First Things First - Mendoza not QB1 yet, Herbert impresses, Kevin Mawae joins, Will Aaron Rodgers stay the starter?

Episode Date: August 28, 2026

(0:00) Mendoza not named starting QB for Raiders yet, Is Justin Herbert already in-form? (25:44) Browns QB battle ‘a mistake’, Will Aaron Rodgers stay the Steelers’ starter? (39:25) Will Aaron Donald start Week 1 for the Rams? (46:10) Hurts interceptions ‘not an issue’, Are the Packers Super Bowl contenders? (01:04:36) Okay with the Bears doing trick plays at practice? (01:15:47) Kevin Mawae joins Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I'm from New York. It's the show that's got dueling hype trains running wild. Did you see Justin Herbert's touchdown pass last night? Who said preseason is meaningless? And also viral videos of trick plays and bears joint practices. Who's got two thumbs and is excited? This guy. I'm Danny Parkins alongside Jeff Schwartz and joining us on remote.

We got Greg Jennings and Greg, we really appreciate you being here. But we're not the only ones who appreciate a Greg Jennings. Take a listen to Jim Harbaugh after the game. I really appreciate Greg Jennings. Yeah, randomly. Now, is it possible that he was also talking about a Gary Jennings and a Greg DeRosey and he just got his wires crossed?

It's possible, Greg, but maybe he was just shouting you out. Isn't that nice? I loved it. I literally in the show, we'll talk about it, but everybody needs to Jim Harbaugh. I guess I got him on my side, too. He loves you. He loves you. We saw that post game. We were like, are Greg Jennings?

Absolutely. No. We go way way back. Way way back. Mr. Derozier. Let's get to today's show. Today, we just talked about it. Now let's watch it.

Hoof. It's beautiful. It went so far in the air. Clint Johnson doesn't have to break stride. It's going to be big in L.A. We'll discuss. Should have been A-1. Meanwhile, a lot of headlines coming out of Eagles camp about Jalen Hurts

and all the interceptions he's throwing. But one of his teammates is like, you know what? Kind of digging all the interceptions from my quarterback. It's both strategy cotton. And finally, my guy, Ben Johnson. It's not worried about opening up the entire playbook for a joint practice with the Titans. Should he be keeping some of these trick plays

a little bit more secret? Maybe, maybe not. But Greg, I assume you're expecting big things from our guy, Ben Johnson. Yes? Look, of course. I think a little bit of everything. Everyone is expecting big things.

So we'll see what it looks like come week one. That's how many trick plays he has. He's just giving away in joint practice. But we begin in Vegas. It's a great place to begin. Fernando Mendoza did not look very good at all. In five drives last night, Mendoza 7 of 14 passing for only 57 yards, no touchdowns, and yet another interception.

Also was sacked twice. Here's Mendoza reacting to his performance and Clint Kubiak on if he's ready to name a starting quarterback. us. It's the NFL. There's, they like it or not, there are, you know, monsters at the other side of the ball. And you need to get the ball out quick. And it teaches you that you need to play on time and there's less margin for error. I still don't think we need to name anybody. You know, we got a lot of talk about at a lot of positions. He needs another three preseason games. You know, all those rookies do. And now that the season's starting, you know, that, you know,

the practice reps get smaller and that's just, that's just life. All right, let's take a look at Mendoza's preseason. Unfortunately for him, the arrow's kind of been trending down. Looked great in that game against Arizona. Then he had the brutal pick six on the late throw against the Texans. And then just a pretty ugly night, honestly, last night against the Niners. So Jeff, I'll start with you then. We'll go to Greg.

When should the Raiders? Not Will. When should the Raiders make Mendoza QB1? Yesterday I came on here and said they should do it immediately based on information that we had, right? I believe quarterbacks that are ready to play should play. It shouldn't matter about their offensive line or their skill guys or this and that. If they're ready to play

as a young guy, they should play. We've said many examples where quarterbacks that are first overall picks play immediately and do well. Cam Noon, Herbert. Herbert, actually, second game. We saw Joe Burr, I should say. Tua, Andrew Luck. These guys come in immediately, Trevor Lawrence, and play well.

But last night, it gives you a little bit of pause, right? I think we saw that ambitious throw that he had. It was a good try, but I think it was a little bit off right. A lot of checkdowns. He had a couple of throws we saw from Indiana, those back shoulder fades. It didn't really work. One was

interception. He just looked Greg a little uncomfortable last night. And I think that the biggest tell was that he had, Kurt Cousson start this game, right? Like that was the biggest tell that they're going with Cousins early on. I think Mendoza is probably not ready yet. I probably have to backtrack on my thoughts

on him. Yeah, look, I'm always of the mentality that if you have a veteran presence that can start and allow you to have some time where your rookie, whether it be a number one overall pick or a first rounder who is capable of playing, sit and see what it needs to look like. If it's going well for Kurt, great. If it's not, then you insert them and you find a way to allow him to get those experienced reps. However, when you look at their schedule, like if you start them now, then you got to ride you got to ride it out to the end of the season.

So I don't think that that's something that they're willing to do right out the gate, even though you start with the dolphins and you got the saints on that schedule. But if you allow him to see what it needs to look like, watch Kurt from the sideline, watch them come off the field and make in-game adjustments, have conversations with Clint Kubiak in the offense court. These are things that you're going to gain. experiences versus just throw him in there and now he has to do it right away when you have someone who's capable of showing him what it looks like and then let him finish the rest of the

seat the battle the second half of the season which as we look at that schedule it's not the easiest but there's some lightweights at the back end so i would start him sooner than later i think it's a tremendous advantage having kubiak there already so it's not like he's got to learn one system and then his coach is going to get fired. And, you know, he's going to have to unlearn what he learned with his coach that was on the hot seat. I think that's an advantage that he had that Caleb didn't have, that Bryce Young didn't have, that Cam Ward didn't have. So I think he has that going for him over number one picks. But undeniably, he was not very good last night.

What I would just want to caution people in this is people talk about Kirk Cousins like he is some sort of sure thing. And I know that he has looked good in a few drives in the preseason. He was not good last year. They won games down the stretch. One game, he was excellent. The game against Tampa, where it was a 29, 28 shootout, and he had like 340 yards and three touchdowns. He was excellent in that game.

In the nine other games that Kirk Cousins played in, he had over 200 passing yards in one of them, and he had seven touchdowns and five picks, again, outside of that Tampa game. So I am not at all convinced that, like, Kirk Cousins gives them a much better chance to win right now than Fernando Mendoza. I don't think this is a playoff team with Mendoza. I don't think it's a playoff team with Cousins.

So if Cousins is marginally ahead of Mendoza right now, fine. I get it. That's conventional wisdom. You're going to start the veteran. But I would not be looking to the second half of that schedule. If we put it back up again, Dust, if you don't mind, the Chiefs don't have a pass rush. Week four. The Bills don't have much of a run defense.

Week six. I would still be looking to get the vast majority of the work for Mendoza in this schedule. Then he can have a buy week later to kind of reset his season. I would still be looking for the vast majority of this season, Jeff, to go into Mendoza. I think you want to, you want to see where he's at to end the year, right? Because then you know adjustments you have to make either schematically or personnel-wise to get him the most out of him in year two. Cousins won't play because he's helping them win. and he'll just play because Mendoza's not ready to play yet.

But I will say this. If you don't play Mendoza week one, is he your backup? Or is O'Connell your backup? Because let's say he gets hurt week one and Mendoza's got to play. If he's not ready to play, then he shouldn't dress, right? Gregor, he should sit out and you wait until he's ready to play. My argument's always been. If he's ready to play, if you feel comfortable enough to make him your backup quarterback,

where the first play of the game, you tear your Achilles, and he comes, and you're fine with it, then they start him the first play of the season. If he's not ready yet, then don't have him active, right? Or have him to be, you know, how to be the third string quarterback. So that's where the Raiders are at. I think Cousins is in the start. But if you do think he's good enough right now to come in as a backup, he's probably good enough to start for you.

So I agree with a lot of what you said. I do believe that you allow him to dress and he's your backup. Because I don't think you're going to say, oh, Kirk Cousins, if he goes down, then we're going to go to O'Connell. We're not doing that. it's, I do agree what you said. They're not trying to start Kirk Cousins to win and to have this playoff run. It's not even about that.

