First Things First - Alex Palou joins show, Shedeur Sanders’ preseason performance, Where should Burrow & Hurts be ranked?

Episode Date: August 11, 2025

Watch clips on YouTube! Subscribe to the ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠FIRST THINGS FIRST YOUTUBE CHANNEL⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ (00:00) Shedeur Sanders’ preseason performance / Dak Prescott says to Rams owner “We’ll meet y’all in NFC Championship” (23:01) Is Joe Burrow a tier 1 QB? / Is Jalen Hurts a tier 2 QB? (41:07) Wildes’ Weird & Wonderful / Caleb Williams did not play in preseason game. Smart choice? (:48:53) More on Shedeur Sanders’ preseason play / Is Matthew Stafford overrated? (1:06:43) Alex Palou joins the show (1:18:29) How should Brock Purdy be ranked? (1:24:52) Wildes’ Weird & Wonderful (1:56:51) Final thoughts Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Live from New York. Wow, it's a show that is very excited. It's our first show without going back to the smelling salts bit. Well, you don't know that. I'm not sure. You don't know what we have in store. First hour, first thing. It's also our last week of preseason.

Oh, yeah, last week of preseason, then we're on vacation, then it's prediction. Predictions week marks the start of football season. Brute has been. What? You think you know my predictions? No, it's just like when we put presents under the tree. for the kids. Yeah.

And they'll start opening. It's like, it's not predictions week. I might surprise you. Okay, I hope so. You don't know. First hour, first things first. Today. I'm excited for today.

Shador's debut. How close is he to making his regular season debut as the starter for the Cleveland Browns? We discussed. Meanwhile, new IndyCar champ is the same IndyCar champ. Friend of the show, Alex Palo, joins us yet again. Is he a friend of the show?

This is going to be. A little off the show in general. Just like two of the guys. Two of the guys, but that's a majority. Like if a law passes. And finally, coach and executive QB tiers from Mike Sando of the Athletic. And a new update on Matthew Stafford, who does well in this tiers ranking. Not so well in training camp, however.

He's in a futuristic trailer. Not good. Futuristic trailer. You haven't seen the futuristic trailer that he's in? Not like Dune. Like a trailer that you hook up to a truck. No, I haven't seen it. It's not good.

I'm sure it's fun. I'm sure it's not. Nick Wright, Kevin Wilde's Chris Broussard. We are starting with Shador's debut. Starting and played into the second half. Two touchdowns. 14 for 23, just under 140 yards in the air. Added 19 more on the ground.

Here he was, taking a page out of Professor Brassard's book, giving himself a great. I would say C plus. C plus. Yeah. It's passing because we got the win. You know, that's first and foremost, and that's extremely important. But, you know, Pops said, you know, take advantage of opportunity and I don't feel like I did.

So, you know, I feel like I let him down a little bit. But on the team behalf, I feel like I ran the offense pretty well. I feel like I got to my decisions and in some things I could have done better. I could have done better and different process where I could speed my feet up. So, you know, I'm just thankful for an opportunity. I'm happy you know we won. But it's definitely still time to go to work. Okay, Brew, your reaction.

Well, first, I think he was being sincere. A lot of people probably looked at him giving himself a C plus like, what? And some may think he's just saying that to come off as humble. But, you know, he also said, sorry pops to his dad like he didn't perform. He missed, you know, he missed early on a nice, I think it was third down. He overthrew like a running back or something. Took a sack on fourth and one.

Yeah, yeah. He had, you know, a few things that I'm sure he was disappointed in. But overall, this was tremendous. You know, that's probably a little overstatement, but it was very good for him. I would give him a B plus. I could see if someone wanted to give him an A minus when you consider the circumstances.

Like every fifth round pick is under some pressure in the preseason because you might not even. make the team. But for him, like, if he went out there and played poorly, didn't, couldn't get the offense under control, was bad at the line of scrimmage, made some bad throws, who knows what his future would have been. I mean, he might have got cut, you know, eventually on this team. So I think he went out there and was great. Like, the two touchdown passes, you alluded to it during the highlights, I think we might have them. Both of them were incredible. This is a hard pass. He threw it right over the defender.

Look at that. That is an incredible pass. Yeah, I mean, a little bit off target, and that's an interception. That's a great throw. It's gutsy. And then Nick, the second touchdown was great as well. It was like, look at how many defenders. That's five defenders around the guy.

He made, he obviously handled the game well. He also made plays with his legs. People say he's not. I mean, you don't have to be Usain Bolton. to play quarterback. He looked fast enough. But he was fast enough. Right.

He was smart, fast enough. Obviously, like, when he took, he scrambled and he got away with it, but he wouldn't probably get away with some of that against the stars. Did you hear him talking to Miles Garrett about that on the sideline? No. The double spin move scramble that ended up going down as a sack because he ran out of bounds like a yard behind the line of scrimmage, but he got away from everyone. He said to Miles, he was like, would that spin move work on you?

And Miles said, absolutely not. And he then kind of went back and forth with him about it and saying essentially, yeah, I know I can't really be doing that. Like, you know what I mean, that I got away with it. And you didn't even, I'll let you continue. But one of the best throws we showed in the opening highlights, but was the throw out of his own end zone, where he kind of moved a little bit to the side, avoided the rush and threw it down the field 20-some yards. No, he was comfortable in the pocket. I mean, he looked good.

And I thought we were going to show his entry because some people were saying they thought he came. came in with an entourage or something. I'll say that for, well, here it is. But as far as I know, that's a teammate. And so there's no entourage that I see. The teammates carrying a boombox of the sorts. And the staff and the boombox. I don't, but to me, that's on him.

That's not on schedule. I'll be honest. I'm not certain. I don't know, but that is a teammate. I know the majority of those people are teammates. I'm not certain about every single one of them, but I'll take your word for it. I think that to me, though, is more in line.

Because after the game, you talk to Tony Grossey. We're going to get to that. Like the four in the after the game are one thing. The 60 minutes of the game are another. And listen, I right now have seen enough that I am comfortable saying, if they were to play a game that mattered tomorrow, he should be their backup. Oh, yeah.

That he should, that he has done enough to. move up at least temporarily on the unofficial depth chart. Because Kinney Pickett is injured, and according to these 50 GMs, coaches, and execs that we're going to hear from in a bit, the Sandopold is in a tier all by himself at the bottom of the league. The only tier five quarterback in football, according to everyone else, not Nick Small Hand, Tobias, their football GM opinions. And Dylan Gabriel has been banged up.

and struggled massively at camp, not because of the ESP and Cleveland stats, but because of what everyone who's been there every single day, what they have reported. And Chidor now went out there and handled himself incredibly well. And I thought, I was, I think I was maybe more impressed than you Wilde

on that first touchdown because of the guts it took. Because I don't, I don't know how I would act in, you know, whatever a broadcaster version of this type of spot would be. But. Boop your pants. But if everyone, what I've been hearing all week long is it's not really about do you make great plays. As much as it is, do you avoid the awful mistake?

Yeah. Man, it takes some, like this play as cool as that. was, that play to me was not nearly as impressive as this because that was all reward no risk. It not only is a much better throw, it also, if you screw that up by 5%, it's a pick in the end zone. It points off the board. It is exactly what people are saying, ah, you know what I mean? This is why we're saying he's not ready. You can make a perfect throw.

You have to have trust in your teammate that you haven't had a bunch of work with. Well, and that's the other reason that I would have graded him higher than he graded himself. I think there is an argument to be made that the Brown's starting offense has the least talent of any starting offense in football. Thank you. And he wasn't. Imagine the backup. Well, that's exactly. And the beginning of that game was the Brown's backups against, and I'm not acting like Carolina's world beater,

but it was Carolina's starters against the. against the Brown's backups, and Shador handled it really well. Like, this is, this, this is not, it is last name hype that makes us lead the show with him. It is not last name hype that makes us say, hey, that is a rookie quarterback that looked good in his preseason debut under less than ideal circumstances when he was at a talent from the rest of his teammates versus the other team, disadvantage. And if you are the Brown's brain trust, that right to me, the only fair reading of it is Gabriel is now the one chasing.

Now, we'll see how preseason game two looks. But to me, Gabriel is now chasing, even if that's not how they listed on the depth chart for the time. We've got Coach Manjini coming in, and he might have a strategic view of how he wants to see the quarterbacks if he was in charge. Brew, if you are in charge, who do you want to start against the Eagles on Saturday?

Sador. Shador, you do. Because Flacco doesn't need to play. I don't need to see Kenny Pickett, even if he's healthy. We know what he is. I think they've already said they don't think Pickett's going to be. Yeah, but even if he was healthy, we know what Kenny Pickett is. We've got two and a plus years of him in the NFL.

And then Dylan, I would play Chador the first half and Dylan Gabriel the second. If all four quarterbacks are. So I think I might, given everything I said, I think I still. might let Gabriel start. Be like, hey, you know what I mean? Like, Shador has moved past you, but in part that, you know, he's got to start a game. You now get to start a game,

but, you know, a preseason game, but I would only play those two quarterbacks in preseason game too. Kenny Pickett to me is a, the only utility Kinney Pickett has is if something happens to Flacco, we don't want to start a rookie. We'd rather start a veteran.

