First Things First - Mahomes ‘itching’ to get back, Caleb Williams's ceiling, Cowboys ‘fireworks’, Kyren Williams joins

Episode Date: August 10, 2026

(0:00) Patrick Mahomes Week 1 expectations, Should Josh Allen feel guilty over Sean McDermott’s firing? (27:09) Will Caleb Williams be the best QB in his class? (42:39) How will Jaxson Dart perform? (48:43) Josh Allen concerns, How will Patrick Mahomes come back from his injury? (01:06:04) Expect the Commanders and Jayden Daniels to bounce back? (01:14:54) Kyren Williams joins (01:25:57) Cowboys ‘fireworks’, Will the Eagles have a better season this year?  (01:48:45) Bears schedule predictions, How high is Caleb Williams’ ceiling? (02:00:37) Will a motivated Joe Burrow get the Bengals back on track? (02:07:23) Raiders already building a culture after training camp fight? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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You're never happened before. You're wrong. You're wrong. Nope. Your, okay. Okay. Okay. When you say that are our first thing first. I don't know how to rebut that. Today, Mahomes is an unlikely participant for early preseason. So we're just jumping ahead and talking about the real games.

Yeah, week one. Do you see that seven million people watch the Hall of Fame game? Yeah. It's a great rating. Yeah. I try to talk Panthers and he yells at me. You know what I'm saying? People love football.

Yeah. That's true. We did talk Carson Beck. Yeah, but I wanted to talk Bryce too. He didn't play in that game. Even more interesting. Yeah. Me well.

Rams running back. Kiron Williams joins the show. Danny, guess how many touchdowns he had against the Bears in that game? How many? Two touchdowns over 100 yards. It was the game that Caleb had some amazing plays, including throwing the game season-ending interception. No one talks about.

I'm working a Caleb question. To the running back or the Rams? Who knows? All right, I'm interested in how you make that work. And finally, does Caleb Williams have the brightest future amongst all the young quarterbacks. I'm not even going to fight this one. I have a surprise for you guys. Go ahead.

What is it? It would be less of a surprise, but that's fine. I'll just tell you. I made a pie. You made a pie? Is it delicious? Bright future pie. Bright future pie.

That's coming up in like 25 minutes. I knew you'd love it. Love it. I knew you'd love it. Brew might come back. We just pops in. Yeah, for the pie. Didn't know we're doing pie.

We're starting in Buffalo. And Jeannie back for the first time in forever. Oh, and Coach Me and Jeannie's back as well. He's a fan of pies too. Josh Allen was a little rude. What, the guy loves pies. He loves pies. It's a little rude. It's not rude.

People love pies. Josh Allen says he feels guilty for Sean McDermott's dismissal after a four turnover playoff game in Denver. Mike Silver writing in the athletic, seven months have passed. But Alan told me he still harbors guilt for McDermott's dismiss. saying I think about that all the time. There's certain plays throughout the game. And that's going to be every game. We're like, I could have done more.

And I always feel like I can do more. It's like a goodwill hunting Robin Williams moment, you know? Gotta go see about a girl. What do you make of this? I'll say this again. I have said it before. I know I'm right. It is one of the reasons I think that Josh Allen

does not have as big of a problem with me as people thought he would as he showed when he came on the show, Josh Allen gets it way more than so many of the people who cover Josh Allen for a living. Josh Allen is way more comfortable with the reality of, I am a great player who has not always been at my greatest when the team has needed me most. It's not that he never has been,

but he has not always lived up to that standard. And ever since, his whole history, post-13-second game, in each game-ending playoff loss, there has been moment or moments that he can look to and say, if I was better, we would have gone on, that I didn't hold up my end of it. And in this last one, there were a handful of moments, including a couple garrish turner,

and then tears in the locker room that led to his coach getting fired. One of the reasons I have a lot of respect for Josh Allen, not just the player, but the guy that he appears to be. I'm not going to act like I know him very well or know him at all personally. Seems like a great guy. But he seemed. I'm willing to go out on that. Yeah.

I mean, he seemed, but he also, there's a lot of great guys that are good guys, but also struggle with personal accountability. I think he's an accountable guy. I think he gets it. And so I think this is absolutely correct. And I think he likely will think about this and the aftermath of this up until if and when he ever makes and wins a Super Bowl. Because, and I know we argue about this a bit, like, oh, how important was it that the playoff field was bereft of the other star quarterbacks of his era? I do think not capitalizing on a Lamarless, burrowless,

and most importantly, Mahomes list playoffs will haunt him until he is able to actually get to and then maybe win a Super Bowl. So I think this is all accurate, fair, and correct. I thought it was just a totally normal human emotion. His coach got fired. He had four turnovers in the game. he cried in the locker room, and four days later,

when the coach got fired after that loss, the owner cited the quarterback's tears as at least a partial reason as to why. Like, that is like a pretty, that's not like a stretch. That is connecting two dots. That is connecting A to B, that the owner made a choice to fire a coach

in part because of your play in a playoff game and your emotion after it. Where Nick and I, I think, sometimes disagree. a bit on Josh Allen is I do think he is as close to inevitable as inevitable gets in football.

Like I do think right now he holds the title as best quarterback in the league. I will be shocked if he doesn't win a Super Bowl. And in the aggregate, he has been awesome in the postseason. And so... I disagree with you. No, I know. I know you do.

And like, that's fine. But like, if we're going to just say, like, there are moments in the games that they've lost that we can point to where the quarterback could have played better, what player or players in the NFL do we not say that about? Is the list Mahomes deep? No, no, no.

Because there's some games where Mahomes could have played better. The problem is, and this was going around, sometimes NFL Twitter is stupid, and sometimes they raise a point, and I'm like, oh, that's right. Mahomes could have played better in his two Super Bowl losses, and at least one of them, even though they got blown out.

Had he played better, I think they could have potentially won. The playoff lost to Cincinnati, he was brutal in the second half of that game. You can point to those. But you then fortunately have a laundry list of these playoff games where he played great and they won. What NFL Twitter was kicking around this weekend, and I will kick it to you, is what is Josh Allen's signature victory in the NFL? In the league almost a decade. What's the game?

I know what Jaylon has. I have an idea. His signature victory? His signature victory? Yeah. Are you saying there isn't one? I don't tell me what it is. I think it's the game winning run against the Chiefs.

So it's a regular season game? Regular season game. Okay. So that was like a, either that or the week one against the Ravens last year. The, but so that's a regular season game. So that's tough. Yeah. Because I know.

What are the divisional rounds game against Baltimore? What, 27, 25? The two years ago. 27, 25 and 18? I think he had 180 total yards in that game and an 86 passer rating. Two rushing touchdowns. The other divisional round victory he has was 17 to 3 within 140 yards and the big play on that was a Lamar 99-yard pick six. Like I, Mahomes has a half dozen.

Of course. But Joe Burrow has a signature win. Jalen Hertz has a signature win. Matt Stafford has multiple. I would argue for Stafford. It's not even the Super Bowl. it's the playoff win against Brady to get to the conference championship game that year,

that classic game where he has the pass to cup 60 yards down the field and it looked like Brady was going to come back. Brock Purdy, the NFC championship game against the Lions. The answer is the 13-second game, it's just they lost it. Well, then it's not a signature win.

Right, the signature performance in a big game. Well, but the signature game. And so that's where, so that is where the inevitability I push back against because you, I do not believe Josh Allen has been consistently excellent in the playoffs. I think Josh Allen has been the greatest wild card round quarterback the league has ever seen.

And after that, it's been a very mixed bag. And to me, the numbers back that up. Like, he is spectacular in the first round of the playoffs. And that six and oh was also six straight. The only one he lost was his first wildcard game. and that was before he was really a fully formed version of himself. And the reason that I don't think I have quite as much, and I think Josh gets it,

but quite as much empathy for his plight that the rest of the media does, is since that 13 seconds game, in the games they have lost in the playoffs, his fingerprints have been on it. Everyone can just pillory Sean McDermott's awful defense all they want come the postseason, which really, All that had meant was that Mahomes torched them three times. Joe Burrow in a game, Josh played terribly torched them.

And then last year, Bo Nix didn't even really torch him. Josh's turnovers were a big part of that. In the losses, he has played well beneath his standard. So just he had four turnovers against the Broncos. So going into that game, I don't know how many, how many touchdowns he had in that game, but he only had one turnover in the three. No, but it was, but he had three touchdowns in the game. He had three touchdowns.

So he had six touchdowns. Six and one turnover. And the, the lack of the, and again, we've been chapter and verse on this. But he at, he had against the Chiefs post 13 seconds game, two times ball in hand go win the game, came away with zero points. The game that we lied over, the Bengals game where I think we all agree, he and everyone on his team in his building was just. bad in one of those Chiefs game in his building. It was just bad. And then the Broncos game.

Like I just, I don't, I do, I agree with you, Danny, and I don't know where you stand actually because the rise of the Patriots. My money would be on yes or no, does Josh Allen get a Super Bowl? My money is on yes. I think there's a greater than 50% chance. But it is nowhere close. It feels to me like you're at like 90%. Well, no, nothing's 90%.

percent in the NFL, I just, like, what quarterbacks can you not nitpick end of games when everybody loses at the end of the year except one? It's really hard to win a Super Bowl. And he's in the era of Mahomes because like another last three years, seven playoff games. He's four and three with 19 touchdowns and four turnovers, 12 passing, seven rushing, two interceptions, two fumbles, and a four and three record. He's got a pass rating of 104 and he's completing 70% of his passes. He's been an excellent playoff quarterback in the aggregate. You can split it wild card versus other games. It's not like Lamar, who doesn't show up in the plus or plays well under his numbers over time.

If I was a Bills fan, I would say, okay, my quarterback, by and large, is going to play well in the postseason. And he's one of the most talented players in the league, so he's going to get it done. And again, I think he's second best quarterback in football. I also, there is just, since he's been great, he's had one of the best left tackles in the sport. Since he's been great, he's got, he had either the, he had the, I think, was, did Diggs win the yardage title his first year with him? Or it came in, I think he was close. Yes, he did. He did his first year.

And then he got the rushing champ right after. And everyone can say McDermott's defenses were awful. Fact of the matter is every year he's had a top 12 defense post his rookie year, scoring defense. some of the reason the bills have not gotten it done, and you're right about in the aggregate, but over the last four post seasons, all four of those seasons have ended with Josh Allen not playing to his standard.

All four playoff losses, he was markedly worse than he was that regular season, and that is one of the things I think that's weighing on him, which I think is totally legitimate. Bill's open up the season in Houston. Early upset alert for me. Head to Kansas City where Patrick Mahomes looks to be on schedule to take on the Broncos. Week one in Arrowhead.

Here he is on his knee recovery. Take a listen. I forget about it sometimes. I try to be smart, like I said, but sometimes you get through camp, man. You're trying to compete. Practices are long. And I mean, you want to win the rep. And so there's times where I do forget about it and just play football, which is a good thing, you know.

And then I'll have to do that again whenever we get to the regular season. So it's a it's about just just learning how to play with with what I got. And I feel like I'm able to move and do the things that I can. And we're going to keep pushing it and see where I can get it to. So I can hopefully get that okay to go out there and play week one. Your expectations for Patrick in week one, Parkins. It's a tough draw is what I will say. Like I have a ton of questions about the chiefs this year. I have almost no questions about Mahomes. Like he seems to be one of the super athletes who could recover fast and he's ahead schedule by everyone's metrics. I think Mahomes will be good this year. I think Kenneth Walker will be

a massive addition for them. And there are more questions about age of Chris Jones, age of Travis Kelsey, completely new secondary. But those to me are like weeks two through 18 and beyond questions. Week one, not playing in the preseason coming off an ACL and playing that Broncos defense, a team he played once last year, got outplayed by Bow Nix in that game, lost to Bo Nix in that game, we show the Broncos defense, like, what it is. It's just the worst matchup on the schedule. It's the worst possible team you could play. They bring back basically everything from a top two defense in football last year. In the last decade, only the 2022 Eagles had more sacks, only the 23 Ravens had more pressures. It's just a disaster week one matchup for a guy who will not

get any live reps coming off an ACL to play that team in that spot. I think they're going to have the healthier quarterback week one. Patrick didn't have any setbacks. Patrick didn't have any additional surgeries. Patrick and his coach weren't arguing in the media about how healthy his knee is. And as far as, you know, what my expectations for Mahomes are, I bet he has a scramble on their opening drive of the season. On the opening drive.

