Football Daily - 72+ EFL Pod: Andy’s beer ban & Cov back on top

Episode Date: February 18, 2026

Aaron Paul, Middlesbrough loans manager Tommy Smith & Bromley boss Andy Woodman discuss the top stories from the EFL. They react to Coventry going back above Boro at the top of the Championship. How does Michael O’Neill balance his new Blackburn job with trying to get Northern Ireland to the World Cup? Wigan appoint Gary Caldwell to replace Ryan Lowe, and what’s the secret to success for League Two leaders Bromley? Messages and voicenotes always welcome on WhatsApp to 08000 289 369.00:35 Pre-match rituals, 03:25 Andy loving life at top of League Two, 08:40 Andy banned beer on the coach! 11:30 Andy on taking things from Arsenal, 14:15 Coventry go back above Middlesbrough, 19:00 Important to avoid the play-offs! 23:25 Andy reveals his penalty theory… 24:40 How does Michael O’Neill balance Blackburn with Northern Ireland? 27:40 Does it matter if you don’t play ‘sexy’ football? 31:55 Wigan appoint Gary Caldwell to replace Ryan Lowe 34:30 What’s the Bromley secret to success? 37:30 Michael Cheek an old-school throwback5 Live / BBC Sounds commentaries: Wed 1745 Qarabağ v Newcastle, Sat 1500 Aston Villa v Leeds on Sports Extra, Sat 1500 Chelsea v Burnley on Sports Extra, Sat 1730 West Ham v Bournemouth, Sun 1400 Nottingham Forest v Liverpool, Sun 1400 Sunderland v Fulham on Sports Extra 2, Sun 1400 Crystal Palace v Wolves on Sports Extra 3, Sun 1630 Tottenham v Arsenal.

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. If there was a big rent button that would just demolish the internet, I would smash that button with my forehead. From the BBC, this is the interface, the show that explores how tech is rewiring your week and your world. This isn't about quarterly earnings or about tech reviews. It's about what technology is actually doing to your work, your politics, your everyday life. And all the bizarre ways people are using the internet. Listen on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts. 72 Plus, the EFL podcast with Aaron Paul and Joby McEnough.

Hello, everybody. Welcome on to 72 Plus, the EFL pod from Five Lives for No Jovey Mac Enough this week. But it's a Tommy Smith world and we're all just living in it. Great to have you with us, pal. How are we, mate? Everything okay? You're all right. Very good. Join your time down in a big smoke? I certainly am.

It's very busy around here, Raz. It is. Very, very busy. You've got here two and a half, three hours ahead of kickoff? Oh yeah, definitely. A consummate problem. Better be in early, though, isn't it?

Better be an early. I'm not that guy who turns up later. I like to be nice and calm, little coffee, little wander around, you know. Enjoy the sights. It's the equivalent of getting to a stadium early and sort of walking and checking the pitch out, right? Oh, that's it.

That's what I used to do? Yeah. All the time. What do you do when you're walking out and checking the pitch? I've never understood that. I mean, you sort of like, It's a lot of rubbish. Headphones, just the surface.

Yeah, it's not a rubbish. People touching the grass and have a smell of it. It's a lot of rubbish, mate. But no, I do like getting to places earlier. It's my thing. I like being early. I like being comfortable as opposed to rushing around. You know, and you're sweating and you're uncomfortable.

That's not for me that. You're obviously a former, you know, Premier League defender, Huddersfield, Middlesbrough, now Lones Manager. What was your pre-match routine? Well, a big part of it was getting there early. Genuinely it was. I always used to like to get there early, a whole bit of programme.

If we had a three o'clock game, there's always a half-12 game on, so I'd watch a bit of that. I'd just like to be nice and calm. Do you read the program? You flick through it. Flick through it. Ever do the quiz in the back? Yeah, sometimes.

Nice. Sometimes. I just like to be in my own sort of space, nice and calm. I think that was my biggest thing from a pre-match point of view. Again, when I was stressed out, and I used to hate it when you were to away games, if you were on the bus and you were getting stuck in traffic,

I used to stress myself out on the bus. Yeah, so a big thing for me was getting there early, and then I could really focus and just sort of think ahead to the game. Chocolate? Before the game? Yeah. No chance. Jaffe cake?

Sometimes. Carb gel? Sometimes. Yeah, gels, yeah, shots. Coffee was a big one. Chocolate was always post-game, as. Awesome. Fuel up on the chocolate after with you.

Big time. Or pizza? They were away games. Yeah, they were away games, sort of on the bus, you know, pizzas. But it's funny, after a game, I always just crave sugar. Yeah, really? Always crave sugar. Do you know what?

The thing is, I don't think you played, like, right down in sort of, sort of like the National League, sort of like League 2, did you? No. No, there you go. The man alongside us knows all about National League, League 2, is side of flying at the top end of league too. And while sort of segueing onto that is probably because I'd imagine there's been many a can of lager on an away date back from wherever he's been across the country.

Delighted to say we've made another emergency signing, sort of the window shut, but we've made an emergency signing here on 702 plus. The Bromley boss, Andy Woodman, is with us. Woody, good to have you as a co-host. Thank you for me. Yeah, thank you for me. You know, this man, he saw me Saturday. Jumped on you, did I. And, like, first thing he says,

this man don't get me on his show. I'm like, oh, okay. He's got a love affair with Johnny Jackson. There's always Johnny Jackson on this show. Jack has been on once, once. It must have been the one show I watch. It's him. He's on it.