But that is planning for a problem that the Browns, the idea that the Browns are going to be playing meaningful football if their starting quarterback gets hurt. But you know what is not a likely one to begin with anyway. So, yeah, I want to see Gabriel and Chador. And I think Gabriel now is some ground to me. All right. Let's get her quick reaction to this interaction postgame, Chador and longtime Cleveland media mainstay, Tony Groese. Now, Grossie said today on the radio that it was. he who initiated the conversation with Shador. Shador is leaving. He wanted to have a quick chat with

him. So it wasn't Shador, which some people thought. So take a listen to this. Tony, I'd be hoping you got something positive to say, but you always say negative. And I'm like, I ain't do nothing to you. I didn't see nothing positive for everything. I did somebody every day. But I'm saying, come on, Tony. What I do? Okay, later tweet from Tony Grossi. My bottom line on Shador's impressive debut, he put the pressure on, Pickett, and Dylan Gabriel to get healthy and perform

next week. He had some other nice things, but it wasn't negative after that interaction. Your reaction to that piece of video. Look, I know Tony, we worked together at the Cleveland playing deal. He was covering the Browns when I was an intern. Wow. Wow.

He doesn't look that old, to be honest with you. No, he's aged way better. Yeah. He's a great guy. I like, first, quickly, let me say about Shadoor's entrance, which we showed earlier. I had no problem with it. And I like actually him coming in with the legendary chain.

That's not my style. But I like him coming in with that because it just shows, I'm going to be me, like that he's still confident. I would not like if he's walking in there with 15 guys in an entourage and celebrating. I just felt like a Colorado entrance. He's his Colorado backpack. It still felt. I like him.

says, I'm still confident. I've taken all these hits. My team thinks I'm the fourth best quarterback on the roster, but I'm still confident enough to wear this chain and all that. So I like that. And the interaction with Grossie, a lot of players would have went off on Grossie. Like, man, you never say nothing right.

Or ignored him, said, no, I'm not talking to you. He turned what could have been an uncomfortable situation into a lighthearted. But you get what I mean. He got through to Tony, but it was lighthearted and fun, and there's no love lost either way. They're laughing and smiling at it. You can see his dad in him, the optimism. The charisma.

It's the same thing. I've spent a little bit of time around Magic Johnson. You both have spent a ton of time. You a ton and you a fair amount around Magic. And there is just everyone, and I'm not comparing Shador to Magic. I'm just saying there is something, unquantifiably valuable about a great smile and charisma that is just disarming to people because that interaction was entirely colored by the laugh at the end.

You know what I mean? If you just read a transcript of it and don't see it, it can come across as, ooh, you know what I mean? Like rough, but because he's smiling and laughing at the end and... And even during it, like he's not yelling at him? No. But here's the end. other thing and then I'll get to the entrance.

So I have not been in, I have not covered as many teams as brew, but I used to go in locker rooms. When I was, I was, you know, Tony Grosy, I had that job in Kansas City and while you host a radio show, you also go in the locker rooms, do all this stuff. Athletes getting angry at the

people who've been critical of them and saying something to them in the locker room or after a game has happened forever. It is not a sign of immaturity. It is not a mistake. It is simply seen now on video. Like, you know what I mean?

That part is par for the course for as long as you've been covering the game forever. So I had no problem with that. The entrance I thought was bad optics. I thought even though it was, to your point, either entirely or mostly as teammates, I thought the boom box and the staff was, It was unnecessary ammunition for folks that were. If there was any front office, let me put it like this.

If there was any owner that went to his GM, like, hey, we had a fourth round pick. I'm reading all these good things about Shador Sanders. Why didn't we draft him? I would imagine that GM before the game sent the owner that video. He's like, I can't explain it, but this is why. This is why, like, we didn't want it for a guy that wasn't going to be our star quarterback. That added whatever. And so even though Bruce said he's not a jewelry guy, I am.

I'm kind of a flashier guy. I probably have a lot of similar personality characteristics that I don't, I am not personally bothered by. But I understand he's not working for me. And he's not a lot of the people that he's working for. because we also said that this game was an audition for all 31 teams theoretically if the Browns don't move him up the depth chart. I don't think that helps him. I don't think it's a huge deal,

and I don't think the Tony Grocer thing is a bad thing at all. I just don't think there's anything positive gained from it, and I don't think there are a lot of any other rookie quarterbacks that are going to have a grand entrance. And I think that's... What do you think the staff... I don't know. He's partying the rail.

I don't know what it was. I don't know what it was. I wasn't thinking in biblical terms. It was just unique. We got to find. I saw some stuff saying that that guy is a teammate. I buy that. I buy that.

Is the sad on Shadour? It might be on this dude. I don't. Don't some. I've seen other players coming in with boombox. Did Debo? Debo, Sam? I've seen.

Debo, yes. 49ers have a team. Yeah. Yeah. The Debo. I wouldn't be surprised at many of the teams. And again, maybe I... He's like, that's not my boombox.

Yeah. So I, do you think I'm crazy with one? No, I think it makes sense. We don't know if it's his boombox. Also, Gianna Note, next Monday, my entrance, boombox. Next Monday's vacation. You won't remember in two weeks. I will be here.

No days off. No, but maybe he needs, I mean, he played great. He played great. He played really well. His play will be the defining fact. Yeah, if he played poorly. it's like, oh, if he played poorly with no boombox, what happened to the boombox?

But a lot of guys, and this wouldn't have been bad. A lot of guys would be like, let me ditch the chain for now. Let me just come in by, you know, I like, though, that he just said, this is who I am. And I'm glad he didn't come in with a briefcase full of money. So that's exactly the thing. That would be a little bit of been a lot. So I do think there is a fine line.

Yes, I agree. Like, pretending you're someone else abandoning who you are and post, post-draft, like, hey, we have all this set up for when I'm a first-round pick, and then I end up being the story as my fall. The briefcase full of money. Maybe we don't bring that out. You know what I mean? I'm not saying that you wear a bowtie and suspenders, but I agree.

There may have been three briefcases. Okay, you're right. It may have already come down. It may have already come down. It's still the rain. Just put in a briefcase. You know, that's fair. You don't know what the plan was.

Powboys preseason. Against the Rams, pregame DAC talking to Rams owner Stan Crunky. Now the context here, DAC's team hasn't been to the conference championship in almost 30 years, but that's about to change. So here is a closed caption version of DAC talking to Stan. We'll meet you in the NFC championship. That cursor looks like it's just revolving curse words, but it was just kind of following along like a karaoke machine. So Dax seeming to say, see you all in the NFC championship, your reaction.

into, Dax's confidence. It was cute. It was cute. It was like when the NBA player goes, holds a camp or goes to speak in an elementary school. And the kid is like, I can beat you in one on one. You don't get mad.

You're like, that's cute. His naivity. You don't take him seriously, of course, but you laugh, you chuckle at his naivety. It's great that he believes in himself. Maybe some people think I'm exaggerating a little. I'm sure that's what Crocky's thinking.

Yeah, all right. All right. Really? It's been 30 years, Dak. You don't even have your best player signed up. The team is falling apart. I mean,

I'm not even mad at, Dak. I'm not even going to go off. Oh, here we go again. They're talking about the Super Bowl. They're not to be taken seriously. They're just not. And so, okay.

Sure, Dak. All right. I took this. I took this, maybe not surprisingly, totally different direction. I'm glad to see Dak as the type of faith in Matt Stafford that I do. Dak believes it's one thing to believe. He's one thing to believe in your own team, but he knows he knows ball and he understands the Rams were this close to beat in the Eagles last year.

And they would have one play away from the conference championship game last year. I think this is, The vast majority of days we do a show, this would be the topic that I think is the most ludicrous. Now, today is a weird one because we have a Ben Johnson topic in here that I think it's top ten silliest things we've ever done. But we'll... Patrick Mahomes and Joe Burrow need to play in the pre-shund.

But we'll get to that one later. I think there's nothing. I think this is... We see guys at the... end of games all the time. Say, see y'all again in January. Or hope to, sometimes it's an intra-conference game. What is it where it's against two?

AFC and FC. I don't know if that's inter-intra. It's like, hey, see you in February. When neither of the teams has any real Super Bowl hopes. Like, that to me is very common pre-and-post-game football stuff. Like, up, not on the schedule. So guess I'll see you in the playoffs. He just put a pin on it.

What is the worst? What is the combo out of every combo in the league? And maybe they're not even on the schedule. Where are you like, that's fair? What do you mean? Like if it was Trevor Lawrence talking to. The worst combo that I think is acceptable. Where the person doesn't say, what?

Okay. Well, this was one of them. Cam Ward Tua, AFC Championship game. No, for real. That's the worst one. That's acceptable. Yeah, because he was like, yeah, it's acceptable. Because it's cute.

Well, because Cam Ward saw a rookie go to the conference championship game last year. And, you know, Tua's been a prolific pastor at times. It would be great to just get the other guy out as he. I was like, huh? Cronky was thinking that. Believe it. Believe me. I mean, they're not to be taken seriously.

