First Things First - Mahomes ranked top Tier-1 QB, Kevin Durant comparing LeBron to his Warriors, Caleb or Purdy?

Episode Date: August 4, 2026

(0:00) Patrick Mahomes ranked 1st QB by NFL Execs and Coaches (28:32) Kevin Durant still comparing LeBron’s 76ers to his 2016/17 Warriors (39:02) Want Caleb Williams or Brock Purdy this season? (45:53) Joe Burrow still tier 1, Josh Allen deserve to move up to 2nd on Tier 1?  (01:05:39) Jalen Hurts too low at 17th, Is Bo Nix also too low? (01:17:43) Will Jaylen Brown have to “sacrifice” on the 76ers?  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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You're richer than you think. Holy cow. I didn't realize that. I'm sorry. You were just chatting. I thought you were doing a bit. No, I thought I wish I was. You know what?

I was lost. I was lost in the song. I know what he was doing. He was setting a reminder for the second Thursday. You threw me all off. See, this is a sign. Watch party. This is a sign.

Nick redid his living room. Yeah. Looks nice. I did it for you guys for the show. Because he wants us to come over and watch football again. Games with him. Because you said we only spend. I'm done it.

It's fun. Yeah. You said the, you said the, you said the, you. You saw the videos I'm taking there. You said it was too narrow of a room. Well, yeah, you were right on top. It was tiny. It was.

And so I moved, I did a whole thing. Move the TVs from one room, put plants in there instead. Now it's in the spacious living room. Got a brand new couch just for you guys. Next Thursday. And by that, I mean, six Thursdays from now. Yeah. We will be there the day.

Second Thursday. You really going to go? I'm there at this point. Okay. That's great. We're on there. I'm not trying to do it. Take what snacks are you going to have?

He's only while you watch games. You lock in. They've had wings. He loves Mike's Hard Lemonade. No, brew, fruit, drink. Brue brings Mike's hard lemonade. Today, quarterback tiers from the athletic. Lamar dropped down.

That's how I feel. It's a tier two. But this is of all the quarterback rankings. No, the nicest thing. That's right. The other one is a lot more accurate. Meanwhile, Kevin Durant on this year's Sixers team. Are they as,

good as his Warriors teams, no, they're not. They're better. That thing really bothered. Now we're finding out how much it really bothered. Purdy and Caleb have the same exact ranking, but who's going to have the better year? Nick was stunned at how high Purdy was ranked. No, I was not.

You've never had him that high. It was very complimentary to Purdy. 11? You've never had him like 11. Yes, I have not, but I'm not stunned. I'm not. I think there's several times. eyes in there. No. No, he was,

there was what? Because Drake and John, yeah, but then they skip a number. They're tied, great. He was legit. I was so locked in on. Are you? On Drake, May. Yeah. Oh, okay. Think about that. Mr. Irrelevant and the number one pick of the generation, supposedly. I mean,

that's one way to look at it. That is one way to look at it. You're tied. Chris Broussard, Kevin Wilde, who has to go to Nick Wright's house and Nick Wright. Has to? Yes. Gets to. My dog won't bite you like your dog bit me when I just He's a good judge of character.

We started Kansas City, the athletics, Mike Sando, releasing his 2026 QB tiers at number one, a guy who was a three-time Super Bowl champion, also a guy who won six games last year. Patrick Mahomes, not unanimous this time. Only 49 of the 50 voters have him as a tier 1 QB with one defensive coordinator saying, I know no one sees this list,

but no one wants to be the one that takes the number of. one off of Patrick Malm's. He's earned that. So does Patrick Mahomes still deserve to be number one? So as we talk about this listing, I just want to make sure the audience understands it. All people do is vote tier one, two, three, four, or five. And then Sando turns it into the ranking based on the lowest number is the best. And so he obviously deserves to still be a tier one quarterback. The question we're asking is, does he still to be the number?

the most tier one quarterback. He has the best vote, the number one in the league. And my answer is twofold. The first one is about the missed opportunity for the other guys. And the answer is yes, because they couldn't capitalize. Mahomes had, and you guys were right, that the Super Bowl did puncture the Chief's invincibility. The Super Bowl lost to the Eagles,

even though it was a third straight Super Bowl trying to three-beat unprecedented. Because of the fashion in which they lost, it did have a knock-on effect, along with a lot of other things that all of a sudden made Mahomes standing potentially wobbly. And so I look at it as the rest of the top five could have last year supplanted him had they played their best or done the most possible. If Lamar, after two amazing regular seasons, had even just a fine regular season but finally got it done in the playoffs,

I think he's unanimous, you know, what Mahomes had been previously, all first-tier votes. I think that Burrough, if he had stayed healthy all year, he was tied with Mahomes a year ago with 50 tier one votes. He and Mahomes were tied for first. If he had stayed healthy and played great, finally got back to the playoffs. If Stafford, honestly, I thought he played great all year. I thought he played great in the playoffs. I think had they won the Super Bowl, he would have been a unanimous. number one, which would have supplanted Mahomes.

If he wins MVP and wins the Super Bowl. And all Josh had to do, I don't even think Josh had to win the Super Bowl. I think all Josh had to do was get there and not have moments from the playoff loss be stick out in your mind cartoonish, the one in particular that cost him a couple votes. And so the other guys didn't take advantage of the opportunity. and Mahomes' resume, which we can talk more about in a bit, does speak for itself. So yes, to me, unequivocally,

there is nobody else that you could make a real rational argument except for maybe Stafford. I would listen to Stafford. I think Stafford gets dinged because of the age that they deserve to jump him last season if they all went into last season trailing him. No, look, I agree with that. I understand it's kind of a what have you done for me lately,

element to this poll, but Mahomes, I think he's earned the benefit of the doubt. Having been to won three Super Bowls in the last seven years, been to what, three in the last four years, like, I think he's earned that benefit of the doubt, but I think this is his last year, at least for now, you know, obviously he's only 30, so you don't think he's going to fall off or has falling off. And I think this is the last year that he will have that benefit of the doubt as the best quarterback in the league without either a fantastic individual season statistically like he had earlier in his career or just keep winning and get to the, probably getting to the Super Bowl or even maybe the AFC championship, but a deep

playoff run if not a Super Bowl run. If he has that and his numbers remain kind of mediocre for him, he still could end up being number one because that's been three years running. B enemy is back as the O.C. You got a running game now with Kendall Walker the third. This to me will be the last year. He kind of gets that benefit of the doubt without playing spectacular football. I agree with you that nobody grabbed it, right?

Like Josh obviously blew it. Let's just keep it written. Not only blew his chance to pass Mahomes, but he blew his chance to get to the Super Bowl. I mean, flat out blew it, all right? Four turnovers, you know, in the game that they lost against. Bo Nicks. Bo's a good quarterback, but I'm just saying, Bo Nix.

And then Stafford is 38. And Stafford wasn't great in that game against Chicago in the playoffs. They won, but he had completed fewer than 50% of his passes, no touchdown. So he didn't exactly reach out and grab it. And obviously, Burrow, heck, was out more than half the season.

So, and Lamar missed games as well. So, yeah, I agree that Mahomes should still be number one. Before you go, can I ask you before you go, while. I just can ask you a question, bro. Do you, for you, Chris Roussard, is it possible that Mahomes has what you would consider a great

individual regular season without having great individual numbers? And where you watch the games and you feel like he's playing awesome and the numbers aren't there because I do... I think last year he has some moments like that

where it was like he's just playing really well but numbers are real. Like, numbers are real. So the year that I would like, comes to mind for me actually is the year, the never-a-doubt year, the year they lost the first game of the year to the lines. When the drops where you watched the games and Mahomes, his numbers were, it was the first pedestrian statistical season of his career. And it felt like to me he was playing as well as he did the year before. It was so easy. And a lot of that was the drug.

You could see, too, the guys were dropping passes and stuff. So, but I hear you because I thought, like I said, we talked about it. He was the MVP favorite at one point last year. His numbers weren't sky high, but they, so that's why I say if he wins, he's going to be the reason they're winning. And so, yeah, but the numbers are real too. I think what, I don't want to say saves him, he's just a great quarterback, obviously. But the fact that he did have such great numbers early in his career for several years

has allowed him to have these years where they aren't great, but you still know how fantastic. So I'll show one full screen in one video that we've been referencing. The full screen is just Patrick Mahomes last year, just to level set where he was. We're not in the teens on these, though. We're in the 20s on a lot of these. The pass-for rating is 23rd, the touchdown.

The interceptions were heavy early in the year. completion percentage, which depends on what day it is. Would you think that's important or not? I'm a huge fan of it. Okay. The video. Uh-huh. Is this about to be a video of Patrick looking like he never tours ACL?

