First Things First - Argentina beat England, George Pickens to play on Franchise Tag, BUD List, Rob Stone joins

Episode Date: July 16, 2026

(0:00) Argentina beat England (24:20) George Pickens to play on Franchise Tag (33:14) How impressive is Messi? (43:14) BUD List (01:03:43) Argentina comeback or England collapse? (01:12:01) Rob Stone joins (01:23:08)Have Argentina or Spain been more impressive this World Cup? (01:44:30) Frenemies (01:57:58) Will George Pickens have a big year or disappoint? (02:04:29) Is this the best World Cup ever? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The excitement of the FIFA World Cup is now streaming live on Fox One, the official English streaming platform to catch every unforgettable moment. Fox One brings the action straight to your screen so you never miss a goal. Download Fox One and experience the FIFA World Cup live. Today in the FIFA World Cup semifinal with historic proportions as England take on Argentina. Rogers' chance to cross hooks and it's gone! SIE on Spence. Find space for that left foot into the middle.

Ends up Fernandez-Oferend to Argentina. It's a show that's not upset, but is disappointed. And I'm not English. I've been to London twice. And I was furious, bro. I was just disgusted. It was not about what England did. It's about who Argentina is.

At all? I mean, I mean. They did a little something. I, listen, what you're saying, What I'm saying is the general consensus. You're certainly on the side of the masses here. I'm going to see if I can. I'm saying most people agree with your take.

Yeah, the sun is hot. Including all the experts on. Well, all the experts are almost all English people who are upset. It's ridiculous. I'm going to try to sway you in the first 10 minutes of the show. I dare you. First hour of first things first. Today, messy magic fuels another Argentine comeback.

How much did England? Help. Meanwhile, Rob Stone coming up to talk about Sunday's final between Yamal and Messi. And finally, the most motivational segment in all of sports, the bud list, Jude Bellingham. What's going on? I like Jude. I'm a fan of Jews. I think he's ripping the goalie at that right there. I'm a fan of Jude as well. He's feisty.

You like him slapping guys on the back of the head? That one I actually didn't mind that much. That guy was being a jerk. That guy didn't play in the game and Jude said called him a loser when he was congratulating the other team. So Jude hit him. You know what's very interesting about the... He called Jude a loser? Yeah.

Yeah. And didn't play. The world of soccer, you can do a lot of like, just like... There's a lot of like 2.0 level mushing. Yeah. Like, in America, we just really have the mush. Yeah. They get a lot of like, hey.

Like, come talk to me. Like, oh. Oh my gosh, what's going on? Well, one of the greatest players in his in soccer history in a World Cup final invented the head punch. He invented that. It hasn't been used much since. He didn't head butt lowered his head did one of those jobs out of there. People should consider it.

I know, yeah. It was effective. It should be on the board. Nobody sees it coming. Yeah. Keep it in mind. We start in Atlanta. England goes up one in the 55th minute.

Then they decided to play prevent defense. It prevented them from winning the game. Argentina scores the equalizer at 85, go ahead at 92, both assisted by Messi, and now he's headed back to the World Cup final. Here was Henri's take on the game. One thing that Scalo did exactly the same against Switzerland, Egypt, he put the little man on the right. Not in the middle into traffic. He put him on the right. They are attracted on his right, obviously, they are attracted on the right of the opposition.

to give him the ball in 1v1, to go back on his left and cross. And actually, by the way, he went on his right to cross also. So what I'm saying is they're the world champion for a reason. Okay, you've been big on this. I would say this is, if this is not a classic one, it's close to a classic one. About that Argentina is going to win the way they've won every knockout game? Yeah. And that they believe there's some bigger things at play here?

Yeah. Listen, Brew is understandably skeptical of me in this regard because Argentina was not my pick from the beginning of the tournament. Now, some would say I'm a lifelong, everyone knows it, right side of the bracket loyalist. I didn't stray from that. A South American soccer loyalist. People have said that. However, what I will say at the very front end, one of the reasons I didn't think Argentina would make the final. I thought they'd make the semifinal.

know, I like their draw, you know, getting there, was because going into the tournament, I incorrectly thought, okay, their best player, Messi, is, you know, probably the 15th best player in the tournament. He's, you know, I don't think he was a consensus, top 10 player in the world going into this tournament. I don't think, and so I thought there is his age and the fact that people thought after they won the last World Cup,

he wouldn't even playing here, the fact that he now plays in. MLS instead of the huge leagues. It just, I, so I didn't think they were going to, I knew they had the goat or at the time, arguably the goat on their team, but I didn't think, I thought it was going to be honestly much closer to LeBron at this point of his career. Still great, still one of the best, but you can't credibly make the case he is the best. Yep.

But it turns out he might be better than ever. And this is where it does brew my. belief now in Argentina have a lot of similarities to the last time the team I picked in a tournament went out super early and I switched to the eventual champion, which was what happened with the Knicks. I saw what the Knicks were doing throughout the playoffs and I just decided to have the scorching hot take of, I believe it. Yeah. I think it's real. Even if none of us saw it coming, even if it's inexplicable, even if it seems like there's no precedent for it, it's real.

And what I'm seeing with Argentina, the fact that they are in the World Cup final, they have yet to go to penalty kicks, and they have not led at the 90th minute of a single game, it's nuts. Makes it feel like this is just real. It's a good take. And there is enough of a, you know, almost placebo effect, I think. on the opposition that they also in the back of their head think something special is going on with this team and it forces them into either uncharacteristic decisions overly cautious

play losing their mind temporarily and it all it feels like to where it is a self-fulfilling prophecy that this is going to happen because the other thing about yesterday's game brew. They could have scored six goals in the final half hour. Yeah. They hit the post twice. They had a breakaway that Spence had the amazing stop on. And Pickford made the one great save. And then there's the two goals. The moment, like from the, the hydration break on, Argentina had the ball. And this is a criticism of England I know we'll get to.

Argentina was just peppering them. And Messi was playing, I think perfect soccer. And so I did I think they were going to win in 90 minutes when they were down one nothing in the 85th minute? No. But at any point watching yesterday's game was I like, I think they're going to lose. I didn't. Noah, look, congratulations. Thank you. It's your team versus my team.

I guess. I guess. You got around Argentina eventually. But look, you guys know, when you're on the third floor, eating and guffawing with the staff. Yeah, y'all having a party down there. I'm up on the fourth floor grinding. That's true.

Yeah. I'm watching film. I'm in the archives. I'm digging into crates, as they would say. Sometimes making calls. And I came upon something from, I mentioned the archives. I came upon something that we all partook in six weeks ago. and I just happened to see this.

You switched! I'm just saying, that is essentially a perfect bracket, but for the Americans. Down there in the right corner. Sadly, Brazil as well. Brazil. You gave Brazil. They didn't get that far?

No, they lost the round before. But the final four and the final two is perfect. Now, I agreed with it. I did change. You also got a couple weeks ago. is also wrong. A couple, I'm talking about the final four. Did you have your final four right?

No, no. A couple weeks ago, I did go with England, so I won't gloat. Yeah. I won't glow. I'm just saying, in the beginning, this was what I had. Okay. And now I am sticking with Spain, but I will credit Argentina. Great comeback.

I will get to Thomas Tuchel and his, this Tuchel and his, this too cool and his decisions. But I do have to credit Argentina because you're right, Nick. Even though I disagree with a lot of what England did, I think they contributed to this. You are fully

within reason to be like Argentina was going to find a way. Even if England had not made some of those changes, Argentina was going to find a way. Now, I was seriously doubting. I thought they were done. And I know it was only 1-0,

but I felt like England had them beat and we're going to win that game and like I said we'll get at 1.0 or like five minutes after 1.0 because at 1 o I agree with you. At 1.0 I felt once we're in the 60 minutes. Well once they started changing things which was immediate after they went up.

But yeah, at 1.0 I thought they had them. And I thought they could hold on but obviously they didn't. So I do credit Argentina. You cannot. I'll get to more of that later as we discussed it. But yeah, you got to credit them to me. Very rare take for me.

I'm full of rare takes these days. Yeah, if you don't watch our walking video, KW had a super rare thing. Yeah, what's your latest rare take? Yeah, my original ones I love sports. Yeah, I love sports. Yeah, singular. Other rare take, I totally agree with you and at the same time totally disagree. Oh, wow.

Wow, that is a rare take. Here's what it is. I totally agree with you that something. unique and it's time to believe in Argentina. But I don't think it is affecting the teams that they think something magical is happening. I almost think England and even Egypt are playing like, well, not us. That happens to other teams against Argentina, but that won't happen to us. If we play the same way that Egypt plays a little bit more passively, certainly they're not going to score these goals on us.

That has been their story, but not us. first 75 minutes, Argentina, this World Cup. They've scored seven goals of allowed six. The last 15, eight goals allowed none, four goals in extra time. They've scored the loud one. I just, I mean, we're going to get into the England side of things. I don't, I feel like if more managers felt the way you felt, the strategy would be doing. No, but so this is, but this is why I am adamant that I just think a disproportionate,

amount of the reaction to the game was about the failings of England rather than the team that came into the tournament, the number one team in the world, a team that is one game away from becoming the first team in the history of the sport to win four consecutive major tournaments, a team that has not lost a knockout round game this decade, a team that everyone now agrees has, or almost everyone, the greatest player of all time, and a guy who was about to become not only the only player ever, but unfathomably, a three-time golden ball winner at the World Cup, that team will find a way that that team also has the added benefit of

because they are the defending champions. It is, I do not think they have the level of anxiety that anyone else would have in these games in this moment. And you then add to all of it that the guy who's about to win the golden ball again, he's minus 8.50. So whether they win or lose, he's going to get MVP of the tournament, it would appear. Yeah, the golden ball. Golden ball, did I say boot?

The golden ball. No, you said ball. And he's also the favorite for the golden boot at this point. He has, there is a LeBron Brady. level of my mind is maybe better than it ever was. Yeah. And similar more to Brady than LeBron, athleticism was never the biggest part of my game.

Now, he obviously was very fast when he was young, but it's all skill stuff. And we still out there cooking. No, that's what I'm saying. That's what I mean. I'm saying like the fact that he is not the raw athlete he once was doesn't have the negative effect it does on Ronaldo or some of these. other all-time legendary great.

That's true. And so they are just, he's seen everything. They've been there before and they believe. And belief in sports really matters. On the other side of the ball, in like three lions, out like three lambs. Did you see what Colin said? Oh. The three lions lost to one Leo.

It's not bad. It's really good. England's defensive plan backfired. Get this stat. In the time that they were up one nothing brew to down to one, England possessed the ball for 12. 12% of the time. 12.

Argentina had the ball 88% of the time. Here's Thomas Tuchel and Harry Kane. We were so close, but we got too passive after we scored and conceded a lot of chances and could not turn the ball position around. The mindset of not trying to hang on too early. There's times for that, but also there's times when you still need to push and still need to try and create chances yourself. And we didn't do that well enough to.

to go off. Headline of the Sun, Oasis, is a wonder bomb. Sorry? That'll cost us a few thousand dollars. Number one reason for England's collapse, Brew. What do you got?

Well, look, as I said earlier, I do want to just give credit to Argentina in that there is a good reason to feel like they were going to win somehow anyway. All right, so I will, maybe if Tutu doesn't make any of the changes, they still lose.

All right? Because that's what Argentina's been doing, right? If they had never done this, this tournament, then you could totally put it all in England. But they, since they haven't, since they have been doing it, I think you had to give them credit.