I like it. Cowboys in Phillies in 24 days when the season kicks off. Borough in Mahomes, Tier 1. Tier 1 quarterbacks. That's next on FS1 in the Fox Sports Channel on Sir XM. A lot of fluidity in these tiers, grew. Oh, my goodness. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Mike Sando of the Athletic released his QB tiers based on the votes and input of coaches and executives around the league. Now, here's the top tier of QBs. Mahomesboro, Josh, Lamar, and Stafford. Now, the Tier 1 definition, this is. is important because are these guys just the best? Like, well, this is specifically what they are. Tier 1 quarterback can carry his team each week. The team wins because of him.

He expertly handles pure passing situations. He has no real holes in his game. Joe's unanimous, Josh and Lamar not unanimous. Anybody have any issues with the top tier? And also, Coach Menjini's here. What's up, coach? My takeaway from this is, because if you remember, last year coming off an MVP, Lamar was tier two.

Remember that? And it was, so this was Lamar's... And those numbers weren't terrific. His passing, and so these coaches and executives, what they value mirrors a lot of what coach values, which is that last line you read, which is pure passing situations. Which is why you could justify having Joe Burrow a... Again, he's on the same tier as Josh and Lamar, but Josh and Lamar were not unanimous.

Joe was, and it's because other than Mahomes, and this is, I think the point coach is making a few weeks ago that I disagreed with him on, but it's echoed here. Third and nine, who do you want? That these GMs are saying, I'd like that guy. Now, I don't think that's, I'd rather have Josh Allen than any quarterback but Patrick Mahomes because in third and nine, he can throw it,

but he also can run it for those nine yards. Like him running for a first down on third and long, not only is it not crazy, it's pretty typical. And so I just think Josh has more ways to hurt you and is not as flawed passers as he was early in his career to where it dips down. But that's to me the way I read this. But when you look at the definition,

it's what I talk about all the time, where the whole stadium knows you have to pass. Who is that guy that can go in there and be the most effective in that. moment. Obviously, Patrick gets a nod over Burrow because he's done in the biggest moments and he's done it so consistently, but then Burroughs the next guy. From a pure passing perspective, which is the most important trait of the quarterback, Joe is the best next pure passer. And I would agree with the two levels after that where I think Josh is a little bit better than Lamar is

from a pure passing standpoint. Look, obviously those for Tier 1, I don't know how two MVPs for Lamar, one for Josh, none for Burrow, like at some point, what you do has to matter. And they're all tier one. They all should have been unanimous. I mean, who's running a team that said Josh and Lamar aren't tier one? But when we talked about it, I said those other three take Patrick out of the mix. If you put those other three guys in a draft, he'd probably have a third of the league that drafts Joe, a third of the league that dropped Josh

and a third of the league that would drop from hard depending on what you like. But this, to be clear, I think it's wrong, but it looks like you have unanimity and your wrongness on it. Or a lot of people agree with you. 50 on me. I mean, that.

Well, I also think, though, when you look at the passing, and again, I love Burrow, I think all four of them should be unanimous. But Burrow does have arguably the best receiving duo in the league. neither Lamar or Josh has what, certainly not an above average. Like they've got an average receiving core at best. And the numbers Lamar put up last year, he did it with like an average receiver.

Joe has had these tremendous receivers. And Josh last year won the MVP because of what he didn't do, which was turn the ball over. And that was a huge knock against him. And that's still every time you start the next season, it's which Josh Allen are we going to get? the one that had the 19 or 21 turnovers, whatever it was, or what we saw last year. And then with Lamar, it's been in the biggest moments, can he perform? And up until last year, now I know he had those two drops, but up until last year hadn't beaten Pittsburgh.

And in big moments, hadn't come up big. So now, as you go into this next season, are we going to get the Lamar that can come up in big moments? Are we going to get the Lamar that does it? But this is where I, and again, I, two years ago, I was the guy saying everyone has elevated we weren't even talking about Lamar like this two years ago

because he was coming off two years where he got hurt. I was the guy saying everyone elevated Josh Allen above Joe Burrow because Josh lost to Mahomes in spectacular fashion and Burrow beat Mahomes and we didn't care and I thought it was insane. But now two years removed when we are talking about Josh and Lamar versus Burrow

Josh once he removed the turnovers to me is clearly the second most dangerous player in the league. Like that Josh Allen, when he's not turning the ball over at a historic rate, which he was early, the first four years of his career, there's very few holes in the game that you can find. And Lamar, I am probably Lamar's loudest skeptic on TV, but I can't hold Lamar's playoff failures against him to elevate a guy who hasn't completed a single pass. in the playoffs the last couple years because he hasn't been in it.

Like that to me is a dirty pool to be like you, you were here, but because you screwed up in the playoffs, you fell here, and this guy who missed the playoffs just stays there. Like that, that to me is not fair. As you look at the body of work, though, you're also, as a GM or head coach thinking, who can beat the best player in the NFL? And Joe Burrow has shown that he can beat the best player in the NFL. So you get credit for that point.

I agree with that, coach. There we go. If you beat the best player in the, if you beat the best team, if you score four touchdowns. Well, if you're the reason that you beat the best player in the NFL. If you throw three touchdowns. Yeah, so let's go to him, KW. Who are you even talking about?

Mine's a hypothetical. KW. It's the only thing you want to talk about ever. Meanwhile, Super Bowl MVP, Jalen Hertz, tied for ninth. Tide for ninth. C.J. Stroud in tier two, there's not. Nine guys total in tier two. Now here's the definition of tier two.

Jaden Herbert, Gough, Stroud, Hertz, Bake Show, Dack, J-Lo, and Purdy. Again, it's fluid. Where have we heard this? This is just... Y'all mock me. You shame me. You say, I don't know what I'm talking about. 50 GMs, executives, coaches.

They agree with me, coach. I mean, that's what I've been saying. Six to 14 is what you say? He says five to 15. It's a valid. It's fluid. It's fluid. You want to hear the definitions, so we're all arguing about the same thing?

Sure. A quarterback who can carry his team sometimes, but not as consistently. Yeah. Okay. He can handle pure passing situations in doses and or possesses other dimensions that are special enough to elevate him above tier three. Yeah. He has a hole or two in his game. Can I ask, since you're, this is your pet project?

It's not, I just want, I don't even have to much. Do you not think that that paragraph right there perfectly describes Jalen? It's not a knock. Yes, I do. I do. That's why I think the whole thing is not. Okay. And I wrote my own definition.

Okay, yeah, let's hear it. Would you like to hear it? I'd love nothing. Because this feels like, hey, can we write a definition to keep Jalen Hertz and tears? I got it. This has been the definition for 15 years. Well, you know what? When Jalen Hertz was in Pee-We football?

Well, 15 years ago, you could have an NBA definition, like, not great at the three-pointer. That's a big thing nowadays. Now it is. Okay, go ahead. So let's hear of yours. A quarterback who can excel in any physical or emotional environment and is able to take his game to another level when the situation demands it. He has a solution for every problem. And he is so good, the league tried to outlaw his butt.

I just don't think moral of the story, situational excellence, and playing really well in the playoffs is taken into account. So the other part of this, that reason why I tore up the theoretical survey is this sentence. Hertz's standing in tears barely changed after his Eagles won the Super Bowl. But it also barely, hold on, it barely changed after they had the supernatural funk coming. off a Super Bowl. He has been, he has been Tier 2. Right in the middle of Tier 2,

at once he got him to the Super Bowl, he elevated the Tier 2. Then last year he wasn't killed in this because the team fell, he failed your own definitional test. He couldn't excel in any circumstance. That team fell apart in historic

fashion and he didn't drop that far. And then he had this year where the team took off, again, once they stopped. passing the ball a ton is when they took off. Now, maybe that's coincidental. He didn't elevate super high. That is true, though, for Allen. I mean, I know we're not doing that, but Josh

Allen, Justin Herbert, they did it this year. Is your argument, I thought your beef was that he's tied for ninth? You're actually saying he should be tier one? Yes. Yeah. But why does Stafford deserve to be tier one? I don't think Stafford should be tier one.

So who deserves that fifth spot on tier one? It could be four. Yeah, just don't think it should be four. Drew thinks it. Can I take it through why he is where he is. And when you look at Jalen Hertz over the course of his career, the more that they limited him, the more successful they came. So when Jalen Hertz threw over 30 passes, okay, look at the difference between that and when he threw under 30. So he's 39 when he's under 30 attempts. Over 30, he goes to 22 and 14. That's a 16% difference, winning percentage difference. and look at the volume of interceptions.

And when they started last year, the first four games, he attempted 30 passes in all four games. They went two and two. The next 10 games, they attempted 30 passes one time, and they went 10 and 0. So what they realized is if we keep him under the league average, the league average in the 2000s is over 32.4 passes. If we keep him under 30 passes, we've got a much better chance to win. So that's not really a tier one quarterback. No, I agree with that. And my thing, now, Wiles, I'll give you this.

I think he should be ahead of C.J. Stroud, Justin Herbert, and Jared Gough. And here's why. Look at his numbers last year compared to Stroud and Herbert. I mean, this is like his numbers are just better. I mean, Herbert's right there with him. But Herbert played his worst in the play. And they did the same thing. Now, Herbert obviously throws a better ball, I believe, throws a better ball.

But Jim Harbaugh did the same thing to Herbert. He said, look, we're not throwing as much. And then Herbert imploded. Yeah, once they threw the ball in the playoffs, the imploded. And golf, I think, to your point, it's about the postseason for these guys. And Jalen is, we know golf is known to struggle in the playoffs through three interceptions in the NFC game against Washington, the playoff game. And look at, we know Hertz is excellent in the postseason.