No. I like those videos. Nope. Those are pretty impressive. Separate injury. Oh, okay. This is Rishi Rice when we were on vacation. Maybe not looking like a number one wide receiver.

problem when we're within 40 days of the start of the season. Do you think he looks slow? I think he looks un-Rashir-Rice-like. It'll look that smooth. So I don't know as much as we talk about how great Kenneth Walker is going to be. I'm not as confident in the receiving core, which was shaky to begin with. You should not be confident in the receiving court. So then how am I going to be able to judge Mahomes' great?

Well, that's why I asked Brew. because I listen I think the Chiefs are going to win 12 games I think that I think there I think Mahomes is going to look like a player by week five that never tore his ACL and I think the and listen Eric B&M

he's currently away from the team because of the tragedy involving his wife I don't know when he's coming back like so that is that's a real life devastation yeah but it does it does seem like they think he is you know going to be back at some point but who knows I think assuming he's back

his edition helps. I think the health of the offensive line was the most underrated story of the dream season last year. I think all of that will help. But I don't think 40 touchdowns, which it was, you know, commonplace for him early in his career, is necessarily even possible with this current group of receivers. I think 30 touchdowns could be hard, like, you know, it could be hard to come by. Now, different years, 30 touchdowns can come close to leading the league.

Like that fluctuates year to year. And so, but as far as the benefit of the doubt part, I do just want to level set something else as well. Historically and contemporaneously, because the only quarterback in the history of the league with more playoff wins or Super Bowl appearances or conference championship appearances than Patrick Mahomes is Tom Brady,

he is second on all-time playoff wins, on all-time conference championship appearances, Super Bowl appearances. He is fourth behind Brady, Montana, Bradshaw, and Super Bowl wins. And how that's him compared to when you're able to doing all-time rankings. Compared to the other guys in the top five, his, if we show their just kind of big-picture accomplishments on that level, we can show it to you. I mean, he has such a lead on all on the rest of the top five. He is 17 and 4 in the playoffs.

Allen's got the second most wins with eight. He's been to five Super Bowls. No one else has been to more than one. And as far as the individual statistical excellence, again, nobody's got more MVP's than him. He's tied with them. I understand it feels like it was forever ago he won an MVP. We're going into the 26th season.

He won his last MVP in 22. So it's three seasons removed from his last MVP. So I just, I think that he has, I think it's reasonable. that he has a big margin of error versus the contemporary field as far as who we think is the best, especially because to Bruce's point, he's 30. Like it is not. Now, and if we were worried about the knee,

and maybe some people are, I'm not, that would be a bigger reason for concern. And when I say benefit of the doubt, it won't be that he's still a great quarterback. It's on this kind of particular ranking in particular. Is he the best? Yeah, is he number one? That's what I mean, but not at top tier.

All right. head down to tier two where we find Lamar Jackson. He's got 22 tier one votes, but 28 tier two votes, one opposing coach saying he can't be special without the threat of the run. I think he needs to be more accent. That was my quote. I thought the same thing. When he does run.

Used to be he would go and outrun you. Now he kind of goes, but he's not always moving with purpose. You guys think my side job is poker. My side job is an anonymous coach. Are you okay with Lamarer? dropping to tier two. Well, first, shout out to the coaches, executives, GMs, etc, et cetera, who in this poll.

I mean, he's top five, which I can live with that. What was he, 12th in the player poll or something like? Yeah, I think he's 12th of my quarterback, 69th overall. So this is more like it. I do, however, the one guy I have an issue with him being behind is Burrow. Yes. And it's just because Burrow is not there, number one. That's one of them.

And I know you said, I think, over the last five years, he and Lamar played the same number of games. But the last three years, Lamar's only missed four games due to injury the last three years. And they were all four last year. Burroughs missed 16 in the last three years. So he's not available. That's number one. Number two, he has Jamar Chase and T. Higgins. Well, the best duo maybe outside of Dallas in the league, all right?

And we just talked about Mahomes not having great receivers to throw through. Does Lamar, has Lamar ever? Well, yeah, actually, he has the fourth highest paid wide receiver in the history of the NFL. We know how that works. He paid more than Jerry Rice and Randy Moss. I'm just saying. Zay Flowers today makes as much money as Justin Jefferson. They wear purple jerseys.

They're basically the same guy. Here's the deal. Lamar Jackson is the, of the top five. quarterbacks in the tier or in this poll. He's the only one who's never had an all pro receiver. And we know his pro, his lone pro bowl receiver, Zay Flowers is not close to Tyreek Hill and and Jamar Chase and Stefan Diggs and Puka and Devonte and Cooper Cup.

All right, that's the quarterbacks to the other five. So he has never had a great receiver to throw to, all right? Beyond that, Nick, here's something. for this is why I think he should have been tier one. Look at these are from their careers. Despite, again, never having that elite receiver like the others have had, he's number one among the top five in passer rating, touchdown percentage.

He doesn't throw it as much as everybody else, but he throws more touchdowns, you know, per capita, so to speak, than the rest. And yards per attempt, see, I know Nick, like all these stats, he knows are legit. Listen, that's a really good graphic. Just real quick. I don't think touchdown percentage is legit. I'm not into touchdown percentage the way you are. Yards per attempt, though, I love.

And so that's right. And the rate is legit. Absolutely. And so the only one there that I am, because I do think his, he doesn't throw it as much as everybody. That's why his yards are in that. And I think I value raw yards more than you do.

Yeah, I mean, he's never that high because, again, he doesn't throw it as much. But beyond that, here's some, Some more stats. Okay, great. Look at this total touchdowns in the last three seasons. These are, again, top five. I'm not throwing Purdy and Caleb and Jalen Hertz in there.

Top five. Hertz probably. He's second. All right. Now I know you're saying, yeah, but he runs. Okay. Let's look at this passing touchdowns. He's second.

More than Josh, more than Patrick, more than Joe Burrow. Again, I don't have a problem with Mahomes, Allen, and Stafford being ahead of him, particularly coming off this season. But Burrow, I'm sorry. He should be ahead of Burnton. And playing any of those games, right? Is that what you're saying? That's a big thing is he doesn't play a lot.

And he's got the, I honestly, if Lamar Jackson had Jamar Chase and T. Higgins, I think his numbers would be sky high. Okay. They're already great many of the years. A couple things, though. So about that. Because we all think Baltimore has a savvy front office.

they've never had a bunch of great receiver even before Lamar yeah so they they prioritize Derek Henry over star receiver they want to be a running team and whenever and this has been my my part of my rub with Lamar is the frustration of the not I'm not talking about this show necessarily but a little bit maybe but certainly the a lot of the outside discussion I would hear was about how Lamar is still underrated about how just as pure passer he's as good as anybody that he might be the best player in the league

and then when the playoffs would come around and they lose it'd be like you know what they should have done run the ball more you know what they should have done they lose to the chiefs without Derek Henry and they're mad they didn't run the ball more in that game then they go and get Derek Henry and so I don't

I don't buy as much as you brew the idea that Lamar has been bereft of, he's a one-man show on offense. Oh, no, no, he's definitely, I mean. But he hasn't had the star receiver. Yeah. Which is one of the reasons I didn't think we needed to put the Zayflower's contract as its own topic was I thought it would come up here. Mm-hmm.

Is, I think it is gobsmacking that the Ravens gave him that deal. I agree. And it is a sign that the Ravens think we do have a star receiver. We, you know what I mean? that we do have a guy that we drafted in the, he was first round, that we drafted the first round, which by the way,

they drafted Hollywood Brown in the first round. They drafted through Rashad Bateman in the first round. They've spent a lot of resources. Bateman can't stay healthy. Zay's good, but you would agree. I was shocked about it. And so that to me is,

but it is a further commitment to the idea. All right, Lamar, you've got enough, man. You've got Derek Henry. We think you have a number one receiver. We got rid of the head coach, which, again, I'm not saying he made them do it, but I think he was happy about that. Am I okay with him dropping to five? Yes, I'm absolutely okay with him.

I'm okay with that technically being Tier 2, given who is in Tier 1, yes, with the asterisk of. I think the borough piece is tricky. I also think that you alluded to the stat that I have said a lot. if we just take since, you know, the last five years, so I threw out Burroughs rookie year, which to be fair, he was hurting, but Lamar came into the league before him. In the last five years, I think we have the graphic, it's a pretty simple graphic. They've been equally as available.

And that, to me, is, it is tricky then how much we want to say Burrow is an injury risk and how much that means Lamar is an injury risk and how much that should affect Lamar's ranking. Now, it doesn't really matter for this conversation because Burroughs four. You know what I mean? But one of the biggest knocks on Burrow is, ah, is he going to be there? I mean, like I said, last three years, he's been hurt four times as much as Lamar. And also his injuries seem to be, Lamar has had strange things. No, his injuries seem.

