Football Daily - 72+ EFL Pod: Blackburn’s pitch and Wrexham investment

Episode Date: December 10, 2025

Aaron Paul and Jobi McAnuff are joined by Phil Brown to discuss the permanent appointment of Tonda Eckert to Southampton. Is there any surprise that Southampton have acted now? Should his contract have been shorter? They also discuss Blackburn’s pitch woes and the investment at Wrexham – is Phil Parkinson the man to take Wrexham to the Premier League? Heartbreak for Lyle Taylor’s Chelmsford City in the FA Cup 2nd Round, but success for Weston-super-Mare – which 3rd round fixtures are they looking out for? Plus, who will the latest additions to the ‘hard men’ XI be? And they discuss their predictions for an unpredictable League 2. And as Phil’s Peterborough Sports head to Scunthorpe in the FA Trophy, he’s been to Southampton, but has he ever been to Scunthorpe?Time Codes:01:52 – How’s Phil getting on at Peterborough Sports? 05:12 – Tonda Eckert appointed permanently at Southampton 17:34 – Blackburn’s match postponed 23:10 – Wrexham investment 31:10 – FA Cup 2nd Round 34:49 – EFL ‘Hard Men’ XI 40:05 – League 2 44:02 – 72Plus/72Minus 46:47 – Phil’s been to Southampton, but has he ever been to Scunthorpe?

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Welcome on to 72. plus the EFL podcast from BBC Five Live Sport with me as ever. Joby McAradav. Joel, how are we? I am very, very well, thank you, mate. Just gearing up for a normal, busy, busy Christmas games every single day, which is what we love. So, yeah, all good. And back from our recording last week of our Christmas special, which is quite enjoyable,

wouldn't it? Loads of stories. I've got to say, well done. Christmas craters. Yeah, bringing the crackers, the party hats. the pair I was almost going to give it away there that we recorded with weren't really having the quality of them were they I think they thought they were a bit cheap which I thought was harsh

it's the thought that counts what did you contribute it's not me I'm not the ones I was just grateful to have a cracker and to get into the Christmas spirit it wasn't me sort of saying that they weren't quite the quality that they would normally have in their household but that might just show us the sort of levels that we're working with when it comes to the pod

I don't know about that I'm not sure about that that. Also alongside us Peterborough Sports Boss and Ian Ashby fanatic. It is Philip Brown and oh, Sunderland fan as well. You must be buzzing right now. Absolutely flying as I was the last one is that. A little combo that you pull together there. Something they're doing unbelievable. Really, really well. And if I saw it coming, to be fair, I thought they might have had a tough time. But you've got to say, you know, everybody automatically said that the three that came up would be the three that'd go down and that's not the case this year, is it?

I mean, wolves are really struggling but Leeds are doing okay. Burnley's probably the one that's going to be favourite out of the three, but Sondon's doing a great job. How are you getting on at a Peterborough Sports? What's going on? What's the latest? We're two steps forward, I was one step back and it really, it gets me

a wee bit, you know, and we just met with the lads yesterday and the part-time standing of the football club is something I'm trying to move quickly towards, well, not full-time, but you've got go sort of hybrid first and foremost, you know. But after a game, and Jobby will understand this, after a game, I just want to get into the lads a wee bit on the Sunday or the Monday,

and you can't see them until the Tuesday night. So it's almost 72 hours after the game before you can get your analysis across to them, and it's really important that you do that, I think. What's it like in terms of trying to get those messages across, trying to monitor what the boys are like? Obviously, you're not in that full-time environment where you're monitoring every sort of factor,

every bit of food they're taking in. Like, these guys are going to be out there working jobs and having a laugh sort of going out, doing their thing with their boys, doing their thing, their mates. And you can't do anything about it. Nothing at all. Nothing at all.

You can just try and impose yourself upon them to a certain extent. You know, the lifestyle I've been leading over the last 40-odd years has been full-time, professional. You're bang at it every day. you can't put it down. You're not really a barometer for success, though, are you, Philip? I mean, you enjoy a bottle of wine and a curry most nights.

Well, it's not a problem that I can get away with that to a certain extent now that I've hung my boots up. You called yourself the biryani king to me once upon a time. Well, I'm talking to the birriani king right here, I'm not. A model of fitness and vitality is not Joby McEnough. And Jobes, I just wanted to ask, you know, how you've got to feel for film as well? It's a tough situation where you're trying to build something,

but you've got such limited time. Yeah, it is difficult, I think, from a coaching perspective, again, I think when, you know, that turnaround, like Phil's saying, is elongated in terms of when you're seeing the players again. And there might be one or two little tweaks and things that you want to go through that can make a massive difference between game to game and, you know, when you're having to turn up and you haven't really done enough prep or been able to sort of debrief the games,

it can be difficult. But that is the level, sure, Phil, was a little bit more worried about other things than biryani's in terms of what the lads are up to and recovering. So, you know, it is a challenge, but that's the sort of situation that you're in. And I think that's the beauty of coaching and managing. It's trying to find different ways to get the best out of a group,

whatever your situation is. And I'm sure, you know, Phil will get hold of that group and sort them out. Philip, you've given the boys a Christmas do? Yeah, they've got their own lined up. And Nate, I was not in, you know, after one of the games. It's normal stuff to tell you the truth. Tharron, you know, it goes on at every level, but obviously the lower down you go, the less

profile and therefore they can get away with one of two things that we couldn't get away with at the top level, you know? But that's just life, you know, you just got to realize that they're really, you know, you just mentioned the word, you know, you talk about being working all day and how committed to the cause when I've been sitting in a wagon for 12 hours and you want to go and do two hours running around on a football pitch. Sometimes it takes preference, the fact that you're bringing more money in and the other job, you know. But that's something I've got to understand and I'm slowly but surely getting to understand it. But dealing with it is two different things.