Those three I would move Hertz ahead of, but I still think they're all... It really has a Tier 1 GM. Well, I think, listen, what they wrote about him in this thing, what the GM said was, they think he's a good player on a really good roster, which I think is not a wholly unfair thing to say. Now, we will see how he evolves over the course of his career, because it's not always going to be... Sequan's not always going to be a 2,000-yard player. We already saw it.

You know, Landon Dickerson, unfortunately, just went down. Like, they shouldn't be up front quite as stack this year as they were last year, and we'll see. But I just, if we can just have an extra minute, I just want to show two terrible tweets. Is there the opposite end to the spectrum here? Let's start with Danny, who's going to be joining first things first in the 5 o'clock hour after our vacation, who saw this and wrote this. Another ranking of the people actually do the job of coaches, scouts, GMs. That is Justin Herbert above Jail and Huron.

You had Eagles fans live in my mentions and DMs staying mad. Now, I can report firsthand that this tweet infuriated Kevin Wilde so much. He wrote a response tweet and then deleted it. I just didn't. And then, well, I find his tweet as ridiculous as yours. Why? Not just because yours, you were doing it every five days and then you got too busy, a few, too many topo chicos on Sunday, so you had to do 24 days until 25.

But you keep writing the same thing that all these players are working so they're going to have a resume slightly worse than Jalen Hertz. And I asked you this on the air once before. Kind of trying to convince you to stop sending this tweet. Who are these guys that we think can win the Super Bowl, that if they win the Super Bowl and win Super Bowl MVP, they have a worse resume than Jalen? Because it's not Patrick, Josh, Lamar, Burrow, Stafford, Gough, Jadford.

What? Why wouldn't it be Joe Burrow? How many Super Bowl is Joe? Oh, yeah, you lost one. You're right. Yeah, I'm sorry. Exactly. So if this is just like if Baker or Dak win the Super Bowl, they have a worse resume than Jayland.

But the guys who we think can win the Super Bowl, it's not true. Mahomes, Josh, Lamar, and. Burroughs, Stafford. And Stafford, if Stafford can get to another Super Bowl, that would be great. Golf. All those guys, they wouldn't have a worse resume. But all of them can't get there, obviously. All five of those guys can't win.

in the Super Bowl. No, no, no. And, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, but, so, that's good. That's good. No.

No, he's saying, I don't buy the idea that Jalen Hertz is stuck in tier two forever, no matter what he does. No, I don't see how that makes sense on, on a, on a, on a survey, you're like, hey, is there anything this guy can do? If I told you last year, Jaylen Hertz is in tier two, right, we'd get in our time machine last year, same thing,

Jayon Hertz is saying. tier two, we're having the same argument. And I said to everybody, I was like, listen, what if Jalen Hertz leads the Eagles to not the best record in the entire NFL, but a really good record, and plows through the playoffs and wins Super Bowl MVP, and he plays great in the and just for the fun, let's say he outplays Patrick Mahomes? I think. Is anyone willing to move him up? And everyone says, no, I think people, hang up you. I think people would have been. then that's what happened.

No, so I think the very first part of your statement, people disagree with. I think coach disagrees with. I don't think people look that Jalen Hertz led the Eagles through that regular season. I don't think they do. I think they think that Sequan Barclay, the number one defense,

and Jalen Hertz in his 18 touchdown passes, didn't lead them. So that's where I think it's a difference. Who led them? Sequin? So Seekwon went from the Giants who were no good, and he was just kind of given away from the Giants, the Eagles grabbed him,

and all of a sudden he's the guy leading him, not the guy who has previously gone to the Super Bowl? The difference between the Tier 1 and Tier 2 is Jalen Hertz is a reason why the Eagles won. He's not the reason why the Eagles won, where the Tier 1 guys are the reason typically their teams with. What I compare it to? Drey Mon Green. Is Draymond Green a Tier 1 NBA player? I don't think that is a fair comp.

No, but go ahead. What were you about to say? my major issue is with the tier one guys, they don't win. That's the issue. Hold on. One guy won. One guy won. Stafford and Jalen Hertz played.

One guy won. And then one guy went to the Super Bowl. So we just say, well, they're not the reason. Jailen Hart's not the reason the team wins. Well, the other guys literally don't. But I don't think KW. I don't think it is based purely off last season alone, which is why I think.

last year, we could check, I'm almost certain, last year in tiers, Jalen was ahead of Baker. Baker played him in the playoffs, played great. Jalen was the tip of the sphere of a collapse, and people still had Jalen ahead of him. Like, you're saying that he can't move up. I think he has moved up, and he can move up further. No, I mean, he has stayed tier two, but he is, you ranked him one, you know, numerically. He has gotten closer to tier one. You guys think he can't be tier one?

No, I think you could. If they win the Super Bowl this year and he's like, I think he's tier one next year. Yeah. But he's going to be defined by winning. If he can throw more than 30 passes, they can win games. Yeah, that beat. But Josh Allen is doing the same thing. They started winning last year or two years ago.

But two years ago when he wasn't throwing the football. He won league MVP because he had awesome numbers. His numbers weren't. I mean, he was great, but don't get me wrong, but nothing he can be. NFL back on Fox. We're kicking it off with the reigning MVP, Josh Allen. Take it on Caleb Williams, if Ben Johnson lets him play. Preseason football Sunday 8 Eastern on Fox.

Quick episode of Weird and Wonderful because they spent too long defending Jalen Hertz. Start with the wonderful Steelers Jags. Oh, my goodness. The record is 66 yards. This is the new record. It's this 70. Oh, that's a good take. This is the record.

That should be the right. The idea that this doesn't, of all the things. Well, it shouldn't count. Why not? Because it was preseason. But it happened in a real game. It was great. It literally is not a real game.

It's not a real game. You guys. Was it an NFL field, NFL ball? There is, it's nice. It's great. Maybe he, hopefully he could do it in the regular season. There's no way this should count. More importantly.

I just up the Jags to 11 wins. It is. I'm just telling you. You get to midfield. You don't think it should count. If you get to the 50 and you're in field goal range, and that's outdoors, bro. Especially with the Prince not getting them past how field a lot. Bring Cam Little out here.

Prince will get you the 40-yard line. I didn't love this. Cowboys preseason. CD gets hit by the ref. And then he gets penalized. He'll be, he's okay. Yeah, he should. Yeah, he's on the white, though.

He's on the wife. You have a get-back coach. You have a get-back coach who tells everybody stay back, stay back. It's good that this happened from a coaching perspective because every head coach in the league is showing this, and it's good that it happened to a star because every other star isn't going to want to be embarrassed like he was. I'm just glad he wasn't hurt.

Yeah, that's what you're not expecting to get it. And then you get his hit like that? I get that, but there's another person running down the field who has a job to do who thinks that space is safe. And now he's running and gets hit, like, I look, I'm with you, I'm glad it was a pillory, but kind of. I mean, I'm glad he wasn't hurt too.

But if CD had gotten hurt, it would have been his fault. But that would have been terrible had he gotten hurt. He's fortunate. Does this say anything about Cowboys coaching? No, it happened in the preseason. Typically, it's a coach that's out there yelling something. He gets hit. Someone's multiple people get hit every preseason.

and then you show it to the guys, and then you yell at the strength coach to get everybody back, and then he goes crazy on the sideline the next preseason game. What's the strengths coach? He's the get-back coach. Oh, really?

It's got to be a guy who got to get back. You have a guy walking up and down the sideline telling everybody to get back. I like that. Final wonderful head to Portland. Alex Fulow, friend of the show, almost loses it here. But hangs on.

We're still racing aggressively. Gets back on the track, finishes third, And he's got the points to clinch his third championship in four years. Yes, the yellow and red car finally gets a three-peat. What? It's not a chief shot. He was a chief fan. He gets a three-peat.

It's a big deal. Friend of the show, Alex Below, coming up later in the show. From Kansas City? No, he's from Spain, but he's a chiefs fan and also likes Brew and really likes me. I made a bad ball. I supported the wrong guy. Afternoon and headline. sponsored by Ramtrucks. They're built to serve. Caleb did not play in the Bears preseason game.

And Ben Johnson says one of the reasons is because he's getting so many reps at practice doesn't need to play. Take a listen. There is no substitute for real live bullets. I get that. But at the same time, when you can accumulate 70 plus reps in a day, that's pretty good. That goes a long way in terms of where you want to go with the connection with the connection, with the quarterback and his past catchers. So I wish I could do that every day with him. Are you surprised Caleb didn't play in the preseason? Listen, you guys know my stance, which is every team should be like,

hey, what are the Chiefs do? We'll do that. How does Andy Reed run camp? What does he do in preseason? We'll do that. This is the same way team should have mimicked the trade down in the draft with the Patriot's success of 20 years. The Chiefs get off to fast starts.