A cold and sitting out, you know, all types of stuff. Burroughs injuries seem more catastrophic. Yeah. But I don't, there's, you know, eye of the beholder there. The quarterback who, unless something awful happened. is there, is Burrow, or the quarterback who hasn't had any catastrophic injuries, he has missed a third of the season three of the last five years. You know what?

It depends on how you look at it. I think that he is about right. I think if I were doing it, I would probably have him maybe one spot lower. But I think this is about fair and much more fair. I think in the player bowl, Burrough, he's 14th. I think it's much more fair than some of these other points. Wacky. All right, Ravens open up in Indianapolis.

We're going to head to New England where the Super Bowl and MVP silver medalist, Drake May is coming in at eight tie with Jared Gough and behind Lamar. Justin Herbert, of course. You got to just pencil Justin Herbert. Put that in. Herbert moved up. Of course. Herbert went from seven to six.

Well, yeah, he should. But did you read of his tier of Herbert's tier one votes? Six of the eight GMs. had him tier one and then only 12 of the 42 coaches and personnel other people had him to year one. James loved Justin Irons and Jack Prescott. That's who Drake May is behind. Here's my favorite quote from a personnel executive who was impressed with Drake as he started

talking. He's going to be a number one very soon. You know what? Yeah, he's a number one. Resilient kid makes plays underwhelming receiving court. Oh, Stefan Diggs did have a thousand yards. Those years. Smart, athletic.

Another year with this coordinator, Josh McDaniels. Get some big play guys. Well, I got great news for you. You got one. And I think he'll be. I have a confession, Kato. Number one, yes. I'm also this an honor.

I was reading this. I was like, I'm all over this thing. Get some. Do you think this ranking is fair or foul? Look, again, Danny's the Justin Herbert guy. But with us three, I'm the just, I'm like the Justin Herbert guy. You can have it. I'm expecting him to have a big year.

And he might prove what I'm about to. say wrong. I think he could have an MVP type season. He did last year. He got a vote. He should. He got a vote. But he, so I do think he's potentially great. Yes. But he's the one guy

right now, I would say you could put Drake ahead of. Everybody else I'm fine with being ahead of Drake because Drake's done it one year. And it was a great year. Sure. But he did it one year. Didn't look great in the playoffs. I'm not going to hold that too much against him, but didn't look great in the playoffs, obviously.

but had one great season. Just do it again before I start moving you ahead of Dac Prescott. Lamar and Burr. Yeah, I mean, all golf does is have a great regular season every year. That's all he does. And so look, you can look at Caleb, you can look at Jaden Daniels, you can look who's not even on there anymore. C.J. Stroud, who I think was 20th, they had one great season.

So just do it again before I move. move you higher. I think that is very fair. No, I want, I'd rather hear you talk about Drake May than me. My one angle on Drake May because I've done the stats until I'm blue in the face

is the quote that says if he adds some big time playmakers. I wonder if we are not talking about A.J. Brown enough. And I think the fundamental question, he told me if you agree, comes down to, does the addition of A.J. Brown

plus a more difficult schedule mean Drake May is going to be better or worse. I think he's going to be better. And I think when we look at the guys, the quarterbacks who are ahead of him, what did they add to get better? Mahomes got Kenneth Walker. I think it'll help.

Josh Allen got DJ Moore. Stafford really got defensive players. Burrow didn't get anything, I don't think. Lamar got a new coach. Burrow got defensive players. Borough got defensive players. Herbert got a new OC. Dak really got a new D.

defense and Drake May got AJ Brown. I think that is, when you're just looking at like raw, like can I take my skills and my numbers or my game to the next level? I think that is the most impressive addition between every...

Of all of them? Or than Brock Purdy getting Mike Evans? Don't get me wrong. Mike Evans can still catch the ball. So I... Stafford's defense is awesome. And Stafford's defense is pretty. As far as impacting... So I think the I think the biggest upgrade.

I think A.J. Brown from Stefan Diggs is a smaller upgrade than Kenneth Walker from Isaiah Pacheco on one leg. That's a kind of a Stefan compliment, I guess. Yeah, because Stefan did have a super productive year, but it wasn't exposed. AJ's a better player. Oh, he's a way better player. He's younger, and he's way more explosive. The explosiveness is undeniable.

One of the sneaky, interesting things about Drake is, Drake, the first, we used to have this graphic. I forgot to ask for it. but like nine games of the year. He was like 82% on deep passes. And then he was on a deep pass heater. And then the regression of the mean hit him smack in the face. And the second half of the year, it's not that he went to average.

He was on, he was bad on deep passes, you know, compared to league average. I am curious. You think that's a combination of being tape being out on? I have no idea. I think it's multifactor. Yeah, I think it could be a little tape. I think he was a little lucky early. I think he got a little banged up.

Keshaw, Booty was out, missed a few games. But Booty might not even be on the team. He's going to be on it. I don't know what we're doing with him. He should be on the team. But to answer this question, yeah, any lower would have been foul. Like, I expect Drake May to leave this season where he is considered a top five quarterback. I said that midway through last year that I thought Drake May was going to be a perennial top five quarterback.

I have major questions about how good. good the PACs are going to be this year. I have almost no questions about Drake May. And so I think that I could see a scenario where at the end of this year, you know, he's supplant, I think there's a scenario where Stafford

retires, so there's an open spot. Where Herbert finally, where people are like, okay, he was awesome. Well, he's got to do it. First couple years. Absolutely. I think either Burrow or Lamar could lose their kind of grandfathered spot. If they, you know, if Burrow missed the playoffs for a fourth straight year, if Lamar is a down year,

So I see him on the ascent. Lamar's MVP should keep him up there in my book. If Mahomes is Super Bowls, I know Super Bowls and MVPs are two different things. The playoffs is hurts Lamar. Yeah. He's got to get over that hump. You can't have your claim to fame be you are awesome in the regular season and then have back-to-back bad regular seasons.

That's right. And I'm not saying I think he will. Kevin Durant, back to comparing the Warriors and the Sixers. That's next on the FIS one. I'm not really better. I'll take it. Hear that. It's your money calling.

It wants a promotion. Elevate your savings with the Scotia high-interest savings account. Always earn high regular interest rates that grow the more you save and invest. Conditions apply. Visit scotiabank.com slash h-I-SA to learn more. Scotia Bank. You're richer than you think. Check out the podcast and our YouTube channel.

Always happy for the support from the comments. Comment of the day, Brew. from Gregory J. 547 18 hours ago. Bruised Theatrix, posts like love, are just the best. Even seeing it coming a mile away, it's still great, L.O.L. That's good to hear. Because as I was doing, I saw you guys knew it was coming. At this point, it's just like a popular song.

We know you're going to play it, but we're still happy to hear it. How good are the Sixers going to be? Well, according to Kevin Durant, they're going to be better than his Warriors teams. Durant writing on Instagram that the comparison, he's replying to somebody, obviously. Isn't close? No, I think he's saying, just to be clear, the other guy said it ain't close. And he's like, ain't close, laughing. Oh, I'm sorry, I apologize to Kevin Durant.

Not close, L-M-A-O. I don't want to get sniped here by the sniper. I'm sorry, you're right. Good job. Okay, Joel is an MVP recently. Tyrese Max has been an all-star for last three years. We know what Braun does. You skip Jaylon Brown recent finals.

Oh, Janet Brown recent finals MVP. Clay Thompson was never an MVP candidate in anything. Wow. Wow. 22 points. That's actually pretty. I don't know if that's a compliment. Insult.

Draymond 14, 7, and 6. Steph's an MVP just like Joelle. They cancel each other out, basically. No difference between Steph. I don't get how the Warriors team's better on paper. I don't get it. Okay? And get it.

We see, look, I don't know if you were going to show this. Go ahead. Dremont's response was hilarious. It didn't get into that. It's just a whole nother. It was hilarious, though. It was right on the money. I think we do have it.

And Clay both responded. We have them both. This is Clay. Hey, man, you good. What are you using my full government for than the idea emoji. And then Draymond said Slim thought he was on his burner with the laughing emoys. It does look like that. It looks like he thought he was on his work.

Also, just to add a little context where you go, Draymond also on a podcast that he recorded before this last thing from Katie, but in response to the first thing, Draymond said that, I'm paraphrasing, but what he said, he goes, Katie views basketball like Uncle Drew, meaning it's just about getting buckets. And that's why he views them having four 25 point per game scorers is so valuable.

