Fine Dining - Subway’s Disturbing History: Jared, The Infinite Destroyer, & Azodicarbonamide

Episode Date: February 19, 2025

Subway’s history is WAY messier than you think. Sure, it’s the biggest fast-food chain in America, but behind the Eat Fresh™ branding lies a disastrous past filled with lawsuits, bizarre marketing stunts, and yes… Jared Fogle. In this episode, Terral Wells joins me to uncover Subway’s wildest moments, from its humble beginnings as a way to fund med school to the time they got sued because their footlongs weren’t actually a foot long. Oh, and did you know there’s a Subway fashion show? Or that you can order something called the Infinite Destroyer sandwich in Tokyo? We’re going deep. "Fine" Dining is now on video! Head on over to my YouTube to WATCH this episode! WHAT WE COVER IN THIS EPISODE: 🥖 Subway’s origins – A sandwich shop meant to pay for med school? 👖 The pants should’ve been the spokesperson – Jared Fogle & the brand’s biggest scandal 🛑 The Subway that almost made me throw my soiled shorts at an employee 🥪 Project Subway Fashion Show – Who asked for this?? 💀 The Infinite Destroyer sandwich (only in Japan!) ⚖️ A lawsuit over 11-inch ‘footlongs’ – The most ridiculous scandal ever 🤡 Marketing gimmicks & chaotic Subway history 🏆 Terral’s dream restaurant – A chain designed for gamblers (yes, really) ⭐ Unhinged Yelp reviews – Subway employees doing too much for minimum wage 💬 COMMENT BELOW: What’s the worst experience you’ve ever had at a Subway? 📢 SUPPORT THE SHOW & JOIN THE COMMUNITY: 🔥 Patreon (Bonus episodes & extended Yelp reviews!): https://www.patreon.com/c/finediningpodcast 💬 Discord (Talk chain restaurants & share horror stories!): https://discord.gg/6a2YqrtWV4 🔗 All links in one place: www.linktree.com/finediningpodcast ⚡ Like, Subscribe & Share if you enjoy deep dives into fast-food disasters! 👉 NEXT WEEK: We eat at Subway. Pray for us. 🚊🥪 Patreon Producers: Joyce Van, & Sue Ornelas

Subway Eat Fresh isn't just a slogan, it's a challenge. When an Irish court deems that your bread has too much sugar to be legally categorized as a staple food, something's gone wrong in your campaign to be seen as healthy. But what started as an excuse to pay for the founder's medical school has become the single most widespread restaurant in all of the United States. America runs on Dunkin? Get the f*** out outta here with that. This is subway country, baby.

Need proof? Adam Sandler prominently featured it in one of his movies. In Happy Gilmore, he gets a ton of money hawking a fresh, delicious, tasty, meaty, turkey-filled... Cold-cut combo. I eat three every day to help keep me strong. Talk about a hole-in-one. And sure, processed deli meats aren't exactly healthy, but we go along with it because hey, at least it's not deep-fried. Perhaps an indictment of how much we're screwing

up our insides, Subway's prominence is actually correlated to its comparatively healthy and affordable offerings. And Subway markets themselves with that exact paint-by-numbers approach. Literally, the company's freaking swimming in numbers. The seven under six campaign, the $5 footlong, the $6 footlong, the 699 footlong, and who could forget 15 years, eight months with a 13 year minimum for good behavior.

You heard me right, a devastating blow to Subway's legacy, weight loss miracle and brand spokesperson Jared Fogle did some reprehensible things, and while I really don't want to talk about them, he's forever linked to the restaurant and therefore a necessity when discussing their history. So how exactly did Subway become the sandwich juggernaut we see today? Stay tuned because I'm going to go into it and so much more. This is the Fine Dining Podcast. Your table is ready, take a seat. The flavor of the day is mediocrity.

Wouldn't you like to try a pie? Guarantee it'll be the perfect pie. Fine dining, better than you thought, worse than you hoped. Guarantee it'll be the perfect five Fine tiny Better than you thought, worse than you hoped Fine tiny We don't treat media per ad to joke Breaking every single place we've been Looking for the perfect five out of ten

What's up about the medical school thing? He's a doctor? Did he become a doctor? He was 17 years old. I'll go into it, but he was 17 years old when he opened it. And the whole point was, oh, let me open a sandwich shop to raise money to go to med school. But did he go to med school?

Inconclusive. Oh, that's awesome. Yeah. I don't know. I mean, Subway, it's like it's huge. I don't know if at some point you're like, I have a business that's more successful than anything I'm ever going to do in the medical field. And you're saving more people.

Not true. Hello, and welcome to the Fine Dining Podcast, the search for the most mediocre restaurant in America. I'm your host, Michael Ornelas, and this is the show where I'm looking for the precisely in the middle dining experience, the perfect five point double zero out of ten, because only once you know what's directly in the center, can you tell what's good or not good by comparison. This is part one of my series on Subway. So today we'll be covering the disastrous history of the chain before heading over to

Yelp and seeing what the locals think of the one we went to. And then of course, you can come back next week to hear our personal accounts of grabbing lunch there today. My guest today is a close personal friend of mine making his return to the podcast after reviewing KFC with me all the way back in December of 2023 for a Patreon episode. He keeps me humble, the personification of dry wit, it's my friend Terrell Wells. Hey great to be here. How's it going? That's pretty good. I'm waiting for my challenge coin as a returning guest.