They're the best coach in football. So in general, I would. think play your guys. This, however, to me, with that said, when Ben Johnson has decided, and this is why I thought this was a nothing story, he did not play

any of his starting offensive line, his starting receivers, his starting tight end, or his starting running back. Once you make that decision, playing the starting quarterback would be asinine. Now, you could have said, again, done the opposite. Mahomes threw

one pass in his games, and I played a lot, but They, you know, Drake, may, your guy threw five passes, the one to the other team backwards over his head. But it is what it is. Oh, I didn't need them to play this for us. But this is what Wilde wanted to see from Caleb. That. We missed out on that. Can I tell you something?

Yeah. Go ahead. I'm glad he got this out of the system. And I'm glad Brable lit him up. Yeah. Because if this happened, game one, like he said, there's no such, there's no better, you know, practice than live bullets. This was a dumb, dumb play that's not happening in practice. So here's my question to you, because I think you have probably the biggest issue of this with anyone.

If after two preseason games, Caleb has played the same amount of preseason snaps as Drake May, except so meaning he just plays longer in week two than Drake in week one, does that make this a wash to you? Is that then okay in your mind? I would defer to coach. So when we had four preseason games, usually you'd go a drive. Then the second game, you'd get a quarter, third game you'd get a half, fourth game. Some people would put guys in for a drive, the stars in for a drive.

Some people wouldn't play them at all. Now with three, you would think it would go one quarter in the first game, half the second game, and not play him in the third game. But I would imagine for Ben Johnson, at this point, you want to do everything you can. So when Caleb shows up in the system, he pops. And so to get him another week of preparation, to get the whole group working together for another week before you put him out there, that to me makes a lot of sense because you want Caleb to have confidence in the system after he goes and plays a little bit. And you want everybody around him to have confidence in the system when he goes and plays a little bit. So to give him another week to do that, that makes sense to me.

I get why you do that. But I do think he needs to play some in the preseason because the intensity of going from, practice to a regular season game without any preseason exposure, it's a pretty gigantic jump. Yeah, I'm with you, coaching that part of me feels like they didn't put him out there because he's not quite ready. Like, he's got a lot to learn.

You know, he's a whole new system with Ben Johnson. We know he has to play differently and all that. And I don't think they wanted to put him out there. Now, I'm just speculating. But it feels like they didn't want him to go out there and not play well. That would have been a PR nightmare. You know, and so look, to each team its own, I think they should have played him and certainly should play him in the next game with the starters. But I wonder if that's the reason they didn't because he hasn't really looked great yet.

Bears Bills. Fox 8 o'clock. Yeah, I bet he'll play a ton. I would be very surprised if he doesn't play most of the first half. Oh, most of him. Live from New York, it's a show that's not. sure if Jalen Hertz can win the Super Bowl. No, nobody is saying, never.

Does he have what it takes? What? Hold on, breaking news from the first thing's first news desk. Turns out he actually did win the Super Bowl. And he had to win a tip. Great running back and a top defense. Holy cow. Really good old.

Historically, everyone has a top defense. Defense wins championships. True. You owe me 20 bucks. Second hour, first things first. Today, who was the next? most impressive rookie of the weekend besides Will Campbell. Maybe it was Jackson Dart.

Will Campbell? Will Campbell? They also got cooked once. They had one, one highlight, one low light. What was the final score? We're doing left tackle wins in the preseason? What was the score? Honestly, I don't know.

Wasn't the guy that strips acting lined up over Will Campbell? That was on Drake May, though. Even though Will Campbell took responsibility. Meanwhile, friend of the show, Alex Palo, who joins the show. He is now three-time IndyCar. No, four-time. Three-time. Back-to-back-to-back.

That's pretty good. But right now, we're talking to Chador. Shador got the start and delivered two touchdowns and some nice yardage on the ground. Here he was after his debut. Take a listen. It was a different sport. You know, I feel like it was a spark. Even though it's a preseason game, typically people don't take those too much serious,

but, like, that's our Super Bowl, you know? That's each and every player's super. Super Bowl. So the change is a family thing. You know, it's a family. You got to be able to go to war with each and every guy and understand, like, we're not playing for ourselves. We're playing for each other, you know, so not making selfish mistakes, not doing that type of stuff, getting through reeds, and the ball love doing what you've got to do. Everybody do their job, and that's how we believe in one another. Coach, did you like what you saw from Chador's debut? Yeah, and I was skeptical when he walked into the stadium, play. and music with the dude next to him where I'd like this whatever that thing is. The staff. I don't know if that's on Shadour. Really?

We're trying to find out I think that was a teammate. To me it's on that team if he was a teammate. Just randomly having a staff. It's on that guy. I don't know what that, I have no idea what that means. So I did not love this at all, but I thought he played really well. And there's a few layers to this. When he came out in the second half and you saw those first two,

drives and false start, false start. He got sacked. They had a total of four yards and those first two drives the second half. That's what I thought we were going to get at the start of the game from the offense in Chador. And he handled it. He handled it really well. And I thought he did a good job of staying the pocket for the most part. He extended the plays a few times, which I worked out, but I don't think that's going to work out great for him over the long run, but it worked out. I thought the two touchdown passes, both were very good as well. And the difference to me where he needs to be graded up, he needs to be graded on a positive curve. With Cam Ward and Jackson Dart, they're scripting for success.

Everything is set up to make sure they're as successful as possible to build their confidence and to show the world, hey, look how good this guy is. Where I imagine with Shador, it was a tryout. It was, hey, you're going to go out there, you're going to run the plays we have called, and we're going to see how you do. It's a totally different equation, and for him to perform as well. as well as he did with a very different approach to handling those quarterbacks, to me, I think, is a real positive that's tone down the intro, you know, to walk in.

Yeah, listen, I think that he has earned right now the number two spot on the depth chart. Well, that's not go crazy. We haven't even seen the other three guys play. Correct. Well, right. And Flacco is the number one quarterback. Like, Flacco is who they're going to start. It's who they want to start.

So he's there. But that's kind of my point, Coach. If you were, you wouldn't announce it to the media, but if you were running the team and it's like, all right, we know who we thought our starter was going to be Joe Flacko. We brought him in to be the starter. How of the other three guys looked? It's like, well, one guy in Kenny Pickett has been injured for a couple weeks now,

and we don't think he's going to be able to play preseason game number two. All right, that's not great. Another guy, Dylan Gabriel, has struggled massively in training camp. This is according to the reporters on the ground, and he's been injured. And the other guy has just played under, like you said, less than ideal circumstances, played well. Okay, well, then as of this moment,

if we had a regular season game tomorrow, that guy would be our backup quarterback. Like that's, now it can, I, Gabriel can overtake Shador, I feel, in the next preseason game. But I think based on Gabriel getting dinged, and Shador playing well, it is now Gabriel playing catch-up on Shador when we were talking about beforehand how tough was going to be for Shador because of limited reps, limited opportunities. I think he has now not only closed that gap, but overtook him slightly.

Yeah, I would agree because he's done something we haven't seen Gabriel do. He went in and he performed at a level that I would imagine people were surprised about, and I would imagine even people within that building were surprised about. So now it's on Dylan Gabriel to go in and say, okay, not only can I do that, but I can do it a little bit better. And with Kenny Pickett, you just have to decide organizationally. You brought him in. I think he signed a four-year contract. He's at $14 million.

They obviously felt like he was going to be, you know, the one or the two. And you've got to make that decision of are we going with the unknown rookie? Are we going with the really known slash unknown in our system vet that we had to make. some conviction on. Yeah, when you look at the fact that Chardour, we don't know how many reps he had 11 on 11 because he was doing a lot of 7 on 7. And then he's out there, coach,

against the first team from Carolina with backups with the Browns and look good. I agree with Nick. I think he should be ahead of Gabriel. I think Pickett, I mean, we know what Kenny Pickett is. I think he should be probably traded if they can trade him. If Chadour continues to play this well. I think that's a little,

with all these. reclamation projects that we've seen in the NFL. Oh, boy. Well, I'm just saying, don't you think it's a little? But I think Gino and Sam have much more talent. But Gino Smith, you look at his resume. There were years where it's like, oof, oof. And then you look at Sam Darnold.

Take your pick. There's been guys who develop later on. Yeah, listen, maybe way, maybe down the road. But the thing is, it's not like Pickett was lighting up in camp, and he got hurt. And so like. I'm just saying to completely write a guy off. in an era where we're seeing a lot of guys who have been written off suddenly come of age.

I don't think that's totally fair. I don't think pick. I think we know what he is. And I obviously darn, I just think Donald was more talented. He obviously was his third pick in the draft. Gino wasn't as high of a pick, but I think Gino had more talent than pick it.

Yeah. But next preseason game coach, I would start Chador, play him the first half, and play Gabriel the second half. half. See, I would imagine you want to get Gabriel some reps, meaningful reps, and so you could split time with those two guys and still get them to say equal number of reps.

So, alternating by possession? It doesn't necessarily have to be by possession if you wanted to start Shador and then go to Gabriel in the second quarter with the starters or however you want to mix it up. But you want to be able to evaluate this competition with like with like. So you don't want one guy working with one group. Well, Shador has never really worked with the starters, including in the this game.

Well, so now if you go with the starters and you split it up between those two guys, now you're looking at reps that are like, would like, and the evaluation is more, is more valid, I guess, objective? I think Shador is going to be the second Browns quarterback to play in the regular season. I don't know how they're going to list it. I think there is a chance. Shador wins the backup job, and they don't list him as the backup just to prevent the daily questions.