But his, his, you had, you said the perfect line, prevent defense. And I always watch an NFL games and sometimes it backfires on these teams a lot. and if it doesn't cost them the game sometimes, it certainly makes it a lot closer and puts them in peril. And I always say,

you've been shutting them down playing your normal defense the whole game. And now you go pre-why? And this, they were beating. I thought they were out playing Argentina. It was only 1-0. It wasn't like a route or anything. But I thought they were out playing them. And I thought they had,

they were going to be able to win this game. And they totally switch. They go defensive. They substitute some offensive players for some attackers for defensive players. You mentioned the 12% possession. That is the lowest in recorded history of the World Cup since they've been doing that, 1966. Tough one.

The lowest. Over any 10-minute stretch, period. And look at some of the mismatches you get in the World Cup. Yeah. And never has a team at that little. And the thing was this, Nick, and you alluded to it a bit earlier. When you know when you go to that type of strategy, Argentina, it was bombs away. They were just going to be able to attack.

And to think that you, not the best defense in this tournament by any stretch, right? And Pickford was fantastic. I thought he was great. They have the best player in the world right now, the way he's playing. the leading score in the tournament, you had to realize if they keep getting chances, if they keep getting shots, some of them are going to go in and we're going to lose.

And that was not in his thinking. And so I just thought the total passive approach, not attacking way too early. You have like 45 minutes left, including extra time. Or they acted as if they were up to nothing. They acted as if either it was one nothing in the 80th minute or two nothing in the 55th minute. Either way, that would have to me been reasonable to do what they did to your point. But yeah, go ahead.

This is just a hammer home how ugly it was for England's possession. Friend of the show, Paul Carr, full tweet, in the 30 minutes between Anthony Gordon's goal and Enzo Fernandez's equalizer, 168 attacking third touches, 14 in the penalty area for Argentina, nine attacking third touches for England, one in the penalty area. It just, it started to drive me nuts watching the game that this felt like, like you said, Drew, in a cross sports fatal flaw of,

I don't want to use this word, but I guess I've seen the English tabloids use it, while he's a cowardice. Yeah. Yeah. That's a great word for it. No, but that's the... They didn't play to win.

They played not to lose. It's why they fired the previous manager. They thought that Tuchel would be more aggressive. It's why in England right now they're calling for him, not just to be fired, but people saying, I'm shocked he's yet to resign. They're pretty mad. They're putting it on him in his defense, light defense. It is exactly what they did against Mexico and won.

Now, Mexico does not have the attacking town in Argentina does, and England was down to 10 men. So that, you know, that obviously are massively different circumstances. Had they held on, obviously nobody would have an issue with it, but it felt like they, I don't even know if nobody had an issue with it because it did feel like it was, a goal felt inevitable. Two didn't. One did.

and because of the subs he had made if at any point Argentina tied it you were going to be in rough shape because you're going to, how are you going to go get the goal you need? Can I give a slight different reason because everyone's talking about Thomas Tuchel? Sure. So this meme, this moment

is out there everywhere. Messy doing the De Niro. Yeah. This thing right here and we can play it for you. After Bellingham early in the game, I'm pretty sure we can play it for you. Bellingham early in the game says something to him and Messi does one of those. Yep.

This is a 45-second soundbite from Tieri-Arenri after the Egypt game that I think is very prophetic about not making the little man mad. Play it, please. I played with him, as you just mentioned. And what happened with Leo is that sometimes do not wake up the beast. That's what happened. And I've seen it in training closely. You know, when you're in training sometime and, you know, guys, when one of the coaches

don't want to call a foul or the ball was out and then you score and then Leo wanted that ball to be out and a foul and then he goes ball went out and the coach was like stop complaining because it can happen in the game next thing you know you look at his eyes and he switches and he goes and get that ball I was there I witnessed it and he scores three goals in a row by scoring straight away rubbing the ball of you scoring again rubbing the ball of you scoring again And then it turns it's the next time I'm called a foul. I mean, pretty sec. And so like there is to me a level of what happened was the best player we've ever seen activated an extra mode.

There is a I tweeted it out, but it's since been taken away because I don't think they had the rights to the video or whatever. But it's every touch Messi has. Oh, I watched it. Every time he touches the ball once they go down. one nothing. And it's like, wait, is this 37 consecutive perfect place? Like they, they obviously don't, but it's like he evades a tackle, delivers a pass. Avade, like, finds the ball, it gets it it upfield. There's chance after chance. It's just repeatedly getting, putting the ball in dangerous places, seeing if his teammates can respond to it. And so I think, you know, I don't want to be

a broken record. I think the biggest reason England lost was because Messi was not going to allow Argentina to lose. And I don't, we don't know what it would have looked like had England stayed aggressive. Maybe they do add another goal, but maybe then the back end is a little more vulnerable and Messi scores because they did a good job of forcing Messi from the middle of field to the side. Yeah. What they forgot is he's also the greatest passer ever. Tough one. And so he's just delivering it on a platter. And the thing is, go up 1-0, again, your defense hasn't been terrific throughout the tournament.

You've given up six goals. And they were the best offense in the tournament, the highest-scoring team. Did Tucco really think we're going to win 1-0? Yes. You know what I mean? The answer to that is clearly yes. But should you be thinking that when you don't have Spain's defense, they've been the higher-scoring team?

Like you had to feel like we're going to have to keep scoring to win this game. And he just wasn't thinking that at all. We're not going to get to a full discussion. about the Sunday's game, we will later in the show, but quickly, brew. If Spain goes up 1-0, they're your team, they're your pick, they've got the best defense in the whole tournament. Do you want them to be further back? I think you have to keep playing.

You got to play to win. You can't play not to lose. Now, if you get up, as Nick said, 2-0, and you've got this spectacular defense, that's another thing. And they're midfield. I know England's midfield is good, too. But, you know, so it's a little different circumstances, but one oh, no. Okay.

One, oh, is not enough. Okay. More on this game throughout the show. We'll talk about George Pickens going to play the whole year on the franchise tag. And, of course, we're counting down to the final two days, 23 hours, 35 minutes. I like the seconds there. I love that. From New York, Sunday at three.

Welcome back to first things first two days until the World Cup final. Yamal, Barcelona, number 10. Messi, Barcelona, number 10, Sunday at 3 from New York. A lot of parallels here, maybe a little bit of a torch passing. This is kind of awesome, awesome storylines. Head to American football. Yesterday was the last day to sign extensions, which means George Pickens will play on the franchise tag.

Great numbers last year was CD in and out of the lineup. He was ninth in targets, eighth in receptions, who's third in yards and had nine touchdowns. which is tied for eighth best of all wide receivers. Brew is more likely Pickens has a huge year or he disappoints? Huge year. And I'm predicting a huge year. The only way he disappoints is if he implodes,

which is possible. I mean, that's been his problem throughout his career, imploding with a bad attitude, or I don't even know how to explain those last couple games late in the season last year when he just kind of checked out. You know, so he has to avoid those things. But the fact that he's signing, playing on the franchise tag, was at mini camp for three days,

has said he'll be at training camp and we'll play on this. Like somebody either got to him or he's matured and understands the only way I can get this huge long-term contract next season is by playing lights out. And I've said it, Nick, you can't say he's better than CD-Land because of all his question marks. to me he's more talented than C.D. Lamb.

Really? I think he is more, I think he's one of the most talented receivers in the league. I think that's like a consensus opinion, no? One of the most talented. Talented. Hold on.

One of the most talented and more talented than C.D. Lamber two different things. I mean, C.D. Lam was a consensus first round pick. He was top, I think, 15th pick, like, top half of the first round. Yep. Was an unlike, so it's like,

C.L.L. C.L.L. It's not like an overachver. Right. He's the. But the catches he. even used to make in Pittsburgh. I think he's more spectacular.

I get it. We're parsing, but go ahead. Certainly last year he was definitely better and obviously C.D. was hurt. It had a down year. It had some drops. But I actually think he's going to play so well. They're going to have because I don't think they can keep them both. I mean, they can try to be the Bengals or whatever.

But I don't think they'll be to keep him after this season. And so I think they're going to keep CED, I'm sure. But I think he's going to have a phenomenal season for the Cowboys. Go ahead, Cato. I think the number one question I have, and I don't have the answer to it, so I'll put it to you. Is George Pickens the guy who goes for nine catches on 11 targets for 144 yards and a touchdown, like we saw?

Or is he the guy who played the Giants with three targets, one catch for nine yards? In my mind, when he first showed up in the, when he was let go by the Steelers, when he first showed up, I'm like, oh, I think, I think, think he's more this guy. But after watching him last year, 144 yards against the Raiders, 146 against the Eagles, nine targets, nine receptions. He was awesome.

Yeah. But that last, you know, maybe it's recency bias or sort of the last, you know, frame of the movie sticks with you. He didn't stick the landing when that Giants game happened.

He looked kind of spaced out on the sidelines. It was a big game. It was, he might have had a, The other game was, I think, against the commanders. I think he was good, but it was terrible moments. 78 yards, four catches for 78 yards. He was just checked out.

Yeah, that's the, and so listen, go ahead. No, that's it. So I'm rooting for him to be spectacular. So I want to give him credit for him handling the franchise tag, which no player likes, far better than I would have anticipated, that I anticipate most players to handle it, much less a player who has, I think, had some real issues controlling his emotions. You know what I mean?

I don't think he's a bad guy. I don't have no evidence he's a bad guy. But he's just, he has been very emotional and combustible on the field and even on the sidelines, dating back to college. And I thought this is the exact type of guy who is not going to handle, where was I, what was I, third in the league in yards? And you're not giving me a long term deal. Yeah, 1400 yards. Right, 1,400 yards. You're not giving me a long-term deal.

Instead, he almost snap accepted the franchise tag, signed it, which means he has to show up to the off-season stuff, and has not caused any issues. So I certainly, he is checking the boxes of what seems like he's maturing. And the only question mark that exists since he's been a cowboy is the end of the season where it was like he just seemed, was giving up on Rowder. and it was so frustrating because we were feeling like, don't you realize, like, this is your, if you just finish the year strong, you're probably going to get a long-term deal. Do you think that's a good question?

Like, had he not had those moments and just played lights out the whole season, does he get the deal? Does he get the deal or do the cowboys, does he get the deal from somebody else and the Cowboys trade him? Like, does he, if he finished, if he sticks the landing, if you will, Yep.

Is he worth a first round pick to my chiefs? Or, you know what I mean? Somebody that the bills traded a second for DJ more. He had almost a thousand more yards for DJ more. If he had truly answered all the questions as opposed to high profile national TV, what are you doing moments? And the broadcast. The broadcast killing him to how much did that hurt him?

And so I agree with Brew that it is more, another great year is more. likely, but I am, he is a scary player to me. And I don't, I don't blame the Cowboys at all for not giving him the long-term deal. I think that, I think that the, even if they didn't have a bunch of money tied up in C.D. Lamb, I still wouldn't have given him the long-term deal, because I do think you want to see a bigger body of work of what I would just call on-field professionalism and recognizing you can't you can't quit on

routes or quit. I'm not playing 17 games. It's not a hundred. It's not baseball. Like how you know what? I was out for that guardian game. And if, Brew, if you're right that he has a huge year, it probably goes hand in

hand with another, I know it's just in pencil, not pen, but you leaning towards picking the Cowboys to win the division and the Cowboys potentially being really good. If he has another huge year, they're going to have an elite offense. Even if

he doesn't, I mean, that's what Dak does. I've talked about that before. Where they could have moved on from him and probably still had an elite offense. With these two, him and CD, yeah. And Dak healthy, their offense is going to be great. Remember, are you going to are you ready for like a 5,000 yards

Dak? Did you debut that last year, two years ago? That was probably it's a hot take floating out of it. We're in the bold take. Bold take. People were talking about 6,000. That was ridiculous. Yeah, that was with the 7th.

