First Things First - Lakers ‘not a championship team’, A.J. Brown trade rumors, Mahomes Mountain, Seahawks back-to-back?

Episode Date: February 10, 2026

(0:00) Lakers ‘not a championship team’, Will the Patriots make it back to the Super Bowl?  (27:04) A.J. Brown trade rumors, Surprised Chiefs SB LXI odds are so low? (42:18) Is Mac Jones the next Darnold-esque reclamation project? (48:24) Mahomes Mountain (01:10:10) Who is the NFL’s next dynasty? (01:19:38) Top 10 Baseball Cards of All Time (01:28:45) Top 10 Tuesday, How should the ’25 Patriots be remembered? (01:53:13) Klint Kubiak officially Raiders HC (02:02:33) Can Drake Maye reach another Super Bowl? (02:10:51) Who has the best nickname in Football? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

New York. The show is going to bring back one of its classic characters, the bad boy of sports television, underutilized character. It's now that we're done with the doorstep for the destiny. Yeah. It lasted like two weeks. Yeah, and then it was gone. It's like Professor Brutow.

Well, I wanted to keep him, but Dusty had an issue. I trimmed it a little bit. Oh, post football season trim. You're resplendent. What about me? Well, Brew cuts his own hair. You put on your own hair. I put my post Super Bowl here.

I saw you ready for vacation. You can swim in it, you know? Can you? Wow, don't box. Not too long. I was, you know, not too long. You get in and out of the water, but by the way, oh, I'm sure you're going to talk. What, you're talking about your highlights?

No, I was going to talk about the big thing happening on the show today. You should put him in for the trip. I was going to talk about the big thing on the show today. Go ahead. Is it not in your teeth? I don't know.

The big reveal? The big reveal that's coming. This is huge. It really is. The top to you know about. about it. The top 10 cards. Oh yeah. I didn't know. I can tell if you're being serious. No, I'm being totally serious. No, I don't have highlights. Okay. One of those things is true. He really does. We are doing the top. Where are? A joke about his high. Oh, he gets upset.

Which makes me think he said he really did. He really did put in highlight. You said with a tink foiled in hair. I thought. Why would I highlight my hair? That's what I'm wondering. You did. All I know is you did. I don't know why. I did it. It looked all right. I thought it looked all right. I thought it looked good. Today, Super Bowl hangover starts now and could it extend to Drake May's entire career? The odds are yes.

Oh, wow. One stat that will say the odds actually are no. Meanwhile, Seahawks favorites to go back to back, what's stopping them? I'm not sure. And finally, a way too early version and controversial, bro. It was very kind of. Of Mahomes mouth. Very kind of.

What's the point of playing the games? Why not play just? I can't believe this is going to be your take. I can't believe it. You sound like Danny Parkins. No, I don't. Just like I ran the numbers independent of the game. No matter what you see, Justin Herbert is the best quarterback.

Danny, who I know is watching right now, very mad at me because I got an early look at top 10 Tuesday. I can't wait for that. Which is coming up in overtime. I cannot wait for that. It was very bad. It's going to be like a Jackson Pondon. This thing is a mess, but I like it.

I can't wait for it. Yeah. Right now, it's the first hour, first things first, and we're starting with the future of Drake May. Super Bowl in a second year, that's pretty good. Same as Dan Marino. Problem is, Dan Marino never got back. Yeah. Now, on paper, this Super Bowl appearance from Jeremy Fowler could be the first of many, but that's hardly a slam dunk.

Not out there like Larry Johnson dressed as grandmama, you know what I mean? You know what I mean? Great timely reference. Wow. My words, not Jeremy Fowler, referencing grandma mom. Just keep going, man. React juice. He had those converts.

Damn arena was also choice. You never seen Hardin. Super Bowl 19. Never returned. Joe Burrow was 25 when he led the Cincinnati Bengals to Super Bowl 56 in year two. Since then, he's, that guy's only got one playoff appearance in four years as injuries mounted. So, man, this spells disaster for poor Drake May. Do you believe Drake reached?

is another Super Bowl. Oh, man. Now, I would encourage people not to make these types of bets that you can't win for 10 to 15 years. It seems like a weird way to hold your money in. Yes. In escrow, so to speak. I wouldn't, so I would not do that.

But if you were to offer me 50-50 yes or no, I think the smart money slightly would be on no. And part of that is to do with the conferences, in. Part of that is to do with the one team in the division that he's in. Part of that is to do with what is I think a very real

history of the scar tissue for a team and for a player of losing a Super Bowl together before you win one. And all of that and the cruelty of single elimination sport. And all

of those things put together because you listed some of them, but just, you know, since we've been either on this show together or all in sports media, year two, Colin Kaepernick made a Super Bowl and looked like a superstar. Now, obviously, his career went a different way for a lot of different reasons. Never made it back. You mentioned Burrow. Brock Purdy.

And again, Purdy's story is far from being over, but injuries have mounted for him. He hasn't been as close since then. Jared Goff made one in year three. did not get close again until he changed teams. Drew Bledsoe, number one pick, golf was number one pick. Drew Bledsoe, number one pick for the Patriots, made one in year four, never got close again as a starter. Cam Newton, number one pick, actually won MVP, got there in year five, never got close again.

Donovan McNabb, number two pick, got there in year six, never got close again, really. And so the pedigree part of Drake May, number three overall pick, there already seems like it would be, you know, immunize him to a degree from the Super Bowl hangover. But that hasn't been the case. And then when you add to it, Brew, Jalen Hertz last year was just the second quarterback in 50 years to lose the first Super Bowl they were in and ever win one. Yeah. John Elway, the only Ford ever do it are Lynn Dawson, who lost the first Super Bowl and then won Super Bowl four. Bob Greasy, who lost the Super Bowl, then won back to back in the 70s. And then John Elway, who lost three in the 80s and then won two at the end of his career, Jalen Hertz.

And so I sadly for KW would say, I'm obviously not slaming the door on it, but if you were asking me yes or no, I would say slightly to the no. Well, look, and you put on top of that, Mahomes isn't done, Lamar, Josh. Now, I know they haven't gotten to one, those two, but still. That's fair. Burrow. I mean, these guys are all in their primes. That's not to mention Trevor Lawrence, Bo Nix, who's with a good team. Well, CFC, J. Stroud turns around, but that team is good.

Like, there is serious competition for him. That's just the AFC, let alone the NFC as far as winning the Super Bowl. But I'm going to say he does get to one more. Okay. I think one more. I mean, who does? You know, I'm just projecting. I would think maybe they win that one.

But I think he gets to one more. And I am saying it because of this, Nick. He's with a great organization. Correct. He is with the greatest owner in the NFL, right? Wow, that's nice. Well, I mean, you look at his track record. There's no question.

And he's got a great coach. He's got a great offensive coordinator who is not likely to get ahead. coaching job anytime soon. Absolutely. And a coordinator who's been to several Super Bowls. You can argue that's what has hurt Jalen Hertz. Oh, yeah, yeah, absolutely. And so.

And C.J. Stroud. Yeah. His offensive coordinator is changing. He's got all of that. He's got this team to the Super Bowl. I get it to the schedule. It was easier so they could rack up more wins. However, he did it with certainly later in the season,

an offensive line that has a lot of room for improvement. no phenomenal skilled position players. So maybe if they go get a star or, you know, he should get, he should be better as far as skilled position players in the future, have a better old line in front of him. And just the fact that he's so young, he's going to get better. I think going through all these games will help him. He seems to have a great head on his shoulders.

And so I just think, I hear you, Nick, and you're right, especially when you look at all of the competition there is. However, Ben, he is in a great position. And great, like I said, great coach who's Vrable, we know how much he wants to win the Super Bowl as a coach. So I just think he's going to get back to one more. The question for you, I think, Nick, is do you view this question? I mean, it is a quarterback question.

But do you view it through a lens of Drake May, or do you view it through a lens of Vrable and the craft organization? because I know you're like, well, Jalen Hertz is the only guy to do it. The way I looked at it, Jim, Kyle Shanahan has been back a few times and the quarterback was interchangeable. Sean McVeigh, the quarterback,

great, you know, now we look at Jared Goffes, but he's been back a few times, a few times, a two different quarterbacks. So I just keep the Eagles organization. Yes. You didn't mention, yeah. Yeah, I didn't even count Nick Foles is part of that, but I should have. So I view, like, I view the,

the Patriots more like the Rams. But instead of switching out the quarterback, more like the 49ers. Instead of switching out the quarterback, we just keep the same quarterback, same coach, same front office, and have continued... So this is where I would

I guess push back on the thing Bruce said at the beginning. And this is, I guess, in the same bucket of, you know, say what you want about Nick Siriani, Windsor, coaching stat. That the evidence supports the best owner

in the NFL is Robert Kraft. I don't view the Patriots as organizationally, as buttoned up across the board and as well oiled machine as the three organizations you just mentioned.

And I understand crap, like, he's hired great head coaches. Well, he's hired three, right? And one of them was a disaster, right? And Mayo? Mayo. Well, one year. Right, but that's the right.

But he hired Parcells. So three of the four. Oh, I'm sorry. I forgot to hear of Parcell. You're right about that. Parcell's Belichick. And he got rid of mail quick. He didn't let it simmer for five years.

But the other, so I have a hard time with some of the Patriots success of. Was everyone involved in the Belichick Brady tenure, you know, in the goat conversation for what they did because they all racked up those numbers together? Or was Tom Brady pulling a disproportionate? load. Was Belichick pulling a disproportionate load? Kraft is a long for it. I don't know. But what I do think is the Patriots don't, even with Brady, have the tendency to spend and creatively spend the way the Rams have and the Eagles have maybe in line with the Niners, to a degree.

And so I think that could be preventative to a degree. And so I just... Maybe. I definitely think Kraft was, for lack of a better phrase, along for the ride with Belichick. and Brady, but again, he hired Parcells and now Vrable. So I think he's shown enough outside of those guys, at least where he's competent and knows what he's doing. Oh, yes, I agree.

I don't think they have a bad ownership situation. I just, I also don't, I don't know what to make of the fact that I mentioned the last 50 years, only, the only two quarterbacks to lose their first Super Bowl and win one were Elway and Hertz. The only guys to get back is Craig Morton. who didn't really get back because he had to change teams to do it. So he got back, but it was, and then two guys who went to a bunch of Super Bowls and lost them, Fran Tarkington, who kept going and losing in Jim Kelly.

I just, I don't know what, I can't prove it, and it's enough small enough of a sample that it might be random, but it does feel like that football's so hard and the season can be so cruel, that losing a Super Bowl before you've won one, you know, as a collective, can do real damage to the things that you were saying Wilds were special and the vibes and all that stuff. I don't know how much of that is for it. Like the Seahawks had won a Super Bowl and then losing that next one broke the team. I'm talking about. They were winning 10.

Right. They still were a good team. No, but they had to get rid of the whole defense they had to get rid of within two years because they were so mad about how the game ended. You know what I mean? Like they. I also think, I think in the air. now, and it's been a long time now, but free agency. A lot of Fran Tarkinson,

you know, that was before free agency, where those teams were just stacked every year. Whereas now, if some guys can't get over the Super Bowl, hangover, whatever, eventually you're going to bring in new guys. Just looking at this, how many guys were in the Super Bowl ahead of schedule? That's what

I would think, even going back to like, McNabb was not ahead of schedule. McNab was kind of, I would say Cam was at the peak of his powers. He wasn't getting better post No, golf, Barrow,

Purdy. Yeah. And those guys could get back. So maybe the jury is still out. Marino was ahead of schedule.

He still was great, but yeah. But Marino's career is one of the weirdest ones ever. In that they make the Super Bowl in year two. It's his best year.

Easy schedule. Oh, yeah. No, that's the different Dolphins team. That's 72. Well, with that 84. But, um,

look up that 84 easy. No, but Brew. And then the next year they get to the AFC title game. Yeah. And then the whole rest of his career, they only get to one more conference title game. Marino's career is unlike.

There's no comp for it. All right, well, let's take a look at the Super Bowl champions and their odds next year. Very kind to the Seahawks. They are favored to go back to back. I think they're tied with the Rams, which Danny was calling the real Super Bowl. So it stinks.

Stinks for me, at least, you know. Are you buying that the Seahawks can go back to back they deserve to be? In back to back, we're talking about winning it, Not just getting there. Yeah. That's how I'm looking at it. Look, they can.

I mean, they're obviously a very good team. Donald's still young. I do, I'm interested to see how losing Kubiak to OC, does that have any effect? Now, this was his first year with Kubiak. So it's not like he's been winning for three years. So you would think he'll adjust to whoever it is. And they're obviously smart enough to keep a lot of the stuff that was working and all of that. So I think he'll be fine with it.

The defense obviously is great. You got the skilled positions, assuming they bring back Kenneth Walker to third too. So I could, yeah, I mean, like I'm not going to write them off, but I view them kind of like I viewed. I'm not saying they'll have as bad a year as Philly had. Bad year, if we call it that. But I view them like I did, Philly,

where I think they'll be good. They'll make the playoffs, but they're not going to win. I would pick against them getting back to the Super Bowl. The teams that have won it, Nick, and you mentioned it in your last answer, all the quarterbacks that have gone back to back are Hall of Famers. And I guess you might say, well, if Sam Darnel wins the next Super Bowl, then, okay, he's starting to build a case. But I mean, Bart Star, Bob Greasy, Terry Bradshaw, Joe Montana, Aikman, Elway, Brady, and Mahomes. I'm not ready to put Sam Darnel in that class. And I get they have a great team.

but I am not going to give him that. And this was a team that was led by their defense. And two of the greatest defenses that we've seen, and we've even mentioned them over this past week, the 85 Bears, the 2,000 Ravens, they didn't get back. It was like a one. The Steel Curtain did. That's like one of the one.

