First Things First - Mike Tomlin leaves Steelers, Eagles fire OC Kevin Patullo, Texans beat Steelers, Mahomes Mountain

Episode Date: January 13, 2026

(0:00) Mike Tomlin steps down from Steelers HC position  (28:15) Surprised Aaron Rodgers performed poorly vs. Texans? (40:04) Should that have been Aaron Rodgers’ last game? (48:24) Mahomes Mountain (01:07:53) What does Mike Tomlin stepping down mean for the Steelers? (01:22:54) How will Aaron Rodgers be remembered if he retires? (01:30:25) Danny’s Top Playoff Teams, Mike Tomlin leaves Steelers (01:53:23) Where will Mike Tomlin go? (02:05:41) Eagles fire OC Kevin Patullo (02:12:37) Could Mike Tomlin stay in the AFC North? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hi from New York. It's the show that's got breaking news changes in Pittsburgh. First hour, first things first. I'm excited for today's show, bro. Not going on. And I do not have the doorstep of Destiny trumpets in the A-Block. Can I tell you? Nobody's... This is now the third time, guess, in the five minutes before the show started. Yes. That you have mentioned the doorstep of vessel. I'm just saying no one's thinking about that. People are like, man, Tomlin's stepping down? What does this mean for the doorstep of Destiny Patriots? Reminds reminds me of Belich. stepping down and we rebuilt and now we're on the doorstep of destiny. I think people are connecting those dots.

First hour of first things first. Today. What's next for Mike Tomlin after stepping down? Another coaching job, TV, a year of rust and relaxation. We discussed. Meanwhile, or. You have another one? Oh, oh. I got thoughts.

Was Aaron Rogers last pass a pick six that we saw last night? Do you think CJ gave him some pointers there? Like, listen, let me. Did Caleb do that next time they play? I might start rooting for a Bears, Texan Super Bowl just to see C.J. Like, hey. Should Caleb be like, man, yo, you got to stop taking those hits. Caleb should call him and be like, here's how you catch a snap.

Hey, there it. Now, like, it wasn't taking care of the ball either. I finally, an excellent. I just told you, man. Hold on to that football, young man. Playoff, a division. round edition of Mahomes Mountain alongside Chris Rissart. I'm Kevin Wilde's.

Nick, how did this Tomlin news land with you? First reaction before we get to your true reaction. I was about the same right to the world. I was surprised. But I think I was in part surprised because I expected them to win yesterday. And man, it felt to me through three quarters. It's like this is going to be a say like just how the hell did the Steelers win this game? Say it.

What? I don't know what you're going to say. I don't thought Aaron Roger could throw the ball quickly. Oh, Jesus. Aaron Rogers throw the ball fast. Yes, throw the ball fast. Get some yak. Brew, brew, hold your notes up to the camera.

Brew is upstairs doing pages and pages of notes. I'm writing, I have a thousand of these. Wilde types out Rogers throws fast. Yeah. And he's the star of the show. Scribble. It's in here. That's why.

We're starting with the breaking news out of Pittsburgh. After the worst home playoff loss in Steelers franchise history, Mike Tomlin is stepping down as head coach. 19 years, never had a losing season, 13 trips to the playoffs. One Super Bowl, 43. The sixth in Steelers history also had lost seven straight playoff games with his last win coming in January of 2017. Nick, your real reaction. Yeah, I don't think we can be shocked because there's been a lot of. a lot of smoke surrounding whether or not he was going to step away, whether that means

he's going to get right back into coaching. I know we're going to talk about that. And I know that the immediate reporting is he plans to maybe go to TV, but I wonder if someone could entice him to come coach for them. I know, Brew. He'll be fantastic on TV. Yeah, no, it'd be great on TV. And I'm sure, you know, I'm sure, you don't want to speak for anybody, but our bosses and

everybody that covers the NFL would love to at least talk with Mike Tomlin about things. And I have massive respect for him. But it does feel like it was time. And it feels like there was no path to getting over the hump for Pittsburgh. Yes. And it's not just that he now has lost seven straight playoff games. The losses are all. really, really rough watches.

So prior to last night, the six losses, they were trailing in those games to start, 36 to 9, 21 to nothing, 28 to nothing, 35 to 7, 21 to nothing, and 21 to nothing. So those previous six losses started to combined 162 to 16. Yeah. last night started fine.

Right. Last night, it's 7-6, and it ends 23 to nothing. All of those losses, except for a home loss to Blake Bordels coming off a buy, 45-42, were blowouts. And I have my thoughts, brew, on what the kind of late-stage Tomlin original sin was involves being in what I believe to be denial about the quarterback position and them not being able to fix that.

But I think it can be true that Mike Tomlin is a great coach, that Mike Tomlin may one day be a Hall of Famer, that Mike Tomlin has more than a decade plus of great coaching ahead of him, and this is good news for the Steelers that he is deciding to step down so they can turn the people,

page and refresh without it being disrespectful to Tomlin, who I truly do believe is a great NFL head coach. Well, the only thing I really disagree with you on there is I think he's a definite Hall of Famer. Oh, okay. Obviously, he's got the Super Bowl. He's been to two and never had a losing season. And first of all, I'll say this.

For the past few years, I've mentioned it periodically on the show when we've talked about it. I have felt like, okay, they're not going to fire Tom and that's not what they do. He obviously is just an institution in the franchise. But I felt a discussion and him wanting to walk away. Like I just felt like it's not only maybe time for them to move on, but it's time for him to move on. I just think there are other situations that he can excel in and might be good for him. So I'm sure we'll see him on the sidelines, if not immediately, in the next few years, and I think you'll be good.

Like every team, I was looking through what teams would he be? Every team, every team that has an opening should be looking at. Now, again, I don't know if he'll want a coach right away, but every single team, including Baltimore, should look at Mike Tomlin. So good for him in stepping away or if it was mutual, whatever the case. He is a phenomenal coach. And I know he's caught heat, you know, from the Steelers fans and just other people around the country as far as fans.

But I don't look at his seven losses as a huge indictment of him. I actually look at it as, and he had winning records and in a lot of years made the playoffs without a quarterback. I'm sorry. Like, he never had a losing season despite the last, at least seven years. I think that would be one or two of Big Ben's last years where he didn't have a good competent quarterback.

He never had a losing season with Russell Wilson at this stage, Justin Fields, Mason Rudolph, and Kenny Pickett. He still didn't have a losing season. All right? Those are not starters in the NFL. And he was able to have a winning record, if not make the playoffs with those guys. Andy Reed, and I'm not saying Tomlin's as good as Reed,

he missed the playoffs with Patrick Mahomes. All right. Bill Belichick missed the playoffs with Cam Newton. I get it. It wasn't Cam in his problem. But still, Cam Newton compared to Mason Rudolph. So I'm just saying, like, this guy is a great coach. And I think part of what might be good for the franchise, Nick,

obviously if you get a new coach in there and he can take them to different heights, that's great. But even if they go four and 13 next year and then get a top pick or close, right? That could get them the quarterback. I just think the sin of the Steelers in recent memory since Big Ben was out of his prime or done is they haven't had a quarterback. And you're not going to win consistently in this league as far as the postseason without that guy. Now this is a year where we're seeing some teams with solid, I guess, quarterback. play, not the superstars, but generally speaking, you need a top quarterback.

Listen, if I may speak on the behalf of folks that are Steeler fans that wanted Tomlin gone or that think we're being a little too effusive, even though, again, I think I'm on the record about how I feel. What is so tricky about litigating the playoff games is because they did not lose those games the way they did because of their quarterback play. They were down 35 to 7 and 21 nothing and 28 nothing in the first quarter because of the defenses. Now, the nothing piece of, you know, and so, right,

the offense didn't produce, but it wasn't that it was, the playoff losses did not look like the first three quarters last night, where it's like, man, one arm tied behind our back offensively, but our defense is holding up its end. What they looked like was teams, and this is a credit to Tomlin, that overachied to get there. They really didn't deserve to be in the playoffs. And then once they got there, they got clasped.

They were a missed kick away this time. Right. Part of me I was watching last night, like, kind of wish the Raven was. Well, I was going to be a lot more interested. When I didn't know Tomlin was going to get fired, or I'm sorry, he didn't get fired, but when Toml was going to step down, That's one of the things I was going to say is it was hard. I imagine for Brew and Ravens fans watching last night, like, gosh darn it.

The Texans were early, certainly right for the picking. But I do, listen, they, in 2019, Big Ben was not done, but he was nearing the end. Sure. And he remember, that was the year, I think it was elbow, but he went out and was out. And they started O and three. And in that moment, because, I don't know if it's because the standard is the standard, I don't know if it's because didn't want to have the losing season, I don't know if it was hubris, whatever it is.

They traded their first round pick for Minka Fitzpatrick. And with, through, you know, scotch tape and grit and all of it, found their way to eight and eight and missing the playoffs. And then Big Ben came back for some mediocre seasons. That year, Joe Burrow went first overall. Herbert and Tua were in the top 10, and Jordan Love went in the 20s, after the pick they had traded,

which would have been higher, and Jalen Hertz went in the second round. And the Packers, the Packers and the Eagles were teams that had their quarterback and said, the Packers still had Rogers, obviously. The Eagles were still with Carson Wentz at the time. But they were like, you know what,

we value this position enough, and we need to be always preparing looking forward. The Steelers didn't do that. This year, the Pittsburgh Steelers signed Aaron Rogers knowing that is not a plan after this year. That's right. And their pick came around.

They hadn't traded it away. And Jackson Dart, you know, reviews are still out, but there's a possibility he's a guy. And Tyler Shuck. There's reviews are still out. There's a possibility he's a guy. Those teams took those quarterbacks and the Steelers upgraded their D-line, knowing that they had no plan after this year for quarterback.

So, like, they were consistently in win now mode with a low, low-ceiling quarterback, and that is a recipe to not bottom out and is a recipe for what we saw last night. And I'm not going to kill them for this, but some people will just say this is talent evaluation. Sam Darnel was available. They didn't go through it. For him, they went for Aaron Rogers. And Daniel Jones was available.

And three years ago, when they still didn't have a quarterback, Baker Mayfield was available. You know what I mean? These guys who have had the reclamations, they haven't had a quarterback. They could have signed any of those guys. They went with Fields and Russell Wilson in place of those. It's kind of like they haven't prioritized the position.

And that's not just Tomlin. Obviously, he's got stature. so he have a say. But they have, it's almost like they haven't prioritized. Can I make a defense of that? And it's, it shows what Sean Payton is doing in Denver. It makes it that much more impressive. If just to Thomas defense, man, we're not,

Tyler Shook is not going to be as good as Joe Burrow and Lamar Jackson. He's not. Jackson Dart, I got no chance at Jackson Dart being as good as those two guys. So I'd rather have Aaron Rogers, Try to make my defense great, sneak into the playoffs and see what happens. Versus like, I want to go to war exactly how these guys are going to war. I can't win that way. Can I push back on that?

Sure. So listen, I am not a huge Jackson Dart guy, but I have no idea. Jordan Love, we think, is really good and, you know, a chance to be great. I had no idea about that until he is five years into his career. Yeah. If you're the Steelers, I think there is an argument that your goal is not to in 2026 be better than Joe Burrow. Have your quarterback be better than Joe Burrow and Lamar Jackson? Your goal is that is Joe Burrow and Lamar Jackson hit 30 and then deal with injuries and are on the downside, that that is when the investment you made in, again,

Again, I'm not a huge jacks smart guy, but you know what I mean, that that guy is then ascending, that you have a 25-year-old when those quarterbacks are on the downside. I took Aaron Rogers. I, one more, I, Lamar and Joe Burrow are sitting home. I was in the playoffs. It was an ugly loss. I lost.

It's my, another can say, but Joe Burroughs not losing because half the time he's not getting there. So these losses are on Tomlin's resume. It's almost like, do you want them to miss the playoffs? And be like, ah, look, whoever they hire is the next coach, though, Nick, is not going, I don't see him taking the attitude of, you know, well, we're going to have a few rebuilding years. That may end up being the case. Oh, I.

But he's going to, a coach is competitive. See, I don't. No coach is going to be content to win four games, Richard. Now, that might happen, but that's, their goal is going to be to win 10, 11 games. So I disagree with you. It kind of, yes. You might be talking about the front office, but the head coach, that's, that is the years-long battle between the head coach and the front office. The front office is looking forward and saying maybe if we're bad this year, we can get a topic.

A coach is like, I want to win every single game. I'm not, I'm not consistent with, right. So that's why I find this job so interesting. I obviously agree that once the games, once training camp opens, you're, okay, everything we can. do to go 17 and 0 and win the Super Bowl. The coach is going to do. I totally agree with that. But I want to, the benefit

of having three coaches in a half century. Sure. Is being able to tell during this interview process, listen, you are going to have a longer runway than any other organization

in football. And just so you know, our front office is playing is going to be T.J. Watt is 32 years old. Don't expect to be coaching him. Cam Hayward's 37. He probably gets to finish on his own. Jalen Ramsey.