I forget. I think he could be in the, he'll be in the MVP race. They win the division and he has his typical year when he's healthy. Yeah, he'll be in the MVP race. I am, I do think that if I were a Cowboys fan, I would go into this year saying, we have the best receiver duo. That even if they don't, but yeah. And, by the way, I think it's, if Pickens is the guy that you think he is,

or that he showed he was able to be. Maybe better than his sense of that. Even if Chase is the best of the three, I think both C.D. and Pickens are enough better than T. Higgins that you could say, and AJ and Devante aren't together anymore, like the, or Puka and the other Devante are together, but that Devante's older. I think you can certainly make the case, like, could we have two, two receivers combined for 2,500 yards, absolutely. Oh, yeah, yeah. You know what I mean?

It could be 1,3,200, which would be close to the record. So, yeah, I think that's absolutely on the board. Messi looking for back-to-back World Cup championships. He leads all players with chances created. The final is Sunday at 3 on Fox from New York. Messi assists on two goals. Argentina books their second straight trip to the 5th. finals. Messies has done it all, Dax, but the goals have been more spread out as we've gotten

closer to the final. First, nine goals. He had seven, everybody else had two. Last 10 goals, he's had one. Everyone else has nine. How impressed were you with Messi's performance? We're running out of superlatives, guys. We're running out of words to describe what we are seeing right now. Feels like a higher power is willing this Argentina team on, and that higher power as Leonel Messi. Literally, there has never been a player, certainly in the history of our sport, in the history of football soccer, that has been relied upon as much as he is with Argentina, that has more pressure on their shoulders than Leonel Messi does with Argentina, and yet no player

has consistently delivered at the level that he delivers at game in and game out, specifically with regard to the last two World Cups. it is hard to fathom. They are hard to analyze because you cannot analyze things that just feel almost predisposed to happen. Predetermined to happen. Like this Argentine and team, when I watch them play for 75 minutes, I'm like they are bang average team. And a team can do such a great job defending them, putting the game on their terms, going up a goal, going up two goals. Sevent minute hits.

and I thought Nick put it perfectly earlier. Everyone just starts to lose their minds. The teams that they play get discombobulated. They make poor decisions. The pressure starts to get to them. And yet the pressure never, ever gets to this team and Leonel Messi. And so I thought England did a really good job for 55, 60 minutes up until they scored in keeping the field compact, getting pressure on the ball when they needed to.

Leonel Messi was trying to find little gaps in between their midfield and their back, line and you saw a couple times or he would get on the ball, he'd be able to turn, he'd beat the first player, he would want to play a little give and go. And I was really impressed with England's structure. Declan Rice, Elliott Anderson, Jude Bellingham. We're doing a really good job of constantly looking where he was at. When Messi didn't have the ball, I would watch him, try to find space, and you would see Jude Bellingham. He would constantly be looking over his shoulder, pointing out his positioning. Hey, you need to pick him up. And Messi was, look, he was still. Almost like a man mark. Not really.

Because it is a job. There you go. It was a team effort. And so they did a really good job of that. But again, this goes into much deeper analysis of what happened in that second half when they scored the goal. Yes, Tuchel deserves a lot of blame. But even before he made the changes, England started to sag deeper and deeper and deeper. And they started to feel the pressure of what they knew was coming.

And then the changes didn't help them. Tuchel subbed on three defenders. and yet you still somehow allow Leonel Messi to go to the part of the field where he wants to go the most. That right half space where he can take advantage of numbers in the box. Look at that past. And England had zero outlet. That was my biggest problem with the substitutions. England, if you are going to try to see out a game, I thought you made a great point earlier, Bru, about they've scored the most goals in the tournament.

Right. Winning one zero seems like a really foolish plan of action. I just thought it was two things can be true. Leonel Messi's greatness and Argentina's resolve continue to come to the forefront in every single game. And then it was England playing right into their hands. They played scared. They played timid. They had zero outlet.

They didn't have any outlet in possession. They didn't have any threat on the counterattack. That is the recipe for disaster. Exactly what we saw. Yeah, he is just like, he looks like he's playing on a whole other level from even the greatest in the tournament. And it's kind of like we've talked about Tom Brady with his mind late in his career. Like I think of you, you said, is he still the best player in the world? I mean, Mbapé, when he, I know he's got three assists and Messie's only got four, one more.

But Mbapé, if he's not scoring, and I'm not questioning his greatness, but I don't see him impacting the game the way Metsi hasn't scored in the last two games, and he's been dominant. He's got three assists in the last two games. And yesterday, those, I mean, like you said, the first one, you talked about how he drew the double but or triple 10 really three guys on him

and then that pass but Yamal hasn't scored like him obviously Holland is just pretty much a score Kane doesn't impact the only one I could even and he's not on Messi's level but the only one I can say I think is having similar impact

would be bellying them in these last few games but he's obviously not on Messi's level but it's just he does so much to impact the game even if it's not scoring. So we joke with KW who's coined the phrase I love sport.

You really did that one did. That was original. Thank you. But and I'm a little jealous that he coined it. Because I am going, I am now probably going to be a little sappier than I need to be. But we all do this

because we really do love sports. And I sport. That's a far about you. I figure out a way around it. And I have found myself feeling, for lack of better term, a deep sense of gratitude that I am watching this play out in real time. That it feels to me like, oh, you know, I wasn't, you know, I wasn't around for Babe Ruth. I wasn't around.

But he was a great player. No. I am very jealous of my wife's grandfather who saw Muhammad Ali multiple times, you know, live. I don't know. I mean, watch. I saw Ali. No, I know.

But I saw the whole career is what I'm saying. And we have been very lucky in that, you know, in our lifetimes, we've been able to watch the entirety of Tiger, Brady, LeBron. I wasn't able to watch the entire of Tiger. entirety of Jordan you were, like these, these, you know, greater than greats of their sport. Being able to watch this player write this insane chapter of a book has been unlike anything I've experienced in sports because, and I don't want to do too much of like a history lesson on it, but Messi's First World Cup was 2006. He was a kid, whatever, you know what I mean?

People knew he was going to be a star he was a kid. 2010, though, he was one of, if not the U.S. player in the world, and Argentina flamed out, and they lost 4-0 to Germany, and he was criticized a little bit. And Argentina, keep in mind,

before Messi took the field, was the fourth most successful nation for soccer ever. It was Brazil, Germany, Italy, Argentina, before Messi was born, you know what I mean? That's where it was. And then in 2010, Bad World Cup, 2014, they played Germany in the final, they lose,

he gets MVP of the tournament. He's still criticized for it and briefly retires. 2018, they get popped in the first knockout round game to Mbapé and young Mbapé in France. And the announcer in that game says, surely this is his last game for Argentina. Since then, and by the way, up to that point, they had never won the Copa either. He had never won a single trophy for his country. Since then, they've never lost. And he is one game away from becoming the first player ever, and some of his teammates as well, to win four consecutive major international trophies.

He is going to leave this tournament far and away the most decorated World Cup player ever. He has the most goals. He has the most assists. He has the most games. He already has the most golden balls, and he might add another one. He doesn't have a golden boot. He might add one there. and to go from the only yeah but on your resume

becoming the biggest thing on your resume is just at his age it's unfathomable and I just like I get goosebumps like thinking about it and talking about it because like it's so it's such a cool thing that the biggest messy fans I don't think thought going into this tournament there was any realistic chance

he was going to be the best player in the tournament and he just clearly has been And that's the thing we talked about before the tournament was I had a take. And it was, I think in this tournament, Messi is going to be more of a playmaker. You're going to be relied on more of a playmaker. And then what does he do? He goes and scores the first hat trick in his World Cup history. This tweet from Opta Joe, I think it just encapsulates what Messi is.

What the game calls for, he will deliver. If it calls for him to be a great goal scorer, he will. But now in the knockout rounds, you are seeing him. adjust to teams making adjustments to him. You didn't say what it said. It was highest expected. Assess totals in the World Cup that they have been tracking since 1966, which I think is so perfect for him being a goal scorer when they need him. Okay. Group stage, a couple games are knocking around.

Oh, they need him to be a playmaker now. That's exactly what he's doing. Coming up right after the break is Yomal under duress. The Spain need a little motivation as they take on Argentina. in two days, 23 hours, and three minutes. Nick is still looking for tickets. Oh, major update on that front. Really?

I got a text. Wow. Up date on that front. Live from New York. This show that is considering flying to Buenos Aires or Barcelona. We've determined it would, it's definitely cheaper to fly to either one of those places and watch the game. The question is, would it be more fun? I'm going to say definitely more fun.

Yeah. If they win, going to the game is fun no matter what. Going to Buenos Aires and watching Argentina lose a World Cup does not sound the top of fun. That's why I think you go to Barcelona. Sounds a little dangerous. Well, Barcelona is fun no matter what. Barcelona, you win. There's a lot of messy fans.

Barcelona is like, we're winning either way. Yeah, that is true. Who are they rooting for? Messi or limineum all? You just wear two jerseys. Well, that's the other thing. Barcelona is not necessarily always super, pro Spain. Like Barcelona is kind of its own.

They like Spain. Not always. Not always. Second hour, first things first. Today, Argentina stuns England. That's true. Was that an epic collapse or an epic comeback?

It's golf related. What do you see that? No. An Argentine golfer did it in some international tournament to the English. Wow. Meanwhile, Rob Stone joins us in studio to preview the final coming up at 3.

on Fox. But right now. What? No disrespect acts. But you never have someone more handsome than you at the desk. And you're about to when Stone gets here. I mean, a handsome guy, but. You like the change.

He just liked what he saw on his own camera there. We're back at 3 o'clock. O.T. and Danny Parkins coming up back at 5. So we're all basically one big first thing's first family again. Yes. Which means Christina had time to go and get a real letter from the post office. Wow! Yes.

Great. Great. Great. Oh, you got your letter opener already, so it just slides out. That's beautiful, KW. Dear Wilds, love the show. Who wore it best? Cheers, Dawn and Dawn.

Great question, Dawn and Dawn. Slot on for the game the other day in Dallas. Then, of course, Cowboy Brew. and then Holland, three different style hats. I've got casting my vote with Brew. No, you're not. I got to give us. Slat time.

Yeah, yeah, he got me here. You read Holland shirt for us? Yes, I did. It says y'all can, I think it says y'all can kiss my Dallas. Yeah, so you got that. I would have maybe. Annunciated. It's just, Dallas.

Enunciated on the end. Yeah. That's a great shirt. I do. You got the best shirt. No, you've got a great shirt, Brew. It's form fitting. Dax, that is not my real body.

Not anymore. It used to be. Never, never won't. Brow, once a good Thanksgiving time. Brew's fitness. Drew's a footballer. Yes, that's right. All right.

All right, here we go. At number three, we are all footballers on here, Dax. Killing Mbapapé. Now look, I know you do. disappointed as you should be and it's going to be a downer playing that consolation game Saturday against England. However, here is some motivation. You can make history. All right? You can make history by becoming the only player ever to win more than one golden boot. Right now you're tied with Messi with eight goals. He does have the assist lead for assist to your three. You're

but you are playing an England team that's going to be just as dejected as you and your teammates are. They're not as good of a defense as Messi will be facing in the final, obviously, with Spain. So multiple goals for you should be on the board.

And I get it. It's small consolation compared to the World Cup title, which is what you really wanted. However, in history, you know how, it works guys. Nobody's going to look at his second golden boot and say, oh, but that he got that in the constellation. He's going to be like he's got two golden boots and it'll be that and you

do still already have one World Cup title. So I believe in you, Mbapapé, go out there and at least leave this tournament with something, the golden boot. All right, at number two, La Mien Yamal. Now this World Cup was marketed as the passing of the torch from Messi to you. Yeah, have you got, I wish we should have these pictures. The pictures of, we've seen.