It's to me, anytime you have a veteran guy, I'll go back to it. And he has an opportunity, the young guy, to see what it looks like, even if it's not all great, even if it doesn't equate to wins, there are things that Kurt can do right now where he is as a savvy veteran and experienced veteran that Mendoza just can't. And he can learn from that are not things that he would get in practice, in a joint practice. It's game ready opportunity. And so I would have him backing up Kurt Cousins because, again, he is going to be the

face of your franchise. And so if he does, if he's not ready to start, you don't have to start him. But then if injury happened, which happens across all 32, teams, then he has to go. So I will bring up a Chicago example, and it's not exactly apples to apples, but it's pretty close. I was covering Mitch Drabisky when he was the number two pick in the draft. Now, he did not have as much experience as Mendoza did in college. He was obviously a one-year starter. But the Bears signed Mike Glennon. They gave him a ton of money, and they're like,

we don't want Trubisky to play. We want him to learn. We want him to sit. We want him to just get the experience from the sidelines. And through the first four games of the season, Mike Glennon led the league in turnovers, and because John Fox was on the hot seat, they felt the public pressure to play Tribisky. And it was a disaster. And I'm not saying that if they had not done that, Trubisky would be some all-worlds quarterback right now. But I think it clearly stunted his development. So I, Greg, I tend to be with Jeff. Like, if Mendoza is not ready, I don't want him playing because in theory he's not ready enough to stunt the development. Like I, I want my decision on Mendoza to be solely based on Mendoza and not based on external circumstances like an

injury or bad play to Kirk Cousins? And that's fine. But if he's getting these reps, even in the preseason, there's a reason why you're providing him with all these reps. You want to see, is he your week one starter? Is he capable of being your week one starter? And if he's not, is he even capable of being your number two, your backup? over O'Connell. And so when you look at what they're trying to accomplish, it's pretty simple, if you ask me. It's we want him to sit for a period of time.

Who knows that period? They do. We don't. However, if something was to go awry, if we got derailed and we needed him to play, is he capable? Do we trust that he can run our offense and he can grow from it? I believe the answer to that is yes.

It'll be interesting. because I think we all agree that Cousins is going to start. It'll be interesting if Mendoza makes his start because of Cousins' bad play and losses. Because to me, if it's like Mendoza's now ready, but the Raiders are 4 and 0, or 5 in 1 or whatever, but Mendoza's ready, I still would play Mendoza. And it just doesn't seem like that's ever how it goes. I would be making the decision on Mendoza based on his timeline, not Kirk Cousins. But let's go out to Los Angeles where Justin Herbert saw very limited action.

last night, but he got his money's worth. 65-yard bomb to Quentin Johnston that he called the night. Now, after the game, Jim Harbaugh was asked about that long. Touchdown passes, and this is going to shock you guys. He enjoyed it. It was good. I mean, I was like, it was wow. Double wow.

Double wow. It's better than wow. Double wow. Greg, last night, a sign of things to come for Justin Herbert? You sure hope so. Look, at number one, everybody needs, and I said this in the open, everyone needs a Jim Harbaugh. Like a double while one play, you scripted it,

and they probably had one possession. We're going to go, we're going to roll out our starters. You get the first possession. You call up a shot play. It actually gets executed, and now you're done. You don't run any risk of anybody having an injury. but this is exactly what you want. If you are Mike McDaniel in that offense,

you want to be able to show that you can strike right away. We know Justin Herbert can make any and every throw. He has a unbelievable looking deep ball. Why not use and showcase his entire skill set as a quarterback? I think we're going to be in for a treat this year with the new coordinator look. I have to imagine Mike McDaniel thought he died and went to heaven watching this throw. right? I mean, he spent so many years with a quarterback that could make this throw, right? I mean, this is part of every offense, right? A post and probably a dig somewhere there on the same side, right? Like, he probably had not seen this, Greg, in his entire time in Miami.

A throw this good, this far, this deep. I know people say, well, it's against the backups. Well, Herbert can make this talking to starters, too. It's more of just a proof of concept that this can happen. But I want you guys to look at this play again, we start to over again. Watch the protection. This is the best protection he has had in so long. Joe Alder, right, tackle, the interior offensive line, Slater's not been playing right now. If you give Justin Herbert this pocket, right, where he is nowhere, there's no one within three, four yards of him, he will do this the entire season, right? So the plays are going to be drawn up for him to have success. He's got to make the throws, and the offense line's got to do their job.

Now, this is all great in the regular season. We talk about us all the time with Herbert. The bar is now, does this happen in the postseason? We know it can do this in the regular season. Does it happen in the postseason? And I say all the time about the preseason, right? check the box. That was a check the box play, right?

Herbert can throw the ball deep. We got our wide receiver deep. The offensive line did a good job against the backups. Check the box. Move to week one. It was awesome. It really was. And this is going viral on the internet.

And we had Josh look it up and confirm it. So Mike McDaniel was the head coach and play caller in Miami for four years. He was the OC in San Francisco for one. Obviously not calling the plays because they got a guy by the name of Kyle Shanahan. But five years as a guy. an OC play caller head coach combination. He had exactly, because that ball was 48 yards in the air. He had exactly zero plays for touchdowns that went 48 or more yards in the air.

It took Justin Herbert seven preseason plays. So five years happened zero times for Mike McDaniel, preseason once in seven plays, five passes. The idea of this excellent leader in Jim Harbaugh, who wants to run the football, and this brilliant play designer, offensive mad genius who wants to run the football and Mike McDaniel being paired up with this all-world 99 percentile

armed talents quarterback who gives you all three levels of the football field for your passing game to play off of your running game. The possibilities do seem limitless for this team. Is it the best group of skill position guys in the NFL? No, but it's good enough. Ladd McConkey is good. Quentin Johnson's a former first round pick who's been a bit of a disappointment, but is talented.

Omar Ian Hampton looked excellent last year. Arguably the best tackle duo in the NFL when healthy. A revitalized offensive line. This is an offense that has a very high ceiling with that brain trust at coaching staff and then of course that talent at quarterback, Greg. Yeah, you talked about the skill guys. And when we look at this play, we see obviously Quentin Johnson being rewarded. but this is what he's going to have to do.

This is what they're going to depend on him to do. And this is one of his strengths. If you watch them in college, I know if you watch them any through the course of his short career, it hasn't looked great. But what he has shown is he can be a deep threat receiver. And with them having the run game that you talk about, and now you descriptively showed us the offensive line protection.

I don't care who they were up against, ones, two, threes. It doesn't matter. it was a clean pocket. He's going to have these opportunities and Ladd-McConkie coming across and underneath the middle. They're going to have opportunities

because of a single high coverage they're going to see from weekend and week out because of the threat of running the ball. So I like what this looks like. You talked about proof of concept, Jeff. This is proof of concept and it's transferable when the season starts. The joy of this offense

and really one of the benefits of it, and this is across the NFL the run this offense. It's like, formationally, they put you in a great spot to have success running the football. And the payoff is the deep play action pass, right? As you show one thing over and over again, you get some eye candy with some motions and movements, and then boom, you hit him with this deep pass. This offense has not always had a quarterback of the caliber of Herbert to execute some of the concepts that they have. They've obviously had MVP's playing this offense before, but Herbert has the ability to be that guy. Not saying to win the MVP,

but to be that guy in this offense. You combine hardball's ability. to run the football or really the desire to do so with McDaniel's ability to formation, set things up for success. And that's a secret sauce of adding Herbert into this offense. Also, I mean, just. The throw is great. It's just a little flick of the wrist, man. Oh, dude, he's got a canon.

But you think about it, like, that it's not to be mean. I mean, it's literally a throw to a cannot make. I'm not saying that, like, there are other guys in the NFL who can, Mahomes can make that throw, Allen can make that throw, Caleb can make that throw. There are plenty of guys that can, that it can throw the ball 48 yards in the air. But just like the lack of effort and windup that it takes for him to be able to do that, it does take the ceiling off of defense all of those things.

But that's why those clips that were going around of Mike McDaniel just kind of being wowed by him, he's literally never been around a player like that. He hasn't. And if you include the, again, the improved offensive line and the weapons might be better in this offense, right? They might improve with better coaching. So there's a possibility that Johnson does reach his full potential. at some point next couple of years. All right, so to the other side of that matchup,

the Rams chose to start Ty Simpson, and once again, the rookie delivered a very good performance. He went 18 of 23 passing, 119 yards, and a touchdown. Here's Sean McVeigh on the 13th overall pick in this year's draft. Take a listen. I thought the quarterbacks, I thought Ty played really well tonight. Going into it, you know, I wouldn't look too far into what that was. It was just continuing to get him experience.

We've got three quarterbacks on our roster. Obviously, we've got the reigning MVP of the league. And then we've got two guys that we feel really good about. Not pigeonholing myself into any sort of decision other than I feel really good about Stetson Bennett. Feel really good about Ty Simpson. All right. Here's a look at how Ty Simpson has performed this preseason. Those numbers, they're excellent.