I don't know what trade value he has. Maybe a fifth round pick. Jonu Smith. Alex Heismith. Honestly, D.K. Metcalf, guy, even though we just traded for him and signed for him. Would you be like, this is a rebuild year? This is going to be your first year.

you're going to have a very exciting opportunity to coach a lot of really young players and imprint your vision on the team and then we are going to, through the draft, find our next quarterback. Now, maybe we hit lightning in a bottle with one of these reclamation projects that come around, but you're going to have a ton of time.

You don't have to worry that we're going to go 4 and 13 and we're going to get squeamish. We're the Pittsburgh Steelers. We don't fire coaches. But we have an incredibly, the worst case scenario of low ceiling old roster and we need to fix

that and so like and if you're a young so it's all like David Shaw is a guy who I've always wondered is he going to get a job the Steeler like I don't I think the Steelers are going to hire another young guy maybe not as young as Tomlin was who was 34 when they hired him but someone that's like

hey we want you here we hope you are here for 15 to 20 years that's what the Steelers coaches are hard interview. I think that's the job everyone would want. I'm just saying if I'm hiring an unproven young coach and you go four and 13, it's hard to find those Dan Campbell-esque moments where like, you know what?

Well, Campbell started. We didn't win many games, but I can tell it's very obvious we're on the right track. There's a lot of guys like this four and 13 looks like a not working four and 13. Young could mean Matt LaFleurring. Oh, well, that's interesting. Kevin Stefansky, young-ish. You know what I mean? Like the Clint Kubiak is unproven.

Mike McDaniel's young. It would be a very different culture from going from Tomlin to Mike McDaniel. I don't know. But you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Are you ruling out Harbaugh? He was the...

I'm ruling out Harbaugh. Were you ruling out Harbaugh? Pretty much. It'd be a lot of the same thing. I also think the Steelers... Very good coach. Very much like that. want to hire a 62-year-old.

I know maybe that's against labor loss. But my point is I think they want to hire someone who, in theory, could be there as long as Tomlin was. I'm sure that's what they want to do. I agree with you in that if it starts badly and stays badly for two years, maybe three, then the guy could be gone. Well, three years, you've got to start. You've got to make the play out.

Yeah, I mean, look, it's a year-to-year league to some degree now. I get the rebuild. I'm with that, but you can't have too many. I don't know. I mean, I guess the question is what's your goal? Is your goal to get the seventh trophy? Yes. Or is your goal to just be in the mix?

No, it's clearly. If it's the seventh trophy, because I don't want to say that wasn't Tomlin's goal. But I feel like when you say Brew, he's definitely a Hall of Famer. Yeah, so you think that's in question? What I think is the reason you're saying definitely is because he never had a losing season. Winning one Super Bowl is not. But combined. Right.

But Mike McCarthy, though, we don't think is a future Hall of Famer. There are John Fox, or it's not John Fox, the coach that doesn't matter. Well, people were saying Harbaugh, people were saying Harbaugh is a future Hall of Famer. Harbaugh, after he won this Super Bowl, missed the playoffs for out of the next five years. So I don't disagree with you there. The point I'm making is I think the never had a losing season thing became wrapped in who Tomlin is. Yes.

And it also, I think, is the first, if the NFL did the thing the NBA did where it's like the 10 greatest coaches ever or whatever, if Tomlin were on a list, the greatest coaches ever, the first sentence is not won the Super Bowl. It's 19 years, never had a lot. out of losing season. But they aren't mutually exclusive.

It's not like his goal to always have a winning season means, oh, you can't win the Super Bowl. Like they work together. It's just like a coach saying our number one job is always to win the division. Well, that works together with the Super Bowl, even though at the end it's not as good a So I don't know that I agree with you that it always works together. Why wouldn't never having a losing season? because the only alternative to having a 500 above record

or above 500 record is a terrible season. And like I said, Tomlin and training camp is like, this is my squad. We're trying to win every single game. And I agree with trying to win every single game. I think the things such as signing 41, 2B 42 year old Aaron Rogers serves let's not have a losing season more than it serves, let's get trophy number seven.

That's the point I'm making, is that I think that they're spinning of the wheels at that position as opposed to taking your medicine and taking swings on, I think last year, you know, going with Justin Fields and going to Russell Wilson. We're seeing if Justin bringing him in to see if he could be the guy. It serves one goal more than the other. is the point that I would make.

Let's just take a look at the whole AFC North. Browns need a new quarterback. The Ravens need a new quarterback. New coach. Browns right need a new quarterback. I think they got their guy. Yeah, everybody. Ravens need a new coach.

Steelers now need a new coach. Yeah, the worst coach in the division is the only one who didn't lose his job. Joe Burr, this sets up very interesting for Joe Burrow. It sets up interesting for Lamar. How do you see this is sort of your, you know, your team and your division, brew. How do you see the AFC North playing out with? this latest development.

Well, look, I'll focus first on the Ravens. Again, I'm looking at Tomlin. I've mentioned Brian Flores. I mentioned Robert Sala. If I'm the Steelers, I'm not as much respect as I have for Sala. And he has done a great job this year as the D.C. in San Francisco. He wouldn't be my guy. We saw him in New York without a quarterback.

And it wasn't pretty. And so I get it. The Steelers are much better franchise than me. the Jets, but I want solid whatever teams out there. I already want a quarterback. So he can focus on my defense, get that right, and then somebody else can handle the offense. So he would be out.

But as far as, I mean, the Browns and, you know, the division is just, it's going to be interesting. But you want Tomlin, you want Baltimore to hire Tomlin? Well, I consider it. I mean, he's a guy that almost, you almost feel like doesn't have to, interview, but I'm not saying I would definitely hire him over Flores or Sala. I think they're younger. I know Flores is.

I think Sala as well. And I want the key is I got to get that offensive coordinator in there. Because any one of those guys, those three, can handle the defense and get that part of our culture solidified. So listen, I think that Baltimore should at least inquire. I have on I have on good authority that Lamar loves Tomlin and that if things

had gone a different way with Baltimore's decision whether or not to keep John Harbaugh that Lamar had a lot of potential interest in finding a way to playing a way to play with Mike Tomlin so Mike Tomlin's now available

that's a lot it does there's a lot right and he wants And now to that, for that, whatever it's worth, I also have very good reason to believe Lamar also is a big fan of Robert Sella. So that, and that might be easier. Also because it's tricky because Pittsburgh, they didn't fire him. So they still retain his rights. They retain his rights in the next couple of years. Yeah.

He's got two years, 50 million. And so they. Right, he might sit out. But if, look, if he has an opportunity to coach Lamar, I would imagine the field is mutual that he loves him. And I would think he'd be nice to not have to worry. about the quarterback position, but it does seem like he's probably going to sit the year and do,

not sit the year, but do TV. Now, the last Steelers head coach, everybody thought he was going to take a year off and just do TV. And I don't know if he guys turned on CBS, he's still hanging, he's still there. He's like, I love this job,

and he was like the number one candidate for five years in a row, and then people finally were like, I don't think he's ever coming back. So I think it's on the board that Tomlin does TV. and it's like, oh, I make pretty good money and I love this and it's easy and does what coward did. Right. I think it's unlikely.

Which means if I am the following head coaches, I am even more nervous about next year. Cincinnati. Sure. Dan Quinn, who I think has done a good job, but that ownership group has a bunch of money. This was a disappointing year that feels like, again, Tomlin's like, oh, my quarterback set for, you know, the next decade. I do like an AFC-N-F-C switch like baseball. Well, and then there is the one.

Atlanta, but they don't have a, they might have a quarterback. The one who I think should be not only the most, you know, feel like the seat got warmer, but also would be a little anxious about, wait, why is Jeffrey Lurie calling me on Thursday is Philly? Again, probably not right now. If I was not. If you're Tomlin, you don't want to... No, they got an itchy trigger finger in Philadelphia.

They do. A little too much. But constant success. Yeah, but I would be nervous. If I go from Stability Central for the Steelers and Howie Roseman wanting to shuffle the deck every few years. I think that's fair. You look at the roster in Tomlin would have to be salivating, but you're right. I mean, he's going to want stability because that's exactly what he's had in Pittsburgh.

And then one more, who again... Again, I think this coach did a good job this year. And I was skeptical and I think he did a good job. But if they have a rough year, I think pretty obviously Jerry Jones would call. And that and Tomlin, and I say this without any judgment on it whatsoever. Tomlin likes the spotlight. Tomlin likes, you know what I mean? I mean, that would be fascinating.

Football, football, football, football. So did Bill Parcells. Yeah, and that didn't work out. Right, but again. And they didn't even have, even in the years he was there, tremendous success. Can I tell you? Like, I just, I can't see Tomlin wanting that soap opera.

I, when you mentioned Mike Tomlin going to the Dallas Cowboys, I really don't like it. I adore it. I love it. We should have led with that. Have we seen the last of Aaron Rogers? A pick six. There's one more, but it's, I don't know if I want.

What is it? Manchester United? You're dropping bombs. Mike Tomlin stepped down at Pittsburgh. He did? Is it official? That's what I keep hearing. So is he a candidate here? Holy, Mike, wouldn't that be awesome? Only if John takes the Pittsburgh job.

I don't know how to react to that. Yeah, I know how. I love it. Oh my. He seems interested. If you're right that Lamar loves Tomlin, I just can't see. that I don't know, Greg, do that.

Do you actually see that happening? I mean, it happens. It's hard to imagine it because of obviously the rivalry and them being two of the longest tenure coaches in our current history. Like it's, it would be odd, but it wouldn't be unparalleled because both of these franchises, when they have a guy, they're going to give them a long, long runway. And Mike Tomlin is very well respected. Obviously he has the respect of the guys over in that.

Ravens Locker Room just because of the success he's been able to have. And Mike Tomlin is just that type of coach that across the league players, players talk. And we all have players that we would love to play with. And then we all talk about coaches, man, I would love to play with Tomlin just to see what it's like. Just because he's charismatic, he's a player's guy, but he has a standard of how he wants things to look. And he seems to get the best out of his guy. So, I mean, yeah, I know Rue would be excited. Flock Nation, baby.

Get it done. Get it done. I think Tomlin is taking the year off. I assume he had two years on his contract that was going to pay him $50 million. He's been winning, so it's not like he was in a bad situation. But this job is not going to, again, I'm getting a little bit ahead of myself. But the Baltimore job, whoever they hire could be there the next 12 years. For sure.

So this, if he, you know, if I'm. him and I love Lamar Jackson and he I imagine he still loves coaching football he just knew it was time to get out of Pittsburgh you might have to be like that job there's not going to be a better job

it would be strange and also since the Steelers have to okay it since he has the time left that makes it tricky the other thing the other thing the shot he said that I was actually during but again this is the sound bite I thought

we were playing but the But Shottie was asked if Tyler Loop made the field goal versus the Steelers if Harbaugh still be the head coach. And he responded, quote, for a week, end quote. Which means, I know. That was after the time when firing. That was the same press. It was later in that same press conference, which again, this isn't the topic of the day.

But there was a lot of what I thought curious reporting of like, yeah, Harbaal was going to be back. And you know what I mean? All of it. And then it was like after a rash discussion. decision. Steve Bichotti's like, to me, what that is saying is he had decided they needed to move on. Super Bowl or reached the Super Bowl. Or right. Or, yeah, it's almost as if a very, very good, powerful maybe MVP caliber player on the team wanted a new head coach. It's almost like that. I

don't know. It's crazy. All right. Well, let's talk about a little bit about last night's game and Aaron Rogers, the worst home playoff loss in Steelers franchise history. Aaron battered on route with 30 to 6L, where the Texans defense scored two touchdowns and the Steelers offense scored two field goals. Here's former Steelers head coach. Oh, we're not talking about Mike Tomlin because he's not the Steelers head coach anymore. Killed the sound. Are you surprised by the Steelers performance last night?

The way it started, I was like, oh, wow, okay. they're on to something and then it kind of unraveled. So was I surprised how it turned out? I was because of how they started. And they started with a quick passing game just trying to implement D.K. Metcalfe by any means necessary, whether it was getting the ball early, push the ball down the field, create opportunities, possible penalties. What happened with the D.K.

And then I saw your text late or I would have responded. Then he had the job. drop. I've seen this. And we've seen this time and time again. And I don't, he iced him out, it's you can't when you're when you when you're when you have a guy who was so heavily involved in your scheme. And it's so offensively. Even though he had to drop. And and has a drop. You can't just not go back to him. You have to keep him involved because that's your only true threat in the passing game. You use him to be a decoy and all the other. But we saw them push the ball down the field after a couple of those completions prior to this one down the left side where he got the PI.

