First Things First - Patriots ‘will win Super Bowl’, Must-Win for Week 14, Joel Klatt & Cole Kmet join, NIck’s Tiers

Episode Date: December 3, 2025

(0:00) Patriots Super Bowl odds, Chiefs or Ravens in the playoffs, Can Dallas catch the Eagles? (27:19) Must-Win for Week 14 (42:22) Chris Paul waived by Clippers (48:48) Nick’s Tiers (01:12:06) Joel Klatt joins (01:25:50) What would Shedeur Sanders outplaying Cam Ward mean? (01:30:53) Packed Stats, Can the Cowboys catch the Eagles? (01:52:07) Cole Kmet joins  (02:02:27) Time for Mike Tomlin to leave the Steelers? (02:12:40) Chiefs dynasty over if they miss the playoffs?  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Live from New York, it's a show that's back from ping pong and no longer speaking to Greg Jennings. So that's one issue that we're going to have throughout the show. And the other issue is something we flirted with yesterday and was brought to, you really brought it to the forefront. Yeah. That with the Chiefs, this isn't about the Chiefs. I mean, it's a little bit. A little bit of like a lot of the Chief's success has been the thrust of the show. and that seat has carried a lot of the editorial burden,

which now you've relinquished. And that maybe it's someone else's turn to take the crown. We trade in seats? I think just not permanently, but I'd like to give it a run. Let's see how you do. That if I win the Super Bowl, it's... Well, when you win the Super Bowl, you're about to be a dynasty. But like the questions all have to come to me.

I have to be ready to shoot. Wow. Really? I have to be ready to shoot. Do you have a script for me that other people have a day preparing? First of all, I write the script. I don't, if you see a pun, I don't write it. Can I have script?

That's that. You can have my watch. Ooh, there you go. This is an up here. I got to make my hair look like a nerd. Not true. Thank you. All right.

How does it look, Drew? Oh, my goodness. The hair looks good. Thanks, bro. You know? I've got some of his pomade, too. I love it. Oh, wow.

What a look. All right. Oh, man. Y'all are really going all this. Hold on a second. I'm going to get my arm of a guy who I owe $50,000 to. Hey, hey, that's not what happened. That's not any way to start this.

Wow. All by myself, though. Okay, all right. Today on the show, Patriots moving through the door of destiny. Wow. Is it time to actually start talking Super Bowl? I mean, we're talking Dynasty yesterday. Yeah, right.

Meanwhile, Cowboys Lions tomorrow night can Dallas track down the struggling Eagles. And finally, the best segment in all of sports. Oh, it's going to be good. Still my tears. Also, I'm Nick Wright alongside Chris Broussard. Kevin Wilde, did you drink my coffee? Uh-oh. That one wasn't planned.

Hey, W, how's we feel over there? I like that watch. I feel's a little lonely, to be honest with you, but I like it. I'm going to give it my all. All right, we start with Super Bowl odds. I don't mean to interject, but go ahead. Patriots currently the number one seed in the AFC. They've beaten the bills.

They play them again after they're by, but are behind them in the Super Bowl odds, which will look like this, Rams, Seahawks, Packers, Bills, Eagles, and finally, the 11-win Patriots, which makes no sense because they have the most wins. And obviously, they're going to win the Super Bowl. That's a great point. KW., are you ready to claim somehow a softer claim than you made yesterday when you said they are in the midst of a dynasty that they are going to win this year's Super Bowl? What's all this? I don't know.

I don't quite know how to sit. I don't quite know how to sit. I'm willing to do that today. And Brew, it's largely just the data. Okay? I'm going to show you one, two, three full screens that explain my position perfectly. And I'm not going to go through the history of the Patriots, although when I sit in the seat, oh, I want to start with 2001 and just go through year by year. Number one, I'm really trying to convince you.

You're just there for the hijinks. Yeah, I know. Trust me. Quarterback. All right. We know that Drake May is having a phenomenal year. I think we can show the graphic to you. Leading the NFL and pass a rating, the youngest since the merger, both Drake May and

Dan Marino are 23. Drake May has a slightly better pass rating. Again, leading the entire league. Dan Marino went to the Super Bowl and lost. We don't know what Drake May is going to do yet. And again, I have seen this story play out through my Patriots fandom. So we looked at the times the Patriots went to the Super Bowl. Our winning percentage, 792.

This year, we are higher. Points 26 this year, we are higher. Defense 17, this year we're a little bit, lower, but higher. Points per game differential, 8.8, 8.5. How about teams that have won 10 straight games? Okay, when the Patriots have won 10 straight games, twice we went to the Super Bowl,

once we went to the AFC championship game. So the question is this. I have one more because there's one more kind of flying in the ointment. And this is the most fascinating one. The easiest schedule, I think, is a fair retort, because we have been playing a bunch of tomato cans. Teams to start 11 and 2 or better in the last 10 years. It was the 16 Patriots, the 24 Eagles.

Both of those teams won the Super Bowl. That's what we're on track to do. Now, this is really a shot at my Iron Sharpens Iron Theory. Did those teams, sorry to interrupt, do those teams have the easiest schedule? Yes. This is the easiest schedule to go 11 and 2 or better. Right. This year's Patriots is markedly easier than either of those teams, right?

Am I reading it correctly? Yes. But the 49ers have an even easier schedule, but they're not on there. So this is really a shot brew at my Iron Sharpens Iron. This graphic proves or shows that you can get used to winning. And it's almost like the opposite of what the Texans are going through. Like, ooh, the Texans are going through a murderer's row. And they're supposed to be Iron, Sharp, and Zire.

But maybe they're getting used to losing. So today, although I was forced into it a little bit, I am changing my pick, which is also better editorially for the show, from the Ravens to the Patriots. And also your pick of who's going to win the Super Bowl. I would like to draw that out in an additional segment. See, because my concern sitting in this seat with switching a pick, picking the Patriots when the Super Bowl is very simple. They didn't win last years. So I just don't understand.

I don't get it. Like, they didn't win. They're not the defending champs. So maybe you can convince me, I don't know how they're going to be the champs. They only won four games, in fact. Yeah, exactly. Wilds, here's what I'll give you. The Patriots have as great a chance of winning the AFC as anybody.

You know what? I'll take that. If the Chiefs, if the Chiefs, if the Chiefs, if the Chiefs make the playoffs, they will be the favorite in the AFC. Because they will, they will be hot, most likely coming off five straight wins and obviously the experience factor. But if they are not there, why not the Patriots? Every other team, now Buffalo, you got Josh Allen to deal with. But every other, right, every other quarterback will be unproven. So Drake May, that's the knock on him, as great a season he's having.

He's unproven in the playoffs. Bo Nicks, unproven. Trevor Lawrence. Unproven. Mediocre. Unproven, mediocre. Obviously, Daniel Jones, just a mediocre quarterback somewhat unproven. Yeah, and a broken leg, right.

C.J. Strau has been pretty good in the playoffs. At this point, we're starting to wonder how good really is CJ. Is he a great quarterback? Obviously, Baltimore, Pittsburgh, whoever wins is AFC North, they, you know, if Baltimore gets on a role maybe, but Lamar has had struggles in the playoffs. Yeah, if they get on a role, but they could make the playoffs and not be on a role. And then, you know, they could play the same way and maybe make the playoffs and then you're not worried about it.

Ironically, the team that if they got in the playoffs, and I don't think they will outside of Kansas City that I think would be concerning would be Cincinnati. Now, if they got in, they will have gone on a heck of a win streak and Joe Burrow obviously is proven that would be the one team that I'd worry about.

The Chargers, I don't even know if they're going to make the playoffs and if they do, Herbert's been horrible in the playoffs. So, yeah, why not the Patriots? Can I throw up, I don't like it over here. No, well, hold on. I haven't been able to do any of you. We can trade in a minute. You don't look comfortable.

I would like to be. Nick looks comfortable. I would like to be you for a moment. But I would like you to do your hair regular. No, no, no. I like, this is my new look. I don't even, I can't even do it. It's a side part like you.

So listen, everybody knows. I'm a Drake May guy. I'm beloved in New England. People know this. So much. And so I was doing what I thought was my job today, which is just bouncing around Reddit looking for me. And I did, I have one meme up, I heard your feelings.

And I, listen, you didn't even bring up the fact they might have the best punt returner in the league. Well, I didn't have time. We saw that Monday night. So, I mean, yeah, this is, as I'm regularly on Patriots Reddit, finding stuff for the show. What about Marcus Jones? So here is, so here is my question. I have twofold. First question you was this.

Do you think the Broncos are going to beat the Raiders? Yes. Okay. Then all the 11 and 2 10 game winning streak stuff applies to them. I know. They also have a second year quarterback. Now, I know you in that seat don't like Bo Nix. But the data on Bo Nix last year was stronger than the data on Drake May. Last year.

Last year. And this year, his numbers are better than we talk about him because... Bo Nix's. But they're not close to Drake Mays. No, they're not close to Drake Mays. But the Patriots defense is not close to the Broncos. True. And then there is, here would be the other reason I would pump the brakes a bit.

I thought the Patriots should hire Mike Vrable. I really like Mike Vrable. It is also true that we have seen Mike Vrable overachieve in regular seasons, have an 11-win team win a division and lose his first home playoff game. We have seen Mike Vrable have the number one seed in the first game. the conference to the surprise of everyone and lose his first home playoff game. So, Mike, everything Mike Vrable has done thus far this year to set the culture to get the team turned around, I think he's great.

And I don't think he's like a bad playoff coach. And he hasn't had a quarterback like Drake May. He had Ryan. 100%. Ryan Tannahill often. Shosh Jacobi percent. I just, I think we have seen the Mike Vrable team. teams out execute maybe more talented but more poorly coached teams in the regular season

to the tune of gaudy regular season records and then come the postseason when the talents are closer to equal the team not play to exceed and we've seen it multiple times so that would be a bit of a concern he had one he lost to the chiefs in a and the championship game and then the next year he was an 11 win team with a home playoff game and lost his first one, and the next year was a 12-win team that had the buy and the number one seed and lost a home playoff game. So the next two years, that is what happened. That's a lot to deal with.

You're putting stock in that? No, but I'm just wondering how it's hitting you. That Drake May is twice as good as Ryan Tannahill. I agree. That's that. All right, again, I don't like it over. You want to trade back? Yeah, I want to be back in jokes.

He was literally sitting like this the whole time. It feels like a lot. I am going to keep the watch. No, you have to. There's your watch. I gave your pomade back. It's over there. You don't put pomade on during the program.

All right, we're moving from the Super Bowl winning Patriots to two teams that are 500. Chiefs and the Ravens, both share the same Super Bowl odds. KC. host the Texans. The Ravens hosts the Steelers. Here's some playoff scenarios via Dusty and the athletic playoff predictor. This is a brand new graphic we have. All right now, and I'll bear with me. Right now, the Chiefs have a 37% chance to make the playoffs entering the game.

If they win, it's up to 51%. If they lose, it's down to 11. Baltimore, 64% right now with a win, it's 76. With a loss, it's 30%. Just to sort of dig into what's at stake. So the question is, who do you trust more, the Chiefs of the Ravens, to get their season back on track? Well, look, as much as it pains me to say this, bro the chiefs are the better team oh my gosh i'm nothing if not objective wow the show's not working

i got to tell the truth the chiefs are the better team they've proven it how many times they've beaten them the last three times they played yeah six out of the last seven times they played i think that might even go back that's the beginning of mahomes career uh and lamar as well so they've proven they're the better team obviously mahomes is having a better season, even though this isn't your typical Mahomesian year, it's still better than what Lamar is doing right now. So the Chiefs, and if the Chiefs

make the playoffs, they will be, I firmly believe they'll be the favorite in the AFC. If the Ravens make the playoffs, they might limp in and make it. Not so much, right. Now, if they go on a streak and went out, then Lamar starts playing great again, maybe they'll be the favorite

if the Chiefs are out. That said though, and I think Nick will agree with me, the Ravens have a better chance. Not just the numbers. I am more confident in the Ravens making the playoffs than the Chiefs making the playoffs. Because just the path. The Ravens are more likely to get in.

The Chiefs are more likely to do damage if they get in. Yes. Is what you're saying. And so here's what I feel about Baltimore, though. The defense is legitimate. I'm not worried about the 32 points they gave up to Cincinnati because in that first half, that defense was great.

Four times Cincinnati was in the red zone, four times they forced them to go for field goals. Once it was first and goal from the two and Baltimore stop. This is such a wild switch for you now, though. I know. But I do, look, I sincerely have confidence that Lamar Jackson is going to come out of this.

Now, he might not get to the point where he played early in the season, but he's going to be better than this. And even if he's better but not great, now the coaching staff has to be smart you got Derek Henry and the other two Keaton what's the name Keaton Mitchell is running the ball

pretty well he's averaging six yards of carry like you have a run game that you can go to if Lamar's not the old Lamar for the rest of this season so I feel like I said Kansas City is a better team I would have strong hope for my Ravens if they meet them in the playoffs

but the Ravens do have a better chance of making the playoffs. So, yeah, I mean, to me, this is a no-brainer, and it's less about faith in Kansas City. The Ravens have not looked good once all year. The closest they've come to a game you left feeling great about was a game Lamar didn't play, the win against Chicago. You know what I'll, right. You know what I mean?

And I thought they played, I mean, they blew it. Week one. Yeah. Week one. For 55 minutes, they look like the best team. Right. Their high watermark of the season is the seven-minute mark of the fourth quarter of game one. And then since then, I don't feel like there is a single game.