That's interesting. And he's like, he's like, he's just thinking about it through the, this is what Dreyman said yesterday before this comment was it's just about like, who can get buckets. And that's why he's viewing it the way it is. He talks about it. That's Dremont's take on Duran's take on Duran's take from before Duran doubled down on the take. I think that's pretty. Or whatever it is, but go ahead. I'm going to try to be fair as fair as possible.

I just don't agree with Dremont's take on D'Ondra. You don't think that's how Katie looks at? I don't, I disagree with Dremont's take on Duran's take. Yeah, I just. All right. Okay. Do your thing. Use it differently.

Look, on paper. Don't you dare. I'm just going to kick facts. On paper, you can make an argument for KD's side of this. Because as I said, Sixers starting five with Vijay Ascom as a fifth guy, they're all stars or potential stars in him. Four stars. One, I mean, two superstars. Maxi and Brown, I mean, heck, it might be four superstars.

Okay. All right? And then Vijay H.combe, who maybe could be become a star. The Warriors had two role players in their starting lineup. Draymond Green, great role player, Hall of Famer. Yeah. And Zaza Pachulia. Now, he mentioned a lot of the accolades, but here's the six or starting five.

LeB. Jalen Brown and V.J. Edgecom. That matters. Number three picks in the draft. The number one pick when I was, when I was, hear me out. Tyrese maxi, 21st pick. Four first round picks. Gold State, Steph seventh pick.

KD number two, Clay 11th. Drayman and Zaza were second round picks. So what I'm saying is that the wake I believe KD is looking at. I think your point was great from Drayman, but also is just straight. paper, no context, no history, just straight paper, what they've accomplished and how talented they are.

But, and this is, I love this. This is my wheelhouse. I keep telling you, you don't just put a team together. You don't just grab four, five great players, and that's a great team. Look at the Knicks that just ran through the league. They didn't, I mean, I don't even have to say that they don't have a bunch of blue chicken. So my point is just that, sure, on paper, literally speaking, you can look at what those guys have done, their talent, and say what you want to say. But as a team, they're not even close to what the Warriors were.

The Warriors were way better than the individual parts. But the other thing that I think you're alighting over a bit and Katie was totally disregarding is where these guys were in their careers. Comparing Steph Curry in 2018-17, who was the reigning two-time MVP, to Joel Embed who's played 40 games the last two years because he won an MVP three years ago is ludicrous. Comparing the addition, and this is ultimately, KD, one of the reasons I like him, I think he might be crazy like a fox. I think this might all be one long almost operation to, get people to say what I'm about to say because

I think deep down Katie's been wanting people to say a version of this for his whole career LeBron right now is not nearly as good as Katie was 10 years ago. Yeah no cute. And so that's but that's the addition. You know he's like he's like hey they brought me in

but Katie at 28. But it might be as good depends on who you compare him to. It might be as good as Draymond was. Sure but that's not the but the new addition I think he's comparing him himself to that. And so I, it is, I think the point Wilde's made yesterday is the most valid one. It is wildly fascinating that Durant wants to keep having this fight. That it's been 10 years,

he won his championships, he left there in sports heroic fashion, going out, you know, on a bad leg to try to win a third straight championship, and tragically blue his against. Achilles, never felt he got the respect or love or adoration that he deserved, and is still fighting that war. Because nobody, I... Some people are. No, no, no, no, that's not what I was going to say. I was going to say nobody in their right mind thinks there is an actual valid comparison

between where the Warriors War were in the summer of 2016 and where the same. Sixers are in the summer of 2026 and where Kevin Durant was in the NBA hierarchy in the summer of 2016. Right. And where LeBron is in the summer of 2026. You're right, Brew, that some people are still throwing the Warriors thing in his face. But I can't imagine that happens to him a lot with people whose names he actually knows. You know what I mean? I think it's just people on the Internet.

He's proven that that doesn't matter. He has a very egalitarian. I respect it. It's like, hey, are you? you a long-term NBA journalist? Like, hey, did you start watching the other day? Are you in middle school? Like, everyone's opinion is valid. It's kind of cool that he's willing to go at anybody. That being said, to continue that point, again, this is a Kevin Durant's story wrapped up in a Philadelphia cloth. How much of his, how many of his decisions post-wariers are rooted in trying

to write this wrong? and it steered him down this wacky course of teams. Like, I'll show you guys. I won't have it. I'll play a joyless brand of basketball on my own in Phoenix, in Houston, in Brooklyn. It's like, man, you were on the Warriors, and it was awesome. It was a gift to the basketball world. So I totally actually disagree with that last one.

You don't think he was doing that? No, I think he was trying to recreate what he had in Golden State, but with the credit. Going to Brooklyn with Kyrie. and immediately having them, you know, getting James Harden. And then of all the places he could go to, going to Phoenix, fresh off a finals appearance with Devin Booker. Like, I think Kevin, I think KD saw from a basketball perspective how much, how he could exhibit his skills and how much fun the game can be

when the other team can't simply focus on you. and so he was trying to recreate that to a degree, but in spots where if they won, nobody would put any yeah butts about it. And he just hasn't been able to do it. You know what I mean? Like he hasn't been able to get over that mountain, but it is, I don't think anybody actually thinks

Bronn at 40, soon to be 42 in year 24, joining a team that hasn't been to the finals in a quarter century, is it all similar? Again, if Bronn had joined, the Thunder, you would at least say, okay, they beat you in the playoffs, they won a championship the year before, they flirted with 70 wins, they have a, the reigning MVP. But it still would have been, yeah, but bronze 41 and you were 28, but it's. Guess what? It would have been awesome if he was on the Thunder.

I would have hated it. I would have loved it. If he was on Spurs, I would have loved that. If you took Champinney's starting spot on the Spurs, Brew, would you have liked it? I wouldn't have hated it. He would have got their championship. Real Canadian Superstore has everything you need this back-to-school season. Save on lunchbox savers like Ziggy's sliced deli-meat products for always 375. And get Life Brand Pure Vita shampoo or conditioner for $8 each. At Real Canadian Superstore, when you're ready, we're ready, with a whole world and more.

Afternoon headlines, sponsored by Hilton Guardian and Hiltons for this day. We're going to go back to the Athletics QB tiers. In tier two, solidly in tier two. Hey, can I say something about tier two? Can you, can you wait until KW? Go ahead and say it. Solidly in tier two. Not like flirting with tier one like Drake May.

These guys just dug in like the batters box. We're tier two quarterbacks. Brock Purdy and Caleb. Let's take a look at their seasons last year. Woof. 58% completion. percentage by Caleb, but don't worry, he didn't get sacked that much. Brock Purdy's up for out 69.

Touchdown interception. Solidly in Caleb's favor. Solidly, 27 to 7. And poor Brock Purdy only had 20 touchdowns. Everything. 10 picks. What's going on there? Passer rating goes to Brock.

Who would you rather have this year? First, your bonus take. Bonus take, early. You know, people think of me as an NBA guy. I get it. That was years ago. That's like your Kevin Durant Warriors thing. No one says that anymore.

Well, but I have been saying for years, knowing I would get mocked by you two guys, because every time you mock me, that tier two is pretty big. Oh, it is for an NBA guy. Right? And all that's tier two. I have some courage, guys.

The executives that run the NFL, the talent evaluators, the guys that build the championship, teams are here like this with me. We are in lockstep. You can have a two-time MVP and a Super Bowl MVP and a Super Bowl silver medal is up there with a guy. I mean, one of those guys is somewhat accomplished. I mean, which, okay, which guy you're taking out?

He's taking a bunch out. Tell me who you're taking out. I'm taking several guys out. Here's what I'm saying. What I'm saying is if this, Baker. We heard we should reorder the list, but it should end after Caleb. After Caleb should be, like, you can't have, it should be seven people maximum per tier. You can't have a 13-person tier.

Like, Jaden on down should be a different tier. Now, you can argue that Arnold should be higher. I understand. No, you know. But go ahead. Myself and the other talent evaluators around the league disagree. This is great guys. All right, anyway.

I'm a shock you guys. I knew it. What? Because he's worried about the substations. eating more players. I'm a shock you guys. While I do believe that Caleb's ceiling is obviously much higher.

Wait, this isn't going to shock. That's not shocking at all. Give me Brock. And here's why. The opposite is shocking. No. Because Caleb has a higher ceiling. Yeah, no.

But I'm objective too. I know what I'm getting with Brock Purdy. I'm getting accuracy, 69%. Yep. I'm getting tight window throws. Look, Caleb, now he will throw more. He will also throw more interceptions than Caleb. There's no question.