The only one that I would highlight, not to highlight the negative, but that you wouldn't love, 6.4 yards per pass. It's been a lot of horizontal. stuff, a lot of checkdowns, a lot of, you know, first level type throws. But Greg, I'll start with you. We did a lot of draft stuff together this offseason. Has Ty Simpson this preseason justified the 13th overall pick? Well, look, in terms of him having the opportunity to play in the preseason and what we would hope it should look like for a top number one or a first round, top 15 pick at quarterback position, absolutely. If you put those numbers,

up. I don't mind the 6.4 yards per throw because what it shows me is they're allowing him to take this step by step. We're going to give you the easy throws and we expect, if you look at the completion percentage, we expect you to make throws, make those throws consistently at a high clip and he's been able to do that. And then you take it to the next phase, which is mid, mid range, and then down the field. All of those things, there are layers to progression when you're playing the quarterback position, any position for that matter,

but specifically the quarterback position. And he's been executing, Jeff. Like you talk about checking the box or red flags. We haven't seen a red flag, and partly because his coaches understand, we're going to put him in the best situations, we're going to mold this offense to what he does well when he's in and available,

and when the time comes and they hope it's after this year completely, then he'll be ready to go and we'll hand him the keys to the car and he'll drive it with no problems. We talked about this last week, Greg, and I think it applies again this week, right? A lot of teams do,

we're basically one or two things in the preseason, right? Like, we just run our offense, doesn't matter what the defense is doing. We're not really going to game plan. And we sort of, and then everyone's like, help our quarterback out. It does of the Rams have tried to give Simpson an opportunity to be good, right?

they've given an opportunity to run the plays that work for him. They've moved him out of the pocket a lot, right, early in the down. They've run the ball very well. Now, this out of structure play that we keep showing is sort of the next level, right? This is a great play. These are the plays that make the quarterbacks that are good to not great, but like above average, right? If you make these plays over there, these are the plays that are the special plays, right? Off script, off platform, he moves very well.

He got out of pocket very well. Those are the throws that take you from good to great, but he still is executed. the offense as designed for him. I give the Rams coaching a lot of credit for making sure that he's prepared to play in these games. And then, yes, he has played well. And look, they drafted him to hopefully not play for a couple years. But let's say Stafford's out for two weeks, three weeks.

He's got to play, right? I think they did a good job of getting him ready enough. Like, who do you feel more comfortable with playing right now? Simpson or Mendoza based off of the preseason? What, listen, I think, okay, that's interesting. Based on last night, I'm not sure that he's passed Stetson Bennett. on his own death chart. Stetson Bennett. Stetson Bennett's sad. Ty Simpson played. So I don't know if that means they just wanted to give the 13th pick

reps and he's going to be QB2 or if he's still backing up Stets and Bennett. All credit to Ty Simpson, he could not have done more this preseason. That throw is great. Those numbers are great. And I hate the pick a little less after they acquired Miles Garrett because they were still able to make a massive addition without using the huge draft capital to do it. So I I will give them credit. They still made an all-in move without making the 13th pick being additive to this year's team. But I look at Sean McVeigh as a tier one elite top of the, top-of-the-line coach. Just like I look at Kyle Shanahan.

Kyle Shanahan took Brock Purdy, the worst pick in the draft, and made him worth a couple hundred million dollars and had them on the way to a Super Bowl. I don't buy that Sean McVeigh needed Ty Simpson with the 13th pick in two or three years to be the heir apparent. Like if he already has him looking this good in three preseason games, I'm thinking he could have done that with some other less than ideal physical attribute-type talent quarterbacks. And I would personally rather have another offensive lineman protecting Matt Stafford in an all-in year or another wide receiver as an insurance policy to Pooka Nacua and Devante Adams in a an all-in year or another defensive tackle if Aaron Donald doesn't come back in an all-in year. I still don't love the process for this, even if Greg Ty Simpson's been very impressive in the

preseason. Yeah, but I'll go back to what Jeff asked. Like, if they've been asked he and Mendoza to do two totally different things, he knows he's not going to be starting. He's not, that's not in question. So when you approach a preseason game with Ty Simpson, it's going to look different versus when Clint Kubiak is approaching a game with a potential guy who can be running my entire playbook. So I'm not going to baby step him.

I am going to introduce him to things, but I need to see can he handle the full meal, not just the precursor, the appetizers, what we're seeing with Ty Simpson. And that's no disrespect to Ty Simpson. But if he was being one of those guys we are looking at as a quarterback, competition to start week one, I think we would be challenged a little bit more to run more of their playbook. All right, coming up, we are going to talk Steelers and Greg's old teammate Aaron Rogers and whether or not he's going to make it through the whole season. Mike McCarthy talking about keeping four quarterbacks on the roster. You see that happen every few years. Weird situation

in Pittsburgh. We'll get into it. Coming up, first things first. Predictions week just around the corner. We're going to be grinding the film, throwing out my pencils, taking my pens in, and lock it in. Checking the OT 5 Eastern Monday all next week. Tell you where I have this season going. Greg, I plan to see the NFL very clearly this year. Now let's head to Buffalo, where the Steelers played their final preseason game with Drew Aller and Will Howard splitting quarterback duties. Now, after the game, Mike McCarthy was asked if all four quarterbacks on his team, that includes Mason Rudolph and of course Aaron Rogers, have earned a roster spot. Take a listen. I think that's a very accurate evaluation on your part.

Yeah, I feel good about the quarterback room. I've been saying it for quite some time. They've showed it on the field. So, you know, we've got two veterans that we can win with, and we've got two young guys that we're real excited about their future. All right. Now, this puts a very interesting situation on the horizon here for Greg's former coach and teammates.

So our question is, what are the chances Rogers does not finish the season as the Steelers starter? But Greg, I want to paint you a picture before you answer the question, okay? Let's say it goes poorly for the Steelers this year. Six and ten, seven, and nine. And they're headed into that week 18 game at Baltimore. And Baltimore has already locked up a playoff spot. So you can't even say we want to play spoiler for our division opponent, because the Ravens are locked into the one seed

or they've locked up the AFC North and they're going to be the two or three seed. So Baltimore's sitting guys and you've got nothing to play for. Is it not on the table that in that scenario, Pittsburgh eliminated, can't play spoiler, Baltimore locked into a playoff spot resting guys

that it would be in the best interest of the Steelers to play third round pick Drew Allard or former fifth round pick Will Howard over First Ballot Hall of Famer and your old teammate Aaron Rogers and that's how he ultimately ends his career on the sideline watching a rookie. That would be tough.

But if they are in that situation and you've painted the beautiful picture, you got to see what it looks like in real time for one of those young guys moving forward. You just got to after watching the entire season not go the way that you would have hoped. Now, answering the course, that's in front of us, I think Aaron Rogers finishes the season, simply because when you watch

how he plays the quarterback position right now, he just simply gets rid of the ball. He's going to check into quick plays that can eliminate the pass rush if he doesn't feel like they have it picked up, or if he's not trusting their O-line protection. So I think he's found ways, and he showed that to us last season that he can get rid of the ball out of his hands and he can last for 18 weeks of a grueling season without taking a bunch of hits. But if the picture that you painted is on the board and they are trying to sell that to fans, if I'm a Pittsburgh fan, I'm buying it and I want to see one of these young guys so I can see what our future possibly may look like. The only way he gets bench as if they're out of the playoff front, like you said.

That's the only way, right? He's not what he used to be, but he's also not even close to bad enough to bench. He won't be this year. I don't think Rogers would come back to play football if he thought he was anywhere close to being benched for a young quarterback and sort of, it's not really embarrassing, but not the way he wanted to end his career, right, sitting on the sideline week 11 as Drew Aller is taking snaps in front of him, right? And you look at what they've done to improve the offense.

He's in a familiar offense now with McCarthy as well. He's going to play well enough to not get bench. He's going to play well to help them win some football games. Is he the quarterback he used to be? No, he's not. He's also not. I feel like Rogers would either think he's like the best ever or people think he's really, really terrible right now.

He's sort of in the middle right now in his career. He's one of the best to ever do it. But right now he's just in the middle, Greg. He's right in the middle. And that's good enough for them to win eight to 10 games, maybe seven games. But he's never going to be bad enough to be benched. And unless he gets hurt, he's not losing the job until the other plus.

Once out of the playoffs, it makes total sense to play one of the young guys and see what they have moving forward. But I will caution you guys again. We love the late round pick becoming an NFL superstar, right? It happens at other positions outside of quarterback. It rarely happens in quarterback. I don't expect Jew Al or Will Howard to become some superstar, but the Steelers owe it to themselves if they're out of the playoffs to let those guys play. Yeah, look, I'm with you.

But I'm not, if I'm Aaron Rogers and I'm looking at this offense and I'm looking at, what they put around me at the receiver position, all offensive line position, they paid the tight end. Like defensively, you don't worry about that. You kind of trust that side of the ball to do what they do.