O2 Fox as well didn't get back. Right. The Steel Curtin is really one of the few great ones that and in Miami in the early 70s. Those are like the only two great defense. that did get back and repeat. So, yeah, I don't think they will. One thing that they don't have going for them that Philly did this year is upheaval in their own division. That Philly, you know, while it was working through whatever it needed to work through

and it never worked through at all, they had the safety blanket of, yeah, we're going to be in the playoffs. Yeah. So even if we have some injuries or some discontent, if we can get it right by January, we can get it right by January. will be there. Philly had that backstop, I do not believe Seattle will. I think they are in an incredibly

difficult division. I think they have while Philly's division was dealing with coaching turnover or new coaches or coaches on the way out, I think two of the best coaches, three of the best coaches now in all of the NFL are in that same division. In

McVeigh, Shanahan, and obviously Mike McDonald. I agree with you, Brew, that certainly in the modern era of the NFL, every team that's gone back to back, forget Hall of Famer, has had legendary quarterbacks. Like the worst, and I say this,

worst, the worst quarterback to go back to back in my lifetime is Troy Aikman. And Troy Aikman's pretty damn great. And so that's what makes it tough. What makes you think, yeah, I think they can do it because I saw a team basically do it, and they

played in the same city, and wore the same uniforms is the path of the 2013-2014 Seahawks that going into that year, no one thought was a Super Bowl, you know, the contender. Midway through the year, people kind of started to believe the real, we've arrived moment,

I don't know how many people remember it was, Richard Sherman yelling at Tom Brady when he was going off the field when the Seahawks beat the Brady Patriots. It's like, oh, wow, this team's for real. Then they just kicked the teeth in of the Broncos in the Super Bowl

and then the next year felt like they rode that wave all the way into the playoffs. Now that playoffs was shaky for him. They needed the crazy comeback into the Packers in the conference title game and they ended up losing the Super Bowl by a yard. But that team, Russell Wilson, again,

like you were saying, had he won that game, he would have been a Hall of Famer, but was not at that point. when we were ranking quarterbacks much higher than Sam Darnold would be ranked right now but he did his job well he knew what it was he was clutch

and that defense was awesome so I'm not I am by no means slamming the door on it I don't think this was a fluke I don't think this team's not going to be heard from again and I do think they have like that Seahawks team did a great coach that is going to be very important but it's just so hard

and the competition in NFC just their division We know how close the Rams work to them. Now San Francisco, which beat them once, is going to be healthy, presumably. I don't know. Right, but if they're healthy, that's a team that's going to give them some trouble. So it's going to be very tough. I know you like Arizona, too.

That's your opinion. Lakers Thunder, battle between the defending champions and, well, honestly, the fifth best team in the West. Pretty simple explanation of how this game went. And LeBron didn't mince words? after the game take a listen you want me to compare us to them no I want to know where you think so that's a championship team right there we're not so I understand what are the biggest things you think that are keeping this team we can't sustain energy and effort 48 minutes and they can that's why I won a

championship there you go your reaction to honest LeBron he's absolutely right They're not a contender. They're a playoff team. I think they're sealing. And I'm being generous here is second round. Like get beaten the second round. Because if they're the fifth C right now, fourth they would play Houston. I mean, that's not an unwinnable series.

San Antonio is young, but I think their athleticism would give the Lakers some problem, not to mention Wembe. But if they're sixth, then you get, you might get Denver or San Antonio in the first round. you could go out in the first round. They're a good team, but the thing that kills them is they don't play defense. That's basically, that's all it is to it. Their three best players aren't defenders. LeBron now because of his age and obviously Luke and Reeves,

not to mention their three best players have only played 10 games together. So they're not even really developing great chemistry. They are all smart enough where they can make it work together, but still they're not developing the type of chemistry they would need to pull off an upset in the playoffs because they're just injured. And Nick, they're 22nd in the league in defensive rating, 27th in opponent's field goal percentage. And these athletic teams really give them problems. Like OKC last night, obviously OKC didn't even have SGA. Obviously the Lakers didn't have Luca, but still.

But it was just the athleticism of those guys. those are the types of teams that are just too fast, too athletic for the Lakers. So they're a playoff team, but I don't think they're a legitimate contender. And right now they are being held together by the fact that despite being at his age and despite Luca's limitations, LeBron and Luca are still two of the best clutch players in the league, which is why they are 23 and 0 when leading out. after three quarters. And then what does that mean?

They are 9 and 30 in all other settings. This is the third time in LeBron's Lakers career. They have been at or near the top of the whole NBA and winning percentage after leading through three quarters because when the game, if it's close late, last five minutes and the game slows down, some of those limitations LeBron has at his age, you know, get minimized and IQ and things like that.

And Luke obviously can create a bucket as well as anybody. but their net rating, like their point differential, is that of a 500 team. They have the same net rating as the magic and barely ahead of the clippers. And so... I think the magic are the only other team with a winning record that has a one net low.

Correct. And so they probably aren't quite as good as 32 and 20, but they're winning in the margins. But the bright side for the Lakers is this. You're not a championship contender and your front office and current ownership are fine with that because they're not trying to be. Because the Lakers have, in 2024,

they punted on any real improvement. In 2025, they traded for Luke at Ancich. It was obvious to everyone when they traded for him. Well, this team wasn't built for Luke. If you're going to try to win this year, you've got to make another move. They're like, nope, that's what the off season's for. The off season, they did nothing substantial.

The trade deadline, again, they did nothing. substantial and they're keeping this pipe dream of maybe Janus and if not they're already peddling within 2027 to have our cap space and LeBron will be gone. It's it's Luca who and there was one article last week or lightly sourced it seemed that Luca's a little frustrated at the lack of urgency because he feels maybe the way I feel which is if you have prime Lucidantzic you probably shouldn't just be like okay it's okay to just be good. But do you think I don't think that's their attitude.

I mean, they went out and got DeAndre Aiton. You can argue over whether you think he's a, theoretically, he's a fit with Luca. Pick and roll, throw him lobs at the rim and theoretically, again, he could defend. I mean, it wasn't much out there as far as sinners. Like, I don't think they're mailing it in. I don't think they're saying, okay, we're pretty good making a playoffs. We're fine with that. I think they're smart enough to know every year we have Luca Donchage in his prime.

We've got to go for it. but they just haven't been Luca is difficult to build around period and I mean because you got the maps figured it out well one they got they had Kyrie Irving who was another all time great player I know he's not top 30 or anything but a Hall of Fame player

and they got to the finals and then got blasted so I guess if you want to say getting to the finals one year's figuring it out but Luke they built around him they got defenders athletes spot up shooter and then they had another great player. But a guy that's so ball dominant doesn't defend, he's hard to build around.

So, no, listen, I agree. There are certain types of players that you have to acquire if Luke is on your team. And those players aren't easy to come by. What I would say about the Mavs is they, you know, they Scotch taped it together and made a conference finals, had a bad year, then made the finals, and we don't know what that team would have continued to look like

because he then got traded. What is, when I'm saying there are, fine with it. This is what I mean, Brew. I am giving the Lakers front office credit for at least having as high of a basketball IQ as me. I won't even

give them Bruce's basketball IQ. I'll just give them mine. And going into the year, I was like, yeah, that team doesn't have any defenders. And doesn't have the types of players that you need to win with Luke Adonchich. So if going into the year, we all looked at it, it was like, you have

prime Luke Adonchich, you have Austin Reeves who's up and coming and better than we expected whatever you're going to get out of LeBron but that roster is drawing dead and they went into the year with it and then in the trade deadline they were like you know what we should add another non-defender who can shoot that to me it's either

you don't know what it takes to create a winning basketball team I assume they do or you're like no it's okay or they just can't make the moves they haven't been able to make the move man it in a world where Anthony Davis can be had. I know they couldn't get Anthony Davis because they weren't going to trade him back. But for two bad first round picks, it feels like if you were willing

to trade future assets, players were available. Maybe I'm wrong. I mean, maybe the, but it's felt to me like this Lakers team was poorly formed from the beginning. And so I don't know what you do. Is AJ Brown looking to fly away from Philly that's next on FS1, the Fox Sports Channel on Series X-N? Also, Ruth, nothing wrong with getting to the final game and getting blasted. I'm not. Reverential. Hey, guess where we're going? Daytona 500, Thursday and Friday.

We're going to kick off the show with Clinton Boyer on Thursday at 3 o'clock, so that'll be great. First things first, live from the Daytona 500. Great. We don't have no jackets. Friday. I'm going to wear it on the plane. Are you guys really? Oh, yeah.

We're pushing. We put several feelers out, let's say. A.J. Brown rumor mills, churning. Mike Rofalo reporting that AJ's future with the team is in doubt but the Eagles haven't had any trade talks yet. Maybe it picks up around the combine. Do you think it's time for the Eagles to move on from A.J. Brown, bro. Well, I certainly would be listening to calls and making calls too.

I would not give him away. He's too good of a player for that. But I would definitely be like, if we can get something where there's draft picks, where there's a player that is comparable, then I'm doing it. And I'm starting to feel like the Eagles might be in for a rough season. You think? Right.

Yeah, it's just too many, like, and here's the thing. You can look at it in two different ways, but we know they're going to have a new offensive coordinator, new offensive line coach, new past game coordinator, new run game coordinator, right? That you could look at that, and this is fair to say, oh, yeah, and it's going to be much better. It's going to be a whole different show. Or I'm looking at it like, it might be a lot of.

of turmoil. If it doesn't go well, AJ, and if it's turmoil, AJ is going to speak his mind, and I think it can really get bad. So I would look at moving on from him. Some of the competitive fell on drag from yesterday.

It's the gift that keeps on giving. There's still some balloons up there too. They're going to fall one day. Yeah, but yeah, but that I would definitely be looking to get rid of him, not giving way, but definitely seeing what I can get for. And just to add to that for you, and

seems like Lane Johnson might retire. And he's the one guy this team year over year had really struggled winning without, but go ahead. So, no, no, I don't think it's time to move on from A.J. Brown. Again, I'm with you in terms of listening to what's out there. I wouldn't be aggressively making the calls, but if teams are calling me about and acquiring about AJ Brown,

then okay, I'm definitely listening to see what we can get. And I say this because there is so much turnover. When you have a new play caller and there's so much that didn't go right in the previous year, and just because he's been the vocal one out of everyone, we look at him as sometimes the problem. and it's not necessarily that he's been the problem. He's been a large part of the solution and reason why they have success

or somewhat success in the passing game. And I just think it's challenging to just get rid of somebody like that unless you're going to get something that you feel really strongly about that can make your team better and improve you in specific areas. I don't know if that happens. And so for that, I don't believe all the way in the quarterback in terms of not having the added personnel around him to elevate everybody to be a contender.

I know you do wilds. We all know where it should happen. What should happen? A.J. Brown left Tennessee, an organization that was going through some turmoil, landed with the Eagles, had some great years, won a Super Bowl, said, you know what? That was great, but I need more. Then had a down year and was telling people on a live stream, hey, if you've got me in fantasy football, put me on the waiver wire. I'm not getting the ball.

Then he's sitting at home once the Eagles get eliminated from the playoffs. He turns on the television. He said, hold on a second. Is that my old coach getting blown out in the Super Bowl? Can't complete a pass? No, it could help him. Old AJ Brown. So that quickly you're going to move on from Stefan Diggs?

No, I like Stefan Diggs. You think I am party B? I'm loyal to. I'm loyal to Stefan. I agree with me, right? Yeah, I don't think you can have both of them. Well, you would take, you would take AJ. No, I don't think Stefan makes that much money.

But I just, but I, but I, listen, I, but I have a very different opinion on Stefan Diggs in the wide receiver hierarchy than my pal KW who had him in the top five going into the Super Bowl. No, he's trying to say they would have them both. No, I think if the Patriots just went to the Super Bowl and didn't have a true. dominant number one wide receiver. And A.J. Brown is fond of Mike Rable, and we've got the 11th most cap space and a team that is all in together. Like, say what you will about Saryani, and I do think the guy wins. It doesn't feel like everyone is necessarily always pointing in the same direction. No, I totally agree.

I am surprised that with the Patriots being first team, all of the team. American vibes with it being a true meritocracy on who Drake was going to throw to that you would want to get in the AJ Brown business. Go ahead. I don't think I don't want to have like a mercurial power rankings, but I think if we did Stefan Diggs would be higher than A.J. Brown. And Stefan Diggs bought into the Patriots. So, yeah, also was a good soul.

I was going to say he was a model. So may it's just a maturation of the player. meeting a coach that, you know, you get buy-in from, and it's mutually benefit, and a quarterback that you like, and it's mutually benefit. So I, listen, New England is going to be, first of all, trading him, he's $23 million on your cap to play for you. He's $43 million if you trade him. For AJ, not trade for him, KV.