I prefer to go with like a jacket or something. Oh, that would be cool. But it's like SNL. You got to get the five timers clubbed first. Okay, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, thanks for coming with me to Subway. Yeah, you owe me for that.

Which you told me while we were there that this specific Subway, it's the one that's like right between where we live. It's really near me, huh? Was one that you had vowed to never return to, which tees me up perfectly to what I normally ask right now. What's your personal history with Subway, both growing up and your current relationship with it? Yeah, so I mean, I don't think it's anything too interesting, but when I was a kid, I really with Subway, both growing up and your current relationship with it.

Yeah, so I mean, I don't think it's anything too interesting, but when I was a kid, I really liked Subway. I'm a big sandwich guy, you know, sandwich probably one of my favorite, I don't know, broad categories of food. Yeah, yeah. I liked it less and less as I got older and- Once you start tasting other better sandwiches

or like what, maybe a mom and pop shop where they cook with love as opposed to a formula. It's definitely that. I also just think that the quality may be declined in my opinion. But I'm a pretty lazy person. Like we were saying, that subway is like a block for me.

It's very close. It's probably technically the closest restaurant to my apartment other than like there's a Dunkin' Donuts. It's very close. It's probably technically the closest restaurant to my apartment other than like there's a Dunkin Donuts. So I went there. It was like after the pandemic was like 2021. It had been a while since I've been to Subway. And I have this thing where I go. There was no food in the house. I didn't want to go to grocery shopping. I was extremely starving. Like I waited until it was like 3pm and I hadn't eaten. So I was like, fine, I'll just go to Subway. And the sandwich I got there was so awful.

It was beyond what I didn't have high expectations. It was beyond that. It was so bad that I just said, that's it. Everyone's right in what they say about Subway. I'm never going back there. Specifically that one, but it was just, I just haven't been to Subway at all since then. It's never a desirable option,

and just given that I can choose other things, I never end up at Subway. I think it's probably been two years. The last time I was in a Subway, I was in Seattle for Pokemon Go Fest, and there was a lot of walking through like downtown Seattle. And there was this. There's so much food in Seattle, like seafood and everything like.

I didn't eat there. This is just an experience at a subway. And I ended up in this block where for the most part, it's residential. It's a lot of apartment buildings or, you know, towers or whatever and there just wasn't anywhere and I all of a sudden just had to pee worse than I've ever had to in my life and the only thing nearby that had a restroom was a subway and I went in there and the guy behind the counter I was like excuse me where's your restroom? Didn't even look up. Like I wasn't even human, never made eye contact with me.

Restrooms for customers only. I was like, I'll buy something after. I have to pee now. Restrooms for customers only. And he just kept repeating. He wouldn't let you go. He would not let me. There was like a line of like four people in front of me

so I couldn't have like hopped in line. Cause you know that feeling when you like walk through the threshold of your home when you have to go to the restroom and your body starts being like, okay, like I'm about to get ready to go to the restroom. If I'm standing there in that line, like I would have peed in my pants for sure.

And so I mentioned in the, when we were at Subway, I was like, I almost did something that would have changed me on a fundamental level, but I didn't. I was the closest I've ever been to just like, I thought I was going to pee in my, in my shorts. And if I did, I think I would have taken them off and thrown them at the guy. I was that livid that one, I just wasn't getting eye contact from him. Like I w I just wasn't being acknowledged or seen as a human.

And like I ended up being able to hold it, walked a few more blocks, found a coffee shop that was very friendly, and they were like, yeah, go ahead. Yeah, and that made Subway a mortal enemy of mine. And I know it's just one kind of asshole of an employee, but that can paint an experience. For sure.

That's what I think of Sub of subway is almost throwing soiled shorts Or at least fantasizing about what it would be like to do that. Yeah, but then I think of like tick-tock videos I've seen we're like, you know, someone gets in a fight at a Panera and they like, you know Take a dump on the floor and throw it. It's not like yeah, I monkey tactics monkey tactics and It's not like, yeah. Monkey tactics, monkey tactics. And, uh, you know, the only thing that separates us from them is not indulging in those pants.

Anyways, so that's my history with subway. That's your history with subway. Do you want to hear the history of subway? I would love to. All right. We're going to jump into this week's eat deets. Hey everyone, before we jump into the episode, I just wanna say I have a blue sky now

at Fine Dining Podcast and also a Discord server. So head into the description of this episode or go to my website and you can find the link and the invite to that and we'll have a good time. You can talk about places you wanna see me go next. We'll talk September girl predictions. You can post food pictures. You can talk about places you want to see me go next. We'll talk September girl predictions. You can post food pictures. But my favorite thing that I want to do is bring back the

what's going on over there segment with your stories that you've had while dining at chain restaurants. So come join me. I'd love to see you there. Have a fine day. Eatery Details In August 1965, 17-year-old Fred DeLuca asked family friend Dr. Peter Buck for a $1,000 loan which he used to open a sandwich shop in Bridgeport, Connecticut called Pete's Super Submarines. They sold 312 sandwiches on their first day.

Oh, so it was named after the doctor. Yeah. Okay. Which is very odd to me. Why wouldn't it just be like, Hey, can I borrow money? I'll name it after you. Like, I think it would be funny if it was conditional. Like the adult was like, yeah, I'll give you a thousand bucks, but

you got to name it after me. Fair enough. But yeah, I don't understand what's wrong with his name. I don't know. They sold 312 sandwiches on their first day, which I guess when I think of like a lunch rush at a restaurant, like that's still even by today's standards sounds pretty, pretty solid for a day, especially if it's like your first day, right?