Like if Shador is listed as your backup and they start O&2 and Flah. struggles. There's a lot more media stuff. Stefansky has to deal with than if Gabriel's the backup. But whoever's listed is one thing. I don't think they're going to carry four. But I think that

it is... It's definitely on the table. No, it's on the table. I'm just guessing they don't. But the prediction I'm making is the second Browns quarterback to start a game this year will be Shudor-Sanders. Whether, however

they list the devil. Well, look, there's a lot of preseason football left to be played at least. So maybe in three weeks or two weeks it'll be more definitive. 50 coaches and executives put NFL quarterbacks into tiers in Mike Sandoz's yearly Tiers article for the athletic. Tier one has four obvious guys, Mahomesboro Lamar, Josh, and then Matthew Stafford. Now there's dual stories here. Stafford's in tier one.

Also, Stafford not practicing. QB Matthews, Stafford, and street clothes doesn't appear to be practicing today. McVey previously said the plan was for Stafford to participate. in individual drills. That's from Sarah Barshot. And then we have this from Adam Grossman. Matthew Stafford walked into the immortal chamber. Amortal is a, advertise itself as a wellness device. It's optimizing human performance. Okay. Whenever the word human is inserted into things, can we get one of those for the studio? Amortal silver tent. All right. So there's two kind of prong stories.

No, listen, the second prong is, if Stafford's not healthy, the Rams are cooked. The first and more important prong is, Coach, let me wipe off your shoulders a little bit, and you could do the same to me if you'd like, because coach and I, no ball. Coach and I, coach and I, coach, who's the quarterback that gets left out of everybody's top five that every time he comes up, you're like, you know, I really like that guy. Stafford? Matt Stafford, yeah, exactly. Me as well.

You should like him as well, since you're a very binary, have you or have you not won a Super Bowl? And by the way, Bruce is going to throw up, I already know it, a bunch of nonsense stats, you know what I mean, that are misleading and like, hey, here's actually why Brock Purdy, who's holding on for dear life in tier two

at the bottom of it, is as good as Stafford. Here's the stats that matter. When rubber hits the road, how Stafford been since he's been with a real organization? And the answer is freaking awesome. He is top three.

We can show you his playoff numbers, I hope, I think. If not, I'll just tell him to you. since he's been with the Rams, he's second or third in everything. And not a quarterback wins guy, but if you like him, KW. You sound like a quarterback against guy. Well, what about, okay, what about passing rating? Third, touchdown ratio, third, passing yards per game.

Second, that's among 18 playoff quarterbacks since he's been with the Rams. That's, and he definitively passes the test. Coach cares so much about, as do I. Third and nine, got to go get it. goes and gets it. But it's... Did he win the game throwing the ball when the whole stadium knows he's throwing the ball?

And the answer is yes. Yeah. He's done it. Look, Matthew Stafford is a very good quarterback. He should not be tier one. This is the first time in his career he's been tier one at 37 years old with a bad back?

He's in the immortal chamber. If you wanted to put him tier one a couple years ago, okay, coming off the Super Bowl, I would have liked it more than now at 37. Nick, you said QB wins. Last three years, he's 22 and 18. No, I said I'm not a QBB wins guy. I am a talented team.

I am a playoff wins guy. Here's his ranks, Coach. The last three years or last year. I told you. This is where he ranked. That's not nonsense. That's all of last season. How in the world does that equate to Tier 1?

Because he played well in the playoffs? Yes. Well, then let's put Jaylor Hertz on there. like Wilde said. Okay, sure. It's a body of work. It's not just last year. It's the cumulative body of work.

And guys are getting graded down and guys are getting graded up by things that they've done historically as well. But that's why the bargain's traded down. If it was body of work. Super Bowl, he won the Super Bowl. He won the Super Bowl. He's a guy that is an elite passer. He's got, he hits the criteria of two ones. I also think that the last three games of the year that he played.

when they are fighting for playoff, you know, trying to get in the playoffs. He throws one touchdown and has one interception in three games that they need. Two of the games he had a pass-a-rated in the 70s. The other game, it was 83. But, Drew, those weren't the last three games here. No, his last three games. No, but they didn't have one more game after they made the playoffs. When he was awesome.

Fine, but it's not just about the playoffs. It's a whole regular season. But they clearly, and this is where I think you should like. like him, KW. Your whole thing is the Eagles are this unstoppable juggernaut who rolled over Jaden Daniels in Washington and rolled over the Chiefs. Yeah. They didn't roll over the Rams. No, the Rams, it is. They beat the rain. It was snowy. That should benefit them. They're from Philly. This team's from sunny Los Angeles with an old man at quarterback. Why are we giving him credit for coming close? The same reason we gave

Josh Allen credit for coming close. Like, what do you mean? That happened all the No, I mean, he's got her. He's got a Super Bowl. How many times have you said Brock Purdy left the field with the lead? He came close. Well, that's true. He did. Stafford didn't leave the field with the league.

No, he did not. No, he got sacked down six at the 13-yard line. He's tiered two. No, it's not. But here's the thing, Brew, he's not tiered. The thing is, he's not. And you guys can act like me and coach are out of our minds. Again, you can act like me and coach are out of our minds.

Again, you can act like me and coach are out of our minds. mind, this list, which you seem to agree with in large part. This is the worst thing on the list. And I don't want to come off like a Stafford Hader. He's just tier two. I mean, there are 50 people from a cross-nexon. So just for the record, it's a pretty good. It wasn't, he hasn't fifth.

It was 26 and 23rd. I wouldn't be as mad. And he got a tier three vote. I wouldn't be as mad at him being fifth. I don't think he's fifth, but I wouldn't be as mad about that if he was second tier. I will put Jaden. But again, it's fluid. Which would be the other, which would be the other guy that I had in this, I had Safford and Jade.

And if they played what would happen, if they got, if Jaden played Jalen Hertz, what would happen? Well, can I have guys that just like, they outplayed him? Hold on. Unless Jalen Hurts is playing corner, it won't matter. Do you, because you keep getting frustrated that you seem to think we are, and I don't think we're saying this, but we would not move Jalen up. Is there anything that can happen this year where you'd move him down? Of course.

If he loses games. No, but hold on. If he plays poorly and loses games. But KW, that's literally what happened the year before. I'm not talking about the year before. I didn't research the year before. No, no, no. The year before they lost, they were 11 and no, they lost a bunch of games.

No, no, no. I wasn't here singing his praise. No, but my point is he moved up. He was here. He moved down because of that year. And now this year, he moved up. And so, like, you're, like, I just don't know. I think it's like, you know, Brad,

pit having a bad hair day. I think it's like you don't kill them for it. Not a lot of people going in the draft saying evaluating quarterbacks based on how well they do the tush push. You know what I mean? It's not like, oh, hey, what's the grade you got on the push push push? What's our best case scenario? Like, well, here's a quarterback that can win the Super Bowl, but here's a guy who can light up your fantasy football. And the GMs are like, my son plays fantasy. Let's go with this guy. But Stafford literally won a Super Bowl. I think Stafford's fine. I don't I don't think Stafford can throw a pass right now. Who's that other Philly quarterback that won the Super Bowl?

I think they, listen, I don't think they, I don't think that's a Bud Light ad. I don't think that they incorporated off-season injury into this ranking for the record. I don't think anyone thinks Matt Stafford if he's injured is Tier 1. But I don't think. But I don't think. But I don't think. He's definitely not as, he's definitely not as versatile. But versatility is not.

I don't think he can solve as many problems on the field as James. Really? Oh, that I think's interesting. I think that's interesting. No, I think they both solve very different problems. We do a lot of third and nine. Yes. To retort.

If it's fourth and two, I'm 100% sure one guy's going to get it. And I don't know about the other guy. If it's fourth and one, I'll have been, I'm in 185. If it's fourth and one. That's definitely true. And Matthew Stafford's there and Jalen Hart's there. I'm 100% we can start planning the next offensive series. No, that's fair.

So I think that's, a fourth and one happens a lot. But that's not, that's not more versatile. That's a different skill set. I agree with you. There are certainly things, Jail Leridge does better than Matt Stafford. You could draft a Tush Push specialist. I think that that would be a solve for what it's hard. 37-year-old Matt.

Covered in confetti. Maybe I'm not good. He barely made two. Smoking on a cigar. Nobody thinks he's not good. He's tied for knife. Tied for nothing. That's where he is.

Welcome back to first things first news from Portland. Alex Polo clenches his fourth Indy car title in five years. You won eight races this year, including Indy. And Nick, you correctly predicted. The Chiefs fan, Polo, driving a red and yellow car, nailed the three-peat. Yeah, this is a really cruel turn of events, Brew. Because KW is known for a few things at this point. One is one of those handsome men on sports TV.

It's undeniable. Not too hard of them. I understand. It's not, Kyle Brands out there, though, Joel Clatt. There's a few. There's that. National Treasure. But sports take-wise, he's known for whoever just won.

They're winning again. A little recency bias. Across the board, every sport. Whoever just won is winning again. except for IndyCar, when the guy who won and then won again and then sure looked like he was going to win again, that's where KW took a stand and was like, you know what? Not this year. And so I can't figure it out.