I'm saying for Philly. Yeah. Which means if I'm Howie Roseman, the table stakes is at least a first round pick. but again you guys have a late first round pick so that's not a top 10 pick no one's trading that for a J. Brown

but a good team trading a first round pick is what I think would get Philly interested New England is going to come up I would imagine Buffalo they should will come up

and I would imagine Denver I don't know I was thinking Houston the and you I don't think I think he and Nico are too duplicative. Nope.

Right. I think they could both, they could play alongside each other. One of the things that's kind of lost history on the C.J. Stroud meltdown game was also Nico Collins was out that game. So he really was without, because of the terrible injury of Tank Dell. Maybe he comes back.

But he's supposed to be ready to go. He had missed, you know, missed the full season. So I think those teams, I also wonder if they would trade within the conference, if the Niners might be like, well, we used to have a bunch of receivers. now we have none.

And so they would be interested. What I am saying is there is a scorpion and the frog component to getting in business with A.J. Brown, which is he has been highly productive and prolific statistically in both of his NFL stops and worn out his welcome in both of his NFL stops,

one of which Vrabel was his coach. Now Vrabel seems like what fractured the relationship with him in the front office was trading A.J. Brown. Like he wanted to keep him. He was fine with it. The front office wanted to move on. So I don't put you guys in desperate mode.

I think Buffalo is kind of desperate. And so to me, they make more sense than you. I'm in rookie quarterback who can reach the Super Bowl mode. Right. You're talking about the-go all in. I wonder about the, and I like Buffalo better. Both of them obviously could use him. But in Buffalo, I don't think he's,

Josh Allen has done too much for him to squawk about Josh Allen, not getting the ball. I don't think he can say the same things about Josh Allen that he's implied about Jalen. There's two games where Jalen Hertz did not complete a pass in the second half. It's okay for AJ Brown to raise his hand and say this is that. But that's not the only reason he was doing it. He was doing that en route to winning the Super Bowl.

So I'm just saying I don't think he can, I think he has to have too much. much respect for Josh Allen to make noise. I'm not so sure that Drake has that level of respect. That's why I would. A young quarter of any young quarter of it. I'd be scared of it. I just, I don't know. He might mouth off and then the vibes are gone.

I don't think that's just, I mean, we talk about like team culture. There was just none of that. Now, maybe that's because of who you got. You were 14 and 3 because you were 14 and 3 and everything was easy until it wasn't. And you really had no stars. other than Drake and Christian Gonzalez. I don't know. I trust in Mike Rable.

And Stefan was historically tricky, and he loved Rable. Mack Collins wearing costumes to the game. And everyone's in the same direction. Yeah, I mean, okay. I would just be careful with it, is what I'm saying. I am not as, I am not as certain as you are that there are certain that you could drop any personality into the Patriots team and Brable's just going to...

No, but maybe I don't view A.J. Brown as this malcontent like other people. I thought he was raising his hands like, why are you targeting me once for eight yards? He was unhappy three days after they won the Super Bowl. Yeah, so was Nick Sabin. Guess what? That's what it takes sometimes.

Looking ahead to next year for the former Super Bowl champs, the Chiefs, tied with the charges for the ninth best Super Bowl odds. Nick, are you surprised they are this low. So leave this up for a second because our odds providers are forensic draft kings, but I just want basically every book out there has Seattle, Rams, and Bills is top three.

And then as just a four instance, the Patriots have at Caesars, the Patriots have the 11th best odds instead of fifth and the chiefs have tied for the fourth best odds instead of where they are in ninth. So it's very close, you know what I mean, in the margins between two. teams four through 11 essentially, even in the odds on there, from 13 to 1 to 16 to 1. But the reason I'm not surprised is I read this as 100% a hedge on. Is Mahomes playing week one or is Malhom's playing week six? And I think, I don't know if you guys agree or not, I think that if it were announced,

Patrick Mahomes is fully cleared and is on track to play week one, then they jump up somewhere in the top five. like around where Philly is probably behind Buffalo because they're always behind Buffalo in the preseason odds. But if it's announced, oh, wow, Patrick's not expected until week six, I think they fall out of the top half. You know, I like that. So I think that's what this is. I agree with a lot of that.

But I do have to admit, I mean, they were a legit six and eight with Mahomes. Yes. And Rice didn't kind of pop like we expected. Xavier didn't pop like we expected. we'll see if Kelsey's starting to look like he might be back, but we don't know. He's not going to be younger. Yeah, right.

So I mean, and you made a great point, Nick, that those are so bunched together. And that's the thing. It's really not saying they're the ninth best team or whatever. But I just do think there's reason to have questions. And then even if Mahomes even is playing from week one, how is he, how's the need this year running was a big part of his game. So does that, is that affected?

So I just think there are a lot of question marks there with them, so I'm not surprised. I pulled the opponents, Nick, and I just wanted to your general. You have some tough games on here. Rams, Seahawks, 49ers, we think are going to be good. We'll see how good the Colts are. Do you want, let's, if Mahomes is back week one, he's not going to be 100% week one, even if he's 95%. Do you want hard games week one that maybe we would have lost anyways, even with Mahomes, or easy games week one.

I want the first game. Listen, I always prefer, I think hard, late is better because we don't, teams change. You know what I mean? So it's like, oh man, like if you teams that saw, right, exactly. Teams that have the Chiefs late in the year.

On their schedule, they were like, oh, man, that's a brutal game we have late. And then they're playing Chris Aladukean. But I want the, I want the, I want the first game Mahomes to play to be against like the Raiders or something. I want his first game back to be against or the Jets, a bad team where he can ease himself back in. That schedule is tough. It's tough. It's tough. It's tough.

It is. I'm not surprised that the Chiefs are this low. And even if Mahomes were scheduled to be the starter week one and we kind of knew that, I think that they would still be hovering around this same spot because there would still be. be the questions that brew you're thinking about like well my homes was a healthy goal all of last year until he got injured and they they got off to a rocky start what makes me believe that they won't get off to another rocky start with the older Travis Kelsey we expected rishie rice to come right in and have impact and we felt like he did immediately but is the running

game going to be fixed offensive line wise what are you going to do there is mahomes going to be healthy to the point where he is the version that we've become accustomed to seeing, third down, third and forever, and it's like, is this a sure thing, or are we questioning whether he can get this or not? I think that is all fair, and you weigh that in when you look at the Chiefs. And they're not favorites to win the division. I don't think it's a Chargers? It's the Chargers. Who do you think should be? I'm not sure. I just know. I like the. Listen, I think the favorite to win the division, if it's not Kansas City, should be Denver.

I think that the Chargers stuff is just, well, Denver does, Denver. And I get, I don't want to get in a whole Joe Alt discussion. But assuming they got Slater and offback. Then it'll be someone else's fault. They're going to be missing their full. And his problem, Herbert's problem is the playoffs. Regular season, he should be all right. They've never won more than 11 games, right, in the regular season.

Like, I don't. I think they're going to have a great regular season. I mean. You, your Parkinson's come out here. No, I mean, I want to do. For the stay, Sam Darnold's Super Bowl champion, brew. And as you've been saying, he becomes the face of the QB reclamation project.

Yes. He gives a lot of credit to Kyle Shanahan, where he sat behind Brock and learned. So how about the person currently sitting behind Brock and learning? Mack Jones. Take a listen. My whole goal is to get back on track and get with Kyle, just work with them and learn and get my PhDs team football is what I've been saying, because it's true. And if I have to do that again next year, I'll be really excited. I feel like it's a good fit for me.

And honestly, it's a business. You know how this goes. And I've proven that I can be a starter, you know, in multiple different spots. I have 50 plus starts or whatever. So I know how to do it, but it's also a business. And I understand both sides of it. Heck yeah. Is Mack Jones the next Darnold-esque reclamation QB?

And if he's not, do you have a candidate for that? There are some candidates. I mean, I think Daniel Jones is still out there as that guy. So let's say Indy stays with him. He's a candidate. Malik Willis is a candidate. If I was Pittsburgh, I'd be interested in him, maybe even Cleveland. But for Mac, these two teams, I think, should go after Mac.

I think Minnesota should be behind JJ. Why? Because you've got to see what JJ is, I think. But JJ, if he's terrible, look, you can have him battle it out. I mean, we saw Mac for a few games. played well and I do think he should feel this way and I think maybe he can do it. I'm not going to say Super Bowl, but you know, maybe he can kind of be a darnal light or be a darnal.

But if I'm Minnesota, I do want to see what JJ can do. If Mack's so much better in training camp, maybe you just start Mac. But if JJ gets hurt, which has happened a lot or he's just not good, then you have Mac Jones in a good system with a good quarterback coach. And if I'm Pittsburgh, Mike McCarthy has been good with quarterbacks. Dak had his best years under McCarthy. I'm more interested in bringing him in than Aaron Rogers. And so that's where I would look at Matt.

Could he? Speak the truth, Greg. No. Thank you. He can't. I believe that he will get an opportunity to try to do it. I don't think that he can do it. I think he's in a really good situation

because we just saw what Sam Darno did in two different, with two different organizations, we think, oh man, anybody can do that. Mac Jones can. Well, Sam Darnold's a little more athletic, better quarterback. Better prospect, bigger, stronger, stronger.

The quarterback that you mentioned. Mac had a better start to his career. I understand that. The quarterback that I see small sample stock, Malik Willis. Like, for me, what I was able to see in Tennessee or what we did not see in Tennessee and to see him go over to a situation in Green Bay

develop and then once he was given the opportunity to be inserted and play, there was no drop-up. There was, we actually saw him run a offense. And again, the numbers support him. Like, again, the sample size is small, but 78.7% completion percentage was awesome for Malik Willis.

Just on what we were seeing prior. No turnovers. Like he was excellent. And now, again, we see the rushing TDs. Is that over two seasons? That was, yes, that's the 2-1 record over his starts. Like, I know it's a small sample size, but the growth and the maturity of the player that we saw from Tennessee to the first time we saw him a couple years ago in Green Bay take over. And they just wanted to run the ball to this year.

and they opened the entire playbook and he ran it seamlessly and effortlessly. And some say, man, he looked better than Jordan Love. I wouldn't go that far, but I felt like he should have had a package, you know, moving forward even in the things. So who you think she's up? Pittsburgh, maybe. Cleveland.

Minnesota. Yeah, absolutely. Because they want a guy that is athletic, that can get outside the pocket, that can still, they want a difference maker. That's why they felt. like we'll pass on Sam Darno, we'll let them go because they felt like there was a ceiling with Sam.

Yeah, it is. So I'm surprised none of you guys. Now we know that. Mentioned as a possible name, Kyler. But Kyler, I guess, a different path because he got paid and these other guys didn't. Listen, I don't think Mack Jones is as good as Sam Darnold. He's also

he's only one year younger. It's not like he has a bunch of time to, he came in the league three years later, He came in a little old. Darnold was super young. You guys also know that I think the Niners' offense is something of a quarterback stimulus package for who you're going to be elsewhere. But ultimately, it's kind of a moot point because the Niners are without a doubt keeping him.

Yes, that's true. Because, like, where I think if Darnold is, if Mack is going to be the next Darnold, it'll be in San Francisco. It'll be, seriously. He's going to be the quarterback. He's going to be the backup quarterback to Brock Purdy next year. And then we'll see. If Purdy gets through the whole year healthy, what Donald is,

or what Mac is, he's too valuable to them because they know they can win games with him. And right now, Purdy is a real injury risk. And so unlike Rogers or Malik Willis, that just costs you cap dollars. You have to trade for Mac Jones. And I don't know if teams are, if the Niners are going to make them available. Coming up next, the chilliest segment in a very controversial edition. It's so fair, it's boring. It's one of the more.

controversial segments we got out. I don't know why you're saying it's controversial. Because it's a little controversy. Just let the tiger out. That's all I'm asked for. Let the tiger out. Live from New York, the show is preparing for a very controversial segment. The second hour of first things first. It is a hot segment. Even if you know in the snow. You tell me about it. You're promising a lot. So you're very, I'm just saying it's controversial. I think he's going to do it and people are at home and he'll be like, I don't know what controversial. What you're going to say is the most controversial thing that anyone, it's more controversial than people saying Matt Stapper's top 10 all time.

It's more controversial than people saying anything about Sunday Super Bowl. What you're going to say is you're the only person in the world, including blood family of the person you're going to talk about who are going to have this name. Including that person. Yes. And the person, by the way, has been on this show in studio. What? Again,

Oh, wow. Way back. Greg and I did the show long before you came around. Was it on? This guy. See, this guy? He's just the worst. No, but it was on TV.

It was on the internet. A lot of those billion views that we got and well before your era. Wow, Gianna's shots at you. Today, if history is an indicator, we saw Drake's only Super Bowl appearance. On Sunday, my goodness. That hasn't happened since.

Let me check. Jalen Hurts lost the Super Bowl. Went right back. Meanwhile, Tops celebrating their 75th anniversary, and we break down and debut and announce the top 10 Tops cards of all time. And we've got armed guards outside, so we have $30 million worth of sports cards in the studio. I feel like now people are going to come to the studio.

But right now, let me get you a comment. up to speed on a controversial segment we got for you. We reached the summit of the Super Bowl and the confetti has fallen like a snowy day. Now we look forward to a new climb in 2026. I know you're thinking that's way too early. Indeed it is. So grab your snowshoes. It's time for a way too early edition of Mahomes Mountain.