It is on you. They're bringing you back because this is an organization, Danny, and you hate this. They don't look to bottom out. They don't look to tank. They look to the foreseeable playoff future

and then say, we can get there and we can possibly see what happens when we're in the dance. And so if you're Aaron Rogers, that's exactly how you're approaching this season. You understand that, look, I have a skill set. And partly his skill set now has teetered over to more of his mind and being able to put that offense in positions to then be in the right plays, understanding he can still make those same throws, doesn't have the same athletic ability,

but because he has so much in his head in terms of how he can dissect the defense, he is head and probably waste and head, waste above everybody else in that quarterback room simply because of all of his experience. So for me, it's about the playoffs.

They have to get to the postseason and they have to win the game. They're not going to tank. They're not going to insert one of these young quarterback midway through the season, even if it's not going great. I would just like to quote the great philosopher, Tom Cruise in the 80s classic cocktail, everything ends badly, otherwise it wouldn't end. Like, maybe, maybe Aaron Rogers gets to end the Pittsburgh Steelers playoff drought

and win a playoff game and play all 17 games in the regular season, win a playoff game, and ride off into the sunset. Another world is Bengals and Ravens' lap them in the division, and they stumble to a losing record in Pittsburgh, and it gets a little awkward in December of, okay, we're out of it. Do we really have it in us to bench one of the five greatest quarterbacks in the history of the sport? And oh, by the way, the guy who has to do it is the guy who he played over a decade with in Green Bay and they won a Super Bowl together. Like, that is a potential ending to this story that I think people haven't really entertained

the possibility of here if things go poorly in Pittsburgh. Let's stay in the AFC North, though, and go to Cleveland, where the Browns destroyed the Patriots in the preseason, thanks to Dylan Gabriel. Dylan Gabriel was carving him up. 12 of 15, 186 yards, lots of things in dunks, but three touchdowns. Here is Todd Munkin and his effusive praise on Dylan Gabriel's night. That's great for him. I mean, I know it's been hard. I mean, let's be real about it, you know.

He's a prideful guy's had a lot of success in his career. and all he does is prepare. He can really operate. I mean, he gets it. He gets what we want to do. He has a certain confidence about him when he takes the field. And I'm fired up.

We had a chance to meet a little bit for the game and talk about the things he wanted to get called, what he felt comfortable with. It's like having a coach. All right, now there's a lot of numbers on your screen here, so I want to have these sit up for a minute. Let's take a look at all three Browns quarterbacks

and how they performed in the preseason. Now, I know that preseason stats, grain of salt. Statistically, Dylan Gabriel running away with this non-competition, this competition he was not even invited to. So my question to you, Jeff, was it a mistake to not have Dylan Gabriel, former third round pick,

compete with Deshawn Watson and your fifth round pick, Shadour Sanders? The mistake was them drafting two quarterbacks in the same class last year. That was a mistake. The issue with any competition is reps, right? Is reps. You need reps to compete.

Greg, there's no reps in camp anymore. Where are they going to compete with three quarterbacks in training camp? You have to pick your guys early in camp to give the reps to. Can you imagine a quarterback competition where there's six practices in a week, which is the max that you can have? And two, two, and two for the ones, you never get anything done. So they picked, we're going to pick Sanders and we're going to pick Watson to battle this out. Gabriel's the third string guy.

Obviously Todd Muckin spoke very highly of him. I think he likes him as an older veteran in that room, even though he's not a veteran in the NFL, but he's an older quarterback. And we're just going to have him in that room to help Sanders and I'm sure they're buddies and they get along. But you can't have a competition at that position with three different guys.

There's not enough time for each one to get an opportunity to show what they can do. Yeah, Jeff, you're absolutely right. Look, what I heard when I was listening to Todd Monkin was a head coach that, it was out of his hands. It was completely out of his hands. Because when you listen to what he said

in terms of a coach, just like having a coach, he gets the operation. He understands exactly what we want to do. Like, he ran it. If you're, if you're Dylan Gabriel, you are prideful.

You have a level of pride about you because of what you were able to accomplish not only in, well, in college, but even when you're in practice, you're watching your peers and you watching the quarterback, competition unfold and you're just understanding exactly what you said, Jeff. I'm not even getting an opportunity.

And the opportunities that I do get, they're so minimal because the reps aren't even there on the table for me. And so therefore, he's just the odd man out. And he showed last night that, you know what, I should have been. I'm better than these two. And everybody's going to know it after I get done playing. That's how you go out. and you say it with your play, not with your words.

And I am not here saying or banging the table that Dylan Gabriel is going to be a great NFL quarterback. I have just been banging. I have just been banging the table that there was no reason to believe necessarily that Shador Sanders was better than him based on where they were drafted. And in a true meritocracy without a lot of the noise and the nonsense, he probably should have been involved in this thing a little bit more. And now I think there's a real chance he's traded.

Not for a lot, but like conditional sixth round pick, conditional seventh round pick. How do you keep him if you're Cleveland? He just embarrassed Shador based on how he performed in the preseason. You're going to start Deshawn Watson. You're going to make this kid be your third stringer when you're about to draft a quarterback in the first round next year. You draft him with a third round pick. It was nonsensical at the time. Cut your losses.

Sunk cost fallacy. Try to get a sixth round pick back. for someone else who likes him, eat the three rounds of draft capital, and move on. My idea behind playing all those reps was a showcase for someone else in the NFL, right? That's what this week can be.

Exactly. It can be the other way, by the way, when I was young, and obviously it's different now. And the fourth game I was told as a rookie, you're not playing because we want to hide you to go on practice squad, right? They have to release you to put you back on practice squad.

So it goes both ways, right? Where you try to highlight players at the end of the preseason to get them reps to maybe get teams excited to trade for that time. type of guy or goes the other direction as well. So, you know, if you're a team that needs a backup that you can trust, maybe Gabriel's that guy for just a small fee of a seventh round pick. Yeah, look, I like exactly where you guys are going.

You hit it right there on Nell on the head, Jeff, when you talk about getting guys' opportunities to showcase themselves. In that third preseason game, these are guys that you know either aren't going to make your roster or you're telling them when you're in those meetings with them, look, go out and make another team's roster. Go out and make a name for yourself. Go put some great play on film so that somebody can come ringing the phone and saying, we want you on our roster wherever that may be. And he did that last night. And again, it was a lot of short intermediate stuff. It was a lot of rollouts and checkdowns, but there's no reason for that guy to be a Cleveland Brown once this

season starts backing up Shador Sanders, who's backing up to Sean Watson. Coming up on the other side, we've asked this question before. Will Aaron Donald be back for the Rams on week one? Sean McVey weighed in, and the update, Little Cryptic. Coming up, FTF. The Rams preseason wrapped up last night. The team, though, still does not know if former all-pro Aaron Donald intends to come out of retirement and join forces with Miles Garrett this season. Season starts soon. Sean McVeigh was asked where things stand

regarding Aaron Donald's return. Take a listen. I wish I had a little bit better, you know, ability to give you some clarity, but it's really one of those deals that, you know, what we're doing, we're focusing on this football team. Aaron knows that, hey, if he wants to be able to do that, that's something that we absolutely want to entertain

and be able to figure out. All right, there's not too many days until the season starts here. Greg. You're our resident fitness expert. I have watched these Aaron Donald on Instagram videos. Does not seem like a man who is just working out for fun. He's showing up at the facility. He's putting on pads. He's putting on shoulder pads. He's pushing sleds. He's wearing helmets. He's going back to the facility. I have been operating under the assumption that this is, yeah, he's going to be there week one. Is that what you still are expecting? So I'm not expecting him to be there week one. Look, I,

This is not for show. Aaron Donald will be a ram this year, and he's clearly coming back to put that helmet on and put his hand in the dirt. However, when you are at his age, his skill set, and you need more time, you're not jumping on the plane to go overseas in week one. Like, it's, I would wait. Oh, he just doesn't want to go. He doesn't want to go to Australia for 48 hours. Why am I going to jump into goal overseas to play week one when I can wait, come back. We got a home game against the Giants week two.

Let's do it then. His first came back after what, two, two, three years, flying down there, getting all sore, flying back 11 hours, your body's swelling up, you feel terrible for no purpose. Like that game doesn't get him ready to play in the playoffs. Aaron Donald's only role this year, right, is to play well down the stretch. And it's the postseason. That's why they would sign him. I think the Rams know what he's doing. I think this is not a situation where they're not connected on what's happening here.

I know exactly when he would like to come back. And maybe it's week four or five. He's definitely not flying. He's not flying to Australia. Like that's out of the question, not going to happen. And I think after that trip, he will come back at some point in the first month of the season to work him back in. And by the midpoint of the season, he'll be getting a lot more reps. And then he'll be ready to roll.