Let's get straight into it and talk Southampton. Tonda Eckett has been appointed as their permanent head coach. He signed a deal until 2027. Joby, much of a surprise for you? No, not at all. You know, we touched on this a couple of weeks ago. think when he was in the midst of that brilliant start. And I think the only real question was when were they going to make a decision and what

that decision would be. I think they needed to come to a conclusion in terms of whether they were going to give it to him permanently, you know, because they'd had such a good start. And it has been night and day, hasn't it? I mean, let's be honest, in terms of the goals they're scoring. I did in the studio last night. And I think before the game last night, they'd scored 18 in 6. They scored another three last night.

So that's just an incredible turnaround from what was the game. a big problem before. The length of contract, I think then is the next big question. Potentially could have given it to the end of the season, but they've got another year. So I think that gives everyone there that little bit, extra, a bit of security and stability, which is really, really important. And it gives them a great chance to really go now and crack on

and continue what has been an outstanding, outstanding start to his managerial career at the club. My thoughts are varied on the difference between Will Still and Tonda. I've been reading one of two articles. and the way they've been describing the coaches and sometimes you get tarnished with the wrong brush, you know, I think Will still was all about having control of the ball and being very cautious the way he played and it was borne out of the fact that he was sort of more into defence

than an attack. It looks like Tondas has gone in there, just going risk, just release tempo. It's a very exciting game, it must be said. And I watched the game last night and I thought myself, wow, they've gone three in the low. and you know Alan Armstrong's fought a couple of goals and it was down to a high press the first goal was outstanding from the back you know talking about playing from the back

dear me two passes it was into the striker's feet the next thing you know it's in the back of the net then that first half was then blown away a wee bit West Brom came after them and it could have got a point in fact they made it deserved a point with the second half performance of truth be known but when you're flying that flag of this is the way we're playing and it's all exciting and it's brand new etc etc etc etc Southampton supporters are going to go along with it, and it's probably carrying the players to a certain extent to get that win yesterday.

I mean, that's just sort of emphasised the kind of football that Southampton are going to be playing it. And if I'm not mistaken, Southampton, when he took the job, we're in the bottom three, four. They're now top seven, top eight. It's just amazing how a club like Southampton are now pushing for, to get back in the Premier League. It's amazing.

I don't, I'll be honest with you, I don't think it's amazing. They're the resources. He's just taking the handbrake off, hasn't it? And I mean, I actually wanted to ask you about it. Obviously, look, you're a season vet when it comes to being a manager. You've been sacked before a few times. But, Philip, afterwards, when you see, like, you look back and you see someone making it work with your team, how do you feel, Saturday afternoon, when you're not in the dagger, you're sat either at a game or having a cup of tea?

And let's be fair, people will talk to you about it as well. people aren't going to sit there and be all nice and nice and go oh Phil don't want to hurt your feelings so I'm not going to talk to you about being sacked by X, Y, Z. They're going to go hey, they're playing for him but not for you.

It must be a horrible feeling. It is when you see a manager take your place first and foremost because you never fully believe that you deserve to get the sack. It's one of them. You always believe that you can turn the corner you can turn it round.

But for the play with the same group of players in a different style and this is what we're talking about that's never happened to me that's always been a case of being involved in a relegation fight

and we've had to dig our way out of that and we've done that and then you move on and somebody else takes the rain that happened at Barrow after I left and somebody steadied the ship

the next thing you know Barrow's in the second division and doing okay but it's one of them where you don't wish the club any ill you don't wish the supporters any ill you don't wish the manager goes in

any of you, you just want, you want to be trep with respect, and the majority of football clubs do that, you know, on your exit, they do that, but, you know, bottom lane is football's football. And a group of players that can turn around a football club on a change of management, need to look

at themselves, if truth be known. You know, people always look at the manager, I wouldn't guarantee, but they need to look at the group, they need to look at themselves and why they're playing that way. But I was making reference to one coach before, and Will's still having a different style. And that was born out of the fact He came out of the French leagues, I think.

He was in a survival campaign. He never had the biggest budget in the world, and he was always fighting against better opposition. He's actually done that at South Hampton, but he did have better players. He did have the biggest budget. It didn't realize that. This guy's gone in, Tonda.

He's been at the football club, I think, with the youth policy. And Tonda's gone in there and just said, we have got the biggest, but we have got the best players, and we're going to play the better football. And that's what he's doing, in a short space of time. Long term, but Phil, what do you reckon he's gone in? Do you reckon he's gone?

gone, boys, you're playing within yourselves, maybe Will Stills overcomplicate things, and obviously we don't know what goes on behind closed doors and on training grounds, but you can kind of make an educated guess at what's going on by watching what goes on on a Saturday afternoon. Do you reckon he's gone in and just

gone, lads, come on, like, you can play how you want, like, you go and go and express yourself. Fully, fully, fully. But if taking a handbrake off, you've got to say to a player, go on, what holds you back? Who holds you back. If the coach is holding you back, you've got to have a personal with him. You've got to have a personal with him. If you don't have a personal with him, then you're doing yourself with this service. Then if you're doing yourself of this service, therefore you'll be able to team, you're doing a team of this. Bottom line is, you've got to have the courage in your own convictions to say that I'm not happy with the way we're playing here. I'm better than this. We're better than this and we need to do something about it. If nobody's prepared to approach Will still with that kind of project, shall we say, then he only has himself to blame and they only have themselves to blame. But then playing really exciting football.

