those ingredients. And then cheese for me should be nothing more than an adhesive to hold this thing together. I don't really want to taste it. And this is personal preference. But given that it is so cheesy, given the loaded nature of the brand that I have with some of their controversies and stuff like that, I just, I'm not rooting for Papa John. Right.

I'm really just, I'm not, uh, the staff was very pleasant, uh, a good dessert. And then subpar, uh, like mediocre at best for everything else. So for me, Papa John's gets a 2.48. So yeah, I mean, it's pretty not great. I'm not gonna go again. Yeah. Like it's just- You weren't won over.

If I am in a town where the only pizza place is Papa John's, I'm probably driving to the next town regularly to get my pizza fixed. Yeah. I just am. Papa John's not worth going to. And when you put your score together with my score, Papa John's is going up on the Chachki of mediocrity

at a 3.11. Wow. Here we are, folks. 3.311, right? 3.311 is one-one-hundredth worse than Shakey's. Wow, I haven't had Shakey's. On the scale of this podcast, at least. And yeah, I didn't like my Shakey's experience either. It's a pretty depressing buffet. And, uh, yeah, I didn't like my Shakey's experience either.

It's a pretty depressing buffet. Oh, they have a buffet there at Shakey's? They have a buffet at Shakey's and buffet food. I think I think people romanticize the idea of it without ever realizing just in practice, it's rarely actually good. Right. Unless you're in like a casino. Right. I was going to say Vegas buffets,

they're great. They do it well. A Shakey's buffet beats Papa John's? Yeah, wow. Yeah. I could tell you didn't like it. What this means, Papa John's officially not as good as Chili's.

Not as good as Chili's. Objectively not so good. So Papa John's, we have now determined its fate. There is still such a wonderful spectrum of restaurants that I have yet to try. And next week, I'm going to try another one to compare to Chili's. So I'm going to go another one to compare to Chili's. So I'm going to go into the You Must Bowl. Wow.

I'm going to dig out another restaurant to see where I'm going to go next time. If I guess it right, do I win a prize? Nope. Okay. Next week, what's your guess? Big boys? If I guess it right, do I win a prize? Nope. OK. Next week, I am, what's your guess? Big boys? I've already done it. You did it.

Next week, I am going to. Dunkin' Donuts. Or is it just Dunkin' now? Have you done an episode about the fried chicken restaurant Raising Canes? No? about the fried chicken restaurant raising canes? No? I do magic everybody. So if you wanna hire me for your birthday party.

For those of you listening. 1-800-MAGICMAN. For those of you just listening, he just produced a magic wand that rose up his hand somehow. He raised a cane. I raised a cane. So you'll have to watch the video to. I'm not gonna let you plug your socials.

You've been, you're being puny. No, Nick, thanks for coming with me. Yeah, thank you for having me. Thanks for coming on. You can check me out at DJRealSmells on Instagram or DJRealSmells.com. I also have a website called ParkHub.org, which you can check out.

It's not safe for work. And I came out with a new special that just came out the end of last year called Why Won't You Dance With Me? Check it out on YouTube. Yeah, I have in normal speed twice. And then you can follow this show on Instagram, TikTok, and Blue Sky, that's at Fine Dining Podcast,

or in the case of Blue Sky, fine dining podcast.bsky.social. Head on over to my Patreon for an exclusive episode every single month. This month, I'm not sure what I've got going on, but I've recently done episodes on Jersey Mike's, Blaze Pizza, Halal Guys, and A&W, which will be a part of this year's

Septemberger Tournament. So yeah, go on there. And then if you want, join my Discord server. You can find the link for that in the description of this episode or on the landing page of my website. That's finediningpodcast.com. And you can go join the conversation.

We just, we have fun talking about the podcast, about food, about our experiences with restaurants. And more importantly, genuinely, I feel like I'm making friends there. It's a, it's a very, uh, nice place full of nice people. I'll play us out if you want the search for mediocrity concluded, but I still have to compare so many places to chilies. I'll see you next week. Have a fine day! I've had such a fun time. Thanks for having me. Have a fine day!