Brew, you can't figure it out. I wonder if Alex Palo can figure it out. Alex, how the hell does this guy not get this one wrong? Congratulations. Thank you, guys. Thank you so much for having me. Yeah, of course, man. Big congrats, big shout out.

Congratulations. At what point did the three-peat become your singular goal? I know it was a goal at the beginning of the year, but you won, once you get past the Indy 500, at what point did the three-peat become the only thing that was top of mind for you? Honestly, once we started the year, that was the amazing opportunity we had to do a three-peat. That was something that only two people had ever done in IndyCar. One of those guys was driving the tank car that I'm driving now, and it's still in the team as a coach.

So I didn't want him to be above me. I didn't want him to talk to me a little bit higher because he got a free pit and I didn't. That guy is tired from Kitty, who ended up winning four championships and three in the five hundreds. So that's why. That was the goal. It was amazing that we got the 500 as well that the same year.

And I'm glad that we got the first repeat on my career. Congratulations. You did what the Chiefs couldn't do. So that warned my heart. No, you're doing great. I want to talk about something specific that I thought was pretty awesome. Once Pato goes down, you're right close to the lead, and you know, you got some races left. You end up losing, well, I'll say losing control.

of the car. And some people were saying because you were being so aggressive that you were probably going to win with just, you know, finishing high, but you decided to go for the win and you almost cost yourself. What's going through your mind here? And personally, I thought it was great that you were just always thinking about winning the race and not just winning the title. Yeah, so basically, I knew that our closest competitor had a mechanical issue and he was not going to be able to score the points he needed to win or fight again. for the championship. So the only thing I had in mind then was just to try and win the race. We were third at that time. That was four laps to go. When I'm there on the grass,

I didn't lose control, by the way. That's 100% under control, just so you know. Even today, Alex, he can't help himself but to doubt it. It's unbelievable. You get it on the gravel and you're fine. He's like got a little loose in the corner there. It's unbelievable. I'm glad you said him straight. To me there. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, thank you. But, yeah, basically, I just tried to go for the win.

It was a risky move, obviously, but at the same time, that's what we're there for. We're there to win. I wanted to try everything for myself, for the team, for the fans that were there. I wanted to give a bit of a show. It didn't work. We ended up finishing third, but, yeah, we tried our best. You're chasing, got a chance to tie A.J. Foyt and Out. answer for the most victories in a season.

At 10, you're at 8. How big was that in your mind? If you had won this week, you could have gone for 11 and beat both of them. How much of a goal was that for you? It's super cool that we're in that position. I never thought I would be in this position. Like to get eight wins in the season is crazy. Last year, I only got two, which felt really good and actually won the season.

season the championship as well, but we only won two and this year we are up to eight. So that's a goal that it wasn't really a goal like it's there and I know that in order to try and get closer to that goal, what we need to do is to win more races. So that's why also yesterday I was trying my best just to try and win it to be at nine and see if we could make it now to be able to match those 10 we need to win the last two races of the season, which are going to be tough. They're not my best tracks, but we'll give everything we have. That's our only goal now towards the end of the season.

All right. So, Alex, here's something that I, to be totally honest, don't totally understand how it's possible. You see in other motorsports guys sometimes go on runs like this. But the answer in those things is usually they have the best car. Like they just flatly their technology, there is better. Indy car, everyone is basically driving the same car. You guys all have the same shell. You all, you know, there's only, what, a couple different places you can get the engines from.

Like, you guys are all, I don't want to say the cars are interchangeable, but the tools are pretty even. So with that being the case, how does someone have a season like you're having? Like, what is, I'm not trying to have you explain your secret, but how can that happen whenever, everyone's kind of starting from a similar place. Yeah, we basically have the exact same cars. The only thing that changes is the engine. And you can get it from only two manufacturers. Honda and Chevy, we're driving Honda.

So the specs are really, really equal. They are the same. What it changes is the team that you have behind. It's not the same to just put a car together, then to put it very nicely to try and have the best engineers to get the best setup every single racetrack. Like whenever the temperature goes up on ambient temperature, what do we need to do in the car to try and be a little bit faster than everybody else? And how do we adapt from going from a road course to a street course to an oval?

Like those sorts of stuff, it all depends on our engineering and mechanical group. So having a great team behind you, it helps. But at the end of the day, we're driving the same cars. Like I don't have a different wing configuration or a different part that I can put in the car. compared to anybody else. Alex, is it fair to say like ovals were your weakness coming into the year and it feels like you check that box?

As you look forward, is there something else that you say, all right, I really need to climb this hill, I need to get better at this for next year? Yeah, this year was my first ever win on an oval, was at the 500, actually. Then after that, we got another win in Iowa at a short oval.

So we kind of ticked it. I wouldn't say it's a full tick. I think we're still my weakness. Like it's where I struggle the most to feel 100% with the car, to know exactly what do I need from the car to go a little bit faster. So that's what I need to work on the most. I need to work on my short-obles skills and see if we can be a little bit stronger there.

When you were on with us in Indianapolis four months ago, you said you're chasing Scott Dixon to become the goat. Now, how much closer do you think you are in that pursuit? I think maybe one step, but maybe we still have like 10 steps to go. Honestly, he's my teammate. He's, in my opinion, he's the best that's ever done this sport. Basically, he has six Indycard championships, but the ability he's had to do it in a span of like 23 seasons and to be still at the top, he's currently third in the championship.

Like, I think that's pretty rare to do. That's pretty tough to do. So he's by far the goat. And yeah, we still have those nine more steps to try and reach him. So, yeah, I'll keep on working. So traditionally, at least over the last 20 years, the IndyCar Championship has come down to the final race, sometimes the final few laps of the final race.

The only person to clinch a championship in the last, I think, 20 years, prior to the final race was you a couple years ago. You've now clinched it with two races to go. Maybe this is dumb question. I apologize on the front end. Is there any thought of might take this weekend off? Or like the, like, no chance. And like, but do you, can you touch back on your experience of the last time you had it clinched

to be able to be dialed in or does it give you a freedom to purely go for a victory because the season long points don't matter at all? anymore. Yeah, I mean, it's very rare. It's something that we don't see very often in our sport. Yeah, as you said, in the last 20 years, only twice. And I believe, and it was just like us three years ago and this year. But I think this year has been really rare where we just had the ability to capitalize on some other people mistakes. And we've been able to win so many races, getting so many points and not having any mechanical issues and basically that just skyrocketed at our point. So I think it's very rare.

It gives us the opportunity now heading into the last two races to try and go a little bit more aggressive, obviously. Like I'm fighting for wins. That's it, 100%. That's all it matters. Obviously, I'll try and help the team as much as I can. But all I need to do is try and improve the car, improve myself and go for the win. That's it.

That's all we care about. It's not going to be about second place. third places, it's only about the win. See, that's what I like. I mean, yeah, of course. That's what I like. See, that's what I want to say that. I was teaching him a little bit.

So I would, the next race, not this Sunday, the following Sunday in Milwaukee. And then Alex, after the season's over, we want you to come in the studio. And then we'll see you. If that doesn't worry, we'll see you at Indy. And I'm ready to say, Polo guy. No, you're not in, not a lot. Polo guy. Yeah, he got it.

Yeah, he's going for wins, man. He's out here trying to win. He's racking up wins. Got me. That counts too. Alex, remember those of us that were with you from the beginning and by the beginning when you were only a back-to-back tramp. Growing the sport at the same time.

Alex, 100%. But it's better that he joins than if he's not joining. So, yeah. Better late than never. Totally disagree. I'd rather him be on the outside. Alex, thank you very much. Good luck in the rest of the season.

Thank you, guys. Be well. See you. Oh, we are still talking about the athletics quarterback tiers. Brock Purdy falling in tier two, which is a fluid tier, bro. You like that. You were justified here. I mean, again, they don't say that.

Justify. They don't say tier two. Nick, what usually, did I cut you off? No, go ahead. No, how big usually is tier two? In there? Because you seem to think, like this is what I've said tier two should be. Yeah, okay.

Is it usually much smaller? I don't know. In the athletic poll, I don't know. I do know that this is once again where coach and I have an opinion. I, more so than coach, catch the ire of that side of the table. And then it's an exact lockstep with the NFL intelligenceia. Brew, every time. This is easy.

No. No. I said he's tears too. How dare you? This is exactly what I'm saying. 14 is what we're focused on. No, no, not me. I'm focused on tier two.

See, because 14 and 9, not much difference to me. But again, this year it might be totally different at the end of the season. But every time. But these are the guys. Mahomes Mountain comes out and he's on row five, which is quarterback's 11 through 15. I get pillory. What's row five? Again, again, I try to be a little more exact than this.

Than this? 11 guys were on tier 2 last year. 11. Okay. And this year it's nine. So I am the one who is vindicated. You are. I said, coach, that tier 2 is about nine or 10 guys and it's fluid.

What about brought? But I have no problem where he's rating. At no point, have you ever been okay with me saying, okay, if you're right and tier two his guys five through 15, Brock Purdy's dead last in that tier. I don't care about the fifth because I'm dead serious. And I put Stafford in that group, but let's say now

for this sake of argument, six to 14, because I don't think Purdy will be 14 at the end of the season. I think you can argue he could be ahead of DAC and C.J. Stroud in this list. But as long as he's tier two, because this is going to change this season.