And don't going to be wrong, I could say to you, they could have been beaten 4-3 last night off West Birmingham on four corners, on four corners. Does that mean the new manager is going to be doing corners all week? Is he going to be defending, or is he going to concentrate on just playing football the way? He wants to play and score more goals in the opposition. Jobbs, just looking at, I mean, from your sort of perspective

and having, you know, watched a lot of Southampton, can you understand where it went wrong for Willstone? Gosh, it's such a tough one because like Phil said and what we've spoken about, it is the same group of players. And what Tonda Eckhart's getting out of them is night and day. Finnazaz is a prime example. I know he arrived late in the window, but he looks a shadow of the player that we've seen over the last few years at this level.

He's now back to what we all know, goals and assists, creativity. The biggest one for me is Adam Armstrong, though, you know, again, some of the chances he had. And sometimes, you know, as forwards, as good as he's. he is and things weren't quite falling for him. They were getting opportunities and he wasn't able to take them for whatever reason and he gets himself going and all of a sudden he gets on these runs that we know he can. He's already into double figures for the season and a team that has really struggled earlier on. I think it's really interesting with Tonda Eckert being in and around the club before.

I think you then start getting a little bit of an idea maybe discreetly through certain channels of what's not quite going right or what the players feel because there's clearly has been some issues. There's no two ways about it. The turnaround is too drastic to go and win six out of seven and score the amount of goals that they have compared to what they were doing, particularly the last three or four games under Will Still. There were some issues there. I don't know what they were. So I think what he's done very, very quickly is understood what potentially some of them issues were, identified how to try and fix them, whether it is giving players more freedom to go and play and not be so structured in terms of like, you know, systems.

and where they've got to be on the pitch, because they do look like they're playing with a lot more freedom. You know, Sienza as well. It's shown flashes previously, but he's now a real prominent player in that attacking unit. So I think what you have to give credit to the manager for is understanding what wasn't going well, tweaking it, and obviously the players,

and with Bill have to take more responsibility for the lack of performance earlier, but obviously so does the manager. He's the man in charge. They made the decision at the moment. They're not looking back from it, are they? I've talked to you about XG before the XG was less than one

under the previous manager it's now over three and a half it's 3.65 or something last night now that is unbelievable that's creativity that's just jumped off the map it's gone from caution to absolute release and it doesn't just

it's not just the change of manager it can't just be the changing manager because they haven't changed the players I bet he's picking the same team on most of the occasion but you've mentioned two or three things and Adam Armstrong I mean that's where the 3.3

six five is coming from for me. Well, them to, them too, as far as a combination go, they're the most deadly out there, aren't they? As an Armstrong. Phil, what about when he starts dropping points? Because it will happen. You know, we talked about. That'll be the test, Adam.

Yeah, that's the thing. We don't know anything about Dundrecker. With the greatest respect to him, he's coming. He's the Southampton head coach. He's being awarded a, what is it, a one and a half year deal or two-year deal to be their boss. We haven't seen him lose.

We haven't seen them drop points. I am fascinated to see what happens. when he needs to make changes, when he needs to go to a plan B, when he needs to shuffle things around and alter things because it's just not going to plan. With all due respect, you go from the under-21s to the seniors. There's a massive difference in your whole mentality. You know, he's only 32-year-old.

So he's managing a group of players. Under-21s, under-23s, whatever you want to call it. You're in the productivity game. You're not in the winning game or losing or results. You're in the productivity, and you have to produce players for the first team. is now when the productivity he's gone from that to results and I think that change of mindset

completely and he will lose a couple of games guaranteed when it comes down to it he's going to have to rethink it you know you can't just go and blitz everybody in the championship you're talking about one of the most possibly one of the most competitive leaves

in the world and it's designed for to get you into the Premier League which is the Promise Land but I'm telling you it will come for sure and he's going to really be asked his own questions then Do Southampton get promoted for you this season, Joby? Listen, they're going to be in the playoffs for sure. And it's where they should, at the very least, be.

They've had a poor start to the season, of course. But just coming back to your point, you know, they did lose against Millwall, and we've seen these sort of interim periods when he was still in interim, sort of fizzle out after a defeat, and then it goes to two defeats, and then it's sort of back to where they were before. But the two results since that, you know, beating Birmingham, who have been doing well lately, and then West Brom, The one question maybe in the last few games is those goals conceded,

and I think they have to try and get the balance at some point over the course of the season. Can I say something controversial? And I'm going to stick this out there and I can step my neck on the line. They need a new goalkeeper. Listen, I think that is an issue. I think when you look at the sort of save percentages across the leagues, you know, and it had been an issue for Will still. I think he wrestled with that.

He went back to Alex McCarthy. I think that caused a bit of friction in the camp to say the least, because Gavin Bezunu would assume that he would be the number one. Had a little issue with Stevens as well, who's the club captain. So again, these are all things that everyone talks about tactics and philosophies. Management, and we talk about, I certainly talk about this a lot. It's a different thing altogether. How do you handle those senior players that aren't happy?

Can you continue to still have a positive impact in a group? And it's all part of getting a team to get promoted. It's not just what you do on the pitch, just the environment, the training ground, the mood around the place and clearly, for whatever reason, Will still didn't get that right, but at the moment, Tonda Eckhart is absolutely nailing it. Also in the championship for the second time this season,

Blackburn Rovers have had a home match abandoned due to the state of the Ewa Park pitch around the hour mark against Sheffield Wednesday, having played around 80 minutes against Ipswich in September. Both those games called off. The referees gave a 10-minute window to remove as much water as possible from the surface, We've spoken loads and loads in the past about Blackburn's problems behind the scenes.