This, I'm, I, this, I, you know, This guy has been itching to get back since eight weeks after the surgery. He has been anxious to show the world who he still is since three weeks after the surgery. And we will see how these takes age. My confidence level in the Chiefs is directly correlated. not to the sophistication of their offensive scheme, not to the achievement history of their wide receivers. It is about assuming you have Patrick and Andy there,

their offensive line and their defensive line. Are you going to have your as expected, fully healthy, five offensive linemen, and are you going to be able to get your defense off the field on third down by getting to the opposing quarterback? If you guys remember, week one last year when they lost to the Chargers, the thing that I was more bothered about than Xavier Worthy getting his shoulder popped out was they had so many opportunities to get off the field and Justin Herbert on third and long

cooked them up because they could not get a pass rush there. We will see how big the addition of Peter Woods is, their other first round pick, and what they expect to be a better edge rush. But I don't know. They didn't invest in the edge rush. They invest in the interior of the offensive line. I think this will be, or defensive line, pardon me. I think this will be the best offensive line Patrick's had since his last MVP season,

as, you know, if the injury situation stays the same. And so I think that they are going, there is a reason that after spending really less resources on the running back position than any team in the league over the last five years since the Miss Clyde Edwards-Layer pick, they went out and spent more money in free entry on running back than any team in the league. I think they are going to make Denver respect the run game, and I think Patrick is going to rip it. And so I don't think he's going to have some crazy statistical game,

but I think that he is going to try to show the audience in what will be an absolutely electric Arrowhead Stadium that he is fully healthy. So that's what I expect. And to me, the reason I don't think it is the nightmare matchup is right now, the biggest question mark for the Chiefs to me, and then I go to you, KW, is how young the secondary is and how new all those guys in a complicated spag scheme is playing together. It's why I love how the schedule fell, because if you look at the Chiefs from week one through the by, I don't think they play a super sophisticated quarterback until we get to your guy, Justin Herbert. They made the schedule in case Mahomes wasn't helpful. So, I don't, I mean, yeah, I mean, except they gave him the first Monday night football game of the year.

I think they would rather, you know, I think they anticipated that he would be there. But to me, the Chief's defense is going to be a work in progress until we get to the right hand column of the screen there. And so I'm not that concerned about Bo Nix carving them up. I think Bo Nix can win. Bow Nix can be clutch late. It's up 22 points against the Chiefs. And so I, and I am not as worried about Patrick against the pass rush because I just, I think the offensive line is going to be really good. And I think Patrick has something to prove.

Broncos run defense, 3.9 yards per carry tied for second best behind the Seahawks. I'm interested to see if Kenneth Walker can light them up. They're pretty tough. I don't think you have to light them up for, for to, I just think you have to be willing to run the ball to have. to have them open things up. Can I ask you? Sure. You, because you, I would imagine, think the point spreads wrong.

Yes, I do. In that evening, Kansas City, you think Bo Nicks and the Broncos are going to go there and win. It's not predictions week, but I have a lot of – I'm a big defense wins championships guy, so that's why I have the Texans beating the bills. I have the Broncos beating the Chiefs. Do you not pay any heed at all to the fluctuation year-to-year-year in defense? Like you seem a little more confident than I am that the Broncos defense is going to be top five again, that the Texas even is going to be top five again, that the defense, like whatever the great defenses were last year.

I'm way more confident the great offenses will be great than the great defenses will be great year to year. Let me think about that. Out of the three defenses that you named, I'm not confident the Patriots defense, which feasted on a lot of inexperienced and, backup quarterback. Well, what do you always say about the Broncos? Well, the Broncos also had an easy schedule. Yeah, that's what you all have. The Broncos also had a historically easy schedule.

Yeah. But just so I don't, but that's where I think it speaks to the sack numbers. Having 68 sacks, which is second most by any team last 35 seasons, I think that is a little bit of a schedule, a quirk. I think the Broncos have excellent talent. Yeah, the Broncos have excellent. Nick Benito's great. They, they have, they're just take somebody away. Yeah, their secondary is probably the best.

in football. They're a good defense. Yeah. Okay. Lost Franklin Myers, though. You like the Bronx. You like Bonax and Trump Peyton going into our red I love defenses. Time to talk about Danny's second

favorite team Chargers. Also have a good defense. Talking about the offense this time. Mike McDaniel kicks off his first year calling the offense. Here he is on Justin Herbert. Your game will raise if you have to do less. If, you know, maybe

I'm a little more in charge of you know, getting people open. You're, you know, you're not passing 60% of the time. You're closer to 50-50. You know, pass rushers get paid too, and it's hard to take 150 hits and stay upright to his credit he has. It's a great look for McDaniel. He's experimenting with a few looks. That one moves to the top of the list for me.

Yeah. All right. Do you expect the best version of Justin Herber with Mike McDaniel? First of all, Mike McDaniel just kind of morphs into the city. Right. He looked like South Beach when he was in Miami. Now he kind of looks like he's a surfer on the Pacific Ocean. I like it a lot.

Listen, I do expect the best version of Herbert. I think we need to see the best version of Herbert. I have no problem with the criticisms of he hasn't been good in the playoff losses. And at some point, the results have to match the talent. I think all of that is totally fair. What was unfair was what you guys did to Justin Herbert last week on the show when I wasn't here, talking about him and me. Madison beer.

It was mean. It was mean-spirited. And what I will say, yes, there's family and loved ones and kids all over the place. This is just a zoom. Was that a kid playing with his hair? If that's the case, I apologize. No, no.

That was like his niece playing with his hair. It's a fiance. A physical act of love. Like, we don't have to be afraid of a little PDA there. It's, it's lovely. But what I will say is the one thing that Justin Herbert cannot say in his vows to Madison beer is that you're the best thing that ever happened to me. Because that's going to be Mike McDaniel.

Oh, if we look at Mike McDaniel and what he's done since he was with Miami, Mike and Mike McDaniel had Tua and Huntley and Ewers and Skyler Thompson and Teddy Bridgewater. And so if he has fewer pass attempts, but more explosive plays, more yards per pass, more touchdowns and a higher rating, I think it's going to be just fine. So yeah, buy Omari and Hampton stock if you want. and they signed a fullback. They're going to run the ball. That's fine.

But you hate that. That's why you wanted them to get hurt in Greg Roman and they ran the ball too much. But McDaniel is going to unlock the simplicity, the ease for Justin Herbert. He's not going to have to do everything.

He got a play caller, a left tackle, and a right tackle all in one off season. He's going to be great. All right, so I've got two questions. One is, you need help with the values. What is the best version of Herbert?

That's a question. I mean, he's an MVP talent. No, I'm saying. Got an MVP vote. No, what I, what I, What I'm saying is, like, I think most people look to his second year, right? The 5,000 yards, 38 touchdowns, 15 picks.

Yeah. Like, because it's not, I know it's not, for you at least, his first year under Harbaugh, when he had the only, the fewest picks in the league until the pilot game, when he had four. That was a little bit of three picks, super conservative. Last year has been under 4,000 yards passing. You don't love that. Like, you want to see that. pardon me, cannon of an arm

on full display, right? And I don't know exactly if that's what Mike McDaniels, at least in that quote, is talking about. He's talking about passing the ball less. He's talking about taking more off his plate. And then I do have this question. I have one question about Mike McDaniel

because you did a very nice job of showing the quarterbacks that were on the team with those numbers. I am interested in seeing how much his fancy scheme works without the best receiver in the league, which he had for a period of time, and one of the fastest and best number two's, who's now number one in Denver, Jalen Waddle,

compared to, because I, this is the reason I'm saying this. We have spun the Justin Herbert excuse wheel, and it's like, all right, we landed on coach twice. That didn't worry. The offensive coordinator. We landed on an offensive line play. There was a brief period of time where the defense, like, was highly paid, but they weren't around his injuries.

The next man up is these wide receivers stink. You know, Quentin Johnston, he can't catch. Ladd McConkey, he's a, you know, he's an, he's a fun little, you know, gadget guy, but he's not a number one. I would expect that when Herbert doesn't have, the stats to go along with this wow eye test. And the chargers are good but not great because that's who the chargers are my entire life.

That we're going to land on, you know, they've never given him a number one. A true number one. He got old Keenan Allen. What would he look like? Mike Williams was always hurt. With Justin Jefferson. Yes, exactly.

If he had Justin Jefferson. I just wonder how much Mike McDaniel, because I think Mike McDaniel is sharp and I like Mike McDaniel. But I do think part of what made those offenses in Miami Hum was those pre-snap motions and everything to go along with the dynamic speed of those two players. He has no player like that on the roster. I think Ladin Mokicke is going to have a monster year. And those numbers included last year when there was no tie recal.

He'll be fine. Chargers open up in Arizona. Frisky Arizona Cardinals. No. Yeah. Will Caleb be the best quarterback in his draft class? We discuss and Coach Mangini's back. That's next on first things first.

And the Fox Sports Channel on Sirius XM. You got Sirius XM? Of course. That's great. Right now, for a limited time, everyone's part of the Buick team, even you. Buick's employee pricing for you event is on now. Get a purchase credit of up to $3,168 on a 2026 Buick Envision. Surround yourself with signature Buick refinement

from an available massaging driver's seat to an expansive panoramic moonroof and a stunning ultra-wide 30-inch diagonal screen. Don't miss Buick's employee pricing for you event. Visit buick.ca for more details. Predictions week is coming out. Wow! Holy moly! The graphic. Danny too. Danny's not wearing a tie though.

Danny dress up for the graphics. Danny dress up for the graphic. He doesn't wear ties. They don't wear ties in OT. He said they take their shoes off. Me and Caleb made the graphic. And is that Kyron Williams on the graphic? Because he's on the show?

The Kyron Williams made the graphic. Justin Herbert made the graphic. It's very deepening. He's centric. Caleb's not wearing a helmet. Danny's not wearing a top. Sequin Barclay. The last Madden cover athlete talked about the latest Madden cover athlete,

Caleb Williams. Also, Coach Manjini is back. Take a listen. I think he's a great player. I don't think I know he's a great player. I think it can get scary. He reaches the level where I think he can get to. Hopefully it's not anytime soon because he's on the NFC.

But it's cool. What he was able to do in the playoffs and the place that he was able to make throughout the season. Okay, so here's everybody from Caleb's draft class, Caleb Jaden, full of quarterbacks. A little mean to JJ and Pinnock's, but I would have left them off as well. It's fair. This is the second class with four quarterbacks to win a playoff game. Oh, wow. By their sophomore year.

So I mean, everybody who's won a playoff. Oh, that's, I didn't know that. And these guys have kind of, you know, put some distance between themselves, including Bow Nix, who just has won the most games and also thrown the most touchdowns. However, no one's really riding for Bo NIC, so I was assigned Bo NIC. That's how it works. Are there, is there, what are the chances that Caleb ends up the best quarterback of this class, Danny? It's likely.

Likely, like, yeah, it's 51 or like. I think he's the heavy favorite. I think he's the heavy favorite to be the best quarterback in his class. What? No, I'm waiting. I'm listening. Coach gave me a little wig. I just missed him so much.

Yeah, welcome back, coach. Oh, that's the greeting. He's a guy off of him. Finally gets him love with him. Yeah, a little bit of love. Heavy favorite. He's the heavy favorite. Yes.

He is the most talented. Do we all agree with that? No. He is the most physically talented player. of that class. I don't agree with that. Physically talented, like strong and fast? Yeah.

Or just elusive? Arm, elusiveness. Like, he is the best raw talent of that class. I do agree with that, but I understand the argument for two of the other guys. I understand the argument for Jaden and for him. Who is? Jane Daniels.

Jayton Dale's elusive. I thought he was a latehs. He was pretty elusive. Drake May pretty talented. He was in a 40-yard dash forward. I don't know who it wins, but backwards, I would definitely say you. Okay.

I would just say this. Caleb went from year one being the most sacked player in 20 years, going from 68 sacks down to 24. Took his biggest problem and made it into one of his biggest strengths. He went from 20 touchdowns in year one to 30 touchdowns in year two. What happened between year one and year two? He got Ben Johnson. I think that Ben Johnson is on his way to being, in short order,

widely considered in the class of, like the Kyle Shanahan, Sean McVey, Andy Reed level coach. Andy Reed has four losing seasons in 27 years. Sean McVeigh has one losing season in nine years, and it was when Matt Stafford got hurt. So I think if you take this insane level physical specimen talent who has fully bought in to Ben Johnson's coaching, and you take elite talent with elite coaching, the ceiling is. is limitless, and I expect Caleb Williams to be consistently competing for Super Bowls and MVP's. Amazing.

For the record, I won't coach you. I don't think that's outlandish at all. The second to last point Danny made, I think, is not even borderline controversial, that Caleb is an elite talent, and Ben Johnson right now has the track record of a guy who looks like he'll be an elite coach, and you put those two together, you expect really positive results. Because when a great... I don't think that's even, like, I think both of those things are almost objective

truths. Caleb is an elite talent. And Ben Johnson, as far as track record you could have from offensive coordinator or head coach with one year of head coaching experience, his track record is on an elite trajectory. I do think consistently competing for Super Bowls and all of that, maybe a... Can I just dig into the word elite for a while? How many elite coaches are there?

On the offensive side of the ball, I mean, Reed, Shanahan, McVeigh, in Jacksonville, they're hoping it's Liam Cohen. There's a few more. Why wouldn't you tag Liam Cohen with the same moniker? I mean, he took Trevor Lawrence, had a bad season last year, did great things with him. And did great things with Baker. He had one shirt on, that's why. I'm just saying he has one year. He has one year of production.

He should be with Andy Reed and Bill Belichick and all the great. I did not say Bill Belichick. I'm just saying, like. Well, hold on. I don't want to be fair here, because I have a pile. also to show you guys. Oh, yes. But you, up until Ben Johnson took the bear's job, you loved Ben Johnson.

I loved that. I loved Ben Johnson. The offensive master. I love the combination of coaching in Denver. I love Detroit. I'm sorry, Detroit. I liked Dan Campbell and Ben Johnson. I would like that they would do tricky stuff.