I honestly have no idea. I mean, how many is that per hour? That's, you know. Eight hour day. Sounds like a lot. It's like 40 an hour. Yeah. A little under 40 an hour.

That's not bad. It seems. That's almost one a minute. Sure. Respectable. After a series of radio ads for Pete's Submarines, confused listeners, mistaking the name for Pizza Marines,

they shortened the name to Pete's Subway. Okay, I would have been more, I thought they would, it was some kind of like military weapons, like you buy submarines there, I don't know. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, that is true. When I think, like I think of them as sandwiches or subs. Yeah. I know they are submarine sandwiches But it does when I hear submarines my first thought is not a saying it would be weird to me

If you if you're gonna say the full word if you're gonna say submarine you have to say sandwich after it You can't just say I'm gonna go get a submarine right, but you can't say so yeah, you can say so yeah Yeah, I think submarine just has too proper of a, or too close of a connotation, not even connotation, it is what it is. Right. And it's just not gonna replace that. And then in 1968, they shortened it to just Subway.

So Pete's Super Submarines to Pete's Submarines to Pete's Subway to Subway. Pete was really insistent on keeping his name for a while. I mean, I'm on his side, to be honest. I think Subway is a little generic. But it was changed to Subway to reflect speed and efficiency, which I don't know. You know, that reminds me of the Zippy's

that was named after the zip code. In Hawaii? Yeah, yeah. I never ended up going Hawaii. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I never ended up going there. Oh, okay. I when I went to Hawaii, I ended up instead of doing zippy's did cheeseburger in paradise. Right.

But there is a zippy's in Las Vegas. So okay, which the fifth island, the eighth island, the eighth island, of course. Oh, wait a few more decades. You never know. Oh, God. That's good. few more decades, you never know. Oh God. That's good, solid. Climate change, it's real. Franchising started in 1974, rapidly expanding its reach. The first store struggled with visibility and competition,

but their innovation of toasting bread set them apart. No. No way. You reject that? That's ridiculous. Just inherently no. They didn't toast that deli's back then? I guess not. That seems hard for me to believe.

Well, because like, first of all, I think Quiznos when I think of like, like when your slogan is, mm-mm-mm-mm-mm toasty, like that's what sticks in my head. I've never thought of Subway. I've always thought of the toasting as optional not like a signature see I I disagree I think it's absurd that they even ask you if you want it toasted at Subway I've never heard of anyone not getting it like when they say do you want it toasted? I've never heard anyone say nah Yeah, so I it seems like Kind of one of those non choices. It's like yeah, of course. I want it toasted. Yeah. No, I agree like oh

Do you want it worse? Well. Oh, I don't know. I'll have it a little better. When I was a child, toasted was out of my comfort zone. I was just used to like the sandwiches that your parents would put in your lunch bag at school.

And so then they take you to a sub-restaurant for the first time and they're like, it's like sandwiches and I've not had anything like it before. I want it to taste familiar in some ways. So I wasn't warming it up. And then as I grew up and're like, it's like sandwiches, and I've not had anything like it before. I want it to taste familiar in some ways, so I wasn't warming it up. And then as I grew up and was like, oh, what am I doing?

Warm bread is so much better than cold bread. But I had to be eased into toasted subs. Yeah, well, kids have all sorts of weird hangups about food. So that's, but I'm just talking to a normal person. I mean, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I'm just seeing it through the lens of when I first experienced it, which was as a child.

Yeah. Subway's seven under six campaign highlighted low fat options, gaining traction during the health conscious 1980s and 90s culminating in the now infamous Jared Fogel Subway Diet, which created its healthy reputation. Here's the thing though. It wasn't really the subway that caused him to lose weight. It its healthy reputation. Here's the thing, though. It wasn't really the subway that caused him to lose weight.

It was the walking. It was the walking. He would walk to his local subway and then, you know, do the seven under six thing. So, you know, good for them or whatever. And I just I always remember the commercial with the pants. Yeah. Yeah. No, he went on tour with those, I know. With the pants. Yeah. Like literally go to like schools and stuff with the pants like this is what I used to wear Love the pants people clap for the pants. I would argue that the pants should have been the the spokesperson

Especially with hindsight being 2020 just take the pants would have been an equal amount of charisma in my opinion Yeah, we'll talk about Jared a little bit more later. Global expansion began in 1984 with the first international store in Bahrain, of all places. Okay. I can't point at it on a map. I got to be honest. I could tell you the shape of its outline after I looked it up when finding that fact to be like, wait, is that a city or a country?

Give me the continent. Give me the region. Western Asia. Okay. Like Southwest Asia. It's like an island, basically the Middle East. Okay. Yeah.

Well, I'm good for them. I think. Or did it say East Asia? There's no way it's East. Just more examples of America's violence against the Middle East. What? Inflicting a subway. Putting subway.

Yeah. Subway adapted to local markets offering vegetarian options in India and sushi inspired sandwiches in Japan. I'd like to try that. If you look at Subway in Japan, just like the pictures of the offerings, they've got sandwiches loaded with shrimp. They've got a lot of different offerings than what we have here that mostly seem novel more than like, oh, that would be really good. I mean, I like like a shrimp po' boy

if it's something like that. But I was gonna say, but I do think it would be solid. Right. And I have my favorite fact I found in all of the Eat Eats. I'm saving for just a little bit, but it is also about Subway in Japan. Okay. Eat Fresh became Subway's iconic slogan.