Like, Tier 1 is going to stay the same. We know the top four is going to stay the same. This, these guys are going to be ranked different places next year. And Purdy, I think you'll still be in Tier 2. And isn't this different than Mahomes Mowen? Or Mahomes Mowen, it doesn't matter left or right. But here, doesn't it matter left or right? Yeah, no, he's 14.

He is legitimately 14 in Tier 2. Thank you, Coach. So I think there is some significance in that because they have taken the time to say Tier 2 isn't like Mahomes' bottom. Everybody is together. He's high three. Yeah, exactly right. Like Safford's a high two, you mean?

He's on the verge of being relegated. Two? Exactly right. He's tier two. He is one voter away. I'm happy. I'm happy. You are not.

And by the way, I'm going to say, I'm going to bring us something else. Like I said, only DAC and CJ and I like, I like. By the way, CJ came in 39 on that top 100 list. So I don't know if that give you to hope that 40 is going to show up. He just came out today 39. No, I think Purdy's cooked on that list. They're on the same tier, though. But I want to show you a quote from this article.

That just means the players got it wrong. To you, Kevin Wilde. What happened? A quote from the article. Because this could have come from me. But if I just said this, you got in smoke coming out to yours. When you play Sam Fran, you're thinking about McCaffrey, thing about Kittle, thing about Iy. Friend of the Shoe.

You know, Purdy will get it to them, but you are not necessarily thinking about Purdy. You are facing their defense, all those skill guys, Kyle Shanahan. Why didn't you quote the other? There's another quote in there, too. Put it up then, Brew. I mean, I don't, I can recite it. The draft is over. Yeah.

The guy has played really well. Give him his credit. That was a quote, too. But I'm curious, this is, this wasn't even at you, Brew. This is because Wild is the one who yells at me about it. You get off the hook with the whole, it's fluid. Who knows? He's somewhere in the needy middle.

It's true. That sentiment is the exact thing I've said on the show. show for two years and you have gotten thrown, you've broken pencils, you've ripped up paper. You ripped up. Yeah, absolutely. And you're like, what do you want the, I don't play fantasy football or some nonsense you say? It seems to be what coach and I think of Purdy is what the NFL thinks of. If you have good, if you have good players around you and your name's not Joe Burrow, then there's nothing you can do. You're just stuck. It doesn't matter what you do. If you have a good player on your team. A good wide receiver.

That guy's no good. The wide receiver is good. Except for Joe Burrow, who literally has two number one receivers and Yoshavaz might be number one on several teams. Couldn't that quote, though, not to go backwards, couldn't that quote easily bend Jalen Hurd? Wow, here we go. And he just insert it and then he put Sequin Barkley, the defense, you know, like you just go right on down the line.

The coach is no good. Well, yeah. The coach is no good and the quarterback's no good somehow. No, you think, but you think the coaches right. You know what? You guys have convinced me. I don't know if Jalen Hertz can win the Super Bowl. No, that's got me.

You guys are right. All the national media is right. I, you finally got me. Jalen Hertz does not have what it takes to win the Super Bowl. You got me. He doesn't. He doesn't have it. He does not.

He can't do it. It doesn't say that. Tier 2 says they can win a Super Bowl. Yes. They just need help to win the Super Bowl. Some differing you. But what is? in some universe far, far away, the whole world is recreated, but Jalen Hertz is actually on the

Jags. Then could he win? Well, he's got as many Super Rules for Philly as Nick Folles, so I guess Nick Folles is a tear one here. I'm just amazed Nick tried to turn this into a W for him. What? It was 14. I've been saying he's tier two. That's exactly where he's on the mountain and you get mad. He's fluid. No, if you put it to a mound, the mountain doesn't have to. Exactly what I'm I'm not to write. Wonderful. So weird and wonderful. Start with the wonderful.

Patriots Commanders, first preseason game post-Tom Brady statue unveiling. Trivion Henderson from Ohio State. Well, he looks good. That's exactly. Now, is he Jemir Gibbs? Maybe not yet. But 100 yards off the jump coach. I was listening to Molesy and Sully brought to you by Dunkin' Donuts,

and somebody said his. floor is Jamir Gibbs. And the other guy said, oh, that seems a little much. I don't know if he said. He said at the very least, by the way, what I'm talking about is the Bill Simmons podcast with Kevin Wilde's on it, where Simmons said, and I quote, at the very least, he's Jamir Gibbs. Yeah, 100 yards pretty good.

At the very least, he might be the best running back in football. That's his floor. Very good right now. I'm just telling you it looks very good. That is a great start. That is a great start. Also, is he going to be your kick returner? Maybe.

I hope this isn't the highlight. Our head coach was catching touchdowns in the Super Bowl. Well, he looked good as a runner back. Wonderful. Giants Bills. Jackson Dart, who Ramsey keeps talking about his aura. He looks pretty good. I thought he had too much aura in a bad way.

He might have just the right amount. I thought he played really well this game. He threw outside for the touch. He threw to a corner route, which was really nice. He threw it over the middle. I'd be nervous if I were Russ. You would be. I'd be getting nervous if I were Russ.

Yeah. Because Russ played. And it's not like Russ's training camp reports. I don't know if Bruce read him, but if he hadn't read him, he could write him. They said it's all dumpoffs and moon balls. That's it in practice. That's all he did in Pittsburgh last year. But this is practice.

Yeah. And so, yeah, I mean, they. Interesting. This would be interesting. Russ is thin down. Seattle, Ross. People thought he run a little bit, but I don't know if he's a tram. That's a big thrime throw.

I give the kid credit. That's a big time throw. And he has two really good strambles in this game, too. Wonderful. Braves Marlins, Jurekson Profar, catch of the year. This is catch of the year, bro. Watch, bro. No, I've seen it.

It was a great catch. This is on the metal stand for catch of the year. Yes, I will give you that. And he just, I got to also tell you, The response, almost nonchalant, like, yeah, of course I did that. I loved it. Y'all know where I'm at. It was a great catch, though.

Dusty's telling me the wall's too low. I like that. Well, that's the difference. Denzel Clark's catch, the only one I've seen better than this, the wall was like twice as high. That's the difference. Well, it was the size of that. You got to take the size of the wall. Like, it was the size of the rest.

You see the rest of the wall. He was at a short spot. That's a nice height wall. That's the difference. I would like a wall like a castle would just, different parts like this. So you have to know where you're. You don't know where you are.

Maybe you're crashing. Like you're random on an elliptical machine or random. You are on the elliptical. I thought you were lying to us. How's your cap? With the straining calf. It's getting better. I'll be jumping rope in a few weeks.

I don't know. We're just going to show up here with, you know, hop to killies. I don't love it. San Fran versus the Broncos. I took out Mack Jones's pillowy completion so you could But this is why the Chiefs aren't going to win the division. I mean, this is the, watch out, guys. This guy's coming for you.

That was unwise. I mean, again, one plays not everything. I'm just here to tell you that guy is not dethroning Patrick Mahomes this year. I'm telling you that. Dethroning from what, Mulho's Mount. The AFC West. The AFC West. That's fair.

I mean, I can't believe that's a high. hot tape. I'm telling you. Patrick Mahomes is better than bonnet. I don't know. Where did Simmons have him on a stupid little fake mountain? He did. Mahomes is second tier.

Second tier. Right. Exactly right. He's tiered too. Well, he was second row. Listen, it was a really smart discussion about how Mahomes got blown out in the Super Bowl, so Josh Allen jumped in because Mahomes beat Josh.

And who defended Patrick Mahomes? You did a decent job. Surprise, surprise. Mahomes guy. I'm beloved in Kansas City. I'll be honest, I listen to that part. and I was like, I missed that guy. I miss that guy.

You're killing him for this play? Bo Nix? Yeah. I'm not killing him. He got rid of it. It's a good play. I know this. I know that if the answer is always unblocked, what's he going to do?

We put Anthony Richardson in the CFL for not diagnosing an unblocked man. Yeah, well, this guy's not getting carted off the field. No, instead he's costing his team two points. Hey, you know what? Anthony Richardson took one for the team. Bo Nix two points and out of there. Wonderful. his son, Asia Wilson,

pulls down rebound number 20 right here. She gets 32 and 20 on the night, which is the first time in WMBA history. She's building a case. I'm not going to do this list right now, but is a top 10 WMBA player ever? Oh, yeah. Ever.

You agree with me, Brooke? Building a case, absolutely. Well, she got three MVPs, right? Yeah, I mean. How you do it, right? Say it again. Three MVPs doesn't get your top 10? But I don't think, I think

I know I got to run through it west. Cynthia Cooper, Cheryl swoops, there's going to, like, Lisa Leslie. Yeah, I mean, Tarasi, Bird, Parker is six. You know what? Let me rephrase it. She's in the top ten.

Because there's only like, there's, I don't think there's 10 people you can make a case against over her. Yeah. I think three MVPs would seal that. Yeah. She's sweet. She's on blue. More first things first after the break.

We're talking about Kevin Stefansky. Who's he going to start against the Eagles? We discussed. Thanks. Kevin Spansky, not ready to name a preseason starter for game two when the Browns go into Philadelphia. Should this be Shador? Brew, I think letting Gabriel start week two is fair.

But I think that he can start week two without it necessarily being like first half, second half.