I mean, look, you can't do anything for the fact that there's a river that runs alongside their stadium. And maybe it's a geographical issue, Joby, that's far beyond our reach. But it's problematic. This is really, really problematic. And you just wonder if it's a case of there needs to be more investment. We know there does need to be in general, but that's kind of key. Yeah, and I think you say, you know, you. can't do anything because there's a well we know there's a river next to it so that your investment

in that pitch has to be absolutely you know one of the priorities at that football club because they can't it's embarrassing as they should not be getting games when no other games are cancelled we get it you have these freak weather conditions that you know can affect you know pitches up and down the country but you look at that sort of time span when these games are happened no other games are getting cancelled in the same area so it is an issue at the club i feel sorry for the groundsman to be perfectly honest. You know, it was farcical, you know, seeing them on there with the sort of brushes. I don't even know what they were, but trying to sort of sweep as much sort of the wetness

off of the pitch, which was almost a impossible task, which clearly it was because it ends up getting abandoned again. And you've got other games to play. They've ended up obviously having to replay that match where they were in a really, really good position early in the season against it, which that's cost them some points, but they really, really need this season. And we don't know what's going to happen with this one. I think the fact that they were leading both

sort of compounds what is already a really bad situation. Valerian Ishmael, their manager, Phil, has said that he'd happily give up money from his transfer budget to go and improve things at the stadium. That's saying something. A club celebrating 150 years.

That's the ground they call. The house that Jack built, Jack Walker, of course, Walker Steerlin, who built that in the 90s. It is dated, though. It is dated. And you're seeing sort of the after effects. It's like anything, you can't not maintain something,

and prevention is often better than cure, and unfortunately they've had to find a cure twice this season when the pitch is flooded. And for a manager to come out and say, hey, take some of my budget, that's big. It is big. It is big. It's something that I'm, it makes you sit up and listen because when the manager says things like that,

he's not just seeing them for effect. The downside to the league that I'm in, and I'll take you down to National League, North, National League, South, whichever the case may be. The weather conditions are really kicking in, and one or two clubs are really struggling. There are three or four games behind us already. And you're already looking at the end of the season

at Saturday, Tuesday, Saturday games. Now, when you get that and you kick it into the Football League, you think that's beyond recognition. It's impossible. This club used to be in the Premier League. And it isn't. The weather conditions are really affecting everywhere, but teams like Blackburn,

there should be massive investment in the pitches. Massive investment. If they're spending fortunes to put quality players on the field of people, play, and that pitch or that surface is not conducive to good football, then they've only got themselves to blame. And I'm 100% behind what the manager is saying, take something with budget away and make sure that the games are on. And more importantly, that we can play on, play good football. Well, I think that's the problem, though, isn't it, Phil? And I think

when you listen to Blackburn Rovers fans, it's not just to do with the pitch. It is the lack of investment in the playing staff as well. And I think it just feels this is another episode of one of those clubs that basically just seems neglected. It seems to have owners who, you know, are very, very reluctant to invest money to take the club forward. They don't want to sell either? Well, this is the problem, though, because you end up with this then, don't you? Sort of like knocking around, eventually they're going to get dragged in.

You know, at a brilliant end to last season. But that expectation of keeping outperforming where the league every year, you know, teams are coming into it, they're looking up, they're trying to spend money, they're trying to stay in it. And actually, it's going to be a matter of time, in my opinion, before Blackburn get dragged down into a relegation battle that they can't get out of. Are they not in one this season? Do you know management? What's the first thing you do?

I'm saying, in Jobby, Maconoff, what do I do? I take them to the training ground. I show them the facilities. I show them the ground. That's the last place I take them to because it's the best place. It's the surface. It's the surrounding. We've won the Premier League title.

We've been, and you've got all that, and then you can't get a game on. It's just beyond recognition. a seals pitch at all. I love those stories of players being taken to alternative locations just to sign their contracts because clubs aren't proud of their facilities.

They used to be that famous one at Leicester at Filbert Street. You know he used to walk out the tunnel of the big stand, the carling stand. Opposite there was that tiny little stand. It was like a little little hutch and apparently Martin O'Neill used to walk signings out backwards just so that

they could see the new stand. But yeah the other ones weren't great I think someone else told me one I think it was Middlesbrough where they used to bring they set the players to the stadium before anywhere else because the training ground wasn't great

so yeah it'll be interesting to see what happens with Blackburn Rovers going forward and if there's anything to spend in January is Valerian Ishmael sort of crowdfunding for the pitch what are they going to be up to one club that won't be

crowdfunding are wrecksum they've made the headlines after Atletico Madrid's owners Apollo Sports Capital invested a minority stake in them thought to be less than 10% Ryan Reynolds and Rob McElhenney have said in a short statement the dream has always been to take this club to the Premier League

while staying true to the town growth like that takes world class partners who share our vision ambition and Apollo absolutely does we have discussed it briefly Joby a few times about how sort of the glass ceiling for Rob McElhenney and Ryan Reynolds

and I think it's really sort of prudent of them to go, yeah, we recognise it. Obviously, I think they're probably going to make a nice bit of change out of it as well. Good luck to them. They took a risk and they've ridden the wave of football. But this is a positive step for Exum in securing them as at least a championship club and potentially won their Premier League one. Yeah, I think it's another sign of their ambition,

which I think anyone around the Rexham story is in absolutely no doubt about whatsoever. And we talked about Blackburn, a lack of investment in a football club standing still and probably going backwards. This is the complete opposite of that. And just from a purely business perspective, to get it to that next level, you know, they've done such a good job, such a good job. And I know everyone talks about the Hollywood staff and all that, you know. But in terms of a football club, a community, you know, what they've brought to it has been nothing short of fantastic. Yes, they've spent money. They've spent it wisely.