The Ravens, again, the Bears game maybe, but you feel like that doesn't have Lamar, so it's such a meaningless to what they're going to be moving forward. You can hang your hat on. So the Chiefs have a lot of issues that I've talked about. and the third down stuff, the defense, the offense, having extended flashes of brilliance and extended periods of like doing nothing. And they right now have three starting offensive linemen not practicing. One just went to the IR.

Not good. Coming up against the Texans, not good. But the chiefs do have whole games to look to from this season of like, that's when we showed what we could be. Now, what you could be gets you nothing, but at least it's something to hang your hat on. The Ravens, to me, and this isn't a poke-it brew at all, have been the most disappointing team in the NFL this year. As far as the preseason expectation, the lack of explanation as to why it has gone awry, the fact that they do clearly have a defense that can be competent. So why was it for the second year in a row, the worst defense in football for the first month and a half of the year?

Lamar's mysterious decay for this month of football where he's playing the worst football since his rookie year and statistically the worst stretch of his career. The weird disconnect between the head coach and the star quarterback about when he will and won't play all of it to me is just. season from hell stuff. So I just don't trust the Ravens at all. I don't dismiss the Bengals as a possibility purely because I don't think the Ravens are trustworthy. And I think the Steelers are wholly untrustworthy. Like it to me, it is, I would trust basically every team right now that's ahead of Baltimore in the standings, no, the chiefs of the same record, more than Baltimore.

So do you, Baltimore, what if they might be a big if, win out or go what, four and one down the stretch and look better? That would change my opinion. Yes, as much as I can trust any Baltimore team going into the, the problem for them is double fold for me, Wilde. If they were 14 and 3 and looked awesome, I'd go into the playoffs, be like, yeah, I don't think that's the team we're going to get because it's a team we've never gotten.

So I certainly don't think if they're a team that's 9 and 8, and get to a playoff spot by default because the Steelers fall apart that all of a sudden they're going to play their best football in a year. I just don't trust the Raven. I'm hoping it'll be the inverse. Bad year and then a great playoff. Is there a scenario where they can give Lamar an extra week of rest somehow? Not at this point.

They have to have the attitude where they need to win out. I don't think they have to win out, but they have to have that answer. I know it's not like the greatest analysis. the world, but I just think Lamar's hurt, and he's trying to play through pain or injury or whatever. He can't push off, and everything is down to such a dramatic degree that there's no other explanation other than being hurt. Like, you can't cut. He's, it's, you know, what it was, it was hamstring knee, ankle, toe. So the whole, is it all one side? I don't know that, to be honest with you. They don't know if they tell us. But, well, they got the Bengals. They got

Pittsburgh twice. Show the Ravens schedule. So here would be, like Patriots. Here would be the hope for what you're talking about Wilds. Yeah. It's, it would be this. They beat Pittsburgh and Cincinnati.

Mm-hmm. And then Pittsburgh full on falls apart to where they have the division clenched by week 18. And then they're like, well, we're going to be the four seed no matter what. Doesn't, you know what I mean? We are just resting our guys. guys. It is going that would take a because the team chasing them obviously team they play in week 18 that would take a full on Pittsburgh collapse. That's very much on the board. But that's what that does feel on the board. So that's yeah. But Baltimore also would probably would have to be green bay and new England. Correct to be in that situation. Again, we're looking for a loss. We're so good we're trying to hear that Ravens. We're looking for a loss. We're looking to be a little bit stressed out. So I'm trying to be a nice guy. We're don't want to win all the games. Jerry Jones, not talking about the Super Bowl yet. He is talking

about the playoffs at the Cowboys Lions, which is tomorrow. Here he is. Take a listen. It was just looking 20 and 23 how Philadelphia dropped their last seven in a row. And there, that was in between Super Bowl appearances, I think. So bottom line is, these things get off-celtter. Teams go get better just because of what's out in front of them, and teams do drop off. Our best shot, I think, is to win the division. That might be true. The Eagles are still heavy favorites. This is their dual pass.

The Eagles have Chargers, Raiders, commanders, Bill's commanders, while the Cowboys have the Lions again on Thursday. Vikings charges, commanders, giants. Man, I could see it. Are you giving the Cowboys any chance to catch the Eagles? that up for a second because it's very simple. The Cowboys have to win two more

games than Philadelphia does. So let's just assume the Cowboys go four and one. Because I think just saying, oh, if they run the table, man, it's very, very hard to run the table. Yep. So four and one though, to me, it's like, okay, go two and one

against the Lions Chargers and at the commanders and beat the teams you're definitively supposed to beat the Vikings and Giants. That's, that's doable. Yeah. Can you see Philadelphia going two and three? That's the question.

The question is that simple to me. Can you see Philadelphia losing three of those games? And I see two. I have so little faith in the Eagles infrastructure, even though I have so much faith in the overall talent of the roster, that I could see them winning their next two and then at the commanders getting clipped with Jaden being back. That's a divisional road game.

at the bills in a game the bills need and then finding themselves in, oh my God, we're at home in week 18 where if we win, we win the division and if we lose, the Cowboys win the division. You could start getting booed in the first quarter. Correct. And so like that's where the more logical path would be they lose to the Chargers.

They lose their three road games essentially. At the Chargers, at the commanders, at the Bills. And that's how it happens. but I think Philly's D-Line is good enough to beat the Chargers alone like the Chargers banged up off and the line Philly D-Line

that should swing that game. I just don't trust right now, Brew, Philadelphia's ability to stave off a 20-23-esque collapse. Well, I think the chances are very slim that the Cowboys can pass them. They're not non-existent.

And I will change my... I think this week's game is huge. I don't think Philly has fallen off as much as you do. Like, I feel like they're fine. You lose some games in the regular season. You have some bad performances, but they have championship medal. They'll be fine. If they lose to the Chargers, three straight losses,

that's when I will believe the Supernatural Funk is here. Okay. So if they lose to the charges, it could be worse than you point out. If they lose to the Chargers and the Funk comes back, they darn near lost out two years ago after going 10 and 1. So I think they could really fall off and that would be the problem. But I expect them to beat the Chargers and then they'll be fine and they'll hold off the Cowell. So when I'm back in this seat, I can just tell more ridiculous stories.

When over there, I have to do hardcore. You got a Reddit post? No. No, one Reddit post. I was in a relationship. Wow. This will be good. This will be good. This is serious.

Lean in in here. It's like early 20s. And we went on a double date. Early 20-20s? No, early 20. I was in 20-something. I was in 20-something. And we went out on a double date with my, another couple who eventually got married.

And I thought I was in a good relationship. And then I saw how they were interacting. I was like, oof. You guys really in love, huh? I thought I was doing good. But I was like, we don't rock like that. When you say that the Eagles are fine, the Patriots are fine, we see the Bears locker room is fine. I see how the vibes in Seattle are fine.

The Rams are not fine, man. They're not even close to fine. But the vibes, all right. How the Bears said? If the Eagles lost to the Carolina Panthers, you'd be, this is what we do with the Eagles. We were doing this last year. A.J. Brown's reading books on the sideline. They're not fine, though.

They're in trouble? Well, so I would just two very quick things. First one, what I thought you were going to say is the relationship between coach and quarterback that's going to be the dichotomy Monday night. Between Justin or Jim Harbaugh, who's like, I will fight and die for the best quarterback of all time. And then what has always seemed to be, you know, a marriage of convenience between Siriani and Hertz. I thought that's where you were going with it. the other here's what I

would say to you, Brew. If we were to say all of the teams in the league that are eight and four or better, power ranked them and most likely to collapse. I think everyone would have indie right now number one. Yes.

Because the quarterback's got a hairline fracture and his shin. And then the next two picks, I think, would probably be the two teams playing this weekend. The Chargers are certainly The Chargers Eagles

He's got a broken hand Yeah, well yeah Because this is what we do with the Eagles And it's their own doing They brought it on themselves But this is what we do with them All right. Coming up next. I am going to need that watchman.

I know, but we'll see how must be it. I feel you guys. I'm glad you're keeping it. That is nice. It's a nice gesture for a little bit. I like Christmas president. Bossman next. Thank you to everyone who is writing very kind things to us about their Spotify rap list of listening to the podcast many times.

We got news from Gianna that we are not number one. I had bad intel there. But we are top 100, but not right now. No, I think we are right now. She said no. No, this minute. But we are going up against like the horrible crime podcast. I don't think that's a member when you tried to turn us into a crime podcast?

and your silly promo that you put every day? That's when we probably were number one. It's time now for a segment that grows, more literal by the day, must win. Greg Jennings is here, Bears in Green Bay. Packers are almost seven-point underdogs. Now, Chicago has feasted. Packers, by the way, are almost seven-point favorites.

Packers are almost seven-point favorites. As they should be. Ever since Greg showed up and destroyed me in Pinkville. He did destroy you, too. It was bad. It wasn't good. But let's just keep. I was good in practice.

So here's the thing. Green Bay does not give the ball up. Chicago takes the ball away. I never like leading the league in take away. It's just my own take. Greg, coach won the last edition of must win. So that seat has control of the board. You can choose to pass or play.

I'm going to play. Wow. Excellent. This is absolutely a must win for the Green Bay Packers. When you look at this game, obviously we go to the field first and we look at the quarterback position and the Green Bay Packers have for a long time had the best quarterback in this series for a long time. Now with addition of Ben Johnson at the head coach position calling plays, being creative, using Caleb in ways to where he's not there yet, but this offense looks really good. There's a lot of buzz coming out of Chicago. Records out the window, I don't care.

It's Green Bay Bears. Packers, they're at home. You get it done. You need this game. You play them in a couple weeks. It's important for both teams, yes, but it's definitely more important for you. You're in the back seat. You need to get in the driver's seat.

That's what we do. Cheese heads all day. We win. Next topic. We don't need to talk to these guys. Greg's correct. That wasn't quite as good as your pick on the play. They play again.

a couple of weeks. So for neither team is this even a metaphorical must win? It is, however, for one individual, because there's only one person involved in this series that guaranteed a split. I'm guaranteed more,

better than a split, pardon me, a sweep. And that is Ben Johnson. It is a muster. Well, I'll bring it to you in just a moment. This is the second straight must win for Ben Johnson because of some offseason comments. Last week, He was playing the Eagles, the team who he denigrated their beloved tush push, and his team

helped him walk that walk when they not only stopped the tush push but forced a turnover on it. Ben Johnson, the day he was introduced as the head coach of the Chicago Bears, whose name came out of his mouth about beating him twice a year. Listen to Ben Johnson. To be quite frank with you, I kind of enjoyed beating Matt LaFlefort twice a year. Well, you can't beat them twice if you don't beat them this time. It's a must win for Ben Johnson. Now you can probably go along.

Go ahead because, Brew, save your ammo for the next one. It is a, you know, what? Green Bay. It's a must win for Green Bay. Here's the thing. All of Ben Johnson's bluster aside, it's already a successful season for the Bears. They're not asked Bob.

They get into the playoffs, which they look like they'll do. It's a great season. All right. For Green Bay, I know they're the youngest team in the league for the third straight year. But you know what they also are? You know what they also are? What? They are a team that for the third year is going to make the playoff, third straight year.

They are a team that's been knocking at that door, chipping away. Look at some of the other teams that have chipped away for a little while. you think, oh, this is the beginning of something special. Does it look special right now in Detroit? No, the window may have closed on them. Does it look special right now in Baltimore? No, the window may have closed on them. How about Buffalo?

No, the way, it may have. It's just that if you keep knocking at the door but can't push it in, then it starts to wear on you and you can start to go the other way. So they need to show Chicago. We are the class of the division. We are the team headed to the playoffs. Thank you, Wallace, for the point. I'm just telling you strategically, it's good to run the anchor leg.

Brew. Thank you. You did all right, Nick. That was a good try. That was a good try. Next up, Bengals in Buffalo, Joe Burrow, keeping playoff hopes alive. Now, Josh, get this, hasn't beaten Joe Burrow. I didn't realize this.

It hasn't played that well during it. But two games. But look, 14 points, completion percentage, only 63, under 300 total yards, three touchdowns, two turnovers, and pass-ver rating in the 70s. Nick, the board is yours. I noted KW. Yeah. That unlike last week, you did not put a prohibition on our answers. I mean, tread carefully.

But a goody. But this is a vintage, classic. Not that rare, but still important. Double must win. For Buffalo, this is, if not now, when are you going to break through? The bills, if they can't make the Super Bowl this season, and they can't win, they might not even have to go through Patrick, might not even have to go through Lamar, win this game,

you don't even have to go through Joe Burrow, then it is legitimate while I'm not ready to talk Patriot. dynasty, it is legitimate talk. Did we miss our window of even being the best team in our own division without ever making a Super Bowl? So they have to start stacking quality wins. And for the Bengals, it's a literal must win. They have to win all of their games. If they do, by the way, they'll win that division.

Because the Steelers, unless the Steelers Ravens are going to sweep each other, the Bengals have a really good opportunity. Your beloved athletic playoff predictor has them north of 80% to win the division if they went out no matter what everybody else does, but if they lose, they're down just a couple percentage points. It's a true vintage double must win. You're in a tough spot because a double must win, it kind of takes a lot of oxygen. It's not the double must win.

Oh, all right. The, the bills are making the play. You just said their window was closing. Okay. But beating Cincinnati is not going to reopen the window. Losing. Okay. All right.