I like that they try to rub it in the Cowboys base. So you liked all that. And then whether you like it or not, he was objectively by. any measure a success is his first year's ahead. Yes, definitely. And so, and the reason Liam Cohen, I think, is not, and I like Liam Cohen. Liam Cohen, it's the difference between being the number one overall pick like Caleb Williams and being the Tyler Shuck, a second round pick.

Like, so Liam Cohen was not year over year, like the number one coaching prospect that people were trying to hire. So he came in with a better pedigree. So I think that would be the rationale of the reason why. It's similar. So I think all of that's totally reasonable. I also think coach might right now vouch for Jaden and KW is going to do Drake May. Would it be my guess.

Look, I see the talent with Caleb, and I saw that in college as well, where you get the wow plays and the unbelievable plays, and that's great. And then there's the plays where he's missing layups, and that's problematic. And that was a problematic in college. And he got sacked a lot in college. He got sacked a lot in his first year in pro football. He did do a great job of eliminating the majority of those sacks. Those are positive too. And we know he can do the complicated things well, the difficult things well.

But until he can consistently do the easy things well, that's hard to win games over time. He's going to have to be able to build on that to be considered in the realm of the other great, quarterbacks and and you just haven't seen. We've seen one year of positive production but it was all late and didn't his complete percentage go down this season versus last season?

We're in the 50s. But can I, but before you go KW, can I ask you this though? But for the sake of this discussion we're not comparing him to Mahomes and Alan and Lamar and you know those the established great quarterbacks. If you of these four guys

if you could have any of them and it's like, hey, you're running the team for the next decade. I'm very curious. I don't know who you're not, because I don't think you're nearly as high on Drake May as KW is. You know what I, Jaden, I know you like a lot, but he got banged up as some people thought he might, skinny guy. And so, like, I feel like you would take a long time in debating whether or not

Caleb is your answer to this. Because I see the same things from Caleb that I saw in college where you can't deny some of the unbelievable things he does. And then you get incredibly frustrated with the misses, the misses that should just be, should be easy to do. And he still, last year, held the ball longer than any quarterback. Every, you know, his time to throw was the highest of anybody in the NFL. And I think that is going to continue to be a problem over time.

I'm interested in the pie. Obviously, my answer is Drake May. I think you would be, even as an ardent Bears supporter, do you have the Bears going to the Super Bowl this year? And Caleb being... We're doing that on the O.T., buddy. Caleb being second, if not first, an MVP? Well, that's a totally different question, right?

I'm just talking about can Caleb this year reach the heights, accolades that Drake... I don't... It's a team accomplishment. Hold on. There is. It is? The... I know it's a team accomplishment. No, I mean, I think, but I don't think that's a...

Just for me, and I'll do the pie. That's not fair? No, no, no, no, it's not that it's not fair. I just think those are not. I think that you can say, I believe this player is going to be the best player in this class, while also thinking a different player is going to have had the best single season over the next few years. Like that, I think the odds are Drake May also in the next three years. There's a good chance that Drake May, Jaden, Bo, Bo, Nicks, Caleb, none of them.

finish top two MVP or make another Super Bowl. And so I'm saying he might just hold that title of the best single season, even if over the next few years he's not the best player. But maybe he'll be first in the pie. Let's see the pie. Much like you left out Michael Pinnock's and JJ McCarthy. I did as well. 2% Bownex.

Give him a 2% chance. That's rough. It's rough. You guys aren't even, I'm the only one advocating for him. I'm a lot. I wasn't asked to make a pie. I'm all of a sudden the Bonex guy. Bownix could have.

I would be bigger than 2%. If Bonax doesn't get hurt. Oh, I forgot to tell you guys what happened while you were going. What? If Bonax doesn't get hurt, he beats the Patriots, you're about to have this tank? First of all, you're not supposed to remember that. I introduced a new segment on the show called Men in Black take, where you're men in black and then I can neuralize you guys so you can never bring it up again.

So you can say it, but don't be like, you even said that three weeks ago. So here's a men in black tape. Okay. If Bo Nix doesn't get hurt at the end of the game, he could have easily beaten the Patriots. Then you have defense wins championships, a great Seattle defense against a great Denver defense, and Bo Nix could be a Super Bowl champion right now.

Yeah. Yeah. But again, I never said that. Okay. All right. I'm giving him 2% because I just, I think the other three guys raw talent is so much higher. And Caleb and Drake are also so much younger

that I think there's more of an upside there. 13% Jaden Daniels. I am legitimately concerned about his long-term viability with that style and frame. It has been a consistent take. All it's ever been done is proven right. We'll see how this year goes. Coach, you have an elite eye-roll game.

Listen, I think that... You've been killing Jayden Day. He's... I've not been killing him. I don't like skinny football players. Because I don't have... don't like skinny football players. And I'm consistent with it. Who's that skinny receiver the Kansas?

I didn't like that. Hold on. No, I was KW. He didn't love it. He promptly was injured. I didn't love it. I didn't love it. I mean, listen, I will root for him.

But it makes me, no, it makes me nervous. That leaves 85% of the pie left for two guys. At 40%. Drake, make a break. What? What did you get? Give me a break. What do you mean?

That's ridiculous. You think it's, I, so. 45% Caleb. Youth is a whole on. What does Caleb, what, this is a real question? Yes. What does Caleb do that Drake May doesn't do?

Run back, like the spectacular run backwards? I think he has, so I'll answer that. No, no, no. I think he is a better runner. I think he has a stronger arm. And I think. Better runner forward. Like, who had more, like, better runner forwards?

No, I better, forward, sideways, or backwards. I understand that Drake may, I think, last year. might have. I'm not sure actually if it's right or wrong, who had more rushing yards. But if you're asking me who I think is more dangerous as a runner, I think it's Caleb. I think Caleb has maybe the strongest arm in the league, certainly a top three arm strength. And I also... Drake's arm is strong. No, no, no. And I also... I also do value that I thought Caleb played some of his best ball in the playoffs. And I thought Drake played very poorly in the playoffs.

Again, I think Drake May is going to be a top five quarterback, KW. I like him a lot. But your utter diss – you think it's impossible that Caleb ends up the best quarterback in the draft class? Again, maybe I should have prepped this segment better. I would like to see three or four – because you guys are huge on empirical data. Three or four, like, hey, here are the stats where we're like, boom, Caleb Williams is – better than Drake Me. There's not a lot of, but I'm big on empirical data for discussing either careers that are, the cement is dry or we are most. They're from the same draft class.

Their first head coach got fired. Then they had a brand new coach, brand new coordinator second year. One guy threw an interception to end their playoffs. The other guy didn't play great in a winning in advance scenario and played in the Super Bowl while being the second MVP and leading in completion percentage yards, pass a rating, etc. I mean, Drake was better than Caleb last year. At this table, one guy's from Chicago, and one guy had a quarterback on Mahomes Mountain before he ever came out. And one guy's from New England,

and one guy picked Jaden Daniels to go to the Super Bowl recently. And so, like, we can all play that game. Yeah, but I had no skin in the game for Jaden Daniels, but I'm not from whoever Jaden from. Listen, but the idea that, hold on, it is a very different, it sounds like the discussion you wanted Danny and I to have is who's had the better career.

No, but if it's just like, I think he had. I push back on like, I think he's a better runner. Like, all right, again, do you not? No, I think that if I, if I think though I would, you usually lean toward the more powerful, strong guy when you're, who's also fast. If it's, if it's. Yeah, I don't, I, I look at Caleb as, and again, I don't want to get lost in the weeds here. I look at Caleb's running as a legitimate weapon.

I think Patriot fans look at Drake Mays running as I wish he wouldn't do that. A little bonus. It's just a bonus on... But also he gets... The sacks for him went up. The brutal hits and the worries about concussions with him to me put his running in a different category. Like, I don't think it's a hot take that Caleb Williams is a more dangerous runner.

The strong arm stuff I don't buy either. Former Pittsburgh Steeler, Calvin Austin III, signed with the Giants for an interesting reason. Jackson Darts' strong. swag, Danny. Austin told the New York Post, anybody could tell you the Giants were the number one team on my list because I saw the swagger, the composure, that thing you can't really teach and that mentality said Harbaugh was the icing on the cake. You were on the verge of declaring yourself, quote, a Jackson Dart guy in the morning meeting. Have there been any developments on

that front? Since the meeting, no, I haven't learned anything more about Jackson. I'm a Jackson dark guy. Officially. I am a believer. I think he is the forgotten high ceiling, potential star young quarterback. We don't, we will talk about him more because of Harbaugh and because of New York if they are good. Yeah. But Jackson Dart did things as a rookie that normally garner a lot more attention. Like he, he, he had 12 starts.

In 10 of those 12 starts, he had multiple touchdowns. That's only happened with two other rookie quarterbacks in the last five years. It was Jaden Daniels and Bo Nix, but they did it in 17 games. He did it in 12. And so if we just can throw up the touchdown to turnover ratio for DART from week four on last year, it's lower than those other guys. But that's the entire list of players that had that threshold of touchdowns with that few of turnovers. He was a playmaker.

And then when you add in, coach will make fun of me for calling it like grading it on a curve. But the things he had to deal with there, Brian Dable gets fired in week. Week 10. Trivia question. How many full games did he play with Malik Neighbors last year? Zero. Zero. He got, neighbors got hurt in week four when Dart came in. He played four games with Scataboo. They returned four other five starters from the offensive line. They drafted Maui Noah, top 10 pick to add to the offensive line. Upgrade in theory at coach. Like I just, I think it's a, I think there's a very high ceiling for this kid as a playmaker who did a lot of good

in an awful situation. They scored 30 or more points in five of his 12 games. Dude's a playmaker and everything around him just got better. Yeah, I'm maybe not as enthusiastic as you are here. And there were a lot of positive things in a season that was disappointing. And defensively, they weren't very good. So they were playing from behind a lot, which meant that they had to push the ball down the field. But there's a lot of things about his personality that I think,

needs to mature. Correct. Dramatically. And when he's talking about how he's going to play and taking chances and all those things, he said it's not soccer and I've been doing this my whole career and I'm going to keep doing it, that's fine. But when you get hurt and you're not available for the team, that swagger is not going to matter because you're going to be on the bench.

So there's that. And then a week ago, he scores a touchdown and he throws the ball and a defensive back's face. That's not typically the sign of leadership that you're looking for for the leader of the whole team. So I know he says that Harbaugh allows him to be himself. I don't know if he's implying that he's allowing him to run the way he wants to run or I'm not sure what that dig was at Dayball. But there's good things, but it's not, it can't be over the top. I'm going to do what I do regardless of any of the consequences to the rest of the team. I have been talking sports with Danny for 20 years.

Okay. It is pretty rare. I don't see a take of his coming. Not because you're predictable, because we grew up talking sports together. I'm stunned that you are going with Jackson Dart for a number of reasons. First one is a very basic one, which is I know for a fact you don't like his coaching staff.

You thought that Greg Roman was an albatross around or an anchor around Herbert's neck. He's there. Matt Nagy is their OC. You didn't love him with the Bears. I got a bad experience. And the other guy is Wilde's guy, Brian Callahan, who's, you know, grand opening, grand closing was Will Levis in Tennessee. For the record, coach convinced me to like Callahan. No, he likes his dad as the offensive line coach.

So there's that. Second of all, Danny, if you were. just watching, if you didn't watch the Giants last year and you heard Danny's segment you're like, man, Jackson Dart must have been slinging it around the field, all these multi-touchdown games. Nine of those 24 touchdowns were running.

And I'm not saying the running touchdowns don't count. But that, I do not think to coach's point that Jackson Dart's running style is sustainable. That's where No, of course not. He's diving head first. And so many of those highlights are like read options from

him, him running the ball. I don't, I mean, KW is correct. We were talking about the Caleb thing. I do like, like, I consider Josh a more prolific runner than Lamar at times because of the way he runs. And I like the quarterbacks if they can kind of, you know, give out some more punishment than take. Jackson Dart's whole disposition terrifies me. And I don't know, Malik Neighbors will see, you know, when he's fully healthy, full go. I think neighbors is a great player, and I think John Harbaal is a good coach.

But I do not think the. mentality he has displayed up to this point in his career is tenable for a starting quarterback. I just, I don't think like, you know, devil may care, as our producer Dusty would say, frat guy works in the NFL. How much pressure is on Josh is on Josh Allen to make the Super Bowl? I'm stunned. You're a Jackson Dart. I like him.

I like him. And Jackson Dart sounds like a star player name. He has a good name. It's got a great name. It is a great quarterback. Live from New York. It's a show that's selling all their bear stock. I didn't have too much, to be honest with you.

Buy them. I've got another upset. I'm really excited for predictions week. I can't. I keep on, I'm like a little kid opening his presence early. Because you keep. Panthers over Bears, week one. Nice.

I won't come into work the next day if that. You're not. Why? When's the last time you saw the Panthers play at home? Do you remember? Yeah. They were this close to being the mighty Rams, this close. Panthers were on fire at the end of the year last year.

Panthers in Carolina are special. They're special. Yeah. Panthers in Carolina are saying are they built the bills. So we, we, you now, listen, I don't, I don't, you don't, you don't, you already, you've only told us three picks and they're all upset. Yep. They're my upset. With Panthers over bears.

Yes. You have Texans over bills. That line is wrong. And you have Broncos over chiefs all week one. Two of those lines are wrong. I don't think any of those are unreasonable. Well, the Chiefs being home favorites is certainly not wrong. It's certainly not wrong.