They play Seattle, what, I think week 16 and 18? Let's throw the schedule up here. Let's play guess Aaron Donald's debut game. So Greg, you're on the record week two at home against the Giants. And he just, he's like, I just didn't want to go to Melbourne. I mean, I would respect it, frankly. I would respect it. I think, so Buffalo, you see your home Buffalo, home Arizona, you go short flight to Vegas, home chargers.

I think it's that stretch. I think it's starting with the Buffalo game. Okay, so four games of minimal travel. He might be on the roster before then, but I think he plays against Buffalo. All right. Yeah, listen, I've been operating under the assumption that he's playing the whole season, but I'm embarrassed that I did not get to come up with the Melbourne take before Greg. I'll just say I watched a little bit more of that Sean McVeigh thing,

and maybe he was just playing coy because I'm not, he was talking about these things take time, and we want to be doing it on his schedule, and contracts take time. And I would just say, even though I think that this is 99.9% that he's coming back to the Rams, if I'm the bills, if I'm the Cowboys, if I'm the Bears, I'm at least making him tell me no. What if he is interested in a little bit extra money? You want to play for a contender and you want us to pay you more

and you also can come back in October? If you want, it's probably not going to happen because he wants to. Okay, I get it. But this is not a normal player. This is not a normal situation. I expect him to come back and be excellent. So I would at least make him tell me no, even though I expect him to be a ram in short order. Yeah, you don't even want to waste your time because it's an automatic, no.

If it's not the Rams, he wouldn't even be doing this. Jeff, you know this. And you know this too, Danny. Any decision you make, before you make that decision and it involves the entire family, the first person that you're going to run that by, is it Steph? Danny? Yes, Steph. We have a saying, you know, that,

we each get a vote. Her votes just counts more than mine. Exactly. We're all in the, we're all in unison here, right? And so there is no way that Aaron Donald is doing all of this, and he hasn't already run it by. So he's going to play. He's going to be a ram because the conversations that are of importance, the greatest of importance, he's already had that.

That's why we're seeing him at the facility and doing these types of things. Now, when that happens, if I'm the Rams, I really couldn't care less. I just know it's going to happen. And when it does, it makes them immediately better and gives them tremendous depth with the guy that is one of the best to ever do it. So they'll wait as long as he wants to, whether that's week two, whether that's Bill's game, Jeff, you say. It doesn't matter. They know they're getting them. So I was old and beat up.

I'm not in the same situation that Donald was. I come off multiple broken ankles. But my wife, my last year was like, this is it, right? Like, we're like, we're done. Like, we're done with this. This is like the last year. We're done. Like, I was going to Detroit by myself, my kids and family were staying home.

They were still young at the time. My wife was like, please, can we please stop this thing? I will say, though, I do think Donald's rights are owned by the Rams, right? Because he did retire under the Rams. So I think that if someone were to have to trade for him, so that might make it. Harba also like, he's not going anywhere. Even if it's a free agent. I know. I know. I know. Don't even clip it. I was just I was just saying that I

they called on Vita V. DeVeya. You could call on Aaron Donald. Like if Aaron Donald's coming back, teams should want to invest in Aaron Donald. Which team outside of the Bears would he best fit on? Be a pretty good bill. Okay, Buffalo. Yeah, I think pretty good. Every team would call. Every team call. I'm sorry I did this. I'm sorry I did this. It was a little bit of a Friday before predictions week thought. I apologize. Come it up though. Apparently, we are overreacting to Jalen Hertz's interceptions. The last count has it at 13 in 16 practices.

We'll discuss on first things first. Hour number two, first things first today. Ben Johnson is not worried about opening up the entire playbook for a joint practice with the Titans. Should he be keeping some of these trick plays a secret? He's got plenty more. It'll be fine. Meanwhile, Pro Football Hall of Famer Kevin the Wye joins the show.

He and Jeff Schwartz going to talk about pancakeing people. But we start the second hour with Jalen Hertz. It's been a bit of a bumpy preseason for the Eagles quarterback as he learns a new offense in Philadelphia. A number of social media clips have popped up throughout training camp showing Hertz throwing interceptions. Some reports, like I said, had it at about 13 interceptions and 16 practices. Jordan Milata has addressed the situation stating here we go.

Let's see. Everyone's talking about all the picks and stuff. and stuff, but it's not about that. It's is he executing what coach is trying to get him to do? And he is. Before, he would be a little hesitant. But now there's no fear. This year, he's not afraid of making mistakes.

When you're learning something new, that's how you have to be. You've got to have thick skin. All right, Greg, I'll start with you. Do you agree that Jalen Hertz's interceptions in camp are being overblown? Yeah, they are overblown. But we're acknowledging them because the last time we saw Jalen Hurts throw interceptions like this was the year after they lost the Super Bowl. He had gotten paid, deserving of it. They ran the offense through him.

It was a huge passing attack. And it was like, okay, wait a minute, pump the brakes. Maybe this wasn't the right decision. And so since then, we haven't seen this version of Jalyn Hertz because. We haven't seen them forcing, forcefully throwing the ball down the field, him pushing the ball in tight windows, all those things. So with that being said, I actually like seeing this. I like seeing an aggressive Jalen Hertz because he's not getting penalized. These aren't going on his stats, his career numbers right now.

But it is giving them some, some reads on, okay, this isn't working. Your footwork is a little too late or you're seeing it late. all these things he's going to take into the film study room and try to make the adjustments prior to week one. And then you hope that he erases those mistakes because we all know the ball is the most important thing. You can't turn the ball over, especially at the quarterback position. I think everyone that charts practice throws, it's great for social media, that doesn't mean anything.

I love the accounts that do that. I actually thought it was worse a couple years ago when he had zero of all training camp. you're to try things, right? And training it's the point of practice, right? There are certain practices when it is, hey, we are working on deep play action passes. You must throw the ball in this practice, right? You must make it happen.

And so I like to see that he's trying now. Some of the video we saw, it looked to be a timing issue. A lot of it is late. Well, it's a new offense, right? He's working through things. And so I think it's about the why, more than the absolute number of interceptions, right? Why is it happening?

Is this something we're working on? Are we forcing him to throw this throw because it makes them uncomfortable and we're working through in practice. So I would much rather see a quarterback do this. I remember a few years back in Mahomes, 20 years after the training camps, some insane number like that.

Who cares? Working on things, balls are tipped, things happen. So I've never had a problem with this whatsoever. To me, it's more about the why. Why is this happening? Guess what? We'll see week one.

I would have loved to see him playing the preseason. That would have been, I think, a good thing for Philly to see this offense with a brand new play caller, get an opportunity to see the operation, have one or two drives this preseason. It's not going to happen, obviously. They'll do that in Philly. But the overall numbers do not bother me whatsoever.

So I think you guys are both hitting on and in line with what I wanted to talk about here. Because interceptions as a result of aggression can actually be a good sign. Like testing the limits of what your offense is. You don't want to just be conservative. You don't want to just check things down. But I do, I want to just throw this graphic up there for you. We'll digest it. and then I'll ask the question.

Jalen Hertz, to Greg's point, after the Super Bowl a couple of years ago, had the sixth highest interception percentage in football. Now, over the last two years combined, he's had literally the best. But that has also coincided with us kind of questioning Jail and Hertz, A.J. Brown being upset, them leading the NFL in three and outs for long stretches of time, low offensive outputs in the passing game. And I guess my question is, is Jalen Hertz a talented enough thrower of the football to be a higher interception guy as a product of aggression? Because a few years ago, when they were awesome offensively, they were two and two through the first four games, and they were like, hey, we're so good.

The only way we are going to lose is if you turn it over. And he stopped turning it over. They gave it to Sequin Barkley, and they won 16. of 17 games and had one of the great rushing seasons of all time. So, Greg, I don't have a problem either with training camp interceptions and being aggressive and you're playing a great defense in practice and you are learning a new offense. All of those things are fine to me in a vacuum. But in real games, we saw the Eagles try to throttle it back on Hertz because he was making

too many mistakes and it was costing them. I don't know if he is a talented enough three-level thrower of the football to actually execute this offense in the way that they seem to want him to be doing it based on training camp. So in years prior, after the Super Bowl that they lost and then we saw him they leaned into

who he was as a passer. And it didn't he wasn't terrible throwing the football, but he had a lot of interceptions. We saw that. Since they haven't and you can see it has messed with him mentally. Like he hesitates.

He double hitches. He doesn't release it on that initial drop step in that hill hitch. And so for me, when you look at, if you're Sean Mannion, you are constantly encouraging him to let it go, let it fly, let it rip. What that then will do is heighten up the turnovers when you don't care in practice. It's all right. We'll make that to Jeff's point. It's all right.