Oh, it's coming up when he's a baby. Bathing. Yeah, these are great. I mean, it's beautiful with you as a baby. But it was supposed to be the passing of the torch, but Messi wants to keep the torch. All right. But you know what? You're a competitor. That's how you wanted. You would rather

take the torch than have it handed to you. So that is what is there for you. You obviously haven't been as sensational in this tournament as people expected you to be, but you have played well. And the bottom line is this. If you lead Spain to victory, then again, no one's going to look at, oh, he's only score one goal, two goals, whatever it ends up being. They are going to say you led Spain to the World Cup championship. That'll be the monkey off your back. All your career, you will have

a World Cup title. And you have beaten Imbape the last three times you played, if not more. You have never played Messi but to put Messi also beating him in a World Cup championship,

when he's been playing this well, to have that on your resume, quite a resume for a 19 year old. So So, you mean, you are why, Lemine, you are why I picked Spain to win it all. I believe in you. Go get it done.

All right, at number one, Leonel Messi. Wow. All right. So I don't know if you're going to retire after this. It doesn't seem that way. It doesn't seem like you're going to retire. You have said you want to play until you can't anymore. And you want to play as long as you can contribute.

Well, you're contributing. Eight goals tied for first in the whole tournament. Four assists tied for second. Almost the golden boot or ball may be wrapped up. It feels like that. That could be wrapped up. And you haven't won a golden boot yet, but you could put that on your list of achievements as well in this game.

But even though you won't retire probably, you have a chance to go out. This could be Michael Jordan hitting the big shot against Utah. This could be Tom Brady leading Tampa Bay, Tampa Bay to a Super Bowl, his seventh of all time. Even George Foreman at 45 years old becoming a heavyweight champion. You are doing all of this. You are pushing away father time at 39 years of age. So you're facing the toughest defense in the tournament, but obviously you have the goods to get it done.

Look, I'm picking Spain, but there's a part of me that's like, how can you not believe? Exactly. Exactly. So that's what you ripped me for. No, I'm picking Spain. You ripped me for that. I'm picking Spain.

That was my whole thing who's making fun of me for. I like it. I'm sticking with Spain, but that's the bloodless. Great buddless. And I appreciate Brew that you're. Even though you pick Spain, all that, you're putting an Argentinian number one. Yeah, knowing the powers of the buzzer. Yeah, unbiased.

I appreciate that. Go ahead, Dex. This is your third or fourth budd list. I think it's my first. It's your last bud list? Wow. Holy cow. You have shined on your buddh.

Dax has been great. I was talking Danny about this. Dax, you've been an awesome edition throughout the World Cup. Well, thank you. Don't blow it here. I'm trying not to. Can you talk in F. I was going to say.

I'm back. I'm back. I'm back. Florida Panthers talk. Janice, you're on my buddard. All right. We're sticking with the soccer theme. And I've wanted to do Lemini Amal for the last couple Bud lists, but as it is, Bruce List, I've had to defer.

I'm sticking with Spain and how the collective is the star with the Spanish national team. Rodry, defensive midfielders don't typically get a lot of, let's call it, shine when it comes to these discussions because we want to talk about defensive excellence, clean sheets, golden boot races, the flashy players. If Lamin Yamal represents the limitless ceiling of talent that he maybe hasn't hit in this tournament, then Roderie, you represent the stable, excellent floor that represents the entire Spanish national team. And it's not always easy. even if you're a big soccer fan, if you're a former player, or even if you're new to the sport to recognize what a guy like Rodry is so good at

and the glue with which he keeps the whole team together. Roderry, you tore your ACL around 18, 20 months ago, and you didn't look like yourself. Even when you came back for Manchester City, you didn't play a ton of games in the Premier League, and your coach, one of the greatest coaches of all time, Pep Guardiola said back in October of 2025, You haven't seen the best Rodry yet.

You haven't seen the Roderoy of old yet. But you know when you will see the best Roderie? And I'm paraphrasing here. In the World Cup. And we should have trusted Pep because Roderie has been fantastic. Game after game after game with his Piaz de resistance. Did I pronounce that appropriately? I shouldn't have said that because France blew it.

I love these graphics. But this is an absolute masterclass against his game against France. but these are his numbers from the entire World Cup, where he has now set the record for most passes completed in a single World Cup since 1966, since they started keeping this. 650. So if you love possession. I have different numbers on that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. If you look at mine, mine's a little bit different, but I do respect it. Just a couple long balls forward. Just what I've charted is a little bit different, but still that's valid. If you love possession, Roderie is the metronome with which Spain ticks. If you love defending, well, guess what? He is the anchor in front of that backline with which allows them to be so dominant

because how he reads the game, his performance against France was one of the best of the World Cup and he didn't get an assist, he didn't get a goal, but he was still the best player on the field. And, Roderie, a little motivation for you. You probably don't need it. But I want to throw up a graphic of the list that you are going to join if you win the World Cup.

The list of players who have won the World Cup, the UEFA Champions League and the Bologna to Orr. It's 10 players, 10 of the greatest players that have ever lived. Nine of those players are all attacking players. Goals, assists, flare, getting fans out of their seats. Franz Beckenbauer, one of the greatest centerbacks

defenders of all time, and not one single defensive midfielder on that list. You win the World Cup, you join that list, and you cement your legacy as one of the greatest defensive midfielers that has ever lived. No pressure. That's an amazing list, he could. Crush that but well done. What a swan song. Yeah. He heard the bud list. Yeah.

Just at home with his wife and kids like it's Thursday. Here's a budd list. All right, buckle up now. People used to mock this segment all the time. Call it a segment with the same what's going on. Then he changed world sports forever. Getting a red guard rescinded. So it's time now for the sports media embudsman. Indeed it is. So let me tell you how I spent yesterday. Sure. Watch. I don't know if you guys remember. I told you that I thought Argentina shouldn't have been an underdog. I couldn't believe you were getting plus money. And if they won, I finally, with a game to go, was out of the hole in the World Cup.

And Argentina won. So I took my daughters to a nice dinner, a little daddy daughter's date. Then I went home and found myself laying in bed and watching an hour and a half of English sports talk radio. Awesome. It was phenomenal. You feeling a little unhinged. And I've got to tell you, Sports Beyond Budzman is here to say,

America, we got to step our game on. We think, sports take game on? We think we're the hot take capital? No, we're not. What? So I came across some fellas on talk sport. The flame thrower you're about to see here

is a fella, a chap, I should say a lad named Rory Jennings. Okay. The more measured. guy is Jamie O'Hara. This is in the day leading up to the game where Rory is having the conversation of Messi. How good is he really? Play it. Tough take. Okay, you want to talk about Messi? Genuine question. Does Messi get in our team? What do you mean? Would you swap Bellingham for Messi? But he's not playing there. Okay, would you swap Kane for Messi? He's not planned there.

Okay, he's a right-winger. Okay. He might get in that position. You wouldn't swap, you wouldn't swap Bellingham for me? If I offered you the option now, messy in Bellingham. Okay, yeah, but you'd move them around. No, but if you, if you just give you that, a trade, you give them Bellingham, we get messy. Would you do it?

Nah. I got to tell you. That was great. I got goosebumps. We do that all the time. But we don't have the courage. I didn't hear any of us being like, would you trade Polistic for Dooku?

No, I would. I didn't see any of it. And then kind of it appears the kind of older, more seasoned journalist, Jamie, was trying to be measured. Yeah. Here's Jamie after the game. see how measured he is then.

You can almost accept it. You're playing against Argentina. You can't sit off for 25 minutes against Argentina. He absolutely bottled it. Thomas Tuchel's cost us the World Cup. He cost us the World Cup. We're 1-0 up. Played well first of.

All right, KG affair. We go 1-0 up. Be brave. Be brave, Thomas. This is what we brought you in for. We brought you in for this moment. It's a disgrace. It should be sacked.

Get him out. Gone. I love it. I got to tell you, I love it. They're fired him. You find like 100 more clips like that. They're fired him. And not only are they firing him, they are expecting him to resign in disgrace.

That's what we are. Guys, we have, welcome to soccer. This is what I'm saying. We have become a little too soft and gentle. We're afraid of being tarred all these hot take guys. I'm watching these guys in England. My eyes are bleeding. I can't believe it.

So we got up the anti-America. We invented the sports talk game. They're out doing us in our thing. Oh, goodness. That was great. I'll tell you what. Lamar S-Bob this year. Or you're out.

Or you're out. Straight of them. That's great. I love those guys. I love them. A lot of pressure now. Mine's measured. I'm putting LeBron on the bud list.

He's around the corner. I know. He's that fanat. Fest down the street at the Javitt Center. Shout out to LeBron. Earlier today, he was asked about his free agency plan from Tyrese Allerber in his podcast. And guess what he said? Basically nothing.

You know why? LeBron, very wise in this media game. How you do anything is how you do everything. LeBron is very thoughtful. And if you thought LeBron was going to announce what was happening in free agency during the World Cup, you're dead wrong. When the World Cup's not happening, we are usually doing a lot of football preview and a decent amount of basketball. Summer League, we've done one highlight with the best dunk I've seen in the last year. Kauai Leonard, there's rumors.

He could be suspended for the whole year. He might probably is not, but it's on the board. We did five minutes on it. And then Tyler Hero and Bamatta Ballioux fought each other. They're former teammates, and Tyler Hero got punched in the face. We did zero minutes on. This is the first time we're mentioning it. That is the amount of mind space basketball has right now.

So I'm making a prediction. You're not going to hear anything for, I have no knowledge, zero, zero knowledge of rich. And I got no idea what's going on, okay? But I am positive. You are not going to hear any news from LeBron until either Argentina or Spain wins. And the after party is over. And there is a lull in the conversation. And then LeBron said, oh, time for old LJ to strike.

It's like a bat. It's like a bat. And guess what? We're going to do two and a half hours on it on first things first and no team. That being said, Steve Kerr did put a little bit of little blood in the water. Take a listen. And we get LeBron, man. But we need LeBron.

LeBron. No, we got it. Okay. That's good. Put that on Twitter. Okay, I got you. We would have done an hour on that. Is he right?

What are you thinking? Could it work? Graham on this and that. We did a few minutes. So stay tuned to first things first. Post World Cup. The show is still going to be pretty good. And we'll start talking LeBron then.

LeBron. No. That's not. Oh, it didn't work for Brew. Is something wrong with the button? Amazing. Brew, you've got to give our producers. Oh my gosh.

It's not an actual book. I know it's inside TV, but it's more amazing that Brue thought everyone was just going to be ready. That's what you get. That's what it's not fucking. Oh, oh, here it is. No, it's out of battery.

It's out of battery. That's what it is. Don't Cleveland, don't worry. It's out of battery. Once I put my batteries in, the poor production team, you know what will be covered. Where's the Cleveland button? Bruce gone rove.

22 hours. 40 minutes. Dasty, give me some batteries. Spain, Argentina from New York. But first, here was James Coran last night on England. This is it. It's the moment I've been dreading. We have had so much fun with this England team

throughout this whole tournament. We are truly going to miss them. I, for one, I'm very proud of them. Here's a look back. Look at out of beautiful support. Speechless. Happy ball, mate. Sweet dreams.

You too. I'm absolutely buzzing for you. Go get them. Thanks, James. First time since FIFA debuted FIFA rankings, that the number one and number two teams, Argentina and Spain, will meet in the World Cup final. It's Sunday at 3 on Fox across the river in New York slash New Jersey.

Right now, we're going back in the game that got Argentina there. England went up 1-0, then decided to play it safe. Dax, it didn't work. Other than that comes back yet again. That was so sick. Just like they have all tournament. They've scored seven goals in the first 75 minutes. In the last 15, they've scored eight.

In extra time, they've scored four. Did you view this game as a comeback or collapsed? Well, I'm going to try my best not to sit on the fence here, fellas. I viewed it as a historic Argentina comeback with a little splash of England collapse. Okay. More Argentina than England, but England certainly helped the cause. When you have a team like Argentina who is riding high off of the backs of their 2022 cathartic World Cup victory, you're playing with House Money. I have felt like this with this Argentina team the entire knockout phase.