Tommy's... Listen, I just do what I'm told around here, you know what I'm told around here, do that? Turn up here, do that. don't blame me, I'm just a driver. You're a good driver, man. What's it like? What's it like being top of league to?

Well, it's great at the moment. And it's where we wanted to be. Did we think we'd get there? Yeah, we did in-house. And we sort of made that our target over the Christmas period to make sure when the 1st of January come that we was top of the pile. So that's been good.

It now comes with a different angle. Everyone plays you differently now. They sit in and they do different things. And we've got a different problem. We've got to try and work out. I tune to be at the top of the table down the bottom struggling, that's for sure. And we're embracing it.

And like I said to the guys last night, there is zero pressure in us. There is no pressure on Brumby Football Club. We are top of the table. There is not one pundit, not one supporter in the country that thinks we're going to stay there. There's not one person thinks we should be there, except us in-house.

So we're fine with that. What does a match date look like? It's sort of, you know, early doors for you. What does a typical match date look like for Andy Woodman? you this because off-air and off-air conversations, I feel always like the precursor to what we're going to talk about because we got off script completely. But I ask you because we've been talking about stress as a manager and, you know, being under pressure and all the different things you experience and you've not been off your phone, like you, and you say it all the time. The phone's

non-stop. You've got agents. You've got people phoning. Your assistants phone and shout at Matt, who does the PA. By the way, at Bromley, he's the most enthusiastic man I've ever seen in my life. He's lovely, very confident. very sweet. Joshy Tindle, great guy as well. The guys are Bromley, some of the best people ever meet. But you've got him on the phone, you've got everyone about. Take us to your match today. What time you're waking up for a 3 o'clock kickoff at home?

The weird thing is, is a night before a game, I just can't sleep. It's really bizarre. You'd think it's normally the other way around as a player after a game, you can't sleep. I cannot sleep at night before a game really badly. So then I'll get up in the morning. Some days I might walk the dog, some days I won't, but I literally get out of the house

and literally as soon as I can. Florence. What dog is... Big Great Dane. Be great Dane. Yeah, lovely great Dane. So I take... You can't have a small dog?

I've got miniature snoutcher as well. I've got one of each. But I'll take the dogs from a walk in the morning. I walk past a lady that's a palace fan. It's about 80. She always speaks to me about my game and my results, which is quite nice. And then I will get to the ground about 10 o'clock.

Pretty much, you tell me. I just want to be relaxed, switched off, and thinking about what the day looks like for me, what the problems are going to be and make sure I've got the solutions already in place. It gives you a big comfort, doesn't it? I think it's certainly from my point

if it's a player, as, and I absolutely agree with what he's saying here. I think it gives you comfort when you're in the environment that you're in. You know, when you're there and you can settle down, you can have a tea, you can have a coffee, you can just get to work

and you know that you're in the environment that you're there to do the job. I think when you're at home, you're constantly thinking of the game. So when you get to the stadium, you can really settle down and put your plan in, place. You're exactly right then. When I first went to Bromley and take it, we was a non-league team then.

The lad used to turn up at half-past one when I first got there. So in my mind, I know in my house that I'm getting asked to put the bins out before I go, do the rubbish, do whatever. So I was like, we're getting at 11 o'clock pre-match and they looked at me as if I was like mad that we's there that early. But it was a case of taking out all the distractions at home, the kids need bath in the bottles, whatever they have to do. Get them into the environment, like you said, and get you focused on the job in hand and get you around your teammates

and get you relaxed, ready to go. The knock-on bit that you said, which I was thinking that you'd like to be ready, prepared and all that. I've got some players that are still doing their laces up as the team's in the tunnel. And I've got one player in particular that sticks in my head that every game, he's like that.

And I can't get my head around. I say, look, come in a bit early, be ready, but it's his way, and he lets to be like that. It frazzles my brain. We had a player. It was actually at Millersbury. I'm not going to name him,

but we had a player who's done exactly that. I'm one. I'm quite vocal. Well, I was quite vocal in the change room as a player. And I would always be saying, right, two minutes, lads, come on, we're out, make sure everyone's ready, make sure everyone's ready. And then the bell goes for the warm-up

and we're all ready to go out. And I'm looking and counting the players. I'm thinking, we're a man down here. And he's in the physial room getting a massage. I'm like, we've been here for an hour and a half before the game because you would not got a massage in that time period. And he's doing it literally right up until the last second before we're going out. We're waiting on this player.

And again, I'm going back to my, I'm like, stressing out, thinking we need to go out here, we need to be on time, we need to get things done. But it's just each of their own, isn't it? All players are different. They have their own ritual. Does this come under the umbrella of building culture at football clubs, cultural environment? Someone wants, like, an EFL manager wants to drill that into me,

cultural environment, gave me this analogy, goes, if you have a tree or a plant and like a sort of like a twig or a branch breaks off it, what do you do? Do you sell a tape it back? And I go, no. Because what do you do it? And I'm like, don't know. and he goes, you change the cultural environment around it so that it doesn't happen again.