We'll make that correction. We'll see what we did wrong. We won't do it the next time. Now, it also is reassuring your quarterback that I trust you, that I believe in who you are. I believe in your abilities. This is your offense. This is not Sequine's offense. We know we're going to run the ball, but this is your offense.

And if the Eagles are going to make noise this year and they're going to have a deep playoff run, they are going to need Jalen Hertz to be able to throw the football when expecting him to throw the football. That's third down, right? Third down in those situations when it's a drop back by situation where he has struggled maybe the most in the last couple of years. I think it's not great the three of us are discussing whether or not he can be trusted throwing the ball down the field a little bit more and being more aggressive, right? I mean, we don't ask the same question with a guy we just talked about Justin Herbert earlier, right?

We don't ask those questions about other top-end quarterbacks. The list you had up earlier of interception rate, we don't ask of those four guys, right? Like, can he really do this? It's a big year for Jalen Hertz, right? They're switching the entire offense, trying to maximize his potential in this new offense. His back is going to be two-the-line-scrimmage, you would imagine, at times in the play-action pass. But this offense has produced easy yards over the years because of its play design in the play-action game. There should be opportunities, Greg.

You've been in this offense to make plays down the field if Hurst trust himself to throw it deep. So I think they're trying to pull that out of them right now. Hey, man, take your chances. Make it hack as a regular season, we'll be able to generate some of these just formationally and running the football and scaring teams that way. We'll be able to take some shots over the top when it matters most.

Yeah, and one thing we don't talk about in training camp is when we watch defenses be so much more aggressive, like they're sitting and squatting on routes because they don't care about giving up the touchdown. It's practice. We'll get that. We'll steal the script too, but I mean, we'll talk about that. They want that easy interception.

Now, in that game, you're not going to have DBs. Not all DBs are going to be squatting and sitting and going for that interception. And it takes just that split second to complete a ball to intercept a ball. And he's going to have that time in real time when it matters most because of the threats of what you're talking about, that play action, those guys being able to beat them over the top. You're not going to just squat on all those routes. Like a lot of our DBs tend to do in training camp, which makes every receiver annoyed and frustrated.

The defense steals the script? Yeah, they'll steal the script. Sometimes they'll look at the script, see what players is coming up. Yes. All of that goes on. It happens all the time. Spoken like a couple of offensive guys. My God.

Listen, the Eagles were 19th in scoring and 24th in yards. Something needed to change. And it feels like they're breaking a few eggs on their way to make an omelette here. Let's head to Green Bay, where the past. Backers added another weapon for Jordan Love. They reportedly agreed to a one-year deal with tight-end, John Hsu Smith. Now, Green Bay has hopes of getting back to the form that they saw in their 9-3-1 start last year

before injuries, namely to Micah Parsons, derailed them. Odds makers, not as optimistic, not terrible. Seventh best odds to win the NFC, just ahead of my bears. I was kind enough to note. They've got significant pieces returning from injury this year. Now, I've been looking forward to this topic all day. because Jeff was like, why should I be scared of the Packers? And Greg Jennings, like, everyone should be scared of the Packers.

So Greg, do you view your Packers as a Super Bowl contender? Because Jeff Schwartz does not. Yeah, I know Jeff doesn't, but who cares? The reality of it is, is this team is a Super Bowl contending team. This is why we talk about them. When we think about the North, we look at them and we feel like, well, they have one of the better quarterbacks in that division. What is his ceiling? Can he do it consistently and can he do it when they need him to do it?

We'll see if he can. But I'm not saying they're contenders because they added Jono Smith. Like, let's be clear here. They are contenders with a healthy Michael Parsons and the current roster as it's configured. With Jordan Love at quarterback. Now, we'll see the emergence of Matthew Golden. I think we're going to see him in a lot of different areas outside, inside, formation variation, him with the ball out of the backfield.

I think we're going to see a lot of that. And it's going to unlock who they want to be offensively. But this team is a Super Bowl contending team with a healthy Michael Parsons. That is the key. All right. I went to one of those surveys that gets put out in the summer, right? Of NFL, GMs, executives that rank the players, one through 10. And we, of course, discuss this very often.

Greg, how many players on the Packers were on the, you know, that rank on 1 through 10, right? quarterback, wide receiver, interior offensive linemen, so guard centers, tackles, edge rushers. How many Packers were on the list from NFL decision makers? What's their point, Jeff? Mike will probably be on there. My point is that when I look at teams that I think can win a championship, I want to see a ton of playmakers that I'm worried about facing, right?

And there were four guys on the list, by the way. Parsons was ranked two, Kraft was six. I think Kraft was a little underrated, by the way. Cooper was ninth and McKinney was third as a safety. So I just want to see better players on a team if I'm looking at a contender. We talk about the Rams. How many playmakers they have on their team? We talk about Seattle.

We talk about the Eagles, the Cowboys, right? They have a bunch of these, what I call game records, right? That's what we did young with Carolina. We circled the game records, right? How many game records are on the Packers? That's my point about them all the time. I think they're a good football team. They're going to win their nine or ten games.

They're going to be in a playoff hunt. but when I'm looking at, okay, I'm in a playoff game. How many of these guys do I have to worry about ruining the game for me? I don't think the Packers are very high on that list. Well, I think the guy on the screen right now, he's one of those that wouldn't be on the list because he didn't have a lot of opportunities because it was just a crowded white receiver room.

And he was a young one, and he had to wait his turn. Now you see them dispersed, get rid of some of those guys, allow some of those guys to walk. We're going to see the emergence of the Matthew Golden. And then on the defensive side, secondary. I think we're going to see guys show up there. But it's not always about having the most talented roster. We've seen this before. We've seen teams have had amazing rosters, but it doesn't equate to wins in winning when it's most important and most needed, which is in

the postseason. This to me is about Jordan Love taking the next step. Simply put, he has to take the next step. And I believe he's capable of doing it. I think a lot of us think that he's capable of doing it, it's just a matter of, is he going to do it? Yeah, listen, I think Jordan Love is very talented, a little streaky, but his high-end ceiling is obviously a very productive player. As the Bears fan, I'll be the tiebreaker, and I'll actually side with the Packer. I'll side with you, Greg. Yeah, they're a Super Bowl contender because, well, a few reasons. One last year, before Micah got hurt, they just were. Through week 15, they were 9-3-1,

and if we throw up the teams through week 15, they were the fifth best record in football, and the four in front of them were the two teams that represented the AFC in the AFC championship game, and the two teams that represented the NFC in the NFC championship game, and the Packers were there. After Micah's injury, let's see how they finished the season. They were among the teams that were

the worst in football. So they, now you don't want to have all of your hopes planning on one guy, but they made a huge acquisition for him. I think the Packers have some depth issues on defense. I think I got real questions about their offensive line. But I like their quarterback. I like their weapons. I like their pass rusher. And I like their head coach. Let's throw up Matt LaFleur. And the number of wins he had. Now, again, hasn't done it. in the playoffs yet, but most wins first season as a head coach for guys who have been hired in the Super Bowl era, 76 wins in seven years every year. They're double-digit wins. They're right there. And so if they get Micah back in week five or six and they haven't sunk

their season, that's to me the number one story with the Packers. Is Jordan Love able to carry them in September when Micah isn't there? Because I think that they could win the North and I think they could finished last in the north because Micah's going to miss that first game against the Vikings. He's going to miss that first game against the Bears. Well, if Jordan Love isn't up to the task in those games early in the season, they're going to be 0-2 in the division

and that's going to be a hole that they're not going to be able to dig themselves out of. Yeah, and I think when we look at the signing of John Smith, it kind of lets us know kind of where Tucker Kraft is or isn't, right? Like, if he was 100% healthy and we're

showing his old versions of himself, then there's no need for it. And even if he was, you still need depth at that position in case of injury, right? So for me, it's about those two guys. Tucker Kraft was a huge part of why they were successful in that nine and three, nine, three and one portion of their season. Not all of it, obviously, because he got hurt earlier. But again, if you go back to what I said before, there are Super Bowl contenders as long as. Michael Parsons is available.

Like at some point, and Danny, you hit the nail on the head, again, Jordan Love is going to have to be the guy, even when Michael Parsons comes back, but more so of the weight is going to be shoulded by Jordan Love, and we are going to expect for him to deliver until Michael Parsons make his return. So the Packer are such a contender guys. If they lose one pass rusher, that's the end of their season? Like that's it.

We're done. We're just wrapping it up. So here's the deal. Here's the deal. I think they are still contenders. But when we talk about teams, we talk about them in their completion, in their totality.