That's great about Caleb. And again, if Caleb reaches his potential, it's obviously better than Purdy. But I'm not sure he's going to do that. He's got a lot of stuff to work on. I know when I'm getting with Brock, I'm going to get. Brock's passer rating for his career is 104. That would be number one all time. He needs 150 pass attempts to qualify for the all-time rankings.

I can't wait for that. So once he does, he will be number one. Josh, put that on our calendar once he gets a hundred fifty. That's a few games into the year. So, yeah, I would take. For this year, I would take Perthi. You think Purdy is going to be better than Caleb's here? Yeah, because I'm not convinced Caleb's going to make the neck the jump.

Maybe. Certainly more spectacular and a higher upside. I would argue that's not a bad year. Seven and two. Well, you're missing half the year is bad. Well, injuries, yeah. Yeah, but that counts. But.

I mean, availability. has to count. I'm assuming the guys are playing. I'm assuming the guys are playing. No, I understand. But what I'm saying is, Purdy, two years ago, we all agree you had a down year.

We can disagree on the reason why. We all agree on a down year, and we debated about why they should have waited to pay him, all that stuff. And last year, he was not, you know, that available. And his backup produced exactly what he produced,

almost to the number. Boy, he's a great backup. Sure, you're right. He is a great. a great backup. I would definitively rather have Caleb. I also think, and I

bet you guys agree, deep down Kyle Shanahan would rather have Caleb. I know KW. hates this type of discussion or argument, but I love it, so we're at a stalemate. What happens if they trade a team? Well, I think it's that plus

who would trade, the Bears would never in a million years if the Niners' called like, hey, straight up, Brockford, Caleb, let's do it. Yeah. The Bears would never do it in a million years, even if it was only one year left on the deal. And so I think it's clearly Caleb, I'm very curious. And the reason I wanted it to be this specific question in 2026 to know what your answer is.

This is going to be tricky. Yeah. Because I'm not trading teams. I'm not out here playing, you know, imaginary stuff. I'm in the real world. Right. I don't like either of these teams. As Ben Johnson said, the Bears are the number one regression candidate,

a little bit of schedule, a little bit of turnovers, a little bit of Caleb Magic that might just not happen winning several games in the last two minutes or overtime. Meanwhile, I'm looking for good news out of the 49ers. I'm actually on the hunt trying to balance out the scale. Just anything. Cool highlights and weird and wonderful. Oh, Debo Samuel's back.

Okay. That's, I think, good. Mike Evans, he's also a little bit older, although he's a great player. Kiddle, I'd like to see Kyle Shanning, I'd like to see being a full go. That would be nice. But you're talking about team. What's your answer? What about the individual?

What is your answer? I guess my answer would have to be the 49ers. They're not an available option. Would you rather have Caleb? I think that was pretty. Just in a universe? This season. That was perfect.

This season, I think the 49ers are going to be better. That is not the question. It's about the quarterbacks. Well, combo Mac Jones, Purdy? The first ever, all-electric 26th Subaru Trail Seeker is the EV for the trail obsessed. With up to 444 kilometers on a full charge and DC fast charging from 10 to 80% in about 30 minutes in ID. conditions. Plus, ample ground clearance and symmetrical all-wheel drive make the 2026 trail seeker the most capable EV Subaru has ever built. Test drive it at your local Subaru dealer or visit

Subaru.ca. Live from New York, the show it's already planning on a watch party for Bill's Lions at Nick's house. I redid my entire house to serve Kevin Wilde's specific specifications. Brew, I have no problem. Brew's comfortable in the house with me, without me. I'm going to walk. He'll leave if his team's move. Well, this is good. It's Lyons bills. And I'm the neutral. Question for you.

You can't leave early. I'm telling you right now. He's only planning to save for the first half. If you leave before the game ends. If the game is in hand. No. I'm not staying to the final. I'm going to get to traffic.

There's no traffic. There's no traffic from Harlem to Schenectady at 1130 at night. That's a long drive. Second hour. I'll guarantee you he's only playing on watching the first half. I'll be like, hey, Where's the bathroom out of here? Today, QB tears is Joe Borough.

Still on the Mount Rushmore of active quarterbacks. Meanwhile, who should take the most offense to their rankings? Maybe Lamar Jackson, maybe some Super Bowl MVP we discussed. But right now, we're headed to Buffalo. Josh Allen moved up to a tie for second on the tiers. Moved up despite that place. But one NFL coach said his infamous. This play against the Broncos is what's holding him back.

Under 30 seconds left in the half, runs for a meaningless 12-yard game, fumbles, gives up a field goal in a playoff game to go behind two scores against Denver. Until he quits doing that. Can't rank him as the top quarterback. It's one of the worst plays I've seen. Ever seen. Costs in the game. Did Allen deserve to move up after a play like that? Look, what he moved up from third to second.

Yeah. I have no problem with him being second. Yeah. All right. But there's just nobody. It's kind of like we talked with Mahomes. You can't put Burrough ahead of him. Stafford, you could.

Stafford ahead of him. You could. And he was the MVP. But again, not great against Chicago in the playoffs and 38 years old. I think they probably took that in the consideration. Lamar obviously had a down year. And Mahomes, you know, is still ahead of him. So I don't have a problem with him being number two.

and the fact of the matter is he is phenomenal. Like the dude is awesome. For all his mistakes, he's kind of like, I don't know if there's a perfect comparison, it's almost like a shack where Shaq was so physically dominant. Oh, yeah, he couldn't hit free throws for the most part. And he, you know, might not, you know, be Elijah Wan defensively. He had some holes in his game. But he was so dominant physically that it was just great.

Josh Allen is so spectacular from a physical standpoint that I get why he's ranked so high. You live with the mistakes. And I might cost him. We'll see if he ever gets past it for a Super Bowl. But you live with the mistakes because he's so great. But bottom line is I'm fine with where he's ranked. Can I show you this graphic on how consistent Josh has been?

Yeah, I'm very curious what it is. Yeah, it's the opposite of your roller coaster. Was it total touchdowns? Oh. It's not this graphic, though, Dust. although I appreciate seeing this graphic. This is from 2024 and 25. So this is his last six seasons.

Okay. And these are composites, right? So at his best, he's had 13 wins. At his worst, he's had 11 wins. At his best, the team scores 31 points. His worst year, they scored 26. Total touchdowns is his best, 45. Worst 39.

His bottom one is not that consistent. It becomes all about the turnover. Yeah. At his best, he has eight, at his worst. It's 22. Yeah. And it's what the, you know, executive said, hey, he'll do some boneheaded plays. But that's very much in his control.

Is it? Not, I mean, certainly. You know what? Let me ask you a question. I'm going to use a, I'm going to, you say that. I'm going to use without naming names. But I think you'll, we'll know who I'm talking about. And I say this lovingly.

There is a, what did you say? Hubbard. No. Oh, sorry. There is a legendary former NBA player who we all love as a player, and I think some of us know a bit of as a person, who does broadcasting and who occasionally gets brought up as like, hey, could we have on the show?

And the answer is, yeah, you can't because you can't go live because he just can't help himself but to curse. He's just going to curse. He's great. People love him, but for our show, it wouldn't work because he's just going to curse. If I were like, well, he can just control that. He just, he can just control it. Would you say, that's a fantastic example.

Well, thank you. I appreciate that. And the answer is no, he can't. You would think he can, but he can't. He's not himself if he's not doing it. He's not himself. And then he won't be as special. He won't be as entertaining.

He'll be thinking too much. He won't be, he won't be himself. He won't be free. He won't be free. That's John. I mean, okay. And so I, listen, I am in a weird spot here because I believe Josh Allen's second best quarterback in the league. He is ranked second in this poll, and I find it outrageous.

Where do you want him? I think that if this was his last two years, that includes the playoffs, which is a little different than the graphic you accidentally showed, but we can show it. You shouldn't move up after that year to that year. When Matt Stafford won league MVP. So you think Stafford should have. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that when you have a four turnover playoff game that literally ends in tears in your coach being fired,

you shouldn't move up. Like I think that unless like there's a bunch of retirements, There's, you know, and so we can, Burrow was ahead of him last year. Burrow moved down because he missed time. So be it. Matt Stafford's sitting right there. And I think there are two quarterbacks in the league that get evaluated differently than how I'm used to quarterbacks being evaluated.