Every single game, I'm like, they're dead and buried. And they're like, we don't care. We've got the World Cup already. We have no pressure on us. We're going to go and just play like we want to play with zero pressure because we've already done it before. And look what happens. The pressure is going to get to the opponent. It's not going to get to us.

And if you look at that game, you see Argentina go down a goal. There's no panic. There's no stress. Their manager, Scaloni, on the sideline, is like the epitome of calm. You see after they score this game winner. He doesn't react. Literally, everyone's going bananas around him. And he's just like this.

He's just like this. Stoic and almost like emotionally, like expected that to happen. And he filters that into his coaching staff and the decisions that they make. And so, yes, when Argentina was down a goal and England started sagging back, I was thinking in my head, this isn't good. But maybe they can hang on. And then after they came out from the hydration break and the changes were starting to be made, defenders coming on the field for attacking players, the dam was going to break.

I was convinced we were sitting right here in this studio. You started to tweet early. I was convinced. We were watching this big monitor right here. And I said, there's zero chance that England is going to be able to see this game out. And it's because of Argentina's quality. It's because of their belief. It's because they have a magician on their team.

But England helped them. I would have loved. And look, we can all look back and play Monday morning quarterback. Being a high level coach, you're always going to live and die by your decisions and the results of your decisions. I would have loved if Thomas Tuchel, if he went to five in the back, I don't have a problem with that. It worked against Mexico. When you were down to, man, it worked against Norway. That's fine.

You have to have some sort of attacking outlet. You have to. Argentina's weakest positions, where their goal came from, it's their fullbacks. You have to sub on a player like Madueke or Saka to just show Argentina. Hey, we've got a little bit of a threat. Harry Kane was spent. Jude Bellingham was spent. It's going to take, it's going to take, you know, big, big, you know what to sub out one of those guys,

but they were exhausted. Put on Ollie Watkins. Put on players who are going to give you legs to be able to run and chase and potentially add a threat going the other way. The possession stuff, that is culturally drilled into Spain. That is something that no other national team outside of maybe one or two could do to see out a game, which is why if Spain goes up in the World Cup final, I'm convinced they're not going to change how they play.

England, if you can't do that, that's fine. Defend your box, make sure that you provide a threat on the counter. They had none. It's Argentina. What are you going to say? They're amazing. Yeah, this is kind of, remember when the Chiefs and the Ravens played in the AFC Championship game a few years ago,

and the Ravens made some bad mistakes, but the Chiefs, because they've done it so much, you know, they win in those situations. at that moment in time. And so this was kind of like that for me. Like obviously England contributed a lot to it. But because in this tournament, Argentina has done this essentially every game. Whether they were down or it was tied, whatever, they looked dead in the water several times and have figured out how to pull it out.

So I, I mean, I felt good about England when they went up 1-0. So I thought they were really going to win this game. But I do have to admit, even if they had not made those defensive changes that they did, you got to think Argentina was going to find a way. Somehow Messi was going to find a way to win this game. So I look at it as more of a comeback than a collapse. It was 88% possession from Argentina between England taking a 1-0 lead to being down to 1. It's impossible to play like that.

In other sports, like in basketball, we've seen, like, huge leads just disappear. Recently. And we're always, like, call a timeout, get a time out. Is there a way without a true timeout without a hydration break? Yeah. That they could, but even, but what's the score at the hydration break? One nothing. There's goals at the 55th minute.

The hydration breaks are the 67th. That's where I. But that's, I don't think the dam hadn't, the dam might be. It was pushing, but it wasn't. Is there? a way for Tuchel to change gears, change strategies without a true timeout. Your substitutions. He still had them.

He subbed in three defenders. And then because in the 94th minute is when he put on Rashford and. Yeah. Yeah. I like that. No, but my point is he had those in his back pocket. So he could have at any point, you know what I mean, adjusted on the fly by using the substitutions, I am not going to act as if I were an England fan or supporter, I wouldn't have

been furious with what Tuchel did. I think I probably would be, and I understand why, particularly because England, listen, no country ever has won this tournament without the manager being from that country. So England went outside of the box by hiring a German guy to coach their national team because to avoid this exact thing. Again, I'm not an expert on this, but it seems like Darren Southgate was got conservative in tight and big spots.

And so they thought Tuchel... It's supposed to be like lack of scar too. Right. So Tuchel wouldn't do that and he did it. So I understand why people are furious with him, particularly fans of the team. But if one team has done this to everyone, it's probably less about what you did

and more about who they are. And it is, to me, a remarkable testament to the confidence that the World Cup and the Copa Americas have built within this team where they truly feel like, of course, we'll find a way. And I think that confidence was at a 99, you know, going into the game against Egypt. And I think that game against Egypt made this team feel invincible. Invincible. They were down 2-0 in the 78th minute and one in regulation.

Yeah. And so that and so what I just think a lot of people, KW, are going to see all this happen, be like, yeah, but Spain's better. And then be stunned when they do it to them too. That's basically around that, right? Spain is not going to do this. Two days, 22 minutes, 20, oh, two days, 22 hours. Yeah. It's right outside my apartment.

There you go. Yeah, it's time. Spurn. I'm going to go right now. My last segment, I'm going. Sunday at 3 o'clock, the final from New York. Rob Stone joins us in studio next. Welcome back to First Things First.

We are two days, 22 hours, 22 minutes, and 47 seconds away from the World Cup final. 3 p.m. Sunday in New York, joining us now, almost as big of an event as the final itself. It's first time in studio. The great. I'm allowed. I'm allowed in studio and hang out with you guys. Welcome to the show. You missed a real touching moment earlier in the show when Nick basically started crying,

talking about how important it was to see Messi play and he was like weeping. And I'm like, oh my gosh, he's getting off. I'm actually kind of with you. Thank you. So what has it been like to see Messi's performance throughout this World Cup? You were just asking me, like, what would have been the takeaways of this World Cup for you, the things you've seen? And first for me was that crowd behind our set in Seattle, that American contingent, and it made me a little dusty, right? It was like for a dude who's been in American soccer for a long time and to hear and see and feel that type of energy and that type of support, that hasn't always been there in the United States.

So that blew me away. And then the rest is just being in the same stadium, the same surroundings as messy and how he captivates. that audience and that crowd and what he's done. And, you know, we're all trained to watch games. We watch them differently. But when Messi's playing, you know, there's a couple times I find myself, I'm like, oh, my shoulders and my eyes just go there. And he's just walking and he's doing nothing.

But I'm really curious about his walking and his gestures and his eyes and where they're going. And it's just been so amazing and a real privilege to be in his world this summer. Thank you. Making fun of me. I make fun of me. This is one of America's preeminent soccer. Nick, we go way back. We go back to like the Houston Day.

Houston. I was going to say Kansas City, maybe even. Nope. So let me ask you this, Rob. I want to stay on messy. Because I think there's a very kind of silly, but I think actually accurate meme, which is a bell chart of IQ.

And it's the dumbest people and the smartest people actually believe the same thing. and the middling people are the ones who are wrong. And I think going into this World Cup, like the most casual people in the world are probably like, well, Messi's probably really, really great. And the people who might be the most dialed into everything

were like, Messi's probably really, really great. And then the people, I'm in the middle tier of that graph. But when it comes soccer, it's like, ah, he's 39, he plays an MLS. He's still obviously good. But he's not going to, it's no chance he's the best player in the tournament. Right. How surprised, like, I'm stunned that he has dominated this tournament at age 39. I didn't think that was possible.

And now the last three weeks, I've been betting on it happening. Like, I bought in. But are you stunned that he's able to do this at this age to this level? I don't know if I'm stunned, but the age thing is a big factor, particularly in a sport where you, you know, the field is big. And you're hustling and you're moving. And he's playing games that are going beyond 90 minutes here in the knockout stage, right? So he's putting in real quality time.

Yes, I know he's walking around and he's conserving and he's intelligent. But at the age of 39, which he turned during the course of this tournament, to be doing what he's doing at such an elite level, it shouldn't surprise me, but it still surprises me. You know, to do that against with all these young pups running around that want a piece of him and take him out and try to shut him down, you know, there were times yesterday where he's getting through triple teams. He's getting through English triple teams.

You know, guys who played an absolute elite level. level. And this little 39-year-old who barely speaks English from Argentina is finding his way around and creating opportunities. Absolutely remarkable. We're living in a golden time. Well, you mentioned the young pups. Obviously, one of them is Yemal. And that's who they're facing in Sunday in the championship. So how do you kind of see this championship game? It's not passing of the torch. I think a lot of people would like that. I think the next in line for the torch is killing Mbapé. And I'm still surprised that France isn't playing Sunday. I thought, they were the team to beat. Laminemal has kind of grown into this tournament. He was fighting an injury.

You know, it took him a while to get to 90 minutes. He hasn't had that tournament that I think a lot of people were hoping he had just one goal. In fact, you know, the captain of Spain, Rodry said before the semifinal, like, you know, he needs to understand he doesn't have to be the man all the time. I think he feels this pressure. And that comes with the World Cup that, hey, I need to make these crazy moments. I need to do the things that he had probably. been seeing, you know, Holland do and Mbapé do and Messi do. And he felt like, well,

if I'm in that conversation with these guys, I need to be creating those type of moments as well. And he hasn't. But watch out, right? Like the final 90, it's not how you start. It's how you end. And Spain didn't start great. He didn't start great. But if he ends great on Sunday, people are going to be talking about him to a deeper level than they are right now. You talked about Team USA. USA, Belgium, did like 30 million plus. That's the good news. On Fox. The bad news.

Also, 30 million plus doctors looking at an autopsy of USA soccer. What is your take on where we go from here? I've gotten that question a ton, like, maybe not the same question. We're like, was this a win for the U.S. this summer? Did U.S. soccer go all right? And for the team off the field, 100%. You know, I think they captivated a nation. They drew in millions and millions of people who are going to stick around.

They were brought into the tent. They liked the carnival. They like the circus. They're going to stick around and try a few more rides and buy some more concessions. On the field, I always felt like this is where they're going to go. Like round of 16 always felt kind of like their landing ground. And that's why there was this hope because of the home field advantage. And everything had gone in their favor to get them to this point that maybe they could get back to that quarterfinal stage.

And then to have it end the way it ended, it wasn't even like a fight. It was sort of like, ah, you know, this is us. This is us. And as a true American soccer fan who's been around for a long time, it bummed me out because I knew there are a lot of people that are new to the game are going to go, eh, that's them. They're not great. This is where they are. They haven't changed.

They haven't improved. So for me, that's been unsettling. But also, I think, eye-opening. We're not as deep and as talented as we should be and need to be. We've got a long way to go. But we're still a top 20 team. We're still maybe a top 15 team, but to get to that next tier, to get to that eight, to get to that top five, top four, we got a lot of working. Well, so that's, and that's the tricky thing about this tournament.

No underdogs ever won it, like real underdogs. Only eight nations have ever won it. And those eight nations kind of take turns winning it. You know what I mean? Spain's only one at once. They're one of the only one-time winners. And, you know, they're kind of a new, they're almost the only. only new team to crack.

You know what I mean? 2010. Yeah, that group. Croatia's flirted with, Morocco's flirted with it. But it's just so hard. It's not like college football where it's like, oh, West Virginia's out Oregon's in, like over the last 50, you know, it's the same teams. There has been a lot of discussion about how we become one of those teams.