You can say that they're not going to win. The Texans being home underdogs, the line is wrong. Well, that's what I'm saying. You think the line's wrong on that. That one I understand. What are our expectations for Mahomes? Are we going to see a vintage Mahomes in week one? And also the Rams, Tyron Williams is joining the show.

We talked about, I'm just going to ask him, is is Aaron Donald coming back. It's a good question. Just tell us. Great question. You're a journalist. No, Kyron Williams running back. You're a journalist.

No, and ask a good question. That's good. No. All right. Right now, we're headed back to Buffalo. Hey, guy, come on. Bill Stadium has obstructed views while Josh Allen's looking backwards. Good one, KW.

Nice. Told Mike Silver of the athletic that he says he feels guilty about McDermott's dismissal. Adding, I always feel like I can do more. Coach, what did you make of this? Yeah, he should feel guilty. Absolutely. He wasn't he the one that was crying in the locker room? Yes, he was crying.

And the owner came in, said, oh, my God, the quarterback's crying. We better fire the head coach. Wasn't that the thought process for dramatically changing the organization? Because there were tears after a disappointing loss that he had as much to do with as anybody else did. And then he's part of the hiring process. So I would imagine before the head coach got fired, it was probably run by him, and maybe he could have not signed off on it.

I mean, I wasn't there, but just judging by how involved he was in the hiring process, you think he has some juice in that organization. He certainly likes the coach they picked to be the head coach. Yeah, so to feel guilty about the guy getting fired, yeah, that's probably right. That's probably about what it should be. Do you think it should still be lingering with him, though?

No, look, you can't do anything about it now. McDermott could end up in the division at some point, and then we'll see how that all works out. But, yeah, there's nothing he can do. That ship has sailed. That ship sailed when he signed off on him. So I am interested in whether or not the bills are going to regret the McDermott firing. And I know Bill's fans are, you know, adamant that. he was a big problem and that his playoff defenses cost him so much.

And it's just impossible for them to accept that multiple things can be true, which is those defenses under Leslie Frazier and then under Sean McDermott when they ran into the Chiefs and the playoffs underperformed. But also in their playoff losses that weren't against the Chiefs, Josh Allen greatly underperformed. And in a couple of those playoff losses against the Chiefs, Josh Allen had the opportunity to win and didn't come through. but the first time ever had coach making the Super Bowl,

it's happened, but it's relatively rare. We can show you, like, so the circumstances in which they made the Super Bowl, so Jim Caldwell did it. That was a, you know, ready-made team. You could say that was similar, but that also was Tony Dungey retiring, right? That was not Tony Dungey getting fired. They moved on.

the Raiders, again, they didn't fire the coach as much as the Bucks paid the King's Ransom to get Gruden from him. So Callahan. Kind of a fire. And they traded him. They traded him. But, I mean, I thought he was going to go back there if the Bucks. Again, George Seaford is another unique one where the great Bill Walsh steps aside. George Seifert won is one of the Seiford and McCafford.

McCafferty, pardon me, are the two that won the Super Bowl. And for the bills being the ultimate or as much of a Super Bowl or bus team, it is a hell of a gamble to go with the offensive coordinator who is very close friends with your quarterback as the guy who's now going to run the entire operation. I do want to give Josh Allen credit because he is consistently willing to take accountability that the media does not want him to have to take. Everyone, like the story from outside of Buffalo is, team hasn't been good enough, other people have let him down, the coaches let him down, he's gotten unlucky, and Josh has consistently said, whenever asked, I could do better. And again, he's a great player, but he is correct, particularly in that game specifically, he could have been way, way better.

I mean, in that game specifically, it's an open and shut case, right? He had 350 yards of offense and three touchdown. but he also had four turnovers. And to coach's point, it seemed like directly led to the coach getting fired, intentional or otherwise, from his performance or how he handled it postgame. It stuck with the owner. The owner fired the coach four days later. I do think the number of points given up in the playoff losses is a pretty damning indictment of McDermott's defense.

I know people will point to his regular season DVOA over time. But like if you score 28, 29, 30 points in playoff games in lose, lose. It's at least partly because of your defense. And yes, some of those points allowed were because of Josh Allen turnovers that led to short fields that led to a lot of points scored. But I do look at Buffalo as this year being a team that will likely be carried again by Josh Allen and their offense. I don't look at Buffalo's defense as saying it's very good this year with that collection of pounds. Their offensive line is good. Their running back is good. Was the offense last year carried? Was Buffalo last year carried by Josh Allen?

They had the rushing champ. They had the rushing champion. I'm not sitting here making the argument that Josh Allen has been a one-man show. I've never said that. His offense, his offensive line has been crazy underrated, and James Cook has gotten a lot better. And as they changed offensive coordinators, they actually went more to the run game

and made it less about Josh Allen and gave him more of a balanced attack. I think he has been let down by his defense in the playoffs, in the aggregate. I think where I struggle with this whole decision, making processes, you go ahead and you move on from the head coach, and he's the problem, but it's not like you go get someone that's dramatically different. The coach that was there was part of all those decisions last year. Those four turnovers, he was part of that as well. So the GM, he's only had a handful of pro bowlers since they drafted Josh Allen.

And you look at his track record of drafting versus the Baltimore Ravens track record of drafting since they had Lamar Jackson. and it's dramatically different. So, you know, we can say, yeah, the defense maybe let him down. It's hard to win any game in the NFL when you turn the ball over four times. I mean, it's just statistically improbably not. But this is where, and this is where I'll argue with you and I'll argue with the, I understand what the raw numbers are.

I also know that since in the four postseason since the 13 seconds game, Josh Allen, who has been consistent, not given some plotted, but a guy who is called in various circles, the quarterback of the all-decade team. Greenie said he's as good as any quarterback who has ever played the game. You said to start the show, he's the best quarterback in football.

He has given all of the accolades four years ago in the playoffs with the opportunity to go tie the game against Kansas City, down three to go, forget, tie the game, go win the game, make it to where we're both. Holmes can't beat you.

Got to the fringe of field goal range. They don't pick up the first down or a touchdown. Miss a field goal. Okay, got a little unlucky field goal. I guess you say it happens. Bengals, blow them out one year. They score, I think, 10 points. Then you get the game in your building.

I might have these years. No, that game was in their building. That one. Again, against the Chiefs, you're in a spot. You're down three points. You can, you have the ball three and a half minutes left. Go get points. Makes it where Mahomes can't beat you.

You get 17 total yards. You get zero points. Last year, despite the three turnovers, your defense gets a stop in overtime, right? That was the second possession of overtime. You get the ball. You have a, go get points. He throws a pick. So I, there is, that is four playoff losses in a row, three of them.

He had the ball in his hands. It was not about McDermott's defense. It was not about Patrick Mahomes. It was not about any of that. To go get any points and got zero. And the one where he didn't have that situation, they got blown out at home by Cincinnati. The Cincinnati team that everybody is just certain

that had they played the year of the 13 second game, they would have beaten. Everyone said they would have won the Super Bowl that year, not for 13 seconds. But Cincinnati, who beat him the following year, was waiting for him. So I just, I don't. And they're in the play.

house last year and there's no Mahomes there's no Lamar Jackson, there's no Joe Burrow. I just don't buy that this is that there is necessarily a positive that they moved

on from the coach and I appreciate that Josh Allen is one of the few people willing to say yeah, one of the reasons we haven't gotten over the hump is because I haven't done what I need to do in the highest leverage moments. Buffalo opens up in Texas.

You're terrified of that game for them. Not terrified. You're excited. That's a guaranteed loss. Guaranteed. He's had two of his worst games of his career against the Texans, the last two games. Patrick Mulhams, and he's looking fine. Here he is with a progress report for coach.

Take a listen. I forget about it sometimes. I try to be smart, like I said. But sometimes you get through camp, man. You're trying to compete. Practices are long. And I mean, you want to win the rep. And so there's times where I do forget about it.

and just play football, which is a good thing, you know, and then I'll have to do that again whenever we get to the regular season. So it's about just learning how to play with what I got, and I feel like I'm able to move and do the things that I can, and we're going to keep pushing it and see where I can get it to, so I can hopefully get that okay to go out there and play week one. Coach, what are your expectations for Patrick and the Chiefs coming off the injury? It's been encouraging during training camp,

and hearing him talk is positive. But I went back and I looked at Tom Brady, and I looked at his injury progression. If we can bring this up, so in 07, the 07 year was a pretty special year. That's exactly my point. So this is an incredible year that he has. The numbers are unbelievable.

He gets hurt. He comes back to the next year. And the numbers aren't terrible, but they're dramatically different than what it was. And this is a quarterback that doesn't have to move around. And now, fast forward with Patrick Mahomes, what did he do last year? Well, he had the worst completion percentage of his career.

He had the worst quarterback rating of his career. He got sacked at the highest percentage of his career coming off the season before where he'd been sacked at the highest percentage of his career. And he's a guy who does rely on mobility, who does need those things. So, you know, am I optimistic because of the things that he's saying in camp and how he's moving around? Those are all really positives. But here's one of the greatest quarterbacks of all time coming off an unbelievable season. And you saw that there was obviously some fall off. not as dramatic, but if we fall off from what Patrick did last year,

well, that would be bad. If he has a 20-point pass rating drop from his career low, we're going to, if he has that type of percentage drop, we're definitely in trouble. Yeah, I think that Mahomes, I don't think we're going to be talking much about the injury this year. I think it'll be a storyline because he is coming off of an injury and it is a return from injury. But guys return 100% from ACLs as like the norm now in sports. And he is clearly a fast healer and has been ahead of pace.

And they didn't even make it a storyline that we could do as a topic. Like Will Patrick Mahomes play with? He was cleared for day one of training camp. But his quotes, he does, he has yet to say, like, I'm ready to go. Yeah, but I reported four months ago. He was going to be dancing at Travis County's wedding. He's going to be starting week one. Everybody, I understand.

Maybe I need to get the actual. No, of course, he's not going to say it. It's not who he is. He's not going to say it. And he's not, he won't announce it. at some point will happen as this. And a few days before the first week of the season, Andy Reid-Aulda's press conference right before the Chiefs released

their first official injury report, and he'll say Patrick Mullen's full participant, and we expect him to be ready to go week one. And that'll be the way the Chiefs announce it, because that's kind of how they do business. But you're right. They are not flatly saying it. They allowed me to report it and be the only person.

It was very generous of them for you to put on your fake news hat there. Yes. I just think for the snap judgments, the overreaction, and all of the things that we all do in this business to every game and especially to week one, that's going to be a tough spot. Because the Broncos defense is awesome.

And I just don't see with some questions on the offensive line, with plenty of questions about their playmakers, with questions about their defense, with whatever questions you have about Mahomes' year last year before the injury, I just don't think the Broncos defense is ripe to be taken advantage of by anybody in week one for a huge offensive explosion. So my guess is questions. about in the Holmes and the Chiefs' Offensive

linger a little. Yeah, so I, that's certainly possible. The other possibility is that and this is why I'm glad and when the schedule came out I said I was happy about it, that they get Denver week one because they can pop that entire balloon immediately.

Now, again, Denver can win and say, hey, we won the division last year. We now went to your building and won. We have a de facto game and a half lead. You're going to be chasing us all year, so be it. The other thing can happen is a team that had won the division every single year

of Patrick's career and Patrick who going into last year year I think had lost twice to the Broncos ever maybe once going into last year or whatever it is they can just beat them to start the year and say yeah believe it or not Vegas is right that we're the division favorites. So if they don't

beat them is it because of their injury or if they don't beat them is it because receivers or what's the reason they don't beat them? I mean the Broncos might be better. Laronkos could beat him. I don't look at the Chiefs

as right now an injured team. Patrick is healthy. You said questions on the offensive line. I don't have a question about the offensive line. I think the offensive line is going to be good. I have questions about... Say it again?

I thought you were saying Delane. Well, no. I think he's going to be fine too, actually. He was practicing today. I think they're being very cautious with him. I think the secondary is going to be a work in progress over the course of the year to hope it gels by the end of the year.

young players and new guys together and Spags' scheme is complicated. That is a question. Are they going to get any pass rush off the edge? Historically, you were talking about the Broncos 68 sacks. A couple of years ago, the Chiefs without a star pass rush rather than Chris Jones had, I think, 62 sacks or something. They were like they had these crazy sack numbers.

Is that going to come back? And are, is Rishie Rice going to look at all like the Rishie Rice he did as a rookie when he was outstanding? Those are the questions I have. I don't. And so, and the Broncos, listen, maybe Bonix does have a little bit of magic. It's year three for Sean Payton. Broncos might be excellent again. I'm skeptical of that. Maybe they will be. But it is, the chiefs have lost the benefit of the doubt on if they lose. It must just be because they did something wrong as opposed to. You know, maybe the team is better than them. We'll see. I don't think that's going to be the case.

But Patrick's injury is not going to play a part in how the chief's look in week one, because Patrick is no longer injured. Love it. Breakout season for Jaden Daniels next. Tonight, Philly's Cardinals. Coverage begins 630 Eastern right here on FS1. Coach Manjini is back. Danny Parkins in for Chris Broussard. Right now we're headed to D.C.