Partnerships with the American Heart Association and endorsements from athletes boosted its health-focused brand image. So funny to me. I don't know, like you're gonna eat where an at, or like Michael Jordan tells you to. It, look, it does work. It's so funny to me. I don't know. Like you're gonna eat where an ant, or like Michael Jordan tells you to. Look, it does work. Like when you see someone who's in the best shape

of their lives telling you, hey, I eat at this place. Do you wanna look like me? There is a part of your lizard brain that does create that attachment. It's bullshit. Like it's not, Michael Jordan does not eat Simone Biles Michael Phelps they don't eat at subway

Regularly, I'm willing to bet well I don't know those they have to consume like three thousand four thousand calories a day or whatever to keep up with their workouts So maybe they're just they've got private chefs There's no way that they don't have a nutritionist managing out all that stuff, and Subway does not fit into that. That would be crazy. Sure, they're live. Happy Gilmore on the other hand.

I could see Adam Sandler eating at a Subway, for real. Adam Sandler loves fast food. I watched a compilation of all of the restaurants that have just gotten free product, I don't know about free, but gotten product placement in his movies. And it's like in Little Nicky, he loved Popeyes. There's a random KFC joke in grownups.

There's like a sit, just a passing Cinnabon handoff in, I think it's bedtime stories, like a Disney movie that he did. Eight crazy nights, there's like coffee bean and tea leaf, Dunkin Donuts, Sboro, and Panda Express. He's a man of the people. He's a man of the people. Wendy's and Big Daddy, and Mr. Deeds,

McDonald's and Big Daddy. Wendy's is a big part of Mr. Deeds. Hooters and Big Daddy. Yeah. It's all over the place. Anyway, sorry, I got lost in the Sandler verse. Yeah, those endorsements, I guess they work because people do them, but I gotta be honest, I don't I don't know. They've never clicked with me

Yeah, well, you're you're on another level. I mean, I'm not it's not like that. I just I don't know I don't get it. I don't get the appeal you're on a different wavelength from the rest of us You're better with your little collared shirt poking out of your dressed up You did dress up very nicely and I wear a t-shirt socks and sandals But I did put on jeans for you to the point where you're like, I don't know when I've the last time I've seen Well, they acid washed I like them. I like soft clothing I do so if I can get away with sweatpants or sweatshorts, I'm gonna do it. I'm just gonna Sustainability efforts included cage-free eggs, reduced waste.

What's the enforcement of that? To be like, oh, we're reducing our waste. Is that just telling employees like, That's just you can't use the bathroom. Customers only. And eco-friendly menu choices. Subways Make It What You Want initiative highlighted local sourcing and plant-based options. That's great. I don't know. Yeah.

I mean Make It What You Want also feels like they're just stealing from Burger King. It does feel like Subway is a little more of a natural fit for like plant-based stuff than say Burger King. You know? Right. When you hear an Impossible Burger at... is Burger King the one that does the Impossible? Yeah, they started it. Yeah, or they were the first one. Yeah that I know of. Yeah, it makes a little more sense not just because of their eat fresh thing, but it's like, okay there are a lot of sandwiches you'd have tofu or something like that on it. It makes a little more sense to me then but like if you're going to a Burger King, you know looking for a vegetarian vegan option, it's kind of like you're at a place with burger in the name. Yeah with Subway because like

vegan option. It's kind of like you're at a place with burger in the name. Yeah, it was Subway because like vegetables are a natural thing that you'll put on a sandwich anyways. Right. Do a sandwich of just vegetables and maybe some seasonings and sauces. Not crazy. Subway serves about fifty three hundred sandwiches every sixty seconds, roughly three hundred and twenty thousand sandwiches every hour, according to a 2014 Business Insider report. I believe it. I mean the lady that gave us ours, she was moving pretty fast. She was pulling her weight. She was, but it took her like six minutes to make three sandwiches, so...

I don't know, I'm on her side on this. Well, we'll talk about it, like yeah, she's got two hands, you know? I think the process is inefficient. I'll talk about it next week. Yeah, like she was working hard for sure. But it definitely felt like there were steps in the in the chain that could have been merged. Maybe a 2012 study found that meals from Subway and McDonald's had similar calorie counts for young people, which I think means what young people are ordering specifically people are going to a Subway and getting the more fast foodie options instead of the healthier things.

I thought that was an interesting note to put for young people. It is a little surprising because just when you think of it, it is how you imagine Subway, you do imagine it to be. Well, you know, it's not healthy per se, but you would think it's a little better. Yeah. Then McDonald's. And honestly, hearing that fact kind of just gives people the green light to be like, well, screw it. I'm just going to go to McDonald's.

Exactly, right? Yeah. Because like, Subway is where you go when you want to feel like you're making the healthy decision. And if that illusion is out the window. Well, Subway is where I go when I'm trapped. Like, I used to work at a place in Marina Del Rey, and there was no restaurant within walking distance. So if I didn't bring my lunch,

it was Subway or I was skipping lunch. And, you know, I skipped lunch as often as possible, but every now and then I had to. I had to get some Subway. Yeah, that would bum me out. Just made the office experience even worse, you know? In 2013, Subway launched Project Subway, a New York fashion show challenging designers

to create Subway-themed garments. Most of the dresses resembled fashionable lettuce, but one designer turned a model into red cabbage. Oh. So I'll put these on screen. Terrell, describe what you're looking at. These are the runway photos from project subway. I mean, I'm just looking at a bunch of hideous dresses, I guess.