I then hear the, you know, Tieri talk about Spain. And it's like, so here's the thing about Spain. The whole country's agreed on a way to play soccer, including. the youth coaches and at nine years old everyone's learning the same thing the girls the boys everything like yeah well we're never going to do that like where you know what I mean we're never going to have that type of like

organizational continuity across the country of what we're going to do it's probably unlikely that we ever get to a point where our best just raw athlete Holland types are disproportionately picking soccer so if they're because I agree with you this has been a huge win

for the sport in America even if it wasn't as big of a win as we wanted for the U.S. men's national team. But is there a clean path to crashing that party, or is it just trying to be Croatia, like being a top 15-ish team that has a couple magical runs? Yeah. I think in the end, it's a DNA type thing. Like, you come out of the womb in Argentina, you're born into soccer, right? In Spain, in Brazil, in Uruguay. You come out of the womb here in the United States. All right, we're talking football, right? We're talking some basketball, some baseball.

And that's always been there. But you know, you can show up in those countries that have won a World Cup, and you're going to find soccer being played everywhere. Not on a pristine field. You're going to find it in an alley. You're going to find it on an asphalt surface. You're going to find it on attractive dirt. You're not totally finding that here in the U.S.

And until we get to that, where it is in your DNA, where your aunt, your cousin, your mom, your dad, your grandparents are saying, we're going to watch the game. Hey, here we go. We're going to wear this shirt. Like, you know when Argentina is in town, because you see the blue and the white. white shirts. They're not changing shirts every four years to, you know, take care of Nike and Adidas. This is our look and you know it and it's iconic. That has to happen and I don't know if that can happen in our country. One thing that would push it is if we could create, find, locate

an American messy. An American messy and we've had it on the women's side. You know what Mia Hamm did on the women's side, she took over soccer. You know, Carly Lloyd, kind of the same case as well. If we can find that American male messy, then I think we've got a real fighting chains. What about importing them? We've been looking, we've been trying. We've been trying. We've been trying to do that. Levee's your wall. I hear these gold card citizenship things are available for purchase. Like, why don't we just give you one, buddy? Like, what? There's got to be a number. Rob, we've got just a few seconds left. Are you willing to make a final finals prediction?

So, like, do you go against a goat? Thank you. Right? Like when Brady is playing, how many times you're like, it's not Brady's day? When Jordan is playing, right? You and your NBA. When Jordan is on the court and playing, are you going to be like, that kind of like the magic today? You're not.

Nessi is playing. The goat is playing. It is so hard to go against Argentina. Do you think what they're doing is? Razor's edge. It's an absolute razor's edge. You know, 11 goals, 75th minute, or beyond. this tournament. They scored in the 111th minute, the 92nd, the 112th, 90s second in the knockout stage,

but they're getting it done and they only need to do it one more time. Rob, fantastic job. Welcome, welcome to the first thing's first family. Yeah, we're, we're sorry we had to lose Dax. Come on. It's a great run. It was a tie on. It was a good run, Dax.

It's a good run. We're still counting down to Spain, Argentina. It's going to be Sunday at three on five. two days, 22 hours. Rob, thank you very much. Anytime. Oh, we're back on first things first overtime. But instead of having a

6 million, 40 million people watching, it's just us talking weird and wonder. It's a great leader. Today, expectations for Messi in his third World Cup final. Meanwhile, a special Spain versus Argentina edition of frenemies.

if Danny wins it yet again he breaks out his The last time we did frenemies Danny it was terrible mortifying defeat Do you win for enemies? Yes, it was when Danny was adamant that the Knicks were a fluke and now guess what

he's about to explain to us how Argentina is a clue I buy that I mean It just re-racked you like that All right I got the whole final four end title game and finally

Macro. Best World Cup ever. I didn't watch them all. Neither did I. But it's got. Not even in preparing for the segment? The segment. Well, I didn't watch in 19. I started watching 1930. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. A lot of it wasn't. When I say I didn't watch them, some of them I listened to. Well, yeah, I certainly consumed all them. Radio was king. But I was listening to 1930. 1930 was our hate. Oh, my God. It's Fontaine. You should have built on that. We didn't. We dropped the ball.

He really didn't. We dropped the ball. In the third place, people say that third place game no one talks about it. We were talking about 100 years later. You know who beat us in 1930? Italy. No, Argentina. I know. It's just checking.

I'm sorry, Kevin Wiles, Nick Wright and the great Danny Parkins. Danny, welcome back to the show. I'll see you, buddy. Good to see you guys. Or we're welcome. Yeah, we're welcoming ourselves back to the show. I've been here. He's been here every day.

He had two and a half million people watch one day. The entire first year or first things first we didn't have two and F. Like for a few years. This guy. Hey, him loves to remind me. What do you want me to do?

That's not true. That's not true. That's subtly a shot of Brew too. Brew was a part of that team. I was on the team. Yeah, Brew was on the team. NBA analyst. Yeah, he wasn't a star player like this now, but he was on the team.

He used him right. He runs it on the maps. Pop in here off the bench. That's right. That's exactly what it was. I can actually be finals MVP. Give me a shot. Nick was losing.

He's taking all the shots. That's not trying. Feed me. A ball dominant show. All right. All right. We're gearing up for Spain, Argentina, Sunday at 3 on Fox. 19-year-old Yamal, who wears number 10 for Barcelona versus 39-year-old Messi,

who wore number 10 for Barcelona, also bathed him at one point. Here's the tale of the tape between Spain and Argentina. 13 goals to 19 goals on offense, but the goal is against. Spain's got one. Argentina has given up seven. Spain has also never trailed. Argentina, oddly, prefers to trail. Danny, who have you been more impressed with throughout the World Cup?

As a team, Spain. Like, it's not an individual sport. Like, messy individually. Is he on the Argentina team? Yeah. So do they get credit for the stuff he does? Yes. Okay, just making sure.

All right. I just want to make sure. Of course. Yeah, go ahead. But it is a seemingly a one-man team. He has scored or assisted on 12 of their 19 goals. And Spain is probably the deepest team in the tournament. And I also think it's just a little hard and certainly harder for us in our analysis to like parachute in and fully appreciate and understand dominant defense in soccer.

So much of the talk was France. It's the best collection. of offensive talent we've maybe ever seen. This is the best golden boot race we've ever seen. It's the World's Cup with the most goals ever. Like we talk about offense. And then Spain plays France and dismantles them, gets a clean sheet, shuts them out.

And so I wanted to try to put Spain's defense into context because it is a team game. If we just look at their knockout stage, this is what they average in the rest of the World's Cup. And then when they play Spain, It's a lot of zeros and ones, and it's not like they're not playing good offensive teams. All of those teams are in the top 20 and goals scored in this tournament. France, obviously, right there with Argentina in terms of considered the best.

Belgium had scored three or more goals in three straight matches. And then this is just counting, but where does one stack up? One goal allowed would be the best defensive performance in the history of World Cup soccer, and they're about to play an extra game. We've had three different champs allowed two over a whole tournament. They've allowed one, and they've already played that number of games because the tournament's expanded. So it's a team sport, and I do think Spain's defense has been the singularly most impressive accomplishment of a team in this tournament. I don't think there's a question, any question that Spain has been more impressive.

Argentina's been more dramatic. They've been more spectacular. More entertaining. More entertaining. Comebacks. Yeah, entertaining. all of that. And obviously,

Messe's been the best individual of the two teams. But, I mean, you just showed it defensively allowing one goal against better competition. They've beaten two top five teams, France and Portugal,

and another top 10 team in Belgium. Their last three wins have been over top 10 teams and they've given up one goal. Argentina's beaten one top 10 team, England, which I, you know, give them credit,

however you won. They won. But no other top teams have they played. So I'm not saying, look, I pick Spain. I believe in Spain. It's going to be a tough game. I'm not down in Argentina. But I think when you look at what both teams have done in this tournament,

yeah, Argentina, more entertaining and dramatic. But Spain definitely has been more impressive. Yeah, I disagree. Again, the competition level is a tough one because you can't. have an impact on that. You can't determine, you know, you can't pick who you play. They have played the same team once and they had the exact same result through 90 minutes. Spain was zero zero against Cape Verde through 90. Argentina was 1-1 versus Cape Verde through 90, which speaks to the difference in quality of the teams, which is Spain's strength is its defense.

Argentina's strength is its offense. On the first graphic you showed, Danny, I saw 13 goals versus one. All right, so allowed. That's a plus 12 goal differential. And then 19 goals versus 7. That's also a plus 12 goal differential. You said Messi has been a one-man team. You said he has scored or assisted on 12 of 19. So they have seven goals that he had no part of. Spain has 13 goals as a team in the tournament.

Messi has been the straw that stirs the drink, but they are not, it is not Holland for Norway level of a one-man team. And I don't know why. why it's not impressive to every single game rip the heart out of your opponent. I don't know why it's not impressive for them, you showed us, they're not,

Spain drew in this tournament. Argentina hasn't, Argentina said 7-0 and 0. Spain says 6, 1 and 0. And so I do agree Spain has had the harder path. I don't agree that Argentina had they had that path. If we had flip-flot paths, I think we still would have this final. I think you guys may be disagree with you on that. You think? And so

I, unless if you think Spain that Argentina can be shut out, then I would be more bullish on what Spain's defense has done. I definitely think they could be shut up. France, they shut out. France, why can't they shut out

Argentina? I mean, I, because A, Argentina's offense, even before France got knocked out, was a tick better than France's offense in this tournament. By one, yeah, I mean,

just a tick better. And like, at this is, and this is the point I was making earlier in the show, it does have a feel of the Knicks

playoff run in this regard. Didn't see it coming. Didn't predict it. But if it happens every single time, why is that not just who they are now? But the Knicks were,

I think it's a fair comparison in some respects, but the Knicks were just blasted. No, right. The comp is the Knicks blasting teams is, you know, apropos to Argentina once the game hits the 75 minute mark being on like a 10-10 goal a game average. The Knicks were clutch.

And so I just, I think that, and when you, your point on, it's not a one-man team. It's not a one-man argument. It's a team sport. But that one man has had such a disproportionate impact on these games that, what he is doing along with the seven goals they have scored that he had nothing to do with, did not score, did not assist, to me has made them the most impressive team of the tournament, even if they are not, I don't think they are the most talented team, to be clear. I don't think they are as talented as Spain or France.

I'm not sure they're as talented as England. I think that one was at least very, very close. But winning this way repeatedly, not having a lead once at the 90-minute mark of a 90-minute mark of a knockout round and never once going to penalty kicks is to me definitionally the most impressive thing you could do. Spain hasn't trailed. Like that's pretty good. Is it more impressive to never trail and win handily

versus you're getting beat down? I'm thinking of a boxing analogy. You're getting beat down for much of the fight and you always come back and win with a late knockout or something. So I guess I kind of disagree with the have won have won handily. The game against Portugal is 0-0 after the 90th minute.

They scored, you know, Spain. And not as if Spain has not felt any peril. Handily, but they've never trailed. No, they've never trailed, but they also, I haven't looked at Spain as it. I thought they dominated France. I didn't think they dominated Belgium. Like, that game was, what, 1-1 in the 88th minute?

The Portugal game was 0-0 in the 90th minute. I thought it was going to go to. extra time. So maybe I would, if Spain had been doing this tournament, honestly, what France had been doing until they lost, that to me would have trumped the clutchness of Argentina. Like France was just thoroughly dominating everyone they played Paraguay, who was playing a different type of game. Then they flatly lost. Spain is, you know, slowly kind of, you know, anaconding. Yeah, but there you go. Thank you. I got you. I think that we're up for what makes this game so interesting, Danny is.

And we've kicked this around because we do a lot of predictions. Whatever happens on Monday, on Sunday. I'm sorry, our show on Monday. Our analysis on Monday, one of us will be wrong in their prediction, and it will be, I should have seen this coming. It will be, of course, Spain has won the game. They never trailed. They allowed one goal.