And every time they've gone up, they've competed and gone beyond what was in. the league that was always going to be difficult at this level given what the competition is so you know i think it makes sense to me it's obviously a small stake but a state that they will obviously be able to get finance from and help the club kick on i think the fact you know they're sitting at the moment mid table you know and i think they've done probably i don't say better than i thought they would do but i think inside rexham it's like right now we've got here we've had a little look at it we've been competitive how do we take it to that next level and obviously by working with, again, company that has experience of that,

I think is a very, very sensible move from their part. Could I flip it on its head and ask you the question? I mean, I think it's a really, really interesting point because has it reached its ceiling, and therefore they've gone 10% with a global partner to try and burst the ceiling and go above again? Do you think they're capable of getting to the Premier League this year? No.

You don't? Because we've just been talking about Southampton and the real reason why Southampton is, because they've been there before. the facilities, the club, it's a massive club, et cetera, et cetera, and they've changed their manager at the rate time, and now all of a sudden they're pushing for the game at the playoffs and you knew when they'll get promoted this year.

So it's an automatic feel, but Wrexham's story is just phenomenal. And why are you saying no to the fact that they can't get to the Premier League? I just, I don't think they're quite there. They're caught. I think they've got a really good squad. I really like Phil Parkinson. I like the intensity with which they play. They don't care.

They're going to go there. they're going to try and sort of absolutely more show the teams. Do you think the two owners have gone, we're not quite there, we know we're not quite there, we're going to take 10% from this global partner to get us there. I think they're taking more than 10% in the sense of, I think they're there to take knowledge as well from Atlantic and Madrid's owners. How do we turn a small football club into a, you know, a behemoth? And we've done our bit by getting in incredible sponsorship deals.

TikTok, United Airlines, they've got themselves a really good, you know, based on a documentary, they've got, mate, they've maximised this brand. I'm telling you, if clubs could do what they've done, look, they've got their own cold brew, nitro coffee company, they're selling shirts left, right and centre, because people are seeing them on the documentary and going, yes, I have to be a Wrexon van. Obviously, they've got Paul, their Hollywood actors, mate, people are going to go and follow what they do. And in the grand scheme of things, the football's sort of like the last thing to it, really.

The football's just like, you know, secondary. one point I wanted to make though Phil and again you're flipping a question to me I'll flip one back to you have they shown owners and sort of like foreign owners actually how to do it how to do it properly

one million percent yes I think so they've committed though I've got to see the word commitment because I love that word in the game of football they've committed you see some horrendous examples of Sheffield Wednesday you know we can go on name names and teams etc etc but we've seen

some horrendous examples of people who think they can come into football and do it these are two guys they've not really they've played it down for the first three four years and they've got three four promotions over it you know it's crazy but it's brilliant the way they've done it and it's absolutely it's global

because everybody's interested in the story being a Welsh team in the English in the English leagues it's got fairy sale though it's got glamour it's got everything about it but the most important thing is the quality of the football and the quality of the manager

Phil Parkinson, it has to be said, is one of the best managers in the country at the moment because of what he's done over the last three or four years. But they've also shown patience Jobes in terms of when people have been on his back they've stuck by him and even

this season people were talking about how they want him out, they want to chop him and you know I interviewed him after they beat Norwich away and you should have seen his face. He was buzzing and you could tell there was a bit of relief there and he was just genuinely buzzing for the group and they play for him

it's not even like a case of our of course they're going to play for him because he's been there for a few years and he's established what it's all about and he's led this club on this magical journey but you could really see that the boys were there for him and they were drilling down and they were they were knuckling down into Norwich because they knew their gaffo's under pressure he deserves so much credit

chobes oh I think he actually goes under the radar for the job that he's done because people just assume you've got you know resources that maybe some of the other clubs haven't got but you still have to go and deliver that how many times do we see clubs getting taken over money getting thrown left right and center and it's not spent wisely or the manager doesn't go he has delivered season on season what the club wanted which was success it's to climb up the leagues the pace at which that they've done it has been absolutely incredible this was always going to be the challenge not just for the club but I think for Phil as well

to prove, I suppose, that he can take a club into this league and be competitive, which I think they have done quite clearly. So to have to deal with that pressure, because you know the minute it doesn't go right, for an extended period, whether that's a runner games, you know, whatever, they're going to be looking elsewhere. That is the nature. They're ruthless. They've done it with players.

And yes, again, you get all the nice stuff and, you know, you see all the video footage of ex-players, you know, still in vault. but once they get to a point with anyone there that they feel has served their purpose, they're gone. It's that simple. And it's like, right, who's the next person in to take us to the level above? And that applies to Phil, as it does to any of the players.

At the moment, he is proving that he is the right man for the job. Long may it continue for him because I think he's done a smashing job there. Spring Hill Suites, part of Marriott Bonvoy, the official hotel partner of U.S. soccer. The next chapter for the U.S. men's national team is about to unfold, and fans like you are part of the story. Make your travels unforgettable at Spring Hill Suites. Enjoy complimentary hot breakfast and spacious all-sweet accommodation for the whole team, with room for up to six guests. Big journeys start with the rights day.

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And we host the Women's Football podcast, Big Kick Energy. Each week we bring you the latest from the WSL and beyond. Whether you're a lifelong fan like me or a newer fan like me and have recently got swept up in the life. I and S's excitement. We've got everything you need to know about the women's game. And chance. We've got chance. Oh yes, we love a chant.

And finding ways to shoehorn in some truly obscure pop culture references. It's actually quite a silly podcast. Yeah, listen now on BBC Sound. Yeah, you should. Okay, cool. 72 plus the EFL podcast with Aaron Paul and Joby McEnuff. FA Cup second round weekend did not disappoint. The biggest story of the weekend, National League, Southside, Western Supermare,

make it into the pot for the first time in their 138 year history after knocking at Lyle Taylor's Chelmsford City. Great for the Western, not for our boy, Lyle Jobes. No, and again, I know he had his eyes on that top scorer prize, didn't he, in the FA Cup. And it was a big, big game for them, unfortunately, for him and the football club, and Caroline Barker, good friend of ours, not the result that they wanted. But obviously a team at that level who has gone through, So flying the flag for non-league,

which we love to see going into the next round, for sure. Magic of the Cup, very much alive, Philip. Macclesfield to host the Holders Crystal Palace in round three. Unreal. Yeah, it's Mr Rooney, I believe, is in charge of Matlesfield. They're there about a month ago. It's an astronaut turf pitch, by the way, and it's enormous. It's absolutely enormous.