Some good news and bad news for the commanders. The bad news first. Laramie Tunsell tricep injury. He's going to need surgery. Timeline TBD. Brinning Coleman. is going to step in at left tackle. Good news for Jaden. Stefan Diggs, fresh off of a thousand yards season, still has something to prove.

Take a listen. They have some success in the recent years, you know. They had some injuries last year, but I like going to be a part of something that's in the, going in that right direction, you know, going into, you know, I'm 32 years old. You know, I'm on the back and I got more football behind me than in front of me. But I want to demonstrate I can hook still. I can do everything I want to do out here. I could be a great receiver and be a good receiver for Jaden.

More or less confident. You miss him so much. He was, you know what? He did a good job. It's like being on Saturday Night Live. You came, you do your job, you helped everybody out, and then he just moved on. It was kind of beautiful. Good parties.

But just like one year SNL? Yeah, it was just one year. Yeah, it was just one year. And it was done. All right. More or less confident in Jane and the Commanders. Good news, bad news. Way less.

I think I will be shocked if we have an injury in training camp that is more significant than the Laramie Tunsell injury. And obviously we all don't root for injuries. But like, Jane and Daniels, Nick might have pointed out, he's a skinnier dude. He's a little slender. He took a ton of sacks as a rookie. We didn't really talk about it because he had, for my money, the best rookie season I've ever seen. I said it was better than CAMs, better than Herberts, better than RG3s. I thought it was unbelievable.

The stats, the winning, what they asked him to do on third down, fourth down, everything. He was incredible. But he took 47 sacks as a rookie and was sacked like 9% of the time. We just didn't really talk about it because he was winning and because Caleb took 68 sacks. So it was way worse, obviously. Then they give up a ton to get tonsil, but Jaden gets hurt. And now Jaden is back and tonsils out. But Jaden's sack rate was basically the exact same in year two as it was in year one.

when and then he got hurt. He obviously played in seven games. So I just, he's their best player, Laramie Tunsell. Like, Laramie Tunsell is the best player on the commanders. And he's out probably for the season. And they made a huge investment in getting a top three left tackle to try to pay him a ton of money for the rest of Jaden's rookie deal while it's beneficial.

And now it's just not likely to line up for any real length of time. I just think it's a devastating injury for them. Yeah, the frustrating thing, part about the commanders and look I'm a big commanders fan for Dan Quinn and for jaden Daniels is that they're the oldest team in the NFL again and and I talk about this all the time when when you're an old team typically about midway through the season those injuries stack up when you're a young team those young players are getting stronger midseason they're getting better midseason and the older the older teams tend to go the other way and decline and you add

digs that adds talent but it's a little like the 49ers formula where you're adding talent, but it's older talent. So there's an injury issue there. And the 49ers last year were one of the highest teams in terms of injuries and missed times, just like the 49ers were. And it hasn't changed this season. So I don't think that Jaden's size is necessarily going to be the issue like Nick does. Certainly doesn't help.

And it's not great. I don't love it. Would I like him to have a little, I mean, they took a picture. The picture is the picture. They took a picture that. Nick pulled out so that he looks like a safety from the Mac. But I don't think that's necessarily going to be the reason that he gets hurt. I think he will make better decisions as a runner, but it is one of the things that he does really well and makes him dangerous.

So there's a balance there. To me, it's the age collectively of the whole team. And you see with Tunsell where you get hurt in a one-on-one drill and training camp, one-on-on-one-pass rush. You know, is it directly tied to his age? You can't say that, but more likely. Listen, I have very, very little confidence in the commanders, and I had very little before, as Danny put it, arguably their best player got hurt.

I just don't love, I didn't love the roster before. You don't think the quarterback's their best player? Well, he's certainly their most important player. I think Danny's, like the, are you ranked everyone at their position, like all the left tackles, all the quarterbacks, all the receiver. I think he is a higher ranked left tackle than Jaden is quarterback. But sure. I mean, he's one of their two or three very best players on the entire roster.

But even with him, I was skeptical because I didn't love the overall talent on the defensive side of the ball. On the offensive side of the ball, it is asking Jaden to do a lot. Like his rookie year, he had to do a lot. It's why it was, you know, one of, if not the greatest rookie season ever. And I do think that, you know, when we, KW, we'll see how the next five years go for Caleb and the Bears. Sure. But it's certainly on the board that, well, I don't think it's going to be the case, that you end up being right that deep down last year was a lot of luck.

A lot of end-of-game, magic, turnovers, you know, one great playoff performance and, you know, a lot of, you know, a lot of end-of-game, magic, turnovers. You know, one great playoff performance. and a long tale of that. I don't think that's going to be the case, but it's certainly on the board. That is exactly what I think was the story of the commanders. Yeah. I think the commanders were,

now, Jaden was special at it, but they were amazingly fortuitous at the end of games, and then, you know, offensively caught an absolute heater. Really, I mean, one game, really. In the divisional round game against Detroit when they scored a hundred points. and that made a lot of people, I feel like, overestimate them last year.

When they don't, I just think player for player, if you look at the roster, normally coach, if it's an old team, it's because it's a bunch of players who previously were great or just aged out of their prime and a team's holding on for, you know, one more run or something. The commanders went out and signed a bunch of the old guys to try to read make the defense on the fly after the NFC championship appearance because I think they kind of, again, it sounds mean, but tricked themselves into thinking they were

closer and they necessarily were. I think there's a lot of ways that season two years ago go where it's like, Jayden's awesome. We won nine games, just barely missed the playoffs. It's going to be a slow build. And maybe they're actually better positioned than what they did, which was react to the 11 wins, the MC championship game of, let's just go for it, go for it.

I just don't, I don't love their running game. I don't love their offensive line. And so that's even, that's not even mentioning my whatever injury concerns I have about Jay. Seven and a half seems low, though, Danny. The division's good. Cowboys are good, Eagles are good, and I'm a Jackson Duck guy. So it feels like a last place team in and under to me. KW, do you, you would agree with this.

They are way more likely to finish in last than in first. Yeah, but I've got my eyes peeled for the surprise team. Someone's got to be the no one saw them coming except me team. And right now we're in a little, it's again, it's not predictions week, but right now we are just kind of running back like, hey, what happened last year? Plus we added a good player, which means we'll be better. Hey, what happened last year, but we lost somebody will be a little bit worse. There's got to be a team that defies expectations and really pops and surprises everybody. I just think it's so interesting that we did.

discount Caleb's first year and now we're discounting Jaden's first year and last year was more like what Jaden should be and last year is more like what Caleb should be. I mean, they both put film. Real live wins. Real live production, real live numbers on the books. I think Jaden, I think in games, NFL games that Jaden plays, he'll be good. I think that my worry is about how often those games will be. And I think Caleb's had a huge advantage from a coaching person. perspective over him. I think Drake's had a big advantage. Tyrone Williams, coming up next. Offensive coaching. At Desjardin Insurance, we know that when you own a nail salon, everything needs to be perfect from tip to toe. That's why our agents go the extra mile to understand your business

and provide tailored solutions for all its unique needs. You put your heart into your company, so we put our heart into making sure it's protected. Get insurance that's really big on care. Find an agent today at Dejardin.com slash business coverage. Welcome back to first things first. Rams open up the season in Australia against the 49ers.

Joining us now, Kyron Williams. Kairn, thanks for joining us. Can we just address the elephant in the room? What is going on with Aaron Donald? We here he is coming back. He's making a documentary. He had to borrow some pads so they had to put him on the list. He's doing the cone drill.

He's moving fast. Is he coming back or not? You know, I can't really say. You know, I've seen the videos that you, everybody has seen from the internet. That's the only way I've seen Aaron Donald. But, you know, I'm going off what Coach McVeigh is the last thing he said. And I heard that he's trending like an upwards arrow.

So whatever that may mean in terms of him coming back or him not coming back, you know, I think that the viewer can take what, you know, I guess what was given from Coach McVeigh. and, you know, we hope that we get AD back, but, you know, we're going to continue to keep working as if, you know, he's not going to be here, and we're going to continue to keep just being the dogs that we are. One more Aaron Donald question, because we're showing highlights. And listen, Aaron Donald might be the greatest defensive player of all time.

He's going to be a first ballot Hall of Fame whenever he's eligible. Also, most of the highlights we just showed were when you were still at Notre Dame, he's been out of the league for two years. Just as a football player, just Aaron, you know, aside from him, it, how difficult do you think it would be to not, even if you're still in great shape, to not play a game for a couple years, to then come back and be an impactful player? I think it would be hard just for anybody, no matter who you are. But I think with Aaron Donald and the way that he always has been throughout his career,

his work hasn't changed not one bit since he retired. You know, I'm sure he's still in the wait room. I'm sure he's still getting on the field each and every single day to continue just to feel good about himself. You know, as a competitor of the nature that he is, man, just getting up every day and going to work to do something when you're not, like, actually playing. I'm sure that's what he felt. And so I don't think he ever dropped off or stopped working out or stopped doing what, you know, Aaron Donald does when he did retire. So for him to be able to come back, I think he would be able to do it in a blink of a eye.

You know, I think the person that I know he is and the player that I know he is, you know, it's not going to be hard from him to get back into, you know, what these highlights are showing. I feel like that's going to be easy for him. Kyron, even if Aaron Donald doesn't come back, you guys were the Super Bowl favorites, and then you added the best defensive player in football in Miles Garrett, and became even bigger Super Bowl favorites. How are you dealing with the overwhelming expectations on the outside of this is a Super Bowl team, a Super Bowl team, a Super Team, and anything short of a championship would be a disappointment?

Right. I think it goes to the point of, you know, this pressure that we, you know, our getting, or this pressure that is going to come upon us, it's a privilege, you know, being able to know that these are the things that we pray for, these are things that we work for, and these are things that we come to each and every single day to go do. You know, we don't go to practice just to get better or just, you know, we're practicing for real life to, we do go to practice to get better, but we don't go to practice just to, you know, check the boxes or whatnot. Like, we're going to practice, we're getting better, we're focused on what it is that we've got

to get better at, and we're dominating that. We're not coming off the field until we feel as if those things that, you know, We thought that we need to get better on and got better on. So I think just the way that we are right now, this vibe with this team, man, we got workers. These guys are going to come in and work each and every single day. Because, like I said, this pressure that's going to come throughout the season is a privilege. We've got the guys in this building that are able to live up to that pressure and execute it at the highest level. So I'm super excited.

Danny last year, Danny, where you're below me, Danny last year had the insulting opinion. I took it as an insult as a Patriots fan that you, called the NFC Championship the real Super Bowl, which I thought was gross. I did say that. That being said, it was a compliment to how dynamic the Rams are. And I wanted to show you. And how old and the Patriots were going to be. Well, how the Chiefs do, right?

And how good Seattle was. Clearly the correct opinion. I wanted to show, Karen, two highlights of yourself. So that just blew my mind. This is against the Ravens. This play right here, it's a fourth and two. So Stafford drops back and hits you with. the 30-yard catch.

Yeah. The following play is a three-yard touchdown run right up the middle to you again. Yeah. Can you describe sort of the versatility and the uniqueness of the offense and your role in it where you're catching 30-yard bombs and then running it straight up the gut on the very next play?

I think that's just kudos. to, you know, the coaches and the type of plays that we have to be able to execute or be able to put players like myself in, you know, situations to be able to go win. You know, I think this is, this obviously a scramble drill. This is something that we work each and every single week on. And, you know, for me, just to be able to go feel like I can go make a play, you know, when I felt that defender kind of, you know, go lag on, go lag in a moment. That's kind of when I slipped him and got behind them. But, you know, I think Matthew being able to trust who I am from the work that I put in and practice that he sees that, you know, I'm going to give my guy a chance. You know, I shout out

to Matthew for that, but I think also, too, it goes into who I am as a player. You know, I kind of trying to hold myself as a running back that can do it all, that can run, that can pass and that can, you know, block. And so these are just examples of, you know, me being able to, you know, affect the game in many different ways and not just being able to, you know, run with the ball in my hands. I can catch it and I can block as well. So, you know, shout out to all the old linemen, my tight ends, you know, the receivers and the coaches and the quarterback for doing what they got to do, but entrusting to me. But this is this is something I kind of key myself. try to key myself in on just being able to do all three faces as a running bank.

I want to talk to you about a little bit about your personal journey in the league because we have it on the bottom line. Three straight 1100 yard plus seasons and 10 plus rushing touchdown seasons. But at the very beginning of your career, I would imagine there were some real anxiety or trepidation. If I'm not mistaken in your first off season, did you break your foot? Before your first game ever played, suffered an injury.

And then the opening kickoff of your first game in the NFL, you get a high ankle spray and they have to put you on the IR. This is four years ago. It's also a time when everyone's like, yeah, running backs, get them anywhere. No need to pay them. You can find him anywhere. You're not a first round pick, those different things. And that was, you know, the opening weeks and months of your career,

did you have moments where you're like, I might not get to have a career? Yeah, 1,000% like, um, I just, so my first injury happened at the beginning of OTA. So this is right when we reported, you know, after rookie year, after my first year I got drafted in 2020. We reported, um, April, let's say, end of April. By, by May, I was on, I was already on IR. You know, I was on the PUP because I had broken my fifth motor to Tulsa in practice with no pads on. And I was literally just cutting and my foot broke. And so like, that was my first real moment of adversity, I guess, in the league.