They just saw them do it to France. And if Argentina wins, like, of course we, why did we bet against Tiger Woods in a red sweater at the mat? Like, of course that was going to happen. I lean a little bit more towards Danny's never trailed. We have the best defense defense wins championships versus let's pull it out of the fire one more time. When you can look at strategic errors that the other team has made. I just don't know why we added to that. why we think all of a sudden Spain,

in the biggest tournament, any of these guys have ever played, the biggest game the managers ever been involved in, they're going to be the ones impervious to those same mistakes. I think, they're better than those other teams.

They won the Euro's. It's a pretty big tournament. Yeah, right, but we agree that Sunday's the biggest game they've played, right? Sure. I didn't say they haven't played big game. Sunday's the biggest game played. Bernaldo thinks the Euros are a good.

Right. Meanwhile, I mean, they're both on insane games. winning streets. For Argentina, they haven't lost playing for their country in a major tournament this decade. I don't know. I guess, I mean, we'll see. I agree with you, KW. It's going to be a great game. I just think Argentina is going to do what they've done the whole time. Yeah. And you think Spain's going to do it. Spain's going to do it. It makes it kind of awesome. All right, Harry Kane, unfortunately for him, had a front row seat to Messi's magic. Here he was on Messi

yesterday. I felt like for for large parts of the game, we dealt with him. really well. But as always with the most dangerous players in the world, when they had the ball in the final third, they can create something. And he done that again today. He's obviously one of the best players ever for a reason. And like I said, it was disappointing to kind of give up the space that we did. And in those final 20 minutes, it allowed not just him, but the other players, other ball players to grow into the game and feel more confident and get balls into dangerous areas. and in the end it was too much for us to stop. What are your expectations for Messi specifically, Parkins?

Well, he's scored or assisted in every single game of this World Cup until now. I think Spain's going to clean sheet them. I think they are the best team. I think they're the deepest team. I think they are the best defense. And they have done this amazing magic trick against Egypt. And then they against Switzerland. I thought they were getting outplayed and they scored two goals once the double yellow card

happened and they ended up playing up a man. And so I realize I am picking against the goat to do something. It's always dangerous. It's terrible. It's dangerous. But Spain, I do think, is uniquely equipped because of Roder, the best defensive midfielder in the world, because of the depth, because of Simone, their goal tender, and because they also, they will not do what England's just did. They are not going to, they're going to try to keep scoring. And their whole thing is possession. They want to pass the ball around like they did against France. They were just playing keep away against France. Like France was trying to get back into that game and they couldn't even get the ball because of how great Spain is at passing the ball. I think that this game might

feel it's going to be exciting. It's going to be tense. I think it could be a little bit of a game of keep away and like feeling each other out. I'm not expecting this to be a high scoring game with a ton of chances in either direction. That's what it was with France. You know, keep away. Right. They got the lead. They suffocated them and then they kept it away from them. So I think it's going to be a really tough spot for Messi and Spain will do everything in its power to not let him beat them. Have you ever had this take at any other time in your sports life? That a goat is not going to come through? That one thing to say I don't think his team's going to win.

But one of, I'll just open up the aperture to one of the greatest players ever. In this case, it's the absolute greatest player ever. I expect him to be totally taken out of this game. I've never, I've never. Again, we've certainly had the, you know, I think that his team is outmatched and no matter what he does, they're going, you know, they're not going to be able to do it enough.

Yeah, I think he's just saying he's not going to score, which in soccer is not basketball. Happens all the time. Not in this World's Cup. Yeah. But it does happen all the time. No, but it's gone entire World's Cups without scoring. But his team's not going to.

to score. His team's his team that has scored two, not one goal, two goals or three goals in every game of the tournament. And just did it to France. And it, right, and France doesn't have him. And France didn't have this belief. And France didn't have the fact that they had you, so you don't think they had the belief. Not I think there's all these teams have belief. I don't think the, I don't think any, I think, yes, I agree. All the teams have belief. The maybe I miss. This level. I think that I don't think that anybody has, I truly believe that Argentina has a feeling of, this is our destiny. And I think even if that's total makebelieve, they feel it.

And I think that impacts negatively their opponents consistent. You know who also had that? Who? The San Antonio Spurs. I mean, they really, they celebrated just getting to the finals. during that series they were saying we'll be fine we're down three months or what we're going to win like you know what I'm saying like I hear you because I think in some cases that can be real but I don't think that's going to be a fact but I think both of these teams are supremely confident I'm just oh I think they're both confident I'm just very I'm surprised at your confidence that Spain oh Spain would never make the mistake England did England didn't think they were going to make the mistake England did the whole reason they brought it's a lot of And Thomas Tupol... I know, but there's a lot of scar tissue there from England

of them being up and ended up bottling. Yeah, I think England expects disaster. They've got a little... No, I think their fans did, but I'm saying, going into that game, I don't think any of the analysis was England's going to get an early lead and then get super conservative. I think that it was that England would try to keep scoring. And so I think if Spain's going to win,

they are going to win three to two. I do not think you are going to hold Argentina not only scoreless. I don't think you're holding Argentina under one goal. Can I make a, this is from my arguing with Nick Wright bag of tricks. Love it. Usually flawless.

Usually just like personal insult. No, no, no. No, no. Before France, Spain, we did. a lot on we are watching the World Cup go. He has, he's one goal behind Messi and in half as many World Cups. Mboppe is the guy. He's going to win the Golden Boot.

If he wins, you know. Scores every game. Yeah, every, and he was doing the same thing, assisting or scoring. But he lost in Messi, you know, an all-time goat. It doesn't feel like you were impressed with your own, you know, analysis prior to the Spain game. That Mbappe was the goat. And Spain shut them out. Hold on. I, the, to be, I don't know if that was my exact analysis.

Going into that game, I think I said I thought it was 52.48 France. And, 51, 49. But yeah, that, and that because I had picked France for the turn. I'm saying a World Cup goat being shut out. Correct. And so I also was not quite as high on France as the world was going into it. And I don't think, Embape does not have the ability. to impact the game without scoring the way Leo Messi does.

He also has the most assist in the history of the world. But he has better, certainly on the front line, better supporting cast. I just, I think it is, and this is part of the reason of my moderate frustration, really, it's just because I watched way too much English talk radio last night. I don't even know what that. That is time of expense. But in the focus on English.

blowing it, rather than the fact that England's manager made a decision that forced Leo Messi out of the place on the field he wants to be. And Messi instantly said, okay, from the place I don't want to be, I will just create chance after chance after chance. I just don't think

there is a team in the world that is capable of, shutting these guys out. I think that they, especially if they get desperate. When, I mean, not again, maybe they would have came back anyway, but when he really started taking over was when England made that adjustment.

Spain, I don't think, is going to do that. Yeah, I just... And they're going to control possession. They're going to have much more than 12% possession. Much more. Peru has got Spain. Danny has got Spain. Nick has Argentina. I, rooting for a great thing.

He wants both teams to have fun. I love sports. Participation trophy. Two days, 21 hours until a great, epic World Cup final Sunday at 3 from New York. Stay tuned for a fresh episode of Frenemies. Laminia Mall, Spain taking on Argentina, the World Cup's biggest stage, Sunday,

three Eastern on Fox from New York, New Jersey Stadium. We cannot wait. I've been waiting for this for about six weeks. Welcome back to the OT. I'm Danny Parkins, back with Nick Wright. fresh edition of Frenemies. We start with Argentina's comeback win over England yesterday to punch their ticket to the finals.

England got the second half started with the first goal of the game. But like they say, it's not how you start, Nick, it's how you finish. Two goals from Argentina at the 85th minute and after, both, of course, assisted by the goat. All right, I know you watched and consumed a lot of English talk radio. I did not in preparation for this, so you are more prepped for that than me,

was yesterday's result. more of an Argentinian comeback or England collapse? There's an Argentinian comeback. And I'm stunned at how many people are convinced that if only England hadn't gone, if only they had had fewer defenders on the field, that would have stopped Argentina from doing the inevitable. I understand the frustration with Thomas Tuchel

and him treating a 1-0-0 lead as if it were a 2-0 lead. I understand the frustration of him going to that with around probably plus stoppage time, 40 minutes left in the game rather than 14 minutes left in the game. Pretty big difference. I get all of that. But if one team does this to everyone, at some point we have to say they have a little magic to them. And I know that sounds like hollow analysis. But what if it's just the only explanation?

for what we're saying. What if... When you add Cape Verde to Egypt, to Switzerland, to England, and you add it all up, it's like, okay, it's just messy magic.

Yeah. I hate arguing against magic. Well, it's... I don't... I don't know how people want to logically explain a team that is yet to lead at the 90th minute

of any knockout round game and is yet to lose or even face a penalty kick shootout. I don't know what else howls to explain. explain a team that had in Messi's whole career had never won an international trophy and now was one game away from becoming the first team ever to win four consecutive and the first team to win back-to-back World Cups in more than 60 years. It can sound cliche. It's not so much

that they know how to win. They have no idea how to lose. Yeah. I think that all of that about Argentina in totality is at least partially responsible. Like belief is a very powerful thing in life, in sports manifestation. I do believe in it, even if I'll mock the magic part of it a little bit. But in that game, basically every soccer expert from Dax McCarty with me to the OT to Zlatan and Tiari all said that that strategic move by Tuchel was insane, how early they made the subs. Bruce cited it earlier from the 55th minute to the 92nd minute,

the possession is 88 to 12 in England's favor. That it, just when you see it on the screen, it's so overwhelming because that's not what it was for the whole game. The beginning portion of the game, it was very even. I think that game felt like a fair fight. If it was boxing, it felt like it was going to go 12 rounds and it was going to go to the decision. So I do think when you have an inflection point

that changes how the entire game is played, the collapsed piece of it, is not to diminish what Argentina did. Just like, the true answer here is that it is both, right? Like, Messi made two great passes, Argentina converted on two great goals. That is always the nuance here. But if there is a moment in time that leads to the,

it's a 50-50 game as I try to find the, and then all of a sudden a decision happens, and possession goes like that. See, but you can say a decision happens. They didn't instantly make subs once they went up. That came a little bit after. I could point to it say, yeah, it was a 50-50 game. And then the moment Argentina started trailing, they activated something.

And I understand England was a unwilling participant in it. But Argentina could have scored six times in that final half hour. They had a breakaway goal that there was an unbelievable play by Jed Spence or a shot at a breakaway goal. The tackle, and Jedspin saved it on the slide tackle. They hit both posts. Pickford made one amazing save, and they did score twice. When you give it the added context of, this team went to extra time against Switzerland,

one by two. They scored every time against Cape Verde, they went up one, nothing. They're kind of sleepwalking. Cape Verde ties it. They score. See, once they score, Cape Verde then ties it again on the insane goal. It's like, okay, fine, we'll score again. They are losing 2-0 to Egypt with 15 minutes left.

They win in regulation. That is about the team that's doing it. And I am very convinced, and we're about to talk about it, they're about to do the same thing to Spain. And people are going to be shocked that they did what they've done this entire tournament. All right, well, then let's just get there to the final. All right. The name for enemies has really never been more fitting. My pick, Spain facing Nick's third pick.

Second pick. I went straight to them after Brazil. Felt like there might have been a team in the middle there. South American Western Hemisphere loyalist. Everyone knows this. I think Morocco existed at some point. Oh, I know. I was rooting for murder.

Just because I put on the Morocco bucket at it. I think they've been a lot of things. Sounder you're embarrassing. Plenty of reasons why Spain could bring home this trophy. I'll lay out for you here. Let's get into it. Nick, also, you know, I'm just often right. So we can start there.

You're often wrong. I'm right. Wilde says defense wins championships. That's fine. I think the idea of what they did to France, and you can say that France isn't Argentina and they don't have messy, and that is true. But that game, if you had just watched, if you're a casual fan, we see these numbers go up from group stage to the beginning of the knockout round to the seventh.