All right. This is a must win for Joe Burrow and the Bengals. Why did you bring him back? I mean, I get, you know me, I'm old school, I'm Bruto. I love his talk about, you know, if I'm healthy, I'm playing. It doesn't even cross my mind to sit out a game. I'm a football player, all right. I get all that, and I get how the teammates might respect that,

but this is also a business, all right? And you have an injury prone franchise quarterback. And so why in the world did you bring him back? It's because you thought you had hope of making the playoffs. If you lose this game, your playoff hopes are over, and Joe Burroughs still going to want to play. But the morale in the locker room will be low. They have nothing to play for, and then injury is a greater possibility. So they need to win this game.

Wow. Stay in the playoff race. This is a must win for the Buffalo deals. While you put it on the screen before we even started this, Josh Allen hasn't beaten Joe Burrow. This is an opportunity. it's laid up for you if you are the Buffalo Bills. You got your running game back on track. You're playing against an offense that is led by the passing game.

Well, what does your defense do well? We stop the pass. You don't pass against the Buffalo Bills. And so if you're Joe Burrow in this happy pass attack, I don't care if your toe feels a little bit better. You're playing against our defense. And the strength of our defense is stopping the pass. Josh Allen's going to get back on track

because going into the stretch, of the season. You got to have great quarterback play and you got to protect the ball better. You got the running game. Get it done. Buffalo, this is a must win. Get it done. Appreciate that Wilde, even though yesterday was hard for you. I appreciate you putting it down there. The rare

point to the double must win. Thank you. KW. It was obvious. This one, now Greg, you're in love. It's okay. This one, this one is worth double. Eagles Chargers. This is a bonus round. It's been, I think, three must win since Brew got a point. This is Eagles Chargers. If you see Tray Lance there peeking over Justin Herbert's shoulders because Justin Herbert did not practice today.

So he might get the start if Herbert can't go. These two teams statistically more similar than I expected, except that it turns out the Eagles are outgained on the season by 500 yards while the Chargers outgain their opponents by 800 and almost 60 yards. So it doesn't totally mean a lot because they're both eight and four, but it's interesting. Josh told you and so we put it on the TV. You don't think that's interesting? Minus five oh nine. You just said it doesn't mean. I thought it was interesting until the person was telling me about it was like it's not that important.

Well, it's still a in four. I'm saying it's something. Okay. Brew, you have a chance to steal the victory because this is worth two. Where's this must win for? I got a call from someone earlier today. Oh, and an acquaintance. And he's out in L.A.

And he can't, he's a big Eagles guy. He can't wait to get on the flight with them after they play the Chargers back to L.A. He's going to be on the point. He wants to be. Is that a lot? His name's Esson. Essend Funk.

Short for supernatural fun. This is a must win for the Eagles. because if they lose this game, Essend Funk, Supernatural Funk is getting on that flight with them cross-country and their season could be over. Wow. But it is the rare double must win. Because when the Chargers have you seen their schedule?

We talk about win out. They could lose out. Land the plane. They could lose out. So this is the double must win. You need to go with the dog. But it is. The Chargers have Philly, Kansas City, Dallas, Houston, and Denver.

I know, but you did the cool. Well, give it to me for the beginning. Then it was fired. It's still open because he fumbled it at the goal line with the double must win. Yeah, he was right at the end. It is a double must win. Oh, Greg, going to do a must win. It's definitely a double must win.

You can't copy me like that. Can you sit down like you did, like you chose to yesterday for the holiday party? Okay. It's a double must win. You're lucky or you wouldn't have won that beat ball champion. It's a double must win because if you are Philly, the last thing you want to do is have to put up a rear view mirror because somebody is on your bumper, and that's the Dallas Cowboys.

Get it done and the mirror's down. You remove that. And when you go to the Chargers, guys, it is time. Joe Burrell, I don't care who's hovering over your shoulder. They don't get the plate. You gotta play. I hate to do. You gotta put stuff to sleep.

And right now, I'm gonna stand up, get out my box. He said Joe Burrow. Put this red monster to sleep in their season, period. It is a must win for you and the Eagles. Chargers. Wow. Craig. Greg.

You know how when you were playing, they would say the eye in the sky, don't lie. Go back and do film study. When you look at that film, when you go back and look, you're going to. I'm saying, man, I did everything right, except I called Justin Herbert Joe Burrow. And then I started yelling at Nick. You're so close. It's just like stepping out of bounds.

You know what I'm helping the touchdown. He reached for the pylon at the end while celebrating early, and now all of the son's touchback. This guy made the catch of the year, and we looked and he only got one foot in bounce like it's college. So I'm just going to go out and tell you, it's a single must win. It is only a must win for Philadelphia because the Chargers have the built-in excuse of our

quarterback has a broken hand and had surgery a few days ago. They also, oddly, have more of a margin of error than Philadelphia does if we believe the Cowboys are about to go on the run that we all talk about and because Philadelphia has the funk hanging over them. They have spent all their draft resources for five years on building the biggest, baddest, defensive line in football and they traded for another guy at the deadline. The Chargers offensive line is their biggest weakness. Jalen Carter and Jordan Davis and Jalen Phillips will win this game by themselves.

It'll be a de facto home game for Philadelphia. All their fans will go cross country to L.A. for the game. It's a must win for the Eagles. In my defense. In my defense. My mistake. Oh no. No, no, no.

Joe Burrow, Justin Herbert. Okay, both J. But yesterday's mistake, I'm just following the trend of this show. This is what we do. Oh, no. Oh, he's throwing our producers under the bus. No, I'm throwing you under the bus. Ryan, what did I do?

What did I do? You okay the mountain. There's no way Ryan Tannenhill's face should have been on. Jacoby percent. The point you made about everyone getting on the plane reminding me of Esson getting on the plane. Bruton! Yes, baby! There's a guy named Esson.

His last name, Bump. Thank you. Back wearing. It belongs. The trophy is back where it belongs. Come back. Thank you. Chris Paul. Chris Paul just got let go by the clippers.

What is going on? That's next. I'm first thing. Chris Paul was expected to retire a clipper. It's going to be nice. Raised jersey to the rafters, maybe a statue. Not so much. Let go last night in Atlanta, which was extra weird.

Sean's reporting that quote, his leadership style clashed with the clippers, went on on to write. Paul has been vocal in holding management, coaches, and players accountable, which the team felt became disruptive. Specifically, Ty Lou was not on speaking terms to Paul for several weeks. Wow. No idea how he got checked into the game. Brew, what questions does this release raise for you? Well, no questions, but like you guys know on the call this morning before a lot of this reporting was out there, I said, Chris is, can be difficult to play with. And obviously he's a first ballot Hall of Famer, all time great.

But he is, he's a great leader. We saw that everywhere he went, they improved. But he's always talking and directing and telling you to go here, you to go there. And when he's great, which he has been for his career, you put up with it. But when you're not anymore and you're hardly even getting playing time, then it can become hard to handle. And I think taking that to the coaching staff and the front office is why they felt it was disrupted. Now, all that said, you can't, I don't care what was going on.

This is arguably the best player in your franchise. The former president of the Players Association of First Ballet Hall of Famer, one of the best point guards ever. You sit, it got bad, obviously. You sit down with him and you just like, look, we can't keep on with this. I would try to get him to retire and then we send him out ceremonially with a great ceremony at a game or whatever and make it look like his decision.

If he didn't want to... That's not going to work. He's averaging two points. I mean, he knows that it's over. But if he didn't do that, then I would just keep him on the team until I can trade him on December 15th. Because I just, I don't think it looks good for the clippers.

They're already a franchise that everybody thinks is a joke. And now you do this to your best player ever argument? All right, listen, I like Chris Paul a lot. I know Chris Paul a little. I'll say that on the front end. Chris Paul started all 82 games last year for the San Antonio Spurs. The Clippers signed him and he understood and the agreement was, hey, you're not going to have that role.

Because we're going to be so deep and so good, you're going to have a lesser role. Well, when Kauai's not around and Beal's injured and the team is awful and Chris, Chris, the reporting is his, you know, anger or whatever it was, was not directly about him not playing, but about things that he thought the team could do better. And I love Tailu. I love Tailu. You all are meeting.

And if I don't know the personal relationship there, maybe it was too toxic. You cannot treat this player this way. I would argue any franchise can't. Certainly not the Clippers. Just a quick reminder of how great. Chris Paul's career has been. He's one of three guys in the history of the league with 20,000 points and 10,000 assists.

He's second all time in assists and steals, arguably the two biggest point guard stats to John Stockton. Second, all time in both those categories, and you send him home in the middle of the night. And so I think it's outrageous. I also think, and I understand there is a lot of seeming, this guy must have a ton of ton of media friends. And I don't get it. I'm sure he's a good guy. But at what point do we say,

hey, Lawrence Frank, how's the decade gone? You've had the most expensive team. You did create potentially an unstoppable dynasty, but it's in Oklahoma City. You're giving them that pick this year. There is this unrelated to you,

we think, scandal hovering over the team. You've won three playoff series in a decade. Every year, this year, You re-sign Kauai after he went horribly on his front of you. This year the plan was, it's going to sound crazy. What if we get even older?

And I think that'll work. And now you're a train wreck and you're disrespecting Chris Paul on the way out the door. I don't get it. I don't understand why no one is held to account for what has been. Balmer has thrown unlimited resources. Maybe some resources is not even supposed to have access. us to into the team and you can't compete. So let me ask you, like I said, we're in agreement that you can't do it this way.

How do you think they should have done it? You heard me say try to get him to retire, send him out ceremoniously, or trade him. I honestly, when I'm in the midst of this swoon and I'm five and 16, I might be like, all right, hey, Chris, whatever you think we should do, we'll try it for a week. Why not? There's no, there's nothing to lose. There's nothing to lose. He and Ty Lou.

obviously at odds if the reporting is right. So you can't I don't think you can underman Ty Lou like that. And I wouldn't want to do that and I love Tyloo but I think that if they were winning and Chris was upset that's one thing. But they are certainly

underachieving this year. Yeah, we're here you out. Yeah. We're only better than the Pelicans. I hear you about. You might have a point. Just quickly to try to end on an optimistic note, what do you think is next? The question I would have is like, what's next for Chris Ball. Do you see another team? We know he wanted to like be a dad more after being

sort of on the road a long time. He talked about that when he joined the Clippers to be home in L.A. Do you see him going somewhere else? Do you have a spot for him, bro? I mean, look, I have great respect for Chris. So whatever he does, I support. I think he probably should hang it up. I want him to get a farewell, man. In early January, the Lakers get an open roster spot and he'd stay in L.A. LeBron have someone to play cards with his age. I don't know. You know what? I like because Houston needed a point guard, but they're

number one offense in basketball. Like the Knicks kind of makes sense, but I don't think he wants to be cross country from his kids. Tears next. Live from New York, it's a show that's a little bit upset at Greg Jennings in his table tennis dominance, but not

super. Greg. I thought you took it easier. He played well. Greg played me left-handed and beat me. Is that true? Yeah, but I'm terrible. I don't walk around and be like, I'm letting everybody know I have a ping pong board in my house.

That would, and I use it to exercise my traps. I don't do that like some people. I call it ping pong. Second hour person. Today, what would Shador out playing Cam Ward mean to his career? Interesting discussion. Meanwhile, Joel Cloud is here to talk Ohio State, Indiana, and the latest Lane Kippin drama.

We'll try to figure that out. But right now, oh, you're in for a real treat last night in a well-lit shuffleboard arena, a rag-tag committee of analysts, savants, and people with very tight-fitting jackets. I had a bigger torso than that. Fought and toiled and burned the midnight oil to deliver the best segment in all sports. It's an honor and it's a privilege. It's time for Nick's tears. What KW's alluding to there is for our A-Block bit, we all over a block bit, we all over a

Also, I was going to wear one of my louder sport coats, and then when we switched seats, he was going to put on my sport coat. But the guy's just too jacked. He was like, this thing won't button. It's like a boy's large. He's like, it's Oshkosh by gosh. I'm like, they don't make those for adults. So we couldn't do, we couldn't do the fit. Sears, robot.

Oh. Did Brue just say Sears or Robotsky? I said Sears Robots. Yeah, I had a hear of husky pants. I think that was a brutus thing. All right. A quick update on the eliminations because no one was facing elimination last week. And so there are no fresh eliminations.

We are still sitting on these 11 eliminations. And because it is very important to the committee to never have to un-eliminate a team, and thanks to our favorite tool, the athletic playoff predictor, you look at it, You look at it, no one this week actually is facing elimination. Oh. So to the tiers, the bottom of the tiers, the dumb AFC North. And here's what I mean. It's just the dumb, I mean, and here's what I mean.

The fact that Cincinnati is sitting there at, what are they, brew, four and eight. And they're not facing elimination. No, no, with life and with a little margin of error. I'm like, okay. Do they have a market? Yes. If they lose this week and then went out,

they're like 60% to win the dumb AFC North. Don't be fooled. This is not about this team's chances to make the playoffs, which are slim, but that's not what I'm telling me. You are going to have the choice this off season to activate a fifth year, very expensive option on Bryce Young. Don't be fooled into doing that.

He's had a nice, he's had a few nice games. Not even giving him a few. I would, yes, that's what I'm saying. I would not do that. No, well, you get him, you get him next year no matter what. Next year's year four. Oh, you don't have to make the decision on the fifth year option this offseason. I think he has earned coming back next year, which was in question.

I do not think you want to necessarily tie yourself long term financially, even if he puts, He did have a great game this past weekend. A couple more of those together. Wholly untrustworthy. And at least one of these teams is making the playoffs. The Colts and the Jags. They both sit at 8 and 4. The Jags seem to be in the far better position right now.

They are the Colts after, you know, the Magic Act, you know, Act 1 ended, Act 2 has not quite been as dazzling. And the offense has gone from the 07 Rams to the Jeff Fisher Rams. So that's not, or the 01 Rams, pardon me. The Jags, on the other hand, man, they, it is impressive they have overcome the injuries. Brian Thomas is back, but to him, Travis out for the year, injuries to the offensive line. And the fact that Trevor's numbers this year are some of the worst of his career, and they are still in that position. But week to week, it's very, very difficult to trust them.

Now, I do have to say, KW, you might be a little angry at Marshall. who names the tears for some of the ones coming up because they could be viewed as poking fun at a take of yours. Bob tried to talk him out of it. Bob. I haven't talked about Bob on the committee. I thought the name, wow, how did he get on there

with a regular name? Again, Bob tried to talk him out of it. Thurgood, Martian, Marshall, Martian. Potential dynasty and actual dynasty. So the Chiefs actual dynasty is obvious what it is, But by the new rules about what it takes to all of a sudden, OSHA inspectors like there might be a dynasty around here, best I can tell,

it's a good record, a young quarterback people believe in, a coach people believe in. Dynasty DNA. And again, so they check a lot of those same boxes, maybe not quite as many, but again,

I think the example you used on Twitter was if I were making a pizza and I had the dough and all of this. So just again, potential and actual dynasty. And right now, Chiefs and Chargers as a bonus, I think it's going to come down to them for the final playoff spot in the AFC. They're going to get two from the AFC South, two from the East, one from the dumb AFC North, and the Broncos in one of those two teams.

Playoff matchup we deserve. Niners Bucks, Purdy Bake Show. First thing's first bowl, three and a half or whatever it would be. And it's a likely one where the Bucks are the three or the four seed. and the Niners or the five or the six seed, that it certainly is in play that we get that. And I'd be two teams, the two most injured NFC playoff teams that they've overcome it, you know,

throughout the course of the year, two teams who have oddly polarizing quarterbacks with very different paths and two teams, that I think most people believe whatever their ceiling is, it's a run beneath the Super Bowl, not everybody believes that, but most, I think it's a playoff match we could get. Wow, I couldn't, I couldn't believe it.

More potential dynasties? Well, the Eagles have already won one. So like they're, I mean, they're way ahead of the game. And you look at the Texans, they have a coach we believe in. CJ Strouds won playoff games. They have a great defense. I'm just telling you, they check a lot of those boxes. Dynasty DNA.

I mean, I mean, you can say that. Mike Vrable spent time with the team. Like, there's a lot of connection there. So again, and by the way, right now this moment, I think they're the same caliber teams. I think the Eagles and the Texans, if they played on a neutral field right now, it's about a coin flip game with how the Texans are playing and how confident they are. And then the Eagles in the opposite situation. Fork in the road moment tomorrow night, Cowboys Lions for their season, that is.

Not for the franchising movement. I think both the Cowboys almost no matter what are going to feel very optimistic going into next year. The Lions, I think, can gather themselves if they have a disappointing season. But the loser of this game is in brutal shape. And it feels like the Lions should have a bigger margin of error, but they don't because the top of the NFC is so top heavy. So Thursday night, Fork in the Road moment. I couldn't believe.

Wow. So many dynasties. All second year quarterbacks. All coaches we love. Goddy records. And you were talking about a 10-win team, an 11-win seed, a nine-win team. The Broncos had a mini-dynasty once upon a time. The Bears had the greatest single-season team ever.

And the Patriots are the Patriots. I'm just, I mean, look at this. You can't have a dynasty in the, when there is the old dynasty in the AFC West. The, okay. Okay, my bad. I wasn't quite sure of the rules, but I mean, that's a, that's a fifth of the league that is on the doorstep of a dynasty. I'll tell you who's not.

I don't. Hang it on by thread. I also think all three of these teams right now are same caliber. Really, really good. And what's up, K.U. Nothing. Go ahead. Really, really good. Need to see them do something in the postseason to full on buy into them.

But their regular season resumes are wildly impressive. Two of them lead the conference. And the one that doesn't is if they win this weekend, they then start leading the conference in Denver because they have the tiebreaker with New England. Now or literally never, the Buffalo Bills. If they can't make the Super Bowl this season, why would anyone think the path will ever be laid out more perfectly for them moving forward?

We've already talked about the AFC teams that are ahead of them in the standings, have wholly unproven quarterbacks. The teams with the proven quarterbacks are going to have to fight. They're playing playoff games right now just to get an opportunity to get there. those teams, Buffalo would potentially have home field advantage, certainly against the Chiefs, if they were to meet in the postseason, if the Chiefs were to get there, this has to be the year for the bills. A triple plus A games, the Packers and the C-homes. Both of these teams, you feel like you just know nine out of ten games, the defense is going to be somewhere from good to spectacular.

And when the offense is rolling as well, those two, they look like they're the best team. in football. And Seattle has been probably the least covered, excellent team this year. Green Bay, we have seen less a triple plus games from them than the other really good teams. When they have played it, they've looked great. And then at the top, despite coming off a loss, pretty clearly the best team. A team that right now I think can feel like we can beat with our defense, we can beat with our offense, our quarterbacks won a Super Bowl, our head coaches won a Super Bowl. We have a great wide receiver duo. And And that, Greg Jennings, are the week 14 tiers.

I'm going to jump down to the wild so many dynasties because you said something as you were talking about those three teams, the Patriots, the Broncos, and the Bears and said those teams are pretty much the same. I completely disagree. Tell me. The New England Patriots, wilds, I got you, man. Wow. They need, before I continue, in case, I'm not jumping ship off the Buffalo bills, but leave room.

in your back seat with the boys, because I might take a ride with you. Let's go. That's the belief that I have in this team. Like, they should be higher. Wow. They should be much higher on this team. We talk about checking boxes.

And again, we know they have a really good coach, Coach of the Year candidate. They've been excellent. But what they have that those other three teams on that same road do not have and haven't had consistently all season is a conductor under center. And what he's been able to do, he being Drake May, he has been extremely special. When we talk about games that matter, and we'll see in the postseason,

because these teams will be in the postseason, if we are to cast a bet and have belief in a team, we are typically going to lean to the team that has the proven quarterback. Okay. None of them have that. They have the best quarterback. Based on what we've seen through the course of this season, he is unrattled. It doesn't matter. what he's faced against, he has the goods to deliver.

And it's not because he has some extremely great weapon. Totally great. But he just knows how to spread the ball around. When you look at these numbers and people don't take an account how impressive this is to do, but 400 yards receivers in this game, five, they have five. That means this young man includes everyone. There is no offensive player on this roster that gets into that huddle and doesn't believe he's getting an opportunity to make a play. Why? Because Drake May is going to utilize everything.

He's not going to focus on one player. And I haven't even talked about the defense. I'm solely talking about this team offensively because I believe in this young man. I believe in his posture, his demeanor. Obviously the way he speaks. He talks about being a conductor. and he's been one of the best conductors at the quarterback position we have seen all year long proven or not. I like this team going into the rest of the season.

Can I ask a question for Greg? Just because now I'm getting fired up. Go. There's a screen grab that's made its way around social media, but the Kyle Williams touchdown that the one he got in barely. The balls in the air, and I think both Mack Hollins and Stefan are like celebrating. It's almost like a Steph Curry type thing, Clay Thompson. Do you think that spreading the ball around that?

And I know we give a lot of credit to like Vrabel, the Culture Setter, that that also is a foundation of a good culture. Like, I'm going to get mine. You can get yours, you can get yours, and they're all rooting for each other. Is that just variable? Absolutely. And I think it has a lot to do with Josh McDaniels and just allowing his quarterback to understand you don't have to focus in on one guy.

A lot of times when you have a young quarterback, you're in their ear saying, hey, you got your checkdown, you got this guy, you got this guy, they're letting him play. So go back to the tiers real quick because I want to just respond to Greg, because it is undeniable that right now the Patriots have the best quarterback of the three. It's undeniable. I think he's a top five quarterback in the league moving forward, and I think he's been the, if I had an MVP vote, he'd be second and the other two quarterbacks wouldn't be in your top 15.

I get that. The point that, the reason I think they are closer. than you clearly do is the records, it's two loss, two loss, three loss. So the records are very similar. The coaches are all coaches, I think, we believe in. Ben Johnson, the least experienced. Sean Payton hasn't had the success recently

but the Super Bowl champion, Braeball just one of the most respected coaches. They're the same quarterback class. We've only seen one of them in the playoffs and that was a disaster. The other two, we've seen a lot of great quarterbacks, not be great quarterbacks, their first playoff game.

So that's at least a question. Mark. Patriots have the best quarterback, the second best of the three, second best defense and worst running game. The Broncos have the best defense, the second best running game, and the worst quarterback. The Bears have the best running game, the second best quarterback, and the worst defense. So I think that there are, I agree with you that I almost always, tie goes to the quarterback. Sure. When it's a young quarterback, I need to see him play in his first playoff game before I give him that tie goes to him stamp. So that's all.

That would be the point that I met. All right. I hate to rain on Seattle's parade. But they're good. But drop the Seahaw. Why? I'm about to tell you why. Because they have beaten one team, one, Greg, that would currently be in the playoffs.

They are one and three against playoff teams right now. One in three. All right. And I've heard a lot of chatter about good quarterbacks, best quarterback, proven quarterbacks. Seattle's got a proven quarterback, proven to mess up when the chips are the highest. I mean, look, and I'll leave the door open for him to maybe turn it around. But so far, last year, when the games really got tight and you could win the division and you play in the playoffs, he was terrible. This year, here's his record against playoff teams and against non-playoff teams.

Look at the numbers. Passer rating plummet. That's a fine pass-a-rating. It's fine, but it's fine, but look at him against non-playoff teams. Look at the touchdown and interception. That was all one game. Yeah, but the touchdowns are all one game, too. We have four against Tampa, so it kind of evens out.

Yards per game, he throws for a lot maybe because they're trailing. But my point is he doesn't play well in the big moments. and obviously those are going to become big moments. And here's the thing. As the expectations of him and the team rises, he has started to struggle a little bit. His last four games, three touchdowns, five intercession. That's one game is all of it.

Is the four picks? Should we just erase that one? No, I'm just saying I don't think it's a trend. Losing in the playoffs would be one game. That's all he takes. I don't think it's a trend. And these aren't even playoff teams. Three of the last four games against nine playoff teams.

The problem is the guy who he's on the same level as the last two games we've seen him in the playoffs. He's been all. But hold on. Here's what I said. No, he was great his first playoff game and then his second playoff game. That means a lot. Look at those top four teams you have. The Rams obviously have a proven Super Bowl champion.

Everybody's All-American. Look, J-Lo went into Jerry World. Yes. Where they had won what, 15, 16, 16. It was two years ago. 16 straight games and got busy on them. Obviously, Josh Allen, then Donald. J-Lo was worse in the playoffs last year than Darnold.

Yeah, but he at least has shown you he can do it. He had a bad game. Donald, from what we see now, it looks like the moment might be too big. J-Lo just had a bad game. It wasn't the moment. That's the part I don't know if I agree with you. Well, why wouldn't the moment have been bad, talk too big? You're going to bat, you know, a thousand or over for your careers.

But I think Seattle's really, really, really good. I just want to drop them a level, but you got them too. Okay. I think the bills are riding on reputation. I've been singing the same song since week one of the bills. I'm like, eh. And I know everyone likes the bills because they're a little bit like a steakhouse in the city. We're like, oh, this is going to be great.

And you get in there, like, I don't know. I was in here two years ago. It was just a little bit better. Here's why. One, Sean McDermott's defense is not the same as it used to be. You can be okay. You can be great at stuff. That's the best case scenario.

You can be middle of the road at stuff. That's an okay scenario. But being dead last in things is really bad. Does it offset at all that their past defense ranks are almost the exact opposite of this? Not to me. Okay. I like running the ball. I like when it gets cold, you're going to be handing that thing off and like, uh-oh, right up the middle on this bill's defense.

Two, Josh Allen, underpriced. pressure. And this is just a 2024. He didn't get sacked at all. He also won the MVP. He had the fewest sacks in 12 or more start. This year he's tied for the six most sack. A lot of these sacks. And again, I'm going to have to go back and watch all these sacks. But when I go back and watch all these sacks, they're not sort of what I call a Miles Garrett sack where it's like boom, Don Josh Allen's down. It's a lot of him looking down the field trying to extend the play. Oh, is Keon Coleman there? Oh, he's Oh, no, we sat him down for two games. Oh, is Jalen Wilde there? Oh, no, we didn't trade for him. We didn't. You think that's what he's thinking of? No worries, everybody.

Where's Matt Collins? Is there? Oh, no, yeah. Oh, where's Matt Collins? He was great against the Chiefs. Oh, we traded, we let him go for no reason. Gabe Davis, Gabe Davis was one great against the Chiefs. Matt Collins, Matt Collins is great against the Chiefs.

He scored touchdown. Showed up in an animal out. Oh, yeah. Yeah, go ahead. Fine, so, so now he's looking around the field, trying to make things happen. Guess what? Doing too much.

Most giveaway since the start of October. Well, I don't count Sam Donald's because four of them are just in one game. I also lose. Oh, God. But Josh Allen has been spreading the thing around. You're right there with Tua. All we do is talk about Tua's interceptions. All we do is talk.

We haven't talked. We literally haven't talked about Tua at all this year. You know why? Because he gives him all the way too much. Doesn't even make rid of one. All right. So listen, so you are right to a degree that they're writing on reputation. But in the defense of the committee, that is because they are reminding us lately of the scariest

bills teams, which are teams where Josh will turn the ball over. That is true. But right now, here's what they have. They have the best running attack in football. You just said you like running the ball in the playoffs. They have the best running attack in football paired with what, unless Patrick makes it, will be clearly the most proven. and arguably, I don't know, saying arguably, deference to Drake May,

the best quarterback on his side of the bracket in the playoffs, and a defense that you're right is very bad at one thing and very good at another. But if you think the Patriots are the biggest threat, what's the only thing the Patriots aren't good at offensive? What do we do against the bill? What's the only thing the Patriots aren't good at? I don't think we're good at everything. I think it's a play call Josh McDaniel's play calling decision.

We're not good at running the ball. We're 11 and 2. We ran for almost, I think we ran for 150 some odd. Okay, well, listen, I can't, I'm not going to be able to combat the argument of the stuff we're not good at. It's because we don't want to be. Well, we're 11 and 2. No, I'm just saying there's decisions being made where it's like, I don't think we have to run the ball that much. Flip side to that is typically a team that's been winning.

Right. I mean, like they, I mean, how about. Okay, maybe we should be undefeated. No, I, that again. I'm saying we're, we won 10 straight games to be like, you guys are bad at this. I disagree with. I understand that for some reason at this moment, it's very hard to say there's anything that the Patriots aren't perfect at. The point I am making is this.

If the team, the bills, if the best team in the conference were the Colts, I think I would be very concerned about having the worst run defense. If the best team in the conference offense is powered by the MVP quarterback, then maybe I would prefer to have the best past defense. That's the argument. Now, if the answer is we actually also could have the MVP running back, but we're saving that for the playoffs, then so be it. But I just think that is, I think the bills, the bills reminding me of old great bills teams is a good thing. I think it's like Jamie Fox.

It's like, he's great actor. He's not, you know, a very good singer. It's like, no, I could sing too. I'm just doing a movie right now where I don't sing. Yeah, I understand that. Want me to start singing? I'll be excellent. And explain the yards per carry stuff, buddy.

That doesn't work that. Saturday for the first time in conference history. number one and number two collide in the Big Ten title game. Heisman front runners collide in the Big Ten title game. Julian Sand, number one Ohio State, Fernando Mendoza, number two, Indiana. Coverage begins Saturday, 6.30 Eastern on Fox on the call. And with us here now is Joel Klat. Joel, welcome back.

Thank you, as always for making time out of your day. And again, I love the plant questions for you. Normal Big Ten championship game is for the Big Ten. Here we've got the championship. We've got seating. We've got the Heisman. We've got the undefeated seasons. We've got how big of a game is this in Indiana football history?

How am I supposed to wrap my head around all of these priorities? How are you looking at the storylines of this game? Oh, man. I can't wait. I have never called a one versus two games. So I'm very excited about this opportunity. And you're right. It's not just a Big Ten championship game,

although that alone would be big. Remember, none of these players for Ohio State have actually won a Big Ten championship. As successful as they've been, they didn't win it a year ago. They haven't won it since 2020 in the COVID year. So it's big for them. And then Indiana, this is an obvious one. This is the biggest game in the history of their program, period, point blank.

And, you know, they've got a chance to not only win the conference title, not only lock up the number one seed in the college football playoff, but also possibly win a Heisman trophy. And so for that program, this game and the enormity of it cannot be overstated. I can't wait for the environment. Plus it's, what, 50 miles from Bloomington, you know, a little bit more than that, maybe 64 miles from Bloomington. So it's going to be an incredible environment. I think there's going to be a ton of energy.

And listen, like I said, I'm fired up about it. And by the way, these two teams, I should say, definitely the best, most complete teams in college football. Won't shock me, guys, if this is the first of two meetings. meetings. Oh, wow. Wow. Well, last week, obviously, Ohio State beat Michigan. I want to know, could that game do you expect it to have any type of emotional effect on Ohio State in this game, whether it's positive we just beat Michigan for the first time in four or five years or negative in that?

I mean, you know this. Some fans in Columbus think that's bigger than like the national championship. So could there be a letdown on the Buckeyes part? I mean, that's always a possibility. They also haven't had as much rest down the stretch as Indiana has had. Indiana had a buy week right before they played Purdue. So Indiana is a more rested team. And I think, and all due respect to Ohio State, probably a more focused team.

Brian Hartline, the offensive coordinator, Ohio State, he just got the South Florida job. So there's a little distraction there. They just come off beating Michigan after losing those four. So there's no doubt there's going to be a little bit of a downer now. Here's the difference, though. is that every single week, since week one, when I covered them against Texas, guys, the number one way that Ryan Day describes this group of kids is business-like. And every time I've seen them, they've been business-like.

They've had the same approach. It's felt the same on the field before the game against Texas, Illinois, Rutgers, and Michigan. So it didn't matter the enormity of the situation. There was this almost professionalism that was exuded by this team, namely their quarterback Julian San. And so I would expect them to be ready to go, but there's no doubt that they're the lesser of the rested version in this game. And they could be a little bit distracted with what's going on with their coaching staff.

Well, you mentioned the assistant coach from Ohio State moving on. Let's go to moving on coaches and talk Lane Kiff. So what do you think about this whole situation with him leaving Ole Miss to go to LSU? I mean, there's so many broken parts to this thing, you know, and that doesn't exempt him from a selfish decision. because it was. Now, I'm not begrudging him that opportunity. If he thinks that's better for him and his future and his family, then more power to him. And this is, you know, the pickle that he finds himself in with our broken calendar and college football. Can you imagine just for a moment in the NFL if we were competing not only at the end of the regular season, but into the postseason in the NFL playoffs while trying to build rosters and sign free agents and draft people and hiring coaches and everything. So obviously the calendar in college football is broken, but that's not an excuse for Lane.

The problem in this situation is that Ole Miss is trying to look out for their future. So they say, hey, Lane, no, you can't coach the playoff because no one's going to be looking over our team and our program during roster building time in the calendar with the early signing date and the transfer portal. Lane is looking after his future and he's saying, well, listen, I think LSU is a better opportunity for me because they're going to invest more into the roster and I think I can recruit high school players a little bit better at LSU. Both of those, by the way, are not crazy positions,

and I actually probably agree with both of those. Here's the issue. Nobody is looking after the players who are narrowly focused about this playoff. All they want to do is a chance to win these games in front of them and go and compete for and win a national championship, and this is making it harder on them. That's why it's a selfish decision.

You wait all year, you build yourself all year, your coach asks you to commit to something larger than yourself, and then he bails. So do I love it? No, but do I understand it? Obviously. Obviously, I know what's going on. So, Joel, but do you, if you were, if Lane asked you for advice, would you have told him to, like, forget the lawyer.

So that's what I wanted to get, like, it feels to me, everyone talks about how LSU is such a better job. And it has more resources. I don't know if it is. Right. So that's what I wanted to get into. So why would you have told him to stay other than do right by the player? Set that aside just for him personally? Well, in the modern college football, I think it's very different than what we know of from the past,

where you have to be at a small number of schools in order to compete for a championship. What we're actually seeing now is that you can build yourself into a top end contender and win at the top end of college football with things like Kurt Signetti at Indiana, Joey McGuire at Texas Tech, and Lane at Old Miss. I think he's proving this out. And what it takes is investment, which Ole Miss has had. They've invested into the transfer portal heavily. He's done a marvelous job of that. And then it also takes alignment, alignment of a coach, an athletic director, and the university administration.

And they have that of Ole Miss. They've got that alignment. LSU does not, guys. LSU is, I mean, I don't want to overstate it, but it's a bit of a dumpster fire, right? I mean, the governor is involved. And now the interim AD gets the long-term AD job, but I heard there was jockeying for position there and there's a lot of political things. The governor says, we're never going to give a contract like Brian Kelly had. Then Lane Giffin gets a contract for $91 million with no offset and no

mitigation. So it's like, well, who's really in charge and who can pull the strings? So that would be my argument is that if he wants to win a national championship, he has that opportunity at Ole Miss right now in front of him. And is it easier at LSU? Maybe. But only if there's alignment. You can't just throw money at problems and feel like those problems are going to go away. Those are structural and they need to fix those before they're going to have success on the field. All right, Joel, I really hope we agree on this because I'm oddly passionate about this. I just heard you guys arguing about the Patriots run game, which is non-existent.

They won't do anything in the playoffs. Thank you, Joe. Don't ask Kevin Wilde. Don't ask Kevin Wilde. Joel, you know, sidebar question. In all your years on the football team, was there ever? something you guys weren't good at because you decided you just didn't want to be? Like, it's like, we could be good at it, but we just don't want to.

We haven't. We have a problem. It's not a bad. Look at it. He's so mad. We're not having any interest. All right. Let's stay on topic, though.

Notre Dame, Miami, if there's one spot for them, it has to go to Miami. And I know that. Yeah, they're directly compared. Because they played. Do you agree with me that it's as simple. is that? Yes. Let me ask you a question. Every tiebreaker in any sport is head to head. Known to man on the face of the planet, what is the first criteria in the tiebreaker? Head to head. Yeah. So what are we doing? And yes, at some point, they're going to be compared

directly. Here's why Notre Dame is in a pickle. And actually, I would bet on Notre Dame missing the playoffs, even though they're not going to play another game and Miami is not going to play another game. The canary in the coal mine right now is BYU. They're protecting Notre Dame from a direct comparison with Miami. But BYU is going to move because they play another game. They're going to either pass Notre Dame and knock them out if they beat Texas Tech in the Big 12 championship game, or they will lose and probably fall behind Miami, thus putting Miami and Notre Dame right next to each other. And then the committee will have no other option.

I also believe that there's a little bit, not that this is sinister, But I think that there's a little bit of protection to the ACC because there's a situation out there where if Duke were to win the ACC, the ACC would just be on the outside of the playoff. And their only hope would be an at-large spot for Miami. So I think that the committee is giving themselves a buffer by moving Notre Dame, excuse me, down to 10

and Alabama passing them for no reason after beating a bad five and seven Auburn team. But all of a sudden they switch spots. Why? So they get one spot closer to my. Miami, and then BYU will play this out, and then the committee will be like, well, it was out of our hands. All of a sudden, they're next to each other. Look at that. And then they can put Miami in. So I think that either BYU or Miami is going to be in the playoff. And I do think Notre Dame is going to miss out. All right, Joel, before we let you go, we're listening to Ben Rathlisberg's podcast.

And you were talking about it. To Ben's, to Ben's? Yeah. Only if he would tell me that they wanted to, they could run Jerome Bettis, but why do it? We don't have any interview. Go ahead. So anyways, Big Ben is talking about

maybe like a fresh start in Pittsburgh and he was just kicking around Mike Tomlin to Penn State, which seemed ridiculous. And at the same time, I was like, blah, something.

What were your thoughts on that? What's going on? Mike Tomlin want to get into a business where he's got to sign recruits on a Wednesday, potentially playing a game on Saturday like Ryan Day is this week, and then he's got a transfer portal.

I don't see that happening. though I think that would be great. Like I think that would be great. Here's where I think Penn State is at. Let me give you kind of, I'll update you on what I think is going on at Penn State. Penn State tried to get Kalani Sataki and the crumble cookie guy that's a BYU guy was like, no, I'm selling way too many cookies to let Kalani Sataki walk out the door. So it's probably cookies for everybody in Provo, baby. You know, that's what we're doing. So Kalani Sataki is going to stay there. I believe that they're targeting Brian Dayball or Jeff Brum, Jeff Brom at Louisville. And then the fact that they have not hired a coach,

and we're at early signing day. Today, today, we are signing recruits. And Penn State is getting crushed in recruiting right now because they're losing all of their commitments because they don't have a coach. Why would Penn State not have hired a coach? I think, guys, and this is not, I don't know this for sure.

This is speculation, but I think, I've been around this for a long time. I think that they're targeting a guy that's coaching Saturday. And that's the only explanation for not having hired somebody right now. And so there are three names of guys that are not either signing long-term extensions or haven't gotten new jobs or would not leave. And here are the three names.

Tony Elliott, Virginia, Manny Diaz, Duke, Kalan DeBoer, Alabama. What? Kalan DeBoar, Alabama. Then what happens to Bama? Lane Kippin goes there because that's the job. Like, you know what? Lane Kippin activates the buyout and goes there.

That's the job you wanted for the McGinnon. What do you mean? You were so committed to us. All right, Dusty's telling us to go. That's a bomb. That's great. That was excellent. All right, big one.

Chipship game. Indiana Ohio State. Yeah, I know. You get 30 minutes with Coward. You get nine and a half with us. I don't know what the hell's going on. There's three of you. We didn't even get into the Russian game of the Patriots.

The best game in the NFL. He's a Broncos guy. Don't you know that? I am a Broncos guy. They're about to be the one C. He's in Denver. And guess what? Both of those teams,

they go up against Josh Allen. Who are you going to take? Josh Allen in the playoffs. Wilde hates this so much. Joel, they played head to head. We played head at that already. In the regular season. There you go, exactly. In the regular season.

Thank you, Joel. Josh Allen said this from Super Bowl trophies I don't know about? Thank you, Joel. Big Ten championship game. Check it out with Joel Clat 630 on Saturday. Thank you, Joel. More first things first. That was great.

He's great. Thank you, Joel. Thank you, man. Excellent job. Well, listen, listen, I always just try to mix it up. No, that's not. That's perfect. That was great.

As long as you're, you know, agreeing with what I said. That's perfect. That's right. I've been on with Nick enough. It's just like stay in his lane and everything goes well. Just keep you up to talk to her. Boys, yeah, boys, have a great day. You too.

Take care. Have a great game. Great time to be a soccer fan. Friday, the FIFA World Cup final draw is going to be at 1130 AM Eastern on Fox. And then Saturday, messy and inner Miami. I'm going, I've decided to become an inner Miami. Miami guy. Shocker. Well, I'm just saying. Square off against Vancouver. MLS Cup at 2.30 p.m. Eastern, also on Fox. Shador and the Browns. Welcome back. Hosting number one pick Cam Ward and the Titans. Now, get this, Greg. Cam Ward drafted number one, obviously. Shadour drafted number 144. What would Shador outplaying Cam Ward mean to you? To me, from a from a player standpoint, when you enter into the draft, you guys know this, I've shared this story before. Like most players don't have the

luxury of going number one. So there's going to be players that potentially are drafted before you. You know who's drafted in front of you. And if you feel like you are a better player than them, you really set out to prove that not only to that individual, but to all those teams that drafted those players ahead of you. That's what Chedura is going to be going up against this week. Now, Cam is solidified, regardless of how he plays. But for Shadur, not only is he going to try to outperform Cam to prove a point that he's a better player and that he should have been taken higher and that the Tennessee Titans got it wrong, if you will, but he also has to prove to even his own team, his own fan base, that, you know what,

I'm a work in progress, but I'm better than a lot of these guys if you would have given. giving me time. So I think as Chardur continues to approach this season, specifically this game, you can't allow what we all tend to do immediately is, I'm better than this guy, I got to go out there and prove it. Keep the main thing, the main thing. And that is trying to manage this offense, continue to execute, progress as a player, but you better believe somewhere in the frontal lobe, near frontal lobe, he's going to be thinking, I got to prove a point to show them that I'm better than Cam. And look, in fairness, we have to remember that Shadour is facing a much lesser defense than

Cam. Cam is going up against Miles Garrett and all of that. But Cam does have the benefit of having a coaching staff and an organization that fully believes in him that has catered the game playing to fit him. And he's been starting for essentially a whole season now. Where Shadur, we know it's his third start. he's had a rocky road there so maybe it evens out

but if Chadour outplay if Chadour looks better than Cam whatever that is numbers just the way he manages things some of the balls he throws then I think that would to me that should make the Browns Nick

take him seriously as potentially our franchise quarterback I mean he's still got many games to play and look like all rookies he's going to look bad in some games He might look good Sunday and then bad his next game. They shouldn't let that rock him if he goes out there and looks better than Cam Ward. You got to say, okay, maybe this is our guy.

Let's let him play the rest of the season. Really try to cater the offense to fit what he does best. And then, you know, maybe you've got your guy. So I think it will be incredibly alarming if Shador does not have a better statistical game than Cam Ward. Oh. Because, again, we don't talk a lot about the Titans. We don't. If you haven't been watching, Cam Ward this season, even by rookie quarterback standards, is struggling.

His numbers are as follows. He's played. Guys, he's thrown seven touchdown passes. He's ran in for one, so he has eight. Those are his numbers on the year. So that's against every day. So do you think he, I don't know I interrupt you, but you think he's, you think he's, is not going to be good?

No, I think the Titans have the, I think the Titans have the least collected talent on any NFL team I've seen in a decade. And they fired their coach. And, you know, you're talking about the coaching staff, caterings to them. Well, the coaches, it's Mike McCoy.

So I just don't think you can judge Cam Ward this year. But my point is, those are his average numbers. And now you're running up against Miles Garrett and this Brown's defense. So I expect Cam Ward to have a disastrous game. like through and so and Shador has the benefit of going up against Jeff Simmons and 10 of his buddies

and so I just I will not look at it as as much of a wow look at what he did I would be really surprised if Cam Ward looks anything other than really bad this weekend and I think Shador should look fine because it's his weakest defense he's played all year

I'm from New York. There it is. There we go. Sorry, Wild said something wildly offensive right before we got on the air. Oh. Sorry. Not wild. This is talking about your Kansas City tie.

Yeah. It's only offensive to me. Not offensive at bars. Yeah. That's not just a meat store. Let's just say that. First thing's first overtime. Today, we're making stats cool yet again.

At what point. Is that job done, Danny? Like where stats are officially cool, so we can't say we're making stats cool, because they're already cool. When is a superhero's job done? That's never really great. Are the bills about to end the bangle season? Meanwhile, Cole Kometh joining the show to talk about the number one-seated Chicago Bears.

But right now, we're talking about tomorrow's game. Cowboys at Lions tomorrow night. Cowboys riding a three-game winning streak. Here's Brian Chottonheimer. Take a listen. When you're talking 17 games before the playoff start, I think you have to take each day and each week by themselves. Our best ability to perform well and win games is based on what we do and how we perform and how we execute, not what the opponent does. And we play really good opponents every week.

But I just think it's an important part of the process. And then ultimately, when we get to a Super Bowl, it's going to be no different. Danny are giving the Cowboys a chance to catch the Philadelphia Eagles. No. No. No chance. No chance. I think what Dallas is doing is really impressive and it's a little too late.

Not to just be totally beholden to the odds makers, but the Eagles are minus 900 to win the NFC. They're a nine to-NFC East. NFC East. They're a nine-to-one favorite to win the division. The side by sides of the remaining schedule, it's very hard for me to see either thing needing. You would need Dallas to win out and Philly to go three and two. Or it to be 11, 5, and 1 for Dallas and 11 and 6 for Philly. Or sure, you could have Philly having a losing record there.

But I think that is way overstating the problems on Philadelphia. Like, you guys are talking a lot about the supernatural funk. And I get it. you guys were a show on TV when the supernatural funk happened, and sure, there's a lot of the same characters that are involved. But this team is the defending champion. This team has an impressive resume this season. So did that team.

That team was the defending NFC champion that was 10 and 1. Resumé, including beating the Chiefs, like this team has beaten the Chiefs and some other really, I'm not picking out the Chiefs because I remember the game, some other really good games that season. But we're, you're two games in, right? It's a two-game losing streak right now for Philly against Dallas, who's playing as well as basically any team in football and the one seat in the NFC.

And that's all of a sudden like a doomsday scenario. These are not embarrassing losses for Philly. The vibes are bad. We're in complete agreement on that. Their offense is underachieving. They're the most expensive offense in football and their 24th in yards and 19th in score. and offense is underachieving.

We agree with that. But this Eagles team is not bad. Not a bad team. It's definitively not a bad team. But where I disagree with you is I'm not, to me, the warning signs did not start in the second half against Dallas, because even that Dallas game, they're up 21-0. The warning signs started way before that. Now, I don't know if we can throw up the Eagles schedule or not, but if you remember

the games leading into it, that Green Bay game was 10. We were like, what is going on with the offense? Was the lion 16 to 10? It was 16 to 7. 16 to 7. 16 to 9. So the offense, you're right. They're in the, you know, in the, you know, but 20-ish in scoring and yards.

They also have more three and outsane team in the league. The passing offense to me feels bordering on broken. And Seekwon has been one of the least effective running backs in the NFL. this season. So that's why to me, I think the Vegas odds are way off. I am not saying it is better than a 50% chance it happens, but giving them any chance to me, it's like a one and four shot that Philadelphia collapses. Danny, you don't buy like, and I know we can split it any way we want, but like all a two game losing streak would if I also say like four and four in their last eight, like, oh, four and four, but like you can be like, well actually five and four

than last night. I know it's strange, but if you start to look at it as sort of a festering issue that has finally come to the... Yeah, but the teams that they have down the stretch, I still think that they are considerably better then. Like, I don't think they're going to lose

one of them as Peyton Manning quarterback. I don't know. That's a game they could lose, but they are favored by three. They'll be favored in four of their last five. Yes. And you say they need to lose... Three of them. Three of those games. So they need to lose multiple games in which they are favored down the stretch. Like their last two.

Okay, Nick, but you were saying it was a close win over Detroit or it was a close win over Philly when last year well, that's just, they just know how to win. The Chiefs are the champs and they just know how to win those close games. The Eagles are the champs that have won some close games. And then Gobru. The Chiefs had last year

a basis of six consecutive years of excellence. The Eagles have, we went to the Super Bowl, then we looked really good and fell apart entirely. We went to the Super Bowl and then we looked really good and are teetering. That's where we are in the timeline. So that to me, and there is so much more, the Chiefs last was like, what's wrong with the Chiefs? And inside, they're celebrating after a blocked field goal win. They're making a documentary about a potential three-pe.

They felt good. Eagles on the inside seem as not at all as confident, if you will, that everything is okay as Kansas City did last year? Yeah, I'm with Danny. Now, I'm not saying zero chance. I think it's very, very slim. I mean, I do think we over screw knives. And look, in fact, they bring it on themselves.

If the Eagles didn't have all this foolishness coming out of the locker room with A.J. Brown and all that stuff, we probably never would have started looking at every single game and, you know, oh, the offense, this goes. Look, I get 10, 7 against Green Bay 10 points. That's all you scored. That's a great win, though. That's Green Bay. You held them to seven points.

Detroit. So you only scored 16? Still a great one. Like, they, you said it. Detroit, Green Bay, Kansas City, Tampa Bay and the L.A. Rams, who everybody feels is the best team in the league. That was this. Like, I do think, Danny,

Here's where I probably differ with you. If they lose to the Chargers, then I think they could fall into that supernatural funk again. Three straight losses. Dallas is right on your tail. Then I think they could plummet. But right now, I'm not ready to say that. The only problem with that is Dallas is an underdog in Detroit.

Dallas can lose this game too. Dallas absolutely can lose this game. And I think you're picking them too, right? I think Dallas is going to, my belief is I think Dallas is going to go four and one down the stretch. Do you think Dallas is going to catch them? Like I said, right now if you offered me an even money bet on it, I would say no. But if you offered like the Vegas odds, absolutely, and right around, I'd say about a one and four chance. So Dallas to me has a couple games.

I would be shocked if they lost. I would be shocked if Dallas lost to, they have men. Minnesota. Yeah. And I'd be shocked if they lost, if it's meaningful, week 18 to whatever's left of the Giants at that point. They're probably trying to lose that. Right, the Giants.

And so I would be shocked if they lost those games. So for me, the question is, can the Cowboys go two and one against Detroit, the Chargers in Washington to get to that 4 and 1? I think 5 and 0 is unrealistic. Eight straight wins, I think is unrealistic. So to me, four and one is reasonable. Philadelphia, like, and this is the other reason I push back against the Kansas Comps from last year.

Kansas City last year in the regular season, it was ugly, it was weird. They lost once. We are three quarters of the way through the regular season. Philadelphia has lost four times. So it's the idea that they are, yeah, listen, they play ugly, but they always win. No, they don't.

I think it's weird, Danny, and again, I'm the vibes guy, which is kind of silly, but I do think there's some validity to it. And I do think there's some validity to Ben Johnson, changing the culture, right? Vibes are silly, but culture is meaningful. So, like, wow, Ben Johnson has a great culture there, and they really believe each other and they're supporting each other. So if you think that is great, and you see the vibes or culture in the Eagles locker room that seems like the opposite of the Bears, and they played, and it really went that way, I'm surprised that you don't give as much validity to the bad vibes in Philadelphia. I agree that the vibes are bad, and I also think that last year we watched A.J. Brown read a book on the sideline, and they won a Super Bowl.

Last year, they never lost. Last year they started two and two and the vibes were bad. They never lost. Four days ago, Chicago ran for 300 yards on them. Too many. The week before that, they blew the first 21 point lead the team has given up this century.

Like we have moved past the, it's ugly and it's weird, but they win to the, we have lost an embarrassing fashion in back-to-back games. That's now where we're at. with Philadelphia. So, and Dallas, on the other hand, has the exact opposite feeling. It's like, oh, we played the last two Super Bowl champions. And in comeback fashion, games we were down in the fourth quarter against both of them,

one on both. They've also lost Arizona and Carolina. And, yes, pre-trade deadline. I understand. But Dallas is not some juggernaut. I don't think Dallas is juggernaut, but I, I, what do you think they're going to go down the stretch? Four and one?

Yeah, three and two, four and one. Okay. If they go four and one, if they go four and one, then I think going into week 18, Philadelphia has to win that game to win the division. All right, great news, everybody. You like cool stuff? William Verde.

Bears number one seat in the NFC. Ben Johnson, you know, said, we're winning in spite of our passing game, not because of it. None of us are pleased with that right now. Whoops, clarified that. Turns out on Caleb, he continues to get better each week, and I couldn't be more pleased with how he played.

Well, that's great. But that's the problem with editorializing, And that's why we have cool stuff like packed stats. You don't have to, you know, edit, yeah. The numbers speak for themselves. Exactly. This is why it's cool. I brought my briefcase with all my cool stats.

I'm glad you mentioned Ben Johnson. Yes, Cole Komet will be on the show in just over 10 minutes or so. We go to number one. And Wilds, I know you like Mike Rable. But Ben Johnson should be the coach of the year. Here's the thing. Look back to. Explosive plays.

Okay, hold on. This was the did. Detroit Lions last season. Remember these numbers. 154 rushing yards per game, 109 explosive plays second in the NFL. This is the Detroit Lions at this point last season. Show me the Bears through 13 weeks.

154 yards rushing and 102 explosive plays, the most in the NFL. It is a remarkable one-year transformation. I don't know how that graphic got in there with John Johnson's a shirt off. It might have been a mistake. It might have been intentional. It might be my screen paper.

I had to play in Pinkyton. You guys can't fit in the same jacket. Jack, Jack, take it seriously. But honestly, the fact that he got Detroit's offense to Chicago with Caleb not playing like Jared Gough in one year is remarkable. He should be the coach of the year. Do you think it's outrageous? Like, do you think Grable just has it sewn up?

I have a mean take. I don't want to say it. Wow. You want to trade seats so you can pretend your team? Yeah. He called me a liar from this seat yesterday. I didn't say anything you want. Sometimes I feel like Coach of the Year is a little bit of a diss.

Oh, yeah. It's like a little, it's not like Coach of the year, Sean McVeigh, Coach of the year, Andy Reed. It's like, good for you. For this team, oh my God, I can't believe it. Oh, with this quarterback can't. So do you not want it?

I still want it, but it is a little bit of a decent. No, I think personally it's variable. I mean, we'll see how the rest of the season goes, but that team won four games last year. So here's the favorite. I know he's brought a lot of new players in. I wouldn't have it. Listen, I think there are actually a handful of deserving candidates.

I think Mike McDonald's in Seattle. I know Bruce not as yet in Seattle. They won 10 last year. They are, you know, that's a diss award again. Yeah, but I think he's a legitimate candidate. The Shanahan is again, like almost too good of a coach to be allowed to win the award. Here is where I think this, I didn't know that that the last. year's Lions offense with Jemir Gibbs and all those weapons is now this year's Bears

offense. That is a great stat. Thanks, buddy. Here's the other piece of it. There are guys, you're so kind. Two tried and true ways to snap turn a team round. One is quarterback take a massive leap. Yeah. And the other is what the Bears are done. And that to me is more coach-related. Because Caleb, eliminating the sacks has been huge. And I do think he is considerably better in the last year. But I and I give Vrabel some of the credit for Drake May and he picked

Josh McDaniel and all of it. But a lot of the Patriots turnaround is their second year quarterback is playing like an MVP. The Bears, to me, it's more coaching related. And so that to me is a legit. That's a cool stat I think. Thanks. Josh McDaniels can win assistant of the year.

I think he deserves that. And Ben Johnson can win often of assistant. Well, there's There's not a, I think it's just one. Robert Salam, man. Wow, Bruce trying to give the Niners all these awards. I do. I get it, though. They're carrying, purdy, like if it's on tough lift.

That is a great. You guys are another cool stat? Yeah, this one's even cooler. All right. Do they go and they get cooler as it goes on? Actually, not this week. Oh, I think I led with my cool stuff. They're all equally cool.

Stay tuned. All right. The Bears defense. Well, it's going to take. Yeah, no, this is Jordan Lovstat. going to take away a win from the Packers. Here's the thing. Jordan Love, Nick, you said it before the year. Most significant player in the NFL because they've got a Super Bowl caliber team.

When he doesn't turn the ball over, they're undefeated. When Jordan Love has one measly turnover, they are one three and one. This week, they are playing the team that leads the NFL in takeaways. Jordan Love is coming off the only game in his career where he had four touchdowns with no turnovers associated with it. Who's got the least turnovers in the league, you know? Probably you guys. The Packers.

Oh, yeah, yes, for giveaways. That is true. Yeah, the most. Jordan loves, yeah, with three interceptions. But when he does it, they play a lot of close games. When he does it, they lose. But he won three and one. So that, listen, I think that.

Last school. The, what's you say? Less cool. Well, it was a big believer in that turnover is the worst thing you can do, which is probably true. It is, but I think it's, I don't like that. I actually think it's, I don't love leading the, league and take away.

He's not going to stay that. You think it's not sustainable. Yeah, it's just so the ball bounced, you know. Right. Okay, yeah, that's fine. Less so about the bear's part and more so about the Packers part. Brew, you agree with my, at this point, my preseason take that he's the most intriguing player in the league this season.

Like the player whose variance will impact who does or doesn't win the Super Bowl more than just about anybody. I think he's up there. I think now who's become interested in is Drake May. Just because can he continue to play this way in the playoffs? But, yeah, but I mean, he's up there for sure. With Drake, I think it's pretty clear. He has to be excellent for them to have any chance to win the Super Bowl.

I think for Jordan, it's a little different in that I think he has to avoid disaster. Because I think they can just lean on, not for four playoff games, but for, they might be, able to win a playoff game where Jordan Love throws for 125 yards. Yeah. And so I think that I'd be very interested if the Bears can turn them over to me. Okay, I think we need another cool stat. You want one more? Yeah, this is a little bit cooler if you have. I don't know how many you have in there. I have one more. Okay. I think it's pretty cool if you don't mind. Yeah, I do say so myself. Everyone's going to be talking bills and bangles about the quarterbacks. Joe Burrow, Josh Allen. Definitely. I hope you are too. I'm not. I'm not.

Okay. It's actually going to come down to the rush defense, the coolest thing in the NFL. The Bengals, 31st ranked rush defense. The Bills, the 30th ranked rush defense. Can either of them stand up? I think someone earlier called this the old double must win. The Bengals have rushed for 120 or more yards and for their last six games. That coincides with when Joe Flacco took over.

So if the Bengals get competent quarterback play, they also are able to run the ball. The bill is, of course, the number one running team in the end. NFL. So these are two good running teams going up against two of the three worst rush defenses in the league. Which one do you trust more? I mean, this to me is a disaster stat for Sensing because I think the Bills have a legitimate great running attack. I think the Bengals running attacks fine. And so I like this, I didn't, I knew the Bills had a bad run defense because it's wild talks about it at every conversation on or off the air. The bank. I kind of thought it was right. We just knew the Bengals kind of had an overall bad defense. I

I didn't know it was specifically the run. Do they bro? The Bengals? Yeah. Do they have a bad defense against a good running team? You tell me. Well, the Ravens decided not to run. Why?

Stonewall Cincinnati. No, that's. Oh, my gosh. No way. Steel curtain. You really believe? No. I said that and you guys laughed me off the stage.

Yes. He's still upset that we didn't. That was, this. He said, you're in trouble, Brew. Brew. I got to tell you. As I was coming down the stairs. for a fun hang

you're in trouble. I got to say what? The Bengals, they shut down at defense. I told you. I did. He wouldn't have done that when the Patriots were terrible.

I'm telling you, I am telling you, the Wednesday before Thanksgiving show, the long tale of that, how it has impacted Wilde's opinions of all of us and his takes. He was like, I was disrespectful on takes

I was proven correct on, And I didn't get my just due. I was no one came on TV the next day because we were off and said Wiles was right. That's what's been festering. And then Monday it got lost in the fog of war. It was festering. You're mad all week. All week and you brought it back, Park God.

It's a cool step. I was like, I knew there's no data for it. I pulled the Sports Illustrated headline. And he's like, you just pull the Sports Illustrated headline. That's just a, I said, I know, but someone agrees with me. It was the Bengals defense. And they're better.

And I go, they're like, get out of here. Yeah. They're like, pack your stuff up and your shared office and believe it.

By the way, I said they're good. I still don't think. They're not good. I don't think they're good. Yeah, they're not good. I don't think that the Bengals defense

all of a sudden is trying to corner. Why didn't Derek Henry and Lamar Jackson do anything against them? Because the Ravens are broken. You can't run them all? They could. They wouldn't let them. Why? They had,

were they at, for 60? He ran for a 30-yard touchdown. Immediately. And then the rapist coaches said, you know what? You know what? They plugged that hole. This guy.

I'm telling you. It's been a week now. Are we okay about last week? You're still mad about stuff from five years ago. What? You're mad about saying. That's really inside. He's mad about pandemics.

We'll see. I told you. Coming up next. Cole Comette joins the show to talk about the number one-seeded Chicago Bears. That's next on first things for overtime. I know you guys are hungry for more, right? It's it. Let me tell you something.

The city of Chicago is hungry, too. Yeah. I absolutely love it. Joining us now on the O.T. A guy I know loves it as well. Caught a touchdown in that game. Talking to this guy, knowing him for years, tight end for the Chicago Bears. Cole Commet.

Cole, thank you very much for joining the show. I'm worried about Ben, though. If he's taken his shirt off for a regular season win over Philly, where does he go from here? I don't know what the next level is after he goes shirts off. Yeah, dude, I'm just as curious as you are, man. So I guess we'll have to see where it goes. Thanks for having me, Danny, obviously.

But I can't believe I can't believe we're working with Greg here, especially on Packer Week. This is kind of nuts to me. So, no, I'm just messing with Greg. fan of yours and thanks for having me on the show. This is great. I'm glad you addressed the elephant in the room because I was going to ask, how does it feel looking at me, someone that you grew up, probably hating. I don't want to speak for you. How does it feel just in this moment right now?

Well, first of all, hate's a strong word. Hate to strong word. I think as you get into the league and you become more aware of what it is, you grow more appreciation for all players. But that being said, yes, as a kid, I did grow up, maybe hating on you a little bit. The Greg Jennings Madden video does, did help your cause a little bit in my household. But no, nonetheless, excited about the game this weekend. And it was always great watching you and the Bears play twice this year. Yeah, so you can speak to this rivalry from a different perspective than a lot of us, even who has played in this rivalry. Like I obviously drafted by the Packers.

Most guys who play in this rivalry are drafted by the team, or just are on the roster, and then they're kind of thrusts into this rivalry. But you, growing up in the area, being a fan from childhood, how different and unique is this rivalry for you? Yeah, well, it's really special. I mean, like I stated earlier, watch this game multiple times a year, and it was always a big deal whenever the Bears were hosting the Packers at Soldier or we went up there up to Lambo.

And it's really a great game to be part of now. And one I definitely don't take for granted. For me personally, my sister's boyfriend, Lucas Van Ness, plays for the backpackers. So there's that family element. And then one of my best friends, Nick, who was in my wedding, is a diehard Packers fan. And I can't even get him to wear my jersey. the only time he's worn it was actually overseas in London when he came to our game last year. But that's beside the point.

But yeah, no, it's a big rivalry here in my family. Got a lot of connections and it's a lot of fun for sure. Had all disappointed in your sister, a little bit of a traitor? I don't know. I'll say it if you won't. I mean, a little bit, right? I guess she's a traitor twice a year. So, I mean, she'll root on for me specifically.

But I don't know where her allegiance truly lies. on Bears Packers game day. Well, I can speak for your sister right now. She's with the good guys. Let's just call it what it is. Take it. Take it easy. Cole, so the shirts off thing is one thing.

But you've been in a bear since 2020, your whole career. You've had three head coaches. This is an offensive transformation. It's night and day from what you guys were last year to what you are now. Can you beyond what we see in press conferences, what is it like? playing for Ben Johnson and what makes him different than other guys that have coached you before? Yeah, man, well, it's been awesome. It's been a great experience so far. I think Ben, he's just so on top of everything. And, you know, he's super detail oriented. Obviously, we've seen the intensity

at times. I'm sure you guys have seen that. And, you know, we feel that every day. But he's also able to have some fun with it, too. And you see that with all the trick plays and all those type of things. So he keeps it fun in that regard. But I think really what stood out to me is just And what's really come on along for us recently here is, is our run game and his passion for the run game and scheming it up and the way he installs it. It's been a lot of fun to be part of. And I think that's what has got a lot of buying from guys across the board on the offense, you know, not just the offensive line and backs, but, you know, that migrates to the tight ends and wide receivers as well. Just just him highlighting and showing the importance of everybody on a given run play. And I think that's why, you know, we've been so successful here the past.

few weeks. Cole, every year when I was in Green Bay, we drafted, we seemingly drafted a receiver. And you have been one of those players that you get the deal. Obviously, you get drafted, they drafted Colston Loveland. You were a focal point in the offense. This year has been different for you. However, you are, you're still impacting the offense in the passing game. But more importantly, you are actually killing it in the.

the running game. Speak to what that's been like, what that adjustment has been like for you because a lot of guys struggle when they're asked to do something that is not as exciting as past catching. Yeah, it was definitely adjustment at first, but I think, you know, credit to Ben and the coaching staff, what they do such a good job of is putting guys in positions that they're best at and doing that consistently throughout the year. And I think I felt that with myself in terms of the situations I've been put in within the run game and in the past game as well. And then you see that across the board with everybody else. But, you know, it's been fun.

And I've been having a lot of fun winning this year and, you know, do whatever I got to do in order for us to get wins and get Ws. And obviously that's, you know, being a big part of the run game. And then, you know, when the ball does come away, going to make a play. So it's been a lot of fun. And I know all the guys across the board, whether it's DJ, Rome, guys who have also been here in the past. then maybe have had a little bit of adjustment as well. They're all bought in as well, and we're all about winning, and I think that's been showing up here recently.

So the running game's been super successful. Ben Johnson's clearly a truth teller. You know, he said you guys have been winning in spite of your passing game, and I watched the full press conference. He wasn't calling out, Caleb. He says, you know, he's just one of 11, and it's about footwork and depth of target on routes and all these sorts of things.

But, like, I guess the follow-up for me on, when he said you guys are winning in spite of your passing game, is like, what's then realistic for the passing game the rest of this year? Is this the type of thing that we got to wait to see the passing game and you guys win because of it next year and you need an off season? Or do you feel like you guys are close? I personally feel like we're close. And I go back to, you know, our run game, the first three, four weeks of the season before the buy.

And we weren't ranked very highly in that regard either. And we got that thing fixed up. And I think what we saw on tape with the run game was that things were there, but we just kind of had to continue to rep it and get on the same page with it. And I think there's something to that with our past game as well. I think you see at times things are open

and whether we don't hit it or guys aren't at the right depth or we need to be better with our timing and getting to our landmark and our spots. Those are all things that kind of play a part in the past game having success. And obviously it's been a few weeks here since we've had a lot of success here in the past game.

But I think you can see on tape where those opportunities are. We just got to go out there and execute on it. And, you know, I know we're working tirelessly here to get that fixed during the course of the week of practice and the, and the practice reps that we do get. Cole, there's so much focus, obviously, on Caleb and you know the history of that position in Chicago. Can you contextualize, like, where he is now versus where he was last year and where you think he ultimately can get to? Yeah, well, obviously everyone sees all the

talent, the arm talent, the ability to move out of the pocket, all those type of things. And he's had that since the moment he walked in the building here. I think from my standpoint, and I don't really keep up, I know you guys have some of the stats on the screen, you know, I don't really look at that too much in terms of dictating how he's playing or whatever. But what I noticed from him more so from last year to this year is his operation within the huddle, getting guys lined up. And I think that's where his biggest growth has been.

and I know it's a huge challenge for these guys coming from college to pro. And, you know, they go from looking at the sideline to a picture of Kermit the Frog and relaying a play that way to now you're in a huddle, getting a play call from Ben Johnson, having it, having delivered to the guys with confidence and in an effective manner and a timely manner, get everybody lined up, recognize the defense and then getting the right play that you gave in the huddle. So there's a lot to it. And I've seen a ton of growth from Caleb in that regard. And that's been really cool to see. Cole, there's nothing that really galvanizes the city of Chicago quite like the Bears. What did you make of a thousand plus people in sub-freezing weather lining up for a free $4 hot dog at the weener circle? I felt like it was a perfect encapsulation of our city.

Yeah, I mean, I'm not surprised at all. I mean, you knew this was what was going to happen. So it seems like everyone was wearing their jackets and came prepared for the line. But, no, it's cool to see. I mean, you know, obviously when when the bears are doing well, I remember. this when I was a kid for the times when, you know, they'd go on win streaks or that or that Super Bowl year. The city's on fire and it's a lot of fun to see the fans having a good time with it. So I was glad Coach Johnson could help feed some feed some people in Chicago this past

week. All right. Well, keep proving them wrong. They were doubting you guys against Philly or an underdog against Green Bay. Beat those Packers, okay? Look, man. Take it down. Welcome back to first things first. Drama in Pittsburgh, a place that we don't normally see it, coming off of a lopsided lost 26 to 7 to the bills. It wasn't just non-competitive on the scoreboard. There were booze in the stands, and they were chanting, fire Tomlin. Never thought you'd see the day in Pittsburgh. Ben Rafflesberger, like many people, has a podcast, footballing with Ben Rafflesberger.

He weighed in. Take a listen. Maybe it's time. Maybe it's a clean house time. Maybe it is. Maybe it's time. And I like Coach Tomlin. I have a lot of respect for Coach Tomlin.

But maybe it's best for him, too. Maybe a fresh start for him is what's best. Here's what you don't do. You don't fire a guy like Coach Tomlin. He's a Hall of Fame coach. He's a respect. What you do is you come to an understanding and agreement. And it's like, hey, listen, I think it's probably best for both of us.

All right, Willie, that's your quarterback talking about your coach. What's your reaction? Yeah, I think we just have to understand this is not how the Steelers operate. They don't jump to the gun and say, hey, man, just because you're going through tough times, we're going to abandon you. The Steelers, I dare to say, laugh at other organizations who are impulsive and when it comes to dealing with a coach who's not having good fortune on their side. This is tough, right? Because I think for Ben and like other alumni that played for the Steelers, we always had to live up to the 70s Steelers, right?

The Steel Curt. There was a standard. I remember watching Franco and Mean Joe Green, those guys walking around the building and talk about what the standard is or what it means to win. And so we kind of went through that building chasing those guys. These current Steelers are chasing us. But the problem is we're not in that building. What's happening right now, the winning culture is no longer in that building. So now it relies on one man to kind of restore that.

And that's Mike Tomlin. Steelers are six and six. They're not four and 17. They're still in the heat of it. They're still kind of thick of it. I would challenge everybody who's passionate about the Steelers. Let's judge this whole journey at the end of the season. Jumping out there right now when they can still beat the Baltimore Orivians,

when the future is still in their hands and things are still ahead of them, allowed them to do their job. Mike Tomlin is a damn good coach. I'm telling you, first and foremost, you're talking about never having a losing season, working through multiple coordinators, really trying to figure himself out after the surges of once Ben Robesburg and retired. It's a lot.

He's been able to handle those storms. This isn't easy because we talked about it before in the show. We were sold the bill of goods that Aaron Rogers was going to kind of be the guy to write the shit. It hasn't happened. We understand that. We also understood the defense was going to be a lot better. that hasn't happened. But this thing isn't over.

So I think I'm more annoyed that everybody's kind of sensitive to the fact that this team is really trying to figure itself out. And there's still five games left. I would love to have this conversation at the end of the season when the season is behind us. That's a luxury that I don't know that you could afford. I mean, it's five straight one and done playoff trips. The fans are chanting fire Tomlin. You would agree it's not looking good. But it's not looking bad.

Like the Jets look bad. Okay, sure. By comparison, everyone looks good. Right. But you're looking at it, you're looking at a division right now that everybody looks bad. They're not, they're not out of it. You know what I mean? So I'm not ready to give up on the season solely because they've suffered losses to teams that are playoff-bound teams.

Yeah, Willie, what I would argue is, but when when you said what the standard is and the standard and you're in the business of winning, and that's not happening when you need to win at its best at the most important time, which is the postseason and you just alluded to those numbers, then it's not cutting it. And I think Ben, and it's tough, anytime you're a former player and you make these comments about an organization that you got drafted into and that you spent a lot of your time in, they expect you to just always kind of go with the flow and go upstream. But he's on, he's right. In what regard? In the regard of you don't just fire him.

If you are to explore this. Well, I'll tell you this right now. Mike Tomlin will have to fire him himself. They're never going to fire Mike Tomlin. And that may be the case. But this is going to be a discussion because they're not winning when it matters most. Like the standard is the standard. What does that mean?

And what does that, forget what does it mean? What does it look like? Because right now, this is a 500 team that is on the brink of they had the division in their grasp. We had an ugly loss of the Bengals in Cincinnati. And they have, they can come. control their own destiny, but it just doesn't feel like the messaging that he has always been able to pierce through in that locker room and then we see it on the field and translation, that's not happening week after week.

So let me ask you guys this. The Bears ended up hiring Ben Johnson, but there was a report that the Bears, they tried to get creative with their coaching search. They wanted to cast a very wide net. And they called the Pittsburgh Steelers and asked if trading Mike Tomlin was an option, because coaches can be traded. and the Steelers shut it down pretty quickly. But it got out that the Bears and at least one other team had reached out to the Steelers.

Mike Tomlin has asked about it. It was revealed then that he has a no trade clause. But coaches have been traded. Great coaches have been traded. Just a couple of them. Sean Peyton in 2023 was traded for a first and a second round pick. The Patriots traded a first, a fourth, and a fifth for Bill Belichick back in 2000. John Gruden was traded for two first and two seconds.

Like if I told you, sometimes it's just best if we part ways. Andy Reed in Philadelphia, we see it across. Bill Walsh used to talk about the rule of 10, 10 years, and then you need a new voice. And things need to change over. I saw it with Theo Epstein and the Chicago Cubs. He was like, you know what? I thought I was going to give you 10. I got out after 9.

It just got a little stale. It was time for us to part ways. If it happened, and I know it would be crazy for it to happen in a division, I understand. that. But if the Ravens said you can have our first round pick, and then Mike Tomlin went to Baltimore, if next year the Ravens had Lamar Jackson and Mike Tomlin, we would think that team would be dangerous. If the Cincinnati Bengals, another team with the quarterback, and I know it's in division, so it would be tough. But the Philadelphia Eagles, if they moved on from Nick Siriani, because the culture is bad in Philadelphia, and you bring in Mike Tomlin, who always wins

and gives you a culture. Because if you give that guy a quarterback, I believe that he can still win. But without a quarterback, he's too good of a coach for you to have too bad of a record to draft a great quarterback. So it feels to me like they're just in this cycle of nine wins. We have to draft Kenny Pickett. Or get a stopgap with Aaron Rogers.

I don't know what the way out is if you just keep doing this. I mean, that's the ultimate struggle. The Steelers are in that makes of being stable but stagnant, right? Yeah. And that's the reality. But we also have to understand Mike Thomas is the floor, right? He is the guy they trust and believing. And it's just not about wins and losses in Pittsburgh.

It's about the culture. It's about being behind the curtain, watching how they kind of construct this roster and how they continue to build this organization up. I also believe that the Steelers really believe that Mike Tomlin is their guy. And it doesn't look like it. And, Gray, you gave all the reasons why there's murky water right now. But they're not going to just hand over a blue blood history. historic organization to anybody.

They held on the Chuck Knoe for 23 years. Totally. You know what I mean? Bill Cowher forever. This is not what they do. So it may look different for everybody else, but the Steelers march to their own drum. This is why I believe eventually they're going to get it, right? It's been hard for other organizations to survive or kind of last one, especially when

their marquee quarterback retires or leave, right? Teams go through these periods. This is just a rough period for the Steelers. I don't think this is a Mike Thomas situation. I think it's a situation where they have to want to get a quarterback who they can I'm leaving for the next five to 10 years and write this ship. I don't know who that quarterback is, but it's wrenchedly going to happen. You just got to go through this tough times.

Well, Ben played a role in to why the Steelers are in this situation, because I believe he overstayed his welcome. Mike Tomlin, whether he had a pardon wanting to get rid of Ben or not. The reason why they're in this situation is not just solely Ben, but him overstaying his welcome and obviously them acquiring other picks to where they would have been a lesser team in some of those years, but they opted to let's build our roster up a little bit and then meet the floor. So this is the one thing I will say.

Mike Tomlin talks about don't blink. What? This is a moment where he better not blink, and I don't think he will. But he's never blinked. I don't believe he will. He could have blinked after Ben left. I totally get that. But this is a situation.

This is a situation. This is a situation where it's a situation where it's never had to playoff. If they are to lose this week, man, these topics, this topic, and particularly, is going to be everywhere. Like, the noise is going to continuously get louder and harder. To me, this is the NFL. You're going to go through periods of like this where you have to pretty much show up and show out, bottom line.

So I don't think he's going to waver. I don't think this team is going to waver. The tape doesn't look good over the last two weeks. Everything's real. But this is where you expect Mike Tom and to show up. And he hasn't given anybody at this desk reason that he won't show up and get this team ready. Okay, but let's go then let's go down that road. Best case scenario, they win the division, right?

That's the best. Win and you win. Win and you're in. But let's then assume that they're not going to make a run because they don't look great right now. They said that in 05. There was a wild card and beat the Denver Broncos went all the way to the Super Bowl. Really? That was 20 years ago, man.

But my point is we can't choose when we want to lean on history and then say, oh, well, that happened way back then. That happened with the Pissburg Steelers. It could happen again. Okay. You have a 41-year-old quarterback who's a four-time AVP. And Air Force gets hot. If Air Force gets hot, it's a different story. Yes, that's a big if.

If is carrying a heavy load in that second. Yes, it is. We'll talk Chief's Dynasty. You guys are going to have to believe. I will. You can believe. Time now for first things last. The Kansas City Chiefs are a paradox.

They are a good team with a mediocre record. In fact, I think they are. better than last year's 15 and 2 team that made it to the Super Bowl. But I also think, and the odds agree, and all signs point to the fact that they are going to miss the playoffs. So what's the case that a pedestrian 6 and 6 team is good? Well, on the offensive side of the ball, the Chiefs are 9th in points and 5th in yards per game. Those would both be Kansas City's best since 2022. Patrick Mahomes is also captaining the second best passing offense in all of football. On the defensive side, they allow 19.3 points per game good for

seventh in the league, and that total is virtually identical to last year's 19.2 points per game allowed. Their point differential is seventh best in the NFL. That means the six-win Chiefs rank better in that normally predictive metric than the 8-win Packers, the 9-win Bears, and the 10-win Broncos. Again, the Chiefs have six wins. To put their plus-73 differential into context against recent Chiefs teams, last year's team, that was 15 and 2, only outscored opponents by 59 points. Simply put, last year's record probably should have been worse, but this year's record should be better than it is. So why hasn't it been? Last year, the Chiefs were an absurd 12-0 in 1-score games. This year, 1 and 6. Other underlying situational data

like 3rd-down defense, a limited number of takeaways and a low-ceiling rushing attack certainly contribute to the problems. But the bones of the team still resemble past AFC and Super Bowl champions, which is why no one would want to play them if they ran the table and made the playoffs. It's also why any talk of the dynasty being over is silly and premature, even if they do miss the playoffs. They should and will enter next season as one of the favorites to win the Super Bowl. That's all I've got. Thank you so much for being with us on First Things First. We're back tomorrow.