You know, I've gone through adversity my whole life. But this is, you know, I finally got to where I wanted to be in the NFL, and this is more adversity. So this is just another snapshot of, you know, me being able to bounce back from something that wasn't going to hold me back. And so once I came back from my foot injury, like you said, in the first game, that's when my ankle and got my high ankle sprain. So now I'm really on the I yard throughout the whole season.

And now it's really difficult for me. You know, it's difficult for me because I love this game so much. There's nothing else I'd rather be doing than being out there and playing ball. And so when I wasn't having that opportunity to do that, I had to make two choices. You know, I had to either, you know, allow this situation to make me or allow it to break me. And that's when I made that choice. Like, man, I'm going to be so much better because of the situation. And I'm super happy that, you know, God has placed this upon me so that I can work through something that is hard.

You know, that's exactly what I did. And the year after that, that's when, you know, I went all pro and on pro bowl. And so for me, I think that was my, like, initial calling into the league. Like, man, if you're, this is what you want, you know, the Lord is going to test you. and Laura's going to put you through the things that you might not think that you're able to get out of, but if you keep working hard and trusting that you will, and you know, that's what the rest is history. Well, and that then leads me to the, you know, the more modern part of your career. Like you said, you're all pro, pro bowler, consistently productive, and, you know,

you were kind of the beginning of the wave of all of a sudden people valuing running backs again. You get a new deal. Kenneth Walker gets big money with the Chiefs. We just saw the deals that Jamir Gibbs and Bijan Ra, Robinson got. Does it feel to you like the league has swung maybe back a little bit to where it once was to where people are putting money behind and truly valuing your position? Easily. You know, I think you can see it throughout the last couple of weeks, like you said, and even last year with James Cook and I, even started before that with Jonathan Taylor.

Like he, I think the running backs are, you know, we're all gaining our names back because we all, they're all able to impact the game in a different way. And we're impacting it in a way that, you know, it makes sense for these organizations to obviously put money back. behind these guys and myself because, you know, we play a big role in these offenses. You know, if we're able to stay ahead of the change, like, you know, rushing for four down, four yards or down, like, man, that's just allowing, you know, the coaching's job's job is easier and it allows the offensive lines job to be easier. It allows the quarterback's job to be easier.

Like, just continue to keep being efficient and being able to impact the game in many different ways like we do now in the league with these running backs, you know, it's a no-brainer that you pay us and pay these guys the things that they should be paid. Before we let you go, Kyrin, I wanted to show you another highlight, again, of you. If I did this to Miles Garrett, and he became my teammate, I would tell him about it all the time. Now, it's hard to see here. Hopefully we have a closer version. Oh, there it is.

Pretty good. Have you reminded Miles of this? I hope there's no get back. Is there a long tail to this block here? You know, there hasn't been any games. back thank God you know I'm glad that miles was on my team now and so that this doesn't happen to me but this is this is when we really started introducing the chipping like this is really really this is really kudos to miles for being such a great player that you know I have to stay in to be

able to slow the rush down to be able to get the play off you know so this was like the really first game that we introduced to chipping and whatnot and so now the the league is on notice about this now you know I wish they I wish they would rush up the rush up the field like this right now The same thing will happen, you know. So, but this is, no, there's been no bad blood. Miles did come up to me and say, like, don't you think I forgot about what happened a couple years ago. I told him exactly what I told you guys. Like, man, I was just playing hard.

Don't get that to me. Well, Kyrn, thank you very much. Best of luck this year. We'll be pulling for you. So I appreciate you guys. Have a good one. Right on. Thanks, guys, Kire.

More First Things First after the break. Welcome to First Overtime. We don't pound the table for overtime. No. Spent a few months. Today, no. Are you ready to expect fireworks from the Dallas Cowboys?

With their freshly newly signed Quentin Williams, the highest paid D-Lineman ever. It's going to help the fireworks. Yeah. Excellent. Meanwhile, how dangerous is a motivated Joe Burrow? You know, was motivation the issue? Maybe.

I mean, he did talk about losing his love of the game. Wow. That's a good point now. Do you say that? Of course. He's, it's a good point. I've spent a lot of time thinking about this. We knew we were going to talk about this seven hours ago. You think he's going to be more dangerous now?

Well, I'm saving that for the segment. What, five and three last year? Yeah, that is true. Five and five, two years before, nine and eight, the year everybody loved. And finally, how high is Caleb ceiling? Can he get to 60% completion? Nobody cares about that, but you.

Well, that was good. That was a good one? That was, it was, it was, the, 18 hours after that throw is the only time Kevin Wilde has ever... I realize I'm no fan of the spectacular. But you were in the day after. The day after you were like, I don't know what to say. It was amazing.

But then I realized I'm just no... I'm not a fan of this spectacular. He spent the morning that day watching Drake May just drop the ball on the ground. You know what I drove past the other day? Towards a victory and then... Parkins, I dropped my son off at camp. It was driving home. World's largest kaleidoscope.

Cool. Drove right past it. Not a fan of the spectacular. Not your best analogy. That's not an analogy. It's true story. Metaphor. Nope, just true story.

Anecdote. Antiquette. Head to Philadelphia another year. Another offensive coordinator for Jalen Hertz. Nick Siriani had this to say about Hertz's partnership. Sean Mannion, take a listen. Jalen's a very accurate passer. And you're seeing that continuing

to shine. Just some of the new things that, you know, with different footworks that he that he has to do is particularly under center. You know, you're just seeing the growth of him daily within this offense and getting more and more comfortable. And you're seeing that on the field. And, you know, and so I've, yeah, I think Jalen's having a great camp and look forward to continuing that. Great. The bounce back season for Jalen Hertz and the Eagles. Do you have a coin I can flip? Because it's 50-50. Yeah, man. My lean is no because they lost A.J. Brown, but it's another new coordinator and another new system. And sometimes if you get that offense to be productive and achieve to the level of their talent or overachieve with Jalen Hertz, you're like Shane Steichen and Kellynne Moore and you get head coaching jobs out of it. Or you underachieve, but because they've all been paid so much money and Howie Roseman's great and Nick Siriani keeps winning games in the aggregate, but he's he's not the play caller, the play caller gets fired.

I don't know if Sean Mannion is going to be good, and if this is going to be one of the play callers that is good or bad. Well, it's seeing growth. Okay, it's a lovely quote for August. I don't actually know. I tend to think that Jalen Hertz is an exceptional leader, a great gamer, a great runner, and a mediocre thrower of the football who has been elevated

by great offensive line play and skill position. He's no Justin Herbert. We all know it. He's definitely not Justin Herbert as a quarterback talent. He is not. I think I'm okay with that. I don't know if you were trying to make that like a disc track. I was like,

no, I try to just be fair. I think that's what Jalen Hertz is. And he has no guaranteed money, you know, beyond this year. So I think it is a prove it year for Jalen Hertz. And I think it is a literal coin flip on whether or not they will be investing in him

much into the future. Oh, my goodness. Yeah. You got the turn at the end there. No, is that not? Is that not all just like objectively? No, I mean, well, listen. It's all on the record, really.

They had that, that ESPN story that came out right after the season that was pretty clearly sourced by people around the team about, you know, there's, he won the breakup with A.J. Brown. He doesn't have the guaranteed money. Like, that's all out there. He's an, given his resume, he is an oddly polarizing player seemingly within and outside the team. I do think that. part's true. Like I, those ESPN articles were very pointed in multiple sources of people within the

organization that put more blame on the dysfunction between he and AJ on jail and then I think the outside media did. When the outside media was, you know, hammering AJ Brown. It seemed like within the building, there were some people like, ah, AJ's saying what a lot of people were thinking, even if he was saying it in a not the most productive way via Twitch streams and things like that. I understand Danny's point about the coin flip

because I have said that I think this team has, it's the only team in the league that I think best record in the NFL and coach fired during the season. Both things are on the board for. Like I, and I think

14 wins is absolutely on the board and I think seven. and 10 and feeling like, all right, we've got to kind of reboot this a bit as on the board. I think you're a year premature on the Jalen Hertz hot seat piece of it. I think Suryani comes into this year hot seat-ish. I think Hertz would have to have a bad season for then it to be a discussion around this time next year. Like I see almost no scenario where Jalen isn't their quarterback a year from now.

Do you see a scenario where they draft a quarterback in the first round? Traded A.J. Brown picked up the extra capital, doesn't have the big money. Howie Roseman's aggressive. They move on quick and quickly. I'm not saying he's necessarily off the team, but that's a huge piece of this story for this team this year. I mean, their history says, you know, that if there's a quarterback they love that falls to I mean, I guess I'm not going to say that's 0%. But I actually, I'm one of the, and I don't

know where KW is on this part. Because I know he likes Jalen Hertz. I know he has cooled on Nick Siriani. You know what? The guy has won as many games John Madden. Percentage wise. Yeah.

But I think I'm downshifting that a little bit. A little bit. A little bit. Modern day John Madden. Yeah. You didn't even, I don't even think he even liked the little press conference clip we just saw. Some of the marketing around personal style decisions that he makes. I'm not a huge fan.

But where I was saying, I don't know where you stand on is, I think losing A.J. Brown will be addition by subtraction. I think it will be good for Jalen Hertz. I think it will streamline even if he has one less guy that can just go out and beat man coverage. I think it

allows him to take even more further authority over the offense, which I think will, there will be enough benefit from that to deal with the talent drop-off. That's what I was going to ask you, because I know you obviously think A.J. is going to be great. Like, do you think that the A.J. Brown trade is going to end up being a win-win? Or do you think the Eagles, in the short term, until they get that draft pick, it's just a straight loss for that?

I still think it's win-win. And I think it's a little bit of next man up. I think it's a little bit of, hey, we do have a Heisman trophy winning wide receiver one. Maybe we can get more out of Devante Smith. And to your 50-50 comment, it's like, ah, maybe he'll bounce back. Maybe he won't. All right. He also is 50-50 on going to the Super Bowl in the last four years, right?

Do I have that right? Yeah. He goes and he takes a year off. Then he goes and then he takes a year off. So theoretically, he should go 50-50. Guys never missed the playoffs as a starter. So part of me, the devil on my shoulder, says, you know what? You want to get rid of Jalen Hertz in Philadelphia? Do it.

Find out if the grass is greener on the other side, because I think you guys are in for a rude awakening where, oh, we got rid of Carson Wentz and look what. We got Jalen Hertz. Jalen Hertz is a special individual. I don't think you can move on from Jalen Hertz and just sub in a quarterback. You'll be on the, well, you'll be looking for a championship. quarterback. Like, oh, hey, and then a few years from now, like, oh, remember when we just gave up on the guy who brought us to two Super Bowls? The counterpoint to that would be Carson Wentz was going to win an MVP, got hurt. The backup came in, Nick Foles, and

won the Super Bowl, and then they went to Jalen Hertz, and they have Howie Roseman, who's considered maybe the best drafter in the NFL, an evaluator of talent. If he says, it's time to move on from Jalen Hertz because I can find someone better. We'd love it. A part of me would like to see it. A part of me would like to see it. See Jalen Hurts somewhere else. I mean a little bit. I just don't like constantly flirting with

this. I just find it disrespectful to a Super Bowl MVP. It is definitely true that he is the only Super Bowl winning quarterback that wasn't a backup. Like Nick Foles is a separate kind of like that guy was a

backup who got put in one Super Bowl. who does not get the Super Bowl champion runway. Yeah. You know, like the... Like Joe... I mean, I hate to say that you keep banging on Joe Burrow, but Joe Burrow went to a Super Bowl and lost, and he's still on that runway.

I think Drake May will get a little bit of a runway. And if you're like, oh, he did go to his Super Bowl. This guy went to the Super Bowl, played great, lost. Immediately took a year off, immediately went back. one played great and now it's like I don't know one of the reasons we could talk maybe I don't know

I never know if we're talking about the Eagles way too much or not even close to enough is because I do think it is such there is you can make such a great case the pro Jalen Hertz case is basically bulletproof

and the anti Jalen Hertz case just has the most overwhelming circumstantial evidence you've ever seen. Yeah. But no, there's, you know, no murder weapon. It's like, yeah, and what happened right after the win to the Super Bowl? What do we take all that year? Oh, yeah, the supernatural funk year.

Yeah. And then the, and then when they did win the Super Bowl, the wide receiver was reading a book, and then the next year it got even weirder, and then none of his teammates seem to disavow it. And what does the league think of him? Well, in all these polls, he's like 15, 16, 7. But again, none of it is in the data. You know what I mean? He walks off the field with his head held high from winning another game.

But even then, in the midst of all of it, within the data, it's like, yeah, but three of the games last year, we came in Monday and was like, was that the worst offense we've ever seen for a half of football? Look, that part's not great. Yeah, I know. That's the part to me that it's like if you watch it, game in and game. It's weird. And it is not that impressive for him individually. The team, the results and all of it. But that is why football is a team.

Great offensive line. Great running back. Great tight end. Great receivers. Like, he's got a lot around him. Great defense. And by the way, I think this is, and we've got to move on. I'm not saying this is like the end of their window because Howard Roseman is great.

But they have put more than any team in history on the cap credit card via the void years. and Lane Johnson just said basically, this is my swan song. He's one of the greatest players ever for that franchise in a future Hall of Famer. And, you know, Sequin's window, we'll see how long it extends. There's a lot of reasons that you feel like this 20-26 team is probably the best team they're going to have over the next couple years, next two or three years.