I don't know what to say. They all look like some form of lettuce though. Yeah, they really went all in on the lettuce motif here. One girl does have the subway logo in on the the lettuce motif here. One girl does have the Subway logo on like the like the folds. Oh you're right. Oh that's does not go well at all. I mean I you know I'm not a fashion critic but I don't think these designers have it. You are dressed like one though. Say no to the dress that's what I say about this. Subway was sued in 2013 after customers complained

about the foot long sandwiches measuring only 11 inches. Something you wanted to do. Yeah, I meant to do it, but I forgot it because I scarfed down my sandwich so quickly in an effort to get it over with. But yeah, well, I agree. You know, these people, these are the annoying people, right?

These are the people that go and like weigh the quarter pounder and stuff. Yeah, oh God, what, there was a- It was like Texas Roadhouse. Texas Roadhouse, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, the guy comes in and it's like auditing, you know, the meat and stuff. And look, like I don't wanna hang out with these people,

they're not gonna be my friends, but in the vast, you know, panoply of life, like the different colors of people, different varieties of people, you need these people, these stickler kind of... To hold accountable the powers that be. Big sandwich cannot be allowed

to make false claims. It's not cool. And like, there's no way it was like less than 11 inches. I'm sure it was close, just not a foot. It's done by machine, I assume. And so yeah, it's but anyways, I'm in support of just bothering, just bothering. Yeah, I think that's not a bad position to take.

Subway agreed to ensure its foot longs were 12 inches and paid five hundred and twenty thousand dollars in legal fees. Really? That's funny. Cost them half a million dollars getting caught skimping on the foot longs. Yeah, but you think about it, you're saving one-twelfth of a sandwich.

You gotta be making, on the cumulative end, you gotta be making more than, that's a slap on the wrist. They should be paying more. That's what I think yeah yeah they should have counted all of the footlongs sold up to that point eight percent of your profit for the last 20 years or whatever yeah that should be redistributed to the customers you've robbed them yes of an inch of sandwich yes which I would call a mercy well To eat one inch less of Subway.

I know it's the whole thing of and such small portions you know that joke. They're kind of doing us the favor. Yeah that's true. Subway bread previously contained azodicarbonamide an ingredient also used in yoga mats. Gross. Yeah. I don't know. Yep. Yep. It does. I feel like you could do some stretches on a big piece of subway bread. Yeah. More what I guess want to point out is I rehearsed pronouncing azodicarbonamide and it's like, you know when they say something's a thankless job? If I had gotten that word wrong, people would be jumping down my throat. But the fact that I got it right, it's like expected of

me. But I did the work and I want to be acknowledged for it. I think you did stick the landing. Thank you. You know, asking for praise afterward does undermine the achievement a little bit, but you know, we were talking about Simone Biles, like she does it, she bows, she walks off, you know? Yeah, I'd say that. She doesn't come back and be like, could you guys clap a little louder?

I think she should bow in the middle of it instead of at the end. I think it's kind of the same thing as what I'm doing. Okay, all right. Yeah. Subway uses 16 acres of lettuce per day, equating to approximately 12 football fields, according to a 2013 tweet. Meaning I presume they tweeted it. They're bragging of, hey, look how much we go through.

Look how much land we're raising. That's not how I would have measured lettuce, but I guess it makes sense. In acres? Yeah, in acres. I don't know. I would have done like heads of lettuce. How many heads of lettuce is that? I think the context of putting it in like a grand visual space, like specifically the football field comparison. I'm like, Oh yeah, I can visualize that like an acre. What's an acre? I know. I don't know.

In 2014, Subway produced 7.6 million subs daily, enough to feed everyone in Los Angeles, Dallas and Chicago combined. Wow, that's that is definitely a lot. They're moving a lot of product. But also all those cities have better food. So I think if they offered to feed all three of like Chicago and L.A. specifically, like I would just say no thanks. Well, in L.A. especially, you'd be like, yeah, we have enough yoga mats, so we're good. Zing! In 2015, Subway broke the Guinness World Record for the most people making sandwiches simultaneously with 1,481 participants at its annual convention. And I think the bigger

takeaway there is Subway has an annual convention. Yeah, that's crazy. I could break that record though if that's one that's easy to break because everyone knows how to make a sandwich. Do you think they have like a VIP level pass to Subcon? Oh yeah. You get extra, I don't know, prints of that weird art that was on the walls. I'm so excited to talk about that next week. It was confounding. There are nearly 38 million total combination options on Subway's menu. That's kind of like when you look at a Rubik's Cube and it's like, oh, there's like a quadrillion different. Yeah, but how many of those combinations are really in use? It's probably like, give me everything.

Give me everything except onions. That's it. That's all I know. Only three of them have ever been sold. Subway's classic BMT sandwich, originally named after the Brooklyn, Manhattan Transit system, now stands for Biggest, Mediast, Tastiest. I would think you should just sell that then.

If you're like, this is my best work. Yeah. Why you got all the other options then? Let me, well, it's biggest, right? It's not bestest tastiest. Oh, yeah, I guess. Tastiest would be the best. If your goal of the sandwich is not to be tasty, what is it?