We don't talk about them minus a player. It's like, okay, if we go to the Rams, are we saying, man, now as they currently are configured, if they are to lose, Miles Garrett, are we saying oh the Rams are a sure thing all over again

I wouldn't change my opinion very much about the Rams that Miles Garrett went out now look yes you would I'm telling you I wouldn't you could clip this out I wouldn't they don't have Aaron Dowell did of course they don't but they'd have them last year and they made they made it pretty far yeah but they also had a elite pass rusher that they traded for Miles Garrett so if Miles Garrett was to go down

then who do they have Right, no Jared, no Jared verse, no Miles Garrett. They're not the overwhelming favorites to win the Super Bowl. You still like them, but you're like, eh, they lost one guy, and we would look at them drastically different. All right. I don't think we moves Jeff off of his spot. That's the beautiful thing.

They're going to settle this thing on the field. The Bears, the Bears have so many trick plays. They're beating up on the poor Titans. This might be too much. even for me. We'll discuss coming up. First things first. This weekend on Fox, the stars of IndyCar take on America's legendary Oval, the Milwaukee Mile, for two races in two days. Now that's tomorrow, 2.30 Eastern and Sunday at 1 on Fox. Now, Chicago Bears and Tennessee Titans are having joint practices, and they've been,

honestly, pretty contentious. Some bigger hits than you'd expect. And Ben Johnson, well, he is not not holding anything back, running multiple trick plays really opening up that playbook. So that got us wondering, are you guys okay? A couple of former offensive players here with running trick plays at a joint practice. Jeff, I will start with you. Yes, trick plays are awesome. They're fun. Run the trick plays at joint practice.

So a couple of things here. One is that trick plays are mostly run against teams you think they're going to good, they're going to work against. Like, they're not doing this against a defense. They believe that's going to stop them. I think we commonly get that wrong. And, you know, like, hey, we're on trick play. Well, you mostly do it against teams that you know it's going to work against. And two, it's now going to be on film. So week one, the Vikings week one? Panthers, week one. Yes, short favorites. Yeah, Panthers week one. Now they have to worry about these trick plays. They have to spend extra time showing these to their team. They have to

spend extra time preparing for these specific plays. So yes, putting this on film is definitely wait for that. And three, Greg, they're fun. It's a long training camp. It's fun to have these plays in and run them and execute them and see how they look in a game. So I love all this. I am pro-trick play. I'm pro-emarrassing defenses at practice. Give me all of this. So I got to answer this question two ways, Danny, ninja. So if when I was a part of the trick play, don't run it. Don't run it at all. Don't run it at all. I don't want anybody to see it. I don't even want anything to potentially go wrong because it decreases the percentage of time or opportunity for a coach to actually call that trick play if they don't like how it looks. However, I'm on this side and I watch this and I think this is the most brilliant thing you can do, which is run your trick play, especially not against your own defense, where you are scripting, you know the scripted defenses as,

a head coach as a play caller. And so you know when to call it. And you're trying to get the defense to give you a true look. But that, Jeff, you know, that's not going to always happen. In a joint practice, you get a real look from a opposing defense to see if your trick plays work. There is no. And I would argue, nobody's going to be grinding the first thing's first film tape right now to look at these trick plays. Like you got to see when they're going to work.

And the one chance you get where it's not in a preseason game, where national televised camera crews aren't replaying it, not that we're not nationally televised because we are. But it's like this is when you run it. This is when you showcase, okay, let's dial this up. Let's see if it works. Not just because they're a bad defense, but because they're an opposing defense that's going to give you a true and honest look.

I'm not okay with it. I thought it was, I thought it was beneath Ben Johnson. I thought it was punching down a little bit. I thought it was showing up your opponent. I think you should save it for the regular season. Like, it just didn't seem, it just didn't seem necessary. And it seemed like a kind of rubbing their face in it. Yeah, good.

And inviting a little bit of bulletin board material. No, Jeff. Jeff. Good. Why not? No, no. I didn't like it. I loved it.

I adored it. I was smitten by it. I can't get enough. Run it up, Herman, leave no doubt. Run it up, Ben, leave no doubt. And if you're saying I can't do this because Brew is on vacation, Dusty, the text messages, please.

Show the texts. Hey, they're asking, Brew, they're asking, are you okay with Ben Johnson running trick plays and practice? have your permission for a trademark misdirection. He said, ha, ha, sure, go for it. Just make sure you do it right. And I said pressure's on. And I got you, Schwartz.

You got me. I got him. I got him. How could you, he wants to be the best offense of all time. He wants the biggest winning streak of all time. Oh, we're going to put it down. We're going to upset the Titans. Oh, no.

Not the Titans. Oh, we're going to put things down on film so people can watch. You don't think Ben Johnson? He's got more trick plays than I got pieces of paper in front of me right now. I'm doing Wild's job, my job, Schwartz's job. They got plenty of trick plays. It's going to be fine.

All the trick plays, people are going to be terrified to play the Bears. And I'll note this. They ran two trick plays. One for a touchdown, one for a massive gain. They both worked. It's beautiful.

I can't get enough, Greg Jennings. Give me all the truth. Darnell Wright's scoring a touchdown this year. You can write that down right now. Darnell Wright's scoring a touchdown this year. A defensive player is scoring a touchdown this year. Ben Johnson going into his bag this year. A defensive player not by way of a defensive turnover?

No, defensive player on offense. Like a full ball. Defensive player on offense scoring a touchdown. Maybe an extra lineman eligible, little jumbo package, something silly. but Darnell Wright, guaranteed. Darnell Wright's score in a touchdown this year. They're all pro-right tackle. We did see Ben Johnson use Penae Stool like this in Detroit, right?

He was able to get Penae's stool on the edge. Had some great plays in those situations. So I'm pro-office alignment score touchdowns. Of course I am. So give me that. I'll take it any day. Look, he's not short of trick plays. I will give you that, Danny.

So everything Ben Johnson does, it's like, playing chess. There's a reason why he chose to run these two specific trick plays so that if anyone were to see them, it's like, yes, it's on your mind, but I got something far better than that that you would never be able to prepare for. So, I mean, it is what it is. You get a good look. It works. We know you're a trick play guy, then. All right. Let's go out to San Francisco, where it seems that the 49ers might be getting healthier. Slowly but surely, Jeremy Fowler reports that Mike Evans is now planning on playing in their week one game in Australia against the Rams despite a groin injury that he's been dealing with throughout camp. So Greg, I'll go right back to you. Could you see this 49ers team upsetting the Rams in week one?

No. Wow. I don't, yeah, I don't. Look, I don't mean to say it so like harshly. No, I like it. I'm one that feels like if there's the upset that can happen this week one, obviously their division foes. But when you look at how they're both coming into this week one game, we're talking about the Rams saying, do we think that Aaron Darnold is going to join the team, an already healthy team that is loaded? Or do you think CMC is actually going to play?

Is Mike Evans going to actually be available? Is his squad going to be good? where is he at in terms of returning on the defensive side they got they got they got guys and players and Jeff's on his list of players he players big time players change change game type players that are possibly available maybe not available and against the Rams team that has all this noise and chatter and buzz surrounding them and the way that they ended last year, they're going to come with ears pent back,

ready to row, week one, overseas. Greg, you have my permission to, it's game wreckers. Game wreckers in the future. Just use game records. Game records. I mean, look, can the Niners win? Sure, it's the NFL. They're going to win, no.

They're not going to win this game. They're not better than the Rams right now. It's currently constructed. And that doesn't mean you're going to win or lose a game, but I think the Rams are just better. They're healthier, which matters a lot. And I know the Niners are going out earlier, But that long flight with all those injured guys sitting on that flight for 11 hours and sort of not being mobile.

I know players do a much better job now during flights of being prepared. But like that could stiffen guys up, how they practice when they get there. Like I just don't feel good about where the Niners sit right now with their injuries. If they get guys back and you feel good, yeah, they can beat the Rams at some point this year when they play second time. I don't it's happening at week one? So I think that they're very live in this spot. I mean, don't you think that this game adds like a tremendous amount of variance? Greg, you talk about all the time, like week one, anything can happen.

But games in Australia. One team is approaching it by going out way early. The other team is approaching it by flying in the day before the game. So two very different approaches to a unique set of circumstances around that game. And the two people that are deploying those very different strategies as to how to handle that unique circumstance for week one are two of the four best coaches in the NFL who have, really gone back and forth in this rivalry. This will be the 20th matchup between Kyle Shanahan and Sean McVey. McVey won three of the first four.

Shanahan won nine in the next 10. Now, the one he lost was a big one. It was the NFC title game. And then McVeigh's gotten him four of the last five. Shanahan's 11 and 8 overall against McVeigh. These are two of the best coaches in the world that know each other intimately that are going to Australia to play a football game. One's going in 24 hours before.