I'm like, right. Okay. Yeah, okay. Yeah, I agree. You know one of those weird moments where you're having a beer with something? This, by the way, was also the manager who, I mean, his team was sort of like 10th in the league at the time. He goes, if we're, forvating, he goes, if we're, yeah,

if we're around the playoffs, I reckon, I reckon we'll go and win it. I reckon we'll get promoted. They got relegating. Oh, my God. But do you know what you say about culture in Aaron, right? And you said, you alluded to, do you have a beer on the coach and all that? When I first went to Bromley, I never forget the first game. It was Stockport away that we were flying.

We played the game. We got a nil-neill-drawn telly, which was an unbelievable result for Bromley at that time. I get on the coach, and it's packed the coach. We've got like some supporters on there that are on there. I've never seen it like it. It was packed. I couldn't get my head around it. We went 100 yards up the road and the coach pulled over.

And I thought, what's going on here? The staff, the kit man at the time and all that. We're getting off. they were getting crates of beer and they'd bring it on to the coach and I was like, this ain't going to happen again. And I literally, the next game, I got everyone off the coach that shouldn't be on there. I caught rid of all the, never, there's not a bit of alcohol on the coach. Because that day's gone, you know, that, in my opinion.

And it was like I was cutting their arms off the people. They was like, no one would speak to me where I left off the coach because they was like, we've always done this. And it was a case of, no, we might have always done it. That's where you are, where you are. We're changing the culture of this place. And it's been like that for three or four years to get us to where we're. where we are now to make sure everyone buyers into it.

I mean, training on a Sunday before a Tuesday game, you'd have thought I was putting him in prison for a day when I first mentioned it. It's so funny you say that because I was just, when you were talking about that and the culture and changing and you just mentioned the Sunday then, I think, I seen that firsthand back at Huddersfield when David Wagner come into the club.

This is at a time where Sundays were predominantly always off. And David come into the club and he said, right, we're going to do this, this, and this now. So it was always in on a Sunday after a Saturday game. Monday was the day off and that was just him. He absolutely was adamant. That was how it was going to be. If you want to join us and you want to sort of come on this journey with us,

this is what we're doing. If you don't, you will not play. And everyone brought into it and that was obviously the season that we got promoted. And I think one thing that you need when you're setting out rules like that, like you are doing, is success on the back of it. Because there's only one thing for me from a playing point of view that sort of, that takes you on that journey is results. You know, it's a results business.

And as a player, if you're winning game, you'll buy into anything. Anything the manager says or anything that comes from the top, we're doing this, we're doing that. As long as you get the results to back it up, that is the main thing.

Absolutely. Do you know what? I asked Ed Stills. We had an interview with Ed Stoll last week and asked how important it's being liked to you. And I ask you that as well because you aren't liked,

you're loved, you're one of those characters, everyone loves you. And obviously the journey you've taken Bromley Football Club on has been mad. I think everyone thought you were mad for going.

there in the first place considering where you were at Arsenal. But I look at it and I think now with hindsight, the values you've learnt from your career and especially at Arsenal as well, you've probably taken to Bromley and tried to instill. You know, instilling that discipline straight away. Get the fans off the coach with respect. Love you, but sorry, you can't be on here.

And start instilling something here. I mean, there's two sort of parts of that. To be liked by the fans, that's nice. and that doesn't always last and it doesn't always go the way you want. To be liked by the players, I think you get liked by the players if you treat them with respect

and you treat them like a human being. I don't want to be like a Sergeant Major with him, but equally, I want them to tow the line with how I want to do things. And again, with my resume, like being at Arsenal, being at Newcastle, being at Crystal Palace, coaching in a premiership for 16 years.

I'd like to think, and with some good managers, by the way, I'd like to think I've learnt a little bit on route and these boys respect that what I'm putting in place this is what they're doing the highest level we haven't got the riches

of these clubs but there's small fixes there's small 1% and I'll give you one little example there were easy fixes I used to put an itinery out for the whole month he used to go out on a group chat

proper itinerary of what we're doing every day for the month so the lads could have their days off they could go shopping with their wives on that day I never come away from that

if we lost it wasn't a case of you're in tomorrow the lads had never had this they were like are we in we didn't know what he's ever doing So that was one little fix. There was so many of those little easy fixes that I did

that just changed the culture gradually and then implemented how I'm going to work. And when I look back, and some of you probably know this now, more being at Middlesbrough, they were just the norm at proper clubs. But at this club, they wasn't the norm. It's about standards.

Standards, standards, knowledge. You've got to have knowledge. And players, in my opinion, they want discipline. Football players want discipline. They do not want to manage at it. It's flimsy and doesn't really know where he's going. And I've always been there, you know, particularly since I've been in a manager,

I've made a point of being there because players want discipline. They want to know. Consistency as well. Yeah, correct. Consistency is a big thing, I certainly from a player point of view. I think if you've got discipline and you've got consistency from above, I think it doesn't half take you a long way. It really does.

I certainly agree with that. Yeah, and sorry to interrupt you. The other question I got asked a couple of seasons ago is when we got into the league two, I've done an interview, and they said, said, how do you think you do this year? And I said, yeah, we'll make the playoffs. And they looked at me as I was mad the guy I was doing the interview with. And off there, I said to him, what do you think I'm going to answer? We're just going to survive. Because if I said, we're just going to survive, my team will just think we're just going to survive. We're going to shoot

for the stars. And we're doing the same again this year. I'll always do that. Because I think if the leader is doing that, the players have got to step up. And if they don't step up, guess what? Another player will come in. So they either come with me or they don't. And the, the pot of gold at the end is promotion. And that's what we all want. We're going to talk Bromley a little bit later on in the program. Woody, great to have you on. Welcome to 72 plus. The home of the EFL from Five Live Sport.