So there is sneaky pressure there as well. Head to L.A. where Mike McDaniel kicks off his first year, calling the charges offense. Here he is on Justin Herbert, Danny. Your game will raise if you have to do less. If, you know, maybe I'm a little more in charge of, you know, getting people open. You're, you know, you're not passing 60% of the time. You're closer to 50-50. You know, pass rushers get paid too and it's hard to take 150 hits and stay upright to his credit he has. What is success for Justin Herbert this year? He has to win playoff games.

Plural. Plural. Okay. Yeah. Listen, I think he is an MVP talent. Call that my eye test or a preconceived bias, whatever you want to hang on me. I think he is. But you mentioned those polls that the GMs and the coaches and the scouts do.

They more align with me than with you. They all have him top seven, top eight, despite not at all having the resume. He's 0 and 3 winless in the playoffs and has been bad in those games. They seem to look at it as most yards to start a career through six years. It's Justin Herbert. Most touchdowns as a rookie. It's Justin Herbert. A 5,000 yards seat.

Justin Herbert. Like, they look at it a guy who has. Was awesome four years ago. No one denying it. His year, too, was unbelievable. And circumstances around him that are not in his control, like two of your four highest paid players who are both tackles getting hurt in the same year and multiple coaching changes and multiple systems and all of that has been on him.

At some point, obviously, you need to win. I don't shy away from that. I just do not blame him for sure, the playoff performances is definitely on him and last year was terrible. But I do think that he ultimately needs to win and will win. I think about him in the same way that I think about Josh Allen in terms of inevitability at the position. I will be shocked if Justin Herbert at some point is not an MVP and a Super Bowl champion. Wow. What?

What? How many Super Bowls are you given? I mean, you already locked in two. Herbert, Alvin, and Caleb are going to, yeah, of course. Of course. So Lamar's stone out. Yeah. And Patrick might be done winning. I mean, listen, maybe.

Forget poor Drake May. These are 10-year projections that we're talking about here. Yeah, these are wildly talented guys. Okay. But listen, you argue Josh Allen is, Josh Allen literally has, by a lot, the most wins ever by a quarterback in the playoffs without making a Super Bowl. He has eight. The next most is five. Or without winning a Super Bowl.

Yeah, I think that's what it is. Regardless, one of the two. Herbert's tied for Deadlast. Because he's zero. Yeah, yeah. He's with everybody. I didn't even need Troy to. Thank you.

And so I, but I'm glad you said multiple playoff wins. the way he is discussed, I would think the answer is they have to make the Super Bowl. Right? He's got the fourth best MVP odds. His offensive line is back. Everybody loves Harbaugh. Mike McDaniel's there. The Chiefs aren't even any good anymore.

No one believes in Bo Nicks. All of these things are in line for them because if he doesn't make the Super Bowl, someone in the AFC is going to. Drake Mays made it. Obviously, Joe Burroughs made it. Patrick's made five of them. I don't, you know, if we're taking those guys, you know, Josh Allen is already ahead of him in line.

Maybe he, you know, submits it. I, yeah, I mean, I, so you're putting it aFC championship game appearance? Yeah. Anything shy of it? Okay, like, yeah, I think that is. I don't shy away from, like, expectations and pressure on guys who I think are excellent.

Yeah. No, you don't, you don't, you don't, you don't, shy away from it, but it was the problem for me with some of the continued faith in Herbert is he goes

into these playoff games with all of these things that end up being excuses, being known quantities, and people believe he's going to be successful by people I mean you. And then after they lose

because either he threw more interceptions in that game than he did all year, or in the next game he is so terrified of throwing an interception. He somehow loses to CJ. Was it C.J. Stroud? Was it the Texans? Yeah. The, no, it was the Patriots.

This year was the Patriots. It was CJ Stroud the year before. He's just so gun-shy on throwing the ball. And then after the fact, we're like, well, he didn't, his tackles were out. But we knew they were out going into that game and thought they could win. The previous year, we knew how good the Texans defense was going into the game and we thought they could win. And so I, the reason I have so little faith that it's happening is I do think he is right now the number one draft pick for a guy who gets tight in big spots. So why is that all of a sudden going to flip a switch because Mike McDaniel has fancy plays?

I don't think that's going to happen. But I agree with you that. I think the fancy plays could lose it. you up a little bit. I hand in the ball off. Scheme guys are. The problem, I mean, again, they just, this is new information to me,

the Mike McDaniel thing, the idea that they brought in Mike McDaniel because they're now going to run the ball more, that they got rid of Greg Roman because he was throwing it too much. Like that's not, like that's not what it is. They brought in Mike McDaniel because I think they're going to scheme guys open, but ask

Justin Herbert to be Justin Herbert. I'm, I will believe it when I see it. But I agree with you. I think that a FC championship game at a minimum given how he is discussed, how everyone says better than Jalen Hertz, the whole thing. I agree. Nothing but rave reviews in Dallas so far for this offense. Here's Cidie Lamb with a little iron sharpens iron compliment for the defense. It's fire, man. I embrace it. It was good to see our defense come out with that type

of energy, that type of fire, that type of aggression early on. For us as an offense, it leaves us no choice. But to bow down, or fight back and get on top. And I know one thing about us. We won't bow down to anybody. Wow. That's to Todd Archer of ESPN. We're expecting fireworks from the Cowboys offense this year.

Yes, of course. I mean, it's the favorite, if not, one of the favorites to be the number one offense in the NFL? Like, what's the weak point of the offense? There are question marks at left tackle right now, but there are candidates in-house to fill that. We just don't know exactly what it's going to be. They've invested a ton on the offensive line in terms of young draft picks, who they might be guard, center guard, might be the best in the NFL.

Javante Williams was. Wow. I wish Brew was here. Yeah. Wait, 1,200 yards last year, top wide receiver duo in the NFL. And a ton of continuity. Bring Schottenheimer back. No scheme questions.

And, Dak, it's an amazing accomplishment. And I said this while you guys were gone for as much, you know, criticism that we get on these types of shows for, like, Like, when in doubt, talk cowboys and hype and Jerry Jones quotes and the attention. They are, he still is underrated. Like, Dak Prescott is still an underrated entity. If you look at the last five years when they play, who scores the most points. Dax's number one. That's cool, stat.

Just number. It's not this segment. Sorry. But it is cool. It just, they're going to score. There's no reason to, I mean, he had 600 pass attempts last year. So would they be you the, the. I was trying to think when you said it, like if we were drafting just number one offense draft.

Them, the Rams. Or like, would Buffalo, and the Rams. Or, like, would Buffalo, you're putting on there? Well, Buffalo historically is one of the highest scoring offenses every year. And one of some of it for like the pure points per game and passing volume stuff is you don't want to have too good of a defense. Yeah. Like, like Sinci, if they're healthy would be in that conversation if the defense is bad. The Rams, the bills, the bears, the Jaguars.

Yeah, I wouldn't, the, I, yes, my answer is obviously yes. I'm kind of thinking past this a bit because I'm trying to figure, I'm thinking a lot about predictions week. You got thinking a lot of out predictions. And I'm trying to anticipate other people's predictions. It's not how predictions week goes. I play a game within myself. I, you know, try to play games.

But you need to be right. You can't outthink. It's not poker. You don't have to worry about what I'm holding, you know. I do. Just believe in yourself. I do. And I'm already dead certain

Brew is picking the Cowboys, at the very least, to win the NFC East, maybe more. He's more and more and more complimentary photoshopps of Brew dressed as a cowboy, and I think he might pick him to go all the way. I feel like you might be picking the Cowboys

to win that division, unless you're Jackson Dart love, because you don't believe, you think AJ Brown's departure hurt the Eagles. You're not a jail and hurts guy. You love the Cowboys office. offense.

Nick, I don't care how good you get at poker, you will never be able to read me at the poker table. You're not going to know my prediction week, Tom, until we're on the air for predictions. I do believe they are that if DAC's healthy, they're going to have the floor of like the number six offense in football, which is why if the defense, and again, they just re-signed Quinn and Williams, if the defense has the type of upgrade that we think it's going to have, there's no reason to think the Cowboys can't be right back at 12 wins, which 12 wins. which 12 wins, I believe, should be enough to win that division. Even with Jackson Dart giving them hell for two games. Jackson Dart's tough, man. Caleb going to the Super Bowl. Danny picks the entire Bears schedule coming up.

Are you really doing? Yeah. Dub Bears. Yeah, I'm interested in that. Thank you. Welcome back to the OT hanging out with coachman Genie. Let's go to Philly, where Kay Adams sat down with Sequin Barkley. You might remember cover of Madden last year.

Saquan, of course, then Caleb. This year, he was asked about the Madden Brotherhood. And you know what? He's just joining the chorus coach of guys who are pretty complimentary of Caleb Williams. Take a listen. I think he's a great player. I don't think I know he's a great player. I think it can get scary.

He reaches the level where I think he can get to. Hopefully it's not anytime soon because he's on the NFC. But it's cool. What he was able to do in the playoffs and the plays that he was able to make throughout the season. Simple question. How high is Caleb's ceiling? Well, I know how high you think Caleb's ceiling is. That's right.

And when he was coming out and he was on Mahomes Mountain before he was even a member of the NFL, I thought it was a little bit of a reach at that point. But when you watch the college tape, you see the wild place. And there were plenty of them and they were over the course of his career. But then you see the sacks, the unnecessary sacks. You see the layups that he misses. You see the decision-making. sometimes where you just doesn't make sense and to some degree that's what we saw

throughout his rookie career where you saw enough of those plays to think okay this could be special and then you see a bunch of the other plays where you can't figure out how he got to the point that he got to and the sack numbers is rookie year those were off the charts over 10 percent and I give him a ton of credit and Ben Johnson a ton of credit for getting that number down. And I think that's huge. And you saw what he could do in the fourth quarter. But it's still about making the easy plays easy. I agree with all of that. I guess I thought we would maybe have a little bit more agreement. Like, because ceiling talk is just what's the ceiling? Like like the because you would agree, I think that if you display an ability in times, fourth quarter,

comebacks, moments, like if you can make this throw and you can have to. And you can have to, you. the highlight reel that Caleb Williams has, that displays a very high ceiling if you can clean up the other stuff. And I guess my thought is if you can do the 10 out of 10 difficulty stuff with time in the NFL, with time with great coaching, it's not just Caleb's second year with Ben Johnson, it's Romadunzee's second year with him, Luther Burden's second year with him, Colston Loveland's second year with him for Loveland and Burden. It's also just their second year in the league. They were rookies last year. Why wouldn't the ceiling be commensurate? with best player in football, MVP, and all of that stuff.

Because I feel like his physical, natural talent is clearly in that 99th percentile. And I agree with you. He has to clean up the easy stuff, but there's no reason that I would believe that he can't. Yeah, but greatness does come with consistency. And even looking at, I went back and looked at how long it took him to throw the ball last year. And with cleaning up the sacks. And if you take a look at it, he held the ball longer than anybody in terms of, of time to throw. So it was him, followed by Purdy, McCarthy, Lamar, and Ward. And, you know,

Lamar's number is fairly significantly less than Caleb's number. But that group, McCarthy didn't have a great season, Ward didn't have a great season, and typically that goes to processing and expect the processing to be quicker. And now if you take a look at some of the all-time greats in terms of how quickly they got rid of the ball, there's Caleb at 320. Mahomes, you know, significantly lower, Brady's significant lower, a breeze significantly lower, and that's kind of the ceiling that you're hoping to get to, right?

You're hoping to get to the greatest. Okay, so it is very interesting data. I think Caleb will always be high, though. But I don't think it's all processing. Some of it is escapability and an ability to evade a rusher and hang out back there and throw the ball, like extending plays.

Like he's not going to ever be Brady or Breeze with that number. He might be able to get to where Mahomes is, but he'll never be until he's 35 maybe. He's not going to be 2.5 seconds snap to throw. Like, wouldn't that be taking away some of the magic and the extending plays? But even getting Mahomes would be significantly more because that's over the course of the season. That's a lot of throws that we're talking about to get to that number. And yet, being able to extend plays is fantastic. But it goes back to, are you doing the easy?

things about. Are you taking the layoffs? Are you taking the quit? Or are you always trying to make sure it's a 15, 20, 30 yard completion as opposed to, hey, let me hit the slant, let me hit the checkdown, whatever those, you know, those decisions are as opposed to every play has to be something special? So I think we are actually closer on this than I maybe felt at the beginning. Like I agree with all of that. Like I agree that the processing, you want it to get faster. Reports are that it has. Ben Johnson did this whole big thing. I'm like, last year at this time, we were doing everything about pre-snap, identifying the coverage, sending the guy in motion, getting the play call out with enough time left on the play clock.

Now everything we're talking about is post-snap, like, because he's got all of that stuff down. Like, I'm pretty sure from what I've heard from guys I know on that team and around that team, that he is like fully bought into Ben Johnson, checking the boxes. Ben Johnson keeps saying that the goal is 70% completion percentage, which surprises me because I just feel like we have more advanced stats to kind of gauge that stuff. But he's like, no, that's the threshold that we're going to shoot to get to. So they know they need to hit the layups more. They just don't want to take away his ability to be creative

and go for the big play and be Superman when it calls for it. No, you don't want to do that. And to some degree, Mahomes was more Superman than he should have been early on. But he has continued to develop the second pitch. He's continued to. And he's realistic about the fact that you're, not going to be able to keep moving around like he does as time moves on. He wants his career, I'm sure, to be as long as, maybe not as long as Tom Brady's, but somewhere

in that area. And each year that you get older, it's harder and harder to be that guy. So you've got to continually develop in the pocket. And it's going to be similar with Caleb. All these things are fantastic things that he can do. But just show us you can do the mundane, easy things and allow everybody else to play at a high level. You'll see it this year.