The other one's going in a full week before. I feel like this is a throw-out-the-record-books type of situation. You flip the coin and you see who wins. I absolutely think the Niners are live in this spot. Yeah, look, I always say week one, anything can happen. It's just going to be tough because I'm trying to figure out where the offense is going to come from. We know who Kyle Shanahan is. But when we look at this offense and what they lack, where's the product

going to come from? Like, are they just going to. Is that all you're going to do is just try to run the ball and then split him out and throw him the ball? And is he going to be your all world offense against this defense? I'm not certain that that's going to be enough. He had over 400 touches last year. Can't wait. Openers coming up.

Pro football Hall of Famer. Kevin Muay joins us next on First Things First. Can't wait. Joining us now is the Pro Football Hall of Famer, one of the great offensive. of Lyman in the history of the sport, Kevin Mawai, with us on first things first. Kevin, thank you so much for taking the time today. You're with us on behalf of the Bassmaster Elite series that's taking place this week and broadcast live on FS1. So before we get to the main event, you're actually competing in the Randy Moss's Pro Football Hall of Fame proam against

other Hall of Famers. I did not know about this. I've been reading about this. This is very exciting to me? Are you walking away the winner of this pro-am? Can you handicap the field for us? Look, I just hope to catch a couple of fish, put them in the boat. I know St. Lawrence River is one of the top small-mouth bass fishing areas in the country. I've been watching the elite series right now.

All the pro bats fishermen are at it right now. Tyler McKinney's like angler of the year from last year. He's now in the lead with the catch of 57 pounds. I don't think I'm going to get that lucky, but man, if I can have one or two of those, I'd be pretty happy about. And I'm excited to beating up with the Hall of Fame brothers, Robert Brazil, and I got a bet going on already. So we're looking forward to it. Now we're talking.

I got to say, I've fished a few times. I've never gambled on fishing. That would really unlock something for me. You mentioned it though a little bit. The main event this weekend, the sport of fishing, they got a phenom, right? This kid, he's 21 years old, Trey McKinney. How impressive is this? I mean, 21-year-old dominating this sport at such a young age? Well, I got to say, I watched more fishing in the last two days and I have in the last 20 years combined, just getting ready for this and knowing who I was going to be fishing with.

I don't think he's matched up with one of the Hall of Famers, but this kid right here, man, he's got a 57-pound bag right now, and he's up by the lead by five pounds. I think his earnings over the last three years over a million and a half, so this kid's lighting it up, and it's exciting to get to be in the boat with these guys. They're true professionals in what they do, and they have a passion for it.

So to be around these guys and see what they do and just kind of get to hear their story. I'm excited about it. But it doesn't look like anybody in the field is going to catch this guy. The guy I'm fishing with, he's about 35 pounds off the leave without weighing in yet today. So I'm just watching it and excited about being a part of this thing on Monday.

And people can watch Saturday and Sunday morning on FS1. You are a longtime pro bowler. The Pro Bowl has now ended. You play different air of the Pro Bowl. You guys play an action. game. How do you feel about this going away now? Yeah, I know I think the last, what, 10 years

or so, it's just been a joke anyways. I mean, you got the fifth alternate that gets to go pro bowl, and now he's declared myself as a pro bowl player. Nobody takes it seriously. It's all, it's all games. It's like Battle of the Superstars

is what it turned into. Unlike the games back when I played where, you know, the third quarter came around, you were down by two scores and realized you You got a hefty hotel build today. You can go out all out. I mean, guys are breaking rules and blitzing and stunning and all that kind of stuff. So, you know, this thing's been going downhill for a long time.

Since it's left to Hawaii, I played my last Pro Bowl. It was my last season. We were down in Miami prior to the Super Bowl. And even then, at that point, guys weren't taking the game as seriously. So not a surprise to me. And, you know, I guess not too many fans are going to be disappointed that they're not going to watch touch football and all-star games. So, Kevin, when you played on the Jets, you had Bill Parcells as the coach, and Eric Mangini

was on the staff. Eric Mangini is royalty to us here in the First Things First Universe. I'm curious, do you have any memories of Coach Mangini? Any good Mangini stories for us? Well, I know Mangini was down the totem pole a little bit, but he was definitely Bill Belichick's go-to guy. Go to a go-for guy at the time. I don't know what you want to call it. But, you know, he certainly had his chance of success being coming out of the Bill Belichick tree. I know he's on a lot of the TV programs now talking about football. My last experience with him was I got cut after him being in the building for three weeks.

And I didn't get to talk to him until like the couple of days before I got caught cut. I was around the building. he wasn't taking any visitors or anything like that. So I was unceremoniously cut on a phone call. On the year that free agency changed three times in like four days, so I think I'm the only guy that's got cut like four days in a row. Wow. But it turned out good. They got Nick Mangold.

And if I'm going to get replaced from somebody, he's a great player to replace me. And things turn out well for me when I landed with the Tennessee Titans. But I don't have any, these are Mangeny stories. He's on the other side of the guy. the ball. We never paid attention to those guys anyways. Makes sense. That's a very good point. Football's changed a lot.

Coaching has changed a lot. How would Bill Parcells have fared in today's football? Oh, I don't know. I mean, I remember in ways you're just talking about this the other day, you're in training camp thinking you're going to get like a night off, you know, being back in the dorms by seven and Parcells will tell you

in week three or two days that there's no light at the end of the tunnel. And if you think there's a light at the end of the tunnel where we're going to get out early, just know that's a train coming right back at you. So I think Bill would probably struggle with today's game and the rules that are incorporated. Now, he'd play by the rules, but it would be a tough environment for him to coach in, particularly how you play the game, the rules within the game, and how you coach the players these days. Kevin, you played a lot of football. How much more could you have

played with six training camp practices, no double days, and two of those in pads? Oh, man. You know, we all think we probably could have got another five years in, but I think in reality, you probably wouldn't have got as many years because you weren't as battled worn and hardcore by time you got into the season. Now, we got injuries during training camp, and that followed us through the whole year. But, man, like one day of pads a week, no double days. Yeah, it's a whole different ballgame, right? You're not going to get hurt getting him coming out of training camp, that's for sure. You know, when we saw you, we were having you on the show, like, researching your career,

like 16 years, 13 of them with a thousand-yard rusher, there's a million things that I'm sure you could point to, Hall of Fames, All-Proses, wins, experiences, stories. But I'm wondering, like, as a center, as an offensive lineman, how much pride you personally took in that, that almost every year of your career you had at least a thousand yard back behind you. Yeah, not too many stats, offensive linemen can hang the hats. on and the ones you do, the ones you don't want to know about, the sacks and the missed assignments and the penalties. But the thousand-yard rushers, that's special.

I didn't really, I didn't know those numbers about my career until the Hall of Fame process. And to have, we're watching Kurt, playing with him, you know, eight, seven out of eight years I was with him. We're a thousand-yard rusher. We had a league Russian title one year. Went on to Tennessee. And, you know, Chris Johnson in 2008, we had the 2006 yards.

You know, it wasn't just me, but I had good guys around me and I had great running backs. And when our running backs, Chris Johnson, Chris Warren and Curtis Martin, we would spend time with the offensive line and the running backs just kind of talking about our schemes and how we did it. And that's what made us special. And, you know, I took a personal pride in us having 100-yard rushing games and our running backs going over the century mark each week. And to know that 13 times in my career, we had a thousand-yard rusher. Now, one year, I was on IR, so I didn't even, you know, so it was really out of the 16 years, you know, 15 of them where I was actually played. And then one year, I didn't even, you know, but game four, I went on IR.

So that, I just kind of checked that one off as don't even worry about that one. But pretty special. A little known fact, though, I found this out, too, that I had 90, 100-yard rushing games behind me. that's the most of any office alignment in the NFL. And that was a pretty obscure fact that I thought was pretty cool, too. So there's two of them, you know? Yeah, but it's pretty neat. Yeah, that one didn't come up in our research, but 90.

Yeah, no. Look, it's not going to be in anybody's research, but I will say that Paul Kajarski with the Tennessee Titans pulled that one out of the hat somewhere during my process. And that one for me was pretty cool because that's something I didn't know about. And not too many times in office alignment to say that they're number one. on the list on something other than most penalties or most sacks allowed. But to say I'm the number one guy on the list for a number of 100-yard rushes behind me,

you know, I can hang my hat on that one and be happy about that. Well, Kevin, thank you so much for joining us on the show. We really appreciate having you on. And good luck this weekend. Catch a big one. More first things first. You know that. You know, I bring that seven-pounder in and put myself on the leaderboard.

So we'll see. Robert Zille is going to go home, broke. Perfect. Good luck, Kevin. Thank you. Thanks a lot, guys. Y'all take care. Great having you. I've seen you. Thank you.