We've got to start at the summit of the championship. Tommy, you and I were there Monday night. Hadji Wright's Hatrick as Coventry back at the top of the second tier. Three one they beat Middlesbrough at the CBIus. Take us through the game. What did you make of it? Well, first and foremost, as you've just said, we were both there. We both seen what was, in my opinion, the two best teams in the league.

think the game was probably made up of moments in my opinion. I think Coventry took their moments and I think Millersborough ultimately didn't. The biggest moment in the game for me was when Coventry were 2-0 up Millers would get back into the game and it really looked like once they scored the only

the on them to really go and take the game to Coventry a minute later. There's a penalty and it's almost game over. As I say, I think there was moments in the game that just shifted Coventry's way on the night you could argue that they did deserve to win the game but yeah a great encounter

two very very good teams two front-footed teams and there's been a lot of noise about Coventry obviously probably since the start of the year they've had a little bit of a wobble and the form's not been great but let's get one thing clear

they are a good football inside a very very good side I thought the intensity from minute one from Coventry was there but I also feel it was as an occasion there was a lot of pressure on them I was travelling through the city on the way to the game and you could feel it

around the place there was an expectation the crowd were there, they brought the noise, it was unbelievable. And when there's expectation, Andy, you need to deliver, and they did deliver. They did deliver. I saw the highlights of the game, and I thought that was very good, very good value. And, look, Middlesbrough had been on a good little run-up until that point. But Frank has done a really good job with that team, and he's consistently done it. And I know they've had a little bit of a lack of form at a little period.

That's still a good team, and they've still got an identity, and they haven't gone away from that identity. and the one thing I've noticed from afar is I've seen no panic in them I know you said about the fans are getting an elegy but the team seem they seem galvanised they seem to know what they're doing

and Frank's been around the block as a player at the highest level so I can't imagine Frank's going to be panicking in any way shape or performing it to the players No it doesn't listen that was a big one from on Monday I really think it was a big one the expectation

the sort of atmosphere at the ground on Monday it almost felt like Listen, Millersborough went into the game on a really, really good run of form. Six wins on the bounce. They were obviously flying. And I think on Monday, if Millersborough were to have gone there and won, it might have looked completely different from a Coventry point of view. The fans may really have sort of, you know, oh my God, we've blown it type of thing here.

So it was a big one for Coventry. But just to flip it to the Millersborough point of view, as I've just said there, the run of form that they've been on, I think it was so unrealistic to think that they were going to go between now and the end of the season, winning every single game. I think it's important to work out why, Millisbury got beat on Monday night, park it up, move on. Don't forget, this is a club with an immaculate home record.

I think they've only lost once. They've lost. Exactly that, yeah. Once there this season. I think Frank come out after the game and said that that was a big one for us. I think they know, well, they knew that they needed to provide a performance and the result, and they got both. You know, it's certainly hot and up into a really good title race at the minute, for sure. Woody, I love asking managers. This is my favourite question to ask.

Do you prefer being the chaser or the chaste? Well, that's a really good question for us, because we've actually. only been the one being chased just recently, but I'm still selling the card that we're the underdog to everyone, because I think we are. And we play that card really well, because we haven't got the biggest budget, we haven't got the biggest squad, we're not the biggest club. And I've got a group of players that are, you know, with respect to them, they're all waifs and strays and all carry scars from being in the lower levels of football. So they all are the underdogs, and they play that role really well. Now we're being chased. It is a different dimension, but I think

we're growing into that a little bit. You know, we don't want to give up our home record that we've got. We don't want to give up any points. And we know how important every match is, as the games go smaller, less games left, we know that we've got to stop getting beat and keep getting results. It's an obvious thing.

Whichever team finds consistency now in these last 14 games, because it's like a mini-season, isn't it? You know, you've done the majority of the work. And again, I'm sure Woody will agree with this in terms of what he's done at Bromley. You're going into the home stretch now. Whoever can find that consistency

as quickly as possible and just keep racking up them wins will ultimately achieve what they want to achieve at the end of the season. Business end of the season. Exactly that. It's exactly that.

I mean, once you hit Easter, you're flying on you. I'm not going to lie, I'm looking at the next four or five games and I'm buzzing for this tight race. I love a good title race in the championship. Sometimes you have those years where it's kind of like a foregone conclusion.