Controversial edition that is. I have to say, KW, I'm a little disappointed. With what? As I'm sure Brew is as well. Greg wasn't here last week. I know he watches. Last week for the Mahomes Mountain intro, Wilds didn't do any of the pre-recorded stuff,

that's fine, didn't even put on the goggles. And when I said he was mailing it in, he said, I've decided I don't want to be a clown anymore. That's right. And I assumed that was because your team was playing in the Super Bowl, you thought they were gonna win, and you were like, I'm gonna be the voice of the Super Bowl champion. But then you guys got curb stomped and now we can go back to what's worked.

We have fake snow on the desk. We have fake snow on the screen and you won't put on the ski goggles. Why do I have to wear ski goggles? It's a part of the big. It's a part of the because we're not national treasure. You are. Listen, I'm not mad. I'm disappointed. Off the mountain. Not skiing, I almost said, not climbing. Gino, because I don't, where's Gino going to play? That's my question. He's going to be the veteran. He might be.

Or could he end up being the Steelers quarterback or someone? I don't know. 2.0, where's he going to put? Michael Pinnockson and Kurt Cousins, who's going to play there? J.J. McCarthy, who's he going to start in front of that he's worse than? I don't know. Shador Sanders. Shadoor should be on there.

He shouldn't be on the mountain, bro. He's QB1 in Cleveland. We, first of all, there's only 20. Do you have to have somebody, even if they're equal, you have somebody at the time, right? There's 20, there's only 28 spots on the mountain. There's 32 teams. So some starting quarterbacks aren't on there in the jets. Whoever starting for the jets are in trouble.

Just as the jets. Just the jets. Bottom row, couple number one picks. Cam Ward from last year, Francisco and Fernando, sorry. Fernando Mendoza for this upcoming year. Tyler Shuck, Jackson Dart, a couple of picks from last. Last year, I think Shuck was the best, but DART, I don't know, it was the best PR. Bryce Young and Kyler, another couple number one picks, and Aaron Rogers, who wasn't the number one pick,

and it's kind of carried that chip on her shoulder to a top 10 all-time quarterback career, Hall of Fame career. That's the bottom row of the mountain. Sixth row. Baker, another number one pick, by the way. Justin Herbert, Jaden, Daniel, C.J. Stroud, Brock Purdy, and Daniel. So let me go through these guys quickly. Nobody, I think, has been a bigger Baker supporter than me. But the final half of the season was a disaster.

And while he has built up enough equity through his time in Tampa to where no one's questioning his job security or anything like that, it did hurt his standing because he was, he had firmly entrenched himself right on the edge of that top 10. He fell back. Herbert, listen, if it were the Premier League, He'd be better. There's no playoffs. It's just regular season and then we see.

I don't know what to do with the guy who has limited playoff experience for the experience. He has been three unfathomable disasters. Jaden Daniels is an injury concerned. C.J. Stroud, we all know. TLTL. T.L. The lecture of the losing. Maybe you can come back from it.

Purdy has Matt. Mack Jones breathing down his neck. And Daniel Jones, I, everyone, as he's in such a weird spot. The culture market. He is not under contract and he has a pop to killies. So I don't know how any of that's going to play out. I don't feel good about that. I'm surprised he's this high, to be honest with you.

Well, guys who had played well this season or have a long history of elite play, I try not to hold a season ending injury against him. Thib throw. Jared golf, Jordan Love, Dak Prescott, Jalen Hertz, Bow Knicks. You can win with these guys all have very obvious strengths. strengths and somewhat obvious weaknesses, whatever they are. For golf, if it gets off schedule, if he gets pressured, he can get a little skittish. Jordan Love, a little too much, what would coward always say?

An artist out there, a little too much painting outside the line sometimes. Dak, he, if I'm going to hold against Herbert, he hasn't been bad in all his playoff games, but we've never seen to play his best since his rookie year in the playoffs. Hertz. He's a great leader. He has all the intangibles, yet oddly his team seems to rip itself apart every other year. I don't know what to make of it.

And Bo Nix is coming off the single greatest game of his career. And arguably, the best game any AFC quarterback played the entire postseason. Was Bo Nix in that divisional round game. But then he broke his ankle and what's another? I don't even know. I'm trying to think all the games. I think, Alan, uh, weak. one of the playoffs.

You know, Alan against the Jags. Remember the Prince through the game ending intersection? Yeah, I do remember. Speaking of the Prince. He had a game winning drive. He just gave it up to the round. Fourth row. Nick did not jump on him at all.

I did jump on him. I dropped him. The guy was top five MVP candidate. He's not top five here. Sam Darnold, Caleb Williams, Drake May, and the Prince. What a row. Average draft position of this row.

Two, even though none of them went two. It's three number one. I'm sorry, two number one picks and two number three picks. Darnold did not play great in the Super Bowl, didn't need to, played brilliantly in the game to get to the Super Bowl, which was their biggest game of the year. And as more data trickles out of the Super Bowl, how about this fun fact?

Down to the hundredth of a second, Darnold and Drake May, same average time to throw in that Super Bowl. Yet Darnold was able to avoid the rush, make plays. Drake May's got Will Campbell contemplating a career position change. Well, listen, sacks are a bit of a quarterback stat. Darnal gets plus for that. Caleb Williams, who Wilde, you know, was on for two days and has now turned on again.

Had to. No, I didn't. I texted Danny. We need Drake May to go Caleb Williams. Both scored 14 points in 90 seconds. And then yesterday, when we were talking about what Brew was talking. about quarterback rankings going into next season, and he said Drake's in the same area of Caleb and Jaden, you gave that look. You give when Brewer, I give a take that you hate,

where you're like you bit into a bad plum and you're like, eh, so that's what happened. And the Prince, I, listen, the top, now he has two top seven MVP finish. Is this now a top five MVP finish? Team 11 games. Without the number two overall pick, Travis Honor. Rowe three, three amigos, Alan Lamar Burrow, all under pressure every year, but all under a different type of pressure this year. For Josh Allen and Lamar, new coaches. For Joe Burrow, I mean, it can't be four years out of the playoffs, right?

Like, that's not going to happen. Drew Brees dealt with three straight seven and nine years. Like we've seen it, but it wouldn't be great. row two Matthew Stafford Patrick Mahomes you're looking at it so who is atop

Mahomes mountain who is the universally accepted best quarterback alive headed into 2026 and the answer is nobody that spots up for grabs given the year

Patrick had it was there for the taking for any of the those guys on the road beneath him. None of them could quite reach up and grab it. So it's vacant and we will see who goes and grabs it or Patrick reclaims it coming off the injury. That is the most fair. I had two weeks ago when we did,

I don't remember what we called it, it was a different way too early. I said no one took it from home so he stays there. Brew was like he can't stay there. Talked me out of it. I thought about it. I was like, you know what? Brew makes it fair pace.

So it's vacant for now. Well done, brew. We got Greg Jennings. Your thoughts? I actually was impressed that you left it vacant. Thank you. Magnanimous. I really was.

I really was. I'm interested to see, like, everybody who Wilde has. It's got to be jailing. It's a controversial. It's got to be jailing. It's a controversial day. Well, I'm, because of where he is, I just feel like we need more love.

So I, again, I understand how the, how the mountain works. If we were just going left and right, left to right, which I know, we don't go left to right. I would, this is my personal preference. I would definitely have him in front of golf. I would consider moving him up above the prince. Jordan Love, I think he gets a little bit of a knock based on what we have come to kind of not like or be concerned about regarding his place.

and we didn't see it this year, which is turning the ball over. And I think when we watch Jordan Love play, it's like, man, well, is he going to give you a turnover? Is he going to throw the ball away? Is he going to make that errant throw? And he just didn't really do that consistently this year. Like if you look at his numbers, they weren't, they didn't jump off the page in any area, but specifically when you look at touchdown to interception, 27 touchdowns to only six interceptions. 27 touchdowns to only six interceptions.

That speaks volumes in his maturity, his ability to run that offense, to still push the ball down the field the way in the fashion of which he chose to do with this offense and still not turn the ball over. Now, some will say I watch those games like you did, Greg, and a lot of people drop those interceptions. Well, a lot of quarterbacks can say the same thing.

But when you watch his last outing against the Bears in that postseason game while, card game. He did everything in his power to win that game. And I felt like his head coach, honestly, let him down. They didn't really lean into his superpower of just letting him go and push the ball down the field and make plays for you. So I would have, again, I think he's the best quarterback still in that, within that division. I still believe that Caleb is the scariest of all those quarterbacks. But I like, I would love for love. No pun to it. No pun to it. to get more love.

Had you, so you want me to switch him with the prince? So let's not call him the prince. Let's just call him Trevor Lawrence for now. Because the prince, you're going to have a hard time switching. Here's the thing. Had you made the case that I should switch him with Drake May? Get out of town. There's no possible way that is, no one has a case for that.

Well, I mean, Greg made the case that Jordan Love in his limited playoff. opportunities this year played brilliantly four touchdowns of one oh two rating yeah why were they limited did all those things is there I didn't see him later he didn't really have a defense he didn't really have a defense I mean his defense did I mean I want to be on your side waltz so let's not let's not attack Jordan Love so but I I can't I can't win I can't move him above Trevor when the year even almost called the Prince the year Trevor had in its totality left the right just between you and

You want me to move him to the left ahead of like to where he's first guy before golf? Yeah. Well, left or right doesn't matter. So sure. Yeah, no problem. I mean, and if it's not proven, left to right doesn't matter. You guys think I'm lying? Why would I have Drake May to the left of the prince when I obviously thought Drake was the guy hanging on for your life for that row?

Again, it's random. It's decided by our graphical artists. Drew, go ahead. I think Matthew Stafford has to be number one. Everybody's all American. Everybody's all-American. Wow, Drew, what a journey you've taken. Entry next season, he clearly had the best season

through 12 more touchdowns than any other quarterback. Wow. No one else even threw 35 touchdowns. He threw 46, lead in yards, and coming back, obviously, has a great offensive coach. So, like, we don't expect him to drop. He's 38, but coming off his best season of his career, Great offensive coach and mind.

Two great receivers still. Good running back in Kyra Williams. Like there's no reason to really think he's going to fall off. So I just think he's done enough. The confetti. I guess that means I'm making a good point. Yes. But yeah, I just think, and I think that's being fair to Mahomes, you know,

coming off with the injury and stuff. Put Stafford number one. I am. You know what? Everybody's all of them. If you'd have told me, six months. months ago that Chris Broussard, who coined the term, everybody's all American.

At first it was a little sarcasmus. That's my sound. As a point of duration, Stafford. As a way, it all started because I was upset that Brew had Stafford in that squishy fluid tier two that I said Stafford needs to be firmly in tier one. And Brew was like, oh, I'm sorry, I didn't know about everybody's All-American. We would hear about how much Tafford. talent the 08 Lions had and how Stafford couldn't get it done with Calvin Johnson and Indomicon 2.

And now he's advocating that on the top of the mountain. Brew, if I could change it on fly, I would do it. I'm just thrilled we're here. All right, Kate. Time now for one of the most controversial opinions you've ever heard in your sports viewing career. Because I agree that Matthew Stafford, the guy was the MVP. Won it fair and square. And he played great in the NFC championship game.

But he walked off the field. a loser because he was outplayed by the eventual Super Bowl champion Sam Darnold. If you win the Super Bowl, and I believe we have precedence on this, that last year Jalen Hertz emerged from the Super Bowl and granted he won Super Bowl MVP atop the mountain. Yeah. The point is to win the game. Sam Donald said, I have a great defense. I know what the recipe is to win the game.

It's not to throw for 400 yards and take some shots at Christian Gonzalez, who was going to grab one of those eventually. It's to just have 200 yards, take care of the ball, and leave with the trophy. So, Dusty, bail on my first graphic, if you can't. Well done. Because this is about, I want to go playoffs forward. This was, again, the numbers are not eye-popping necessarily because he ran into a great defense. But similar to Greg talking about how good Jordan Lulner. was and taking care of the ball.

This guy took a excellent regular season and got better. Yeah. And we kicked around, hey, are these playoff games won or lost? And it's kind of like a fuzzy question. A lot of them are just lost. Guys just give up the ball and give up the game. Sam Darnell's like, I got a great defense. I have five touchdowns, no turnovers.

And then the biggest thing we were worried about is Sam Darnall going pumpkin mode. And how do you go? pumpkin mode pressure. That was Sam Darnold's kryptonite to the point where the Patriots blitzed him on 70% of his dropbacks in the first quarter, which I think was the highest in the next gen error since everyone's been

alive. I'm not sure. But pastor rating under pressure in its highest in the playoffs since 2018. Holy cow, there's Sam Darnold. So the guy had one real weakness and he became great at it. And he's the Super Bowl champion. And there's precedence from previous Mahomes mountains. As an to Patrick Mahomes, who didn't get on this mountain, and the mountain wasn't named because the guy put up

eye-popping stats. Part of it, but part of it's because he's three-time Super Bowl champion Patrick Mahomes. So I'm not saying for the whole year, but I'm saying for the way too early addition of the Molles Mountain. For a week, for a week. The Super Bowl champion belongs at the top.

That's the wilds well done. It's not controversial, was it? So, okay, so a couple things only because you invoked precedent. Jail and Huron. had in his career already been to a Super Bowl, played quite well. I happen to think his performance is a touch overrated by the rest of the media, but he played quite well in a game that he lost with a fumble. Sure.