You know, Job is when you go on a football pitch as a manager, you always pace from the edge of the penalty box of the touchline. And if you get past 14, you know you're on a big pitch. This is 16. This is unbelievable. So, parrots are going to go there.

If they go there, half strength or even full strength, I fully expect them to beat Macclesfield. But I tell you what, he's got them playing, he's really got them playing some good football, and it'll be a good game of football, no doubt about it,

but the football club itself is on the way up. It's on the move. We played them on a Tuesday night, wet and windy, to say the least. And there was about 3,000 at the game. It was brilliant. great turnout. So he's got a half a chance. He's got a half a chance. It'd be nice to see,

but Pallas being reigning holders. I didn't realize that. Of course I didn't. Just elsewhere in the draw, and Jobes, this week we've heard a lot about Exeter City, or not just this week, in fact, the past few weeks, about Exeter and their financial struggles. Now, I want to take you about 20 years. They played Manchester United in the FA Cup, bagging themselves a nil-0 draw, Old Trafford, with the club in real dire financial straits. they were then able to use that FA Cup prize money to pay off the receivers at that point and sort of paved the foundation for the club

to push on forward. It's amazing. Lightning does strike twice. This time they go to Manchester City and no doubt those gate receipts are going to be absolutely huge to the football club. Yeah and I think it just again reinforces how important this competition is for clubs lower down if you can do as well as they have done

and earn themselves, and it is earning by getting to this stage, you know, a real plumb tie against, you know, what has been the best team in England over the last however many years. So, you know, I think for me, as someone who is a definitely romantic when it comes to the FA Cup, and I've enjoyed playing in these games myself and certainly watching them over the years, it's a great one, and listen, the experience for the players and the staff will be on the pitch, but clearly that has a huge financial positive benefit for everyone around it as well. So it's brilliant.

Absolutely. Anyone else in the club you're looking out for, boys? Any other fixtures of the third round? A special weekend. Sun underweight, Evan. That was one for me. But Barns has got a great road, didn't it? Barnsley, at Liverpool.

That's a hell of a draw for them. Yeah, absolutely. Going to be. Luke Garard wasn't too happy with the draw. I don't think, bless him. He's doing really well with Boreham Wood. Had a really good win, win three nil, and probably wasn't the big fish

that they wanted to pull out, was it? Chart on Chelsea, for me. London Derby, it's going to be great. Can't wait for that. Let's go straight to our Ultimate 11. Last week we started looking, Phil, you're going to love this, at our EFL Hard Man 11 to compete

with our Ultimate 11. Currently, we have got, it's more of a squad right now. We're kind of doing trials. Ingold, Paddy Kenny, Barry Fuller, Chris Morgan, Paul Robinson, and Kevin Muscat. Kevin McDonald,

in midfield Jonathan Hogg and Michael Brown and up top a smorgas border strikers John Akinday Bayouac in Fenwa Lucas Yukovitz

Darius Henderson Steve Morrison and Nicola Ziggich Philip what do you think about that I mean there are some really good suggestions coming in on the messages

going to read those what do you think of the old Hardman 11 by the way I've got to make this abundantly clear if you mention and Ian Ashby, again, you're done.

We're done. Joby, do you agree? You're done, you're out, I love to. I'd love to I'd love to. I'd love to. They're going to put their head in. They're going to put their head in. They're going to put their bodies on the line for you. It's brilliant. But I had one that I had it Blackpool

back in a day. Andy Morrison, eventually played Man City, etc., etc. Jop Morrison, one of the hardest players. Hardest players you'll ever come across. Centre half or centre in midfield, Andy Morrison. And then I've got to think. somebody in that started his career Manly United. You're looking

for a hard man 11, manly United. Lucas Neil, he was a tough guy by the the way. And he started off with Millwall didn't he? I know he made his way up to the higher echelons but he'd definitely play in the championship with Millwall, didn't he? So Lucas Neil and John Morrison were two I was going to

suggest. I want to add potentially to our roster. I want to add Big KP. Kevin, Preston, okay. I'm in with that. I wouldn't mess around with him, would you? That's a good couple that, by the way. I mean, was Paddy Kenney in for his hard, being a hard man? Sheffield United 2005, you could have the entire just sort of squad in there if you wanted. Yeah, no.

Bow, Myhill, Big Bowers. Yeah, old Glenn. Well, that was his name, wasn't it, Glynn? No. Glynn? That was his real name, wasn't it, Bowers? Was it? Yeah.

He was your keeper, you signed him. His real name was Glynn. Who are you talking about there? Myield? Yeah. Bowers, Mike. Phone Boaz Myhill. now. I dare you. Phone him now

and go, ask him, just say it's brownie. I can't. Oh, he's good. I was going to say, phone him now. Ask him. Is your real name, Glyn? I'm going to. I'll guarantee you, I'll do it. And next day I'll come on the show, I'll not mention the word boas. That is amazing.

Where does Boas comes from? I don't know, his parents just called him Boers. Let's get a couple of suggestions in. Phil, you're going to have to ascertain alongside Job, whether we chuck these lot into our squad. Liam in Rotherham said, what about Guy Branson? You don't get a nickname like Psycho for nothing.

Guy Branson. Absolutely. He would have to be somewhere near 100%. And by the way, I wouldn't have one on the bench because he would be battering you if you're on the bench. Yeah. So he's got to be playing on nowhere near the squad. He looked tough as well, didn't he?

Yeah. He looked apart, correct. I think he just had to be back then, though, didn't you feel? It has changed, isn't it? It has a time. It's like Chunky Gorky was, Toby. It's like Chunky Gorky. You had to be, you had to look apart.

Absolutely. Absolutely. Does he get into the squad? Ahead of whom we're going to chuck out? I mean, I wouldn't chuck anyone out of this stage. We can whittle it down. We're just assembling a squad at the moment. Right. Okay, so how many you got on a squad?

You've got four, eight, two. You've got six strikers as well, aren't you? So we've got 15, 16 in the squad at the moment. Yeah, but Guy Branson is set off. You've got to put Branson in there. You've got to put, there's another GB, you know. What about you? Well, I was just about to say, we've had a messaging

from Tommy in Southport saying, May I suggest the barrel-chested Gary Brabbing for the Hard Man 11. No messing around with him in set in midfield. Surely he can push most of the current midfield out literally. What do you reckon, Philip? He would literally push him out. You're not wrong there, by the way. Kevin McDonald, you've got you, Jonathan Hogg.

Did you say Michael Tongue? Or do you say Michael Brown? Brownie. They got rid of Tongue last week. Tongue, lad. Ah, right, okay. So Brownie out of them three, who would you put Brabbing instead of? I mean, again, it's the squad.

including him. Yes, bang him in. Get him in. Gary Brabbing, right in midfield, the big boy, he's a unit as well. Absolutely unit of a unit.

He's an agent. That was Guy Branson's an agent. That was Branson. Sorry, that was Gene. Guy. How is this hard man 11, Joe?

You're going to go on against sort of like our EFL Ultimate 11? Oh, it depends on the pitch, doesn't it, mate? I think it's an old school bit of mudd flying about a cold Tuesday night somewhere.

It's a blackbird. We'll play. We'll play the away leg at Stoke. Yeah. Play the way leg at Stoke and play the home leg at the den. Yeah, oh, listen, mate, then I've got to say I'd probably go with the hard. I wouldn't want to play against the hard man. But if you ask me, who would you rather play against?

And I'd probably go with our all-time 11 rather than the hard man 11. Do you know what? You could have like, play at Blackburn with the pitch like, you know, saturated. That'd be fun. That'd be fun to all. Beautiful. Let's talk League 2, which continues to, of course, be unbrown. predictable. I mean, it really is. It really is Mario Kart, isn't it, already? And I always use that analogy, but that's the best way to describe it. Walsall currently leading the way after wins in the Cup and the Football League trophy. They beat Stevenage last week. And you know what, Jobs? We haven't really touched on it. Matt Sadler, just reinvigorating them after the absolute disappointment and the implosion of last season. And it's an admirable job he's done.

Yeah, fantastic. Obviously, a lot of eyes on him and the club this season, given what happened last year. And again, you know, after having a really, really good start, they did have a little bit of a run that certainly maybe a few people start questioning. You know, I don't know, there's a mixture of games there with, you know, trophy games. But it wasn't the best of runs, but they seem to have come out that now and they've picked up some really good wins. Obviously, that one in the FA cut. The other day, Stevenage away, which, again, in the... a trophy and then beating Bromley who have been brilliant of late you know i think for them that sort of confidence and being able to give everybody minutes i think's really really important as well

because he had to rebuild the squad in the summer and again i think to see where they are at this moment in time you know i'm really really pleased for him shrewsbury down i'm i'm genuinely worried for i'm bricking it for bristol rovers and our at our mate over there darrell clark because it is um it's a very bad situation where is it eight on the bounce now they lost Yeah, well, I think the type of defeat, I think that's the thing, isn't it? That anyone is bad when you're in a run like they were. They've now equaled the worst ever run at the football club in the league, nine straight to five, and four nil away to Barnett.

I mean, again, if you're looking at that from a Bristol Rovers perspective, two-nill down in the first half, I mean, where do you go from there? They're going to concede another couple in the second half. And all I can say is in terms of the hierarchy there, they are giving him the most opportunity to try and turn it around but you have to start asking questions when you're getting not just the number of defeats but the nature of it now.

I can imagine, Phil, being down the bottom of league at Christmas is like the most miserable thing. You don't get no turkey, you don't get no presents. You're scrapping. You're not getting presents, that's for sure. I've looked at that division. You're talking about the top 14 teams are separated by eight points

and then the next nine or ten are separated by eight. It's crazy, but you could go on a run over December or January and pull yourself right out of it and go into the playoffs. That's how tight it is. But are you looking at, I think the shot result last night? For me, it was Swindon getting beat at home off Cheltenham, having beaten Boughton Wonders 4-0 in the Cup. And I'm looking at Swindonan.

The people talking around here, not far from here. They're really, really high hopes. They think Ollie's doing them. magnificent job and the team's playing some wonderful football as well but I go back

to Matt Sadele Walsall from what he did last year you know when you go you know you hear him scare him

you pull away by 10 points 12 points whatever it was he was way ahead and then to miss out for him to do what he's doing

this year I think it's admirable really is admirable and I think for the for the board to be sticking by him amidst you know

a collapse it can be said anything nothing short and a collapse last year for them to be top of the league now. I don't think they've got that kind of

nervousness about them. They seem to have a solidarity about them, you know? It's that close, it's that tight. I think they're going into every game fully prepared instead of it last year was maybe weren't fully prepared because of a 10 and 12 points clear. But now they seem to be focused. I think we'll also go

the journey this year. Yeah, I'm fully with you. It's just to me interesting to see who goes with them, Phil, on that journey. Up into League 1. Let's push on. and finish with this. 72 plus, 72 minus on the football daily.