Now, it's the Wild West out there, boys. It really is. And the prize is so big, you know. The prize is so big and it ramps up everything, as we know. And the two, clubs want to go up automatically because then after that you're in the world of pain of the playoffs and I mean if ever there's a massive game that final is huge and no one wants no one wants

to be in it but they if you give a player a choice could you go up via it it's the best feeling ever but no one really wants to be in it everyone says it though I mean winning the league is winning the playoffs people ask people ask me all the time about the plan and I stand by it to this day winning the I mean I was fortunate enough to win the playoffs so I've never lost in the playoffs but the thought of winning the playoff final against winning the league I would take the playoff final every day. Do you know what? I love the playoffs so much. I was so sick last year. I was so ill during the

playoffs. I remember that. I was with you. I ton to like for the chest infection. I had to go to hospital on the Tuesday and get wired up to a trip and the woman looked to me and she said what happened to your tonsils and I was like I was working on the playoff final and she was like oh okay mate I had to go and get wired up it was terrible

I was in such a bad way. John was just sweating during the playoff final but you love it. He wasn't missing out for the world. I love it. I thought it was just it was a warm day I was like, it's not that fast. Mate,

I, like I was in a sauna, I was like, I'm not well, I'd hallucinate it for two days, two days. We went up by the plows

at Bromley. I mean, that game, I went through every emotion possible that you could go through it in a lifetime in that match, you know,

from being in front to being pegged back to your team looking like they've run out of legs to then them kicking in and get another gear. Then you go extra time and you've hit the post,

you've hit the bar and you've hit the bar oh it's not going to be our day and then it comes down to a penalty shootout the last penalty the last the one kick in a match it comes down to and you think I've been through all of this pain and it now comes down to this

but the you know the adulation and the hype of winning it is off the charge you can't you know we had exactly the same at Huddersfield it was a drab one to say the least as reminds me of that all the time the worst yeah the whole playoffs

was about them wasn't it but as we always say and Joby, when he's on the show, he always agreed, like, you get the job done. Yeah. You get the job done. But just going back to what you said about emotions then, I was exactly the same. You sort of get to the stadium, and you're trying to be focused,

and then you get to the game, and it's adrenaline, and then you get to the end of the game, and you're thinking, oh, my goodness, the panic, and we were the last penalty as well, and I was injured at the time. I went off in the game, so I was pitch-side with the big, you know, the big moon boots, crutches the full-it,

so I couldn't really, oh, well, I was just, You're in full kit? What? Full kit, yeah. Oh, full kit, mate. Full kit, boot on, crutches on. But I'm on the side of the pitch.

You know when you just feel so helpless, you can't affect the game, you can't do anything. I remember I was as white as a ghost. I was just thinking, oh my gosh, what could happen afterwards, the sort of the high of it, but also the low of it, just on this one kick. And again, like I say, I stand by it.

The ball went in, we scored, we won, and the feeling afterwards, even for the rest of my career, the rest of my life now, to have that feeling and know that we achieved that on that day is an unbelievable feeling. What do you looked as ill as me that day that you went up? I just remember you just...

I was ill going out of stairs. There's London 21 stairs. You're blowing going upstairs. Do you know what though? I was there and all we could say is Brian Webster. Is that an EFL? Captain's arm bad? That man is so nonchalon. He's so blaséren, I kid you not.

I never even knew they wore that and had that one until I saw it back on the telly. No one had told me about that and I couldn't believe it. And then, you know, Byron Webster's a tack on the penalty because they'd practised them all week

and I only chose the penalty takers once in the season. That was barf away and got it wrong so I said, I'm never choosing a penalty takers again. So my goalie coach chose him. So I didn't even know who's taking the penalties

and I just trust him because he'd done it meticulously. I didn't see Byron going up to take the winning penalty by centre half and I'm thinking, oh my God, who's decided this? And I mean, you know, the wink, the smart.

He's like a bit of a bit of, kid as well. Do you know what's funny though just talking about them penalties we've done the exact same thing leading up to the playoffs

and I always found it amazing how you can have some players who do them all week in training and they never ever miss and then they get to the big stage and they miss and vice versa

I have players who were missing through the week and then they get to 90,000 at Wembley and they stroke it home as though it's like nothing I've got a theory right that I stuck by

and this will split opinion with people listening players yourself I won't let any loan players take a penalty. That was one rule I've got. I will not let a lone player take a penalty. And someone said, why?

I said, because it doesn't mean quite as much to them as it does to the team that are still here. And I had that theory and the two players that missed the penalty for the opposition, both lone players. What about loan with obligation to buy?

Oh, you're digging deep in there. My name's Steve Bradnell, a sister manager of Royal Oak FC. You may have seen me online with Vinyl. Vinyl sensation. And now the BBC have given me the chance

to set the footballing world bang to her eyes. This could be a great opportunity for us lads, a podcast for the BBC. Can I just say, what's a podcast? Brilliant. Right start. Well done, Bob. Brilliant. We could completely show

utter transparency to Royal Oak fans. I'll use my charm. Gift it, gab. Games gone. The Steve Bracknell podcast. Watch on YouTube. Listen on BBC Sounds. If there was a big rent button that would just demolish the internet, I would smash that button with my forehead.

From the BBC, this is the interface, the show that explores how tech is rewiring your week and your world. This isn't about quarterly earnings or about tech reviews. It's about what technology is actually doing to your work, your politics, your everyday life. and all the bizarre ways people are using the internet. Listen on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts. 72 plus the EFL podcast. Listen on BBC sounds.

Speaking alone with obligation to buy, Michael O'Neill is the new Blackburn Rovers manager. If you think the name's familiar, it's probably because he's obviously also the manager of Northern Ireland. O'Neill's been appointed on a short-term deal until the end of the season. He's even won his first game in charge. He looks like a happy, happy camper. up at Ewood Park.