Yeah, that makes sense. But believe it or not, that it's not the most aggressive sandwich name available at a subway at exactly one subway branch. The University of Tokyo faculty of engineering building to They serve a sandwich called the infinite destroyer which boasts an overwhelming 25 slices of roast beef Lesser versions are named simply the destroyer with 10 slices of beef the king destroyer with 15 slices of beef and the god

destroyer with 20 slices of beef and the God destroyer with 20 slices. That's incredible. It's so anime. Yeah. Like we are here to destroy God. 20 slices of roast beef with a sandwich. And like it served with wasabi and soy sauce. Genuinely looking at a picture of it other than just the quantity,

I would not get an infinite destroyer. That sounds like a crazy choice. But I'd get just a regular destroyer, 10 slices of roast beef, wasabi and soy sauce, made in Japan, toasted, actually sounds good. And roast beef is not common in Japan. Yeah, no, I'm surprised that it, yeah, roast beef's not my favorite, but like, you know, it sounds

good, I'll try it. I like the God Destroyer one. Yeah. That's the one that intrigues me more than Infinite Destroyer. But I do love that it's only available at the University of Tokyo Faculty of Engineering Building 2. Somebody called in a favor. Someone there is powerful beyond belief in a way that they are not letting on.

He's just going to counter like, no, more. Yeah, I want more. More. Yeah, keep it coming. No. Say when. Oh, you got to go to the back? Go to the back then.

Yeah, I need, bring me the cow. Yeah. It's my favorite fact that I found about Subway is knowledge of the Infinite Destroyer. It's an engineering marvel. Next time I go to Japan, I think I wanna try and go get the Infinite Destroyer. Just to do it.

Yeah, for sure. Okay, on to the not so fun stuff. In 2007, law enforcement began investigating Jared Fogle following a report released by journalist and radio host Rochelle Herman-Walrond. She claimed Fogel had made lewd comments to her regarding underage girls during a speaking tour.

Herman-Walrond kept both recordings and texts between them, later making them available to the FBI. This led to a four-year-long investigation where she befriended Fogel and recorded all of their encounters. During these encounters, he commented on engaging in sexual activities

with underage girls and even requested that Herman Walrond place webcams in her children's rooms so he could watch them. Disgusting. It's insane to know like the depths of or I guess like the the the bottom of what a what a human's impulses can be. Like when you're praying on children that's awful. It's crazy that the only reason we heard about this is because he's famous. Yeah. This is a this is a world that exists. Like famous. Yeah. This is a world that exists.

That's true. Unfortunately, the FBI could not use these recordings alone to form the basis of an investigation as they needed more substantive evidence. While investigating Russell Taylor, the head of the Jared Fogel Foundation, on separate charges of child exploitation, they discovered messages and images traded between Taylor and Fogel Foundation on separate charges of child exploitation, they discovered messages and images traded between Taylor and Fogel. They also found additional evidence during a raid that implicated Fogel directly.

Yeah, they were partners in it. Did you know a lot about this story beforehand? I, just a few years ago, I listened to a podcast that was about it and I was pretty surprised It's I think it's even worse than the average person knows, you know I mean the average person knows it's bad and knows kind of the broad strokes, but it's actually it's off It's very truly bad. Well, you hear you hear the headline of just like, you know, he's

Arrested with you know CP as they call it child pornography A raid was done on his home and he's doing jail time and subway drops him, like same day. That's kind of the only part of the public discourse that I knew. One, cause it's heinous, I don't necessarily want to know the details. Right, no, you really don't. Yeah, and to be convicted of it,

to have enough evidence there, you're not just dabbling, you know, you're like, you're entrenched in it. So yeah, it's, it's awful. On July 7th, 2015, the FBI and Indiana state police raided Fogel's home and arrested it on charges of distribution and receipt of CP. Subway announced their suspension of business with him the same day. After entering a plea deal, Fogel was convicted and sentenced to 15 years and eight months in prison with a minimum of 13 years barring good behavior.

He was also fined a total of $175,000 plus $50,000 in assets. Not enough. Yeah, I agree. I was actually really surprised when I realized, oh, we're only five years away from him getting out if he does like the max sentence. Yeah. So he could be out as early as 2028 on good behavior.

Yeah, I don't know what I think the sentence should be, but I do think 15 years absolutely feels like not enough. Since his incarceration, he has been the subject of other lawsuits from parents of victims, as well as legal action against Subway for allegedly covering up his activities, though the second was dismissed. Do you think Subway had any knowledge? I would imagine they didn't. I don't want to speak out of turn, but I believe that there is some anecdotal evidence. Is there really?

Yeah, well, I mean, not that they knew the full extent of it, but yeah. I mean, he was going on a lot of trips to like Southeast Asia with his partner and stuff. And I believe that there was. They could have pieced it together a little bit. One thing I learned from, you know, when I was researching it is how much money he really was making Subway.

Like the value of his endorsement. His story. Yeah, he was. He really was Subway. I mean, like, yeah, him alone, because his job or his role, it seems kind of like silly or kind of like he got really lucky You know, yeah, which he undoubtedly did but that his impact isn't the value of his marketing was actually pretty substantial Proveably, so I mean that would definitely

incentivize them Not dropping him on first knowledge His conviction was upheld by an appeals court in 2016 after a weak ass attempt to argue that his sentence improperly exceeded the recommended length under federal guidelines. Very on brand of him to insist that waiting 15 years is too long.

Yeah, that's funny. And that'll do it for this week's Eat Deets. I need a palate cleanser. So we're gonna get away from that. And before we go into the Yelp reviews, I'm gonna ask you something, Terrell. I'm gonna ask you to detail a restaurant that is your own creation, your brainchild,

your little baby. I wanna know a little bit about the theme, the menu, what's it called, all that. Get ready, I need you to join this theme song in the style of Beastie Boys. This is the restaurant of your dreams. Give me line two. What?