Jobes, it's time for your best and worst moments of the week. What do you got for us? Well, I'm going to kick off with my 72 plus, and it's going to be Josh Time and a really good week for Swansea and their new boss. Two wins, much needed. You will not see better technique. What a strike this was fell to him,

just outside the box, on his left foot, full volley caught it absolutely perfectly into the top bin an absolute stunner let's be a vinyat over the head of cabango comes back out to tyman oh what the goal that is stunning unbelievable timean two nil and this crowd finally has something to cheer they'll be mindful of what happened last week but it's swansea city to oxford united nil what a volley Do you ever, Joby, get that feeling where you're like, oh, pick out a random player in your head, and I wonder where they are.

And have I updated my reference library, my brain as to where they are? And I had that with Josh time the other day. Oh, really? Yeah. Well, he's just reminded you where he is. He has. I stick him on in the top bit, haven't he? Thank you, Josh.

Love your work. You're minus Jobes. Yeah, poor old Kai Jennings, Sutton United, crazy game against Shrews. a game that had it all, three red cards, a last minute equalizer from Kavia, which was an absolute screamer, and Jennings, who had actually earlier scored direct from a corner, probably felt he's going to be the hero, but a real horror moment trying to play out in the second minute of extra time, gives the ball away in the penalty area, John Marquis then

just taps it into an empty net. Go on then, let's hear it. and Kai Jennings has now put it on a plate for John Marquis. What a stunning and unexpected twist right at the start of extra time. Yeah, and you have to feel for Kai Jennings here because he's been so good tonight. Do you see that the other goal though, Joby? It's good driving for the corner. Yeah, exactly. And it's crazy, that's the game, isn't it?

You probably think at a point that that's going to potentially be the winning goal because they were 1-0-5. And then it was actually involved in one of the red cards as well, player gets sent off and then that he just feels for him such a cool way for him to finish his game I suppose and for something to lose

as they say Phil that's life football coming back to bite you in the backside Philip Worry this weekend what's going on we've got Scunthorpe we've got an FAA trophy game

so we're at Scunny eat and then we've got South Shields rearranged on Tuesday so it's going to be a tough week have you ever been to Scunthorpe Yeah, many, many things, many things. That's a shame. Do you know what? There's a song by Tiny Temper.

Do you ever pass out, Joby? And I would have loved it. And I would have set you a challenge, Phil, to say in your pre-match briefing, I've been Southampton but I've never been to Scunthorpe. Because that's a line from the song. Is it? I've been to Southampton but never been to Scunthorpe. Please do it.

I'm begging you, please do it. I'm begging you to go, I've been Southampton, but I've never been to Scunthorpe. Yeah, and it's tiny temper. Tiny temper does it in this song called Pass Out, yeah? Right, okay. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I've been to Southampton, but I've never been to... Why am I doing it?

You would have heard that in a changing room at some point, Phil. There's absolutely no doubt about it. That would have been on the playlist. Do you have pre-match media duties, Phil? Yeah, we do quite a bit, huh? Yeah, so could you drop that in, potentially as a little challenge? I will throw that in, no problem. Just say it casually, say nonchalant.

Just go... A pass-out. I'm after a pass-out. Then if you could add afterwards, I've never got to fly on a concord. Just do it. Just do it, just do it naturally. I'm happy to supply you the lyrics.

But if you could say, I've been Southampton, but I've never been to Scunthorpe. Because you are a singer, Philip. You've got a good voice. That's a rapper, though, isn't it? I know, I heard to rapper, but you can do it. Joe, you encourage him.

Don't let it believe it all with me. No, he's got that. 100%. I mean, I, have been to Scumford and Southampton but I unfortunately never did get to fly on a concord so yeah Phil go for it mate I think the boys will be absolutely

buzzing Phil Phil the start of it could you say they say hello they say Ola and they say bonjour mate do you know the whole say hello they say hello they see Ola I went to uni in the 2010s everyone knows that song that was a staple of a night

come on pass that 20thember everyone knows it no it's a tiny temper the way he says yeah as well is very, very entertaining. What I would love is if you win the game and, you know, they press office answers, ask you a question. Joby, how does he do it?

Yeah. Yeah, like that. You can go, yeah. But, Philip, could you do what I've been Southampton, but I've never been to Scunthorpe? I will throw that in, guaranteed. Do you promise? Do you want it recorded?

Have you won at Scunthorpe before, Phil. we will take the recording and we will pop it in and then I've got to say yeah could he remix it he could he remix and say I've won at Southampton and now I've won at Scunford I'm about that Phil I promise you

this would be great for your P-R great great for you you promise me Phil next year when you're getting a championship job next year yeah you got AP it's all because I did

tiny temper that is it for this episode of 72 plus up next Steve Crosman will be here with the Champions League debrief

as for us here on 72 plus back next week catch you then Phil enjoy Scunthor thank you very much I've been

Southampton but I've never beat a skuntop brilliant this winter cricket's oldest rivalry is re-ignited. England and Australia do battle to compete for the Ashes.

Here live ball-by-ball commentary on Fife Sports Extra and get analysis and reaction of every day's play with the Test Match Special podcast. The Stamps out of the ground. Test match special at the Ashes. Listen on BBC Sounds. Football Daily is sponsored by Spring Hill Suites, part of Marriott Bonvoy, the official hotel partner of U.S. soccer. The next chapter for the U.S. men's national team is about to unfold, and fans like you are part of the story. Make your travels unforgettable at Spring Hill Suites. Enjoy complimentary hot breakfast and spacious all-sweet accommodation for the whole team, with room for up to six guests.

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