He gets the call. I'm thinking, man, their whole game plan is going to be get the ball to decay however by any means necessary. And it will be impactful whether he comes down with the ball, create a penalty or get you some chunk play, whatever. You live with that. once that drop happened D.K. K. Metcalfe was no longer involved until literally

the late third quarter fourth quarter. You can't do that. Not to a player of the same caliber, but this exact thing happened in Rogers' last playoff game. So let me tell a very quick gambling story. That is apropos to this. Packers, Niners, Divisional Round Game,

Rogers defending MVP, Packers are off the buy. early in the game was the tight-in Mercedes-Luis I didn't pretty sure it was Mercedes-Lewis was in Green Bay okay so it was Mercedes-Lewis Mercedes-Luis is involved early and often and then catches a pass and fumbles

and Rogers wears it with the disgust, he's angry, whatever it is and I'm sitting there watching the game and again everyone gamble responsible if you gamble at all but you can live bet everything you want I was like whatever the max amount that I can bet on, Mercedes-Luess undercatches the rest of the game,

I am doing it because he won't throw him the ball again. And he did not throw him the ball again. I remember vividly, this is the game. He just kept feeding Devante. And the Niners didn't score an offensive touchdown and they lost 13 to 10 on block punch. Rogers, yes, listen, I was surprised.

I thought the series are going to win. But once we're watching the game play out, I'm like, man, this is kind of a perfect, also sad way for an all-time legend to finish because his biggest weaknesses are on full display. The histrionic, whoever's fault it was, it wasn't mine, and I'm letting everyone on the field know whenever it was. A guy let me down.

I'm going to play 10 on 11 rather than include him. These are the things that, in my opinion, Brew, have been the reason that one of the three most physically talented players in the history of the position is around the 10th most accomplished player in the history of the position. And why and so it was, I thought

this was a Roger's biggest weaknesses were in full display yesterday. I'm not talking about the age and lack of mobility, but the emotion of, it's not my fault, it's your fault, and you've made a mistake

and therefore I can't go to you anymore. because they had no way to move the ball without throwing to D.K. Matt Caff, and I felt like he iced him out of the game playing. Look, there's little doubt in my mind without knowing for sure, but I feel strongly that he was obviously upset that he dropped that ball, and then it seems like he did ice him out, didn't go to him again. But he also probably was thinking, and you missed the last two games of the regular season.

You almost cost us this chance to even get here. And so I think all, I think he was. just upset probably with D.K. Metcalfe in general. And that, look, that was a huge drop. It was. Because they're up 3-0. It's late first quarter. It's still early.

But they're up 3-0. Judging, by the way, the rest of the game went they weren't going to have this type of touchdown. Opportunities too often. Right. I mean, and they may have only had a field goal from this because that's what they had all night. That would have, but, yeah.

I mean, look, they would have maybe been up going into the fourth quarter. Who knows? Bottom line, though, is ultimately this is exactly what I thought would happen. It's what I said. I said that Houston Pass Rush is going to have Rogers out of sorts. Yeah. And he's not going, their offense is going to be stuck in the mud. And that's exactly what happened.

Rogers was pressured on 45% of his dropbacks during the season. And obviously he gets rid of the ball quickly all season. But during the season, he was only pressured on 21% of his dropbacks. drawbacks. That was the lowest in the league. So he was not used to that type of pressure. And then at his age, he's trying to get rid of it quickly and all that. So the defense

was all over him. And then it's not just the rush. They got good defensive backs. So, you know, so that's what happened is what I thought would happen. I think that part is what disrupted everything that they were doing, especially once D.K. got kind of uninvolved in the

offensive game plan. Their defensive backs were perfectly okay with playing up close, tight and saying you can have this, you're not getting anything after you get it. It's the best tackling secondary since Legion of them.

And they put that on full display and it just completely disjointed everything that the Steelers want to do now because you have to now try to push the ball down the field which then forces Aaron Rogers to hold the ball slightly longer and now you give this front four.

They don't need extra to come. Because all four of them can pressure you. They do a great job of pushing up the middle of the pocket so you can't step up. And then you got these two bookends on the outside that can get you. They are the perfect defense. They truly are. They can play off. They can play press.

You can try to, you can't run on them because they stop the run. You can't really throw on them because they're great on the back end. They're great up front. What are your answers? you have to have somebody who is willing to stand in that pocket and take hits in an offensive line that can try their best to hold off that rush as long as possible. And there's not many teams in this league. We saw it all year. There's not many teams in this league that can do that.

Like a 6-4, 225-pound 23-year-old mogul with a rocket arm. That quarterback is designed a guy to do it. I mean, he had kind of a hard time a little bit. I'm just saying. Yeah, but he learned. He did learn. Do you want to do a quick Rogers thing here? You want to go after the break, Dust?

Well, on, we have breaking news, so we're actually going to break. And after the break, we're going to talk about Aaron Rogers. Oh, sorry. And a little. Petulow. See, Dust, you got to remember, dust is in control. There's an Eagle story. We're doing it.

We're doing it. How we doing that? Now, how many people know Kevin Petruillian? Aaron Rogers. Last pass did find the end zone, but it was his own, unfortunately. Pick six before being pulled for a moment. Mason Rudolph in his worst statistical playoff game of his career. Then this afternoon, Mike Tomlin is stepping down.

So there's a lot to kind of digest here, Greg. Should last night be Rogers' last game? Yeah, I fully expected to be, especially hearing the news, obviously with Tomlin stepping down. I just don't see him going somewhere else, enjoying the game as much as he talked about. about even though they lost the way they did last night with the season that he had with the Pittsburgh Steelers, largely because the respect that he had for the head coach in Mike Tomlin and the culture that was already built, him going somewhere else, him coming even back to

the Steelers with a new regime, not really knowing that's not what he wants. We know that's not how Aaron Rogers likes to get down. Now, it's interesting because as a competitor, you see his last throw, pick six, you wonder, man, will that be enough to get him to come back? Because that was his last throw. And I just don't believe he's in that place where he's willing to go through another season of, I got to get rid of the ball. I don't have insurance in terms of what I have to protect me. if you could guarantee he wasn't going to get hit and he can sit back and throw the ball,

I think he would come back and play. But no. So I went into last night thinking, oh, Aaron's going to come back. Yes, that's what I thought. Like that Aaron, his press conference a week or two ago when he was like, yeah, I think one or two teams, you know, I'd have options.

And it seemed like that's where his head was. And then I listened to the broadcast. And Joe and Troy, who were longtime colleagues of ours and now are just friends, you know, at another network. But as good as anybody, as good as any team has ever called games, those two guys, they, the way they talked in those final five minutes, I'm like, oh, they know he's retiring. Like Aaron out of respect to Troy Aikman shared with him. That was, again, this is just me watching. And then the way the game was produced at the end, following Rogers into the tunnel. and everything Troy was saying, I'm like, oh, he has told them he's done after this.

And so I just took it as they were breaking the news, essentially, that Aaron Rogers is not going to be on a team week one of next year. With that said, I don't think that means last night's his last game. And I think that for the next at least two seasons, and maybe three seasons, thanks to what River showed. If any team in November or later, that is a good team, loses their quarterback, Aaron Rogers will be a topic on these shows. So that's where I think he's done as a team's week one starting quarterback,

and I think he's going to announce his retirement down. the road. But I don't think, Brew, that means he'll never play again. Yeah, look, that's an interesting point. And with Philip Rivers coming back at 44, it's very possible now. Everything is on the table.

And look, I have to be fair to Rogers. This year was a solid season for him. He played well. He obviously made the playoffs. Won that tough division. You know, they had injuries this year, but still won that division. And this is how his numbers stack up.

I just chose these guys kind of, because they're some of the best. biggest names in the league at quarterback. Mahomes, C.J. Stroud, Justin Herbert. Look at Rogers' numbers compared to all those. He's got the best passer rating. He's second with completion percentage to Herbert.

And he's got the best touchdown to interception ratio of those four who are all obviously good quarterbacks. This is what he did this year. This is a shocking graphic. Yeah. If I was Aaron Rogers, like, hold on. That might make him want to play. What I tried to have on there, but, you know, we didn't get it.

on there because we didn't want the print to be too small. The places he falls short, yards per game. He's the only one below 210 yards a game, yards per attempt, the only one below seven. And that's the thing. He can't consistently, like Philip Rivers, Philip Rivers couldn't do it because his arm strength at this point. But Rogers can't do it consistently throw downfield or throw deeper passes because he don't want to get hit.

He wants to get rid of it so quickly. So that to me, should he should retire. My answer is he should step down. Because again, he's probably good enough to start next year for a team, good enough to put up maybe decent numbers. But does he, he's not good enough to lift the team, as we saw last night. And does he want to play another year or two in mediocrity,

both individually and for your team? Because that's what it would be. It's bad for him to end it with a pick six. But it's not going to end. He went harder after that tackle. It's not going to end the pick six. I'm talking about the game. If he were to Pittsburgh's obviously out.

If Minnesota or Indianapolis came calling, it's not going to end better. It's either going to end with you missing the playoffs or you making the playoffs and getting beat in similar fashion to this. So I get it. It was a bad game individually and team-wise. But it's not going to end any better. for him. Yeah, and the reason why he's

done, and I don't think he, I think he would entertain the idea of coming back pending who it is in the situation. And even with that, you would have to change your offensive approach because of everything you're talking

about. You're talking about a guy that's unwilling. Right now, as presently constructed, 42-year-old Aaron Rogers, just got done with a playoff game. game, he doesn't want to get hit. So sitting down, enjoying life, ayahuasca, whatever you want to do, come back, get a call.

You know what, Aaron, we need you for the playoffs. See that, you have to change your whole psyche, but he understands, I still don't want to get hit. Yeah, but don't you, again, I don't want to put injuries out into the ether. But Matt Stafford, next year that Rams are 10 and 3. and that back grabs him and he's out or takes a bad hit and a mortal chamber's unavailable he's done you don't think jimmy g time baby that right you don't think that a situation like that arises that Aaron Rogers doesn't say man I can I got two months for you like I can again it would have to be very a situation similar to the one

Philip Rivers thought he was coming into. You know what I mean? A team, but maybe a team better than the, sorry, Greg, the cult were. I just think that the Eagles, the year wins went down. That the team would look at if I were the team, I'd say, look at this. Aaron Rogers

at his height, outside of the year you guys won the Super Bowl. Two MVP straight, 13 win seasons back to back. He didn't get it done with that team. Like, is he coming in after sitting out for several months or a year? And not getting it done? I'm with you there, but you're not thinking about his track record and how he didn't get it done.

You're thinking he's better than my backup. He's better than the, you know, it's just burr- Can you still spin it? Yeah. But like if the Chiefs this year had been having a normal Chiefs year and Mahomes goes down. Live from New York, it's the show that discussing major changes in Pittsburgh, and inviting Mike Tomlin on to first things first, officially. If he's going to do TV, we have a TV show.

I'm with it. Yeah. Yeah. Great. Mike? He's a frat brother, man. Oh. Is he?

Absolutely. Well, then, Brew, we should have the inside track. Yeah. Do it again. Do it again, Bruce. Okay. Okay. Great.

Yeah. Get a car for Tomlin, maybe a plane as well. Second hour, first things first. Today, what's next from Mike Tomlin after stepping down? Is he going to be on first things first? Is he going to do other TV or is he going to go coach the Ravens? That would be odd, but not. Wonderful.

Not odd, but impossible. Meanwhile, have we seen the last of Aaron Rogers, a pick six? Was that his last pass in the NFL? Maybe or maybe just Philip Rivers is it. Also, are we going to have that conversation for the next few years? But right now, well, you're in for a real. treat a special divisional round climb up the mountain where there's only eight quarterbacks remaining and I would like to say some discretion on my part

did Drake may have a wonderful game he did not did I go to the mattresses to defend him just because he had the only double-digit win in all of the playoffs I did not okay I'm just taking it easy I'm gonna KW. I'm not trying to be a fan boy. Okay. That's what they say. I don't have an I love Drake May shirt on.

All right. Maybe I do underneath this. Maybe I don't. It's none of your business. It's time for Mose Man. All right, everybody. Wave the pom-pom for no man. Hold on, Brew.

You don't know the half of it real quick here. Oh, wow. So I can get past the fact that you didn't write an intro. There was breaking news. At 2.10. You get here at 10 o'clock. You go to the coffee shop three times. You got plenty of time to write an intro,

much less do an AI thing. But you didn't. So be it. No problem. I walk in and Wilde is like, Mahomes Mountain today doesn't work. It's not going to work. There's only eight quarterbacks.

I'm going to ask three questions instead of moving people. And I say to you. Usually it's the guy's performance. The practice. Where'd Trevor go? Did he fall down the mouth? She's off.

He just went into the mountain. winning eight straight games, has it, throws a game ending pick. And then he's never to be seen him again. Vanishes. He's gone. He gets to avoid the heat. He doesn't get the smoke.