And had finished second in League MVP voting, the top five, top three MVP voting. Definitely top seven. No, I think he was second in League MVP voting. So he had done those things, second to Mahomes that year. And then one Super Bowl MVP and was brilliant in that Super Bowl. So he's in a little different spot than Darnold historically and even in that game. But there is also this piece of it, which is the person advocating Sam Darnold be atop Mahomes Mountain. Do you think Sam Darnold is the best quarterback in the NFL?

I do not think Sam Darnold is the best quarterback. in the NFL, I do believe that it's called Mahomes Mountain and not best quarterback in the NFL 1 through 28. Mahomes ballon has is a rich tapestry. A rich tapestry. So I think winning the Super Bowl should be part of the tapestry and perhaps the richest. It is part of the tapestry. Look, I'm getting everybody. He's showing up today. He showed up. He's showing up. He's six through nine. It is, he's somewhere six through nine. It is, he's somewhere six through He moved up quite a bit. I can't put Sam Darnold

atop Holmes Mountain at the morning. I'm saying he could never get there. No, he's never going to get there. No, of course he could get there. This is the time. Yeah. This is the moment. Yeah.

The guy's in the teacup with Kath Walker. This is his moment. It's not going to be like, oh, you know what? He won this over, Nick. He's got to get over. I didn't know what we did. I didn't think he could do it. He had 250 yards, three judges.

When he said it's a rich tapestry, and this perhaps is the richest part of the tapestry is winning the two guys. It's Super Bowl on Sunday. Because I don't think everybody's all-American is the best quarterback in the league. I'm not ready saying that. I'm just saying he deserved to be ahead. A Drake man guy?

No. I'm just saying he deserved to be ahead as the MVP. It's right there. But you're not controversial. It sounds like the simplest thing is to just leave Mahomes up there. You guys are arguing for people who you just said you don't think are the best quarterback in the league. To be fair.

Every time. Three to one, Super Bowl wins. Every time. The oldest is up there, I'm like, he's the best quarterback in the lake. You guys are arguing for guys. You're like, I don't even think he's the best guy in the lake. What are we doing? All right, coming up next.

Which team is on the doorstep of a dynasty? I thought it was the Patriots, but maybe it's the Seahawks. Maybe it's another team. Next. Welcome back to first things first. The Seahawks, our favorite to go back to back. They are tied with the Rams for the best odds to win the Super Bowl next year. The Patriots have the fourth best odds.

Nevertheless, there's some headlines coming. out to say maybe both of these teams are on the doorstep of a dynasty from Yahoo. Jason Fitz and Caroline Fenton are the Seattle Seahawks on the brink of a dynasty. Meanwhile, Jeremy Fowler, why Drake May and Patriots could build a dynasty despite the loss. So who's most likely, if it's not these teams, you can go pick your own dealer's choice to be the next dynasty. Does it hurt your feelings? You're okay with this? You're furrowed brown. I mean, I miss the playoffs. The The answer to this question is the team that might still be amidst their dynasty, the chiefs. Like, that's the, if we are going to say, hey, there was a dynasty in the late 2020s,

the best money would be on the team that only has to win one more Super Bowl, and it's like, yeah, it's still the Chiefs Dynasty. So I think that is the smart money there. I think if it's not the Chiefs, if the Chiefs dynasty is over, then the odds are nobody. And if I have to pick one, like we don't typically go seamless, dynasty to dynasty to dynasty like that.

But if I had to pick one team, the Patriots would not be my first draft pick. Because I don't know that they have a decided advantage within their own division. I don't think they have a decided advantage within their own conference. And I think that there were questions, raised by the playoff run that are big enough that is saying, okay, obviously they're going

to be perennial championship contenders is not a place that right now I'm willing to go to. Like I put their dynasty chances around the same I put the Bears, which are they both are starting from, you know, zero dynasty chips. I don't think making a Super Bowl and losing it before you've won, like it ramps you up the dynasty ladder. They both have young coaches I like, young quarterbacks I love. and teams that are good but have holes on the roster. Like, so that's the, and I think Patriots are in the tougher conference

to perennial get, perennially get to the Super Bowl in because of the quarterbacks there. I do agree is Kansas City because of Mahomes. Like, he's still like Brady until proven otherwise. Like, as long as he's in his prime, the, now we'll see how he returns. Yeah, I just think right now, I don't think the. dynasty is necessarily over. Now, maybe Brady took 10 years between Super Bowl wins. So this may take maybe two years they're not close to the, getting to the Super Bowl,

but I think it's still assuming Mahomes is still Mahomes, it can come right back and they can start a new dynasty with a new group. So I got Kansas City. Buffalo and Baltimore, I don't think dynasties are on the board. I think maybe they can get a Super Bowl with their great quarterbacks, but not dynasty. but I do, I think Chicago with Caleb is a team I would put it on there. And here's the other one, and this is, according to your logic, Nick.

After the Chiefs, the team would be Philadelphia. Just because if they win one, like if they win it next year and you got three in what, six years would that be, or three and five years, or even if they went in two years. Hold on. I mean, well, two wins, been to three and five years. You know what I mean? Like, they're still young, they're still heavily talented.

I do think Siriani starts on the hot seat, but. Hotsey in the middle of a dynasty. No, I know, but don't we all, I mean, it seems like he is. Are you discounting Seattle? Because Seattle's argument to be very similar to Philly. I am, I am right now. I don't, I don't think dynasty's on the board for them. I mean, many dynasty maybe, which is two.

Nick, you got a, what do I have right there? No dynasty for a while. Yeah, no dynasty for a while. Like, and I say this? You think KC's done as far as dynasty? I think they're done for now. Okay. In terms of what you guys have said, I agree.

I agree with what you're saying. But I say no dynasty for a while because you made a point. You said like the New England Patriots don't have a decided advantage within their division. I think the argument can be made that Seattle, even after having won it, might not have a deciding. They might not have a deciding advantage. within their division because it was so close with the Rams. You lose your coordinator.

That's a huge loss. And there's so many teams that have really good defenses that if they can just get the quarterback play, Houston, obviously. Minnesota, but we talk about the Chargers, but the Chargers feel like they have a team. Denver. Like there's so much parity right now. and we just witnessed this is no knock on Sam Darnold

because he played great all season long and he played great when they needed them to but you don't need a Josh Allen you don't have to have a Patrick Mahomes if you have these other things and I think there's a lot of teams that are so close to that it's going to be very hard for any team to just re-up and retool.

I'm going to make a Patriots argument, but I will also give Seattle their flowers and a little bit of the chiefs as well, and a little bit of whoever you think is a great GM. Maybe it's a Howie Roseman thing. Dusty, you blow up snaps by rookies. So this is the idea that we did have a very easy schedule. We also had a very young team. Browns, Jets, Titans, Patriots, Saints. Only one of those teams was in the Super Bowl. A lot of those teams just combined or might not get to 14. wins. I didn't do the math. No, every single one of those teams finished last in their division. So, except for the Pats, obviously. So I think that, I mean, I was like, oh, Will Campbell and

Jared, like, yeah, they were in high school a few years ago. So they're going to struggle a little bit in the biggest game. So the reason I put that in is, like, they played great, but we also drafted great. And we look at some of the articles coming out of Seattle. And like, John Schneider, like, you know what, I'm going to move on from D.K. Metcalfe and get the draft capital that got Emin Worry, move on from Gino, who was doing great, move on from Pete Carroll, switch it up, and all of a sudden, we won the Super

Bowl. So I guess the question is, is this a coach question? Is it a quarterback question, or is this actually, like, which is not as fun, a GM question? No, it's kind of all of the above. I think one of the weaknesses of your team, honestly, is your GM. I don't think Elliot Wolf is on

par with some of these other guys, and I don't think he's had the drafts that are on par. And one of those rookies that took a ton of snaps, I think they might look back on and say, fine player, but not the type of guy we wanted with the fourth overall pick. And so, I know, you were in, but again, but being in the Super Bowl doesn't, to me, I mean, every single player on your team did their job as well as they could have done and was the right pick and the right player.

You were there. But here is just, if we could quick, just give us an extra, the 45 seconds, put up my quote board. because the other shake, the shaky concern, the post playoffs added small concern for New England

is the one spot where there was no concern going into the playoffs and this is not my words is why I found this from the ringer Dante Lee. May has to get better too. The postseason run was abysmal for him.

He ended the postseason in 21 sacks and eight turnovers, both the most by any quarterback in any postseason last 24. years. And with 102 sacks taken over his full 33-game career, we're looking at a quarterback whose mix of poor habits and incredible talent makes the future a toss-up. Now, I think it's insane. Say it again. I think it's an insane take. Well, I think toss-up is too harsh. I wouldn't call it a toss-up. But I would say this postseason

has moved him for me from the Sure Thing category, from Sure Thing to, with that argument, he would be better off losing in the second round to the losing in the first round. Playing great and losing it. You wouldn't see any of the sacks. So because he won games

and did what he needed to do to win games, all of a sudden he's got the most facts. So that's where, KW, that's where I disagree with your analysis of it. I did not view the Patriots run to the Super Bowl, one of Drake May playing like Darnold did in the Super Bowl. I'm just doing

what it takes to win, avoiding mistakes. I thought, and reasonable people can disagree, I thought Drake objectively played poorly in each game. And so if you're saying, would I feel better if he had played awesome and lost a duel in round one, I might. Literally

the hardest defensive path any quarterback has ever faced. Literally the hardest of any quarterback ever. The Great American Race Returns Back to Back Champion. William Byron, my guy called it. Looking for a historic three-peat or maybe the three-peats like a chief thing.

It doesn't get bigger than this. The 68th running of the Daytona 500. It's going to be Sunday at 2.30 Eastern. Free race starts at 1230. That's only on Fox and tomorrow. Right after first things first, we're getting on a plane and drive. We're not driving. We're actually going to fly.

It would be sick if we drove though. Drove today. I've driven from Syracuse New York, Daytona, Florida. How fast? I don't remember. I did it though. Thursday. And Friday, we will be there.

Some great guests coming up. It's going to be excellent. So check that out. Hopefully we get some cool jackets. Again, I want the M-N-M jacket. But right now, great news. Pitchers and catchers report this week for the world champion. Dodgers also this week, Tops celebrates their 75th anniversary, 2026 Tops Series 1 baseball

cards releases tomorrow. And today, we are counting down. They've been counting down for weeks, top 75 cards. This is the reveal, brew, of the top 10. This is awesome. Cards. Ever, ever. Of all time.

Of all time. All baseball collection. That's incredible. Coming in a number 10. Brew, do you want to kick us off? Number 10. Show Hey, O'Ton. 2018 Topps Update.

The boat. That's his rookie year. And I think it's great because going forward, people are going to probably forget a lot of casual fans that he played for Anaheim, Because he's winning. I mean, really, he's winning World Series, right? With the Dodgers and all of that. That's right.

Had the greatest game ever with the Dodgers. Most of his MVP's. I think he won two with Anaheimai maybe, but still, he's got four now. And so that's a great card. And is there any debate now? He's the boat, right? No, there is debate. There is a pretty significant debate.

Really? But there is debate. You know what I would like the goal of this segment is not only to count down the top 10 card, but to get you invested in a little. baseball card action bro. Brew do an investment. You do have a lot of investments out there, bro. Yeah, I'm down.

Card number nine. Guess what? I picked this one out because when I was a child, when I was a child, I went to, I think we went to a flea market and then we went to a baseball card. And I've wanted this card forever. This is kind of like a mandatory card. 1980. Ricky Henderson, I get it.

You don't use these anymore. These screw down your site. It's a great card. It's a beautiful card. So this was, you get into that junk wax era of like 80s when you like, there was just a lot of production. Yeah. This was like from the 70s to the 80s, like a perfect card from Ricky Henderson. Looking at that type of card case, yeah, gives me a little PTSD.

Why? Well, I at one point in college, I had to unscrew all those and try to sell those cards that I had saved up. And my child didn't pay gambling nets. Kobe Bryant rookie card, great shack card. That's not necessarily what? Some of them are worth money. You might have just had the wrong cards. No, they were all worth money, but I owed people money,

and so I had to say what was I going to do? You know what? Unscruing those cases is a tragic moment. What type of person was selling the that didn't want them in the case? That's a bad sign. I want them out of the cases. Number eight. 95

Tops. Roberto Clemente, this is his rookie card. Also, a lot of early 50s cards, horizontal cards. So it's a great card from Robert Klemente. And it's the only,

it's his only PSA 10-graded card. And he obviously is one of the most legendary players with one of the most legendary careers and also to have his 3,000th hit in his final game. I report tragically dying

while on an aid mission. Yep. an all-time Pittsburgh and baseball legend. Yeah, it's amazing. There's one PSA graded 10 in the whole world. Correct. I'm on the lookout for another one, though. Oh, okay, yeah.

If I come across one. I hope you find it. I'm looking for it. Number seven, 1986 Topsbury Bonds. This is a Tops traded, bro. When I was, it would come in a little box. And when I was growing up, the marquee card in the 86 tops rated, Bo Jackson, sure.