And it's Allen and Herbert. And they are, there is such a, in different ways, and they're very different players, very different accomplishments. so much of the conversation with Herbert is on hypotheticals and raw talent rather than accomplishments. That is odd for a player who's been in the league is going into year seven or year eight, year seven. And with Allen, in my experience with quarterbacks, when I was growing up, Brett Farve was Peter King, the great Peter King, would always be. always talk about Favre in these like hollowed terms. And Peter King was criticized somewhat for that for talking, for only focusing on the

wow and not the league leading turnovers and all of that. And it's like, well, as a quarterback, yeah, take care of the ball of the stuff Tom Brady was going to. That is how everyone in the media talks about Josh. It is always the, you know, the glass, the great stuff. And the great stuff is tremendous. Don't get me wrong. but it is odd to me

that after what I think most people would consider one of his worst postseason moments with it as wide open as it ever could have been for him that his standing only got enhanced that to me is weird

in the eyes of the executives that it was helpful for him I think that's odd okay do you have anything else I'm good with that You liked the KG comp? I mean, it'd be great to have them on the show. It'd be great.

I love it. It'd be great. That's what I'm saying. We're Paul here. And it lasts for one day. You guys can do it. Shoot. It was good, though.

Rounding out the top tier, Joe Burrow. Last year, he was tied for first with Mahomes. This year, he's still one of the best in tier one quarterback. Stafford, Allen, Burrow, Mahomes are all. different. But at the end of the day, they can single-handedly win games. That's a defensive coordinator on Joe Burrow. I'll brew your reaction. I just think, like I said earlier, that Burrow should be below Lamar. And Burrow, you talked about how we talked about Herbert and Josh Allen differently. I mean, Burrow, and I know you went last five years, Lamar's

missed as many games. three years it hasn't been close. That's true. He's missed 16 games in the last three years. And then on top of that, he's great. Don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to diminish Joe Burrough. But I'm just saying,

Josh Allen, they had to go out and get a number one receiver. I know he has to find Diggs years ago. Patrick Mahomes, we talked about he doesn't have the great receiving court. Lamar Jackson, regardless of what they just pay Zayflowers, doesn't have great receivers. All right? Matthew Stafford does, all right, and Burrow does. So he's not winning games single-handedly.

A lot of times, Jamar Chase is great. Right, he's right. That's the thing too. And so I just think that, number one, I do believe if he's healthy, they will have a good season. I just think he's that good. But I think the fact that he's rarely healthy has to be taken into consideration. the fact that he, when you compare him to these other elite quarterbacks, has a phenomenal receiving duo.

That has to be taken into consideration. And again, I stand by. If Lamar Jackson had Chase and Higgins, then I think his numbers would be ridiculous. As the president of the quarterback wins club, we have to go and fight a lot of battles out here. And this one I saw, and I said, you know what, give me my shield and sword.

Okay, good. The last three years for he can single-handedly win games. He went five and three, nine and eight, and five and five. Those are his record as a starter. When he was, it's on the Bengals record, it's his record. His record. In games he, they won as much, didn't they with Jake Brown? Jake Brown and Cabal.

When they went nine and eight two years ago, he went crazy. He led the league in completions, attempts. He threw for 4,900 yards. He had 43 touchdowns. They went 9 and 8. So he had an amazing game. You're not single-handedly. He went 9 and 8.

Last year, you went 5 and 3. And the whole thing is, the defense is so bad. Even the great Joe Burrow can't overcome such a woeful defense. And part of that is true. He also scored zero points against the Ravens. Zero. And he himself said no team would win with me at quarterback. So that's one game you lost by yourself.

You only played, started eight of them. Then you had this game against the Bills, which was in hand, until you say, okay, you toss this one up. Yeah, that's a good one. And this is a pick six. It's like, don't worry. Joe Burroughs back. Give me the ball back. Let's see what happens.

Okay, Joe, can you get the ball back on the next possession dust? Yeah. What happens? Back-to-back interceptions. So it's, there's a point where, and I guess I'm like this weird defender of the Bengals wolf defense that is not good. But it's not, no, to the point where Joe Burrow is a flawless player and he just has to carry this, the us Sisyphian, is that the, who's got the big thing?

Sisyphus. Oh, he's pushing the rock. He's not carrying it. I got to do it all by myself. The handbook, the guy with the Atlas. Yes. Yes. And I like Joe Burrow, but like stop.

in single-handling games. So the only thing that I agree with a ton of what you said, the thing at the end, I do think the defense is that bad, but the defense is that bad in part because of decisions that the organization has undertook that I think Joe Burrow wanted them to. Well, yeah.

Joe Burrow, like Joe Burrow wanted them to, obviously bring back Jamar Chase, no-brainer, wanted them to keep De Higgins. It is something I said two years prior, get in front of this. Trade him for a first round pick. You know, you don't, if you've got a great quarterback and a great receiver, there was not that long ago, a decent amount of people in the NFL thought Joe Burrow was the best quarterback in the league,

and Jamar Chase was the best receiver in the league. We were talking about Burrowhead and all of that. You don't then also need the best number two receiver in the league when you clearly need to help on defense. So I think that, that is where I put. Not an asterisk, but sometimes he gets narratively, I think, the best of both worlds, which is these amazing stats. And you can't hold him.

It's not his fault that Devence allows points. But one of the reasons he has the amazing stats is because the resources they put there, which could, you know, is there a scenario where Burrow doesn't have eye-popping stats as eye-popping of stats? The Devant is better. They win more games. and his overall standing in the eyes of the NFL media or NFL whoever. He threw like 28 touchdown. Yeah, that it drops, but the team's better.

I think that is certainly at least possible. I also, you talked about the weapons these guys have. I do think in Burroughs' defense of all these guys, he has had clearly the worst coaching situation. And I know that sounds mean to Zach Taylor, but I think Sean McDermott, for all his flaws, was a good NFL head coach and will continue to be in the future good NFL head coach. John Harbaugh is obviously a good NFL head coach.

McVeigh's great. Andy Reid's great. So I think that has worked against him. The other thing the Bengals have had one of of the great quarterbacks the worst of, and this is where I want to throw it back to you, is the offensive line. And that's where I think a lot of these quarterback rankings become. a ranking of past plays gone right. Which is the more run-focused quarterbacks

that we're going to get to in the next segment, like where Jalen Hertz is listed and other guys, don't really get any credit for the plays they save with their legs. And the handful, and there's not many of them left, quarterbacks that can't do anything with their legs, it's like, well, he's a bad offensive line. But I do wonder if, I'll use Patrick, certainly Josh, but, you know, we could even go lesser quarterbacks who were more athletically gifted. If they dealt with this Bengals' offensive line, would it be as big of an issue for the team?

Or would they be able to save plays? Would they, would the, is some of the injury issue, the fact that he can't get, you know, get away from a pass rush because of the lack of athleticism. And does that, you know, is that fair in how we evaluate him across the entire league? Because if we showed that, we talked to this the other day, if we show all of tier one and two, there's only two guys that you would argue Burrow is more mobile. Stafford and golf. Yes. You know, of those 17 guys, he would be 15th in mobility score.

And that is becoming a bigger. and bigger piece of the modern NFL. And I think that's a fair knock as well, especially if you think like I do, that's probably at least somewhat to do with some of the injuries. Some of them for sure. I mean, I think he's legitimately injury prone, too. You know, we saw the rolling out in practice and he pulled his calf or whatever. The wrist injury kind of, I know that can be a, he hit a helmet, but that kind of seemed

to come out of nowhere. Just quickly just kind of a tangent off of the Joe Burrow story. when I was looking up what he was doing last year. I forgot this story so I just want to resurface it. When he lost that game, I think it was 24-0-0 to the Reasons.

That was immediately after he publicly said, I need to have fun playing football. And it felt like he was in a little bit of an emotional dip. And I remember he was like, hold on, is he talking about retiring? Do you think that story is gone? or do you think that story might pop up this year?

Look, I did not think he was considering retirement. I thought he was just going through a tough period and being honest and kind of speaking his mind in front of the press. But if they have another, if he gets injured again and plays nine games, seven games, whatever, I think it would have to cross his mind because he just hasn't been able to stay healthy. Or at least saying, get me to another team.

but with the receivers he has, I'm not sure he's going to say that. So what I would wonder is if he is health, if it's more a two years ago situation, maybe not quite as good of numbers, but he plays the whole year and they miss the playoffs again. Does he have a similar moment of clarity that a different number one overall pick Bengals quarterback had, you know, at one point in his career in Carson Palmer,

like, I'm not playing here anymore. Like the, where, or does the organization have the moment that a different number, overall pick who had crazy numbers but didn't win a lot for historically dysfunctional organization, the Lions with Stafford. Now, those guys were older in their careers than Burrow is currently in his, where it's like, it isn't going to, we missed it. Like Burrow famously said, you know, our window is every year I'm healthy and hasn't sniffed a playoff game.

I shouldn't say hasn't sniffed, but hasn't been in the playoffs since then. I because so I Bengals fans get mad at me because but I want to be very clear. I think he's excellent. I don't think that he is just a lifetime top five quarterback if they missed the playoffs every year no matter what the stats are.