If your first ever World Cup match was Spain, France, and you watched it, No one would have watched that game and said, France has the greatest collection of offensive talent we've maybe ever seen. Because Spain completely dismantled them. And then when you add in the ability to do that to the totality of Spain, this 37 match unbeaten streak, this is their hallmark. And I think it's harder for us to grapple with. But just 20 clean sheets in 37 matches.

11 straight matches allowing 1 or 0. Like if you say Argentina does this every single time, isn't it crazy to pick against it? Well, Spain does it every single time. So it would be crazy to pick. The irresistful force against the immoval object. And if this 37 matches is too long, just since World Cup qualifying,

so this collection of, it gets even more, 41 to 5. It's not the most goals scored. They don't have anyone who's going to win the golden boot, even though O'Yarza Ball would be in contention in many World Cups. It just feels like we have under-analyzed and under-appreciated Spain, whereas if they do get a clean sheet and shut out Messi, just like they did to France and Mbapé,

all of a sudden everyone is going to rush to the corner of, oh, of course, it's the best defense we've ever seen. Yeah, listen, I think they obviously can win. I think it's, I am not acting like it's impossible. for Spain to win. And Spain, I think, is more talented than Argentina. But I also think

you are presenting, Spain is being presented as if they have dominated their opponents. I don't believe that to be true. Never trailing, but not dominating is a thin thing to slice, though. I believe Argentina is a far better team than

Portugal. Spain, Portugal, and Spain is zero through 90 minutes to Portugal. So as great as their defense is, they struggled to find a goal. I think Argentina is leaps and bounds better than Belgium.

And against Belgium, that's one-one, I think in the 88th minute, when Spain got ultimately the winning goal. I think that every positive trend you have on Spain's defense, we have for Argentina's offense.

It is, the best offense against the best defense. So I just think the tiebreaker going to the team with the greatest player of all time that is going to have, once again, I believe, a massive home field advantage as they have had in every game they've played. The extra little soft factor of Argentina has been playing outdoors, Atlanta notwithstanding, and used to it. Spain, meanwhile, six of their seven games have been in climate control and said they're

going to be in New York City on some. Sunday afternoon, it's going to be sweltering. There's damn, there's a wildfire in Canada. It's smoky in the city. I just, I don't, I do not think you can shut out Argentina. Would you say that France is the second, like you were talking about the Portugal game and comparing the teams that they've played in the path? Would you say that France is the second best offense to Argentina?

Yes. I also think France, and this was my critique of them from the beginning of the tournament, that France reminded me of a lot of teams I've seen in my life across sports that is built in a such a way that if they play a bad team, an average team, a good team, or a really good team, they look unstoppable. But if they play one of the handful of teams, one of the three or four percent of teams that's equal to them in talent, they are imminently beatable. because I think it sounds more pejorative than I mean it. France is like a great frontrunner. And if the game is played on their terms,

especially if they get an early goal and you have to open up against them, they can really embarrass you. But I thought France was overvalued in the betting markets the whole tournament. It's why I thought Morocco could take them to extra time, as I predicted and I was wrong about. It's why I thought Spain could beat them. They ended up beating them. So I don't, I don't look at France as, while I do think they had the best attackers in the tournament and the second best offense to Argentina, as at all similar.

I think Argentina's really in these games just like, can we please get to winning time? Like, can we please just, can we? They're just playing with their food and then they wake up and, I mean, it's a rough. It hasn't been rough at all. It hasn't been rough at all. They haven't faced a penalty kick shootout. It's hard to count on, man. It's hard to count.

Why? Why? Okay, you're going to just get, you're going to lose to Spain and then be like, okay, we decide we want to win the World Cup now. It's just a dangerous recipe. I, it just reminds me of a lot of, and this is what I said to start of first and I have a soft factor for you. It reminds me a lot of the skepticism about the Knicks in the playoffs.

Well, there's no way they can keep. doing what they've done literally every time. If a team has scored 12 goals after the 75th minute, then maybe that's just who they are. Can I introduce a soft factor to you? I would love that. For Spain side. It's called frenemies, so we sometimes betray some friendship things and bring it to the air. I noticed upstairs you'd purchased an Argentina hat.

Yes, I have an Argentino bucket hat. Because you're thinking about going to the game. Correct. Well, the hats are 0 for two. You know what? Small sample size. The whole World Cup is small sample size. I'm wearing the bucket hat.

I'm not. I think the ponytail and the glasses was not my best look. I think that one on the right, that fellow's handsome. I got to. Listen, I think you look great in both. The point is the hat is winless. And I know you're going to go. And I know you're going to wear the hat.

And I know that you're going to be the reason that the message doesn't go back to back. I'm also, I'm going to tell you this much. I'm also going to go to the game for free. By gambling on... Every sporting event's free in America, as long as you bet on the right side. Argentina plus 125? Oh, I get the better team. I get the goat and I get plus money.

I was about to concede all the arguments. You got free tickets. Let me go. I'll refer Argentina. All right. Can't wait. We're back. Two days and 21 hours and some change until Spain, Argentina.

New York, New Jersey, bucket hats coming up on Fox. The World Cup final stage is set. The countdown is on. 39-year-old Leonel Messi and 19-year-old Laminia Mall. Dual it out on Sunday, 3 Eastern New York, New Jersey Stadium, of course, on Fox. Thanks for hanging out with us on the OT. Let's go to Dallas. Wide receiver George Pickens will play the 2026 season on the franchise tag.

After some drama regarding Jerry Jones' handling, of his contract and Cowboys fans now, a little bit of exhale. Pickens ranks third in the league in yards and yards per catch. Our favorite wide receiver, Greg Jennings, joins me now to discuss. I guess this is just going to be drama-free, Greg. What are your expectations for Pickens and the Cowboys? Exactly that. Drama-free, we thought and all assumed there would be a little bit of drama,

even this off-season leading into the franchise tag after he got tagged. None of these things were true. He has been the consummate pro, and I expect him to do nothing other than what we saw on full display last season. Him putting up big numbers alongside CD Lamb, obviously with that Prescott throwing him the football. He's going to put up numbers. The obvious concern anytime you sign the tag, Danny,

we all know this, is the injury factor. If he's healthy, he's going to produce. and he's going to get a long-term deal, hopefully from the Cowboys. I'll assume with his relationships that he's developed, he would want to steal and remain there. However, there will be 31 other teams that are interested in George Pickens.

And I say 31 other teams, because they are not all 31 teams will be as interested, but he will have his pick up the litter if he produces, which I believe he will. We have to remember when he was in Pittsburgh, like who his quarterbacks were. And I have a full screen just this show because he's entering into the prime of his career.

But in Pittsburgh, if we are reminded, he had Kenny Pickett throwing him the ball as a rookie in his second year. And then he went from Justin Fields to obviously Russell Wilson. We all understood and understand the struggles that they had offensively. But his ability to make plays,

and we were all screaming. They got to try to find ways to get George Pickings the ball. He goes down to Dallas, puts the star on his helmet, and all of the concerns, the character, how is he going to be number two,

all the things, how is he going to perform when C.D. Lamb isn't available. All of the questions that we had surrounding him at any point last season, he answered, and he answered glowingly. So I'm with you.

Listen, there's hours of radio tape in Chicago. of me arguing that the Bears should have taken George Pickens once he fell to the second round. I wanted them to pick him over Jaquan Bristker. And people talked about his maturity. The Bears weren't ready to handle, you know, Pickens' personality and seeming immaturity issues that he had.

But he was a first round talent. And I don't know if he is now totally mature or if he is on the best behavior because of the money. But also you remember, when you fall to the second round, you don't make that crazy, crazy first round money. So one year fully guaranteed $27 plus million on the franchise tag, that is a great deal for George Pickens based on what he's made earlier in his career. Now, if he signs a five-year deal with three years of it guaranteed,

maybe then we will have some questions about whether or not some of the immaturity comes back into play. I don't know. We can't project out that far. But he will now play this year making more money than he's ever made. And then he will be playing for his next contract in an offense that passes more than any team in football. 600 pass attempts. So he had four more touchdowns than he had in any other season in his career. He had almost 400 more yards than any other season of his career. He had 30 more catches than any other season in his career.

So I feel like the money motivation and the offensive system that he's in, as long as he stays healthy and he played all 17 games. last year. I would expect him statistically to have a monster season. Yeah, speaking to that offensive system that he's in, in Pittsburgh, we saw him pretty much outside the numbers taken off running nine routes, which is a goal route, straight down the field, making great spectacular plays. And this offense, if you look at the screen, we see big end cuts. We see slants galore. We see that deep threat ability. We see the full gambit of a route tree. which is not what he was allowed

or talked about doing when he was in Pittsburgh. That system was a lot different than what he's asked to do now. Believe this, in year two, them knowing the version of George Pickens that was on full display, having a whole offseason to prepare for that,

knowing what you're going to anticipate getting, we're going to see George Pickens even in a different light, in my opinion. Having C.L.L.M. on one side, also really helps. He did not have that. So he upgraded at quarterback. He upgraded in passing volume. He upgraded at receiver opposite him. Now he's certainly upgraded in terms of the bank account.

I just, thanks to the World's Cup, we're going to just have a drama-free Cowboys offseason? It's been years, Greg. It's been years. This is the quietest Jerry Jones has been. We haven't heard anything. And it's a large part of it is because these got George Pickens, him being the first and up front, didn't make us think about the franchise tag. That helps. That helps. But training camps right around the corner, which means Jerry Jones

press conferences are right around the corner, which means he's going to say something to program some Wednesday shows over the next four weeks or so. Greg, good talking to you, man. We'll do it again soon. Coming up, the impact that Messi has made on this World's Cup. Pretty tough to overstate it. Messi and Argentina, of course, gearing up to go back to back. Hasn't happened since Brazil, 1958 and 1962. They take on Spain. No big deal, just the team that's won 37th executive matches

standing in their way. Should be a great final. Three Eastern, Sunday on Fox. The World Cup final stage is set. It's Lionel Messey in Argentina trying to go back to back. I know who they're all rooting for. They take on Spain, Sunday, three Eastern from New York, New Jersey Stadium,

of course, on Fox. So I am not a World Cup historian, but I will say this has been the best World's Cup of my lifetime. I remember going to a game in 94 with my dad. But if you think about it, this formula has been perfect for the American sports fan to fall in love with it. Happens on our soil. The game's in prime time. The games in our time zones where we can consume all of it. And the U.S. men's national team captivated us, made us dream.

We scored four goals in the entire last World Cup in 2022. This World Cup, it's an offensive explosion and a belief that we could win high-scoring games, that we had stars, that we could find the back of the net. Even if that ultimately fizzled out, it still ended up being the World Cup of Stars. We like offense. We love the NBA. It is star-driven. This World Cup, Erling Holland and Lionel Messi and Killian and Boppe, you look at the Golden Boot Leaderboard, and it's more goals than we're accustomed to. This is the most goals in the history of the World Cup.

Yes, there are more games. But the stars showed out in such a remarkable way in this tournament, and they continue to through the third place game. And of course, the World's Cup final. And the World's Cup, the Final Four being the first time ever, one, two, three, and four teams in terms of the FIFA rankings, make it to the semi-finals. And now we get to the World's Cup final. And it is the number one ranked team against the number two-ranked team. The first time in the history of a World's Cup final that the defending Euro champion, Spain, is facing. the defending World Cup champion in Argentina. Argentina, the best offense. They've scored more goals than any team in the tournament.

Spain, what have they done? Just allowed fewer goals, not only than any team in this tournament, they've allowed one goal, fewer than any team in the history of the World Cup. So the best offense against the best defense, with a team trying to go back to back and Leonel Messi. It has been a World Cup of Stars, and this tournament has been spectacular,

and I have no doubt that the World's Cup final will once again deliver. See us tomorrow on the OTs.