All would have been good. And I said to him, I was like, hey, we've got red meat for you, buddy. For your thing, Caleb is at, well, sorry, I don't want to spoil the mountain. But it has to do with Drake, me and Caleb. Oh. And Wilde's just like, ah, Drake didn't play a great game. I don't really want to argue about that. I don't want to be.

I don't want to do that. And it's, I don't want to be the anti-Kaleb guy. And then, uh, I don't want to be, I want to put it. He was like, he threw some lollipop, whatever. That was bad. That's bad. No one talks about it. You're just trying, you do your whole Drake May thing in the intro wearing your dirty goggles.

They're not dirty. They are dirty. They are filthy. From what? I don't know. Your dirty fingers, man. They look disgusting. They're crusty and all.

Time for the mousey. That third floor, Greg, there's a lot of action down there on the third floor. That's why we're on four. It's piece. It's piece. We're full up on four. We're chilling. Y'all down there arguing, fighting.

My goodness. Bottom of the mountain. There's only eight quarterbacks left. Bo Nix moves up. A lot of people think Bo Nix looks the best. Weeks he doesn't play. He moves on.

A couple vacant spots. And again, it's not left to right. And CJ keeps his spot. CJ. He's barely on there. Buddy. That was rough. Now, he oddly is one of only

two quarterbacks in the league that has won a playoff game each the last three years. It's him and Josh Allen. That's the list. That was his first, truly, he's played five playoff games already. That was his first really awful. He's had one great one, his first one, one awful one, two decent and one below average. So he doesn't have a track record of awful playoff games, but that was an awful playoff game. That was alarming. And that was one of the the reason, you know, I say I'm not a quarterback wins guy is I give C.J. Stroud almost zero credit for that win. Like that was a win despite his performance. Literally. I wonder if he didn't play, if they didn't put the offense on the field,

the score would have been 14 to. I don't know. Steelers might not a score. Steelers might have scored less, whatever it is. But because they won, it's a footnote. And if he plays well next round, nobody will care. Nobody will remember. It won't matter at all. And Bo Nix, 14 and 3 can prove everybody wrong. play a good, you don't have to play great, but play a good game this weekend at home off the buy. Next row, I can't move Drake May off,

up off that game. I think that's totally fair. Now, to be fair, he did make some excellent plays in the second half, but I can't simply say it was just first half jitters because in the second half, in the midst of those excellent plays, when the Patriots were up 13

and the game was a wrap unless they turned it over, he fumbled again. And when all he had to do at that point was just make sure you don't fumble, and that was this close to scoop score, who knows? With that said, I am optimistic about how he will perform defense who he's facing notwithstanding this week because I do feel like he got kind of the jitters out of the system. Brock Purdy, the second pick was grizzly, but man, I thought he was a gamer against a very difficult Eagles defense.

The, I'm not going to ding him too much for the nicest pass the Niner through being his wide receiver because the, I thought the touchdown pass to Christian McCaffrey was great. I thought some of his escapeability was excellent. I was impressed by Purdy. And Darnold moves up, didn't play, gets the weekend off. Good for him. No picks.

No picks? Yeah, that's right. Next row. Stafford dinged just a tiny bag. I like the game-winning touchdown pass. Don't get me wrong. But that was a shaky performance up to an including late in the game when Puka kind of saved everybody.

But again, it's a footnote if they win this week, even if they don't win this week. It's not like it's a big indictment on his career or anything. But no one will remember a somewhat shaky performance and a win if the Rams keep going. Go ahead. Quickly, you know what I was thinking watching him? It was like, man, if he wins the MVP,

and they lose because it would look like they might lose. This is just almost Dirk Novick's in 2008, right? But then Drake played and it was like, okay, neither one of them had great games. They both had okay games, so it wouldn't really should be a game. Can I just think Stafford was hurt? I didn't. No, I didn't. They did some finger graphic.

When he threw and hit his finger, I did not think he was hurt. I mean, I understand what you're saying, which is the pre-imposed hit in his nuts. I mean, because he threw some good passes after that and then, I mean. By the way, you guys know I'm not one to give credit to other people's takes. But Collie Gavar's Barstool Big Cat, take of the month. Take of the month. Wow. He said if he were in an NFL team, he'd make all his offensive linemen wear guardian caps to prevent that Stafford injury.

Oh, excellent. All your offensive linemen were the guardian caps. Josh, I think Josh did the same thing. That's interesting. I think it's a great take. Perfect take. Panthers couldn't do it because then Bryce really couldn't. But the, but force the rain.

Well, that it does. It's being a little higher. But for a galaxy, also sometimes you bounce it off the helmet. Yeah, exactly. Take of the month. Right now, it's a good time. Shout out Big Cat take of the month. Everyone's gone in for that take, though.

Yeah, exactly. Take of the month. You got to call it. All right. Caleb, speaking of Chicagoans, listen, we haven't quite ever. seen a quarterback like this. We've seen quarterbacks be

unbelievable late. Very rarely are quarterbacks just really bad early. And then some of the best play we've ever seen late. That's who he is. Bow Nix. Here's the thing. Bow Nix is not

spectacular late. No, listen. He is kind of. I would say it's not his dynamic. It's not as dynamic. And it's not, but he has been that. Again, not to the same degree. Daniel Jones gone, you want to be the Bow Nix guy?

That corner's open, buddy. You go ahead and take it. And atop the mountain, Josh Allen. Last six playoff game, 16 touchdowns, no picks, 105 rating. I thought he played a close to mistake-free. Yeah. As close to someone can come in a 35-pass attempt, heavy usage game, mistake-free. Josh Allen top of the mountain.

Okay, rather than our normal, conventional, hey, I want to move your sky up. The most popular segment of Sports TV, change it up for us. Well, we usually have 30 guys here. You need to have to work. Maybe we just quickly say what we do quickly. Yeah, go ahead. I would just move, I would move Darnold down to the,

into one of those vacant spots. Yeah. And have a vacant spot next to Purdy. Oh. I mean, Darno is unproven. Drake played fairly well in his first game. Purdy played. That's fair.

You know, come back. And Darno, we're wondering. You know what, KDAW? Or, Brew, that's fair. Take it. Yeah, Greg. So, I mean, look, call me a Caleb Hader. I love what he did.

But to move up and Drake May just sits there because it was shaky. I mean, it was. It was much better than Drake May this week. It was stills. It was shaky. That first half was shaking. Yeah, but then he had 360 yards in the game winning plays. I understand that.

Drake May bounced back in the second half of that game and it looked a lot better. I like this a lot. Playing against a more stout, more stingy defense. I'm just saying, Caleb was excellent, deserving to win that game. Drake May looked better in the second half than Caleb didn't. All I'm saying is they both had turnovers that could have cost their team and it didn't because they both bounced back. He went to Matt for you. I like that a lot.

I wasn't willing to make that. argument, but I liked it. All right. So that next to Stafford maybe just is a P tier. Everybody's just doing it vacant. Everybody's just doing it. I mean, you've created a trend. It seems like we could have had a good regular mountain, but Wilde's what are the dumb questions?

I wanted Fernando Mendoza on there too. I thought you could switch it up. That would have been cool. Okay, question one. Dusty's yelling at me. Is Caleb a top five quarterback if he beats the potential MVP, Matthew Stafford. How high are you willing to bring Caleb up? Well, the question that I would have for the group on that is,

who has got grandfathered at? You understand what I mean? I got my homes, the usual suspects. The same four, yep, to me. And Stafford at five. So Burrow is just in. Burroughs just in. Joe Burrow cannot just stay in all for, he can't.

He can't. I would keep. I like borough. I like fossils. I can't stay in. keep them in there. So do you, I don't think Caleb jumps to top five. I don't either.

Yeah, with a win. But my question, I guess my question is, the reason I ask that way is how many spots are actually available? Mahomes is, I understand everybody thinks Mahomes. If you guys don't say Burrough. Then yeah. Okay. Okay. Okay.

I'll make sure. Josh Allen obviously is still there. And Lamar is still there. Is your removal. And I think Stafford coming off an MVP year, what we think will be an MVP year. So that's, that's. So that's why I'm asking it this way. I do think, I don't think just this game can do it, KW.

I think Caleb or Drake can make a case for Burroughs spot over the course of this postseason. I think that's fair. For Drake, it honestly might just take one more, one great playoff game. Like if Drake is great this weekend, and then they lose in the conference championship game, I might go into next year saying he's there. That he's there. I think Caleb might need more.

Drake was at such a better regular season than Caleb, that Caleb would need more of a runway to do it. What if Drake wins the MVP, and you just have the top five be all the MVP? Well, Joe Burroughs never won MVP. Joe Burroughs out. Oh, I see what you mean. Stafford.

Oh, okay. I just don't think within Stafford's never one MVP. I'll keep Stafford in for a silver medal. Caleb's argument, in my opinion, is I don't think that there, even as good as Drake May has been, he kind of started the season off so great and sustained that, where Caleb, there was a natural progression in growth every single week. And it just continues to carry over. Even listening to him in the post game interview, the maturation like that he just conveyed,

it just seems like he's growing in every area and aspect of. being a professional. Completion percentage. I understand that. I don't think you can have the worst completion percentage. I'm with. He has 60% of his past. And that's a large reason why,

you know, I poke fun at the Bo Nix thing, but it's, it's Bo Nix, but it looks better because it's sexier. He has more highlights. It's more Caleb driven. Like,

but Bo Nix has been doing this same thing. It just doesn't look as great. He hasn't been doing it. It's not quite the same thing. I think, do they both have, seven come from behind wins this. All I'm saying is he's been poor. Bo Nix has been worse in the first three quarters.

I think Bo Nix has been worse than Caleb early and not as good as Caleb late, but it is still a big jump in clutch time. But can I ask question about Caleb's completion percentage? Sure. As I saw, somebody made this point and I was like, that's interesting that I at least want to throw out there. Is there an element of, they made the comp of the thrott

grows Caleb attempts and what that does to your completion percentage, making an analogous to the three-point revolution and about how 40% from three is better than 20 or 50% from two because the points are worth, right? 50% because the point, because those shots are worth more. 33% from three is the is the set. Exactly right. And so that the argument this person was making is Caleb's attempting deeper, more, throws that are essentially worth more and harder throws. And therefore, completing 58% of the throws he's making is as valuable as completing 65% of the throws some other quarterbacks are made.

I mean, which again, I don't have that. I don't even know. I don't want to have it like, is that true conversation? but I'd have to look at his completion percentage within 10 yards. Yeah. And it's also beyond, that's interesting, but beyond that, he's sometimes so bad in the first two to three quarters. He's sensational at the end, but he's been so bad at times,

not every single game, but at times he's so bad early that I can't comfortably put him in the top 10. Can I ask you question? Top five, top five. Yeah, top 10. Do you think he was trying to come up with? analogy on Caleb's game. And it's like Saturday night live writers have to write like up to four in the

morning on a Tuesday. Like why don't you just write at like two o'clock in the afternoon the week before. You know they got a show coming out. It's like you need the pressure. You need the deadline. Do you think there's something about him or his game that he needs the pressure to get to the other level and have you played with guys like that? I don't know if he needs the pressure, but boy, he embraces it.

Watching him, it's one of the reasons why I say it's Josh Allen in terms of remaining quarterbacks. And if you want to go all of football, so be it. I might go that far. Josh Allen is one of the scariest quarterback. Mahomes is hurt. And Caleb Williams, I don't care how bad he is. In the games when you watch him, you cannot tell me, regardless of how far down they are,

you're not at the edge of your seat like, oh, shoot. No, that's what I'm saying. I don't get that with Bo Nix, which is, I get your argument. But Caleb, I don't care how bad he's been. When the fourth quarter come or it's time to come back, I feel like he got. He's almost like Deonté Wilder. You know, that punch is always there. Can I add one other thing before we move on to the next question,

before we're going to get to it up. Where I am for next year, top five's things, Well, I will give Caleb the benefit of the doubt on projection is, what was the single biggest problem Caleb Williams had last year? It was not completion percentage. It was the sex. It was he took awful sex. The offensive line wasn't great.

I understand it. Took awful sex. He fixed it. Flatly fixed it. And so I don't think he's going to come back next year and be 70% completions. Maybe 64. Right. But he, there was his biggest weakness.

from year one to year two, he fixed. And so I will give him credit that from year two to year three, he will self-scout again and say, what's my biggest weakness and try to. I wouldn't be shocked if he did. If he did what? If he did jump from 58, 59 completion percentage to a 68, 69, 7. Because when you watch somebody in the growth and development that he's getting

and gaining from this offense, it just suggests, man, another year understanding what's expected pre-snap. It was a huge issue at the beginning of the year. And now it's completely gone. They don't get any procedural penalties. No, completely gone. You would think he's going to.

So it's working. We're going to take a break and talk about Mike Tomlin. That was your hot new thing? One question? I mean, that's. What are you going to do? Two or three questions. We don't have time.

I'm just saying like, unbelievable. What goes going on in the podcast. Mike Tomlin is stepping down from the Steelers. Welcome back to first things first. 49ers. Brock Purdy, not pictured in CMC, taking on the Seahawks. Saturday, 7.30, only on Fox.

That brew, after this past game, that's a little rude. CMC had two times. I understand. I don't know. If Darnold gets to be in the picture for the Seahawks, they don't have Leonard Williams up there. J.S.N. Yeah, I exist. Yeah, that's a mean.

7.30 on Fox. Welcome back to first things first. Breaking news here. Mike Tomlin is stepping down. 19 years as coach of the Pittsburgh Steelers. Never had a losing season, Greg. One ninety three, one 14. Two ties.

13 trips to the playoffs. One Super Bowl, 43. To a FACC titles. AFC titles. Also had lost seven straight playoff games with his last win in January of 2017. Your reaction to the change in Pittsburgh. Hold on. Sorry. Spot bonus. This one, Tom Lennon out with Hubs, $50.

That's a great bug. Go ahead, Greg. Sorry. Spot bonus. That's really good. Look, I'm not surprised that he's out, that he decided to even step. away. Look, there was an argument that could be made for him to remain in an argument that could be made that reasons why he should be out. He chose to step down. And the reason why I'm not surprised, I'm more surprised that he chose to just step down if this was clearly him choosing to step down. That's interesting. Because, and I don't, I just don't believe that that's the case. I believe that there was a conversation had, and because of his resume there and what he's meant to the Rooney family, you know, they probably had a conversation.

And they just weren't going to fire him. Like, and that's fair. But because there was no inside chatter, there was no player that you could find in that locker room that that was willing to say anything to suggest we're not listening to Mike Tomlin anymore. We don't, his messaging isn't resonating anymore. The opposite. It was absolutely the opposite. So an argument can be made like, man, he's sustaining some semblance of success. Now, what success is to that organization is all about championships.

He knows that. But stepping down, look, he's going to have, if he wants to, if he wants to continue to coach, he's going to have any and every option available to him, any and every, including probably the Ravens. Obviously TV, he's very well spoken, all those things, but it's a little like, wow,

sometimes I believe that we as talking heads and fan bases were so locked into a present moment of well, he wasn't doing this or he wasn't doing that. So we're like, hey,

move on. And the next thing coming in it better be better than what's going out. And I just don't know if that's going to be the case. And I don't know for how long that's going to be the case. Well, that's where I want to go. Because Nick, we talked earlier about you gave Tom Linus props but said this might be good or this is good for the Steelers organization.

If they go three and 14 next year, that could be good for them because maybe they'll get their quarterback, right? But when you look and we talked earlier off the same, about all the coaching vacancies. It's nine this year. It was six last year. So in the last two years, 15 of the 32 teams have new or will have new coaches.

Technically 14 because the Raiders did it twice. But my point is this. That shows you to what you said. It's not automatic that you're just going to get the next guy for the next 15 years. Like they did from Chuck Knoll to Bill Cowher to Mike Tomlin. Like it is, you might get a hire the wrong guy. There are a lot of great coordinators that have been hired as head coaches.

And we found out he's a great coordinator, not a head coach. That could happen in Pittsburgh. So they've had stability. As Greg said, they had a guy that didn't lose the locker room. In fact, the locker room was emboldened for him. And you got rid of him. or he moved on, whatever the case. And now it's, we, we tend to think,

I think when we talked about it earlier, we were talking like they're going to get Flores or whoever, and he's going to be there for the next 20 years. They might go through a carousel of coaches and not find that next time for a long time. Listen, I think, maybe this will sound contradictory to people. I think it is overwhelmingly likely that their next head coach is not as good as Mike Tomlin.

If we're saying Mike Tomlin's a Hall of Famer, the odds are against their next head coach, also being a hall of favor. But can he be good enough, you know what I mean, to beat it for 10 years? Right. So I think they, their next, both things can be true, that their next head coach is not as good as Mike Tomlin, and that Mike Tomlin stepping down was good for the Steelers. Because, again, and I don't want to be redundant,

the question is, is, is the goal of the organization is the number one objective avoiding the floor or reaching the ceiling and I think that across organizations is a real question that you have to ask yourself about this position that someone has held for a long time is my goal for that position my number one objective being not have it be awful or give it a chance to be great. And I think Tomlin is a great head coach, but I don't think the Steelers were going to be a great team as far as a Super Bowl favorite continuing on this path, which the path clearly was, in my opinion, overly prioritizing the defense, trying to patch work.

together in offense and every few years being like, or really every year at this point, new quarterback. Every year. And they signed Aaron Rogers planning. We'll do it again next year. And by the way, we didn't draft one. And so I just don't think they have now opened up that they could hit the basement and opened up that they could become a Super Bowl favor.

And again, not next year, but do the things. if you're the Steelers and you have six Super Bowl rings, I think the goal is to try to go get the seventh. And I think that, and if you're Tomlin, you might also feel, no, man, I'm too good for us to bottom out. It is, we talk about all these quarterback reclamation projects. Ain't none of them winning Super Bowls yet.

You know what I mean? I mean, it is, Baker, you know, has been great. Darnold will see. Maybe he does it this year. Who knows? But those have been good stories, but not like, man, we are, we're in it. So Tomlin might also felt like I don't know how we're going to get there. I took a shot on Rogers, like maybe one more year of magic.

Like that to me, the Rogers signing indicates to me, Tomlin thought this might happen a year ago. Like when Tomlin signed Rogers, he could see there's a chance that this is my last year in his work. that I'm not going to be here. Yeah. That my time here is coming to a close. He signed Russell Wilson. And then signs Aaron Rogers. Like, I want to give myself one more chance.

And then this organization can reset. That to me is, it doesn't have to be a villain. And you know what I mean? A bad thing. So go ahead. I was going to ask you a question. Do you think that this story is actually a quarterback story? And it's like Sean Payton, you know, Bill Belichick was the longest tenured head coach.

Brady Leeds. He hangs on a little with Cam. Draft Mac kind of falls apart. And then he's gone. And then we get Drake. And now Vrabels might be coach of the year, also because he has got Drake. We talked about Sean Payton, long-tenured, Drew Leaves. He hangs on.

Hey, maybe I'll run the Wildcat. He takes off. Is this really just the story of not always being above 500, but like we never fixed the Big Ben problem? Yes. And you've got to think about Steelers and defense go hand in hand. Chuck Noe defensive guy. Bill Cower, defensive guy. Mike Tomlin, defensive guy.

I'm not so certain that they're going to go out and get an offensive guy. I'm more certain and confident. They're going to go out and stay on brand to who they are. Defensive guy. Look at their quarterback history. Name a guy outside of Ben. And again, respect to obviously. Terry Bradshaw

winning all those Super Bowls but they haven't been a quarterback franchise where it's like even though they've had two Hall of Fame it's like we don't look at the Steelers and say man the identity of our team is we got to have that quarterback

no it is defense so the thought that they're not going to go out and promote we still want to lead with defense I just believe that that's who that's how they feel like they have established this franchise.

They've cornered that market and it's this is how we build and sustain the ability to win with our defense. We get a guy just like Ben came in. They brought him along. He turned into something special. We can win Super Bowls. Terry Bradshaw. He wasn't the golden boy.

He was the golden boy because he was on a very good team that was led by the defense. And he was good enough. And run games. That's always been their identity and their ability to do those things has come because of how great their defense is. I think they go out and they get another defensive-minded coach. If they're looking at – and I don't know if that's the right way to go or not. Obviously, you're right about that being their identity.

But if they're looking at Houston and C.J. Stride was a big-time get for them, although the last few years now and then last few years now and then last, last night. But if they're looking at Houston, Denver, and some of these other teams in the playout, even Trevor hasn't been great yet, you know, consistently for Jacksonville, these teams that had or have a shot at getting to the Super Bowl, that will probably bolster that feeling among the team. Yeah, I think that's, I think that's risky.

I also think it's worth noting that they brought in Tomlin. They already had Big Ben. And Big, you know what I mean? And Big Ben had. Big Ben had won a Super Bowl when they brought in time. Like they brought in a young defensive-minded head coach, but their quarterback was there. And I understand your point.

Go ahead. I was going to say he was on. Tomlin was on that roster. Big Ben was already on that roster. Totally understand. They didn't win that Super Bowl because of Big Ben. No, no, no. Okay.

No, no. There's no doubt about that. But when they hired Tomlin, they knew they had their guy. They knew they had their quarterback. They were not led by Big Ben, and Big Ben had his best stretch of his career under Tomlin, but they weren't in the position of we're hiring a defensive-minded head coach,

a young defensive-minded head coach, and we need to find and develop a quarter. Right. And so it's just a slightly different situation. The Patriots didn't hire a young head coach. I mean, Vrable's young, but he's not first time. But they hired Vrabel. They felt confident. The quarterback is already in place.

And so that is, it's just a very tricky way to do. business and I would argue one of potential issues for C.J. Stroud is you hired the defensive-minded head coach who I think is excellent and now he doesn't have the continuity of play caller offensive scheme year to year because that's you know that you can be on a bit of a rotation in that regard. I think it's dangerous to if I was a head coaching candidate and greater there's only a handful of these jobs. But if you were the hot shot candidate. Like, by the way, you like Steelers, we've only had three coaches, it's going to be excellent.

We don't know who our quarterback is. Wouldn't that scare you off if Baltimore is available? That's the only job, though. I guess every, well, that's why the jobs exist because the quarterback is. Yeah, and so, and I was talking to prove about this upstairs. Like, it would scare me off if pending the franchise. But because of the history and the track record of knowing the Rooney family, and them not having the turnover,

you would walk in there almost believing, maybe naive of you to believe that, but you would have a runway that you wouldn't have anywhere else. So that's what I believe, and that's why I think this is such for an ambitious head coach, head coaching candidate. You interview with the Rooney's and they're like, listen, we want to make this very clear.

Omar Kahn's in this interview. you probably will never coach T.J. What? Because he is going to be on the trade block. You look at our roster. Everyone that's over 28 years old, consider them as potentially being dealt. I know we just traded for and signed D.K. Metcalfe,

he could be dealt. Anyone, DK or older is on the block, and we are going to tear it down to the stud, so to speak, and build it back up. I understand that for anybody that is a nerve-wracking situation, I would argue the Steelers would be the number one franchise draft pick to believe they aren't going to get cold feet and fire you after two years. That's what three coaches and a half century has earned you.

The counterpoint, Tomlin got there and won. Yes. So, like, I haven't seen the Steelers have any appetite for losing. In fact, they prioritized not losing. Power wasn't great every year, but yeah. The defense was. Rough night for Aaron Rogers. First time he hasn't led his team to a touchdown in the playoffs.

146 yards on the night was a fewest in his playoff career. Pass rating 51 career worst for the playoffs. Here he is after the game. I'm not going to make any emotional decisions. Disappointed, you know, obviously. It's such a fun year. You know, a lot of adversity, but a lot of, a lot of, It's been a great year, you know, overall in my life in the last year, and this is, you know, a really good part of that coming here and being a part of this team.

So it's disappointing to be sitting here with the season over. Greg, obviously Aaron Rogers was your quarterback for the Super Bowl. Long time. If this is over, how will you personally remember Aaron Rogers? One of the best quarterbacks ever do it. And it's hard, it's easy for us to throw out the numbers and understand where he's. he falls and he's not top five in every single category. Top five and a lot of them.

He's top five and a lot of them. And number one in pass a range. It is for me, because of the personal relationship and experience that I have and watching quarterbacks throw, there is no one that has thrown the ball the way he throws the ball. It's... What do you mean? With the effortlessness, the ability to be pinpoint accurate.

Like, he changed the way I as a receiver played the game. Like, if you watched me coming out of college, I went up and I was attacking the ball. Like, mossing dbs was a thing. That was how I played. You throw it up, I go get it. Even when Brett was under center, that is how I played. Once Aaron Rogers stepped under center, he legitimately single-handedly, eliminated that from my game because of how accurate he was.

I no longer had, I don't think people, you don't, you can't grasp that if you're not a like football, savant or receiver. When a quarterback throws so accurately, he changed, you don't even have to go into, it just, it's in the bread basket every time. That was him at his finest. And we saw it on display in the finale of the, the regular. season. Like so he will forever be remembered as one of the best to ever sling it. An innovator in terms of you bet not sub or we get in the free play. And as receivers, it was

like we're going, we're going to get a touchdown. Always on your toes challenging you to be better. Like it was he's going to go down as one of the best. Even though he doesn't have all the rings that we feel like he could have had, you will still regard him as. man, he kind of reminds me of Aaron Rogers. When you watch young quarterbacks, Patrick Mahomes coming in immediately. Who did we compare him to? Aaron Rogers. And Caleb says he's the guy that he modeled himself after.

A lot of what we see, a lot of out of these young quarterbacks stems from what Aaron Rogers put on full display for 20 plus years. Now, look, I agree with all. He's fantastic. You know, top 10 for sure quarterback of all time. And I don't know if some people think that's low, but he's in their type. Somewhere between six and ten. Correct. Right.

And so he got the one Super Bowl. If he didn't have the one Super Bowl, he might be remembered like Marino. Except for MVPs. Right. He's got more MVP's. The second most MVP's ever to Peyton Manning with seven, right? Seven to four. But I think another claim to fame for him is just his, like you've talked about the accuracy,

not throwing interceptions. I mean, and I know sometimes he throw it out of bounds to avoid it. But that is incredible. Like his interception rate, the minuscule interception rate. Yeah, it was an NFL history. Yeah, is incredible. And so, like I said, top 10 quarterback of all time, today we count Super Bowl so heavily that you do feel like,

man, I wish he had gotten to another, at least gotten to another Super Bowl after 20, But you can't take, I mean, what he did in his career away from him, even if he doesn't have another Super Bowl. So I think he's one of the three most talented players ever at the position. And I think Aaron Rogers at his best was as good as anybody at their best. And I also think at times he was kind of his own worst enemy. And that's one of the reasons he, it is a pressure is a privilege, as people say, and the fact that you could be universally considered one of the 10 greatest ever,

and people still feel like didn't quite reach your full potential, is a compliment. There's a Shaquille O'Neal aspect to it. Shaq's, like Shaq is, inarguably one of the 12 greatest players ever, and some people say an underachieved. And again, I'm not trying to take shots of greatness here. I'm just trying. I feel like there was an element of Rogers, I don't know if prickliness is the right word, but the way he handled leadership and teammates and coaches manifested itself sometimes in some of his weaker performances and biggest.

And I think that that is the only, the only, yeah, but with him is what you said, like made one Super Bowl, won one Super Bowl, and given the fact that everybody agrees, as far as throwing the football, if not the best ever, can't find five guys better. And for people, his generation are older, the only all-time great quarterback that was more mobile than him, Steve Young. Like, we almost forget that, like, His legs were a bigger weapon than any of the other guys who were like in the all-time great discussion that came before him.

And yet there was, it felt to me like, and it really was on display, it felt like the last, what ended up being 10 years of his career, the end of the time with McCarthy, and then into the little mini power struggle with LaFleur and Guten Koonst. And then the rest of the way that followed him, that put a bit of a ceiling on what other. otherwise would have been like Rogers versus Peyton Manning, in my opinion, should have been like the debate for second greatest, my opinion, quarterback ever. And I don't think he quite got to that spot. And I think that's. Brew, did you ever play with a quarterback? I was going to say, football sabat receiver.

I thought he's going to look at him. In high school, in high school. You're like person to person. I didn't get to make his many spectacular catches. Did the Texas defense send a message to the Patriots and Drake May? That's next on First things first. That was a good story, Greg. I like that.

Live from New York, it's First things first overtime. Today, what's next for the Steelers with Mike Tomlin stepping down? Meanwhile, Kevin Petulow didn't get the headlines, but he also was let go today. Did the Eagles do enough to turn things around? And who's going to start calling the plays in Philadelphia? And finally, did the Patriots fly up top? 10 Tuesday. A little top eight Tuesday.

Top eight Tuesday. After taking down a top five quarterback of all time, Justin Herbert alongside Chris Brasardnick, Wright, Danny, Kevin Wilds. Danny. Wilds. Are you ready for a solid hour of Mike Tomlin talk that you've been waiting for? I'm ready.

It was breaking news for you guys when you came on. I'm ready to go right now. Also, I want to tease out. Willie Colon will be here with some great stuff in about 20 minutes. Yeah, he's very emotional. Oh, really? They're very close. He meant a lot to him.

So Willie, Willie's got some good stuff. Willie won his Super Bowl with Tomlin. Greg won his Super Bowl against Tomlin. Yeah, he won his Super Bowl with Rogers. Yeah, pretty good. You probably should have kicked us off and just have them on. I was going to say. I'll ask them some questions.

The more I think about it. I have multiple flag football championships. It grew was a great wide receiver in high school. I just want my fantasy football title. I think we have a football title. I'm glad I'm mad at it. Anything. But right now we're starting with the breaking news of the day.

Mike Tomlin is stepping down 19 years, never had a losing season, 13 trips of the playoffs, one Super Bowl 43, the sixth in the Steelers franchise. Also, most recently, seven straight playoff games with a loss, his last win coming in January of 2017, Danny. You've been sitting with this for a little while. What is your reaction to Tomlin's departure? Sure. So I think ultimately the Steelers and Mike Tomlin could be better off apart, could just be time for a change. And I think the thing that I've struggled with with Tomlin for years now is I see a little bit of a disconnect between how I see him and how the football media and fans at large seems to, which is like, let's get the obvious things out of the way. It's wildly impressive to have 19 years without a losing season. That is obviously impressive. 200 wins, a Super Bowl championship, incredible. If we were doing that in ratings of coaching attributes,

like leadership and culture, he might be the best. Andy Reed, Dan Campbell, he might actually, he might be 100 out of 100 the best you could possibly be as a football coach. Where I've struggled with it is how valuable is high, floor, low ceiling. Like, how valuable is it if your skills as a coach do also not align with developing quarterbacks or coaches? He has no coaches on his coaching tree, not a one. No Mike Tomlin assistant has gone on to be an NFL head coach. He keeps turning over offensive coordinator, Arthur Smith, Matt Canada, Randy Fickner, Todd Haley.

He inherited Ben Rothelpsberger, so he doesn't really, he won with him. but he wasn't his guy. But he's so good at the leadership culture stuff that you're always going to win 8, 9, 10, 11 games. But then that puts you in a position where you're too good to draft a quarterback at the top. But then you're a defensive coach and your defense falls apart in these playoff games

where you are the first coach in NFL history to have five straight playoff losses by double digits. Like, what's the value? you in winning 10 games, getting boat raced in the playoffs, and never developing an offensive coach or quarterback. I struggle with it. He'll be discussed for the Hall of Fame, but I get why Steelers fans have grown tired of high floor, low ceiling, but I also get why 15 teams would want to hire him because they churn over coaches every three years. I would argue, though, that the low ceiling is quarterback-related, but he's the head

coach. Like he's not the GM. And I know he has a lot of say, obviously, with his stature and organization. But when he had a top flight quarterback, he got to two Super Bowls and one one. And I know after that,

you know, they didn't always make the Super Bowl, obviously, with Ben Rothensberger. But I'm saying, we can't say he has a low ceiling because he's, when he had a guy, I don't, there is nobody when, when your quarterback is not elite, who is consistent.

like competing for the Super Bowl. I think Kyle Shanahan is the only one. I mean, again, I think he's the only one. And I think that's his. I mean, when he would now, they have injuries, right. When they have injuries, they go to six wins. You know what I'm saying? So he's up and down.

But Shannon is the only one. It's not like there's a lot of guys. Shannon's the only one that we've seen do that. And I would, so I think he has the seal. His ceiling is the Super Bowl. He can win the Super Bowl as he's proven that. And then the floor is, is low. Like I was saying earlier, Danny, he had a winning record with these are four guys

that are now objectively backups. Russell Wilson at the stage he had him last year, Justin Fields, Mason Rudolph, and Kenny Pickett. And he had a winning record with them. Like that, so him making the playoffs, I agree, the defensive performances have not been good. But I don't think those were playoff teams. I think his great coaching got teams, teams that weren't playoff caliber to be in the playoffs

with quarterbacks who weren't very good at all and then they got boat race once they got there. But so what, but again, what's the value? The value is get me a quarterback and we can win a Super Bowl and get to a Super Bowl. Right, but the question, I think, so

I agree with you in this regard. that if Mike Tomlin's next job is a team whose quarterback is in place, I think they are an instant contender. But I, the Danny's opinion on this, unlike Justin Herbert, you have the correct opinion on this because you agree with me. Oh my God, I got blessed by the great big rights. But no, I mean, I agree with what you said almost 100%. I think that what he is, his excellence at raising the floor has become an impediment to the ceiling. Because you have so many fewer opportunities to get the quarterback.

And as I discussed earlier, I think they had a couple missed opportunities. I think in 2019, when you still have Big Ben, but he gets hurt and early in the year is going to be out this season. and it's clearly mirroring the end, they could have been like, all right, let's just see what it looks like without, you know, as is. Instead, they traded their first round pick for Minka Fitzpatrick to try to scotch tape it together in a draft that, yeah, if you're not going to have the top picks of the draft

where Burrow, Herbert, and Tua went. Jordan Love went in the 20s after where they're picking it up being, and Jalen Hurts, second round pick by teams that had franchise, top-bate franchise quarterbacks. Now, Carson Wentz was on his way out, but they didn't know that at the time. And obviously Rogers was there. And then even this year,

they valued adding a piece that could help them immediately in Derek Harmon more than either Jackson, Dard, or Tyler Shuck. And again, I'm not saying either one of those guys is going to be the quarterback that ends this, but it would give you a chance at that

when your quarterback's 41 going to be 42-yard Aaron Rogers and you know you don't have a chance at it. So I don't, I also think this is a potentially good day for the Steelers because it opens up the aperture so much

but that aperture opens up Wilds in both directions There's a ton of downside, obviously Yeah and there is and you can I think the point you made it off the air

but I think you should make it on the air your Dolphins point sorry Dolphins fans oh yeah I mean partially it's because of what I went through with the Patriots

that for a while I'm like we're going to be good we're the Patriots. And then the quarterback leaves. Like, guess what? We made the playoffs. We still have Bill Belichick.

And then Bill Belichick leaves, and we have the jerseys and the stadium. And we are not good. And then you're looking out in the wilderness is like, hold on a second. We might not be good for decades. That's one of the reasons. Welcome to how the rest of us live. Exactly. So I know the idea of like, hey, look, we get a quarter.

Like we get a new coach, a franchise quarterback. It's hard to hit on one. Right. The idea that you're going to hit on two. And by the way, Joe Burrow and Lamar Jackson are still in your division. I think it's scary. Well, how about if, and again, the Steelers will have to agree to this because they have his rights for the next two years. What if Tomlin goes to Baltimore and has Lamar Jackson?

And now as the Steelers, you have to beat him year after year. I mean, that's a potential downside. Now, again, it's hard to see Pittsburgh agreeing to that. Who knows what... I'd say impossible to see them agreeing to that. But who knows what the conversation was when he left, or was it a mutual firing or agreement? You don't know, but I agree it's...

It would be odd to see Pittsburgh. I think the Steelers have, as we, you know, it's not a lot of... It's three coaches in 50 years, right? So we don't know really what their trend is, all three coaches were defensive-minded head coaches and young. But again, like, is that who they are or it's just who they ended up being when you only make three decisions in a half century? I don't know.

I would think that in 2026, if you're hiring a head coach and you don't have your quarterback in place. And unlike when the Texans hired Domeco, you don't have a top three. three pick where you know you're drafting your quarterback, I would think you're going to lean to go offense, that you're going to say we want whatever young quarterback ends up being the Pittsburgh Steelers quarterback to give him a chance to pair with an offensive-minded head coach as he, you know, a la Caleb and Ben Johnson or grow together. The Patriots didn't have to do that because they knew they had their quarterback in Drake May. I also think next year's Steelers team could be awful.

Well, that's, I don't think they could be. I think, yeah, well, first place schedule, old expensive roster, maybe a first time head coach, like, awful by design. You say old expensive roster. Like, I don't know if it'll be an old expensive roster. Or you tear down

an old expensive roster to make it a bad roster to transition. Right. Right now it is an old expensive roster. Yeah, I think that if you're, the Steelers almost, if I were O-Marc, I would try to get the Steelers fans to have the mindset that the Pacers fans have this year. Like, hey, one year.

Now, the Pacers, it's because Halliburton got hurt. But like one year and we'll be back, you know what I mean? Give us one year that's not going to be fun. Where we're trading T.J. Watt, where we're, you know, seeing if anybody wants J. Ramsey, where we're moving, we're clearing our books, adding draft capital. I know it sounds. I think their fans, I think a lot of their fans are ready for that. I mean, not long, not for three years, but I think a lot of them feel the same way as far as we know we can win 10 games.

We know we can make the playoffs. But for us to get to the next level, we got to go to the bottom for a year or two. The one difference, though, is Indiana knows they got Halliburton. Yes. And so Pittsburgh doesn't have that guy. Is the analogy Peyton in Denver? where, hey, I'm... Peyton Manning or Sean Payton?

Where I'm going to come in here. I don't like what I'm seeing. We're going to bottom out, but then I'm going to make the playoffs. I just think it's very difficult to chase two rabbits. Develop a winning culture and lose on purpose. I just, Dan Campbell was able to somehow do it, but he also had a quarterback that went to the Super Bowl. But I don't think they lost...

I don't think Campbell or Peyton lost on purpose. Not loose. No, but if you're going to, if you're going to gut the roster, and I'm not saying the Broncos lost on purpose, but they're like, we're going to, I think Russell Wilson would have won more games than. Well, when he benched it. I mean, they weren't very good when he missed. Just winning was not a priority.

No, they were, they were turning the page. Yes. But how are you doing that? Young coach, like, I won three games. Listen, I don't. Tough. If the whole thing is job security, then it's a great job. Because historically they keep coaches.

Maybe. But right. Right. Those guys won right away. They won right away. You have an old expensive roster, the 21st pick in the draft. You have to follow Mike Tomlin. You're going to be bad next year.

It's not a great spot for next year. What the Broncos had was they, the other thing that hurts the Steelers is there is not, the Sean Payton of 2026 coaching cycle is Mike Tomlin and John Harbour. One, they just, you know, parted ways, but there isn't the guy, there isn't Jim Harbaugh, there isn't the coach sitting out there that you're like, he comes in and he instantly, you know what I mean, gets everything rolling. That, the way the Broncos felt about Sean Baten. Yeah. Like those two guys, one, it would be stunning if John Harbaugh goes to the Steelers.

And the other one's Tomlin, who just left the Steelers. It's going to be either a dice roll on a guy like Stefanski or Mike McDaniel. And by that I just mean second. Daniel would really be a departure from a thing. Or a first time head coach. I guess Brian Flores wouldn't be a first time head coach. But it would be a retread sounds mean. But a guy who's been a head coach before but not had the success of Harbaugh,

Peyton, or either of these guys. Or you're rolling a dice on Clint Kubiak. Robert Salo would be an example of a retread that you think. Again, if I'm like, as much as I like Sala, they don't have a quarterback, and there's no guarantee you're going to get one, even if you have a top pick. And we saw him without the quarterback in New York. I like Sala. I like floors. I like floors there.

It's just hard without a quarterback. Right. It's hard. You know, we won four games, but they, but we had 13 good losses. I think it's just so hard. Okay, it's Tuesday, of course, which means it's time for top 10. Tuesday, but since there's not 10 teams, top eight Tuesday. Couldn't figure out a way to get the Chargers into the top eight because they lost.

So we began at number eight. The Niners, too many injuries. Again, this is how you are right now. George Kittle gets injured in the midst of that game. I just think this is an impossible spot for them going against Seattle, who they just played a competitive game with, a tough physical one. But Seattle is rested and one of the healthy. teams in the playoffs and San Francisco is the least healthy team. If we do it based on measuring week one starters,

Niners most among the playoff teams, Seahawks, the second fewest, basically. Seattle is healthy and rested. The Niners are injured and not rested. I think it's a bad spot for the Niners. Coming in at number seven, the Houston Texans. Hmm. I just, their defense is incredible, but we saw from C.J. Stroud last night, I just cannot trust him going forward.

He just kept fumbling the ball. It's not something you want to. do. But Houston's formula is a very simple one. Score 20 points. If CJ Stroud can get them into the 20s, they are undefeated this season. Most wins without a loss since the 2015 Panthers. Can C.J. Stroud be trusted to get them above 20 points going forward. Coming on at number six.

W is getting nervous about that game. How could you know that Texas defense? The Denver Broncos, a shaky one seed from where I sit. I know Nick agrees, six and two this year when they score. fewer than 20 points. That doesn't seem sustainable for a playoff run, but I've been wrong about the Broncos pretty much all year. Not as wrong, Nick.

Coming into number five, the Chicago Bears, a lot of strengths. Their offense plays its best against playoff teams. Caleb Williams is clutch. It is expected to be about zero degrees at Soldier Field on Sunday night with a warm weather West Coast Rams team coming to town. The Rams defense has been very vulnerable. But honestly, I've been known as a little bit of a mush.

in my day. A little bit of a curse. I'm worried that the bears, I'm not going to be there. Are they going to be able to win without me there? That's the question. The greater, the robe, I don't know. I'm worried Chicago. I'm going to be watching from home.

Why don't you go? It's Owens' birthday. I got a... Oh, yeah, it's your son's birthday. I got family obligation. What a birthday present. Yeah. To bring the six-year-olds to zero degree.

Yeah. Little robe. A little cheese grater hat. Dressing mug. We're going to Chicago. Get us a robe. Number four, the Los Angeles Rams. I am very worried about the Rams defense if I would be a Rams fan,

allowing 28 points per game since Week 11. Easily could have lost to Carolina in that playoff game. But the saving grace for them is Matt Stafford might throw for 600 yards against the Bears. Could be 700. He is just dialed in. Puka and Devante will have their way completely with the Bears defense at this point. If the Bears are going to win that game, it is going to need to be either because of the weather or a shootout.

Number three, the New England Patriots. I'll take it. Hey, if you can win by double digits when Drake May has less than an ideal game, it's impressive. The Chargers defense I thought was very good in that game. Obviously, as we discussed yesterday, Justin Herbert, not good enough. Greg Roman, really not good enough. Got fired today. The story of that game, though, is going to be Texans defense and their pressure against Drake May.

What you guys got going for you? Drake May this year. Those numbers under pressure are crazy. Just best across the board for a. a second year quarterback without the best offensive line or the best weapons. It's very, very impressive. To me, that is the most indicative thing that this is totally real and sustainable for Drake Mayle. If he can handle the adversity like that, second year and he's going to be amazing.

That'll be the story of that game. Also, if both quarterbacks keep up what they're doing, we'll set the record for fumbles in a game. That's an underrated storyline. Maybe we can look at that for stats are cool tomorrow. Coming in a number two, my Super Bowl pick from before the year, the Buffalo Bills. I like the symmetry of the AFC matchups. Drake May and Josh Allen, two best quarterbacks left. Denver Broncos, Houston Texans, two best pass rushes left.

How does Josh Allen handle pressure? Well, last week against Jacksonville, like when he's playing Superman, he was spectacular. His both is rushing touchdowns were pressure invading the pocket, pass rating of 114, 75% completion percentage. His numbers under pressure this year have kind of been inconsistent, I would say. But when he's at his best, which I think he is right now, he will be the type of guy who can handle the Broncos pass rush. And then at number one, they've been there for about six weeks on top 10 Tuesday,

the Seattle Seahawks. They are the number two scoring offense right behind the Rams, and the number two scoring defense right behind the Texans. So imagine the Rams offense with the Texans defense. That is the Seattle Seahawks. Brew, perfect list. Well, okay. Okay.

I'm moving the Texans up two spots, ahead of the Broncos and ahead of the Bears. With the Broncos, they, look, C.J. looked bad last night. I get that I don't expect him to drop the snaps, you know, or the, he just hasn't been good for a while. Yeah, I mean, he's, but he still can be as good as Bo Nix, if not better. And so, and I think, so I think their quarterback in my mind is better than Bo Nix. I think their defense is better, although Denver's is great as well.

And that team, they beat Buffalo. Like, if CJ is just solid, they can reach the Super Bowl and win the Super Bowl if he becomes good again. Like, they beat Buffalo and Jacksonville with Davis Mills at quarterback. So I think their defense is spectacular. I think it's the best in the league. And then CJ, I don't expect them to be as bad as he was last night going forward. So I'm going to move them two spots ahead of Denver and Chicago. Yeah, I think the Rams are too low and the Bears are too high.

If the analysis is on the Niners is there too banged up, the Bears lost maybe their best back seven defensive player, certainly their best linebacker and their left tackle in that game. Like that was the underrated story of the comeback is the Bears are going to be going into this next game without their left tackle. And the Rams, listen, the Rams, I understand, escaped against Seattle. I'm sorry, against Carolina. I still think they have been neck and neck with Seattle over the course of the year

as the best team in the league. And so I- Super Bowl odds agree with you. Right. So I think that the Rams should be up to two. And I think Chicago should probably because of the injuries and the defensive concerns be dropped to seven. So I would just move one team up and one team down. Although I liked where you had the Patriots. I think is right. Okay. A bad defense. You

know, I coined the phrase defense wins championships. Trademark? That is trademark. Yes. That is that by your defense concerns me. Caleb in the fourth quarter does not concern me. Go win another shootout. Willie Colon. Sorry. The former Steeler talks about Tomlin leaving Pittsburgh. That's next. see big news in the world of sports out of Pittsburgh today. Mike Tomlin is stepping down as the head coach of the Pittsburgh Steelers. Art Rooney has put out a statement. It's hard for me to put into words the level of respect and appreciation I have for

Coach Tomlin. He guided the franchise to our sixth Super Bowl championship and made the playoffs 13 times. His track record of never having a losing season in 19 years will likely never be duplicated. Of course, Greg Jennings. And former Steeler, Willie Colon. are with us. Willie, you played for Mike Tomlin, you won a Super Bowl with Mike Tomlin. You were in Pittsburgh there with him for six years. I know he means a lot to you. What's your reaction to this news?

I think Art Rooney put it in best into it. It's hard to explain, especially for a guy who played for him. And, you know, he does mean a lot to me, not only professionally, but a lot of different of course, I mean, he impacted my life like I can't even talk about. I always feel in debt to Mike Tomlin and the Pittsburgh Steelers. You know, what he was able to do during his tenure as the head coach of the Pittsburgh Steelers, you know, he was able to see a man for a man. He was able to recognize his journey, see his trauma and get him to believe in the philosophy in which the Pittsburgh Steelers represent.

And I think, you know, it's interesting, man, because when you talk about, you know, we all fathers here and what's a good, what's a sign of a happy house when the kids are yelling and running around and they're talking about? want to come home. When you go into the locker room of the Pittsburgh locker room, you're seeing alumni. You're seeing guys who played from past and present who are happy to be a Pittsburgh Steelers, who are happy that they had the opportunity to be coached by Mike Tomlin. And, you know, my experience, you got to understand, I was drafted in 06. The Steelers had just won in 05. They had beat the Seattle Seahawks, right? Bill Cowher leaves. Here comes a young,

fresh face of Mike Tomlin with a little afro and a nappy beard. And, you know, you know, he's forced to sell himself to a locker room who was also in their 30s, which is hard, right? Because a lot of those guys, it could have been his teammates. Heinz Ward was 33 at the time. Mike Tommy gets a job at 36. Charlie Batch is a veteran quarterback at that time. So a lot of these guys who were his peers had to now look to a young fresh head coach, fresh face head coach and Mike Tomlin and believe he was capable of doing the job.

And I was a young guy coming out of the Bronx, coming out of Hofstra, who was a young guy who, was just happy to have a couple water from the Pittsburgh Steelies, and I was birthed into a historic organization who showed me how to play football at the highest level. And it was hand-believing at me during my IR journeys. I went through back-to-back IRAs, was hurt multiple times, and he never let the rope go. He never left me behind. And he continued to preach life into me and show me how to be a great man, not only on the field, but off the field. And so I'm grateful to call him coach. One of the best things that happened to me in my life, and especially this year, one of the high points. I got a picture of you right here. I'm going to show you of

Mike Tomlin and my son. That picture right there means the world to me, man. From that man to bend the knee and take a picture right along my legacy right there. I built my identity around being a football player, around being a piss-first dealer. And when I walked my son up to Mike Tomlin, he hugged him and kissed him. And I'm only getting emotional because that's the type of man Mike Tomlin is. He built a home for a lot of men. And I just can't talk enough about him and what he means to me. Just to push you a little bit more, I guess. We know you've said what he's done for.

He's a football player and the culture. Talk about, like, you kind of grew up with him professionally. Like Willie Cologne the man before Mike Tomlin and after Mike Tomlin. I grew up with him because, you know, I watched him, as I mentioned, walking to the locker room and really kind of pretty much grabbed the baton from Bill Cower. Yeah. But what I also saw was a man who really took. a lot of arrows, man.

And because you talk, the critics are always going to talk about what he wasn't able to do during his tenure. But I want to highlight what he was able to do, and that's when. And he won with Ben Ruffisberger and a couple of no-name quarterbacks that happen to be quarterbacking for the Pittsburgh Steelers. I also watch them will this team to victory time after time. And I think for a lot of people who've been in that building with Mike Tomlin, they know he goes to sleep with the job.

He'll tell you not to go to sleep with the job, but he will go to sleep with the job. He's always looking to get better. He always looking to get the best out of his guys. And sometimes it did. It didn't, excuse me. So overall, man, I think his leadership, the impact he had on the culture of football, it just speaks values. Look, man, to follow that, as an outsider, being in the National Football League, as players, you always have either a player in my position, a quarterback, a coach that you feel like, man, I would love to play with you. with that guy, where I would love to play for that guy.

Mike Tomlin almost universally was a name that all of us really just wanted to know what it was like to play for that guy because of how he presented himself, how players within that organization spoke of him listening to you right now is giving me chills because it's like we all want to feel that in a work environment. We all want to be led the right way. And a lot of times when coaches don't have the success, which, again, totally understand why you would part ways, why there was screaming and hovering of, we want something new, can respect it. But when you look at this organization and what he brought and maintain in that quote that I was not a part of, but it's something that I refer to often. The standard is the standard because of how that organization was run.

Prior to him even taking over the baton, the lack of losing seasons that they went through with Chuck Knoll, with Bill Cower, and then for him to take that baton and never allow this fan base in this organization to experience what it even felt like to go open the basement door to hit the steps. Forget going in the basement. They never did that. But to open even the door, like that speaks volumes. And like Mr. Rooney said, I doubt if that will ever be duplicated. Fresh starts probably are what's best for both parties. He obviously has a bright future in front of him, regardless of what he wants to do.

But it is, it's tough as an outsider to see somebody who you know and believe that this means so much to. He's given everything he is as a man to a city, to an organization, to step away and then not end on the terms of which you would like. It's tough, but that's the nature of the business. So I worked at radio my whole career, and then you get to TV, and you're like, I hope I don't have to go back. This is pretty sweet. And so everyone was talking about Mike Tomlin's going to go to TV, but maybe just for a year, maybe two, and then he'll go back to coaching. Mike Tomlin will be excellent at television. Yeah.

You know, Bill Cowher was supposed to go to TV for a year or two. Yeah. And he still is on television because you realize you can make a lot of money, work one day a week, travel less, see your family, golf more, do whatever you want. It's like less stress, live longer, all those sort of things. Jimmy Johnson had a lot of offers, kept staying in television. Sean McVeigh almost left the Rams two years back. He's young to go to.

television like these guys who are very clearly great would be great at television can make a lot of money like where do you want to see mike tomlin like i'm not asking you to like name a team necessarily but like what do you hope or think is next for mike tomlin i see him taking a year off stepping back and kind of reassess where he's at um as as as gregg mentioned he dedicated his life to the pittsburg stales in the city of pittsburg i see him taking a break and really kind of just saying hey you know is this a situation why i want to be on tv some guys because you're great or you have a way of speaking or delivering things. Nefessional you want to just deal with the minutia of TV.

Because one thing that was great about Mike Tomlin, he doesn't dwell in the gray. He's very straightforward. He'll tell you what's on his mind. And I think right now I can see him stepping back and continue to mentor men in some departments. And I can see him maybe being a consultant for a lot of young head coaches, black and brown, who want to be the guy one day, who wants to send a head coach. So I see more of a consultant role. And then eventually, as you mentioned, there's going to be a lot of teams next year looking for a guy.

He can fill in and hopefully get a quarterback that can, you know, come to par well with Mike Tomlin. Well, that's the thing about what I've struggled with in Tomlin. I talked about it with Nick Bruin Wilds earlier. It's like leadership and culture, he clearly is the best, right? He's an 11 out of 10. But there are no coaches on his coaching tree. Sure. And there are no quarterbacks that he has developed.

Right, right? He inherited Ben Rothensberger. Yes. And they've never like drafted and developed a start. So what is the value of being an 8, 9, 10, 11 win coach and then losing in the first round of the playoffs and like, or getting blown out in these non-competit? It's five straight playoff losses by double digits. Like to me, if I'm Mike Tomlin and I'm looking for my next job, it's I'm going to go to Cincinnati and replace Zach Taylor because then I have Joe Burrow. Or I'm going to, Sean McDermott leaves.

I'm going to go have Josh Allen. Like I would be very hesitant to say like I'm going to go somewhere that doesn't have a quarterback in place because I've seen Mike Tomlin without a quarterback and you will be just good enough to not be able to draft a great quarterback. Yeah, I mean, listen, his resume speaks for itself and everything you just mentioned is factual. So I can't I can't negate any of that. But I think there's something to say that when you're able to win with a mediocre quarterback, right? When you're able to develop other parts of your football team around a quarterback who's not elite. Yeah, it's no brain. If he's able to land with an elite quarterback

and the culture that's already built, he's a plug-and-play coach. You imagine good things are ahead. But I think the fact that you do have the option of saying, hey, if we don't have a guy, we can win. But if we do get a guy, now we're talking to Super Bowl. That's a rarely a lot of coaches don't have in their back. So I don't know if a story pops to mind,

but like what's it like to be in Mike Tomlin's doghouse? Oh, man. I'm trying. Television friend, right? No, no, just go with.

It's interesting because I think he, one, he's very, like he's very forward. One time I could, I know for a fact, I was late to a meeting. I was downstairs,

ice in my knees, being laid out of the training room, and we had just lost the great Alan Fanica. And I was kind of the next parent to being the leader of the room. And I was late to, I was walking,

I was kind of just hot dog. It was, you know, big old Willie, walking up steps, having a snack, having ice bag, on my knees. And he popped out his office. And he said, hey, you know, leaders don't leave from the back. And I was just like, yeah, he goes, so are you the leader of this room or not? And I'm

like, yeah, of course, cockily, he was like, your leaders don't leave from the back. I'll let you figure that out. And it was just, and it was like one of those slapping those lines, slapping the line like, dog, you can't be him and not be consistent and not do your job and be that guy. And there's times when I used to get fights on the field. And I remember one of my last fights, man, he simply came up to me. He's like, you've got to figure out if you're hurting or helping us. Just like that, it was those little jabs at me that would say, hey, man, you got to figure out if you're helping or hurting us because right now, those are like you're helping us. We got a 15-yard because you decided to throw a punch. And so those are

those little moments that I said, okay, I got to get right. That's coaching right there. Good stuff, Willie. Thank you very much for that. And in Philly, making changes there as well. Kevin Petulow is out. Is that enough to fix the Eagles offense? Big underachievers. this year we'll discuss. We take the O.T. to Philadelphia, where Nick Siriani announced today that the Eagles have fired Kevin Petulow as offensive coordinator. Nick Siriani put out a statement. I've decided to make a change at offensive coordinator. I met with Kevin today to discuss the difficult decision. Ultimately, when we fall short of our goals, that responsibility lies on

my shoulders. That will now be the fifth offensive coordinator in five years for the Eagles. and to me this is the first move. This one was fairly obvious. Jalen Hertz has now had 10 offensive coordinators in 10 years. Going back to college. It's crazy. But he's really smart. He's a greatly like Jalen Hertz can handle a lack of continuity.

Some of his coordinators, it's because he would transfer or go from college to the NFL or some left to get head coaching jobs or some got fired. But like Jalen Hertz will be able to handle it. But if we just put up the Eagles offense this year, and you think about the talent that they have, Jalen Hertz had 10 games with less than 200 passing yards. Only guy with more is Bryce Young. They scored 20 points or fewer, nine times.

Same number as the Jets or the Titans. Think about the talent on Philly compared to the Jets of the Titans. They were shut out in a half four times. Only the Titans had more. I think there needs to be, because Jalen Hertz is coming back. That's that's lot. Siriani is coming back. I don't know, and you guys tell me if I'm wrong,

that you can just run back the personnel and put all of this on Petulow. It feels to me like some sort of locker room shakeup to get everyone's attention to just like a shock to the system. I personally would think AJ Brown's the obvious answer there, given all of the distractions and the nonsense and that his best is probably behind him. To me, I think you need to shake up the roster in a, to the coaching staff when you underachieve that much. Well, yeah, obviously this was the obvious.

This is the obvious. When you look at their offense previous year, last year, Super Bowl run versus their offense this year. I have the numbers to support it. But it was a drastic drop. Yep. And when we get beyond that or get inside of why that was the case, a lot of it had to do with relationship and continuity on the field.

Like a play is going to be a play as a play is called. You now as players have to buy into that play that's called and executed. And that's what we just didn't see out of this offense. So when you talk about AJ Brown, high value guy, we know the production was there when used. What we last saw, it wasn't great for them and or him. However, if you're Holly Roseman, you owe it and you have done this in past where we have to entertain everything. Now, before the deadline this year, the trade deadline,

he mentioned, you know, you don't get rid of a player like that during in the middle of the season. And I agreed with him. I truly did. However, now the season is over. It didn't turn out the way you want to. He's been someone that has been vocal about what hasn't happened offensively and a part of what we would deem,

The problem, whatever, however you want to take that, knowing his level of production, he would be intriguing for opposing offenses. Yeah, listen, and before you answer really real quick. Yeah, exactly. A.J. Brown, to me, is a better receiver than J.L. Hertz is a quarterback. No question. You're going to stick with the quarterback. And it's just easier to move A.J. Brown.

So I don't know if you think that moving Petulow is enough, but so it's not a total indictment on A.J. Brown. It's just sometimes you can move the, you can only move the pieces on the. chestboard that are able to be moved. Yeah, I'm kind of with your thought, and maybe, hopefully I'm not hearing this wrong. It feels like Petulah's a scapegoat. It's the first domino. He is a problem, but he has to be a, he's a symptom of a larger problem.

But the playbook's strunk, and it became stagnant because of the injuries on the offensive line. And I think if you want to get this thing right, A.J. Brown is A. We know he's going to come and go, whatever happens with him. When you talk about Lane Johnson, Jurgens and Dickerson, those guys weren't able to be who they needed to be because of injuries. injuries, that struck the playbook of the Philadelphia Eagles. And it suffered, I mean, Jalen suffered because of it, AJ, the whole offense.

Sequon, most importantly. So that, those stats you show is indicative of one healthy office line. I think they seriously, maybe not the way Beckton played this year. But I thought they undervalued Beckton on that office line because most of Sequant's big home run balls, if you will, those long runs came off the right side. So you had Beckton and Lane Johnson who's really anchoring that line. And as you move forward, I think the next person you have to reevaluate, and I'm not talking about getting rid of him, is how does Jalen Hurts get better in the next year? What does that look like from a schematic standpoint?

And how does the offense evolve? Because it doesn't matter to me, it doesn't matter who the O.C. is, how can you elevate his game? Because what I saw this year from Jalen Hertz was lack of design runs, was missing open targets, seemed like he was panicked in the pocket at times, and wasn't winning on early downs. So that's a Jalen Hertz issue. I don't think that's necessarily a schematic issue. So I think it's a Jalen Hertz issue, but you have to address the offense coordinator because if your quarterback isn't buying into what, again, as I mentioned, what is being called, that's problem out the gate.

The reason why the A.J. Brown thing is something that I think they should, obviously, Harvey Roseman probably will address and probably open the phone lines and take calls. The one thing, the reason why I'm going to be. I think there's a pause and apprehension there is because of the quarterback play. If you say A.J. Brown is gone and you can't guarantee that the player that you bring or the skill set that you, the assets that you get from A.J. Brown is going to help and assist who you believe Jalen Hertz is, then I don't know if you can truly just walk away from A.J. Brown. Sure. I think that there's an argument, though,

addition by subtraction. We just need there to be less noise. And we need to cash in while there is still value and just make it a little easier. That part is true. And just make it a little easier. That part is absolutely true. You've sat here. I've sat here.

We've watched the tape. A lot of the noise came from AJ Brown not getting to football. And he wasn't wrong. No, I know. You know what I mean? So it wasn't him just being a noisy receiver. We turned on a tape. One-on-one.

He's the alpha. Go to him. Jalen was it. I feel you. But they're just not trading. So if they can't coexist anymore, sorry. Mike Tomlin stepped down at Pittsburgh. He did? Is it official?

That's what I keep hearing. So is he a candidate here? Holy . Mike, wouldn't that be awesome? Only if John takes the Pittsburgh child. Fantasy football for AFC North coaches. That will not happen. Yeah. I don't think Mike Tomlin would wear the purple, right?

No, I think he'll probably combust. I'd be caught on fire. It wouldn't happen. Stephen Besotty later in that comment saying, it's like, yeah, you know, I think when he beat us for the division and did the thing with the camera, exactly. He was like, that probably took him out of the running for that job. Another interesting piece of that was that he said that Lamar will be involved

in the head coaching interviews, like for the finalists and all of that there. But 15 teams call Mike Tomlin today, you think? Oh. Yeah. It's 15 jets in Pittsburgh right now. Now landing. Right. Well, because it's, obviously every team with an opening,

but even some places with openings are like, we're not good enough to get like that. You don't believe that. You just feel like you can sell it. He's not coaching the Cardinals. Yeah, we can offer you some ownership staying. A few of the raiders? Well, I think that's what I'm saying.

I think everyone makes the call, but he's sitting out of year. He's going to play it. He's going to wait for his quarterback. As he should. He's going to go to the couch. Couch. Yeah. Tell on you, TV is cushy, Mike.

I'm sorry.