But I think he's excellent. But I think that organization is very very difficult to win with long term and big time. I think they might have missed their best opportunity. I think they've made some bad draft picks. I think they've misallocated resources and I don't expect them to be good

this year. Really? Yeah, I don't. I mean, put it in pencil, but I won't think I'll be having the Bengals as one of my seven playoff teams. And if that's the case, I think a soft trade demand would be more likely than retirement. Oh, that's what. Interesting. Is Jalen Hurts being disrespected?

Of course. If people are ranking quarterbacks. At IKEA, we make things just for college life, like the Rosenmando Blanche. out curtains in gray. They say you can't put a price on sleep, but we did for the low, low price of $49. Why are you in my room? Shh, you have a big exam tomorrow. Shop back to school at IKEA. Hmm, hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Saturday night is baseball night in America. You get to see the guardians taking on the White Sox, the Orioles take on the Texas Rangers, or the Texas Rangers, or the Tigers taking on the Giants. This is Saturday, 7 o'clock, only on Fox. Welcome back to First things first. We're just on a roll recently. Wow, look at this. QB tiers from Mike Sando, the full list that Nick requested in the group text. Dusty reluctantly made. Is that a fine? I'll put it in the wall. So we're starting with Mahomes. We end with Shador. We're not going to read them all.

Although I do like supporting our podcast audience. They don't know. Brew, what is your number one issue with these rankings? My number one issue is that Jalen Hertz should be higher. Great. Look, Jalen Hertz has only won a Super Bowl. And I get it, Darnel did as well. But he's been the two in the last four years.

Was the MVP of the game he won, was spectacular in both games. I know he had to fumble in the first loss to Kansas City, but he was still great. All right. He wins 11 or more games every year. Every year. Here it is.

The guys in the last four seasons that have won 11 or more games. It's him and Josh Allen. So many of these graphics, Patrick's falling off. It makes me so sad. Yeah. Patrick's not there. There's so many of these graphics, but go ahead. Lamar, Joe Burrow, obviously, Staffing, none of them.

All right. And then last year, and I know there were some ugly games last year. Yeah. But 25 touchdowns, six interceptions. He was third in the league in touchdown the interception ratio last year behind Stafford and golf. I just got to give the man some respect because he's a winner. Some of that's, I think. Go ahead.

Sorry. Go ahead. And I have to put him ahead of Caleb and Jaden Daniels and Brock Purdy and Breaker Mayfield. And Darnel, I'm actually moving him. You're not going to like this, but I'm moving him all the way up right there behind Dak Prescott at number eight. And ahead of Drake May. Yes.

Like I said, Jaylon's done it many years. Let's see Drake do it another year. Do you want to respond to the Jalen stuff? No, because I'm a Jalen Hertz supporter. And I feel like while some quarterbacks get to ride a nice wave that we have the surfing music on. You get to ride a nice wave of your accomplishment. Hey, I'm

Joe Burrow. I threw for 4,900 yards a year ago. You just get to ride it for a while. Jalen Hertz wins Super Bowl MVP. He got to ride it for about three games. Not even. The first game against the Cowboys, that wasn't enough, even though we won.

That wasn't enough. And then it was it was. And what is Burroughs, you mentioned the 4,900 yards, I know you knows. What is Burroughs? What is he really riding on? He beat Mahomes. In a playoff game. Hertz beat him in the Super Bowl.

Burrow beat him to get to the Super Bowl. Hertz beat him in the Super Bowl. There was just and I. And has played him. I pride myself on being the Jalen Hertz defender. So some of the stuff was so ugly. It was rough. Not completing a pass.

Listen, 17 is too low. But here is the, here's the conversation I actually wanted to have because I wanted to cede a bit of the time I was going to use on my biggest complaint to spend more time on this once they told the home's not getting all the 50 votes no that's enough um

uh how meaningful is it to you I'll go to you first that this is a resoundingly almost consensus opinion that Jalen Hertz is fine that there it is you are not there while Lamar's ranking might fluctuate

boroughs hard like that I think he was nine last no no no but I'm saying where his standing in the league right now like whether it's the player poll whether it was the ESPN poll where it was the top 10 and he ended up we did it we did the math on it he would have come in I think 15th that he's 17th on this that it was that it would hell when coach man genie's here that it seems that for

people that we would consider the NFL experts, the people that coach teams or run teams, look at him to mix metaphors as a bus rider, not a bus driver. Does that, like, it is your, the Jalen Hertz having the ranking of what his resume is, whether he's, you know, his passer rating, his wins record, his Super Bowl, his playoffs, all of it. that ranking would be so far out of the mainstream of where he actually is ranked by people who in theory are the experts. Is that, I'm not even saying to change your opinion. He's the negative equivalent of Justin Herber.

Correct. So that is the-Herber gets the positive benefit. Oh, yes. Not having accomplished much. Yes. And Jalen gets a negative. And so that is exactly, because my biggest issue is Herbert tracking. And I look at them as two sides of the same coin where it's like, okay, but.

Everybody has, like, I'm the one out of the mainstream, or this show is the one out of the mainstream. All of these rankings love Herbert. None of them like Hertz. Oh, yes. It's because they look at, I mean, Lamar, I think Lamar can throw the football. They're looking at passing ability, period. That's what I think.

And Herbert has great passing ability. Jalen is, to me, just a winner he can. throw he's made great throws but he's not the best passer in the league obviously he runs he gets it done however he has to get it done yeah but I think that's a big part of why he's ranked lower this whole little group right here Sam Darnold who won the Super Bowl the Prince although we like make fun of him they won 13 days he's 50 MVP voting yes not nothing Jaylon Hertz has one it bent it two Super Bowls won a Super Bowl and

And just because I knew you were doing Jalen Hertz, I did a little thing on Bownex. Wow. Someone needs to ride for Bow Nix because I think they're all cut from the same cloth. Here's the executive quote about Bo Nix. Just as easily he can win games for you, he can lose games for you. Okay. I'd like to see it at some point if that's what you're going to say. Last year, full year, he lost to the Colts by a score of 20.

to 29. Then he lost to the Chargers 20 to 23 and then he lost to the Prince in what might have been outside of the comeback against Justin Herbert. His, I'd certainly say his best regular season performance that win in Denver. One of them. He's had so many great ones. No, I'm talking about in the pros though, not going back to Georgia high school. So he said three losses by a total of 18 points. No one thought I said if If I came on, say, you know who's going to win the AFC West? Bo Nicks and the Broncos. Nobody would agree.

If I said, you know what? Not only that, it's going to win the entire AFC. Nobody would say it. And you know if I had another prediction, he's going to go into the playoffs. You know what I think he's going to outplay? Josh Allen. Josh Allen. And he did all of it.

So, but here's what. But who are you putting in my head? The, a lot of the guys. Who are you moving in my head of? Well, I don't want to have to put out someone else's candle. That's why they're on tears. He's going to put him ahead of candy. But I'm interested in all those names.

If you won the AFC, I have to look at it. Well, he won the NFC. I don't think you're, are you putting him ahead of party? I'm sorry, well, I'm sorry. Well, Bornex won the entire AACC. No, he didn't. Drake may did. He had the number one C.

You're not putting him ahead of Hertz. Darnold. He had a batch older. You're not putting him ahead of Hertz and Darnold. No, there's Super Bowl winners. I don't think you're putting him ahead of Brock. He might put him ahead of Baker. Jay.

You got to be ahead of Jada. So, can you got to be ahead of Baker? You have to. Baker's been good in the playoffs too when he's playing. Yeah. I like big. That's the thing I don't want to. Am I putting him my head of Caleb?

I'm just saying. I don't know. Are you moving him up at all? I don't know who you putting him out of it. So here is what I find. And it might just be, what do you call yourself, KW, the straw that stirs the drink? Yeah, I took that from Reggie Jackson or Reggie Jackson took it from me.

I don't remember. Oh. Every single reason you don't believe in the Bears. aside from defense. But the regression reasons. Sure. And the pulling it out of the fire. And how many times you were down,

apply to the Broncos. But like we showed those highlights that we were showing. If we could run that Bo Knicks rip again, I remember all these games because I was in such, oh, so that Colts game, as we mentioned, was a game they lost. The, we're about to show a highlight from, the Chiefs game, which was

the Chief's game against Chris Oludukin on Christmas, one of the saddest games of my life that they needed a, this was a last second to hold on to win against the Chief's fourth string. The Washington

game we're about to show is the game, remember that Marriota came in and had a two-point conversion to beat them and dirted it. Like there were this game here. It was a lot of comeback. It was a lot of, skin of your teeth, crazy comebacks.