Jose Konseco rookie card was a classic card, similar pose. But turns out Barry Bonds better than Jose Canseco in the long run. And maybe the boat. Maybe the boat. He has an argument for the boat himself. And he was a video game. And this is to your point, Brew, kind of about Otani. A lot of people, young people watching right now are like Barry Bonds played for the pirates.

No, for real. And Barry was thin back then. Oh, yeah. That's what he said too. Yeah. Right. Right. Card number six.

I got a story about this card too. So 1968 shared card or Nolan Ryan's rookie with Jerry Coosman. Well, and that's Nolan Ryan's only rookie card. Yes. He didn't have a solo. He didn't have a great rookie year. Cousman did.

Now, obviously, Cusman didn't turn out to be a great player. Ryan turned out to be legendary. But yeah, this is an interesting card. Tricky if you're, you know, Jerry Cousman's, like, distant cousin and you want to start collecting his cards. turns out to be an expensive. Yeah. You read about that.

Number five, 2024. This is modern card. Tops Chrome Update Series baseball. Paul Skeens, rookie debut patch. This is more modern cards. Patches start coming. Autographs start coming. This is one of one.

Yeah. I mean, it's got a patch from, you know, his first game ever. And it's signed, like you said, one of one. And that speaks to how it's in the top five of the, of the greatest cards because what you're about to see from the top four KW, you and I,

I mean, Brew was alive with these guys, cards came out. He's an excellent, but not you and me. Number four, 1952 tops. Wow. All-time card, Jackie Robinson. Now, this is, believe it or not,

his official rookie card. Yes. Even though it was released five years after his rookie year, of course, in 1947. But just a tremendous card. know it's a fact simile signature like a lot of nowadays a friend that we both know that I used to work with has this card autographed and it's he showed it to me and i almost almost fainted

autograph from jacky robinson yeah well he didn't sign yeah autographed jackie jacky not the fact no it's a autograph jacky robertson all right top three third number three In 1954, rookie card, Hank Aaron from the Milwaukee Braves, just another classic card. And that is his rookie year, the year he did, you know, 1954 is when he entered the league, obviously went on to become break, I mean, the biggest record in America at that time, A Bruce Home Run record, and obviously great for race relations as well.

So tremendous card. Only two PSA 10s in the world of this card. How much of those? And, I mean, they think over a million bucks. Hank Aaron, great card to collect because he played for so long. Yeah. You can sort of get some of the later cards. It's fun to go back.

See how far you can go back. Number two, 1952 Tops, Willie Mays. I believe he's the greatest baseball player of all time. I, of every baseball card that's ever existed, this would be, with respect to our friends at Tops, this wouldn't be my number two draft pick. This would be my number one draft pick to have. I understand that there's, you know, there's famous cards, the Onus Wagner stamp card. There's the one that's about to come in number one.

But I think Willie Maids is the greatest player of all time. And this is as great of a card as ever existed in sports collective. Number one, this is the classic 1952 Mickey Mantle. This card is displayed in the Hall of Fame. You just people just go look at it. It's just also just a visually beautiful card. It's got like a nice green hue. It's funny. I talked to one of my friends about this.

Like this card almost. This card almost looks like a painting, like a piece of art, versus just a regular card. It also means, KW. There's somebody watching right now who's 80, who when they were five or six years old, went down to the soda shop and for a nickel bought a tops pack and had a 52 mantle and a 52 maze and didn't know.

They were like sitting on Berkshire Hathaway stock. At the same time, I'm so old when I was buying cards, they cost 50 cents. packs are more than 50 cents. Yeah, I mean, but this is unbelievable. Top 10 baseball cards from Topps. Series comes out. Series 1, 2026 comes out tomorrow.

Thank you to Tops. If you have any of these cards kicking around in your attic, I'll buy them. Yeah, call Nick Ryder, call Kevin Wilds. More first things first. Live from New York, it's the show that's celebrating. Yeah, Seahawks, you know, today. First things first overtime.

Today, Patriots, they lost the Super Bowl. Also, losing in Danny's top 10. It's top 10 Tuesday. I'm nervous. They might fall out. We don't have any of his schedule anymore. Nobody's thinking. Meanwhile, Kubiak and Mendoza.

Very interesting. It's a chance. This team goes from worst to first. No. You liked them this year. I did. And they got better. Yeah, but the divisions,

it turns out I was wrong about Denver. And finally, are Genty still? Are the Genties stood airs? Are the Seahawks built to repeat? That's the discussion today on first things for overtime alongside Chris Bussarre. I'm Kevin Wiles, Nick Wright, Danny Parkins. Parkins. Wiles.

I just feel like you should have had more of a victory lap for your Seahawks prediction. You nailed it all year. Oh, thank you. I thought yesterday's victory lap was fine and people seemed to really enjoy my gifts to you. That being said, and I haven't even looked at it yet. I described Top Ten Tuesday as a Jackson Pollock painting. An absolute mess that I think people are going to find interesting regardless, but I'm nervous about it.

Yeah, no, there's been a lot of talk in the office today. I really tilted Danny. You were just straight up being about it. Where all the producers work, and I work because I'm a man of the people. I'm like, you guys in your private offices. And I just dressed him down about Top Ten Tuesday. And then he stood in the doorway stunned, stunned while all the fruits were like, oh. They were not going.

Oh. They were. No, they were. They were. Who was doing that? What? Ian was going. Oh.

No. He got you. You're going to take that? You're going to happen? He's not going on a space. He's not. He's a nice guy. I know.

I was just stunned. I was just. I was stunned. Yeah. It was crazy. terrible mounting today, by the dust has settled on the Super Bowl. The Patriots did not win.

Will Campbell is not moving to tight end, or according to Mike Brable. Tight end? Yeah. No one was going to move him to tight end. He was flippantly dismissing everybody. He's not moving a guard, not moving his center. He needs to move.

He doesn't need to move. He doesn't need to move. He tore a ligament in his knee. We knew that. Okay. That was it. Yeah, he had to set. Let's talk to Jeff Schwartz.

We're going to cancel this segment. We're going to stop on Zoom. Let's do it. I cancel in top 10 Tuesday. All right. So here's an interesting quote panel from Chad Graff on the Athletic. The Patriots had grown stale before the Super Bowl. Final few years under the legendary coach Belchuk were exhausting.

The lone season with Gerard Mayo in charge was a mess. Probably true. Vrable looked around. This first day acknowledged the task ahead in the process. Rable didn't just return the Patriots to prominence. He made the team fun again. You know what? What are sports for

if not to have fun? We did have fun. It was a blast. It was a blast. Was it fun on Sunday? Honestly, I'm at the age where I think just feeling is fun.

That's like you've had an experience. Yeah, just going to like a sad movie and like that moved me one way or the other. All right, how should we remember this Patriots team? Fun, Danny? Losers. I get why Patriots fans would find the fun. I think I will remember them

as one of the worst Super Bowl participants of my lifetime. What? Super Bowl participants. Yeah, as one of the worst conference champions. Yeah, like, it was just, I told you all year. They, ahead of schedule, I think the best Patriots team is still to come. They have a ton of cap space. I think there's a good chance that they've got a better roster next year, even if they have a worst team.

And when you combine the easy path, so yes, the schedule, and how lopsided it was in the Super Bowl, I started trying to put it into historical context, and they're on this list. It's just them and the 94 Chargers who got blown out to score fewer than 20 points per game in the lead-up to a Super Bowl and then get blown out by 16 or more,

them and the Chargers. And then in terms of teams that made it to the Super Bowl with easy strength of schedules, they had the easiest path ever for a team to make it, and they had one of the worst blowouts in a Super Bowl history. And then when you add into the fact that they also in the supposed second toughest game, the conference championship, got to play a backup quarterback, I do think it's one of the worst Super Bowl participants ever.

I don't think that's disrespectful. I think that's belied by history. It's definitely disrespectful. I mean, what does that say about your boy, Justin Herbert? I mean, they had to go through Justin Herbert. So he's garbage? Do we not? Do we not make this about Justin Herbert? I was just saying.

Like, they had to go through Justin Herbert. I was on the ropes and you were just like the best boxing. You could. I mean, seriously, they had to go through Justin Herbert. You said it earlier. Maybe it was off the air. Three, they had a legendary path as far as the defenses they faced. Literally the hardest ever.

Literally the hardest ever. And they went through it. And you've been so high on the bills, they beat the bills. They went into Buffalo and beat your bills. So I'm just, I don't have all the teams listed in my mind. I know getting beat by 16 is not nearly even close to one of the worst Super Bowl defeats. We've seen teams beating, you know, give up 50-something points. You know, lose by 30-something, 40-something.

Like I, like I said, I don't have all the teams listed in my head. I just think that is a disrespectful way. I think this was a great year for them. I mean, they are ahead of schedule. Well, yeah, it was a great year for them. They are ahead of schedule. Drake May didn't play, obviously, great in the playoffs, but I think this is great learning experience for him.

I think I will remember them, I guess, mainly as one of the, I think it was a great turnaround. From 4 and 13 to get to the Super Bowl in a conference with Patrick Mahomes, Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen, and Joe Burrow in their primes. Great turnaround. great coaching job by Vrabel and the beginning of something special with Drake May. So I happen to think that what you said Brew

and what you said, Danny, are not necessarily contradictory. I think everything you said could be true, Brew, about the turnaround, about the great steps, all of it, and if we were to stack up the 50 Super Bowl participants this decade and the 25, you know, this century, this century, pardon me. And we were to stack up the power rank, the 25 losers, that they would be closer to 25 than to one. I think that's true. But my answer is probably going to make Wilds matter than Danny, so I want Wilds to be able to go first.

No, I want you to go then. I'm the host of the show. The odds are we won't. Oh, remember this team? Yeah. Oh. Like tell me, guys, your favorite 98 Falcons story that doesn't involve a cool dance. said, tell me, tell me, tell me, you know, the way you, when I was looking at the list, like, man, you guys remember the 76 Vikings?

All right. I mean, they were just the teams on Davis list. Or the first graphic. No, like we got a lot of Natron refried means memories other than Chris Berman nicknames for the 94 Chargers. If they don't get back, they will not, they will not. not be memorable. And so that's why I said I thought it'd make you matter. But I also think most Super Bowl, if you are a one-off Super Bowl loser, you're not memorable.

Here's the caveat. If Drake May goes on to become great, we don't necessarily think of the Marino's that team in the Super Bowl. But we always talk about, oh, Marino got to the Super Bowl second year. Joe Burrow, we're still saying, got to the Super Bowl. So I get it. We don't think of the team, but if that quarterback's great, you do remember that he got them. You remember that he got there, but you don't. I think Burroughs example is a great one.

It's only been five years. How many guys from that Chargers team that are not currently on it, meaning other than Burrow Jason Higgins, like who was the best defensive player on that Chargers team? Who was the starting running back? It all becomes a little fuzzy if they're not good. You know what I mean? And so I'm not guaranteeing by any means. They're going to be a one-off Super Bowl loser.

And the teams on Danny's list that we do remember that is 71 dolphins you might not remember. Well, you sure remember the next year. They were undefeated and they won the Super Bowl. You know what I mean? The 91 bills were on there. In my head, I have to reverse engineer. What year did they play? Who would they play in that Super Bowl?

What I know is though that team went to. to a bunch of Super Bowls in a row. But the Super Bowl losers that we remember are either great teams that got upset, the 01 Rams, the 07 pads, or teams that had won before and then lost. Like the Seahawks to you guys, the Chiefs, I think their Super Bowl losses are memorable. They got beat down, but also because they had won before like that. I just don't know that it'll be that memorable. I think that's fair.

I think, Danny, I'm surprised that you put so much sort of weight on a Super Bowl performance. Because you were saying earlier, like, Super Bowls are weird. They're just weird games, and the Patriots were great all year, and they were great against, in the playoff run, I never, they played great defenses, and I never thought this game is over in six minutes like this one. And in recent memory, in Lesterner, Like, Jalen Hertz lost a Super Bowl and played pretty well.

Brock Purdy lost a Super Bowl and played pretty well. Other than that, guys who have lost recent Super Bowls, it ends up getting ugly. Patrick Moehm said the two losses in the Super Bowls were ugly. They weren't close. They were ugly games. So I'm looking at that glass-out-full of like, yeah, it's ugly, but, like, I've seen great players have ugly games in Super Bowls. No doubt. I just think that we were-

For the same reason. Right. Like our offensive line is cooked. done. Yeah, and that's definitely what unraveled that game. But I think all of those things can be true. Like, fun season, like the writer had. It was a tough

path, but we don't tend to remember, certainly like five years from now, we're going to remember the path of the defenses that the Patriots played in the Wildcard round and the divisional round. I'll remember the Wildcard round. Seafood Tower. But at the end of the day,

it was like, unless they get back or unless Drake may becomes all time, which he might. I think Drake May is going to be awesome. This team is just not going to stack up well to history, because of the path of the whole season and because of the blowout in the Super Bowl. I also think that, and we will just have to see how it plays out and what the general opinion is outside of this show and other places, I think you right now are out of step with the general public in how much credit Drake May deserves for

the Patriots getting to the Super Bowl once the playoffs started. What do you mean? So I think he played bad in the play? I think most people feel like the Patriots got their seeding, got the two seed because of Drake May, and then got to the Super Bowl despite Drake May's play in the playoffs. Again, those

getting the path or whatever it is, And so I think that the other quarterbacks who have been blown out in Super Bowls typically had had awesome games to get them to the Super Bowl. And that mitigates some of the, you know, some of the hit you take for getting blown out in the Super Bowl. And Drake didn't get that. Like if Drake had Darnold's NFC championship game in any of the games, round two again, you know, any of the games. You know, any of the games. If people like Trevor did in Denver, which I was expecting, like, that would have been great.