How does this man balance two jobs when you're stressed with one? I don't know as the first answer, but I do think the international scene is a little bit different, but it will come to the head when he needs to get together with that squad, and let's hope he's got enough points in front that he can sort of relax and concentrate on his international job. It is quite unusual. But the guy's an experienced manager.

He's been a top manager, and Blackburn have obviously done their homework to bring him in. to keep him in the league and well played by them. I just hope he doesn't fall flat on his face and he gets a backlash where it goes wrong for the Irish squad. Well, I think only time will tell because when we get to the end of the season, Blackburn are either going to be safe or they're not. And Northern Ireland, they're either going to the World Cup or they're not.

So I think time will tell. I mean, one thing that Michael O'Neill will not want to do is have a relegation on his CV and get knocked out in the qualifiers. They're playing Italy. Well, yes, they are. And it's funny you say that, because I had a look at the fixtures. actually playing Middlesbrough as well in that same time period. In Northern Ireland?

Not quite Northern Ireland, no. Blackburn are playing Middlesbrough in that same sort of vicinity of time. So, listen, there's going to be a lot of tough games between now and the end of the season for Blackburn. They're right amongst that relegation battle. And again, only time will tell come the end of the season, whether or not he made the right decision to sort of try and balance the two. And whether it works from or whether it doesn't, who knows. But one thing I would say, he has got previous in the championship.

Obviously, I have Michael at Stoke for a couple of years. he'd come in at a time when Nathan Jones had just been sacked. He'd come in to sort of try to steady the ship a little bit, get us over the line. Because if I remember rightly we were actually bottom of the league when Michael come into the club. He kept us afloat and you'd have to say he did a fairly decent job.

I think Blackburn... He did. No, he did as in fairness. I mean, look, not being funny. It was not pretty to watch. It's not entertaining. It's proper old-school bread and butter football. It's effective. but he needed, it's like, you know when, there's a really bad analogy,

you know when you get food poisoning, you get a clear the system out, that's the job he did at stuff. He cleared the system out, and then someone went inside 17 players, the next transfer window, and the system got polluted again for a bit. But you know what I mean.

He goes, and he's effective, and I think Blackburn have seen that in him and gone, right, we know who we are, we know where we are, we know what we've got. Let's get someone who can do a job. Absolutely, and if Blackburn do stay up this season,

a different conversation, I'm sure we'll be had in the summer, because make no mistake about it, the fact that Michael's gone into Blackburn, I'm pretty sure he'll have one eye on next season already. If I go in there and get the job done and keep this club up, which make no mistake about it, as that will be their remit now between the end of the season.

Get this club out of trouble because there is a risk that we could get relegated. If they stay up this season, Michael O'Neill will have one eye on that job next season. Make no mistake about that. Is there anything wrong with not being a sexy football manager? You are a sexy football match. Thank you very much. But you know what I mean?

In terms of someone who goes there and plays basic, basic, basic, just keeps it simple. there's nothing sparkly about it because there is nothing sparkly about what he's going to do. He's going to go in and try and get results and grind results out. It just made me laugh what you was going to say that. You said a minute ago, you know, it wasn't sexy football. It was all old school.

All of those quotes. But the most important thing is winning football. I never get that. You know, people sometimes learn to my team. I have a other manager saying, we know what they're going to do, we know what they're good at. What, winning football matches? How bad's that?

And I don't know any supporter that goes away from a game and isn't happy that their teams won and they're not really bothered, deep down how they've won. They all moan wasn't quite pretty, but deep down, they just want their team to win. And that always fascinates me that, you know, this certain way of football, winning football's what we're in the business for.

And if you're a winner, which you are doing right now, the players will follow. There's nothing better from a playing point of view as than winning football matches. Yes, sometimes you want to play the perfect game of football, but ultimately, you're not going to get that throughout the season. You're just not. There's so many games you can't always play the way you want.

to play. Sometimes you have to just dig in, do the basics, do the ugly stuff and get through the games. What's his personality like day to day? What's he like dealing with you? Obviously you have gaffers who are jolly, gaffers who are arm over the shoulder. No, he wasn't that. He wasn't, no, he wasn't that. I mean,

he obviously had the Northern Ireland job before he come in at Stoke. And I do think there is a big difference between being an international manager and a day-to-day manager. And I think the experiences he had with Stoke will, I would like to think they'll stand him in good stead moving into Blackburn because I'm sure he looked back on his time at Stoke and think we did this right, we did that right, but I also think

he'll look back at it and think we should have done that better, we could have done that better. So I think moving into this Blackburn role now, he'll be able to lean on his experiences, the good and the bad. And like I say, time will tell. It's an interesting appointment, I must say. Do you reckon this whole balancing the Northern Ireland job is going to work? I mean, he said having had discussions with the IFA and with Blackburn, we felt it was something that was feasible, it's something that I believe I'm capable of doing and both parties will benefit. it. If I felt for one moment it would distract from the Italy game, I wouldn't have taken the opportunity and I wouldn't have done that to Blackburn Rovers. Either it's important. They have my focus. I think it can work. I do think it can work because it's not a whole campaign. It's just the playoffs. It's the last bit. And it's the most important bit, by the way. But I do think it can work. But I do also think it can come with a backlash. Like you said, if Blackburn don't survive and they go down and then he loses the game to Whittley, which is a tough game as we know.

it's going to come with a backlash and that's what I probably worry for him about and I'm probably sure he's thought about it and realised look that's the last thing I need on my CV like you said but he probably has also got one eye and I'm going to just be honest and say

this is that if he loses to Italy that might be the end of his international career through his own doing so he's got to have one eye in his next club job and if he keeps blackburn up and he loses to Italy guess what he's going to walk into the backburn job on a three-year contract I kind of get that as well.