It was the game, who were they playing? The Giants? No, it was the Eagles. The Eagles game when they scored like 23 straight or whatever it was at the end of the game. They were down.

It's a little Caleb E where it's like, if you do it enough, do we start to push luck out? Right. But it is as far as what we think they're going to be moving forward. He's not AJ Brown, but Jalen Waddle is a real weapon

to all of a sudden. doesn't add. The defense is going nowhere, and I think they have a real home field advantage. So I... And again, I'm not the Bow Nix guy. No, but they could be good at that arrived. But I, and I know this is very hard for you because you are such a quarterback win zealot. Just a zealot. Yes. Radical. Yeah. But this is not a team's ranking. And they play for the team.

Oh, no. But when we ask the board. Purdy or Caleb thing. You were like, I think the Niners will be better. And we were talking about Bo Nix. You gave all these reasons the Broncos will be good. You got to lead the team. Listen, I think that Bo Nix has, it is stunning to me, how bad he is early in games, and to instantly become, he was awesome late in that playoff game.

There is nothing I value more than quarterback performance in the postseason. He actually wasn't that good throughout. big portions of that game. But late in that game, he was spectacular. And when Josh, that picked Josh through an overtime. Remember, it was down on his own 10-yard line. Like, Bo Nix had to drive the length of the field and he did it. And so I will give him credit for that.

With all that said, I think if I were doing my own ranking, this is about where he'd come in. I don't have him as above-average quarterback. I don't have him in the top 16. Well, Holmes Mountain, a week from today, according to Dusty. Yeah, that's correct. Real Canadian Superstore has everything you need this back-to-school season. Save on lunchbox savers like Ziggy's sliced deli-meat products for always 375.

And get Life Brand Pure Vita shampoo or conditioner for $8 each. At Real Canadian Superstore, when you're ready, we're ready, with a whole world and more. Sunday on Fox, we're back. IndyCar, full throttle, pillow in Portland, 4 Eastern, only on Fox. KW is singing along right there. It's great. Can we clear that song, Hubs?

We just did. We just played it. Jalen Brown debuted his very tight Sixers jersey and talked about the process that led him to his new team. Take a listen. I'm more inspired to win than anything because I feel like I've been a little bit

disrespected in this process for whatever reason for people that I thought valued me and everything that I brought to the team in the city. I found out quickly that. that may or may not be the case. So I want to win more than anything. So I'm looking forward to that journey, that approach, the leadership, the sacrifice,

and whatever is gonna take. Sacrifice was an interesting. What's your take on that? So I have a somewhat complex take that I'll try to explain quickly. My opinion on Jalen Brown's exit from Boston has evolved with the information we received, which was, I love, looked at it as with

Jalen initially with Jalen saying this is my favorite season. Togg, all those things. I thought he did a little too not quite enough. Man, we sure missed Tatum. Can't wait until he gets back. You know, all of that. You think that contributed to the time. Well, I thought, I thought there was a lot of reason to believe that

he Stone just wanted his own team. That that, and that was the leading factor to his exit. Now that it's been reported that the Celtics were shopping him at the deadline, the, to Golden State or elsewhere, it informs, okay, whether he wanted his own team or not, the Celtics seemed to be ready to be exiting the Jalen Brown business, and how much of that

was about they thought, well, he's going to want to be 30 points per game moving forward. Those might not be as aligned as I first thought. So that's the first thing. Second thing is, I think Jalen is, as we've talked about, obviously a very thoughtful guy and obviously a very prideful guy. And I am certain, as he alludes to there, he has heard what's been said about him all summer by people being like, you know, believe it or not, not good.

Actually, as it turns out, you're better off he hurts you. I know you think he helps you, actually, he hurts you. Baylor Shireman, good, Jalen Brown, bad. Oh, they win all those games. Hugo Gonzalez. Hugo Gonzalez is good. Untouchable. You don't need to burn out.

You go candle. Build the entire plane around Derek White, but Jalen Brown, no good. I think for a guy as thoughtful as him and as aware of what's being said about him, if I were him, I'd realize, oh, well, so scoring, I just had my best statistical season ever,

and people said I was no good. Like, I can't outscore my way out of this, you know, whatever bucket people are placing me in. What I can do is, do what I say and the stats back me up I've done my whole career, win, which is win and be a part of winning, which leads me to the point I alluded to yesterday. I think Jalen Brown's best,

I think the way for the Sixers to win the best is for Jalen Brown to every night take on their toughest defensive assignment and to Jalen Brown not have the ball in his hands a ton because he is of everyone in their starting lineup. I think he's the worst ball handler and the worst passer. I think those are the two weakest parts of his game. I think he's a plus in almost everything except for those two things.

And so I think he will have to be willing to have the stats drop significantly. What is that? Tell me what that is. 21? Oh, 21. He only averaged 22 in 2025. Yeah, no, right. In 23.

I'm saying drop, we were dropping a way down. No, no, no. Yeah, to drop a little more than 20 points per game. and the usage dropped significantly. Or the usage has to drop. And I think in a weird way, at least temporarily, he might be totally fine with that as a way to be like, I'm a show, prove everyone wrong for what,

not that everyone was saying this about him, but what the kind of narrative had become about him quickly over the summer. I don't think winning, he's won his entire career. How many conference finals? Six, at least six conference finals. No one's won more games. one championships he's got the most wins since he's been in the league. Look, they all, every single star player on that team and in the role players is just what you do,

has to sack. They all should be at a mindset of sacrificing statistics to win. That's the only chance this has of working. And the guy that needs to set the tone is the 41-year-old, LeBron. He needs to go in there and preach two things. Sacrifice is all about winning. defense because Maxie can be a good defender he's got obviously all the physical needs he had to be one edgecombe has already shown some and can be really good brown can is good is good

and can you know can do that so lebron needs to preach those two things to them and they really need to have four i don't know if it's possible four or five guys between 16 and 24 points a game Nobody needs to be averaging more than 24 points a game, and nobody needs to be dominating the ball. These guys don't need Maxi to set them up for shots. They don't need LeBron to set them up for shots. All those guys can get their own shots. That's why I said move the basketball, egalitarian, have the players move, and whoever gets it, take it, do your thing. That's how they have to play.

I don't think Jalen's going to be happy if it's like, Jalen, you be the role player. I wouldn't be happy. He's a star. When you're a star, you want to be a star. Yeah, I want to win, but I want to be a star. Michael Jordan said, I want to win, but I want to be the reason we win. And LeBron understands that as well as that fine line between, yeah, winning, but also being an individual star. He understands that more than anybody.

He's done it all. He doesn't have anything else to do in that regard, but the other guys do. he got he has to understand how maxie jaylin edgecombe feel like yeah i want to win brian but i also want to do my thing so you that's a fine line for all them to walk there'll be a hard chemistry test and it's easier said than done and if everyone's sacrificing and you're winning sure yeah but it will start to flare up lose three games in a row lose you know four out of five and like hey jelan how's it going you're only average in, you know, 17 in this last five games, what answer are you going to get on the stream? So, well, on the stream is interesting. You know, I mean, that part is interesting. I also

think, I just, I think, I don't think they're going to have a bunch of lose four out of five. Like, I mean, I just think like good teams don't have a bunch of bad stretches. You have a couple, but, like, I said the, they're over under's 50 and a half wins. I, I mean, I just think, like, I I said today, I penciled them in for 54 and 28. Like, I think they're going to be really good. And so I think some of this will... You think they're going to be really good right away? Because it feels like sometimes we get enamored on this show when trades happen, free agent signs happen.

We get a little bit... Yeah, excited. Excited. And we over... I don't know. On paper, we're like... Damon Janus. They should be able to win a lot of games.

I mean, I just looked at it. I would have thought the Sixers, I was thinking about picking me. the Sixers to win the East before they replaced Dean Wade in the starting lineup with LeBron James. You know what I mean? I think Jalen Brown, as good as Paul George was at the end of last year, I think Jalen Brown's better than Paul George. I think that's pretty obvious at this point in his career. Maxie is at least still slowly ascending.

He might have reached close to his prime. Edgecombe's going to be a lot better. And I, this whole conversation we haven't mentioned Embeddeed. Like, I don't think, I think they need Embeddeed to win the championship. I don't think they need Embed to win 50 games. I do think dropping Embed in is where it can get clunky. Because you mentioned how all these guys can defend. Embed used to be able to.

Now he can't move as well. Embedd can't do much without the ball. That part, that's going to be Nick Nurse's biggest hurdle. Is Nick Nurse figuring out how to... Because you saw last year they played totally differently. Of course. Yeah. Because everybody else wants to run.

Bron, as he's got older, wants to run more.