Trevor. Trevor Lawrence. Oh, Trevor in the regular season. I think it was like eight. Yeah. Like in 18 games in Denver, one guy lit them up. Yeah. I thought Drake was going to be the second.

Yeah. At the same time, I think the Texans defense was the best defense in the league. Nobody seems to believe me, but I'm a Dimeco Ryan's guy, I guess. Did throw three touchdowns on them. All right. Oh, you were in for. A treat. You thought Mahomes Mountain was controversial at 4 o'clock. Wait, do you see this? Wow. The Jackson Pollock of segments. It's a mess, but it sure is interesting.

Top 10 Tuesday. With friends like these. That's a compliment. Famous artist. Bruce Wow was super genuine. Sarkasm. Oh, listen, after what I said about the Patriots, you might be surprised coming in at number 10. Wow. The New England Patriots. I'm actually mad about this. Get us out of there. Again, top five cap space, not top five quarterback yet, but potential top five quarterback. Everyone seems to love their coach. I think their roster will be better, even if their record is worse.

We know the schedule gets much tougher next year. Can't get easier, am I right? It may possible get easier. But coming in at number nine, it wouldn't be a top 10 list without the Los Angeles Chargers. Most important position on offense other than quarterback. Obviously left tackle. I think a lot of people would say left tackle. How did the charge?

Chargers get at both tackle spots this year compared to last year. They're going to get Rashon Slater and Joe Walt back. This year they got six combined starts from the two of those. And their tackle positions allowed 166 pressures in 23 sacks just off those two guys. You get those two guys back plus Mike McDaniel plus the fourth most cap space in the NFL. Chargers, dangerous team to be honest with you. Yeah, dangerous team for next year. Coming in at number eight, the Philadelphia Eagles.

Can the offense be worse? I don't think so given all of the talent. losing Kevin Petulow will be a huge addition, even if they end up losing AJ Brown. I happen to think AJ Brown will be back. They're also the second winningest team in the NFL since Nick Siriani took over. So even with all of the noise, they just win football games. Coming in at number seven, my Detroit Lions, I just can't quit them. Injuries to the interior of the offensive line, they lost Ben Johnson, they lost both

coordinators, they changed play callers in the middle of the year, and they were still a top five offense. Their defense collapsed down the stretch two years in a row. throw some resources of the defensive side of the ball, have that sustain a little bit. Their offense should be able to carry them. I think they are still one of the best teams in the league. Coming in number six, though, the team that should be the favorites in the NFC North, though, the odds makers say they're the third best team.

My Chicago Bears, why can't the Chicago Bears be the best offense in football next season? Here's the core of their offense. They don't complete enough passes? Five percentage. Got a lot of young players who are really talented, who all are nowhere near their plus they return all five starters on their offensive line. Next year, the Bears offense was, got better every month over the course of the season. Should be excellent next year.

Coming in number five, Bruce Ravens. The talent is there. Jesse Minter with the Chargers always had them outperforming their talent level. Top three defense by yards, points overall in the aggregate. The last two years, he brings that talent to Baltimore. They were two and five in one score games this year. That should improve Baltimore plays to its talent level next season. Coming in at number four, this might surprise some people.

The San Francisco 49ers, list of players on the Niners who missed five or more games. Nick Bosa, Brock Purdy, Fred Warner, Ricky Pearsall, George Kittle, and Mikel Williams, their first round pick. All missed five or more games. Still won 12 games and a playoff game this year. But they were in the NFC West, missed out on the one seed at the very end. Coming in to number three, the Buffalo Bills. In terms of a team that is just going to be good since 2020,

they're the most consistent team in football. Playoffs, they come up short, no question about it, but they have the best record since 2020. They have a playoff win every year since 2020. Only team in the league is saying that. And they've been a top 10 offense every year since 2020. They are the third best team in the NFL. Coming in number two, Matt Stafford goes back.

They get the band back together. The Los Angeles Rams pretty self-explanatory with what they were able do. They also have two first round picks this year, the Atlanta Falcons pick and their own. They had six losses by 21 points this year, the smallest deficit for a team with six losses, second smallest in NFL history. And then number one, the champs, the Seattle Seahawks, as wilds like to say, I should have taken more of a victory lap on them. In terms of a team that wins the Super Bowl, normally there's a lot of turnover. This is the entire list of unrestricted free agents for them. Guys who played at least 40 snaps in the Super Bowl.

A running back, a nice player in Rashid, we'll see if they can keep him, and then a couple of guys in the secondary, but not their best secondary pieces. And then obviously Clint Kubiak. So when you factor in also there, I think, 10th in salary cap space, they should be able to retain any of the guys that they want to. Remarkably consistent team. And Brew, I assume, perfect top 10. No, I wouldn't go per. I'm not even jumping on you for the, I just think you made an honest mistake. You forgot the Packers. Oh, no, I mean, can't have everybody in the top 10. The pack, like, Micah Parsons, I think, will be back next year, right? Should be back, yeah. Yeah, he should be back. They were rolling when they had Micah. Jordan Love, all of that, those questions we had about, oh, is he just going to make us bad decision and throw the ball away?

He did none of that, for the most part, this entire season was great in their playoff loss. They were still, with all their playoff experience, the youngest team in the NFL. Packers got to be on there. I put them ahead of the Patriots. I'd put them ahead of the Eagles. And, I mean, their division is going to be jam-packed again. You know, I think the Lions will be better. But the Bears, I think they're all going to be in there,

but I think the Packers got to be. They lost to the Bears two or three times this year, including in the playoffs. Yeah, I don't know. Did Mikea Parson's playing the playoffs? No. And the other game they lost. Was there any plays that Micah Parsons may have affected? I can't think of a single one.

I can't think of a single one. You got it. You just made, you absent mind. You just slipped your mind. Honest mistake. Yeah, you just slipped your mind. Packers got to be it. I'm sure you're.

It's super concepted way. There's no explanation. Let's be honest. All right, Nick, go ahead. One and two, you did well. Oh, thanks. But it's a top ten list. There's at least a justification for the bills at three,

even though they lost in round two. They fired their coach. and we think they have huge holes at skill position. Fine. I can accept it. You gave a full list of how unlucky it seems like the Niners got with injuries. I don't believe that there's a substation that's causing all the injuries. Okay.

Do you, do you, well, it's not just everyone on the internet. The GM said he's going to look into the data on it. There's star running back seems to believe it. I don't know if that's the case. Still. Those people are on the internet. Here's what I would say. the reason, let's assume that that electrical substation has nothing to do with it, which I think it probably has nothing to do with it.

You know the reason why people are trying to find wacky reasons to explain the injuries? Because every year the Niners are the most injured team in football. So the idea that next year, them being healthy would be the aberration. What they dealt with this year is kind of par for the course. It's what they dealt with the year before and two years before that. I have no idea why the Ravens are in your top five. None whatsoever. And I'm not even going to jump on you for your lack of faith in your own Chicago Bears,

who right now you have as the fourth best team in their own conference. I have to be able to move them up when they trade for Max Rosberg. Okay. But most notably, you really don't think that Kansas City Chiefs are a top 10 team. You gave one of these teams, one of these teams, I don't even remember which is the teams. You were like they were two and five in one score games. The race.

Chiefs were one and nine in one score games. Right. That you really don't think the Chiefs are going to be one of the 10 best teams in football next year. Well, they have the least amount of cap space of any team in the NFL. I know they can restructure Mahomes' deal and Chris Jones's deal. We'll see what happens with Travis Kelsey. Chris Jones is getting older. We'll see which of their secondary players.

We are all getting older. That's true. But I mean, other than. running back and pass catcher and pass rush, they're a great team. Do you? And with a quarterback who's injured. So you, so I'm just, okay. And the worst cap is position.

So you really, so I'm asking you right now. It's a lot of holes to fix with the number nine. You really don't think the chiefs are a top 10 team. Right now, no. And your justification, if I'm right, just follow me here. Pass rush, pass catcher. Is purely the strength of the quarterback. Because we know nothing about the coach.

You can't. Well, hold on. Danny wishes running was the illegal. You don't think the bills have better receivers than the Chiefs. They don't, by any metric, have better pass rushers than the Chiefs. So Josh Allen has earned the benefit of the doubt that just his power alone, they're a top three team. Patrick Mahomes and Andy Reid, not a top 10 team. I find it interesting.

I also think you actually think they're a top three. 10 team and they're going to quickly be in your top 10. Let's see how they handle the off season, but also there is one more piece of data that I have about why my top 10 might be a little bit better than yours. If people could just throw it up there. Why? How did it was the accounting on this? Oh, yeah, that's right. I picked more winners this year.

Yeah. I just picked more winners than you over the course of the season. That's that. That's not again. Well, we're not going to have picks this week. I just wanted a final accounting after the Super Bowl. Regular. But this is, are you kind of.

This was not going to appear. Well, we're not doing picks anymore. So I didn't know when to work it in. And the answer, and the answer, just so you know when to work it in would have been on a group text rather than. Just quickly, Danny, to break. I know just as a bonus, as a bonus to the bonus. Yeah. Just be honest.

Yeah. Are the Chiefs 11th? They're in that. It's wild. Rich tapestry. I don't think they're 11th. I mean, the Jaguars got left off. That was tough.

The Texans. You let the Broncos off. I mean, to be honest, it's an awful. To be honest, it's an awful list. But I was jumping on the chiefs piece of it. I would love you to do the exercise and not to be like, oh, I'm just, it's the committee. I'm just, wow. Disrespecting the committee.

Wow. Take some accountability. The best segment of all of sports TV. This guy's unbelievable. This guy's unbelievable. It's not left the right. It's a rich town. I'm just saying.

It's a committee. Take some accountability. You got to take us to break. Yeah. This is mortifiable. Coming up next, Raiders talk. Hobbs joins the show. Talk about Nick's favorite team.

Welcome back to the OAT. We got Greg Jennings and Willie Cologne hanging out. Right there is the Raiders head coach, Clint Kubiak. Do you think having to go to Vegas right away ruined his Super Bowl celebration? Like he couldn't go out and party as hard because he had to perform at his new job the next day. The race tomorrow. Yeah, he's got to go back for the parade. It's confusing.

Well, he's introduced today. He's asked about his new home and of course their expected number one pick Fernando Mendoza. Take a listen to the Raiders and the coach. The resources that the Raiders have, this building, you know, obviously having cap space, you know, having the first pick. Those are all, those all go into the decision. And as far as, you know, who the first pick is going to be, you know, we got a lot of, we got a lot of tape to watch before we determine who that's going to be. The resources are here. We just got to go put it all together. Willie, what do you look at as the ceiling for the Raiders this year with the first time head coach and the number one pick of QB? First of all, any time a head coach highlights the building instead of the players, that's the reason to be. The facilities are beautiful.

So that's reason to be concerned. Listen, this team was 3 and 14 last year, man, and now you have an opportunity to get a head coach who had a third rank offense, won a Super Bowl. So he's going to add some stability in culture, but you can't do it without. a company quarterback. I know they have Mendoza, but he's still going to need time to grow. I know they have some pillars on the offensive side. Some of my Brock Bowers, the Gentie, but nevertheless, man, they have a lot of holes. This is going to take time. This is going to be a slow build. Hopefully they give him that. I know that he has a long runway because of his contract. But I can see this team on the high side.

I can see this being a six and eight team. And that's just me being positive. Six to eight wins, you mean? Six wins, eight losses, yes. Well, that would only be 14 games. Yeah, I got you. Say six and 11. I got you. I got exposed again for my bad man. I just wanted to be, I didn't know if my bad, I didn't apologize. He never let me live. I was sticking for facts about here. I mean, he tried to give you an out six to eight wins.

I don't know. My kids always doing the six, seven things. It's all good. You were great. Go ahead, Greg. So, like, the ceiling is interesting. I don't even want to put a win total on it. I would either. I'm just going to say, they're probably going to still finish last

in the division. Clint's my guy. I really, I mean, we have a relationship dating back to my time in Minnesota. But when I listen to this entire press conference, I love what he said. He was very authentic. He was very honest about his approach, about what he doesn't know, what he possibly can do. He was asked a question about being a play caller and a head coach. And how does he envision that working out?

And he said, you know, I've never called a single game by myself. I've always used my coaching staff as a collaborative effort. And in terms of being a head coach, we're going to find out and how that works. So when you have someone who's going to be transparent and honest, like also understanding he has work to do, he recognized that, he alluded to that. that division is tough yeah that division is tough well also like this this formula is tough it it represents a really high

upside because if kubiak is like McDonald or ben jonson or leon or leon korek you know you can make a huge difference and if mendoza is a transformative talent like that obviously can make a difference but we were looking it up before the show when a first time head coach takes over a team with the number one overall pick The team with the number one overall pick, obviously the worst team in football year before.

They're almost always bad. The only time we ever could find one that had a winning season was Chuck Pagano, first time head coach, and Andrew Luck for the 2011 Colts. But that was such an outlier because Peyton Manning got hurt. Like that team that they won 11 games with, it had Frini and Mathis and Reggie Wayne and T.Y. Hilton. That was Peyton Manning's team. He just happened to get it.

Most of the time, it's like King's Brinian. Barry and Kyler, six wins. Ron Rivera and Cam Newton, six wins. So my guess is that they'll be exciting, they will show flashes of a ceiling, but they're not

going to be good. Because they have such little talent right now and both of these guys are going to be into the biggest jobs of their lives by far. Yeah, it doesn't help that supposedly Matt Crosby once out. That's by speculation, but nevertheless, man, they need a lot. I'm worried about bringing a young

quarterback into the team with no O-line protection, right? It doesn't make sense. They don't have to build this roster up, especially if they want to protect them for the future. All right, let's go to Pittsburgh. No better experts than these two guys to talk about this story. There's no official update on Aaron Rogers' future. But Tom Pelliserro of NFL Network is reporting that Rogers is seriously considering a return to Pittsburgh. Pelliserro says that Rogers has not yet informed the Steelers whether he will return for

his 22nd NFL season, but my understanding is the odds are increasing. I am told Rogers has spoken several times with new Steelers coach Mike McCarthy, who of course helped Rogers develop into a four-time MVP and Super Bowl winner in Green Bay. So Willie, obviously, you were a former Steeler. Greg, you caught passes from Rogers and played for Mike McCarthy. What do you see, Willie, we'll start with you, as the ceiling for this duo in Pittsburgh if it in fact happens? Well, it could be a late career masterpiece or expensive deja vu. That's just the bottom line.

Listen, it comes down to Aaron Rogers is not taking those hits no more. He's not sitting in the pocket taking those big shots. So they're going to have to get a run game that can really work for him. Also, final receiver number two outside of D.K. Metcalfe. I mean, they have a lot of little pieces that can elevate the offense, but they don't have enough guys that can really impact the office. Like Mount Washington was one of the outside of Gamewell was another impact play for him. But he's not come playoff time.

He's not the guy you want to lean on, right? So I just think they, hopefully the meeting of the minds, hopefully they can elevate themselves as far as a, you know, a game plan situation. But I think Aaron Rogers right now, it's all about what he wants to come back for. I just don't know what he was the reason for him to coming back. So to take a little deeper look into what Aaron Rogers was, and I don't want to just make this a bad thing. But the reality of it is, is there are a lot of career lows, even with them technically playing better based on what we saw his last outing with the Jets. And if we take a look at these numbers, I can't. I can't say that I expect this team to do anything other than possibly what we saw this year,

have a chance to make the playoffs, maybe not, maybe get in, be right there. But when you look within this division, I mean, those numbers were really good for Aaron Rogers. And yet for his career, they're all the fewest. Which makes sense for a 41 year old quarterback. But also, but also, which also. also suggests he needs so much more help than what is currently on that roster. To your point, a number two, a running game, offensive line protection, even more than

what it is defensively, you got to continue to bring back some of those guys and then be able to create those turnovers, get the ball back in his hands. Can he provide you with his skill set, his smarts, and execute in late game situations? Absolutely. but to rely on heroics from Aaron Rogers to elevate everybody around him that's not what you're going to be getting

I still think that Steelers fans shouldn't be rooting for this I think that I know you hate it I know we're going to disagree on it and then he'll announce that he's coming back but if McCarthy and Rogers are there they're going to be good they're going to be a competitive

team with a very low ceiling I just I don't know and it's such since it's not a long term thing and there's no path to it. Rogers is not a long term thing. Yeah, and we'll see how long. McCarthy's going to be there for.

Sure, he'll be there for a few. But like it delay, I would think if you want Mike McCarthy to develop the next great quarterback of the Steelers, you'd want that prospect to be as good of a prospect as possible. And in order to get that prospect, you need to have a higher pick in the draft. Yeah, but I think when we have been on here, he kind of told you the Steelers sauce, if you will, to build a team up and then have a young guy be ready to go. I think it makes sense when you hire Martin McCarthy, when he went. of his superpower was develop a young quarterback.

They still have some things in the officer's side. They can build up. So when Will Howard is ready to go, he's stepping into a Porsche. And I just, I think that you should try to shoot for a better talent than Will Howard. But this, this duo will win games. And then losing the playoffs. Nine, 10, 11 wins. You just want to shout at the table.

I mean, not the best team wins the Super Bowl, right? It's the most opportunistic. Well, that has been the tried and true thing for the Steelers for a while. and it hasn't worked out so well. We just saw a team, though, make it to the Super Bowl with a 23-year-old quarterback and an easy path to get there. Their chances of making it back, already talking about it in New England. We discuss on the O2.

All right, welcome back to first things first. Let's talk about the runner-ups, the Patriots. A Super Bowl in year two for Drake May, obviously didn't end how he hoped. Jeremy Fowler says, though, the Patriots appearance could be the first of many, although, of course, nothing in light is guaranteed. On paper, this Super Bowl appearance could be. be the first of many, but that's hardly a slam dunk. Dan Marino was also 23 years old when he reached the Super Bowl he never returned. Joe Burrow was 25 when he led the Bengals to a Super Bowl

in year two. Since then, he has one playoff appearance in four years as the injuries mounted. Greg, how confident are you that Drake can reach another Super Bowl? Look, I'm not really confident at all. And I don't say this as a knock on Drake because I really like him as a young player. I thought he had a fantastic, obviously regular season. He played poorly in the postseason. But I played with a guy we just got done talking about who was one of the most

talented quarterbacks in all the football and Aaron Rogers. How many Super Bowls did he make it to? The one. He had the one. That was it. And we felt like... A lot of NFC championship houses. We're going to be back. We'll be back. We got the best quarterback in the game.

And it just, it's not that easy. And when you look across the league and you can just look in the AFC, there's so many teams that are like on the cusp that are right there. Denver, a team that feels like if we had our quarterback, you wouldn't even gotten that opportunity. You know, the Houston Texans of the world

where the defenses are there, shoot, the Chargers. There's so many teams. I mean, Lamar, Josh Allen, Patrick Rose. There's so many teams that are right there that's going to make the path of getting there that much more difficult, that it's hard for me to sit here and say, yeah, I'm very confident he'll do it

when it just doesn't really happen that often. Yeah, I agree with you. Returning is harder than arriving. I think the issue for this team, considering as a fairly young team, that you now have this target on your back, right? And whether you lost or wanted people want to look at you differently,

Drake May, now he's been exposed and his office align has been exposed. And I feel, I say it, like I said yesterday, they need a receiver won. They need somebody that can, beat all odds. They don't have that. So there's still some holes on that offense that I think they're going to have to continue to build. But I think right now

for him, his confidence still has to be higher, right? Being a young quarterback, landing in the Super Bowl, you have stability at the head coach. You got Josh McDaniel is still there. The defense, I think, is going to be better. So there's a lot of upside. And listen, I think one of the best things that came out of their camp is that he doesn't need season engine surgery, right? Like, he can go into this offseason

and continue to grow and build up instead of having to be on the training table. So I think there's a lot of good ahead. So the odds are always, like, Team A or the field. The odds are always in favor of the field. Of course. Right? Like, that's, of course.

But you guys have both told me these stories. We've talked about it a little bit off the air. Like what Greg was just alluding to with Rogers, like, of course we're going to be back. Yep. You felt the same way, too, right? Like, there's the delusion of the player who gets to the Super Bowl to think that they are going to be back when it's much harder to do it than it is to imagine. Yeah, but that's because of the culture that's built around you. The guys in the locker room and their dedication to being the best they can be each and every Sunday.

Like our defense was, as everybody know, well documented, was the face of our team. Those guys kept returning. The problem is when you started to see those guys leave because of free agency or the culture staff starts changing. And then you start to see the young guys being pushed into different positions that they necessarily weren't mature enough to take on, right? And so that's when you start to see the shift in culture. And also it's hard, right, because it's hard to feed a full tick. When you start winning, you start receiving all this success, you start feeling like wins just happened. You've got to earn every win.

You just have to be on a good outfit that knows how to win. So that's the difference. I'll say this, though, like, next year I'd bet against it. But in his career, I'd bet on it. I think he's going to be a superstar. He's got a good coach. He's got good ownership. And while they'll be worse next year with the record,

I actually think the team could be better because of all the cap space that they have. Like, I think that they reached the Super Bowl a year ahead of schedule, if not two years ahead of schedule. Look, man, I mean, he's in a conference where we all, I don't know. The NFC was better than the AFC this year. The AFC just had the better. quarterbacks. The NFC does have the better teams. But we all still sit and look and say, well, Josh, he'll get to one. Lamar, he'll get to one. Joe Burrell, possibly he'll get back.

Someone's got to be Philip Rivers. Patrick Mahomes is going to be coming back saying, what about me? I'm the one that typically gets to it. So it's going to be difficult. All right, so I went through my way too early top 10 earlier. It was met with no notes. Just don't go on the DVR and check that out. Don't fact check me. Let's turn to the way too early odds for next. season. The Seahawks come in as the as the favorites, co-favorits, with the Rams in their division. Depending on where you shop for your odds, some of this is going to be in a different order, but this is generally speaking, the top 12. Greg, do you look at the Seahawks as being a team that is built to go back to back? They are definitely built to go back to back. When you think

about, we talk about youth with a mixture of good veteran leadership. You obviously have the quarterback in play. The young head coach, They have everything. It's one of the reasons why they won it this year. They come back with that same retooled team. Now, what you just spoke about, we'll see how it translates into this season. How do they handle winning? Absolutely.

Because you have that every year, right? The appetite when you have never done it is far greater. And it's like everybody's foaming at the mouth for it. Once you've tasted that success, not everybody has the same. drive and passion and we're accelerating at the same rate. Yeah, you're right. And I think, listen, I can tell you, man, when I won a Super Bowl, we partied well into the next season.

Like, we were still partying it. We had to remind ourselves as a new season. I love that. And also, listen, those Thursday meetings that were mandatory for every guy to be at so you can be dialed in for Sunday, now they, for some guys, those become optional. So you start seeing the details start to winging. And I think the largest part of, you know, the Seahawks team is, now all this defense that they had a head coach who built a culture that everybody calls home, right?

Like Sam Darno called Seattle home right now because he won a Super Bowl and the guys he's able to trust. Him not having Clint Kubiak no more, that's going to be a big issue. Who sees what happens? You know, there's a couple guys in, you know, Rashid Shaheed. He's going to be a free agent. There's some DBs that's going to be going to be a different locker room. Can they handle that?

Yeah, but every team has turnover. You guys know that better than ever, right? You never bring back the same 53. If the questions are they built to repeat, they definitely are? because if we can just throw up the free agents of guys who played meaningful snaps in the Super Bowl, that is a very small list. And it's not if you did the 10 best players on the Seahawks. I know Kenneth Walker was the Super Bowl MVP, but running backs are fairly replaceable.

They also have the fifth most cap space of any team in the NFL. So yes, they lose Clint Kubiak, and that's big. But if you have a great GM and a great coach and a great roster that was top, top three offense, top three defense this year that just won the Super Bowl and enough cap space to bring back any of your own free agents that you want to and attract a couple of others and a GM who hits in the draft. They are as set up as any team can possibly be to get back. Doesn't guarantee that they will and they probably won't. But they are as well situated as basically any team could possibly be based on their roster. Absolutely.

And that's why when you ask the question, are they built to do it again? Again, of course. And you leaned on a defense. A lot of young guys, a lot of young talent. You just laid it all out there. Like their offensive line is all young. J.S.N. is young. Witherspoon is young.

Yes. Their defensive line is middle of the road in age, but like all coming back. They're in a really good. They're in a tough division, though. Very tough division. Very tough division that they just went through. Oh. It's been a while since we talked Caleb Williams.

You know what I mean? But it's the off season. Hey, this is your guy. Micah started talking about. It's not me. It was Micah. Micah brought it up. It's not my fault, Greg.

We was winning that game. We could act like, Cinder on a shoe, we were winning that game. It just so happened, it got lost again. But, oh, my God. Don't even show me him. I can't lie. Watching that, like, seeing that

and seeing him get that name, It's just this right here. Like, everybody did it. It just kind of just said, it was tough. I feel so bad for Micah Parsons. In case anyone doesn't remember, Greg. This is Caleb Williams with the walk-off against the Packers and the Iceman nickname.

And, you know, he does the whole thing. I don't know. Just the best nickname in the NFL right now. Right? Probably got got, not in all time. Prime time is better. Sweetness is probably the greatest nickname. That's a good one.

Sweet. Mean, jean. Joe Green. Minister of defense. Yeah, the playmaker. So I'm not saying that Iceman is the best of all time. Joe cool is still pretty. I think it's.

Joe cool, Broadway, Joe. The celebration looks more cold than the actual name. Yeah, I'm with that. The Cole Palmer. When Reggie hit that final three, remember within the garden, when he hit the choke sign. The little choke sign that Halliburton. That lives in my dream.

That's one's free in my head. So that probably is a pack of fans. He should just stick, yeah, just. Yeah, right there is the coldest one right there. Okay. I don't want to see it. You don't want to see it. I don't want to see him doing it.

But you respect. I respect it. Yeah, because I wanted him to be the one. But now the ice man with the celebration and that he cemented it against the Packers and now knowing that Micah hates it, I love it. I got to say, like now I am all it if Micah hates it. It's perfect. See you tomorrow on the OT.