I wanted to find common ground there because I don't think we're going to agree on this one. Let's stay in Chicago and we're going to play a little game. Their over under is set at nine and a half wins. This is the Bears schedule. Last year, they were 11 and 6. Of course, they are a top regression candidate. Every show in America is talking about it. Ben Johnson's talking about it.

Liam Cohen is talking about it. Coach, I'm not buying the regression narrative. That does not surprise me. So I'm going to take you through the schedule. This was like the impetus of the famous Chris. Farley Superfan sketch back in the day. Week one, win. So here we go.

Let's put up the first third of the schedule, please. Win, win, win, win. Now, you might say I'm being a homer. And it's a little fair. But come on, at Carolina, they're a big favorite. When? Who's the quarterback for Minnesota? Why are they a big favorite at Carolina?

A big favorite? Because the line is out. Okay. Because they are a favorite in Carolina. Week two, we don't know who the quarterback is. What's the line in Carolina? I think the Bears are like four and a half point favorites on the road. Oh, it's a big road favorite.

That's a big road favorite. Week two. You can say that again. I didn't hear it. I'm sorry what it was, but two and a half. I'm hammering the bears. Week two, Vikings, we don't even know. That big line is two and a half?

That's a little less than I thought it was. That a gigantic. They beat Philly last year already saw it. Jets, maybe the worst team in football. Sorry to our boss. Week five, no Micah Parsons for that game. Massive advantage there. And then in Atlanta,

again, we don't know the quarterback. So you can pick and choose. You can pick. Where's the loss there, coach, in the first third of the schedule? Find one. Well, Philadelphia. In Chicago? In Chicago, in Philadelphia, do you think that Philadelphia is not going to have addressed

the shortcomings that they have? That's one of the things they do organizationally as good as anybody. It's Sequin going to have his down a year as he had the year before. I think the defense will be extremely good like it has been historically. So there's an opportunity. If you look at Green Bay, I know they split and then won the playoffs, but what was that another miraculous comeback? And what was their division record last year? I can't remember how they did in the division. Let's get to the next third of the schedule, if you don't mind.

6 and 0 wasn't enough. I'm going to go 7 and 0. They'll beat the Patriots, mainly because I don't want to deal with Wilds on that Monday afterwards. I will say they're not going undefeated this year, man enough to admit it. At Seattle, week 8, very tough spot. around the buys, win and a win. And then that's a really tough spot. Short week Thanksgiving at Detroit. Another Ben Johnson game back there.

He'll be very disappointed and very upset that I have that as a loss. But I think they fall in that spot. Short week on the road holiday game against Detroit. So just a three and two middle stretch of the schedule that coach. So you have them going eight and one into the buy? Yes, sir. So I looked at, I was trying to figure out exactly. Nine and one in their first time.

What the odds would be out of Vegas. I couldn't get it, but from what I gather, it's about a 2% chance that they're 8 and 1 from a Vegas perspective. But it's kind of like a 2.5 point line. I guess that's humongous. Normally when we go out to dinner, you pick up the tab.

If the bears are 8 and 1, taps on me. Let's go to the final third. Oh, I've got no chance. Yeah, well, that's what I'm at 2% chance of Danny. Yeah, exactly. You're going to be waiting a while.

If they win the Super Bowl, the next two dinners are on me. Wow. Final third is where it gets very difficult. I feel like they'll have this game scheduled to get circled with Liam Cohen and the Jaguars, given that he was talking about, everybody talking about Caleb. Can't wait for that game on Fox.

Week 14 at Miami, maybe the only team worst of the Jets this year. Back-to-back losses, I do think them in Green Bay is just going to, that's going to be 50-50 back and forth. So Packers will avenge the day lost at home in week five. Packers get them on the back end. And then I was debating having them lose to Minnesota in week 18. if the one seed was locked up, but the one seed will not be locked up at that point.

So they're going to have to win to get the first round by. Obviously, they'll go for it. 13 and 4 season for the Bears. The losses to the Packers, Bills, Seahawks, and the Lions. That's reasonable. So you feel good about the fact that they start the season 11 and 2, and then they go 2 and 2 in the final four games going into the playoffs. I'm not a realist.

That's the mark of a team that's getting better as the season's going on. They lose as many games at the end of the year as they lost through the first 13 games? Listen, I didn't make the schedule. I'm picking it based on the quality of the opponents where the games are being played. They start with three of their first four at home. They end with a tougher road slate at Buffalo in Week 15 is going to be very tough. But you're saying their opponents are tougher, but they haven't gotten better over the course of an 11-2 start? Sure they will be.

But they're going to lose 50% of their games, their last four games. You can take a 13 and 4 season and focus on the negative of the last 4. You kind of want to go into the playoffs hot, I would think. They're going in on two straight wins. I don't even know why we're playing the games. I just told you what the outcome is going 2%. 2% chance of going 8-1 and doesn't buy. 2%.

So you're telling me there's a chance. They're talking weird about Joe Burrow and Cyncy. We'll get into it next on the O-T. Thanks for hanging out with us at the O-T. Let's go to CINC where Jamar Chase says, you know what, No more Mr. Nice guy for Joe Burrow. I didn't know that was the issue. He explains, though, that it's been a different Joe Burrow at practice so far.

Take a listen. I like it when Joe's pissed. I'm not going to lie. I like him when he's like that. I like the fire that he has. You know what I'm saying? He don't always bring it out. He maybe did it once or twice since camp started,

but I like it, man. Honestly, I love the fire winning when he has it. His demeanor is just more aggressive. His face is more aggressive. The way he talk is more aggressive. And he got like a little mean mug on his face a little bit. So I kind of like when he's like that. This quote registered to me for some reason.

Because I know Jamar and Joe are really close. And Joe has said a lot of very just interesting things about not loving the game, but then going into this year, he's like, it's the most talented team we've ever had since he's been there. And like they've been in the Super Bowl. So like there's a lot of interesting quotes coming out of Bengals camp. But I didn't look at meanness or like Joe Burroughs' demeanor as being the issue. I looked at health as being the issue, right?

Like the three seasons that Joe Burrow has played full seasons, coach. 204 played 17 games. 4,900 yards, 43 touchdowns, a pass the rating of 108. 2022, played 16 games. 4,500 yards, 35 touchdowns of pass a rating of basically 101. 2021, 16 games, 4,600 yards, 34 touchdowns, a rating back up to 108. I don't think it's meanness.

Isn't it just if Joe Burrow, Burrough's healthy, they're going to be good, and if Joe, their offense is going to be good, and if Joe Burrow is not, they're going to struggle. Yeah, from a talent perspective with Joe, when he's on the field, he's got a chance to light anybody up, and then especially with the offensive weapons that he has. And to some degree, his cool personality or his consistent, what seems like could come off as laid back is probably a really good thing, because the last thing you want is the quarterback too far up or too far down.

But to your point, over the last three years, he's 19 and 16 as a starter. So he's barely above 500. He missed the 16 games over the last three years. His last full season starting, they began the season at 0 and 3. Then during the middle of the season, they went 4 and 5. And during weeks 8 through 12, and they finished the last 5 games with the winning streak, but missed the playoffs. So as good as he is when he's out there, it hasn't really trained. translated into the amount of wins that you would expect, especially the last full season where

numbers were great, but couldn't get started early, struggled in the middle, got hot late, but wasn't enough. Well, this is like an age-old debate, I think, between people who are maybe a little bit more, I don't even know if, like, analytically inclined is the right way to put it, but, like, the simple way to say is, wins are not a QB stat. I feel like a lot of maybe coaches. coaches, people. No, the only thing that matters is winning. And I, of course, in terms of the results of that is the objective of the game on a Sunday. But when I try to, like, evaluate an individual player, like, when I pulled Burroughs numbers,

I didn't even look to the win-loss record. And maybe that speaks to my own biases. But I'm like, if Joe Burrow, like, those numbers that you cited, that's not really because of Joe Burrow. Like 19 and 16 when he plays, if I show you 4,900 yards, 43 touchdowns, 108 pass a rating, like he wasn't the problem. He wasn't the reason they were losing. The reason they were losing was because of the defense and how the team is constructed

and where they allocated their resources and all that. Like Joe Burrow has not been the problem when he plays to me. His problem has been that he doesn't play enough. It's interesting because when you look at great quarterbacks and franchise quarterbacks, typically they elevate the organization. And the organization is in the mix year after year for a championship as long as that guy is there.

And we see it now. We see it with Patrick Mahomes. We talk about Buffalo all the time. Lamar, he gives Baltimore a chance every year. And, yeah, Joe has missed a lot of games, but you would expect him to, when he plays a full season, not to be 9 and 8 because of the numbers that he puts up. And you could say, hey, the defense was horrible,

but it still is complementary football. So there's ways that you can score. There's ways that you can design drives. Is this that he scores too fast argument? No, no, I'm just saying that it's a little bit of the, Matthew Stafford puzzle where as good as Matthew Stafford, I've always felt, has been, it didn't really raise up Detroit the way you thought it would. And then he goes to the Rams and things change dramatically and the narratives change. Joe Burrow, he had the one, you know,

Super Bowl year where he brings him there, but it's not been anywhere near as consistent as I thought it would be. I think, listen, I think that is objectively true because he did transform the franchise. I would say, like, the bank. Bengals were the Bungles before they got Joe Burrow. They got Joe Burrow, and a couple of years later, they were in the Super Bowl, and they've been a consistently great offense ever since whenever he's played. They are the AFC version of the Cowboys, in that the Cowboys offense is excellent. Their defense really let them down.

They threw a ton of resources at the defensive side of the ball, both through the draft and through additions. We'll see if it works. The Bengals threw resources in free agency at the draft, some older players, but we'll see if it works. Because if they can be the 20th ranked defense with a Joe Burrow healthy season and a top five offense,

they'll probably be a pretty good team. Where my frustration comes in with Cincinnati is when you do have a great quarterback and when you have to pay him the way you pay Joe Burrow, typically you're putting resources into the defense. You're putting resources other places because he's going to make the receiving core better by virtue of who he is.

He's going to make the running game better by the fact that everybody has to play seven in the box. That's true. We haven't seen Burrow without a chase and Higgins. He's got, yeah, the amount of money and talent they've spent on wide receivers to support a really, really talented guy is not the typical approach to building a championship team over time with a franchise quarterback. It's funny too because the knock was they don't pay anybody. Then they paid the guys for Burrow and said, well, what about your defense? Yeah.

And it's a zero-sum game. You can't pay everybody. Well, they traded for Dexter Lawrence, so big things happening potentially if Joe Burrow can be healthy. I'm going to love this story. Coach probably not as much, but I think the Raiders might be back. Not in a good football team way, but in a Raiders sort of way, like an Al Davis sort of way. All right, welcome back to the OT. Let's go to Vegas.

Raiders culture already being established. Kirk Cousins and Max Crosby got into it. You love that, right? Your starting quarterback and your top plate defensive player. Head coach Clint Kubiak held them out of practice Saturday. for violating team rules. Let's listen to the coach on the incident. That's training camp.

You know, those are those two leaders of our team going at it. So that is part of camp. Obviously, you fight in the game, you throw a punch in the game, especially then you're out of the game. So we got to be smart, treat it like a game. But then they came in today, came onto the field, tapped helmets seemed to make up. So it's very rare for a quarterback

and your most visible player, I guess short of Fernando Mendoza. Fernando Mendoza to be fighting, but these things move on fast. Do you like how Kubiak handled it? Yes and no. I think it was smart from a coaching perspective in the sense that now you can give both those guys a day off. So Crosby really probably needed a day off because he's got injury history. And then you give a day off to Kirk Cousins, which now lets you work Mendoza without anybody

in the in the world thinking, oh, this is some strange sort of rotation. So it worked out great from a Kubiak standpoint. send a message and the message benefits you by wrestling two veterans. It's pretty raider. I don't know. Just I feel like Al Davis would like it. I feel like Al Davis would like it. Because I know you don't like training camp fights and punching guys in helmets is

generally speaking, not a winning strategy. But when I saw it, I was like, of all the people Max Crosby could have chosen, he chose the old quarterback. Like that's just you don't normally see a fight. where one of the main characters is the starting quarterback at the team. You're not allowed to hit him in a pass rush drill, much less a fight. So felt a little old school. Max Crosby strikes me as being an equal opportunity fighter.

I agree. It doesn't matter who it is. He's going to fight with him if there's a problem. He has a willingness to engage. Yeah, he has a willingness to engage. If you're Kirk Cousins, it feels like one of those where you're asking everybody to hold me back. Hold me back before I do something. You know, I really want a piece of it.

Hold me back. Yeah, I don't think that he wanted any of that noise. No one's going to be surprised when Mendoza gets all these reps. You don't need to fabricate a reason. Well, it worked. Nobody's talking about the reps of that. We'll see you tomorrow on First Things First.