I know we have criticized Blackburn, and everyone criticizes Blackburn and feels like that's just kind of the done thing. It's like water is wet. I actually think this is a really good decision. I think they've done their own work. They've stuck it out. Who knows if it's cost effective, and that's kind of like the category they're working with.

But I think it's a really, really good decision to get him in. So that being said, stick your neck on the line now. Did he stay up? Yeah. I think with him. Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. To go in there when your first game in charge

QPR away, QPR pick up all their points at home as well. Good. Can I put my dick on the line? Of course you can. I think they stay up by Dover they beat Italy. Hey, mate, Friday night under the light. Big Garby. They've got Preston. Yeah, they've got Preston. I mean, they've got two home games now, which again we go back to the schedule

and we go back to how busy the games are Saturday, Tuesday, Saturday, Tuesday. I think if you can collate as many points as you can in these three game weeks, they can take you so far in the league. they'll fancy the chance in these next two. They got Preston, they got Bristol City. Let's go to the bottom end of League 1. Wigan Athletic have appointed Gary Caldwell

for a second spell in charge of your place is Ryan Lowe, who was sacked with the Lattics in the relegation zone. Exeter's lost Wiggins game, Gary Caldwell? Yes, I think so. I think he's done a fantastic job at Exeter. I know from afar the budget

hasn't been nowhere near, probably what the other teams are. And he's going back to a club he knows really well. and he knows what's expected at a club. He knows the fabric of the club. And look, he's been, how we dress it out with Exeter. He's been a successful manager there, in my opinion,

because I've played Exeter and I've worked Exeter. It's a tough place to go, tough place to attract players. He's now in a middle of the country with a club and a squad that I think you'd do okay with. And they're not really adrift. I think three points of drift to get out of it.

I think he'll keep them up. It is very tight down the bottom. I think you're absolutely right with your assessment. of him going back there. He obviously knows the club. It's been a decent chunk of time away from the club, but it's interesting the interview that he gave. He said he's a much better, much different manager

than he was 10 years ago. And again, it's all about that experience, isn't it? The good, the bad. He's obviously going back to a football club that he loves dearly that he clearly got an affection to. And I don't think for one minute he'd have gone back there if he didn't think that he could get them out of the trouble that they're in. He will galvanise the players. You know, that little bit of know-how

of how to deal with the club and the people at the club. I think that'll stand them in good step between now and the end of the season. I think they've won 1 and 11. How do you reverse a slump like that? How do you... Manage spells to come straight? Yeah, but they got banged up 6-1 the other week.

And do you know what, they've got a tough game tonight. They play Luton tonight, which would you be a tough game. It'd be a really tough game that tonight for them. Luton are a decent side. Yeah, I don't know, I don't know. Luton on their day can think to play that as well. It can, but this is the case for majority of the teams in the league. You never know what you're going to get on any given day.

It's swamping it, Louie. I always say the margins. It's about the margins. And if the margins go your way on some day, like we said about Coventry, the margins the other night went their way at the right time. If Gary goes in and has the bounce and the margins go his way and he can grind out a clean sheet

and they get a moment, he can come over a one-neill win. I can see that in any game. Sometimes just a new voice is sometimes what teams need has and he's got experience in this league. He's been promoted out of this league, or be it was a long time ago. Now he's got that little bit of it.

experience and players sometimes when they're in a little bit of bad form like Wiggin have been. Sometimes just a new voice can just sort of galvanise the group and listen it'll be interesting to see how he does. Let's push on and finish with we're talking about you and Bromley Woody. I think one of the questions I wanted to ask when we were talking at the top was how do you take a club from non-league and make them football league? Because you look around Bromley, you look around the facilities, the stadium obviously is being developed slowly slowly you're doing things. I think the one word I used to to describe what you're doing is everything's organic,

nothing's rushed, nothing's artificial, everything's being done at a pace, which matches where you are, footballing wise. But how is that process? I think you've right, it is organic. I think we've got an owner that sticks to his remit of making sure he gets the infrastructure right, he sticks to the budget,

we don't go off script with the budget, I know the budget, because he wants the club to be sustainable. So that's the part I work alongside. for me, I've made sure I've instilled belief in the team, belief in the people that work around the club. I've tried to make it one club, so we're all together, and that's the guy that sells hot dogs

or the guy that works in marketing, and I want them to all buy into what we're doing. And at the beginning of the season, I always do a meeting with every member of the club, with the players, because I think if we're all in the same pot together, and we've all got the belief that we can do something, you've still got to get the results, but you're all heading towards the same goal

on and off the pitch. You have to recruit well, you have to use the loan market well. We have got a DNA of how we do things at the football club and I think that is partly how the owner works and how I work. We fight and scrap

and give every ounce of energy, time and effort to make sure we get maximum out of our team and out of our team of people off the pitch and people on the pitch. and I think that's really what we've done. I think it's that us against the world mentality, isn't it? And I can't understand. I can completely adhere to what you're saying

because we had that at Huddersfield, the season that we got promoted. I think the start of the season, it was very much a case of, you know, mid-table at best. But the mentality that you've just set out there was very similar to the mentality that David Wagner brought to the club

of Us Against the World type of thing, whether you're a sub, whether you're out of the squad, whether you're the Kipman, whether you're the dinner lit, whatever it was, everyone was fighting for that one common goal. And it just showed,

how powerful I can be and you've obviously nailed it I mean you're coming up to five years am I right in saying? Five years yeah five years in C.R. And I think the sort of mentality that you've shown you've instilled into the football club has been nothing short of sensational. I really do mean that to sort of take the club to where they are now.