I'm freestyling? Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is the restaurant of your dreams. This is the restaurant of your dreams. And say dreams with me, kind of like the way... Dreams. Yeah, alright. This is the restaurant of your dreams.

Dreams. It's really great. Service okay, food amazing. This is the restaurant of your dreams. Dreams. Crushed it, man. Alright, tell me about the place. I just threw a blank, I got nothing.

All good. I'm just gonna go with the flow. This is the restaurant of your dreams! Crushed it, man. Alright, tell me about the place. I just threw a blank, I got nothing. All good. Yeah, so I've been giving this some thought. Yeah. I think I have a great idea.

Key with a chain restaurant, profitability, reproducibility. So I want a restaurant that caters to gamblers. Oh no. Yeah. So imagine you walk in and there's like one of those like capsule toy machines, you know, like a gumball machine sort of, but you put it in plastic.

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. You go up to the counter. It's like 10 bucks for a token or something like that. So you get 10 bucks. You take the token back to the machine. You turn the wheel. You get a capsule and that is So you get 10 bucks, you take the token back to the machine, you turn the wheel, you get a capsule,

and that is what you're eating. Okay, so. Is it that small? No, that's just the slip, that's your order. That's your order slip. Oh, so it's like literally like a roulette of what you're gonna eat. Exactly. You don't know what you're gonna get.

So the lowest tier, you just paid $10 for like cup of noodles. Like you lose, you know. So you could get committed to buying an expensive meal. Right, exactly. The high, the grand prize, you know, in this like capsule toy thing is like, you know, you get like a filet mignon or whatever for 10 bucks.

Can't beat it. Oh, it's all 10 bucks. It's 10 bucks per token per spin of the wheel, basically. Oh. So you just don't get to choose off the menu. So cup noodles is what, two bucks or something like that? Well, I mean, it's $10 for the token. No, no, no, I'm saying, but like in general.

So you're making a huge profit if they get Cup Noodles. So you're making like eight bucks of profit. So like, you know, Cup Noodles probably on like a 15 to 1 ratio outnumber the filet in the thing. Right. So I'm thinking the only thing you gotta consider is dietary restrictions. So maybe there's a green capsule machine

and that's vegetarian or something like that. But otherwise, you don't get to choose. The menu is cup of noodles at the bottom tier, filet mignon at the top. In the middle, maybe there's a burger, maybe there's pasta, maybe soup. It's not about the, there's nothing special about the food in it of itself. Other than the delivery mechanism, it's the delivery mechanism.

And it is the idea that you could pay ten dollars for a great steak. Yeah. But you could also pay ten dollars for strikeout cup of noodles. Yeah. What's the place called Gambler's Grotto? I don't know. Sounds like a place you're going to contract something. Maybe if you roll it, you know,

if you lose too many times. Yeah, tell me more about it. What's it look like? What's on the walls? It's plush, it's plush. It's casino type, you know. There is, it's loud. It smells like tobacco probably.

Smoking's allowed inside. You can smoke inside for sure. Somehow, I'm gonna make it. You can do the loophole where in like a stage production you're allowed to smoke so you could just do something where it's like oh you're all you know like the Nathan for you thing. Yeah. You've seen that one? No. Oh there's like a bar that's like oh we've lost business since the smoking ban and you can't smoke inside so he's like oh what if we sell tickets and just have people watching just what happens

at your bar and make it like a slice of life type play? Oh, because you're allowed to smoke on stage. So if you sell it as though just hanging out at this bar as a production, you can smoke. Yeah. I mean, I think also with the nice steak, you get the nicer seat too. There's like a velvet rope area. Ooh, okay. So if you get a cup of noodles, you got to sit down. You don't get a seat seat too. There's like a velvet rope area. Ooh, okay. So if you get a cup of noodles,

you gotta sit down. You don't get a seat. Yeah, you gotta stand. It's like at a 7-Eleven where they got, they just got the one standing table and they got like the hot water dispenser or whatever. There's a line to a microwave. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. A dirty microwave or whatever.

And then you get the filet mignon. There's like a waiter wearing like a tux with tails all the whole nine yards. It's got the tray. Yeah, the silver platter. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Interesting.

I don't know if I would eat here. Just given- You would try it. Well, my aversion to cheese, I feel like I would strike out. I'd get like a cheeseburger or a pasta that probably has like- That's the main issue. I think we can't have too many different machines, you know?

So I think there would be a vegetarian machine. And then if you get a cheeseburger, you can say, hold the cheese. Like you can say no, you can do substitutions, but you can't say, oh, I got a cheeseburger, but I'm gluten-free, I want something else. It's like, no, sorry, then roll again. I was thinking maybe you-

So people are getting like nine cups of noodles, hoping for that filet. Exactly. I was thinking, and then you got the sunk cost. You're like, well, I've already spent $60. Like, I want my steak. Yeah. You know, but I was thinking maybe we could have some system where you don't like what you got. You can return it for a partial refund. So like you $10 for a token, you get a cup of noodles. Okay, you give us the slip back. I'll give you like three bucks back.

So I just made seven bucks for nothing and you can roll again, you know? Okay, yeah. That does appeal to a very specific type. And I do think Gambler's Grotto would find a home. Probably illegal. Probably illegal, but who cares? That was solely just to you, the restaurant of your dreams. One last time, that theme song with me.

This is the restaurant of your dreams. It's really great. Okay. It's really great. It's really great. That's it. Well, that is what you think a successful restaurant should be. Why don't we turn to the people of Yelp and see what they think

this specific restaurant, the subway we went to should be. We're going to jump into this week's Yelp from Strangers. A one star, two star, three star,elp reviews of the very subway that we went to. Terrell, do you mind if I read the first one? No, it's your show. 4 star review. This is a 4 star review from Pete B. But Pete is spelled P-E-A-T, like repeat. Oh, or like coal. Like Pete, it's like low quality coal from a peat bog.

I've not heard that before. Whatever. Forget it. I'm from the 20th century. No, no, no, no. You have to live with your aged reference. What are you a chimney sweep? This is the very first person to review this subway location. This is from February 7th, 2011.

It's your typical subway. In a two-level early 90s corner strip mall, parking completely blows. There is a parking lot underground, but it's hard to see the entrance to it on Verdugo. The sandwich artists are real weirdos. Kind of slow and interact with each other in front of the customers. It's rude. I don't know. That's a you had to be there type of thing. I'm not sure that's true. I don't think it's rude for employees to interact in front of customers.

Yeah. I mean, my biggest disagreement so far is just saying it's the average subway and then giving it four stars. It's like, well, that's way too high. They make up for the rudeness by seriously loading my sandwich up. When I asked for extra lettuce and tomatoes, she got it just right. Love it. Gotta love the weirdos.

He really clung to weirdos and I don't know why. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, bit colorful overall, nice review. Again, I wish we had a little more detail about what they were doing that was so rude. Yeah, it seems like he was just offended that they were talking to each other. I want focus to be on me.

Make sure not for one second you lose eye contact in case I decide, nah, that's too much lettuce. And I just, I love the weirdos thing. Yeah. That seems that's like, is he older? Did he look old? Did he have a picture? Okay. No, uh, his picture was like of a logo.

So like calling someone logo or a weirdo. That's kind of like older guy coded to me that, you know, this is a one star review from S., kind of a rectangular head shape. Pfft. Gentlemen wearing Groucho Marx glasses, cut-out pencil mustache. The short man with salt and pepper hair was very rude. He was doing too much for making minimum wage.

Let's unpack that. Yeah, short man, salt and pepper hair. That's great. I have an image immediately in my head. He was doing too much for making minimum wage. Like, what is that, like, come on, you're doing minimum wage, stop trying so hard? Yeah, I can only think maybe he was rushing Josh S. Maybe he was like, okay, let's go, let's go, let's go.

I don't know what that means. He was doing too much for minimum wage. To me, that would be a compliment, I guess. To me, it sounds like he was helping my order, he was cleaning, he was answering phones. Come on, man, they don't pay you enough to do all those. Yeah, but you're giving it one star. Like, if you saw a guy who's working hard,

that shouldn't be docking, you shouldn't be docking the restaurant stars for that. But again, this is a subway. Sure. So what's it starting at? Now this is way better. He tried to call the police because he made a mistake on my order.

Now if that isn't a one-sided story. He's omitting some details. Yeah, yeah. Because the way it's phrased, it sounds like he's calling the police on himself. I have to turn myself in. Yeah, arrest me, copper, because I've made a mistake. Officer, I put it in the toaster and he didn't want it toasted, this psychopath.

Yeah, so I imagine Josh S said no jalapenos, guy puts on jalapenos, Josh S is like, take them off, and then the guy had an attitude about it and threatened to kick him out of the store or something. That's totally my mind's story. And then he had an attitude back and then the guy's like, do you want me to call the police? Yeah, yeah. That's my only guess.

Final sentence of this review, may he find peace. That's passive aggressive. I love that review though. No, that's a great review. Like three sentences told a lot of stories. That's right. It's true. Yeah. Did you like those two reviews?

You can get three more of them over on my Patreon. That's patreon.com slash fine dining podcast. But not only do you get extra Yelp reviews, you get an exclusive fine dining episode every single month. I've recently done Ivers, which is a seafood chain up in Washington. I did Dick's last resort, a place that's known for its rude service on purpose. And for January, I covered Dan's hamburgers, which is literally my favorite burger on the planet. It's a small chain in Austin, Texas,

and I get to gush about it. So go check that out. That's patreon.com slash fine dining podcast. I appreciate your support. Back to the episode. And that's part one. Tune in next week where we'll actually tell you what we thought of this lunch at Subway.

Terrell, thanks for coming on the podcast. Do you have any? Do you want to encourage people to follow you on social media? Are you on blue sky yet? No, I'm good Yeah, good. Overall, you don't want followers. I don't want to inflict myself upon I don't be like subway. Hey, I was gonna say if only subway had that same I don't want to be like Subway. I was going to say if only Subway had that same. Cool, awesome. Well, you can follow the show on Instagram and TikTok, but I am also on Blue Sky now.

So come find me at Fine Dining Podcast on all of those, or you can send me an email, fine dining podcast at gmail.com, and tell me anything you thought about this episode or anything. Whatever. Tell me places you want about this episode or anything. Whatever. Tell me places you want to see me go next. In the meantime, we're just going to be sitting here for one week, waiting on our table. We'll see you all next week.

Have a fine day. Waiting on our table, waiting on our table. The step is done and we had some fun. Now we're waiting on our table, waiting on our table. Join us next time, we're stuck in line. Waiting on our table, waiting on our table. We're so hungry, tummy's grumbling. Waiting on our table, waiting on our table We gotta continue our search for mediocrity Yeah

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