Listen I know there still is a long way to go but I think if you can get to that end of the season in that automatic spots I think it's been an unbelievable achievement. I think Tommy should be my agent by the way. Hey you need a coach so I'll get him in for you. I love the, you know, you talk about the sort of being the waifs and strays and, you know, it's like the Andy Woodman Rehabilitation Centre for footballers that have sort of gone on journeys. And you look at someone like a Michael Cheek who feels of the cut of, you know, those strikers that playing on league, like that we love like a Matt Tubbs and like a Matt Reed, you know, like an old school bustling number nine.

I love him. I love an old school forward though. He is an old school centrefoot. They're rare. They're rare. It's like an old beamer. You sit there and you're like, whoa, look at the. That's what it is.

It's an old school car. You see it. You turn your head and you're like, wow. But I love a proper old school boy. Like that, you know, just gives it something. That's the sort of characters I want in my football club. I won't have any bad eggs. If I've signed a bad egg and sometimes you do that, you know straight away.

I've done it a couple years ago, signed a bad egg. And I went to my chair and I said, look, I've got this wrong. I need to get this guy out of the club. And we got rid of him straight away. That's the brutal part of it. But you know that that can rock the whole camp. and you can't have someone swimming against the tide when you're all trying to do the same thing

and we've got that in abundance at our place. How do you, and a manager talked to me about loans once in a time and said, you know, it's about being trusted by clubs to, you know, develop. And you're a loans manager, you know what it's all about, Smith, you know, in terms of how do you get trusted by these clubs? How does a Manchester City go, yeah, go on, we'll send a boy down at a Bromley and a Brimford are very big on it,

but I think it's great what they do in terms of, you know, fostering those links with clubs in League 1 and League 2. But yeah, how do you pick these players up and go, yeah, go on? I think first and foremost, it's relationships. I'm fortunate enough that I've been in the game since I was 15, so I've got a lot of good relationships with people. I think it helps that I've got a son that's a footballer because I will treat a player like I want my son to be treated.

And ultimately, it's not about Andy Woodman. It's about making sure that these boys have a career and know the mechanics of football and learn what's required to be footballer, not just come on loan and you get in the team because you've come on loan from Man City, no, you've got to come in the team, you've got to earn the right to be in the team, and then you've got to stay in the team. And I sort of speak to the loan managers, Tommy, and I always have that conversation with him. Some say, what, he's got to play. I kind of say, well, then he's not going to be for me, if that's your remit, because that's

not the industry demands. I want to keep it real. So we do have those conversations, but I think ultimately it's relationships with loan managers and clubs that they know that you're a good fit for their player and if their player does well he's going to play and we're going to send him back a better player and that's really important for us I think from my point of view as I think the relationships is absolutely right you've hit the nail on the head there

I think even just having 15, 20 minutes with you this morning it's quite easy to see what you want your team to look like how you want your team to play what are the key sort of factors that you need from a player and then it's down to me on Middlesbrere to look at what we have and think oh right okay well that player ticks that box

and it might be a different club, there might be another club who doesn't require what you require and that's when it's all about gauging the balance of where we see players move into these different clubs but you're dead right. I think the relationships, having the conversations and understanding

what exactly that you want and the football club want is the most important thing. Hopefully, listen, not all loans are successful as that is just a fact. Unfortunately, that's just how it works and you can factor in all these different things and I could send a player over to Bromley and think, yep, it's going to work

and all of a week later you get sacked and another manager comes in and the remit's completely different. So loans are not always successful, but I do believe that one way or another, you do get some benefits out of it, whichever way that it does for. Well, Andy Woodman, your emergency loan deal has been successful. We're going to look to potentially extend it and get something done.

We'll send our loan manager, Tommy Smith. He's now my agent. That is it for this episode of the Football Daily. Thank you to Tommy and thank you to Andy Woodman. The next time will be Euroleagues with Mark Chapman. As for us on 72 plus, the EFL pod, we'll be back next week. We'll catch you then. Five live sports.

The Six Nations. Rugby's greatest championship. What a day of the Six Nations it's been. Live commentary of every match on BBC Sounds. I don't think he has to try. Just a stunning school. One of the all-time great tries. The Rugby and a weekly podcast will be daily throughout the tournament

with all the best insight and analysis and the biggest names in the game. Listen on BBC Sounds If there was a big rent button that would just demolish the internet, I would smash that button with my forehead. From the BBC, this is the interface, the show that explores how tech is rewiring your week and your world. This isn't about quarterly earnings or about tech reviews. It's about what technology is actually doing to your work, your politics, your everyday life.

And all the bizarre ways people are used. using the internet. Listen on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts.